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Speaker 1: Celeb Frida, you look so beautiful in the San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: like the wind making your rough dresses.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I know, Diego, you love my traditional Mexican dresses,

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Speaker 2: But do you love them as much as the Russian

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Speaker 2: whores or the French horse?

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Speaker 1: Hi? Can I take your order? Two espressos please? One

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Speaker 1: double espresso for my beautiful wife, Frito please, and a

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Speaker 1: plate of fruits. Would you like anything else, my love?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: The only thing I would like in addition to a

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Speaker 2: beautiful plate of fruits would be your head on a platter. Oh,

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Speaker 2: you disgusting obies. Man, I hate that I've married you.

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Speaker 1: Oh but Frita, you're so sexy when you're mad and

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Speaker 1: your backstay is so stiff because of your back issues,

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Speaker 1: and then your bosom drops out and gets out plump

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Speaker 1: because you're so mad at me. That would be just

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Speaker 1: two espress So my wife is menstrating and it makes

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Speaker 1: her so powerful when she does. Okay, I'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: I want to paint you this afternoon. Let's go by

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Speaker 1: the sea and I want you to sit and I

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Speaker 1: want to paint you.

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Speaker 2: They go, I'm too busy. I have my own paintings

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Speaker 2: to make. Yes, my breasts are heaving, and they are heavy,

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Speaker 2: and they are almost hard to detach. But I don't

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Speaker 2: want you looking at me right now. You have all

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Speaker 2: the other girls to look at.

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Speaker 1: Oh, the other girls are nothing. I mean, of course, yes,

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Speaker 1: I love making love with women across the globe, whether

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Speaker 1: they're Russian or Italian, or Spanish or just a plain

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Speaker 1: or Jaine from your God.

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Speaker 2: But here you describe your affairs. For some reason, it

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Speaker 2: turns me on. Here you fucking discussed in Tretsky.

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Speaker 1: I have a meeting at five o'clock with Ford. I

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Speaker 1: hate the politics and I hate the selling of cars

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Speaker 1: because I am but a communist who believes in workers.

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Speaker 1: But I think you look so beautiful outimal.

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Speaker 2: I cannot argue with that, the divine feminine in this

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Speaker 2: metal steel, ghastly machine.

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Speaker 1: Waiter, waiter, Do you have a pen and paper or

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Speaker 1: receipt anything, a napkin?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: This is it. This is gonna be my new Fresco.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be you in the mountains north of

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Speaker 1: Mexico City, and then cars cascading down the mountains into

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Speaker 1: a factory. Well, then there will be a portrait of

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Speaker 1: all these American workers. You inspire me.

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Speaker 2: This is beautiful. Your mind. It is a terrible thing,

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Speaker 2: but the one thing for which I am more grateful

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Speaker 2: than anything in this world. I will die because of

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Speaker 2: your passions and your poisons.

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Speaker 1: I will die for you.

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Speaker 4: Who's that knocking at the door.

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Speaker 2: It's all your friends, you filthy horse. Your husband's gone

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Speaker 2: and you've got books and a bottle of wine.

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Speaker 1: Hill. It's Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: It's books, it's gossip. I'm sure. Don't Celebrity Book Club

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Speaker 4: to read it while it's hot. Celebrity book Club.

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Speaker 1: Tell your secrets.

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Speaker 3: We won't talk celebrity book No.

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Speaker 2: Boys are a loud.

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Speaker 1: Say it loud and clouds.

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Speaker 3: Celebrity book Club.

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Speaker 1: Buzz me in. I brought the queer fell ola migokpasa

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Speaker 1: literally kay the fuck capasa okapasa, of course, is what's up?

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Speaker 1: In Spanish?

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Speaker 2: For those of you who don't know, Spanish is one

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Speaker 2: of our favorite language. It is if you know, you

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Speaker 2: know literally no. As I've said, if you growed up

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Speaker 2: in America, you do speak Spanish. You just need to

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Speaker 2: find it. It's in there.

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Speaker 1: I agree. And even though someone who to Spanish about

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Speaker 1: high school and I feel like I don't remember a

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Speaker 1: lot of it, I think I do. I think it's fair.

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Speaker 2: It's muscle memory.

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Speaker 1: I need to access it. Why are we talking about

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Speaker 1: the Spanish language.

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Speaker 2: Because we are talking about a Spanish speaking.

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Speaker 1: Spanish speaking artist, one of the most famous Mexican artists,

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Speaker 1: but one of the most famous artists. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: ahead and say.

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Speaker 2: He's definitely up there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you've heard of him, You've absolutely heard of him,

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Speaker 1: certainly when.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about North American we're talking about Western ham.

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Speaker 1: Oh, when the western of the ham is involved. Even

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Speaker 1: though he seems to kind of.

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Speaker 2: He actually is so into like European art, yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: even though he's like, I'm obsessed with being a Mexican artist. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's very passionate about everything, right.

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Speaker 1: So he loves Eastern Europe.

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Speaker 2: But yet like everything he experiences, he feels just extremely

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Speaker 2: excited by this book.

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Speaker 1: Is so passionate. Yeah, it's one of the most passionate

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Speaker 1: men I've ever met through text.

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Speaker 2: I think, is he toxic? We'll discuss. Of course, we're

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 1: None other than Thrida's.

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Speaker 2: Husband, famous Mexican painter muralists.

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Speaker 1: He they Diego Rivera and his.

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Speaker 2: Book My Art, My Life and not the biography.

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Speaker 1: So people, how do you pick the books? This was

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Speaker 1: kind of a classic. It just came to me. I

103
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Speaker 1: was at a totally weird bookstore on Coney Island Avenue,

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Speaker 1: one of those bookstores you walk in you feel like,

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Speaker 1: m am, I in another dimension, because anyone walked in

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Speaker 1: here in thirty to seventy years. So the die or

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Speaker 1: Vera book opened up to a page and it was

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Speaker 1: like already just being so like Marviana slashed my back

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Speaker 1: and then we made love and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm paying the four ninety five for this one.

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Speaker 2: You were like, somebody has lived a raucous life and

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Speaker 2: I want to die of the FM. So, of course,

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Speaker 2: for those of you who don't know, Diego Rivera sort

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Speaker 2: of born in the nineteenth century, did live well throughout

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century, lived through two wars, died around in

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Speaker 2: the fifties free to Callo as you may know, the una.

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Speaker 1: Brow famous sexual so like they.

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Speaker 2: Were communists, and he was very politically active in various

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Speaker 2: like revolutionary activities like overthrowing the dictator of Mexico, and

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Speaker 2: then sort of like skirting involvement in World War One.

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Speaker 2: He kind of like slithered out of that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: as we all do.

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Speaker 1: Oh, of course he's slithered out of World War One.

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Speaker 1: But I mean the book begins with him at eight

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Speaker 1: years old, you know, drafting beautiful battle plans and war

126
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Speaker 1: treaties and the Mexican army is like, oh, please, will

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Speaker 1: you join? And he's like, but I am just eight.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I mean some of these stories are just like did

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Speaker 2: this happen?

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Speaker 1: No, a little didn't happen, so he said.

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Speaker 2: Literally at eight, He's like, I was like just crafting

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Speaker 2: these like insanely complex, like Napoleonic plans for invasions, because

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Speaker 2: it sounds like a little bit like you know, autistic

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Speaker 2: dad in the basement with all the little figure names. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and he's like making all these little like foam corek

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Speaker 2: hutouts of the czar and all the soldiers, and like

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Speaker 2: somehow the generals of Mexico find his his paper.

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Speaker 1: Well, at first the dad like finds it and is

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Speaker 1: mad because he thinks they're like forlater and he's like,

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Speaker 1: not my son, yeah, forging battle plans.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, no, Papa, they are mine.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, well, let's go to the generals.

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Speaker 1: And then it's like all these generals smoking pipes and

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Speaker 1: he's eight and they're just being like yes, and they

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Speaker 1: give him cognac and they're all just like, my, my,

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Speaker 1: this is the best battle plan I've ever seen in

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Speaker 1: my entire life. You must join us now and lead

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Speaker 1: us to war and the revolution. And he's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Papa can I And they're like, let's go to the

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Speaker 1: president and ask for a law where they let kids

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Speaker 1: into the army at age twelve.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, and they did pass the law so

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Speaker 2: that I could become the next general, Simo, and you're

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Speaker 2: just like A he was like, but then I was

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Speaker 2: more into painting.

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Speaker 1: So he's like kind of left that dream. I do think,

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Speaker 1: you know, this book, while is a little bit maybe

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Speaker 1: more kind of influenced by magical realism, like yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a memoir.

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Speaker 2: Right, very Gabriel Garcia.

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Speaker 1: More cuz Yeah, but you know, I think.

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Speaker 2: When I haven't read yeah who famous for the yourmgical

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Speaker 2: thinking right.

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Speaker 1: Where it's just like, you know, I think the mythos

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Speaker 1: in Mexican history is kind of a large part of Yes.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, I think some stuff happened is

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Speaker 1: some stuff embellished, right.

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Speaker 2: And it's interacting with myth. You could say it's auto

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Speaker 2: fiction in a way, and he's the original Rachel Cuss.

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Speaker 1: Diego Rivera walked so Rachel Cuss could run. In the beginning,

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Speaker 1: if I may go back to really his early childhood.

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Speaker 2: He was a twin, so he's haunted by the fact

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Speaker 2: that he's a twin and his brother died like a

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Speaker 2: week later of pneumonia. Obviously, it's like, even though this

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Speaker 2: is happening in the twentieth century, it still seems like

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Speaker 2: everyone's getting their leg amputated, dying of meningitis and tuberculosis

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Speaker 2: like every five minutes. In this book, Freda had like

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Speaker 2: five miscarriages. His mom continues to try to have kids,

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Speaker 2: and it's just always having stillborns constantly.

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Speaker 1: And everyone's always like crying at a vigil and going

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Speaker 1: to church, and he's like, I hate the Gothic church.

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Speaker 1: I won't go. But so since his mom is so depressed,

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Speaker 1: they send her to midwife school so she can get

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Speaker 1: a job and be distracted tea.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, and it totally worked, because she was

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Speaker 2: literally living in the cemetery by his little brother's grave

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Speaker 2: and she wouldn't leave it. And they were like she's

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Speaker 2: going to go mad unless she gets a job.

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Speaker 1: Oh do we prevent her from lunacy?

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Speaker 2: And I'm a little bit like some of you need that,

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Speaker 2: some of y'all. I'm looking at Bushwick Kannie. Yeah, like

193
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Speaker 2: some of y'all are going mad without a job.

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Speaker 1: Let's send you to it T tech. And I think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be a lot happier. So they send him

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Speaker 1: to live with this woman in the mountains who he

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Speaker 1: considers much more of his mother than his actual mother, Antonia. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and like he's always like being smothered into Antonia's breasts.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, basically, my real parents are Antonia

200
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Speaker 1: and this goat who I would hang out with every

201
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Speaker 1: single day and drink milk from the utters, right, And

202
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Speaker 1: he was like, my body became so advanced from the

203
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Speaker 1: goat milk that when I returned to my mother, like

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Speaker 1: he claims it was too advanced for his age, but that.

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Speaker 2: He also describes himself as being like insanely obese.

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Speaker 1: Well that's later on, Oh guess.

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Speaker 2: He's twenty, but that I arrived in Standa the sixth

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Speaker 2: of January nineteen oh six. I was twenty years old,

209
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Speaker 2: over six feet all and weigh three hundred pounds. But

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Speaker 2: I was a dynamo of energy, and he's like a

211
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Speaker 2: big boy his whole life.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing I mean, I think because he was

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Speaker 1: so maybe advanced for his age, if I may read

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Speaker 1: a passage here, my first experience.

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Speaker 2: Of love virginity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this kind of sets the stage for say

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Speaker 1: it with me him being a p I am pee

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Speaker 1: the pea standing for Polly of great importance to me

219
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Speaker 1: at this period was my first experience of sexual love.

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Speaker 1: My mistress was a young American teacher at the Protestant school.

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Speaker 1: She was eighteen years old and as beautiful and sensitive

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Speaker 1: a creature as Anny I have known. Though I was

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Speaker 1: only nine, I was already virile. It excited her to

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Speaker 1: discover in me an unsuspected, deep rooted masochism, and she

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Speaker 1: would thrill me by reciting stories about the Holy Martyrs.

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Speaker 1: With her, I came to manhood suddenly and completely mispare

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Speaker 1: the torment of solitary yearning, which is the usual lot

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Speaker 1: of a growing boy. I'm like, I'm dead that He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had sex at nine, so I'd have to be

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Speaker 1: like all other twelve year old boys, just like jerking.

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Speaker 2: Off, I'm so sad and I was just fucking Mary

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Speaker 2: Kayla turnout like clerical ass teacher talking about like all

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Speaker 2: of the saints and.

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Speaker 1: Like he's getting off and she's like and then this

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Speaker 1: saint saints, Stephen was stoned to death, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Like he's trying to make it be like so religious

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Speaker 2: and Catholica and just be like it was so like

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Speaker 2: Maia and like there's like blood coming out of like

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Speaker 2: the Jesus' eyes like while he's coming. But it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit like actually, just she's just a freaky little

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Speaker 2: Mary Kayla turnout.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, she's a freak. And then he sleeps with

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Speaker 1: like another woman. Then he's like and that I actually

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Speaker 1: didn't fuck till I was like four years later, Like

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Speaker 1: I had a total dry space.

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Speaker 2: From nine to thirteen was crazy dry for me. And

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Speaker 2: he's like and then I met another like twenty two

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Speaker 2: year old and.

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Speaker 1: So like after his kind of he decides like he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to be a revolutionary. He like goes to

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Speaker 1: art school because he realized he loves the work of

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Speaker 1: the pencil.

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Speaker 2: Wait, can we just say his full name, which she

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Speaker 2: says on page three. Dio Maria dela concept on Juan

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Speaker 2: Muceno Estani Slau de la Rivera, Ibarrientos Acosta I Rodriguez.

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Speaker 1: So sexy, oh sexy. And you know Frida was always

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Speaker 1: like sane, like yeah, being like you come here right now,

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Speaker 1: you come to my bedside.

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Speaker 2: And she's bashing him in the frying pan. And he's

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Speaker 2: just like, ah, forgive me, but you know, I'm a dog,

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Speaker 2: and she's just like, I do know.

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Speaker 1: He's a dog. This whole book is basically him being like,

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Speaker 1: I am a dog and I will never stop being

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Speaker 1: a dog. Like he's very honest, oh ben doggery, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, look, I never like said I could be faithful,

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Speaker 1: and if you thought I could, like, check your damn self.

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Speaker 2: So he goes to school and he wins a contest

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Speaker 2: upon his friend's being rude for coming up with the

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Speaker 2: dirtiest insult. My prize winning obscenity was copulate with your

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Speaker 2: mother and goggle with her menstrual juice. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: this interesting motif throughout the book of Menstruation manash as

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Speaker 2: we say in some communities, and it's like he is

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Speaker 2: so like a guy who's grossed up by feriance, which

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Speaker 2: is very immature, I think in this way, because I

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Speaker 2: think there's some of his being actually like hyper mature

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Speaker 2: at a young age, and like they put him in

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Speaker 2: the army at nine, and like losing the Virginia nine

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Speaker 2: is actually kind of an arrested development because he was

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Speaker 2: like adulted too much as a child, and so now

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Speaker 2: then as an adult, he's actually more childish and is

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Speaker 2: a little much just more like you period. Because there's

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Speaker 2: that moment when he literally gets in the fight with

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Speaker 2: Minerva or whatever and she's like, yeah, we couldn't have

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Speaker 2: sex and she was in her period. Gross, and then

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Speaker 2: she tried to kill.

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Speaker 1: Me, and it's like, yeah, I would slash her ass too.

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Speaker 1: This part is damn crazy where it's like he's about

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Speaker 1: to leave one of his were they officially married. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to keep trying.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he was cheating on Angeline, his first wife with.

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Speaker 1: With Marvina, yeah, and then.

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Speaker 2: In Paris and like doing so many paintings.

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Speaker 1: He wants to like leave Marvina for.

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Speaker 2: Well, he wants to go back to Angeline, which is

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Speaker 2: so I mean again the dog great just being like

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Speaker 2: he literally like left Angeline to go like live with

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Speaker 2: this other one for six months. And that was kind

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Speaker 2: of just like, I don't know, you're on your period.

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Speaker 2: You're crazy. I'm kind of done with you. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go back to Angeline.

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Speaker 1: And then Marvena as He's like, well, I wouldn't suck

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Speaker 1: her because she was on her period, but he was like,

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Speaker 1: I guess we could have like one last nineteen twenties

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Speaker 1: like embrace kiss. In nineteen seventeen, I left Angeline and

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Speaker 1: lived with Marvin as my wife for half a year, ineverabbly.

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Speaker 1: It was an unhappy union, filled with excruciating intense which

307
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: slapped us both. At last we greet, it was impossible

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Speaker 1: for us to live together any longer. Before we parted, however,

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Speaker 1: Marvina asked for one last twyst but this meeting proved

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Speaker 1: frustrating because she had begun to manstrate. As I was

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Speaker 1: leaving her hotel room intending to return to Angeline, Marvina

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Speaker 1: embrace me. A knife was hidden in her sleeve, and

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Speaker 1: as I kissed her for the last time, she carved

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Speaker 1: a wide gash in the back of my neck in

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Speaker 1: the same place where years before, the mounted policeman of

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Speaker 1: Diaz had struck me with his sword. All at once,

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Speaker 1: I began to hear many small golden bells ringing, each

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Speaker 1: no clear than the one before, the carrion, ending with

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Speaker 1: a cathedral like chime whose reverberation seemed to penetrate to

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Speaker 1: the center of my brain. As I lay on the

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Speaker 1: floor unconscious, Marvina cut her throat. Neither of us died. However,

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Speaker 1: this part is so peggy Gugenheim. A few days later,

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Speaker 1: Marvina was again sitting at the cafe tables with the

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Speaker 1: bandage around her neck, which, with the war having just ended,

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Speaker 1: was quite in fashion.

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Speaker 2: That a couple of days later, she's just like halving

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Speaker 2: her coffee.

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Speaker 1: She's having like absinthe and espresso. Why like Barcelona cafe.

329
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Speaker 2: Why is the yack bandage in fashion post war like?

330
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Speaker 2: Because everyone had just been like h I injured in

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Speaker 2: the war.

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Speaker 1: It's literally Red Cross Court.

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Speaker 2: Where everyone's in casts and slings.

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Speaker 3: Club sty book club.

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Speaker 2: Wait the part where he says when he goes to

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Speaker 2: Spain and he's like studying there and he always wore

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Speaker 2: a sombrero because it was the only hat that would

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Speaker 2: fit his huge head, his massive house. And he's just

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Speaker 2: wearing his sombrero like every day because he's like those

340
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,800
Speaker 2: little Spanish Fodoras wouldn't fit my huge head, because I'm amongst.

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Speaker 1: Rusted him going into a Fedora store and he's like

342
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Speaker 1: trying it on and they're like, so it simply doesn't fit.

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Speaker 1: He goes back to his like beautiful little apartment and

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, back to the sombrero.

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Speaker 2: Because of course you have to. So he goes to

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Speaker 2: art school and he starts to kind of lay out

347
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 2: his philosophy about art. He starts to learn about pre

348
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 2: conquest art in Mexico, so the indigenous art as tech art,

349
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,919
Speaker 2: Indian art, and he's like, oh, this art is so

350
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 2: much more expressive and colorful, vibrant and interesting and like.

351
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Speaker 1: Like conservative colonial yes.

352
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 2: Like you know, suck all the old world styles and

353
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Speaker 2: so rather I was like, okay, yeah, he's like really

354
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Speaker 2: into this inous art. He places his art within that,

355
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 2: like grand tradition, is inspired by those like color palettes

356
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,640
Speaker 2: in that style. But then it's like okay, like fuck Renoir.

357
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 2: But then he's just like I love Renoir.

358
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Speaker 1: And he's well, I mean Seison was like more of

359
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 1: like an Impressionist, and like he's into the newer people,

360
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: and of course it's into Cubism and becomes a Cubist briefly.

361
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 1: But he's but he's also like very much into all

362
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: the old masters and is like, you know, I was

363
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: really impressed.

364
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 2: By one more and I'm learning for all of them.

365
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: And of course so Striker, He's like I love Goya

366
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 2: and I love Hieronymous Bosh and like have freaky and

367
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: fucked up they were, and like he's going to the

368
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 2: Prado or or He's just like I sat in front

369
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 2: of the Goya. Yeah, because I'm different. I'm not like

370
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 2: other guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I sat in front of the Goya for hours because.

372
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 2: Some people are freaked out by it, but not me.

373
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: Sorry, not me.

374
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Speaker 2: But he did want to talk about his art for

375
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Speaker 2: a second.

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00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was wondering, like, are you a fam.

377
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm for the book. I guess I'm of too mind.

378
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 2: So it's like I feel like his art has this

379
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 2: kind of very like matte rounded quality to it, and

380
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 2: like the figures are always very rounded and like very large,

381
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 2: which I think does have like this indigenous connection. It

382
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,959
Speaker 2: has like there's like a real like fecundity to it.

383
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 2: Like I feel like it's very like the divine feminine,

384
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 2: and everyone's very like you know, round and like life giving.

385
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: He loves he loves women as much as.

386
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 2: Every everything is like a breast.

387
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: It's like, yes, he is a dog, but he also

388
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 1: is like I love women and I want to like

389
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: honor like the indigenous women that are Antonia's ancestors.

390
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 2: Yes, and so it's like a kind of against this

391
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: like more angular like classical European style, but like you know,

392
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 2: the like flatness sometimes talking about where it's like it

393
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: feels like there's like a kind of a pesteliness, and

394
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 2: he talks about loving pesteles too, Like I feel like

395
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 2: that's a very much a precursor inspiration to like the

396
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 2: Nicole Eisenman's of our era. And then like all of

397
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 2: the queer artists who like copy Nicole eisim in now,

398
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 2: which is just like what they're like domestic scenes where

399
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 2: it is like the knee is like so big, and

400
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 2: like everything is kind of like rounded and like has

401
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,479
Speaker 2: this very like life giving like quality to it.

402
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 1: Well, it's just he talked about how Americans looked down

403
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: on murals, which became his main thing because I think

404
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: Americans was probably still do today, see it as kind

405
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 1: of just like public art.

406
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: Right, and he was like became such a big fan

407
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 2: of public art. Was like, oh, I mean this was

408
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: you know during the thirties and everything.

409
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: Right what his became like more political and about like

410
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: I'm doing labor workers and like here's Stalin but like

411
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: next to a big breasted woman, like next to a

412
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: car factory.

413
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: And there was this great moment of course, and you

414
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: know in like the WPA and like America was having

415
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 2: this moment with the New Deal where we were like

416
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 2: maybe going to like we're embracing more like socialist concepts

417
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: and like building these grand train stations and like grand

418
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 2: public spaces that could be enjoyed by all. And so

419
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 2: it was like a great fit for that kind of

420
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 2: political theorizing.

421
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 1: And then though there was an insane controversy though where Rockefeller, yeah,

422
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: commissioned him for this massive.

423
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: Mural what we're calling the Lenin Affair.

424
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: And then Rockefeller's like, ooh no, you're going to go

425
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: ahead and have to cover that up. And it was

426
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: like this big thirties drama and there is a weird

427
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: movie in nineteen ninety nine based off of it.

428
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 2: Oh wa wait, so I want to talk about this.

429
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: So Rockefeller asks him to do this mural and the

430
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 2: lobby of some building in Manhattan or is it?

431
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally want to say it's gonna go ahead.

432
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 2: And be Rockefeller thirty. And so like his murals like

433
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: de pict these really kind of like grand crazy scenes

434
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: where there's like lots of different workers and historical figures

435
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: and it's just like Stalin like handing like a piece

436
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: dove to Uncle Sam and.

437
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: You know, and then it's like train workers and then

438
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: it's like a jazz musician.

439
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 2: But in this one mural that Rockefeller had commissioned him for,

440
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: there was Lenin and like, Lenin, by the way, is

441
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: dead at this point. This is in the thirties, and

442
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: he's like, Lenin is this symbol of like the workers,

443
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: and like this is about celebrating the workers in the

444
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 2: working class. And of course, at this time and America,

445
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 2: communism was starting to be this thing that people were

446
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: really like, we're gunst and so they really did not

447
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: want Lenin in this mural, and there was this controversy

448
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 2: over and he was like, I'm not going to remove

449
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: Lenin from it, and they basically were.

450
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: Like, okay, well we're gonna remove.

451
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: Your entire thing. So Brokefell cuts in the check kicks

452
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 2: him out of the lobby, and then they literally like

453
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: cover it up and then they destroy the entire mural.

454
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 1: Which is pretty insane, and then his lawyers like, you

455
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: should sue Rockefeller for two hundred and fifty thousand.

456
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 2: Dollars because he also was then kind of banned from

457
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: making ear in the US for a while.

458
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: Same.

459
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: Honestly, I mean he should have sued, but then he

460
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: was just like, ugh, it's gonna be such a thing.

461
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: I kind of agree, he's like, maybe I should just

462
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: move on and yeah, make some fresco.

463
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: Because it's a little bit more about like bat being

464
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: than like the folk hero for having him.

465
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: It's kind of more badass to be like I panted this,

466
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: it got covered up. I'm out.

467
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. But also, okay, this is so like cancel culture,

468
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: where it's like he does that and then you would think, Okay,

469
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: he'd be such a hero, and then he's like oddly enough.

470
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: Communist leaders such as Robert Minor, Sidney Bloomfield, and my

471
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: old friend Joe Freeman, editor of the New Masses, denounced

472
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: the work as reactionary and counter revolutionary and condemned me

473
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: for having betrayed the Masses. By painting in capitalistic buildings,

474
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: you can't win. So Instagram, I'm just being like, actually,

475
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: let's talk about he is actually a full reactionary because

476
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: this painting depends on Lenin.

477
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: Posting Like, so you may have been support of this painting,

478
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: but do know that he was actually paid by Rockefeller

479
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: who paid him two undred and fifty thousand dollars.

480
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: That's a blood of money, yes, is it?

481
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: Okay? So if you do support that painting, no, And

482
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: then he was excommunicated from the Communist Party and he

483
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 1: keeps on like begging and sending them letters to let

484
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: him back in, and they're like no, and then they

485
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: finally let him back in. Like in the fifties.

486
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 2: This does the problem with sort of leftism and all

487
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: organizing where it's just it all becomes a circular hearings

488
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: what and it's all about purity and just like intro

489
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 2: and like it's always going to devolve into that. Okay,

490
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: but back to the art, Okay.

491
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: Sure, I actually don't think of it as so flat.

492
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you use that word.

493
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: I think because there's a lot of like big expanses

494
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: of like one color, Like there's big areas in it.

495
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying where it's like big, yeah,

496
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: but even the like like on the knee or on

497
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: the head, on the flower, it's like here's like a

498
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: big area of all one color, Like there's kind of

499
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: a pointless thing happening too with like.

500
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: I feel it's I don't get flat. I get much

501
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: more like multi dimensional, almost like trippy with the colors

502
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: and shapes.

503
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: I agree with that as well. But do you see

504
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: but I mean maybe Matt is the better word. Do

505
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 2: you know what I mean by Matt?

506
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: Yes, as usually mean by Matt, Like it's.

507
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: Not like you think of like just a classical style

508
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: painting that is, like I.

509
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,479
Speaker 1: Guess I think of the word flat to me as

510
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: such an insult.

511
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe take that kind of judgment out of

512
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: the equation. We're just talking about esthetics. We can be

513
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: evaluative without being judgmental, right.

514
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: Can we? And that's a question about the word flat, Wheyan.

515
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: Because that's when I like connected to the Nicole Eisenman.

516
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: It's like you see what I'm saying where it's like

517
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: very like shape.

518
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: Driven, right, I agree with that.

519
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, But this is where I'm gonna maybe say maybe

520
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: his work is cringe I suggested as a compromise that

521
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: Or replaced the contrasting nightclub scene in the left half

522
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: of the mural with the figure of Abraham Lincoln simp

523
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: reunification of the American States and the appolition of slavery,

524
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: surrounded by John Brown, Nat Turner, Willimore Garrison, Wendell Phillips,

525
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: and Harry Beach Tristow, Or with a scientific figure like

526
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: Cypress McCormick, whose reaping machine it contributed to the victory

527
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: of the Union Forces by facilitating the harvesting of wheats

528
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: in the fields of Department. I'm like, it's so literal

529
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: where he's just like here are these historic figures. Like

530
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: I feel like he literally would be painting the mural today.

531
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: That's like RBG No, I know, like Baggie in Nelson Mandela,

532
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: like in Heaven, like smoking a Bond's Maryland, Marilyn Monroe,

533
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: Like it's a little that.

534
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: No. I feel like that's why I've always been with

535
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: his work, Like some of them, like the one I'm

536
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: looking at right now, where you're like you're doing a

537
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: bunch of people here, yeah, and being like it's a

538
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: scientist with Billie Holiday and Billie Holiday is with Meghan Rappino.

539
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: That is like the style is cool, and also to.

540
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: Think not that many people at that time we're doing that,

541
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: So now we're seeing that as maybe like Biggie and Maryland, but.

542
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: Also the context I love. I love like deco architecture

543
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: with huge murals in a lobby, like that's so beautiful

544
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: and it does feel like such a celebration of public

545
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: space and civic life and like work like sciety and

546
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: I do really love that. But obviously when we see

547
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 2: a mural today of Biggie and RBG, we can't help

548
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: but say, even if it isn't a public space, just

549
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 2: being like that, that's embarrassing.

550
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: I think that's what happens is that's kind of his

551
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: later work, the one that you're referencing. And I do

552
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: think a lot of the time people get more cringe

553
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: painters especially and artists because they become like less raw

554
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: and more of touch and more funded.

555
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: I think my favorite pieces of his work are of

556
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: just like random people, of like the flower seller in

557
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: the market. It's just like a woman with flowers, and

558
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 2: like there's something so intimate and.

559
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: I think a little more personal.

560
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: Rather than just like I'm.

561
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: The commission stuff, which is but then it's a celebrities.

562
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: It's like that stuff was probably paying for him.

563
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: Oh for sure, it is paying him a pretty penny.

564
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: Henry four paid him twenty five grand to do the

565
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: Detroit Murals.

566
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the real show with Henry

567
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: Ford for a minute, because this is the classic. You know,

568
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: it's like you want to be a revolutionary and then

569
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: you meet a dope guy who makes a lot of

570
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: money who likes your work problems in Sueka.

571
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: I literally it was just like so, yeah, Henry Ford

572
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: was low key, so chill and like, actually we had

573
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: an amazing conversation. I think he's so funny and smart

574
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: and obsessed with him and uh I did I hate

575
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: that he was a capitalist and I knew it was

576
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: gonna get me canceled if I like said that I

577
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: liked him.

578
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: So he was also being very like Twitter thread like

579
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: why actually, like Henry Ford is so dope and saving

580
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: America because he was like Marx did this, like someone

581
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: else did this in Henry Ford, he said made it

582
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: possible for socialists living because he created so many factories.

583
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, and this is the dream

584
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: of like the industrial revolution is that it liberated workers

585
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: from the fields and so their lives wouldn't be so

586
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: devoted to drudgery. But of course I feel like that's not.

587
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: Well, and everyone has still just being like, we need

588
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: to bring back American manufacturing. I know.

589
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: It's like Brian's constantly saying that, and.

590
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, yes, this like expensive men'swear brand I like,

591
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: like is making pants and fall River Mass but I

592
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: don't know if that's gonna save America.

593
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: Well, they're just being like, we need to have like

594
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: so many dishwashers made here, like with really cheap labor,

595
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: and it's kind of like, well, nobody wants to do that.

596
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: I wants to be like, why gets.

597
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: Outsourced to undeveloped country, Like that's literally how the economy works.

598
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: It's just like, but as we're saying, maybe if all

599
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: the Bushwicktonians were being a little more lunch pale, they

600
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: would be happier.

601
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the Marxist dream I feel is that

602
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: you're not having to work at the factory for twelve

603
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: hours a day. It's that you're doing like two hours

604
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: in the morning, then you're going fishing, and then you're.

605
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: Being making love with your wife, love with your.

606
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: Wife, and then you're a bartender and it's like you're

607
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: doing all of those like little jobs throughout the day.

608
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: And then it's just like, oh, but it's so annoying

609
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: when those Bushwick guys like do learn to weld, because

610
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: they're like so proud of it and just being like,

611
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: I weld.

612
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: Who on earth do you know who welds? I cannot

613
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: name a single welder, and my network, I'm.

614
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: Definitely like hurt of a lesbian into a greater network.

615
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: Lord knows, I don't know the name who eldse But

616
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: so Ford just close the before gives him and Frida

617
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: a new automobile, and Freda is like, I will not

618
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: sit in this fancy car, like I will not take

619
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: this lavish present, and so then he returns it to

620
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: Ford and then Ford makes her a smaller more like

621
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: modest prios and she's like, okay, I'll take it. Literally

622
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: is like your mom not getting a Tesla but getting

623
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: her electric mode electric.

624
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: Misteak, cause she's like, I won't support elon musk. Okay. Wait.

625
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: I really loved when he was like talking about the

626
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: French bourgeoisie.

627
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Oh wait, and like the.

628
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: Lay about bohemians in France, because he's basically actually describing

629
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: our current society. So he was younger, he's in Paris

630
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I observe too that in the urban

631
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: industrial workers, the peteepers was he in intellectuals, this same

632
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: worship of landed property, like just in the surface. He's like,

633
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: everyone's upsised with land in France, even the maddest, gayest,

634
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: and richest whores and the most bohemian of the artists

635
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: dreamed of retiring to the country and working their own

636
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: land with their hands.

637
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: So true, like every girl that's like hold on, puts

638
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 1: on Carhart, Georgia. What if I want to Maine And

639
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: I had my practice there and I made seramics.

640
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: And I raised my son whose name is like.

641
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: Guilford, Guilford Maze, Guilford Maze West. So he's not at

642
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: those And then he goes off on like London middle

643
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: class people wearing second hand ball gowns, which I found

644
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: so funny, and he was like, it's so sad, like

645
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: they want to be like full nobles and they go

646
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: to these secondhand shops. He's literally thrifty, and he's like, oh,

647
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna buy like two seasons ago, like top coats

648
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: and like the gowns and just be walking around the

649
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: street and a gown.

650
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: But then he's like, they're buying them because the Uniclo

651
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: of the day or whatever was like shitty er quality.

652
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: He's like, so they didn't want to buy their like

653
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: shoddy old navy. They wanted to buy like hand me

654
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: down Ralph from No.

655
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: It's literally him being like not like they're.

656
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: So but draggled inside, but they're like used pearls.

657
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: It is that thing though, sometimes when you see someone

658
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh my god, no, like I got

659
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: off the real reel. They're like it's you know, like

660
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Ralph Simmons or whatever, famous rough Simones. It's Harmani and

661
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, like yes, I get it. It's designer,

662
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: but it's all still dusty as fun.

663
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: It's it's it's pressed.

664
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: Crinkled dusty two thousand and one.

665
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: What you mean, like the brass is like on the

666
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: buckles like kind of age like oh yeah cool, and

667
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 2: you kind of act like you know, you're like, oh yeah,

668
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: like two thousand and one, like.

669
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: That collection is so cool, bring one product, right.

670
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: Just like the collection that actually invented me, Like, yeah,

671
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: you're so lucky to have this kind of like dirty

672
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: leather bag.

673
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: So he calls it when he sees it, you know

674
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: what I mean.

675
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: For sure, he's real, but it's like you do see

676
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: the tensions in his constant life of like being like

677
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: I'm a revolutionary and I am like a bohemian, but

678
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: also just like I'm a bitch and I am gonna

679
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: sit in cafes all day and like I'm talking shit

680
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: about like the privileged class, but also just like I

681
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: am the I mean, it's very like us. It's very us,

682
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: it's very everyone today. It's very Twitter, Like.

683
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: You want to be punked, you want to insult this

684
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: person who is this type of privilege but a so

685
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: you want to be like poor but you want to

686
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: have a TV show?

687
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he does, like have you know these

688
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 2: scrapes with so many different like like figures of history,

689
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: it's kind of insane. He meets Stalin and sketches him.

690
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: He like sees Hitler making his first speech and his

691
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: friends are like, wait, he's never gonna amount to anything.

692
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: The Hitler thing like also defines like libs seeing Trump

693
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: for the first time, right, they like go to this

694
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: speech and like his friends, his bohemian friends are like

695
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: this freaking fool, like don't even and he's like I

696
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: kept on asking Germans like what was the deal with Hitler?

697
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: And he was like, no one really gave me like

698
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: a clear answer. He also has been like my friends

699
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: didn't really get it. But I noticed everyone clapping for

700
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: hours at Hitler.

701
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: Because it's like all the German libs are being so

702
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: just like he's crazy. I don't understand that.

703
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm out of republic.

704
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't even like him?

705
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, looks like all those fools like him.

706
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: And then he's like and sadly, my friends who were

707
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: laughing did go out ahead and did die.

708
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: In the Holocaust, So yeah, were they Jewish? I don't know, yeah,

709
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: or they could have just been murdered by the SS.

710
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: And murder right. Okay, this is part of him being

711
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: kind of a pixie dream girl with Stalin, that's part

712
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: I want to read. I was sitting directly opposite Stalin,

713
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: taking advantage of my position. I began making sketches of

714
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: his face. He evidently noticed what I was doing. When

715
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: I put down my pencil, he walked over and asked

716
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: to see my pencil sketches. He examined all of them,

717
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: selected one and wrote on the back of it in

718
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: blue pencil, Greetings to the Mexican Revolutionaries and signed Stalin.

719
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: As he was inscribing, the chairman declared the meeting over.

720
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: After Stalin left, we were given the signal to leave

721
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: the room. Isn't it so like girl in the cafe

722
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: who just starts randomly like sketching someone and then just

723
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: like comes over to Stalin is like, here.

724
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: He drewa Sorry, I don't know when I get nervous,

725
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: I sketch.

726
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: I just start sketching. He's like, what's your name?

727
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 2: So guarded, but he's wearing big headphones. Okay. I do

728
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: feel like he's obviously not short of confidence at all.

729
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: He's constantly amazed by his own work. I just feel

730
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: like every chapter is always like and then my paintings

731
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: actually were so good, and I entered this new creative

732
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: era was like, oh wait a minute, now, these are

733
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: really interesting and everyone's.

734
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: Railroad workers but like mixed with Mayan mythology, and like

735
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: everyone was shook. Like when I tell you, Mussolini was

736
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: begging me to come to Italy, honey like he was,

737
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: and I said, you're gonna be in the ground soon.

738
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: I'm not founding.

739
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: Italy and it was like and yeah, I called it bitch,

740
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: and like all the like first like exhibitions he's doing

741
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 2: like in like Spain in France, and he's just being like, so, yeah,

742
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: my painting stood out amongst the other six thousand paintings.

743
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: It was I guess, kind of the best.

744
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: You might say. And when he's getting started, everyone is

745
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: like absoused with and then he's really bragging about how

746
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: like Picasso actually takes a liking to him, and he's like, yeah,

747
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: so actually Picasso was like starting to look at like

748
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: my early Cubism and was like, so, by the way,

749
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: this is amazing, Like we need to get solo drinks

750
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: and he was very like yeah, like one of my

751
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: favorite things to do is when me and Picasso get

752
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: together and we talked shit about other painters and then

753
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: all the Cubists got really mad at him for leaving Cubism.

754
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: It's like very when it's just like, oh, you know,

755
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: a comedian then becomes a more of an actor, you know,

756
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: a musician becomes a podcast raft our industry.

757
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: No, and when when a.

758
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: Podcaster leaves to become a musician.

759
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 2: Hangs up their microphone for the last time, like it's

760
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: such a betrayal.

761
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: And Picassa was the one who stood by him and

762
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: was like, it's actually okay, like that.

763
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: He's only started doing cubism because everyone else was doing it.

764
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: He was just kind of.

765
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: Like, this was my question about cubism and kind of

766
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: just like Impressionism and Cubism and all kind of the

767
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: big ones. Is like, weren't all those men so mad

768
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: at each other for being like.

769
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: Are you copying?

770
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: Are you copying me? Like if Picassa was doing his

771
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: big funkial shapes and half faces and then everyone else was.

772
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of insane. I mean, like the Impressionists,

773
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: I guess they all tried to do like one thing

774
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: differently and they're like, I'm doing it weird in this way.

775
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: But I feel like today artists like you could definitely

776
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: like group a lot of artists work together as a

777
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: very similar kind of work. But I don't think they

778
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: would ever call themselves that.

779
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: They would never be like like where the flats, Yeah,

780
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: the least favorite words, Like, they would never admit that

781
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: they're all copying each I feel like the second or

782
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: third person to do it gets copied, but then then

783
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: becomes a.

784
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: But like net art was a genre, right and then

785
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: like post internet art, like that was a genre. I

786
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: feel like now it's very just like everyone is doing

787
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: painting because painting's always back because.

788
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: People obsessed with painting.

789
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: I mean, people want something that can go on the wad.

790
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: They can go in the house. You can't. You can

791
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: put net art a little bit in the house, but

792
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: that's if you're really installing a vintage computers, and I

793
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: would if I had a massive loft, I'd be installing

794
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: net art.

795
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: As I famously said, every room has four walls, but

796
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: it only has one floor. That's why paintings are always

797
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: going to sell more than sculpture or installation work. There's

798
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: just more room in the house.

799
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: You've said this before.

800
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: They say this all the time.

801
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I missed it. I'm hearing for the

802
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: first time myself. Okay, sounds really exciting.

803
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: Thank you at my last salon, I think I think

804
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: you missed my last salon.

805
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: I was sculpting.

806
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry you are.

807
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: Just to circle back to his relationship with Freda, it's

808
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: a lot of about how they love each other's mind

809
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: and they love each other so much, and he's always

810
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: like fucking other chicks, and she would get so mad,

811
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: but he never touches really on her bisexuality, which I

812
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: thought was kind of classic. I mean, he says at

813
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: one point she and this is in their second marriage,

814
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: when she says, we cannot have sex because I'll get

815
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: too mad at you.

816
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: This is so they've like already broken up, and she's like, fine,

817
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: I'll marry you again. And she's also like always getting

818
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: so sick and like getting her knee amputated and constantly,

819
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: and like the doctor is also there are just like

820
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 2: putting leeches on her or whatever, like when she's like, fine,

821
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: I'll remarry you. For her part, she asked for certain

822
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 2: conditions that she would provide for herself financially from the

823
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: proceeds of her own work. That I would pay one

824
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: half of our household expenses, nothing more, and that we

825
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: would have no sexual intercourse. And explaining this last depidation,

826
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: she said that with the images of all my other

827
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: women flashing through her mind and possibly make love with me,

828
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: for psychological barrier would spring up as soon as I

829
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: made advances. I love how in telling this story, he's

830
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: still like bragging about other conquests.

831
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: Of my conquest. But then he's like, she was on

832
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: her deathbed, she had seven knies amputated. She loved when

833
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: I told her of my conquest and how I made

834
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: love with Paulina and Emmalina Angelina, and he's like it

835
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: turned her on. They were so third, Like she's Christina Barcelona. Yeah,

836
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: like she's slept with like Paultte, like she would sleep

837
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: with some of his lovers.

838
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: Fiery. Okay, I need to see the movie. Does it

839
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 2: happen in the movie.

840
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: I haven't finished, but the beginning starts with like her

841
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: watching him fuck a woman. He's painting, and she's being

842
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: like just a little schoolgirl right.

843
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: Well, because she starts out and she's like in overalls

844
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: and like she's been.

845
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: So hey, mister yeah, like paintings.

846
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 2: And like she's eighteen allegedly, and he's just like even

847
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: though I more than age, nobody cared.

848
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: I went. When I went to the Freeda House with

849
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: my mom last summer, I was like staring at the

850
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: statue of d'e Rivera. I was like, oh, so he's

851
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: a huge almost like so much.

852
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: Old he's as big as a house.

853
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, oh damn. So he's kind

854
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: of like he was younger, but then he.

855
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: Was attracted to his mind.

856
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: At the end of the book are statements from all

857
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: of his.

858
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 2: Wives wait her drag Okay, this book.

859
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: Is so much sorry, all books need to do that.

860
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: Right after the book ends, there's literally a statement from

861
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: each one of his wives. They're all like savage, the

862
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: freedom one.

863
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: Is it so sv It's just like his huge, huge belly.

864
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: He looks like a frog Diego's chest of it. We

865
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: have to say that had he landed on an island

866
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: governed by Sappho where male invaders were apt to be executed,

867
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: Diego would never have been in danger. This sense activity

868
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: of his marvelous breasts would have ensured his welcome, although

869
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: his masculine virility, specific and strange would have made him

870
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 2: eekally desired and the lands of these queens avidly hungering

871
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: from ascaline love. So just being like his butcher as

872
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: with his huge titties would have really made a vibe

873
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: that I.

874
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: Was getting from them was like he was much more

875
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: like huge butch stone butch.

876
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like big old knocker.

877
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was like, yeah, take me, and I'm.

878
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 2: His autoimmune like queer she they but is still sometimes

879
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: like strapping up.

880
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: I feel like she was strapping up at least finger.

881
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: His enormous belly, smooth, tightly drawn, and spear shaped, is

882
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: supported by two strong language are as, beautifully solid as

883
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: classical columns, the end in feet which point outward, and

884
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 2: a twos angle as if MOLDI first danced. Why don't

885
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: have to cover the entire earth?

886
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: Because then there's a point earlier in the book that

887
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: he says he loses a lot of weight, and she

888
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: hasn't seen him for two months, and she sees him

889
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: and she starts crying because he's lost a lot of weight.

890
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: But he was like, I was disgusting because my skin

891
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: looks like he was like, my loose skin looked like

892
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: an elephant.

893
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I guess we didn't talk about the penis cancer.

894
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: And he keeps on saying I have cancer the penis,

895
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: and like they cure it. And he's like all scientists

896
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: across the world wanted to come and look at my dad.

897
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 2: And they're kept being like when we have to amputate,

898
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: and he was like, I would rather do.

899
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, the thing that has given me the

900
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: most pleasure in life besides my frescoes, don't you dare

901
00:45:49,680 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: se k chaos vitas vita chaos, comedic chaos. Yes, maybe

902
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: where is br like to put.

903
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 2: Anyway?

904
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: What is venimentosat honey Pussy. At some point he does like.

905
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: Blood vet blood, but he doesn't enjoy it.

906
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: At some point he's like on this ship and he's

907
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: like eating the whole time, and he's like it was

908
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: lobsters and it was brandy. Then it was like steaks,

909
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: and it was like fruit.

910
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: Really James Gandelvi.

911
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: But then he goes in a diet at some point.

912
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: Right because he like does have cancer something, and they're

913
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 2: like he has to eat like two eggs, two pieces

914
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: of black bread, fresh fruit.

915
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: One piece of meat.

916
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: And then he does lose weight. He basically goes on akins.

917
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then like unsweetened coffee.

918
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 2: A thermos of unsweetened coffee.

919
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: And he's like at his pail at Rockefeller.

920
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: I Usually I don't think he's doing it. Usually I

921
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: think he enjoys alcohol and he is doing brandy and

922
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: condic with picasso and knocking and wine.

923
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: And it's all de cafe stuff. I think he's also

924
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: very classic like studio guy, where like there is always

925
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: kind of like some wine in the studio.

926
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: Okay, here's my question about Mexican history. If you're an

927
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: artist in Mexico sitting in the nineteen twenties, was the

928
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: food also like being tacos back then.

929
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: Or is it more like plateau? Yeah, I mean tortillas

930
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: were invented.

931
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: Like I mean, can't be like an invention from the eighties.

932
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: Tacos were happening, Yeah, there will be. I think it

933
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: was definitely tacos.

934
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: Were they being chata penis? Were they being crickets?

935
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I feel like it was more fresh tortillas cactus see,

936
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: and then maybe like egg taco, a lot of breakfast tacos.

937
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: He loved breakfast talcos. And then probably also like a

938
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 1: lot of chickens, a lot of chicken.

939
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: He's like a manatee. There's just like we have even

940
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: to thirty hundred punds a day.

941
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: Like he's doing casual street tacos, but then he's doing

942
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: like dinner that's like steak and like, yeah, feast.

943
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: I think it's very feast dinner, just the way that

944
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: he described having to eat fruit when he went on

945
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: that diet made it sound like he wasn't doing a

946
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 2: lot of fruit regularly. No, even though she was being

947
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: Freedom is being more like oat.

948
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: Ball constant with the oats in the back pain and like.

949
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I was at Cava today. It was

950
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: madhouse in there, and this guy was ordering. He clearly

951
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: had like someone else had like written down what they wanted,

952
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: and he like saying to the guys. He kept saying,

953
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: I want a grain ball, and they were just like, okay,

954
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 2: like what grain. He was like, no, I want a

955
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: grain ball.

956
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: Oh. So he was like the assistant, but he was.

957
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: Like middle aged. He was like older, but maybe it

958
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 2: was a little bit that movie The Intern. I feel

959
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: like he was older. And he just kept saying, I

960
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: want a grain bowl. And then the guys were just

961
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: pointing to like the grains akay, like the rice and

962
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 2: like the lentils, and he wasn't making the connection that

963
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: those were in fact grains and he had.

964
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: To choose his yeah.

965
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Problem with our society sort of paralyzed choice.

966
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 1: I think Diego would have been disgusted by the culture

967
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: culture because he's so cafe long meals, not grabbing go.

968
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the.

969
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: Workers' rights of Uber Eats, and I mean he's worker's race,

970
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: but he's also cafe, which is why he is your

971
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: sort of classic like Champagne socialist bohemian lay about right,

972
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: like he's not delivery, is the total dirtbag leftost. But

973
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: does he wear I think he's very like big pentaloons.

974
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 2: I feel like he does like to dress slightly like revolutionarily.

975
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, like some sort of white button down, but it's

976
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: like a little bit like dirty in this way.

977
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: I was like more like military colors, like olive linen

978
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 2: shirts that are like a little bit Asian but also

979
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: a little bit like communists, but also kind of army army.

980
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: Wait, this is so crazy because I was gonna wear

981
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: that kind of fit castros. I was gonna wear this

982
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: shirt that I got in an Army Navy store today,

983
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: like in honor of Diego Rivera, And I was like,

984
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: is this Diego Rivera core because it felt kind of

985
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: revolutionary and like it was like a tan button down with.

986
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: Like multiple pockets. Okay, yeah, for sure, So I think

987
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: that's what he's think there's a little bit more of

988
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: like a linen aspect to it.

989
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: Have a big linen jacket again covered in paint. M

990
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: I think there's just white painter's shirt with like ruffles

991
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: and then like pleated pants.

992
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: Of he does have a tailor in Mexico City in

993
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 2: Koyakan that he's going to because he's a big boy,

994
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: and like I.

995
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: Think he's getting his pants like enlargeen.

996
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: In large had paint. And then how does he live?

997
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 2: Obviously they live in their gorgeous modernist home. I mean

998
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: you've seen that.

999
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: I've seen their home and it's fab I mean seeing

1000
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: their separate bedrooms and it's.

1001
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: And that's how a marriage stays happy.

1002
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of colors.

1003
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 2: Do they have like fully separate wings of the house.

1004
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: It's like her bedroom, but then like another bedroom. It's

1005
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: very like and then this is the bedroom. She was like, sicken.

1006
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like they were a little Amanda

1007
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: Knock style, like some nights sleeping with each other. Some

1008
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: nights he would probably be like painting and then just

1009
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 1: like retire to her, like.

1010
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 2: When you sign in the Knock sile you're referring to

1011
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: the late article she wrote about how you should switch

1012
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: sides of the bed with your lover. Yeah, so everyone

1013
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: gets my reference on board. All right, who are you

1014
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: in the book.

1015
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: I think I meant either of us.

1016
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: I really am.

1017
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: I do like those confidence. Honestly, there was a point.

1018
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: Where he was late to like a dinner that like

1019
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: one of his revolutionary friends was poisoned at, and he

1020
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: was just like, oh thank god it was late, or

1021
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: there was it would have been poisoned. So he did

1022
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 2: sort of relate to being late totally. But other than that,

1023
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: I didn't really see myself in him.

1024
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if you're so like eight year

1025
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 1: old drawing battle hymns.

1026
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: No, and he's very prolific. You know, he does a

1027
00:51:59,040 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: lot of work.

1028
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: No, Die rivera accomplished. I think we can all create that.

1029
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: He fucking turned it out. I kind of think you're

1030
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: Freida and my leg amputated.

1031
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: Yes, honestly, you definitely think you need to get your

1032
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: leg amputation. And I feel like you're like stop seeing

1033
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: with people. But I want to hear about it because

1034
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: you want to get mad about it. Yes, but kind

1035
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: of like in a fake, like traumatic way.

1036
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: Yes. And I have great interior.

1037
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: You have like this like crazy stunning you push you

1038
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: at Frida's house.

1039
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: I want a courtyard. You are the London peasants where

1040
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: you hand me down world coats.

1041
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: Literally, I'm like, no, I paid sixty quid, didn't you

1042
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: know that? Like the Prince wore this once.

1043
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: Okayo is real fun. I get it. Four out of

1044
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: five murals of workers in beautiful public settings.

1045
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: I give it, honestly, four point five wives out of

1046
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 1: five wives. I've never said audibly, oh my god, so much,

1047
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: just kind of to myself while reading this book with

1048
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: kind of the amount of just like did you just

1049
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: say that? Did did you just say that? And you know,

1050
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: clocking in at two hundred pages, there's very readable.

1051
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 2: It is chronological, but the chapters are like small little vignette,

1052
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 2: which I also really.

1053
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: Like, like you can kind of not a slog at all,

1054
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: pick up and not learned how to deal with me,

1055
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: or just like Freida, and.

1056
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: I think he has a great, very succinct way of

1057
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 2: describing people, like even just being like, you know, my

1058
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: mother was diminutive, almost childlife with large innocent eyes, but

1059
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: adult in her extreme nervousness. Like it's just a great

1060
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,479
Speaker 2: way of describing someone's character and physicality in a super

1061
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 2: efficient way.

1062
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: It's insanely efficient. I actually think people should study this

1063
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: so they're going to write about more.

1064
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1065
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: He packs in two wars, five wives, and one hundred

1066
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: and eighty pages and it's funny.

1067
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: Period period anyway. Yeah, check out his art work.

1068
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: I think it's actually now on display at the Mama

1069
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: Available museums around the globe. Anyone you walk into, it's

1070
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: probably there.

1071
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: Start the movie, Finish the movie.

1072
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: Finish the movie, start the book. Pick up a paintbrush,

1073
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: sketched doll in you know to do Best Celebrity book Club.

1074
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: The podcast Beautiful Genre of Work was produced by Darby Masters,

1075
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: my first and third wife, the supervising producer. About Zufar,

1076
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: of course, raised me in the mountains, healed me from tuberculosis.

1077
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him in years, but he visits me

1078
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 1: in the night. I know he does.

1079
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: He comes in the film with a ghost. The ghost

1080
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 2: comes in the pharm of a beautiful flower, and.

1081
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: A flower grows around my beautiful house outside of Mexico City.

1082
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: It was a colored glass in the windows Return. It

1083
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: was executive produced by the scoundrel rap dictator General Ali

1084
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 2: Simo Christina Everetto Le Musica was made by Stephen Philip.

1085
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: Source, who was actually Mussolini's tired composer, a controversial composer.

1086
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: He made music for war.

1087
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 2: He that Teddy Blanks Citty graphic design an artist of

1088
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: great acclaim. We met at the Outstreet and School in

1089
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 2: Paris when I was twenty five. I was much much

1090
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: better than him, but I knew he would have a

1091
00:55:58,640 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: career doing commercial work.

1092
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: How grand for him. This podcast was originally co created,

1093
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: of course, in Russia, with Prola Projects and Stalin and

1094
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: a woman I can't even say her name legally on this.

1095
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's also dead and amputated. Go to Patreon dot

1096
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 2: com if you would like to support the.

1097
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Arts, support the arts for once, instead of buying some

1098
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: new Flashy.

1099
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: Finds another way to support the arts. You go to

1100
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: itunesmusic dot com and you review this podcast and you

1101
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: give it five stars. Classes