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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back George Nor with you. Mark go,

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Speaker 1: we're with us and we are talking about his latest

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Speaker 1: work and end Upside Down Living, Mark tell us about

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Speaker 1: that book. So the book is centered around a single question.

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Speaker 1: My first book, and Upside Down'm Thinking, was centered around

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Speaker 1: the question does the brain create consciousness? And I argue, no,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. Second book is well, if we assume that

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Speaker 1: the brain does not create consciousness, how would we live?

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Speaker 1: And the way I phrase it in the book is

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Speaker 1: what is the overall intention of your life? And how

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Speaker 1: can we create an intention for our lives that actually

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Speaker 1: aligns with what science is telling us about the nature

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Speaker 1: of reality. You talk about awakening and enlightenment. Explain that

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Speaker 1: these are terms that have been used for very long

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Speaker 1: time in many traditions. And the way I think about

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Speaker 1: these ideas is that we in the human bodies effectively

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Speaker 1: have a filter to this broader reality where whirlpools in

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Speaker 1: the stream and we're sort of blocked off from the

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Speaker 1: rest of the stream, the rest of our true nature

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Speaker 1: by being in a body, and the awakening or enlightenment

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Speaker 1: process is basically undoing whatever filters are blocking us from

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Speaker 1: our true nature. Is it easy to get into that

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Speaker 1: mode or is it difficult? Well, it seems as a

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Speaker 1: human being it can be difficult for some people because

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Speaker 1: there's so much conditioning in this world. We are not

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Speaker 1: taught about many of the ideas that we're discussing today

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Speaker 1: in education system. So I think right now in human

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Speaker 1: society it can be difficult. But I think there are

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Speaker 1: more and more cases of people that are sort of

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Speaker 1: waking up to their true nature. Whether it's through a

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Speaker 1: meditation experience. For some people it's a psychedelic experience. A

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Speaker 1: near death experience seems to do it overnight for people

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Speaker 1: because they viscerally experience this broader reality. And when people

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Speaker 1: have these more personal accounts where they feel it themselves,

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Speaker 1: they tend to wake up quickly. Whereas in my case

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Speaker 1: it was really an intellectual exploration that over time has

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Speaker 1: become more experiential as I've meditated more. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: have like a near death experience where overnight there was

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Speaker 1: an awakening for me. It's been much more gradual. Mark

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Speaker 1: tell me about the power of consciousness exactly what is

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Speaker 1: it used for? How can it enhance our life. Well,

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Speaker 1: since consciousness is the basis of all reality under this

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Speaker 1: idea that we've been discussing, then consciousness is incredibly powerful

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Speaker 1: and it can be used for really good things or

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Speaker 1: for really detrimental things. And one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I talk about in my new book is the ways

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Speaker 1: in which we can use our consciousness to help shift

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Speaker 1: reality in a positive way for everyone, which I think

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Speaker 1: is really critical right now, especially given all that's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world. And I think one of the key

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Speaker 1: ideas there is the notion of unity, the idea that

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Speaker 1: we are individual whirlpools at some level, but at another

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Speaker 1: level we are interconnected in the same stream of consciousness.

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Speaker 1: So I like to point back to the life review

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Speaker 1: phenomenon in the near death experience. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: most impactful things I've learned about, where a person relives

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Speaker 1: his or her whole life in a flash at a

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Speaker 1: time when their brain is barely functional or completely off,

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Speaker 1: and they experience how they treated people through the eyes

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Speaker 1: of the people they impacted. And for my podcast Where

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Speaker 1: Is My Mind, I interviewed Daniel Brinkley, who has had

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Speaker 1: four near death experience great each time having a life

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Speaker 1: review so he relived many other things he did, which,

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Speaker 1: in his case, some of them were not very pleasant.

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Speaker 1: Because he fought in Vietnam. He was a tough guy.

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Speaker 1: He told me that he was vicious in combat, and

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Speaker 1: he felt the deaths of the people that he killed

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Speaker 1: in combat through their eyes. And not only that, he

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Speaker 1: sometimes felt the pain of the child that would no

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Speaker 1: longer have a father because he had killed the father

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Speaker 1: in combat, and this fault in the near death experienced state.

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Speaker 1: The power of consciousness is if you do not use it,

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Speaker 1: it becomes of you as a human being. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you lose out what happens? Well? I think this

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Speaker 1: idea of consciousness, that we are consciousness and we have

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Speaker 1: an ability to control it or mold it to our benefit,

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Speaker 1: is one that's incredibly empowering for the individual once one

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Speaker 1: is awoken to this idea. And we've mentioned psychokinesis earlier,

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Speaker 1: which is the ability for the mind to effectively mold

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Speaker 1: or impact reality that is completely in alignment with this

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Speaker 1: idea that all reality is consciousness. So this apparently physical

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Speaker 1: world is really a product of our collective consciousness. So

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Speaker 1: when we shift our consciousness in a certain direction with intentions,

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Speaker 1: it would seem to reason that the physical reality around

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Speaker 1: us would shift in some way. And when that kind

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Speaker 1: of a shift happens not just for the individual, but

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Speaker 1: when many individuals do it, I think that's when we

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Speaker 1: get a global shift, and I think it's what we

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Speaker 1: need right now. You've warned us about the seduction of

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Speaker 1: power in the book, explain that, Well, this gets to

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Speaker 1: your point, George, about how can we use consciousness. I

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Speaker 1: think we can use our consciousness to set an intention

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Speaker 1: that is for our own individual power for very selfish reasons.

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Speaker 1: And when we look at some very elevated people who

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Speaker 1: would reach states that are sort of like in alignment

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Speaker 1: with the full stream of consciousness, what some would call enlightenment,

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Speaker 1: like the Buddha, Jesus Christ, they were faced with temptation.

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Speaker 1: Jesus was faced with temptation from the devil, as the

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Speaker 1: story goes, Buddha was faced with temptation from a demon

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Speaker 1: named Mara. In the Yoga sutras they warn of celestial beings.

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Speaker 1: And one of my favorite stories is from doctor David Hawkins,

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Speaker 1: who's famous for writing the book Power Versus Force, but

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Speaker 1: he was also a very I think enlightened person. He said,

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Speaker 1: when he reached higher and higher levels of consciousness where

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Speaker 1: he was sort of uniting with this broader stream and

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Speaker 1: feeling the oneness. He was faced with a temptation where

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Speaker 1: this knowingness, apparently from an external source, came to him

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Speaker 1: and said, you've transcended your personal karma. All power is yours.

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Speaker 1: You can take it. And he declined it because the reasoned, wait,

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Speaker 1: I am everything, so why would I need power over others?

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Speaker 1: But interestingly, what he claims in the story, which of

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Speaker 1: course I can't validate, but it's an interesting story. He

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Speaker 1: says that when he kind of passed that test, he

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Speaker 1: was shown the other beings throughout history who had passed it,

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Speaker 1: like Jesus and the Buddha. But he said he was

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Speaker 1: also shown the people that got to that level and

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Speaker 1: took the temptation, and he said it was a terrible

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Speaker 1: karmic fall for those people, which is just fascinating to me.

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Speaker 1: Is there evil on that side too? Well, it seems

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Speaker 1: like we live in this there is this one universal

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Speaker 1: consciousness that has an infinite amount of diversity. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of the duality that we live in, where it's there

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Speaker 1: is at one level unity, but at another level there

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Speaker 1: isn't unity, and there's separation, and within that separation there's

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Speaker 1: a variety of benevolence, and I think there is some

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Speaker 1: what we would call darkness, which to me is availing

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Speaker 1: of the pure state of consciousness. So to an analogy,

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Speaker 1: if consciousness is like the sun, it's always shining rays.

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Speaker 1: But when we have lots of clouds blocking the sun,

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Speaker 1: then we don't experience that consciousness, and that's where maybe

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Speaker 1: the darkness comes from. It's a lack of tapping in

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Speaker 1: and that's where maybe we have malevolence or what we

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Speaker 1: would call bad behavior. Mark Gobert with us. We'll take

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Speaker 1: calls next hour with Mark, what about karma? Where does

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Speaker 1: that fit in? You know the old saying what goes

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Speaker 1: around comes around, But how does karma fit into this? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's just fascinating to me that we're even talking about

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Speaker 1: this because if you had asked me a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: before my research into the science, I would have said,

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Speaker 1: karma's just wishful thinking. It's not part of the universe.

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Speaker 1: And now when I look at things like the life view,

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Speaker 1: where people relive their lives and experience how they impacted people,

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Speaker 1: they feel the negatives that they inflicted on people and

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Speaker 1: they feel the joy. And the fact that we see

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Speaker 1: a lot of evidence for reincarnation like children who have

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Speaker 1: passed life memories and other areas as well. It suggests

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Speaker 1: that karma really could be part of this whole system

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Speaker 1: where the life review might be basically our way to

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Speaker 1: see how we performed in this physical realm, and we

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Speaker 1: get to see in the ways in which we evolved.

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Speaker 1: So David Hawkins, to go back to him, I mentioned

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Speaker 1: him a lot of my second book. He says that

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Speaker 1: we are all karmic wind up toys let loose, And

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Speaker 1: that's what many of the spiritual traditions say is basically

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Speaker 1: where the product of many, many lives that impacts the

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Speaker 1: reality that we experience so that we can have new

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Speaker 1: learning experiences to evolve at the level of our consciousness.

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Speaker 1: How can we use consciousness in a positive way to

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Speaker 1: enhance our life, especially now when everything seems to be

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Speaker 1: so screwed up. The great question I think first and

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Speaker 1: foremost is to understand the nature of reality, to understand

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Speaker 1: that science is suggesting and many direct experiences people have.

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Speaker 1: This is all pointing to the idea that we are

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Speaker 1: our existence is beyond this physical body, and that we

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Speaker 1: are interconnected. So to start there and say, wait a second.

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Speaker 1: Whatever we're taught in the mainstream education system, the mainstream media,

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Speaker 1: it's not the full picture. It's not the updated picture

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Speaker 1: based on what science is showing us. So I think

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Speaker 1: when we tap into understanding that this physical reality is

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Speaker 1: not all there is, number one, it takes some of

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Speaker 1: the pressure off. And number two, I think it impels

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Speaker 1: us to want to help others because at some level

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Speaker 1: another person is a version of us. Because if we're

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Speaker 1: all connected as part of this individual, this one mind consciousness,

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Speaker 1: then helping others becomes an imperative. Actually, being altruistic towards

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Speaker 1: others is a form of selfishness at the level of

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Speaker 1: the one mind. The last few words in the book

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Speaker 1: can end to upside down. Living's title says, save the

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Speaker 1: human species. Tell me about that. Well, when we look

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Speaker 1: at the problems in the world today, whether they're geopolitical violence,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of social unrest at the moment. To me,

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Speaker 1: when I look at those problems, they almost, if not always,

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Speaker 1: stem from a misunderstanding of reality. People are typically acting

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Speaker 1: from this assumption that we are separate from each other,

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Speaker 1: and that we're finite beings. When you diet over there's

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Speaker 1: nothing beyond this body. So if we fix any of

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Speaker 1: the individual quote unquote problems we see in the world today,

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Speaker 1: I think it's sort of like a band aid. It's

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Speaker 1: fixing the symptom without curing the disease. And the disease,

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Speaker 1: to me, is the misunderstanding of reality. And by understanding

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Speaker 1: what reality is, we can therefore then align our compass

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Speaker 1: for our life, set in an orientation for how we

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Speaker 1: want to live, and to me, when enough people do this,

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Speaker 1: potentially that would be enough to shift the reality that

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Speaker 1: we're in such that we live in a much I

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Speaker 1: think better society. As this belief system now that you've

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Speaker 1: developed over the last few years changed you, made you

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Speaker 1: a better person. It's changed me dramatically. So I did

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Speaker 1: think of myself as a good person before I got

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Speaker 1: into all this stuff. I just thought life was meaningless

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Speaker 1: because if you think consciousness comes from the brain, then

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Speaker 1: what happens when the brain shuts off when you die.

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Speaker 1: There's no consciousness, there's no memories, there's no feelings, no thoughts.

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Speaker 1: And therefore I reasoned life did not have any meaning.

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Speaker 1: We live in a random universe. We could create meaning

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Speaker 1: while we're living, but when you die, it's over and

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Speaker 1: that's it. And I know a lot of really smart

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Speaker 1: people who are friends of mine, and lots of smart

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Speaker 1: academics who subscribe to that belief system because it logically

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Speaker 1: follows I think that it's hard to find meaning if

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Speaker 1: it not impossible to find meaning if you think consciousness

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Speaker 1: comes from the brain. So to me, when I was

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Speaker 1: going about my life, you know, working in finance and

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Speaker 1: working very hard academically before that, in the back of

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Speaker 1: my mind, I always thought, wait a second, Mark, none

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Speaker 1: of it actually matters. Even though you care so much,

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Speaker 1: why do you care? None of it matters in the end.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of had this internal struggle. And now

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Speaker 1: that I've stumbled across the science and have developed a

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Speaker 1: hypothesis for how life seems to work, it's I think

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Speaker 1: liberated me in many ways, and I'm much more cognizant

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Speaker 1: of the whole planet and other people because I now

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Speaker 1: view all of us as being interconnected. So my priorities

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Speaker 1: have shifted completely. That's why I wrote these two books

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Speaker 1: and created my podcast. Whereas my mind is because this

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Speaker 1: information is not only life changing for the individual but

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Speaker 1: I think it has the potential the concepts to shift

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Speaker 1: society in a positive direction. Is it consciousness that determines

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Speaker 1: the difference that we make between right and wrong, good

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Speaker 1: and bad and things like that. Yes, But I think

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Speaker 1: ultimately the decisions we make are clouded sometimes by you know,

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Speaker 1: if we go back to the analogy of the sun

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Speaker 1: being pure consciousness and the rays coming in, sometimes we

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Speaker 1: have clouds blocking us from that pure instinct. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's that's part of the awakening processes for us

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Speaker 1: to shed whatever clouds we have so that we can

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Speaker 1: bring in pure consciousness and make decisions that are much

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Speaker 1: more in alignment with probably the overall nature of reality.

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Speaker 1: Does consciousness determine who we are? Does it make us

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Speaker 1: who we are? Well, its consciousness is the basis of everything,

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Speaker 1: then by definition who we are is a product of

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Speaker 1: this broader consciousness. But then there are sub questions to that.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the relative level, we aren't one consciousness.

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Speaker 1: We have this appearance of being separate. And one of

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Speaker 1: the topics I discussed in an end to upside down

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Speaker 1: living is the notion of prebirth planning, which this is

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Speaker 1: another one where I would have I never would have

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Speaker 1: even considered this years ago. But the University of Virginia,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned, they've studied over twenty five hundred cases

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Speaker 1: of children with past life memories. What they find in

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Speaker 1: a subset of those cases is that the children have

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Speaker 1: intermission memories memories between lives, which sometimes includes encountering intelligent

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Speaker 1: being just like what's reported in near depth Experience, but

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Speaker 1: also choosing their parents. And this gets into another topic

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Speaker 1: which is seen much more in under hypnosis. When people

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Speaker 1: kind of quiet their minds, sometimes they claim to have

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Speaker 1: memories of this same intermission period where there seems to

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Speaker 1: be a planning phase where the life that we end

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Speaker 1: up embodying for this lifetime had some degree of planning

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Speaker 1: before the life, which is to me still mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more