1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV. 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: Hello everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 3: We are your hosts. I'm Rosha Pecquerrero. 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 4: And I am Evet Genteel and as always we are 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 4: with our amazing producer, mister Trevor Young. 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Hey, Hey, how's it going. 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 3: Hello, ha Trevor Trevor. 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: So, I know we have a pretty interesting case coming 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: up today. A very important case has to do with 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: the existence of sexual assaults in the Catholic Church, which 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: I know can be a very touchy issue, and we're 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: going to get into a very I think powerful story 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: that illustrates some of those issues. But you know, in 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: that vein, I was thinking back as we were starting 21 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: research for this case about the movie Spotlight. I don't 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: know if y'all remember watching that. It had Michael Keaton, 23 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: but it was about some of the very real life 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: events involving sexual misconduct in the Catholic church in Boston 25 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: is very good movie. I think it won Best Picture 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: of the year it came out. 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember that movie very well. You know, me 28 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 4: myself being Catholic and you know, becoming a Catholic actually 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 4: when I got married to my husband, who was you know, 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 4: born and raised in the Catholic community. But for me, 31 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 4: my mom couldn't remember if she had been baptized or not. 32 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 4: And I just really wanted that blessing if you had 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 4: been baptized or not, right, yeah, if I had been 34 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 4: baptized or not. But yeah, I do remember that movie 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 4: and it's a very very movie. But I also want 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 4: to talk about The Keepers, and we're going to get 37 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 4: into that, you know, much later in the episode. But 38 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 4: my voice is a little hoarse because I had just 39 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: had laryngitis. But while I was home, I spent seven 40 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 4: hours watching this particular documentary called The Keepers, and it 41 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 4: was mind blowing. And we will talk about that later. 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 4: And Trevor, now will you take us through today's case. 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 3: I've talked to the hunter that found Kathy and he said, 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: since the day that he found her, the police have 45 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: never talked to him except for that day. 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 5: They sought to do the same thing that senior church 47 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 5: leaders in the diocese we investigated have done for decades. 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 5: Bury the sexual abuse by priests upon children and cover 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 5: it up forever. 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: And I can hear Kathy saying, I told you I'd 51 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: take care of this, and I. 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 3: Said, I didn't think you meant Twenty years later. 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: Sister Catherine Sesenik was a young teacher at a Catholic 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: school in Baltimore, Maryland. Early on the evening of November seventh, 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, she disappeared while outrunning errands in her neighborhood. 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: The next morning, two friends found Sister Kathy's car parked 57 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: haphazardly nearby, but weeks went by with no sign of Kathy. Finally, 58 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: on January third, nineteen seventy, the body of Sister Catherine 59 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: Sesenik was found in a remote area south of the city. 60 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: No one was ever charged with her murder, but some 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: of the investigators were suspicious of the community in the 62 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: Catholic school where she taught, especially one of the priests. 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: In the years that followed, more and more sinister events 64 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: came to light. Painting a story of sexual abuse and 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: intimidation at the hands of a powerful diocese that controlled 66 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: everyone in its territory, including the police. And so what 67 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: happened to Kathy Sesnik, why weren't the police able to 68 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: make a determination in her case? And what does the 69 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: story reveal about the dark secrets of the Catholic Church. 70 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 4: Okay, you guys, this is one that we really have 71 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 4: to buckle up for. I mean, this case just gets 72 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 4: more and more crazy. You know, as you go along 73 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 4: the stories that we've told this season, they've touched on 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 4: some major issues, and today really is no different. But 75 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 4: we're looking at sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, which 76 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: is a huge, huge issue that is still very prevalent today. 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really just I think one of many. You know, 78 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: it seems like every year there's another story of how 79 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: this sort of wide scale abuse is allowed to go 80 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: on somewhere or it's just swept under the rug entirely right, 81 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: And you know, I think no matter your personal faith, 82 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: this story especially illustrates the enormous power that a religious 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: group or institution can have over an entire city, a community, 84 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: and neighborhood. And I think that's super dangerous and the 85 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: story is a huge example of that. 86 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Trevor. It's a very dangerous issue. 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: I was actually doing some research. 88 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: And the numbers don't lie. 89 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: They show that in the United States alone, more than 90 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: eleven thousand complaints have been documented by victims of abuse 91 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: by priests. 92 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 3: Like that's a lot. 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a lot. And you have to remember too, 94 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 4: that's just those that have told. 95 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: Their stories, right, right, the documented cases, right. 96 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 4: There are so many other people that have not even 97 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 4: come out yet. So, yeah, that number is shocking, but 98 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: you know there's way. 99 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: More, way more. 100 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there are numbers like that for countries all 101 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: over the world, not just the US. So this story 102 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: of sister Catherine Seysnik just brings issue down to a 103 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: human scale. 104 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: Right. 105 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: It's just a super insane, crazy story. But sister Kathy 106 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: Ssnick was a human. 107 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about Kathy Sesnick. Then. She grew 108 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She had three siblings, was supposedly 109 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: very bright, and by many accounts, just had this very 110 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: sparkling personality. She was also an achiever. She was senior 111 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: class president, a member of student council, and even may 112 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: queen at her school, but she was also valedictorian of 113 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: her high school. And then after that she joined the 114 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: school Sisters of Notre Dame. So she then goes on 115 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: to be a teacher at Archbishop Kio High School in Baltimore, Maryland. 116 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: It was an all girls school, and she taught English 117 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: there as well as drama, and everyone said that her 118 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: students loved her. She was everybody's favorite teacher. 119 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. So I read this Huffington Post article and it 120 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 4: says that Sister Kathy Saysnick was a real life version 121 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 4: of Maria, like the Julie Andrews character from the Sound 122 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 4: of Music. I mean, she was super exuberant, she sang, 123 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: she played her guitar, and her students would even drop 124 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 4: by her apartment, you know, and they would sing and dance. 125 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 4: And you know, when I hear that, I think of 126 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 4: like Sister Act. You know, the character in Sister Act, 127 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: Sister Mary Robert, who was like always smiling and you know, 128 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 4: happy to see her students and so giving. Like she 129 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: seemed exactly like that. 130 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, all of those beautiful things that you've just said 131 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: about her, Vet, I think it absolutely makes what happened 132 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: next so heartbreaking. On the evening of November seventh, nineteen 133 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: sixty nine, she left her apartment, which she happened to 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: share with another nun. She left to go buy a 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: gift for her sister's engagement party. It was around seven 136 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: thirty at night that she left to go go on 137 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: this errand, and apparently she got into her car, stopped 138 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: at the bank to cash her paycheck, and then she 139 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: went to a local bakery and bought some bakery buns, 140 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: and that was the last time anyone ever saw her alive. 141 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: We'll talk about what happened after we take a quick break. 142 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: So after sister Kathy Sessnik didn't return home, her roommate was, 143 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: of course frantic, and she later told reporters quote, nuns 144 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: in their order didn't stay out late, and Kathy would 145 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: have called if she needed to run an additional errand 146 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: end quote. But now it was eleven o'clock at night 147 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: and she hadn't heard from her, so she called a 148 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 2: couple of priests who wear their good friends. So these 149 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: particular priests came over immediately and they had learned what 150 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: had happened. At four point forty in the morning, the 151 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: priest decided to take a walk around the area. That's 152 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 2: when they found Kathy's car. It was parked carelessly across 153 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 2: the street from the apartment, even though she had her 154 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: own designated parking spot right behind the building, and it 155 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: didn't look good. They saw signs of a struggle, including 156 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: a broken umbrella in the back seat. They called the police, 157 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: who found that box of bakery buns she had purchased, 158 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: along with leaves and twigs. Branches had also been caught 159 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: in the cars antenna. 160 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so a quick sidebar that we should mention about 161 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: one of the priests who comes over to investigate. His 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: name was Gerard Coob, and he was apparently totally like 163 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: in love with Kathy Sessnik. And that is a whole 164 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: myriad of problems, right. You know, Yvette, you can probably 165 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: chime in here, but my understanding is that in the 166 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: Catholic Church, you know, you're not supposed to have any 167 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: sort of romantic relationship, certainly not nuns, but I don't 168 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: think pres either. Is that correct? 169 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 4: That is very true, That is very true. You take 170 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 4: you take a vow, Yeah, so priests and nuns take 171 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 4: vows and nuns. 172 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: Yes, right right, So, in fact, you know, two years 173 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: before this event happened before either of them had actually 174 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: taken said vows. Kathy and Gerard had spent I guess 175 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,479 Speaker 1: a lot of time together. They had written each other letters. 176 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: He even asked her to marry him, but she turned 177 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: him down, I guess, wanting to you know, maintain her job. 178 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: And apparently, three days before she disappeared, he even called 179 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: her one last time to tell her that he loved her, 180 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: and he told her he would leave the priesthood to 181 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: marry her if she'd leave the nun hood to you know, 182 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: for them to be together. And I don't think she 183 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: went for it. 184 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: I'm not sure what to think, you know, like, was 185 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 4: it romantic or is it suspicious. I kind of always 186 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 4: go back to Russia, you know, when she says it's 187 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 4: always the boyfriend or you know, it's always the romantic, 188 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 4: you know, the love interest. But you know, I do 189 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: feel like this is how rumors get started. 190 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 3: Unrequited love leads to something. Yeah. 191 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: I think it's maybe possibly romantic in you know, the 192 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: case of their not being a homicide involved, but the 193 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: fact that someone was killed, you know, I think makes 194 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: it very suspicious. You know, and even if there wasn't 195 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: a death involved, in this. You know, there's something I 196 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: think kind of creepy about it. You know. It's not 197 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: quite to the level of, you know, say a stalker, 198 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: which we talked about on the previous episode, but somebody 199 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: who's just kind of so obsessed that they're willing to 200 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: forego certain boundaries that someone has put up in their 201 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: life always strikes me as problematic. You know. That's that's 202 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: always a bit of a red flag for me. Asking 203 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: someone to leave the nun hood to run off with them, 204 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, and they've clearly said that they are like 205 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with this before, right, Like, I think there's probably 206 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: something there to look at that's not what it should 207 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: be for sure. And in fact, police actually brought Gerard 208 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: Coup in for questioning, but he had an alibi of 209 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: having been at the movies earlier that night, so I 210 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: guess that was that he had a solid alibi for 211 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: where he. 212 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 3: Was, so it wasn't the unrequited love interest got it. 213 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: So there ends up being a massive man hunt, with 214 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: thirty five Baltimore officers and residents of the area joining 215 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: in sweeping a fourteen block area of Southwest Baltimore. But 216 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: they don't find anything and more importantly, Baltimore police tell 217 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: the media they do not believe foul play was involved. 218 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that, and that strikes me as just 219 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 4: that statement alone, when you don't really know, right, that's 220 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: political agenda, I mean to me, right, because there were 221 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 4: sticks and branches that were found in her car and 222 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 4: other clear signs of a struggle. But the police say 223 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 4: that they don't think that there's foul play, so that 224 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 4: doesn't sit too well. 225 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 226 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: But finally, on January third, Mathie's body is found by 227 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: a father and a son out on a hunting trip 228 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: in Lansdowne, which I believe that's a remote area south 229 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: of Baltimore. 230 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: Yep, I've actually driven through there, have you. Anyways, the 231 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: police said it was likely that she had been either 232 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 1: carried or forced to walk down there, and an autopsy 233 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: found a skull fracture caused by a blow to her 234 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: head with some sort of blunt instrument, most likely a brick, 235 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: they said, and the pathologist noted that the quote disarray 236 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: of clothing suggested possible rape. But unfortunately that's about as 237 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: far as the police get with us. Investigators work on 238 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: the case up until nineteen seventy seven. But you know. Honestly, 239 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: they're unable to make any real breakthrough, do they say, 240 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: to the lack of any physical evidence in the case, 241 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: even though we know there's quite a bit. So in 242 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven they closed the case. 243 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: But that is not the end of the story. So 244 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 2: fast forward to nineteen ninety four, two former students of 245 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: Archbishop Keio that's the school where Sister Cathy says Nick taught, 246 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: file a lawsuit against a priest in that school whose 247 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 2: name is Joseph Maskell. So the suit claims he sexually 248 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 2: abused them repeatedly when they were students there. The women 249 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: filing the suit are named Gene Wayner and Teresa Lancaster. 250 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: And apparently these are not the first accusations Maskal has faced, 251 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 2: by the way. In fact, back in the nineteen sixties 252 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: and seventies, Maskeal was widely feared in the school because everyone, 253 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: including the students and the staff, knew he was a predator, 254 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: but no one spoke up about it. 255 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 4: Right, So, you guys know how I love documentaries, and 256 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 4: I talked about this earlier in the beginning of our 257 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 4: episode about this documentary The Keepers, and in it, Teresa 258 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 4: Lancaster says, when you were called over the loud speaker 259 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: to report to Father Maskell, a dead silence would come 260 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 4: over the c room and other girls would look at 261 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 4: you with sad eyes, and the teacher would just look down. 262 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 4: They knew something was going on. 263 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: Wow, and then he gets accused of this. 264 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: It's so so disgustingly awful, and it's so shameful, right, Like, 265 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: it's like this abuse has been normalized, like that mom 266 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: stood up for her son, but no one was standing 267 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: up for these girls at Kio. 268 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's heartbreaking to me, right. 269 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: So obviously these claims against Father Mascal are pretty egregious, 270 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: and Teresa Lancaster said that Father Maskal took her to 271 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: a gynecologist named Christian Richter, who prescribed douches that the 272 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: priest then administered himself in his school office, and numerous 273 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: others after this stepped forward to say that he assaulted 274 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: them frequently in his office. This is not a one 275 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: time occurrence. And I think it's also important to note 276 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: here that these claims are in fact corroborated by court 277 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: records as well as interviews with up to eight other 278 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Kio students, So there's clearly a pattern here right. 279 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: Clearly, and he wasn't stopped. Oh I'm so grossed out. Yeah. 280 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: So basically this was an open secret and this reign 281 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: of terror by a criminal man who used his power 282 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: as a priest and his power in the church as 283 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: an authoritative figure to literally intimidate everyone. But I feel 284 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: the most for these young girls who were students at 285 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: this school and they were completely trapped. 286 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: They probably felt like they had nowhere. 287 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 4: To go exactly, and no one to tell, you know. 288 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 4: But we also know that this did not go unnoticed, 289 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 4: and at least one person did try to stop it 290 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 4: from the inside, and that person was sister Kathy, says Nick. 291 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: Yes, and this gets into a big conspiracy, and we 292 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: will talk about that right after we take another quick break. 293 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: There was at least one person who we know of 294 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: who was fighting back against Father Joseph Maskell, and that 295 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: person is the popular young teacher, Sister Kathy Sesnick. Her 296 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: students loved her, and many of them confided in her 297 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 2: about the abuse of Maskal and his colleagues, and she 298 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: tried to stop it by doing things like making excuses 299 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: for girls when he was calling them to his office, 300 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 2: you know, like saying things oh, they can't get there. 301 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: They couldn't get away, Sorry about that. In May of 302 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, sister Kathy had approached young Jeen Wayner 303 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: and just asked her straight out whether the priest had 304 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: been hurting her, and Jean admitted that yes they had, 305 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: and apparently Kathy promised her that something would be done 306 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: about it and basically tells her to go off and 307 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 2: just try to enjoy her summer because she was going 308 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: to take care of it. 309 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: And apparently this is where things start to really take 310 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: a dark turn. So as we know, Kathy Sesnick disappeared 311 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: in November of nineteen sixty nine and then was found 312 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: dead the following January. But after she went missing, Geene 313 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: Wayner says that Father Maskell took her Gene for a 314 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: car ride, which I guess was a common thing that 315 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: the priests would just take these young girls for trips places, right. 316 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: I guess at the time families really trusted these priests 317 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: like Joseph Maskull to do this. But when Jean and 318 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: Father Maskeal get out of the car after they've driven somewhere, 319 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: he walks her over to a field where she says 320 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: that she saw sister Kathy's body there in the field. 321 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: Some pretty graphic details here for anybody who's sensitive to that. 322 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: If you are, I recommend you skip ahead a few seconds. 323 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: So. 324 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: According to the Huffington Post quote, Sesnick was still clad 325 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: in her aqua colored coat and maggots were crawling on 326 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: her face. Yer tried to brush them off with her 327 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: bare hands. Help me get these off of her, she cried, 328 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: turning to Maskell in a panic. Instead, she says, the 329 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: priest leaned down behind her and whispered in her ear. 330 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: You see what happens when you say bad things about people. 331 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 4: H shit, it makes my skin crawl, my blood boil 332 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 4: to think that you know a priest who you look 333 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 4: up to, supposedly trust, and this is going on. You 334 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 4: can't make this up. This is like a movie, right, 335 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 4: but this is actually happening. 336 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is something you would expect to see, 337 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: like in The Godfathers rights right, Like it's just absolutely insane, 338 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: like too diabolical to you know, even be real. But 339 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: when Jean Wayner finally builds up the courage to tell 340 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: the story in nineteen ninety four, she describes details about 341 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: Kathy Sestek's body that were only known to investigators at 342 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: the time, like the blue coat exactly. 343 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: And then there's Teresa Lancaster, the other woman who filed 344 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety four suit along with Gene Wayner. And 345 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: it's important to note here that both of these women 346 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 2: were actually anonymous at the time of the filing, and 347 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: Teresa at the time she also experienced retaliation for confiding 348 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 2: in sister Kathy. She claims that Maskal drove her out 349 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: to a wooded area where there were lots of police 350 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: milling around, and that two police officers raped her in 351 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: the back seat while Maskell stood outside of the police 352 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: car talking and laughing with the other cops. 353 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 4: I mean, this is just pure evil on every level possible. 354 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting here to realize that this 355 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: is now becoming a much bigger issue, right, this is 356 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: no longer just about abuse within the catholictures. Obviously that's 357 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: a huge part of it. But now all we're seeing 358 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement get involved in a very dark way, a 359 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: very criminal way. And so what we're seeing is this 360 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: balloon out, this picture of abuse and cover up that 361 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: involves an entire city and all of the forces within 362 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: a city, like law enforcement. 363 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, this explains a lot obviously about why 364 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 4: the police never saw this case because so many of 365 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 4: them were a part of it. You know. It's just 366 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 4: it's really just corruption at every level. It's when you 367 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 4: talk about above the law, this is that and so 368 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 4: much more. 369 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: Right. It's different types of people, but they're all taking 370 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: advantage of authority and power in very evil ways. Right. 371 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 2: So this actually reminds me of the corruption that was 372 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: happening in LAPD when our great grandfather George Hodell was 373 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: a cue used of killing Elizabeth Short, also known as 374 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 2: the Black Dahlia. Because he had so much, so much 375 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: dirt on the police officers of the LAPD. We all 376 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: believe that's one of the reasons that he was never convicted. 377 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: You know, like corruption to the nth level. And that's 378 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: it feels just like that right now. 379 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, this can take place in Baltimore, LA, you know, 380 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, nineteen sixties whenever. So moving forward, other victims 381 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: also described Maskell as bringing them to places where police 382 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: officers would abuse them. So this is just keeps going on. 383 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: It turns out that Maskell's brother was a police lieutenant, 384 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: and it seems he really had the entire police force 385 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: in the area under his complete control. So they're like 386 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: one family that has authority over this entire region. 387 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 3: Feels very much like the Godfather. 388 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: So gross, and so as you said earlier, this is 389 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: probably a huge part of the reason why, again this 390 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: case wasn't solved because the police are in on this. 391 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: So other media reports on the story have pointed out 392 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: that as late as nineteen ninety four, there is still 393 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: really no justice. The court dismisses all the claims against 394 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: Mascal at that point because it's past the statute of limitations. 395 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: So in Maryland, victims of sexual abuse have just three 396 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: years from the time the abuse ends or from when 397 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: they discover it to file a civil suit, which is 398 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: not a long time. 399 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 4: No, I mean three years. That's I mean, that's just ridiculous. 400 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 4: That has to. 401 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 3: Change, Yeah, especially for sexual abuse. 402 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 4: So it's basically saying it's too late because your memory 403 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 4: may not be reliable enough. Meanwhile, all these other women 404 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 4: are coming together and corroborating on the same type of abuse, 405 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 4: right that has happened to Jane and to Teresa, And 406 00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 4: what is that? 407 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the idea there was statute of limitations is 408 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: that after a certain number of years, your account as 409 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: an eyewitness is just not as reliable, like you said, 410 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: because of memory or whatever. But you know, I think 411 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: if you have enough detail and you have you know, 412 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: enough of a pattern of abuse, and especially like this 413 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: kind of abuse, like I don't think this is something 414 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: that you forget, Like I don't think your memory is 415 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: just going to fade about being raped by two police 416 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: officers after three years, Like that's something that is going 417 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: to stay with these women for the rest of their lives. 418 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 4: Exactly, Trevor, Exactly, you don't forget about that. These women 419 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: fight every day to probably just walk through life because 420 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 4: that is a memory that is so deep embedded in 421 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 4: their spirit. 422 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: True, and you know, the law is frequently unjust, and 423 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: this is why we have things like amendments to improve 424 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: upon this. But it doesn't end there. A police detective 425 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: talking anonymously to the Hfington Post said that he got 426 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: a call in nineteen ninety four from a grave digger. 427 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: The man said that Maskell had ordered him to bury 428 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: a bunch of boxes in the graveyard. When police went 429 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: and dug them up, one of those boxes contained a 430 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: bunch of nude photos of underage girls, but then when 431 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: all the boxes were delivered to the evidence room, those 432 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: containing the photos were inexplicably missing. Other retired detectives have 433 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: also come forward in recent years and confirmed that they 434 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: were quote pressured to back off the Catholic priests during 435 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: their investigations. 436 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 4: Gross it's obvious that this was a cover up at 437 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 4: the highest level possible. 438 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this goes from being a conspiracy theory to 439 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: a full blown conspiracy that can be proven and corroborated 440 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: and every detail of it tracked down right. Unfortunately, none 441 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: of this really leads to a lot of consequences for 442 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: Joseph Maskell. In nineteen ninety four, he was removed from 443 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: the ministry, but he fled to Ireland until his death 444 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one at age sixty two. He 445 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: worked as a psychologist and unfortunately supposedly continued his pattern 446 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: of abuse while working there. 447 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 4: So basically nothing happened to him, There were no consequences, 448 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 4: and I'm sure he continued to do it over and 449 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 4: over and over again because he got away with it. 450 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 4: They let him. They let him get away with it. 451 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 2: Right, that was his entire life. He knew nothing else, 452 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 2: and he'd gotten away with it for so long. But 453 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 2: it's not until twenty sixteen that the Archdiocese of Baltimore 454 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: releases a list of seventy one clergymen that had been 455 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: accused of sexual abuse and then backed that up with 456 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: credible evidence. 457 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: And Maskell is on that list. 458 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 4: Of course he is. And I'm sure he was at 459 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 4: the top of the list. 460 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, but conveniently it was after he died, of course. 461 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: And victims of the listed clergy are off for money. 462 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: They got financial settlements by the archdiocese for that abuse, 463 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: and some victims claimed that, considering the sheer horrificness of 464 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 2: these crimes, that money was not enough. They wanted to 465 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 2: see legal changes, like you always tell us, Trevor, and 466 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: they wanted to see changes within the church, and they 467 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 2: wanted to prevent anything like this from happening again in 468 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: the future. 469 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean money, money can't buy what they've been through. 470 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 4: I mean, it can't take that away. 471 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 3: It's just. 472 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 4: I can't even tell you, guys, like just spending seven 473 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 4: hours of watching this documentary and I had no voice, 474 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 4: and I was yelling like through my spirit of what 475 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 4: these victims had gone through. And then to offer them, 476 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 4: you know, it was something like twenty five to fifty 477 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 4: thousand dollars, Like. 478 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 3: That's not thing compared to what they've been through. 479 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 4: I do want to say this, you know, one good 480 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 4: thing we always look for, that silver lining. That school 481 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 4: ko was torn down. It's no longer there, and you 482 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 4: know the fact that these women, some of these women 483 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 4: were there, like when it came down was you know, 484 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 4: I don't want to say closure because you know, they 485 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 4: can never have closure on you know, something so evil 486 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 4: that happened to them. But I think there was a 487 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,479 Speaker 4: part of them that just the fact that this was 488 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 4: no longer there helped in some way. 489 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: That's so beautiful to hear that that school Kio was 490 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: torn down. You know, we also have some additional momentum 491 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: going in the right direction. In recent years, more and 492 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: more people have joined the fight for justice in this case. 493 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 2: So a school alumni group that began with with one 494 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: person asking questions on Facebook has exploded and sparked a 495 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 2: brand new murder investigation into the murder of sister Kathy Sesnik. 496 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: It's officially an open case again, and this quest for 497 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: justice has brought all of these women together and has 498 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: helped so many of those abuse survivors find healing and 499 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: find support, and that brings us to this week's IMOA. 500 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: This week's message of hope and healing goes out to 501 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: Gen Wayner, Teresa Lancaster and the thousands of women and 502 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: men like them who have come out about abuse they 503 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: have suffered at the hands of religious clergy. 504 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 4: It is for the founders of SNAP, the Grassroots Survivors 505 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 4: Network of those abused by priest. 506 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 2: Back in nineteen ninety three, when SNAP held listening sessions 507 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 2: for survivors to tell their stories, not a single Catholic 508 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: bishop came out to hear them, but the group persevered 509 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: and grew. It is making noise and sparking change. 510 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 4: The stories of abuse are painful to hear, but more 511 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 4: painful still is to have lived them and to have 512 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 4: your voice silenced when you try to speak your truth. 513 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 4: Because so many have stepped forward and refused to be ignored, 514 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 4: people are now listening. 515 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: And calls for changes such as the elimination of statutes 516 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: of limitations for reporting abuse are getting louder. 517 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 4: To all the victims out there, those who have come 518 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 4: forward and those who have not, we see you, We 519 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 4: wish you justice, we wished you healing, and most importantly, 520 00:30:50,840 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 4: we wish you peace. Onward and upward emua Ema. That's 521 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 4: our show for today. If you are a survivor of 522 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 4: clergy abuse, the advocacy group SNAP has resources that you 523 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 4: can turn to. Visit snaptwork dot org. That's SNAP Network 524 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 4: all one word dot org. 525 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion 526 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover, 527 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: find us on social media or email us at facingevilpod 528 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 2: at tenderfoot dot tv and one favor. If you haven't 529 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: done it already, please leave us a review and a 530 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: good rating. If you like what we do, your support 531 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 2: is always cherished. 532 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 4: Until next time, ah Loha. 533 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. 534 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: Jo is hosted by Russia Peccuerero and Avet Gentile. Matt 535 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio, 536 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In 537 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 538 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico. Original 539 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: music by makeup and vanity set. Find us on social 540 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: media or email us at Facing Evil pod at tenderfoot 541 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, 542 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 543 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.