1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. Hey, gang, 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: just a reminder that I have a massive false speaking 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: tour approaching. I will very soon be making stops in Sacramento, 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: San Diego, Tucson, and Scottsdale. Then in October, I've got 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: stops in Texas, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin and more. 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: Get all the details and tickets at Amy dash Brunei 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: dot net. I hope to see you out there, my 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: spooky friends. Waterloo, Iowa, January Dear sirs, I am writing 10 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: you in regard to a rumor going around that my 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: five sons were killed in action in November. A mother 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: from here came and told me that she got a 13 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: letter from her son and he heard my five sons 14 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: were killed. It is all over town now, and I 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: am so worried. My five sons joined the Navy together 16 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: a year ago January third, nineteen forty two. They are 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: on the cruiser U S. S Juno. The last I 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: heard from them was November eighth. That is, it was 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: dated November eighth, U S. Navy. Their names are George T. Francis, 20 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Henry Joseph E. Madison A. And Albert L. If it 21 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: is so, please let me know the truth. I am 22 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: to christen the U. S. S. Twassah February twelfth, at Portland, Oregon. 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: If anything has happened to my five sons, I will 24 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: still christen the ship, as it was their wish that 25 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: I do so. I hated to bother you, but it 26 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: has worried me so that I wanted to know if 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: it was true. So please tell me. It was hard 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: to give five sons all at once to the Navy, 29 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: but I am proud of my boys that they can 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: serve and help protect their country. George and Francis served 31 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: four years on the U S. S. Holvey, and I 32 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: had the pleasure to go aboard their ship in nineteen 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: thirty seven. I am so happy the Navy has bestowed 34 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: the honor on me to christen the U. S. S. Twassa. 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: My husband and daughter are going to Portland with me. 36 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: I remain sincerely Mrs Elita Sullivan, Adams Street, Waterloo, Iowa. 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: My dear mister and Mrs Sullivan, the knowledge that your 38 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: five gallant sons are missing in action against the enemy 39 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: inspires me to write you this personal message. I realize 40 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: full well there is little I can say to assuase 41 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: your grief. As Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: I want you to know that the entire nation shares 43 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: in your sorrow. I offer you the condolences and gratitude 44 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: of our country. We who remain to carry on the 45 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: fight must maintain spirit in the knowledge that such sacrifice 46 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: is not in vain. The Navy Department has informed me 47 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: of the express desire of your sons George Thomas, Francis, 48 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: Henry Joseph, Eugene, Madison, Abel and Albert Leo to serve 49 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: in the same ship. I am sure that we all 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: take heart in the knowledge that they fought side by side. 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: As one of your sons wrote, we will make a 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: team together that can't be beat. It is this spirit which, 53 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: in the end must triumph. Last March, you, Mrs Sullivan, 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: were designated to sponsor a ship of the Navy in 55 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: recognition of your patriotism and that of your sons. I 56 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: understand that you are now even more determined to carry 57 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: on his sponsor. This evidence of unselfishness and of courage 58 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: serves as a real inspiration for me, as I am 59 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: sure it will for all Americans. Such acts of faith 60 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: and fortitude in the face of tragedy convinced me of 61 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: the indomitable spirit and will of our people. I send 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: you my deepest sympathy in your hour of trial, and 63 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: pray that in Almighty God you will find the comfort 64 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: and help that only He can bring. Very sincerely, yours, 65 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to Haunted Road. 66 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: In the Naval Park in Buffalo, New York, three majestic 67 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: ships float quietly in the water, part of a large 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: scale tribute to the United States military and the sacrifices 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: made by soldiers who were wounded or killed in the 70 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: name of freedom. Tens of thousands of people tore the 71 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: ships every year, exploring the corridors where sailors walked, the 72 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: bunks where they slept, the control rooms where they operated 73 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: the ships, and the decks where they stood and watched 74 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: for approaching ships, ready for the battles that lay ahead. 75 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: All three of the boats, the U. S S. Croker, 76 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: the U. S S. Little Rock, and the U S 77 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: S The Sullivans, were decommissioned decades ago and are no 78 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: longer in use by the Navy, but many people believe 79 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: that the sailors who once manned those ships never left. 80 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: I witness account detail hearing phantom footsteps and mysterious whispers, 81 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: objects flying across the room, and blurred faces and photos. 82 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: Some people report seeing full body apparitions in places where 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 1: there are no other living people, including the burned face 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: and torso of a man who died tragically in a bombing, 85 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: the last to parish of five brothers who were all 86 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: killed in the attack. The second largest city in New York, Buffalo, 87 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: sits on the shores of Lake Erie, by the origin 88 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: of the Niagara River. Today, Buffalo, also known as the 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: Queen City, is mostly known for two things. It's intense 90 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: snowy winters. The city gets eighty five inches of snow 91 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: a year, more than three times the national average. And 92 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: it's intense spicy sauce that has become so popular it's 93 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: served all over the country. But once, the city of 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: more than two hundred fifty thousand was a booming industrial 95 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: town which experienced the same economic downturn as many Rust 96 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: Belt cities that lost manufacturing jobs to corporations moving their 97 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: plants overseas. Though a or a decade long revitalization effort, 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: Buffalo is currently experiencing an economic turnaround and population growth. 99 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: Planning began in nineteen seventy six for what would be 100 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: the Buffalo and Erie County Naval and Military Park. It 101 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: opened in nineteen seventy nine as the largest inland attraction 102 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: of its kind in the country. The waterfront park has 103 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: three large tourable ships. The U. S S. Little Rock 104 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: is a guided missile cruiser, the U S. S. The 105 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan's is a Fletcher class destroyer, and the U. S S. 106 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: Croker is a submarine. In addition, the park features a 107 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: garden of war memorials, a museum of military history, and 108 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: several other exhibits, including PTF seventeen, a fast patrol boat 109 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: from the Nasty class that was used in Vietnam, plus planes, tanks, 110 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: and a helicopter. It brings in more than seventy thousand 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: visitors annually. The largest of the three tourable ships at 112 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: Buffalo Naval Park is the U. S S. Little Rock, which, 113 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: according to the history of the park, is a guided 114 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: missile cruiser. The only surviving vessel from the Cleveland Glass 115 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: of light cruisers in World War Two. The ship is 116 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: six hundred ten feet long and housed eleven hundred enlisted 117 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: men at a time, in addition to a hundred fifty 118 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: officers and a hundred fifty marines. Originally built as a 119 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: gun cruiser, the U s S. Little Rock is unusual 120 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: because it has two bridges as well as admiral's quarters. 121 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: Designed for a Navy admiral to stay in Built between 122 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: nineteen forty three and nineteen forty four and commissioned in 123 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, the cruiser was too late to see 124 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: action during World War Two, but still sailed before being 125 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: decommissioned in nineteen forty nine. During that time, the ship 126 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: saw its first major accident. On October thirty first, nineteen 127 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: forty seven, a sailor named Donald H. Butler died when 128 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: he was crushed between the ship and its booy chain. 129 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: After she was decommissioned, the USS Little Rock underwent a 130 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: major remodeling starting in nineteen fifty seven, becoming a Galveston 131 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: class guided missile cruiser in nineteen sixty. As the park's 132 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: history describes her work, she became a Cold War flagship 133 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: of the second Fleet and the sixth Fleet. She patrolled 134 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: the Atlantic from the Arctic Circle to South America and 135 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: was a fixture in the Mediterranean Sea. She was a 136 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: show of force during the turbulent nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. 137 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: In July nineteen sixty two, a sailor named Richard Smith 138 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: died of injuries received in the Missile House Magazine from 139 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: a high pressure hydraulic line failure. A few years later, 140 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, the U S. S. Little Rock 141 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: assisted the U S. S. Liberty when that ship was 142 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: attacked by Israeli ships and aircraft. She aided in evacuating 143 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: the wounded and assisted the Liberty with damage control efforts. 144 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: Eight wounded men were treated in the ship's infirmary. In 145 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, the U. S. S. Little Rock was 146 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: the only foreign warship in the official flotilla at the 147 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: reopening of the Suez Canal. The next year, she helped 148 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: to evacuate civilians from Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War. 149 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: That was her last major mission. The U S. S. 150 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: Little Rock was decommissioned in nineteen seventy six and donated 151 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: to the Buffalo Naval Park in nineteen seventy seven. Today, 152 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: spaces aboard the ship, such as the Admiral's quarters, fantail, 153 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: and forecastle, can be rented for events like parties and weddings, 154 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: and people can arrange to stay overnight in original enlisted 155 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: sleeping compartments. The second tourable boat at the Buffalo Naval 156 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: Park is the USS Croker, a three hundred eleven foot 157 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: long submarine that is one of seventy seven Gaeto class 158 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: submarines ever constructed. Eighty one sailors served on board the boat, 159 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: which the park describes as part of the most lethal 160 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: submarine class of World War Two. Commissioned in nineteen forty four, 161 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: the USS Croker conducted six war patrols in the Pacific theater, 162 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: sinking eleven Japanese vessels, four of which were capital or 163 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: military vessels, and seven auxiliary or support vessels. Its first 164 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: successful torpedo strike was just seven days into its first patrol. 165 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: After World War Two, she was converted to a hunter 166 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: killer submarine with added sonar, radar and quieting capabilities to combat. 167 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: After World War Two, she was converted to a hunter 168 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: killer submarine with added sonar, radar and quieting capability to 169 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: combat the Russian threat during the Cold War, but was 170 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: soon outdated with the development of nuclear technologies. The U 171 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: S S Croaker was decommissioned in nineteen seventy one and 172 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: arrived at the Buffalo Naval Park in nineteen eighty eight. 173 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: All three ships have reports of unexplained phenomena, but by 174 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: far the ship with the most spookiness attached to it 175 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: is the U. S. S. The Sullivan's a Fletcher class destroyer, 176 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: the largest and most important class of US destroyers used 177 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: in World War Two. The boat, three hundred seventy six 178 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: ft long, housed three hundred ten soldiers. She has green 179 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: shamrocks painted on her main deck and forward smokestack in 180 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: tribute to the Irish American family. The boat is named 181 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: after the U. S. S. The Sullivan's is named after 182 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: five brothers who served on a similar ship in World 183 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: War Two. The U S S. Juno, George Francis Madison, 184 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: Joseph and Albert Sullivan were brothers from Waterloo, Iowa, who 185 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: had asked to serve together on the same vessel. According 186 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: to All Hands, the magazine of the U. S. Navy, 187 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: the tragic story of the Sullivan brothers was the greatest 188 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: military loss by any one American family during World War Two. 189 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: On November thirteenth, ninety two, their ship, the USS Juno, 190 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: was torpedoed by Japanese forces during the Battle of Guadalcanal. 191 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Hit by a torpedo for the second time in less 192 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: than twelve hours, the ship sank in about twenty seconds. 193 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: While only ten of the roughly seven hundred sailors aboard lived, 194 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: many more of them survived. The initial sinking estimates put 195 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: the number of survivors in the water anywhere from one 196 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: hundred to two hundred men, but they were left behind 197 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: by the two American ships nearby. Those boats fled without 198 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: searching for survivors, assuming that no one could be left 199 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: alive and fearful of future attacks. Almost all of the 200 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: men who hit the water eventually died, primarily from hypernatremia 201 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: caused by drinking seawater and from shark attacks. Among the 202 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: survivors was George Sullivan, the eldest brother, who survived on 203 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: a raft for several days. Another man, Allan Heind, shared 204 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: that raft with Sullivan and was rescued after nine days 205 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: at sea. According to an article published by the National 206 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: World War Two Museum, Hein recalled how he shared a 207 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: raft with the eldest Sullivan brother, George, who was desperately 208 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: calling out for his deceased kin and stricken by inconsolable 209 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: grief and slowly losing his mind due to lack of 210 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: water and shock. Four days after Juno sank, George stripped 211 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: off all his clothes, declared to Hind that he was 212 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: going below to take a bath, slipped off the raft 213 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: and swam away. Hind watched as George swam and suddenly disappeared, 214 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: another victim of the sharks. According to Dan Kerzman's account 215 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: of the sinking, left to die, George initially swam from 216 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: raft to raft, using toilet paper to wipe off the 217 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: men's oil blackened faces, to see if they were his brothers. 218 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: Some survivors would later say that they believed either Albert 219 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: or Joseph had survived the initials sinking, only to perish 220 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: in the water. George had apparently told his mother, Alida Sullivan, 221 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: that if they went down, they would all go out together, 222 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: a statement which sadly came true in November nineteen forty two. 223 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: The family was not officially notified of their deaths until 224 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: January eleventh, ninety three due to military secrecy, although according 225 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: to a history of Elita Sullivan, one of the survivors 226 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: had already written to their mother that I am afraid 227 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: all hope is gone for your boys. After the victory 228 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: at Guadalcanal was secured, the Navy acknowledged that the Juno 229 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: had gone down, but the true horror of the disaster 230 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: wasn't revealed until after the war was over, when survivors 231 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: shared their stories. After the death of the Sullivan brothers, 232 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: their only remaining sibling, sister Genevieve, joined the Waves women 233 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: accepted for Volunteer Emergency Services, a unit of the Navy. 234 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three. The Sullivan Brothers became national icons, 235 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: with recruitment posters of their five smiling faces aboard Juno 236 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: on her commissioning day over the slogan they Did Their Part, 237 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: distributed nationwide that same year, then be dedicated the U. 238 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: S S the Sullivan's, the first ship ever commissioned that 239 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: honored more than one single person. The boat was launched 240 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: on September thirtieth, nineteen forty three, with the brother's mother, Alita, 241 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: christening the ship. A film version of their story the 242 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: fighting Sullivan's was released in nineteen forty four. The movie 243 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: ends with a scene of Alita christening the U. S. S. 244 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: The Sullivan's and saying to her husband, tom our boys 245 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: are afloat again. The USS the Sullivan saw action in 246 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: the Pacific Theater, shooting down eight Japanese planes bombarding Iwo, Jima, 247 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: and Okinawa, as well as rescuing American pilots and crew 248 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: from burning her sinking vessels. She also saw action during 249 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: the Korean War and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and was 250 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: used as a training ship for the sixth Fleet after 251 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: the Korean War. The U. S. S. The Sullivan's was 252 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: decommissioned in nineteen sixty five and donated to the Buffalo 253 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: Naval Park in nineteen seventy seven. With all of that 254 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: wartime service and tragic history attached to the ships, it's 255 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: no wonder there are so many accounts of un usual 256 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: phenomena in Buffalo Naval Park, but at the park those 257 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: phenomena are largely considered a normal part of operations. John Browning, 258 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: the superintendent of Buffalo Naval Parks, set on a local 259 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: newscast that he wasn't scared of the hauntings. It's just 260 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: former crew members. We're all shipmates. They're going about their business. 261 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm going about mine. They leave me alone, I leave 262 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: them alone. That's the way I look at it. People 263 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: who visit the U. S. S. Little Rock have said 264 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: they've heard phantom footsteps and mysterious whispers aboard the ship. 265 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: A water tap and a sink is said to turn 266 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: itself on, and people have reported seeing shadow figures in 267 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: full bodied apparitions, including a figure dressed in an admiral's 268 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: uniform who is said to walk the deck. The ghosts 269 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: of two sailors are believed to haunt the USS Little Rock. 270 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: One is said to be lonely and often follows female 271 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: visitors around the ship, and the other one likes to 272 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: play tricks on guests. People also believe there is a 273 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: spectral security guard aboard. According to Haunted houses dot Com, 274 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: people who are within earshot but not in the same 275 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,359 Speaker 1: room as their belongings have heard our bags being unzipped, 276 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: someone rummaging around in their bags, and then zipped again. 277 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: While some claim that these phantoms are due to injured 278 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: sailors from the U S. S. Liberty dying aboard the ship, 279 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: the U. S. S. Little Rock took only eight of 280 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: the walking wounded, and it doesn't appear that any of 281 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: them died. Aboard the U. S. S. Croker, shadow figures 282 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: have been reported, and female visitors report being touched by 283 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: unseen hands, especially in the submarines bunk rooms. Visitors have 284 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: heard instruments playing in radio transmissions, as well as footsteps 285 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: and disembodied voices, as Haunted Houses dot Com describes them. 286 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: The disembodied voices maybe the spectral crew still serving their country. 287 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: One male spirit is very clear with his voice and 288 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: interacts with the living like the phantom security guard aboard 289 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: the U. S. S. Little Rock and unseen Force also 290 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: zips and unzips bags aboard the U. S. S. Croker, 291 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: enforcing the submarines strict rules against contraband even in death. 292 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: Aboard the U. S. S. Croker is a ghost named 293 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: John who is an angry spirit who pulls people's hair 294 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,119 Speaker 1: and breathes down next according to those who have experienced 295 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: the phenomena. According to Haunted Rooms dot Com, he sometimes 296 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: even blocks passageways and refuses to let people pass. Stomping 297 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: sounds on the deck, as well as spectral growls have 298 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: been attributed to John. Many believe that he was a 299 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: sailor who died while serving on the U. S. S. Croker, 300 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: and who resents non Navy people coming aboard his submarine. 301 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: The most haunted of the three by far, though, is 302 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: the U. S S. The Sullivan's. According to Michael Swain's 303 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: Haunted World War Two, paranormal reports aboard the U. S. S. 304 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: The Sullivan's started soon after the ship was decommissioned. As 305 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: he wrote, one of the first documented supernatural reports circulated 306 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: soon after the ship was retired in nineteen sixty nine. 307 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: According to one account, workers saw a heavy wrench levitate 308 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: off a table and sail across the room. George Sullivan, 309 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: the eldest brother and the one who survived the longest 310 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: after the U. S. S. Juno Sank, is said to 311 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: haunt his namesake boat, searching for his four brothers. According 312 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: to Haunted Buffalo, it is also said that when you 313 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: attempt to photograph the Museum of the Sullivan Boys, George 314 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: will not come out in the photo. It's said that 315 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: if your camera batteries don't die before you can take 316 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: the shot, a mysterious mist will cover his face. Journalist 317 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: Phil Nye wrote an article on the Haunted Battleships of 318 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: Buffalo saying, one tour guide reported being below decks and 319 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,239 Speaker 1: having a porso with a burned, disfigured face approach him 320 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: at a fast rate of speed. The figure was floating 321 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: above the ground, and the employee believed it to be 322 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: the ghost of George Sullivan. It's also thought that his 323 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: brothers sometimes join him. Some accounts describe five luminous forms 324 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: in passageways. Moaning, footsteps, and knocking have been heard aboard 325 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: the ship at night, and guards work in the night 326 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: shift have also reported hearing a voice that says, hey you. 327 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: According to Haunted World War two, other employees say the 328 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: ghosts on the U s as the Sullivan's, who many 329 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: presume are one or all of the Sullivan's, can get physical. 330 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: One worker woke up on the hard deck of the ship. 331 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: It's certainly not a place to sneak a nap during 332 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: his shift. He had no idea how he got there 333 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: and believed some mysterious and invisible force knocked him unconscious. 334 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes instruments aboard the ship continue to operate even when 335 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: the power has been shut off. Haunted World War two 336 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: describe the account of one staff member, Eddie Kirkwood. He 337 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: claimed that during a party on board the ship, the 338 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: guests began to thank him for putting on a little 339 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: bit of an extra show for them. Kirkwood was confused. 340 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: He had no idea what they were talking about, but 341 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: he played along. They then pointed to a spinning radar dish. 342 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: It made for a pretty cool party effect, they all agreed. Kirkwood, however, 343 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: didn't consider this naval version of a spinning disco ball 344 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: entertainment at all. He knew that he had turned off 345 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: the circuit breaker that killed the power to the radar. 346 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: An elderly couple on a tour once praised the helpfulness 347 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: of an officer who gave them directions, only to be 348 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: told no officer was on board the ship that day. 349 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: According to Haunted Buffalo, a group of girl scouts staying 350 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: overnight on the ship also woke to find that all 351 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: pictures in the ship's museum had fallen to the ground. 352 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: Probably not what they signed up for With all those stories, 353 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: we should probably talk to someone in the know at 354 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: the Buffalo Naval Park. Up next, I've got Shane Stevenson 355 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: joining us. He is the director of museum collections at 356 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: the park, and he's no stranger to the paranormal reports 357 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: there that's coming up after the break. All right, So 358 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: now I am joined by Shane Stevenson, who is the 359 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: director of museum Collections at the Buffalo Naval Park. So 360 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me, Shane. I super appreciate it. Oh, 361 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: you're very welcome. Amy happy to be here. So before 362 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: we get started, I'm just dying to know because I 363 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: watched this in the news over the last few months, 364 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: what is happening with the U s s the Sullivan's, 365 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: Like I saw she was taking on water. The pictures 366 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: looked really scary, So what's the status there. The pictures 367 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: didn't make it scary, but the actual event made it scary. 368 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: So yes, it was all in all a really trying 369 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: a month and a half two months, but we rustled 370 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: up many different organizations, the coast Guard, a salvage company, 371 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: a local marine company, an environmental company, and we all 372 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: worked towards a pumping her out. She had sank at 373 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: our pier which it was about eighteen feet of water, 374 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: and she had about a million gallons of water on 375 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: board and about forty thousand gallons of product or oil 376 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: on board left over from her service uh and from nine. 377 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: So we all worked slowly and diligently, and we pumped 378 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: the water out in a way that didn't put any 379 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: extra stress on her hull, and we were to raise 380 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: her and then patch her and repair her. And so 381 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: right now she's stable, she is upright and floating, and 382 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: now we're developing next steps for her to secure her 383 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: for the next fifty or seventy five years. That's amazing. 384 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: The photo that I saw, I mean, like you said, 385 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: she was, she was sunk. Just I have such great 386 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: memories of investigating there with ghost hunters. I was just 387 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: I was so impressed by just the the collections and 388 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: these ships themselves, and just I really liked my time there. 389 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: And I saw that, my heart just sunk. So I'm 390 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: really glad that you were able to at least get 391 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: her floating again. I'm I'm sure there was damage to 392 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: the collections inside and whatnot, but it sounds like you 393 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: guys have assembled a great team to kind of get 394 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: things hopefully put back together. Yeah, thank you. As my job, 395 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes vernacularly called the curator, it was my 396 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: job to pull off all of the artifacts that were 397 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: displayed on board, recattle logged them. See if we can 398 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: get preservation and conservation team here to make sure that 399 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: they can be preserved as best as possible. So that's 400 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: what my summer has been. And I've been working with 401 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: a conservator and You've developed a really strong volunteer program 402 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: that's all been trained and so we are slowly preserving 403 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: all that can be preserved from that ship. And thank 404 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: you for being here in the past. Oh yeah, I'm 405 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: always championing the Buffalo Naval Park online, always retweeting all 406 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: your tweets. I always tell people to go there. Um, 407 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: I just think it's a really important spot. And so 408 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: that being said, you know my time there, obviously we 409 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: were there for the ghosts, but you know, we always 410 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: try to be very respectful to whenever military history is involved, 411 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: um in our investigations. But you know, I did have 412 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: some pretty wild experiences there, which I think a lot 413 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: of people report. I think mainly I remember hearing a 414 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: lot of voices. Adam and I heard many voices. We 415 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: were in the submarine, which I'm hugely claustrophobia, and every 416 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: time I go into a submarine, I'm just amazed and 417 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: how people lived in those for months at a time. 418 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: And uh, and then I remember also we had a 419 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: major experience with footsteps going overhead. So are those just 420 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: kind of things that happened there on the regular? Yeah, 421 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: I would say absolutely. The footsteps I have not heard 422 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: as much, but certainly voices we have heard throughout each 423 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: of our ships. And it is extremely eerie, as you know, 424 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, to be here overnight, and when you believe 425 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: you're the only people on board, you know, it's it 426 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: can be a very unique, interesting experience for sure. Well, 427 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: I think that when we investigate any vessel on water, 428 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: it does create this kind of host of unusual circumstances 429 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: and sounds that we're not completely familiar with, and so 430 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: we have to kind of, you know, take that into 431 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: consideration as we investigate. But the voices were pretty clear, 432 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: and it's strange because they do sound just like male voices, 433 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: um sometimes kind of stern or sometimes I remember I 434 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: was hearing some chatter in another room. It sounded almost 435 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: like they were laughing. And when we investigated with ghost Hunters, 436 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: it would be Adam and me, a camera operator and 437 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: a sound person and so you know, it's four of 438 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: us on that entire ship, and so to hear voices 439 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: is really eerie. It is your you know, there's some 440 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: things that you can chalk up amy too, just being 441 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: a ship that's in water that wrote you know, that 442 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: moves and rolls and pitches with the wind and the water. 443 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: But when you have an experience that is real enough 444 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: to where it actually changes your behavior, then for me, 445 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: that's what my experience has been. Like I would spent 446 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: the night on board the various ships multiple times in 447 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: my working career here and there's a potential moment where 448 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: I hear something and I actually respond to it, like 449 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I called back or I stopped, and that is that's 450 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: I usually can differentiate pretty quickly, just even unconsciously, when 451 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: you're walking through oh that's a creek. That's a creek, 452 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: and you just keep going. Then when there's something that 453 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: I actually stop and start talking to and then you 454 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: realize that you know, there's no one else there, so 455 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: it changes your behavior. And that's something that's really startling 456 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: to me, is that I was potentially so affected by 457 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: it that I called back out or I stopped walking 458 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: or you know something, you know because of just that 459 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: unconscious you know, noise that you just normally here on board. Yeah, Now, 460 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: were you a believer in ghosts before you took the 461 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: position at the Buffalo Naval Park. Um, I hadn't quite 462 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: figured it out yet fully, I mean, ultimately I haven't either, 463 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I think, and some people when 464 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: I have conversations about this, it's you almost have to 465 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: go down, you know. Then you have to answer like 466 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: almost like religion. And I don't know how far you 467 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: want to go. But you know, if I say, if 468 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm a nonbeliever in an afterlife, if I have experiences, 469 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: then I have to say, oh, well, now I have 470 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: to start believing in some sort of higher being. Right. 471 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: And sometimes people tell me, you know that you don't 472 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: have to get to that point, but no, I mean, 473 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: I'd never really had anything on before working here that 474 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: would have led me to believe like, oh, there's something 475 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: in the afterlife, right, I mean, And it sounds like 476 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, you you come at it from like a 477 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: pragmatic viewpoint, you know, And I'm very similar where even 478 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: in all that I do, I will never tell people 479 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: that ghosts are real. Like I know, I've seen and 480 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: experience very strange things. I believe it could be the 481 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: spirits of people who have passed on and are still 482 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: here for whatever reason. But I don't absolutely know. Yeah, 483 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 1: that's always I guess the best way of tackling an 484 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: amy is uh if and when there's ever definitive proof, 485 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: you know, maybe some people claim there is definitive, but 486 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: you know when I started there was I started working 487 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: here in two thousand eighteen, you know. There for the 488 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: people that were on board many years before me, they 489 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: just say, oh, you know, you might hear something, you 490 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: might see something, but just know that there benevolent and 491 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: you're you're carrying on their story and their tradition, and 492 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: so you're pretty all set. That's a good way to 493 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: handle it. What was your first experience where you were like, okay, this, 494 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: there's something to this. Just using the terminology. Hallways on 495 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: ships are passageways, right, So so I was walking down 496 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: a passageway which connected to larger rooms or spaces, and 497 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: they both have those water type doors on either side, 498 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: so you have to spin the wheel, unlock one, then 499 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: you batten it down and then you walk through this 500 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: little darkened passage way and then you unseal the other one, 501 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: and then you walk through to the other space. So 502 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: for that thirty seconds or whatever that where you're in 503 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: the dark space, the darken space, I could swear I 504 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: heard some scratching and like almost like a growl, which 505 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: was interesting. And again talking just how I mentioned a 506 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: few minutes ago, it made me alter my behavior, so 507 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: it didn't sound like a natural thing with the ship 508 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: moving and creaking and you know, I mean they're seventy 509 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: seventy nine years old, all of our ships, so uh, 510 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: you know in there prone to the elements. But I 511 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: stopped and I said, you know, in my head, I said, wow, 512 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: what was that. I didn't have a flashlight with me 513 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: or anything, so I just kept going. And that would 514 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: have been my first experience. Have people come to you, 515 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: like maybe visitors or whatever and described some sort of 516 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: wild experience they had where you were just left completely 517 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: scratching your head. Uh. It is very interesting, and I'm 518 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: not an expert in it, but there's some people that 519 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, just reading and researching this, that people you know, 520 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: have sensitivity and there's a spectrum of sensitivity levels. And 521 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: I have talked to many people that exhibit or you know, 522 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: mentioned that they have a sensitivity to spirits or the unknown, 523 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: so to speak, and they really have very interesting experiences 524 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: that I don't have. Right, if they have a sensitivity 525 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: to it, they will experience stuff almost throughout the whole ship. 526 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: They say, I don't have anything specific, but it's just 527 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: talking to people on board. They say, oh my god. 528 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: You know, I was walking through the Little Rock or 529 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: the Sullivan's and almost every space that I went into, uh, 530 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: I felt something. And I say, well, I don't have 531 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: that sensitivity, so it's just a room to me, so 532 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: to speak, or a space or something. But for someone 533 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: that has that sensitivity, they say, they experience a lot 534 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: of different things on board. So yeah, I mean I 535 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: could imagine that. I guess I don't have that sensitivity, 536 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: but I mean I feel like probably there's a lot 537 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: of residual energy and that kind of spectrum probably left 538 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: in those kinds of places. A lot happened there over 539 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: the years, so it makes sense. Has there ever been 540 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: an experience either you have had or someone has come 541 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: to you with that made you at all nervous? One 542 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: other experience that I've had was probably right when the 543 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: It's not related to the Sullivans, but we've heard many 544 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: things about the Sullivan's. I have not experienced them. I 545 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: have been on board alone at night on the Sullivan's 546 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: and I have not experienced anything. But people mentioned, certainly 547 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: in the mess decks where the crew eight, they can 548 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: see a face by the what's called the scuttle butt, 549 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: which would be like the water fountain, and there's some 550 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: degradation to the face, for lack of a better word, 551 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: either part of it has been burned. I had not 552 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: experience that, but that could obviously, that could be a 553 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: pretty scary experience for someone if they see a face 554 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: that has been burned with fire is kind of floating 555 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: and appearing in front of them. Another experience I had 556 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: on the Little Rock, and that's why I brought in 557 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: the Sullivan's, was it was right around when the sullivan sank, 558 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: and so all of the crew was working on the 559 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: Sullivan's on the main decks and things like that, and 560 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: so I was the only person on board the Little Rock. 561 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: And again in one of those passageways, I was in 562 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: my office and maybe about fifteen feet away there's a door, 563 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: just a regular what we call a panel door, but 564 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: it looks like a door in your house, right, And 565 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: it opened and shut, and I did one of those 566 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: things again change my behavior. I called out, I said, 567 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: I'm in here if anyone needs me, just thinking that 568 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: they were walking around, you know, and maybe someone was 569 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: looking for me. So some you know, a coworker crew. 570 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: So I called out, I said, you know, I'm in 571 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: my office if anyone is looking for me. And then 572 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: thing So then I get on our rocky talkies and 573 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: I say, hey, is anyone else on the little rock 574 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: besides me? And Everyone's like, no, We're all on the 575 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: Sullivan's doing work. And so I was like, okay, that 576 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: can catch you off guard, especially when you're completely alone. 577 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: You're like, okay, if you can move that, what else 578 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: can you move? Right? And again I don't think of 579 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: it in those terms of they're moving objects in the 580 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: physical world. But it's really tough to, you know, say 581 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: what else that could have been. I mean, if it 582 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: more opens and shuts on board, I mean we're probably 583 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: moving that day. And you know, sometimes the doors move 584 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: an inch this way or an inch that way based 585 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: on our swaying and you know, moving starboard deport a 586 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: little bit, just rocking with the waves, but not something 587 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: like that. Did you notice an uptake in any paranormal 588 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: activity when the Sullivan's sank. Did anybody report anything extra 589 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: when that happened? I do not have a recollection. That 590 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: would have been prime time. There was a lot of 591 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: the responders were down below, you know, surveying and analyzing 592 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't remember hearing any stories from them now. 593 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: That would have been their first time on board right well. 594 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: And also there was It's probably just a flurry of 595 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: of things you were all doing, you know, It's one 596 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: of those things sometimes you don't notice the paranormal unless 597 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: you're kind of sitting in silence for whatever reason, which 598 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: I assume everyone was working pretty fervently to try to 599 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: get things fixed at that point. You know what, Amy, 600 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: that's true, That's absolutely true. Now. One of the areas 601 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: that was really took a lot of damage was the 602 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,760 Speaker 1: mess deck, where I say, people have seen their face 603 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: that has been burnt. Even today, there's no electricity on board, 604 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: so someone goes down below, it's dark. I have been down, 605 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, collecting the artifacts and taking them off board 606 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 1: and taking them to our conservation room. But your mind 607 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: is really focused on other things, and uh, you're scrambling 608 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: and scurrying, and you know, maybe just at that moment, 609 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: those moments were not being as sensitive as we may 610 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: be to that situation. Maybe Kindred Spirits needs to come investigate. 611 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: It's a it's a hollow ship right now. And you 612 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: know there's there's one death from one sailor and in 613 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: World War two and the family is very involved here 614 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: and it would be interesting to see, you know, of 615 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: course with the five brothers, and they're untimely passing altogether. Uh. Certainly, 616 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: any warship brings that sort of traumatic human experience where 617 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: things can not go according to plan, I guess so 618 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: to speak. Yeah, I mean it makes sense. Which of 619 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: the ships would you say is like the most haunted? 620 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: To me, I would say the Little Rock, our cruiser 621 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: USS Little Rock is certainly it's the large. It did 622 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: have the most, uh, sailor deaths on it, and it 623 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: was only I think three during her service, but Sullivan's 624 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: was one. USS Croker had some injuries, but no sailors 625 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: passing or perishing on board. So the Little Rock with 626 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: three sailors during her service perishing on board, and even 627 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: we had someone passed when he was visiting. He was 628 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: an old Little Rock sailor and he was spending the 629 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: night on board and unfortunately had a heart attack on 630 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: board and passed away while he was in his bump. Wow, 631 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's kind of a full circle moment. Now, 632 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: do you guys do ghost tours or anything still or 633 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: nighttime tours? Well? I think with the COVID pandemic that 634 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: really slowed that sort of event on board. Um, but 635 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: we're slowly bringing it back. Yeah, for those that are 636 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: interested in being here. One of the things that we 637 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: believe can cause hauntings is sometimes just objects themselves. You know. 638 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes things will be brought from other locations that might 639 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: have some sort of tragedy associated with them. Um. Is 640 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: there anything like that on display there that might have 641 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: come from someplace that could maybe have some energy with 642 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: it that might be causing some of your activity. That 643 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: is a great question and one that I would be 644 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: hard to come right off the top of my head. 645 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: I know, certainly we have diaries of men that had 646 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: bad experiences during World War Two. We do have a 647 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: POW uniform from Vietnam that's on display. For those that 648 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: are still m i A from the Vietnam conflict. They 649 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: create bracelets, and so we have bracelets on display with 650 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: their names and the last date of when they were 651 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: not missing and when they were still with their platoon 652 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. So I believe those few items in the 653 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: Vietnam exhibit can probably have that bad essence to it. 654 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: I think we found that a lot with places that 655 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: display a lot of kind of military memorabilia, you know, 656 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: depending on where it came from or you know, sometimes 657 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the location, it's the items themselves, and 658 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: so you know, maybe just over time as things happen, 659 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: maybe pay attention to where or what they might be around. 660 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: And maybe it's not even something associated with someone who 661 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: served on the ship. It could be someone completely different. 662 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: That is uh. That definitely excuse my thinking in a 663 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: different direction, which I hadn't considered before. So I appreciate that. Yeah, 664 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: I should see, you know, around our Vietnam exhibit, you know, 665 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: we have a jacket from someone that was killed the local. 666 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: We have a jacket from the local nurse that was killed. 667 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: Right off the top, we have three or four items 668 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: of people that perished in Vietnam that are on display 669 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: their personal effects in their items. So I'll try to 670 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: be more sensitive to that. I always thinking outside the box, 671 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: like what else could it be? You know, because sometimes 672 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: we're investigating places that don't really have a lot of 673 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: death or tragedy associated with them particularly, but like we'll 674 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: have a ton of activity going on, and so it's 675 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: kind of our job to narrow it down. You know, 676 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: look what else happened in the area, or are there 677 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: items here that it could be our emotions running high 678 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: for other reasons. You know, there's all sorts of theories 679 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: out there. So but that being said, if people want 680 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: to visit the park, what should they do? Is it 681 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: open year round or they are better times to visit 682 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: or yeah, sure, thanks Amy. We are open because we're 683 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: in Buffalo. Were only open for a spring, summer, and fall, 684 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: so we usually open up, you know, the last weekend 685 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: in March, and we run right through about Thanksgiving, so 686 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: around roughly around the last weekend in November, and then 687 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: we do shut down for the winter. Our website is 688 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: Buffalo Naval Park all one word dot O r G 689 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: or dot org Buffalo Naval Park dot org, and they 690 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: can purchase tickets online, they can search through some photographs 691 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: and really learn about our park right from our website, 692 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: and certainly we're on social media with Facebook and Instagram 693 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: and our YouTube Channel as well, so I remember being 694 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: there and it was very cold, so that's kind of uh, 695 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: it's kind of the m O with our shows. We 696 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: go usually when things are kind of off season, so 697 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it was winter when I 698 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: went there, because I have a picture of me standing 699 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: on the little rock in a great, big winter coat, 700 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: so that makes absolute sense. It could have been in 701 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: the fall when we're beginning to wind down, and yeah, 702 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: the the ships themselves get as hot, and what for 703 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: those areas that are not heated or air conditioned, they 704 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 1: get as cold as it is outside or they get 705 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 1: as hot as it is outside, depending on the season. 706 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: So very much worth of visit. I highly recommend it 707 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: to everyone. I really appreciate you taking the time to 708 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: chat with me, and we'll have to chat offline and 709 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: maybe we can arrange a visit soon. I think that'd 710 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: be really great. Great. Thank you so much, Amy. I'm 711 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: happy to be here and I hope your viewers and 712 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: listeners enjoy it. Investigating places like the Buffalo Naval Park 713 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: is tricky because you want to get to the bottom 714 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: of the haunting, but you also want to be incredibly 715 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: respectful of the people who served and sacrificed so much 716 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: for our country. I urge anyone investigating a location steeped 717 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: in military history to do your due diligence before doing so. 718 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 1: Remember this is not a novelty. Most likely, any spirits 719 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: you encounter feel they are still performing what they consider 720 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: to be a sacred duty. Nevertheless, seeking spirits are not 721 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: I highly encourage a trip to the Buffalo Naval Park. 722 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed my time there, and I know you 723 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: will too. I am Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Rode. 724 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, 725 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: with additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra day Alba. 726 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: This show is edited and produced by rema El Kali, 727 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: with supervising producer Josh Thayne and executive producers Aaron Manky, 728 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production 729 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. 730 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: Learn more about this show over at Grimm and Mild 731 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit 732 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,720 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 733 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.