WEBVTT - The Public’s Role in COVID-19 Vaccination 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:37.120 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Well, really interested to talk 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.120 to this next guest because I feel like we talked 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.120 so much about vaccines from a medical perspective, but there's 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.800 a social aspect to this as well, and really interested 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.879 to get into it with Monica Shock Spanna. She is 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.320 medical anthropologist and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.560 for Health Security, and of course that is closely tied 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.760 with the Bloomberg School of Public Health that's supported by 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.760 Mike Bloomberg, the founder of Bloomberg philanthropy and Bloomberg LP, 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.600 the owner of this radio station, Monica. Really nice to 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.960 have you with Carol and myself. Thank you for having me. 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.160 Good afternoon. So I'm really fascinated by this because we 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.360 spent a lot of time on this program talking to 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.360 a lot of your colleagues at Johns Hopkins, talking to 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:17.520 a lot of medical experts, and I feel like I 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.600 know more than I ever thought I would about some 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.040 of the medical aspects. But this report the Public's Role 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.360 in COVID nineteen vaccination that your team has put together 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.080 UH is really about the social side of this and 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:35.720 the public's acceptance. Tell us what you found. Well, the 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.360 big headline here is that it's one thing to have 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.080 a clinically successful vaccine, and we want that, we want 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.520 safe and effective vaccine, But it's another thing to have 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.480 vaccines that are socially acceptable that people are willing to take, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.520 that they have confidence in UM and feel that they're 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.280 easy to get, and thus they're going to make UH 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.280 an effort to get them. So our group was interested 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:08.880 in understanding what are those reasons that would make someone 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:16.120 opt out of COVID nineteen vaccination or inadvertently miss out 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.760 on COVID nineteen vaccination. So that was the focus of 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:24.600 the group. And what did you find out, Monica, Well, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.880 what we find out is there's no one explanation as 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:36.040 to why people are expressing hesitancy around vaccines in general 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:41.239 and then more specifically about COVID nineteen vaccination. For some people, 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.400 the issue is safety. They're worried that there's a there's 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.920 a sense of urgency and a rush to produce a 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.600 vaccine and perhaps inadvertently along the way, safety is going 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.120 to fall by the wayside. So for some people, it's 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.880 a safety concern. For others, such as members of the 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:06.320 African American community, they have encountered a history where they 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.960 there has been active abuse of of of them and 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.440 their trust um and uh, there's uh instances in American 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:19.680 history where men and women of African American descent have 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.160 been experimented on, and they don't want to see themselves 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.359 playing like any pig role for what would be a 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.040 novel vaccine. And for some people the issue is going 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.640 to be cost. Is this something I can afford? Is 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.200 can I get to it without having to take a 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:42.400 long bus ride and potentially be exposed to COVID nineteen Um, 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.520 do I have to have a caretaker for my kids 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.760 so I can get away to get to the clinic. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.280 So then for them it's an issue of convenience and Monica, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.480 it's interesting, you know, I hear you talking about this, 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:57.560 and I feel like we have gone through and maybe 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.600 you're still going through a very similar station when it 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.480 comes to masks. You know, you had sort of this, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.440 you know, sort of people dividing on on sides for 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.920 political reasons. This is in some ways just as important, 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.119 maybe even more important. And I do think about things 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.080 we've seen here in the New York City area around 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.320 measles and and those sorts of things where if there's 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.440 a group of people who just opts out that has 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.640 a pretty profound societal effect. You've put your finger right 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.520 on it. This public health intervention is about the community. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:38.440 It's not necessarily just about individual health. So if I 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.040 get vaccinated, yes I will get some modicum of protection 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:47.560 against disease, but that protection in my body will actually 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.960 help protect the people around me because I then am 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:56.880 not communicating or transmitting the virus. So it's it's a 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:01.760 win win situation. Um. And yes, so we have had 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:07.760 recent instances in in the US present where there are 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.239 sectors of society who are opting out of vaccine, harming 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.000 themselves but also potentially harming the larger community. So it's 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.480 not just about the anti vax community. I think what's 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.280 really interesting in what you're getting into, Monica is something 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.640 you know we all have, Jason and I certainly I've 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:25.839 been talking about a lot since the virus began, and 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.360 certainly since what happened in Minneapolis, just about the inequalities 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.360 in our world. And I do wonder about access. And 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.520 I do wonder too, you know, the responsibility of kind 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.279 of our government in all of especially when some of 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.120 the vaccine makers or you know, the big farmer that's 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.120 racing on getting to UM, working on racing to get 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.279 a vaccine, or saying we're going to offer it pretty inexpensively, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.400 Like you do wonder, how do you make this so 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.560 that everybody easily has access to it? Do you make 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.720 it free essentially to protect society and protect people everybody? 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.840 That's an excellent question. Uh. The judgment of our working 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.320 group is there there should be no cost associated with 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:12.120 accessing this facting um, and that will remove one of 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.719 the biggest hurdles for people to to get it. It's 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.719 not the only hurdle, but it's an important one. And 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.159 I think not only is it about the economics, it's 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:29.719 also about the sense that our government is investing our 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:34.200 money in our well being. We and you know these 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:39.800 are public dollars and so we would derive benefit. All Right, Well, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.159 this is I hope the first of several conversations we 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.200 have about this. This is critically important and we really 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.640 appreciate it, especially as we get closer to a vaccine. 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.560 What the government does, what private institutions do like yours, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.160 is going to be critical to us all getting back 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.440 to some semblance of normal and staying healthy. Carol, Right, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.040 and this idea of access that every everybody can equally 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.320 access it, This is really important, um, and this could 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:07.360 be very divisive in our society again if we don't 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.760 get this right. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.440 Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. An interview earlier 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.840 with one of our experts at Johns Hopkins talking about antibodies. 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.600 Let's go a little bit deeper on that with Michelle Cortes, 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.280 senior Health and science reporter for Bloomberg. She has been 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.360 doing just an incredible job covering this as she always does, 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.920 really finding her moment as a journalist. I feel like, here, Carol, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.160 and if you're not reading her, you're missing out and 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.200 you're not fully understanding what's going on out there. Michelle 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.320 joints on the phone from Minneapolis. So, Michelle, antibodies. We 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:49.120 all want them, um, but maybe some news that they're 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.320 not quite as greater or they don't last quite as 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.040 long as we had hoped. Right. Well, just like everything 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.280 else with this coronavirus infection, we're learning so many new 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.920 things about the way our body react to novel hapogens 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.040 and what that means. And one of the things that 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.640 researchers are finding now is that the antibodies that we make, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.119 the one that basically primed our immune system to fight 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.480 off future infections, might not stick around as long as 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.920 we had hoped for to keep this coronavirus in check. 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.760 And that's a little bit worrisome from the vaccine and 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.880 herd immunity perspective, right, I mean, when we keep thinking 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.720 about the ways we hope to get ahead of this, 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.960 herd immunity was one of those. I kind of feel 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.800 like Michelle an important aspect of it, right, Well, herd 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.480 immunity is this idea that once you've been in, once 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.640 you've seen this virus, once you've been infected yourself or 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.080 you've gotten an immunization, then you're no longer a repository 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.440 for it. You can't pass it along. You're basically like 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.559 the free kid in tag, right, But so you're not 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.880 going to go get anyone else, so you're good to go. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.760 The idea that those that free space only lasts for 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.960 maybe three months or six months, or less than a year, 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.760 that's what these study results are suggesting. And of course, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.880 again very early. What they found was that the antibodies 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.319 have a half life that means they're about half gone 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.000 after seventy two days on average. Was a very small study, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.599 just thirty four patients, but that that would suggest that 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.600 certainly you're not going to have a lifelong immunity from 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.040 this coronavirus infection, and maybe it wouldn't get us along 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.280 far enough to protect everybody in order to get the 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.199 virus under control. More broadly, so, Michelle, I feel like 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.440 even those of us like Carol and myself who are 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.840 watching this fairly closely, we're not watching it nearly as 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.000 closely as you are, and I think we all can 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.320 get a little distracted, you know, like a dog with 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.400 a bunch of squirrels running around, Like what what what 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.240 you know? In terms of like what is new and trending? 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.360 Break this down for us, like what are the as 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.720 you think about the last couple of weeks, what are 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.000 the most important medical developments that we should really be 0:09:55.120 --> 0:10:00.240 paying attention to? Right? Well, the most important things that 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.920 have come in the last week or two, honestly, are 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:08.959 the advances in the vaccine initiative. And the point there 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.079 is that it has been largely phenomenal. The pace at 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.200 which the vaccine development is happening has never been seen 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.600 before in science, across almost anything. When I first started 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.440 getting into this business, the work was around each idea 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:28.640 and aid and my god, it was depressing. Four years. 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.880 In this particular case, the virus itself hasn't even been 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.120 around for one year, right, we're looking at about seven 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.120 eight months now, and the fact that they have a 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:42.000 vaccine that is producing antibodies again the part of your 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.199 immune system that fights off infection is really astonishing. I 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.280 have Oh go ahead, no, no no, no, you finished? You finished? Please? 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.319 I was just gonna say it's it's all still so 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.400 so early. The fact that we haven't been that nothing 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.960 has come up to say, oh, this is a you know, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.760 it's not only a black diamonds, like they're all going 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.080 down black diamonds, but nobody's sawn off a cliff on 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.920 any of these yet is astonishing. I think people need 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.640 to remember that that will happen, and when that happens, 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.520 everyone will panic. But there's a lot of efforts underway, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.040 and when bad news comes, as it will, don't freak out. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.200 But the fact that it hasn't come yet is astonishing. 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:21.080 I do have to say a register, and I got 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.280 a little bumped because I feel like, until we get 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:28.760 a vaccine, we're kind of stuck. Right until we get 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.600 a vaccine, we're kind of stuck. Yes, And then what 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.760 my story is suggesting, worrisomely is that even a vaccine 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:39.000 might not be what everyone's thinking is, yeah, that a 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.720 vaccine is everyone's get out of jail free card, and 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.400 and maybe not, but again early days, but don't count 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.480 on it. Have a great Thursday, everybody, Thanks Michelle, get 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.960 out there, don't don't be worried, but worry a little bit. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.840 All right, Michelle Cortes, thank you so much, senior Health 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.880 and Science reporter for Bloomberg. Her work just astonishing on this, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.920 so follow her at Faye Cortes to check out her 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.320 latest stories. It is unbelievable, right, She gets into the 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.200 weeds and really makes us so much smarter in terms 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.440 of understanding what's going on. And I do think, you know, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.440 my message always with her is this is so tricky 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.480 and we keep learning things every day, and that's why 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.720 it makes it so difficult if you are listening to 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.679 Bloomberg Business Week, Well, you know, we talk about the 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.920 go to writers and the folks that you really want 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:27.240 to follow on certain topics. Lauren Atter certainly falls into 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.480 that category, and her work that she and some of 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.800 our colleagues have done on Jewel has just been riveting 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.120 and must read for sure. Lauren is a project and 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.600 investigations reporter for Bloomberg, joining us on the phone from 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.320 Los Angeles along with Joel Weber, the editor of Bloomberg 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.680 Business Week. He joins us from Massachusetts. So Joel fair 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.440 to say, this has been and sometimes sometimes sort of 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.080 hard to read a series of stories because of all 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.280 the candidly like moufeasance and twists and turns. Uh, this 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.880 one is no exception. Yeah, And and I think the 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.599 thing about the story um uh and Jewel is how 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.680 much we we still kind of are waiting to figure 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.800 out where the FDA is going to come down on Jewel. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.640 And but what Lauren really was able to dig in here, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.040 and from the moment that I've heard her talk about 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.760 this story, I've just been like utterly, like so excited 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.280 to like publish it. Um. It is really uh something 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.720 about um the product timeline, and there's big insights into 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.400 Jewel that she's sort of uncovered along the way. But 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.080 the main critical thing that she's really unearthed here was 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:43.160 that the product UM became very popular very quickly, but 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.680 there were there were some subtle changes that got made 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.400 along the way that maybe didn't have f d A sanctioning. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.720 And when that happened, Um, now after the fact the 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.160 f d A is it will will start to decide 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.040 what the company's fate is for those decisions. UM, and 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.920 Lauren like, take take us through what you learned in 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.920 the significance of it. Yeah, thanks so much. UM. You know, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.959 it's fascinating really to follow the company and follow their 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.640 meteoric rise. Really Um. They're one of the fasket growing 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.600 companies in Silicon Valley, and really Uh followed the Silicon 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.000 Valley playbook, which is moved fast embracings. So as they're 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.520 growing um from the very beginning, they're up against huge 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.800 competitors from the tobacco industry and it's really a race 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.680 to the top essentially. And as Jewel releases its product, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.640 they realize that there are some major problems with the 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.000 design and functioning of it. The pods or leaking the 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.960 nicotine into people's mouths, and they were also leaking into 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.320 the device itself, which was causing it to essentially break. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.800 So that was a huge problem for this startup that 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.000 was trying to compete in a really rough and tumble marketplace. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.800 And normally, under normal circumstances, the company would just fix 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.400 it and move right on. But the challenge here was 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.720 that the FDA was scrambling to really get ahold of 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.840 this new and rapidly growing e cigarette market. So they 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.440 basically said, look, we're going to freeze the market. No 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.200 companies that are currently selling their products can continue to 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.320 sell them, but you cannot make any changes or modifications 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.840 to that product, otherwise that would be a new product 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.320 and you would not be allowed in the market. So basically, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.680 Jewel was faced with the problem do they go ahead 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.880 and fix their product that was actually breaking or do 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.000 they abide by the FDA's rules. And they were had 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.360 so much venture capital backing they had their backs up 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.480 against the wall. They ended up making these changes essentially 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.840 fixed the product and consumers never would have known. But 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.680 it was something that ended up being kind of a 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.680 closely held secret within the company that they made these changes, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.640 and it really helped their product become the number one 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.000 cigarette and selling cigarette in the entire world. So they 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:54.960 did what they kind of should have done, right, Lauren, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.440 is they fixed the product there was a flaw, but 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:02.520 in doing so, they have potentially or will get themselves 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.200 in trouble with regulators bottom line, Right, So this is 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.800 going to be the million dollar question how the FDA 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.080 is going to treat this information. So right now, the 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.160 future of Jewel literally rest in the hands of the FDA, 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.200 because every sigarette company, including Jewel, is now having to 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.640 apply to the agency to get the agency's authorization to 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:29.480 allow them to continue selling their products. So already the 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:35.000 FDA is heavily scrutinizing Jewel, and um, you know, the 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.360 FDA has been digging around Jewel for a very long 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.520 time trying to figure out did they do something wrong, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.440 did they modify their products illegally? Did they know did 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.560 they do something they weren't supposed to do which led 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.080 to this five million kids being addicted to e cigarette? 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.200 And so the fact that this never surface and now 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.560 the FDA is presented with this information, it's going to 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.760 be a big question whether or not how they will 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.000 treat that information. But used to say that it's potentially 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.680 damaging to the company in the sense that their fate 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.879 rests in the hands of the FDA right now, So, Lauren, um, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.480 what could uh the FDA designed to do? And also 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.280 let's keep in mind here and give us a sense 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.760 of all the other government agencies that are also interested 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.320 in Jewel A cigarettes right. So, basically, under the law, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.960 the Food Draining Cosmetic Act, it said that the cigarette 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.400 companies or tobacco products that are regulated by this law 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.800 were not allowed to modify the product and if they 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.879 did modify their products, it would render the new tobacco product. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.600 And if that, if they didn't have authorization to be 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.040 selling that new tobacco product. That meant that their product 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.320 was essentially on the market without authorization and could be 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.399 subject to remove all So technically, I mean the Jewel 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.639 will have all kinds of defenses and arguments to this. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.280 So it's it's it's not clear that the FDA has 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.919 a clear pathway here, but in theory, the fd A 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.040 potentially has the authority to remove the product from the market. 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.800 It's unclear whether or not they would take that drastic action. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.359 So that's one piece of it. Yes, and you mentioned 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.520 the other regulators. Yes, there are multiple government agencies that 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.479 are have been an our investigating Jewel, including the Federal 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.520 Trade Commission. That agency is looking at whether or not 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.240 the deal, the humongous deal that Jewel did with Altrea 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.160 with anti competitive um The Department of Justice is probing 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.280 Jewel UM. I discovered this in my reporting that the 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.840 company UM that they outside the federal prosecutors in San 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.320 Francisco are looking at, among other things, whether or not 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:41.480 Jewel was truthful with with um UH. Federal agents, including 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:46.000 the FDA in its correspondence and communications. Um and the 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.200 Securities and Exchange Commission is very interested in as well, 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.000 um um in the types of communications that the company 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.040 made to investors and whether or not it was forthcoming 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.600 on that front too. So yeah, there's a lot of 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.240 interest in the company. There's a lot of steak Jewel. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.119 I think the most important thing to remember is that 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.480 Jewel essentially has a single product. This is a company 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.720 that does not have a big basket of products, has 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.800 one product. And if they do not get the FDA's 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.960 authorization to move forward, they are kind of they're left 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.280 without any product to sell. But they could, Lauren, we 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.159 just got about forty seconds left here. I mean, they 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.240 could say listen, this was a safety issue. Ultimately, the 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.879 company did the right thing. Their various arguments that the 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.200 company could make, including that um and that's certainly one 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.119 that I'm sure that they will be will attempt to make. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.520 Absolutely there are definitely defenses that the company has that 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.119 they'll put forward, UM, no doubt. All right, Lauren at 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.200 a terrific reporting on Jewel. You've been following the story 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.560 so closely, and I should note not to spoil the 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.280 end of the story, but you have a nice, nice 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.240 sort of wrap at the end where you talk about 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.359 how the company has moved from San Francisco, as you said, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.080 following the Silicon Valley playbook, now to Washington, d C. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.320 Its headquarters there because this is where the fight is 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.159 in many ways, so an interesting sort of emblem of 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.800 where the company is. Lauren Eddard joining us from Los Angeles. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.879 Our thanks to her, as well as to Joe Weber, 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.120 the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. Yeah, and check out 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.600 the new issue on newsstands on the Bloomberg terminal and 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:21.840 of course at Bloomberg dot com room a journal. Yeah, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.920 but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.320 home honey, please, I'll do the ding drivel exst me. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:38.600 I want to drive, just drive, baby, the questions trying. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.560 This is the drive to the Globe commune. Thanks, we'll 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.520 drive us down on Bloomberg Radio this Indeed, it's time 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.359 for the Drive to the close with us. Is Deepak Puri, 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:00.400 chief investment Officer of America's at Deutsche Bank Wealth Man Management, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.879 joining us on the phone in New York City. Depart. 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.760 Nice to have you here with Jason and myself. Uh, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.640 you know, an interesting day, interesting couple of weeks. We're 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.640 starting to get earnings. How do you see the market 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:18.800 environment right, now, thank you, Carol. Interesting is very benign 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.560 word I and I agree. It's been interesting, but mostly 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.000 surreal for me this entire year. To be honest, Um, 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.640 I think the volatility, even though it has come down 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.239 quite dramatically from the March highs, it's still elevated and 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.280 I think that's going to continue as we enter the 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.800 really the last stretch of a general election year. So 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:44.240 you know, if this was a normal year, the higher 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.520 volatility time would be in front of us, because that's 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.600 what usually happens. You know, right after Labor Day September 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:54.240 October tends to be really volatile before the presidential election. 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.000 Given the kind of fear we have had, it seems 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.399 to be a little bit lower at this point. But 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.560 I think from now on, the sort of the initial 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.960 bounce that we have seen in the economy is going 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.240 to start to stall, and that's going to tread a 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.840 whole host of issues for investors. So it's I am 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:17.440 suggesting at least my clients to still be bracing for 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:21.840 a highly charged up environment and markets as we enter 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:26.200 the final leg of this calendar year, and so Dpack 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.160 we're obviously in the midst of earning, so we don't 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.359 have a full read yet, but so far, what do 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.080 you make of these second quarter reports? Because they were 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.359 eagerly awaited, both in terms of the numbers but also 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.520 in terms of the commentary and the guidance. What's your 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:47.280 feel so far? Uh, Jason, I think the markets are 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.000 looking past the second quarter, and I think we will 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:54.399 all expecting the second quarterings to be the bottom uh 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.199 for the you know, the expectations were so low, so 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.520 I would not be surprised that if at the end 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.120 of the quarter we end up getting sort of sixty 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.359 to sixty five percent beats on the ets and you know, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.840 a little bit lower on the revenue side. I think 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.119 the markets are looking beyond maybe yes, what kind of 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.399 guidance companies are going to give? And even there, you know, 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.600 thirty five percent of the companies are actually not providing 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:23.800