Speaker 1: My guest today is American journalist and television news anchor
Speaker 1: Chris Cuomo. He has interviewed presidents and world leaders, reported
Speaker 1: from war zones, covered the nine to eleven terrorist attacks,
Speaker 1: and shared hundreds of powerful, eye opening stories impacting the
Speaker 1: lives of everyday Americans, and is currently at NewsNation, also
Speaker 1: traveling around the country and the world covering world news events.
Speaker 1: Chris was previously at CNN ABC's twenty twenty Good Morning America,
Speaker 1: Fox News, and now he's hosting Cuomo at NewsNation. This
Speaker 1: is just be with Chris Cuomo. Let's get into it,
Speaker 1: all right. So, Chris, you and I know, I know you.
Speaker 2: I remember knowing you from years back.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was as confident as I am
Speaker 1: now to just start engaging. But back then, I think
Speaker 1: you were friends with a guy named Franny who dated
Speaker 1: my friend Michelle.
Speaker 3: Right, Francis Grecco brand, the handsome man, we.
Speaker 2: Called him, and you forgot that right.
Speaker 3: First turned into this great clinical psychologist who's helping all
Speaker 3: of these vulnerable populations and has a really robust practice.
Speaker 1: That's so funny that Michelle became a social worker. So
Speaker 1: they were actually decently matched at the time.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: And that's when I met you and you were living
Speaker 1: in the city. What had just gone to law school?
Speaker 1: Like just running around live in the city, fun life
Speaker 1: like we were.
Speaker 3: Practicing law, practicing.
Speaker 2: Excess, practicing excess. Where did you grow up in the city.
Speaker 3: Hollis Queen's And then when I was a teenager, they
Speaker 3: moved me to Albany when my father became governor, and
Speaker 3: I went to a military school there.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, right right. I was in Queen's too, I
Speaker 1: was in Forest Hills. And where did you go to school?
Speaker 3: I went to a Catholic school, okay.
Speaker 2: And then what about college? Law school too?
Speaker 3: For college, I went to Yale and for law school
Speaker 3: I went to Fordham in New York City.
Speaker 1: So you were on the path, and what was your goal?
Speaker 1: Do you always goal oriented? Because coming from a family
Speaker 1: that's so accomplished, that would be laced with a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure.
Speaker 2: I would think to like be on some path, you.
Speaker 3: Know, the family is very intense, but I wouldn't. I
Speaker 3: think the idea of being an elite family really kind
Speaker 3: of myths it a little bit, you know, Except for me,
Speaker 3: this was a very normal Italian Catholic Queen's family. Even
Speaker 3: when my father got into politics, which was late in life.
Speaker 3: I'm much younger than my siblings, my oldest siblings sixteen
Speaker 3: years apart, so you know, she knew a very different existence.
Speaker 3: He was a lawyer, then he got involved in suing
Speaker 3: the city, and then these guys at the Ninth Columpus
Speaker 3: tried to get him into politics, and he started getting
Speaker 3: in and just losing and losing and losing because he
Speaker 3: didn't have any of the tools and the connections. So
Speaker 3: I had two very different lives. I like to do
Speaker 3: it as a joke. I say, thirteen years of my
Speaker 3: life Archie Bunker kind of existence. You know, I knew
Speaker 3: a lot of people like that. And then the next
Speaker 3: ten years was Benson Executive Mansion, which was a museum
Speaker 3: that had tours, and all of a sudden I was somebody,
Speaker 3: you know, because so I knew what it was like
Speaker 3: to just be a regular kid, regular person, regular ambitions.
Speaker 3: I thought celebrities were the people who had made it
Speaker 3: onto dance Fever from my neighborhood. I still remember their names,
Speaker 3: Billy Nelly and Christina Trevellino. They were this it was
Speaker 3: like whoa you met Denny Terrio. And then from that
Speaker 3: to a parade of the most powerful and famous people
Speaker 3: in the world because my father was such a magnet.
Speaker 1: That's a good recipe for politics, though, because you do
Speaker 1: require a certain amount of polish and a certain amount
Speaker 1: of grit for I think, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You don't want to seem too precious and too privileged,
Speaker 1: but you got it not seem too rough because you're
Speaker 1: relating to so many different types of people.
Speaker 2: You don't scare people either.
Speaker 3: You are correct up until maybe six seven years ago,
Speaker 3: where now I'm not really sure what the formula is.
Speaker 3: There's true ession without tiders that what you would call polish.
Speaker 3: They see as elitist affect. And I think everything's kind
Speaker 3: of up in the air right now about what matters
Speaker 3: and what doesn't and having to have a side. Everything
Speaker 3: is for or against. You know, we're coming up.
Speaker 1: It is very Yeah, it's it's a zero sum game.
Speaker 1: It's it's the craziest thing ever. It's it's it's the
Speaker 1: upside down. But I and I think that there but
Speaker 1: I think that there is a level now of people
Speaker 1: just wanting authenticity, no matter what form it is.
Speaker 2: But they don't really know.
Speaker 1: You can't really know what authenticity is it's hard to
Speaker 1: know because someone could just be a great actor.
Speaker 3: People can fake it till they make it. And also
Speaker 3: you have all these haters telling you things about people
Speaker 3: that you assume that what they're talking about, and they're
Speaker 3: just making it up for advantage. I mean that's really
Speaker 3: and I've seen this with you in your start them. Also,
Speaker 3: you know that once you started to be an organic
Speaker 3: avenue of your own success, people want your success. Uh
Speaker 3: so they start to say things and create.
Speaker 4: Narratives and all this, and you've got bred how to
Speaker 4: navigate what you choose to take on, which the downside
Speaker 4: on as a as you're as who you are.
Speaker 3: For people who know you, you would take it on.
Speaker 3: But now you have people telling you, but Bethany, you're
Speaker 3: just going to give it energy and you're going to
Speaker 3: give it attention. Now more they're going to know. And
Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, but this is true. I didn't do that.
Speaker 3: I'm not like that. This isn't what it's about. And
Speaker 3: it's they're just going to write it up, both sides
Speaker 3: of it, and you're gonna lose and it's not worth.
Speaker 2: It, and that totally.
Speaker 1: Maria Striver was on here and she said she had
Speaker 1: to be of service. That was what was going on
Speaker 1: in her family like that, that she just had to
Speaker 1: be of service. And it sounds like that's what must
Speaker 1: have been going on with you, was that, like you
Speaker 1: just had to do something.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Shrivers are an extraordinarily advanced family in
Speaker 3: terms of you know, you had Sergeant Shriver, you had
Speaker 3: Eunice Kennedy, obviously Shriver, her brothers. They started so many
Speaker 3: amazing things. I mean, they're kind of two generations deep
Speaker 3: across board, whereas we're like two jobs deep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's still the you know, I'm raising our
Speaker 1: kids is different than the way we were raised. So
Speaker 1: you were half privileged, half street now yeah, and now
Speaker 1: you have kids though that are fully privileged. And it's hard,
Speaker 1: you know, like I've said before, it's hard to get
Speaker 1: on the first class and be like, oh you have
Speaker 1: to walk like it's just not going to be the same.
Speaker 2: And it's a very hard dance.
Speaker 3: I'm sure it is. But of course, you know, look,
Speaker 3: all pain is personal, and people only see what they
Speaker 3: want to see, and there is a downside to the
Speaker 3: upside for kids whose parents are somebody. I mean, people
Speaker 3: see what they want to see. So there is a
Speaker 3: price that goes along with fame and stardom, and you're
Speaker 3: not allowed certain things that other people are. But of
Speaker 3: course then you have benefits. Being in the news business
Speaker 3: is a little bit of a tweener, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. You're not really a celebrity. You don't really
Speaker 3: have a fan base. You know, it's a little different now.
Speaker 3: It's changing because people are picking sides and they're becoming
Speaker 3: commentators and stuff. But still with my kids, you know,
Speaker 3: they had to deal with some shit that I really
Speaker 3: wish that they hadn't had to. Yeah, and one of
Speaker 3: my only regrets. I'm not a regret person. I really
Speaker 3: don't believe it's a valuable thing. There are plenty of
Speaker 3: things where I fucked up and I wish I hadn't
Speaker 3: done that. I wish I hadn't gone that way. I mean,
Speaker 3: it happens. It happened this morning, but I never knew. See,
Speaker 3: when you're really focused on something and you know, your
Speaker 3: aperture gets really tight. So for me, when my brother
Speaker 3: was in trouble, you know what, you what were you
Speaker 3: raised about? You're all family all the time. People are
Speaker 3: gonna come after pop. They're gonna come after what's going on.
Speaker 3: They're gonna be looking for you know that people are
Speaker 3: gonna be looking at you. All you got is each other.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna be like each other all the time,
Speaker 3: and you're not going to like each other all the time,
Speaker 3: but you're all you have.
Speaker 5: When shafick the Kardashians, well, yes, and starting on a
Speaker 5: contemplated but you know that's how I was raised.
Speaker 3: So when Andrew was in the suit, obviously I was
Speaker 3: gonna help him, not that I had to cover for him.
Speaker 3: This isn't a mafia caper. I didn't do things that
Speaker 3: were wrong. I didn't work the press. I didn't go
Speaker 3: after his accusers, and nobody has to believe me. I
Speaker 3: gave a long interview with the Attorney General. They did
Speaker 3: their fact finding. They found nothing different than what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: and the people who are doing that stuff for Andrew
Speaker 3: in the politics game will now testify that go after you.
Speaker 3: He was nothing but a pest. You worked the meeting he.
Speaker 1: Was, yeah, I'm of course I remember it, and we
Speaker 1: all were sitting home stuck. So it was the worst
Speaker 1: possible time it could happen, because you had to just
Speaker 1: live in it. It was like people that got in
Speaker 1: trouble during the pandemic, really like it was all we
Speaker 1: could pay attention to, beside slow roasting chicken. And I
Speaker 1: would say, these people didn't stand by you ultimately, so
Speaker 1: you stood by your family. I guess you made a
Speaker 1: good choice. What if you said to you know, fuck
Speaker 1: you guys, I'm over here at CNN, and then they
Speaker 1: left you for dead, like your family's not going to
Speaker 1: leave you for dead, and you feel like you were
Speaker 1: left by a family at CNN for dead.
Speaker 3: My family, I don't even know how to conceive of it.
Speaker 3: You know, I've never had any one of my family
Speaker 3: not be there before. I asked, right, what I mean
Speaker 3: because I'm the youngest by so much, even though like
Speaker 3: I'm old now, fifty three years old, but they see
Speaker 3: things coming and dynamically you're they're there, like you don't
Speaker 3: even ask, you know, when people say what was the
Speaker 3: decision and helping your brother, I was like kind of
Speaker 3: plum mixed by that. I was like, what process? What decision?
Speaker 3: What do you mean I got trouble? You know? Right? No?
Speaker 1: No, no, it was your body and you were just
Speaker 1: exactly I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2: There's a show.
Speaker 1: Oh, the show, the Morning Show? Did you see the
Speaker 1: Morning show? That that?
Speaker 2: That's right?
Speaker 1: And and what's her name? It's Reese Waisman's character, and
Speaker 1: her brother does something significantly worse. He storms the capitol
Speaker 1: and she's not telling any she's not telling on him
Speaker 1: as a journalist. And I was like, and Paul, my fiance,
Speaker 1: was like her fucking brother. So, I mean, he said
Speaker 1: it a thousand times to me, and he's, you know,
Speaker 1: a pretty honorable guy, and he was like, I get it.
Speaker 1: It's my father, my brother, Like, I get it. So
Speaker 1: it was a hard situation.
Speaker 2: By the way, Oh what.
Speaker 3: I said all along, I never had problems with people.
Speaker 3: I never had people until it became weaponized politically. I
Speaker 3: said at the beginning, look, I'm not going to cover
Speaker 3: my brother's allegations. It doesn't make any sense. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm by it on them, So I'm just not going
Speaker 3: to cover it, which everybody got set it on TV.
Speaker 3: But you know, look, you know there is a price.
Speaker 3: You know, you sign up for this when you're in
Speaker 3: the media. There are rules and that doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: they're righteous rules, but there are rules.
Speaker 1: And did you know the rules is are the handbook
Speaker 1: that you know, and that you broke some rules or
Speaker 1: that you pushed the line, like where is the line?
Speaker 1: Should you've taken a hiatus, like taken six months off?
Speaker 2: What would you do differently?
Speaker 3: I offered to take time off more than once. I
Speaker 3: offered to leave more than once. They didn't want me
Speaker 3: to leave. I was the number one guy, right, and
Speaker 3: you know, everybody was like stop. Everybody gets it. It's
Speaker 3: your brother and you're not doing it on TV, and
Speaker 3: you know you're helping him in a private capacity, and
Speaker 3: people get that this is a one off. There's only
Speaker 3: one of you and one of him. Isn't something we
Speaker 3: see all the time, but we get it. And you know,
Speaker 3: they had changed their own standards. Andrew on TV more
Speaker 3: during the pandemic because they wanted him on and obviously
Speaker 3: it was going to be easier for me to get
Speaker 3: him on TV than you, right. You know what happened
Speaker 3: was the rule is what goes up comes down, and
Speaker 3: all that shine on Andrew as the love GOV and
Speaker 3: all that other bullshit. They hated it in the media
Speaker 3: because you know, they didn't want to love up my brother.
Speaker 2: You know, well they know they loved it for a while.
Speaker 1: When Ellen and Chelsea Handler, and I will be honest
Speaker 1: with you. I thought he was basking in it a little.
Speaker 1: I thought it was like a little month. I thought
Speaker 1: it went too far, like every morning we're having I
Speaker 1: thought it went too far. That was my honest, like
Speaker 1: as a civilian's opinion. I was just like, I believe
Speaker 1: in the wolves at the end of the bed. I
Speaker 1: believe that when you feel like you're peaking the wave
Speaker 1: is cresting, figure out what the fuck you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: It's not trees grow high, they don't grow to the sky.
Speaker 1: So I was going to ask you, I have this
Speaker 1: wolves at the end of the bed thing, and do
Speaker 1: you have that? Because if you were flying at the
Speaker 1: top and your brother Dan gets in trouble and it doesn't,
Speaker 1: didn't it feel swollen?
Speaker 3: Look. I used to talk to my brother on a
Speaker 3: regular basis, telling him, enjoy it. Now, what goes up
Speaker 3: comes down. You know they're gonna be coming for you.
Speaker 3: It's just a question of time. And he wasn't one
Speaker 3: of their favorites to begin with. I never contemplated it
Speaker 3: would take the shape that it did. And for your metaphor,
Speaker 3: I don't think the wolf is at the end of
Speaker 3: the bed. The wolf is in the bed most of
Speaker 3: the fight. You know, I wouldn't mind if it was
Speaker 3: a wolf. You know, the wolf's gonna bite you, and
Speaker 3: if you do the right things, you're gonna kill it.
Speaker 3: And in this well, you can't they get to judge,
Speaker 3: you know, what's right, what's wrong, what to put in whatnot,
Speaker 3: and they're look. I think the American media is one
Speaker 3: of the strongest pillars of our democracy, and it's certainly
Speaker 3: better than anything I've seen anywhere else in the world.
Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: things can't come out wrong. And you know what's the
Speaker 3: life lesson? The life lesson is forward forward. I cannot
Speaker 3: change anything. I am such a wet blanket on so
Speaker 3: much magical thinking. My wife runs a wellness business called Purist,
Speaker 3: and she's very spiritual and she's very into this, and
Speaker 3: she believes and energetic qualities of our assistance and all
Speaker 3: that stuff. And to me, it's like, there's no faith,
Speaker 3: there's no destiny, there's no luck. What happens in life
Speaker 3: is probability and chance and what you do with it,
Speaker 3: agree and you make things happen. It's not going to
Speaker 3: happen anyway.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1: I'm saying like, it's twenty twenty three and you're from
Speaker 1: my generation, and I get more views on my social
Speaker 1: media and make literally two and a half times the
Speaker 1: money I made at my highest payday on Housewives. Now
Speaker 1: I'm ahead of you in defecting from you know, the
Speaker 1: mainstream television sphere. But I'm saying, when you put the
Speaker 1: pieces together different way, the puzzle takes really nice shape.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But you are different than I am. You are an
Speaker 3: actual entity and commodity that people identify with certain values,
Speaker 3: certain likes, certain interests, and certain appeal. And I'm not
Speaker 3: surprised that you have been very successful, and I actually
Speaker 3: am not even that imp I don't think that you're
Speaker 3: anywhere near where you're going to be given what you
Speaker 3: mean to so many different people in our society. I
Speaker 3: am different. I am not because I can't be as
Speaker 3: satisfying to people. I don't have a set value of
Speaker 3: why do you watch this guy? I'm very frustrating for people,
Speaker 3: you know, even on things that like, you know, people
Speaker 3: want to be black and white, which is everything in
Speaker 3: our society right now. You know, and I get so
Speaker 3: much with digital media. Everybody threatens to kill you. You now,
Speaker 3: you know, like death threats, you know, become such a
Speaker 3: water down commodity. But it's like, stop showing the Palestinian injured.
Speaker 3: We don't know that the video is real. Okay, stops
Speaker 3: saying that Israel has an existential threat. Everything's so binary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you so first of all, you're so right
Speaker 1: about it being so black and white. Now more than ever.
Speaker 1: You can't have a conversation. You can't say I voted
Speaker 1: for that person. It's your fucking moron because I went
Speaker 1: to Harvard and you went to whatever. You're an idiot,
Speaker 1: Like you can't be like, oh, why did you vote
Speaker 1: for that part? I talk about this to Chris Wallace.
Speaker 2: You cannot.
Speaker 1: So people closet vote, they hide, they hide their opinions.
Speaker 1: You cannot have a different opinion. And it's so much hate.
Speaker 1: And it's supposed to be the time now where everyone's
Speaker 1: supposed to be honest and open, and it's scary. So you,
Speaker 1: as a person who has a party, you're on a side.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're flexible in certain matters. I mean, you're
Speaker 1: of a brain and a mind, and a heart. But
Speaker 1: how do you stick to your guns? Like in other words,
Speaker 1: Meghan Kelly's over there sticking her guns, Tucker Cross and
Speaker 1: sticking to his guns, Cannice Owens.
Speaker 2: They have big followings and they don't on the right.
Speaker 3: It's easy. The right is an animal. And as long
Speaker 3: as you're savaging the left and feeding people's outrage and grievance,
Speaker 3: we're addicted to grievance. But this job that she's doing now,
Speaker 3: she's made for Tucker Carlson, all these guys who have
Speaker 3: an agenda of motivating certain feelings and grievance. You don't
Speaker 3: have that in the regular world. And like I, not
Speaker 3: only do I not have a party, I think people
Speaker 3: should leave the political parties. They are absolutely the root
Speaker 3: of our problems. You never have them. They're not in
Speaker 3: the constitution, they're not creatures of law. Even the Supreme
Speaker 3: Court is said, they're just the function of tradition. They
Speaker 3: shouldn't control our process and that's the only way we
Speaker 3: can get back. A plurality of the country says they're independent,
Speaker 3: they don't want to be in either of the parties.
Speaker 3: That's our best.
Speaker 2: So I don't buy this about you.
Speaker 1: I think you're very very passionate, very smart, you're handsome,
Speaker 1: you're charming, you're funny. So why so where you've landed
Speaker 1: now at news Nation? What is this for you?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What do you and where do you have to temper
Speaker 1: the chocolate? You can't fully express your opinion.
Speaker 3: No, it's not about that. It's that it's just not satisfying.
Speaker 3: Like if you take an issue, you know, you got
Speaker 3: to have like this determined side where everybody who doesn't
Speaker 3: believe what you believe is toxic and that's what sells.
Speaker 3: That's what people are looking for, this outrage machine. Now
Speaker 3: will it stay like this? Yeah? Kind of It's always
Speaker 3: been this way. We just have more magnification of minority
Speaker 3: voices and opinions through social media than we used to have,
Speaker 3: and we're gonna have to balance that out with reach
Speaker 3: versus relevancy and value. You know, the marketplace will find
Speaker 3: its way. But you know, I'm not saying that I
Speaker 3: don't know how to communicate. It's that left is mad
Speaker 3: with me right now. I barely get Democrats on my show.
Speaker 3: Why well, either they're pissed and Andrew, or they're pissed
Speaker 3: at me by extension, or they're pissed because I have
Speaker 3: too many people who are on the right on and
Speaker 3: I don't believe. And I keep saying that the parties suck,
Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, okay, the parties are imperfect, but
Speaker 3: this is our system and the right is so much worse. Chris,
Speaker 3: that you're creating a false equivalency.
Speaker 1: Why don't you just get a little unhinged like this,
Speaker 1: Like just be not so polished, not so perfect, not
Speaker 1: so organized. It just be a little off the fucking grid,
Speaker 1: like be a little I've seen, but it's always a
Speaker 1: little more newsy, more like the traditional newsy, more than this.
Speaker 2: Well, I would like to see you fully on.
Speaker 3: I'm not, first of all, I'm not an unhinted person.
Speaker 3: It doesn't work for me, you know. I people think
Speaker 3: they're giving me a compliment. They say, man, Bethany, even
Speaker 3: though this isn't your personality, Bethany was I'm coming at
Speaker 3: you man, And you just was sitting there looking you
Speaker 3: almost had like a little bit of a smile on
Speaker 3: your face. How do you do that? It's very simple. One.
Speaker 3: When you've been doing this as long as I have,
Speaker 3: you understand that someone says the moment that I say oh, Bethany,
Speaker 3: I don't agree with you about which way we're going
Speaker 3: to take this product. You know you're an idiot. I'm
Speaker 3: an idiot as soon as you start talking about you personally, obviously,
Speaker 3: I don't have the ammunition on the argument anymore. Right,
Speaker 3: that's one. As a guy who has done nothing but
Speaker 3: study self defense and different fighting techniques for so many years,
Speaker 3: I don't take talk as the kind of provocation that
Speaker 3: most people do. When someone starts insulting me. In my mindset,
Speaker 3: how I am as a person, like my personality is
Speaker 3: as long as we're talking, there's no there's no threat here.
Speaker 3: You say whatever you want to say about me. I
Speaker 3: return the fire. But it's not because I'm some nice guy.
Speaker 3: It's that it's that you know, well, if we're going
Speaker 3: to have a real problem, then you're not gonna talk.
Speaker 3: You're gonna try to hurt me. Not you as a woman,
Speaker 3: because no, no, no, I know. But when a guy
Speaker 3: is saying mean things, say your mean things. We're still talking.
Speaker 3: Keep talking. I think it makes you look bad, But
Speaker 3: say whatever you want to say. Now, threaten my kids,
Speaker 3: put your hand on me. We have a very situation
Speaker 3: and I'm in the I'm in the hurt business. Once
Speaker 3: we do that, and that makes you very uncivilized. And
Speaker 3: I'm going to get in trouble. And I've gotten in
Speaker 3: trouble in the past, and I get it. But I'm
Speaker 3: not asking for people's vote, and I'm not a leader.
Speaker 3: But it's very easy easy for me to say civilized
Speaker 3: people are coming on to attack a position that I
Speaker 3: don't even hold.
Speaker 1: Well, do you sometimes enjoy? I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: you're unflappable, is what you're describing. But when when someone
Speaker 1: says to me, I was just talking about this yesterday,
Speaker 1: someone on TikTok, it could be anything or Instagram or somewhere.
Speaker 2: Oh she wow, she.
Speaker 1: Looks old, I'm like, I am old, Like I don't
Speaker 1: mind an insult, like I kind of absorb it and
Speaker 1: turn it into I'll turn chicken shit into chicken salad
Speaker 1: every day. I will, and I'll slap back, not in
Speaker 1: a way where I'm fighting with someone in like Twitter
Speaker 1: or something, but where I'll just disarm I beg someone
Speaker 1: who cares. They'll say, I, like, I think you care
Speaker 1: because you're here, Like you could go somewhere else, Like
Speaker 1: I kind of I don't want to say I enjoy it,
Speaker 1: but it means there's a pulse out there, if that
Speaker 1: makes any sense. Like I'm like, okay, I'm getting you.
Speaker 1: You're alive out there, all right. We're not agreeing with
Speaker 1: everything I say, but okay.
Speaker 3: You're not a you know, you're not someone who's gonna
Speaker 3: let somebody get away with things either. But there is
Speaker 3: a comfort when someone's saying you don't look good. You
Speaker 3: do look good, and you know you have confidence in that.
Speaker 3: So it's one thing. What happens to me is it's
Speaker 3: not you don't look good. It's more that I am
Speaker 3: being placed as part of a problem in society, anti American,
Speaker 3: anti this, anti that, part of this deep state, all
Speaker 3: this shit that is very hard to dispel. I mean,
Speaker 3: the prayer with this place, with News Nation is that
Speaker 3: they really seem to this point to be on the
Speaker 3: same page with Listen, I'm talking to regular people in
Speaker 3: a regular way. You want to talk words and concepts
Speaker 3: and history whatever. It's all I am as a student
Speaker 3: of this. I study everything all the time. This is
Speaker 3: my hobby, it's my vocation and my advocation. But that's
Speaker 3: not what I do on the show.
Speaker 1: Are you defined more by being pigeonholed into Democratic principles,
Speaker 1: or by your brothers by protecting your brother, covering for
Speaker 1: your brother.
Speaker 2: What's defining you?
Speaker 1: What do people in your community think, what a former
Speaker 1: colleagues think. You see somebody in the city at a restaurant,
Speaker 1: what do people think.
Speaker 3: My community where we live out in East Hampton, which
Speaker 3: is actually a pretty trumpy place, has been so good
Speaker 3: to me when they when I was really in the
Speaker 3: barrel and the paparazzi were coming after me and everybody's
Speaker 3: they were very protective, even guys who don't like you know,
Speaker 3: once they know me, they understand that I don't have politics.
Speaker 3: I really don't. I mean people, do I back Democrats
Speaker 3: absolutely if they name Cuomo, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: If my brother's running for he's the guy I think
Speaker 3: you should vote for him. Why my brother, that's why,
Speaker 3: and I love him and I believe he's the best.
Speaker 3: But other Democrats. No, the party doesn't resemble anything like
Speaker 3: what my father's party was. And do I vote Democrat? Yeah, occasionally.
Speaker 3: I'm not registered this one unless Andrew's running, you know.
Speaker 1: And then people more mad at you for being for
Speaker 1: thinking that you're a Democrat or for thinking that you're
Speaker 1: a Cuomo.
Speaker 3: Anti Trump, deep state, mainstream media whatever that means, Andrew
Speaker 3: is like at the bottom except for the media. For
Speaker 3: the media all.
Speaker 1: About that because they need a reason, they need to
Speaker 1: put it put, They need to skate something to put.
Speaker 3: On the rule and what The only thing that bothers
Speaker 3: me about it is and again, because you know, you
Speaker 3: can't fix things. You can only fix forward. You can't
Speaker 3: fix in the past. Time doesn't work like that. But
Speaker 3: the idea one. It pisses me off that all these
Speaker 3: people in the media tell me what happened with me
Speaker 3: and my job was wrong. Oh now you want to
Speaker 3: say that, But that bothers me a little bit, but
Speaker 3: I get it. That's how people become conciliatory. The other
Speaker 3: thing that bothers me is so you don't think that
Speaker 3: people in the media talk to and advised politicians. That's
Speaker 3: that's what you want people to believe that you, oh
Speaker 3: my god, never called up or had a relationship with
Speaker 3: a politician where you gave them advice. Wo when're in trouble,
Speaker 3: You've never said to a politician, oh man, this is
Speaker 3: playing bad. You better watch. You don't think there are
Speaker 3: reporters who came.
Speaker 2: It's funny.
Speaker 1: It's the one what comes to mind to me is
Speaker 1: like a Hannity or O'Reilly, Like that's who I think of,
Speaker 1: like calling up.
Speaker 3: They're not journalists. I'm talking about the same guys and
Speaker 3: women who have the high ground okay, you know, like
Speaker 3: they're not on the phone if they can get access.
Speaker 3: And and the politicians I grew up in this be
Speaker 3: like I watched this happen with and where they would
Speaker 3: talk to legendary journalists Residentacalarry Jack Newfield, I mean like
Speaker 3: the real guys and they'd marry him a rory and
Speaker 3: where they'd be like, so why don't you like this position?
Speaker 3: What's your problem with that? And they'd be like, well,
Speaker 3: here's a problem with this is the crime rate is
Speaker 3: up here and the people sixty two percent said they
Speaker 3: want the death penalty, and you keep yelling about no
Speaker 3: death penalty means going to beat you. Is that journalism?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: Or other advice about his position on the death penalty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think about how you grew up and like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's so crazy. That's I didn't think about
Speaker 1: what you don't do that.
Speaker 3: Kind of thing. That's the monstrably false. So there's a
Speaker 3: little bit of a hypocrisy. But look, I really I
Speaker 3: talk about it because it's over And.
Speaker 2: Are you writing a book on this whole?
Speaker 1: Like you need to write a book called not politically Speaking,
Speaker 1: because you're talking about a lot about it not being political.
Speaker 1: I think you should be like, are you writing a
Speaker 1: book on this anymore?
Speaker 3: When you look at what's happening and what people are
Speaker 3: fighting about at the highest levels, the highest levels. We
Speaker 3: just had a US senator decide he's not going to
Speaker 3: run and he can't even decide if he wants to
Speaker 3: run for president. Why because you don't know where the
Speaker 3: safe space is. And you know, mister Rogers taught us
Speaker 3: when we were growing up, look for the helpful people.
Speaker 3: Who are fucking helpful people. Everybody's gonna hurt, seems these days.
Speaker 3: One minute that your friend, the next minute they're coming
Speaker 3: after you. And I get it. And that's why I
Speaker 3: believe that the remedy is regularity. Just think about the
Speaker 3: rest of your life. Because I just came to my
Speaker 3: parent teacher conferences, Christina stayed behind. That's real life. Sitting down.
Speaker 3: Wait what a minute, wait what he didn't turn in?
Speaker 1: What I saw this right, you're saying, we spent all
Speaker 1: this time obsessing over things that don't come into play
Speaker 1: in our lives most of the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah what what? Now?
Speaker 1: What does your wife think about all this? You guys
Speaker 1: must have been through a roller coaster. You definitely have
Speaker 1: been through a crazy time. Your wife, dynamic your family?
Speaker 1: Does your brother feel guilty?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What's the dynamics swirling with everybody? There's gotta be some
Speaker 1: resentment or some odjita with everybody?
Speaker 3: There was, you know, twenty plus years of marriage, three kids,
Speaker 3: thirteen to twenty. There's plenty of them in and odgy to
Speaker 3: go around at. Look, there is no question. And I
Speaker 3: am trying, you know, to find ways to make this
Speaker 3: something other than just what it is. But this is natural.
Speaker 3: They got an unnatural life and I made it worse.
Speaker 3: Why because I dragged them into something that I wasn't
Speaker 3: even aware. I did not see this storm coming. I
Speaker 3: knew Andrew had trouble as soon as there was a
Speaker 3: handful of allegations in the Democratic Party. Allegations are enough.
Speaker 3: I knew he had trouble.
Speaker 1: I was telling you're saying you dragged your family, But
Speaker 1: does he feel he dragged you? And your family.
Speaker 3: Okay, Andrew feels tremendous skill little brother. All he wants
Speaker 3: is good things for me. He taught me how to
Speaker 3: ride a bike. He taught me how to play football.
Speaker 3: You know, my father was taking care of you guys.
Speaker 3: You know, he was in service pretty much my whole life,
Speaker 3: and he was obsessed with that. As you know, first
Speaker 3: generation born in this country. He believed that he owed
Speaker 3: it to America to do whatever he could, especially in
Speaker 3: New York. Andrew taught me everything. All of my interests
Speaker 3: in hobbies I learned from my brother.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 3: Oh, I take care of old cars. Andrew's a master mechanic.
Speaker 3: I fish. I'm much better at it than Andrew, but
Speaker 3: I whatever I do. All the fighting, Andrew was an
Speaker 3: amazing fighter. He's a great boxer. I don't box, but
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, so the idea that i'd be
Speaker 3: there for him, he'd be there for me, I've never
Speaker 3: considered any other option. Doesn't mean we get along all
Speaker 3: the time. Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to crack
Speaker 3: my head like an egg every once in a while.
Speaker 3: But you know he does. He feel guilty about it. Sure,
Speaker 3: one hundred levels. He had the mandate of the people
Speaker 3: of New York to do a job that he had
Speaker 3: to leave because of this, and it haunts him, and
Speaker 3: it haunts him that everybody had to deal with it,
Speaker 3: including my wife and kids and his kids, young empowered women.
Speaker 3: This was tough, and you know, you can't pretend it
Speaker 3: to happen. You can't try to make it something that
Speaker 3: it wasn't. You've got to see it for what it was.
Speaker 3: And the most important part of what it was is
Speaker 3: in the past. Is there a lesson for next time?
Speaker 3: Not really, because when's the next time that my person
Speaker 3: and I'm getting to this catacausm where I got to
Speaker 3: make a decision about whether or not to watch and
Speaker 3: burn or what you know. So that's not so helpful,
Speaker 3: that's not so instructive. I do take a lot of solace,
Speaker 3: as most of us should, if we're if we work
Speaker 3: on ourselves, if we have that insecurity to drive us
Speaker 3: through that, which I certainly do where I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't do that again. You know. Let me try
Speaker 3: this a different way. Let me try to work on this.
Speaker 3: Let me try to work on this in therapy. Let
Speaker 3: me try to work on this. Uh with a life coach.
Speaker 1: Working on yourself right, you stick stick of like workshopping
Speaker 1: the spirituality and bs of it. You just want to
Speaker 1: like this is now, what are we doing?
Speaker 3: The spirituality is not so much my thing. Philosophy is
Speaker 3: my thing. I'm fine with spirituality. Just let me see
Speaker 3: how you use it, don't put it on me. I
Speaker 3: don't want conversations about why you're so right about what
Speaker 3: you believe. So I work on myself all the time.
Speaker 3: Why we'll plenty to do, That's why. And I am
Speaker 3: racked with uh, negative emotions about the whole situation. I mean,
Speaker 3: I lost a tremendous amount.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're raw.
Speaker 3: Not raw. I'm just realistic, you know. And I'm flawed
Speaker 3: and I don't believe in fair. My therapist says it's
Speaker 3: the only four letter word. Look. Ultimately, everybody figures out
Speaker 3: what their strengths are. I have two real strengths. Okay,
Speaker 3: one's personal, one's professional. My personal strength is I have
Speaker 3: an amazing ability, a gift to draw better people than
Speaker 3: I am to me, my friends and the people in
Speaker 3: my life. Like last night, I just did a talk
Speaker 3: with Chuck d from public enemies and friends of mine
Speaker 3: for a long time, I have all these mentors in
Speaker 3: my life who are like just a little ahead of
Speaker 3: me in life, some of them behind. On the on
Speaker 3: the fight side, a lot of the guys are younger,
Speaker 3: even though my main coach is in the sixties, and
Speaker 3: they're better than me at whatever it is that connects us.
Speaker 3: They're better and they be better. They're better fathers, they're
Speaker 3: better husbands, they're better fighters, they're you know, they're they're
Speaker 3: better at these things. And professionally, my ability is to interpret.
Speaker 3: I don't come up with the idea. I don't come
Speaker 3: up with the position. I have an ability, I think
Speaker 3: through training, disposition, and experience where I can take things
Speaker 3: that you say about whatever it is that you're relevant
Speaker 3: on in that moment and then say to people who
Speaker 3: don't know what the way you do. Look, here's what
Speaker 3: she meant, okay, or here's why this matters and this
Speaker 3: is not what you're being told, or you need to
Speaker 3: listen to this part more.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm able to do, crystallizing it.
Speaker 3: And I think that there is a need for that
Speaker 3: right now, not Herey Biden shouldn't be president. There's plenty
Speaker 3: of people to do that, plenty of people. For me,
Speaker 3: it's what do you need? What do you need? What
Speaker 3: matters to you? You know, the reason you have shitty
Speaker 3: candidates is because you have a shitty process that one
Speaker 3: squeezes people in these very narrow lanes to get to power,
Speaker 3: and nobody wants to get it best and he doesn't
Speaker 3: want to run for office and have people dig into it.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting concept too. Right when we were kids,
Speaker 1: it was like you could be president in it. I
Speaker 1: actually think because of all the relief work, everyone's always
Speaker 1: like run for president. I'm like, what, I don't even
Speaker 1: want to like work with the government on relief work.
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to answer to anybody and
Speaker 1: be part of any of that.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a disaster. I can't imagine wanting that job.
Speaker 3: Eve. It's the salvation too, because we've become too top
Speaker 3: heavy and in our local Community's another thing that regular
Speaker 3: people know. Okay, So like Christina, because you know, Christina
Speaker 3: is the virtue one, Like you know, I hate to
Speaker 3: do stereotypes, but we have them for a reason, right,
Speaker 3: Christina is the melding of this and this, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, and all this, you know, everything's.
Speaker 2: A nail to me and I was listening.
Speaker 1: He did heart and head and then she's he's I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: she's the heart and the head and he's the fist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, intellectual, I know a lot, but
Speaker 3: in terms of behavior, dynamics and relationships, I'm the warrior,
Speaker 3: I'm the protector.
Speaker 2: And what does that make you? Are you emotionally intelligent?
Speaker 3: I am. I work on it all the time. I
Speaker 3: have some gifts. I was raised by women. I have three,
Speaker 3: six older than me, and of course my mother who's
Speaker 3: still with us, And I lived with my grandparents for years,
Speaker 3: and my grandfather was senile, so my grandmother was really
Speaker 3: you know. I used to have to follow my grandfather around.
Speaker 3: He like walk away and beautiful men grosser and so
Speaker 3: I had a lot of alpha women strong and that
Speaker 3: wasn't a thing then. It was just like the way
Speaker 3: you were supposed to be.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Christina though, like, what how
Speaker 1: do you have a twenty year marriage? I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's thriving. I know it's surviving because I mean,
Speaker 1: you got through what you got through and you're together.
Speaker 1: But I've only the longest relationship I've ever been in
Speaker 1: is five years. I know, that I say that like embarrassed,
Speaker 1: you know, like I like, like, I've never said that
Speaker 1: to anybody before out loud, because I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: want people to realize it's true.
Speaker 2: But it's true.
Speaker 1: And so I always am. I always struggle between the
Speaker 1: fairy tale and the reality and the struggle and the
Speaker 1: thriving and the surviving and a relationship when I look
Speaker 1: at other people's relationships, because I know people have problems
Speaker 1: and struggle and I kind of want to hear about
Speaker 1: your relationship a little bit.
Speaker 3: Any any adult knows that one a relationship is work
Speaker 3: more than it is anything else. You can embody it
Speaker 3: in an emotional principle like love, but what what is?
Speaker 3: What is love? Love? In this context is somebody else's
Speaker 3: needs and wants matter as much to you as your own.
Speaker 3: It's too easy today. I'd take a bullet for you. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I know. Would you give me the last an espresso pod? Yes?
Speaker 3: So that you know it's about the context and people pose, okay,
Speaker 3: they want you to think good things about them. You
Speaker 3: wander about your marriage about this, and you know, when
Speaker 3: you're examined as much as we are, you wind up
Speaker 3: a lot of letting a lot of that shit go.
Speaker 3: You know, well, why are you still married? Well, because
Speaker 3: that's the sum total of our existence. What does that mean? Well,
Speaker 3: that's what we see in our families. You know, there
Speaker 3: have been some marriages that haven't worked. It's nothing wrong
Speaker 3: with that. Marriages isn't a natural condition. This is construct
Speaker 3: that was developed for good and bad reasons over different
Speaker 3: cultural aeriots. But the kids matter more, you know, and
Speaker 3: they need us, and there's that, Uh, it's hard. There's
Speaker 3: an acceptance of hard much more on her part. It
Speaker 3: is work and the upside of.
Speaker 1: Well, then she has to accept that it's going to
Speaker 1: be hard because you were saying that it's hard to
Speaker 1: be in a relationship with you or your life that
Speaker 1: you chose for you.
Speaker 3: To harder to be in a relationship with me than
Speaker 3: it is to be in a relationship with her.
Speaker 2: That's no, that's exactly my situation. I'm you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shocking, but yeah, i'm you.
Speaker 3: You are not me. Do you understand, Like.
Speaker 1: No, in the dynamic, I'm you, it's not at dragon,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like having a believe in Dragon. I'm
Speaker 1: like i am I'm like having a pet porcupine. Okay,
Speaker 1: because anything that's I don't want anyone to ever like
Speaker 1: tell me what to do, put me in like I
Speaker 1: has to. I just you could say to me, we're
Speaker 1: having turkey for lunch, and I'm like why, Like, I
Speaker 1: just don't. I like to be free as a person.
Speaker 1: Like so it's funny. I'm very prickly about just nothing.
Speaker 1: I only sweat small stuff. The big stuff is no problem.
Speaker 1: I don't care about any of the big stuff. It's
Speaker 1: the tiny stuff that really I'm problematic about.
Speaker 3: Relationships. It's also about like, you know, look, there is
Speaker 3: no one size fits all. I love reading books on
Speaker 3: relationships because it's so it's such an exaggerated idea that
Speaker 3: there's something that works for everybody. It's like that, and
Speaker 3: every situation is different. And well, this marriage works because
Speaker 3: they don't live in the same state. And this marriage
Speaker 3: works because this is all the people in there chosen
Speaker 3: ethnicity or this is all they do is this. And
Speaker 3: this works because there's a codependency, you know. And this
Speaker 3: works because they just are both into the same thing.
Speaker 3: They're obsessed. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, there's a guy that we buy what we
Speaker 1: bought watches from before, this guy and you know, he's
Speaker 1: he's a watch he sells watches, so he's like half
Speaker 1: an asshole. But I'll say, gee, I'll say, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say his name. He's an asshole. And Paul said
Speaker 1: to me, yeah, but he's our asshole. So like sometimes
Speaker 1: I look upon, I'm like, you're an asshole, but but
Speaker 1: he's my asshole.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like that, you know what I mean, accommendation.
Speaker 3: Look, here's the problem with the dynamic, and this is
Speaker 3: the struggle, right, is that it's inherently selfish. Love is selfish.
Speaker 3: I tell my daughters all the time, be selfish and
Speaker 3: love whatever you want. You don't do anything for some
Speaker 3: guy you're not pretty because he says you're pretty, all right,
Speaker 3: you want to have him by the face and kiss him.
Speaker 3: You know, the whole shotgun and a shovel thing. I
Speaker 3: got over that, you know, as long as it's on you,
Speaker 3: and this is what you want, the knock yourself out
Speaker 3: your choice? Fine, but but what do we see? We
Speaker 3: see that very often people are making choices because they
Speaker 3: think those are the right choices to make. And this
Speaker 3: is an inherently selfish dynamic for us. You and I
Speaker 3: start fooling around the moment I start doing something that
Speaker 3: doesn't work for you. Gone. It could be a little
Speaker 3: I told this cat, he texts me this way one
Speaker 3: more time. He's a ghost. I do it again. Damn.
Speaker 3: When you're married, people no longer have that cautionary idea
Speaker 3: about best behavior. It's like, especially once you have kids together,
Speaker 3: it's like, where are you going? You know what I mean,
Speaker 3: You're gonna and those things start to not matter anymore.
Speaker 3: It's like, does this all my friends call me mo?
Speaker 3: There's most still texture like that be Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: give a shit anymore. You know what I care about
Speaker 3: is whether or not the dog throw up last night,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's like, so you know,
Speaker 3: there's a French expression that a guy used at my wedding,
Speaker 3: which I thought was like the worst thing he could
Speaker 3: have ever said, But I've learned to appreciate it over
Speaker 3: the years. He said in French it's called les petite more.
Speaker 3: I don't speak French little deaths, And he said that
Speaker 3: love is a series of tiny deaths. And I was like,
Speaker 3: in my wedding day, but it is the self has
Speaker 3: to die. Now. I know there's a million psychologists out
Speaker 3: there who going to tell me in therapists that I'm
Speaker 3: bullshit and you got to live within your own truth
Speaker 3: and you must be growing. Hasn't been my experience, my experiences,
Speaker 3: get over yourself. All right, Yeah she did that. Yeah
Speaker 3: he did that. Yeah that was fucked up? Now what right?
Speaker 3: You know? Normanlear gave me great life advice when I
Speaker 3: was in the barrel. There are only two questions you
Speaker 3: have to ask. He was listening to me for like
Speaker 3: ten minutes. Talk to somebody, and he said, uh, so
Speaker 3: what now what?
Speaker 2: Oh there's a book. Yeah that's yeah, so what now?
Speaker 3: So hard to practice, but it's like, okay, yeah, b
Speaker 3: did that. That's what happened, and it hurt. Now what?
Speaker 1: Doctor Amador wrote a book called I'm right, You're wrong?
Speaker 3: Now what?
Speaker 2: I love it. It's just like the same thing now
Speaker 2: what It's good?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So what about intimacy though? How do you how important
Speaker 1: is intimacy? How does it sustain? After twenty years? And
Speaker 1: I'm not singling you out of asked a lot of
Speaker 1: people about this, like what you know, how important is it?
Speaker 3: It's all about needs and wants. It's all about needs
Speaker 3: and wants, and everybody's different.
Speaker 2: Paul says, needs and wants to and.
Speaker 3: Then age matters. Okay, women fifty five, although we are
Speaker 3: there's always like some new understanding. My wife's not here.
Speaker 3: I'm saying, like, you get into that range where bodies
Speaker 3: are changing, you know what what what we crave starts
Speaker 3: to change? Right the guys, I was like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: so you know there are all these different factors that
Speaker 3: go into it. But again it's not one size fits all.
Speaker 3: You can have where they fuck like rabbits, you know,
Speaker 3: I have they been married forever, they have like I
Speaker 3: always having sex. I've never and I thought they were
Speaker 3: like kidding me, they're making it up, but then I'm
Speaker 3: making up. Then I have other ones that like, you know,
Speaker 3: they don't even know what they look like naked anymore.
Speaker 3: You know, it's right there is you don't know, and
Speaker 3: I don't can't tell you that this couple it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean as much to me as this couple, or that
Speaker 3: I don't appreciate what they're about as much, or that
Speaker 3: they don't seem to love each other as much. It's
Speaker 3: just different. Everybody's got different and we love to judge them.
Speaker 3: We love to judge them, and we love when relationships fail,
Speaker 3: you know, like this Jada Pinkett Smith's ship. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I what I don't understand? And this is I'm a journalist,
Speaker 3: I'm on cable TV. Both things. I have zero interest
Speaker 3: in people's love lives, even though that's not what marriage is.
Speaker 3: But unless it's instructive of something that applies almost.
Speaker 2: Universally, right, like this takeaway for you?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Why is everybody lifting the veil now in a different
Speaker 1: like Megan and Harry veil lifted.
Speaker 2: Let's show it.
Speaker 1: All Victoria Beckham and David Beckham like they're very wealthy, successful,
Speaker 1: way lift the veil?
Speaker 2: He cheated?
Speaker 1: This happened like Will Smith like a list actor, like
Speaker 1: lifting the veil? Why is everybody want like everybody know everything?
Speaker 1: You don't want to want to know everything? To rip
Speaker 1: the example.
Speaker 3: Culture dominates, especially with celebrities. Everybody you just picked is
Speaker 3: a celebrity, and people who crave attention and following. We
Speaker 3: are addicted to grievance. We went through a phase where
Speaker 3: you can lift the veil as long as it was
Speaker 3: a funk of you going to rehab, you know, and
Speaker 3: you getting on that thing. That was That phase is
Speaker 3: over now it's just who's more fucked up, what's the
Speaker 3: next fucked up thing?
Speaker 1: But it's not good for business because I think they're
Speaker 1: doing it for followers, and like Victoria Beckham is selling
Speaker 1: clothes the way that Kim does online, and maybe it's
Speaker 1: got to be only about money. But like I don't
Speaker 1: think it's good for Will's business. Maybe it's good for hers.
Speaker 1: It's not good for business at all.
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: My ep Dusty, who have known for thirty years, and
Speaker 3: my our oldest who's a twenty year old girl, and
Speaker 3: even my wife will all tell me the same thing.
Speaker 3: I look at Kardashian and I say, I remember when
Speaker 3: that video came out. I remember how that video was
Speaker 3: about ray J being endowed in a way that you
Speaker 3: do not normally see like Lee that's right side act
Speaker 3: was who he was having sex with? Who? And I
Speaker 3: remember this. I remember that this point of fast, I
Speaker 3: didn't know who she was. Nobody did, and it was
Speaker 3: is she like sleeping through this right now? With this
Speaker 3: you know this guy, the prowess that this guy was
Speaker 3: bringing there in the situation, How is she sleeping through this?
Speaker 3: How is she even barely aware? And it was almost
Speaker 3: like a joke, and then it blew up and I'll say, look,
Speaker 3: you gotta respect the success. I respect success, but I
Speaker 3: also believe. So what they'll correct me on is, no,
Speaker 3: that's all you see. You got stuck there that you
Speaker 3: see just that we don't see that. We see the
Speaker 3: next eight moves that made her who we're interested in watching.
Speaker 3: Then you only remember that because you're an old man
Speaker 3: and you're not into any of the stuff about them,
Speaker 3: because you don't watch any reality TV.
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 3: You understand how she plays within the sisters dynamic and
Speaker 3: the male and the babies and the landing.
Speaker 2: And the products and the chess. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: chess moves there.
Speaker 3: Understand all of that.
Speaker 2: You and like you, she comes from a powerful matriarch.
Speaker 1: You come from a powerful patriarch, like she's like the
Speaker 1: mom is very very you know, the Joseph Kennedy of
Speaker 1: the situation.
Speaker 3: So I used to be very like and I'm sure
Speaker 3: I've said publicly, I was like, you know, when you
Speaker 3: have the Kardashians, like, you know, your billionaires and the
Speaker 3: people everyone's looking up to, you know, you got to
Speaker 3: you gotta take a you got to stop and think. Well,
Speaker 3: now that I have stopped and thought, because one of
Speaker 3: the gifts, although I don't recommend it. Is when you
Speaker 3: get shit canned and you're sitting on your ass and
Speaker 3: your toxic and you got a year or so, do
Speaker 3: you you got a lot of choices about how to
Speaker 3: spend that time. And once I really went in on
Speaker 3: myself about I got to figure some shit out. I
Speaker 3: got to figure out how to get out of this
Speaker 3: hole and not get a job. I knew i'd get
Speaker 3: a job. I'm good at what I do, but I
Speaker 3: I you know, I could practice law, I could do
Speaker 3: all kinds of stuff. But the it was knowing I
Speaker 3: got to figure out, like what matters to me? Because
Speaker 3: this was so unsettling that I couldn't see myself ever
Speaker 3: going back into the media. When it happened, I was like,
Speaker 3: now it's just too fucked up. Oh yeah, And I
Speaker 3: was like, what am I about? What do I care about?
Speaker 3: Why do I care about it? Why do I why?
Speaker 3: Why are these things fucked up about me? And what
Speaker 3: have I not been listening to? And I was talking
Speaker 3: to my therapist and he's like, all right, good, So
Speaker 3: if you're willing, if you're ready to listen, I'll start
Speaker 3: telling you the same things I've been telling you for
Speaker 3: the last ten years and whether it was you know
Speaker 3: what was the lesson that's worth it because you know,
Speaker 3: my story itself gets kind of tedious? Is The word
Speaker 3: forward is obviously directional, right, but it's also suggestive of
Speaker 3: an intentionality. If you can inculcate who concepts into your
Speaker 3: life on a daily basis, this is straight up pragmatism. Okay,
Speaker 3: this requires no belief in anything bigger than yourself and
Speaker 3: your own reasoned choice. And they both start with the
Speaker 3: same three letters, but for different reasons, forgive and forward.
Speaker 3: If you can live those two ideas, you will absolutely
Speaker 3: no matter what you're dealing with. You've got terminal illness,
Speaker 3: you've got financial problems that are almost irreconcilable. You've got
Speaker 3: some asshole in your life that you don't know how
Speaker 3: to get rid of without a cost, and you a
Speaker 3: lot of money. You've got kids that you're worried about
Speaker 3: or they're worried about you. You have addiction, whatever it is,
Speaker 3: those mechanisms of forgiving yourself, because that's why we don't
Speaker 3: get better. The reason that I don't get better at
Speaker 3: things is because I don't believe I deserve to. I
Speaker 3: make the same fucking mistakes and poor choices in relationships. Whatever.
Speaker 3: The efficient buddy could be, my wife could be somebody.
Speaker 3: Just why because I'll put myself into the same situations
Speaker 3: because I don't believe I deserve anything better. I haven't
Speaker 3: really processed why I would do this and what I'm
Speaker 3: getting out of it or not getting out of it,
Speaker 3: and what I'm giving up. I don't do that because
Speaker 3: I'm a self loather. But that's a cheap it's easy.
Speaker 3: You self loather. Oh you know I'm a self loather,
Speaker 3: So I'm i'm.
Speaker 1: Now because then you limit yourself by categorizing yourself with that.
Speaker 1: It pushes you down, it limits you.
Speaker 3: Who structure Now, that's nature nurture. Also, I was raped
Speaker 3: self loath. Uh. And my brother is a self loather. Uh.
Speaker 3: He's also a genius, so he has like an offset
Speaker 3: of intellectualism with it. But it's I see it in
Speaker 3: myself like you and I will be I don't working
Speaker 3: out whatever, it's something something simple, and you'll be like,
Speaker 3: you know, you'll do whatever you do, and I'll be like,
Speaker 3: look at you feeling good about that. That ain't shit.
Speaker 3: I can do twice what you just did, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but what I did was good for me. No, I'm
Speaker 3: the standard. If you're not better than me, you suck.
Speaker 3: Now what is that? That's not healthy? Because why am
Speaker 3: I putting myself in a position of such low esteem?
Speaker 3: Why would you believe that whatever you are is the
Speaker 3: absolute minimum standard of anything? Why would you do that
Speaker 3: to yourself? Well, you know life is so hard, failure
Speaker 3: and setbacks and disappointment is so guaranteed. Why would you
Speaker 3: do anything to short yourself on upside? Because I can't forgive,
Speaker 3: and I struggle with.
Speaker 2: I am better with all I think, then I think.
Speaker 1: I spoke to Rob Low about when he was twenty
Speaker 1: six what happened, And it wasn't even he said his
Speaker 1: low wasn't even w and during at the convention he
Speaker 1: said it was like doing the Academy Awards and doing
Speaker 1: the snow white bit. But anyway, he said, like he
Speaker 1: was intentionally crashing himself into a brick wall. He needed
Speaker 1: to like, so this could be your moment of your life,
Speaker 1: your brick wall that you some people. Nobody gets out
Speaker 1: without paying the bill, so.
Speaker 2: You're riding high. You're good.
Speaker 1: Look, nobody gets out without paying the bill, so this
Speaker 1: you're paying the bill.
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. Look, I believe that the rent
Speaker 3: is do every day and the problems are the same,
Speaker 3: The challenges are the same. The manifestations change, but the
Speaker 3: rules remain the same. Forgiveness is the only way.
Speaker 1: So who do you forgive? And how do you move forward?
Speaker 1: You're moving forward, You're forgiving. Who do you have to forgive?
Speaker 2: Do you forgive? CNN? Do you watch it?
Speaker 1: You forgive Jeffice, Jeff Zucker Do you still hold anger?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 2: What's what's the arc