WEBVTT - Trump is coming back. Now what? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:05.120 Welcome to zero. I am Akshadarrati. This week, America's reset. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.479 Donald Trump is backed and possibly with the biggest mandate 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.080 he's ever had that will have huge implications for climate 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.640 and energy not just in the US but around the world. 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.720 So this week I wanted to talk to someone who 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.320 has been on the front lines of climate policy making, 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.440 someone who's a Democrat and was lucky to be re elected. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:48.600 Congressman Rocanna represents California's seventeenth district, which includes Silicon Valley. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.720 Over the years, he's been a vocal advocate for climate policy, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.000 and he's also a member of the Select Committee on 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.760 the Strategic Competition between the United States and the Chinese 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.280 Communist Party. That means he has a big job to 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:08.680 help secure America's future leadership in technology. In my conversation, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.319 I asked him about the consequences of Trump's election and what, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.960 if anything, can Democrats do to keep climate and clean 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.759 energy at the top of the agenda. Later I also 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.720 talked to Jason Bordoff from the Center on Global Energy 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.360 Policy at Columbia University. We talked about how a Trump 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.720 administration is likely to shape our climate and energy future, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:48.200 and it's not simply just drill, Baby, drill. Welcome to 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.040 the show, Representative Kannor. It's a huge day today with 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.000 the election, and when this episode goes out, the country 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.000 will still be sorting through the many reasons Donald Trump 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.280 was elected as president and the many issues that voters 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.080 were responding to. But just days before the election, you 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.600 wrote an op ed for Rolling Stone arguing that the 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.720 polls were underestimating the importance of climate change to the 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.160 average American. You said, climate change really is a kitchen 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:22.600 table issue. But now there is in the old office 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.799 who many people would call a climate denier coming in January. 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.760 So how do you understand what just happened in the 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.919 election in terms of where were to see the significance 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.040 of climate change. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.080 It's important that we take away the right lesson from 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.880 the election result. Obviously it was devastating for many of 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.240 us who care about climate and progressive values, but it 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.440 was in the context of people being unhappy about inflation, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:57.760 unhappy about the cost of living, unhappy about the situation 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.800 on the border. Incumbent part parties have lost around the world, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.560 and in retrospect, having a president with forty percent approval 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.639 rating made it very, very hard for whoever was running. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.440 But that doesn't mean that voters, particularly younger voters, aren't 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.560 going to care about climate. I think there is an 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:21.600 extraordinary opportunity to organize and mobilize around it with Trump 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.080 coming to power, and to be prepared to run on 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.040 that agenda in twenty twenty six and in twenty twenty eight. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.120 We need to make it clear that the world needs 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.960 to invest in solar, which is the cheapest form of 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.400 energy right now three cents to a kilowatt hour compared 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.400 to natural gas at six cents and oil at seventh sense, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:46.600 that we need a climate resiliency infrastructure, and we've got 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.160 to keep making the case. The one point I'll make 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.200 is the Civil Rights Act in America was introduced in 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.720 nineteen sixty four. I understand what the climate emergency time 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.240 is of the essence, but progress takes time, and my 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.440 message to the climate activist is let's keep going. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.200 But when you listed the things that people voted on, 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:10.080 you said, there's immigration, there's inflation, there is the anti 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:15.080 incumbency factor, but it does say that even today climate 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.719 is not yet a kitchen table issue. How do you 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:19.479 make it one? 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:25.080 Well, it is an issue for many young Americans, for sure, 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.040 and it's a kitchen table issue in terms of the 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.640 people who are dealing with the awful costs of hurricanes 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:41.880 and storms. But it's not as alien as people going 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.840 into a grocery store and seeing that the price of 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.080 groceries has gone up, people seeing that they can't afford 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.400 a house until you have your basic needs met. Very 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.000 hard to think broadly about the issues of what's good 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.840 for the climate and the planet. So first we've got 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.680 to make sure that we're talking about the day to 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.520 day economic lives of people. And then we've got to 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.560 continue to make the case that climate disasters are hurting 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.719 the economy of America and having a negative impact on 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.919 their kids and their lives. But it's very hard to 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.719 make that central when people are not being able to 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:17.360 pay the bills. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:22.400 Now, President Joe Biden's climate legacy is notable. We saw 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:28.120 historic climate legislation get passed under his administration. But I 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.919 do want to ask you what happens to the legacy now, 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.159 And I think we should take it piece by peace, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.040 because there were three big piece of legislation that were passed. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.279 Let's start with the Inflation Reduction Act. What do you 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.800 think stays, and what do you think goes. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.080 I believe that many of the tax credits will stay, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.320 and the reason is those are crediting jobs in red states. 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.120 I mean, is Governor Kemp going to advocate not to 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.719 have his state is getting a lot of those battery 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.320 factories and those solar plants. I had actually been critical 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.640 of the administration saying why aren't we getting them in 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.159 more Union states? Why aren't we getting them more in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.560 But one advantage of having them disproportionately in the red 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.119 states is it's going to be harder to take those away. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.560 Is Elon Musk really going to say to Donald Trump guests, 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.920 let's take away the tax credit for electric vehicles or 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.240 impose the two hundred thousand vehicle cap again, I don't 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.599 think so. So I am confident hopeful that a lot 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.480 of that will stay. I am concerned that he's going 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.120 to start drilling in anwar. He's going to start grilling 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.320 everywhere that we're going to have more efforts at subsidies 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.520 for fossil fuel companies, and that to me is the 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:40.760 bigger danger. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.520 Do you think he will also chip at the bypart 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.520 as an Infrastructure Deal or the Chips Act. 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.240 You know the Chips Act. I helped write the Chips 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.480 in SIZAC, which Senator Schumer, and it's originated by a 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.159 guy named Pete Crouch in the Trump administration. It was 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.360 an idea that the Trump administration under POMPEII and started. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.440 So it would be short sighted, very short sighted for 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.600 him to say America doesn't need to have industrial policy 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.559 to make sure semiconductors are here and there. Many people 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.080 in his administration would say we need that given the 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.880 rise of China, that we need a self reliance. So 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.600 he may tinker with it, but I would be surprised 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.880 if he repeals it. And even Johnson, who talked about 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.320 repealing it, walk that statement back. Same thing with the 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.080 Infrastructure Bill. I mean, he's talked about infrastructure so many times. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.560 We got it done. But my hope is, if anything, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.320 he'd expand it. I don't think he's going to repeal that. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:37.720 There may be efforts to repeal parts of the IRA 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.840 that are dealing with subsidies and satims for solar and wind, 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.640 but I'm hopeful we'll be able to block that. I 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.960 do think where he's going to try to really make 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.040 a difference is on the EPA and taking away a 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.240 lot of the rules that the EPA put on clean water, 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.760 on p fast contamination, on other areas regulation. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.160 Let's come to oil production, because it is something you 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.640 have been vocal about. You have criticized big ol companies 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.200 for holding back climent action. But the fact is the 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.840 US produces more oil than any other country in history. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.960 The US produces fifty percent more oil today than Saudi Arabia, 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.040 and a lot of that increase, by the way, has 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.440 come under the Biden administration. But of course Trump has 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:30.280 come to the fore saying he wants more oil to come. Drill, baby, drill. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.720 None of this looks good for America's energy transition. What 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.280 do you think it will take to move the US 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:38.960 away from fossil fuels. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.280 Well, the economics should dictate US diversifying. I mean, it's 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.840 like I said, three cents a killowt hour on solar, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.600 whereas it's six or seven sets of killoot hour on 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.400 oil and natural gas. And we're foolish to not be 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.880 investing in the energy supplies of the future. We're foolish 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.480 not to be investing in energy supplies that are better 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.440 for our national security than a dependence on a product 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:08.520 that also improves the geopolitical situation of Russia, Iran and Venezuela. 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.800 So I think what we have to do is make 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.880 the argument that we are the party of the energy 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.000 of the future guests. We have to have this transition 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.960 in a way that makes sense. That you need oil 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.960 and natural gas until there's an abundance of nuclear and 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.840 solar and wind and geothermal. But the investments we need 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.240 to be making are in the new things, just like 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:36.320 we need iPhones and laptops, not old desktops or typewriters. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.400 Why are we investing in the old infrastructure as opposed 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.520 to the new. One of the areas I have been 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.760 focused on is getting rid of fossil fuel subsidies. Obviously 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.440 that's going to be hard in a Trump administration, but 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.000 we have to remain focused on that so that when 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.600 we do get a democratic president, that can be part 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.120 of the agenda. In the first one hundred days. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.680 As we record this, Republicans are likely to take control 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.040 of this and it as well as the presidency, but 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:07.360 the houses still upprograbs. No matter what happens, Democrats like 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.040 you are going to have to work closely with Republicans 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.680 to get anything done. Where do you see opportunities to 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.600 work with Republicans on climate? 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.120 There are not many on climate. There are other areas 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.040 where I'm more optimistic. I would hope, at the very 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.520 least to get some recognition of climate change as existing. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.439 I would hope that we could help maybe bring manufacturing 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.400 back to America. I have a Modernization of Steel Act 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.160 that would actually bring new steel plants to America that 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.360 are direct reduction iron based on a hydrogen And one 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.160 way we could focus on climate is we can reindustrialize 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.760 America in a better, less carbon emittive way. And maybe 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.400 we could get the some Republicans on board with that, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.280 not because they care about the carbon emissions, but because 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:57.840 they care about the new manufacturing. 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:03.080 And if you can the carbon equation out, what other 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.319 types of solutions that are green technologies that may reduce 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:14.200 emissions but aren't primarily being targeted for that that you 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:19.520 could try and convince Republicans to join. You. 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.600 Look, I think the Republican Party and its current form 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.640 is very, very hostile to a lot of policies on climate. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:32.520 Maybe you could get some Republicans to care about clean air, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.920 clean water, having standards on p fast in terms of 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.679 particles per million, or making sure that there's not too 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:44.240 much prefat in products. Maybe we could have some preservation 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.640 of open land. Maybe we can talk about the importance 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.640 of replacing lead pipes so that we could have clean 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.520 drinking water. But it's always a push with Republicans on 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:57.320 the environment. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:02.120 In my recent conversation with billionaire and Silicon Valley veteran 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.560 Vinod Coslar, who I assume you know, we talked about 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:10.920 the possibility that Elon Musk could become Trump's climate champion. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.440 Is this something that you have thought about? Is this 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.680 something that you've talked to Elon about? Is there any 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.360 room for that to be somebody in the sphere of 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.400 influence of Trump who would tell him why acting on 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:29.200 climate is important. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.120 Well, we know thy have good ideas. I know, but 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.160 for many years, and I know Ilon. I congratulated him 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.840 last night, and I think it's worth my talking to 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.880 Ilon about that. I mean, his focus right now with 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.800 so much about getting bureaucracy out of the way of 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:50.480 what he considers builders and entrepreneurs. But I think if 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.440 he were to focus also on a climate agenda as 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.560 part of the rebuild maybe he could break through because 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:58.840 Donald Trump obviously has a lot of respect for him, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.520 and so it's a good idea, and it'll be one 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.000 of the topics I'll discuss with the a lot when 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:04.400 we meet. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.320 Now. Looking outside America, President Trump has long made it 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.280 clear that he wants the US to leave the Paris Agreement. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.680 He withdrew once before in twenty seventeen, but because of 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.920 a delay that was baked in, the exit was only 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.520 completed in November of twenty twenty, and soon after President 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.520 Biden saw to it that the US rejoined. This time, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:32.520 that withdrawal will happen faster and could likely have bigger consequences. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.079 The exit time is only one year, and some conservatives 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.440 are pushing Trump to go further and pull the US 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.079 out of the climate treaty itself, which could be nigh 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.160 impossible to join given how divided Congress is. So what 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.360 do you think happens to global climate diplomacy If the 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.320 world's biggest economy and the second largest emitter walks out 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:56.360 for good. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.800 We can't wellk out. We need to resist that, just 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.280 like we resist walking out of NATO. And the argument 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.040 I will make to my Republican colleagues, people like Senator Rubio, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.320 who drafted legislation to make it very hard for Trump 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.520 to pull out of NATO, is that pulling out of 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.400 these climate agreements is seating American leadership to China, which 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.640 is a huge emitter, ceating American leadership to other nations, 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.440 and that that's not in the interest of America to 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.200 lead the world. If you want America to lead in ai, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.840 if you want America to lead in crypto, if you 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.800 want America to lead in biotech, then why wouldn't you 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.800 want America to lead in climate. It's a matter of 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.040 our leadership around the world. And I'm hopeful that that 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.880 argument will carry the day, so that even if Trump 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.960 engages in a lot of rhetoric about withdrawal, that he's 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:45.760 unable to do. 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.720 So, and on China, you might be able to get 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.600 bipartisan agreement. The Inflation Reduction Act was an important piece 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:58.640 of legislation, and you had Senator Manchin explicitly say that 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.440 he the key decided vote, supported it because he saw 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:08.320 that that would help the US become more competitive against China. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:14.360 Now President Trump is perhaps more adversarial in his position 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.120 on China, with wanting to have bigger tariffs. But how 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.520 do you think the US can continue to compete with 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.440 China on green technologies under a Trump administration. 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.600 Well, a lot of it's going to come from my district, 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.280 the private sector. When the private sector sees that the 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.040 cost of producing renewable energy is going down, they see 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.480 that the cost of battery storage is going down, that 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:42.440 there could be enormous innovation in a huge market, nine 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.920 trillion dollar market in energy. And yes, the government can 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.360 help make that easier. But if the government is making 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.720 it a bit harder, that may slow things down, but 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:56.320 it's not going to stop the entrepreneurs for innovating. It's 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.280 not going to stop many members of Congress from continuing 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.200 to build these relationships around the world. And so I 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.240 would say that we have to continue to move forward 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.560 as states, the cities. This is the private sector because 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.800 the federal government, while critical, is not the only game 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:19.640 in town, and it's not the only thing that defines America. 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.160 One of the things that has made your district and 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.040 the state of California, but also so many other states 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.720 in the US so good at innovating, is because they 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.320 have attracted immigrants. But the issue that Trump campaigned on 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.960 and the line he has taken on immigration seems to 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.800 be pretty detrimental. Do you think the US will continue 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.720 to attract the level of talent that enable this kind 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.120 of innovation if Trump follows through on deportation or other 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.960 radical policies that he has talked about in his campaign 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.119 in the election. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.800 How extremely is I remember his last term, it slowed 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.640 down immigration. Now partly that was because of COVID, but 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.399 partly because it was the town he took. Now, the 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.600 United States is a global race for talent. I mean, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.440 we want talented people to help innovate and create companies. Here. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.760 Trump had said on All In podcasts that he was 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.040 open to reforming that process of founders and entrepreneurs and 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.240 scientists and technology leaders. We'll see what he does, but 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.639 he would really be kneecapping America if he does not 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.600 allow us to succeed in the global race for talent. 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.439 If you're a football team or a basketball team and 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.360 you've got a great center or a great quarterback who 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.719 happens to be from Japan, you obviously will do everything 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.920 to sign them. Well, the same thing is true if 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:43.600 you want to be a great company. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.919 And taking climate change is easier if countries cooperate. But 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.240 Trump's narrative is one of competition. We talked a little 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.920 bit about the US competition with China over green technologies, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.280 but under an America First agenda, European countries could also 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.520 be seen as company editors. How do you think European 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.720 allies are likely to respond to from on trade, on climate, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.119 on tariffs, things that are likely to play in this 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:11.800 incoming press. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.879 I think they're thinking, how do we survive it, how 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.280 do we get caught time where Democrats come back into 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.959 power in Europe at least, But I think they're going 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.320 to try to do things to mitigate the damage. The 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.280 hope that a lot of this is populist rhetoric, that 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.960 cooler heads will prevail, that we don't ignite a trade war. 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:33.080 Notice trumpthing mentioned many tariffs in his speech last night, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:37.600 that we don't pull out a NATO, that we're still 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.080 engaged in the world, and the Europeans need to hear 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:46.240 from us from a diverse group of leaders, as the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.560 countries elsewhere in India and in the Middle East, about 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.959 our commitment to staying engaged and recognizing that again the 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.840 country is divided and the president doesn't speak for everyone. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.919 Now we are speaking just days before the start of 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.399 COP twenty nine and Baku Azerbaijan. Trump doesn't control the 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.560 White House yet. The US delegation is going to go 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.840 under President Biden's instructions. But there's a risk that whatever 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.640 happens at KOP will be irrelevant if Trump pulls out 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.760 of the Paris Agreement. How do you think Trump's selection 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.520 affects the discussions that will happen at COP twenty nine. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.399 I think the reality is that people are going to 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.320 be looking for American leadership and reassurance. They're going to say, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.320 what is the consequences of this? Who is going to 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.760 be pulling out of what treaties? What is Trump going 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.240 to do to hurt climate? But there we have to 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.960 reassure them that there's still a lot of climate activities 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.959 people who care about the climate there. It would be 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.200 important in my view, for the Trump administration to send 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.919 someone there, and maybe as an initial matter, I can 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.479 talk to Elon or others about the importance of US 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:03.320 having representation there from the incoming new administration. But the 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.240 key for surviving four years of Trump on climate is 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.880 two progued. One is to make the argument to people 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.800 in the Trump administration who may be sympathetic from a 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.919 perspective of just American leadership and American innovation. And secondly, 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.879 to make the case to the world in America still 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:26.600 remains the technological leader in so many climate areas, and 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.040 so many people like Bill Gates, like John Dorr, like 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.199 the No North COASTLA like Elon Musk, remain committed to 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.800 solving the climate problem and they shouldn't write off the 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.840 entire country because of who our president is, who got 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.480 elected with fifty one fifty two percent of the vote 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:43.840 and forty eight percent descent. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:49.760 Well, last time around, when Trump was elected, Paris Agreement 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:54.000 had just been signed, The climate agenda was in ascendency. 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.760 People were recognizing that, Okay, the US might have pulled out, 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:02.160 but rest of the world is committed. Then around twenty twenty, 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.960 when Joe Biden was elected, there was a backlash against Trump, 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.879 but also there's clear recognition that climate is front of 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.080 the agenda. ESG investing, environmental social governance investing was in 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:20.160 the ascendancy, and investors and financial authorities were getting involved 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.119 in climate action. This time around, all of that is 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.960 going in the opposite direction. It's not just the US. 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.800 There are other elections around the world where climate hasn't 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.360 been the top priority or has been a anti climate vote. 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.360 Same thing with the ESG in the US, there's been 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:40.400 political backlash against ESG investing. So the agenda globally has 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.080 been in a very challenging spot. And so when you 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:48.520 think about non federal actors or state actors or local 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:53.040 governments or entrepreneurs wanting to take the baton while Trump 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.280 is not caring about climate, they just have a much 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:57.520 harder job, don't they. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.320 They do. But there's also a new generation that it's 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.520 coming into positions of responsibility, a new generation coming in 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:09.760 the Wall Street, into Silicon Valley, into nonprofits and businesses, 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.880 and they care about climate, they care about having purpose 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.879 in their jobs, they care about their future, their kids' future. 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.800 And I'm waiting for that next generation to lead. Now. 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.919 Will Donald Trump set back the climate agenda of the 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.320 nation in the world for four years? Yes? Is he 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.560 gonna make it harder? Yes, there's there's no sugarcoating that. 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:35.720 But does that mean that the climate movement and the 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:40.200 next generations who get it can't still help make progress 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:44.640 on this incredibly existential issue. Absolutely not. I think their 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.040 work must continue and in some ways they will break through, 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.480 and you also may see a reaction in the polls 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.240 and with the public against Trump. So right now, Trump's 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.719 winning on all the immigration issues, but remember when he 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.480 was in power, Democrats for winning because his policies were 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:06.360 so draconian. If he institutes draconian policies that take us 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.160 backwards with no appreciation of solar and winded batteries, there 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.240 may become a reassessment in America saying, you know, Trump's 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.359 gone too far, and it may give Democrats an advantage. 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.800 These things have a way of being a pendulum, and 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.399 I don't think that Trump's going into a a neanderous 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.439 view of climate is going to be sustainable with the 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:29.200 American public. 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:31.600 Thank you, Representative Connor, thank. 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:37.520 You for your leadership and voice. 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.480 After the break, I speak to Jason Bordof, founding director 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:45.080 of the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University, 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:59.920 about energy and tariffs under Trump. Jason, your job these 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.359 is to think about energy policy at Columbia University, but 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:07.600 before that you were in the Obama administration thinking about energy, 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:11.240 climate and national security. So let's get into the meat 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:15.119 of it. I've been speaking with Congressman Rocanna, who says 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:18.520 that yes, under Trump, they're likely to be some amount 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.760 of climate action that'll continue, things like tax credit under 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.520 the Inflation Reduction Act. But unfortunately, he thinks working with 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.359 Republicans on climate is just going to be very hard. 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.119 Do you see any common ground? 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:34.400