1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Group sex with little children, 2 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: mothers and fathers in groups of adults, molesting children literally 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: in the church on the altar. Well. That sounds like 4 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: a horror film to me, a horror film. In all 5 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: the child molestations I have ever investigated or prosecuted to trial, 6 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: I've never heard of anything like that. You know why, 7 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: because it didn't happen. And it pains me, as an 8 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: officer of the court, to believe this investigation went all 9 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: the way to trial. People's lives ruined forever. I am 10 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: talking about the one Natchee, Washington witch hunt crime stories 11 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Every day when I get up at 12 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: five in the morning, I've got one thing on my mind, 13 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: and that is getting through the day. When I bring 14 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: my children back home, when we have dinner together, we 15 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: have supper and we talk. It's the best thing. And 16 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: I have imagined over and over after speaking to these 17 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: mothers and fathers, being dragged away from that supper table 18 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: with my children and arrested for child rape. As we 19 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: tell you, a story like no other, except it's not 20 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: a story. This is not a show. This is your 21 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: real This happened to real people. And they are suffering 22 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: right now. But through it all, they are joining us 23 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: here today. Let's kick it off with this. Listen, brand 24 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: me through it. You're gonna see this, this, and this happened. 25 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: You've seen this happened at the church. You've seen these 26 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: kids were involved, you know, and you just stick to 27 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: basically stick to the script, right, Just say what we 28 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: want you to say, and you'll see your parents again. 29 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: But if you don't say what we want you to say, 30 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: you're never gonna see them again. And that just kept praying, Lord, 31 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: let her tell the truth. We raised her right and 32 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: let her tell the truth. Let the truth come forward. 33 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: That is just breaking my heart to hear. The voices 34 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: are Rebecca Osbourne and Connie Robertson talking about the horrible 35 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: things that have happened to them. Miles and dads being 36 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: realroaded for tom molestations and rapes that never happened. Little 37 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: children being literally forced to give statements against their own parents, 38 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: landing their parents behind bars, and living the rest of 39 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: their lives carrying around a sack of rocks on their 40 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: shoulders that they sent mommy and daddy to prison. We're 41 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: only now learning the truth of the Wenatchee witch Hunt 42 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: joining me right now. You were hearing Rebecca Osbourne and 43 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: Connie Robertson speaking with me, Amber Dogget, Sam Dogget, John Dogget, 44 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,839 Speaker 1: Carol Dogget, Mark Dogget. A family torn apart literally by 45 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: this event, Pastor Robbie Robertson, his wife Connie, Rebecca Osbourne, 46 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: you just heard her speaking and award winning journalists to Grant. 47 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: You can find him at doctor Thomas Grant dot com. 48 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Award winning journalist and the co executive producer of In 49 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: the Valley of Sin. Enough from me, Let's go to 50 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: the stars of today's program. Let me start with you, 51 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: Rebecca Osborne. We were just hearing your voice where you 52 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 1: were told you either say this or you're never seeing 53 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: your mom and dad again. And you know what, Rebecca. 54 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: Until I spoke with you and Sam and Amber and John, 55 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 1: it was hard for me to believe that all these 56 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: children had claimed child molestation but that none of it happened. 57 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm so used to defendant's trying to worm out of 58 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: a child molestation charge and children being coached to say 59 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. It was hard for me to believe 60 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. It just it's against cultrary to everything 61 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: I've ever known. When you hear and have to think 62 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: back on what happened, Rebecca, what comes to mind? Well, 63 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's just kind of the trauma 64 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: we all went through. And I know all of us 65 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: kids experienced something different, especially dependent on the ages we 66 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: were at at the time, but just those sessions that 67 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: I know we all would go through where we were 68 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: coerced and brainwashed and told what to say. And it 69 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: wasn't that we were allowed to tell the truth, you know, 70 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: we were only allowed to say what they had dictated 71 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: or what they had put in front of us to say. 72 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: But looking back on it now, you know, I'm just 73 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: so thankful for the grace of God for showing me 74 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: the truth in those moments. Praise the Lord that the 75 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: parents have been exonerated, and I hate what they have 76 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: been through. Rebecca, When you saw your mother and dad 77 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: for the first time after you had made the claims 78 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: that they molested you, what happened? Are you referring to 79 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: when I saw them in court? Yes, yes, I remember 80 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: seeing them in court that day. And pardon me, I'm 81 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: a crier when I start talking about all this, but 82 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: I'll try my best not to be a blubbering cry baby. Also, 83 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: you gotta remember Rebecca Nancy. Rebecca was only four years old. 84 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: The first time in a restaurant had ever been issued 85 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: in the state of Washington. Her four year old minor 86 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: child them trying to find her when she was running 87 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: before the state got a hold of her. Yeah, I was. 88 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: I was literally arrested when they when they took me 89 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: into custody. But when I saw my parents for the 90 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: first time in court, I remember kind of having the 91 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: thought process like, Okay, well, they said that if I 92 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: said what they wanted me to say, that I would 93 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: see my parents again. So I'm seeing them, so I 94 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: guess I have to say what they want me to 95 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: say to go home with them. I knew again, absolutely 96 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: a hundred only the grace of God when I was 97 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: all that stands and they swore me in and they said, 98 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: tell the whole truth is nothing but the truth. That 99 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: stuck with me right now, even though I was only four, 100 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: that steament stuck with me. And I just remember when 101 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: they started asking me questions, I just I just started 102 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: telling the truth, be honest to God truth, and the 103 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor was just upset. He didn't know what was going on, 104 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: because they had already talked to me right before I 105 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: went on the stand, and already had me, you know, 106 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: geared up with my script everything I was supposed to say. 107 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: And the prosecutor was just flabbery accid. He's like, I 108 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: don't even know what to do here, you know, like 109 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: he was. He was in an uproar, and everybody on 110 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: that side was just dumbfounded. And I just I just 111 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: looked him all straight in the face and I said, 112 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: my parents never did anything. They never did anything. You got, 113 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: I said, happened to me. And I'm not going to 114 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: sit here and lie because I know the difference between 115 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: the truth and a lie, and I'm not going to 116 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: lie too. Pastor Robbie Robertson, do you remember that moment 117 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: in court only too well? My wife Connie was holding 118 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: my hand and almost broke broke my hands to squeezing it. 119 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: She couldn't look up, she couldn't look at Rebecca. We 120 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: hadn't seen Rebecca in almost nine months, never was able 121 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: to talk to her all this time. They kept her 122 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: totally away from us. But yeah, I kept looking at 123 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: her and I just smiled, and every once in a while, 124 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: she would look over and and didn't say anything. Mister 125 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: Ban Sicklin told Connie's that whatever you do, do not cry, 126 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: do not cry. And we were sitting there first time 127 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: we've seen her and Nancy. It was the hardest thing 128 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: in the world to just sit there like a bump 129 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: on the log with no emotion that. It was amazing. 130 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. It was amazing watching her. I 131 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: don't know, I can't even explain it. And when she 132 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: said that what she's telling you, they flipped out and 133 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: it was unbelievable. You could see it in the jury 134 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: space every one where like Glance olvera while she was talking, 135 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: and then mister Benn stickling around lawyer. It was pretty 136 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: obvious that Captain he talked to her. It was an 137 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: unbelievable She had them wrapped around her little figure. Becky 138 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: wanted for though all of us. I'm telling you, Rebecca, 139 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: she was the trooper, a four years old, the boy. 140 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: It was amusing. Connie Robertson, pastor Robbie Robertson's wife, do 141 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: you remember the moment your daughter took the stand and said, 142 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: this did not happen. Yeah, what happened, Connie, right now 143 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: I'm quiet, so me too. And I wasn't even there. 144 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. Well, when she began to sing 145 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: her ABC song, I thought I would die. I thought 146 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: I would never hear my child again, or a Walter 147 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: birth in my arm, and I just I wanted to cry, 148 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: but Boss said don't cry. So I knew that if 149 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: I looked her in the eye, I would cry it. 150 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: When when when mister when mister van Sick, when started 151 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: cross examining Rebecca and he says, you know truth from 152 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: a line, Becky obviously yes, and you know your ABC's 153 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: and she says, yes, I do, and he says, help 154 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: let me hear it. And well, Becky goes, well, pehead, 155 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: becky 's your show, do it. I just started seeing 156 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: in my ABC's just happy, go lucky as can give 157 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: me this a b CD E F that one yea yeah, 158 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, that was it. And when mister van Sicken, 159 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: I was talking to Bob yesterday, as a matter of fact, 160 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: our attorney yesterday, and he said, when he looked and 161 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: watched that jury, when she said that, that right there 162 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: was what totally totally took that jury. They just wanted 163 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: to run over and grabbed Rebecca and hugger. But he said, 164 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: that's what absolutely just quenched it for us and destroyed 165 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: the prosecutors and what they had done. Take a listen 166 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: to this. They handed the judge Chip Small the verdict, 167 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: and they said on discount, not guilty, on discount not 168 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: guilty through twenty sometimes not guilty, not guilty. And they said, 169 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: is that the verdict of the jury. And the jury 170 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: head of the jury stood up and said, yes, your honor, 171 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: that's what it is. And so I sat down and 172 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: lifted my hands and praise the Lord, my husband. But 173 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: I thought he was going to pass out, and I 174 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: stood up to hold him up because I thought he 175 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: was going to fall. And anyway, the crowd went wild 176 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: more or less, you know, because it was not guilty. 177 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: You were hearing the reactions to a not guilty verdict 178 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: for Pastor Roberson and his wife Connie to Rebecca Osborne, 179 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: their daughter. Can you remember the moment that you guys 180 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: were reunited? I did, Yes, I do. It was actually 181 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: just a few days, if I remember correctly, before Christmas. 182 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: Um and I would get my aunt and uncle's house, 183 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: and I remember it was kind of later at night 184 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: and they came through the door and I just jumped 185 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: in board and I was just so happy. I mean, 186 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: I didn't even cry. I wasn't even sad, I wasn't 187 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: even upset. I was just so happy to see by Paris. 188 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: It was just happy, pure joy, pure joy. Crime Stories 189 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Oh, you're talking about the so called 190 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: when Natchi witch hunt and the way it has devastated lives. 191 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: I want to go to who I now considered to 192 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: be friends, the Doggett family, Amber, Sam John Carrol, and 193 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: Mark Amber. How has being forced to give testimony, to 194 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: give a statement against your mother and father, landing them 195 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: behind bars? How has that affected your life? First of all, 196 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, did your parents ever molest you? No, Nancy, 197 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: they did not. And what happened the night that I 198 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: was interrogated by Tim Abbey and Ball Perez is Immediately 199 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: after that interrogation, my little sister, Megan and I were 200 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: placed in foster care and Bob Pryce went to our 201 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: home and arrest my parents. And for a large majority 202 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: of my life since that moment, I carried the guilt 203 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: of my parents being arrested, and I blamed myself for 204 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And if I just would have been 205 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: strong and told the truth that night, then none of 206 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: us would have ever happened, and my family would have 207 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: stayed together. I disagree, Amber, As much as I have 208 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: grown to care for you, I disagree, Tom Grant. I 209 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: don't think anything would have stopped her parents getting arrested, 210 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: not even the truth. Now we can see looking back 211 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: that the truth did not stop things. They refused to 212 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: listen to anybody who told them the truth, and they 213 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: kept pressuring people until they told the police and CBS 214 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: got the lies that they wanted. And just want to 215 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: say that these two families were great families and great 216 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: families before this happened. That they were destroyed by what 217 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: Child Protective Services then when actually police did to them. 218 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: And I'm so sad that that happened. Amber. Your life 219 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: has been altered like everyone's because of this, the guilt 220 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: of thinking as a little girl you somehow sent your 221 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: parents to jail. You do know it wasn't you, correct, 222 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: You do know you were just a tool of someone 223 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: else using you. I do know that, Nancy, and I 224 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: do understand that I was manipulated and used, But I 225 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: still felt guilty for a long time, and that guilt 226 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: did the too addiction and very poor health choices, very 227 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: poor relationship choices, and I was a miserable human being 228 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: for a long time. And it's taken a lot of 229 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: work to pull myself out of that and to a 230 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: lot of hours in therapy and to finally be able 231 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: to accept, um, you know what what happened to me? 232 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: And I think it's also important to understand, Nancy, is 233 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: that those five years that I was in the system, 234 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: I was being treated. I was in therapy that that 235 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: entire time, and I was being treated for trauma that 236 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: never occurred, And the trauma that was occurring during those 237 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: five years was being dismissed, ignored, and um and completely 238 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: uh just brushed aside as if as if none of 239 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: the trauma I was experiencing was happening. I was being gaslighted, 240 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: and so I was being treated for a trauma that 241 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: didn't occur, while my trauma that I was experiencing was 242 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: being ignored, and that had a very large impact on 243 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: how I was able to deal with things as an adult. 244 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: To your sister, Sam, Sam, how did your part and 245 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: this witch hunt affect to you the rest of your life? 246 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 1: I felt guilt in a different way. I felt guilty. 247 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: I never said that my parents had ever did anything 248 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: to me, but I felt guilty that because I ran away, 249 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: I had the easy way out. I took the easy 250 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: way out. I didn't stay in the system. I wasn't 251 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: abused by the system because I ran away, so I 252 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: didn't have to deal with the trauma and the abuse 253 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: that my siblings did by being stuck in that system. 254 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: And so the guilt I felt was because I took 255 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: the easy way out. And I still I still feel 256 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: that today. I feel I feel really bad that it's 257 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: just it's very disheart to mean that my siblings had 258 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: to go through that in a system that's supposed to 259 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: protect children, and I had to run away and essentially 260 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: live on the streets just to get away from it. 261 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: You know, it sounds a lot like survivor's guilt. The 262 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: one person that didn't, for instance, die in the car 263 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: crash or the one person that escaped from the house fire, 264 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: you somehow feel guilty, like it's your fault what happened 265 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: to the others. Hey, who was just jumping in? That's smart? 266 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: Jump in, Mark and everybody, if you're listening or watching 267 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: right now, Mark and Carol are Amber, Sam and John's parents. 268 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Mark, Yeah, Sam, Pine crist that's abuse. I 269 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: hear you, Sam, Sam didn't escape everything. Sam, tell me 270 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: when you decided to run away, where were you and 271 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: how old were you when you ran away from all 272 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: of this? I was sixteen, I had only been in 273 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: the system for a few months, and I was I 274 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: believe I was in a foster home, and I just 275 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: I finally just had enough. Just kept lying to me. 276 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: They wouldn't allow me to go to school. They wouldn't 277 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: allow me to I had put myself on independent study. 278 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: They wouldn't allow me to turn in my homework. They 279 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: kept lying to me about my siblings. In what way? 280 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: What were the lies? Well, they told me that my 281 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: sisters were very mad at me. They wanted me to 282 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: tell the truth. They were very upset with me, and 283 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: it hurt my heart. It hurt my heart that my sisters, 284 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: my siblings would be upset with me. And I just 285 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: didn't understand why they kept lying to me, and they 286 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,239 Speaker 1: just kept saying, you know, like everybody else says. They 287 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: just kept saying, we know your parents did this to you, 288 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: we know your dad raped you. Why don't you just 289 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: admit it? And it just disgusted me when you ran away, Sam, 290 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: where did you go? I bounced around a lot. I 291 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: went to various family friends, homes, family members, friends I 292 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: met along the way. I just moved around a lot. 293 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: And how long were you basically on the run until 294 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: I turned eighteen two years? And then I didn't have 295 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: to run anymore. And that whole time you did not 296 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: see your parents. No, when I ran away, I stuck visits. 297 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: I can't believe that having to snake visits with your 298 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: mother and father. I mean sometimes I literally count the 299 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: hours so I can pick the twins up from school. 300 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: I can't imagine sneaking visits with them. Jump in. This 301 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: is Carrol, and I do remember one time we got 302 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: Mark and I got a phone call saying that Sam 303 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: wanted to see us before she left town. And he 304 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: this friend had arranged a secret meeting between us up 305 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: in the mountain that somebody's cabin, and so Mark and 306 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: I drove up there late at night. It was scary, 307 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: like literally, we were so afraid that we would get caught, 308 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: and we were just out on bond. Bond I think 309 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: it was before sentencing, and so we were getting ready 310 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: to go, you know, we were going to be sent 311 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: to prison, and Sam was on the run, and here 312 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: we were having this this late night, surreptitious meeting up 313 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: in some cabin in the woods, just scared that we 314 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: were going to get caught, and just hugging and you know, 315 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: like just trying to cling to each other as long 316 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: as we could until we were all separated again. When 317 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: you heard the verdict, Carol, what happened? What went through 318 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: your mind? I was furious, literally furious, and I just 319 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: wanted to scream at the jury because we were convicted 320 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: on Megan, the only child that hadn't even made any 321 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: accusations against us until after trial started, and we were 322 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: expecting for her to do what Rebecca did, get up 323 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: on the stand and tell the truth, because she had 324 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: not made any accusations against us, but after the trial started, 325 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: they had gotten to her because she had had a 326 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: coposcopic examination that showed she had a notch on her 327 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: hymen and a notches and evidence of abuse at all. 328 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: But they told her that it was they convinced her. 329 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: They convinced her after the trial started that she had 330 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: been abused and if she would just say it, on 331 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: the witness stand. If she would just say that she 332 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: had been abused, then we would get treatment. That's what 333 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: they told her. Her parents would get treatment for six 334 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: months and then she could go home. And this little 335 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: girl wanted to go home so badly that she had 336 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: run away from her foster parents at one point, trying 337 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: to chase a friend down the street to get her 338 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: to take her home. Like Megan had literally climbed into 339 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: a friend's van and begged her to go home. That's 340 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: how badly she wanted to go home. And they got 341 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: her to finally cave in and say that we had 342 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: touched her between the lakes. When she got up on 343 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: the witness stand. I was devastated, And so when we 344 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: were convicted by the jury, I just wanted to scream 345 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: at them. I just wanted to scream, don't you see 346 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: what you've done? Like, didn't you believe her when she 347 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: said she wanted to go home and that she didn't 348 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: remember until after they had just there. There's a word 349 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: for this what they did to those kids, manipulation, showing 350 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: them those dirty books, and it's called grooming. That's what 351 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: they did. They were the offenders, they were the abusers. 352 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: And they groomed these kids and it's it's the most 353 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: horrible thing I could imagine in life. Robbie, here, Nancy. 354 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: The thing that made the difference between Megan and Rebecca 355 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: was one person, their attorney, mister Van Sicklin, had an 356 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to speak to Rebecca just before she went on 357 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: the witness man and mister Van Sicklin more or less 358 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: kind of just had a good rapport and it was obvious. 359 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: Bob told us that he had a good visit with 360 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: her and he was hoping things would go right. And 361 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you with all the people, I mean, 362 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: I talked to all the kids, that all the family, 363 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: and that's why a lot of the lawsuits that were 364 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: settled afterwards were against public defenders, and money was obtained 365 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: by some of these folks because they didn't have a defense. 366 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: None of these attorneys bothered to I guarantee you Mark 367 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: and Carol Dogget's attorney did not go and sit with 368 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: Megan and say, Megan, this is really important, your mom 369 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: and dad really love you, and blah blah blah. I 370 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: can guarantee you that did not happen. And I'll bet 371 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: you Mark and Carroll will actually validate that. Speaking of 372 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: Carol and Mark dogget the mother and father who really 373 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: bore a brunt of this. Mark, can you remember when 374 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: the jury verdict was announced, what happened? What went through 375 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: your mind? You're already in la la land because this 376 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't all be happening, and then it was just unreal. 377 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't I was probably in shock to some extent 378 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: because I remember they say the sentence in the yeah, 379 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: the verdict. It was like unbelievable. But I still believe that, 380 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, nothing happened. So eventually this has got to 381 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: be cleared up. Crime stories. With Nancy Grace joining me, 382 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: is John Doggett, this is Carol and Mark's son. John, 383 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: tell me your story what happened? And Nancy, that's a 384 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: that's a big question. A lot happened, um, a lot. 385 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: Like my sister Amber, I carried the guilt because I 386 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: sat on the witness stand looking at my parents and 387 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: and said they did things to me that I knew weren't. 388 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: I stared at the ground and told the lies that 389 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: I had been groomed to tell, and knowing that that's 390 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: one of the things, well, now I know that it 391 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: didn't send them to prison. But at the time, I mean, 392 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: this was front page news every day in our town. 393 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: I was going to school. I just I sent my 394 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: parents to prison, and living with that has been hard 395 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: ever since. It's it's a horrible way to live with 396 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: that guilt from such a young age. Do you remember 397 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: looking at your parents during the trial? Briefly when I 398 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: when I first got in and sat on the witness stand, 399 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: I looked at them and I actually remember thinking that 400 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: my dad was my mom's lawyer, because he had shaved 401 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: so that he could look presentable in court and not 402 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: like himself, and I didn't even recognize him. How long 403 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: How long had you been apart? Oh, at that time 404 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: it had been months already. I don't remember exactly how 405 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: long it was. Let me ask you a question. How 406 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: old was Megan was she was put on the stand? 407 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: She was nine? But nine? Yeah, guys, take a listen 408 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: to this. And then one day, while we were in prison, 409 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: we got word that Sam was in a terrible car 410 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: accident in California and she was injured and she was 411 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: in a coma, and I was frantic. I remember strapping in. 412 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: I remember driving a little bit, and it was rainy 413 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: and stormy and that's it. So as you were hearing, Sam, 414 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: isn't a crash a horrible crash? Can you imagine being 415 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: behind bars and you find out you're a girl, the 416 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: one that you risked everything for the secret meeting in 417 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: a mountain cabin while you're out on bond and you 418 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: swore you wouldn't get in touch with your children, but 419 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,239 Speaker 1: you want to see you're so bad and hold her 420 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: one more time? You do it anyway, that daughter horrible crash. 421 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Listen to this. She won an insurance settlement after that accident. 422 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: That accident was a miracle. It honestly was a miracle. 423 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: Sam got the settlement money and I was like, don't 424 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: spend it on us, So why don't mom to stop. 425 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm getting you out. That's what's good for me. And 426 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: I was like, what's good for you? This is good 427 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: for me getting my parents back. I was like okay, 428 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, she was hiring us 429 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: an Appellet attorney from New York. Sam, you're in this 430 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: horrible crash, and guys, I want to remind you of 431 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: something for the Robertson family, they are still struggling horribly 432 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: in so many ways. There is a PayPal for them 433 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: Robertson Recovery PayPal. You can go to Robertson at telvar 434 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: dot com. I want to go back to Sam Dogget. 435 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: You have the crash, you lived through the crash, you 436 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: get an assurance settlement. How did you decide? No question, 437 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: You're using the money to get your parents out of 438 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: jail if that can be done. Like you said, there 439 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: was no question about it. As soon as I found 440 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: out that I was receiving this sum of money, I 441 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: was like, yes, I didn't get my parents out. I'm 442 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: going to hire a real attorney and get my parents out. 443 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: And I did not go to the state of Washington. 444 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: There was no way in heck I was letting that happen. 445 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: And I did not go to the state of Washington. 446 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: There was no way in heck I was letting that happen. 447 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: You know, I'm really overwhelmed. Carol, Guys, Carol is Sam's mom. 448 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: Carol says she tells her daughter, don't spend it on me. 449 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: Don't you know a mother's love, Carol, There's nothing like it. 450 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: Is there? Oh no, no, there's nothing like it. I 451 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: love my children more than anybody on the planet. And 452 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: and I just I just always want what's best for them. Seriously, 453 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: I have to say that, um, that I didn't want 454 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: Sam to spend the money on me. I wanted her 455 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: to get herself, you know, started in life. And I 456 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: knew that I would get out of prison eventually. And um, 457 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: but when she did make the decision to hire an attorney, 458 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: told me about it afterwards, she said, I hired this attorney, 459 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: and I was. I was so proud of her. And 460 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: it wasn't because she was getting me out. Is because 461 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: she would do that with her money, that she would 462 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: spend her money to get an innocent woman, her mom 463 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: out of prison. And I was just really proud of her. 464 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: I just thought she was so generous and and and 465 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: beautiful and that she that she loved me that much, 466 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: and it just really it was it was a beautiful 467 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: thing for her to do, and it worked. He did 468 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: get us out. Take a listen to this. I wheeled 469 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: out with all of my possessions and I was out 470 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: of there. I'm happy to be out. Other nearby prisoners 471 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: were yelling to Mark, we see your wife. We see 472 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: your wife. She's out. She's out. You're gonna be out, 473 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: You're gonna be out. I'm going to be reunited with 474 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: my husband and my children, and I'm very happy to 475 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: be released. You walk out the gate, you know, and 476 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: there's all cameras and all this stuff. Yeah it's bizarre. Yeah, 477 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's the beginning of the second phase. And 478 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: we got our freedom. Now we get our kids. Time 479 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. I'm happy to be out. Other 480 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: nearby prisoners were yelling to Mark, we see your wife. 481 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: We see your wife. She's out, she's out. You're gonna 482 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: be out, You're gonna be out. I'm gonna be reunited 483 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,719 Speaker 1: with my husband and my children, and I'm very happy 484 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: to be released. You walk out the gate, you know, 485 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: there's all cameras and all this stuff. Yeah it's bizarre. Yeah, 486 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's the beginning of the second phase. You 487 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: we got our freedom, Now we get our kids. It 488 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: wasn't that easy getting their children back. Guys, you've heard 489 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: about Megan, Megan who took the stand at just nine 490 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: years old. I want you to take a listen to 491 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: our cut thirty three. Unfortunately, Megan came out of things 492 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: very confused. Megan was our younger sister and she was 493 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: nine at the time that my parents were arrested. She 494 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: finally got to a point where she felt safe enough 495 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: to tell the truth. Megan bro a letter to this 496 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: teacher that she trusted and recanted. She said that she 497 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: had never been abused by her parents. Every time a 498 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: child told the truth, they got in trouble, almost without exception. 499 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: After Megan recanted in that letter, her foster parents kicked 500 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: her out of their house. The repercussions that Megan faced 501 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: after recanting were so severe that she quickly went back 502 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: to saying that she had been abused um and and 503 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: she stuck with that. To Tom Grant, the co executive 504 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: producer of In the Valley of Sin, what repercussions did 505 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: this little nine year old girl face when she writes 506 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: a letter to the teacher saying this never happened to me. 507 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: She's living in a home with foster parents who have 508 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: who thrive and because and rewarded, because she's of sexual abuse, 509 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: and when she when she recants, you know, it undermines 510 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: their whole belief about her and everything, and they can't 511 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: just accept her as a person, and so they have to, 512 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, punish her. And it's the system punishes her 513 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: because they feel it well, if these foster parents weren't 514 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: maintaining the the you know, their version of the truth, 515 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: and then she must there must be something wrong with them. 516 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: So you understand how the round has punished every time 517 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: that the system finds some kind of disappointment. And this 518 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: is tremendously troubling because our system should be there to 519 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: protect the children, and instead they're harming them and causing 520 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: them immense amounts of pain and trauma. And I just 521 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: this is this is Amer speaking, and I just need 522 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: to jump in here because it is more insidious than 523 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: that Nancy. The foster home that she was at. I 524 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: lived in that home with her for a short amount 525 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,959 Speaker 1: of time after our parents were sentenced and sent away 526 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: to prison, and I the father, and that foster home 527 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: was a state trooper and friends with many police officers. 528 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: They would have police officers over to their house for barbecues. 529 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: We you know, they socialized with Bob Perez. And I 530 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: ran away from that foster home. And when they picked 531 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: me up and brought me back, and they asked me 532 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,359 Speaker 1: why I had run away, I told them that it 533 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: was because I hated Bile Perez, and they immediately threw 534 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: me out of their house and said, I don't want 535 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: this girl in my house anymore. And so it's not 536 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: just that that Megan, you know, their excuse for kicking 537 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: Megan out of the house was that she had led 538 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: to them and all of that, But it was it 539 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: was very, very obviously eight years earlier, and they were 540 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: they were in close ties with the police officers involved 541 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: in the case. I'm just thinking about my own children 542 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: at age nine and how tender and naive and innocent 543 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: they were at nine and still are at thirteen. This 544 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: nine year old girl tries to tell her teacher I 545 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: was never molested. She's immediately she's already been torn away 546 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: from her parents, groomed. Then she gets it thrown out 547 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: of the foster home because she's trying to recant her stories. 548 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: Almost too much for a child to undergo. And I'm 549 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: heartbroken to state that Megan was never the same after that. 550 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: Listen never did get her back as Megan. They were 551 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: able to pretty much completely brainwash her to the point 552 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: where she didn't know if she had been abused or not. 553 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: She never called me mom again, never threw her arms 554 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: around my neck, she never bonded again. It pretty much 555 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: broke me and to make matters worse, there will never 556 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: be a chance to fix it. Listen, I got a 557 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: phone call out of the blue one afternoon that Megan 558 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: had an accident. She was swimming with a youth group. 559 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: She was twenty one, and a couple of the younger 560 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: girls that they were with started drowning, so Megan jumped 561 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: in to rescue them. The two girls were okay, and 562 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: Megan ended up dying. I had to call my dad 563 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 1: and my sisters and told them that she was dead. 564 00:40:49,640 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: They felt very, very strong feeling inside. Megan killed me. 565 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: She knew a good truthful to Sam Dogge, the daughter 566 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: that ran away Sam. When you look back on what 567 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Megan endured, the fact that she never rebonded with her parents, 568 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: she didn't know whether she had been molested or not molested. 569 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: The years she spent in foster being told over and 570 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: over and over, this happened to you, this happened to you. 571 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 1: Kicked out when she tried to recant, and now she's 572 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: gone and it can never be fixed. It's just so 573 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: hard to take in. I want to hear your thoughts. 574 00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking and infuriating that they took her 575 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: from us and we'll never get the chance in this 576 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: lifetime to have our Megan back. She was our Megan, 577 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: she was our baby. We all loved her. She was 578 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: the youngest. And it disgusts me and just makes me 579 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: so mad what they did to her, how they messed 580 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: with her mind and her memories and her heart to 581 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: turn her against us like that. It just makes me sick. 582 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: Carol Dogget the mom When you think about Megan, now, 583 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: how do you feel? What do you think? It might 584 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: sound kind of crazy, but I just I can't stop 585 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: trying to bond with her. You know, I have pictures 586 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: of her everywhere, and I have her artwork, and I 587 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,240 Speaker 1: just I'm looking at one of her pictures right now 588 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: and I just always I just want her with me. 589 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 1: And um, and I asked if she'll come to me 590 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: in dreams, and I just I would do anything to 591 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: see her again. Does she come to you in dreams? 592 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: She has, Actually she has a couple of times. What 593 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: happened and um, and she's been she's been happy and uh, 594 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: and acts just normal, you know, like bringing in the 595 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: groceries and it's and it's just normal. And I wake 596 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: up I wake up feeling very very happy like she 597 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: has reached out to me and that and that she 598 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: does still have a connection. What about e Mark. Oh, 599 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm convinced. I had a moment that at the 600 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: end uh Megan's wake, it was pretty much over, and 601 00:43:54,080 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: I was sitting in my friend's backyard and I felt, 602 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: I felt made and I felt she was tom me 603 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: She's okay. So all hold onto that. And it's much 604 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,879 Speaker 1: like Carl said, she's she's reaching out, she knows, she's 605 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: letting us know she's okay, and we'll see her again, 606 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: God willing. When an injustice occurs, the wake it leaves 607 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: behind never ends. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off Goodbye friend,