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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known facts

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Speaker 1: behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows and more. We

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Speaker 1: are your icebergs of intel, here to sink your ship

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Speaker 1: of apathy into a sea of sensationalized details. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jordan run Tog and I'm Alex Hegel. I can't

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Speaker 1: believe you just came up with that in thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're working on this episode for six weeks now,

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Speaker 1: so you know, merrinating. It's been merriating. Yeah, well, folks,

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Speaker 1: today we are bringing you the third and final installment

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Speaker 1: and our epic trilogy exploring the making of James Cameron's Titanic,

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Speaker 1: which turned twenty five years old a few weeks back.

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Speaker 1: The last episode explored what was basically the first VHS

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Speaker 1: of the original two tape release. In other words, all

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Speaker 1: the happy, romantic stuff. The King of the World old

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Speaker 1: scene will draw me like one of your French Girls scene,

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Speaker 1: the scene where Jack wins over the snobs at the

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Speaker 1: first class dinner party, the raucous Irish dance party in

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Speaker 1: third class, and of course car Sex, all in all

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Speaker 1: a good time. This episode is a bad time. We'll

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Speaker 1: explore all the stuff that went down in the second VHS.

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Speaker 1: That's when all hell breaks loose, the ship starts to sink,

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Speaker 1: and the movie goes from being a period romance to

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Speaker 1: being basically a high octane action movie. I have to admit,

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Speaker 1: as a little boy, I sometimes went straight to tape two.

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Speaker 1: Did you do that too? It was basically one of

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Speaker 1: the most hetero normative things I ever did. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the best part. It's just my enduring. My indelible

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Speaker 1: image of this movie is not the car sex, but

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Speaker 1: the god's eye shot with the guy on the propeller

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Speaker 1: says a lot about us. Every woman in my life says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what. First tape was the one that I

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Speaker 1: always watched first and preferred every guy in my life.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I hate it. I hate that I

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Speaker 1: sound like the lame night class being like Big Ship sinc.

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Speaker 1: I know, I feel, you know, I mean my I

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Speaker 1: always feel like I say this about many things in

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Speaker 1: my life. I feel in many ways like Bill Paxton

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Speaker 1: or Bill Paxson's character in this movie, where at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: you know he's just all about kind of like the

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Speaker 1: treasure and the sensationalism of it, and then by the

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Speaker 1: end of the movie he learns the heart of the story.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of was my relationship with Titanic because

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Speaker 1: a little kid, I was interested in the archaeology of it,

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Speaker 1: and in a way I don't know, in the same

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Speaker 1: way the kids are into like dinosaurs and trucks. It

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Speaker 1: was a big thing, you know what. I was like

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Speaker 1: five six years old when I got into the Titanic,

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Speaker 1: long before the movie came out, and it was just

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Speaker 1: hit some kind of like primal child thing in me.

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Speaker 1: And then I used to watch all these documentaries and

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Speaker 1: this movie all the time, and then I started revisiting

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Speaker 1: them in the last couple of years, like as someone

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Speaker 1: in their early mid thirties, and now it's like, WHOA.

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Speaker 1: I will choke up at certain points during this episode

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Speaker 1: when we talk about, you know, the old man not

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Speaker 1: being allowed a spot on the lifeboat and his wife

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Speaker 1: stays behind to be with him. Things like that just

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Speaker 1: hit totally differently when you have some some life under

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Speaker 1: your belt. Good Lord, So this is our first and

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Speaker 1: probably only, let's face it, three parts or that we're

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Speaker 1: ever going to tackle on here. I'm very much aware

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Speaker 1: that Titanic is very much my thing as opposed to yours.

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Speaker 1: Now you're holding up, has this changed your view of Titanic,

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Speaker 1: the film or the historical event in any way? You know?

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Speaker 1: Really what it's done for me is I I have

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Speaker 1: to hand it to James Cameron. Man, I'm still not

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Speaker 1: gonna watch Avatar, but it is really mind boggling. And

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Speaker 1: I knew some of it, but it really just the

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Speaker 1: mind fairly reels. You know, I'm not sure aside from Avatar,

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Speaker 1: like what else would really compare in terms of doing

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Speaker 1: this kind of work for a movie. I mean like

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Speaker 1: at a certain point it really becomes like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just a movie, right, But and it was not.

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Speaker 1: It was not for James Cameron. It wasn't. No. I

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Speaker 1: mean we'll get into a lot more of those kind

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Speaker 1: of stories in this episode, but it was like apocalypse now,

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Speaker 1: like not like making the movie, but the actual experience

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Speaker 1: of being in the jungle for James Cameron. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, we talked about this little in part one

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Speaker 1: about how like Cameron doesn't really have like the fervent

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Speaker 1: stand base that like you know, your p T A.

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Speaker 1: S or your your Wes Anderson's do. But I think

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Speaker 1: he's shaped modern filmmaking more than maybe more than anyone

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Speaker 1: except for like Spielberg, in terms of just like not

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Speaker 1: shaping like again, you know, camera techniques or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: just really redefining the scope of what these big pop

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Speaker 1: culture tent pieces can do. You know, Because he's not

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Speaker 1: making like, you know, ambitious, single take avant garde filmmaking.

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Speaker 1: No one's saying he's like Gadar or Cruissawa people have

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Speaker 1: claimed to have watched but never actually have. He is

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Speaker 1: literally affecting the landscape of twenty one century filmmaking. So well,

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Speaker 1: before we go any further, I would like to shout

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Speaker 1: out some younger history buffs that I think are carrying

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Speaker 1: on in the spirit of James Cameron's uh insane complete

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Speaker 1: a streak and obsessive attention to detail. Um Historians are

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Speaker 1: usually seen as these older, slightly tweety people, but this

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Speaker 1: team is in their twenties and they're attempting to digitally

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Speaker 1: recreate the Titanic in its entirety through painstaking research. This

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Speaker 1: project is called Honor and Glory, so named for the

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Speaker 1: figures that a door on the clock in the Grand staircase,

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Speaker 1: and the idea is that you can travel through the

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Speaker 1: entire ship. It's completely interactive. Every door, every drawer, every

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Speaker 1: item you see you can interact with. And these people

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Speaker 1: were the real deal. They've been working with the greatest

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Speaker 1: Titanic historians who have been on the case for like

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Speaker 1: fifty plus years, trying to get the correct coat hangers

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Speaker 1: or the correct color of a material in a room

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Speaker 1: where all we have are black and white photos, or

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Speaker 1: the correct design for a room where there are no photos.

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Speaker 1: It's really nuts. And have been working on this project

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Speaker 1: since twelve and they're still not done yet. So they've

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Speaker 1: beaten James Cameron for the, you know, the endurance test

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Speaker 1: version of this, but the demo versions that are available

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Speaker 1: for free on their website and the walkthroughs on their

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel are just phenomenal. I think they also have

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Speaker 1: vr oculus capability to It's just it's so wild, and

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Speaker 1: obviously I'm a giant nerd, so of course I think

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Speaker 1: what they're doing is extremely cool. But it gets me

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Speaker 1: excited in general about a younger generation of historians who

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Speaker 1: can basically harness the power of the Internet and use

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Speaker 1: it as the incredible database that it is. I mean

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Speaker 1: in the same way that you've got kids that are

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Speaker 1: half my age who have been exposed to ten times

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Speaker 1: more music than I ever have because of growing up

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Speaker 1: with Spotify. I think it's the same deal with young

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Speaker 1: historians and research. They can do more research in a

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Speaker 1: decade than some people do in their whole lives, and

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Speaker 1: then they can build on it from there and take

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Speaker 1: what we know about moments in history even further. So

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Speaker 1: if you're coming back to listen to us for even

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Speaker 1: more Titanic my new shaw, I think you might enjoy

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Speaker 1: these folks to their websites Honor and Glory, and they're

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Speaker 1: on YouTube as well, and they have another YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: called Titanic University where they have a wealth of cool,

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Speaker 1: granular videos that I love. Like it's like a fifteen

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Speaker 1: minute long one about how they heated the Titanic. That's

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Speaker 1: definitely better SEO. Honor and Glory feels like it's going

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Speaker 1: to take me to like a White Pride site. Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: See for me as a Titanic book, I knew exactly

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Speaker 1: what that meant, but I'm sure at a context, you're

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Speaker 1: right that seems like a DW. Griffin film. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: should be the next thing James Cameron remixed Avatar Birth

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Speaker 1: of a Nation. Uh, they're on Patreon as well. I

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Speaker 1: should say, if you want to kick him a couple

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Speaker 1: of bucks. Anyhow, without further ado, let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into the truly insane stories behind James cameron

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Speaker 1: sinking of the Titanic, or should I say repeated sinkings

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Speaker 1: and experience that very nearly killed Kate Winslett many times

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Speaker 1: over and cost the sanity of the crew. We'll also

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Speaker 1: get into the true life stories of heroism on the

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Speaker 1: real tie Tannic, bust submiths about the lifeboats, and tackle

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Speaker 1: the most enduring controversy associated with the Titanic production. Could

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Speaker 1: Jack have fit on that floating piece of wood paneling

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Speaker 1: alongside Rose. It's not a door. It's not a door, quinsay,

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Speaker 1: it's a door door paneling. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy

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Speaker 1: the third and final part of our trilogy, sharing everything

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Speaker 1: you didn't know about James Cameron's Titanic. I'd like to

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Speaker 1: begin this episode by telling you a fictional story about

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Speaker 1: another ship that sank in the North Atlantic. This British

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Speaker 1: ship struck an iceberg on her starboard or right side

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Speaker 1: during the month of April and sank roughly four into

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Speaker 1: miles off the coast of Newfoundland, all of which was

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Speaker 1: the case for a Titanic. There was a tremendous death

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Speaker 1: toll due the fact that there were enough lifeboats aboard

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Speaker 1: for all passengers. This ship was roughly the same gargantean

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Speaker 1: size as the Titanic and travel at a similar speed,

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Speaker 1: and even boasted similar safety features that were supposed to

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Speaker 1: have rendered her indestructible and dare I say even unsinkable.

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Speaker 1: The ship's name was the titan Now you're probably thinking

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Speaker 1: of this fictional story is the work of a lazy

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Speaker 1: author who just cribbed the Titanic story for their own work.

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Speaker 1: But this is where it gets really weird. This story

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Speaker 1: was published in eighteen, fourteen years before the sinking of

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Speaker 1: the Titanic. It's taken from a novella called Futility the

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Speaker 1: Wreck of the titan by Morgan Robertson, and after the

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Speaker 1: Titanic disaster, many accused Robertson of having clairvoyant black magic powers.

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Speaker 1: Uh He denied this, saying instead that he was simply

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Speaker 1: very knowledgeable about ship building trends. Thanks to family members

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Speaker 1: who worked on luxury liners. But still there are forty

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Speaker 1: one point one million square miles of Atlantic Ocean, and

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Speaker 1: he chose roughly the same spot where the Titanic went down.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there are many reasons why a ship

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Speaker 1: could sink besides an iceberg, but the ship struck in Iceberg.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the name titan Titanic kind of makes

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Speaker 1: you think fate priory. I don't know. Roberts said also

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Speaker 1: claims to invented the periscope, which I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: include because that sounds like something Dr Evil would say

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Speaker 1: during that speech describing his father. My father would make

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Speaker 1: outrageous claims like he invented the periscope. Anyway, Greek. What

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Speaker 1: a great coda to that. Well, now let us move

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Speaker 1: from the spooky to the terrifying. The sinking scenes in

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Speaker 1: Titanic were the most challenging scenes to capture. It was

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Speaker 1: not only technically complex, but also the most hazardous for

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Speaker 1: the crew. During these moments, James Cameron transformed into the

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Speaker 1: worst version of himself. And this is a man who

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Speaker 1: almost killed someone already in the water on the set

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Speaker 1: of the Abyss For legal reasons. For legal reasons. We

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Speaker 1: have to say James James Cameron almost killed many people. Yea,

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Speaker 1: this is so bizarre to me. They had a nickname

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Speaker 1: for him when he turned into the bad Jim, Um

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Speaker 1: Midge or meet me. I don't know what Jim spelled backwards,

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Speaker 1: like evil spock, like with the goatee. Ridiculous um profile

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times offered this memorable description of Midge.

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Speaker 1: Cameron became known as an uncompromising, hard charging perfectionist and

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Speaker 1: three hundred decibel screamer, a modern day Captain Bligh with

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Speaker 1: a megaphone and walkie talkie swooping down into people's faces

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Speaker 1: on a one hundred and sixty two foot crane. That's

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Speaker 1: a creative it. I love that realistically, Jim Jim, he

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Speaker 1: probably brought up his blood pressure. James Cameron was probably

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Speaker 1: uh in an apoplectic rage for like of the shoot.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, not only did he yell at people

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Speaker 1: all the time, he maybe got a little physical with

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Speaker 1: a couple of crew members. There was eighty hour six

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Speaker 1: day work weeks. One crew member described the environment as

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Speaker 1: the closest thing to slavery I've ever laid my eyes on. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's just the second dubious reference to slavery in this trilogy.

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Speaker 1: Some of the crew claimed that they worked upwards of

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Speaker 1: ten consecutive hours without a break. Some actors got kidney

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Speaker 1: infections after being submerged in the pool for so long. UM.

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Speaker 1: Members of the crew have also talked about working thirteen

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Speaker 1: days straight before Christmas, to the point where these stunt

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Speaker 1: workers were actually falling asleep. They were falling asleep during

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Speaker 1: their safety briefings to go over the scene where the

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Speaker 1: Grand staircase is flooded. Um, you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: falling sleep during that particular safety briefing. Cameron's a longtime editor,

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Speaker 1: Mark Goldblatt said of him, you don't just join one

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Speaker 1: of his films, you sign on for a tour of duty.

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Speaker 1: Cameron echoed the sentiment, saying filmmaking is a war, a

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Speaker 1: great battle between business and aesthetics. Cameron took to wearing

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Speaker 1: a T shirt with the slogan that seemed to justify

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Speaker 1: this punishing schedule. Time means nothing in the face of creativity.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a line of some of his dialogue. The

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Speaker 1: crew countered by having T shirts made, We've had some

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Speaker 1: of their favorite on set quotes from Jim or his associates.

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Speaker 1: Jim is a hands on director, and I have the

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Speaker 1: bruises to prove it. No animals were hurt during the

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Speaker 1: making of this film, but the actors were tossed around

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Speaker 1: like styrophone cups. Don't get creative. I hate that waiting

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Speaker 1: on lipstick. I say, we just tattooed their lips. It's

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Speaker 1: a timing thing. I don't care if it has any

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Speaker 1: organic emotional reality or not. That was a favorite. That's

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Speaker 1: a good one. You either shoot it my way or

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Speaker 1: you do another movie. Bill Paxton, who it should be noted,

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Speaker 1: was a dear friend of James Cameron's, admitted there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of disgruntled people on the set. Jim is

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Speaker 1: not one of those guys who has the time to

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Speaker 1: win hearts and minds, which is probably why someone spiked

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Speaker 1: his chowder with PCP. James Cameron yelled so much that

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Speaker 1: script supervisor Shelley Crawford was quoted as telling Premier magazine,

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Speaker 1: I can't even tell the difference between yelling and not

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Speaker 1: yelling anymore. It's just what does he want and what

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Speaker 1: do we have to do to get it done. The

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Speaker 1: reporter for Premier, John H. Richardson, who called his piece

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Speaker 1: Inside the Punishing Dictatorship that was James Cameron's Titanic set,

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Speaker 1: observed an incident where a cable stopped working. He said,

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Speaker 1: Cameron yelps, all right, this is major. He turns to

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Speaker 1: an actor, Can I have your gun please? The actor

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Speaker 1: hands over a stunt gun. Jim points it at the

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Speaker 1: cable tech which kneecap. Do you wanted in? He asked. Granted,

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Speaker 1: James Cameron was joking, but this was in front of

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Speaker 1: a reporter, which just gives you some idea of what

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Speaker 1: it was like when press weren't around. His behavior admittedly

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Speaker 1: improved when reporters were present, which led the crew to

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Speaker 1: joke or you know, joke in quotes about hiring an

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Speaker 1: extra and having them around at all times and just

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Speaker 1: telling James Cameron that it was a reporter. My personal

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Speaker 1: favorite Midge moment occurred when Cameron invited one of the

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Speaker 1: pre eminent Titanic historians, a guy by the name of

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Speaker 1: Don Lynch, to serve as a historical consultant on the

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Speaker 1: set and during the chaotic sinking scenes where one of

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Speaker 1: the lifeboats is nearly lowered into another boat that's already

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Speaker 1: in the water. It's like, you know, really scary. It's

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Speaker 1: threatening to crush the people that are inside in the

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Speaker 1: lower one. That really happens. But the historian gets on

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Speaker 1: his walkie talkie very politely tells James Cameron, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: that wasn't how what happened. The lifeboat wasn't that close

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Speaker 1: to crushing people in the water. The people in the

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Speaker 1: lower boat, they could stand up and touch the hull

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Speaker 1: of the boat, but not much lower than that. Cameron

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Speaker 1: just dismissively snaps, thanks for your opinion. Now I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make it exciting. This is the one of the world's

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Speaker 1: leading Titanic historians, and James Cameron's like nerd nerdle er.

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Speaker 1: And yet in spite of themselves, and yet, and yet

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Speaker 1: I've grown accustomed to the sound of his shrieking in

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Speaker 1: my ear. Uh. People found themselves, Uh, you know, fond

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Speaker 1: of him, not just limited to Bill Paxton, who was

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Speaker 1: probably spent more time in close, didn't He said he

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Speaker 1: was on the sub with him, right, He was on

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Speaker 1: the sub not while filming Titanic, but when James Caeron

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Speaker 1: was making Goes to the Abyss a documentary, and in

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Speaker 1: like two thousand one two two. Actually, I think here's

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Speaker 1: a weird one act play. I believe James Cameron and

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Speaker 1: Bill Paxson. We're diving on Titanic on September eleven. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I may be embellishing that. I hope you're not, I know.

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Speaker 1: To his credit, Cameron did apologize for his outbursts on occasion.

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Speaker 1: One of his assistant directors told The l A Times

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Speaker 1: about a time when one of the extras complained about

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Speaker 1: being fed raw chicken by the film's caterers, possibly dusted

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Speaker 1: with PCP, and Cameron promised them he'd personally look into it,

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Speaker 1: and he looked into it. The first ad said, well,

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Speaker 1: he personally screamed it seven of us and we had

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Speaker 1: to look into it. The script supervisor, who shared several

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Speaker 1: of the horror stories we recounted earlier, told Premier the

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Speaker 1: other day when they were doing the funnel drop scene,

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Speaker 1: just the scene in one of the smoke stacks collapses,

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Speaker 1: Jim says, what do we have to do to get

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Speaker 1: this right? Sacrifice another chicken. The guy goes, how do

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Speaker 1: you not like that? I mean? Yeah. A favorite phrase

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Speaker 1: of Karen's is any idiot could figure this out? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Justifying his problem solving. Um, you know the Stephen Lange

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Speaker 1: quote that the only things he can't do on set

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Speaker 1: our act and cater he wanted to do everything else.

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Speaker 1: He would just just make up. He would tweak blood spatters. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Script supervisor Shelly Crawford wonder why does he do it?

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Speaker 1: Why does everything have to be perfect? Why does the

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Speaker 1: wave have to be four ft and not two ft?

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Speaker 1: Why does the amplitude have to be exact? How does

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Speaker 1: he decide? How does he questions for our time? The

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Speaker 1: shoot dragged on longer than expected, perhaps obviously in hindsight.

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Speaker 1: The filming schedule was supposed to be a hundred thirty

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Speaker 1: five days grew to a hundred and sixty. James Cameron

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Speaker 1: didn't drink caffeine because it's supposedly made him meaner, which

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Speaker 1: can you imagine? Uh? So he coped with his workload

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Speaker 1: by taking Vitamin beat twelve supplements and drinking wheat grass.

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Speaker 1: But other members of the cast and crew didn't cope

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Speaker 1: quite so easily. Kate Winslet wrote in her production diary,

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Speaker 1: which was later published in Vogue, when I left the shoot,

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Speaker 1: they were supposed to wrap on February, but now it's

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Speaker 1: March fourteen, and they're still shooting. They've been shooting nights

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Speaker 1: for three months, rapping long after dawn most mornings, seven

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Speaker 1: days a week for weeks, with two hundred or three

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Speaker 1: hundred extras and dozens of stunt people and water and

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Speaker 1: the cold air blowing off the ocean. People are tense.

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Speaker 1: They want to go home. Hernando the driver says, two

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Speaker 1: security guards got into a fight. It's just like it,

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Speaker 1: just if you overlay the ken Burns Civil War, like

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Speaker 1: sad little music. It's like a lovely It's like ill

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Speaker 1: faded expedition to the North Pole, or some diaries in

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Speaker 1: the trenches or something. We're out of food. Hernando the

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Speaker 1: driver says, two security guards got into a fight. Throughout

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Speaker 1: the production, there were rumors of on set injuries and

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Speaker 1: accidents that harkened back to the lawless days of Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: when human life was just part of the cost of

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Speaker 1: that tinseltown glamour. A Fox spokesman acknowledged eight or nine accidents.

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Speaker 1: Those were just the ones that were acknowledged. Some reports

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Speaker 1: cited more. One paramedic on the set um, presumably of

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Speaker 1: a fleet of them called Premiere that, in addition to

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Speaker 1: run of the mayoral respiratory infections, flus, fevers, stomach problems, diarrhea.

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Speaker 1: He treated one broken ankle, some fractured ribs. What is

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Speaker 1: Dutch elbow? Is that like tennis elbow? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It might be just like ramming it into something. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Head injuries and a lot of bouts of hypothermia.

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Speaker 1: There were also cases of extreme fatigue, with reports of

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Speaker 1: crew members sleeping on their feet like horses and leaning

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Speaker 1: against walls. Put An investigation by the Screen Actors Guild

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Speaker 1: did not find any violations. Come on, SAG, get your together.

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Speaker 1: A further investigation by Time magazine revealed something even more disturbing.

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Speaker 1: Though the American members were chauffeured to and from their hotels,

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Speaker 1: local workers on the Mexican set were not. There was

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Speaker 1: a case where local woman was injured in a car

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Speaker 1: crash after working until three am as a script supervisor.

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Speaker 1: These local workers were reportedly required to put in twelve

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Speaker 1: hour days. You will remember they chose to build the

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Speaker 1: Titanic set in Mexico because there were no labor unions there. Honestly, Man,

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Speaker 1: this makes his insistence on doing the VFX and Avatar

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Speaker 1: so much clearer because one of the big issues with

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Speaker 1: like Marvel and VFX heavy stuff is that VFX gigs

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Speaker 1: are not union wardrobe, makeup set. All of those are

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Speaker 1: union jobs. All of those like fex heavy Marvel movies,

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Speaker 1: where like these anonymous people are writing into Empire and

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Speaker 1: Variety saying like we've been in a bunker for seven days,

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Speaker 1: like retouching. You know, Uh, Captain America's asked like, those

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Speaker 1: are not union gigs. So suddenly it makes sense to

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Speaker 1: me that James Cameron spent two decades developing VFX technology

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Speaker 1: that would enable him to skirt the entire human element

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Speaker 1: of filmmaking. Anyway, there is a memo from a construction

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Speaker 1: coordinator complaining that workers were fed only bread and milk

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Speaker 1: in the morning as their meal for the day, and

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Speaker 1: that was rolled back at one point. This memo, obtained

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Speaker 1: by Time magazine, right in part, it is deplorable that

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Speaker 1: we have witnessed our workers digging through the trash to

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Speaker 1: retrieve fruit and other foods to try and get something

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Speaker 1: to eat. It's hard to believe that this company has

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Speaker 1: stooped so low to reduce costs. One of the Cameron's

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Speaker 1: production partners, John Landau, not that one, not Bruce Springsteen's manager. No,

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Speaker 1: for legal reasons. Would that be amazing though it was?

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Speaker 1: I checked, believe me. Uh. He responded to this allegation

390
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Speaker 1: by saying that the Mexican workers on the film were

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Speaker 1: treated far better than the norm in their country for

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Speaker 1: these shoots. So cool man, I guess. Oh. And final

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Speaker 1: one person died off the set in a drunk driving accident,

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Speaker 1: so I know you can't really lay that at the

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Speaker 1: feet of of of Jim. So this is all bad. Generally,

396
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Speaker 1: the crew got the full brounth of James Cameron's Midge character,

397
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Speaker 1: but Kate Winslet also got it more than her fair share, apparently.

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Speaker 1: I've seen reports that James Cameron occasionally referred to her

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Speaker 1: as Kate weighs a lot instead of Kate Winslet Wolf. Yeah.

400
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Speaker 1: I think that was in the Rolling Stone profile of her.

401
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Speaker 1: In um of all the starring cast, it's safe to

402
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Speaker 1: say that Kate had the worst time overall, and she

403
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Speaker 1: admitted that there were times when she was quote genuinely

404
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Speaker 1: frightened of Cameron just a quick misery list rundown, She

405
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: caught pneumonia, almost drowned several times, chipped a bone in

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Speaker 1: her elbow and got so banked up that the makeup

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Speaker 1: artist used her actual bruises as a photo reference to

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Speaker 1: maintain continuity in the film. She told The l a.

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Speaker 1: T Times that quote, she looked like a battered wife,

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Speaker 1: end quote. She said in retrospect that she found it

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Speaker 1: weird that no one thought to ask her whether she

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Speaker 1: could swim during the audition. Processed Cameron's response to this,

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Speaker 1: I have to let actors who are adults take a

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Speaker 1: certain responsibility for their own preparation, which kind of fair,

415
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: I guess, but still obviously Kate was subjected to the

416
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Speaker 1: same grueling days we spoke about with the crew. She

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Speaker 1: told The l. A. Times that her first day on

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Speaker 1: the set started at five am and went until one

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Speaker 1: am the following day. Nothing could have prepared me for it,

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Speaker 1: she said. There are quite a few twenty hour days,

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Speaker 1: and two thirds of it was night shooting because the

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Speaker 1: Titanic sank at night. It was every man for himself

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Speaker 1: on the set. You had to ensure that you snatch

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Speaker 1: some sleep during the day with a black eyemask on.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you'd find yourself having lunch at two am or

426
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: breakfast at four pm. It was very disorienting. Exertrom reproduction diary,

427
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: which we talked about earlier, were published in Vogue magazine,

428
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: are positively tragic. She speaks of having to spend an

429
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: hour and a half before Betty each night getting her

430
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: hair put into pin curl with the help of a

431
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: hair stylist. She writes, good thing we were both too

432
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: tired to chat, because half the time I'm asleep in

433
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: the chair. On screen, I have luscious red curls. Off screen,

434
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: I look like a bad lady with a head scarf

435
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: tied in a bow at the front, so attractive. I

436
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: think I've put on weight. I feel heavy, tired, physically swollen,

437
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: and so lonely without my family. On February six, she writes,

438
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: my feet are pulsating because they were so trampled on

439
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: by all the steerage extras, third class extras, like a

440
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: herd of elephants that reduced all my toes on my

441
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: left foot to a pulpy mess in one take. And

442
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: on February six, she says I was wrapped early because

443
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: I'd hurt my arm I fell during a take, and

444
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: since it was already sprained from something else this week,

445
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: it just made it worse. I'm exhausted and ache like hell,

446
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm bruised and battered from head to foot. Just realized

447
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: that this is the first time in ages that I'm

448
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: going to sleep in the dark. It's night exclamation mark.

449
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: And to cap it off, she told South Coast Today,

450
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: for the first time in my life on a film set,

451
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: I was thinking I wish I wasn't here. Some days

452
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: I'd wake up and think, please God, let me die.

453
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: I can only imagine that was delivered with a laugh.

454
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: Laughter mind James Cameron something pokes his head in No. However,

455
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: like many other members of the crew, Kate Winslet praise

456
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: James Camera's work, ethic, and commitment, admitting that as hard

457
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: as Cameron pushed her, he pushed himself even harder. As

458
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: she told the only times by the end that was

459
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: existing on about four hours of sleep a day, but

460
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: Jim was existing on three. In addition to the punishing hours,

461
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: there was also the minor matter of hypothermia. For all

462
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: the scenes shot inside the sinking ship, the crew and

463
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: most of the cast were able to wear wet suits,

464
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: but this was impossible for Kate because of her costume,

465
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: which was just a thin chiffon dress. Costume designer Deborah

466
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: Lynne Scott had twenty four of these dresses made due

467
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: to the beating that they took after hours of being

468
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: submerged in seawater, and this water was cold, pumped in

469
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: straight from the ocean. Kate's gasp as she steps into

470
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: the water for the first time after rescuing Leo from

471
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: being handcuffed and the Master at Arms office that's not acting.

472
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: The cup that she wore did not offer much warmth either,

473
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: hence hypothermia. Interestingly, the coat was a size eight, while

474
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: the rest of her gowns were size four. They wanted

475
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: it to be bigger on her an attempt to make

476
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: her look smaller and more vulnerable during the sinking scenes.

477
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: They did a similar trick in the engine room by

478
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: hiring shorter stuntmen. I think five feet was the cut off,

479
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: and that was just all done in an effort to

480
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: make the engine room look bigger, which I appreciate. It's

481
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: funny that the random ways that they would try to

482
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: cut costs for all the you know, the dining room scenes.

483
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: They got pounds of bluga caviare we engraved with the

484
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: white star Line logo on individual forts uh, yeah, and yeah.

485
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet hated this costume not only because it offered

486
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: her zero warmth, but also because the long flowing train

487
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: kept getting caught on stuff, which is not good when

488
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: your whole role is running through a rapidly flooding corridor.

489
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: She wrote her production diary, my dress is driving me

490
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 1: bloody bonkers. I'm in the same dress till the end

491
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: of the film. It's layers and layers of chiffon, and

492
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: layers and layers of pain in the arts. It's supposed

493
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: to trail behind me in the water like a long snail,

494
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: but instead of keeps wrapping itself around my legs and

495
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: tripping me up in the middle of shots, which is

496
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: driving me mad. And because of this pain in the

497
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: arts costume, Kate very nearly drowned while filming the sinking

498
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: scenes inside the ship. It occurred while shooting the scene

499
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: where Kate and Leo are trying to escape in the

500
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: white hallway that rapidly fills up with water, only to

501
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: find their path blocked by a locked gate. In the film,

502
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: they open it just in time, but Kate's coat got

503
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: caught on the gate during one of the takes pinning

504
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: her underwater. She explained, I had a sort of shimmy

505
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: out of the coat to get free. I had no

506
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: breath left. I thought i'd burst, and Jim just said, okay,

507
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: let's go end. That was his attitude. I didn't want

508
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: to be a whim, so I didn't complain. Cameron later

509
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: defended himself by saying, I knew Kate was pretty stoic.

510
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: She never expressed to me that she didn't want to continue.

511
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: It didn't come to me until about ten minutes later

512
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: that she was actually really shaken. It would not be

513
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: unusual for Kate after a really big emotional scene to

514
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: go and cry for an hour, just as part of

515
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: the process. Is that part of the process. In this scene,

516
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: she was never in physical danger, he continued, but she

517
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: perceived that she was. If you have a spill on

518
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: a horse, you just get right back on the horse.

519
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: This was a close up shot and not a situation

520
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: where she could be doubled. If I had to do

521
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: this all over again, I would probably do the same thing,

522
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: he said. I learned nothing. You'd be forgiven for wondering

523
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: if Kate Winslet hates, or at least hated James Cameron

524
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: for all this, and as we mentioned, she was pretty

525
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: vocal about what a miserable experience the movie was. When

526
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: speaking to the press, she even slammed him in the

527
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: La Times about the tremendous cost of the movie, saying,

528
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: I know we don't even think about things like budgets,

529
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: but everyone on set was talking about it. I believe

530
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: in the end it was an excess of a hundred

531
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: and sixty million, actually two hundred million. It makes you think,

532
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: doesn't it. How many houses could you build for that money?

533
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: How many people could you feed? Who? And then she

534
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: came for Jim personally. Soon after the release of Titanic.

535
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: She told The Guardian, Jim's a nice guy, but the

536
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: problem was that his vision for the film was as

537
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: clear as it was. He has a temper like you

538
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe. As it was, the actors got off lightly.

539
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: I think Jim knew he couldn't shout at us the

540
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: way he did to his crew because the performances would

541
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: be no good. You'd have to pay me a lot

542
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: of money to work with Jim again. James Cameron, who

543
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: presumably was sleeping on a bed of money following the

544
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: worldwide successive Titanic didn't let the snarky comments in the

545
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: press from his leading lady bother him. He said that

546
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: Kate was quote just letting off steam after the pressure

547
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: of shouldering a two hundred million dollar production. He added,

548
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: Kate would look out and see the small city with

549
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: these thousands of people and all this stuff happening, and

550
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: she'd know that what it all boiled down to was

551
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: what was going on in her eyes, which is sort

552
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: of an uncharacteristically generous read on the situation from Jim Cameron.

553
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: Uh and surprise, surprise, Kate Winslett did indeed get paid

554
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: a lot of money to appear in James Cameron's Avatar

555
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: to the Way of Water. Considering it's obviously a water

556
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: based production, her salary must have been substantial. Kate Winslet

557
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: and fellow actors took free diving lessons as part of

558
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: their preparation for the production, and Kate trained to the

559
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: point where she could hold her breath for an astonishing

560
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: seven minutes and fifteen seconds. I don't understand how that's possible.

561
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: She's destroyed Tom Cruise's previous record for on screen breath holding,

562
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: which was at six minutes from mission impossible rogue nation.

563
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: I I can't even begin to consider how that's done. Wow.

564
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: Kate also has nice things to say about Jim Cameron

565
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,239
Speaker 1: these days. She told the Hollywood Reporter, it was so

566
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: wonderful to work with Jim again. Time has changed him.

567
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: Jim has become a father a few times over. It's

568
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: a calmer person, chilled. You can just feel him enjoying

569
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: it more this time. So that's that's all nice. But

570
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: back to Titanic. Leo meanwhile remain kind of a oh

571
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: he's a little that's not mince words, a little a

572
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: little stinker. He was, uh we talked about this in

573
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: the first episode, but um yeah. Despite being an accomplished

574
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: scuba diver, Leo really hated being in cold water. I know,

575
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: I know, well, this line really kills me. He admitted.

576
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: The water stuff was really hard because I'm very temperature sensitive.

577
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: Can you imagine how secure you must be to describe

578
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: yourself as temperature sensitive and not expect to be torn apart?

579
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: James Cameron jokingly called him a Persian cat, which is

580
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: a tremendous diss. Kate helped him get used to the

581
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: temperature for a few minutes prior to each scene. Uh,

582
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: and he later said the Titanic made a man out

583
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: of me. Uh. They would apparently warm up after they

584
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: would do these scenes by having the crew pour buckets

585
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: of warm water over them. But before we move on,

586
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: let's get to some lightning round bullet point details from

587
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: the sinking scenes. In the shot where Kate Winslet breaks

588
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: Jack's handcuffs with an axe, if you pause it just

589
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: the right moment, you'll see that she actually hits his

590
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: hand directly. Thankfully, the axes made of rubber and EA

591
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: glided viewers can actually see it. Bend, I have an

592
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: asset in factual error. Can I that the mastered arms

593
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: office where Jack is handcuffed was actually an inside cabin

594
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: and had no porthole? Thank you? I am just impressed

595
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: Cameron missed that. Yeah, but but they do have that

596
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: great shot of of the porthole, like starting to be

597
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: submerged under water out of it. Oh yeah, I'm surprised

598
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: he wasn't. Like Kate. This is the real fire acts

599
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: will be using in this scene. Don't miss make it.

600
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: Let's go again. Leonardo's holding a bleeding stump. It sounds

601
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: like one more time. Um, you remember the scene where

602
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: Jack and Rose are running in slow motion down the

603
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: White Hallway which was known as Scotland Road, being chased

604
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: by the water. Those are stunt doubles doing the running,

605
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: to which Kate and Leo's faces were digitally composited. Uh.

606
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: Even especially in four K Baby, you'll notice that the

607
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: water that floods the ship is fairly clear, which is

608
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: incorrect according to NASA. Of all people, ocean water can

609
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: appear murky and dark due to the marine life that

610
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: it contains, so in real life, the rush of sea

611
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: water would have been a terrifying brown wave like Pooh Water.

612
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: Friend of the Pod. It never gets old. Uh. And finally,

613
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: the scene where Jack and his Irish friend Tommy Ryan

614
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: pick up a bench in third class and smash open

615
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: a gate resulted in more injuries. What is do we

616
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: have a running tally of how many injury web worry

617
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: into like two dozen at this point? Right? Well, Leo

618
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: threw out his precious little shoulder, uh, and Barry caught

619
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: himself in the chin with the bench again, Jim, They

620
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: shot the watch shot for that scene and Cameron goes cut,

621
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: all right, let's go again. But wait, this is cute.

622
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: I like this story though, well, a child playing one

623
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: of the extras got really upset because he thought he'd

624
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: screwed up and that was why they had to do

625
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: it again. And everyone started to laugh, and James Cameron

626
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: goes over and starts to talk to this little kid

627
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: and he takes him aside, and he's like, all right,

628
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this and then we're gonna do this again.

629
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: Do you think you can do it like three times?

630
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: Because he didn't know that they had to do like

631
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: wide shots and then close ups and everything, and he

632
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: just thought like he had screwed up. And I just

633
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: thought that it was really nice take the time. I

634
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: mean that little like taking the kids aside probably costs

635
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: like two point three million, but uh, but still that

636
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: child would later grow up to be Sam Worthington. I'd

637
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: like to take a moment to discuss kind of a

638
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: bummer point of fact. In nearly all dramatizations of the

639
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: Titanic story, there's inevitably a scene that shows the third

640
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: class passengers locked behind gates, trapped down below, and the

641
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: bowels of the ship as it sinks, kept from the

642
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: lifeboats in favor of the first and second class passengers.

643
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: It's certainly a powerful visual that illustrates the stark disparity

644
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: between the socioeconomic classes on the Titanic, but it's not

645
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: how it went down in real life. Numerous historians have

646
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: commented on this. Well, there were gates. They existed not

647
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: to keep the poorer passengers down below in the event

648
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: of an emergency, but it was as part of a

649
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: U s immigration law and to prevent the spread of disease.

650
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: In other words, the immigrants had to be separated until

651
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: they could be brought to Ellis Island for of checks

652
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: and processing. Uh. This whole thing actually throws a real

653
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: ranch into the plot of the movie about a first

654
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: class passenger having a relationship with third class passenger. Uh.

655
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: In the book Real Versus Real, How Hollywood Turns Fact

656
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: into Fiction, author Frank Sinello quotes an anonymous story and

657
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: who explains that on the actual Titanic quote the classes

658
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: were strictly segregated. Leonardo DiCaprio wouldn't have been allowed anywhere

659
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: near Kate Winslett. So all this to say, the gates

660
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: were there, and some of them may have been closed

661
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: or even locked in the initial confusion after the ship

662
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: struck the Iceberg, but they were open very quickly. Historian

663
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: and author Tim Malton told the BBC Radio Times that

664
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: the idea that the third class passengers were locked below

665
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: deck is quote total rubbish. As soon as the order

666
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: was given to lower the lifeboats, the order was given

667
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: to open all the gates, and there was no discrimination

668
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: on the boat deck between first class or third even

669
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: back in twelve maritime law front of the pod maritime

670
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: law dictated that all passengers have access to the upper

671
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: decks at all times. The third class general room had

672
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: a door that opened directly out into what was known

673
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: as the well deck, so in truth there were no

674
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: physical barriers for third class passengers to get to the

675
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: boat deck and ultimately to the lifeboats. A man named

676
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: Daniel Buckley was one of a handful of third class

677
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: passengers who made it to a boat, and according to testimony,

678
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: he gave it one of the official inquiries the gate

679
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: leading up from the steerage or third class area was

680
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: not locked, and those who've been sleeping below had, according

681
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: to him, as much a chance as anyone else to

682
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: make it to the lifeboats. So this leads to the

683
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: devastating question why did only of third class passengers, or

684
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: a hundred seventy eight out of seven hundred and six

685
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: survived the sinking, while of first class survived and of

686
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: second class survived. I wasn't due to any malicious intent

687
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: by the crew members on board, but a number of

688
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: other factors, and we'll go over some of them now.

689
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: Though they had access to the upper boat deck, third

690
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: class passengers and not have direct access to lifeboats, which

691
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: were kept in the first and second class are ways

692
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: of the ship. To get there, they would need to

693
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,479
Speaker 1: know their way around parts of the ship where they'd

694
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: never been. There was a maze of passageways and corridors.

695
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: Even on the set for the third class area on

696
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: the Titanic production, cast and crew regularly got lost. It

697
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: would sometimes take them upwards of two hours to come

698
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: back from a lunch break because no one could find

699
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: their way. So now imagine navigating that in the middle

700
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: of us sinking in the middle of the night with

701
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: limited lighting. Many third class passengers just had no idea

702
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: how to reach the boats, and by the time they did,

703
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: they were gone because the first and second class passengers

704
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: had much easier and quicker access to them. Adding to

705
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: the confusion, many of the third class passengers didn't speak

706
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: English and couldn't interpret what was going on or what

707
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: they needed to do or where they needed to go.

708
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: And also, many passengers and third class initially didn't want

709
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: to abandon the ship at first, purely because they didn't

710
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: realize that the Titanic was in any sort of mortal danger,

711
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: at least until it was far too late. We'll touch

712
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: on this more later, but this was a phenomenon that

713
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: spread across all classes. People felt that staying on the big, warm,

714
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: well lit, seemingly strong Titanic was much safer than taking

715
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: their chances and what was essentially a rowboat at midnight

716
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: in the middle of the freezing North Atlantic. Adding to

717
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: the reluctance to leave the ship was the fact that

718
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: many of these people were traveling with all the worldly

719
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: possessions because they were going to go start a new

720
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: life in America. As such, they were wary of leaving

721
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: their luggage because it was all they had. And you

722
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: also need to take into account the family size and

723
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: first and second class. Most of the folks traveling were

724
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: wealthy individuals or couples, but third class were full families

725
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: because again, many of them were repatriating Uh. Generally lower

726
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: class families had more children because many factories meant more labor. Uh.

727
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: It must be said Irish Catholics. A lot of the

728
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: third class passengers were Irish immigrants. Irish Catholics had big families. Uh.

729
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: Took with your priest. I've heard boys of thirteen or

730
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: fourteen were considered men in the eyes of sailors loading

731
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: the lifeboats and not let aboard. And as a result,

732
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: many mothers didn't want to leave their sons behind and

733
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: split up the family, so they opted to stay behind

734
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: grim and finally, perhaps the most insidious reason, I call

735
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: it the Aikman excuse. Most third class passengers were used

736
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: to following orders from their superiors. Remember the scene in

737
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: Titanic when the mother tells her children that they were

738
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: waiting their turn while the first and second class passengers

739
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: were getting loaded up. That was much closer to reality

740
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: than any of the alleged locked gates. It was different

741
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: arrow as a time when the crew members would say

742
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: women and children first into the lifeboats, and hundreds of

743
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: men would step back voluntarily and face almost certain death.

744
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: There was a higher premium put on obedience at the time,

745
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: so the third class passengers gathered in public rooms waiting

746
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: for proper instructions from the crew, which for the most part,

747
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: really never came. The crew were so preoccupied with the

748
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: chaos that the third class passengers were essentially forgotten. Historian

749
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: Don Lynch said that the third class were essentially neglected

750
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: to death was his phrase, and it's true. Survivors reported

751
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: seeing passengers in the third class general room awaiting the end,

752
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: including a Swedish man who apparently refused a life belt

753
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: as he claimed to be quote too old to fight

754
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: the Atlantic's waves. And there was also the site of

755
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: an English lady sitting and playing the piano with her

756
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: child on her knee, with no visible intention of trying

757
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: to save herself and a child. This is so grim.

758
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the lifeboats themselves for a moment um.

759
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: There's a scene in the movie where Rose and her

760
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: entourage are getting a tour of the upper decks the

761
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: Titanic by the ship's builder, Thomas Andrews, played by Victor Garber.

762
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: He implies that he pushed for more lifeboats to be added,

763
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: but was overruled. It's a huge part of the Titanic

764
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: legend that Titanic was sailing without enough lifeboats because they

765
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: wanted unspoiled boat deck views for their rich passengers, and

766
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: the ship was unsinkable, supposedly so that they would not

767
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: need them anyway. These days, it seems criminal that ship

768
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: would set, say, without lifeboat space for all the passengers

769
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: and crew, and so clearly the owners of the Titanic

770
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: had committed some kind of act of gross negligence right, well,

771
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: not strictly. In fact, the Titanic was sailing with more

772
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: than the legal requirement of lifeboats at the time, and

773
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: this is weird because the ship had twenty lifeboats in

774
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: total that could accommodate eleven d seventy eight people, or

775
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: a little over half of the twenty three on board

776
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: the night it sank, or about a third of its

777
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: maximum capacity of passengers and crew. But you have to

778
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: understand that at the time the Titanic was built, the

779
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: safety laws had been put in place at the end

780
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century. British Board of Trade regulations for

781
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: lifeboats were based on the ship's gross tonnage or weight,

782
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: not the number of passengers that it was carrying. So

783
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: when the law was written, they essentially said all ships

784
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: over ten thousand gross tons should have sixteen lifeboats because

785
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: that was the size of the biggest ships at the time.

786
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: This law did not involve to keep pace with the

787
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: new superliners. So Titanic had a gross tonnage of forty

788
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: six thousand tons, so by law she was only required

789
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: to have sixteen lifeboats that could safely hold a thousand

790
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: and sixty people, and she had actually four extra boats

791
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: for uh So. In other words, I mean these laws

792
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: were the biggest ships that the lawmakers could conceive of

793
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: were ten thousand tons at the turns of the nineteenth

794
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: century and Titanic was four and a half times that big. Yes,

795
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is the builders hadn't really

796
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: even conceived of a situation which the entire ship would

797
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: be evacuated. At one time. Lifeboats were designed to shuttle

798
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: passengers to rescue ships. Yeah, I mean, I'm no expert

799
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: on arcane centuries old maritime safety laws, but I believe

800
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: that ships built was certain kinds of safety features were

801
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: rewarded by being required to carry a fewer boats, simply

802
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: because the leaf was that they wouldn't be needed. These

803
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: safety features that they added would prevent or at least

804
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: slow any sinking, and the newly established shipping lanes in

805
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: the North Atlantic meant that vessels would be a limited

806
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: distance away, something like sixty miles. I mean, it's like

807
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: your car breaking down on a very crowded highway. You

808
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: know you're in trouble. There's gonna be someone coming along soon.

809
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: So that was kind of the thinking. So in short,

810
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: the White Star Line did nothing wrong technically. And now

811
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: to an even more controversial point, it's been theorized that

812
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: more lifeboats wouldn't have actually helped save more people. Sure,

813
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: for the reasons we will now outlined, are we gonna

814
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: get angrily tweeted with Titanic survivors because of this? Oh

815
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: they're all dead? Um? As we touched on earlier, for

816
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: the first hour after the ship struck the Iceberg, PM

817
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: passengers were reluctant to get into the boats. In fact,

818
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: the first few were launched with less than twenty people

819
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: in them, when they were capable of holding sixty. People

820
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: did not want to get into them, and the reasons

821
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: why became apparent. During the himing The Titanic the movie,

822
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: Cameron had commissioned the well In Company, the original company

823
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: who built the lifeboat davits, which are the little cranes

824
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: that you launched the boats to replicate what they've done

825
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: on the ship, and in fact they re ya and

826
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: in fact they reinforced them slightly more than the vintage versions. Um.

827
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: But even so, these things bounce up and down in

828
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: a truly terrifying way that gave the impression that they

829
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: were going to snap. So picture it. Lifeboats were swung

830
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: off the boat deck, suspended by these bouncing, seemingly rinky

831
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: dink cranes over a ninett nine story drop into the

832
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: freezing black sea below. Passengers were not interested. I mean,

833
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: the Titanic at this point you couldn't even tell that

834
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: it was sinking. It was bright, it was warm, it

835
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: was huge. It's just it kind of makes sense get

836
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: into the rattily bouncy death trap. No rich people. Famously,

837
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: a lifeboat drill had been scheduled for the morning of

838
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: April fourteenth, the day the Titanic struck the life lifeberg,

839
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: but it was canceled because the ship's captain, Edward J.

840
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: Smith allegedly wanted to deliver one last Sunday service before

841
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: he went into full retirement. At the end of the voyage.

842
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: He would die in the sinking so these boats were

843
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 1: an unknown quantity to the pastors, and it's a little

844
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: surprised that people preferred to stay on the safe ship.

845
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: John jacob Astor, the richest man aboard, was heard to

846
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: say to his wife, we are safer here than in

847
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: that little boat. He also died with his dog. Right. Yeah.

848
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: The crew, if they knew the seriousness of the situation

849
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: the beginning, were put in the difficult position of trying

850
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: to convey urgency without starting a panic. All right, this

851
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: grimmer and grimmer, I mean a lot of them didn't

852
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: even know. A lot of the like slower ranking crew members.

853
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: So if they were aware at all that there was

854
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: a problem, they were trying to strike a balance between

855
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, urgency without terrifying these people. You know, since

856
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: as we estatis, there wasn't enough boat space for all

857
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: on board. The first boats that were launched early in

858
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,479
Speaker 1: the sinking to a third of their capacity were ordered

859
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: to return to the ship to receive more passengers, but

860
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: they kept rowing away for fear of being swamped. Once

861
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: that they saw the ship was in serious danger. Uh,

862
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: someone aboard one of these uttered the famous line, it's

863
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: our lives now. Uh, that is just a grim line

864
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: people are the worst, so by the time passengers started

865
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: willingly heading towards the boats, it has been theorized that

866
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: there wouldn't have enough time to even launch all of them.

867
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: As it stood, the last two lifeboats to leave the

868
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: Titanic weren't even launched. They just floated off the ship

869
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: as it sank. One of which, collapsible b that's my

870
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: rap name was upside down and thirty men balanced on

871
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: top of it all night as the air pocket underneath

872
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: leaked and it slowly sank lower and lower into the water.

873
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 1: Oh it's like working. In digital media documentary Titanic twenty

874
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: years later with James Cameron, he tests the notion that

875
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: more people would have been saved had there been more lifeboats.

876
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: After calculating the time it would take too ready load

877
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: and lower boat, he concluded that more lifeboats actually would

878
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: have been a hindrance, saying, I think if you had

879
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: more lifeboats on that ship, they would have just gotten

880
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: in the way and would have cost hundreds of lives.

881
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: As an interesting aside for pedantic memorabili aboves like yourself,

882
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: you rang the wearaboats of the Titanic lifeboats are unknown

883
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,479
Speaker 1: thirteen of the twenty were deposited on the White Star

884
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: Lines New York doc by the rescue ship Carpathia, with

885
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: the rest set adrift on the ocean. One collapsible, a

886
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: that's your rap name was recovered in the open ocean

887
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: weeks later and brought to New York with the others,

888
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: bringing the total recovered ships too. I think there was

889
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: some bodies in it too. H souvenir hunters pillaged many

890
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: of the name plates and other items from inside, including

891
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: an emergency hardtack pilot biscuit, which still exists and was

892
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: sold for twenty three thousand dollars worth every penny it

893
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: was you. That's that's my Christmas gift to myself. But

894
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: the lifeboats is priceless and depressing. Artifacts from this historic

895
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: night have vanished. It's believed that they were either scrapped,

896
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: left rot New York or quietly redistributed to other vessels

897
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: sometime after the sinking. Can you imagine finding out one

898
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: of your lifeboats on your ship was repurposed from the Titanic.

899
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean that, yeah, hence less why I said quietly,

900
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: I have a story that I don't have any room

901
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: for it. But this is maybe a good time to

902
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: mention it. So, the Titanic had an identical sister ship.

903
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: They're almost identical sister ship, the Olympic, and she was

904
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: relatively near the crash site or the sinking site, and

905
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: she radioed the rescue ship. Because the ship that rescued

906
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: the survivors, the Carpathi, was a small ship, she offered

907
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: to come by and pick up the Titanic survivors. And

908
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: everyone was like, no, all of these people just saw

909
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: people die when the ship went down, And now an

910
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: identical sister ship will come out of the ocean like

911
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: a terrifying ghost ship, and they're gonna go have to

912
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 1: board the ship that looks identical to the one where

913
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: they just watched their family die on. No, they're not

914
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: gonna want to board that ship. No, stay away. Uh.

915
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: Considering there was a shortage of lifeboats after the change

916
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: in regulations following the Titanic disaster, and these Titanic boats

917
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: were basically new since the ship was on her maiden voyage,

918
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: the fact that they would have gotten reused does make sense. Uh.

919
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 1: There are some people who claim to have an original

920
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: Titanic lifeboat, but none have been authenticated. It has been

921
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: claimed that one of the prop boats filmed in the

922
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: Alfred Hitchcock movie Lifeboat was a Titanic survivor, but it

923
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: is believed that this was just some pr sleight of

924
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: hands smoking mirrors in The lifeboat was found abandoned in

925
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: the hedge in England and purchased off eBay. It was

926
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: originally about Liverpool, where items from White star Line ships

927
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: were deposited after the ships were decommissioned. It is the

928
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: same size, shape, type of wood and build quality of

929
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: White star Line lifeboats of the period, but it has

930
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: not been authenticated. The only White star Line lifeboat of

931
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: the Titanic era in existence today is from a passenger tender,

932
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: the SS Nomadic, which is docked in Belfast, Ireland, but

933
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: the remains possibility that some of the original Titanic lifeboats

934
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: are out there unknown to the owners. If you were

935
00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: a friend, that's very fascinating to me. I'm very interested.

936
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: I'm just mortified by the idea that someone's lifeboat was

937
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: maybe a Titanic lifeboat. That's bad juju. Yeah, no, I agree.

938
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: Now we're gonna tell some heroic stories from the real

939
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: life sinking of the Titanic, many of which were dramatized

940
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: in James Cameron's movie The Titanic. Film re enacts the

941
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: last moments of numerous real life figures on board, and

942
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,280
Speaker 1: it's a devastating but also fascinating study of human behavior.

943
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: There's the scene where the American millionaire Benjamin Goggenheim as

944
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: Valet changing the tuxedo dinner jackets complete with roses in

945
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: the buttonholes, and Googgenheim supposedly said, we're dressed in our

946
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: best and are prepared to go down like gentlemen. And

947
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: they were last seen in the grand staircase smoking cigars

948
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: and drinking brandy. Hence the line that James Cameron added,

949
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: spoken by Guggenheim, we're dressed in our best and are

950
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: prepared to go down like gentlemen, but we would like

951
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: a brandy. Uh. They both went down with the ship

952
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: and their bodies were ever recovered. One millionaire's body that

953
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: was recovered was that I really shouldn't have phrased that

954
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: in such a cheery way. Was that of John Jacob Astor,

955
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: the richest man on the ship, and he was believed

956
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: to be among the wealthiest men on the planet, with

957
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: a personal fortune estimated at eighty seven million or two

958
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: point four or four billion in today's dollars. Well, this

959
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: is all pre income tax. I'm surprised that the fortunes

960
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: back then weren't like truly insane, but probably enough. John

961
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: Jacob Astor's body was recovered with a gold watch, golden diamond,

962
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: cuff links, diamond ring, two thousand, four hundred and forty

963
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: in American bills and hundreds more and other assorted currencies

964
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: on his person. On his person, yes, like strapped to

965
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: his body in a wallet. I guess our bill fold

966
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. They call him back them, how do you

967
00:53:53,120 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: have two hundred dollars? You know whatever? Good good Master's sorry,

968
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: Think of where he is, Think of where you are.

969
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 1: There is a persistent myth that his body was covered

970
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: in ash when it was picked up by a recovery

971
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: ship a week after the sinking. This led to the

972
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,479
Speaker 1: theory that his body was crushed by a falling smoke stack,

973
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: possibly the one that killed for Britzio in the Titanic movie.

974
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: There are conflicting reports about whether or not his body

975
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: was actually covered in ash, but this is the version

976
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: that James Cameron went with to film Master's death. They

977
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: needed to use a hundred and twenty tons of water,

978
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: and as a result, there was no way for the

979
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: actor playing Astor Eric Braden to actually rehearse it before filming,

980
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: and he later explained the preparing for that scene mentally

981
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: was terrifying, probably for several reasons. Turns out that Eric

982
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 1: Braden is a survivor of the single most deadly sinking

983
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: in history. The Wilhelm Gustlav was a cruise ship built

984
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: by Nazi Germany in the nineteen thirties and in the

985
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: ship was being used to evacuate eight civilians from the

986
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: Baltic ahead of the advancing Russian army, and on January

987
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: the ship is being used to evacuate civilians from the

988
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: Baltic ahead of the advancing Russian army, and she was

989
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: torpedoed by a Soviet submarine, resulting in the death of

990
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: nine thousand, four hundred people, nearly six times as many

991
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: who died aboard the Titanic. Eric Braden, the guy who

992
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: played John Jacob Astar and I think he's a soap

993
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: star too, was one of the one thousand, two hundred

994
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: and fifty two people who survived this disaster. So all

995
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: at all, I'm kind of shocked he agreed to sign

996
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: on for Titanic. Can imagine he wanted to relive that

997
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: James Cameron bullied him into it. Yeah, maybe we touched

998
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: on this in the first half of the episode, but

999
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: James Cameron went to insane lengths working with extras to

1000
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: ensure the film's authenticity. He gave hundreds of them elaborate

1001
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: backstories corresponding to real life figures on board, and essentially

1002
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: choreographed them on the deck as they were in real life.

1003
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: Billy Zane, who played Rose's fiance Cal, later told The

1004
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: Daily Beast one night towards the climax, it was about

1005
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: four thirty AM and the ship is dipping into the

1006
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: very chilly Pacific waters and two thousand people are scrambling

1007
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: towards the stir and her back of the ship. James

1008
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: Cameron Yell's cut. He climbs onto the deck from the

1009
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: crane basket swinging him around with the skycam, goes up

1010
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: to an extra who's this old lady and says, you're

1011
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: not just running. You need to go down to b

1012
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: deck because your daughter told you she forgot something very dear,

1013
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: her wedding ring, and she's going down there and you

1014
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: gave her five minutes and she's taken ten, and you

1015
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: regret making that choice. And Billy Zan continues, he's giving

1016
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: this backstory to a background artist, which elevated the moment

1017
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: for her and spread like wildfire to the other extras.

1018
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: And there's a scene in Titanic where a father places

1019
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 1: his daughter into a lifeboat and says, it's goodbye for

1020
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: a little while, only for a little while. And this

1021
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: was the testimony from a little girl. I think it

1022
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: was Ava Heart is a famous Titanic survivor who remembered

1023
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: those as the last words her father ever said to her.

1024
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: And here's a little detail. But I don't believe made

1025
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: it into James Camera's Titanic film him, but I think

1026
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: it was included in the almost as famous A Night

1027
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: to Remember film from the fifties, And it's always fascinated me.

1028
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: This is the story of Edith Rosenbomb and her pig.

1029
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: First class passenger Edith Rosenbomb had a plush toy pig

1030
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: with a wind up music box inside that she kept

1031
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: for good luck. It had been a gift from her

1032
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: mother after she her mother was injured in an early

1033
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: road traffic accident and when the Titanic began sinking, she

1034
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: left her nineteen trunks in her room, but took this

1035
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: pig up to the boat deck. This is when we

1036
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: need a rosenbomb. She's very fascinating. She once had this

1037
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: great quote, I've had every kind of disaster but the

1038
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: bubonic plague and a husband, so she's got personality. Initially, she,

1039
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: like so many didn't want to board a lifeboat, and

1040
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: she said in a TV interview in vent I never

1041
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: would have left the ship. But a sailor came along

1042
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you you don't want to be saved,

1043
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: well I'll save your baby. And he grabbed this pig

1044
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: from under my arm and tossed it into the lifeboat.

1045
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: And when they threw that pig, I knew it was

1046
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: my mother, called to me. Clearly the sailor thought that

1047
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: this toy pig was a baby and tossed it into

1048
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: the lifeboat. So she would follow it so to amuse

1049
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: the children on her boat boat eleven and generally helps

1050
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: keep spirits up because it was a crowded boat and

1051
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: some of the people have the stand for hours in

1052
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: the freezing cold on the ocean, which couldn't have been fun.

1053
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: Edith Throws, a mom would wind up her toy pig

1054
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: by the tail and play a little song that was

1055
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: later identified as Lascerella folk song. The pig survived and

1056
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: is currently at the Royal Maritime Museum, and amazingly, the

1057
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: music box still plays. A clip has been shared online.

1058
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: I think for years people weren't sure what the song

1059
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: actually was, so they recorded and put it online and

1060
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: hope that you know, kind of crowdsource trying to find

1061
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: the identity of a song. Um, I'd like to play

1062
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: it now. Imagine if you would, being in a tiny

1063
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: open lifeboat just before dawn and the freezing North Atlantic

1064
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: blackness all around you and hearing this echoing in the water.

1065
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: Why is everything so creepy? Back then? Yeah, the doll

1066
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: in the earlier episode in this um well to help

1067
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: a race, just a smidge of that haunting anecdote, I

1068
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: want to share that. Edith met up years later with

1069
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: a man named Frank X, who was one of the

1070
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: boys she had entertained in the boat as a ten

1071
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: month old, and she, I guess busted at her pig

1072
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: and played it for him again as a grown man.

1073
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: Presumably this was before PTSD was a thing. We're going

1074
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll be right back

1075
00:59:50,120 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: with more too much information in just a moment. There's

1076
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: the famous scene in the Titanic film where an elderly

1077
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: man has refused entry into a lifeboat. We talked about

1078
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: this earlier. His wife refuses to leave him, saying, we've

1079
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: been together for many years and where you go, I

1080
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: go as we have lived, so we will die together.

1081
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: This is is a door and Ida Strauss, a well

1082
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: known German American couple. A friend wanted to ask an

1083
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: officer about letting his doorboard the boat, but he refused

1084
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: to go. There were still women and children on board.

1085
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: Does that kind of chivalry exist? Now? I know? Yeah,

1086
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: he would have shoved a kid out of the way

1087
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: and hit the dab. Yeah. Uh is it? Or? His

1088
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: famous both because he was a congressman and perhaps most

1089
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: likely because he was the co owner of Macy's department

1090
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: store in New York? And uh is it? Or? An

1091
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: Ida Strauss was a great great grandchild. This is singer

1092
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: King Princess, which is fascinating to me. Is it or

1093
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: an Ida did indeed die together? James Cameron shows them

1094
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: in bracing in bed as their room rapidly floods. This

1095
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: is a bit of dramatic license, as they were last

1096
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: seen sitting in deck chairs. Uh and Isadora's body was

1097
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: later recovered floating in the ocean days later, which wouldn't

1098
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,959
Speaker 1: have been possible if they've been in their suite. He's

1099
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: buried at New York's wood Long Cemetery, along with an

1100
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: urn filled with water from the wreck site, in tribute

1101
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: to Ida, who was never found. The Strauss Mausoleum bears

1102
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: the following biblical verse from Song of Solomon eight seven.

1103
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it.

1104
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: Okayo Gurgi Loin's people were nine and halfway through this bitch.

1105
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: The recovery vessels retrieved just over a fifth of those

1106
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: lost in the sinking, approximately three thirty five of the

1107
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: ninety people who died, roughly a hundred and ten to

1108
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five of these were buried at sea,

1109
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: either because of the poor state of the body or

1110
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: more often because they appeared to be of a lower

1111
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: class or crew. Roughly sixty year so we're taking back

1112
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: to Halifax, Nova Scotia, and transported elsewhere for burial like

1113
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: rath Strauss, New York, but the vast majority remained in Halifax.

1114
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: Victims are buried at the Fairview Lawn Cemetery, nineteen at

1115
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: Mount Olive Catholic Cemetery, and ten at the Baron de

1116
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: Hirsch Jewish Cemetery. Uh not to be ghoulish, We're going

1117
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: somewhere with this, and the place that we are going

1118
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: is that there is a grave marker for a J.

1119
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: Dawson at the Fairview Lawn Cemetery. Naturally, following the release

1120
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: of the Titanic movie, fans freaked out, believing that they

1121
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: had found the final resting place of Leo's character Jack Dawson.

1122
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: In truth, the marker is for a twenty three year

1123
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: old irishman named Joseph Dawson, a member of the ship's

1124
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: crew who worked as a coal trimmer. Cameron claimed that

1125
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: he had no idea this guy existed when he named

1126
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: the character. Despite this, it has become one of the

1127
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: most widely visited graves at the cemetery. The Titanic production

1128
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: visited the cemetery at one point where they were filming

1129
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: in the area, and Bill Paxton later were called being

1130
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: extremely affected by the inscription on the gravestone for a

1131
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: young officer, which read each man stood at his post

1132
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: while all the weaker ones went by, and showed once

1133
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: more to all the world how Englishmen should die. Speaking

1134
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: of Titanic officers doing their duty, we should talk about

1135
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: the depiction of First Officer William Murdoch, played in the

1136
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: James Cameron movie by Ewan Stewart. James Cameron paints this

1137
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: guy is sort of a cowardly weasel. He's the one

1138
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: that cal tries to bribe for a place in the

1139
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: lifeboat with pedantic fact punch in bills that did not

1140
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: technically exist until two years after the ship sank. Yeah

1141
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: cinemason's voice. Ah. Then he shoots Jack's friend Tommy Ryan

1142
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: and another passenger during a mad rush for the boats,

1143
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: and finally he shoots himself in the head. In real life,

1144
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: things went down somewhat differently. In fact, First Officer Murdoch

1145
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: is seen as something of a hero in the real

1146
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: life sinking of the Titanic. He oversaw lifeboats on one

1147
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: entire side of the ship, having launched half before his

1148
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: counterpart on the other side had even launched one. He

1149
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: helped ten boats get away and then went around, throwing

1150
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: debt chairs, overboard serves, makeshift wraps before he ultimately died,

1151
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: likely not by his own hand. There were reports of

1152
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: people being shot that night. A letter written by a

1153
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: steerage passenger from Norway surface days after the movie was

1154
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: released that read some were shot when they wanted to

1155
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: crawl their way into the boats, but there's no evidence

1156
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: that Murdoch had anything to do with this, and his

1157
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: surviving family were extremely angry when they saw the film.

1158
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: Cameron later said that he regretted his decision to portray

1159
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: this man as a murderer. In the case of First

1160
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: Officer William McMaster, Murdoch, I took the liberty of showing

1161
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: him shoot somebody and then shoot himself. He's a named character.

1162
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,600
Speaker 1: He wasn't a generic officer. We don't know that he

1163
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: did that, but you know the storyteller and me says, oh,

1164
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: I start connecting the dots. He was on duty, He's

1165
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: carrying all this burden with him, and it made him

1166
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: an interesting character. But I was being a screenwriter. I

1167
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about being a historian, and I think I

1168
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: wasn't as sensitive about the fact that his family might

1169
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: feel offended by that. And they were the vice president

1170
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: of twentieth Century Fox traveled to Murdoch's homeland of dal Batty,

1171
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: Scotland to apologize to Murdoch's then eighty year old nephew

1172
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: and present a five thousand dollar donation to dal Batty

1173
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: High School to boost the school's William Memorial Prize or

1174
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: in other words, point zero zero zero zero zero zero

1175
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: zero zero zero one percent of what the movie grows. Sorry,

1176
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: we made your uncle into a bastard. For the ages

1177
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: in the highest grossing movie of all time, here is

1178
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: a pittance. The ship's designer, Thomas Andrews played by Victor Garber,

1179
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: is also given shabby treatment in the Cameron movie. He's

1180
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: shown his compassionate and smart, but a bit of a

1181
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: whimp at the end, standing comatose in the first class

1182
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: smoking room, staring off into space, completely broken by the

1183
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: fact that a ship is going to founder and kill hundreds.

1184
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: Rose confronts him by saying, aren't you going to try

1185
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: for it? And he just smiles meekly and hands her

1186
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: life jacket. In reality, Andrews took a much more proactive

1187
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: role that night, working hard to save the passengers. According

1188
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: to the Smithsonian magazine. There are multiple reports of Andrews

1189
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: arguing with passengers who simply didn't believe that the ship

1190
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: would sing. He was seeing throwing chairs and other buoyant

1191
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: objects into the water for people to grab onto, and

1192
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: like he does in the movie, he gave away his

1193
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: life jacket resigned himself to his fate, either to give

1194
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: one more person a spot in a lifeboat or because

1195
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: he felt duty bound to go down with his ship.

1196
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: Oh this one, This is the one that still kills me.

1197
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: One group portrayed as heroes in Titanic or the ship's band.

1198
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: The eight players, led by Wallace Hartley, played cheery music

1199
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: on deck to help keep passengers calm and avoid a

1200
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: panic until the bitter end, leading to one of the

1201
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: most enduring legends of the ship's sinking, which happens to

1202
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: be completely true. Wallace heartless body was recovered after the sinking,

1203
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: with his Eileen in its case, still strapped to him.

1204
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: It was a gift from his fiance and bore the

1205
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: plaque for Wallace on the occasion of our engagement from Maria.

1206
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: It was sold in two thousand thirteen for one point

1207
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: seven million and is now on display at a museum

1208
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: in Tennessee, dedicated to victims of the sinking. Unfortunately, the

1209
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: moisture from the water cracked the instrument and it is

1210
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: no longer playable, so the last song played on it

1211
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: was in fact the last song played on the Titanic,

1212
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 1: but that specific song is still up for debate. In

1213
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: the movie, they play the hymnal Nearer My God to

1214
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: the but a few have claimed to have heard song

1215
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: the autumn, a then current pop hit. One man who

1216
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: heard this was wireless operator Harold Bride, who was one

1217
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: of the men who'd been raiding for help. He was

1218
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: on the deck until he was literally washed off, so

1219
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: he is a credible witness. Band leader Wallace Hartley himself

1220
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: was interviewed prior to the sinking and was eerily asked

1221
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: what song he would play in the event of an emergency.

1222
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: According to snopes dot Com, Heartily responded with two songs,

1223
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: one of which was Nearer My God to Thee. It

1224
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: was reportedly Hartley's favorite hymn, and it was regularly played

1225
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: at the funerals of members of the Musicians Union. The

1226
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 1: problem with me or My God to Thee is that

1227
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: it's not a song, but more of a set of lyrics,

1228
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: there are two melodies that traditionally accompany it. In England

1229
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 1: is traditionally accompanied by a tune called Horberry, and in

1230
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: America the melody is called Bethany. Most versions of the

1231
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: Titanic story, including James Cameron, use the American version Bethany,

1232
01:08:37,520 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: which you will punch in here. But the band was British,

1233
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: so it does stand to reason that they played the

1234
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: British version, which you will punch in here. There's a

1235
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: good chance that this was the last song played on

1236
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: the Titanic. Grim really grim stuff. Did he actually say, uh, gentlemen,

1237
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: has been an honor playing with you this evening? That

1238
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that might have been uh

1239
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: James Cameron embellishment. Anyway, It's hard to think of Nearer

1240
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: My God to the without thinking of the image of

1241
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: the captain standing on the bridge in the wheelhouse as

1242
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: all the windows shot her, one of the scariest scenes

1243
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: in the movie, and almost certainly James Cameron's creation. Most

1244
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 1: witnesses saw the captain dive off the bridge just as

1245
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 1: he began to submerge, and presumably he then froze to

1246
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: death in the water. But there have been other myths

1247
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: that have him heroically rescuing a baby and delivering it

1248
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,680
Speaker 1: to a lifeboat before swimming off. Another version has him

1249
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: cheering on a bunch of men balancing on top of

1250
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: the overturned collapsible boat. Um all sounds like stuff, his

1251
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: relatives yelled in a crowded room. Hey, we actually saw

1252
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: him put a baby on a life boat. Some hearst

1253
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: paper stuff. No, he was actually I think I saw

1254
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 1: him cheering on a bunch of guys who survived. Who

1255
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: said that? Uh. The scene where the captain played by

1256
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 1: Bernard Hill, Bernard Hill, is engulfed by the flooding the wheelhouse,

1257
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: was apparently the very last scene to be filmed for

1258
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: the movie prior to reshoots. It was part of an

1259
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: all night shoot that was mandated to make up for

1260
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: lost time him and although the stuntman was equipped with

1261
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: a breathing regulator, James Cameron was in the cabin himself

1262
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: wearing a diving suit during the sun in case he

1263
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,719
Speaker 1: had to supply emergency oxygen to the stuntman. All went well,

1264
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: and afterwards Cameron had a brief rat party with the

1265
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: remaining crew members where he drank half a bottle of tequila,

1266
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,799
Speaker 1: and when he was finally taken home, he had already

1267
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: fallen asleep in the van before it left the studio,

1268
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:31,839
Speaker 1: dreaming of abusing other crew members, abused crew members dancing,

1269
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: visions of abused crew members dancing like sugarplumps in his head. Well,

1270
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: we're getting ahead of ourselves. But James Cameron had every

1271
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: right to be exhausted, because destroying the Titanic was, as

1272
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: we previously established, very hard work. The flooding of the

1273
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: dining room scenes was exhausting because they'd flooded over and

1274
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: over and over again, and after each take they have

1275
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,799
Speaker 1: to meticulously set it all back up again and reset

1276
01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,959
Speaker 1: each multi course place setting. But this is arguably preferable

1277
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: to how things were done to show the flooding of

1278
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: the Grand Staircase, which was a one shot deal. The

1279
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: Grand Staircase is arguably the most iconic room on the Titanic,

1280
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: and in the film is practically its own character. That's

1281
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: where Jack enters the world of first class before the

1282
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: dinner party scene, and if you look closely in four

1283
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: k uh you can see a steadicam operator's reflection in

1284
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: the glass when the steward opens the vestibule door for him,

1285
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: which is funny. I wonder if James Cameron is like

1286
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: haunted by cinema sins like this, if he like stays

1287
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,680
Speaker 1: up late at night googling errors and Titanic and just

1288
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: like grinding his teeth. Well, we will talk a little

1289
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: later about some of the things that he fixed for

1290
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: the three D re release. The Grand Staircase is also

1291
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,839
Speaker 1: the room where Rose meets Jack immediately after the dinner

1292
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: party scene where he invites her to go to a

1293
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 1: real party, and of course it's shown in the final

1294
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: scene of the movie when Rose reunites with Jack in

1295
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: the fantasy sequence, the meaning of which is perhaps the

1296
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: second most debated topic in this film, and we'll get

1297
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:06,600
Speaker 1: into that more later. James Cameron rebuilt four stories of

1298
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: the six story staircase on a sound stage, and this

1299
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 1: wasn't a set. It was a full scale structure made

1300
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: of solid oak. And interestingly, they actually made the staircase

1301
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: eighteen inches wider on either side because, to quote James Cameron,

1302
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: people now are just bigger. What a body shaming he is,

1303
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: Kate weighs a lot. I have to make the staircase

1304
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 1: wider because people are fatter. He's coming after he's coming

1305
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 1: after the NOVVI next. I mean, you're going to like

1306
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: colonial houses and you walk up the stairs and your

1307
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: feet can't even fit off. People were smaller background. They

1308
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: even built a massive glass dome above the stairs. There's

1309
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: just twenty four ft in diameter. But sadly it was

1310
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 1: all destroyed when they shot the sinking scene and dumped

1311
01:13:56,680 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: water into it. Obviously, since this was a one shot deal,

1312
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: they planned it out like a lunar landing and you know,

1313
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: made sure that nobody had the lens cap on or

1314
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: anything like that. It proved to be extremely dangerous. The

1315
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: water flooded the structure from multiple sides with such force

1316
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: that it caused the staircase itself to rip free from

1317
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: its foundation and float up. As Cameron explained, the staircase

1318
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 1: has got a steel footing. Then when we sank the ship,

1319
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: it lifted wood is buoyant. It ripped off that footing

1320
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 1: and it all floated up and it actually pinned two

1321
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: stunt players to the ceiling. Fortunately they weren't hurt, but

1322
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,639
Speaker 1: it was a pretty scary moment. And this is interesting

1323
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: because it may go a long way and solving a

1324
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: long growing mystery about the wreck of the Titanic. When Dr.

1325
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 1: Robert Ballard, the guy who discovered the Titanic, first dove

1326
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: on the wreck, in the grand staircase was one of

1327
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: the first places he visited, and he was disappointed to

1328
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 1: find that it was basically just a big, gaping hole.

1329
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: There was some pillars and chandeliers, but the staircase itself

1330
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 1: and the famous clock and all the ornate would work

1331
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: was nowhere to be found, and it was assumed the

1332
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: wood boring organisms had eaten over the previous seven decades.

1333
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: But later missions went further inside the ship and they

1334
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: found lots of other wooden elements elsewhere, and also the

1335
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: staircase contained a tremendous amount of wrought iron decorations, which

1336
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: theoretically would have fallen to the bottom of the staircase

1337
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 1: hole if the wood had gotten eaten away. Instead, there

1338
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: was nothing there at all, as if the staircase itself

1339
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: had just vanished. Cameron's production may have inadvertently proven a

1340
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: theory that the buoyant staircase had broken free from its

1341
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: foundation during the sinking and shot up out of the

1342
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 1: hole where the glass dome had been until moments before,

1343
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: and some eye witnesses had recalled seeing what they believed

1344
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,679
Speaker 1: to be the ship rapidly rising out of the water

1345
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: and the chaos of the last minutes. This could have

1346
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,600
Speaker 1: very well been the staircase just exiting the ship and

1347
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: shooting straight up. And there's also a story that I

1348
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: have been unable to verify or even track down. It

1349
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 1: exists purely in my memory because I find it so haunting.

1350
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,000
Speaker 1: I think it's from a book by the historian Arles Pellegrino,

1351
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 1: who's semi disgraced for telling tall tales, but I just

1352
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,560
Speaker 1: would like to share it. There were claims that passengers

1353
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: on a ship passing through the wreck site the day

1354
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:13,720
Speaker 1: after the sinking uh saw what appeared to be a

1355
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 1: multi story structure off in the distance with figures waving

1356
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 1: on it. Then it became blocked by sheets of pack ice,

1357
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: and officers on board the ship convinced the witnesses that

1358
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: they had seen just a bunch of seals on an iceberg. Ultimately,

1359
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: they steamed off without investigating. But there's a possibility, albeit remote,

1360
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: that the Grand Staircase formed a massive piece of debris

1361
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,600
Speaker 1: that dozens clung to until they either starved, froze, or

1362
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: the structure became water logged and sank, and they all

1363
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 1: drowned anyway, the fact that's only slightly less upsetting. The

1364
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 1: ruins remains of the Grand staircase from the Titanic movie

1365
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 1: production was destroyed and sold a scrap metal, rather than

1366
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: being repaired and turned into some sort of a museum.

1367
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: The most harrowing action scenes were filmed as the Titanic

1368
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: sank lower into the water, snapping into before its back end,

1369
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: or Stern rose into the air, sticking out of the

1370
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: water at a ninety degree angle like a skyscraper in

1371
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the North Atlantic, with Jack and Rose

1372
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: holding onto the top for dear life. Camera later said

1373
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: that he felt like all the previous Titanic movies depicted

1374
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: the final plunge as this graceful affair with the ship

1375
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: just drifting beneath the waves, and he wanted to go

1376
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 1: a very different route and depict the moment quote as

1377
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: the terrifyingly chaotic event that it really was. And this

1378
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: sequence required a full size set built on hydraulic lifts

1379
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: so they could tilt with a hundred and fifty extras

1380
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: and one hundred stunt performers sliding down hundreds of feet

1381
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:45,600
Speaker 1: like a giant slide, bouncing off railings and propellers on

1382
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 1: the way, and some of the stunt performers had rollers

1383
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: and ball bearings fitted into the back of their life

1384
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: belts and costumes so that that wouldn't have to be

1385
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 1: tilted quite so much. They get a push off camera

1386
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: where they were pulled also off camera with a zip corps.

1387
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: Then I would just go flying, and even though the

1388
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 1: deck was only angled about six degrees, if they could

1389
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 1: tilt the camera so it looked like they were, you know,

1390
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: just whtting gravity do the work. But there were some

1391
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 1: scenes where the set really was straight up and down vertically,

1392
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 1: and they rehearsed the scene for weeks with necessary safety

1393
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: measures put in place. The stunt performers were suspended by

1394
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 1: harnesses and wires, and also much of the set was

1395
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: either coated in foam or made of rubber. If you

1396
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: look closely at some of the people sliding down the

1397
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 1: back of the ship and hitting equipment like winches or

1398
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 1: ballards sticking out of the deck, you can see that

1399
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 1: the supposedly metal stuff actually bends because it's made of rubbers.

1400
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 1: You know, they didn't want these people get hurt when

1401
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 1: they rammed into it. Despite these precautions, this was still

1402
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: no joke. Even with harnesses, the stern would point one

1403
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 1: dred ft or ten stories straight up. One stunt man

1404
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: broke his leg and a stunt roman fractured for rib,

1405
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: leading Cameron to halt some of the more dangerous stunts

1406
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 1: and instead he uses a mix of stunt people and

1407
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: c g I, with people sometimes transforming into c g I,

1408
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: sometimes in the same shot, which is very impressive considering

1409
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 1: the technology for this was still in its infancy. They'd

1410
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: use motion capture footage of people who needed to fall

1411
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 1: many many feet and hit things like the you know,

1412
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 1: the propeller. Most famously, the split of the ship was

1413
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: done with the aid of a one thirty five size

1414
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 1: model packed with explosives to break apart as needed. Obviously,

1415
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 1: the moment when the Titanic rips into is extremely dramatic.

1416
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,000
Speaker 1: It breaks above the waterline, the back end falls back

1417
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: into the water, resulting in a massive tidal wave. In

1418
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 1: other words, it's pretty hard to miss. And this is

1419
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: interesting because about half of the survivors of the Titanic

1420
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 1: sinking believe that the ship sank in one piece. Granted

1421
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: it was a lot darker in real life than Cameron's

1422
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,599
Speaker 1: film When Have You Believe? Considering it was a movingless nipe.

1423
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: Once the ship's lights failed, the Titanic was mostly visible

1424
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 1: to people in lifeboats purely as a silhouette that blotted

1425
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 1: out the stars, so that may have been a factor

1426
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 1: as to why so many people didn't see it break apart.

1427
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,240
Speaker 1: Another theory is that it actually broke it a somewhat

1428
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: less dramatic fashion below the waterline as part of the

1429
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 1: aforementioned Titanic twenty years later with James Cameron documentary, Cameron

1430
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: tested this out with a large model and determined that

1431
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 1: he got it wrong in his film, but he wasn't

1432
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 1: sure how. As he said in the documentary, we found

1433
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: out that you could have the stern sink vertically, or

1434
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: you could have the stern fall back with a big splash,

1435
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: but you can't have both. So the film got it

1436
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: wrong on one point or the other. I tend to

1437
01:20:27,280 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 1: think it's wrong on the fall back of the Stern

1438
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:31,879
Speaker 1: because of what we see on the wreck. Despite this flub,

1439
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: Cameron was justifiably proud of his work, depicting the Titanic's

1440
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: final moments on the surface and footage from Those scenes

1441
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,519
Speaker 1: were featured prominently in the trailer, and Cameron later commented

1442
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: that shot alone of the ship breaking in two got

1443
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 1: our opening weekend audience. Before we move on, we need

1444
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: to talk briefly about a man named Charles Jocklin. I

1445
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:54,479
Speaker 1: think it's how you say his name. He's the man

1446
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 1: in white next to Jack and Rose as they hang

1447
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 1: onto the railing on the stern as the ship goes down.

1448
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 1: He was the chief baker on the Titanic and is

1449
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: widely believed to be the last man off Titanic. He

1450
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: held onto the stern and wrote it down to the

1451
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,799
Speaker 1: water like an elevator, as he later described, without getting

1452
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:16,440
Speaker 1: his head wet. His survival story is insane and sometimes

1453
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 1: goes beyond the realms of believability, but it's generally taken

1454
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 1: as factual. He's something of a folk hero, and I

1455
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: think he's our actual friend of the pod, Dora's favorite

1456
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,720
Speaker 1: Titanic survivor, so the stories for Dora h In his

1457
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: role as the chief baker, he sent his men up

1458
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: to the lifeboats to load them up with loaves of

1459
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: bread and provisions. Uh. Then he went to the boat

1460
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: deck himself to help load the boats and When people refused,

1461
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 1: insisting that they wanted to stay on board the ship,

1462
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 1: he would physically grab them and throw them into the boat,

1463
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: which not great bedside manner, but appreciated. He was supposedly

1464
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: offered a job of captaining one of the lifeboats, but

1465
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 1: he saw there were several other sailors inside the boat,

1466
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: so he refused, opting to stay aboard the ship. And

1467
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: by this point all the boats were gone, so he

1468
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: busied himself throwing upwards of fifty deck chairs overboard to

1469
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 1: act as ad hoc rafts in the water. And when

1470
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 1: there was nothing else left to do, he went and

1471
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 1: poured himself a stiff drink. Or several accounts very when

1472
01:22:15,479 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 1: the Titanic began to break into he ran to the stern,

1473
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: held onto the guardrail on the outside of the ship,

1474
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 1: and rowed it down into the water. And here's where

1475
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: it gets crazy, or even here where it gets crazy. Yeah,

1476
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 1: the water was twenty eight degrees or four degrees below freezing.

1477
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 1: Human beings can only survive in water that cold for

1478
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,919
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes, if you're being generous, more like fifteen.

1479
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,759
Speaker 1: He somehow was able to tread water for several hours

1480
01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: while clutching debris, and at daybreak he finally saw the

1481
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 1: overturned collapsible b lifeboat and swam over to it, but

1482
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: there was no room for him on it, so we

1483
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: clung on half in, half out, with his legs dangling

1484
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 1: in the water until a second lifeboat came by. He

1485
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: swam to that boat and was pulled in, and miraculously

1486
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: he was fine. The only damage he suffered was some

1487
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: swollen feet. He attributed his good fortune to the alcohol

1488
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,440
Speaker 1: in his system, which he believed kept him warm and insulated.

1489
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 1: Doctors will insist that that's not how it works physiologically. Amazingly,

1490
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 1: this was the second time he had survived the shipwreck.

1491
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 1: He was also aboard the S s Oregon in eighteen

1492
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: eighty six, which also had enough lifeboats for only half

1493
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: the people on board. He died in nineteen fifty six

1494
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 1: at the age of seventy eight in Patterson, New Jersey,

1495
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: his mind boggling. I do, I do wonder how much

1496
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: of this he made up, but it's taken as fact.

1497
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: God love him. Well, where are we in depressing count again?

1498
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: Okay okay, okay, okay, cool cool cool cool cool? Uh. Well,

1499
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:54,720
Speaker 1: although it might have been slightly easier to shoot than

1500
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: the sinking scenes. All the footage of passengers thrashing around

1501
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: in the water brought hazards of its own, especially for

1502
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 1: Ate Winslet, who, as we mentioned before, had the most

1503
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 1: miserable time on the set. The final scene that she

1504
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 1: shot was the one after the Titanic slipped beneath the

1505
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,480
Speaker 1: waves and she and Leo are pulled underwater, spinning around chaotically.

1506
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,719
Speaker 1: Is the stern of the ship disappears behind them, beginning

1507
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,719
Speaker 1: it's two and a half mild descent to the ocean floor.

1508
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: For these close ups, Kate and Leo needed to be

1509
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 1: weighed down to the bottom of a tank that she

1510
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 1: described as twelve ft deep. She later said, looking back,

1511
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 1: I can't believe I allowed that to be done to

1512
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:34,120
Speaker 1: me that In the Leo fart jackets uh. Leo, who

1513
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 1: was scuba certified, stayed by her side and would stroke

1514
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: her legs in time with the breathing so that she

1515
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't get flustered. Unfortunately, she had a problem using an

1516
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,759
Speaker 1: air regulator to inhale air and swallowed mouthfuls of water

1517
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: while unable to kick her way to the surface. After

1518
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: three takes, she said, I simply said I couldn't do anymore.

1519
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: I just want to sell everyone that. Jordan titled this

1520
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 1: next section drowning in free using piss. Sometimes just the

1521
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 1: views just flows through you. Um. This brings us to

1522
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:14,519
Speaker 1: some of the most disturbing scenes in the movie, he said,

1523
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 1: gleefully like a true crime podcast host, describing as someone

1524
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: was raped and murdered, dismembered, uh, depicting people freezing to

1525
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 1: death in the North Atlantic. In reality, as we said earlier,

1526
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: the water was twenty eight degrees or four degrees below freezing.

1527
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 1: According to the Red Cross, hypothermia would have killed many

1528
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 1: people in as little as fifteen minutes because you lose

1529
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:40,120
Speaker 1: heat faster in water. Earlier in the movie, when Jack

1530
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: is persuading Rose not to jump off the back of

1531
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: the ship, he tells the story of falling through some

1532
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 1: thin ice as a boy and the water feeling like

1533
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,839
Speaker 1: being stabbed with a thousand knives all over your body.

1534
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: That is a direct quote taken from Titanic survivor Charles Lightowler,

1535
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:59,840
Speaker 1: who served as the second officer on the ship. The

1536
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: water in the massive tank on the set of Titanic

1537
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: wasn't that cold, but it was still very cold. Cameron

1538
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:08,080
Speaker 1: was faced with the problem of keeping it cold enough

1539
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: that it didn't steam like a jacuzzi, but also warm

1540
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: enough that people didn't die, which suredly he didn't like

1541
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: the director's quandary. Yeah, he told People Magazine in the

1542
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: water in the tank was about eighty degrees, so it

1543
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 1: was really like a pool. All of the cold, frigid

1544
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: breath was added later. It was real breath, filmed and

1545
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 1: composited in which seems like a ridiculous thing to do.

1546
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:41,719
Speaker 1: Hashtag James Cameron baby. It was about three ft deep,

1547
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,919
Speaker 1: although there were deeper areas that people would dive into

1548
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: off the boat set because you're not supposed to dive

1549
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 1: in less than three ft of water. And while the

1550
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 1: water may have started at eighty degrees, it did not

1551
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,200
Speaker 1: stay that warm, simply because there was so much of it.

1552
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 1: By most accounts and recluting Kate Winslet's the temperature for

1553
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:05,360
Speaker 1: that tank was more like sixty degrees, which doesn't sound

1554
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: that bad, but imagine being submerged in that for hours. Uh.

1555
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:14,639
Speaker 1: They had mid level production supervisors acting as guinea pigs

1556
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,600
Speaker 1: to see how long they could safely say submerged in

1557
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 1: the unheeded outdoor tank, and they determined several hours would

1558
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: be just fine. Can you imagine learning where you fall

1559
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: in the production hierarchy of just not not hot enough

1560
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: to get points off the back end, not low enough

1561
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:39,360
Speaker 1: to be shot at by James Cameron, but Ryan in

1562
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: the lower middle, where they make you stand in sixty

1563
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: degree water before your legs go sit, say oh you sit?

1564
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: You just bob around? Good lord, Getting the getting the pool.

1565
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet told the l a times the water was filthy,

1566
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 1: dirt blue into it, and actors splashing around, and it

1567
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 1: got kidney infections. I only got to wear a wet

1568
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: suit for a wide shot in the big tank where

1569
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: the water was about sixty degrees, and that felt absolutely freezing.

1570
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:16,440
Speaker 1: Thankfully they had rules for how long extras and performers

1571
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: would have to sit motionless in the water. The extras

1572
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 1: have been covered in wax on their clothes and hair

1573
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: to create a frozen effect. Their faces were doused with

1574
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,919
Speaker 1: a powder that crystallized in water to look like frost,

1575
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 1: and they were given contact lenses that made them look

1576
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: like dead fish. Every few hours, these frozen blue corpses

1577
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: would suddenly become re animated, stand up and march off

1578
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: to take a break. There were warm water hoses and

1579
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: hot tubs nearby for actors to warm up, and uh

1580
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 1: Billy Zane told a great story to The New York

1581
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: Post paints a beautiful picture. The cast would sit in

1582
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: these hot tubs, fully dressed in their nine costumes, chowing

1583
01:28:56,080 --> 01:29:00,120
Speaker 1: down on craft services, saying, you're gnashing on a hot

1584
01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:03,160
Speaker 1: dog in a tux in a hot tub, just deadpan,

1585
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:08,600
Speaker 1: without any reaction, like this is completely normal. One of

1586
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: the onset paramedics that that he was tasked with keeping

1587
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:14,679
Speaker 1: an eye out for quote, violent shivering, in which case

1588
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:16,720
Speaker 1: he was instructed to take those people out of the

1589
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 1: water right away, presumably to the chagrine of James Cameron.

1590
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 1: But other than emergencies and the pre established breaks, people

1591
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 1: were not really allowed to leave the frozen waste land

1592
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:31,480
Speaker 1: of the pool, including for bathroom breaks. There's a persistent

1593
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: legend surrounding James Cameron, dating to his time filming The

1594
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Abyss in the late eighties that he forbade those on

1595
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: the set from going to the bathroom, and it would

1596
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 1: appear that this tradition continued on the set of Titanic,

1597
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 1: supposedly due to the strict schedule he was forced to

1598
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 1: keep or and forced others to keep um. In some version,

1599
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 1: he threatened to fire people on the spot if they

1600
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 1: dared to take a pea break. Cameron has denied this,

1601
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:59,320
Speaker 1: presumably for legal reasons, but Kate Winslet has spoken several

1602
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: times over the is about her and Leo being forced

1603
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 1: to pee in the massive water tank. She said during

1604
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 1: an appearance on the Rosy O'donald show, you know when

1605
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,719
Speaker 1: you gotta go, you gotta go. It was so awful,

1606
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: because Leo sometimes would say to me, Sweetie, I gotta pa.

1607
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 1: It was terrible. It was awful, and you always felt

1608
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: awful doing it. It took too long getting out with

1609
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: the wet clothes. I confess it happened. The two of

1610
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 1: them would apparently pe and shifts, taking turns, swimming over

1611
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 1: to another part of the tank. I've learned so much

1612
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: about Leonardo Dicapra's bodily functions. Yeah, yeah, that's true, part

1613
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:47,519
Speaker 1: jacket designated peace spots and James Cameron's human soup boy

1614
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 1: and from pissing in a pool, we naturally go to

1615
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: Cathy Bates. She played the beloved heroine of the Titanic

1616
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 1: story the so called unsinkable Molly Brown. Those we mentioned

1617
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 1: in the prior episode. No one called her Molly at

1618
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,240
Speaker 1: the time. She went by Margaret. She and the other

1619
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:07,920
Speaker 1: women in lifeboat number six took a very proactive role

1620
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,160
Speaker 1: that night. The boat was overseen by one of the

1621
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: Titanic's crew, Quartermaster Robert Hitchens, who was the one who

1622
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:15,639
Speaker 1: had his hand on the ship's wheel during the collision.

1623
01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: Though it would be wrong to say that the collision

1624
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 1: was his fault, it's perhaps not a coincidence that he

1625
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,720
Speaker 1: was in a bit of a pissy mood. Another man

1626
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 1: on the boat was Lookout Frederick Fleet, the man who

1627
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:29,880
Speaker 1: first spotted the iceberg from the crow's nest. So weird

1628
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 1: mood in that boat, I could imagine Molly Brown has

1629
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: depicted in the Titanic movie. Wanted to go back to

1630
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 1: the wreck site and try to rescue people screaming in

1631
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: the water. Hitchens, the commander of the boat, refused, fearful

1632
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 1: that the boat would get swamped, and he delivered the

1633
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,400
Speaker 1: immortal line, there's no use going back. There's only a

1634
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: lot of stiffs out there. It's our lives now, not

1635
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:53,719
Speaker 1: there's In the movie, Molly Brown backs down. In real life,

1636
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 1: Molly Brown overruled him. She went for the oars and

1637
01:31:57,280 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: he tried to physically stop her. Molly then three to

1638
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 1: throw him overboard, and other women in the boat backed

1639
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 1: her up, and Hitchens, sensing a mutiny, back down. He

1640
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 1: spent the rest of the night cussing her out to

1641
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 1: such a degree that one of the engine stokers who

1642
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 1: had been rescued finally asked him, don't you know you're

1643
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: talking to a lady. This poor guy, he really has

1644
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 1: a bad rap. He supposedly complained that the lifeboat was

1645
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: going to drift for days before any rescue came, which

1646
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:26,560
Speaker 1: was not true, and at least two passengers in the

1647
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: boat publicly accused Hitchens of being drunk. But anyway, Molly

1648
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 1: Brown took command of the boat, passing out oars to

1649
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 1: other women and organizing the rowing, and after being rescued,

1650
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 1: she helped organize a committee with other wealthy passengers to

1651
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:42,439
Speaker 1: provide basic services to second and third class survivors and

1652
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:45,520
Speaker 1: even basic counseling, which I feel like it's very advanced.

1653
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 1: So all in all, a pretty cool lady. Uh, Molly

1654
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:52,719
Speaker 1: Brown's boat failed to recover any survivors. In fact, only

1655
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:56,520
Speaker 1: two boats actually went back specifically to look for survivors,

1656
01:32:56,600 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 1: Boat four and Boat fourteen. In the movie, Rose is

1657
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 1: rescued by fifth Officer Harold Lowe, who transferred survivors from

1658
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:07,440
Speaker 1: his lifeboat into others in order to row backs specifically

1659
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:10,799
Speaker 1: to rescue people from the water, and he purposely waited

1660
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: a short time until the cries died down slightly so

1661
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 1: that his boat wouldn't get swamped, which is agonizing, but

1662
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 1: one of those choices one had to make that night.

1663
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:25,200
Speaker 1: I suppose that was a very real concern, But as

1664
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: his character says in the movie, he waited too long.

1665
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 1: In real life, he rescued just four men taken from

1666
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:33,439
Speaker 1: the water, and one of whom died later that night.

1667
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: I think the total of people plucked from the water

1668
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 1: who survived were thirteen. Um in the film office were

1669
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 1: low wheels of flashlight during his search for bodies, which

1670
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:45,760
Speaker 1: is understandable because it's a movie you need to be

1671
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,479
Speaker 1: able to see what's happening. But in reality this all

1672
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 1: unfolded and complete darkness. As The New York Times notes,

1673
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 1: much of the ending should have been a pitch black sequence,

1674
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:58,599
Speaker 1: and though the first battery powered flashlights were invented in

1675
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 1: these early versions were weak and unreliable, and as far

1676
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 1: as I'm aware, the only flashlight adjacent tool that the

1677
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: survivors had in their lifeboats that night was a passengers

1678
01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:12,120
Speaker 1: cane that had a tiny battery powered light that was

1679
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 1: waved around to attract the attention of other lifeboats so

1680
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: they could stick together. And speaking of extremely granular points

1681
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:23,679
Speaker 1: about illumination, this brings us to the stars. Years after

1682
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:26,679
Speaker 1: the release of Titanic, James Cameron got what he described

1683
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 1: as quote quite a snarky email from astrophysicist Neil de

1684
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 1: grass Tyson beforeing him that the star field that Rose

1685
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 1: sees as she gazes up from her improvised life raft

1686
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:38,040
Speaker 1: was not the one she would have seen at that

1687
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,599
Speaker 1: location in nineteen twelve. So Cameron, who, let's remember, basically

1688
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,639
Speaker 1: rebuilt and sunk the Titanic and visited the real one

1689
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: twelve times, took this oversight hard. He said, with my

1690
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 1: reputation as a perfectionist, I should have known that, and

1691
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 1: I should have put the right star field in. So

1692
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 1: I said, all right, send me the right stars for

1693
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: that exact time, and I'll put it in the movie.

1694
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,000
Speaker 1: And that's what he did. He reshot the scene for

1695
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 1: the three D edition of the movie that was released. Well,

1696
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 1: now we have arrived at what is, without a doubt,

1697
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 1: the most controversial section of this episode, and things are

1698
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 1: gonna get heated. It's time to talk about so called

1699
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: door controversy. Hashtag door controversy, hashtag all doors matter. After

1700
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:28,720
Speaker 1: the Titanic disappeared, beneath them, Jack and Rose swim to

1701
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 1: a piece of wreckage commonly referred to in the discourse

1702
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 1: as a door. In fact, it is actually a piece

1703
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 1: of ornately carved wood paneling above the forward door in

1704
01:35:40,200 --> 01:35:45,640
Speaker 1: the first class lounge you insects. It is actually a

1705
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 1: real piece of wreckage that was recovered after the sinking

1706
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: by one of the ships tasked with picking up bodies,

1707
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 1: and it is currently on display at the Maritime Museum

1708
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 1: of the Atlantic in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where you can

1709
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:59,040
Speaker 1: see an original Titanic deck chair that was pulled from

1710
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,760
Speaker 1: the ocean, as well as many other artifacts. Have you

1711
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:04,720
Speaker 1: been there, I've never been there. No, we should go,

1712
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:07,040
Speaker 1: and we should? Is that on the east or west

1713
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: side of Canada? East? Yeah? Uh? If you go to

1714
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 1: pay this piece of rose wreck would a visit be

1715
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: prepared like the Mona Lisa. It's actually a lot smaller

1716
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: in real life than James Cameron's version, you say, about

1717
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 1: half a size. Cameron made it bigger because the original

1718
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 1: would never have been able to support the weight of

1719
01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:33,640
Speaker 1: a human being. But the real question that's on everybody's

1720
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 1: lips could have held Jack. Over the last twenty five years,

1721
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:40,840
Speaker 1: many Titanic fans have argued that there was room for

1722
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:46,600
Speaker 1: both Rose and Jack on that piece of not a door. Instead,

1723
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 1: Jack did the gentlemanly thing and treaded water alongside the

1724
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: wreckage until dying, frozenly Wetlee until Wetley dying. The debate

1725
01:36:59,240 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 1: continues to ray Age. Leo has asked his thoughts about

1726
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 1: it by MTV News in twenty nineteen during a junket

1727
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 1: for Once upon a Time in Hollywood, to which she

1728
01:37:07,400 --> 01:37:11,639
Speaker 1: wisely replied no comment. Kate Winslet's opinion has flip flopped

1729
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:14,320
Speaker 1: over the years. Years back, during an appearance on Jimmy Kimmels,

1730
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:16,640
Speaker 1: she said, I think he actually could have fit on

1731
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 1: that bit of door, But more recently she changed her tune.

1732
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,040
Speaker 1: Telling Josh Horwitz during an episode of The Happy, Sad,

1733
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:24,639
Speaker 1: Confused podcast, she didn't think it would work with two people.

1734
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: She likened it to two adults on a stand up

1735
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 1: paddle board. Oh, these coastal elites, and they're out of touch, similes,

1736
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 1: saying it becomes immediately extremely unstable. I actually don't believe

1737
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:37,439
Speaker 1: that we would have survived if we had both gotten

1738
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 1: on that door. I think he could have fit, but

1739
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:41,559
Speaker 1: it would have tipped, and it would not have been

1740
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:45,120
Speaker 1: a sustainable idea. And that gets closer to the truth.

1741
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: It is less question of size and more of a

1742
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:50,240
Speaker 1: question of buoyancy. Though there may have been room, it's

1743
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 1: doubtful that it would have stayed afloat. And this was

1744
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,600
Speaker 1: the premise of a special two thousand twelve episode of

1745
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:00,280
Speaker 1: MythBusters featuring James Cameron, who joked that it was a

1746
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 1: necessary plot point for Jack to die because if he lives,

1747
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:06,160
Speaker 1: the movie makes a tenth as much. The script says

1748
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 1: Jack died, he has to die. So maybe we screwed

1749
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: up and the board should have been a little tiny

1750
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,400
Speaker 1: bit smaller. But the dudes going down the MythBusters test

1751
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: concluded the only way they could have stayed afloat was

1752
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:22,000
Speaker 1: if they tied Roses life jacket underneath the board to

1753
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 1: help with its buoyancy. Otherwise, the weight of both their

1754
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 1: bodies would have sunk the board low enough in the

1755
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 1: freezing water that they both would have died. Another wild

1756
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:32,760
Speaker 1: card here is the fact that Jack and Rose were

1757
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 1: trudging through the freezing water inside the ship for over

1758
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 1: an hour, so they probably would have lasted even less

1759
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 1: time in the ocean because their body temperature had already

1760
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:44,519
Speaker 1: been lowered. In fact, some experts have said that they

1761
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 1: both would have died of hypothermia long before the ship

1762
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:51,599
Speaker 1: even actually sank. James Cameron, as usual as answers prepared

1763
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: for all of this, he told the Toronto Son during

1764
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:56,560
Speaker 1: press for the New Avatar movie that he had commissioned

1765
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 1: a scientific study, quote to put this whole thing to

1766
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: rest and drive a stake through its heart once and

1767
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: for all. He continued. We have since done a thorough

1768
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 1: forensic analysis with a hypothermia expert who reproduced the wrath

1769
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: from the movie, and we're going to do a little

1770
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:18,719
Speaker 1: special on it that comes out in February. We took

1771
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 1: two stunted people who were the same body mass of

1772
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:24,760
Speaker 1: Kate and Leo, and we put sensors all over and

1773
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:30,439
Speaker 1: inside them. Question Mark and we said, and we put

1774
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:33,519
Speaker 1: them in ice water, and we tested to see whether

1775
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 1: they could have survived the a variety of methods, and

1776
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,360
Speaker 1: the answer was there was no way both of them

1777
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: could have survived. Only one could survive. This man needs

1778
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:50,600
Speaker 1: to be stopped. This is what happens when you have

1779
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:55,080
Speaker 1: too much money and power and self confidence. Did he

1780
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:58,599
Speaker 1: aintally penetrate these people? I don't know how he's got

1781
01:39:58,640 --> 01:40:01,760
Speaker 1: sensors inside. I think I'm more interested in, like, hey, hey, Kate,

1782
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 1: he leo, what was your BM? I back? Okay, Yeah,

1783
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:09,040
Speaker 1: remember all that body shaming I did. If you go

1784
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 1: back to that headspace, send me your set diary where

1785
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 1: I told you to weigh in every day. So uh,

1786
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: stay tuned to National Geographic premiering in February onto Alex's

1787
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 1: fan theory corner. Yes, uh, there are fans who agree

1788
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 1: with James Cameron's quote. If the script says Jack dies,

1789
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:37,360
Speaker 1: he has to die. Also, famously, Dolph Loundrons quote about

1790
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:42,479
Speaker 1: Carl Weathers and Rocky too, if he dies, he dies. Uh.

1791
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:46,600
Speaker 1: There's an internet theory positing that the film Titanic, not

1792
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:49,519
Speaker 1: the boat Titanic, is said in the same universe as

1793
01:40:49,560 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 1: the Terminator movies, and Jack Dawson was a time traveler

1794
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 1: from the same future where Skynet has taken over the

1795
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 1: Earth and humanity is enslaved by robots or that's the matrix.

1796
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: They're still fighting, they still have a fighting chance in Terminator. Uh.

1797
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 1: Similar to the Titanic plot line in which Kyle Reese

1798
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 1: went back in time to protect Sarah Connor for me,

1799
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:16,360
Speaker 1: t e model, Terminator set up the birth of resistance

1800
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:20,839
Speaker 1: leader John Connor, which is he's his own granddad theory.

1801
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,519
Speaker 1: Isn't that what they call that? I think so it's

1802
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 1: like the Futurama plot where Fries is, I don't know,

1803
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: there's a whole time travel man, I don't I love

1804
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:31,879
Speaker 1: my favorite bit of time travel explaining ways in Looper

1805
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,679
Speaker 1: where uh, what's his name? Not French Stewart the other

1806
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:39,840
Speaker 1: one Joseph Gordon Levitt playing young Bruce Willis, and he's

1807
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:43,439
Speaker 1: trying to prod Bruce Willis into explaining how the time

1808
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 1: travel works, and Bruce was says something like, uh, you

1809
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 1: think about it too much, it all gets fuzzy. The

1810
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:54,519
Speaker 1: best hand wave away. UM. Titanic Terminator theory states that

1811
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 1: Jack sacrificed himself to save Rose because that was his mission.

1812
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:01,640
Speaker 1: He went back in time to protect Rose. Do it, Bukada?

1813
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:05,000
Speaker 1: Why is her name so close to Bukaki, who was

1814
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:08,519
Speaker 1: another ancestor of John Conner to prevent her suicide and

1815
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 1: ensure that she survived the sinking of the Titanic. Evidence

1816
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 1: cited by believers of this theory point to a number

1817
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:19,080
Speaker 1: of anachronisms concerning Jack and his life story. For instance,

1818
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:21,559
Speaker 1: when talking about his childhood, Jack claims to have grown

1819
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 1: up by Lake Wasta near Chippawa Falls, Wisconsin. Lake Wassoda

1820
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:29,000
Speaker 1: is a man made lake that wasn't made until nineteen seventeen,

1821
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:33,800
Speaker 1: five years after the Titanic sank Checkmate James Cameron. Also,

1822
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:35,479
Speaker 1: in the scene where he and Rose are discussing what

1823
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:37,519
Speaker 1: they want to do when they get to America, Jack

1824
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 1: suggests going to the pier in Santa Monica, where they

1825
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:41,960
Speaker 1: can ride on the roller coaster until we throw up.

1826
01:42:42,360 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 1: Santa Monica's peer didn't acquire a roller coaster until nineteen sixteen,

1827
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 1: four years after the Titanic sank. Checkmate James Cameron. It

1828
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 1: has also been no, I will not rest until we

1829
01:42:55,360 --> 01:43:00,360
Speaker 1: have bankrupted this man by pointing out every single horrable

1830
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:03,519
Speaker 1: anachronism in this film and forcing him to go back

1831
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:09,479
Speaker 1: and do reshoots a d R vision VFX punches until

1832
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: he has no money left, and delaying the release of

1833
01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 1: Avatar six Southie until it has also been noted by

1834
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:23,640
Speaker 1: various vintage clothing experts that Jack's ruck sack was of

1835
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:26,920
Speaker 1: a style that wouldn't be manufactured until nineteen thirty nine,

1836
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:34,360
Speaker 1: Cross examining him. But ruck sack prosecutor, Mr Cameron, what

1837
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:37,040
Speaker 1: do you have to say about that? This is probably

1838
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:39,920
Speaker 1: We're probably James Cameron's gonna, like, regrettably, like He's gonna

1839
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 1: like tearfully have to kill the costume designer in the

1840
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:45,840
Speaker 1: dead of night costume designer like waits up in a

1841
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 1: cold sweat. James Cameron has like a silenced Walter p

1842
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:52,880
Speaker 1: pk in a scheme asking was you know what this

1843
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:55,639
Speaker 1: is about? Is? Don't you? She goes it's the rucksack,

1844
01:43:55,760 --> 01:44:00,240
Speaker 1: isn't it. He's like, yes, people on the internet, I'm sorry,

1845
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:04,960
Speaker 1: makushla he shoot sir. That is the Gaelic phrase meaning

1846
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:09,600
Speaker 1: my heart that Clint Eastwood calls Hillary Swank in a

1847
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:14,080
Speaker 1: Million Dollar Baby when he spoiler alert kills her so

1848
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:16,640
Speaker 1: if you're still traumatized by Jack's death, know that it

1849
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 1: was scientifically unavoidable, which will be proven in the months

1850
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 1: to come on National Geographic hashtag sponsored contact hashtag nat GEO,

1851
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,880
Speaker 1: hashtag I don't know do we get money for this? Hashtag?

1852
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 1: I heart media ad sales and two possibly preordained as

1853
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 1: part of a larger plan to save humanity against evil robots.

1854
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:41,320
Speaker 1: The defense rests. I think it's also worth noting that

1855
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:43,200
Speaker 1: Jack and Rose have only known each other for just

1856
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:48,280
Speaker 1: over forty eight hours at this point. Jack stopped Rose

1857
01:44:48,280 --> 01:44:52,800
Speaker 1: committing suicide on Friday, April twelve, and the Titanic sank

1858
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 1: in the early hours of Monday, April, So to say,

1859
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 1: maybe Rose got over it. As you meditate on that,

1860
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:05,960
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more too much information after

1861
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 1: these messages, there were a couple of interesting aspects about

1862
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:23,280
Speaker 1: the end of this movie. As originally scripted, Cow was

1863
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:26,400
Speaker 1: supposed to actually find Rows aboard the rescue ship the

1864
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:30,000
Speaker 1: Carpathia the morning after the sinking. Rose tells him to

1865
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:32,280
Speaker 1: let her mother know that she died on the Titanic

1866
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:34,720
Speaker 1: and demands the Cow leave her alone the rest of

1867
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 1: her life. There was another scene with Cal that was cut,

1868
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:43,240
Speaker 1: where Fabrizio, Jack's Italian friend is seen struggling in the

1869
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:46,600
Speaker 1: water trying to climb aboard Cal's lifeboat, crying that it

1870
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 1: is his destiny to go to America. Cal then knocks

1871
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:53,759
Speaker 1: him unconscious with a lifeboat or and says, America's that way.

1872
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:57,960
Speaker 1: You said that like a waspy man talking about his

1873
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:03,680
Speaker 1: son's gay for at a party. This is Fabrizio, my

1874
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:14,599
Speaker 1: son's Italian friend. Didn't know what I'm Italian. I can

1875
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:21,800
Speaker 1: say that, um Predictively, James Cameron found this scene too

1876
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,840
Speaker 1: dark and cut it. And there's still another scene that

1877
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 1: was storyboarded but never shot, in which Rose walks off

1878
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:31,600
Speaker 1: the Carpathia, the rescue ship in New York, and disappears

1879
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:35,760
Speaker 1: into the crowd, but any rare concession to Budgets The

1880
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,240
Speaker 1: scene was cut because it would have required almost a

1881
01:46:38,280 --> 01:46:41,160
Speaker 1: thousand extras brought to New York to film a thirty

1882
01:46:41,200 --> 01:46:45,840
Speaker 1: second sequence, and they just didn't go along with it. Interestingly,

1883
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:48,840
Speaker 1: Rose's scene arriving in New York on the Carpathia as

1884
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 1: it cruises past the Statue of Liberty, where she gives

1885
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:54,880
Speaker 1: her name as Rose Dawson. It's a poignant moment, but

1886
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:58,519
Speaker 1: it contains a minor historical error. In the movie, the

1887
01:46:58,560 --> 01:47:01,520
Speaker 1: statue is green as it is now, but in reality,

1888
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:05,479
Speaker 1: the statue retained his original brown color back in nineteen twelve.

1889
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:10,519
Speaker 1: And you know, as you probably, James Cameron statue is

1890
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:13,679
Speaker 1: made out of copper, and it took reportedly around thirty

1891
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:16,200
Speaker 1: five years for the elements to change it from brown

1892
01:47:16,280 --> 01:47:18,799
Speaker 1: to the green that we know today. It was unveiled

1893
01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty six, so it wasn't until the early

1894
01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:24,559
Speaker 1: twenties that it started to appear green. Here's a question.

1895
01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:26,759
Speaker 1: Why was it made out of a material that turned

1896
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: from a majestic copper to a sickly green hue? Was

1897
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:34,680
Speaker 1: that some sort of prank by the French? Okay, good?

1898
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:41,160
Speaker 1: Did you really answer for that? No? I mean sure,

1899
01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 1: if you got one, like, why not something that doesn't

1900
01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:47,519
Speaker 1: turn green? I don't know. Oh wait, Actually, according to

1901
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 1: the New York Times in two thousand nine, the green

1902
01:47:50,160 --> 01:47:54,479
Speaker 1: patina began gradually covering the surface of Liberty after nineteen hundred,

1903
01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:57,240
Speaker 1: was noted in the press at least as early as

1904
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:01,960
Speaker 1: nineteen o two, and it was entirely green by six.

1905
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: Huh have I been bested by j C. I I've

1906
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:13,599
Speaker 1: seen both. I've seen I just wanted to just flagging. Okay, well,

1907
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 1: we'll reach out or reach out to the statues reps.

1908
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 1: After Jack dies, the movie more or less returns to

1909
01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:24,000
Speaker 1: the present. There are tears in the shipboard office, where

1910
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 1: Old Rose is telling her story to Bill Paxston's character,

1911
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:31,080
Speaker 1: the treasure hunting undersea explorer brock Lovett and his crew.

1912
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:33,679
Speaker 1: The rest of the movie more or less belongs to Rose.

1913
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:37,920
Speaker 1: Uh spoilers, I guess uh he listened to the six

1914
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 1: hour podcast. I'm assuming that you've probably seen this movie.

1915
01:48:41,680 --> 01:48:43,640
Speaker 1: We see Rose sneak out to the boat deck in

1916
01:48:43,680 --> 01:48:45,360
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, clutching the Heart of the

1917
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:48,519
Speaker 1: Ocean necklace. Remember that's the diamond that Bill Paxson has

1918
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:51,000
Speaker 1: been looking for this whole time. It turns out she

1919
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:53,200
Speaker 1: had it all along, having found it in her pocket

1920
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:55,759
Speaker 1: when the Titanic survivors reached New York on the rescue

1921
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:59,639
Speaker 1: ship Carpathia, and with a gleeful yelp Old Rose tosses

1922
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:02,720
Speaker 1: the price araceless jewel overboard. And there was an e

1923
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 1: w piece by Mary Solosi published for the twentieth anniversary

1924
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: of Titanic in two thousand and seventeen called ten other

1925
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 1: Titanic baits we should be having besides the Door, And

1926
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:16,960
Speaker 1: this piece explores the many reasons why Rose throws the

1927
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:21,519
Speaker 1: priceless diamond overboard. She writes, was it symbolic of her

1928
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:24,719
Speaker 1: letting go after having been explicitly told she never should?

1929
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 1: Or does the drop diamond represent herself Rose joining her

1930
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: beloved Jack in the spot where he died a slow, cold,

1931
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 1: watery death decades prior. But is that notion undermined by

1932
01:49:34,920 --> 01:49:38,120
Speaker 1: the diamond significance as a symbol of Cow's purchase of Rose?

1933
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: That you keep it all those years just to look

1934
01:49:40,280 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 1: at it and laugh thinking about how hard he must

1935
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:44,320
Speaker 1: have searched for it, That you keep it all those

1936
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:46,679
Speaker 1: years planning to one day sail back to the spot

1937
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:48,519
Speaker 1: where she lost the love of her life and almost

1938
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:51,840
Speaker 1: died herself, and just drop it. And honestly, was it

1939
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:54,280
Speaker 1: really hers to throw away in the first place? It

1940
01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:57,080
Speaker 1: was a rather important historic artifact and just abandon it

1941
01:49:57,080 --> 01:49:59,680
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the North Atlantic is pretty irresponsible.

1942
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,360
Speaker 1: And why didn't she sell it? That would have been sensible.

1943
01:50:02,600 --> 01:50:04,920
Speaker 1: Why didn't she donate it? That would have been selfless?

1944
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 1: Why did she drop it when that is neither sensible

1945
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: nor selfless? Wants to impact with this one. I don't

1946
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:13,839
Speaker 1: have an answer to this, But there was actually supposed

1947
01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:17,120
Speaker 1: to be another ending in which old Rose throws the

1948
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:21,360
Speaker 1: diamond necklace overboard, but not before letting Bill Paxon's character

1949
01:50:21,439 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 1: hold the treasure. The scene starts with Paxston and Old

1950
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:28,639
Speaker 1: Rose's granddaughter played by Susie Amis, who, as we've said

1951
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 1: several times, went on to marry James Cameron a few

1952
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:33,760
Speaker 1: years later. They're basically flirting on the side of the

1953
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:36,479
Speaker 1: ship when they see Old Rose standing on the rung

1954
01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 1: of the ship's railing. They run over in a panic,

1955
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:43,040
Speaker 1: fearing that reliving the traumatic Titanic memories made her suicidal.

1956
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:45,640
Speaker 1: And it's actually a sort of clever call back to

1957
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:48,240
Speaker 1: the moment when Leo stops Rose from jumping off the

1958
01:50:48,280 --> 01:50:51,120
Speaker 1: back of the Titanic when they first met. Paxiston approaches

1959
01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:53,160
Speaker 1: her and sees that she's holding the diamond that he's

1960
01:50:53,200 --> 01:50:56,760
Speaker 1: spent years and frankly countless and millions of dollars searching for,

1961
01:50:57,400 --> 01:51:00,800
Speaker 1: and Rose dangles in his face and dispenses egg truisms

1962
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:03,439
Speaker 1: about how he's been looking for treasure in the wrong place,

1963
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:06,080
Speaker 1: and how only life is priceless, so we should make

1964
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:09,559
Speaker 1: each day count and basically just spoon feeding the message

1965
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:12,599
Speaker 1: of the movie of the audience. Bill Paxson's character makes

1966
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 1: a request to hold the diamond, which she allows before

1967
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 1: flinging it into the ocean. The assembled crew screams Jesus

1968
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:23,920
Speaker 1: no as they run to the rail. Louis Abernathy, the

1969
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:28,800
Speaker 1: goofy bearded guy, screams, that really sucks, lady, which is

1970
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:32,240
Speaker 1: both a hilarious understatement and a hilarious thing to shout

1971
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:37,000
Speaker 1: at an elderly woman. But Paxson's character Brock, has an

1972
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:39,840
Speaker 1: epiphany and just lets out a crazed laugh as the

1973
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 1: treasure begin. It's two and a half mile plunge. All

1974
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:47,360
Speaker 1: in all, this scene is bad. Bill Paxson was asked

1975
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:49,320
Speaker 1: about the ending just a few weeks before his death

1976
01:51:49,320 --> 01:51:52,000
Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen, and he was pretty adamant that

1977
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:54,800
Speaker 1: he wasn't a fan of this ending, telling ya who

1978
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:57,759
Speaker 1: I would have shot heroin to make the scene work better.

1979
01:51:59,160 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 1: Pretty unambigus, he continued, I always saw the wrap around

1980
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:05,360
Speaker 1: story that I was involved with with Susie Amos and

1981
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: Gloria's Stewart, who played Old Rose like we were the

1982
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 1: gantree on the Saturn five rocket. He's recalling his role

1983
01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 1: in Apollo thirteen. You know, the gantree that holds up

1984
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:18,280
Speaker 1: the rocket ship that launches Apollo thirteen into space. We

1985
01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:20,479
Speaker 1: were there the whole the rocket up, but once the

1986
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,760
Speaker 1: rocket takes off, the gantry has forgotten and falls away.

1987
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:25,479
Speaker 1: Coming back to us was a way to wrap it

1988
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:27,680
Speaker 1: up and kind of tie up Old Roses story and

1989
01:52:27,720 --> 01:52:30,200
Speaker 1: all that. But you didn't really need anything from us.

1990
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,200
Speaker 1: Our job was done by then, So it became very

1991
01:52:33,240 --> 01:52:35,439
Speaker 1: evident in the cutting. If you're smart and you take

1992
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:37,720
Speaker 1: the ego and narcissism out of it, you'll listen to

1993
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:39,840
Speaker 1: the film. The film will tell you what it needs

1994
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 1: and what it does not, and the baby needs tough love.

1995
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:47,080
Speaker 1: R I p Bill Paxton that ending would have been

1996
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:49,480
Speaker 1: way too on the nose, which is why I appreciate

1997
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,439
Speaker 1: the very end of the movie, which leaves room for ambiguity.

1998
01:52:52,880 --> 01:52:55,599
Speaker 1: Old Roses in her bunk on the ship, surrounded by

1999
01:52:55,600 --> 01:52:58,639
Speaker 1: photos from her fabulous life, including rides on the Santa

2000
01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 1: Monica Peer, just like Leo promise you would one day do.

2001
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:04,719
Speaker 1: Then there's the fantasy sequence when she descends the ocean

2002
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 1: depths and reunites with Jack at the Grand staircase amid

2003
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 1: an ovation from the rest of the lost souls who

2004
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 1: perished in the disaster, and he will notice that the

2005
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 1: clock behind Jack reads to twenty, which was the exact

2006
01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:18,799
Speaker 1: time that the ship foundered. For years, people have wondered

2007
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:21,439
Speaker 1: whether Old Rose was just dreaming in her bunk or

2008
01:53:21,479 --> 01:53:24,400
Speaker 1: if she died Like Jack said in the water, You're

2009
01:53:24,439 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 1: gonna die an old lady, warm in your bed, and

2010
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:30,080
Speaker 1: James Cameron has said that this ending was intentionally vague

2011
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:31,920
Speaker 1: so that the audience could make up their own mind,

2012
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,320
Speaker 1: and his screenplay is equally ambiguous. He writes, we pan

2013
01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:38,679
Speaker 1: off the last picture to Rose herself warm in her bunk,

2014
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 1: a profile shot. She's very still. She could be sleeping

2015
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:46,439
Speaker 1: or maybe something else. I love. He's coy in his

2016
01:53:46,520 --> 01:53:51,400
Speaker 1: own script. As we said in the previous episode, not

2017
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:54,479
Speaker 1: even actress Glorious Steward, who played Old Rose, knew for

2018
01:53:54,560 --> 01:53:56,639
Speaker 1: sure whether or not she was sleeping or dead when

2019
01:53:56,640 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 1: she filmed the scene. And she's only in the shop

2020
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 1: for a moment, so you can't tell if she's breathing

2021
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:08,160
Speaker 1: or not. I checked. Uh. The filming schedule, as we

2022
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, was intended to last a hundred and thirty

2023
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:13,639
Speaker 1: five days, but grew to a hundred and sixty. Shooting

2024
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:18,320
Speaker 1: officially wrapped, I believe on March twenty, the day before

2025
01:54:18,360 --> 01:54:21,640
Speaker 1: my sister's third birthday. James Cameron spent the summer of

2026
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,800
Speaker 1: in an at home editing room darkened by blackout curtains.

2027
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:28,200
Speaker 1: By late July, he took a day off to Mary

2028
01:54:28,280 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 1: Terminator star Linda Hamilton's, his girlfriend of seven years, in

2029
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:33,880
Speaker 1: the backyard ceremony, and then the next day he went

2030
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:37,720
Speaker 1: back to his editing suite and back to Titanic. That's

2031
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: wild to me that his his work on Avatar, his

2032
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:45,680
Speaker 1: lasted longer than several of his marriages. Yeah, but not

2033
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 1: the Susie Amos. They're still together, that one. That one

2034
01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:53,720
Speaker 1: lasted all right. God, I can't believe it took us

2035
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:56,480
Speaker 1: this long to get to this. There is one crucial

2036
01:54:56,520 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 1: component of Titanic not in place until extreme really late

2037
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 1: in the game, and that is Selene Dion's ballad My

2038
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:07,320
Speaker 1: Heart Will Go On. James Cameron originally wanted Enya to

2039
01:55:07,440 --> 01:55:10,080
Speaker 1: compose the score of the film, and even went so

2040
01:55:10,200 --> 01:55:12,960
Speaker 1: far as to assemble a rough cut using her music,

2041
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 1: but she ultimately declined. Dolores O Reordon of The Cranberries

2042
01:55:17,800 --> 01:55:21,080
Speaker 1: was apparently asked to both act in and compose music

2043
01:55:21,120 --> 01:55:23,640
Speaker 1: for the movie, but she also declined, reportedly due to

2044
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: the birth of her son. So Cameron hired his one

2045
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,600
Speaker 1: time musical collaborator James Horner, who previously worked with him

2046
01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:34,400
Speaker 1: on Aliens. I believe James Horner did the avatars um

2047
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 1: that movie. Aliens was not a pleasant experience for Horner,

2048
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:41,080
Speaker 1: as he experienced pique, James Cameron later saying Aliens was

2049
01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 1: james first big film and he wanted every frame and

2050
01:55:43,560 --> 01:55:46,200
Speaker 1: note to be perfect. But I had just ten days

2051
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 1: to write the music and there was a lot of

2052
01:55:48,040 --> 01:55:51,520
Speaker 1: friction between us. I didn't think we'd ever worked together again.

2053
01:55:51,680 --> 01:55:54,480
Speaker 1: But Horner read the script and loved it. Cameron heard

2054
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 1: his Brave Heart soundtrack and loved it. So the seeds

2055
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:03,080
Speaker 1: were re sewn. Um. James owner is, as we touched

2056
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:06,400
Speaker 1: on in the Hocus Pocus episode, somewhat of a controversial

2057
01:56:06,640 --> 01:56:11,520
Speaker 1: Hollywood composer. Uh He has been accused of reusing a

2058
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:17,040
Speaker 1: his own previously written works or uh, we're existing works

2059
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:21,959
Speaker 1: by classical composers issue of Film Score Monthly. An editorial

2060
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,320
Speaker 1: review of Titanic said Horner was quote skilled in the

2061
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:29,080
Speaker 1: adaptation of existing music into films with just enough variation

2062
01:56:29,480 --> 01:56:33,520
Speaker 1: to avoid legal troubles. This is not strictly true. Horner

2063
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:37,120
Speaker 1: got in trouble for his work on Honey I Shrunk

2064
01:56:37,200 --> 01:56:39,960
Speaker 1: the Kids, the main theme of which incorporates cues from

2065
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:43,600
Speaker 1: the score to Federico Fellini's nineteen seventy three film and

2066
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 1: record by Nino Rota, and Raymond Scott's piece Powerhouse, regularly

2067
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,640
Speaker 1: heard in Looney Tunes. If you're gonna steal from from

2068
01:56:52,640 --> 01:56:55,080
Speaker 1: another composer, maybe don't make it one of the most

2069
01:56:55,200 --> 01:56:59,680
Speaker 1: common Looney Tunes musical cues you puts. This led Raymond

2070
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:02,680
Speaker 1: Scott the state to threaten the lawsuit against Disney, who

2071
01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:06,600
Speaker 1: paid an undisclosed settlement out of court. Oh, I shouldn't

2072
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:09,440
Speaker 1: have called him a Putts. He died. However, history has

2073
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:11,879
Speaker 1: taken a kinder view of him following the mega success

2074
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:13,920
Speaker 1: of Titanic, not to mention his death in a single

2075
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: occupant plane crash in the Los Padres National Forest. I

2076
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:22,800
Speaker 1: forgot that he died. Um back to Titanic, James Cameron

2077
01:57:22,840 --> 01:57:28,600
Speaker 1: invited James Horner over and screamed, screamed and screamed at

2078
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:36,560
Speaker 1: him for hours, like he did to an ailing Stanley

2079
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:42,520
Speaker 1: Kubrick at the iconic director's home that he invited himself

2080
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 1: over to. Cameron invited Horner over and screened thirty six

2081
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:50,280
Speaker 1: hours of footage for him. Horner supposedly wrote the main

2082
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:53,160
Speaker 1: themes for the movie in one night, heavily influenced by

2083
01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 1: Irish folk music, paying tribute to the ship's Irish heritage.

2084
01:57:56,960 --> 01:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Titanic had been built in Belfast in Northern Ireland, stopped

2085
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:02,440
Speaker 1: Queenstown on the southern coast of Ireland. It's its final

2086
01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:05,520
Speaker 1: port of call, and there were many Irish immigrants on board.

2087
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:08,919
Speaker 1: It wasn't long before James Corner remembered that James Cameron

2088
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:12,320
Speaker 1: was a nightmare to work with, though He told Entertainment Weekly,

2089
01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:15,800
Speaker 1: we'd lock the movie, then release dates would shift and

2090
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:18,760
Speaker 1: Jim would fine tune it, so I'd fine tune. Then

2091
01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:21,000
Speaker 1: we'd lock it and the dates would shift again, and

2092
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,280
Speaker 1: he'd fine tune, and I'd say, God, I'm gonna have

2093
01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:26,400
Speaker 1: to do this queue six hundred times. The other problem

2094
01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:28,920
Speaker 1: with the closing credits. Given all the people who worked

2095
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 1: on this three hour epic, the credits were long, something

2096
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:35,440
Speaker 1: like eight minutes, and this was an issue for James Horner,

2097
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:38,000
Speaker 1: who later said, my job is to keep the audience

2098
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:40,080
Speaker 1: in their seats and not let them off the hook.

2099
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:42,880
Speaker 1: It's my personal belief. I should never let anyone put

2100
01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 1: their coats on. Okay, they have to be in it

2101
01:58:46,360 --> 01:58:48,640
Speaker 1: as long as they can be. As I started writing

2102
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:50,760
Speaker 1: this eight minute sequence, I was saying, how am I

2103
01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:54,200
Speaker 1: going to do this just another orchestra reprise? It had

2104
01:58:54,200 --> 01:58:57,440
Speaker 1: to be very intimate, very emotional. His solution was to

2105
01:58:57,480 --> 01:59:00,520
Speaker 1: have a full fledged song, but Cameron was dead set

2106
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:03,560
Speaker 1: in Horror's words, against a love song over the closing credits.

2107
01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:06,720
Speaker 1: He felt strongly that he only wanted instrumentals for the soundtrack,

2108
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:09,280
Speaker 1: believing that a pop song would seem a bit tone deaf.

2109
01:59:09,880 --> 01:59:12,120
Speaker 1: He compared it to commissioning a pop single for the

2110
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:16,320
Speaker 1: soundtrack to Schindler's List never won for a subtle similar

2111
01:59:17,040 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 1: Horner later told Empire magazine James did not want it

2112
01:59:20,040 --> 01:59:22,400
Speaker 1: to be a Hollywood movie that had violins soaring away

2113
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:24,560
Speaker 1: around it and a song pasted in at the end,

2114
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:29,280
Speaker 1: which as you put in narrator voice was what he got.

2115
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:34,680
Speaker 1: So Horner furtively recruited lyricist Will Jennings to put words

2116
01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 1: to Titanic's main instrumental theme, and then he called in

2117
01:59:38,440 --> 01:59:45,200
Speaker 1: a favor from his friend Selene Dion of the Canadian Dions. Oh.

2118
01:59:45,440 --> 01:59:48,680
Speaker 1: Will Jennings wrote the lyrics that tears in Heaven. Oh

2119
01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: he was very what prolific gentleman? Oh he wrote lyrics

2120
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:59,560
Speaker 1: to Higher Love by Steve Winwood. Higher enough bangs looks

2121
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:02,360
Speaker 1: like we ate it by Barry Manilow Up where we

2122
02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:07,840
Speaker 1: belonged by officer and a gentleman? Who Will Jennings this

2123
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:11,320
Speaker 1: way again? My Dion Warwick? Yeah? Did we almost have

2124
02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 1: it all? Whinney Houston? Wow? God, being a lyricist must

2125
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:17,520
Speaker 1: be just the God. What a what a job man?

2126
02:00:17,600 --> 02:00:19,640
Speaker 1: You come in, somebody's already done the hard work and

2127
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:22,560
Speaker 1: you just spout a bunch of horse cliches over it

2128
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:28,360
Speaker 1: and get half the money. Anyway, if anyone wants me

2129
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:35,760
Speaker 1: to write lyrics to here James Cameron's score, um do.

2130
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:37,480
Speaker 1: He called in a favor from his friends lying Dion

2131
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 1: to record a vocal demo in the spring of later

2132
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:42,680
Speaker 1: telling Billboard she started singing the song and it was

2133
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:45,600
Speaker 1: just electrifying. By the end of it, we were all

2134
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:49,120
Speaker 1: emotionally shook up. She started crying while singing it two

2135
02:00:49,160 --> 02:00:51,760
Speaker 1: thirds of the way through the song, and then everybody

2136
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:54,360
Speaker 1: in the room was crying. She was singing it like

2137
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:57,120
Speaker 1: her life depended on it. At one point she had

2138
02:00:57,160 --> 02:01:00,920
Speaker 1: to stop singing and compose herself, but she reportedly nailed

2139
02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:03,160
Speaker 1: it in a single take that it was supposed to

2140
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 1: be a demo. The emotion in the tune was so

2141
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:07,440
Speaker 1: perfect that it ended up being the master take heard

2142
02:01:07,560 --> 02:01:10,720
Speaker 1: on the soundtrack. But Horner waited for the right time

2143
02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:13,040
Speaker 1: to present the song to James Cameron. He wanted Cameron

2144
02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:14,920
Speaker 1: to be at a point where he was quote comfortable

2145
02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:17,720
Speaker 1: with the film, as Horner were called an Empire magazine.

2146
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:19,919
Speaker 1: The day finally came when I played it for him.

2147
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:22,080
Speaker 1: He played it for his family, who loved it, but

2148
02:01:22,160 --> 02:01:27,280
Speaker 1: he was still not convinced. James Cameron's like, son and

2149
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:29,200
Speaker 1: children like dad, we really love the songs. He's like,

2150
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:33,320
Speaker 1: what do you know, Well, we have to imagine that

2151
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:36,480
Speaker 1: the song was produced by Walter Afanasy. If the code

2152
02:01:37,280 --> 02:01:40,200
Speaker 1: of all the one for Christmas, as you and targeted

2153
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:44,320
Speaker 1: victim of Mariah Carey's concerned attempt to write him out

2154
02:01:44,320 --> 02:01:48,720
Speaker 1: of that song. Horner said it took him Cameron another

2155
02:01:48,840 --> 02:01:51,200
Speaker 1: month and a half to be convinced. We took it

2156
02:01:51,240 --> 02:01:53,480
Speaker 1: to New York and previewed the song, and the audience

2157
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:55,840
Speaker 1: was in tears and tatters at the end. That's when

2158
02:01:55,880 --> 02:01:57,560
Speaker 1: he decided the song would be in the movie, and

2159
02:01:57,560 --> 02:01:59,760
Speaker 1: when he realized it was a cinematic tool and not

2160
02:01:59,840 --> 02:02:02,200
Speaker 1: a gimmick. He had to see it with an audience

2161
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:04,320
Speaker 1: to believe that, Wait, you made I can I can

2162
02:02:04,400 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 1: hurt people with this emotionally, Oh great, okay, cut print

2163
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:14,520
Speaker 1: James Cameron to a crying Celine Dion. Can we go again?

2164
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:18,440
Speaker 1: There's also a good chance that Cameron wanted to appease

2165
02:02:18,480 --> 02:02:22,160
Speaker 1: anxious studio executives who would appreciated the added bonus of

2166
02:02:22,200 --> 02:02:25,360
Speaker 1: a hit song, and James had a lot of anxious

2167
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:30,000
Speaker 1: executives on his ass. Yes, cost overruns and extended shooting

2168
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:32,760
Speaker 1: schedules made a lot of people up Paramount and Fox

2169
02:02:33,120 --> 02:02:37,640
Speaker 1: extremely nervous. Early early, early projected costs for Titanic were

2170
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:41,560
Speaker 1: seventy five million. Paramount and twentieth Century then joined forces

2171
02:02:41,560 --> 02:02:44,320
Speaker 1: to pony up a hundred and ten million and wanted

2172
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:48,920
Speaker 1: it ready by July, but costs had balloon to two

2173
02:02:49,040 --> 02:02:52,400
Speaker 1: hundred million, or in other words, twenty two times the

2174
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:55,960
Speaker 1: cost of the original ship, making it the most expensive

2175
02:02:56,040 --> 02:02:59,600
Speaker 1: film ever made, and making matters worse, it wasn't ready

2176
02:02:59,640 --> 02:03:05,360
Speaker 1: until December, five months later. Typical filming schedules can run

2177
02:03:05,400 --> 02:03:08,080
Speaker 1: anywhere from thirty to ninety days, depending on the scope

2178
02:03:08,120 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 1: or complexity of a film. The original schedule for Titanic

2179
02:03:11,720 --> 02:03:13,560
Speaker 1: I've seen it was either a hundred and thirty five

2180
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:16,360
Speaker 1: or a hundred thirty eight days of principal photography. In

2181
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 1: the end, it took an extra twenty two days to

2182
02:03:18,360 --> 02:03:22,120
Speaker 1: finish up, or about fift longer than expected. And remember,

2183
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:24,480
Speaker 1: this was a love story with a sad ending, not

2184
02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 1: a superhero movie that was certain to score big at

2185
02:03:26,840 --> 02:03:29,120
Speaker 1: the box office. In other words, it was kind of

2186
02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:32,919
Speaker 1: a bummer. Plus it was long, three hours and fourteen

2187
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:36,560
Speaker 1: minutes or sometimes fifteen in either case, much longer than

2188
02:03:36,600 --> 02:03:40,440
Speaker 1: your standard popcorn flick. When studioheads insisted on trimming it

2189
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:42,760
Speaker 1: so the theaters could fit in more screenings per day

2190
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:45,760
Speaker 1: and make more money, Cameron reportedly responded by telling the

2191
02:03:45,800 --> 02:03:48,400
Speaker 1: head of Fox Bill Mechanic, who visited him on the

2192
02:03:48,440 --> 02:03:50,280
Speaker 1: set at two in the morning, if you want to

2193
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:52,400
Speaker 1: cut my film, you'll have to fire me. And to

2194
02:03:52,480 --> 02:03:56,400
Speaker 1: fire me, you'll have to kill me. Then Cameron stormed

2195
02:03:56,400 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: off the sand. Why did he make that threat so much?

2196
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:03,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, you'll have to kill me because it's effective.

2197
02:04:03,840 --> 02:04:05,680
Speaker 1: Maybe he's a big cool hand, Luke fan, I don't know.

2198
02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,160
Speaker 1: You can have my large boat when you pride for

2199
02:04:08,240 --> 02:04:11,920
Speaker 1: my gold dead. But Cameron knew he had the studio

2200
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:14,160
Speaker 1: over barrel because he knew that they knew who was

2201
02:04:14,200 --> 02:04:16,360
Speaker 1: the only person on the planet who could manage this

2202
02:04:16,480 --> 02:04:19,120
Speaker 1: production and put all the pieces together, so they kind

2203
02:04:19,160 --> 02:04:21,360
Speaker 1: of had them do what he said. Uh As you

2204
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:24,360
Speaker 1: can probably guess, Cameron had very little patients for any

2205
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:28,240
Speaker 1: studio brass he felt weren't supporting him. Bill Mechanic likened

2206
02:04:28,280 --> 02:04:30,520
Speaker 1: it to quote, being in the trenches and your infantry

2207
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 1: made is shooting at you, even if you're the only

2208
02:04:32,480 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 1: one there who can save his life. Even though he

2209
02:04:34,760 --> 02:04:37,640
Speaker 1: knew I was on his side, nobody's ever on his side.

2210
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:41,120
Speaker 1: Just I want I want a listical. I want a

2211
02:04:41,160 --> 02:04:46,879
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed listical of James Cameron's drastically inappropriate simile is ranked

2212
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:53,040
Speaker 1: Oh even tell this next one? Then? Well, yeah, while

2213
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:55,760
Speaker 1: we're on that, Cameron told a producer to deliver the

2214
02:04:55,760 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 1: following message to a top executive at Fox. Tell your

2215
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:01,240
Speaker 1: friend he's getting in the ass, and if he would

2216
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:06,440
Speaker 1: stop squirming, it wouldn't hurt so much. God, oh what,

2217
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 1: but he gets results now. In shooting a typical action

2218
02:05:12,440 --> 02:05:15,480
Speaker 1: blockbuster like Batman Forever or the Bond movie, to Bar

2219
02:05:15,640 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 1: Never Dies costs an average of a hundred thousand, maybe

2220
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:21,960
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty thousand dollars a day. Titanic average between

2221
02:05:21,960 --> 02:05:24,640
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty five thousand and three hundred thousand

2222
02:05:24,680 --> 02:05:27,640
Speaker 1: dollars a day, and this was after construction ended on

2223
02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:30,720
Speaker 1: the brand new forty acre movie studio that Cameron had

2224
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,960
Speaker 1: built to film it, which costs something like twenty three million.

2225
02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:38,000
Speaker 1: Speaking to The l A Times, Cameron's first assistant director

2226
02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:40,120
Speaker 1: had this to stay of the film's two hundred million

2227
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:43,440
Speaker 1: dollar budget. It was just too big. I've been doing

2228
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:45,560
Speaker 1: this for over twelve years and I still can't get

2229
02:05:45,600 --> 02:05:47,760
Speaker 1: over the size of this. There should be a law

2230
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:51,400
Speaker 1: against making movies over a hundred and eighty million Jesus,

2231
02:05:51,440 --> 02:05:54,320
Speaker 1: you can make eighteen Woody Allen movies for that. How

2232
02:05:54,360 --> 02:05:57,600
Speaker 1: many sling blades could you make? About forty A hundred

2233
02:05:57,600 --> 02:05:59,920
Speaker 1: and eighty million is the budget for education in the

2234
02:06:00,040 --> 02:06:04,000
Speaker 1: state of who knows where I find that obscene, echoing

2235
02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:08,800
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet's sentiment. There, Ah, I love this story too.

2236
02:06:08,960 --> 02:06:11,400
Speaker 1: At one point, the studio sent the producer named Marty

2237
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:14,640
Speaker 1: Cats to try to get the spending under control. Cats,

2238
02:06:14,680 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 1: aware that this was a very sensitive situation, asked Cameron

2239
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:22,160
Speaker 1: to consider him a friend. Cameron responded, friends, friends, I

2240
02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:26,520
Speaker 1: don't need friends. You're not my friend, Cats countered, I'm

2241
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:29,200
Speaker 1: the only friend this production has at the studio. We're

2242
02:06:29,240 --> 02:06:31,880
Speaker 1: in trouble. They don't know when the bleeding is gonna stop.

2243
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:34,680
Speaker 1: And Cats picks up the story. He looks at me

2244
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:36,760
Speaker 1: with a twinkle in his eye and says, a friend

2245
02:06:36,800 --> 02:06:38,960
Speaker 1: of the picture is good. But by the way, our

2246
02:06:39,000 --> 02:06:42,960
Speaker 1: little conversation here just cost a hundred fifty tops. And

2247
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:45,240
Speaker 1: with that, Cameron turned around and went back to work.

2248
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:49,080
Speaker 1: But I think my favorite story of Nervous Execs is

2249
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:51,880
Speaker 1: when they made the first teaser trailer. The film was

2250
02:06:51,920 --> 02:06:54,440
Speaker 1: so behind schedule, but none of the special effects were ready,

2251
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:56,040
Speaker 1: so the best they could do was have a short

2252
02:06:56,080 --> 02:06:59,840
Speaker 1: clip of Old Rose narrating about the necklace. This was

2253
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:03,800
Speaker 1: so underwhelming that one Fox executive vomited over his own

2254
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:08,960
Speaker 1: shoes after screening it. Now, at one point, James Cameron

2255
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:12,280
Speaker 1: ran into Fox CEO Rupert Murdoch and told him, I

2256
02:07:12,320 --> 02:07:14,520
Speaker 1: guess I'm not your favorite person in the world, but

2257
02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:17,120
Speaker 1: the movie is going to be good, and Murdoch replied

2258
02:07:17,280 --> 02:07:20,440
Speaker 1: it better be a damn site better than just good yea.

2259
02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 1: And there's another great Murdoch's story that we discussed during

2260
02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:27,400
Speaker 1: our Air Force One episode. A long time ago. Rupert

2261
02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:30,040
Speaker 1: Murdoch demanded to see an early cut of Titanic just

2262
02:07:30,080 --> 02:07:33,120
Speaker 1: to see where all his money was going, and apparently

2263
02:07:33,160 --> 02:07:36,800
Speaker 1: they delivered a faulty, defective print to Rupert Murdoch's private

2264
02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:40,720
Speaker 1: screening room. I'm theorizing that this might have been on purpose,

2265
02:07:40,760 --> 02:07:43,800
Speaker 1: because James Cameron either wasn't ready to show it or

2266
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:47,160
Speaker 1: just didn't want any meddling from anyone, But in any case,

2267
02:07:47,200 --> 02:07:50,560
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch instead washed, of all things, an advanced cut

2268
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:54,360
Speaker 1: of another twentieth century Fox movie, I think air Force One,

2269
02:07:54,560 --> 02:07:57,560
Speaker 1: and Murdoch loved it. In fact, he loved it so

2270
02:07:57,640 --> 02:07:59,600
Speaker 1: much that when he finally saw a completed kind of

2271
02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:02,400
Speaker 1: titan An, the first thing he said was, it's good,

2272
02:08:02,440 --> 02:08:05,720
Speaker 1: but it's no air Force one. Can you imagine how

2273
02:08:05,800 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 1: galling that must have been for James Cameron. I love

2274
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:10,560
Speaker 1: that so much. I like to think about it every

2275
02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:15,120
Speaker 1: day when I wake all at all. Exacutives feared the

2276
02:08:15,160 --> 02:08:18,080
Speaker 1: movie would be as big a disaster, pregnant pause as

2277
02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:21,720
Speaker 1: the Titanic itself. Things got so bad that Cameron forfeited

2278
02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:25,000
Speaker 1: his eight million dollar director salary and percentage of the

2279
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:27,760
Speaker 1: gross as a token of confidence to trying to lay

2280
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:30,520
Speaker 1: budget concerns at the studio as a good faith measure.

2281
02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:33,200
Speaker 1: As he told Howard Stern, we told them a hundred

2282
02:08:33,200 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: and twenty million, and that's what we thought it was

2283
02:08:34,840 --> 02:08:37,080
Speaker 1: going to cost. That's why I wound up giving them

2284
02:08:37,080 --> 02:08:39,880
Speaker 1: back all my money, because I said, guys, I don't

2285
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:41,240
Speaker 1: want you to think we lied to you just so

2286
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:43,680
Speaker 1: we could get you to make this movie. The studio

2287
02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:45,680
Speaker 1: was so worried about all the money that they had

2288
02:08:45,680 --> 02:08:51,520
Speaker 1: sunk into Titanic that they also demanded profit participation points

2289
02:08:51,560 --> 02:08:55,320
Speaker 1: on his next movie too. Upon hearing this, Cameron says

2290
02:08:55,320 --> 02:08:58,440
Speaker 1: he told the head of Fox, you made yourself. Do

2291
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:01,640
Speaker 1: you think he meant that you might yourself because my

2292
02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:04,440
Speaker 1: movie will flop? Or you may yourself as in I

2293
02:09:04,520 --> 02:09:07,080
Speaker 1: cordially invite you to go for yourself. Yes, I think

2294
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:10,440
Speaker 1: the ladder. Yes? Okay. What was his next movie after?

2295
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:15,000
Speaker 1: Was it Avatar? Yeah? Jesus uh. It seemed like a

2296
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:19,200
Speaker 1: mathematical impossibility to make back the studio's money. As shipbuilder

2297
02:09:19,240 --> 02:09:21,760
Speaker 1: Thomas Andrews says in the film, she Will sink it

2298
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:25,800
Speaker 1: is a mathematical certainty. Fox calculated that even if Titanic

2299
02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:29,640
Speaker 1: outperformed the most successful three hour movie in memory, Dances

2300
02:09:29,680 --> 02:09:32,280
Speaker 1: with Wolves, which won the Academy Award for Best Picture

2301
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:38,080
Speaker 1: in uh, the studio would still lose seventy million dollars.

2302
02:09:38,160 --> 02:09:40,920
Speaker 1: To be a success, Titanic needed to repeat its twenty

2303
02:09:40,920 --> 02:09:44,440
Speaker 1: eight million opening weekend ticket sales and stay the number

2304
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,760
Speaker 1: one movie in America for many, many, many, many many

2305
02:09:47,840 --> 02:09:50,440
Speaker 1: weeks in a row, in a way no movie had

2306
02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:54,400
Speaker 1: in nearly a decade. Narrator voice it would. He would

2307
02:09:54,440 --> 02:09:56,120
Speaker 1: say later that in the six month lead up to

2308
02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:57,800
Speaker 1: the release, he was certain that they were about to

2309
02:09:57,800 --> 02:10:00,880
Speaker 1: lose a hundred million dollars, he told e W. We

2310
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:04,280
Speaker 1: wrapped in early March, and the next few months were

2311
02:10:04,360 --> 02:10:06,680
Speaker 1: rough because we were getting heavily shelled by the press

2312
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:08,600
Speaker 1: that thought we were the biggest idiots in the history

2313
02:10:08,640 --> 02:10:11,400
Speaker 1: of Hollywood. Titanic was going to be the next water World.

2314
02:10:11,720 --> 02:10:14,120
Speaker 1: The film studios had me utterly convinced that there was

2315
02:10:14,160 --> 02:10:16,720
Speaker 1: no conceivable way that the film would be profitable. So

2316
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:18,440
Speaker 1: the only thing I had left to cling to was

2317
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:21,400
Speaker 1: that we would make a quality movie, but even that

2318
02:10:21,480 --> 02:10:23,840
Speaker 1: was in doubt. He admitted at the time that while

2319
02:10:23,840 --> 02:10:26,920
Speaker 1: he feared Titanic would be all things to everyone or

2320
02:10:27,080 --> 02:10:30,320
Speaker 1: nothing to anybody. Not enough action for the action crowd,

2321
02:10:30,560 --> 02:10:34,560
Speaker 1: not enough romance for the romance crowd, a chocolate covered cheeseburger,

2322
02:10:35,240 --> 02:10:41,280
Speaker 1: okay uh. As he edited, he had a razor blade

2323
02:10:41,320 --> 02:10:44,480
Speaker 1: taped onto the screen, which the note saying, use in

2324
02:10:44,520 --> 02:10:47,800
Speaker 1: case the film sucks. And to clarify he did not

2325
02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:51,160
Speaker 1: mean to edit the film, as he said, when everybody

2326
02:10:51,200 --> 02:10:54,680
Speaker 1: everybody doubts you, it's hard not to doubt yourself. But

2327
02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:57,360
Speaker 1: I was looking at for the footage saying, guys, I'm

2328
02:10:57,360 --> 02:11:00,360
Speaker 1: seeing a good movie here. An early version was about

2329
02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:03,080
Speaker 1: thirty five forty minutes longer, but he said that it

2330
02:11:03,120 --> 02:11:06,960
Speaker 1: was quote soggy and too long. Yes, James, it was

2331
02:11:07,040 --> 02:11:15,880
Speaker 1: four hours too many water. I made some draconian decisions

2332
02:11:15,960 --> 02:11:19,640
Speaker 1: and chopped out a subplot that ultimately transformed the film,

2333
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:23,160
Speaker 1: which you speculate was the romantic subplot between Bill Paxton's

2334
02:11:23,320 --> 02:11:28,320
Speaker 1: character and Rose's granddaughter. Makes sense. Cameron also had problems

2335
02:11:28,320 --> 02:11:31,280
Speaker 1: coming from outside the studio as well. All the horror

2336
02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:33,879
Speaker 1: stories from the set of Titanic, not to mention the delays,

2337
02:11:33,960 --> 02:11:37,600
Speaker 1: has resulted in some seriously bad press as a result.

2338
02:11:37,640 --> 02:11:39,880
Speaker 1: From the very start, the critics were out for blood

2339
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,360
Speaker 1: slamming the movie in the press for a full year

2340
02:11:42,440 --> 02:11:46,240
Speaker 1: before it even come out. Stories of Camera's dictatorial attitudes

2341
02:11:46,280 --> 02:11:48,040
Speaker 1: on a set meant that a decent amount of the

2342
02:11:48,040 --> 02:11:51,320
Speaker 1: trashing was directed at him personally. He later said in

2343
02:11:51,320 --> 02:11:53,680
Speaker 1: an op ed in The Hollywood Reporter, we were being

2344
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:57,440
Speaker 1: pummeled relentlessly in the press, especially in the industry trade papers,

2345
02:11:57,600 --> 02:12:00,880
Speaker 1: about epic cost overr owns, set safety, delivery dates, and

2346
02:12:00,920 --> 02:12:04,360
Speaker 1: just about everything. We were the biggest morons in Hollywood history,

2347
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:06,920
Speaker 1: and the press had the long knives out sharpening them.

2348
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:09,200
Speaker 1: As we approached our release. Critics said it was a

2349
02:12:09,240 --> 02:12:13,360
Speaker 1: bloated leviathan, a behemoth, and a tiresome epic that, according

2350
02:12:13,400 --> 02:12:17,560
Speaker 1: to Washington Posts, death and Howe left viewers quote thinking

2351
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:22,400
Speaker 1: that unpartable, thought okay, sink already. Camera and as he's

2352
02:12:22,440 --> 02:12:25,000
Speaker 1: wont to do, did not take this lying down and

2353
02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 1: thought back by giving numerous interviews, writing letters to print media,

2354
02:12:29,400 --> 02:12:31,640
Speaker 1: and even taking out ads in the trade press to

2355
02:12:31,720 --> 02:12:34,520
Speaker 1: present his side of the story. And he especially went

2356
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:37,240
Speaker 1: hard for l A Times critic Kenneth Turn, who, to

2357
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:40,200
Speaker 1: be fair, had come hard for him first with a

2358
02:12:40,200 --> 02:12:43,640
Speaker 1: particularly scathing review. He writes, just as the hubris of

2359
02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:47,680
Speaker 1: headstrong shipbuilders who insisted that the Titanic was unsinkable led

2360
02:12:47,720 --> 02:12:52,200
Speaker 1: to an unparalleled maritime disaster, so Camera's overweening pride has

2361
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:56,240
Speaker 1: come and necessarily close to capsizing this project, calling it

2362
02:12:56,280 --> 02:13:00,880
Speaker 1: a hackneyed, completely derivative copy of old Hollywood romance. And

2363
02:13:00,920 --> 02:13:02,960
Speaker 1: then he would go on to slam the Titanic in

2364
02:13:03,080 --> 02:13:06,400
Speaker 1: three subsequent interviews. How how many reviews do you need

2365
02:13:06,440 --> 02:13:09,440
Speaker 1: to when you meane hours and fifteen minutes in the

2366
02:13:09,440 --> 02:13:13,080
Speaker 1: biggest movie in the country and in theaters for like

2367
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:16,080
Speaker 1: nine months. Probably a lot of the additional ones were like, wait,

2368
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:18,760
Speaker 1: why are people still going to see this movie? I

2369
02:13:18,800 --> 02:13:22,760
Speaker 1: said it was bad, talking about like grasping in your

2370
02:13:22,760 --> 02:13:28,480
Speaker 1: own obsolescence. James Cameron responded in characteristic fashion with a

2371
02:13:28,600 --> 02:13:32,200
Speaker 1: twelve hundred word open letter to The Times, which featured

2372
02:13:32,240 --> 02:13:35,400
Speaker 1: the memorable line forget about Clinton, how do we impeach

2373
02:13:35,520 --> 02:13:40,200
Speaker 1: Kenneth turn? He added, poor Kenny he sees himself as

2374
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:43,400
Speaker 1: the lone voice crying in the wilderness, righteous but not

2375
02:13:43,520 --> 02:13:47,120
Speaker 1: heated by the blind and dumb, great unwashed around him.

2376
02:13:47,160 --> 02:13:49,000
Speaker 1: It must be a great burden to be cursed with

2377
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:52,200
Speaker 1: such clear vision when you're misguided, flock break past you

2378
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:57,840
Speaker 1: like Lemmings, unmindful. I mean basically what we just said,

2379
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:01,800
Speaker 1: but so much more savage. This beef became a national

2380
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:05,200
Speaker 1: news story, and years later Camon remained piste off by

2381
02:14:05,240 --> 02:14:08,560
Speaker 1: the incident, saying what bothered me was that somehow he

2382
02:14:08,640 --> 02:14:12,160
Speaker 1: decided to vilify Titanic as an example of everything wrong

2383
02:14:12,200 --> 02:14:19,320
Speaker 1: in Hollywood. This is so gross. I'm paraphrasing this. Look

2384
02:14:19,360 --> 02:14:22,120
Speaker 1: into my eyes as you read it is this phrase

2385
02:14:22,160 --> 02:14:25,040
Speaker 1: gross is made to my core. Excuse me, you can't

2386
02:14:25,040 --> 02:14:27,680
Speaker 1: take the one film that had the hair on its balls.

2387
02:14:27,760 --> 02:14:30,520
Speaker 1: You to go out and be three hours long, and

2388
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:33,320
Speaker 1: be a mainstream picture that didn't cow tow to every

2389
02:14:33,360 --> 02:14:36,000
Speaker 1: so called piece of mainstream knowledge of what you have

2390
02:14:36,040 --> 02:14:38,640
Speaker 1: to do to survive, that involved itself in things that

2391
02:14:38,720 --> 02:14:41,839
Speaker 1: every studio executive in town would have run screaming from,

2392
02:14:42,040 --> 02:14:44,960
Speaker 1: and say that it's emblematic of everything that's wrong in Hollywood,

2393
02:14:45,160 --> 02:14:47,760
Speaker 1: and do it over and over. You just can't do that.

2394
02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:50,160
Speaker 1: There's one newspaper in this city that sits on the

2395
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:53,480
Speaker 1: breakfast table of everyone I work with the l A times.

2396
02:14:53,640 --> 02:14:56,840
Speaker 1: You're attacking me in my house, and Cameron added, in

2397
02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:59,960
Speaker 1: one particularly revealing quote, I'm going to fight back. It's

2398
02:15:00,080 --> 02:15:02,200
Speaker 1: that's simple. If you did it tomorrow, I do the

2399
02:15:02,240 --> 02:15:05,520
Speaker 1: same thing. I'm a crusty Canadian farmer at heart. You

2400
02:15:05,600 --> 02:15:08,600
Speaker 1: come onto our land, we put some buckshot in your ass,

2401
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:11,280
Speaker 1: disturbingly close to saying we'll put a boot in your ass.

2402
02:15:11,320 --> 02:15:15,680
Speaker 1: It's the American way. Well. Titanic had its premiere at

2403
02:15:15,720 --> 02:15:20,120
Speaker 1: the Tokyo Film Festival in November, where police were needed

2404
02:15:20,160 --> 02:15:23,560
Speaker 1: to control the thousands of hysterical girls surrounding the theater.

2405
02:15:24,120 --> 02:15:28,240
Speaker 1: One screamed, Leo, I'm ready to die for you. I

2406
02:15:28,280 --> 02:15:31,040
Speaker 1: guess she was a Romeo and Juliet fan. This voted

2407
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:36,040
Speaker 1: well for the wide release on December. This sounds like

2408
02:15:36,280 --> 02:15:39,520
Speaker 1: a joke, but it was just a modest success at first,

2409
02:15:39,680 --> 02:15:43,440
Speaker 1: barely winning its opening weekend with a point six million

2410
02:15:43,480 --> 02:15:48,720
Speaker 1: dollar take. But then it just didn't stop. It was

2411
02:15:48,760 --> 02:15:52,120
Speaker 1: a marathon, not a sprint. The highest single grossing day

2412
02:15:52,240 --> 02:15:56,160
Speaker 1: was in its sixtieth day of release, Valentine's Day, appropriately enough,

2413
02:15:56,240 --> 02:15:59,680
Speaker 1: which just doesn't happen. You don't have your biggest day

2414
02:15:59,720 --> 02:16:02,640
Speaker 1: to months into a film's release. Cameron said that they

2415
02:16:02,720 --> 02:16:04,760
Speaker 1: learned in late January, about a month and a half

2416
02:16:04,760 --> 02:16:06,280
Speaker 1: after the film was released, that it was going to

2417
02:16:06,360 --> 02:16:08,440
Speaker 1: break even, and he said that was the David he

2418
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:11,960
Speaker 1: popped champagne because he said that had always seemed like

2419
02:16:12,000 --> 02:16:14,200
Speaker 1: an unattainable goal. You never thought it would break even.

2420
02:16:14,960 --> 02:16:17,440
Speaker 1: People not only told their friends to see this movie,

2421
02:16:17,480 --> 02:16:19,920
Speaker 1: but they went to see it over and over again themselves.

2422
02:16:20,320 --> 02:16:23,520
Speaker 1: The normal repeat viewing rate for a blockbuster theatrical films

2423
02:16:23,560 --> 02:16:27,280
Speaker 1: between two and five. The repeat rate for Titanic was

2424
02:16:27,360 --> 02:16:31,879
Speaker 1: twenty percent. A month after the release. Fox estimated, somehow,

2425
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:33,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how they got this figure that seven

2426
02:16:33,720 --> 02:16:37,600
Speaker 1: percent of teenage girls had seen it twice. In March,

2427
02:16:38,720 --> 02:16:41,240
Speaker 1: Associated Press ran a cute story about a twelve year

2428
02:16:41,240 --> 02:16:43,880
Speaker 1: old Italian girl named Gloria who had gone to Sea

2429
02:16:43,959 --> 02:16:46,720
Speaker 1: Titanic at the only movie theater in her small town

2430
02:16:47,360 --> 02:16:50,640
Speaker 1: every single night of its release, and planned to until

2431
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:53,600
Speaker 1: it left the theaters. At the time of the report,

2432
02:16:53,720 --> 02:16:56,240
Speaker 1: she had seen it fifty times and still wasn't tired

2433
02:16:56,280 --> 02:16:59,080
Speaker 1: of it. The theater no longer charged her admission and

2434
02:16:59,160 --> 02:17:02,760
Speaker 1: even saved her favorite seat for her every night. Hi

2435
02:17:02,879 --> 02:17:06,000
Speaker 1: go tell us about the money. Enough enough of all

2436
02:17:06,040 --> 02:17:09,160
Speaker 1: these cute stories of adolescent love. Tell us about the cold,

2437
02:17:09,480 --> 02:17:14,760
Speaker 1: filthy lucra. Titanic held, and probably until Avatar to the

2438
02:17:14,800 --> 02:17:18,360
Speaker 1: Way of Water, holds the record for the longest theatrical run,

2439
02:17:18,920 --> 02:17:22,120
Speaker 1: staying in theaters for nearly ten months. It was still

2440
02:17:22,560 --> 02:17:24,480
Speaker 1: it was still in theaters when it came out on

2441
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:29,320
Speaker 1: VHS on September one. Screenings of the movie were so

2442
02:17:29,360 --> 02:17:32,760
Speaker 1: popular that Paramount had to send replacement film reels out

2443
02:17:32,800 --> 02:17:36,360
Speaker 1: to theaters when the originals wore out. Titanic was the

2444
02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:40,360
Speaker 1: top grossing film for seven sixteen consecutive weeks, and became

2445
02:17:40,400 --> 02:17:44,120
Speaker 1: the first film to gross over a billion dollars. Kate

2446
02:17:44,160 --> 02:17:46,480
Speaker 1: and Leo were apparently so green that they didn't know

2447
02:17:46,520 --> 02:17:49,560
Speaker 1: this was a big deal, with Leo saying a billion dollars,

2448
02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:54,000
Speaker 1: So that's good, I thought, And maybe he was being sarcastic.

2449
02:17:54,080 --> 02:17:57,360
Speaker 1: I don't know it is because even even the newbies seems,

2450
02:17:57,440 --> 02:18:00,760
Speaker 1: you know, anything with billions with a B he's good.

2451
02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:05,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he might be kind of an idiot, remember

2452
02:18:05,400 --> 02:18:11,080
Speaker 1: the fart thing. The box office receipts were even more impressive,

2453
02:18:11,120 --> 02:18:13,720
Speaker 1: considering the three hour film could only be shown three

2454
02:18:13,760 --> 02:18:16,840
Speaker 1: times a day instead of the usual four. It became

2455
02:18:16,879 --> 02:18:20,320
Speaker 1: the highest grossing movie in US history, shattering the record

2456
02:18:20,560 --> 02:18:24,720
Speaker 1: that had been held by Star Wars A New Hope Ah,

2457
02:18:25,240 --> 02:18:28,320
Speaker 1: which crushed ten year old me as. I mean, George

2458
02:18:28,360 --> 02:18:30,879
Speaker 1: Lucas took out an add variety where Han and Leah

2459
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:34,520
Speaker 1: posed like Jack and rose as in public congratulations to

2460
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:38,520
Speaker 1: James Cameron was magnanimous of him, something James Cameron would

2461
02:18:38,640 --> 02:18:44,360
Speaker 1: never ever do. Just imagine James Cameron taking out a

2462
02:18:44,360 --> 02:18:46,400
Speaker 1: full page added variety that has like one of the

2463
02:18:46,480 --> 02:18:52,200
Speaker 1: nov like pushing Jack into the water when Avatar just

2464
02:18:52,240 --> 02:18:59,840
Speaker 1: despite himself and his own movie it was it would

2465
02:18:59,840 --> 02:19:02,880
Speaker 1: have It was the highest grossing film of all time

2466
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:06,879
Speaker 1: from until two thousand and ten, when James Cameron surpassed

2467
02:19:06,879 --> 02:19:12,200
Speaker 1: it with his own film. His next film, Avatar, now

2468
02:19:12,200 --> 02:19:14,400
Speaker 1: in Titanic, sits at the number three spot on the

2469
02:19:14,480 --> 02:19:19,560
Speaker 1: list with two point one billion dollars. Avatar is still

2470
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:23,320
Speaker 1: number one two point seven bill and Avengers Endgame is

2471
02:19:23,440 --> 02:19:28,080
Speaker 1: number two, and Jordan's we can't forget Selean Dion. We can't.

2472
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:29,840
Speaker 1: We saw what happened in the Rolling Stone did on

2473
02:19:29,840 --> 02:19:32,560
Speaker 1: their Best Singers list. They got picketers, so we cannot

2474
02:19:32,600 --> 02:19:35,520
Speaker 1: forget Selean Dion. The soundtrack song My Heart Will Go

2475
02:19:35,560 --> 02:19:37,800
Speaker 1: On debut at number one on the Billboard Hot one

2476
02:19:38,280 --> 02:19:42,920
Speaker 1: chart on February and sent the Titanic soundtrack into a

2477
02:19:43,040 --> 02:19:47,240
Speaker 1: sixteen week run at number one, an unprecedented feat for

2478
02:19:47,280 --> 02:19:50,760
Speaker 1: a largely orchestral soundtrack album. The song also went on

2479
02:19:50,800 --> 02:19:54,359
Speaker 1: to win Best Original Song at the Oscars, where Selene

2480
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:58,600
Speaker 1: Dion performed wearing a one point four million dollar recreation

2481
02:19:58,680 --> 02:20:01,120
Speaker 1: of the heart of the Ocean neck was that Aspury

2482
02:20:01,160 --> 02:20:04,400
Speaker 1: and Gerard were commissioned to create. It was a one

2483
02:20:04,560 --> 02:20:08,960
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one carrot heart shaped ceylon sapphire surrounded

2484
02:20:08,959 --> 02:20:11,959
Speaker 1: by a hundred and three diamonds was auctioned off for

2485
02:20:12,080 --> 02:20:15,080
Speaker 1: charity to benefit the Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Fund

2486
02:20:15,120 --> 02:20:19,039
Speaker 1: and Southern California's Aid for AIDS Foundation, and has reportedly

2487
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:22,440
Speaker 1: not been made available for public viewing ever since. The

2488
02:20:22,520 --> 02:20:25,840
Speaker 1: soundtrack recording became the best selling instrumental movie soundtrack of

2489
02:20:25,840 --> 02:20:28,640
Speaker 1: all time, and for several weeks, the book about the

2490
02:20:28,720 --> 02:20:31,280
Speaker 1: making of the Titanic film was at the top of

2491
02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:34,039
Speaker 1: the New York Times best seller list, the first time

2492
02:20:34,040 --> 02:20:36,480
Speaker 1: that such a tie in book had achieved this status.

2493
02:20:37,080 --> 02:20:41,080
Speaker 1: All in all, it was a bonafied phenomenon. Titanic was

2494
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:44,560
Speaker 1: nominated for fourteen Academy Awards, tying the records set by

2495
02:20:44,600 --> 02:20:48,400
Speaker 1: All About Eve in nineteen fifty. Hilariously, the movie had

2496
02:20:48,400 --> 02:20:52,160
Speaker 1: been nominated in almost every category except screenplay, which we

2497
02:20:52,160 --> 02:20:55,160
Speaker 1: had talked about in the first episode of this trilogy.

2498
02:20:56,080 --> 02:21:00,680
Speaker 1: Wasn't great and Best Actor Leonardo DiCaprio got passed over,

2499
02:21:00,800 --> 02:21:02,840
Speaker 1: and it's perhaps not a coincidence that he was a

2500
02:21:02,879 --> 02:21:07,120
Speaker 1: no show at the Oscar ceremony in March. To quote

2501
02:21:07,120 --> 02:21:10,680
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's Cameron took this personally. I don't think Michael

2502
02:21:10,760 --> 02:21:13,520
Speaker 1: Jordan said that, not documentary, but the Memes said that

2503
02:21:13,560 --> 02:21:17,000
Speaker 1: he said that James Cameron told Rolling Stone I thought

2504
02:21:17,000 --> 02:21:18,960
Speaker 1: it was kind of a snub, not of the film

2505
02:21:19,000 --> 02:21:21,240
Speaker 1: per se, but of all the other people who did

2506
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:23,800
Speaker 1: care and had sweated blood for the movie. So I

2507
02:21:23,879 --> 02:21:26,240
Speaker 1: kept calling and saying, you gotta go to the Oscars

2508
02:21:26,280 --> 02:21:28,240
Speaker 1: for the team, and frankly, you have to go for

2509
02:21:28,280 --> 02:21:31,000
Speaker 1: yourself because the consequences of not going will be that

2510
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:33,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna look like a spoiled punk. So he didn't go,

2511
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:36,360
Speaker 1: and you look like a spoiled punk. And Leo knows

2512
02:21:36,400 --> 02:21:38,240
Speaker 1: that I feel that way, so I'm not saying anything

2513
02:21:38,280 --> 02:21:41,000
Speaker 1: out of school. He agonized over it, but there was

2514
02:21:41,040 --> 02:21:43,400
Speaker 1: something about it that just wasn't him. That was a

2515
02:21:43,440 --> 02:21:45,600
Speaker 1: message I got on my machine like the day before,

2516
02:21:46,040 --> 02:21:48,959
Speaker 1: just day me bro apparently getting four million dollars to

2517
02:21:48,959 --> 02:21:50,960
Speaker 1: do a juice ad that air is only in Japan

2518
02:21:51,160 --> 02:21:54,959
Speaker 1: is him, but going to the Oscars is not. Again

2519
02:21:55,080 --> 02:22:00,520
Speaker 1: James Cameron with the body shots there. Wowk wins Lett

2520
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:02,760
Speaker 1: got a Best Actress nomination, which is the least they

2521
02:22:02,760 --> 02:22:05,480
Speaker 1: could do considering all she went through, and eighty seven

2522
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:08,200
Speaker 1: year old Glorious Stewart a k a. Old Rose was

2523
02:22:08,280 --> 02:22:12,200
Speaker 1: nominated for Best Supporting Actress, becoming the oldest person ever

2524
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:14,840
Speaker 1: nominated for an oscar at the time, a record she

2525
02:22:14,920 --> 02:22:18,160
Speaker 1: held for nineteen years until two thousand and eighteen, when

2526
02:22:18,200 --> 02:22:21,640
Speaker 1: Christopher Plummer was nominated for Best Supporting Actor at age eight.

2527
02:22:22,360 --> 02:22:24,240
Speaker 1: I think for all the money in the world is

2528
02:22:24,280 --> 02:22:27,560
Speaker 1: the movie? Uh. Stewart, however, still holds the record for

2529
02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:31,359
Speaker 1: the oldest woman nominated for Best Supporting In addition, Titanic

2530
02:22:31,400 --> 02:22:33,760
Speaker 1: was the first film to have two cast members wins

2531
02:22:33,840 --> 02:22:37,400
Speaker 1: letton Stewart nominated for playing the same role. I wonder

2532
02:22:37,440 --> 02:22:39,680
Speaker 1: if Marlon Brando, I guess it was a different movie.

2533
02:22:39,680 --> 02:22:41,120
Speaker 1: I guess it was Godfather one and two. I was

2534
02:22:41,120 --> 02:22:44,240
Speaker 1: gonna say Brando and um de Niro. I guess that's

2535
02:22:44,280 --> 02:22:47,480
Speaker 1: the caveat that it was in two different movies. Sadly

2536
02:22:47,520 --> 02:22:50,520
Speaker 1: they both lost in their respective categories. Kate Winslet to

2537
02:22:50,560 --> 02:22:52,960
Speaker 1: Helen Hunt and As Good as It Gets and Glorious

2538
02:22:52,959 --> 02:22:57,080
Speaker 1: Stewart to Kimbassenger in l A Confidential, A favorite of

2539
02:22:57,120 --> 02:23:00,640
Speaker 1: our friend Craig, friend of the pod Craig who thinks

2540
02:23:00,680 --> 02:23:04,400
Speaker 1: that Titanic robbed Ella Confidential of a Best Picture win

2541
02:23:04,920 --> 02:23:16,360
Speaker 1: Which show say something controversial yet brave? No six hours

2542
02:23:16,400 --> 02:23:20,960
Speaker 1: in No, I'm committing to this bit. Kate was win

2543
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:23,000
Speaker 1: an oscar for the Reader in two thousand nine, but

2544
02:23:23,080 --> 02:23:25,840
Speaker 1: sadly Glorious Stewart would not. But at least she got

2545
02:23:25,840 --> 02:23:27,920
Speaker 1: a cameo on Britney Spears. Oops, I did it again.

2546
02:23:28,080 --> 02:23:33,040
Speaker 1: Video So worthy consolation all around. Despite these losses, Titanic

2547
02:23:33,120 --> 02:23:37,800
Speaker 1: won eleven Oscars during the ceremony on March, tying the

2548
02:23:37,840 --> 02:23:41,800
Speaker 1: record previously set by Ben her Ine. Wow. I think

2549
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:43,840
Speaker 1: the ceremony was a year to the day after the

2550
02:23:43,879 --> 02:23:47,840
Speaker 1: film wrapped. That's like that. And I think that they

2551
02:23:47,879 --> 02:23:50,640
Speaker 1: broke ground on the studio that they built specifically to

2552
02:23:50,680 --> 02:23:54,320
Speaker 1: film it on some anniversary of work being begun on

2553
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:56,680
Speaker 1: the original Titanic. I like that. I guess there are

2554
02:23:56,680 --> 02:23:58,280
Speaker 1: only so many days in the year, and this went

2555
02:23:58,320 --> 02:24:00,760
Speaker 1: on for so long that you're you're bound to have

2556
02:24:00,840 --> 02:24:04,440
Speaker 1: stuff line up. But still I like that. Titanic was

2557
02:24:04,440 --> 02:24:07,440
Speaker 1: the first movie to win all seven technical categories that

2558
02:24:07,520 --> 02:24:12,680
Speaker 1: it deserves cinematography, editing, production design, costume design, sound mixing,

2559
02:24:12,760 --> 02:24:15,480
Speaker 1: sound editing, and visual effects, and it was also the

2560
02:24:15,520 --> 02:24:18,959
Speaker 1: first Best Picture winner to be produced, directed, written and

2561
02:24:19,120 --> 02:24:22,520
Speaker 1: edited by the same person, James Cameron. It was also

2562
02:24:22,560 --> 02:24:24,960
Speaker 1: the first movie to win both the Academy Award and

2563
02:24:25,000 --> 02:24:29,200
Speaker 1: the MTV Movie Awards for Best Picture. Again, it just

2564
02:24:29,240 --> 02:24:32,000
Speaker 1: shows that its appealed everybody, and it was also the

2565
02:24:32,040 --> 02:24:34,959
Speaker 1: only film to win both the Academy Award for Best

2566
02:24:35,000 --> 02:24:38,840
Speaker 1: Picture and Nickelodeon's Kids Choice Award for Favorite Movie. Again,

2567
02:24:38,959 --> 02:24:43,080
Speaker 1: appeal to everybody. Stargy film. People loved it. Teenagers and

2568
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:47,360
Speaker 1: Gen xers loved it. Little baby millennials like us loved it.

2569
02:24:47,400 --> 02:24:52,640
Speaker 1: Everybody loved Titanic. Ah James Cameron famously ended his Oscar

2570
02:24:52,680 --> 02:24:55,240
Speaker 1: speech for Best Director by shouting the line he ad

2571
02:24:55,240 --> 02:24:57,800
Speaker 1: libbed one day on the Titanic set, I'm king of

2572
02:24:57,840 --> 02:25:01,680
Speaker 1: the World's seems like a gimme, which is a perfect,

2573
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, a perfect reference for this triumphant moment. But

2574
02:25:04,560 --> 02:25:07,520
Speaker 1: apparently this resulted an even more bad press for James Cameron.

2575
02:25:08,240 --> 02:25:10,200
Speaker 1: I don't remember this at all, but apparently he was

2576
02:25:10,280 --> 02:25:13,400
Speaker 1: mocked repeatedly. He later said, after jumping up and making

2577
02:25:13,440 --> 02:25:15,760
Speaker 1: a fool of myself with my acceptance speech for Titanic,

2578
02:25:16,040 --> 02:25:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure nobody wants to see me the Academy Awards again,

2579
02:25:19,200 --> 02:25:20,680
Speaker 1: or maybe they want me to win again and see

2580
02:25:20,680 --> 02:25:22,640
Speaker 1: if I can make an even bigger fool of myself.

2581
02:25:23,560 --> 02:25:26,560
Speaker 1: In keeping with the theme with James Cameron, bigger is better.

2582
02:25:27,240 --> 02:25:29,879
Speaker 1: But I am sure he got over it. He went

2583
02:25:29,920 --> 02:25:33,360
Speaker 1: home with three Oscar statues that night, Best Picture, Best Director,

2584
02:25:33,640 --> 02:25:36,440
Speaker 1: and Best Film Editing. I haven't figured out what to

2585
02:25:36,480 --> 02:25:38,680
Speaker 1: do with them yet, he said, soon after. I thought

2586
02:25:38,680 --> 02:25:40,320
Speaker 1: of drilling a hole through the head of one and

2587
02:25:40,360 --> 02:25:43,760
Speaker 1: wearing it on a chain around my neck. And honestly,

2588
02:25:43,840 --> 02:25:46,119
Speaker 1: I'm shocked by his restraint that he didn't do this.

2589
02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:49,600
Speaker 1: His journey that began over a decade earlier watching the

2590
02:25:49,680 --> 02:25:53,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seven National Geographic documentary about the discovery of the

2591
02:25:53,200 --> 02:25:57,920
Speaker 1: Titanic was now over. It had cost two million dollars

2592
02:25:57,920 --> 02:26:00,879
Speaker 1: and an untold amount of human suffering. But he had

2593
02:26:00,920 --> 02:26:05,480
Speaker 1: made large boat, and as such we have made our

2594
02:26:05,560 --> 02:26:08,920
Speaker 1: large Boat trilogy. After all of this, there's really only

2595
02:26:08,920 --> 02:26:12,760
Speaker 1: one thing to say. In two thousand and seventeen, Titanic

2596
02:26:12,800 --> 02:26:15,920
Speaker 1: was selected for preservation by the National Film Registry by

2597
02:26:15,959 --> 02:26:18,800
Speaker 1: the Library of Congress for being culturally and historically and

2598
02:26:18,840 --> 02:26:23,680
Speaker 1: aesthetically significant. Boom. That's not the perfect ending for this. Well,

2599
02:26:24,040 --> 02:26:28,680
Speaker 1: damn it, I don't know what is. As we said earlier,

2600
02:26:28,680 --> 02:26:31,080
Speaker 1: it took James Cameron something like a hundred and sixty

2601
02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:33,600
Speaker 1: shooting days to make Titanic, and in a nod to

2602
02:26:33,680 --> 02:26:36,800
Speaker 1: his obsession with historical accuracy, I had intended to spend

2603
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:39,680
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty days making this episode, but Hagle

2604
02:26:39,800 --> 02:26:42,880
Speaker 1: reported me to my heart's hr. So you'll have to

2605
02:26:42,920 --> 02:26:45,680
Speaker 1: be satisfied with the fact that this trilogy was twice

2606
02:26:45,720 --> 02:26:50,480
Speaker 1: as long as the actual movie. But three episodes, six

2607
02:26:50,600 --> 02:26:54,400
Speaker 1: ish hours and seventy two pages notes later, I think

2608
02:26:54,480 --> 02:26:57,400
Speaker 1: I am finally out of stuff to say about Titanic,

2609
02:26:58,560 --> 02:27:01,199
Speaker 1: and frankly, I feel like the king of the world.

2610
02:27:02,160 --> 02:27:04,320
Speaker 1: I go, what about you? I don't know if my

2611
02:27:04,360 --> 02:27:10,000
Speaker 1: heart will go on, but my voice loss will. Yeah,

2612
02:27:10,440 --> 02:27:19,000
Speaker 1: he croaked towards Leek. No I was I was trying

2613
02:27:19,040 --> 02:27:20,560
Speaker 1: to do for heart, my heart will go on, and

2614
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:26,160
Speaker 1: it went and it turned out in the Hobbit theme. Folks,

2615
02:27:26,160 --> 02:27:31,080
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. This has been uh large boat

2616
02:27:31,560 --> 02:27:34,760
Speaker 1: Part three large harder because this we gotta do a

2617
02:27:34,840 --> 02:27:38,680
Speaker 1: lightning round it, just like type proposed Titanic sequels. I

2618
02:27:38,680 --> 02:27:41,440
Speaker 1: want to I want to see like what led cal

2619
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:46,240
Speaker 1: to h to off himself the gritty character like a

2620
02:27:46,800 --> 02:27:51,320
Speaker 1: prequel Titans They do a pre boot of Titanic. It

2621
02:27:51,520 --> 02:27:55,960
Speaker 1: is called cal It's just like a slow, ominous piano

2622
02:27:56,040 --> 02:28:01,520
Speaker 1: music in the background, like Don he thought he was

2623
02:28:01,560 --> 02:28:09,520
Speaker 1: in love, but there was something between them? Is that?

2624
02:28:09,800 --> 02:28:12,360
Speaker 1: Is that a play on the on the posters slogan

2625
02:28:13,320 --> 02:28:15,720
Speaker 1: nothing on Earth could come between them? Was all the

2626
02:28:15,760 --> 02:28:22,560
Speaker 1: posters just crudely photoshopping Billy Zane in there? You know what?

2627
02:28:22,760 --> 02:28:24,959
Speaker 1: You know? What I really want is like a marriage

2628
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:28,920
Speaker 1: story like Noah bum Bach, like quiet slow burn, John

2629
02:28:28,959 --> 02:28:34,879
Speaker 1: Cheever esque, like dull mid century on We of the Suburbs,

2630
02:28:35,520 --> 02:28:39,640
Speaker 1: Frannie and Zoe, gifted child Royal tennon bombs like like

2631
02:28:39,800 --> 02:28:43,600
Speaker 1: Rose survives and marries the dullest man on earth, and

2632
02:28:43,640 --> 02:28:47,480
Speaker 1: then we just get like a long like three cuts

2633
02:28:47,520 --> 02:28:50,680
Speaker 1: in the entire movie. It's four hours. It's My Dinner

2634
02:28:50,720 --> 02:28:55,240
Speaker 1: with Andre, but it's just Roses sad upper class life.

2635
02:28:56,360 --> 02:29:01,360
Speaker 1: I don't say anything about her husband. No constantly he

2636
02:29:01,400 --> 02:29:06,040
Speaker 1: will be played by John c Riley, constantly, constantly flashing

2637
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:09,200
Speaker 1: back to Jack in full on like Mr Cellophane in

2638
02:29:09,320 --> 02:29:13,959
Speaker 1: Chicago mode, like just complete non non person I hope

2639
02:29:13,959 --> 02:29:17,680
Speaker 1: so or alternate take. It's a it's an occurrence at

2640
02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:21,000
Speaker 1: out Creek Bridge situation, and we get or like a

2641
02:29:21,200 --> 02:29:24,000
Speaker 1: like a last Temptation of Christ's situation, where we get

2642
02:29:24,320 --> 02:29:27,840
Speaker 1: a whole movie where Jack like, it's like they survive

2643
02:29:27,959 --> 02:29:32,400
Speaker 1: happily and it's like a revolutionary road revolution road, or

2644
02:29:32,480 --> 02:29:38,120
Speaker 1: like Douglas Cirque, like fifties women melodrama, and then at

2645
02:29:38,160 --> 02:29:40,760
Speaker 1: the end of it, we just smashed cut to her

2646
02:29:40,840 --> 02:29:43,720
Speaker 1: drowning and the whole thing was an elaborate fantasy right

2647
02:29:43,720 --> 02:29:46,000
Speaker 1: before she died. That's my pitch for a Titanic movie

2648
02:29:46,040 --> 02:29:55,720
Speaker 1: directed by Terrence Malick. Oh, that's pretty good. Another Tannic

2649
02:29:55,879 --> 02:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Titanic pitch. She's just looking at the snow globe of

2650
02:29:58,720 --> 02:30:04,119
Speaker 1: the ship in it. Uh, that worked better than I Yeah, Actually,

2651
02:30:04,800 --> 02:30:07,560
Speaker 1: what about um? Did any of the dog survived? Do

2652
02:30:07,640 --> 02:30:09,240
Speaker 1: we do like a mile o on Otis, like The

2653
02:30:09,280 --> 02:30:13,400
Speaker 1: Incredible Homeward Bound, like a dog focused Titanic movie where

2654
02:30:13,440 --> 02:30:15,879
Speaker 1: it's just like a dog. Or Life of Pie. We

2655
02:30:15,959 --> 02:30:17,920
Speaker 1: do like a life pie where it's like a dog

2656
02:30:17,920 --> 02:30:19,920
Speaker 1: and a lifeboat and the dog where they wants to

2657
02:30:19,959 --> 02:30:23,440
Speaker 1: eat let's say a child, and it's just the two

2658
02:30:23,480 --> 02:30:26,840
Speaker 1: of them in a lifeboat and they learn life lessons

2659
02:30:26,879 --> 02:30:29,560
Speaker 1: to each other. The dog is played by John c Riley.

2660
02:30:29,840 --> 02:30:33,360
Speaker 1: The child is played by Robert de Niro, digitally d aged.

2661
02:30:34,840 --> 02:30:36,560
Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, what if we get Oh, we didn't

2662
02:30:36,560 --> 02:30:38,200
Speaker 1: even talk about we could do a prequel to Jack

2663
02:30:38,360 --> 02:30:42,800
Speaker 1: or to Titanic, just called Jack and it's it's it's

2664
02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:47,039
Speaker 1: it's footage from the Robin Rob Williams movie. That's exactly

2665
02:30:47,800 --> 02:30:55,720
Speaker 1: his face, his treehouse, curly, crudely pasted over, crudely photoshopped over. DiCaprio. No,

2666
02:30:55,879 --> 02:30:59,120
Speaker 1: it's called Jack and it's it's a horror movie. Um,

2667
02:30:59,160 --> 02:31:02,560
Speaker 1: and he's Jack the Ripper. Oh my god, we've got

2668
02:31:02,640 --> 02:31:06,119
Speaker 1: We've cracked it. It's a it's a gripping, psychological horror movie,

2669
02:31:06,160 --> 02:31:09,560
Speaker 1: directed but period accurate, directed by Robert Egger's showing what

2670
02:31:09,640 --> 02:31:15,120
Speaker 1: happened before Jack on on the Titanic. He was Jack exactly.

2671
02:31:15,480 --> 02:31:17,600
Speaker 1: There are rumors that Jack the Ripper was an American.

2672
02:31:17,800 --> 02:31:20,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that that those are actually true. I'm

2673
02:31:20,040 --> 02:31:24,080
Speaker 1: saying them so yes, but yeah, he was Jack the Ripper.

2674
02:31:24,120 --> 02:31:25,480
Speaker 1: He had to get out of town. And so we're

2675
02:31:25,520 --> 02:31:27,720
Speaker 1: gonna get the whole White Chapel murders. It's gonna be

2676
02:31:27,760 --> 02:31:30,960
Speaker 1: historically accurate. They're going to digitally d age Leonardo di

2677
02:31:31,000 --> 02:31:35,920
Speaker 1: Caprio down and um Robert Edgers will actually have him

2678
02:31:36,040 --> 02:31:39,840
Speaker 1: sharpen his own knives and construct his own Victorian hovel

2679
02:31:40,120 --> 02:31:43,200
Speaker 1: to live in, and then the whole movie will end

2680
02:31:43,440 --> 02:31:46,680
Speaker 1: up with him winning the tickets in the game That's

2681
02:31:46,840 --> 02:31:51,000
Speaker 1: really good. No, No, the movie ends with I'm the

2682
02:31:51,120 --> 02:31:58,720
Speaker 1: King of the World, completely inverting the whole emotion of

2683
02:31:58,760 --> 02:32:02,280
Speaker 1: that scene. All this and we it's like, instead of

2684
02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:05,200
Speaker 1: just like, oh, we're joyful for this, like vagabond who

2685
02:32:05,560 --> 02:32:09,080
Speaker 1: who we're seeing, we're seeing the grim triumph of a

2686
02:32:09,160 --> 02:32:12,320
Speaker 1: say it? You know? What they would do for the

2687
02:32:12,400 --> 02:32:15,760
Speaker 1: trailer then would be a slowed down, sinister version of

2688
02:32:15,840 --> 02:32:21,320
Speaker 1: the Who's Happy Jack? So slowed plus weever? Happy Jack

2689
02:32:22,280 --> 02:32:25,720
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like an Irish folk song. Yeah boom

2690
02:32:26,120 --> 02:32:32,640
Speaker 1: was boom boom boom. He's like, I didn't always go

2691
02:32:32,800 --> 02:32:38,240
Speaker 1: by Jack. I used to go by the rippers. I

2692
02:32:38,280 --> 02:32:40,200
Speaker 1: don't know what's the nickname was? What's the long name

2693
02:32:40,240 --> 02:32:43,560
Speaker 1: for Jack? Is it Jackathan? They used to call me

2694
02:32:43,760 --> 02:32:54,720
Speaker 1: Jackathan when I was in Whitechapel, Happy Jack Gold? Oh God,

2695
02:32:54,800 --> 02:32:59,800
Speaker 1: why don't they pay us more for this? Don't be rolling?

2696
02:33:00,080 --> 02:33:02,879
Speaker 1: Where how I am? We're into bonus material at this point.

2697
02:33:02,959 --> 02:33:05,400
Speaker 1: This is that we're just gonna put out a supplementary episode.

2698
02:33:05,400 --> 02:33:08,800
Speaker 1: This is Jordan and I developing the plot of the

2699
02:33:08,840 --> 02:33:12,680
Speaker 1: Titanic sequels and reboots, and all of it is trademarked.

2700
02:33:12,720 --> 02:33:16,720
Speaker 1: All of you om me money, all right? Uh, this

2701
02:33:16,800 --> 02:33:20,520
Speaker 1: has been large boat, too much information coal and large

2702
02:33:20,560 --> 02:33:24,760
Speaker 1: boat boat harder, sinc harder. I'm Alex Heigel and I'm

2703
02:33:24,840 --> 02:33:33,080
Speaker 1: Jordan Runtalg. We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information

2704
02:33:33,120 --> 02:33:35,840
Speaker 1: was a production of I Heart Radio. The show's executive

2705
02:33:35,840 --> 02:33:38,760
Speaker 1: producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. The show's

2706
02:33:38,760 --> 02:33:42,600
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show was researched,

2707
02:33:42,720 --> 02:33:45,640
Speaker 1: written and hosted by Jordan Runtalg and Alex Hegel, with

2708
02:33:45,720 --> 02:33:48,760
Speaker 1: original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2709
02:33:49,120 --> 02:33:51,120
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2710
02:33:51,200 --> 02:33:53,720
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and I heart Radio,

2711
02:33:53,879 --> 02:33:56,879
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

2712
02:33:56,920 --> 02:34:03,039
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows again at st Land,

2713
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:07,440
Speaker 1: at Tackas and sa