1 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Rosi O'Donnell and we are in November. 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: Can you believe that we're in November? And my kiddo 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: did thinks it's very funny to say that Thanksgiving is 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: the middle child between October and Christmas. That's what they 5 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: said to me last night. I'm like, I suppose that 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: is true. So we lost Matthew Perry. And you know, 7 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to get to know him during 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: COVID when we both were in a group that you know, 9 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: got together and zoomed and we're still together the group 10 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: and we check in in the morning and at night, 11 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: and so it was a privilege to get to know 12 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: him and to love him, and to watch him fate 13 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: so hard, you know, for his health in every way, 14 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: and he's a champion. He's a champion. And so many 15 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: of us, nearly all of us, have someone that we 16 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: love who struggles with addiction, a disease of addiction, and 17 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: it's so easy to just say they lack the willpower, 18 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: they are somehow morally corruptible. It's just a lie, you know, 19 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: it's just a lie. It's a disease. And I think 20 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: his body had just had enough. You know, read his book. 21 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: It's beautiful, That's what I can say. Read his book, 22 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: and he was a beautiful, beautiful man. He was an 23 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: amazing man, and that book tells you all about who 24 00:01:54,440 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: he is from you know, his own heart. Yeah, onward, onward. 25 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: What do you do. It's so hard when you lose 26 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: a friend, and especially when somehow the friend is younger 27 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: than you. It's hard for me to believe that so 28 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: much has changed since I was a kid, and so 29 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: much hasn't. I remember being horrified at the war in 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: Vietnam and it was on TV and I was a 31 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: little kid. I couldn't get away from it, so I 32 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: stopped watching the news. And I kind of have to 33 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: do that now. Self preservation, you know, stay informed, but 34 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: don't overload all your circuits all the time and try 35 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: to fix things that are not ours to fix. Right, 36 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: as they say in all the AA programs, the wisdom 37 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: to know the difference, right that things I can and 38 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference. But 39 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm inspired so many people, and that's what I'm trying 40 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: to now. Just absorb, stay present. I'm in my life, 41 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: I'm a grown up. I'm here, this is happening. We've 42 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: gotten through all the other tough days. We'll get through these. 43 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: You know, I have no answers. Nobody has the answers 44 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: other than other than you know, survive today, survive tomorrow. 45 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: But I don't have any answers. And I know everybody's 46 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: in pain and everybody's raw, and I'm respecting everyone's need 47 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: for peace right now, including my own. 48 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: You know. 49 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a good Joe, really good Joe. A 50 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: friend of mine, Cheryl Dounie, who is a world renowned 51 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: African American director, writer, and actor, and we met on 52 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: the set of American Jigelo. She was a guest director, 53 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: but I knew of her from her very first film, 54 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: Watermelon Woman, which was a groundbreaking self produced movie that 55 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: opened a whole new genre in film. And sometimes you 56 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: don't know something is missing until someone shows it to you. 57 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what Watermelon Woman did, just one 58 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: woman's quest to be truly represented on film. And it's 59 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: now part of the permanent collection of Cinema at the 60 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: Museum of Modern Art. Yes, MoMA has chosen Watermelon Woman 61 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: as part of their permanent collection, and that's pretty amazing. 62 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: One note, when we take this it was right after 63 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: the writer's strike had ended, and we had very high 64 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: hopes that seg after was going to end right away. 65 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: But we are still fighting for the good fight, stronger 66 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: than ever we can hold on. I'm SAG and AFTRA 67 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: and I'm so proud of you, Fran Dresser, the president 68 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: of Screen Actors Guild and AFTRA, and I love you 69 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: very much, and I'm so proud of how you're standing 70 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: tall and fighting for all of us. Right right now 71 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: here we are, me and my friend Cheryl Dunier. Hey, 72 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: Cheryl Dunier, how are you. 73 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: I am blessed and happy and happy to be here 74 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: with you. 75 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, very good to see you. We got to work 76 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: together on American Jiggielow and ill fated, discombobulated show that 77 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: you and I were there when they sort of tore 78 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: it in half and started saying do this do that 79 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: work without a script, But we got through it and 80 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: we begin friends. Good to see you. 81 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: Onward onward we went, Yes, we did answer that, and 82 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: you know it was it was Shows can be hard, 83 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: really can be hard. I mean, I'm glad that things 84 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: are being renegotiated right now and have landed in favor 85 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: of the people, people who really bring bring shows to life. 86 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: Who are you know, the directors, the actors fingers crossed 87 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: that works out as well as the writers, you know. 88 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: So it was so shocking to me to hear that 89 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: the AMPTP thought they could do without the people who 90 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: create the things they sell. It shocked me, right, I thought, well, 91 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: surely you're not going to be able to robot this 92 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: auto room, you know what I'm saying. How how did 93 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: they think they were being able to to do it 94 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: without the ingredients that you need in the soup? 95 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: I have no idea. It is all about capitalism, it 96 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: is all about the money. But for us, it's about talent. 97 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: So and here I am with the talented. 98 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Rosie and you, the talented you. I mean you you 99 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: had a big crossroads in your life where you were 100 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: about to become a tenured professor and you got the 101 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: bug of doing and directing episodic TV shows, right, And 102 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: is it true that the school said to you pick you. 103 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: Know, yes, yes, that's a that's a a big crossroad time. 104 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: I had just moved to the Bay Area and had 105 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: been living here for about five years. I was in LA. 106 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: I said, you know, f La, let me move up 107 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: here and being with the people and find work and 108 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: and get a job as an academic. Finally just land 109 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: instead of trying to dance between two worlds. And I 110 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: was just really going to go down that path. But 111 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: we started, you know, I did bug happened. I started 112 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: to get the itch and made some shorts that went 113 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: around and and then you know, got into the Academy. 114 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: That really was the magic moment when I got into 115 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: the Academy with that first wave of new directors that 116 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: came in, and met Ava du Rene who was doing 117 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 2: Queen Sugar, and you know, the rest is history there. 118 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: She said, you know, do you want to be on 119 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: the show? I said yes, and you know at my 120 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: school said no, bye. Yes, see, you wouldn't want to 121 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: be right right. 122 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: So and was it a decision that you wrestled with 123 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: or was it really well I got to go this 124 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: is what I have. 125 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: To Well, I think it was a wrestling for me 126 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: in particular that I was at this crossroad of a 127 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: moment and so was the program. And I was thinking, well, 128 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: this could be a great way to bring this to 129 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: the film program at San Francisco State University. And I 130 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: all name them and they didn't you know, it didn't 131 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: work into what they really had me there to do, 132 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: which was teach because there's a lot of students there. 133 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: I may have cut. This is like one hundred and 134 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 2: fifty students for like intro to you know, filmmaking and video. 135 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, walking on front, doing my 136 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: little Oprah hour. But but state the universities are not 137 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: funded so well, I think it goes back to the 138 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: bigger thing. And so these classes are huge and a 139 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: lot of the younger you know, faculty end up, regardless 140 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: of their talent, you know, doing things that aren't like 141 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: sitting in a lab and you know, dealing with you know, 142 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 2: negotiating to make the program bigger, they have to just 143 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: teach the bare bones. And I just was ready to 144 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: not do that again. 145 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, where did you grow up, Cheryl? So? 146 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: I grew up in Old phil I del by a 147 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: Philly Yeah yeah, yeah, I was born in Liberya. I 148 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: grew up in Philly. And U, you know, was that 149 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: little odd black girl. You know, it's like two wound 150 00:09:53,720 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 2: up and just you know, knowing my little difference. So 151 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: I was always out, you know, there was never of 152 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: the closet for me except for playing hide and seek 153 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: or you know, being in my mama or something like that. 154 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: I just never knew why not, So that was right. 155 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: Really, do you think that was some kind of self 156 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: knowledge or do you think that was the unconditional love 157 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: maybe that you had been. I mean, your family was accepting. 158 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: They were not giving you any kind of pushback. 159 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: My father was sort of traveling a lot, so he 160 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 2: was in Liberia or Boston or whatnot, so he was 161 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: sort of that part time dad. But my mom was 162 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: a full time mom. I'll tell you that. Born in 163 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty in Philadelphia and had a whole other generation 164 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: of you know what it meant to be, you know, 165 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: raise their kids and move them a step forward. So 166 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: she was doing that, but I had a whole bunch 167 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: of other stuff there, so I was just on a 168 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: different track. I was able to be that daughter for 169 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 2: her who you know, got good grades and you know, 170 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: made those decisions. But I had my whole other you know, 171 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: you know, interior light which became exterior like playing in 172 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: the street with kids. I remember, you know, having fun 173 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: with kids behind the bushes, you know, my baker at 174 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: a very young age. So but there was a moment 175 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: where those two things came together, I would say, and 176 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: not a bad way. But it was time for me 177 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: to go to college, and I literally was looking for 178 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: the most queer place I could get into, or a 179 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: lesbian place, and for some reason I chose Michigan, Michigan State, 180 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: because that's where the I got a lesbian newsletter and 181 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: it said Michigan State was the best place to go 182 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: because the Women's Music Festival was there, Michigan Women's Festival. 183 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: I was like, that must be where lesbians are. 184 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: I want to go there, I want And. 185 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: Literally when I got there was this the couple who 186 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: had the you know po box, you know, that d 187 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: of thing. 188 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: It was whenever I get hate me and I always 189 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: think of that too. It's like three people in a 190 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: studio apartment writing the letter, you know. 191 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 2: And so I just, you know, she had that talk 192 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 2: with me and she said, you know, when you go 193 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: and you're going to be there, make sure you find 194 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: a good, you know, boyfriend. And I said, well, hold, hold, 195 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: what if it's a girlfriend, well whatever, you know, and 196 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: she just kind of went rolled over it. And I 197 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: think she knew. I think she just knew, you know, 198 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: And I was already a loud person, an extrovert as 199 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: they called it in those times. 200 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: Well that's you know, that's pretty ahead of her time 201 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: for your mom. When't you say. 202 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 2: Yes from that type of you know, black billy girl. 203 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: You know, he raised, you know, in the Baptist way, 204 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: turned Catholic and just you know, real conservative democrat, you know, 205 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: hard night public school teacher. 206 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: You know that's like, yeah, that's like my family too, 207 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: and Catholic and you know, but I I never there 208 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: was never a discussion about me being gay. But I 209 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: think my mother knew as well. Now she died when 210 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: I was ten in seventy three, but right before she died, 211 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: I signed up to play drums in school and she 212 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: would not let me because she said it was a 213 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: boy's thing and I didn't have to do so many 214 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: boys things. So you know, that was the first and 215 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: only thing that I kind of remember or can pick 216 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: out about that. You know, again, I was just a 217 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: little kid, I was ten, but I was always like 218 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: a tomboy. I always played all the sports. I always, 219 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, was loudmouthed, New York little spunky kid, you know, 220 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: and without a mother and without gender defined roles in 221 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: the household, you know, there came a freedom with that 222 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: in some ways that I am you know, not happy about. Obviously, 223 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: I would rather have had my mother living and grown 224 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: up with with that kind of frame as I try 225 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: to parent myself and my children now in my sixties, 226 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: you know, it's uh, it's something that you always look towards. Now, 227 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: is your mom with us still? 228 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: Or is my My father passed the African he passed 229 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: in the late eighties, and I was, I don't know, 230 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: maybe maybe the one of the big girlfriends that I 231 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: had at that time, like the first major girlfriend relationship, 232 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: and I was just rediscovering my relationship with my father. 233 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: And I think this is like eighty seven and she, 234 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: you know, I come over to do laundry or something 235 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: like that. From college. It was now at Temple University 236 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: in Philly and living you know, around the city with girl, 237 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: you know, the Gas Street, South. 238 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: Street, Stilly l Armor Trading was always playing JO. 239 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: I mean, did I have many How many albums do 240 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: I have? 241 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: You know, every single Trading? 242 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: I had everything. See her as much as I could, 243 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: you know, and I just really was just digging into 244 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: that light. And we went over and she said, go good, 245 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: give your dad a hug, you know, and I did, 246 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: and the next day he died. So but he was 247 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: sort of my mom was the alpha, so I kind 248 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: of followed in steps of that alpha. But with that, 249 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: you know, daddy's little girl thing. And I think that 250 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: really kept me on that, you know, the track of 251 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: being somebody who followed their their visions and drives. And 252 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 2: her thing was love many, trust few, always paddle your 253 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: own canoe. She said that to me all the time. 254 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: I was like, well, that is a great little saying. 255 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: I never heard that love many, trust few always paddle 256 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: your own canoe. Yeah, that's pretty intense. 257 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: Really when I understood it, I understood it, and it 258 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: was like all right bye. 259 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: So ninety six, right when my show premiered, your feature 260 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: film debut came out The Watermelon Woman, which I remember vividly. 261 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: It was so exciting to see a film about African 262 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: American lesbian women unabashedly in love, vibrant and real. It 263 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: was the first time that you that I saw a 264 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: movie like that. It was groundbreaking, an award winning yes, yes, yes, now. 265 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: The Watermelon Woman was my you know, love child of 266 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: lots of labor. I had been working on it as 267 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: you would say, my whole life. But going back to 268 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: that sort of coming out story, I wanted to tell 269 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: a story that was about somebody who was already out. 270 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 2: You know, there was a whole big coming out thing, 271 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: even Go Fish, which was like sort of the big 272 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: thing before me. Yes, Roasterche and Gwen Turner and and 273 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: I was living in New York at that time, and 274 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: that sort of you know, little queer little baby Dyke 275 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: village of where I met, you know, somebody close to you, 276 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: lower east Side. You know, we're all doing activists, fun 277 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: stuff living, you know, living. 278 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: With artists, queer artists downtown. 279 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 2: Yes, yep, cultural producers at day and at night. You 280 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So I had to get in 281 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: the game. I had to define myself in that timeline. 282 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 2: And you know, lucky for me, I was receiving a 283 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 2: few grants. I had did a little gig at the 284 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: New Museum as a director of a show called Bad Girls. 285 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: It was all about women video artists who were doing comedy. 286 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: So it was I had put myself in the scene. 287 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: And I was just like, now's the time to do 288 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: the story about black lesbian A narrative everything doc. I 289 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 2: want to do it. Narrative, and so I looked up 290 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: you know, stories ideas. You know, I couldn't find anything 291 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 2: about black lesbians and the Black film History timeline, and 292 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: then I couldn't find anything about black lesbians in the 293 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 2: queer history timeline. Vita Russo's so you like closet, and 294 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: so I just said, let me just make it up. 295 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 2: You know, I have this history of you know, background 296 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 2: in video art and performance, and I'm comfortable in front 297 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: of the camera. I did a lot of short video work, 298 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: and so I played Cheryl the video store employee, want 299 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 2: to be filmmaker? Who I you know, I think it 300 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: just became meta, right, and there was enough there to 301 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: make the sort of use video to tell that story 302 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 2: because I knew how to be on video camp. But 303 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: but then I had to sort of figure out film 304 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: really quickly and become a screenwriter and wrote a narrative 305 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: around Cheryl's romance and situation, which is meta for the 306 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: situation I was in with my partner at the time, 307 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 2: who was a whit lesbian, and so it was it 308 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: was great, it was really great. Put it out there, 309 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: won the Teddy Award in Berlin, and you invited to 310 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 2: museums worldwide, but did not get the recognition in the 311 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 2: you know, the film the independent film world, which. 312 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: Is right, well, you were you were an outsider there, 313 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, right, you were. Who lives? Who dies? Who 314 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: tells your story? If no one's telling your story, there's 315 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: no representation of you. How do you even find where 316 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: you fit in the world and the culture and life 317 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: if your stories are not told. So this was a 318 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: groundbreaking film and in a way a mix of film, 319 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: friends and documentary all together at once. And you know, 320 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: when I saw Precious for the first time, I thought 321 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: he's done this as well. He's taking a film and 322 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: done it so raw and real that you think you're 323 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: watching a documentary. It was like a docu drama, but 324 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: but not in the way we usually think of those 325 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: two words. 326 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: Together, you know, exactly exactly. Yeah, that was a really 327 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: powerful I mean, he Lee is you know, he's also 328 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: from Billy too. Yeah, been in his presence too around 329 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: around that time of Precious. But yeah, it was is 330 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 2: important to show that I existed on my own terms 331 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: and that there was a world of black lesbians that 332 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 2: are just living you know, normal funny life. You know, 333 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: everything's funny to me too. 334 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: Everything's funny. What's the other choice? That's what I ask you. 335 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: What is the other choice? 336 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 2: Now? 337 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: How do you find now working in the confines of 338 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,239 Speaker 1: like the system, you know, like when you come in 339 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: you're obviously an independent thinker, filmmaker individual, to come in 340 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: and have kind of the lanes be so defined for 341 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: you that it almost limits your ability to drive naturally 342 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: as you do, you know, artistically, And how do you 343 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: find that? Because I thought it would be that you 344 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: would go off and just become this independent film star 345 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: making independence over and instead you kind of took took 346 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: a different turn and you're you know, shows that The Fosters, 347 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: which I was on, which you worked on as well, 348 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: and with that comes notes from producers and a lot 349 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: of involvement, you know, from other people. It's almost like 350 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: you're the artist and they're screaming more blue when you're like, 351 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: shut up on painting, you know. 352 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: Right, right, right, right right? I love that so funny. 353 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, at this moment for me 354 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: as a director on episodic television, it's very easy because 355 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 2: I am the guest. Everybody else has been on the 356 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: show for a long time. They know each other in 357 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: relationships from the crew to producers to the cast, you know, 358 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: And so a director just kind of flies in and 359 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: has gone within two weeks and they're on somebody else, 360 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 2: you know, depending on what type of show it is. 361 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 2: But for the most part, you're talking about that time. 362 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: So am I going to come in and change the system? 363 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: Or am I going to come in and be the 364 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: guest and have a lovely time and make everybody feel 365 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 2: you know, feel me and remember me and do the 366 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: best thing I can do. So it took a while 367 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: to get to that, and I think it's sure. Directors 368 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 2: a while to especially ones who are filmmakers, you know, 369 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: I mean, but they bring you in because they want 370 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 2: you as an indie filmmaker with this rich history, and 371 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 2: you know, I play with narrative and now I'm on 372 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: a lot of bigger shows, so I know, you know, 373 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 2: all the effects and this and that. So I'm very 374 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: happy at this point because it's not my show. And 375 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: I really say to everybody, I love you to death. 376 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: Complain all you want, but it's not my show. 377 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: Right exactly, Not a lot I could do. It's not 378 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: my show. I would say that to people to Some 379 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: of my friends were talking about you know, the problems 380 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: with the show, and they were like the Abos of 381 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: the seventies. I'm like, it's not my show, just a cop, 382 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: it's not my show. 383 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: It's not my show. I can't. I mean, what the 384 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 2: thing is is to make your own show, and that's 385 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 2: you know, what I'm really trying to do. But it's 386 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: about my pay grade too. Is the other thing I 387 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: was saying for the strike when I walked out another show, 388 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: this is above my pay green and let the people 389 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: you know come in. So, I mean it sounds but 390 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: I would be right there rehearsing, you know, right there, 391 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: you know, making some interesting blocking or you know, talking 392 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: to the cast to bring out you know, do my 393 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 2: little Dunia magic with them. But I was not going 394 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: to go and change the system. I was going to 395 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: deliver more options. Let's shoot the hand, let's shoot the ceiling. 396 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 2: Oh don't forget the light. You said light there, you know, 397 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: and then shoot the shoot the way that the show looks. 398 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: Because I can't go like. 399 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: Exactly, you have to talking head right, you have to 400 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: sort of follow the template already established and paint within 401 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: that frame, right. 402 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: Right, right. I mean, if I went to Bridgerton and 403 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: did you know the Junia mentary, like it just didn't work. 404 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: You know, it would not work. It just doesn't work. 405 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: So you know, how do you then do your thing 406 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 2: within the confounds of the show? I mean you figure 407 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: out perform, you figure out you know, camera location, you 408 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: figure out you know, as I said, blocking props. I mean, 409 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: directors have so much control that you know, once you 410 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: figure out, like how you know, to make them color 411 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: in a show. And as you were talking about color Bran, yeah, 412 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: bring it, bring it. 413 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Is there somebody in history that you would like 414 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: people to know more about who was like an out 415 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: black lesbian in a time when you know, I'm sure 416 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: there's many, but is there someone that you like? Oh God, 417 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. That subject is a 418 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: specific individual. 419 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: Right Well, I call myself an Audrey Lordian. Yeah, so 420 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 2: good for you, an Audrey Lordian. And I've lived by 421 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: you know, her poetry. Audrey lord you know, died in 422 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 2: the early nineties black lesbian poet, poet laud of the 423 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 2: state of New York and or ninety right before she 424 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 2: passed from cancer. You know, lived loud and proud and 425 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 2: doing the thrumples in the fifties and you know whatever 426 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: kids are calling them, you know, she was living it 427 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: then and then being radical and defining what it means 428 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: to be I have a black, feminist, lesbian agenda that's 429 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: about love and inclusion. 430 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: Right. 431 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 2: People don't know that they know her name. They can 432 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: pull out a quote or two, but do they know 433 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 2: like she was blind until the you know, legally blind 434 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: until the age of five, didn't speak and until you know, 435 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 2: she was at a public library in Harlem and uh, 436 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: the librarian read a book and Audrey said, I want 437 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 2: to read uh, and her mom Caribbean West Indian mom 438 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: was just, you know, crying. It's a miracle. So that's 439 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: the one. That's the woman, I think, And I'm doing 440 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: many things right now, great things to make that a reality. 441 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: To adapt one of her novels into a film. 442 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: And do you have anyone who you would like to 443 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: play her? 444 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: Now that's a hard one, Come. 445 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: On, Chanelle Money, I don't know who is to know? 446 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 2: Jane would be great. I mean once you, once I 447 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 2: get it together and figure out, you know who should 448 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 2: be Audrey. Kids are going to come popping life. 449 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: Yes, without a doubt, without without. 450 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 2: A doubt, without a doubt. 451 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Cheryl Donier. Now, how old 452 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: were you when you became a mom? 453 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: Thirty three? 454 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: Me too, that's what I got. Yeah, it was a 455 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: good year that year. It now, was that a big 456 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: decision for you? Were you in a partnership? Was it 457 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: something that you just wanted to do for yourself or 458 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: how did that come about? 459 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna, you know, turn back the hands of time. 460 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 2: When I you know, definitely I was thinking about being queer. 461 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: I always thought I was going to have a kid, 462 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: and I thought it happened, would imaginally happened when you 463 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 2: turned twenty one, you just started having kids. I don't 464 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 2: know where the nune's never told us the right thing, 465 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 2: I'm sure, but I definitely knew I was going to 466 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 2: have a kid. I was always making plans. I was 467 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: always sort of you know, thinking about what gay men 468 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: and even asking them to the point of like, you know, 469 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: you've got good geens, tell me whatever. Yet, especially during 470 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 2: the time of Aides, we lost so many wonderful men. 471 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: Essex Hempel was a good friend of mine. He was 472 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: like somebody who was asked, He's like, no, I can't others. 473 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 2: So it was always on my agenda, regardless of what 474 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: I was doing, and it was just finding the right moment. 475 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 2: And I said, all right, the moment's going to be 476 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: after I do like my major big thing that was 477 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 2: a watermelon woman, and uh I did it right after 478 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: that because you know, and I was a one hit 479 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 2: wonder because I'm a gold star. 480 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: Good for you, right, good for you. Yeah, that's a guy. 481 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: I have a lot of gold star lesbian's never been 482 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: with a man, and they wear it proudly, you know, 483 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: as you should, as you should. All right, do you 484 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: have a son or a daughter? 485 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: What do I have? Somemun's gender and non performing. So 486 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 2: they are living in Seattle with their partner who's also 487 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: they and uh, just starting in the world, I would say, 488 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: working as they graduated from Cooper Union in paper making. 489 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: Wow, so Cooper Union. That's a fancy. 490 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 2: Yard school there and use and useful paper making it is, right, 491 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: while figure how to put that on the map. So yeah, 492 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 2: now they're in Seattle and they're a registrar at an 493 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: art center and planning to go to grad school. And 494 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: so the partner I had at the same time that 495 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 2: samell was born where they were like, oh, I want 496 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: to do it, and so we use the same journal. 497 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: And so we have a son, and his name is Gabe, 498 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: and he too is he went to a college in 499 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: New York. I forgot the new I'm sorry. It's also 500 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: the menopausal brain. People don't believe me. 501 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: I'm with you on that, honey. I don't have to. 502 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: I think I need three more seconds when I watch 503 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: Jeopardy now it should be over sixty. You get three 504 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: more seconds stance of the question, right, yeah, Now, so 505 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: both your kids are non binary. 506 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: Well, you know, Gabe is not. He's just he hasn't 507 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: really defined himself. I think he's a gamer. So I 508 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: think he has a relationship that he's trying to figure 509 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: out with the world understood. 510 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: Well, my little one is ten, who you know, is 511 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: so magical. She has autism. She told me right after 512 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: we work together that some of her stuffed animals were 513 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: non binary. And I was like, no kidding, I said, 514 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: And what she was like nine at the time. I said, 515 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: and what does that mean? She says, they're not a 516 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: girl and they're not a boy. And I said, okay, 517 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: that's fine, that's fine with me. I said, you know, 518 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: when I was a girl, there was a thing called 519 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: a tomboy, and that's what they called people who felt 520 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: not like a girl and not like a boy. And 521 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: she goes, so that means your non binary. I said, well, 522 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: for me, I'm just gay, but some people, you know, 523 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: I understand non binary. Well, now they are? Are they them? 524 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: I almost said, she is? Are they them? But they 525 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: feel so strongly about this. It's been over a year, 526 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: and they recently asked all their friends and everyone else 527 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: in their life besides me and one friend of hers, 528 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: Judah lives away, to call her Clay to call them Clay, 529 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: and that she would like they would like me and 530 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: Judah to still call them Dakota. So it's so interesting 531 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: to be on this journey that here I am like 532 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: a lesbian icon. And my little nine year old says 533 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: to me, Mommy, some kids in my class don't even 534 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: know their own gender. I'm like, tell them to look 535 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: in the mirror when they're in the shower, right, like 536 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: a typical idiot. And she says, that's your sex, not 537 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: your gender. Sex is binary. Gender is infinite. She was nine, Cheryl, 538 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: she was nine years old. She's kind of schooling me 539 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: into readjusting my antiquated thinking and opening myself up to 540 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: seeing who they are. Because when a kid tells you 541 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: who they are, believe them. You know, you gotta believe them. 542 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 2: You have to. Yeah, I mean that's that's that's your 543 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: our future, and that's our the next gen. And we 544 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 2: just have to be there for them whatever and be 545 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: imparent them and give them what they need for the 546 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: journey after us, which is going to be a hard one. 547 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember that first love or the first time 548 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: you kissed a girl? Did your head explode? Like? 549 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 2: What? 550 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: What was that? 551 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: Like? 552 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: Did you kiss a boy before you kissed a girl? 553 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 2: I think I kissed the boy, but it didn't go well. Yeah, 554 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: I did not. 555 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: Know you were a little kid. How old were you? 556 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 2: I was maybe it was the promiscuous summer, like twelve 557 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: or thirteen and some sort of like little you know, 558 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: older than me, little boy who was sort of met 559 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: in the golf course at night, that type of thing. 560 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: We're all there playing games, and that was just day. 561 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: You know, what are you doing? I gotta go home? 562 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: It was boring, so right, escape her home. But there 563 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: was once I found, you know, figured out my lesbianism 564 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 2: and moved past my crush with you know, the Italian girl. 565 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: In high school, I found this older lesbian who I 566 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: just Nancy Pertino. I can't even say the name Nancy Pertina. 567 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: And she was an anarchist and I just at the 568 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: anarchist book shop. And she was like, I can't go 569 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 2: out with you. I can't do anything with you because 570 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: you're young. You know, come back in a year when 571 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: you when you turn eighteen. So I went back in 572 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 2: a year and I said, are you ready? And so 573 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 2: we had a summer little thing before I went to college. 574 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: You know, Good for you, yes, yes. 575 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 1: Good to her for putting up that boundary number one exactly. 576 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: Number two. Good for you for knowing what you wanted. 577 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 2: I knew what I wanted, and you know, I knew 578 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: it was something that was going to be fulfilling and 579 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: that there was desire there as well as a lifestyle 580 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: that I believed in. I think that's the whole thing too. 581 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: It's like, why why are younger generation is who they are? 582 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 2: They're they're they're they're showing together the politics. It's not 583 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 2: just about who you sleep with. You knows about how 584 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: you live your life. It's about who you you know value. 585 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 2: It's a whole bunch of social mares for them to 586 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 2: align to and and feel comfortable in the world with 587 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 2: to find a partner, because you could you could be 588 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: you can have fun with an avatar for a long time, 589 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 2: you know exactly. 590 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: Put on that virtual reality headset. They're talking about crazy crazy, 591 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: how life is so different. 592 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: Technology is the hardest thing. Yeah, it sure is. 593 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: Do you fight Did you fight that with your gamer son? 594 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: That? 595 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: You know? My kid I think is going to be 596 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: an animator or a gamer or it's all about that 597 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 1: world and the depth of knowledge is terrifying, you know. Really, 598 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: what she's able, what they are able to tell me, 599 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: is going on in the as she she says it 600 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: the object show community, because those are the kind of 601 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: shows she likes where objects have little faces and they talk, 602 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: but there are no people in it. That's what she. 603 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: Wants, just voices and just voice. 604 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: Will they call him broccoli or they call him cup 605 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: and it's a little cup and he's like, hey, how 606 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: it going. Let's walk over to the candle And they 607 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: walk over to the candle and hell over the candlelight 608 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: very much? Yeah, better put you out, you know, like 609 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: a it's a crazy little but she has a they 610 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: have a whole community that they're you know, invested in. 611 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: And I took them to VidCon, you know, which is 612 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: like Comic Con but for YouTube stars and what she watches. 613 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: And we went in there and she just cut tears 614 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: in her eyes and she looked around and she said, 615 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: these are my people. This is my culture. This is 616 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: my culture. 617 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 2: That's their culture, and they understand and they seek it 618 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 2: and they can find it online and whatnot. So Gabe 619 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: the the Gamer was at once a Brony I know that, yes, 620 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 2: and he also plays magical gathering and he was here 621 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 2: at the I was living in another place which was 622 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 2: very far away from the Bronie Cohn, but I was like, 623 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 2: I am not driving all the way out there. So 624 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 2: he dressed up in his little Bronnie outfit BART, which 625 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: is the public transportation system up here in the Bay Area, 626 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 2: all the way to the airport, hopped on a shuttle 627 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 2: to go to this con and play and sing you know, 628 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 2: the Little Bernie. 629 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: My Little Pony song. 630 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 631 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 2: I was just like, what the And that's when I 632 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 2: knew he knew what you know he? I mean, this 633 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 2: public system is long, and there are a lot of 634 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: people that get on it and say he's dressed in 635 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 2: a little purple you know, wig and minded. He was, 636 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 2: you know, in his teens at that point. But he 637 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 2: loves all the cons he loves, you know, making the 638 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: big sword out of paper. 639 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: Exactly. I got the con kid here too, exactly right, 640 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: the whole Well, Cheryl, you're delightful. I really love talking 641 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: to you. I could talk to you all day. I 642 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: can't wait till we get to work together. And hopefully 643 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: this strike will be over before we even air this podcast. 644 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: So yes, I hope I really do. And thank you 645 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: for talking to me. Thank you for coming on and 646 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: telling everybody about you and who you are and what 647 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: you do, because you're pretty phenomenal. 648 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 2: So that's after you. 649 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: After you, well, thank you, my friend. Please stick around 650 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: for some questions from you, our loyal listeners. Okay, I 651 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that. It was wonderful to talk with Cheryl, 652 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: and let me know what you think. All right, we 653 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: get some questions from you, and here's the one hit. 654 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 3: It Hi ROSI presson from Alabama. I just wanted to 655 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 3: leave you a message and let you know how much 656 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 3: I've enjoyed listening to your podcast. 657 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 1: It's triggered a walk. 658 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 3: Down Memory Lane from me. I have been rewatching like 659 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 3: your movie's a leaga of their own, the Flintstones movie, 660 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: even that ren and stimpy episode you did where you 661 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 3: voiced the bray girl. 662 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: Do you remember that? 663 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 3: And also your nephew uploading your show, your talk show 664 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 3: to YouTube. I've enjoyed those. I used to come in 665 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 3: the afternoons after school and watch your show with my mom, 666 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 3: So those are super special to me. And you know, 667 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: my question is kind of about my mom. You know, 668 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 3: growing up in the eighties and nineties, my mom was 669 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 3: always so progressive minded. She's so sweet and empathetic, sympathetic 670 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 3: to other people, and she always raised me to believe that, 671 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 3: you know, I'm no better than anybody else. We're all equal, 672 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 3: no matter of skin color, sexuality, you know, which was 673 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 3: really progressive at that point in time that we were 674 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 3: living in in Alabama, especially where we live, because, as 675 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 3: you know, in Alabama, a lot of people still have 676 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 3: really hateful ideas of the way things should be, and 677 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 3: it's just terrible, you know, and as a gay man, 678 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 3: my husband and I have faced it. You know, we 679 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 3: go out and people give us dirty looks, or you know, 680 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 3: we go to a restaurant, people get up and move tables. 681 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 3: So it makes it even worse that my mom ideologically 682 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 3: aligns herself with people that aim to hurt me and 683 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 3: my husband, who she claims to care about, you know. 684 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 3: And and since Donald Trump's presidency, over those over that 685 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 3: those four years and then even after now, I've tried 686 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 3: to remind her what she always instilled in me and 687 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 3: what she always said her beliefs were. And you know, 688 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 3: I really feel like she's been brainwashed, and I can't 689 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 3: convey that to her, you know, And it just breaks 690 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 3: my heart that she thinks the way she does now, 691 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 3: and I don't understand it. 692 00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: It's just hateful. 693 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 3: And I feel like I've kind of gotten to a 694 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 3: place where I'm ready just to kind of give up, 695 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 3: you know. And my husband and I have even talked 696 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 3: about wanting to leave this place and go somewhere more progressive, 697 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 3: so hopefully we can make that happen. But I just 698 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 3: I always thought I would just stay here forever because 699 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 3: of her, you know, And this place is just so 700 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 3: hard to be gay, and you know, I feel like 701 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: there's got to be an easier way and better place 702 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 3: to be, and I just I want to just leave 703 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 3: it all behind. I feel like, but like I said, 704 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 3: at the same time, it breaks my heart to leave 705 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 3: my mom and just to give up on that relationship. 706 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 3: But I mean, like I said, I wouldn't go out 707 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 3: and be friends with the klu Klux Klansmen. So I 708 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 3: just don't know if I can reconcile it anymore. And 709 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 3: I don't think that she gets it. I don't know. 710 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 3: I don't know. What would you do? 711 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 2: Rosie? 712 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 3: My question was, I thought you lost your mom at 713 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 3: such a young age. Do you ever wonder if you 714 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,359 Speaker 3: would have gotten along? And what if your mom were 715 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 3: still around and she took a hard right magaturn, like 716 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 3: how would you deal with that? Or you know, if 717 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 3: she was steadfast and those ideas and those beliefs, like 718 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 3: would you turn away? 719 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: Like how do you deal with that? 720 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 2: Like? 721 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know, Rosie, help me make 722 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 3: sense of it. 723 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: Preston, You're very, very cute, and I'm sorry that happened. 724 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: I really am. There's a wonderful documentary called Fox News 725 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: Brainwashed My Dad, and you have to watch that. It's 726 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: exactly about this. You know what happened when you know 727 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: sort of progressive family raised progressive beliefs, democratic usually liberal, possibly, 728 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: and somebody in the family does make a huge right turn. 729 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: Families are hard, you know, when you have trauma in 730 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: the beginning, in the setup, in the very structure of 731 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: the family, you know, it's difficult to overcome. But it's possible. 732 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 1: It's possible. Preston. Here's what I say. It is easier 733 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: to be gay in a different place than where you are. 734 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: And I hope that you find a place where you 735 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: and your husband can can thrive and be a part 736 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: of a community and feel all that love that has 737 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: been missing since your mom went maga. I wish you 738 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: nothing but luck and love. And you sound like an 739 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: amazing human. And thank you very much for picking up 740 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: my station here on this new fangled podcast thing. Thank you, Preston. 741 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: Question number two hit it Hello. 742 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 4: I can't believe you were in London and you didn't 743 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 4: get in touch to have out coffee. 744 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 2: It's all right. 745 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 4: You mentioned Candy Corn. I miss Candy Corn anyway. I 746 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,000 Speaker 4: will not go near Candy Corn. I don't even know 747 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,479 Speaker 4: it's in Candy Corn? Should I say can to Corn? 748 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: Again? 749 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 4: Enjoying your podcast still and I'm thinking, what question did 750 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 4: I have? I don't have a question. I just always like, 751 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 4: I just want to talk, okay, looking forward to the 752 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 4: next next Tuesday, for the next podcast. And yeah, I 753 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,919 Speaker 4: also feel the same about all the news going on, 754 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 4: and I just, you know, I just stay in my 755 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 4: head creating and oh man, that's it. What kind of 756 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 4: art are you making? What are you working on? Are 757 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 4: you sewing? Are you painting? Yeah, share some of your artwork. Okay, bye? 758 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 4: Did I say it's Meryl? Bye? 759 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: Okay, Meryll. We're definitely having coffee because you're a freaking riot. 760 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't really have a question. I'd just like to 761 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: talk well, merrily, You've come to the right place. I too, 762 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: go often to dissociation with my artistic endeavors. I start 763 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: blasting Joni Mitchell as loud as it will go, and 764 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: I just paint. And sometimes it's stuff to get out 765 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: of me. Sometimes it's to sort of get rid of 766 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,359 Speaker 1: the images that are in my head. If I paint them, 767 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: then then you know, they don't haunt me as much. 768 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 2: I don't know. 769 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: I sew things together, you know, like little scrap book 770 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: pages with the sewing machines sometimes, and you know, it's 771 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: like a whole lot of OCD esque journaling and and 772 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: mental health, you know, and that's what I have to do. 773 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: I would love to say I'm fine with this and 774 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: then everybody let's move on with her. I'm not fine 775 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: with any of it, and I don't have the answers, 776 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: and I'm just a person, and who asked me anyway. 777 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 1: So there are smarter minds than this one that are 778 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: the ones we should be listening to. And I'm looking 779 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: to to listen to some inspiring stuff. So yeah, make 780 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 1: art Merrill, keep being you. You're very funny, Meryl in 781 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: three times with the question way to go. If you 782 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: want to leave your own voice message for me, you 783 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: can send it in a voice memo to Onward Rosie 784 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Next week, Onward, we have the 785 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: amazing Alexandra Pelosi who just released her fifteenth documentary and 786 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: they're all freaking amazing. This one I absolutely loved and 787 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: I think it should be required viewing for all of America. 788 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: It's called The Insurrectionist next Door, which she produced, directed, 789 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: and shot herself. She spends time with and interviews several 790 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,720 Speaker 1: individuals charged with crimes so participating in the January sixth 791 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol, even asking some point blank, hey, 792 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,240 Speaker 1: did you go to the capital to assassinate my mother? 793 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it's a mind blowing documentary, and watch 794 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: it if you can this week before Tuesday, because I 795 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: think you're going to love the conversation. Alexandra Pelosi is 796 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: next week with the documentary The Insurrectionist next Door. Hey, everybody, 797 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: take care of your hearts please, and each other peace.