Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the
Speaker 1: latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,
Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors
Speaker 1: and of course Carol that's part of a team of
Speaker 1: twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred
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Speaker 1: also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube
Speaker 1: by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, really interested to talk
Speaker 1: to this next guest because I feel like we talked
Speaker 1: so much about vaccines from a medical perspective, but there's
Speaker 1: a social aspect to this as well, and really interested
Speaker 1: to get into it with Monica Shock Spanna. She is
Speaker 1: medical anthropologist and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center
Speaker 1: for Health Security, and of course that is closely tied
Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg School of Public Health that's supported by
Speaker 1: Mike Bloomberg, the founder of Bloomberg philanthropy and Bloomberg LP,
Speaker 1: the owner of this radio station, Monica. Really nice to
Speaker 1: have you with Carol and myself. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Good afternoon. So I'm really fascinated by this because we
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on this program talking to
Speaker 1: a lot of your colleagues at Johns Hopkins, talking to
Speaker 1: a lot of medical experts, and I feel like I
Speaker 1: know more than I ever thought I would about some
Speaker 1: of the medical aspects. But this report the Public's Role
Speaker 1: in COVID nineteen vaccination that your team has put together
Speaker 1: UH is really about the social side of this and
Speaker 1: the public's acceptance. Tell us what you found. Well, the
Speaker 1: big headline here is that it's one thing to have
Speaker 1: a clinically successful vaccine, and we want that, we want
Speaker 1: safe and effective vaccine, But it's another thing to have
Speaker 1: vaccines that are socially acceptable that people are willing to take,
Speaker 1: that they have confidence in UM and feel that they're
Speaker 1: easy to get, and thus they're going to make UH
Speaker 1: an effort to get them. So our group was interested
Speaker 1: in understanding what are those reasons that would make someone
Speaker 1: opt out of COVID nineteen vaccination or inadvertently miss out
Speaker 1: on COVID nineteen vaccination. So that was the focus of
Speaker 1: the group. And what did you find out, Monica, Well,
Speaker 1: what we find out is there's no one explanation as
Speaker 1: to why people are expressing hesitancy around vaccines in general
Speaker 1: and then more specifically about COVID nineteen vaccination. For some people,
Speaker 1: the issue is safety. They're worried that there's a there's
Speaker 1: a sense of urgency and a rush to produce a
Speaker 1: vaccine and perhaps inadvertently along the way, safety is going
Speaker 1: to fall by the wayside. So for some people, it's
Speaker 1: a safety concern. For others, such as members of the
Speaker 1: African American community, they have encountered a history where they
Speaker 1: there has been active abuse of of of them and
Speaker 1: their trust um and uh, there's uh instances in American
Speaker 1: history where men and women of African American descent have
Speaker 1: been experimented on, and they don't want to see themselves
Speaker 1: playing like any pig role for what would be a
Speaker 1: novel vaccine. And for some people the issue is going
Speaker 1: to be cost. Is this something I can afford? Is
Speaker 1: can I get to it without having to take a
Speaker 1: long bus ride and potentially be exposed to COVID nineteen Um,
Speaker 1: do I have to have a caretaker for my kids
Speaker 1: so I can get away to get to the clinic.
Speaker 1: So then for them it's an issue of convenience and Monica,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, you know, I hear you talking about this,
Speaker 1: and I feel like we have gone through and maybe
Speaker 1: you're still going through a very similar station when it
Speaker 1: comes to masks. You know, you had sort of this,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of people dividing on on sides for
Speaker 1: political reasons. This is in some ways just as important,
Speaker 1: maybe even more important. And I do think about things
Speaker 1: we've seen here in the New York City area around
Speaker 1: measles and and those sorts of things where if there's
Speaker 1: a group of people who just opts out that has
Speaker 1: a pretty profound societal effect. You've put your finger right
Speaker 1: on it. This public health intervention is about the community.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily just about individual health. So if I
Speaker 1: get vaccinated, yes I will get some modicum of protection
Speaker 1: against disease, but that protection in my body will actually
Speaker 1: help protect the people around me because I then am
Speaker 1: not communicating or transmitting the virus. So it's it's a
Speaker 1: win win situation. Um. And yes, so we have had
Speaker 1: recent instances in in the US present where there are
Speaker 1: sectors of society who are opting out of vaccine, harming
Speaker 1: themselves but also potentially harming the larger community. So it's
Speaker 1: not just about the anti vax community. I think what's
Speaker 1: really interesting in what you're getting into, Monica is something
Speaker 1: you know we all have, Jason and I certainly I've
Speaker 1: been talking about a lot since the virus began, and
Speaker 1: certainly since what happened in Minneapolis, just about the inequalities
Speaker 1: in our world. And I do wonder about access. And
Speaker 1: I do wonder too, you know, the responsibility of kind
Speaker 1: of our government in all of especially when some of
Speaker 1: the vaccine makers or you know, the big farmer that's
Speaker 1: racing on getting to UM, working on racing to get
Speaker 1: a vaccine, or saying we're going to offer it pretty inexpensively,
Speaker 1: Like you do wonder, how do you make this so
Speaker 1: that everybody easily has access to it? Do you make
Speaker 1: it free essentially to protect society and protect people everybody?
Speaker 1: That's an excellent question. Uh. The judgment of our working
Speaker 1: group is there there should be no cost associated with
Speaker 1: accessing this facting um, and that will remove one of
Speaker 1: the biggest hurdles for people to to get it. It's
Speaker 1: not the only hurdle, but it's an important one. And
Speaker 1: I think not only is it about the economics, it's
Speaker 1: also about the sense that our government is investing our
Speaker 1: money in our well being. We and you know these
Speaker 1: are public dollars and so we would derive benefit. All Right, Well,
Speaker 1: this is I hope the first of several conversations we
Speaker 1: have about this. This is critically important and we really
Speaker 1: appreciate it, especially as we get closer to a vaccine.
Speaker 1: What the government does, what private institutions do like yours,
Speaker 1: is going to be critical to us all getting back
Speaker 1: to some semblance of normal and staying healthy. Carol, Right,
Speaker 1: and this idea of access that every everybody can equally
Speaker 1: access it, This is really important, um, and this could
Speaker 1: be very divisive in our society again if we don't
Speaker 1: get this right. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. An interview earlier
Speaker 1: with one of our experts at Johns Hopkins talking about antibodies.
Speaker 1: Let's go a little bit deeper on that with Michelle Cortes,
Speaker 1: senior Health and science reporter for Bloomberg. She has been
Speaker 1: doing just an incredible job covering this as she always does,
Speaker 1: really finding her moment as a journalist. I feel like, here, Carol,
Speaker 1: and if you're not reading her, you're missing out and
Speaker 1: you're not fully understanding what's going on out there. Michelle
Speaker 1: joints on the phone from Minneapolis. So, Michelle, antibodies. We
Speaker 1: all want them, um, but maybe some news that they're
Speaker 1: not quite as greater or they don't last quite as
Speaker 1: long as we had hoped. Right. Well, just like everything
Speaker 1: else with this coronavirus infection, we're learning so many new
Speaker 1: things about the way our body react to novel hapogens
Speaker 1: and what that means. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: researchers are finding now is that the antibodies that we make,
Speaker 1: the one that basically primed our immune system to fight
Speaker 1: off future infections, might not stick around as long as
Speaker 1: we had hoped for to keep this coronavirus in check.
Speaker 1: And that's a little bit worrisome from the vaccine and
Speaker 1: herd immunity perspective, right, I mean, when we keep thinking
Speaker 1: about the ways we hope to get ahead of this,
Speaker 1: herd immunity was one of those. I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like Michelle an important aspect of it, right, Well, herd
Speaker 1: immunity is this idea that once you've been in, once
Speaker 1: you've seen this virus, once you've been infected yourself or
Speaker 1: you've gotten an immunization, then you're no longer a repository
Speaker 1: for it. You can't pass it along. You're basically like
Speaker 1: the free kid in tag, right, But so you're not
Speaker 1: going to go get anyone else, so you're good to go.
Speaker 1: The idea that those that free space only lasts for
Speaker 1: maybe three months or six months, or less than a year,
Speaker 1: that's what these study results are suggesting. And of course,
Speaker 1: again very early. What they found was that the antibodies
Speaker 1: have a half life that means they're about half gone
Speaker 1: after seventy two days on average. Was a very small study,
Speaker 1: just thirty four patients, but that that would suggest that
Speaker 1: certainly you're not going to have a lifelong immunity from
Speaker 1: this coronavirus infection, and maybe it wouldn't get us along
Speaker 1: far enough to protect everybody in order to get the
Speaker 1: virus under control. More broadly, so, Michelle, I feel like
Speaker 1: even those of us like Carol and myself who are
Speaker 1: watching this fairly closely, we're not watching it nearly as
Speaker 1: closely as you are, and I think we all can
Speaker 1: get a little distracted, you know, like a dog with
Speaker 1: a bunch of squirrels running around, Like what what what
Speaker 1: you know? In terms of like what is new and trending?
Speaker 1: Break this down for us, like what are the as
Speaker 1: you think about the last couple of weeks, what are
Speaker 1: the most important medical developments that we should really be
Speaker 1: paying attention to? Right? Well, the most important things that
Speaker 1: have come in the last week or two, honestly, are
Speaker 1: the advances in the vaccine initiative. And the point there
Speaker 1: is that it has been largely phenomenal. The pace at
Speaker 1: which the vaccine development is happening has never been seen
Speaker 1: before in science, across almost anything. When I first started
Speaker 1: getting into this business, the work was around each idea
Speaker 1: and aid and my god, it was depressing. Four years.
Speaker 1: In this particular case, the virus itself hasn't even been
Speaker 1: around for one year, right, we're looking at about seven
Speaker 1: eight months now, and the fact that they have a
Speaker 1: vaccine that is producing antibodies again the part of your
Speaker 1: immune system that fights off infection is really astonishing. I
Speaker 1: have Oh go ahead, no, no no, no, you finished? You finished? Please?
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say it's it's all still so
Speaker 1: so early. The fact that we haven't been that nothing
Speaker 1: has come up to say, oh, this is a you know,
Speaker 1: it's not only a black diamonds, like they're all going
Speaker 1: down black diamonds, but nobody's sawn off a cliff on
Speaker 1: any of these yet is astonishing. I think people need
Speaker 1: to remember that that will happen, and when that happens,
Speaker 1: everyone will panic. But there's a lot of efforts underway,
Speaker 1: and when bad news comes, as it will, don't freak out.
Speaker 1: But the fact that it hasn't come yet is astonishing.
Speaker 1: I do have to say a register, and I got
Speaker 1: a little bumped because I feel like, until we get
Speaker 1: a vaccine, we're kind of stuck. Right until we get
Speaker 1: a vaccine, we're kind of stuck. Yes, And then what
Speaker 1: my story is suggesting, worrisomely is that even a vaccine
Speaker 1: might not be what everyone's thinking is, yeah, that a
Speaker 1: vaccine is everyone's get out of jail free card, and
Speaker 1: and maybe not, but again early days, but don't count
Speaker 1: on it. Have a great Thursday, everybody, Thanks Michelle, get
Speaker 1: out there, don't don't be worried, but worry a little bit.
Speaker 1: All right, Michelle Cortes, thank you so much, senior Health
Speaker 1: and Science reporter for Bloomberg. Her work just astonishing on this,
Speaker 1: so follow her at Faye Cortes to check out her
Speaker 1: latest stories. It is unbelievable, right, She gets into the
Speaker 1: weeds and really makes us so much smarter in terms
Speaker 1: of understanding what's going on. And I do think, you know,
Speaker 1: my message always with her is this is so tricky
Speaker 1: and we keep learning things every day, and that's why
Speaker 1: it makes it so difficult if you are listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, Well, you know, we talk about the
Speaker 1: go to writers and the folks that you really want
Speaker 1: to follow on certain topics. Lauren Atter certainly falls into
Speaker 1: that category, and her work that she and some of
Speaker 1: our colleagues have done on Jewel has just been riveting
Speaker 1: and must read for sure. Lauren is a project and
Speaker 1: investigations reporter for Bloomberg, joining us on the phone from
Speaker 1: Los Angeles along with Joel Weber, the editor of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. He joins us from Massachusetts. So Joel fair
Speaker 1: to say, this has been and sometimes sometimes sort of
Speaker 1: hard to read a series of stories because of all
Speaker 1: the candidly like moufeasance and twists and turns. Uh, this
Speaker 1: one is no exception. Yeah, And and I think the
Speaker 1: thing about the story um uh and Jewel is how
Speaker 1: much we we still kind of are waiting to figure
Speaker 1: out where the FDA is going to come down on Jewel.
Speaker 1: And but what Lauren really was able to dig in here,
Speaker 1: and from the moment that I've heard her talk about
Speaker 1: this story, I've just been like utterly, like so excited
Speaker 1: to like publish it. Um. It is really uh something
Speaker 1: about um the product timeline, and there's big insights into
Speaker 1: Jewel that she's sort of uncovered along the way. But
Speaker 1: the main critical thing that she's really unearthed here was
Speaker 1: that the product UM became very popular very quickly, but
Speaker 1: there were there were some subtle changes that got made
Speaker 1: along the way that maybe didn't have f d A sanctioning.
Speaker 1: And when that happened, Um, now after the fact the
Speaker 1: f d A is it will will start to decide
Speaker 1: what the company's fate is for those decisions. UM, and
Speaker 1: Lauren like, take take us through what you learned in
Speaker 1: the significance of it. Yeah, thanks so much. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating really to follow the company and follow their
Speaker 1: meteoric rise. Really Um. They're one of the fasket growing
Speaker 1: companies in Silicon Valley, and really Uh followed the Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley playbook, which is moved fast embracings. So as they're
Speaker 1: growing um from the very beginning, they're up against huge
Speaker 1: competitors from the tobacco industry and it's really a race
Speaker 1: to the top essentially. And as Jewel releases its product,
Speaker 1: they realize that there are some major problems with the
Speaker 1: design and functioning of it. The pods or leaking the
Speaker 1: nicotine into people's mouths, and they were also leaking into
Speaker 1: the device itself, which was causing it to essentially break.
Speaker 1: So that was a huge problem for this startup that
Speaker 1: was trying to compete in a really rough and tumble marketplace.
Speaker 1: And normally, under normal circumstances, the company would just fix
Speaker 1: it and move right on. But the challenge here was
Speaker 1: that the FDA was scrambling to really get ahold of
Speaker 1: this new and rapidly growing e cigarette market. So they
Speaker 1: basically said, look, we're going to freeze the market. No
Speaker 1: companies that are currently selling their products can continue to
Speaker 1: sell them, but you cannot make any changes or modifications
Speaker 1: to that product, otherwise that would be a new product
Speaker 1: and you would not be allowed in the market. So basically,
Speaker 1: Jewel was faced with the problem do they go ahead
Speaker 1: and fix their product that was actually breaking or do
Speaker 1: they abide by the FDA's rules. And they were had
Speaker 1: so much venture capital backing they had their backs up
Speaker 1: against the wall. They ended up making these changes essentially
Speaker 1: fixed the product and consumers never would have known. But
Speaker 1: it was something that ended up being kind of a
Speaker 1: closely held secret within the company that they made these changes,
Speaker 1: and it really helped their product become the number one
Speaker 1: cigarette and selling cigarette in the entire world. So they
Speaker 1: did what they kind of should have done, right, Lauren,
Speaker 1: is they fixed the product there was a flaw, but
Speaker 1: in doing so, they have potentially or will get themselves
Speaker 1: in trouble with regulators bottom line, Right, So this is
Speaker 1: going to be the million dollar question how the FDA
Speaker 1: is going to treat this information. So right now, the
Speaker 1: future of Jewel literally rest in the hands of the FDA,
Speaker 1: because every sigarette company, including Jewel, is now having to
Speaker 1: apply to the agency to get the agency's authorization to
Speaker 1: allow them to continue selling their products. So already the
Speaker 1: FDA is heavily scrutinizing Jewel, and um, you know, the
Speaker 1: FDA has been digging around Jewel for a very long
Speaker 1: time trying to figure out did they do something wrong,
Speaker 1: did they modify their products illegally? Did they know did
Speaker 1: they do something they weren't supposed to do which led
Speaker 1: to this five million kids being addicted to e cigarette?
Speaker 1: And so the fact that this never surface and now
Speaker 1: the FDA is presented with this information, it's going to
Speaker 1: be a big question whether or not how they will
Speaker 1: treat that information. But used to say that it's potentially
Speaker 1: damaging to the company in the sense that their fate
Speaker 1: rests in the hands of the FDA right now, So, Lauren, um,
Speaker 1: what could uh the FDA designed to do? And also
Speaker 1: let's keep in mind here and give us a sense
Speaker 1: of all the other government agencies that are also interested
Speaker 1: in Jewel A cigarettes right. So, basically, under the law,
Speaker 1: the Food Draining Cosmetic Act, it said that the cigarette
Speaker 1: companies or tobacco products that are regulated by this law
Speaker 1: were not allowed to modify the product and if they
Speaker 1: did modify their products, it would render the new tobacco product.
Speaker 1: And if that, if they didn't have authorization to be
Speaker 1: selling that new tobacco product. That meant that their product
Speaker 1: was essentially on the market without authorization and could be
Speaker 1: subject to remove all So technically, I mean the Jewel
Speaker 1: will have all kinds of defenses and arguments to this.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's not clear that the FDA has
Speaker 1: a clear pathway here, but in theory, the fd A
Speaker 1: potentially has the authority to remove the product from the market.
Speaker 1: It's unclear whether or not they would take that drastic action.
Speaker 1: So that's one piece of it. Yes, and you mentioned
Speaker 1: the other regulators. Yes, there are multiple government agencies that
Speaker 1: are have been an our investigating Jewel, including the Federal
Speaker 1: Trade Commission. That agency is looking at whether or not
Speaker 1: the deal, the humongous deal that Jewel did with Altrea
Speaker 1: with anti competitive um The Department of Justice is probing
Speaker 1: Jewel UM. I discovered this in my reporting that the
Speaker 1: company UM that they outside the federal prosecutors in San
Speaker 1: Francisco are looking at, among other things, whether or not
Speaker 1: Jewel was truthful with with um UH. Federal agents, including
Speaker 1: the FDA in its correspondence and communications. Um and the
Speaker 1: Securities and Exchange Commission is very interested in as well,
Speaker 1: um um in the types of communications that the company
Speaker 1: made to investors and whether or not it was forthcoming
Speaker 1: on that front too. So yeah, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: interest in the company. There's a lot of steak Jewel.
Speaker 1: I think the most important thing to remember is that
Speaker 1: Jewel essentially has a single product. This is a company
Speaker 1: that does not have a big basket of products, has
Speaker 1: one product. And if they do not get the FDA's
Speaker 1: authorization to move forward, they are kind of they're left
Speaker 1: without any product to sell. But they could, Lauren, we
Speaker 1: just got about forty seconds left here. I mean, they
Speaker 1: could say listen, this was a safety issue. Ultimately, the
Speaker 1: company did the right thing. Their various arguments that the
Speaker 1: company could make, including that um and that's certainly one
Speaker 1: that I'm sure that they will be will attempt to make.
Speaker 1: Absolutely there are definitely defenses that the company has that
Speaker 1: they'll put forward, UM, no doubt. All right, Lauren at
Speaker 1: a terrific reporting on Jewel. You've been following the story
Speaker 1: so closely, and I should note not to spoil the
Speaker 1: end of the story, but you have a nice, nice
Speaker 1: sort of wrap at the end where you talk about
Speaker 1: how the company has moved from San Francisco, as you said,
Speaker 1: following the Silicon Valley playbook, now to Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: Its headquarters there because this is where the fight is
Speaker 1: in many ways, so an interesting sort of emblem of
Speaker 1: where the company is. Lauren Eddard joining us from Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Our thanks to her, as well as to Joe Weber,
Speaker 1: the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. Yeah, and check out
Speaker 1: the new issue on newsstands on the Bloomberg terminal and
Speaker 1: of course at Bloomberg dot com room a journal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no
Speaker 1: home honey, please, I'll do the ding drivel exst me.
Speaker 1: I want to drive, just drive, baby, the questions trying.
Speaker 1: This is the drive to the Globe commune. Thanks, we'll
Speaker 1: drive us down on Bloomberg Radio this Indeed, it's time
Speaker 1: for the Drive to the close with us. Is Deepak Puri,
Speaker 1: chief investment Officer of America's at Deutsche Bank Wealth Man Management,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone in New York City. Depart.
Speaker 1: Nice to have you here with Jason and myself. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, an interesting day, interesting couple of weeks. We're
Speaker 1: starting to get earnings. How do you see the market
Speaker 1: environment right, now, thank you, Carol. Interesting is very benign
Speaker 1: word I and I agree. It's been interesting, but mostly
Speaker 1: surreal for me this entire year. To be honest, Um,
Speaker 1: I think the volatility, even though it has come down
Speaker 1: quite dramatically from the March highs, it's still elevated and
Speaker 1: I think that's going to continue as we enter the
Speaker 1: really the last stretch of a general election year. So
Speaker 1: you know, if this was a normal year, the higher
Speaker 1: volatility time would be in front of us, because that's
Speaker 1: what usually happens. You know, right after Labor Day September
Speaker 1: October tends to be really volatile before the presidential election.
Speaker 1: Given the kind of fear we have had, it seems
Speaker 1: to be a little bit lower at this point. But
Speaker 1: I think from now on, the sort of the initial
Speaker 1: bounce that we have seen in the economy is going
Speaker 1: to start to stall, and that's going to tread a
Speaker 1: whole host of issues for investors. So it's I am
Speaker 1: suggesting at least my clients to still be bracing for
Speaker 1: a highly charged up environment and markets as we enter
Speaker 1: the final leg of this calendar year, and so Dpack
Speaker 1: we're obviously in the midst of earning, so we don't
Speaker 1: have a full read yet, but so far, what do
Speaker 1: you make of these second quarter reports? Because they were
Speaker 1: eagerly awaited, both in terms of the numbers but also
Speaker 1: in terms of the commentary and the guidance. What's your
Speaker 1: feel so far? Uh, Jason, I think the markets are
Speaker 1: looking past the second quarter, and I think we will
Speaker 1: all expecting the second quarterings to be the bottom uh
Speaker 1: for the you know, the expectations were so low, so
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised that if at the end
Speaker 1: of the quarter we end up getting sort of sixty
Speaker 1: to sixty five percent beats on the ets and you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit lower on the revenue side. I think
Speaker 1: the markets are looking beyond maybe yes, what kind of
Speaker 1: guidance companies are going to give? And even there, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty five percent of the companies are actually not providing
Speaker 1: any specific guidance related to COVID, how COVID is going
Speaker 1: to impact their bottom line or their revenue. It's it's
Speaker 1: still foggy for them, and hence it becomes a little
Speaker 1: bit difficult for folks like myself to even gauge, you know,
Speaker 1: what the trajectory of the earnings is going to be
Speaker 1: as we enter the second half of the and beyond.
Speaker 1: Having said that, I think so far it's been a
Speaker 1: mixed bag, you know, especially with the banks behind us,
Speaker 1: which I think I'm much better prepared this time around
Speaker 1: than the GFC, and even some of the techniques that
Speaker 1: are started to show. I think you can see that
Speaker 1: the revenue uh, you know, impact hasn't been that so there.
Speaker 1: And what I think what's going to happen is that
Speaker 1: the post COVID recovery is going to be really dependent
Speaker 1: on technology, you know, rebuilding of the health care system,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a green recovery. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about the infrastructure and sustainability. So
Speaker 1: I think these three sort of mega trends are gonna
Speaker 1: you know, exacerbate in a post COVID environment. That was interesting.
Speaker 1: You said tech, you said green, and what was the
Speaker 1: other one healthcare? Health care? Yeah, And I do feel
Speaker 1: like health care has been a system you know, often
Speaker 1: in times of stress, right, that's when we start to
Speaker 1: figure out better ways to do some do things because
Speaker 1: we have to. And I see it even as I
Speaker 1: slowly make my way back to the health care sector
Speaker 1: for routine things that I feel like it's become a
Speaker 1: much more efficient place, because I have to be exactly right,
Speaker 1: and I think it's you know, if there is a
Speaker 1: lesson learned from the COVID epidemic, it is that how
Speaker 1: sort of dysfunctional everything has been. UM. I think we
Speaker 1: are a little bit behind as the country come paid
Speaker 1: to other countries in their way of handling UM. There
Speaker 1: was not even though we were ranked number one, and
Speaker 1: that John Hopkins very often coded report, we didn't really
Speaker 1: you know, at least from what I can see as
Speaker 1: of today, end up being a number one, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of our infection rate, mortality, to kind of
Speaker 1: strain our healthcare system had to go through. You know,
Speaker 1: I think a lot needs to be done. We spend
Speaker 1: the fortune in novels, clubs from one thing tanks study
Speaker 1: that I read, and it doesn't feel like with all
Speaker 1: that spending that the the output has been that efficient.
Speaker 1: So to your point, I think this might give us
Speaker 1: a pot self reflect and maybe we've become a bit
Speaker 1: more efficient going forward and actually use technology a lot
Speaker 1: more so DPAC. Before we let you go, just have
Speaker 1: to ask you about sort of the one to punch
Speaker 1: that we've seen across the early part or the the
Speaker 1: so far. Maybe it's not early the so far of
Speaker 1: this pandemic. In terms of fiscal and monetary response, all
Speaker 1: eyes are on Watchton. Now for the fiscal side, where
Speaker 1: do you look to as an investor now for essentially
Speaker 1: relief and rescue. Is it all fiscal at this point? No.
Speaker 1: I I don't think you can rule up monetree policy completely. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, even though I think the FED they're getting
Speaker 1: close to the election, is probably done a lot more
Speaker 1: in the front tent. So the first half of the
Speaker 1: year is really where they came out with the big,
Speaker 1: more aggressive policy actions. That doesn't mean that they cannot
Speaker 1: do something. It needs to be Keep in mind, we
Speaker 1: have two effluencing meetings from now till the election date
Speaker 1: and three unemployment reports. So I don't think we have
Speaker 1: enough data points now to substantially alter the sort of
Speaker 1: the you know, the take that the FED has made.
Speaker 1: I think on the fiscal side, a lot has been
Speaker 1: done and that has been one of the the you know,
Speaker 1: the silver lining, but a lot really needs to be done.
Speaker 1: As we have said, and other commentators have said, you know,
Speaker 1: the recovery is stalling and for us, this is going
Speaker 1: to be a steep recession and somewhat of muted recovery,
Speaker 1: and for us to gain that speed where we really
Speaker 1: have that escape velocity to go back to a pre
Speaker 1: COVID level of economic activity and the labor market conditions,
Speaker 1: A lot needs to be done on the fiscal side,
Speaker 1: and I think for the time being at least a
Speaker 1: debt overhang discussion should be left for subsequent years because
Speaker 1: right now, the bigger problem is whether you're going to have,
Speaker 1: you know, a g d P rather than the concern
Speaker 1: with regards to debt to GDP. Right you've got to
Speaker 1: rebuild that economy so you have an economy to come
Speaker 1: back to. UM. Deepac always thoughtful, UM, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Deepak Pury, chief Investment Officer America's at
Speaker 1: Dirty Bank Wealth Management, joining us on the phone from
Speaker 1: New York City, and I feel like he's mirroring Jason
Speaker 1: how we kind of kicked off that you rightfully pointing
Speaker 1: out that the job was claimed today, you know, reminding
Speaker 1: us that things are not getting better and maybe getting worse.
Speaker 1: And there are concerns, as he said, you know, things
Speaker 1: starting to stall out and depending on what we get
Speaker 1: from Washington, you know we still need relief to make
Speaker 1: sure that there is still essentially an economy to come
Speaker 1: back to exactly. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg
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