1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Brainstuff, a production of I Heart Radio, Hey Brainstuff. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Lauren Boglebaum here. On February one, the Myanmar military seized 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: control of the country's government, ousting it's democratically elected civilian leader. 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: The event sparked widespread resistance from the pro democracy electorate, 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: many of whom took to the streets to march in 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: peaceful protest. They were met with violence from the military regime. 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: To date, more than six hundred people, including women and children, 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: have been killed. Political turmoil like what's happening in Myanmar 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: is not new, but what occurred in the United States 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: at a Q and On affiliated event on mate a 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 1: Memorial Day was new. At the Four Godden Country Patriot 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: round Up conference in Dallas, former National Security Advisor Michael 13 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: Flynn suggested a coup should happen in the US When 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: responding to a question from an audience member who asked, 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: why what happened in Myanmar can't happen here. A former 16 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: U S National security advisor implying that the U S 17 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: military should overthrow the government, shocked and concerned many, including 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: Republican Representative Liz Cheney, who condemned Flynn's comments. The French 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: phrase coudta literally translates to blow of state in English, 20 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: a likening forced political seizure to a physical strike against 21 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: the government. It didn't enter the English lexicon until the 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds, coinciding with several major political upheavals in France. 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Who's differ from other forms of civil unrest like war, rioting, 24 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: and revolution in several ways. For example, unlike civil wars, 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: which can draw out for years, who's usually take place 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: in a single day, And unlike revolutions, which tend to 27 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: have broad majority support, coups are usually spearheaded by a 28 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: small group seeking political power. Finally, they also tended to 29 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: focus on an executive power, such as a president or 30 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: a prime minister, rather than the entire governmental apparatus. When 31 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: most people think of a coupa, they picture a violent 32 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: military uprising, something like Chile's bloody overthrow of President Salvador 33 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: Alliende in ninety three for revolt that cost an untold 34 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: number of lives in Mali. And although the majority of 35 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: these events do skew towards violence, not all coups involved bloodshed. 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: Napoleon's seventeen ninety nine capture of Paris for instance, reportedly 37 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: went off without a single death. So what leads to 38 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: a coup it depends from country to country. For the article, 39 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: this episode is based on How Stuff Works. Spoke by 40 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: email with Brian class, An associate professor of Global politics 41 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: at University College London and host of the podcast Power Corrupts. 42 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: He said the drivers of a coup in a place 43 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: like Madagascar are very different from those in Thailand, for example, 44 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 1: but political chaos and dysfunction make coups more likely, and 45 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: the best coup predictor for any given country is whether 46 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: that country has a history of them. For example, after 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: gaining independence from Britain, Myanmar enjoyed fourteen years of democracy 48 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: before its first military coup in nineteen sixty two. A 49 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: procession of military leaders followed until eleven, when the country 50 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: transitioned back to a representative quasi democracy. However, the military, 51 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: evidently dissatisfied with the most recent election results, snatched power 52 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: back earlier this year. Another predictor is a country's economic status. Generally, 53 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: poorer countries tend to have more political unrest, which can 54 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: lead a small radicalized group to seek power. Four of 55 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: the current top five most poverished countries in the world 56 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: by gross domestic product being Burndi, South Sudan, the Central 57 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: African Republic, and Malawi have all experienced coup attempts in 58 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: the last decade, but it would be arnist to assume 59 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: that only poor nations are susceptible. After all, one of 60 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: history's most famous attempted coups, the assassination of Julius Caesar, 61 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: occurred near the height of the Roman Empire's power. Deep 62 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: political polarization can also precipitate a coup, especially if one 63 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: group feels that their interests are being excluded in the 64 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: election process. So with that in mind, could a coup 65 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: happen in the US? Experts say it's improbable, though not impossible. 66 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: Coups rarely happened in what political scientists have termed consolidated democracies, 67 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: where democratic institutions are deeply and firmly entrenched. Klaus said 68 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: the United States is a consolidated, albeit severely flawed democracy. 69 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: Three major factors contribute to the United States coup proofing. 70 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: The first is an independent court system. By and large, 71 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: U S courts are nonpartisan and beholden to judge, jury, 72 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: and legal president rather than a particular political party. This 73 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: holds true even for Supreme Court justices, who may be 74 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: appointed directly by a sitting president. Second is a military 75 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: chain of command. The president holds the highest rank in 76 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: the military as commander in chief. Every general answers to them, 77 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: and as an institution, respect for authority in the military 78 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: runs deep. But if corruption enters the hierarchy, there are 79 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: still checks in place. The soldiers have the right to 80 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: refuse orders that strike them as palpably illegal. Furthermore, U 81 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: S military personnel are not a completely homogenized group, as 82 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: people of any gender, racial background, sexual orientation, or political 83 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: persua Asian can and are encouraged to serve together. These 84 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: theoretically ensure that one political actor or party does not 85 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: achieve an unbreakable stranglehold over military power. Finally, there's the 86 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: sheer byzantine sprawl of the United States government. How stuff works. 87 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: Also spoke with Scott Anderson, a senior fellow with the 88 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: National Security Law Program at Columbia Law School. He said, 89 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: we have a highly decentralized system. It's actually fairly difficult 90 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: to hijack the system because you would need to hijack 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: lots and lots of parts. Some political scholars have argued 92 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: that the twenty fifth Amendment, which allows a sitting vice 93 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: president to take over for a president who has deemed 94 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: unfit for office, could amount to a non military coup 95 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: under the right circumstances. Other individuals have argued that the 96 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: Insurrection Act of eighteen o seven somehow provides a legal 97 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: loophole that would authorize the former president to command the military, 98 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: claim that Anderson calls complete nonsense. But democracy always needs 99 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: to stay vigilant. Once the ideas in the air, a 100 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: coup becomes marginally more possible, feeding the fears and false 101 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: beliefs of a small group of extremists. That's why, as 102 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: Claus says, quote Flynn's statement was extraordinarily dangerous. Today's episode 103 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: is based on the article what is accupata and is 104 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: the U S Coup Proof? On house to works dot 105 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: com written by Joanna Thompson. Brain Stuff is production of 106 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio in partnership with hous toff works dot Com 107 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: and is produced by Tyler Clay. Four more podcasts my 108 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 109 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.