Speaker 1: Welcome everyone.
Speaker 2: This is NY and TJ.
Speaker 1: And this is actually a very special anniversary. I know
Speaker 1: that how many years have you been in the business
Speaker 1: covering events? And twenty five twenty five years, twenty seven
Speaker 1: plus for me, Can you recall TJ ever covering a
Speaker 1: plane crash where anyone survived?
Speaker 3: That is, I can only remember one. I'm trying to
Speaker 3: think of another, um and that's tough right now, I
Speaker 3: can't come up with it right.
Speaker 1: You're looking for a survivor, if anyone survived. But I
Speaker 1: think we all can remember fifteen years ago. That's the
Speaker 1: crazy part where there was a plane crash and you
Speaker 1: didn't just have some survivors or a survivor, but you
Speaker 1: had one hundred fifty five survivors. Everyone on board, passengers
Speaker 1: and crew survive. Of course, we are talking about the
Speaker 1: miracle on the Hudson, and I covered it. I was
Speaker 1: with another network, just from the desk as an anchor.
Speaker 1: You were actually on the ground. You were at CNN
Speaker 1: when this all went I.
Speaker 3: Was, yeah. So I was in Atlanta with CNN, which
Speaker 3: was where most of the shows are coming out of
Speaker 3: at that time, and it was an easy flight over
Speaker 3: to Charlotte because Charlotte is where that plane was headed,
Speaker 3: and so many folks on that plane were trying to
Speaker 3: get home, So they didn't make it on that flight.
Speaker 3: At least a lot of them caught the next one,
Speaker 3: and I was there to receive them at the airport
Speaker 3: in Charlotte. When Yeah, those survivors, it's crazy to think
Speaker 3: you were just in a plane crash and then you
Speaker 3: ran and got onto the plane.
Speaker 1: Some of them did some of that, not everyone did.
Speaker 4: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: Would you have done that?
Speaker 1: Would you have jumped on a plane right after?
Speaker 3: You know what? I think? So, because what are the chants?
Speaker 3: There's no way I'm going to be involved in two
Speaker 3: plane crashes.
Speaker 1: Lightning doesn't strike twice back to back day.
Speaker 3: There's no way. And plus I know how you are.
Speaker 3: I am sure you would have gotten on a plane.
Speaker 3: I am sure because I got to get home the schedule,
Speaker 3: you got a plan. I am sure you would have
Speaker 3: gotten on a plane.
Speaker 1: Well, it is, and it continues to be an unthinkable miracle. Actually,
Speaker 1: of course, Captain Sully Sullenberg safely landing US Airways fifteen
Speaker 1: forty nine in the icy Hudson River. I think it
Speaker 1: was like twenty something degrees outside that day, a flock
Speaker 1: of geese in case you don't remember, took out his
Speaker 1: engines and forced a crash landing, and incredibly, Sully as
Speaker 1: he is affectionately referred, landed that plane on the Hudson
Speaker 1: and everyone made it out okay. And it is a
Speaker 1: story that we don't want to forget because there aren't
Speaker 1: many stories like this that have this kind of ending.
Speaker 1: And it's not even just about the miracle of the landing.
Speaker 1: But I think what's really remarkable about this story is
Speaker 1: it fifteen years later. It's not the crash, it's what
Speaker 1: happened after the crash to so many of these survivors.
Speaker 1: When you go through something that is truly a near
Speaker 1: death experience, you don't live the same way that you
Speaker 1: did before. And I spoke to one of the survivors
Speaker 1: way back, and I'll never forget this woman. She said
Speaker 1: to me, everyone at some point in their life has
Speaker 1: their plane crash. It's what you do with your life
Speaker 1: afterwards that counts. And so we have two of the
Speaker 1: survivors from that incredible miracle like fifteen forty nine with
Speaker 1: us today on this podcast, fifteen years later to the date,
Speaker 1: to not only talk about what they went through, but
Speaker 1: how this impacted and changed their lives forever, how they
Speaker 1: live differently. So we want to welcome Jim Whittaker and
Speaker 1: Valley Collins to the podcast to honor what they went
Speaker 1: through and to talk about where they are are now
Speaker 1: because it is such an incredible journey to get to
Speaker 1: this day.
Speaker 2: So welcome.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, Jim and Valley, Hi, thanks
Speaker 1: for having us.
Speaker 4: Hey, folks, thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 3: Well, Jim, I'll ask you, we were just kind of
Speaker 3: joking here about whether or not we would have gotten
Speaker 3: on a plane right after that. Is this right you?
Speaker 3: I think you've told this story over the years. Not
Speaker 3: only did you get on a plane pretty soon, you
Speaker 3: were lit to RelA on the phone trying to book
Speaker 3: another flight, very very soon, maybe even while the plane
Speaker 3: was still sitting there on the hutst and you hadn't
Speaker 3: even gotten the dry land yet.
Speaker 4: I have flown a few flights and I mistakenly thought
Speaker 4: US Airways would be ready for a crash and to
Speaker 4: rebook survivors. But I was wrong every single day. So yeah,
Speaker 4: when I first called US Airways at the time, US
Speaker 4: are Ways, it was very funny because I did call
Speaker 4: and say, hey, I'm a crash survivor. I'd like to
Speaker 4: get on another airplane, and they didn't get it. They
Speaker 4: thought it was a sicker joke than normal, because it literally,
Speaker 4: by the time I called, had not even made it
Speaker 4: to the wire yet inside of the carrier, which was
Speaker 4: beyond bizarre. And then by the time we even got
Speaker 4: to the airport later that night, those folks at the
Speaker 4: counter still didn't know there had been an airplane crash.
Speaker 4: And all I had for an ID was a library
Speaker 4: card and we wanted to get on an airplane and
Speaker 4: go home.
Speaker 3: But I'm still struggling of your mindset. You just went
Speaker 3: through something that traumatic and you don't even have time
Speaker 3: to process it before you were literally trying to get
Speaker 3: back on another plane.
Speaker 4: Well, I was defective before I was only a little
Speaker 4: bit more defective.
Speaker 1: That's a great And you know, Jim, I don't know
Speaker 1: that you know this, but I believe you and TJ
Speaker 1: might have met fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3: That was, and I might have interviewed you because I
Speaker 3: was there at the Charlotte Airport waiting on that plane
Speaker 3: to land, and it was we were all waiting, so
Speaker 3: many reporters and photographers were there like, we don't know
Speaker 3: which ones are going to be the survivors, Like what
Speaker 3: does a plane crash survivor look like? We're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: which ones are going to be? It was not easy
Speaker 3: to identify, hard to identify you guys, because you were
Speaker 3: wearing Red Cross blankets as like a badge of honor
Speaker 3: when you got out. And also most of y'all were
Speaker 3: half drunk. They were giving y'all free drinks on the
Speaker 3: flight on the way, which they should have, but you
Speaker 3: all got all You're the happiest plane crash survivors I'd
Speaker 3: ever seen.
Speaker 4: Well, I think it was the Red Cross blanket that
Speaker 4: did it, tj. That may be a matter of opinion.
Speaker 4: Was but it was the free swag from having been
Speaker 4: a crash survivor getting a Red Cross blanket to some
Speaker 4: kind of gold star.
Speaker 1: And Jim, you said your clothing was still wet when
Speaker 1: you got off that plane.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was being chilly, but it's true and Valley
Speaker 4: would know the same story. But by the time the
Speaker 4: plane stopped moving in the river inside was taking on
Speaker 4: water very quickly. So having survived to an airplane crashed,
Speaker 4: the next scare was I really don't want to drown
Speaker 4: floating down the river in the middle of the winter.
Speaker 4: So yeah, we were all plenty of wet on the
Speaker 4: inset before we got off the airplane and were rescued
Speaker 4: to the shoreline. But then something about walking around the
Speaker 4: rest of the day in wet clothes, it's just really
Speaker 4: not a cool feeling. So I was free to go home.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine and Valley. I was actually able
Speaker 1: to speak to both of you a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: which was it's pretty awesome to be able to come
Speaker 1: back five years later and see how you're doing. But
Speaker 1: I remember I asked you what your seat number was,
Speaker 1: twenty six D. You'll never forget that, never as long
Speaker 1: as I live.
Speaker 2: No, actually my seat was twenty sixty was my assigned seat.
Speaker 2: But after the birds hit, I got up in the
Speaker 2: aisle because the flight attendant was trying to get something
Speaker 2: behind my seat, and the empty seat next to me
Speaker 2: was twenty six E. Because we had one baby on boards,
Speaker 2: we had an empty seat, so the flight attendant told
Speaker 2: me to sit in that middle seat. So I started
Speaker 2: in twenty six DY, but I landed in twenty six E.
Speaker 2: I still claim twenty six.
Speaker 3: D landed, landed.
Speaker 2: How azing is that?
Speaker 1: Landing on the Hudson not just your regular runway. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you both in Valley. I'll start with you.
Speaker 1: What is it like to hear the phrase coming from
Speaker 1: the captain of the plane brace for impact? What's the
Speaker 1: first thing you think? What's the first thing you do?
Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I thought the gentleman at the window.
Speaker 2: He had been looking out and he told me we
Speaker 2: were going into the river, So I you know, he said,
Speaker 2: be ready, we're going in the water. So like right
Speaker 2: about the time that Sullenberger said brace for impact. So
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking airplane water landing. This plane's going to cartwheel,
Speaker 2: gonna bust into a lot of pieces. So, Valley, if
Speaker 2: you're conscious, just swim to the light. That's just what
Speaker 2: I told myselone. I'm a person I always wmot have
Speaker 2: a plan, and that was my plan that if I
Speaker 2: was awake and conscious, just well the seat, you know,
Speaker 2: unbuckle the seat belt and start swimming towards the light. Now,
Speaker 2: before the brace for impact comment or you know, hea
Speaker 2: announcer from Sullenberger, I was pretty aware we were in
Speaker 2: a dire situation. My seat mate had told me there
Speaker 2: was birds. I could smell the smoke. We didn't have
Speaker 2: any other thrusts, so, you know, in those moments, my
Speaker 2: thoughts were more of just about raising my children, not
Speaker 2: getting to see them hit all those milestones. I literally
Speaker 2: I sent my husband a text message that said, my
Speaker 2: flight is crashing, because I didn't want him to wonder
Speaker 2: for an hour or a day or a week, you know,
Speaker 2: to get confirmation. Because this was back, because it is
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. We didn't have Google calendars. We didn't
Speaker 2: keep up with what airline, what flight number, you know,
Speaker 2: we just weren't. We traveled all the time, so I thought,
Speaker 2: he doesn't even know I'm on board the plane. So
Speaker 2: those were That's kind of what I got done in
Speaker 2: the three and a half minutes from when the birds
Speaker 2: hit to EVA.
Speaker 1: Three and a half minutes. Jim, what did you do?
Speaker 4: Well? Valley's description was a good one. There was already
Speaker 4: plenty of pandemonium going on because remember from wheels up
Speaker 4: to impact with the birds. It was only ninety seconds,
Speaker 4: but everything was at full thrust. Typical day in the
Speaker 4: aviation business, right, So from the moment of the bird impact,
Speaker 4: pandemonium was quick to start. Of course, and then the
Speaker 4: command to brace for impact only made everything exponentially worse
Speaker 4: on the inside of the airplane. And you know, there's
Speaker 4: there's probably not a set of words that does justice
Speaker 4: to the things that Value was talking about and what
Speaker 4: we both experienced, because that's just one of those worst
Speaker 4: moments where you just wouldn't be able to describe another
Speaker 4: human where people are so between total silence to praying
Speaker 4: out loud, to screaming and crying to cursing in anger.
Speaker 4: It was the fullest, braw range of emotions you could
Speaker 4: possibly imagine ever hearing at one time. So it was
Speaker 4: it was as raw a moment as I've of course
Speaker 4: ever experienced in life.
Speaker 3: But you you talk about the range of emotion and
Speaker 3: a range of thoughts, Valley was just mentioning talking about
Speaker 3: her kids, wanting to be there for our kids and
Speaker 3: raise their kids. But Jim in that and right ninety
Speaker 3: seconds the impact happens with the birds, and then another
Speaker 3: essentially ninety seconds and you're in the river. What though,
Speaker 3: at what point in those three minutes did it switch
Speaker 3: from oh my god, I'm going to die to oh wow,
Speaker 3: I'm going to survive this thing.
Speaker 4: Well, everyone has their own experience, and everyone has their
Speaker 4: own faith tradition, so that the thought of dying wasn't
Speaker 4: really that so called scary to me. But I was
Speaker 4: way preoccupied because I was the dummy. They got to
Speaker 4: stand by seat, so I was sitting next to the
Speaker 4: woman with the baby.
Speaker 2: I was really.
Speaker 4: Preoccupied by a nine month old that was practically as
Speaker 4: big as his mother, crawling everywhere. So for me, that
Speaker 4: whole experience was really really small in the fact that
Speaker 4: it was between two humans that had never met one
Speaker 4: another before and a mother that was separated from her
Speaker 4: husband and another child on board and clearly terrified in
Speaker 4: not knowing what to do with this rambunctious baby. So me,
Speaker 4: like a fool, being a father of five, said hey,
Speaker 4: let me hold your baby. And she was incredibly, incredibly courageous.
Speaker 4: As I'm sure you all have heard the story before,
Speaker 4: is she actually surrendered and gave up her child to
Speaker 4: someone else that she thought, maybe because he was a nut,
Speaker 4: was going to somehow be able to protect this child
Speaker 4: as we were going in the river.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is incredible. I'm curious, Bally, what actually goes
Speaker 1: through your mind? Did you believe you were going to
Speaker 1: die and do you see your life flash before you do?
Speaker 1: Things seem like they happened in slow motion. What were
Speaker 1: those three and a half minutes like?
Speaker 2: Well, to echo what Jim said, I don't think I
Speaker 2: was so scared of dying. I've always been a person
Speaker 2: of faith, so I remember thinking, well, God, this is
Speaker 2: your will. I accepted. I'm not crazy about it, but
Speaker 2: I accept it, and I do at that point. I
Speaker 2: was thirty seven years old that day and three of
Speaker 2: my four grandparents were still alive, so the one grandparent
Speaker 2: that had passed, I just thought, well, he's going to
Speaker 2: be there waiting on me. So I wasn't so scared
Speaker 2: of dying. I was just more selfishly. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: fomo at the max. Okay, I was so sad about
Speaker 2: all the things I was going to miss out on
Speaker 2: in my family's life. That's what really made me so sad.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not a perfect mother, but I am
Speaker 2: their mother, and my children were four, six, and nine
Speaker 2: on that day, so I knew it's going to totally
Speaker 2: impact their life significantly for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 2: Not that I didn't think Steve would do a great
Speaker 2: job finishing racing them, but I was just I was
Speaker 2: just wrecked about all those big moments, all those big
Speaker 2: milestone moments I was gonna miss.
Speaker 3: No, Valley, tell me, past fifteen years, what have been
Speaker 3: the milestone moments? Would have been the moments that, Oh
Speaker 3: my god, I cannot imagine I would have missed this.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I'm gonna get teaching them all three to
Speaker 2: drive a car, drive a stick shift. In our house,
Speaker 2: your first car is a stick shift because you can't
Speaker 2: text and drive a stick shift. You know, none of
Speaker 2: your friends can drive your car up. Insurance is cheaper,
Speaker 2: so I mean, you know, those were moments of flattery,
Speaker 2: cheers for tears, so, you know, teaching them to use
Speaker 2: a little grit to drive a stick shift. Going in kindergarten,
Speaker 2: my young guest, I mean, it's first day of school,
Speaker 2: the first day of high school, the proms, the graduations.
Speaker 2: I mean, one's one's out of college, one's going to
Speaker 2: graduate from college this this May, and my baby just
Speaker 2: went to college. You know, Being able to take them
Speaker 2: to I mean you you name it, dance recitals, baseball games.
Speaker 2: The list is long. And I think because of being
Speaker 2: a part of this experience I have, all those milestones
Speaker 2: are all more sweet to know that I am here
Speaker 2: to see them.
Speaker 3: Where are they in college? Are they Tennessee volunteers too?
Speaker 2: Well? One is a Tennessee volunteer. One is a graduate
Speaker 2: of Wake Forest in North Carolina, the senior this year.
Speaker 2: He is a he's all of ball and my baby
Speaker 2: is a Baylor Bear. He goes to school in Waco, Texas.
Speaker 2: He's sick of bears. So they've got three different you know,
Speaker 2: three different paths, and I wouldn't want it any other way.
Speaker 1: I wish you could have seen Jim while you were talking.
Speaker 1: He was clapping, he was cheering, He even had firework
Speaker 1: behind him. At one point. He was just echoing everything
Speaker 1: you were saying. We're going to hear more about what
Speaker 1: this experience has done to change your life, how you've
Speaker 1: lived differently. We're going to hear all about that when
Speaker 1: we come back.
Speaker 3: All right back here now. Jim Whittaker A Valley Collins,
Speaker 3: two of the survivors of Flight fifteen forty nine, the
Speaker 3: crash in the Hudson, the miracle on the Hudson. I
Speaker 3: guess is what we should all be referring to it
Speaker 3: as these days. That's how we know it. But all
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty five people on board that flight,
Speaker 3: of course survived Captain Sully. It's been cool to hear
Speaker 3: Valley here. She keeps referring to him by his full name, Sullenburger.
Speaker 3: You have a different relationship well than the rest of
Speaker 3: us do we call him Sully? But that's cool to hear. Jim,
Speaker 3: let me ask you, what what was the pre miracle
Speaker 3: on the Hudson, Jim Whittaker like, as opposed to the
Speaker 3: guy we are sitting here talking to now.
Speaker 4: Well, again, both versions are defective. However, the one before
Speaker 4: and there's still now today. Long time lifelong road warrior,
Speaker 4: thousands of flights, thousands of nights and hotels, traveled all
Speaker 4: over the country, all over the world, and so the
Speaker 4: whole experience of traveling, that is, and take off and
Speaker 4: so forth and so on, that was as commonplace as
Speaker 4: driving to work. But extinguishing characteristic that made this different.
Speaker 4: And I've been on plane planes before where an engine
Speaker 4: had gone out or something had occurred, but never had
Speaker 4: I been on an airplane at takeoff that had gone
Speaker 4: from full thrust to being a glider. No noise, no engine,
Speaker 4: no nothing. And I just described that to say that.
Speaker 4: Of course, for someone that had been on thousands and
Speaker 4: thousands of flights, that was a new, immediate just and
Speaker 4: immediate clicks in the back of your brain, like something's wrong.
Speaker 4: This is a big problem, obviously, So it flash forward
Speaker 4: to now. Since then fifteen years it's scary to say,
Speaker 4: but not only hundreds, but I've continued doing the same thing.
Speaker 4: But to the points that Valley made earlier, that of
Speaker 4: all those life experiences that came there after, the graduations
Speaker 4: and grandchildren and the events that were special, there is
Speaker 4: an awareness to realize that I would not be having
Speaker 4: this experience but for the hands of others and the
Speaker 4: grace of God. And that is as we race through
Speaker 4: all of our lives. That's probably something I know. I'm
Speaker 4: often easy to forget about. Hey, I should pay attention
Speaker 4: to be present in this moment, because it's a gift
Speaker 4: that I'm here right now. We have I had thought
Speaker 4: that twenty years ago. Of course not.
Speaker 3: But we need to remind folks, you weren't supposed to
Speaker 3: be on this plane. You were a standby passenger.
Speaker 4: Is that right? Well, again, back to the defectiveness. I
Speaker 4: made a lot of foolish choices in life, but one
Speaker 4: of them was getting done early in Manhattan, running to
Speaker 4: the airport again being the road warrior, trying to get
Speaker 4: home early. Life's going to be great. Maybe I'll even
Speaker 4: catch dinner. And that was a very interesting choice to
Speaker 4: get all stand violists and get the window seat next
Speaker 4: to the baby in the back.
Speaker 2: Jim and I have some similarities in that it's interesting
Speaker 2: that you put us on here together because I flew,
Speaker 2: maybe not quite as much as Jim, but I flew
Speaker 2: a lot with my job as well. But I always
Speaker 2: flew Delta, so that's where I had all my you know,
Speaker 2: platinum first class bump up, all my perks. But that's
Speaker 2: this trip was like a last minute. So the US
Speaker 2: Airways trip ticket was like eight hundred dollars left. So
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, well, i'll save my company that money,
Speaker 2: for go my little frequent flyer perks, and I'll go
Speaker 2: US Airways today. So that's why I ended. So I
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to be on that flight either, epnically, that's
Speaker 2: not normally, and that's how I ended up on the
Speaker 2: last row with the empty seat that was there because
Speaker 2: Jim had the baby in his rum. So it's now,
Speaker 2: you know, and I think both of us kind of
Speaker 2: have a faith based and you're like, well, why was
Speaker 2: I there? What am I supposed to learn from that?
Speaker 2: What am I supposed to take away from that? Because
Speaker 2: there were passengers on our flight that took that flight
Speaker 2: every week, you know, that was just their way home
Speaker 2: to Charlotte every week, but not the case for me.
Speaker 1: Do you think you were supposed to be on that flight? Now, Valley,
Speaker 1: I know you said you're a woman of faith, and
Speaker 1: do you think that it was something that was faded
Speaker 1: to be? And you said you learned a lot. What
Speaker 1: was the biggest thing you learned?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I'm not small enough answer the
Speaker 2: question of as if fate is I supposed to be there?
Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to I have zero idea. I have
Speaker 2: a lot of learnings I took away, probably the very
Speaker 2: well two things. I'll say, after you sit in a
Speaker 2: moment where you really think you're gonna die and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you don't, there's a there's a
Speaker 2: sense of life purpose and life responsibility, you just feel
Speaker 2: that onus even greater. Okay, I'm kind of in the
Speaker 2: bonus round of jeopardy. You know, how do I how
Speaker 2: do I get this right and make the most of it.
Speaker 2: So that's that's one of the things. Probably the biggest
Speaker 2: learning I took away was just the power of perspective
Speaker 2: that you know, no matter just not just what the
Speaker 2: small stuff. As cliche as it sounds, you know, every
Speaker 2: it's It's interesting when when I was before takeoff, I
Speaker 2: was talking to the gentleman at the window and we
Speaker 2: had this empty seat in between us, and they kept
Speaker 2: telling us it's this full flight. Well you keep waiting
Speaker 2: for who's the person that's going to PLoP down the
Speaker 2: empty seat and from the gate, and there was still
Speaker 2: this empty seat, and I looked at him, I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: this must be our lucky day because here we've got
Speaker 2: all this elbow room to Charlotte. Well, you know, little
Speaker 2: did I know how lucky it was going to be
Speaker 2: in next seven eight minutes. So so I think I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to every day's a lucky day, even if
Speaker 2: it's not a great day, I'm still just lucky. We're
Speaker 2: all lucky to be.
Speaker 3: Well, you say you're not. You know clearly you're smart
Speaker 3: enough to answer the question. She did ask again what
Speaker 3: you were trying to say? But you all helped me. Everybody,
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here with Robes with a breast cancer scare
Speaker 3: in her life to where she thought she was going
Speaker 3: to die, and still quite frankly, every six months he's
Speaker 3: waiting on a report or going and you're still wondering
Speaker 3: about how much time you have left Valley, Jim, both
Speaker 3: of you all, you all weren't supposed to be on
Speaker 3: the flight you got you stand by passenger here, you
Speaker 3: ended up flying. You were trying to save some money
Speaker 3: for your company, which I'd never recommend that, but still,
Speaker 3: but for both of you all all, maybe all three
Speaker 3: of you got to help me understand here, that's not
Speaker 3: just who chalks that up to just coincidence. We've always
Speaker 3: and I've gotten more into it that later in my
Speaker 3: life about the universe giving you signs or follow there
Speaker 3: are signs out there? What do you make Let me
Speaker 3: start with you, Jim, since clearly you're you're going to
Speaker 3: be smart enough to answer that. But but how do
Speaker 3: you make sense of I'm not supposed to be here.
Speaker 3: She's not supposed to be here, Robock. Even a lot
Speaker 3: of people would argue, maybe not supposed to be here.
Speaker 3: Her cancer was called earlier but we all are sitting
Speaker 3: here now on this call, on this podcast together, Jim,
Speaker 3: how do you or do you even try to make
Speaker 3: sense of something like that.
Speaker 4: I'm going to help you, teacher. I'm not going to
Speaker 4: leave you hanging thanks to help you, I would say
Speaker 4: to that, and trying to be serious, is my perspective
Speaker 4: has changed in that I can't explain it either, and
Speaker 4: probably nor can any of us about why did this happen?
Speaker 4: Or what if that kind of is a lost cause.
Speaker 4: But what we can say is, well, I am still here,
Speaker 4: and what more purposeful, meaningful impact can I have on
Speaker 4: the lives of those that are most close to me
Speaker 4: and depend upon me? And then the next concentric ring
Speaker 4: out from that, and the next concentric ring out from that.
Speaker 4: So for me, at least, what I've tried to be
Speaker 4: a better tried. I fail a lot, however, but I've
Speaker 4: tried to be a better parent and spouse and brother
Speaker 4: and son to my parents, So that trying to be
Speaker 4: that better individual. But more importantly, I've also learned to
Speaker 4: balance a good point as I've become much more, maybe
Speaker 4: with age two, more influential as a mentor in other
Speaker 4: folks lives that are going through challenging circumstances in their
Speaker 4: personal lives. I've found a lot of reward and satisfaction
Speaker 4: in that and trying to help others navigate their circumstances,
Speaker 4: which seems maybe traumatic at the time. And I can
Speaker 4: always say, yeah, but you weren't on a plane crash, correctct.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure his family and friends, like my family
Speaker 2: and friends, kind of get tired of me always putting
Speaker 2: the perspective on. One of my dearest friends in National
Speaker 2: college'll go. I said, Okay, do you want my real opinion?
Speaker 2: Do you just want me to do you just want
Speaker 2: me to side with you right now? Or do you
Speaker 2: want me to give you the perspective of And She's like, no,
Speaker 2: I just want you to decide to me right now.
Speaker 1: What's the biggest change that both of you made in
Speaker 1: your life once you survived and got back home. I'll
Speaker 1: start with you, Jim.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a bad start because I don't have a
Speaker 4: great story to tell you. I couldn't say to you,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't tell you some fabulous lie that says I
Speaker 4: was a new person the next day when I woke up,
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I was still the same me. Sure as
Speaker 4: I've already tried to describe. But it wasn't a Road
Speaker 4: to Damascus moment and I somehow woke up and I
Speaker 4: was some new human and had this different perspective online
Speaker 4: I didn't. I was certainly more thankful and grateful, and
Speaker 4: I am today and I am today, But I'm not
Speaker 4: some different human because I wasn't an inauthentic person before.
Speaker 4: I'm just more appreciative for the gifts that I've been
Speaker 4: given now that I'm still here for obviously spending the
Speaker 4: time week right now talking about something happened back then,
Speaker 4: but I'm more grateful for the gifts that I've been
Speaker 4: given in my life and have been since then.
Speaker 2: Pally like Jim, I wasn't all of a sudden the
Speaker 2: different person. I was a pretty positive, friendly, pride be
Speaker 2: kind person before this. In some ways I was not
Speaker 2: as I've always been, very strong, very confident, a type
Speaker 2: a leader type person, not very fearful. I would say,
Speaker 2: I became a little more fearful, and you know, in
Speaker 2: I'm much more myself like myself now fifteen years later
Speaker 2: than I was let's say a month later or six
Speaker 2: months later or a year later. You know, when I
Speaker 2: first got home, I thought, Okay, you know, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Let's go right back to life. Let's, you know, have
Speaker 2: these two busy careers with traveling and three small children.
Speaker 2: And then about a month in, I was just I
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. I could not keep all the balls
Speaker 2: in the air. I couldn't. I'd be on a conference call,
Speaker 2: I can remember what people said, I'd start typing an
Speaker 2: email and I'd forget my train of thought. I, you know,
Speaker 2: should be so happy to be alive, but I just
Speaker 2: felt so sad. And you know, one of the challenges
Speaker 2: I'll say for me, I can't speak for all the passengers,
Speaker 2: but you know, it was the good news story of
Speaker 2: the year. People. It was so cool, it was so exciting,
Speaker 2: it was so miraculous, and people were like, wow, wasn't
Speaker 2: that amazing? You're like now, But it was also really scary,
Speaker 2: and it was it was traumatic. I hate I know
Speaker 2: that word gets used a lot, but it was. It
Speaker 2: was traumatic and it was scary. So all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I became this person that was driving down the interstage like,
Speaker 2: oh no, that Semi is gonna come over and they're
Speaker 2: gonna crash into my car. We're I'm going to die,
Speaker 2: or I wouldn't put something on my calendar for two
Speaker 2: weeks later because I'm probably not gonna live two more weeks,
Speaker 2: you know. So the fragileness of life became I became
Speaker 2: hyper focused. Or we we have a boat, our kids
Speaker 2: water ski behind the boat, they'd fall. I'm like, get back,
Speaker 2: get them because there's gonna boat comes gonna knock. You know,
Speaker 2: it's gonna kill them. I mean, I just became very,
Speaker 2: very aware of how fragile life is and how quickly
Speaker 2: it can change. Now time has helped that neurosis, if
Speaker 2: you want to call it, but I still lack a
Speaker 2: little bit of the moxy confidence that I had. And
Speaker 2: that's okay because I think it makes me appreciate and
Speaker 2: be a little yeah, just being more appreciative for the
Speaker 2: time that I have had.
Speaker 3: You you use the word traumatic. Obviously, that's what I
Speaker 3: guess everybody on that plane would say they experienced a
Speaker 3: traumatic experience. But you also said, like, over time or
Speaker 3: immediately after, you had times where you felt so sad.
Speaker 3: What was that about.
Speaker 2: I think that's just one of the symptoms of PTSD.
Speaker 2: You know, as I went through my therapy, I learned
Speaker 2: that a lot of times it doesn't present immediately. It's
Speaker 2: you know, a month, six weeks, two months after, just
Speaker 2: when the shock wears off. I don't want to speak
Speaker 2: for Jim. Probably it was real easy for get on
Speaker 2: Hunt that plane that night because he was just still
Speaker 2: in shock. We were all still in shot. My first
Speaker 2: flight was five days later. That wasn't as hard as
Speaker 2: the flights three months later, six months later. So I
Speaker 2: just I I don't I don't know. It was just
Speaker 2: I was just in shock. I mean, it just it
Speaker 2: just took. It just takes. It just takes time. I
Speaker 2: wanted the I've spoken to audiences over the years about
Speaker 2: this experience, and you going back to like why was
Speaker 2: I there? While were we there? When I have when
Speaker 2: I've had like a six three marine veteran come up
Speaker 2: to me with tears in his eyes and say thank
Speaker 2: you for talking about PTSD, thank you for putting it
Speaker 2: out front. That's probably one of my moments that I
Speaker 2: was like, maybe that's why I was there because I
Speaker 2: think better now. I don't mean to go off on
Speaker 2: a tangent but or get on a soapbox, but I
Speaker 2: think even now, more than fifteen years ago, we talked
Speaker 2: more about mental health than we did and just I
Speaker 2: tell people, you know, I looked just fine on the outside.
Speaker 2: I walked off that plane aside from being in soaking
Speaker 2: wet clothes, you know, nothing was broken. I wasn't bruised,
Speaker 2: I didn't walk with a limp. I mean when my
Speaker 2: husband looked at me, I look like the same old valley,
Speaker 2: but I was not the same old valley. And honestly,
Speaker 2: it took a little while for us, even as a couple,
Speaker 2: to you know, figure out the new me if you will,
Speaker 2: and I hope in some ways I'm a better version
Speaker 2: of myself, not as good a version of myself as
Speaker 2: before I've boarded that blot.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your your honesty and your transparency, because
Speaker 1: when the unthinkable happens, when the thing that is almost
Speaker 1: impossible actually happens to you, that fear is real, and
Speaker 1: fear is a powerful thing. And I can't imagine not
Speaker 1: being afraid after going through something like that. When people say, oh,
Speaker 1: what are the chances, you can say, actually, if it's
Speaker 1: less than one percent, if it happens to you, it's everything,
Speaker 1: It's one hundred percent, right and living then your life
Speaker 1: knowing that your greatest fear could actually happen is crippling
Speaker 1: in moments. How do you get past that? Jim, did
Speaker 1: you feel the same way at all?
Speaker 4: Well, this is maybe a different tangent or not for
Speaker 4: where you all thought the conversation would go. But I
Speaker 4: have found this fascinating, yes, because of this. Afterward after
Speaker 4: the crash, like Valley, I went to a number of
Speaker 4: groups that wanted to hear this story, and they wanted
Speaker 4: to hear someone talk about it. So I had done
Speaker 4: a fair amount of public speaking at work, so I
Speaker 4: went on the rubber Chicken circuit of cividans and quantises
Speaker 4: and professional groups and all that stuff, and I talked
Speaker 4: to a number number of groups. And every time, somewhere
Speaker 4: in this talk, which was just conversational like we're doing now,
Speaker 4: but I had a few props right, people would start
Speaker 4: crying and I thought, man, I mean, I know I'm
Speaker 4: a bad presenter, but this is painful. And there would
Speaker 4: just be these people sitting there and these very small
Speaker 4: intimate groups, you know, and they would just be crying.
Speaker 4: And then afterward they would come up and they get
Speaker 4: similar to what Valley described and say things like thank
Speaker 4: you and I've always been so fearful this was going
Speaker 4: to happen to me, this total consuming fear of flying,
Speaker 4: to what you talked about earlier, Amy about fear is
Speaker 4: this incredibly powerful ruling emotion in our lives about I
Speaker 4: fear these things, and I've had these things happen to me.
Speaker 4: And this is the whole experience of just retelling that
Speaker 4: story to people seems to have unlocked their own feelings
Speaker 4: of the things that they fear and been able to
Speaker 4: give them a little bit of maybe not comfort, but
Speaker 4: courage that they can survive whatever moment they are in now.
Speaker 4: It's just been a fascinate That period of time was
Speaker 4: fascinating to me, and to Valley's point, it probably helped
Speaker 4: me too, unknowingly so kind of process those emotions in
Speaker 4: my subconscious minds, you know, just work through all of
Speaker 4: that by contributing and being with other people and talking about.
Speaker 1: The topic well, making people feel not alone. Knowing that
Speaker 1: other people also can talk about their fears and face
Speaker 1: them and acknowledge them is a huge gift that you've
Speaker 1: given so many people. We're going to talk more with
Speaker 1: Valley and Jim when we come back.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 5: I'm Kate Hudson and I'm Oliver Hudson and at last
Speaker 5: I checked for.
Speaker 6: Siblings and this is sibling revelry.
Speaker 5: We're full blood siblings, the only full bloodling.
Speaker 6: And our family well not in the world, I mean.
Speaker 4: No, in the whole world.
Speaker 5: This is it, like no one anyway. We're back with
Speaker 5: season four. I can't believe it's Yeah.
Speaker 6: I'm so excited, bigger and better than ever. You might
Speaker 6: be asking yourself, what is sibling revelry?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well we just made it up. There is no
Speaker 5: sibling revelry. It's reveling in your sibling.
Speaker 6: And it's fun because we've decided to open it up,
Speaker 6: you know, to really like all kinds of different siblings.
Speaker 6: And it's going to be an awesome season.
Speaker 5: So listen to Sibling Revelry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.
Speaker 1: Wherever you listen to paup God. Welcome back everyone. We're
Speaker 1: talking to Jim Whittaker and Valley Collins, two of the
Speaker 1: survivors of the Miracle on the Hudson, and we are
Speaker 1: looking back not only what happened fifteen years ago, but
Speaker 1: what that has led them to today and who they
Speaker 1: are today because a near death experience. I mean it
Speaker 1: affects people differently. I want to ask you, VALI would
Speaker 1: you give the experience back if you could.
Speaker 2: If I had my choice, I would not board that
Speaker 2: plane again. I'm so thankful for what I've learned, what
Speaker 2: I've taken from it, the gift of perspective and gratitude.
Speaker 2: But I guess maybe giving me that sense of fear
Speaker 2: that I'd never had before. I kind of enjoyed the
Speaker 2: thirty seven years before. It is not not really being
Speaker 2: scared of many things.
Speaker 1: Other than Snake's I love it. You'd get it back,
Speaker 1: how about you, Jim?
Speaker 4: No, I would. I would relive it again. I had
Speaker 4: the benefit of which is even weirder in not today's talk.
Speaker 4: But I was on another aircraft that happened to catch
Speaker 4: on fire, so I was in I was a pro
Speaker 4: by the time this rolled around. And the fact that
Speaker 4: it is scary to go in the river. But if
Speaker 4: you're in a small aircraft and there are only two
Speaker 4: of you on it and it catches on fire, now
Speaker 4: that is a sense of emergency.
Speaker 3: Jim, you need to take some road trips. Brother, you
Speaker 3: got you gotta stop flying if I want to plan.
Speaker 2: You're on I'm getting off.
Speaker 7: Oh this is no money, because I was on one
Speaker 7: struck by lightning with an emergency landing before the Hudson,
Speaker 7: and then the December of two thousand and nine, the
Speaker 7: same year, I was on one that lost nose steering,
Speaker 7: so we had to have the full emergency cabin preparedness,
Speaker 7: emergency vehicles line.
Speaker 2: And the runway. I mean, some people are like, well,
Speaker 2: what are the chances I'm calling? Well, I've kind of
Speaker 2: been in three incidents. Is it's just so funny that
Speaker 2: we're booked on here at the same time, you know,
Speaker 2: my mom's like, well, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 1: And for the record, just to make it clear, you
Speaker 1: all still happily and willingly board planes. Yes, in fact,
Speaker 1: you just got off one recently.
Speaker 2: I don't know about happily. I do it because I
Speaker 2: want to go where I want to go. I don't
Speaker 2: love it. I'm never gonna love it like I did
Speaker 2: before when I was just you know, naive. But it
Speaker 2: is the safest way to travel. I do tell people
Speaker 2: the most dangerous part of on air plane trip is
Speaker 2: the drive in your car to the airport. You know,
Speaker 2: if we all heard about every fatal car wreck in
Speaker 2: our country every day, none of us will get in
Speaker 2: our car. It's just with plane crashes. When something happens,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of people at once, and everybody hears
Speaker 2: about every one of them.
Speaker 3: Apparently, it's the safest way to travel unless your name
Speaker 3: is Jim Whittaker or Valley Collins.
Speaker 1: I want to ask y'all, did the Tom Hanks movie
Speaker 1: get it right?
Speaker 2: You know, the Tom Hanks movie, which I loved, the
Speaker 2: movie Sully. Tom Hanks could read the phone book and
Speaker 2: I would be entertained. So I thought the movie was great.
Speaker 2: It's definitely from Sullenberger's active I don't think they got
Speaker 2: the evacuation scene in the movie right personally. I mean
Speaker 2: in the movie, and I haven't seen the movie in
Speaker 2: a lot of years, but I remember that there's there
Speaker 2: like here, have a blanket, it's cold out there, like
Speaker 2: the flight attendants that, and it just it just wasn't
Speaker 2: that way it was. It was chaotic, It was a
Speaker 2: lot of water, it was a lot of I mean,
Speaker 2: you're how chaotic it is trying to get off the
Speaker 2: plane when you're parked at the gate, So you know,
Speaker 2: you can imagine. So that's the only part of the movie.
Speaker 2: If I was going to take issue with but it
Speaker 2: didn't upset me. I thought it was a great It
Speaker 2: was a great fielm but you jim right it was.
Speaker 4: It was definitely a Hollywood version of a feel good moment,
Speaker 4: for sure, and one takes liberties when you're making a
Speaker 4: Hollywood movie. There were the other movies as jule Me,
Speaker 4: the docu drama, and the documentary Class. There have been
Speaker 4: several other ones made, but the Hollywood version I think
Speaker 4: was more centered on entertainment because Valley is exactly right
Speaker 4: as we were talking about earlier. There's just no way
Speaker 4: to one, it wouldn't be entertainment, it'd be a horror show.
Speaker 4: And then two, there's just no way to capture how
Speaker 4: a raw and nasty All of that was at the
Speaker 4: time that it was occurring, before everyone was off the
Speaker 4: airplane and on water taxis, and the event was kind
Speaker 4: of passed right that first that period of time in there,
Speaker 4: in the crash sequence and the rescue, that was pretty ugly, right.
Speaker 1: I can't I cannot even imagine.
Speaker 2: My scariest moment and the whole event was after we
Speaker 2: landed and I went to the galley and there was
Speaker 2: a hole in the APU fell off the tail of
Speaker 2: the plane, and you know, we couldn't get out the
Speaker 2: back exits and the water was rushing in to about
Speaker 2: my shoulder level, and thinking I was going to drown.
Speaker 2: That was really my scariest moment, was just being in
Speaker 2: that galley with that cold water and realizing we're not
Speaker 2: getting out the back and people are still trying to
Speaker 2: come to the back, you know, and I'm thinking this
Speaker 2: this gentleman's gonna mow me over, you know, trying to
Speaker 2: get people turned around to move towards the wings. So
Speaker 2: that was really, for me, my scariest moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just hearing you describe that, you just get chills
Speaker 1: from head to toe. That is just worst case scenario,
Speaker 1: thinking you're trapped in this plane and the water's rushing
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, fifteen years has passed. Has there been
Speaker 1: a day where you haven't thought about it?
Speaker 2: Valley? Oh? Sure, Yeah, there have been plenty of days
Speaker 2: where I have not where I have not thought about it. Especially,
Speaker 2: like I said, time helped. You know, in the first
Speaker 2: year or two years, No, there probably wasn't a day
Speaker 2: I didn't think about it. But as time has gone on.
Speaker 2: But if I do catch myself in a moment of
Speaker 2: you know, kind of sweating the small stuff or getting
Speaker 2: annoying because you know, my boys left all their underwear
Speaker 2: all over the floor or something. You know, we'll be like,
Speaker 2: all right, I'm still the moms here that gets to
Speaker 2: pick up the dirty underwear. And that's what life's about,
Speaker 2: is the real stuff. And I'm just happy I've been
Speaker 2: here to enjoy the real stuff. But I don't think
Speaker 2: about it every day.
Speaker 3: Jim, speaking on the real stuff, Why does it take?
Speaker 3: You know, I speak to people all out there. We've
Speaker 3: all known people in our lives and you all are
Speaker 3: two examples as well. They go through something traumatic and
Speaker 3: then they make a change in their life. People have something,
Speaker 3: they hit rock bottom and they make a change in
Speaker 3: their life. Something has to happen. Can you speak to
Speaker 3: Jim to people and they all have their own experiences,
Speaker 3: of course, but how would you encourage people to not
Speaker 3: wait for that moment. Don't wait until you have a
Speaker 3: near death experience, don't wait until you hit rock bottom.
Speaker 3: Today is a day you can start to appreciate more
Speaker 3: and love more and be kinder and do what Valley says,
Speaker 3: you know, don't sweat the small stuff. What would be
Speaker 3: your words of encouragement for folks to not have to
Speaker 3: have a plane craw a literal plane crash before they
Speaker 3: make changes.
Speaker 4: Man, I'll take an easier question for one hundred. That
Speaker 4: is a heavy one. I don't know that I know
Speaker 4: the right answer, but what you just described resonates with
Speaker 4: me too at a personal level, because that bouncing on
Speaker 4: the bottom happens for a lot of us. Whether you
Speaker 4: have problems with substance abuse or mental illness or whatever
Speaker 4: those things are, the bouncing on the bottom is often
Speaker 4: the path that many of us have to go through
Speaker 4: because you don't know which way is up until you
Speaker 4: found the bottom. So to expect someone, or to hope
Speaker 4: for someone, or to desire for someone, to be able
Speaker 4: to be self aware enough to know that, hey, man,
Speaker 4: this is not working, this is not the best you.
Speaker 4: Perhaps that is such a giant decision that I find
Speaker 4: that most people don't make that decision because it requires
Speaker 4: so much courage and it's going to be painful most likely.
Speaker 4: So the continuation of doing nothing is usually easier than
Speaker 4: doing something. And that's why that bouncing off the bottom
Speaker 4: seems to work for some folks. I have found in
Speaker 4: my life at least. That is a really, really tough question.
Speaker 4: But back to being able to talk to folks, is
Speaker 4: I have found it incredibly rewarding to be talking to
Speaker 4: others who have their own set of life problems and
Speaker 4: they at least can get some type of positive reflection
Speaker 4: from the fact that, oh, well, wow, that happened to you,
Speaker 4: and here you still are and you seem to be
Speaker 4: marginally okay. Maybe my circumstance isn't so bad. Maybe I
Speaker 4: could make better choices, maybe I will choose to do
Speaker 4: That's been an incredibly powerful for me.
Speaker 1: I love that. Do you all do anything special to
Speaker 1: honor this day, Valley?
Speaker 2: Not really? I mean on the ant like the one
Speaker 2: year anniversary, the five year anniversary, the ten year anniversary.
Speaker 3: I went.
Speaker 2: I went to those events. It's always it's amazing to
Speaker 2: me how many of my friends and family I'll get
Speaker 2: more text messages, emails on this day than I will
Speaker 2: on my birthday. It's kind of it's kind of crazy,
Speaker 2: so I always acknowledge it. Do I have a specific tradition, No,
Speaker 2: I just keep living that day whatever it brings. I mean,
Speaker 2: in fact, this year, on the fifteenth anniversary, one of
Speaker 2: the changes I made in not really a change I
Speaker 2: made in my life, but I did quit working full
Speaker 2: time a few few months after the experience, went part
Speaker 2: time and then quit working all together just to raise
Speaker 2: my family. But I started to participate more in nonprofits
Speaker 2: and trying to help other people, because I do think
Speaker 2: when you're struggling yourself, what makes you feel better than
Speaker 2: to try to help somebody else who's less fortunate than
Speaker 2: you are. And so I am the chair of a
Speaker 2: nonprofit that works with Mount Irshed babies in Uganda and
Speaker 2: on today today is our board strategic planning retreat. So
Speaker 2: I'm with some people. They're very like minded with me
Speaker 2: with helping those that are less fortunate. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to market today trying to in some small, small way
Speaker 2: help someone that is a whole lot worse off than
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 3: Jim, you mark the day as well.
Speaker 4: My answer is much more practical than balance, which is
Speaker 4: one of the many reasons why I'm so fond of.
Speaker 4: But I'm going to the airport on Monday because that's
Speaker 4: where I belong.
Speaker 3: You're you're flying on the anniversary day, Yeah, Valley, have
Speaker 3: you done that at all? Flown on the anniversary day?
Speaker 3: Any of the past fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have flown on the anniversary date. I did
Speaker 2: after one of our I did I have flown on
Speaker 2: the anniversary date.
Speaker 3: Yes, I wouldn't expect I expected from defective Jim, but
Speaker 3: I wasn't expecting you Valley.
Speaker 2: Speaking of only down at one time, I'm only doing all.
Speaker 2: We're taking a bus to the retreat.
Speaker 1: So well, Jim Valley, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: It has been incredible to be able to talk to
Speaker 1: you all about what you went through, how far you've come,
Speaker 1: and you have a long, beautiful life to look forward to,
Speaker 1: and thanks for inspiring us along the way. I appreciate
Speaker 1: how really you kept it, how down to earth are
Speaker 1: you're not trying to make it be anything more than
Speaker 1: what it is. And the lessons you learned along the way.
Speaker 1: We appreciate it, and we took notes, and thank you all.
Speaker 1: And I don't know do you do you say happy
Speaker 1: anniversary on an anniversary like this?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so happy anniversary old.
Speaker 2: An anniversary fifteen years on the fifteenth.
Speaker 1: So there you go. Well, happy anniversary, y'all, and thank
Speaker 1: you for being with us.
Speaker 2: Thank you bye, all the best.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Yeah, hey, everybody, they're saying by
Speaker 3: each other there. You can of course continue to follow
Speaker 3: the show here on Instagram, at Amy and TJ podcast.
Speaker 3: That was a great one. It's great to talk to
Speaker 3: folks like that who have that type of respective and
Speaker 3: can give us all a little bit. I'm still fascinated.
Speaker 3: I can imagine her husband the text my plane is crashing,
Speaker 3: she says. She sent him that message as they were
Speaker 3: going out. She had three minutes to do it. I
Speaker 3: guess I can imagine getting that type of message from you.
Speaker 1: I hope to never send one like that, TEJ. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that'll be on my list of goals things not to do.
Speaker 3: Put a sweet emoji to it, Maybe it'll light it.