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Speaker 1: When you're feeling less burned out. I was with a

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Speaker 1: more elevated mood. Overall, you have more to give at

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Speaker 1: work than you know, socially and for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to episode three hundred and twenty three

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Speaker 3: of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I talk to

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Speaker 3: inspirational people about everything from their highest ties and toughest

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Speaker 3: moments to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,

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Speaker 3: more motivated life. We all go through our fair share

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Speaker 3: of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower

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Speaker 3: you to better navigate yours and move with intention so

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Speaker 3: that you can stride towards your own big potential and

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Speaker 3: of course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,

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Speaker 3: I am bringing in the big guns with doctor Elizabeth Sharp.

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Speaker 3: She's the founder and medical director at Health Meets Wellness,

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Speaker 3: which is a concierge primary care facility here in New York,

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Speaker 3: and today her and I are really diving in to

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Speaker 3: the topics of burnout and seasonal depression. I shared a

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Speaker 3: little bit about what I've been experiencing lately on a

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Speaker 3: recent installment of Five Minute Friday and got a really

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Speaker 3: resonant response, with so many of you in the hurdle

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Speaker 3: community saying I am dealing with burnout, I am dealing

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Speaker 3: with seasonal depression, and you were looking for answers, and

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Speaker 3: so that is why doctor Sharp is on the show today.

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Speaker 3: We get started talking a little bit about weight management,

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Speaker 3: something that she does address in her practice, but then

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Speaker 3: quickly pivot into the reason for our discussion and talking

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Speaker 3: about burnout and seasonal depression. What the signs and symptoms

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Speaker 3: of both are, how to distinguish between the two, knowing

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Speaker 3: that they can show up in tandem, and then also

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Speaker 3: treatment options right, how does someone navigate burnout, how does

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Speaker 3: someone navigate seasonal depression?

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Speaker 2: If you do choose to lean into.

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Speaker 3: Medical intervention, what your options are not just medication, but

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Speaker 3: also talking to a therapist, integrating in regular movement, and

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Speaker 3: other practical tips. On the medication note, we talk about

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Speaker 3: what you should know if you are interested in going

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Speaker 3: on medication for depression, how long it might take for

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Speaker 3: that medication to start working for you, and how to

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Speaker 3: know if and when you should go off that medication.

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Speaker 3: As someone who had a difficult time navigating depression in

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Speaker 3: early twenty twenty two, I really appreciate what this episode

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Speaker 3: brings to the table and hope that it can be

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Speaker 3: a resource for the hurdle community. As with any episode,

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Speaker 3: any expert that comes on the show, I am aiming

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Speaker 3: to give you reliable and safe information. But if you

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Speaker 3: are experiencing anything that we talk about in this episode,

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Speaker 3: make sure you reach out one one to a physician

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Speaker 3: so that you can get custom tailored help specific to

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Speaker 3: what you are experiencing. I also do want this to

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Speaker 3: jumpstart a discussion, so if you have a question about

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Speaker 3: anything that we talk about in this episode, feel free

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Speaker 3: to write in with a listener question. You can always

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Speaker 3: email us with that or anything else at Hello at

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Speaker 3: Hurdle dot us. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle

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Speaker 3: over on social It's at Hurdle Podcast. I myself am

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Speaker 3: over at Emily a Body And with that, let's get

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to hurdling today.

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Speaker 3: I am sitting down with doctor Elizabeth Sharp. She's the

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Speaker 3: founder and medical director at Health meets Wellness.

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Speaker 2: How are we doing today?

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Speaker 1: I'm great, so excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: I'm so happy that we were able to carve out

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Speaker 3: the time to do this because we are here today

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Speaker 3: to talk about an extremely time sensitive issue that is

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Speaker 3: navigating burnout and then also a little bit of seasonal depression.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into that, I want to know

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Speaker 2: a little bit about you. Where are you, what do

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Speaker 2: you do? Give us the lowdown.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So my office is in New York City. I

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Speaker 1: am a primary care doctor, so in interness by training,

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Speaker 1: I'm also functional medicine certified and in my practice health

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Speaker 1: meets Wellness. I take a more holistic approach to primary

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Speaker 1: care and weight management by combining medicine, exercise, and nutrition

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Speaker 1: in my practice. So everyone that comes in sees me,

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Speaker 1: they see a dietician, they get a meal plan as

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Speaker 1: well as an exercise plan. We track biometrics and short

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Speaker 1: term and long term goals so that all of our

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Speaker 1: patients are on their path to health optimization.

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Speaker 2: This is super interesting to me.

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Speaker 3: So when someone comes into your practice and they express

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Speaker 3: an interest in changing something about their lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that you work in weight management.

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Speaker 3: What are the questions that you're asking them so that

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Speaker 3: they can make informed decisions about what it is they

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Speaker 3: want to do and how they want to proceed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you know a couple of questions

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Speaker 1: that come to mind that I try to ask everyone

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Speaker 1: in different ways depending on how it comes up. Is

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Speaker 1: you know, where are you now and where would you

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Speaker 1: like to be in you know, three months, six months,

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Speaker 1: twelve months, and five years from now. And then additionally,

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Speaker 1: you know, how do you feel overall about your mental, emotional,

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Speaker 1: spiritual health as well as physical health? And are there

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Speaker 1: things about your I would say, day to day energy levels,

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Speaker 1: feeling in your body, overall, things like that that you

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Speaker 1: want to optimize or change. And oftentimes just with those

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Speaker 1: questions alone, we can kind of figure out what a

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Speaker 1: roadmap for the next year or so will look like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like, especially these days, there's so many

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Speaker 3: conversations that are being had about weight management, so many

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Speaker 3: individuals seeking counsel assistance or perhaps feeling pressure to do

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Speaker 3: one thing or the other based on what's going on

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Speaker 3: in society.

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Speaker 2: How has that impacted you in your practices?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with weight management in particular. So those

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Speaker 1: questions that I just mentioned are kind of like general

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Speaker 1: for all patients, but for weight management also, I think

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Speaker 1: it's important to sort of think about weight history in

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Speaker 1: the sense of sometimes there can be inflection points in

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Speaker 1: life that cause changes in weight because of diet and

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Speaker 1: lifestyle changes for example, a more sedentary job, pregnancy, a

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Speaker 1: stressful life event, you know COVID nineteen for example, things

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Speaker 1: like that which are really important to identify in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, what might have changed and what was working before,

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Speaker 1: because it's important to recognize factors that are either barriers

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Speaker 1: have worked in the past that you might want to

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Speaker 1: invite into a new, reframed plan. And I try to

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Speaker 1: work on building from that and then figuring out, you know,

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Speaker 1: what things in a I would say lifestyle are health

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Speaker 1: oriented versus no, and then how to kind of build

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Speaker 1: on that as well, because ultimately, health, optimization, longevity, all

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Speaker 1: of that is a lifestyle. It's not a quick fix.

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Speaker 1: And that's the biggest thing with weight management is to

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Speaker 1: think that think about it from a long term perspective,

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Speaker 1: in the sense that weight loss is not actually really

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Speaker 1: the goal. It's weight loss and weight maintenance. It's maintaining

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Speaker 1: the weight loss that you know, is the real key.

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Speaker 1: And that's the part that's hard. If you, for example,

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Speaker 1: just rely on some of these new weight loss medications

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Speaker 1: and you don't make those positive behavior changes, it's very

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Speaker 1: likely that you won't maintain the weight loss, right, And

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Speaker 1: so that's what I really try to emphasize in my

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Speaker 1: practice is building that positive feedback with the behavior change

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Speaker 1: and then the results that you want, so that it's

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Speaker 1: a feed forward cycle and then you're building that lifestyle

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Speaker 1: that you want.

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Speaker 3: I've heard a startling amount of statistics about the individuals

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Speaker 3: that lose weight and then are incapable of maintaining that

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Speaker 3: weight loss, as low as between like one in five

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Speaker 3: percent of individuals who undergo something like that. Now, obviously

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Speaker 3: statistics change over time, but it'll be really interesting to

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Speaker 3: see what happens for the greater population with time, as

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Speaker 3: so many people I have gone, you know this fruit

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Speaker 3: with the weight loss medications. Yeah, and that's one of

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Speaker 3: the biggest things that I emphasize in my practice because

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Speaker 3: I do prescribe those medications and I think that they're

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Speaker 3: amazing in terms of their efficacy and safety profile.

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Speaker 1: But the key is that they have to be paired

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Speaker 1: with the diet and lifestyle changes. Otherwise you lose critical

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Speaker 1: skeletal muscle masks. You don't build the positive behavior changes

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Speaker 1: to maintain the weight loss, and then ultimately you can

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Speaker 1: end up in a worse place than you were when

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Speaker 1: you started the medication in terms of overall health and

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Speaker 1: body composition. So I agree. I mean, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be interesting to see how the landscape changes once we

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Speaker 1: have more data, and I think once people understand a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about how to use the medications in

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Speaker 1: a meaningful way so that they can be transitioned off

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Speaker 1: of for some and for others. You know, they may

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Speaker 1: be a long term thing with those positive behavior changes,

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Speaker 1: just depending on the patient. But it's an exciting time

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Speaker 1: for weight management, that's for sure. It is.

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Speaker 3: So we've obviously gone down that path, but now I'm

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Speaker 3: going to reel us in and talking about what's going

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Speaker 3: on right now. So many into visuals I feel like

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Speaker 3: experience both seasonal depression and burnout kind of simultaneously. I

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Speaker 3: spoke a little bit about this on the show recently,

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Speaker 3: dealing with my personal experience with burnout, and I got

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Speaker 3: so many people coming into my DMS and my inbox saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: I feel the exact same way, which is why I

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Speaker 3: wanted to get someone like yourself on the show who

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Speaker 3: is an expert in these areas. So first and foremost,

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Speaker 3: when we talk about burnout. What are we really getting at?

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Speaker 2: What is burnout?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So you know, I think ultimately it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a chronic stress response. Right, So over time, you

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Speaker 1: can actually withstand a lot of stress and I would

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Speaker 1: say high amounts of stimuli to a point where you

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Speaker 1: will be overdoing it mentally and physically, and eventually you

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Speaker 1: get to let's call it critical mass, right, and that's

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Speaker 1: burnout where you just I would say, don't have the

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Speaker 1: mental bandwidth to continue at that level because ultimately, eventually,

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Speaker 1: this is what happens even with chronic stress. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have corticol burnout, right, So cortisol levels are at

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Speaker 1: a high, high level, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you start to have the side effects from high corticol

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Speaker 1: levels long term that are very different from a quick spike. Right.

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Speaker 1: I would liken it to like the adrenaline of running

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Speaker 1: away from a bear versus if you're running with from

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Speaker 1: the bear every day, eventually the bear is going to

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Speaker 1: start to do different things to your body. And this

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Speaker 1: says that you can't run at MAC speed every single

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Speaker 1: day all day, eventually you will burn out. And so

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Speaker 1: that's what's happening. But I think the biggest thing with burnout,

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Speaker 1: specifically from work, is that there's a lot of imbalance

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Speaker 1: between mental and physical health right now, in the sense

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Speaker 1: of a lot of times work is very it's cognitively demanding.

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Speaker 1: People are not exercising enough, and there's not enough work

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Speaker 1: life balance, so there's not enough time to recharge. And

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Speaker 1: the reality is everyone has a finite amount of bandwidth

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Speaker 1: per day, and when you try to squeeze that more,

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Speaker 1: more and more into that, eventually your mind just can't

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Speaker 1: work at a super high level one hundred percent of

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Speaker 1: the time and you will burn out. And then you

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Speaker 1: get feedback, which is that you know, either you're unable

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Speaker 1: to engage at a high level, you feel apathetic or

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Speaker 1: depressed or things like that. And I think when it's

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Speaker 1: coupled with seasonal depression, it makes it even more complicated

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Speaker 1: because that can I would say, already have a level

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Speaker 1: of change in motivation, change in energy level and routine

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Speaker 1: that could lead to burnout quicker.

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Speaker 3: How do you differentiate between Okay, I think I'm experiencing burnout.

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Speaker 3: This just all really feels like a lot for me

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Speaker 3: right now, versus some of the symptoms that someone might

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Speaker 3: undergo if they're experiencing seasonal depression.

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Speaker 1: I ask a lot about the difference of how people

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Speaker 1: feel on the weekends versus the work week, and that's

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Speaker 1: a better question for people who are working Monday through Friday.

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Speaker 1: If you're working during the weekend, that is helpful, but

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Speaker 1: that can actually help to get a better pulse on

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Speaker 1: the baseline level of kind of feeling in terms of emotional,

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Speaker 1: spiritual health, and mental health overall. And if people feel

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Speaker 1: a lot better on the weekends and then they tend

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Speaker 1: to feel a lot worse during the work week, there's

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Speaker 1: a high probability that that's burnout from work or lack

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Speaker 1: of work life balance versus obviously the alternative, which is

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Speaker 1: if there's something that's more in line with seasonal depression

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Speaker 1: or seasonal effective disorder, then you're going to be having

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Speaker 1: the same symptoms on the work week as you would

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Speaker 1: on the weekend. The other thing I would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: that does change a little bit when caveat would be

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Speaker 1: maybe people sleep more on the weekends because they can.

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Speaker 1: But besides that, I would say it can actually shed

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Speaker 1: a lot of light into what the kind of like

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Speaker 1: as I was saying, pulse or real undertone is of

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Speaker 1: what's going on. Additionally, you know, I always ask about

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Speaker 1: vacation time, so how do you feel on vacation versus

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Speaker 1: not And if there's a big discrepancy, that usually points

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Speaker 1: to burnout at work.

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Speaker 3: So we've talked a little bit about how you might

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Speaker 3: be able to distinguish what burnout is. But when someone

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Speaker 3: is experiencing burnout, what would you say is the first

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Speaker 3: plan of attack? What is one of the first things

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Speaker 3: that needs to change in order to treat this scenario.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, I would say a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: That depends on how severe the burnout is or how

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Speaker 1: far down the line you know you are with the burnout.

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Speaker 1: In some cases, it I would say, I'll sometimes recommend

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Speaker 1: a career switch if it's really burnout and fatigue from

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Speaker 1: the work situation and it's not going to change. Because

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that I've been talking to

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Speaker 1: a lot of my patients about more recently is if

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Speaker 1: your work schedule is really stressful and you're working long hours,

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Speaker 1: is it likely to change? Yes or no? And if

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Speaker 1: it's not likely to change, then we have to meet

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Speaker 1: you where you are and figure out things that we

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Speaker 1: can fit into your lifestyle. So that you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: have some time for yourself within that schedule, because the

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Speaker 1: work schedule then is not going to change. If there's

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Speaker 1: flexibility or desire to change that, then I would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe exploring other options in terms of work

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Speaker 1: can be helpful, but that's obviously I would say if

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Speaker 1: things are very severe in terms of mild burnout, or

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Speaker 1: let's say you're experiencing burnout for the first time and

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Speaker 1: you want to make some changes, then again the question

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Speaker 1: would be sort of like, how can we fit things

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Speaker 1: into your current work schedule if it's not going to

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Speaker 1: change or if there isn't any flexibility, or conversely, is

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Speaker 1: there way to rearrange things so that you can have

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Speaker 1: a workout in the morning or have a workout in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon, even to two times a week and then

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Speaker 1: you work out on the weekends and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, you're working out four times a week and

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Speaker 1: there's work life balance, right, So there are ways to

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Speaker 1: build in little things, even like walking at lunchtime or

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Speaker 1: little things like that that might seem silly but will

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Speaker 1: really move the needle over the course of the week.

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Speaker 1: So I do think it's important to have an idea

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Speaker 1: of what lifestyle really looks like, where there are areas

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Speaker 1: of opportunity for change, and then you know what things

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Speaker 1: are really bringing you joy and do we need to

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Speaker 1: add more of those in I.

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Speaker 3: Love that prompt of meeting yourself with where you're at

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Speaker 3: and being honest about what is realistic for you in

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Speaker 3: the moment. I think that it can be extremely overwhelming

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Speaker 3: if maybe you are honest that a career change could

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Speaker 3: be what's best for you, but you're so burnt out

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Speaker 3: that the idea of handling that, navigating that putting any

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Speaker 3: sort of plan to action feels completely daunting.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing is like, I want to set all of my

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Speaker 1: patients up for success, So I don't want to set

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Speaker 1: goals that are unachievable or unrealistic because that's not going

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Speaker 1: to feel good. And then secondly, I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of merit to small steps climbing a mountain, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you don't have to make all the changes

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Speaker 1: at once, but it's important to feel a sense of

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Speaker 1: self efficacy and to feel like you're in control, and

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Speaker 1: oftentimes feeling burned out is a sense of like things

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Speaker 1: just piling up and piling up and feeling like you're

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Speaker 1: just drowning in work or stress or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like being able to take

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Speaker 1: the lid off of that a little bit is something

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Speaker 1: that can be really helpful.

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Speaker 3: Small steps to help you get up the mountain. I

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Speaker 3: love that as well. Now we are in the midst

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Speaker 3: of a seasonal change.

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Speaker 2: You are in New York. I am in New York.

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Speaker 3: It is chillier out today than it has been so far.

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Speaker 3: And with that seasonal change also comes some changes.

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Speaker 2: In all of us.

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Speaker 3: Can we talk a little bit about what happens to

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Speaker 3: us in general when it's getting darker earlier, it's also

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Speaker 3: darker later in the morning.

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean there are natural shifts in our

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Speaker 1: circadian rhythm based on daylight, right, and you know, the

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Speaker 1: body definitely does start to shut down earlier when it

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Speaker 1: gets dark earlier, and it definitely changes, you know, what

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Speaker 1: you want to eat, what you want to do, your

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Speaker 1: activity level. It's harder for all of us to get

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Speaker 1: out of bed in the morning if it's dark out,

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Speaker 1: and it's also harder to want to motivate and go

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Speaker 1: to the gym if you leave work and it's dark,

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Speaker 1: so the winter just becomes a tricky time. I will say,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do think that trying to optimize as

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Speaker 1: much as possible with things that you can fit into

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Speaker 1: your daily routine. So I was smiling and chuckling to

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Speaker 1: myself a little bit because I know that this is

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Speaker 1: maybe not be the most popular recommendation in the winter,

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Speaker 1: but I recommend walking as much as possible, and I

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Speaker 1: recommend getting you know, proper winter boots, in a winter jacket,

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Speaker 1: and walking as much as you can outside because here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Things come up all the time with work

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Speaker 1: or you know, personal stuff, and then it's very easy

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Speaker 1: to kind of forego going to the gym or going

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Speaker 1: to that workout class if you just add walking into

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Speaker 1: your daily routine in the winter, because living in New York,

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Speaker 1: that's something you really can do throughout the course of

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Speaker 1: the week before you know what you've done the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of exercise in terms of the miles or steps that

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Speaker 1: you've walked, right, And so I really try to emphasize

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Speaker 1: things like that in the winter, where you can do

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Speaker 1: functional exercises or just daily movement, which which helps a lot.

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Speaker 1: And then lean into things that you want to do,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's a hot yoga class or hot workout class,

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Speaker 1: which you wouldn't want to do in the summer, and

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Speaker 1: trying to like lean into the seasonal changes so that

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Speaker 1: they balance you and they feel like a fun change,

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Speaker 1: and so that there's variety as opposed to feeling like oh,

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Speaker 1: winter's coming, which is, you know, a feeling we all

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Speaker 1: have sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Feeling we all have sometimes And it sounds so simple, right,

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Speaker 3: investing in a pair of boots, investing in a good

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Speaker 3: winter jacket. But if that sounds also like something that

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Speaker 3: intimidates you, like, oh, you want me to go walk

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Speaker 3: in the cold, then I would encourage you. If you

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Speaker 3: don't have a gym membership where you might get access

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Speaker 3: to something like that, ask yourself, how important is this

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Speaker 3: to me?

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Speaker 2: Right? Because when you have a why, I believe you

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Speaker 2: have a way.

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Speaker 3: And so if you can join a gym for something

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Speaker 3: like a low cost, I think there are some gyms

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Speaker 3: in the city that are as low as thirty to

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Speaker 3: fifty dollars a month, right, ask yourself, where am I

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Speaker 3: spending my money? And is this something that I can

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Speaker 3: prioritize and then invest in? Because when we invest in ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Not only are you then able to better show up

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Speaker 3: for yourself, but then you're also able to show up

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Speaker 3: for all of the other people you care about, whether

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Speaker 3: that be your coworkers, your family, your friends.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly, exactly yeah, And I think that ultimately that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. You know, when you're feeling less burned out,

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Speaker 1: I was with a more elevated mood. Overall, you have

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Speaker 1: more to give at work, and you know, socially and

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Speaker 1: for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Today, I want to.

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Speaker 3: Now switch gears a little bit to talk about that

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Speaker 3: seasonal effective disorder. Talk about what is often referred to

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Speaker 3: as seasonal depression.

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Speaker 2: For those that may be experiencing this for the first time.

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Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about the classic symptoms

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Speaker 3: of seasonal depression.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's typically, as the name suggests, symptoms that

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Speaker 1: will appear seasonally, right, and so people will notice that

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Speaker 1: their mood will start to dip every winter or every

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Speaker 1: fall going into winter. Noticing that you're starting to experience

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Speaker 1: some symptoms of depression. And there's a wide range, but

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Speaker 1: just to highlight a few that sometimes I would say

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Speaker 1: it could be maybe more ambiguous symptoms, but if you're

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Speaker 1: starting to notice this kind of cyclical presentation of the symptoms,

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Speaker 1: it can be helpful to identify this, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: lack of energy or fatigue, change in behavior, change in

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Speaker 1: motivation or energy level, which we you know ties into fatigue,

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Speaker 1: changes in appetite, so under eating or overeating, difficulty with focusing,

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Speaker 1: you know, things like that, which all seem again like

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Speaker 1: they could be kind of either just kind of situational things.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's a weekend, you know, and you're tired from

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Speaker 1: the work week. But if these symptoms kind of start

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Speaker 1: to persist, and then also if they really start to

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Speaker 1: impact your daily life, right, so when they start to

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Speaker 1: impact your level of functioning at work or even with

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Speaker 1: social stuff, you're giving up social events or things like that,

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Speaker 1: you start to notice that it's really impacting your daily life,

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Speaker 1: that's a flag where you know, I would say you

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Speaker 1: should see your doctor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, It's so interesting, right because for me,

440
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 3: when I first experienced depression, it was in the winter months,

441
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: and I recall thinking to myself, I am such a

442
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: high functioning person. I can handle this, like, I will

443
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: figure it out. This is not something that is here

444
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: to stay. I have this strategies, et cetera. And it

445
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: did get to that point where I realized that my

446
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: motivation was waning in such a way that I didn't

447
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 3: really recognize the person that was looking at me back

448
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 3: in the mirror. And so for those individuals that may

449
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 3: have the same mindset that I started with, what do

450
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 3: you say to that?

451
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, I think that sometimes there can

452
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: be a resistance to wanting to take medication for multiple reasons, right,

453
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: or to seek help or treatment and maybe better send

454
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: like management overall. Let's say it's kindnive behavioral therapy. Let's

455
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: say it's medication. Let's say it's a supplement. Maybe it's

456
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: an app or meditation or complementary and alternative medicine. Maybe

457
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: it's acupuncture, you know, whatever works best for you. But

458
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: I think sometimes there can be a little bit of

459
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: resistance to that because it feels like either you're admitting

460
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: that something's wrong, which can be a scary thing, or

461
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: people don't want to feel like they're reliant on medication.

462
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: I think those are probably like the two biggest things

463
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: that I have seen in practice. And I would say,

464
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: like a common myth that I like to dispel is that,

465
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, using medication is something that's negative, it's not right.

466
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: It's there for a reason, and many people experience these

467
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: symptoms and the medications can help, and they can help

468
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: get you through a period of time. They don't have

469
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: to be a forever thing. And I think reframing it

470
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: like that as a you know, you can think about

471
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: it as the same thing as cognitive behavioral therapy or

472
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: acupuncture or talking to a friend. It's a way to

473
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: help support you. It's another support system, right, And I

474
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: think that kind of opening up that door so that

475
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: it feels to normalize it, so that it feels comfortable,

476
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: and you know, ultimately thinking about the quality of life component,

477
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: and I think that's the biggest thing that I also

478
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: try to emphasize, which is that you know, the goal

479
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: is to feel like you're at your best or as

480
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: close to as possible with ups and downs that come

481
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: with life. If it's a consistent thing where the down

482
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: is really you know, I would say, persisting for a

483
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: while and it's impact in your daily life. Then I

484
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: think the risk benefit in terms of seeking treatment just

485
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: really weighs in the opposite direction.

486
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: Right, right, And so for those that may be interested,

487
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: and I do appreciate that you articulated so many different

488
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: pathways that someone can go down, so many different routes

489
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: you can take if you are experiencing these symptoms. But

490
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 3: for someone who does choose to go the medication route,

491
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 3: I would really love if you could articulate a little

492
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 3: bit about what happens when someone goes on a medication

493
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: that would be treating seasonal depression or depression in general.

494
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, so, you know, I guess one thing I

495
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: highlight is that the medications don't work immediately, right, So

496
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: typically to see the maximum effect, we'll be looking at,

497
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, around four weeks for example. Usually I tell Basis,

498
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: they'll start, you know, I would say to feel something

499
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: in about two weeks and then follow up and you know,

500
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: depending around that that phrase, like two to four weeks,

501
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: so that we can see how things are going on

502
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: the medication, because you it takes some time to sort

503
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: of just to it and see how you're feeling and

504
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: things like that. So just to keep that in mind.

505
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: It's not a quick fix, but you will, you know,

506
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: start to feel better once the medication kicks in and

507
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: once you adjust to it generally if it's the right

508
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: medication for you. And then the other thing is is that,

509
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: as I was mentioning, you know, they don't have to

510
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: be a forever thing, especially with seasonal effective disorder like

511
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: that is something that can be treated seasonally and it

512
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: can be really helpful so that you don't lose some

513
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: progress with the wellness routines or you know, health goals

514
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: that you've been working towards, so that you can feel

515
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: productive and maybe excited about the winter as opposed to

516
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: the opposite. And I think that when you can start

517
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: to work with that a little bit more and sort

518
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: of reframing the use of medications in a positive way

519
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: to help your overall trajectory with your health in the

520
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: long run, it can feel more inviting and less stigmatizing

521
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: or like you don't have let's say, as much efficacy

522
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: because you are taking control of your health by taking medication, right,

523
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: And that's an important thing to recognize it doesn't mean

524
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: that you're not, you know, strong enough to overcome the

525
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: depression on your own. You are, you're strong enough with

526
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: using your resources, and that's an important thing because you don't,

527
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, stand alone in life. You have a support

528
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: system and you know, whether that's medication, friends, family, you

529
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: know yourself as well, like all of those things have

530
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: to be used at different times and then that's how

531
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: you ultimately fill your cup.

532
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: Definitely.

533
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: So when someone begins taking a medication like this, you

534
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: told us that two to four week timeline, what is

535
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: happening in that time period?

536
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: What is the medication doing for you?

537
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically what happens is when you take these medications,

538
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: they change your NERD transmitters. So they change the way

539
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: that ner transmitters are being released at the synaptic left

540
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 1: between between neurons right and so really they actually are

541
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: changing these I woke levels of neurotransmitters in your brain. So,

542
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: for example, nor benephrin serotonin, as we've heard the names

543
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: of these medications, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors for example, that's

544
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: the biggest class of drugs that are typically used, so

545
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: like lexapro or Selexa for example, prozac. You know, they

546
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: all fall into that category, and so you know they

547
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: do actually change some of the chemistry in your body

548
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: in terms of physically changing some things in your brain

549
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: and how your brain is responding to your behavior in

550
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: the environment by changing the levels of these neurotransmitters. But

551
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: ultimately it's augmenting what's already there, and so I think

552
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: that's something that's important to recognize that it's not like

553
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: it's manufacturing new neurotransmitters and it's some foreign substance in

554
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: that respect, it's just changing as the name says, it's

555
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: a reuptake inhibitor, so it's helping enhance what's already there.

556
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: And I think that can help to also make it

557
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: feel a little bit more relatable in terms of what

558
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: the medication is actually doing, so it doesn't feel like

559
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: it's something foreign.

560
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: Right, right.

561
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: And I know many individuals that have, as you noted,

562
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: gone off and medication and then years or even maybe

563
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: just a handful of months later, decided, Okay, I'm going

564
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 3: to go back on whether it be the same one

565
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: or try something different. Can you talk a little bit

566
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: about why individuals may make decisions like that, and if

567
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: there is any sort of protocol or things that we

568
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: should be aware of if you are considering going off

569
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: and then maybe eventually you decide it's time to go

570
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 3: back on.

571
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say first things first, I would definitely

572
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: talk to your doctor before you just stop taking it,

573
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: because tapering on and off the medications are important to

574
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: avoid adverse effects. So if you just stop it, either

575
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: you could have rebound symptoms in terms of the worsening

576
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: anxiety or depression symptoms for example, but also side effects,

577
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: so you know, for example, headache, lightheadedness, tingling, you know

578
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So I would say, I'm just

579
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: using some kind of common examples of things that people

580
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: might experience. Or there's one medication in particular that I've

581
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: had patients experience what they call or referred to as zapps,

582
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: like a kind of like almost like a zapp feeling,

583
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: an electric type of not like a shock, but you

584
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like a very mild kind of feeling,

585
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: and that can be avoided by tapering off the medication,

586
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, appropriately or correctly, as opposed to just self

587
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: discontinuing it with Sometimes people will do and it can

588
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: be something as simple as just reducing the dose by

589
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: half for two weeks and then you know, tapering off

590
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: and you avoid all that altogether. The biggest thing though,

591
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: really is just to make sure that you don't get

592
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: worsening anxiety or depression symptoms from immediately stopping the medication.

593
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 1: And also I think that sometimes I can hinder building

594
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: confidence that you can come off the medication, which is

595
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: an important thing to try to protect again, so I

596
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: definitely try to protect against that by doing things slowly

597
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: and in a stepwise fashion where maybe you taper off

598
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: the medication in two months as opposed to in two weeks,

599
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: but you're tapering off, so you know what I mean,

600
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: The long term plan is the focus as opposed to

601
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: just like getting off the medication really quickly. So I

602
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: think it's just good to be intentional for a lot

603
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: of reasons for safety, of course, but then also for

604
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: building confidence in terms of feeling like, you know how

605
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: you feel on the medication off the medication and has

606
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: some control over.

607
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 3: That, right, right, And so then for someone who may

608
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: go off and then a year down the line they

609
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: have an experience that they wonder, is it time to

610
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 3: revisit this?

611
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: How do you know? How do you know if it's

612
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: time to revisit it.

613
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: And earlier you mentioned like if you're realizing that you

614
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: know you're not the best version of yourself, then the

615
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: cost benefit analysis is something that you need to kind

616
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: of evaluate. Right, So how does someone know if maybe

617
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: it's time to revisit Yeah, yeah, so, you.

618
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: Know, I would say a couple of things. I think ultimately,

619
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: as we were talking about before, if things are starting

620
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: to impact your daily life or quality of life, that's

621
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: a big flag to say, Okay, you know, now maybe

622
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: time to talk to my doctor about, you know, how

623
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: severe my symptoms are. I also think that if you

624
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: start to have any severe symptoms, that's definitely a big flag.

625
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: More severe things like want to hurt yourself or anything

626
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: like that, obviously that's a big flag. But I usually

627
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: would say when it starts to interfere with daily functioning

628
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: or activities of daily living, so like you know, you're

629
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: canceling social plans, you're not able to do your work

630
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: as well, you know, things like that, that's a really

631
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: clear indication that if your symptoms may be more than.

632
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: Mild, got it, got it?

633
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: And for someone I know we've been talking about medication

634
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: for the last handful of minutes. But for someone who

635
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: is interested in trying to intervene in this in a

636
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: different way, can we talk about some habit formation or

637
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: things that we can be addressing or incorporating regularly that

638
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 3: might be able to help us lift the mood.

639
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I would say I love having daily

640
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: movement routines. I think being physically active is one of

641
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: the best ways to naturally boost your mood. So I

642
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: definitely recommend that if you can get up and walk

643
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: in the morning, it's ideal. You'll get outside, you'll get

644
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: some vitamin D, you'll get you know, I would say

645
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: some good natural changes in your circadian rhythm and stability

646
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: in that by getting outside in the morning. And then

647
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: also I would say making sure that you have some

648
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: time for yourself, right so time to wind down at

649
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: the end of the day or at the beginning of

650
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: the day, whatever works for you. But having a little

651
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: bit of time where you can sort of be intentional,

652
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: set goals, unwind, and allow the stress from the day

653
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: to kind of dissipate.

654
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 3: Those things will actually go a long way with boosting mood. Yeah,

655
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: I really appreciate that as well. You know, a girlfriend

656
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: came to me feeling really burnt out a week or

657
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: two ago, and I asked her what she was doing

658
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: for it in terms of when she was taking time

659
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: for herself, and she couldn't articulate the last time that

660
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: she dedicated time like it was just as.

661
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: Though her wheels were spinning in the mud.

662
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 3: And so I challenged her that once a week, and

663
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: I mean, let's hope that we can find more than

664
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: once a week for thirty minutes.

665
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: But I said, let's start small.

666
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: I would love next week let me know when you

667
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 3: were planning for thirty minutes of you time and what

668
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: that's going to look like.

669
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: And she came back to me yesterday and said, I.

670
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 3: Want to thank you so much, like this has been

671
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: so impactful for me and I genuinely look forward to

672
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 3: this time block now something that I didn't have before.

673
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: And again, going to that idea of this is something

674
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 3: that's small but doable instills the confidence in you that, Okay,

675
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 3: if I can make this small change, then what else

676
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: is within my power moving forward?

677
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly? And I think that's the biggest thing is

678
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: that I've said it a bunch of times now, but

679
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: feeling it empowered with your health or having that self

680
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: up efficacy really makes a big difference, right, And I

681
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: think that's something that can start to build sort of

682
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: like anxiety, and also the symptoms of depression is if

683
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: you feel a little bit out of control, and so

684
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: specifically for anxiety, feeling like you're taking the control back

685
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: a little bit, and that can be mixed in with

686
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: seasonal effective disorder. Right. There can be anxiety symptoms and

687
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 1: depression symptoms that tend to both surface at the same time.

688
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: Often I feel like I oftentimes see pagies that present

689
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: with both symptoms, right, one more than the other. But

690
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to feel like you have

691
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: control over that in terms of your health, but also

692
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: your schedule and just a little bit of what's going on,

693
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: because it's very easy for things to feel out of

694
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: control when they're changing fast and you know, maybe you

695
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: don't have control over your work schedule or the demands

696
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: during the day and things like that.

697
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again when things are beyond your control with

698
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 3: the seasons and it getting dark out earlier, it just

699
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: feel like a lot. We talked about the timeline of

700
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 3: how long it might take to see a change if

701
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 3: you are using medication, but for someone who is working

702
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: to incorporate some of these other strategies that we spoke about,

703
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 3: the movement, the carving out time for self, maybe even journaling,

704
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: which we'll talk about in a moment. How long would

705
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: you recommend they go down this route before they say, okay,

706
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: is something else necessary here?

707
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think, you know, lifestyle modifications are complementary,

708
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: and alternative therapies can be great. I would say I

709
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: would give them, and even you know, cognitive behavioral therapy,

710
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: I would give give it some time in the sense

711
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: of it usually is not an immediate fix. It takes

712
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: at least a few weeks. Also, so depending on the

713
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: severity of symptoms, if there is room to try this

714
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: first where it feels comfortable and it feels right, then

715
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: I would give it a month.

716
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 2: Give it a month, okay.

717
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: So there's also so much research that we've seen that

718
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: gratitude and a gratitude practice of sorts can really impact

719
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: overall move.

720
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 2: And sense of well being.

721
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: Where do you stand on someone integrating that regularly and

722
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 3: can it really have as much of an impact as

723
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: we hear it does.

724
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that having your gratitude

725
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: practice is a great idea, you know, whe or without

726
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: a seasonal effective disorder. And I would say this, I

727
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: think that without a doubt, there's a lot of data

728
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: and research to show that mindset is powerful. And so

729
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: having a positive mindset, being grateful for everything in your

730
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: life and recognizing that perspective where sometimes it just takes

731
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: a minute to kind of zoom out a little bit

732
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: and then everything falls back into place and it can

733
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: help kind of reset our mental focus. And it can

734
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: be very easy to kind of end up with blinders

735
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: on when we're going about the day. Things are really stressful,

736
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on, you know, inside of work,

737
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: outside of work, in the house, outside of the house,

738
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: and so just taking a moment to kind of just

739
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: let everything settle and come back to what's really important

740
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: and can be really grounding.

741
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: What can a gratitude practice look like?

742
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are a lot of ways to do it.

743
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: It can be something that's just internal within yourself. You

744
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: can say it kind of mentally, you can say it verbally,

745
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: you could write it down, you can share it with

746
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: a friend or family member. There are a lot of

747
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: ways to do it.

748
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: You know, I've kind of taken all of those approaches

749
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 3: over the years at different times. Right, And although my

750
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 3: most regularly used strategy is just one line a day

751
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 3: of something that I was grateful for over the twenty

752
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: four hours at the end of my journal entry in

753
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 3: the morning, I do find that there's something really special

754
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 3: about sharing that practice with someone else because then you

755
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: get also an accountability buddy. It's really promising, it feels

756
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: really fulfilling, and it's something to look forward to.

757
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree. There's also something very i would say,

758
00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: not fun, but impactful about sharing something with someone else.

759
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: It's like an accountability thing. It's it kind of invites

760
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: a recognition that you're doing the thing, whatever it is,

761
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: but also it gives a little bit of power behind

762
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: that recognition of the gratitude.

763
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

764
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 3: Now, as we start to wind down here a little bit,

765
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: I do want to talk a little bit about a

766
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: strategy that worked for me in the past when combating burnout.

767
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: And that is what all designate breaking the matrix.

768
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: So maybe I'm sitting at my desk, I'm realizing that

769
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 3: I'm not being as productive as I would like to be.

770
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: Things aren't really clicking for me, and so instead of

771
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: sitting here and staring at the eighteenth Google doc of

772
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: the day, I'll get up and I'll do something different

773
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 3: along the lines of that suggestion of breaking the matrix.

774
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: What else do you recommend that someone does to combat

775
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: significant burnout?

776
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, this is actually a method that's

777
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: used for ADHD. But the Pomodoro method I think is great.

778
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: It's essentially time blogging, right. So I think it's important

779
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: to build in mental breaks throughout the day because, as

780
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: I was saying before, to circle back to the beginning

781
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: of the podcast, we all have a finite amount of bandwidth, right,

782
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: and so at a certain point you do need a

783
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: little bit of break from that stimulation. So I think

784
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: it can be helpful to do that in many different ways,

785
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: sometimes taking real breaks where you aren't looking at a screen,

786
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: you're listening to a podcast or a song or something

787
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: you like for five minutes. Maybe it's taking a break

788
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: and going for a walk, even if you're on a

789
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: call at that time. It's a change of pace, a

790
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: change of energy, change an environment. But I do think

791
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: it's really important to have those mental and physical breaks

792
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: during the day so that your mind can reset.

793
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: Right.

794
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: So, if you wanted to follow the Pomodoro method to

795
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: a t what would that exercise look like?

796
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically you would set periods of time where

797
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: you're working and then you'd have a built in break

798
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: there and you would say, okay, so I'll just give

799
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: an example. But like maybe you'd say you're gonna work

800
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: for twenty minutes and then you're gonna take a five

801
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: minute break, and you would not work for those five

802
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: minutes for example. Doing things like that can really really

803
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: help to break up the day a little bit, and

804
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: if you kind of know that a break is coming,

805
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: it'll actually make you more efficient in that time that

806
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: you have.

807
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, by time blocking my schedule, whether or

808
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: not I incorporate that five minute break after the twenty

809
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 3: minute to do period, I do feel like I have

810
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 3: a sense of accountability with myself, Like, no, this is

811
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: the time block that I plan to write this email,

812
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: or this is the time block that I plan to

813
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 3: research what I want to speak about with this guest,

814
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: for instance. And for me, it really does, yeah, keep

815
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: me accountable and keep me for the most part productive.

816
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly same same. I trying to do it

817
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: as much as I can. Now.

818
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: I feel like more individuals are recognizing that they are

819
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 3: experiencing burnout or seasonal depression because it's something that we're

820
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: talking about more.

821
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: Is that something that you agree with?

822
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, I think it's important also to recognize,

823
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: as you said, that these things are being more widely

824
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: recognized as normal and a certain respect. But are we

825
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: normalizing it? And is that a good thing? Right? So?

826
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: Are we all supposed to be burned out? I don't

827
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: think so, but it's definitely at least coming now into

828
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: the limelight where it's something to talk about and recognize.

829
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: Is is this normal? Is this adding to my life

830
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: and the trajectory of where I want to be in

831
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: five years from now or not? You know? And I

832
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: think sometimes it's important to recognize that in terms of

833
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: like is this the path that I want to be on?

834
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: Question mark?

835
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: What an interesting question to pose? Is burnout just something

836
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 3: that is normal?

837
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: Now?

838
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 2: Am I supposed to be experiencing burnout?

839
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: But there's that wonderful phrase of like, don't confuse working

840
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: long hours worth working hard? Right? And so you know,

841
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: sometimes I think that it can be seen as kind

842
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: of like a badge of honor, especially when you're you know,

843
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: maybe work initially in the workforce, or you're working a

844
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: job that's you perceived as very challenging that you know,

845
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: you're burned out because you're very stressed, and you're stressed

846
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: because the job is hard, and so, you know, I

847
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: think there are a lot of type A personalities that

848
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: want to work hard and achieve, and so you're going

849
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: to constantly be trying to overachieve or you know, make

850
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: sure that you're working to your highest, highest level, and

851
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: that can create burnout. So I think it's important to

852
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: have some roadblocks in place to make sure that you're

853
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: not overdoing it and you're paying attention to those little

854
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: flags that are your body's way of saying, hey, I

855
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: need a little time for myself.

856
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: Roadblocks in place.

857
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: So this goes back to setting aside time for yourself,

858
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 3: making sure that you're moving your body, and also perhaps

859
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 3: talking about your experience with friends and family exactly exactly

860
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 3: here to reiterate perfect. All right, Well this has been

861
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 3: so so helpful.

862
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: I'm curious. Have you experienced burnout, doctor Sharp?

863
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's why I transition to where I am

864
00:43:58,320 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: now in private practice.

865
00:43:59,760 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

866
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I would say there are a lot

867
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: of different ways to experience burnout. But I think it's

868
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: recognizing again sort of you know how the work that

869
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: you're doing every day is adding to where you want

870
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: to be and what your trajectory is overall in terms

871
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: of that work life balance, and if you find that

872
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: it's not serving you figuring out a path that is.

873
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: I love that.

874
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: That's such great advice, and I really appreciate both all

875
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: of the insight that you offered us today and so

876
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 3: many helpful tips that we can integrate moving forward to

877
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Speaker 3: both combat burnout and then perhaps treat seasonal depression if

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Speaker 3: that's something that someone is going through now.

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Speaker 2: For those that aren't following along with you, just yet

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Speaker 2: give us the information.

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00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 3: How can we keep up with you on social to

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Speaker 3: get more exciting tips moving forward?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So you can find me at doctor Elizabeth Sharp

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Speaker 1: that's the Instagram handle, or at Health meets Wellness. You

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00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: can also visit our website or you can call the

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00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: office at nine one seven eight three three five two

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Speaker 1: three four five.

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Speaker 2: Two three four amazing.

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Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily Badi and at Hurdle Podcast Another

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Speaker 3: Hurdle Concord.

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Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time,