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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a court following has revealed the

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Speaker 1: Justice Department has released less than one percent of the

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Speaker 1: Epstein files. We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: George Conway stops by to talk about his run for Congress.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to the Eurasia Groups Ian Brema about

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Speaker 1: the destabilization Trump has brought to the world stage. But

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Speaker 1: first the news.

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Speaker 2: All right, Mai. We have a new congressional landscape because

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Speaker 2: a lot of weird things happen since we last taped.

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Speaker 2: We have Marjorie Taylor Green gone or see won't be

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Speaker 2: filled till at least March. We have Congressman Doug LaMalfa

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Speaker 2: who passed away, and Indiana Rep. Jim Baird and his

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Speaker 2: wife were injured in a car accident that may prevent

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Speaker 2: him from voting.

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Speaker 1: By the way, in a month, a Democrat will take

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Speaker 1: the Mikey Cheryl seat. So Johnson's majority to eighteen to

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Speaker 1: two thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Leaves a lot of room for a Thomas Massey to

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Speaker 2: swing around his anti Trump feelings? Are they feelings?

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Speaker 1: Look Mike Johnson got this job, he got this seat,

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Speaker 1: He got to be Speaker of the House because Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump wanted a yes man. He wanted someone who would

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Speaker 1: do whatever he wanted. And while that is good for Trump,

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Speaker 1: or at least it was, he didn't put in there

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Speaker 1: someone who knew how to do it, like Tom Emmer

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Speaker 1: or even Kevin McCarthy, who is no rocket scientist. Even

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy would have been a much better pick for

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Speaker 1: this job. But you have Mike Johnson, who is not

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Speaker 1: good at this job, and whenever he has trouble, he

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Speaker 1: sends everyone home. So what's happened? At least I think

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Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress are a little bit different than Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress are pretty demoralized, and that's why they

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Speaker 1: keep leaving Congress. And part of the way to have

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Speaker 1: a majority is to have a lot of people there.

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Speaker 1: When people start leaving, you start losing people and your

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Speaker 1: majority shrinks. So Mike Johnson right now has a majority

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Speaker 1: that is two eighteen to two thirteen, and that is

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Speaker 1: when you have people like Thomas Massey, and they're not

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Speaker 1: a governorable majority. And that is why there are two

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Speaker 1: different bills that have passed that are bills that Trump

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Speaker 1: doesn't want. And you're going to see more of that

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Speaker 1: because you've got discharge petitions and you've got a House

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Speaker 1: that the Republicans control but really in name only, and

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Speaker 1: so who knows what's happening behind the scenes, but we

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Speaker 1: hope that Hikeem is out there trying to flip some

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Speaker 1: members of Congress.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a perilous time for Mike Johnson's rule.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Who could have seen it coming? Everyone?

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Speaker 2: Yep, you know, these things can flip fast. As we

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Speaker 2: saw last year the Democrats lost a couple different members

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Speaker 2: due to death. So who knows where this plays out.

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Speaker 1: It's good to not have really really old members of conqueror.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you'll be shocked to hear that this situation in Venezuela,

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Speaker 2: it's beginning to look a lot like Iraq. Trump says

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Speaker 2: the US government may reimburse soil companies for rebuilding Venezuela's infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is not what anyone wants. There's a guest

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Speaker 1: on this episode, Ian who talks about how he thinks

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Speaker 1: this could go and I think, and this is a

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Speaker 1: really good point. Wired has a really good article about

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Speaker 1: this too, which is history shows us that the US

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Speaker 1: is really good at coups, but they tend to be

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Speaker 1: not so good at all the stuff that happens after coups.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a really really really good point,

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Speaker 1: Like it's easy to take a leader down. It is

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Speaker 1: much harder, as we saw most recently in Afghanistan, but

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Speaker 1: we've seen in other places to install a leader to

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Speaker 1: follow up with that. And that's where we are right now,

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Speaker 1: is there's not a plan and they're you know, Trump

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Speaker 1: ran on end foreign wars, and so here we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves in a completely you know, a situation where Trump

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Speaker 1: is you know, it's the you break it, you bought

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Speaker 1: it school of diplomacy. It's a pottery barn meet to

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Speaker 1: the Middle East, and that's where we are. Fun stuff

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Speaker 1: could be a problem.

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Speaker 2: So some of the more shocking news in a week

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Speaker 2: of shocking news was that Tim Walls decided not to

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Speaker 2: run for another election as governor of Minnesota after some

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Speaker 2: very very i would say, not good politics, very unfair

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Speaker 2: play propaganda disguised as news, particularly this young lad. The

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Speaker 2: right wing is latched onto Nick Shirley, who did a

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Speaker 2: lot of bullshit journalism. He went to places pretended they

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Speaker 2: weren't open, blocked out signs that showed they weren't open.

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Speaker 2: And what we're seeing as estimates that more people watched

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Speaker 2: this than all three news networks combined.

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Speaker 1: Brought times like one hundred, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't say times one hundred, but times a lot. It

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Speaker 2: was one of the most seismic. I even just tallied

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Speaker 2: up numbers on YouTube and I got to twenty five million.

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Speaker 1: So basically, what is happening here is that more than

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Speaker 1: two years ago there was a case of corruption, fraud,

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Speaker 1: thievery of public funds in Minnesota the Biden DOJ, which

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of qualms about and a lot

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Speaker 1: of complaints about, but they did in fact prosecute I

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Speaker 1: don't know ten twelve thirty people. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. People went to jail, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Fast forward Nick Shurly. There was a lot of reporting

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Speaker 1: about it at the time. There was ten pieces in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. Fast forward Nick Shirley and his

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Speaker 1: merry band of propagandas I was going to say, moronic billionaires,

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Speaker 1: and that crew found that they decided that none of

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Speaker 1: this had ever been covered and that they were breaking news.

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Speaker 1: The point is there's been punishment, people have gone to jail,

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Speaker 1: there has been investigations, there has been criminal charges, but

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Speaker 1: it does not matter because these people are discovering for

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Speaker 1: the first time. So basically the problem is this, when

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Speaker 1: you are running for governor for a third term, that

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Speaker 1: third term situation is complicated. We saw this with Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: in New York when he ran for mayor. I mean

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Speaker 1: it was different with Bloomberg because he had to change

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Speaker 1: the rules to run for a third term. But governor's

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Speaker 1: races are weird and the third one changes the context

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Speaker 1: a little bit. And now with Klobashar in there, she

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Speaker 1: really has a better shot. I think she's a real

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Speaker 1: national candidate. And I think that probably what happened here

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Speaker 1: is that Wall saw these polls and saw that he

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Speaker 1: probably was not going to win, and so here we are.

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Speaker 1: I think it's disappointing. I mean, I have always been

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Speaker 1: a fan of his, but I also think, like, what's

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Speaker 1: so interesting about Minnesota is they have such a good

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Speaker 1: bench of Democratic candidates and like we will have on

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Speaker 1: this podcast soon, Peggy Flan again, she's running for Senate.

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Speaker 1: I think she's probably the first Lieutenant governor of Minnesota

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Speaker 1: who is a Native woman. That's very cool. So there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of talented people and the Minnesota Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: I'll be interested to see now because this will mean

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Speaker 1: if it works right, it means that Clomentum becomes governor.

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Speaker 1: If she wins, she will then put someone in that

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Speaker 1: Senate seat, and you'll have Peggy Flann again running for

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Speaker 1: the other Senate seatret because Tina Smith is not going

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Speaker 1: to run again, So you will have two new senators

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Speaker 1: from Minnesota. Very interesting. I'll be curious to see who

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Speaker 1: Clomentum picks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think just think we should say the

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Speaker 2: other really disgusting part of the story is that Nick

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Speaker 2: Shirley and his propagandist friends spread that Governor Walls helped

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Speaker 2: get his dear friend Melissa Wortman killed, and then President

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump's that as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of horrible stuff, but the bright

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Speaker 1: spot is that there's a lot of talent in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: So another thing that horrified many people as we walked

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Speaker 2: into this new year is that the Trump administration is

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Speaker 2: making deep cuts in the child vaccine schedule.

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Speaker 1: Yes, not only are they making deep cuts, they're making

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Speaker 1: really deep cuts. So, I mean, this is just absolute

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Speaker 1: bad shitty and in fact, this is probably one of

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Speaker 1: the dumbest. So now they're cutting rotavirus, COVID nineteen, influenza, meningitis,

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Speaker 1: hepatitis A and B. It is absolutely insane, insane, insane, insane.

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Speaker 1: Children will die, It is absolutely pointless. Kids are going

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Speaker 1: to die, Adults are going to die. It's absolutely fucking unconsionable.

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Speaker 1: We have exciting news over at our YouTube channel. The

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Speaker 1: second episode from our Project twenty twenty nine series is

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Speaker 1: out now. It's a reimagining where we examine what went

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Speaker 1: wrong with democrats approach to politics and how we can

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Speaker 1: correct it and deliver changes to help people's lives. The

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Speaker 1: first episode dove into the very sexy topic of campaign

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Speaker 1: finance reform, and our second episode deals with an even

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Speaker 1: sexier topic, antitrust and regulation. We look at how antitrust

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Speaker 1: and regulation can protect American citizens and make America thrive

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Speaker 1: in an era of rampant corruption and predatory crony capitalism.

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Speaker 1: We talk to the smartest names in the field like

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Speaker 1: Lena Kahan, Elvero Bedoya, Elizabeth Wilkins, and Doha Mechi. Republicans

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Speaker 1: were prepared for when they got the levers of power.

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Speaker 1: We need democrats to be too, So please head over

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Speaker 1: to YouTube and search Molli John Fast Project twenty twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: or go to the Fast Politics YouTube channel and find

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Speaker 1: it there and help us spread the word. George Conway

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Speaker 1: is a candidate in the Democratic primary in New York's

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Speaker 1: twelfth congressional district. George Conway, welcome.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I know so I have

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Speaker 3: me when some guest cancels on you, I know that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I'm having you today. Was my other

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Speaker 1: guest who was running for New York twelve canceled, so

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Speaker 1: I thought I'd get you. You're you're a fill in,

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Speaker 1: So tell me what you're up to.

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Speaker 3: Well, I had I went to get some coffee this morning.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 3: It was great, and I had at me.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I want you to talk about why you think

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Speaker 1: why you would be the person to impeach President Trump.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm highly motivated, as you know. I mean we

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Speaker 3: are at a crossroads. I mean we really are threatened here.

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Speaker 3: We're threatened by a potential loss of democracy, a loss

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Speaker 3: of a rule of law. When we see it every day,

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Speaker 3: constitutional government and it's got to stop. And we need

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Speaker 3: people who are going to meet in Congress who are

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Speaker 3: not going to hold back we were basically just call

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Speaker 3: it out as they see it. And we need lawyers

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Speaker 3: in particular because the two things that we need to

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Speaker 3: do with this guy, first of all, is to hold

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Speaker 3: him accountable all his people accountable, which involves investigating and impeaching.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing is we have to do things

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Speaker 3: to make sure. We have to pass laws to make

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Speaker 3: sure it never ever happens again. I mean, there's so

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Speaker 3: many laws that you can think of, just off the top,

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Speaker 3: you know, protecting the Justice Department from political interference. The

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Speaker 3: twenty fifth Amendment is one of my favorites. You know,

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Speaker 3: there was a bill that Nancy Pelosi introduced in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: I think Jamie Raskin had previously introduced it. That you know,

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Speaker 3: under the twenty fifth Amendment, Section four, Congress can designate

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Speaker 3: a body other than the Lex Bittle Alyxplittle Cabinet to

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Speaker 3: figure out whether the president is mentally competent or physically competent.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's got to be done because we can't

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Speaker 3: have what we have now again all sorts of things.

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Speaker 3: The War Powers Act obviously we just learned this week.

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Speaker 3: Really we need to figure out a way his strength

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Speaker 3: make it more festive. Yeah, there's just so many, many things.

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Speaker 3: And the thing that all of this is, yeah, it's Trump, Trump, Trump.

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Speaker 3: And some people are going to say, well, what about

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Speaker 3: everything else? And I don't get these democrats. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I love so many Democrats get this. But there are

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Speaker 3: a few who and they mean well, but they say, well,

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Speaker 3: we want to talk about Trump. We want to talk

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Speaker 3: about Trump too much. We got to talk about the

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Speaker 3: kitchen table issues as if they were separate, and they're

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Speaker 3: not separate. They're completely intertwined. Because we have a president

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Speaker 3: we don't give a shit about anybody other than himself.

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Speaker 3: He's running the government like a mob operation. He's running

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Speaker 3: for his own benefit. He's running the government. We have

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Speaker 3: government of the Boss, by the boss, and for the

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Speaker 3: Boss and all of his friends. And that's the reason why,

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Speaker 3: you know, he's focused on on shit like the arm

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Speaker 3: invested at the Kennedy Center. Renaming the Kennedy Center is

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Speaker 3: nice jed from Qatar. His uh, I mean, his his

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Speaker 3: ballroom real. He'll throw his unconstitutional legal third in all

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Speaker 3: year old and you know he doesn't care about anything

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Speaker 3: that's happening to real people. He doesn't care about using

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Speaker 3: the government to help people. He doesn't care.

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Speaker 1: About Yes, okay, so I want you to explain to

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Speaker 1: us why you're the person So like Jamie Raskin is

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Speaker 1: a great example, because he is a lawyer. He has

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Speaker 1: proven to be a really good member of the House,

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Speaker 1: right and one of the reasons wingman right, and you come.

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Speaker 1: I want you to talk about your experience at Walktau

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Speaker 1: and why that is relevant to what you want to do.

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Speaker 4: If he can elect all the.

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Speaker 3: Things that you need to know how to do, you

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Speaker 3: can learn how to do as a lawyer litigation. You

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Speaker 3: learned how to cross examine witnesses, and I'm a great

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Speaker 3: cross examiner. I mean, this is gonna be great for hearings.

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Speaker 3: I know how to investigate. I know how to litigate.

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Speaker 3: I know how to push all these buttons. And then

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Speaker 3: of course the drafting and the knowledge of constitutional all

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Speaker 3: that thing, all of that, this is all lawyery. We

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Speaker 3: need good lawyers in Congress right now more than ever.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I mean, Jamie, Jamie Raskin needs all

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Speaker 3: the help you can get on that committee. And I'm

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Speaker 3: you know, I want to be there and I want

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Speaker 3: to help, and I think I'm the best person suited

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Speaker 3: for that.

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Speaker 1: Part of Trump is this psychological game, right like, And

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Speaker 1: we saw this really clearly with Zoran. If he's easily played,

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Speaker 1: he is easily So talk us through how that relates

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Speaker 1: to your congressional Well. I think the thing is, he's

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Speaker 1: easily to distract and to engage. I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things I do well with him is to point

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Speaker 1: out his psychological disorders and and make him manifest them.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: And this is the thing about this is this is

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Speaker 3: central to who he is, and central to why he

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Speaker 3: can't govern it, and central to why he is a

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Speaker 3: danger to the world. He's a narcissist. He's a malignant narcissist.

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Speaker 3: I've been talking about that, I write, I wrote an

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Speaker 3: eleven thousand word piece in seven years ago about that

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Speaker 3: in the Atlantic. You know again, he cares only about himself.

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Speaker 3: He only cares about his ego. All everything he's doing

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Speaker 3: is to gratify his ego, to make him feel strong,

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Speaker 3: to make him, you know, to seek retribution against others.

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Speaker 3: He can be easily distracted into showing how bad he is.

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Speaker 3: And I think we need to draw him out on it.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what you know, could have happened

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Speaker 3: more in the twenty four campaign. I think we're going

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Speaker 3: it's going to happen here is well.

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Speaker 1: Don Trump has kidnapped a president of Venezuela and his wife.

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Speaker 1: He has brought them to New York to face drug

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Speaker 1: trafficking charges. Because Donald Trump is very worried about drugs,

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Speaker 1: except sometimes when he's partnering people who what the fuck

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Speaker 1: is going on here? What do you think is going

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Speaker 1: on here?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean all of the stated reasons, I

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Speaker 3: have nothing to do with any figure. Right, he's talking

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Speaker 3: about the drug running, the indictment in the Southern District

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Speaker 3: of New York for money laundering and drug running. Like

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Speaker 3: he pardoned the Honduran president let him go. So it's

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Speaker 3: not really about that. It's about ego, and it's about oil.

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Speaker 3: It's about conquest, it's about power, it's about all of that.

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Speaker 3: And that's why they're talking now about Greenland. Okay, where's

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Speaker 3: the dictator in Greenland? This is all just a giant

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Speaker 3: power play. He actually should like Maduro. Maduro is a

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Speaker 3: strong man, Maduro criminal Maduro is just like him.

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Speaker 1: And Maduro has a great relationship with his buddy Putin

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Speaker 1: does buddy Putin.

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Speaker 3: They're all you know, they're all the same, and you

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Speaker 3: know it's not it's not about anyway helping the United

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Speaker 3: States in any way, shape or form. I mean, they've

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Speaker 3: been lying about Venezuela for a long time, talking about fentanyl.

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Speaker 3: There's no fentanyl that comes from there. The whole thing

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Speaker 3: is elite lee. The boat strikes against people. They may

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Speaker 3: have been drug running, but they weren't drug running in

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Speaker 3: the United States, and they weren't drug running fentanyl they had.

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Speaker 3: You know, those weren't even war crimes because they were

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Speaker 3: just straight out crimes. And now you know Mduro is

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Speaker 3: going to be guilty. He's a bad guy like Trump,

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Speaker 3: but that's got nothing to do with why he's here.

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Speaker 3: It's got nothing to do with why he's here. And

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Speaker 3: the danger of the dangerous pressor that's being set by

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Speaker 3: having the United States is going to take somebody out

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Speaker 3: when it's not in their our national winterest being we

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Speaker 3: have no basis in international law. That's going to come

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Speaker 3: back to bite us because the next time some you know,

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Speaker 3: we one of somebody we like somewhere that happens to them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, who are we going to be this to object?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 1: And it also I mean there there's a nightmare scenario

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Speaker 1: where Putin is like okay Ukraine, where she she is

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Speaker 1: like okay Taiwan.

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Speaker 3: We have to be clean as a whistle. We have

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Speaker 3: to stand up for what is right because we you know,

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Speaker 3: the turn the worm can turn on us too. And

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Speaker 3: the thing about it too, iss like what what are

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Speaker 3: we doing? We we are never good at regime change, right,

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Speaker 3: We are never good at it, Like you can't create

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Speaker 3: a new government that doesn't have support within its borders,

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Speaker 3: and we're you know, we're we're not going to be

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Speaker 3: able to do that. In fact, we basically take this

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Speaker 3: guy out and all his cronies are in charge now.

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Speaker 3: So what's what was what was the point of this?

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Speaker 1: You know Trump, you know Kelly An, you know almost

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Speaker 1: all these people who work in this White House.

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Speaker 5: So what do you think the real point was? I

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Speaker 5: think the real point was a show of strength. And

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Speaker 5: I do think there's something about the oil. He's obsessed

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Speaker 5: with that oil. He's talked about that oil.

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Speaker 3: He said, we should have never could have taken the

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Speaker 3: we should have taken the oil from Iraq.

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Speaker 1: I think any of it was to distract from Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Like people are saying.

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Speaker 3: Sure, sure, I mean you know anything he's doing, he

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Speaker 3: you know, he's become more and more manic because of

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Speaker 3: the Epstein thing. Sure, absolutely, that's part of it. He's

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Speaker 3: been panicking about the Epstein thing, so more manick he becomes.

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Speaker 3: It's that's part of I think that's part of the

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Speaker 3: Epstein fall out. But why why what do you mean why.

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Speaker 1: Why is he panicked about Epstein?

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Speaker 3: What's in the file?

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Speaker 4: Some ian?

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Speaker 3: We still haven't seen what's in the files. We have

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Speaker 3: seen lots of reactions. I mean, he knows, he knows

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Speaker 3: what he knows, he's got something to hide. I mean

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Speaker 3: when he's talking about when you know that Marjorie Taylor Green,

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Speaker 3: did you see that? Wor?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: There are people? Are you gonna hurt my friends? Friends?

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump doesn't have friends, right, Donald Trump care about friends.

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Speaker 3: He's not trying to help anyone. There's only one person

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump cares about helping, and who's that Donald Trump?

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Speaker 3: So you can infer from that that he is concerned

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Speaker 3: about something in the files, and he's concerned that has

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Speaker 3: something to do with him. What that is no. I

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Speaker 3: think we've I think we've seen enough. I think the

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Speaker 3: birthday card we've seen enough. Right, Well, he why about

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Speaker 3: the birthday card. It's the signature matches the signature of

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Speaker 3: everything he's ever said. No, the United Kingdom had an ambassador,

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Speaker 3: a very prominent labor politician, Lady or Mandelsson, who had

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Speaker 3: a completely nondescript birthday card in that book, didn't have

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Speaker 3: a picture of a naked woman.

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Speaker 1: But guy was gay.

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Speaker 6: In fact, I met at dinner with them, okay, and

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Speaker 6: they out back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's like the guy didn't do anything compared to

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Speaker 3: what Trump did, right, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's it's so let's talk through a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what you know right now. The House of Representatives has

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Speaker 1: it was just a member, a Republican who died in office,

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, sixty five years old. Not that all died

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Speaker 1: in office. So now the makeup is that they basically

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Speaker 1: Republicans have a one seat majority, and you have Thomas Massey,

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Speaker 1: who is already like if.

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Speaker 3: You're lumbering off the reservation every day, if you were.

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Speaker 1: In the House and Marjorie Taylor Green resigned today or yesterday,

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Speaker 1: if you are in the House, right now would you

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Speaker 1: be making an effort to try to flip more Republican votes?

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Speaker 1: I mean, did you Why do you think that's not happening.

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Speaker 3: I would hope that it's happening. We don't know that

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Speaker 3: it's not happening, because this is not the kind of

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Speaker 3: thing that's going to be happening out on Constant Tomorrow

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Speaker 3: Avenue where everybody can see it. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 3: know what the what the what the back rooms are

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Speaker 3: like there, I don't know who talks to whom, But

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Speaker 3: these people are starting to get it. They are starting

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Speaker 3: to see the end of the Trump rope. The wheels,

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Speaker 3: you know, pick the metaphor you like, the wheels are

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Speaker 3: falling off the bus. And and you see more and

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Speaker 3: more Republicans not running. They're scared, they know, they know

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Speaker 3: the game is up. That being said, we can't take

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Speaker 3: any of this for granted. We have to keep pushing

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Speaker 3: until he's gone, because the worst thing you can do

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Speaker 3: is kind of let up. And that's kind of what

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Speaker 3: happened after the twenty twenty election. Everybody thought he was

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Speaker 3: going to go away. Merrick Garland thought he was going.

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Speaker 2: To go away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Americ Garland, what a disappointment. Do you will you

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Speaker 1: make a case for why do you are you did?

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Speaker 1: Why there needs to be a like a focus on

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Speaker 1: one of the things that happened in twenty twenty was

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Speaker 1: Democrats decided they needed to protect norms and institutions, and

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Speaker 1: Republicans decided they needed to win, and Republicans won, And

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Speaker 1: here we are, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, the answer is the way you win is by

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Speaker 3: showing these people are bad and the showing that they're

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Speaker 3: self interested in showing that they're evil, all right, And

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Speaker 3: that's how you win.

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Speaker 5: That.

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Speaker 3: You cannot just you cannot extract their their malfeasance and

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Speaker 3: their depravity from the reasons why normal people should be elected,

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Speaker 3: because that's what it's all about. That's that's what's causing

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Speaker 3: all the pay that's what's causing the high prices. That right,

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Speaker 3: high prices is because of tariffs and whatnot and people

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Speaker 3: losing ACA subsidies. Like this is all because these people

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Speaker 3: are depraved and evil and they don't give a fuck

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Speaker 3: about anybody other than themselves. And so you have to

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Speaker 3: talk about that all at once, and you have to

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Speaker 3: be blunt about what's happening. It can't be afraid to

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Speaker 3: say this guy is psycho. He can't be afraid to

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Speaker 3: say that that he's a malignant, narcissist, associopath and an

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Speaker 3: evil person. He's somebody that, you know, any normal person

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Speaker 3: has all. He has all the characteristics you absolutely would

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Speaker 3: tell your children not to emulate. Has no you know,

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Speaker 3: can't tell the truth, has no empathy, has you know,

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Speaker 3: all does nothing but set Avengage is completely self involved.

433
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: He and his and takes for what belongs to others.

434
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 3: You cannot you can't separate all that for why it

435
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: is that things aren't going the way people want to go.

436
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: It's all of a piece and you can't hold back,

437
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 3: and you can't hope that they just go away. You

438
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,239
Speaker 3: can't hope that that, oh, the wheels are falling up,

439
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: the bus, people are getting office. He's showing weakness because

440
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: if you do that, I mean, you act complacently. You

441
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 3: know he's going to be back.

442
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: May Garland, I think Mayor Garland. I mean all you

443
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: need to say is Mary Garland, Mary Garland, this is

444
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: not this is not what I think you're trying to

445
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: say is this is not a moment for This is

446
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: not a moment for for norms and institution protection. This

447
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: is a moment for for fixing.

448
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 6: Well that's right now illegal. The way you s for

449
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 6: norms is you fight, Okay, you fight, and you can't

450
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 6: do the things that you normally do, conduct politics as

451
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 6: usual because that you know, you're we're fighting for our

452
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 6: lives here, we're fighting for our lives. We're fighting for

453
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 6: the rule or fighting for constitutional democracy, and these aren't

454
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 6: normal times, and you can't. You know, we need people

455
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 6: who are going to come in. We don't necessarily want

456
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 6: to be career politicians. Career politicians. It's like, well, we

457
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 6: don't want to rock the boat.

458
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 4: We are going to do this.

459
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 7: We want to stick to our We want to stick

460
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 7: to our And you didn't go forward and do that

461
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 7: and you get elected to the same seat for decades. Right,

462
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 7: we're going to do We're basically they're not afraid. They're

463
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 7: not afraid to sort of make ways and take risks.

464
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: And you know, look look at me, right, I'm sixty

465
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: two years old. I never did it will tank you.

466
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: So I never thought seriously about going into politics and

467
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 3: running for public office until late in the morning or

468
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 3: November tenth of this year, and when the idea was

469
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: suggested me by somebody and you know, I can't do

470
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to do make a career of it.

471
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: Right, And I think, and I think one of the

472
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: problems we've seen is that there have been too many

473
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: people who go into politics because they can't get a

474
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: better job.

475
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, I'm retired, I should be skiing,

476
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 3: but I don't. I don't disagree with that. I don't,

477
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 3: but I also don't need to. I don't want to

478
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: be disparag There are a lot of there are some

479
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 3: great public servants you know, who have spent their lives

480
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 3: in politics.

481
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of people you've never fun a.

482
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: Lot of people who you know, there's there's a lot

483
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: of people who you know, they got out of the state,

484
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: some state legislature or somewhere they have trouble getting a job.

485
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: That's absolutely true. We need people who've done things elsewhere,

486
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 3: who have skills that can be applied to this circumstance,

487
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: this moment. And that's that's my pitch.

488
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: Yes, correct, George Conway, will you come back?

489
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: I will always come back.

490
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: Ian Bremmer is the president of the Eurasia Group. Welcome

491
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: too fast politics.

492
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 4: Ian, Hey, Molly, Yeah, I've seen you before.

493
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: So there's so much to talk about. I am without words.

494
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: How bad is kidnapping the president of another country and

495
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: his wife and bringing them to New York to stand

496
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: try How bad is it?

497
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 4: Well?

498
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, how destabilizing.

499
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 8: Is that it's not like invading Ukraine where the president

500
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 8: was democratically elected and trying to overthrow the country. And

501
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 8: you know, it's not as if Trump has engaged in

502
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 8: regime change because he's kept the regime in place and

503
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 8: he's not sending troops, so it's not like any and

504
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 8: no American men or women actually died during the military operation.

505
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 8: So I mean, there's a lot of like, if we

506
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 8: could just freeze the tape here, and if nothing else

507
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 8: were to happen, you might be like, oh, okay, splendid

508
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 8: little activity, right, feels like Grenada.

509
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 4: But of course it's not that simple.

510
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 8: It's that the United States now has some level of

511
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 8: influence on ownership.

512
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: Over what the politics are going to look like.

513
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 8: And you know, there's a big question of whether a

514
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 8: regime that is the same as the Maduro regime minus

515
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 8: Maduro is really going to listen to the United States

516
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 8: under you know, sort of dint of we will beat

517
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 8: you up for a long time, and what it means

518
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 8: if they don't, and how the Americans are going to

519
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 8: have to continue to respond. So you've kind of put

520
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 8: that marker in. And there is also the question of

521
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 8: how Trump is going to respond, not just about an

522
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 8: individual narco terrorist who should be out of power and

523
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 8: stole a democratic election and should be in jail, but

524
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 8: how he's going to now project his power having had

525
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 8: that win, because he now embraces the Donroe doctrine, and

526
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 8: there are lots of other places where he can cause

527
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 8: a lot of damage and he can destroy a lot

528
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 8: of relationships.

529
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: Right, So I want you to explain to the people

530
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: who are those of the podcasts who do not maybe

531
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: know about the Dunrow doctrine, a newly created doctrine created

532
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: by Donald Trump as a sort of parody of the

533
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: Monroe doctrine, but explain what the sort of the net

534
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: of it is.

535
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think he thinks it's a parody.

536
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 8: I think he believes that it is implies that America

537
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 8: should have to should have a foreign policy priority over

538
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 8: the political orientation and actions of everybody in its backyard

539
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 8: as defined by the president. Historically, the Monroe doctrine was

540
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 8: about the western hemisphere, so it was really about Latin America.

541
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 4: Today it is more expansive than that.

542
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 8: Certainly Trump would include Greenland in his discussion of the

543
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 8: Donroe doctrine. I would also say pragmatically, I would say

544
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 8: that last year Trump was really focused on tariffs and

545
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 8: that that was his principal tool to get the outcomes

546
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 8: he wanted not going to use tariffs as effectively this

547
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 8: year because he's got problems with the economy, and he's

548
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 8: got an election coming up, and he was also beaten

549
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 8: and bloodied by the Chinese and reacting.

550
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 4: To the tariffs he put on.

551
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 8: He had the back down, but militarily he has much

552
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 8: more capacity to act unilaterally without anyone hitting him back.

553
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 8: And so that combination of my backyard and the military

554
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 8: stick is what the down Roe doctrine is all about.

555
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 8: I do think that it is leading a lot of

556
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 8: countries around the world to say, we don't think we

557
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 8: can rely on the United States going forward.

558
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: One of the things that I hear from you in

559
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: this moment, which seems really clear, is that it's all

560
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: going to be about the second order effects, the things

561
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: that happen next. Those are going to be the things.

562
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: So Trump is talked to Joe Scarborough to I said,

563
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, very proud of what's happened so far. If

564
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: you went back to Kuwait in the nineteen nineties, after

565
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: the first military action by Bush Senior right in nineteen

566
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: ninety one, actually was a success. It was everything after

567
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: that that was a disaster.

568
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 9: I would say that that entire Iraqi operation was successful

569
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 9: because Bush showed restraint, because he didn't actually go ahead

570
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 9: to overthrow Saddam Hussein and take control of Iraq, even

571
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 9: though the Kurds felt completely sold out by the Americans

572
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 9: as a consequence.

573
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 8: It's not the only time the Kurds have felt sold

574
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 8: out historically. When I think about Trump, restraint is not

575
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 8: the first word that comes.

576
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: To my second or third, not usually, not usually.

577
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 8: So I mean Trump is likely to double down on

578
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 8: the basis of this just worked well for.

579
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 4: Me, and it's going to keep working well for me.

580
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 8: And the funny thing is, because so many people have

581
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 8: been asking me the last forty eight hours, Molly, They're like, well,

582
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 8: so is it about the oil, Is it about the drugs?

583
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: Is it about you know, democracy? You know what Macro.

584
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: Rubio does Anyone really think it's about democracy.

585
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 8: Well, I mean for Marco, I mean absolutely, I mean,

586
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 8: and for all the Venezuelans in exile, I mean, like

587
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 8: they really want, like you know, to be able to

588
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 8: run the country.

589
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: But then they shouldn't have kept the regime a jar.

590
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 8: Well, I mean even so, like you still wouldn't need

591
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 8: an actual transition unless you're prepared to like literally send

592
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 8: a proconsole down with all of the military support.

593
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 4: And the Americans don't buy that.

594
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 8: So, like I actually think I think Trump does not

595
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 8: care about what kind of government there is as long

596
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 8: as it supports the US. But I think that even

597
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 8: if you wanted a democracy, which Marco does and Trump

598
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 8: doesn't care, I think that you would actually work with

599
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 8: the military first. You wouldn't just go in and blow

600
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 8: them all up. So the first step was the right

601
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 8: step in my view, if you were going to go

602
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 8: about a regime change policy, if that was what you

603
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 8: wanted to do, People ask me, is it oil?

604
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 4: Is it drugs? At democracy?

605
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 8: And the funny thing is it's about removing Maduro. And

606
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 8: we need to remember that, Like Trump was really angry

607
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 8: at Maduro. Maduro is dancing and he's making fun of him,

608
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 8: and he gave him an ultimatum and he asked escalated, escalated,

609
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 8: And you know, inside the White House you had Steven

610
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 8: Miller telling Trump, you know, anything would be better than Maduro,

611
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 8: any outcome, chaos, military dictators, anything would be better Madu.

612
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: We just have to get rid of this guy.

613
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 8: And Trump has now gotten rid of this guy with

614
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 8: spectacular success.

615
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 4: So a big part of what Trump wanted to do

616
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 4: he has already.

617
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: Done it again. The problem is everything else that.

618
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 4: He is very likely to take it too far, yes.

619
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: But also even if he doesn't take it too far,

620
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: there's problems there too. I mean, if you look at right,

621
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you destabilize a region. You can't now put

622
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: the genie back in.

623
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 8: The bottle, having removed Maduro, with the military still there

624
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 8: and weakened a bit and no Americans on the ground.

625
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,479
Speaker 8: If the demands you make of Venezuela are reasonable, and

626
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 8: you've now got the former vice president acting president who

627
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 8: is actually more of a pragmatist, and it comes with

628
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 8: dealing with the private sector, for example, the possibility that

629
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 8: the Venezuelan economy could start to actually turn around is meaningful.

630
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 8: I mean Maduro was not jabez Jabez was like democratically elected.

631
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 8: He was charismatic, he was a revolutionary, cared about the people.

632
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: Maduro was like a thug and a criminal and.

633
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: A drug guy, right, but wasn't part of the economy

634
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: selling oil to Russia and China.

635
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 8: Did you see Molly that right after the US took

636
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 8: him out, that a whole bunch of tankers were allowed

637
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 8: through the blockade by the United States, And that clearly

638
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 8: was because the US is not trying. Number one, not

639
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 8: trying to fight with China, so they're going to let

640
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 8: them continue to export with China. Number two wants to

641
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,959
Speaker 8: show that they're engaging with the Venezuelan government, not trying

642
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 8: to beat them up economically as long as they behave nicely.

643
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 8: And number three, the Venezuelans actually don't have any more

644
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 8: oil storage, so they need to get that oil like

645
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 8: on the markets or it's going to damage the economy more.

646
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 8: And if the US is going to try to help

647
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 8: them rebuild and reinvest, then they don't want it to

648
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 8: get any worse. So there are legitimate reasons for the

649
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 8: US to allow that to happen.

650
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: What would be the dream scenario here, they let them rebuild,

651
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: they are able to run themselves they are able to

652
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: have free and fair elections.

653
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 8: Well, and that you would selectively use some pressure to

654
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 8: get the opposition that are claimed to be criminals but

655
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 8: aren't that are being held and get them released, and

656
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 8: that you work over twelve eighteen months to try to

657
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 8: have some level of power sharing agreement where the military

658
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 8: is still going to be there and their interests will

659
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 8: still be respected, but that a civilian government with opposition

660
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 8: members could actually be allowed to run and win.

661
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 4: But that is a process and it will.

662
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 8: Require long term negotiations and engagement with this government.

663
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 4: Is it possible. It's possible.

664
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: In recent history, we have yet to be able to

665
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: succeed doing that.

666
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 8: Right, I mean Panama, Right is the example people point

667
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 8: to where you get rid of Noriega after an American

668
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 8: marine had been killed.

669
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: But it's much smaller.

670
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: Oh, it's very small.

671
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: There's a number of reasons why it's not comparable.

672
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 8: And the US had troops on the ground, and the

673
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 8: United States had great intelligence and all the rest.

674
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: And also had the Panama Canal.

675
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 8: Right, But Venezuela is not going to be Iraq, right,

676
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 8: Venezuela is not going to have a civil war. You

677
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 8: don't have sectarian divides there, you have a recent history

678
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 8: of democracy. There are lots of middle class educated Venezuelans

679
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 8: that would love to come back and invest if the

680
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 8: country actually could be well governed. But there is a

681
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 8: level of building material there, and I'm talking like civic

682
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 8: and human building material that you did not have in

683
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 8: Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya. And that also matters. So

684
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 8: we can't, you know, we can't like treat all of

685
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 8: these countries as if they're just identical disasters.

686
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: Right. But Trump, instead of focusing on sort of the

687
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: success there, his admin has now started making overtures towards Greenland.

688
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, and you know that maybe we need to make

689
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 8: a strike on Columbia and we.

690
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 4: Hate Petro and that's a great idea. And you know

691
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 4: what about Cuba and all the rest?

692
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: And why why?

693
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 4: Well?

694
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 8: Number one, because you can that it turns out that

695
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 8: the norms that Americans believed contained their president are norms

696
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 8: that can be broken and that no one is going

697
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 8: to stand up and stop him. And he has proven

698
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 8: that time and time again, and much more effectively in

699
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 8: his second term, now that he has loyalists around him

700
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 8: and he has some experience than anyone would have expected.

701
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 8: So part of it is that, part of it is

702
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 8: his desire for wins and to be the historic president.

703
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 8: Because the thing about Greenland that upsets me, and I

704
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 8: use that term advisedly. I rarely get upset about things,

705
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 8: but I'm upset about this. The United States can achieve

706
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 8: any policy goal it wants with Greenland negotiating with one

707
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 8: of our most aligned tiny allies, Denmark. If we want

708
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 8: to have more access for the American military to expand

709
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 8: bases on territory which basically is unpopulated, they are more

710
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 8: than happy to provide that. If we want intelligence and

711
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 8: listening bases, absolutely no problem. We wanted to launch station

712
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 8: for elon Musk and SpaceX, they will make that happen.

713
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 4: You want to make sure that we have the ability to.

714
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 8: Exploit natural resources, minerals, fish, they will negotiate that. The

715
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 8: only thing they will not negotiate is that Greenland is

716
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 8: a part of Denmark that is not up for negotiation,

717
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 8: and that apparently is the single thing that Trump has

718
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 8: decided that he absolutely has to have.

719
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: I want to talk about this top risk support that

720
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: you guys just publish, because ostensibly we're supposed to be

721
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: talking about that, but so much has happened that you

722
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: have just well, I mean.

723
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 8: By the way, all of the stuff we're talking about

724
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 8: is risk Number three is the Donro doctrine. It's there,

725
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 8: and it's also the US political revolution, and it is

726
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 8: this is the year where the United States is driving

727
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 8: the majority of the geopolitical uncertainty.

728
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 4: Around the world. So that is what we are talking

729
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 4: about the top Vers report.

730
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: There's no question which is insane. I mean, I don't know.

731
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: I think you're a little older than I, but like

732
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: the way I grew up, the idea that America we

733
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: are now the rogue actor is just insane to me.

734
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I know we've had moments where the country

735
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: has seemed to make a wrong move, but this seems

736
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: the sort of untetheredness of our leader seems completely crazy.

737
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 4: In my mind.

738
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 8: I described Trump as not the cause, but as a symptom,

739
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 8: as a beneficiary, and as an accelerant, because I don't

740
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 8: think this is new and I don't put it all

741
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 8: on Trump at all. I think that for a long time,

742
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 8: a growing number of Americans felt that the United States

743
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 8: was acting as the global policeman, with its troops putting

744
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 8: them in Harm's way at huge expense. The US was

745
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 8: acting as the architect for free trade, but not paying

746
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 8: attention to the hallowing out of jobs in the United States,

747
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 8: not supporting the social contract, and the US was promoting

748
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 8: democracy around the world at a time that the average

749
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 8: American felt that the US system was not democratic for itself.

750
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 8: And you know, one of the things that I find

751
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,959
Speaker 8: most interesting is that among Americans in the twenty twenty

752
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 8: four election who say that democracy was an important reason

753
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 8: that they voted, maybe not the most important reason, but

754
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 8: an important reason. More of those Americans voted for Trump

755
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 8: and commelaers because they believed that the country was already

756
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 8: so unrepresentative and captured that they wanted someone that was

757
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 8: willing to break the system.

758
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 4: And Trump is that Trump is someone who was willing

759
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: to break the system.

760
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: But it's a year later, and if you check back

761
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: in those people, none of them are happy.

762
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 4: Oh that's not fair. Well, the magabase is the megabase

763
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 4: is right.

764
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: But the low frequency voters, if you look at his

765
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: numbers with young people, the people who are the recent

766
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: converts to trump Ism, a lot of those people have

767
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: taken it back.

768
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 8: Your point is correct, but a strong majority of the

769
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 8: people that voted for Trump still support Trump and what

770
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 8: they got it's exactly what they wanted.

771
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the magabase. You can't win with the magabase.

772
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 8: Right, No, you can't win with any base in the

773
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 8: United States. The country's incredibly, incredibly divided. But the fact

774
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 8: that you have thirty thirty five percent of the United

775
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 8: States that believes that the system is that broken implies

776
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 8: that the system is probably reasonably close to that broken.

777
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: I would add, the people who believe the system is

778
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: broken is a different circle on the been diagram, because

779
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: those are the people. Some of those people are Indies,

780
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: some of those people are people of color who voted

781
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: for Trump a year ago and who've changed it. So,

782
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say the magabase is partially disruptors

783
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: and partially just people who vote for a Republican no

784
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: matter what.

785
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 4: But I'm just saying that.

786
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 8: I think that there is a structural move for the

787
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 8: United States to say we don't support free trade, we

788
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 8: want industrial policy period.

789
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 4: I think there's a structural move for the.

790
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 8: United States say we want to stop having these troops

791
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 8: all over the world doing all this stuff for allies

792
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 8: that are actually weaker and they're not growing and they're

793
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 8: not productive and they're not spending period.

794
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 4: And there's a lot a lot.

795
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 8: Of people, there's a lot of support for people saying

796
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 8: we will stop all that immigration because you've got to

797
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 8: take care of us first before you bring in more

798
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 8: immgrants done. Those are structural points, and they're playing out

799
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 8: all over the world, right all over the world.

800
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: For sure, I would say they were structural points, because

801
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean Venezuela. Trump has said any number of things,

802
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: he's going to run it, he's going to send boots

803
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: on the ground, he's going to do this, He's going

804
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: to do that. None of those are America first.

805
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 3: Right.

806
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 8: Well, he's been very very careful thus far, and again

807
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 8: he can change his mind at any moment.

808
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 4: But the twelve Day War in Iran splendid.

809
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 8: Little war operation that we actually saw and experienced in Venezuela.

810
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 4: Splendid little war. And by the way, it would not

811
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 4: surprise me.

812
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 8: I don't know if they've discussed this, but it wouldn't

813
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 8: surprise me that if it turns out if he needed

814
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 8: boots on the ground, wouldn't surprise me if at all.

815
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 4: If he did.

816
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 8: The Russian Wagner Group type thing, mercenaries private sector.

817
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 4: Not sending Americans to die.

818
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 8: Wouldn't shock me at all, because he's so focused on

819
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 8: Americans want to stop doing this.

820
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 4: I do think that's a real thing that he has.

821
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: Again, who knows what he does. It's all completely nuts.

822
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 4: But I'm not willing to go there.

823
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: Right, we don't know what he's going to do, because

824
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: that's the Madman theory, right, it's Nixon plus plus plus.

825
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about the real teriff right

826
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: because I think really good reporting in the Times a

827
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, the real tariff, right is not

828
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: the terifrate that the Admin is selling it as. What

829
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: is a real tiff rate?

830
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 8: And why I think the real terif rate now right

831
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 8: now blended is about what fifteen seventeen percent?

832
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 4: It's something like.

833
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: That, something like that.

834
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 8: And it's like with the IEPA ruling with the Supreme Court,

835
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 8: assuming some constraints, it's probably going to come down a

836
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 8: bit and there's going to be more deals.

837
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: Don't have the Indian deal yet, that's going to get done.

838
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 8: Twenty twenty five was the year of talking about tariffs

839
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 8: and that uncertainty. Two twenty six, Trump cannot continue to

840
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 8: use tariffs in that way. He has to get prices down,

841
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 8: he knows it. He has to get more deals signed

842
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 8: with countries. He knows it. He can't fight with the Chinese.

843
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 8: He understands that too. That's the other component of the

844
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 8: Donroe doctrine is Economically, the world is globalized, it is interdependent,

845
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 8: supply chains are sticky, and it is multipolar. Militarily, the

846
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 8: world is unipolar militarily. The United States actually is by

847
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 8: far the most important player and can determine outcomes to

848
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 8: a much greater degree. And Trump is going to lean

849
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 8: more into now the places where he has more influence.

850
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see what happens.

851
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 4: Ian.

852
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. I hope you'll come back.

853
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 4: Sure moly, love you see Sue.

854
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: A moment Sue.

855
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon by junk Fast.

856
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: So the Corporation for Public Broadcasting has dissolved after the

857
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 2: federal funding cuts after six d years. This is going

858
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 2: to be quite shitty.

859
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: So the Corporation for Public Broadcasting again, Like, this is

860
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: something we talk about a lot, which is what does

861
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: your government important? Where did your tax dollars go? So

862
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: we're seeing with Trump, we don't know what's going to

863
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: happen yet, but they did kidnap the president and his wife,

864
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: even Azuela. So let's talk about this. That's tax dollars, right,

865
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: So let's talk about these tax dollars. So these tax

866
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: dollars are gone, the tax dollars that supported NPR, PBS

867
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 1: and a lot of public radio stations, they're gone. That's

868
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: over ended by a cabal that involved Elon Musk, but

869
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,479
Speaker 1: was always the plan comes from Project twenty twenty five.

870
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: The idea was, why should tax dollars go to subsidizing

871
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: any kind of news? The thing I think is important

872
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: and I want to go back to Nick Shalley for

873
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: a minutes. Nick surely is a product of a world

874
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: that good country, really, that prioritizes clickbait and big headlines

875
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: and no reporting right. Because if Nick sually had a

876
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: team or even a lawyer, right, or even any kind

877
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: of accountability, he would have read the many, many, many

878
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: articles about the story. But he didn't because there's no infrastructure.

879
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: Because the rewards are for people who say things that

880
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: are provocative and not for the truths. That's behind it.

881
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: And so what we're seeing here is a culture that

882
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: does not really give a fuck about the truth. And

883
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: that is why we are going to see PBS and NPR.

884
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: They have now gotten rid of that organization. It no

885
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: longer exists. The public is no longer funding broadcasting. It's

886
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: pretty shocking. Just like with the vaccines, it will cause

887
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things, and we talk about

888
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: this in this Ian interview in Gremar, is that there

889
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: are all all sorts of second order effects coming from this.

890
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have reporting, you don't so you're

891
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: not going to know what's happening. So you'll have more

892
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: government corruption, you'll have more state level corruption, you'll have

893
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: more of all of this stuff. You know, just like

894
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: when you cut vaccines, you have more sick kids, When

895
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: you cut reporting, you have more crime, you have more

896
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: corruption that's not exposed. And that is what we'll see here.

897
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: So just like when you kidnap the leader of a nation,

898
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: you open the door to second order effects. That's what

899
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: we're looking at here. That's it for this episode of

900
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday

901
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: to hear the best minds and politics make sense of

902
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send

903
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks

904
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: for listening,