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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of financial Heresy, where we talk

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Speaker 2: about how many works so that you can make more,

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Speaker 2: keep more, and give more. Today, I've got my good

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Speaker 2: friend Jason Hartman. He is a real estate expert. He's

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Speaker 2: been an investor in real estate for countless years here

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Speaker 2: all over the globe, traveled research spend, an expert voice

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Speaker 2: on investing in real estate for decades now and a

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Speaker 2: good friend of mine. Fantastic insights, and especially today when

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Speaker 2: there is so much fear, more people today than ever

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Speaker 2: in terms of the how long back, how far back

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Speaker 2: the survey goes are now saying that now is a

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Speaker 2: bad time to invest in real estate. And so with

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Speaker 2: that outlook, so much fear in the real estate markets

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Speaker 2: right now, we need to take a look at the

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Speaker 2: data see if that is unfounded, if that is you know,

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Speaker 2: if there's legitimate reason to be running away, to be selling,

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Speaker 2: if people should be buying staying on the sidelines. And

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Speaker 2: so I've invited my friend Jason Hartman on the show

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Speaker 2: today and we're going to go through all the real

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Speaker 2: data and give you the information you need to make

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Speaker 2: an educated decision about investing for yourself.

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Speaker 1: For the future. All right, Jason, Well, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: I'm really excited to talk here about real estate today,

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Speaker 2: so thanks for coming on.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 4: It's good to be here with all the heretics.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're discussing something that is one of the most

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Speaker 2: heretical or controversial topics today and for some background, for

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Speaker 2: the last couple of years, but increasingly recently, I've had

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Speaker 2: so many people telling me that they're waiting for the

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Speaker 2: crash to buy real estate, waiting for They're sitting on

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Speaker 2: the sidelines, waiting to buy until you know, they're sitting

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Speaker 2: in cash. And now people are starting to get scared

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Speaker 2: because they're like, hey, I could have afforded a twenty

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Speaker 2: five percent down payment a couple of years ago, and

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Speaker 2: now I don't even know if I can afford to

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Speaker 2: buy anything. So i'd like to I'd like to get

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Speaker 2: an insider's perspective on the real estate market, what you're

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Speaker 2: seeing in uh, you know, in the different areas. So

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Speaker 2: there's two different things I'd like to talk about. Number

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Speaker 2: one is personal residents and number two is investment properties

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Speaker 2: because those are going to be you know, a little

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Speaker 2: bit a little bit different. So in general, before we

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Speaker 2: dive into specifics. What is your outlook on nationwide averages

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Speaker 2: single family homes, personal residences for individuals?

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Speaker 1: Right now?

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Speaker 2: Should we be selling, should we be buying? Should we

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Speaker 2: be sitting on the sidelines.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a it's a it's the million dollar question,

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Speaker 4: and it is a bit of a complex question. So

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Speaker 4: let's let's peel back the layers of the young and

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Speaker 4: do legitimate analysis rather than clickbait and purveying, fear porn

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Speaker 4: and all of that stuff that you know, Look, it's

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Speaker 4: it's unfortunate, but that's the stuff that gets attention in

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Speaker 4: the media, right, all of the sensationalism that works, right,

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Speaker 4: you know, they've learned how to appeal to our psychology

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Speaker 4: and bait us into it. But you know they arrange

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Speaker 4: the environment to get people to lose money, okay, and

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Speaker 4: social media platforms that are designed to be addictive. Right,

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Speaker 4: So this is all unfortunate, but we've got to overcome

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Speaker 4: this stuff and not fall for the tricks.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So the reality is that in a country is large

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Speaker 4: and diversus the United States, there are many real estate markets.

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Speaker 4: There are over thirty one hundred counties in the US.

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Speaker 4: There are over nine thousand cities in the US. There

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Speaker 4: are over or about four hundred metropolitan statistical areas in

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Speaker 4: the US, so it's a huge country, very diverse, and

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Speaker 4: the old saying in real estate is definitely still true.

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Speaker 4: All real estate is local. But it's wise to break

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Speaker 4: this down into three types of real estate markets, linear markets,

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Speaker 4: cyclical markets, and hybrid markets. So if you're looking at

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Speaker 4: a chart of appreciation over time, a cyclical market, which

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Speaker 4: is the market almost everybody is paying attention to. This

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Speaker 4: is like the West coast of the United States, the

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Speaker 4: expense of Northeastern markets, and South Florida where I live. Okay,

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Speaker 4: those are cyclical markets. And if you look at a

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Speaker 4: chart of appreciation or depreciation, the chart looks like a

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Speaker 4: roller coaster. It's got glorious highs, it's got really ugly lows,

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Speaker 4: and it goes up and down, up and down. These

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Speaker 4: are the La Phoenix, yep, La where I grew up.

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Speaker 4: Phoenix is now a cyclical market where you've got booms

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Speaker 4: and bus Okay, these markets get all the attention because

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Speaker 4: there's a lot to talk about, there's a lot to

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Speaker 4: report on. They're sensational. But we like to invest in

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Speaker 4: linear markets that are kind of boring, honestly, you know,

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Speaker 4: just sort of chug along. They have minor ups and

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Speaker 4: downs over time, but they're not significant, and they have

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Speaker 4: very good cash flow. These are the conservative markets that

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Speaker 4: are really most of the country and most of the world,

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Speaker 4: but they don't get much attention because there's not much

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Speaker 4: to talk about. Hybrid markets, as the name would imply,

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Speaker 4: is in between the two. Those would be like Denver

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Speaker 4: and Austin. Austin might almost be considered a cyclical market now,

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Speaker 4: it was historically a hybrid market, and so that's what

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Speaker 4: we need to understand first. But secondly, let's talk about

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Speaker 4: the lack in effect. So, as you've reported, and as

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Speaker 4: I've been reporting for a long time, you know, we've

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Speaker 4: got all of these cheap mortgages out here, and this

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Speaker 4: is something that all of the people that tried to

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Speaker 4: forecast the housing market just didn't understand and didn't account for.

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Speaker 4: Most people think that when interest rates go up as

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Speaker 4: they have, you know historically, I mean, we're all blown

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Speaker 4: away by how quickly interest rates have increased, and most

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Speaker 4: people think myopically that that is going to destroy the

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Speaker 4: housing market. But I want to give everybody listening a

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Speaker 4: new perception of that, and it would be like this,

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Speaker 4: maybe comparing it more to the bond market, because the

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Speaker 4: bond market, you know, when interest rates go up, the

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Speaker 4: value of bonds goes down, and when bond values go up,

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Speaker 4: it tends to push interest rates down. Right, your listeners

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Speaker 4: understand that. Of course you understand that. And so what

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Speaker 4: happens with higher mortgage rates is, yes, that pushes housing

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Speaker 4: affordability down. And right now it's terrible. It's a four

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Speaker 4: decade low. So housing affordability has not been this bad

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Speaker 4: in forty years. It's terrible. So it's made it very

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Speaker 4: difficult for people to buy a house. But when and

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Speaker 4: when the cost of money goes up, it makes cheap

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Speaker 4: money more scarce and more special. So why is a

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Speaker 4: diamond more valuable than some sand? Right, Well, it's more

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Speaker 4: valuable because it's more rare. And so when money gets expensive,

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Speaker 4: the cheap money that's now scarce is very valuable. So

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Speaker 4: the holders of all the cheap mortgages, their asset literally

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Speaker 4: went up in value relative to them. Okay, so you know,

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Speaker 4: if I ask you, you know, do you own something

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Speaker 4: that is more valuable to you, Joe than it is

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Speaker 4: to other people? Like if you put whatever the thing is,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's a sentimental item, right, if you put it

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Speaker 4: on the market, say you put it on eBay and

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Speaker 4: tried to sell it, right, it would sell for its

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Speaker 4: market value, but you're probably not selling it because it's

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Speaker 4: more valuable to you and it is to anybody in the.

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Speaker 1: Market, right, right, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's a concept everybody can relate to. So the same

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Speaker 4: is true of houses with these cheap mortgages. That house

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Speaker 4: might sell for five hundred thousand dollars on the open market,

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Speaker 4: but to the people who own it, because it has

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Speaker 4: a cheap mortgage attached to it, it's worth six or

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Speaker 4: seven or eight hundred thousand dollars. And that's the comparison

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Speaker 4: people have failed to understand, okay, And it's a really,

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Speaker 4: really important comparison. It is the reason that we have

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Speaker 4: very high mortgage rates, which would normally cause all sorts

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Speaker 4: of economic distress, and it would cause people to be

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Speaker 4: motivated to put their houses on the market thinking the

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Speaker 4: value of their houses will go down.

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Speaker 3: When the opposite has happened.

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Speaker 4: All of the experts, virtually every expert, Fanny ma Freddiemac

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Speaker 4: Case Shiller, all of them predicted how values to decline

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Speaker 4: this year, and the opposite happened. Housing actually went up

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Speaker 4: in value even though the cost of money literally tripled.

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Speaker 4: So it's a it's an interesting time.

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Speaker 2: Very interesting, especially, like you said, it goes against the

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Speaker 2: the kind of the mainstream what would seem logical. It's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: if it costs more than it ever has to buy

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Speaker 2: a home, then you know, that's that seems like a bubble,

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Speaker 2: So prices should come down, and people can't afford new mortgages,

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Speaker 2: so house prices have to have to come down to

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Speaker 2: compensate for the increase in rates. I mean, last time

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Speaker 2: rates were this high, it was like two thousand. The

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Speaker 2: median home price was like what one hundred eighty nine

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Crazy.

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Speaker 2: But to your point, basically, when since people can't afford

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Speaker 2: to buy a new house right now, that just means

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Speaker 2: they can't afford to sell their current house.

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Speaker 4: That's the point, okay, Because if they were to sell

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Speaker 4: their current house, anything they could buy or rent would

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Speaker 4: cost them more money for probably a lesser house. So

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Speaker 4: they're staying put. They're hanging on no matter what they

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Speaker 4: are going to beg borrow and steal to keep these

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Speaker 4: cheap mortgages and the houses that happened to be attached

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Speaker 4: to them. So, Joe, you talked about prices and interest rates, right,

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Speaker 4: and obviously the cost of housing is a blend of

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Speaker 4: both of those things.

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Speaker 3: But it's also a.

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Speaker 4: Blend of inflation and incomes, right, and those ideally track

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Speaker 4: each other, not perfectly, but a little bit. So let's

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Speaker 4: go back to twenty eleven, when the median mortgage payment

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Speaker 4: in twenty eleven was one and nineteen dollars per month

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Speaker 4: and the median price house was two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 4: five thousand dollars a month. Well in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 4: ten years later, and you alluded to a very important

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Speaker 4: point that a lot of the experts are missing. It's

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Speaker 4: not that important what's happening today when sales activity is

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Speaker 4: down so much. What's important is what happened two years ago,

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Speaker 4: when sales activity was through the roof, when tens of

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Speaker 4: millions of people in the COVID era either purchased a

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Speaker 4: home or refinanced their existing home because they've got a

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Speaker 4: very comfortable mortgage that they're not giving up. So ten

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Speaker 4: years after twenty eleven, you moved to twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 4: and the median mortgage payment was actually eighteen dollars a

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Speaker 4: month lower in nominal dollars, meaning not adjusted for inflation

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Speaker 4: the name of the dollars. That's what nominal means, okay,

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Speaker 4: And so the payment was only one thousand and one

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Speaker 4: dollars versus ten years earlier, it was one thousand and

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Speaker 4: nineteen dollars, but adjusted for the official rate of inflation,

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Speaker 4: not the real rate of inflation, that payment only feed

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Speaker 4: bills like seven hundred and thirty dollars a month. So

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Speaker 4: the people ten years later, they literally stepped into a

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Speaker 4: dolore in a time machine like in Back to the Future. Okay,

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Speaker 4: they traveled back in time. They got the same nominal

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Speaker 4: payment essentially that people got ten years earlier, but inflation

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Speaker 4: still affected them and debased the value of that monthly

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Speaker 4: payment and made it feel cheaper. So their payment in

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Speaker 4: real dollars is literally two hundred and seventy dollars a month,

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Speaker 4: or two hundred and eighty dollars a month less expensive

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Speaker 4: than it was ten years earlier. Now, let's also take

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Speaker 4: a look at the price of the house. Okay, the

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Speaker 4: median house price in twenty twenty one was just about

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Speaker 4: four hundred thousand dollars, but adjusted for the official rate

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Speaker 4: of inflation, which is highly understated due to waiting substitution

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Speaker 4: and donic indexing, which we I'm sure you've taught you listeners,

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Speaker 4: the real price of that house, according to the official

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Speaker 4: CPI or the cp lies I like to call it,

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Speaker 4: is two hundred and ninety thousand dollars. So yes, it

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Speaker 4: was cheaper ten years earlier at two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 4: five thousand dollars, but the gap wasn't nearly as large

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Speaker 4: as most people would think when you adjust for inflation. Now,

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Speaker 4: if you adjust for the real rate of inflation, it's

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Speaker 4: much much cheaper because inflation is understated by the CPI.

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Speaker 3: So you know, this.

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Speaker 4: Real payment per month and the real price of that

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Speaker 4: house would be considerably less. I don't have you know,

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Speaker 4: I don't have numbers for that, because it depends what

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Speaker 4: your opinion of the real rate of inflation is. But

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Speaker 4: I would argue that generally it's pretty much double whatever

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Speaker 4: they're going to tell you. Okay, so we're almost double yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, absolutely, well that's that's insane. Didn't I did

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Speaker 2: not realize that that ten year gap from twenty eleven

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Speaker 2: to twenty twenty one in real terms, that it actually

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Speaker 2: went down like that. And it's important because you know,

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Speaker 2: somebody may look at that and say, Okay, well that

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Speaker 2: was two years ago. Things are much different now, so

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Speaker 2: things are going to crash, But it's like, no, remember,

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Speaker 2: it's important what happened then because you had a good

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Speaker 2: amount of future purchases brought forward into the present as

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Speaker 2: a result of that. And so yes, it's extremely predictable

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Speaker 2: that right now sales volume is at basically zero because

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Speaker 2: everybody who is going to buy in the next five

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Speaker 2: to ten years looking at twenty twenty forward, bought in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. It was like all

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Speaker 2: of that demand got brought forward into the presence. So

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Speaker 2: you would expect that there would be no more purchases

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Speaker 2: for the next couple of years, especially with prices doing

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Speaker 2: what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, if you listen to realtors, anybody who profits from

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Speaker 4: a real estate transaction or a mortgage transaction, they are

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Speaker 4: singing the blues. It's really tough for them right now

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Speaker 4: because you know, there's about one point five million realtors,

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Speaker 4: meaning member of the National Association of Realtors, right, which

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Speaker 4: is the biggest trade organization in the world. There's about

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Speaker 4: one point five million of them, which already that market

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Speaker 4: was highly overstaffed. But then you take and you reduce

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Speaker 4: the volume by fifteen to thirty percent, depending on the market,

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Speaker 4: and wow, that is a contraction, and that is really

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Speaker 4: really causing a lot of desperation. So a lot of

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Speaker 4: the bad news about the real estate market is coming

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Speaker 4: from the realtor industry and the mortgage volume. When you

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Speaker 4: triple the cost of money, I mean, virtually no one

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Speaker 4: is refinancing, right when we have this giant boom where

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Speaker 4: the whole mortgage industry expanded dramatically during the COVID era

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Speaker 4: to try and meet the needs of the incredibly low rates.

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Speaker 4: So when you have a centrally managed economy, you have

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Speaker 4: too many whipsaw effects right where it really rather than

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Speaker 4: letting market forces dictate the cost of money, which I

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Speaker 4: think is the way it should work. But you know,

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Speaker 4: we have what we have. We have a centrally planned

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Speaker 4: economy and Jerome Powell manages it right, and so you

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Speaker 4: know you're going to get these distortions and dysfunctions because

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Speaker 4: of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that's where the boom bust effect comes from.

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Speaker 1: That's the source.

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Speaker 4: So all which, by the way, is interesting because back

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Speaker 4: in nineteen thirteen when the FED was created, that was

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Speaker 4: one of the things they claimed they would solve right

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Speaker 4: Yet and years later we had a huge recession in

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Speaker 4: the twenties. Then we had a great depression in night

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Speaker 4: starting in nineteen twenty nine.

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Speaker 3: So they have not done their mandate right.

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Speaker 2: Well, they fixed the panics and the bank runs, which

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Speaker 2: were local boom bust cycles, but they did that by

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Speaker 2: centralizing it and scaling it up to the entire nations.

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Speaker 1: So not exactly a better situation now.

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Speaker 2: All right, So a couple of things. One thing happened

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Speaker 2: over the last couple of years that has really never

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Speaker 2: happened before, and that was massive institutions stepped into single

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Speaker 2: family home buying. So you had hedge funds. You had

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Speaker 2: institutions coming in and buying up entire neighborhoods, like a

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Speaker 2: developer would develop a neighborhood and hedge fund would just

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Speaker 2: buy up the whole thing. And that that wasn't happening

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and four, thousand and five thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: That's something that's relatively new. And so number one, are

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Speaker 2: those institutions about to you know, go, were they just

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Speaker 2: buying out of FOMO and they're about to They're about

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Speaker 2: to implode and all that real estate is going to

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Speaker 2: hit them, hit the markets or are they still buying

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Speaker 2: or did they see something a little bit longer term,

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Speaker 2: you know, on the horizon that they were that they

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Speaker 2: were investing for.

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Speaker 1: Here. What's your take on institutional buying of single family homes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question, and presidential candidate RFK has

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Speaker 4: had a lot to say about that, but you know,

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Speaker 4: this is largely a false, you know, false comparison that

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Speaker 4: he's making, right, because yes, there's this fear that all

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Speaker 4: the institutional buyers are buying up all the single family

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Speaker 4: homes in America. And you're right, they are a bigger

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Speaker 4: player than they've ever been. I mean, you mentioned in

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Speaker 4: the two thousands, but go back in the nineties the eighties,

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Speaker 4: I mean, you just didn't have this right. Institutional investors

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Speaker 4: were buying office buildings, shopping centers, shopping malls, and big

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Speaker 4: apartment complexes. They weren't buying single family homes. But they

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Speaker 4: got really interested in single family homes. Coming out of

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Speaker 4: the Great Recession, rightfully, so they made a lot of

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Speaker 4: money in that business and I think are going to

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Speaker 4: continue to do well in it. But there's nearly twenty

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Speaker 4: million single family homes owned by mom and pop investors

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Speaker 4: that are rental properties, and the institutional players are becoming

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Speaker 4: a bigger force in that market. But in the overall

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Speaker 4: scheme of things, with one hundred and forty million housing

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Speaker 4: units in the United States total, right, they're really just

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Speaker 4: not a real force yet. Okay, this is a you know,

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Speaker 4: really a drop in the bucket. Okay, Yes, they're bigger

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Speaker 4: than they've ever been, but they've got an awfully long

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Speaker 4: way to go before they own one hundred and forty

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Speaker 4: million units. Okay, so this is just not a big number.

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Speaker 4: It's not a big force. But there are some interesting

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Speaker 4: effects that are happening because of this number one. And

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Speaker 4: if anybody's rented an apartment from the big institutional landlord,

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Speaker 4: they know this. Institutional landlords are far now I'm looking

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Speaker 4: at it from an investor perspective, not a renter perspective here, Okay,

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Speaker 4: they are far better at raising rents and optimizing their

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Speaker 4: portfolio because use all sorts of rent adjustments software to

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Speaker 4: do this, and they just constantly want to push the yield,

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Speaker 4: push the yield, so they are causing rents to go up. Okay,

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Speaker 4: and that's actually going to benefit the mom and pop

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Speaker 4: single family home investors because they're setting higher comps for

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Speaker 4: rents single family home. Mom and pop investors in single

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Speaker 4: family homes are not very good at raising rents at all.

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Speaker 4: They tend to get kind of lazy and say, eh,

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Speaker 4: you know, they've been a good tenant, I'm not going

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Speaker 4: to raise their rent when you know, we tell our investors, sorry, renters,

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Speaker 4: you're not going to like me for this, but you know,

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Speaker 4: we work with investors so and I'm an investor, so

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Speaker 4: you know we tell them to try and raise the

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Speaker 4: rents about four percent annually, right, And you know, if

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Speaker 4: you look at the past couple of years, that would

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Speaker 4: have been a cheap rent increase. You should have raised

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Speaker 4: it much more than that. But you know, over time,

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Speaker 4: on average four percent per year, right, That's that's about

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Speaker 4: you know, the going target, and institutional investors are are

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Speaker 4: far better at optimizing higher rents.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I think one other overlooked factor in why they are

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Speaker 2: so much better is because number one they're they're they're

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Speaker 2: going to be doing that. But number two, you have

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Speaker 2: to you have to do it in a sustainable way

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Speaker 2: to be able to keep on doing it in the

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Speaker 2: long term, which means you have to add value. So

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Speaker 2: when you look at the big properties that are owned

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Speaker 2: by the big institutions, they're much better places to live

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Speaker 2: in as a renter. Then you know, your your duplex

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Speaker 2: or your your quad plex that's owned by you know, uh,

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Speaker 2: somebody living down the street. You've got the amenities, you've

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Speaker 2: got better uh you know, payment methods, you've got better

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Speaker 2: response to issues. Bet like there, It's it's as a renter,

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Speaker 2: it's uh, if if you're going to be living in

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Speaker 2: a place that is going to be in be able

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Speaker 2: to increase the rent like that consistently, then typically they're

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Speaker 2: going to be doing things that will also bring demand

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Speaker 2: in for that higher rent.

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Speaker 1: And so you know it's well, I name.

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Speaker 4: The economy of marketing. You know, hundreds of units at

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Speaker 4: the price of one, so you know, they've got scale

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Speaker 4: and systems and all kinds of things. I'm just kind

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Speaker 4: of pointing out that the the mom and pop investors

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Speaker 4: actually benefit by writing on their coattails.

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Speaker 1: Hm that makes sense. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So so basically you're saying that institutions are, you know,

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Speaker 2: coming into the market.

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Speaker 1: It's bigger than it's ever been. It's a but it's

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Speaker 1: not big in terms of uh.

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Speaker 4: In terms of compared to the overall market. It's a

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Speaker 4: drop in.

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Speaker 2: The bucket, and there are some influences that it has

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Speaker 2: on the rest of the real estate market. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that the properties that institutions are buying are for

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Speaker 2: the most part, they're they're off the market forever or

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Speaker 2: do you see like a Zillo apocalypse or something like

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Speaker 2: that where giant numbers of properties just get dumped all

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Speaker 2: at once.

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Speaker 4: No, I think, you know, I think you know, they'll

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Speaker 4: of course, uh not be loyal to an asset class.

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Speaker 4: They're going to go where the money is right. That's

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Speaker 4: their mandate. But I don't think that they would ever

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Speaker 4: want to dump properties on the market because they'll be

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Speaker 4: shooting themselves in the foot, right, So you know that's

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Speaker 4: not I mean, you know, if you saw the movie

400
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Speaker 4: Margin Call, which by the way, is an excellent movie.

401
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 4: It's better than the Big Short, you know, you see

402
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Speaker 4: how and you know if you watch the show Billions,

403
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Speaker 4: for example, which also is very good.

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Speaker 3: Except for season six it was terrible, but the others

405
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Speaker 3: were good.

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Speaker 4: You see, how you know people who trade equities, you know,

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Speaker 4: in stocks and bonds, how they you know, sell things slowly.

408
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Speaker 4: They sell things from offshore accounts, or they buy them.

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Speaker 4: You know, they don't. They want to kind of keep

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Speaker 4: things quiet and on the down low. So you know,

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Speaker 4: they understand this. I mean, they're not going to dump

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Speaker 4: properties on the market because it would not be good

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Speaker 4: for them, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: What about let's go to the opposite extreme unsophisticated new investors.

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Speaker 2: I'm specifically referring to airbnb properties. This is something that

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Speaker 2: has been circulating online a lot recently, people saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're going to have an airbnb apocalypse. I've seen maps

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Speaker 2: that are just ridiculous that show dots. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: a state, it's a picture of a state. I've got

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Speaker 2: a dot everywhere there's an Airbnb property, and it makes

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Speaker 2: it look like there's so many of them. But it's

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Speaker 2: like a dot is like the size of an entire

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Speaker 2: city on that side of the map. So what is

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Speaker 2: your view of the airbnb apocalypse? Is that overblown? Is

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Speaker 2: that going to happen. What's your viewpoint there.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is a lot of fake news, and I'll

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Speaker 4: tell you why. You know, there is a well known

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Speaker 4: YouTuber who's doing a great job at marketing himself. I've

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Speaker 4: invited him on my show many times. He has accepted

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Speaker 4: a couple of times, but somehow the interview never happens. Okay,

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Speaker 4: and you know, he he does have some good data.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to give him credit for that, but he

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Speaker 4: does he makes some big leaps in logic. Okay, And

435
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 4: let me talk about inventory for a moment before I

436
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 4: answer that, because I've got to kind of tee it

437
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: up with some context. So right now, we have about

438
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: five hundred and thirty thousand homes on the market in

439
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 4: the United States. Keep in mind, we have one hundred

440
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 4: and forty million housing units, so there's no inventory to

441
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 4: speak of. Okay, inventory is extremely low because everybody's hanging

442
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 4: on to their very cheap mortgages.

443
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: A normal market.

444
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: Would be about one point two million homes for sale,

445
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: so that represents the shortage of about seven hundred thousand homes. Now,

446
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 4: keep in mind, it depends where you get your statistics

447
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 4: on this, because different groups do this differently. For example,

448
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 4: the National Association of Realtors. In their stats, they include

449
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 4: pending and contingent sales as active inventory. I don't like that,

450
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 4: so I don't use their stats. But it's okay if

451
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 4: you use their stats as long as you keep making

452
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 4: apples to apples comparisons. So if you want to compare

453
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: NAR's number today to seven years ago, NAR's same number,

454
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 4: that's fine. Okay, The percentages and the ratios will be

455
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 4: about the same. Okay, that's the importance. Yeah, right, But

456
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 4: basically for actual active listings where you can go buy

457
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 4: the house today, it's not contingent, it's not pending, it's

458
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: actually for sale. You've got a shortage of about seven

459
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 4: hundred thousand homes.

460
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: Okay. So if you took all of.

461
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 4: The one million or so Airbnb properties and they started

462
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 4: to come on the market, and they have started to

463
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: come on the market, by the way, Okay, over the

464
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 4: past year they have come on the market and they've

465
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 4: sold and or they've re rented on is to normal

466
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 4: long term rentals, right number one. These are properties that

467
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 4: don't make sense as long term rental properties. I help

468
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 4: people buy properties nationwide, help people invest and build portfolios

469
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 4: of single family homes in many different markets that we

470
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: like and recommend, but we only like cheap entry level

471
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: properties in linear markets. We don't recommend you know, six hundred,

472
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 4: eight hundred thousand or a million plus homes. A lot

473
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 4: of the Airbnb properties are those types of homes. So

474
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: first of all, you've got a segment by market, you've

475
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 4: got a segment by product type, you've got a segment

476
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 4: by price. Before you can really understand what's going on here.

477
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: But we're just talking raw numbers, so this is a

478
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: very broad conversation. So if we've got a shortage of

479
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: seven hundred thousand homes right now, to just be at

480
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: a normal market, not a bad market, just a normal market,

481
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 4: one point two million homes for sale, right, that would

482
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: represent you know, somewhere around six months of supply of inventory,

483
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 4: give or take. Well if every one of those. Now,

484
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 4: by the way, those stats are questionable also, okay, but

485
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 4: let's just assume there are a million Airbnb properties that

486
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 4: are struggling, right because we do have an Airbnb bust,

487
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 4: no question about it.

488
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: And I can address more on that in a moment.

489
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 4: Say they all came on the market at once today,

490
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 4: So now we'd have one point five million homes for sale,

491
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: we would definitely have a housing glut. So here's a

492
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: good metaphor. Everybody just pause for a moment, and I

493
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: want you to visualize your kitchen sink in your house,

494
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 4: right your kitchen sink. Everybody's got a kitchen sink, So

495
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: visualize it for a minute. Mine stainless steel. Okay, so

496
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: I'm visualizing my kitchen sink. The faucet represents new inventory

497
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 4: coming onto the market right now, and for a few

498
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: years now, it's been a trickle just you know, some

499
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: listings coming onto the market, not very many at all.

500
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: And the water in the sink represents the existing inventory

501
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: if it were full. If the sink were full, that

502
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 4: would be a normal mark at one point two million homes. Okay,

503
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: right now, it's about forty percent, So there's some water

504
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 4: in the sink, about forty percent full. The drain represents

505
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: the demand side, or the absorption rate the buyer's buying homes.

506
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: So right now the drain is a little bit clogged

507
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 4: because demand is down. Housing affordability is the lowest it's

508
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 4: been in four decades. It's very tough for people to

509
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 4: buy a new house right now. So the drain is

510
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: about twenty percent clogged. During the COVID era, when money

511
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: was one third the cost it is today, you know,

512
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: give or take. You know, the drain was like open

513
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: and they drilled another drain in the sink. There were

514
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 4: two drains.

515
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: Okay.

516
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: Everything was selling with multiple offers above list price. So

517
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 4: the situation we've got now is far from even a

518
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 4: normal market.

519
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: Now.

520
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 4: A bad market, by contrast, would be the is overflowing.

521
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 4: The water is overflowing. The drain is plugged and the

522
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 4: faucet is running full blast and the water is just

523
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 4: overflowing onto the counter and onto the floor. So that's

524
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: a bad market. So we are far from that now.

525
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: No one million airbnbs, if there are even that many,

526
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: because like some of the numbers I have are like

527
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 4: six hundred and fifty thousand, whatever, let's just go with

528
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: a million, give them that, Okay. They never decide to

529
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: come on the market the same day. They're all in

530
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: different areas, they're all in different price ranges. Some are condos,

531
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: some are single family homes, and all of these owners

532
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: of those properties have totally different situations. In fact, usually

533
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: a large percentage of the housing stock is a second

534
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 4: home stock anyway. Right, these are people that were wealthy

535
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: enough and not really wealthy, just you know, middle class.

536
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 4: A lot of people have a second home. Okay, they're

537
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: not selling their second home. They just stuck it on

538
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: Airbnb because when that was a thing and it was

539
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: going really well, they could make some extra income.

540
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: They're not dependent on it.

541
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: They kept their second home for years before that and

542
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 4: never put it on Airbnb, right, and just had a

543
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: second home. So you know, there are many different situations.

544
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: Some will sell them, some will rent them, some will

545
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: just keep them. Right. You know, there's a whole bunch

546
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: of complex things that go on in real market dynamics

547
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: that in a sensationalized, you know, fear porn purveying video

548
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 4: that gets a lot of clicks on YouTube.

549
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: He doesn't want to talk about.

550
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: The airbnb thing.

551
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 2: Is so funny to me because well, first of all,

552
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: this is on the ground kind of anecdotal information, so

553
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: it's not.

554
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: It's not statistical.

555
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: But the airbnb investors that I know are always trying

556
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: to make sure that if the worst case scenario happens,

557
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: they could still rent the place out long term.

558
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: So they're trying to get can't it won't make sense usually.

559
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that's probably the case them.

560
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 4: It's just not going to be very good compared to

561
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 4: an investment something would buy through my network, right right exactly.

562
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 2: Yes, this is, like I said, like anecdotal information of

563
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: like like they're saying, Okay, I'm gonna my plan is

564
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: rented out on Airbnb, but if the economy crashes, then

565
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: I'll at least be able to break even if I

566
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: if I rent it out, So they're not. My point

567
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: is I don't think those people are not going to

568
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: get forced out. Number one, and then number two, A

569
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: lot of the Airbnb listings are casidas or open bedrooms.

570
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: It's like that's that's not going to become a distressed sale.

571
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: Exactly, good point. Good point.

572
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: You know they're an accessory dwelling unit, a casida, or

573
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 4: just an extra bedroom. I mean, I know a lady

574
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 4: who loves to have Airbnb guests, right and she rents

575
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 4: out her extra bedrooms.

576
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 2: Or or a big property that's got three walls put up,

577
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: and so it's three Airbnb listings, but it's actually one house.

578
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: Right exactly, very good point.

579
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: You know, well that's uh, dude, Joe.

580
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 4: Though, before we move on, let me just say one

581
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 4: thing about Airbnb though, Okay, and I have been saying

582
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: this since twenty twelve, so I've been saying this for

583
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 4: eleven years. I've been beating this drum. We were never

584
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: recommending airbnb properties in any significant way. We had one

585
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 4: little market in Florida that we dabbled in them, and

586
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 4: you know, a few of our clients bought them, but

587
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 4: it was never a thing for us. We always recommended people,

588
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 4: by long term buy and hold rental properties that made sense,

589
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: entry level housing that just had super high demand. Economy

590
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 4: going good people are moving up, that's their first home,

591
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: they rent it from you. Economy bad, people moving down,

592
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 4: that's their home. That's going to be their safety net.

593
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: They're going to rent it from you. Right, This entry

594
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 4: level home is always in demand, the bread and butter housing. Okay,

595
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: But I always said for the last eleven or even

596
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: twelve years that Airbnb has never been through a real recession.

597
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: And if you look at the number of what I

598
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 4: call non primary beds in the world that has expanded

599
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 4: so dramatically. I mean, at the same time we had

600
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 4: the rise of Airbnb, hotels were still building, they were

601
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 4: adding rooms. New hotels were opening lots of them, and

602
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: so around the world we had this massive growth in

603
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 4: non primary beds. I mean, my primary bed is here

604
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 4: in my house, right, but sometimes I sleep in hotels

605
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: or airbnbs or whatever. And what's funny about it is,

606
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: did anybody happen to notice the rise of all these

607
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: new mattress companies?

608
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: Right?

609
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: You know where they come from?

610
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: Where did Casper tough to needle Purple? All these mattress

611
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 4: companies came out of the blue like that, you know, right? Yeah,

612
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 4: so that went with the airbnb trend.

613
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: Interesting, I'm going to have to think about that for

614
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: a while. That's that's good with the airbnb thing too.

615
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: This is something that I've experienced for about two years.

616
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: It was exciting and since like maybe twenty fifteen, I

617
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: would say that my experiences with hotels, I've had probably

618
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: one bad experience for every thirty good experiences. My experiences

619
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 2: with airbnbs and vrbos, I've had probably one good experience

620
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: for every twenty bad experiences.

621
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: And they cost more, and so I don't.

622
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: Really rent them. Yeah, I just stay at hotels mostly.

623
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like anything, I think that when problems arise,

624
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: situations get tough. Economic times get hard. The best players,

625
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: the people who do it the best will will win.

626
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: They'll survive, and they'll come out the other side even stronger.

627
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: They'll take more market share. But for the most part,

628
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 2: it's like I think there was a wave here where

629
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 2: there were a lot of people doing it, and now, like,

630
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: at least personally in almost everybody I know would rather

631
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 2: stay at a nice hotel for less than a bad airbnb, right,

632
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: you know.

633
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 4: It just depends on circumstances. I mean, they certainly have

634
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 4: a place in the market for big families, for group events, whatever,

635
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: but you know, buy and large hotels just know how

636
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 4: to do it better.

637
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay.

638
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: Now, one of the other like you were talking about

639
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: fear porn things that just blow up, is people talking

640
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: about like the main argument that I guess you and

641
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 2: I've been talking about a lot here is that you've

642
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: got a fixed payment for the next thirty years and

643
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: it's way cheaper than anything else that you have the

644
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: option for today. But there are some people saying, well,

645
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 2: that's not true because taxes and PMI adjustments, and I've

646
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 2: seen some people say, hey, my mortgage payment increased by

647
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: you know, six hundred and seven hundred dollars a month

648
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: this year because of you know, tax and PMI.

649
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 4: Is that is that another you don't mean PMI, you

650
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: mean just regular insurance, homeowners insurance, right.

651
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, sorry, yeah, insurance adjustments upwards. So what is

652
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: that another thing that's just overblown or is that something

653
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: that could you know, spill over and snowball out of

654
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: control and these people who think they have low fixed

655
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: payment in the future are going to have a much

656
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 2: higher payment.

657
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, no, that is a real thing. And you know,

658
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 4: people are under pressure. And you know, one of the

659
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 4: other real things that we really didn't talk about, but

660
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 4: it is a real thing, is that the home is

661
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: actually quite affordable, but people are still getting squeezed in

662
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 4: all kinds of directions with credit card debt, student loan debt,

663
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 4: you know, auto loans, et cetera, et cetera. So I

664
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 4: I am not wearing a colored glasses. I know that

665
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 4: our economy is built on a house of cards, but

666
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 4: compared to what compared to every other economy is worse

667
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 4: off than we are.

668
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: Like look around the world. I mean, what show me

669
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: where it's.

670
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 4: Better, Like any major player in the world that you know,

671
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 4: you'd want to move to right, show me where it's better.

672
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 4: But so, yes, the answer to your question is definitely.

673
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 4: I mean, people are going to be pressured. But what

674
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 4: the economists don't really evaluate, and the housing forecasters don't

675
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 4: evaluate very well, is that people simply make adjustments, right.

676
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 4: They They sort of have this idea, Joe that like

677
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 4: the home buyer or the homeowner or the consumer is

678
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 4: like this fixed thing, and you know, housing affordability goes down, well,

679
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: then the housing market's going to crash because nobody's going

680
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 4: to buy a house. Well, that's not the way it works.

681
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 4: The way a market works is people adjust their expectations downward.

682
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 4: This is what inflation and bad fiscal and monetary policy

683
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 4: do to people. They lower the standard of living. Get

684
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 4: with it. That's just reality, right, And so I predicted

685
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 4: when interest rates were still very low. I remember doing

686
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 4: a speech. I had about eleven hundred people in the

687
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 4: room in Las Vegas. I was speaking at a conference

688
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 4: and I got up on stage and you know, I

689
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 4: got to get this recording out and show it on

690
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 4: my YouTube channel and played on my podcast because I

691
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 4: said that there would be a whole bunch of builder

692
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 4: cancelations that contracts would be canceled because people who bought home.

693
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 4: I said, interest rates are going to go up, and

694
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 4: people who bought homes and you know, had had to

695
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 4: wait six, seven, eight months or even longer for them

696
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 4: to be built. They qualified when they bought the house,

697
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 4: but then when rates went up, they didn't qualify, so

698
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: they had to cancel the contract because they couldn't afford

699
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 4: the house anymore and the lender wouldn't qualify them. But

700
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 4: that was not the That was not a real estate crash.

701
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 4: It was misinterpreted because what I also said at that

702
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 4: same speech is that these people would then adjust their

703
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 4: expectations downward and they would just buy a cheaper house

704
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 4: or continue to rent. It's still the same person occupying

705
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 4: a housing unit. Like, how do people not see this?

706
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't even have a degree in economics

707
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 4: and I understand this.

708
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: But it's not people just leaving the housing market. It's

709
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 2: occupying a different housing unit.

710
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, it's just you know, look what I

711
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 4: said on your show is you know, I was born

712
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 4: in Europe, Okay, and I go back there often, and

713
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 4: you look at the standard of living in European countries

714
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 4: and people live in little crappy apartments. Okay, they've just

715
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 4: accepted that that is their standard of living in the

716
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: United States. We've expected this higher standard of living and

717
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 4: you know what, we've had it. But guess what it's

718
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 4: going down? You know, play the violin. I know it's terrible.

719
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: I agree, we're not moving in the right direction. But

720
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 4: compared to what I mean, who's better off? We're going

721
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 4: to be the best off in this whole economic storm,

722
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 4: all the geopolitical problems we've got, you know, I mean,

723
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 4: the US is way better off than most countries. We

724
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 4: get to export our inflation more than anybody else does

725
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: because we have the reserve currency. And yes, I think

726
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 4: we're going to maintain that status for a very long time.

727
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 4: You know, there's nibbling at the edges, sure, the bricks,

728
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 4: this and that, but you know, these are all pretty

729
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 4: much dying countries. Okay, Like I mean, does anybody think

730
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 4: the future is in Russia, South Africa or Brazil?

731
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 3: Are you kidding? I mean some people do. They're out

732
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 3: of their mind.

733
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: Well, I also think that it's important to take a

734
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: look at these things and instead of feeling sorry for ourselves, say, okay, well,

735
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: let's say there are problems that are going to make

736
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: things economically challenging. The question is for who for savers?

737
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely for lenders? No, okay, So how do I get

738
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: on the right side of the fence. I've talked about

739
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: how we're entering into a at least ten, probably twenty

740
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: or thirty year inflationary cycle here, where inflation and rates

741
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: will be moving up for the next two to three decades.

742
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: You you have spoken about how to use that to

743
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: your advantage. So let's talk about that as the last

744
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: section here to focus on. There are things that are

745
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: benefited by inflation and things that are destroyed by inflation.

746
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 4: Absolutely. You know, many years ago I trade more to

747
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 4: strategy that I call inflation induced debt destruction. I know

748
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: that's a mouthful, inflation induced debt destruction. Say it three

749
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 4: times fast.

750
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: Anyway.

751
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 4: Basically, the idea here is that you know you want

752
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 4: to another strategy I have is called the ultimate investing equation. Okay,

753
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 4: So I like income property because you're buying a hard

754
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 4: asset that is really a group of packaged commodities. It's concrete, lumber, glass, steel, copper, wire,

755
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 4: petroleum products, energy, labor, okay, and other things too. Okay,

756
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 4: and these things are indexed really well to inflation. So

757
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 4: if you believe the future is inflationary, you know, real

758
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 4: estate has always been a great hedge against inflation. Everybody

759
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 4: will tell you that. Okay, it's not hard to see that,

760
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 4: but that's sort of the first level thinking view. There's

761
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 4: a whole nother thing under the surface that is even

762
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 4: better than that. So, you know, we are all familiar

763
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: with the metaphor of the iceberg, right. You know, you

764
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 4: see a little bit of above the water, most of

765
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 4: it's below the surface. And what's below the surface is

766
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 4: if you leverage your real estate, you get to take

767
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 4: advantage of what's called self liquidating debt. In other words,

768
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 4: when I buy properties, or when our clients buy properties,

769
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 4: they don't pay their own debts. They outsource the obligation

770
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: to people called tenants. The tenants pay the debt, and

771
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 4: ideally they give us a little extra every month called

772
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 4: positive cash flow. So essentially you have the tenant paying

773
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 4: the debt, but you also have another big, powerful force

774
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 4: paying the debt inflation, and so that's the inflation induced

775
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 4: debt destruction. Picture it this way. Say everybody listening goes

776
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 4: to their favorite website after years. Their second favorite website.

777
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: They go to Jasonhartman dot com and they click on

778
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 4: the properties page and they buy three properties. And to

779
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 4: buy those three properties, maybe the value is one point

780
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 4: two million dollars, maybe they buy four properties, whatever, and

781
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 4: they borrow one million dollars to buy those four properties,

782
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 4: and they get their mortgage statements when they close, and

783
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 4: it says, hey, add it all up on those four properties,

784
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: you owe one million dollars.

785
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 3: Well, let's just assume.

786
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 4: For argument's sake, they were interest only loans. They're not

787
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 4: going to be they're going to be anortized loans, but

788
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 4: just for simplicity, let's call them interest only. Well, in

789
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 4: five years, because they pay no principle, they would still

790
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 4: owe one million dollars. But if inflation happens over the

791
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 4: course of that five years, say there's in five years,

792
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 4: there's you know, probably pretty conservative, there's twenty to thirty

793
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 4: percent inflation in that time period, Okay, maybe even more. Well,

794
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: inflation essentially just literally paid off two hundred to three

795
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars of that million. So on paper, the

796
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 4: statement still says you owe a million dollars. But because

797
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: inflation has debased the value of the million dollars you

798
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 4: really only owe in that example, seven hundred thousand dollars

799
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 4: because inflation paid off three hundred thousand dollars of the debt. Now,

800
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 4: if you think this is some far flung strategy, it's not.

801
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 4: It's the exact same strategy our US government uses with

802
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: the countries it owes money to take. Look at the

803
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 4: sovereign debt, right, Look at China. For example, we owe

804
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 4: about a trillion dollars to China. We have the reserve

805
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 4: currency of the world. We inflate the value of it

806
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 4: so it's worth less. Right, And that means if we

807
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 4: have ten percent inflation in the course of a year

808
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 4: or two years or whatever, we just got one hundred

809
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 4: billion dollars of our debt essentially paid off. Now everybody

810
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 4: listening is going to say, well, Jason, of course the

811
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 4: Chinese they have economists too, They understand this. Of course

812
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 4: they do what can they do, right, they want to

813
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 4: sell their products, We're going to buy them in dollars. Okay,

814
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 4: they can use their dollars to come back here and

815
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 4: buy something we have, right, they can buy.

816
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 3: Our real estate.

817
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 4: Hey, guess what they seem to be doing a lot

818
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 4: of that, so you know they understand the game right,

819
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: or they can buy oil with it because you know,

820
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 4: we do other reserve currency.

821
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: Even though the.

822
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 4: Bricks are you know, nibbling at that. That's inflation induced

823
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 4: debt destruction, and it is an incredibly powerful strategy. Remember,

824
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 4: inflation transfers wealth from lenders to borrowers, and that is

825
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: an incredibly powerful thing. It's the hidden wealth creator with

826
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 4: income property. Now, look, if there was another asset like

827
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: precious metals or stocks or bonds, and a bond does

828
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 4: the complete opposite of that. By the way, it impoverishes

829
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 4: you because you are the lender when you own a bond. Okay,

830
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 4: if there was another vehicle, I would recommend that vehicle.

831
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 4: But real estate has such special characteristics that you just

832
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 4: can't do it with other things. There's one that's pretty good, though,

833
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 4: and I got to mention it because that plan I

834
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 4: outlined is essentially mimicking what became popular in the nineteen eighties.

835
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 4: And you heard this phrase a lot. It was called

836
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 4: the LBO or the leveraged buyout, and so all these

837
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 4: Wall Street tycoons were doing leveraged buyouts. They still do

838
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 4: them today. Okay, private equity groups they're It's used all

839
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 4: the time the LBO. It's a very common strategy. And

840
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 4: here's what it is. You find a company that you

841
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 4: want to buy. You identify this company, and you make

842
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 4: an offer to buy it, and you saddle it with

843
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 4: massive amounts of debt, and then you delegate the responsibility

844
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 4: of the debt repayment to the company you just acquired,

845
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 4: so your debt becomes self liquidating debt.

846
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: Right.

847
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 4: You know, I would hate debt if I had to

848
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: pay it myself. But when I can have debt and

849
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 4: get someone else to pay it, if I can delegate

850
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 4: that responsibility to a renter, that's a fantastic strategy.

851
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: It's another example of that is what Apple is doing

852
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: right now, which is they're leveraged buying out themselves, taking

853
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 2: on a bunch of debt, doing share buybacks with that debt,

854
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 2: which is another example you know of the same exact thing,

855
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: which is using debt to purchase something that will produce

856
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: the income to pay the debt. And what you're talking

857
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 2: about with real estate and how money today Since nineteen thirteen,

858
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: money today is worth more than it is in the future.

859
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 2: Money in the future will always be worth less than

860
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: it is today over a long I.

861
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 4: Think we can pretty much count on that. Now, Look,

862
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 4: if we have deflation, then it goes the opposite way. Okay,

863
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 4: but the likelihood of deflation considering that we have thirty

864
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 4: three trillion dollars in debt, and debt is inflationary, and

865
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 4: we have all of these unfunded mandates and unfunded entitlements

866
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 4: coming in the next ten years, which some have estimated

867
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 4: as much as two hundred and twenty trillion dollars. There's Look,

868
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: the federal government only takes in about four trillion a year.

869
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 4: How will we ever pay that. The only way to

870
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 4: pay that is to print fake money, fiot money out

871
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 4: of thin air.

872
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there may be short time horizons, which is you

873
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: know something that I think is coming soon where prices dip,

874
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: so we get very short term maybe even intense deflation,

875
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 2: But the economic pain that that causes for the people

876
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: who are in control is so severe that they will

877
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: opt to stop that pain through printing, and the long

878
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: term the long term result of that is inflation. So

879
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: that makes that makes a lot of sense. Well, I

880
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: could talk to you forever. I want to be respectful

881
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: of your time here, and so you have a great

882
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 2: YouTube channel, you're everywhere. Your YouTube channel and your website

883
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 2: are linked in the show notes below for anybody listening.

884
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: Can you list those out?

885
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, my website, my main website is Jasonhartman dot com.

886
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 4: My podcast is on all the podcast platforms. Just type

887
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 4: Jason Hartman and that's h A R T M A N.

888
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 4: And on YouTube tube you can find me. Jason Hartman

889
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: real Estate is the channel there. So just take advantage

890
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 4: of our free content, and you know we'd love to

891
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 4: get you involved. Get on our mailing list. We have

892
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 4: great newsletters we send out with lots of charts and

893
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 4: graphs and you know, very information content heavy stuff, so

894
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 4: check it all out.

895
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Jason.

896
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: That was a lot of fantastic information and we'll talk

897
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: to you and soon.

898
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 3: Happy investing.