WEBVTT - Ep. 265: The Rambo Rabbit 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten in my case underwear listening Hunt podcast, you 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.560 can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.160 the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.440 Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:37.000 where you stand with on X alright, chatter. We're gonna 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:38.720 start right out with the with A with A with 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:45.120 A segment, aren't you gonna say? I trust that Phil 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.600 is going to put in the the jingle, the jingle 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:57.080 the Continuing Adventures of Chester the Investor comes. That's it, 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:04.160 Come on, and there's a there's a there's not an 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:11.200 inside joke. There's a very obscure joke built into the 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:19.000 intro for Chester the Investor. Yeah. I think that if you, 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.160 if you, if you know what we're talking about, you 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.319 should write in and explain what the joke is once 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:32.160 you listen to it. Not you Chester? Yeah? All right? 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.319 So yeah, where are we at? There is there a wall? 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.760 Do you do you own a walleyeboat? Now? I do 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:42.640 not own a Walleye boat. Um, Slowly but surely it 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:49.320 is looking good. Eventually, eventually will be fishing. Steve and 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.639 cracking a few cold ones. So since we last spoke, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.600 how is your how is your bitcoin investment? So Bitcoin 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.800 right now is volatile, as my brother would say, it's 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.200 you know, up and down. A lot of people are 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.120 selling and buying and selling and buying, and it was down. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.720 They have weak constitutions, Yeah, they're they're not strong. You 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:15.160 gotta stay strong in the bitcoin game. Um. But uh, 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:21.280 it was down a while. Um kind of February, like 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.959 late February bitcoin was down a little, but um, as 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.919 of yesterday kind of rallied again and uh, and it's 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.040 starting to go up. So earlier I was asking Chester 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:39.440 about his thinking on this. Uh, if he as he 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.000 does this thing to get the walleye boat, as he earns, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:48.240 the manipulates his bitcoin, not manipulates invests in bitcoin in 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.400 order to get a walleye boat. I was asking him, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:55.880 does the initial investment get thrown in toward the boat. Yes, 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.320 so so that money is committed to the walleye boat. Yes, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.000 But again, like I said, when I get there, I 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:08.600 still will probably consult with you, you being included in that, um, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.880 just to make sure I'm at the right time. Yeah. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.360 I feel that if it's shot up and you got 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.040 to a basic walleye boat. You might drag your feet 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.679 and think you're going to get a sweeter walleye boat. Yeah. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.160 I mean over the long term of bitcoin, that would 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.639 happen like you would wind up with like a walleye yacht. Yeah. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:31.320 I mean you look at the percentages, it's like return 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.400 that anyone that's like, you know, if you've invested seven 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.520 years ago or something like that in bitcoin, it's pretty 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.720 darn Yeah. But do you want to wait seven years 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.640 for that wallet boat? Yeah, dude, wal I might not 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.160 even get around anymore. We got a fish. Now. They 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.040 are saying that it may triple. Well, I read that 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.520 to you this morning off CNN. Yeah, they're saying somebody's 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.000 saying it. Now listen, let me tell you something here 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:03.960 for uh. Sean Weaver wrote in a friend of ours 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.720 he was listening to He was listening to a previous 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.720 edition of Chester The Investor, and he wrote in to 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:14.320 say this. An Econ professor of mine in college talked 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.040 about the role of sentiment in markets and how it's 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.680 an important part of a market trying to find equilibrium. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.520 There's an investing there's an investing strategy based around it 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:31.160 around being a contrarian. The basic logic is the time 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.719 to buy is when everyone thinks it's a horrible investment, 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.320 and the time to sell is when everyone thinks it's great. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.160 Now here's when he has like a kind of weird 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.360 dig on this show, like he takes a pop shot 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:48.279 at like insults this show. Huh yeah, he says. He says, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.560 I got a good chuckle today because I can't help 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.640 but think the Meat Eater podcast talking about bitcoin is 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.359 a good signal to sell for contrarian investors, which is 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.680 like us dig meaning like, if we know about it, it 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.200 it must to be that the cats out of the bag. No, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.280 that's well, yes, that's what he means, but I would 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.520 say that's not the case at all. I'm the only 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.360 one sitting here who's invested in bitcoin. But I got 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.720 jealous this morning and texted my wife to see if 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.760 I could buy some bitcoin, and she said that ship 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:21.160 is sailed. No, I don't think it has. I do 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.279 not think it has, because, like I said, none of 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.120 you guys in this room, as I'm aware of, are 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.800 invested in bitcoin. So many people are skeptical, which is 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.120 understandable because it's a lot of this stuff is right 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.760 over my head and I don't even understand it. But 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.440 luckily I have somebody to consult with that, you know, 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.520 keeps me calm and keeps me in the game. Brother 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.560 and uh, we just had a long conversation with him 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.240 on the on the ride here about it, and uh, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.040 guy knows the stuff you can. You can ask him 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.039 about anything, and you're you're saving up for a Lund. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.200 Doesn't have to be a Lund. But I like them both. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.880 They are nice boats. I like them. That eighteen footer 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.160 that you run in Alaska. Get a little simple outboard 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:14.400 tiller fish finder right next to mee just over seven 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:20.800 thousand dollars for that whole with trailer, I think, so yeah, wow, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.560 I'm I was, I'm getting there. I was looking at 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.760 him my line until until I found my boat. What's 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.800 your child like? So we're gonna keep the segment going 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:31.839 until you get the damn boat with the segment could 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.520 last year's this show. Could let this segment and that 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.839 fills jingle and everything. We might get years of material 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.440 out of this investment. You know, if it triples this year, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.480 maybe uh maybe I can still keep some stuff in 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.480 bitcoin and still get the boat. And then we'll change 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.240 the segment and it will be a segment about your 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:53.520 Walleye adventures. He'll come try that, can you? Can you 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:58.720 put on the continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester into the 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:03.680 into the We'll see homes. Yeah, continuing the continuing the 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:14.760 continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester. The investor Mike and I 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.480 have the first first idea for it. I'm coming down 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:21.640 to New Mexico and we're gonna chase some New Mexico wall. Yeah, Mike, 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.360 you were saying, this is the southernmost wall. I here 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:29.240 in New Mexico, southernmost and in uh North America, as 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.120 far as I know. What's your title again? What's my title? 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.960 Can you tell us? You gotta keep secret. Let's just 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.640 say I work in fisheries. He's a fisheries big wig, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:45.360 fisheries big wig that makes some more and bigger. Yeah, 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:49.800 Michael's explaining that. Let's say one was in fisheries. You 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.600 will find that the common feedback from the public is 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.480 that they would what they would like more bigger fish. 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.920 It's very it's really very simple. Here's anything to touch 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.080 on quick before we get into everything else. We're supposed 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:07.760 to be doing uh, first light, it's new Foundry bridges. 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.160 The Foundry pants are out there, these sons of bitch 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.760 and pants that it's been. But you're probably looking on jealously, 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:21.040 very jealously. This I'm not joking. I'm trying to think 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.160 out how to say that that people recognize. I'm telling 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:28.560 the truth. It is the Foundry pants with the knee 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.400 pads built into them, are I'm not shooting you, like, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:38.760 are the best hunting pants that I have ever ever 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:46.280 had on my body. Ever, they haven't a kneepad in them. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.800 It's like a very lightweight, well integrated knepad. You can 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.000 take it out to wash them, but it's in there 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.839 so well. It's like it doesn't bother you hiking around 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.400 you do not know what's there. But when you get 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.319 out of your tent on your knees and the gravel 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.400 or you're on your knees glass and or you're crawling 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.320 up on something is such a game changer. And they 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:12.560 got very like like a very durable blend of fabrics. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.240 But I've got I don't know, man, I've been wearing 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.160 I'm wearing like a pair of all fall I've got 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.880 well over sixty days into them. Um God, they're comfortable 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:28.400 and they have side zippers. So if you get first 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.880 lights zip on long John's and you've got the side 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.160 zip around these pants, you can undo the side zip 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.760 around the pants and through that little hole unzip your 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.240 long John's and actually pull your long John's off like 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.400 a magic trick. Have you seen me do this? You 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.680 never have to drop your drawers. You don't even drop Yeah, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.360 you don't even drop your drawers. You unzip a zipper, 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.760 reach in there and unzip another zipper like it's like 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.280 a magic trick. Also, and you're standing here hold in 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:58.400 your Long John's. Damn good pants like the just in 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:06.559 terms of durability, comfort, pocket configuration, knee pads, side zipper fit, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.160 even the right amount of belt loops in the right places, 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:17.280 like the best pants I have ever worn. Now, quick 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:22.760 word about vass leaning dampons. A woman from Ashley, No, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:28.480 she's from. Her name is Ashley, She's from Austin. She 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.520 wrote in to say it to have this to share 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.360 about the Meteor Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, which 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.920 is available now at Amazon dot com. In there, we 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.959 make a very spirited argument for using as your firestarter. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.200 You go find a friend who dips and get one 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.600 of their used dip tins right chew ten and then 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.640 you take cotton balls and rub vassilene into those cotton 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.920 balls and pack that chew tin old the cotton full 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.840 of vast Lane infused cotton balls. Because they make wonderful 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:09.079 fire starters. It doubles as vast lane if you need, 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.280 like you get chapped lips, a braided skin, um and 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.800 t s A guys don't steal it from you because 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.600 when you're toting around any kind of accelerant, like all 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.200 those sort of fire starters from the sporting goods store, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.000 the t s A guys will take them from you 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.120 and potentially find you. We gotta fine seven not not 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:30.960 for a fire starter, but we had a seven thousand 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:35.720 dollar fine from is a beutane fuel canstor my body 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.240 that showed up in the security line with a loaded 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.600 pistol that he didn't know he had in his bag 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:50.000 had less of a fine than a jet bowl canister, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.360 which our lawyer got it knocked down to half. That 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.320 how do you know you have a pistol in your 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.280 bag that's loaded? I told, This is the feedback I 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.240 provided for him. I said, I think the fine for 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.240 having of trying to get on a plane with a 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.520 loaded pistol you didn't know you had should be that 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.040 you get shot with the pistol. Sounds right somewhere you 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.360 can pick where, you pick where, but that's the fine 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.320 as you get shot by it. And wasn't your fuel 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:22.600 and check luggage like not? Yeah? So, uh, we're flying 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.240 home from a trip and one of the one of 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.920 you know, we just like checked all the gear and 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.800 also one of our guys they paid them to come 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.960 down security. So it goes down to security to the 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.120 t s A dudes and they're like, hey, we found 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.840 this fuel can in your bag and he's like, oh sorry, man, 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:43.840 you know, just go ahead and throw it out, you know, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:47.800 definitely don't need it. Cool. And then some period of 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.200 time goes by and all of a sudden, here's this 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:54.120 big stack of paperwork with that fine. Right. Yeah, and 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.440 my buddy that tried to bring his pistols loaded pistol 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.280 line to the airplane, I think it was all said, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.640 and don't old a thousand dollars, right, and that was 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.440 gonna go like in the cabin with him. He didn't 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:10.040 lose his pistol and we lost our field can injustice Anyways, 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.880 Astley from Austin writes in what got me on that? 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.680 Oh yeah why you carry? Why? Why like bassline if 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:21.520 you're traveling person. She was saying that, uh, she had 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.600 this is interesting piece of feedback. She didn't have cotton balls, 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.000 but she had tampons and vassilen and to start a fire. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.840 Took that tampon material kind of like crumpled it up, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.640 put vassilan on there, and she says it's a phenomenal 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:44.199 fire starter. Think of that. Whatever works. Uh. We talked 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.120 recently on the episode where a guy was saying that 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.360 see a long time ago to talking about how people 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.719 how cabella is a bass Pro shop, which is the 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.120 same thing now and it is bought Sports's warehouse right, No, yeah, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.959 I didn't hear that. I heard at Yeah they did, 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.120 that's it. Yeah, So like bass Pro bought Cabela's and 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.440 that entity bought sports in his warehouse. So if you're 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.199 like walking into a sporting good stores probably all by 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.839 the same mugs. Um. We got to talk about when 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.960 people sell like where's all that taxi durn you come from? 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:20.600 Like you know you're going to a bass Pro or whatever. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.080 They sometimes had these massive dioramas of you know, he's 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.120 sort of like stuffed menagerie's. And we're talking about the 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.920 market of of when you get like an exceptional specimen 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.360 of an animal, the market of selling it to to 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.160 wind up in these things. How people can make that 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.600 might be if if bitcoin doesn't work out for you, Chester, 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.160 you might get that Walleye boat by shooting giant stuff 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.560 and selling the sporting good stores. Well, I'll have to 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.560 get out hunting and actually kill something I set in 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.880 my game off. So this guy was saying that one 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.920 of these the Cabella's offered his old man seventy grand 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:06.520 for an l buino porcupine, And uh, I think that 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.520 someone expressed even the idea that they weren't even buying it, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.280 even the existence of the porcupine, and he sent in 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.280 and it's damn sure it looks like an albino porcupine 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.360 to me. Or do you think Kevin Murphy cutest little 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.440 porcupine I've ever seen? I've seen a few porcupins, my 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.120 dogs have tangled and laws for the porkeypins. You ever 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.720 seen an al buyo porcupine? Never heard of one cutest 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.360 damn animal on the planet. Never heard that little guy. 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:36.040 He's pretty cute, super cute. Here he is chewing on 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.880 an antler. Now Seth is gonna report on this, which 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.960 is this is an insane This is one of the 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.720 most upsetting things I've looked at and forever. Yeah, it's 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.040 it's it's like, I hate looking at it. I think 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:50.760 that someone you know, what, do you want to put 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.520 it on your Instagram so the people can go see 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:59.160 for themselves? Yeah? Okay, so so you gotta you gotta, 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.120 you gotta realize you're making the commitment here and you're 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.920 gonna let people down. What do you mean if you 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.560 don't do it? Yeah, I'll put it on my highlights 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.360 where I put all the stuff. Put it on the 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.520 main thing or not at all? Can't you do both? 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.440 You should put it on yours because more people will 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:21.920 see it, Okay, And I I have a certain certain 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:26.240 aesthetic I keep with my Instagram. They explain that to me. Well, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.520 if you look at my Instagram, explain it's all high 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.880 quality photos that are it's all fine art. Yeah, you 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.320 don't want to put some hairy asked eyeball, dear, No, 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.040 not unless I took a picture of it and fine 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.960 art style. I'll put it on mind. Go ahead and 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.720 tell everybody what's going on. It's it's one of the 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.120 more upsetting things. I will have it. I guarant d 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.840 amn t. I'm sending a note about this right now. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.160 Go ahead, everybody about It's a deer that has I 0:16:54.200 --> 0:17:04.560 believe it's pronounced corneal Dermoid's like yeah, So there was 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.360 an individual that, uh or there was someone that saw 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.880 this deer and reported that it was like the deer 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.400 was circling, it was make going in circles. It had 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.360 visible bleeding, lacked awareness of people around it, and had 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.520 something on its eyes. It turned out to be this 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:29.360 corneal dermoid. And what it is, it's like a abnormal 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:34.600 growth of skin and hair follicles on areas where skin 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.160 and hair follicles don't grow and just happened to grow 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.360 over its cornea to gradually. Have you seen this mike 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:47.120 to gradually where if you look at this picture, it's 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.760 a buck and where you'd expect his eyeball to be 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:54.440 like not as eye, but what's the part in the 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.679 middle of your eyeball, your corna, that's the part that 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.239 you say, like you have blue eyes. Whatever that's we're 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:07.520 talking about, I think so, yeah, is hair, Yeah, gradually, gradually, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:12.119 gradually it grew into where he eventually became blind and 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:18.400 he has a hairy Harry eyeball, a harry eyeball developmental 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:23.320 glitch where the corny a tissue fails to form and 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.480 it defaults the skin. If you get it, because the 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:34.920 mug get it. Yeah, limbal dermoiden hair shafts over your eyeball. 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:41.959 You people out there, Yeah, yeah, Oh, I wonder how 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.040 like I wonder how often that happens or has happened before. Well, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.879 Karin included. Karin included, if you go down, there's a 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.640 dude's eyeball who's got hair growing out. That book looks 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:58.840 pretty young? Was that book? Born with included a fair 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:04.760 a bunch of ex dreamly disturbing photos. Doesn't say if 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.760 it was born with it or not. I'm interested in that, right, 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.480 like if it if it's onset, wants the animals got 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.879 some age to it, or if it's born with I 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:19.480 would think it it's onset because there's no way a deer. 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.280 I mean this. You can tell in this photo that 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:26.760 the buck has antler growth, so it's probably least a 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.600 year old. I don't think a deer that's a year 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.520 could survive in the wild a whole year being blind. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.159 But that's just one eye, I said both eyes. I 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:38.840 think the other thing it said it was both eyes. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.320 Didn't say it was both eyes yet. Yeah, even a 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.560 blind horrible fund every now and then, that's true. You guts. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.520 Check out this deal with the person in the feeding 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.359 the grizzly Barris, you know the story in Grand Seaton. Nope, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:58.480 So a bunch of people sent this into us. Some 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.480 more like there's a neighborhoods, there's a there's a subdivision 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.480 and it's called the Solitude Subdivision a Grand Tetown, Wyoming, Okay, 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:11.639 And some neighbors report this lady for feeding grizzly bears. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.720 And you know that famous like there's that famous grizzly. 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.119 A little bit, it's problematic that we have a famous grizzly, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.600 but like there's like like this three grizzly grizzly number 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.520 three nine nine. She's like spend her whole life out 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.600 now she hangs out in town and everybody's all worked up. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.400 This bear has all this offspring, and these offspring are 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.119 all eaten in this lady's backyard. So they got to 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.320 talk to her, be like, you're feeding bears. She's very 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.119 excited about the fact that the bears are here. She 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:44.399 explains that she has an aura that allows her to 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.760 communicate with bears and that prevents her from being hurt 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:52.440 by bears. And she's feeding many grizzlies in her yard 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:59.639 grain soaked and molasses. But you are allowed to feed moose, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.639 so all she has to they're not prosecuting her because 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:12.560 she says, I'm feeding moose. It's not my fault that 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.760 all these grizzlies are in my yard. And while they're 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.760 standing there, the agents that come visitor, they're staying there. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:25.240 There's five grizzlies eating off her back porch. But they're saying, 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:31.280 that's not we gonna do because she's feeding moose. Difficult 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.200 time prosecutor sounds like, sounds like they need to go ahead. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.960 Yet it sounds like that one guy who got killed 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.800 in Alaska kind of um he wasn't feeding him, was 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.720 a badass though Timothy treadwell, yeah, he don't camp anyone 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.520 in this room. Why do they need to change the rule. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.840 They you shouldn't be allowed to feed anything yell, yeah, 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:55.960 but that's the whole thing. In a a while, like what 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.280 they're feeding their elk, feeding elk and deer feeding stations. 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.639 I mean, they've created this weird problem. And I know 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:06.280 cal has talked about this quite a bit. Is they 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.560 At a time, you know, hunters wanted more game right 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.280 in Wylming, like people wanted a big, healthy elk hirt 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.000 and me too, write so people wanted a lot of elk, 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.840 and having a lot of elk and wyloming as elsewhere 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.639 would cause the enormous amount of strife with agricultural interests, 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.440 right because where they gonna all go, So they live 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:30.399 up in the mountains in the winter or in the summer, 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.800 winter comes, they come down in the big riparian areas 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.640 and there on cattle grazing lands. They're ingrained, they're they're 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.400 on crop lands doing all kinds of damage. So at 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.120 a time, people did this, you know calculus in their 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.280 heads that were if we're gonna have herds of tens 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.040 of thousands of elk in these areas, um, and we 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.720 don't want to be a huge problem for landowners. We 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:58.560 need to find something to do. And so they fell 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:03.360 into the habit of feeding, making feeding grounds and to 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.120 to support what some people claim is like a artificially 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:13.240 high number of elk. They feed ungulates through the winter. 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.119 The surrounding states don't, but they do, and they're staying 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.160 true to it. What's finally drawing it into question now 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.960 is like c w D transmission, where you got from 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:28.359 hundreds of square miles. You have a magnet that sucks 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.760 all those deer and elkin, and so they stand around 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.520 in groups of thousands for the whole winter eating feed. 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.440 So it's legal defeat. It's legal to feed. And this 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.640 woman here is is taking advantage up with grizzlies, which 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:45.800 is really weird. And then when they pointed out to 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:49.160 whether it's dangerous, she accused the agents of being quote whimps. 0:23:53.880 --> 0:24:00.560 They cloned a blackfooted ferret, the first US and Dangers species, 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:07.280 black footed ferret. They had a specimen um that died 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:10.040 thirty years ago, and people are just getting into you know, 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.080 people are starting to realize the potential around genetics, and 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:18.960 they froze this ferret and the US So the US 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.399 Fish and Wildlife Service is raising a black footed ferret 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:28.280 in Fort Collins, Colorado that is a genetic copy of 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:36.240 a ferret named Willa who died. Think of that. I 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:40.080 think I like the name. I think Will is a 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.360 cool name. But they'd be good name for a daughter. 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.960 Actually was one of our plans if we had a girl. Ye, 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:51.040 we're having a boy instead. What do you name that boy? 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.720 I don't know yet. Cody Hunter. I don't think either 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:57.600 of those. You're not gonna name a Cody or Hunter. Dude, 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:01.080 everybody names their kids Cody and Hunter. No, but I 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:05.240 think it's amazing to use, you know, technology like that 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.720 to clone an animal that's that's gone, to try to 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:12.720 bring some genetics back into the existing population. Yeah, it's like, 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.119 but we we had a we had a if you 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:17.640 go way back in our library, we had an episode 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:20.760 called Cloning Mammoths. I think, Yeah, I remember with a 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.200 with the ancient genetics you know, DNA specialists, and she 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:30.119 kind of explained what they're really getting at, um some 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.800 of the some of like the the ethical and practical limitations, 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:36.480 because the real I think the thing everybody's aiming for 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:40.719 is that you would, um that we would bring back 0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:47.040 the passenger pigeon, right ah, And people point out that 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.920 what makes the animal okay? So pastor pigres are the 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.520 things that were in flocks of millions, you know, and 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:58.440 if you made one and had one, you could like 0:25:58.600 --> 0:25:59.920 put it in a cage and be like, that's a 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.879 past your pigeons, Like is it do? I mean, like, 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.000 is it really you know, does it qualify as a 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.320 passenger pigeon? Like would you ever be able to bring 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.600 that back? Right? But but I think in this situation 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:16.159 with ferrets, what you're talking about is an existing population 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.840 of endangered ferrets that there's active conservation work going on 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:23.280 to try to bring them back on the landscape. Right. 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:28.800 And then you have are you know, a ferret from 0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:33.520 not all that long ago, but that is very likely 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:38.240 different or hold some genetic diversity that no longer exists 0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.440 in ferrets. And I don't know this for certain, but 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:44.200 I could demand. I'm guessing it has to do with diversity. 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.760 And and so you're not you're not really trying to 0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.440 you're not trying to take that one ferret and repopulate 0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:55.560 North America, you know, the planes with ferrets, you're trying 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:59.760 to capture something that was essentially lost that could potentially 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:05.040 ring genetic diversity back into those populations. Yeah, we've talked, 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:07.000 we've we've covered this a little bit. For the blackfooted 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.720 ferrets are what's called Lazarus or what's known as a 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.800 Lazarus species, like Lazarus from was Lazarus in the Old 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:22.600 Testament the New Testament I think, oh Man. Anyways, in 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:25.560 the Bible, there's a fellow named Lazarus who comes back 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:31.480 from the dead, and the blackfooted ferret is a Lazarus species. 0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:36.040 People thought at a time that we had we humans 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:38.520 had wiped them off the face of the earth. And 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:43.440 as the story goes, uh, one day a rancher and 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:50.600 Matitzi Wyoming sees his dog carrying something unusual, and it 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.280 was a black footed ferret, and they found the prairie 0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:57.200 dog colony that was supporting this black footed ferret and 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:01.520 that in fact, they were not on right. And so 0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:06.200 from that, though right, you can imagine how narrow the 0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:11.159 potentially the genetic diversity of that species could have gotten. 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:15.760 And you know, again I don't I don't know anything 0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:19.280 about faret conservation, but I can imagine from other things 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.240 I know more about that being able to go back 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:26.760 in time and and grab some genetic material from an 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:29.119 individual that was you know, it's been gone for a 0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:33.000 long time now, and bringing that forward in order to 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.840 incorporate you know, in the captive bringing or you know, 0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.120 even into the wild could really be of a lot 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:45.160 of value. Yeah. Did I sound like I'm down on this? No, 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:47.320 I'm super into it. Just that it's not just it's 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:49.440 very different than saying like, oh, we're gonna bring back 0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:53.840 passenger pigeons, right, yeah, they're gone. If you know, if 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:58.280 you had millions of specimens with you know, well preserved DNA, 0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:03.880 would you potentially clone each individual that you have out 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:05.880 there and end up with millions of paste your pigeons 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:10.880 and somehow maybe I'm right, not likely, but different than 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:17.000 something that they're actively working on. Uh. When we talked 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.800 about the passenger pigeon thing, it's interesting to get into 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:24.600 this idea of what is the public's appetite. Like, let's say, 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.080 because the last passenger pigeon to die I think died 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:31.600 in or something. I know his name is Martha. I 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.680 know it died in the Cincinnati Zoo, it would be weird, 0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:38.800 Like it's funny to think about that there was um 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:43.560 that people knew it was the last one. This is it. Yeah, 0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:45.560 you could go to this zoo and they'd be like 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:51.760 that right, there is the last passenger pigeon. When she dies, 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.960 that species comes to an end. Maybe she died in 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:00.720 one when you boys figure that out. So they're just 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:05.760 sitting there. I just google the lazar a New Testament, 0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:12.800 New Testament, Thank you. Um. Anyways, they blink out right, 0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:18.240 and let's say you could uh, let's say you you 0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:21.760 were able to get them, make new ones, okay, and 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:25.080 propagate them, and you had some plan where we're gonna 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.520 be like no, no, no, we're gonna reintroduce and there 0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:33.800 will be flocks of millions of passenger pigeons that will 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:41.520 descend onto your crop field. How does everybody feel about this? Fourteen? 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:46.800 What did I say? Not that one? I was thinking 0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:53.520 like passed away September one, nine fourteen. Good job. Um. 0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:59.440 That would be an interesting test of public will because 0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:05.680 people don't be inconvenienced by wildlife generally. You know, it 0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.680 would be a hard sell for people. Some people. Some 0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:10.200 people will be like, I would like it from a 0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:13.680 hunting perspective, but I think you would probably encounter a 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:15.960 fair bit of resistance if you were really going to 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:20.200 do that. Yeah, and you may encounter some ecological drivers 0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:22.560 that would be hurdles. To it as well. I mean 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:26.720 it's you know, the landscape things have probably changed quite 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.480 a bit since they were really at their peak. And 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:32.560 I you know, I've often heard over hunting cited as 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:40.440 a reason for their demise, but you know that it 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:44.160 was a different world and right the late eighteen hundreds 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.160 when they were really starting to client. So who who 0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:52.440 knows if the ecological conditions still exists too, you know, 0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:56.200 would still exist to recover. I think the last big 0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:58.640 shoot I've read this sponge. I think the last big 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:03.840 slaughter was around Alpina, Michigan. Interesting, was one of the 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:08.000 last places where they really got on and shot, you know, right, 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:11.080 hundreds of thousands or millions of them was in Michigan. 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.520 And they would descend when trees were when mass producing 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:18.200 trees were coming in. They would just descend and strip 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:21.240 the trees. And people discussed, like so many landing on 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:25.240 branches of trees at the trees, branches would be snapping. Geez, 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:29.840 it's crazy. And I've also read that it was Some 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:33.760 people point out that it was probably that those huge 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:37.400 numbers were probably not hadn't always been that way, but 0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:41.040 it was like some perfect storm of decimation of other 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:45.520 wildlife agricultural practices at the time, and maybe it made 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:47.680 this sort of image that that's what it's like, or 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:50.280 like that that's what it's supposed to be like, but 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:54.000 in fact was a complete anomaly to have those explosive 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:55.800 numbers of those Well, yeah, and that's part of what 0:32:55.920 --> 0:33:00.760 I mean, right it is think about eastern four you 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:04.920 know that the timber harvests that happened through the ninete hundreds, 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:09.240 like in Pennsylvania, you know, completely change those forests from 0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:15.320 was it white pine dominated seth anyway from from you know, 0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:21.000 coniferous forests. Oh, Kevin, that's really messing up the sound. 0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:29.920 No change those forests changed from coniferous forests the deciduous forest, 0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:33.640 just based on timber harvests that happened all across Pennsylvania. 0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:36.680 And then also consider what's you know, like what happened 0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:40.840 with chestnut, right, chestnut blake came in Chessnut were predominant 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:45.479 species all up and down the East coast, and chestnut 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:49.000 blake completely wiped him out. And so again I don't 0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:51.600 know anything about the ecology or natural history of passing 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:55.080 your pinions, but you could imagine a situation where those 0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:59.920 you know, they played something like that that has complete 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.920 change now played some key role in their ecology and 0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:07.760 it just wouldn't be around anymore. Yeah, that's why I 0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:12.600 think that the I think that the blackfooted ferret is 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:18.520 a prime specimen for rehabilitation because you have we still 0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:22.359 have massive pray dog colonies that people spend a lot 0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:28.800 of money trying to control, but they control it with poison. 0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.080 Still it's weird, like as much as we hear about 0:34:32.120 --> 0:34:34.239 and the old that that that you know, during like 0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:38.320 the periods of predator annihilation in the late eighteen hunters 0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:42.279 and early that they were you know, indiscriminately poisoning carcasses 0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:46.800 to kill foxes, coyoes, wolves, whatever, mountain lions, bears to 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.120 sort of like depopulate predators. Was all through poisoning campaigns. 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:53.319 Um it's still used pray dogs. Like you go out 0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:58.799 and seed prairie dog colonies with poison pellets, and that's 0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.919 what's credited with killing off black footed ferrets is they're 0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:06.960 getting there they're eating poisoned prairie dogs. But it's interesting 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:09.359 to think, like here, you have this surplus of food 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.520 that's available if you can get these things on there, 0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.640 and then somehow prevent them from but then not use 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:18.600 poison control which were then turned around and kill the 0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:21.080 black footed ferret. But I don't know if black footed 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:25.080 farets ever are effective enough to like actually control pray 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.800 dog populations, because when you read historical accounts like the 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:32.520 entire great planes of the praye dog colony, Yeah, it's 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:36.359 not like they were killing them off. Yeah, to be clear, 0:35:36.760 --> 0:35:39.640 way out of my depth. Oh no, you don't. You 0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:41.080 don't need to test, you don't need to be given 0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:44.600 expert testimony. But I'll tell you this that you guys 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:46.759 brought up Pennsylvania. This is a good thing from Pennsylvania. 0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:49.080 We had an arborist. We had this squirrel guy on 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:52.480 the episode was called the squirrel Doctors in he's a 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:57.000 squirrel doctor um, like a PhD in squirrels um. And 0:35:57.080 --> 0:35:59.719 he talked a lot about how they're so good at 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:04.280 not dying when they fall from trees. And an arborist 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:10.200 wrote in Western Pennsylvania Arborist, he was saying he has 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:17.200 seen realistically fifty squirrels jump out of trees over seventy high, 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:22.640 some out of a hundred foot trees. He said that 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:24.799 three out of four that he's seen this is when 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:27.920 he's ascending a tree to prune it and bust squirrel out. 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:30.919 Squirrel can't come down because he's in it. He said. 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.480 Three out of four of them hit the grass, bounce 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.680 three ft in the air and land running. He had 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:41.520 a fox squirrel one time jump eighty ft and he 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:43.840 said there was a two inch or two ft diameter 0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:46.880 puddle of water. A fox squirrel jumped eighty feet and 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:51.480 hit that water pool like it was He said it 0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:57.600 was like it was aiming for it. But he says 0:36:57.640 --> 0:36:59.440 an hard time. He was not in a tree. He 0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:01.399 was just sitting in a driveway mine in his own 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.560 business in a car, and he sees a fox squirrel 0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:06.720 fall out of a tree and hit a phone line 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:10.680 ten ft from the ground, died right before his eyes. 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:17.760 He then another squirrel came down, full grown squirrel, halfed 0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:20.080 it up his dead friend and carried him back up 0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:25.520 into the tree. What I witness account? That's crazy. It's 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.839 good friend. I see him for just I've been walking 0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:32.400 through the woods and just squirrel hits the ground like 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:35.000 it must have just fell out, just hits the ground, 0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:38.480 takes off round. No, yeah, I've definitely seen where they 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:43.160 just come out and in uh iguanas or inexplicably fall 0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:45.800 from trees when it now when it gets to you 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:47.319 know what if you see this like now when they 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:49.000 get it gets super cold, you know they got the 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:52.080 invasive iguanas in Florida during that big cold snap that 0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:54.880 just happened, they had to put out warnings about falling iguanas. 0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:59.600 No ship. Yeah, yeah, imagine you mess you up. But 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.120 when just in Arkansas we found I told about we 0:38:02.160 --> 0:38:04.239 canna tell you about this mic rule and we're just 0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:05.920 an Arkansas. We found a lot of birds that it 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:09.400 froze to death during that cold snap. One day, we 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:13.920 found three froze to death woodpeckers in one day, just 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:18.759 not a mark on them. It looked like a live woodpecker, 0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:22.279 but it was dead laying on the forest floor. Mike, 0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:24.200 we had a big bird guy off here in your Mexico. 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:26.640 Do you recall what that was it was from? Was 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:30.160 it the cold spell? Was it trout? My understanding was 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:34.080 that it was it was mostly cold. Was that I 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:36.720 think it was that October It was a cold snap 0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:39.920 earlier this year. Those birds didn't have a lot of 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:42.680 fat on him, I think was what I heard. And uh, 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:47.400 they died of exposure. They had a way to go 0:38:47.520 --> 0:39:00.239 for a bird. So we're recording right now in um 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:08.279 how how it doesn't matter. We're indemning New Mexico and 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:10.400 we're down here because I had a stellar year on 0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:14.279 my permit draw, to say the least. Now, listen, here's 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.040 the thing. A lot of people are like, oh yeah, 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:21.440 they give you special treatment because like you have a 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:23.919 TV show, so you get all these permit draws. Listen, 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:28.040 I apply for everything in every state, Okay. I apply 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:32.480 for everything in every state, and every year like you 0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:35.200 get something, but I'm applying for everything in every state. 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:40.160 You know, like this year in Alaska drew nothing. Last 0:39:40.239 --> 0:39:43.920 year in Alaska drew nothing. Okay, but I just so 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:46.160 happened to hit not even know if it's statics. You 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:48.880 guys can tell me how extraordinary it is. I happened 0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:52.640 to in one year in New Mexico draw and what's 0:39:52.680 --> 0:40:00.680 called an off range orics tag and drew a female 0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:07.240 or immature billy ibex tag all in one fell swoop 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:14.560 one year draw. The New Mexico doesn't do bonus points, 0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.240 and and we've explained hundreds thousand times, but bonus points 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:21.239 are like if you apply for a permit and don't 0:40:21.280 --> 0:40:23.400 get it, they sort of reward you as a repeat 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.080 customer by giving you like a point, and then your 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:29.520 name goes into the hat basically like your name goes 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:31.719 into had an additional time the next year, and it's 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:33.399 like it kind of like baits you in to keep 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:36.239 you active. New Mexico doesn't engage in that. So I 0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:38.680 could be applying for an ORCS tag for fifty years 0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:41.360 and some whipper snapper comes in and applies for his 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.600 first time, and the fifty year veteran and the whipper 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:47.080 snapper have the exact same odds of drawn the ORCS tag. 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:48.879 But I had put in for quite a few years 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:51.440 for an ORCS tag, but drew the ORCS tag off range. 0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:53.279 And we talked about this in the past, and it's 0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:57.520 it's that on range means White Sands missile range, and 0:40:57.600 --> 0:41:00.920 off range means the rest of the damn state. The 0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:05.279 IBEX tag that I drew is for the Florida, not 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:09.880 Florida with the Florida mountains, and which you New Mexicans 0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:14.680 wants to talk through, Uh, how this came to be, 0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:18.080 Why this is a thing, Why IBEX hunting is a thing, 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:21.759 like how like how who? Well, Jeremy, can you say 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:22.960 where you work or you have to not you have 0:41:23.040 --> 0:41:26.320 to tell Yeah, I work for the National Wildlife Federation 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:30.759 on the Regional Connectivity Coordinator. See that, Mike, It just 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:34.200 comes right out and says it. Try to act like 0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:42.399 he's in the CIA. I know af you but yeah, 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:44.480 I mean, you know, going back to but but you 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:46.319 know what before you do that, tell people more about 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.920 what you're about your work? Well, UM, I work mostly 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:54.000 on on landscape wildlife connectivity issues across the West, So 0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.560 looking at landscapes and how well connected they are UM 0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:00.719 most folks, you know, one of the best ways to 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.120 describe that and put that in a perspective is through 0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:07.400 the lens of migration corridors, so ungulate migration corridors, you know, 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:09.880 looking at that landscape and how well connected it is. 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:12.480 One of the first measures you can do to look 0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:15.080 at how well a landscape connect is connected is by 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:19.400 looking at the barriers right, so roads, fences, urban development, 0:42:19.520 --> 0:42:23.280 things that can impede and service barriers to to movement 0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:27.040 of wildlife and ensuring that landscapes UM stay connected. So 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:30.880 a lot of my work is working with UM multiple stakeholders. Right, 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:33.759 wildlife no no boundaries for the most part. So when 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:37.680 wildlife are migrating across jurisdictional boundaries, it's important to work 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:42.000 with those both those multiple engaged stakeholders, from tribes to 0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:46.720 private land owners to UH federal agents, land management agencies, 0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:49.760 state wildlife agencies. You know, it's it's important for folks 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:52.680 to be on the same page and to manage cordinally 0:42:52.760 --> 0:42:54.640 for those species, because we want to make sure they're 0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:56.600 they're around right. We don't want them be having these 0:42:56.680 --> 0:43:00.040 conversations about al camilder that we're having about black for 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:03.439 the ferrets and passenger pist You know, we're close after 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:07.800 the border. You can see the surveillance blimp. Right do 0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:10.439 you work when you're doing connectivity stuff? Are you working 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:13.520 with Mexico as well? So I'm I'm not as far 0:43:13.600 --> 0:43:16.440 south in New Mexico. UM, so I don't really work 0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:19.040 with Mexico, but I do have colleagues who do, and 0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:23.720 they do things like a black bear, um cougar, also birds. 0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:26.880 They do a lot of avian species of migration. I know. 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.680 I think montezoomc quail is is a is a species 0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:33.960 of hot topic there at the border. But for the 0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:36.840 most part, I have not been focusing most of my 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:41.520 work on on wildlife boarder issues. I do the people 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:45.600 that do work on the um connectivity issues across the border, 0:43:45.640 --> 0:43:48.279 they've probably been spending their recent years like focused on 0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:52.799 one thing, which is the border wall. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, 0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:57.640 as I was mentioning, right, like barriers, barriers to movement, 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:00.360 there's no bigger barrier than a border wall. Yeah. It 0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:02.000 was funny about that too. Is most of barriers you 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:04.080 talk about and you talk about wildlife migrations are things 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.239 that are sort of like accidentally a barrier, Like no 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:07.640 one like it is like, let's put it in a highway. 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:09.560 That would be a good barrier. It's like, let's put 0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:11.719 it in a highway because it's sweet because you can 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:14.359 drive around real good. And then someone later is like, oh, ship, 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:16.680 it's a big barrier. But there you're like, let's make 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:23.080 a barrier. It's very purpose built. It's it's well distinguished. Um, 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:26.680 there's there's purpose behind it. Um. You know. During the 0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:28.440 construction of the border wall, I think there was a 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.840 lot of controversy to those exact issues on what they 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:34.160 would do to the ecological state of that landscape and 0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:38.400 providing for a well connected landscape for various species, um, 0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:40.680 you know, and and the arguments still out there, I 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:44.000 think I think it's safe to say that it was. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:47.320 The border wall has been pretty invasive in those landscapes 0:44:47.360 --> 0:44:51.480 where where they have been constructing it, And so I 0:44:51.560 --> 0:44:54.279 would go as far as saying that, you know, when 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.320 you do something of that magnitude, there is going to 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.080 be consequences that there are going to be repercussions in 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.160 some way, shape or forman um. You know, sometimes the 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.560 wildlife are the ones who are are the recipients of that. Yeah, 0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:07.839 I know, I know that. Like I'm I'm talking about 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.040 I'm talking. This is me talking right now. This is 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:12.359 not Jeremy talking like I'm I'm going to talk now. 0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:14.440 And I don't want you to be guilty, guilty by association. 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.040 But the thing that it's so funny I found with 0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:20.600 people and talk about the border wall is people that 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:26.680 support that want a wall are very uneasy if you 0:45:26.840 --> 0:45:32.560 bring up, if you even point out a problem with it, 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:36.480 they want to act like that doesn't exist. You could 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:38.919 still look and be like no, no, I like all 0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:43.439 things considered, all things factored in, I'd still like the wall, 0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:49.200 but they get I rate, if you suggest what the 0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:52.279 implications would be for wildlife, it's like they get mad 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:56.440 that you bring it up instead, like I would imagine 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:58.680 you would take the approach of, oh, yes, totally, I 0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:04.560 understand this is a big problem for wildlife, but my 0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:10.240 I'm giving priority to the human issues, to the economic issues, 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:14.359 and even though it's not ideal for wildlife, I'm still 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:18.759 deciding to support it. But people aren't, like they don't 0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:20.239 look at it that way, like if you bring it up, 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:22.880 you're a bad person to bring it up, which is 0:46:22.920 --> 0:46:26.200 sort of emblematic of a general reluctance to sort of 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:30.120 general reluctance these days to just to like discuss and 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:33.880 debate things and consider them in their totality. I mean, 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:36.839 it's been really like I've had people get so if 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:40.200 we run articles or post articles about wildlife issues in 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:45.239 the border wall, people just get piste, Well, it's a 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:48.440 political issue too, right, Um. There's there's a lot to 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:54.000 that argument, and I would I would think about it 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:58.960 as as the new border wall that's been constructed. There 0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:01.759 was a border wall there before or right, um, and 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:05.320 that didn't prevent a lot of things from happening, and 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.520 even with the new border wall, things are still happening, right, Um, 0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:10.680 I think I just I just read an article the 0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:13.920 other day about a suv carrying I think it was 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:16.399 twenty passengers that wrecked on the highway and they got 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:19.440 through a hole in the border wall. So to what 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:26.399 level is creating a border wall? Uh, actually solving the issue? Um? 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:32.520 And with that comes all those arguments, right yeah? Um? 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:36.279 And I think, like I do think it's we're talking about. 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:38.200 But if let's say you point out let's say you're 0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:41.600 planning a family vacation. Okay, you're like, oh, I think 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:44.880 we should go on family vacation, and someone says, um, 0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:47.359 you know, if we go on family vacation, we will 0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:50.720 have less money because we'll have spent money on our vacation. 0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:56.080 No one gets mad at that person. Instead, you'd be like, yes, correct, 0:47:56.520 --> 0:47:59.760 we will have less money, but the vacation is important. 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:01.440 We're still going to go on the vacation. Like, you 0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:06.520 don't get pissed at people for bringing up the considerations 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:12.200 except this, then it's you're you're a bad person to 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:14.120 bring up It's just it's kind of I know, this 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.279 is like a side pet Peeve, and I do want 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:18.360 to return to Ibex, but just it remains in my 0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:20.720 mind and anytime I'm down here looking at the border, 0:48:20.760 --> 0:48:23.520 I start thinking about it again. I mean, it's it's 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.520 real time here, you know. I mean the border wall 0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:29.960 or is a day to day issue that everyone here 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:33.960 has to interact with for the most part. Yeah, it 0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:36.960 winds up not being like um, like up in the North, 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:42.920 you're like, you know, southern border. I mean there's I 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:44.840 mean there's places on our border where there's not a 0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:48.880 border wall. There hasn't ever been a border wall. All right. 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:55.360 Back to the Ibex. Well, you know, the Ibex. Ibex 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:58.040 were introduced in New Mexico and the Florida Mountain Range 0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:01.160 back in the seventies with the whole exotic push that 0:49:01.200 --> 0:49:04.080 our state took, you know, utilizing some of these barren 0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:07.640 landscapes to have hunting opportunity. And in doing so, they 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:10.680 saw one of the game commissioners at the time, through 0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:13.960 his travels across the world, saw these various species and 0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:17.960 as I as I mentioned on previous Orex talk, um 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.799 he saw um the opportunity to introduce some of these 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:25.239 exotic species into New Mexico. Right, So, Stevie had the 0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:28.160 opportunity to hunting orix. That was one of the species. 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:30.680 One of the other ones they tried to introduce was 0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:34.640 also the kudu that that never took um. And then 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:37.799 they also introduced ibex. Two species of ibex. In fact, 0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:41.360 one was the Siberian ibex that was introduced into the 0:49:41.560 --> 0:49:45.200 Canadian River drainage. Uh folks probably know that as the 0:49:45.239 --> 0:49:50.920 sabiosa wilderness um. And then they also introduced the Persian ibex. 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:53.400 People also call that the Bazaar ibex, and that was 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:56.640 introduced into the Florida Mountain range. Was this was this 0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:59.120 coming from one individual? Is there like a person who's 0:49:59.160 --> 0:50:02.160 kind of like Johnny apple Seed of exotics was? Yeah, 0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:04.359 I don't recall his name, but he was a state 0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.879 game commissioner at the time, and he just saw this opportunity. 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.480 He said, you know, my my home landscape doesn't hold animals, 0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:13.120 and I want to be able to have the same 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:16.160 opportunities of hunting these exotic animals that I was overseas 0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:19.680 and from what I got from my researches. He worked 0:50:19.680 --> 0:50:22.759 with the other game commissioners to propose the idea. Um. 0:50:22.960 --> 0:50:25.680 You know, there's there's obviously. Uh, I think an economic 0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:27.560 driver behind it. You know, if you want to create 0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:33.160 hunting opportunities, and in doing so, they they assess the 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:36.239 landscape for those species that would seem more appropriate and 0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:40.680 they seem to find them, you know, in New and 0:50:40.840 --> 0:50:44.160 sorry not New Mexico. In New Zealand, there was actually 0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:51.560 committees of people that the focus of the committee was 0:50:51.719 --> 0:50:59.480 to make the fauna similar to Europe's. Interesting it was 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:03.479 to make it familiar and bring in like red deer 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.319 and you know, all that kind of stuff. So it's 0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:11.520 like it's definitely not um uh, you know, it's not 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:15.719 like exclusively in New Mexico thing, but it's interesting that 0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:18.560 three things took so well, oh yeah, I mean, you know, 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:23.120 or x X and other and various other exotic species 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:25.239 are are not in uton North America, right. You look 0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:28.719 at Texas, there's high fence ranches that have worrix other 0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:32.239 types of ris as well other exotic species. But New 0:51:32.320 --> 0:51:35.120 Mexico is a unique place where we have free ranging 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:38.680 exotic animals right that are largely on public land, all 0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.920 predominantly on public land. The only ones that aren't on 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:43.759 public land for the most part. You know, you've got 0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:47.800 barbary running around private land, but you also have orris 0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:50.080 on Department of Defense land on the missile range. Other 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:53.160 than that, most of those most of those exotic species 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:57.600 are calling public land home. Yeah, Jeremy's coming off of 0:51:58.239 --> 0:52:04.040 an exotic trifecta in one week. One week, I was 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:07.719 fortunate enough to harvest a barbary sheep, and then a 0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.840 colleague of ours wife had a once in a lifetime 0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:17.480 RIX hunt on range, and so, uh, last Sunday, Saturday, 0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:22.480 I helped out and was fortunate enough to be a 0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:26.280 part of that little excursion where she where my buddy's 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:30.520 wife harvested her once in a lifetime orix. And then 0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:33.520 I hustled down here to meet you to finish the 0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:38.319 trifecta for Jason Persian ibex. Uh, get into a little 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:43.880 bit about how many of those, like how many ibex 0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:46.120 came to be in this mountain range, and what conversations 0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:49.279 had to come out about, you know where where other 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:52.279 interested parties started have an opinion about this, because it's 0:52:52.840 --> 0:52:54.600 it's like an interesting thing that you see time and 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:58.680 again with with wildlife politics. And yeah, yeah, so let's 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:01.600 let's take it back to kind of the initial reintroduction. 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:06.240 So New Mexico is a state where you cannot introduce 0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:10.480 animals from outside of the state onto the public land right, 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:15.840 So in order for the state too introduce Persian ibex 0:53:16.560 --> 0:53:19.759 or x Siberian ibex, they had to do they had 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:22.960 to reintroduce their or introduce their progeny. So a lot 0:53:23.040 --> 0:53:25.200 of these animals when they were brought to New Mexico, 0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:29.160 they were held in holding facilities long enough to have progeny. 0:53:29.440 --> 0:53:32.400 Once that progeny was old enough, then they introduced them 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:35.880 into these different landscapes. So for ibex, for example, UM, 0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:38.520 I think the total number was give or take forty 0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:42.600 ibex that were introduced on onto the Florida Mountains. And 0:53:43.120 --> 0:53:47.600 since then that population rapidly expanded. Um I think within 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:50.680 I think it was within four years of the initial 0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:54.080 introduction they were offering hunting opportunities on the Florida. Yeah. 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:55.600 I want to give people some idea that when we 0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.600 talk about the Florida Mountains, um, when you go to 0:53:58.680 --> 0:54:00.640 download a map on on X, people are famliar with 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:03.840 on actual note that when you go to download a 0:54:03.920 --> 0:54:07.359 map for offline use, you can download a map ten 0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:11.080 miles wide, Okay, and it's taller than it is. Why 0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:12.920 it's ten miles wide, and normal you're going to hang 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:15.479 out somewhere, you wind up. I usually wind up taking 0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:19.560 the center of my activities, and I'll download four and 0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:21.919 I'll use that as like the center point, and I'll 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:24.760 do like a square, a square, square, and a square, 0:54:24.760 --> 0:54:26.680 and they all meet at that middle point, and that's 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:29.120 what I'll do to get the area I'm gonna be in. Well, 0:54:29.160 --> 0:54:30.320 I thought it was just to give a sense of 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:34.520 scale here. When I went to download a map for 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.920 this hunting trip, I put the center of the Florida 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:41.839 Mountains on the center of the ten mile square map 0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:46.600 and it fits very elegantly top the bottom, side to side. 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:48.239 It was like, and I had a good buffer of 0:54:48.360 --> 0:54:54.160 flat desert, but it's like a stunning pile of cliffs 0:54:56.360 --> 0:54:59.040 that just rise up out of the desert. Man, I mean, 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:04.200 like the jaggedy It's like it's like a weird, sort 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:08.279 of crazy castle constructed out in the middle of the desert. Yeah. 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:10.399 I think I think we figured when we were sitting 0:55:10.440 --> 0:55:13.240 on the top of that mountain that we were gaining 0:55:13.360 --> 0:55:18.000 somewhere of three thousand feet in elevation as we were 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:21.120 climbing going about a mile, going about a mile, give 0:55:21.200 --> 0:55:25.800 or take incredibly steve mostly rock five five five miles 0:55:25.880 --> 0:55:28.799 wide on that Onyx map and three thousand feet tall. 0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:32.319 I mean, it's just it's it's like it came out 0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:35.600 of nowhere, and that mountain range is just straight up 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:40.400 like you said, it's it's an unforgiving it's basically a 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:44.840 granite face with sheer cliffs. Everything there cuts and tears 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:48.480 up your boots, pokes you, stabs you, cuts you. It's 0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:54.680 just a unforgiving landscape that Ibex just looked right at home, right, 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:56.560 And yeah, it's funny because there's no one, there's no 0:55:56.719 --> 0:56:01.400 North American animals that would do it quite like they 0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:03.759 do it. In terms of living on cliff face. Yeah, 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:07.319 I don't think there's an order basically eating gravel. Yeah, 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:10.399 basically eating gravel. And I mean I've seen I've seen 0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:13.560 Ibex on a two hundred foot cliff eating just the 0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:17.279 tiniest little bush possible. And you're wondering, you're you know, 0:56:17.360 --> 0:56:20.080 you're asking yourself looking two d feet below where all 0:56:20.160 --> 0:56:23.080 the vegetation is. What I that animals standing two hundred 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:25.279 feet up the cliff just well, that's what ibex do 0:56:25.480 --> 0:56:27.839 that they walk around the cliff face, like to walk 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:31.600 on vertical cliff faces. And then when uh so, perfect 0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:33.319 kind of little spot for them and they don't men there, 0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:35.000 and what happens They put forty in and it just 0:56:35.120 --> 0:56:37.560 blows up. So they put forty in. It blew up. 0:56:37.600 --> 0:56:39.200 As I was saying, you know, within I think four 0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:42.640 years they were offering hunting opportunities. And then you know, 0:56:42.760 --> 0:56:44.800 when it comes to how many years, I think it 0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:47.560 was within four years of the population being introduced, they 0:56:47.600 --> 0:56:49.759 were they were already opening up hunts. And that's a 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:52.319 pretty impressive growth, it is, I mean, And to put 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:56.279 that in a perspective when ibex, when ibex have kids, right, 0:56:56.440 --> 0:57:01.920 Billy's nanni's kids are called kids. It's common for nannies 0:57:02.000 --> 0:57:06.720 to have twins and sometimes triplets. So you can imagine 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:09.520 how quick that population, if it's not being if it's 0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:13.239 not being managed through through hunting opportunities, how quick it 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:16.800 can can explode. And the topography isn't really conducive for 0:57:16.840 --> 0:57:19.920 anything outside of a mountain lion. Yeah, I mean, you know, 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:23.040 lions and ibex, anything anything you need to run down 0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:26.160 its prey isn't gonna kill anything, right, No, I mean 0:57:26.200 --> 0:57:29.200 occasionally we'd see the old cotton tail ground squirrel up there, 0:57:29.280 --> 0:57:32.280 but other than that, you know, lions and ibex seemed 0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:36.960 to feel right at home there, and it blew so. 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:40.800 At a point though, someone points out that like the 0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:43.240 land management agents and points out that, man, you've got 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:45.480 too many these damn things running. Yeah, yeah, the the 0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:49.200 you know, the BLM, and I'm sure with coordination with 0:57:49.240 --> 0:57:51.520 the game and Fish determined that the carrying capacity for 0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:54.360 that mountain is about needs to be around four hundred 0:57:54.760 --> 0:58:00.160 and so, realizing through through various surveys that that numbers 0:58:01.080 --> 0:58:04.760 was well above the carrying capacity of four animals, they 0:58:04.840 --> 0:58:09.200 started to increase the hunting opportunities to control that population. 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:12.600 And so um previous to the top the tag that 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:16.120 you draw drew the immature male female tag, there were 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:20.080 hunting opportunities, population management hunts where folks could come in 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:24.080 and harvest too, nannies, um and it and might correct 0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:26.120 me if I'm wrong that that was probably over a 0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:30.959 five seven year, seven year span. And I got another 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:33.120 question from Mike the real quide yet Yeah, I don't 0:58:33.160 --> 0:58:35.800 know that Mike would have any exposure into this, but 0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:41.000 do you have a sense Mike, how they count the ibex. Well, yeah, 0:58:41.240 --> 0:58:45.720 I know how to count the I know some people 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:52.560 who well, well, before before the bound you sleep with 0:58:52.720 --> 0:58:58.480 one of them. So counting and quantifying the number of 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.320 ibex on the landscape was has been described. Yea, this 0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:03.920 is a good quote that's been described. I was watching 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:07.240 a talk about these exotic species and the big game 0:59:07.280 --> 0:59:09.960 biologists for the new Mexican Apartment game, and Fish does 0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:15.400 a great job. She said. The best way to explain 0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:18.840 to folks on how to count ibex is by taking 0:59:19.080 --> 0:59:23.440 a large barrel of ping pong balls and throwing it 0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:26.440 off a cliff and trying to count every one of 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:29.120 those ping pong balls is they're bouncing, flying all over 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:34.920 the place. Damn near impossible. So with that they do 0:59:35.280 --> 0:59:41.040 both aerial surveys with helicopters and ground surveys with lots 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:44.919 of observers around the mountain range. Huh, So they knew 0:59:44.960 --> 0:59:47.240 the aerial part. So you send a bunch of people 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:50.040 up with vinyls that just try to count ibex. Yeah, 0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:52.920 I just like imagine the glassing spots that we use 0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:56.520 this year basically on you know, for a day or 0:59:56.560 --> 0:59:59.480 two surround the mountain with lots of folks who are 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:03.800 experienced set at glassing those things up, and it seems 1:00:03.880 --> 1:00:10.320 imperfect because how the skills, like the skill set required 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:16.400 of glassing up ibex, observer bias, just observer skills that. Yeah, no, 1:00:16.640 --> 1:00:19.360 I mean it's all survey isn't perfect, right, I mean 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:23.760 there's no, it's it's you don't get perfect numbers um. 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:26.000 But what you do build up over time, of course, 1:00:26.160 --> 1:00:32.160 is is count data that as long as things are 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:36.840 being done in the same way, you get what relative pictures, 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:42.000 what folks would call an index of abundance. Right, And Mike, 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:44.600 I think when I when I was watching that talk, 1:00:44.720 --> 1:00:47.360 they had explained that the aerial surveys were good at 1:00:47.440 --> 1:00:51.360 getting an idea of numbers, right, quantifying the amount um. 1:00:51.520 --> 1:00:55.840 The ground surveys were giving a better perspective of sex 1:00:56.200 --> 1:01:01.440 and age. So yeah, I believe that got you. It's 1:01:01.480 --> 1:01:04.320 easier to count running than it is to count IBEX 1:01:04.360 --> 1:01:06.720 running and determine what sex it is, right, and then 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:08.360 when when, when it got to be there's so many 1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:10.640 ibex they really got serious about trying to kill them off. 1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:14.080 I think that they found that, like the difference in 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:19.400 a male ibex. But there's difference in a billy and 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:23.520 a nanny stunning because the billy will throw a up 1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:28.320 to like fifty inch horn and beats considerably larger. When 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:32.720 those billies get mature, they get the old fashioned billy goat, gruff, goatee. 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:35.840 They get these big, sweeping, you know, up to fifty 1:01:35.880 --> 1:01:41.320 inch horns, and the head they change a completely different color. 1:01:41.400 --> 1:01:44.960 Those those mature billies they get a lot wider. They 1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:48.440 get this big prominent black cross around their chest, in 1:01:48.520 --> 1:01:51.840 their back. And when you see a mature billy there 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:54.240 on the mountain, you know it's a mature billy. They're 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.960 distinguishably different than the rest. It's got a skull on 1:01:58.080 --> 1:02:00.000 any person would want to put on their book show 1:02:00.400 --> 1:02:01.920 to take a hell of a bookshelf. But I mean 1:02:02.000 --> 1:02:09.840 like an insane looking animal. But then the nanny's are Yeah, 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:12.960 I think you know, they said no one wants to 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:15.200 shoot them, so they had to like incentivize people to 1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:21.080 start shooting ibex well, I meaning that like the little 1:02:21.160 --> 1:02:23.680 tag draw thing. Yeah, I don't know if they were 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:27.480 I don't know if they were offering nanny hunts prior 1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:32.360 to focusing on managing the population but in doing so 1:02:32.560 --> 1:02:35.560 to manage the population, they focused on nanny's and immature 1:02:35.640 --> 1:02:39.200 males um and they've I think it's safe to say 1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:44.840 that they've been pretty effective at knocking down the population 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.200 to that carrying compassity because when they were when there 1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:48.880 was a ton of them, they were blowing out into 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:51.640 other mountain ranges. Oh yeah, absolutely. When when there was that, 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:55.160 when there was that high level of density of IBEX, 1:02:55.200 --> 1:02:57.560 they were looking for other areas. And so you know, 1:02:57.840 --> 1:02:59.800 when I was when I was in college, I saw 1:03:00.200 --> 1:03:04.080 two billies forty miles from the from their range and 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:10.520 it's not so that's interesting, right, So billy ibex on range, 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:14.200 those are drawing only hunts. Now, being that they want 1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:17.880 that population centralized on the Florida Mountains, they offer an 1:03:17.960 --> 1:03:21.640 unlimited IBEX tag for off range anywhere outside of the 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:26.200 Florida Mountains. So when I did see those billies, I 1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:28.240 made a bee line back into town and go get 1:03:28.320 --> 1:03:31.320 an off range IBEX tag. Came right back out the 1:03:31.400 --> 1:03:33.080 next day and never found him. How long did you 1:03:33.120 --> 1:03:38.080 look for him? Probably two and a half weeks. I 1:03:38.440 --> 1:03:40.840 never could find them, never, never could find them. I 1:03:41.680 --> 1:03:43.320 your guess is as good as mine. The area I 1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:45.840 was was just the fact that I even saw them 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:49.200 there was unbelievable. It was, you know, flatland country with 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:52.640 just this single lava rock mind mound, and on the 1:03:52.720 --> 1:03:55.800 top there they were. And you know, it's not uncommon 1:03:56.040 --> 1:04:00.720 for for hunters or individuals to see ibex around some 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:04.000 of these surrounding mountain ranges right. Um. Every now and 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:06.400 then you'll get a hunter who kills a billiard in 1:04:06.400 --> 1:04:09.840 Annie off the Florida's um and that's that's a feat. 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:14.600 I mean, that's an accomplishment, right Those they're smaller, hard 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:18.720 to find, and so you know, I think two years 1:04:18.720 --> 1:04:22.160 ago when I did draw the archery tag, um, I 1:04:22.200 --> 1:04:24.760 feel like there were a lot more ibex just two 1:04:24.840 --> 1:04:26.480 years ago, two years go. And mind you you know, 1:04:26.600 --> 1:04:28.960 the archery tag and the rifle tag are different. Archery 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:31.400 is is a little at the beginning, so they're not 1:04:31.520 --> 1:04:34.080 as pressured, so they're probably more spread you know, they're 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:37.080 not as spread out as they are um. But from 1:04:37.280 --> 1:04:39.840 from my experience, I felt like there were a lot 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:42.640 more ibex than than this hunt we were on, which 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:46.840 which is you know, a testament to the management approach 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:50.320 that the Game Department has taken and increasing the the 1:04:50.440 --> 1:04:54.440 number of tags offered, and hunters have been successful in 1:04:55.240 --> 1:04:57.800 bringing the you know, the population down. But it's a 1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:00.600 big mountain, right, I mean four animals like we were 1:05:00.600 --> 1:05:03.480 talking about on a on a mountain like that. Mind you. 1:05:03.760 --> 1:05:07.160 You know the on x map high resolution map doesn't 1:05:07.200 --> 1:05:09.919 put it in a perspective. It covers that whole mountain range, 1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:12.680 but once you're on that mountain there are crooks and 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:16.200 crannies and thick vegetation that could hide a lot of 1:05:16.240 --> 1:05:19.360 IBEX going into it. I was not inspired by the 1:05:19.480 --> 1:05:23.880 count number. Once I saw the mountain range and knowing 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:27.040 that they're running around in groups, I was like, that's 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:29.520 not that. Like if you had four of them, four 1:05:29.920 --> 1:05:31.120 of them and you told him he's to stay in 1:05:31.160 --> 1:05:33.160 his own little spot, you know, it would be one thing. 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:34.720 But the fact that in groups, I was like, man, 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.720 that's not that. There's a lot of places that don't 1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:39.320 have an IBEX. Yeah. I have friends who you know, 1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:42.880 with probably within the last five years, have seen groups 1:05:42.920 --> 1:05:45.560 of ibex. Well, you know, fifty to one hundred and 1:05:45.680 --> 1:05:47.840 one in one group. When you look at it from 1:05:47.880 --> 1:05:49.959 that perspective to where we're at now, that's it's quarter 1:05:50.040 --> 1:05:53.600 of the population and one big group. Now, you know, 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:56.720 I don't think there's large groups like that at the moment, 1:05:57.440 --> 1:06:03.160 but but there were, and and it's a it's it's 1:06:03.200 --> 1:06:06.160 a big mountain. I think there's of a lot of 1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:11.680 places for ibex too to hide. Jeremy layout the season 1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:14.000 because there's like a bunch of different seasons for these 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:16.680 right yeah, so there when can you start unting on? When? 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:19.160 And when does like the last season end? So this 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:21.680 hunt right now is the last. I believe it's in 1:06:21.760 --> 1:06:24.840 the last hunt, and it's an immature male female female hunt. 1:06:24.920 --> 1:06:29.640 Now before that, you have opportunities for archery for billy 1:06:30.000 --> 1:06:33.080 or either sex archery tags or either sex tags. And 1:06:33.160 --> 1:06:37.360 that's that's the club you belong called. I belong to 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:41.520 the percent club because people who draw that archery tag 1:06:41.640 --> 1:06:44.040 do not fill it and do not get a billy 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:47.240 or or an IBEX for that matter. So I am 1:06:47.320 --> 1:06:51.320 a proud member of the club. And that starts in October. 1:06:51.520 --> 1:06:54.080 That starts in October, so you have archery hunts for 1:06:54.200 --> 1:06:57.680 October and January UM and then in between there you 1:06:57.800 --> 1:07:01.400 have a multitude of one in the lifetime billy rifle 1:07:01.480 --> 1:07:03.200 hunts for those who are lucky enough to draw it. 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:07.480 You have youth muzzle loader hunts, rifle hunts. I believe, um, 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:09.840 but it kind of just, you know, varies like that, 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:12.280 and then it goes into more of what we want 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:17.240 to call population management, which is immature immature male female, 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:19.480 And in order to kill an immature male it has 1:07:19.560 --> 1:07:24.640 to be less than fifteen inches um. Ibex are small. 1:07:25.360 --> 1:07:28.200 Judge in a fifteen inch ibex can be difficult. Yeah, 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:31.560 I was surprised how spooky they were, Oh my god. 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:36.120 But then Jerry brought up that they've been people have 1:07:36.200 --> 1:07:39.120 been hunting these things since October. It's March and they've 1:07:39.120 --> 1:07:41.240 been getting on in since October. Yeah, but to touch 1:07:41.320 --> 1:07:45.480 on that that they are exceptionally spooky, but ibex are 1:07:45.880 --> 1:07:49.760 few things I've seen. I have seen few things. Is 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:52.520 touchy as they are touching and they're like that in 1:07:52.720 --> 1:07:55.320 in October. I mean, you know, there might be a 1:07:55.400 --> 1:07:58.000 lot more ibex that you have plays at because they're 1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:01.000 not as pressured, but they are all on edge. They 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:04.360 are still just as sketched out KG. I mean, it's 1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:08.280 it's it's it's the same show you those animals when 1:08:08.320 --> 1:08:09.720 they want to get up and go and run to 1:08:09.760 --> 1:08:12.120 the top of the mountain for no reason. They do it. 1:08:12.240 --> 1:08:15.360 They hear a rockfall, they hear a backpack slide, they 1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:20.840 for instance, for instance, they don't like it. They don't 1:08:20.880 --> 1:08:23.280 like it. It's it's really incredible. And then they have that. 1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:27.360 They have that mountain goat the thing too, where you know, 1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:30.439 a white tail hides like a white tail hide kind 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:32.519 of where they can see, but they're also comfortable hide 1:08:32.520 --> 1:08:34.599 and where they can't see much but nothing can see 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:37.760 them at times, you know, But they these things have 1:08:37.840 --> 1:08:41.360 a real knack for picking some spots to hang out. Yeah, 1:08:41.439 --> 1:08:43.639 they pick That makes it that I have a cliff 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:47.280 behind me that's vertical, so if you're on top of it, 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:49.080 you can't look down and see You're not gonna look 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.800 down and see me down here, and then I see 1:08:51.800 --> 1:08:54.040 everything in front of me. And if you're on the bottom, 1:08:54.320 --> 1:08:56.559 you know, chances are they're gonna be so high up 1:08:56.600 --> 1:08:58.880 there you can't even look up and see them. Yeah, 1:08:58.880 --> 1:09:01.120 they're good at like pick them their spots. Yeah, there's 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:02.800 for that archery hunt. There was a lot of times 1:09:02.840 --> 1:09:04.920 where I was underneath cliffs on billies, you know, and 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:07.559 you're looking straight up like I can hear them up there. 1:09:07.880 --> 1:09:11.000 They're overhanging the cliffs coming over you, and there's just 1:09:11.240 --> 1:09:15.040 no way you're able to get a shot. We had 1:09:15.160 --> 1:09:16.760 times of crawling up, Like a lot of times, you 1:09:16.800 --> 1:09:19.400 spend a lot of time going up toward a ridge 1:09:19.479 --> 1:09:21.200 or saddle or something that's gonna give you a view 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:23.920 a new country. And one day we had a few 1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:26.800 times when you get to the crest and you're like, 1:09:27.120 --> 1:09:29.840 you're prepared for the fact that you're gonna be looking 1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:33.640 at some new ground. And it's intense sun, so you 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:35.439 got a lot of shadows, there's a lot of brush, 1:09:35.520 --> 1:09:37.559 and you'd be like, here's the perfect place to pop up. 1:09:38.840 --> 1:09:42.840 I'm gonna crawl up under this juniper and use the 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:46.320 juniper as shade cover. And there's a rock and I'm 1:09:46.360 --> 1:09:50.760 gonna like belly slide in and do everything perfect. And 1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:54.840 I'm gonna slowly raise my binoculars and you do that 1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:58.680 and you meet eye to eye. Some ibex is four 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:02.559 yards away, like very aware that you're there. Yeah, yeah, 1:10:02.680 --> 1:10:05.400 you know, we were talking about it. I feel, you know, 1:10:05.520 --> 1:10:09.120 those ibex they're they're so smart and they're so cag 1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:14.280 that I feel like they they bed or reside in 1:10:14.479 --> 1:10:20.320 areas where they know they can see danger, whether that's 1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:26.160 from prior history or interactions, or that's just the natural 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:31.879 wiliness ability of these ibex to position themselves in areas 1:10:31.960 --> 1:10:36.280 where they can feel vulnerable. And that's exactly it. Every 1:10:36.320 --> 1:10:38.439 time we came into a saddle where we thought we 1:10:38.520 --> 1:10:41.240 were gonna have a great opportunity, ibricks were looking at us. 1:10:41.479 --> 1:10:43.320 I mean they had us pinned down. You know it's 1:10:43.320 --> 1:10:47.000 funny too, is we found uh, we found a deadhead, 1:10:47.320 --> 1:10:49.599 read the remain like a portion of dat. We found 1:10:49.640 --> 1:10:54.800 two horns. Um, the skull was gone, but we found 1:10:54.840 --> 1:10:57.640 two horns under a cliff. Well we kind of like 1:10:57.800 --> 1:10:59.599 there wasn't even that big, but we kind of seven 1:10:59.680 --> 1:11:04.479 growth rings. Seven growth rings. You start hunting. Ibex season 1:11:04.600 --> 1:11:09.080 start in October, they run into March. He's been alive 1:11:09.240 --> 1:11:14.360 seven years, That isn't that's a lot of data to 1:11:14.400 --> 1:11:17.000 pull from for that animal. He probably lays there. He's like, 1:11:17.080 --> 1:11:20.560 you know what, when I'm here, I always watched that 1:11:20.680 --> 1:11:24.000 spot because that's for some asshole always climbs over and 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:26.439 like they probably get a very detailed sense of like 1:11:26.640 --> 1:11:30.920 where right, like how things move. Yeah, I think because 1:11:30.960 --> 1:11:33.800 that mountain has what the what the? Because it's very 1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:36.400 there's not many ways to get around, right, it's either 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:40.280 cliffs or finding these little trails and cuts to get 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:44.080 two saddles, you know, find those little grooves in between 1:11:44.120 --> 1:11:46.240 the cliffs to make your way. And I think those 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:49.680 animals know that. I think they know most most predators 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:55.040 or others other species aren't gonna be on the cliffs. 1:11:55.360 --> 1:11:57.240 So where are you gonna be looking off the cliffs 1:11:57.880 --> 1:12:01.439 these little It's like most of places, not a lot 1:12:01.520 --> 1:12:05.800 of the places up there that you can access on foot, 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:08.519 there's one way to get there in one way to leave. 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:12.360 There's not there's not like through. There probably are somewhere, 1:12:12.400 --> 1:12:13.920 but it's it's not like a place there's a lot 1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:15.720 of like through hunting. It's like you gotta kind of 1:12:15.800 --> 1:12:19.360 go up and fronaggle your way through, and then when 1:12:19.400 --> 1:12:20.800 you go to leave, it would be like the only 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:23.280 way you're gonna leave is to do exactly that. Yeah, 1:12:23.280 --> 1:12:25.840 I mean, it doesn't make sense to to try to 1:12:25.920 --> 1:12:28.160 find an alternate way out right. You want to go 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:34.479 that mountain is so dangerous, especially when you're burning light. 1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:36.559 You want to be able to get off that mountain 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.280 safely and if you're trying to bush whack and find 1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:41.400 a potential way to get off that mountain that you 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:44.200 haven't previously taken, there's a good chance that you're gonna 1:12:44.200 --> 1:12:46.840 get cliffed out. You're gonna get put in a tough spot, 1:12:47.080 --> 1:12:48.559 and you're gonna run out of light, and you're gonna 1:12:48.560 --> 1:12:50.040 have to make the choice of either hunk or and 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:54.760 down continuing your path, are going back the way you came, 1:12:54.960 --> 1:12:57.679 which you know is a safe route, and that's always 1:12:57.760 --> 1:12:59.880 something a factory. And when you're up on that mountain, right, 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:02.280 I mean, there are numerous times where we probably could 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:04.639 have kept going. We probably could have threaded the needle 1:13:04.720 --> 1:13:07.280 and pushed it to pushed it to nighttime and walked 1:13:07.320 --> 1:13:09.280 off that mountain on the dark, in the dark. But 1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:12.559 even even at that at night, everything looks different, even 1:13:12.600 --> 1:13:15.000 if you have your track going up that mountain, everything 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:17.840 looks different. And so it's a it's safe to say 1:13:18.600 --> 1:13:21.519 you want to get off that mountain with ample light 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:24.600 to be safe about it, because the last thing you 1:13:24.680 --> 1:13:26.639 want to be doing is getting stuck in a spot 1:13:26.680 --> 1:13:28.439 where you have to make the decision am I going 1:13:28.520 --> 1:13:30.400 to stay here? Am I gonna walk back? The way 1:13:30.439 --> 1:13:32.479 I came. Because it's gonna be a lot farther. You're 1:13:32.479 --> 1:13:35.600 gonna be doing it at night. Ard I do I 1:13:35.680 --> 1:13:38.320 push forward and hope that this path I took leads 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:41.960 leads to an exit. So I looked at the harvest 1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:45.040 data that's available through the Mexico Department of Game and Fish, 1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:50.800 and there were according to that, there were no ibex 1:13:50.840 --> 1:13:53.720 harvested outside of the Florida's on the statewide over the 1:13:53.800 --> 1:13:58.559 countertag last license here, and there were two billies harvested 1:13:58.680 --> 1:14:01.200 the license here before that. So it's not a rich 1:14:01.280 --> 1:14:04.880 hunting opportunity, right. So like Jeremy saying, if you find 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:09.639 some off range, you know that's not something that happens 1:14:09.640 --> 1:14:11.400 all the time, don't tell anyone to get out of 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.280 That would be to me one of the cooler things 1:14:14.320 --> 1:14:15.840 to do. Man, if you could find one and get 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:20.040 it like that, that's badass. Uh let him let me 1:14:20.040 --> 1:14:22.120 hear with the crystal ball question. And then we're talking 1:14:22.120 --> 1:14:27.840 to Kevin Murphy about rabbits um take mountain goats. We're 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:30.080 talking about montain goats for a minute. Here's a native 1:14:30.120 --> 1:14:34.200 animal native to the continent. Right, So mountain goats are 1:14:34.280 --> 1:14:38.439 native to coastal Alaska, some of the interior ranges in 1:14:38.520 --> 1:14:44.400 south central Alaska all down through BC Okay, native to 1:14:44.520 --> 1:14:53.720 portions of Washington, portions of Oregon, native to western Montana. 1:14:54.240 --> 1:14:57.439 There's some other areas that are debated native to the I. 1:14:57.640 --> 1:15:01.760 They were historic populations in the Idahoe Handhandle, Okay, so 1:15:01.960 --> 1:15:06.559 like it's at least from the continent. Over time, motivated 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:09.559 by the same factors as they did to introduce IBEX 1:15:09.600 --> 1:15:14.960 to increase hunting opportunity, they put mountain goats um a 1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:18.880 neighboring mountain ranges like sometimes really that meaning that put 1:15:18.960 --> 1:15:21.920 them for for whatever you can't understand why, like why 1:15:21.960 --> 1:15:23.880 are they in this mountain range but not this mountain range? 1:15:24.360 --> 1:15:28.200 And people would just help him out by bumping them 1:15:28.240 --> 1:15:32.799 over a mountain range, Okay. And and now in grant 1:15:32.800 --> 1:15:38.080 Tee Town National Park, Olympic National Park, they're taking steps 1:15:38.360 --> 1:15:45.360 to bring in using public hunters, using government sharpshooters, all 1:15:45.439 --> 1:15:49.400 kinds of things. They're bringing efforts to eradicate mountain goats 1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:53.200 off of some of these mountain ranges where they weren't 1:15:53.320 --> 1:15:56.920 historically even though they were a hundred miles off in 1:15:57.000 --> 1:16:03.280 some other direction. UM that makes it seem like in 1:16:03.439 --> 1:16:05.479 my mind that made like things don't bode well for 1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:09.160 the old IBEX because you can't even make that argument 1:16:09.200 --> 1:16:13.320 for him there from another continent. Man like I feel 1:16:13.360 --> 1:16:15.599 like there's more some people a ride like your buddy 1:16:15.640 --> 1:16:17.519 KR Malcolm, love him to death, but he's always, Oh, 1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:21.720 we need more voices in the room, more stakeholder. You know, 1:16:22.640 --> 1:16:25.280 those people are not gonna be too sympathetic to the IBEX. 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:27.599 They're not gonna be like, well, you know those guys 1:16:27.640 --> 1:16:29.800 like the hunt Ums, let's keep them around. It's just 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:31.360 not going to be what their view is on it. 1:16:33.479 --> 1:16:36.840 You could picture in a year or two, or in 1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:41.800 a decade or two, someone saying they gotta go. I mean, 1:16:41.800 --> 1:16:44.360 I'm sure it's happening right now, but are they what 1:16:44.479 --> 1:16:47.640 are they hurting? Desert big horns big carn't habitat. So 1:16:47.720 --> 1:16:50.280 there there are big horns in the Florida, not in 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:54.040 the Floridas. And I'll be the first to say that 1:16:54.160 --> 1:16:57.240 I am stepping out of my zone right now, and 1:16:57.479 --> 1:17:03.400 so the conflict would be native big horn sheep habitat 1:17:03.600 --> 1:17:06.160 right similar and correct me if I'm wrong to to 1:17:06.280 --> 1:17:09.519 the Mountain gold right that in Grand Tea ton so 1:17:10.040 --> 1:17:12.800 An Olympic National Park. I think it's like a vegetation 1:17:12.920 --> 1:17:16.880 they're using. It's a vegetation issue in Grand Teaton. It 1:17:17.160 --> 1:17:22.880 is Rocky Mountain Big Horn conflict. But one might look 1:17:23.080 --> 1:17:25.840 and feel that those are proxy arguments and it's more 1:17:25.920 --> 1:17:31.200 of an argument about the the kind of audacity of 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:34.720 moving non native species in and then you that is 1:17:34.800 --> 1:17:37.559 offensive to someone and they'll look and be like, well, 1:17:37.600 --> 1:17:39.320 what's the big deal, And then you go like, oh, 1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:42.600 well this, yeah, I mean, and and it's it's like 1:17:42.680 --> 1:17:46.760 a proxy fight. My my personal thought is is you know, 1:17:46.960 --> 1:17:50.400 back in the seventies when they were having that that discussion, 1:17:50.560 --> 1:17:53.320 there was you know, that was the time too to really, 1:17:53.600 --> 1:17:57.960 you know, have the talk about is this the right 1:17:58.080 --> 1:18:01.080 thing to do or should we be focusing our resources 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:06.000 and attention into reintroducing native native faunt into the landscape. Right, 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:08.360 so let's get big horn sheep back in there. But 1:18:08.479 --> 1:18:10.599 that wasn't the case. We got We got to deal 1:18:10.680 --> 1:18:12.160 with what we got to deal with now, right, And 1:18:12.240 --> 1:18:14.839 the fact is that Persian ibex are on that mountain 1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:18.640 and according to from what I know from our uh 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:22.920 you know, biologists and listening to the Department is the 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:28.000 IBEX and the big Horn sheep. There are no there's 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:32.800 there aren't any potential issues there as far as you know, 1:18:32.920 --> 1:18:37.920 disease transmission, as far as UH complicating reintroduction efforts of 1:18:37.960 --> 1:18:42.360 big horn sheep. There's been considerable efforts to reintroduce desert 1:18:42.400 --> 1:18:45.080 big horn sheep and some of the surrounding mountain ranges 1:18:45.560 --> 1:18:50.120 and they've been very successful. And in doing so, the 1:18:50.280 --> 1:18:54.840 Game and Phish Agency has has and and and the 1:18:54.920 --> 1:18:58.800 public as well have have warmed up and accepted the 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:02.880 IBEX per se to call that mountain range home. Um. 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:06.960 I personally like IBEX. I personally like the opportunity to 1:19:07.000 --> 1:19:09.600 go chase IBEX. Now, if you put me in the 1:19:09.720 --> 1:19:13.920 room back in the seventies, I would have advocated for 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.439 big horn sheep to be on that mountain And they 1:19:16.479 --> 1:19:19.479 were there, they were, they were there before. I don't 1:19:19.479 --> 1:19:22.599 know that. I think like it wasn't everything here desert 1:19:22.640 --> 1:19:26.160 big horn Well, you would think, yeah, I mean I 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:29.000 would say that's probably a safe assumption. But I don't 1:19:29.040 --> 1:19:31.840 know entirely if if the Florida Mountain Range was was 1:19:31.960 --> 1:19:34.640 home to the desert big horn sheep. When we we 1:19:34.760 --> 1:19:37.880 were having a very similar conversation about nil Gui and 1:19:38.240 --> 1:19:43.559 uh that live in South Texas, and I used someone's 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:47.000 quote where someone described them as being an honorary native, 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:48.599 And boy did I get a lot of feedback from 1:19:48.640 --> 1:19:56.880 biologists about calling them an honorary native, including me. Yeah, yeah, 1:19:57.840 --> 1:20:00.200 that's enough of that. One of my favorite stories out 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.240 about you because I said I said whatever I said 1:20:03.280 --> 1:20:09.600 about using that term honorary native, and then somebody said like, basically, 1:20:09.960 --> 1:20:12.600 you're in a hole. Steve Ronella would never want to 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:20.240 hang out with you. Um, yeah, I guess, I guess. 1:20:20.280 --> 1:20:22.439 Before we move on move on to the rabbit piece, 1:20:22.439 --> 1:20:25.800 the last thing I would say about hunting Ibex is, 1:20:26.800 --> 1:20:30.000 you know, next to making sure you're careful and getting 1:20:30.040 --> 1:20:34.639 up that mountain safely and back down safely, is it's 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:39.360 it's frustrating, right to say the least Ibex hunting is frustrating. 1:20:39.760 --> 1:20:43.320 And the reason I say that is you you bust 1:20:43.360 --> 1:20:47.599 your tail every day you're climbing thousand you know, plus 1:20:47.880 --> 1:20:53.960 vertical feet. Damn, you're straight up hands feet are always 1:20:54.040 --> 1:20:56.320 usually on a rock, if not on a rock or 1:20:56.360 --> 1:21:01.240 getting poked by a cactus. And it is just a 1:21:01.560 --> 1:21:04.360 difficult mountain to hunt. And so when you have an 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:09.040 opportunity to lay your cross hairs on an ibex, draw 1:21:09.160 --> 1:21:11.880 your bow back and lay that hundred yard pin on 1:21:11.920 --> 1:21:16.479 an ibex, you have to you have to factor in 1:21:16.600 --> 1:21:19.080 other factors that you usually don't in other hunts, right, 1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:21.840 and the biggest one is am I going to be 1:21:21.880 --> 1:21:24.360 able to recover that animal? You know? These animals are 1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:28.960 standing on cliffs there in sketchy places, and you know 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:34.639 it's it happens more times than not where hunters see 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:37.880 that opportunity as oh, here's an animal, I can harvest it, 1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:40.640 and they take that shot only to find out that 1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:44.240 they cannot recover that animal. Yeah, we had an opportunity 1:21:44.240 --> 1:21:48.439 you almost like an opera. Yeah, yeah, we we had 1:21:48.520 --> 1:21:52.720 situations whereas we're looking at animals, um that one could 1:21:52.760 --> 1:21:54.400 have shot at for sure, and being like, you're just 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:59.320 not gonna get to it, despite Dirtmith guaranteeing I can 1:21:59.360 --> 1:22:01.280 get there. You would get there with a rope and 1:22:01.280 --> 1:22:07.519 a harness guaranteeing. Personally looking at Garrett like, yeah, but 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:09.680 that's unless you got a helicop. Unless you're putting a 1:22:09.720 --> 1:22:12.200 helicopter in the mix, I don't buy it. I'm gonna 1:22:12.200 --> 1:22:14.280 watch it from here is Jeremy, you were pointing out 1:22:14.360 --> 1:22:16.519 spots on the mountain where they were still ropes hanging 1:22:17.280 --> 1:22:21.280 from cliffs. Absolutely. So you know, folks like I mentioned, 1:22:21.600 --> 1:22:24.400 hit ibex. They go die in these precarious areas on 1:22:24.479 --> 1:22:28.040 the top of a cliff, and hunters will actually hire 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:32.320 rock climbers, you know, to go up there and climb 1:22:32.439 --> 1:22:34.840 up to the top and repel their their goat down 1:22:35.000 --> 1:22:37.639 for them. And you know, sometimes they bring their ropes down, 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:40.479 sometimes they don't. And so it's not uncommon to as 1:22:40.520 --> 1:22:44.240 your glass in these you know, nasty cliffs, see these 1:22:44.360 --> 1:22:47.840 ropes tethered and just hanging down to the bottom. Um 1:22:48.040 --> 1:22:50.840 you just know someone scaled up there to to lower 1:22:50.880 --> 1:22:53.479 an ibex down. Yeah. Rick Smith read an article about 1:22:53.520 --> 1:22:58.599 some guy that killed a billy thirty yards and then 1:22:58.720 --> 1:23:01.479 hired climbers to go find into for him. That that's 1:23:01.520 --> 1:23:06.200 the problem, right, is like that's I'm just not interested 1:23:06.280 --> 1:23:09.400 in the working part, I mean, And that's like that's 1:23:09.400 --> 1:23:12.000 a hard conversation to have, right when you're when you're 1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:16.040 a glass and an ibex and it's well within shooting 1:23:16.120 --> 1:23:20.920 distance and you say, I don't think you should take 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:22.679 that shot. I don't. I don't think we can recover 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:26.000 that animal. That's that's a hard concept to grasp. And 1:23:26.080 --> 1:23:27.800 you just busted your tail to get up to that 1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:32.519 that saddle to have that opportunity, just to come to 1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:35.240 find out that sure you can shoot that animal and 1:23:35.280 --> 1:23:40.040 it's gonna fallot to the bottom. Is that even worth it? 1:23:40.360 --> 1:23:42.200 I mean that animal is gonna be so beat up, 1:23:42.320 --> 1:23:44.599 there's not even any meat to recover. Yeah, the one 1:23:44.680 --> 1:23:50.680 we fellah if that scrambled its guts real good, but 1:23:50.800 --> 1:23:53.639 the meat unscathed. But I mean it's like stomach contents 1:23:53.680 --> 1:23:57.439 were it was pretty beat up, like like it's ards 1:23:57.640 --> 1:24:01.719 had been homogenized. You couldn't tell. Yeah, it was just everything, 1:24:02.800 --> 1:24:07.679 everything was everything and that and you know that that billy, 1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:12.400 that billy fell like you said, maybe thirty ft landed 1:24:12.439 --> 1:24:16.120 and vegetation, which was fortunate, and that landed right on 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:18.280 a yuka, right on a yuka, a little bit of 1:24:18.320 --> 1:24:21.439 a cushion and worked out perfectly. You know, we saw 1:24:21.640 --> 1:24:24.280 right where it went in. We and to the point 1:24:24.360 --> 1:24:27.320 where I'm saying is you know, making sure you can 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:29.800 recover an ibex is we were looking at that, but 1:24:29.960 --> 1:24:33.559 you know where's that when when you take that shot, 1:24:34.160 --> 1:24:36.519 where's the likelihood of that animal gonna go? And we 1:24:36.640 --> 1:24:39.080 were certain that if you took that shot, we're gonna 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:41.720 be able to recover that animal. The two yeah, two 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:44.800 instances where like to just to give people an idea 1:24:44.800 --> 1:24:47.600 what we're talking about. There's one instance where there was 1:24:47.640 --> 1:24:50.320 a shoot that we could pretty much picture get into 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:53.160 the shoot, and it was in the shoot, but if 1:24:53.200 --> 1:24:55.519 you file the shoot up, it was like, man, you 1:24:55.560 --> 1:24:59.200 could probably could pick your way up that shoot, but 1:24:59.320 --> 1:25:03.800 there's a big Raiders of the lost Are boulder. Then 1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:06.320 it at some point in time falling off the mountain, 1:25:06.520 --> 1:25:10.439 ran down the shooting and got wedged in the shoot. 1:25:10.600 --> 1:25:15.040 I mean it's bulls like ft high crammed in there. 1:25:16.720 --> 1:25:18.840 And I was like, man, you could if you can, 1:25:19.040 --> 1:25:20.680 and it seems like you can. I'm not sure get 1:25:20.760 --> 1:25:22.600 up the shoot, You're sure ship not getting past that 1:25:22.680 --> 1:25:30.120 boulder guaranteed to guaranteed with like with a harness, his 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:32.880 harness and his sadd he guaranteed he would be able 1:25:32.880 --> 1:25:35.200 to retrieve it. And the more we looked at that 1:25:35.439 --> 1:25:37.800 from more angles, I was really wished we could have 1:25:38.360 --> 1:25:41.320 taken him up on his back. The other one, we're 1:25:41.360 --> 1:25:45.120 looking at a we're looking at ibex and you couldn't 1:25:45.120 --> 1:25:47.760 really picture where it would quit falling, but you like, 1:25:47.960 --> 1:25:50.040 how far go, but it would wind up in the shoot, 1:25:50.439 --> 1:25:51.720 and I was like, oh, shoot, you can definitely go 1:25:51.840 --> 1:25:54.880 up that shoot. But then I raised myself up to 1:25:55.120 --> 1:25:57.519 follow the shoot down more and realized that the shoot 1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:00.240 just ends at a cliff. But had I not done 1:26:00.280 --> 1:26:01.720 that In my head, I was like the easiest thing 1:26:01.720 --> 1:26:03.160 in the world, And there's no way to come in 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:05.639 from the sides into that shoot. I shouldn't say no way, 1:26:06.320 --> 1:26:09.160 but you weren't. And then it was far enough away 1:26:09.520 --> 1:26:11.679 that once you shot and it fell from it's cliff, 1:26:12.040 --> 1:26:15.400 it was gonna vanish into the brush, and so you'd 1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:17.800 have to finagle your way over there, which would have 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:21.760 been an hour's long job, and then be like, I 1:26:21.800 --> 1:26:25.960 don't know, it's somewhere in the five yard expanse from 1:26:26.040 --> 1:26:28.479 that cliff down to here in this brushy ass SHOOTE. 1:26:30.520 --> 1:26:34.640 You're not gonna blood trail it. You might find like 1:26:34.760 --> 1:26:36.800 tufts of hair stuck on stuff here and there, you know, 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:38.240 I mean like, like, how do you in there? The 1:26:38.280 --> 1:26:42.479 size of a labrador? Yeah, I mean so small that 1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:44.880 when we went to we wanted, you know, like when 1:26:44.920 --> 1:26:47.320 you retrieve a body carcass, you want to move it 1:26:47.400 --> 1:26:50.240 somewhere nice to gut it. I grabbed its back foot 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:53.400 in my hand and then bent it up and grabbed 1:26:53.439 --> 1:26:56.080 its horn in the same hand and lifted it up 1:26:56.120 --> 1:26:58.519 and carried it down and said it where I wanted it. Yeah, 1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:02.320 it was. It was. It was like just passing, passing 1:27:02.360 --> 1:27:04.600 the billy down to our tour spot where we can 1:27:06.200 --> 1:27:08.839 I mean, and even packing it out was was pretty interesting. 1:27:08.920 --> 1:27:11.280 You know, if there's if there's a if there's an 1:27:11.320 --> 1:27:14.360 animal to pack out whole and leave it fully intact, 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:17.920 it'd be an ibex. We put the whole thing. The 1:27:18.120 --> 1:27:22.320 whole thing fit in my backpack and game bag, like 1:27:22.439 --> 1:27:24.200 not not a large game bag that you would fit 1:27:24.240 --> 1:27:29.080 an out quarter in a small game bag like deer 1:27:29.200 --> 1:27:33.080 quarter game bag. We split a whole ibex into it, 1:27:34.000 --> 1:27:38.439 took the hooves up to the head and just man, yeah, 1:27:38.920 --> 1:27:43.720 it was fun. It was. It was brutal. Uh, I 1:27:43.760 --> 1:27:47.960 need to add their mike, No, mike was my glass 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:52.000 and buddy. Meanwhile we are down at the bottom pouring 1:27:52.160 --> 1:27:55.800 coal to it, which which is important, right, like to 1:27:55.960 --> 1:28:01.040 say it again, it or to add to the whole experience. 1:28:01.120 --> 1:28:03.599 It's like having a team and having people that can 1:28:04.880 --> 1:28:07.880 have eyes on the mountain for you and say, you know, 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:11.759 Ibex or the Ibex are still there as you're hiking 1:28:11.840 --> 1:28:14.439 up and down these hills and through these crooks and crannies. 1:28:14.479 --> 1:28:18.760 It's it helps in it. It's really beneficial to have 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.160 someone with some eyes on on the mountain, just to 1:28:21.240 --> 1:28:23.240 have people, I mean just even in the morning, just 1:28:23.320 --> 1:28:26.080 to try to find something I had heard from a 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:28.240 guy that was saying in the earlier season there was 1:28:28.240 --> 1:28:31.320 a lot of people not finding any at all, which 1:28:31.400 --> 1:28:35.599 I could very easily picture, yeah, easily, but I got fortunate. 1:28:45.720 --> 1:28:49.519 All right, Kevin Murphy, you ready, I'm ready. I'm ready. 1:28:50.080 --> 1:28:52.639 When we were this is this is called the Saga 1:28:52.640 --> 1:28:56.519 of Kevin Murphy, the Saga of Kevin Murphy's Beagles. When 1:28:56.640 --> 1:29:01.200 we were on orcs Is, June and Jeremy and Mike 1:29:01.240 --> 1:29:04.080 were there. Um, I was kind of flabber gassed by 1:29:04.120 --> 1:29:07.880 the number of rabbits running around, and we talked a 1:29:07.960 --> 1:29:13.200 bunch about why don't people have beagles, beagles oh the desert, 1:29:13.240 --> 1:29:16.120 and how many rabbits you'd kill with your beagles because 1:29:16.120 --> 1:29:19.200 they're all over the down place, and I started getting 1:29:19.240 --> 1:29:21.760 Kevin interested in how he ought to come out and 1:29:21.840 --> 1:29:24.800 bring his high test rabbits, his high test beagles out 1:29:24.840 --> 1:29:30.160 here and run rabbits. How'd that go, Kevin? Well, it 1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:34.000 was an experience, you know. When you you asked me 1:29:34.040 --> 1:29:36.960 about that, it says, well, I don't know for sure, 1:29:37.560 --> 1:29:39.960 I said. We did take a trip two years ago 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:44.000 down to North Carolina to hunt some marsh rabbits with 1:29:44.240 --> 1:29:48.000 two of my friends that are bagle manias, that's what 1:29:48.160 --> 1:29:52.120 they live. Forward getting on chat groups talking about rabbit hunting, 1:29:52.560 --> 1:29:55.599 and we packed up and went to what's your guy's 1:29:55.640 --> 1:29:58.160 favorite chat group in the rabbit hunt community. He now, 1:29:58.439 --> 1:30:00.400 I don't stay connected like that, so I don't know. 1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:06.160 I'll find out for you. So I don't know. But um, 1:30:06.560 --> 1:30:12.280 we loaded up, went to North Carolina and Sandy Soul 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:15.439 but moist down there, and so we would get after 1:30:15.760 --> 1:30:18.160 some rabbits and I was running like four of my 1:30:18.320 --> 1:30:20.479 dogs and they had probably before. So I had twelve 1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:23.320 beagles out there trying to run some rabbits and we 1:30:23.520 --> 1:30:26.800 ended up killing just a few. And then like in 1:30:26.920 --> 1:30:29.479 the third day, was sitting around the couch just kind 1:30:29.479 --> 1:30:32.000 of like we are now talking, and they said, well, 1:30:32.040 --> 1:30:34.280 else is You know, we read a lot about this, 1:30:34.520 --> 1:30:37.280 that dogs coming from up north and going down there 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:39.560 to run. We had lots of issues and lots of 1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:42.560 problems running the rabbits. You know, typically you jump a 1:30:42.640 --> 1:30:45.639 rabbit up and it's gonna if you just post up there, 1:30:45.760 --> 1:30:49.400 be quiet, look at the landscape in the terrain, he's 1:30:49.400 --> 1:30:53.960 gonna make a circle around a huge circle. Yes, some 1:30:54.280 --> 1:30:56.040 some I mean this. When I was with you hunting 1:30:56.080 --> 1:30:58.360 swamp rabbits, I mean they'd go so far you can't 1:30:58.360 --> 1:31:00.600 you hear the damn dogs anymore. Now, swamp will go 1:31:00.720 --> 1:31:05.680 further than a regular cotton tail. But sometimes initially they 1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:09.040 will go out and they'll come back in just one time. 1:31:09.479 --> 1:31:11.640 And then the next time they go out of the 1:31:11.720 --> 1:31:15.160 country I mean out of hearing, out of here. And 1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:17.639 then when they start coming back. And I didn't learn 1:31:17.720 --> 1:31:20.639 this too, uh, I got a garment astro, they'll start 1:31:20.920 --> 1:31:23.960 they won't make us just a continuous circle. It's a spiral, 1:31:24.680 --> 1:31:29.800 little short circles in there. And you remember when we're 1:31:29.960 --> 1:31:33.360 down on the band hunting, I was looking at my 1:31:33.479 --> 1:31:36.759 GPS and the dogs are running and running and running. 1:31:37.240 --> 1:31:38.640 But never running back to us. And I told you 1:31:38.680 --> 1:31:40.120 since we're gonna have to go after that one. I 1:31:40.160 --> 1:31:42.040 don't know if you remember that or not, because I said, 1:31:42.080 --> 1:31:44.080 this is what he's doing, and I had learned that 1:31:44.520 --> 1:31:47.679 hunting him before that. They start making these small spiral 1:31:47.760 --> 1:31:49.479 circles and you just have to go in there and 1:31:49.560 --> 1:31:54.679 try to figure out. Now, when we hunt rabbits snowshoe 1:31:54.720 --> 1:31:59.439 hair on Drummond Island, Uh, to kill one snowshoe hair, 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:01.680 you to lead the dogs have to run four to 1:32:01.800 --> 1:32:08.640 six miles. So and that's the like it's it's not 1:32:08.760 --> 1:32:12.400 that the dogs are running the rabbit in a circle intentionally, 1:32:12.600 --> 1:32:15.080 It's like the rabbit is going in a circle. He 1:32:15.160 --> 1:32:18.040 doesn't want to leave his familiar territory. Yes, correct, that's 1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:20.280 what I think. So when we go to Drummond a 1:32:20.360 --> 1:32:24.400 hunt up there to look at the GPS and figure so, well, 1:32:24.439 --> 1:32:27.240 that's rabbit has crossed like three times because a snowshoe 1:32:27.800 --> 1:32:30.240 he'll run in the shade in the dark. And I 1:32:30.320 --> 1:32:32.960 didn't realize that. The first time I hunted those was 1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:36.760 up around Benedicta, Maine. And we get out there in 1:32:36.840 --> 1:32:39.240 that fur forest and try to look for him and like, man, 1:32:39.320 --> 1:32:41.160 I can't you know, you just got to get right 1:32:41.240 --> 1:32:43.439 on top of him, so your shooting lane is reduced 1:32:43.800 --> 1:32:46.479 very small. Um, I didn't really know what I was 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:51.720 doing up there. We hired a guide, and um we 1:32:51.880 --> 1:32:54.599 ended up killing seven or eight. A little bit different 1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:57.639 condition than than Drummond. You said you've been on Drummond 1:32:57.640 --> 1:33:00.200 for it's a glaciated We used to hunt, know whats 1:33:00.280 --> 1:33:04.080 your hair is? They're just uh still hunting them. Which, man, 1:33:04.240 --> 1:33:05.800 you can spend a lot of time. You can spend 1:33:05.800 --> 1:33:08.360 a lot of time on great Sign and not kill ship. 1:33:09.439 --> 1:33:12.639 But you look at your GPS and you say, well, 1:33:12.680 --> 1:33:15.400 this this hair has come through this little trail out 1:33:15.439 --> 1:33:18.439 here like three times, maybe four. I'm gonna go down 1:33:18.479 --> 1:33:20.680 there and get set up and maybe just have a 1:33:22.640 --> 1:33:25.320 yard shot. No further than that is a long ways 1:33:25.320 --> 1:33:27.640 when you're in that forest like that, and then all 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:31.000 of a sudden he crosses fifty yards down there, he 1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:34.040 heard you or saw you. You weren't you weren't still enough. 1:33:34.600 --> 1:33:37.360 But you know, you can completely run a dog down 1:33:37.439 --> 1:33:40.560 if you're not careful. I know the second morning that 1:33:40.640 --> 1:33:43.760 we were there, I've got a faster dog. Lucy, the 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:46.080 little tricolor blue tich beak when she's getting some age 1:33:46.120 --> 1:33:48.439 on her now. So I turned her loose that that 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:51.040 morning and we had the best races of the day. 1:33:51.640 --> 1:33:53.880 But by one o'clock she had shut down and we 1:33:54.040 --> 1:33:56.400 carried her out in the back of our game bag. 1:33:56.720 --> 1:34:00.320 That thing completely recovered, but that, yeah, she was of stuff. 1:34:00.400 --> 1:34:02.000 She just ran and that's what a beagle to do. 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:05.439 They just run and run and run until they got 1:34:05.520 --> 1:34:08.639 nothing left in them. So we we came up here. 1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:10.519 You know, we had the discussion. I says, I don't 1:34:10.560 --> 1:34:12.439 know how my dogs are gonna do in this dried 1:34:12.640 --> 1:34:16.479 desert terrain. And I said, I'm a little bit concerned 1:34:16.520 --> 1:34:21.639 about what do you think, Like, give me the North 1:34:21.720 --> 1:34:24.840 Carolina example, what do you think the problem was for 1:34:24.920 --> 1:34:27.880 the beagle? You know, I don't know. I don't know 1:34:27.920 --> 1:34:30.719 if it's the soul down there, that sandy saul because 1:34:30.760 --> 1:34:33.160 it was damp. You know, we're hunting these marsh rabbits, 1:34:33.479 --> 1:34:37.760 which were very similar to the swamp rabbit, but a 1:34:37.800 --> 1:34:41.320 little bit smaller, not near as big. They would leave 1:34:41.360 --> 1:34:44.720 their sign latrine stumps and logs. So we saw that 1:34:44.840 --> 1:34:48.080 sign in there, But I do not know what the 1:34:48.160 --> 1:34:51.000 trouble was down there. I don't know why the beagles could. 1:34:51.040 --> 1:34:55.680 They had remarked that people, yes, from the rabbit dog 1:34:55.800 --> 1:34:58.200 chat groups, remark that they had taken their dogs in 1:34:58.280 --> 1:35:01.160 there and they had trouble in the rabbits in that 1:35:01.360 --> 1:35:04.400 moist sandy. But are there dudes down in North Carolina, 1:35:04.479 --> 1:35:07.360 the half beagles that do good? I'm sure there is. 1:35:07.640 --> 1:35:11.599 You know, Um, I went uh black bear hunting down 1:35:11.640 --> 1:35:14.640 there one year with the with the bear guys, and 1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:18.559 their dogs could just pound those bears. But I mean 1:35:18.640 --> 1:35:22.639 they all lived down there and they were acclimated to them. Yes, 1:35:22.760 --> 1:35:26.400 so you know, and it sometimes it is hard to 1:35:26.640 --> 1:35:28.600 to pack a dog up and like we did. We 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:31.840 we drove two days twelve miles to get here and 1:35:31.920 --> 1:35:34.160 then open up the dog box and say, go run 1:35:34.240 --> 1:35:38.000 me a rabbit. You know, even myself. After four or 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:41.320 five days, I feel better. I see more out there. 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:44.160 I learned more, you know, what these rabbits are doing. 1:35:44.720 --> 1:35:46.439 And it just takes a while. Maybe if I spent 1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:48.320 two or three weeks here or whatever, maybe they could 1:35:48.320 --> 1:35:50.120 pick it up. I don't know. It is so dry. 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:52.640 I mean, this this air here is like some kind 1:35:52.680 --> 1:35:56.559 of ozone generator. I mean, I cannot believe just smelling fresh. 1:35:57.040 --> 1:35:59.840 You know, the rabbits have no smell to them. Uh, 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:05.320 it's just a different landscape and and you know, uh atmosphere. 1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:08.679 What is the if you're in a layout, the best 1:36:09.160 --> 1:36:12.960 ground conditions for a beagle to smell a rabbit, it 1:36:13.040 --> 1:36:17.639 would be what snow grass uh on a melting snow, 1:36:18.000 --> 1:36:21.759 melting snow out For my days of running bobcats with dogs, 1:36:23.080 --> 1:36:25.280 not a falling snow or a frozen snow, but a 1:36:25.360 --> 1:36:29.280 melting snow. It seems that is the ideal conditions sticky 1:36:29.360 --> 1:36:32.479 for us. Yeah, yeah, that it's releasing something or whatever. 1:36:32.600 --> 1:36:35.960 But they can really run on a melted snowe or 1:36:36.080 --> 1:36:40.479 damp and wet not to to to uh wet. But 1:36:40.960 --> 1:36:43.360 you know a lot of us dog people there, when 1:36:43.680 --> 1:36:45.320 you let the dogs out in the morning, they go 1:36:45.400 --> 1:36:47.080 over there and take a crap and you smell that. 1:36:47.479 --> 1:36:50.240 It's like read in your face, tight, that's gonna be 1:36:50.280 --> 1:36:52.280 a good morning to hunt. I don't know if that 1:36:52.400 --> 1:36:54.679 scent is just laying you know, low on the ground 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:58.439 and not not rising up. But so you're saying, if 1:36:58.479 --> 1:37:00.880 your dog goes out and takes a growl in the yard, 1:37:01.040 --> 1:37:03.320 and you could smell it real good, which just like 1:37:03.400 --> 1:37:05.320 it smells right in your face. Yes, that's good. You 1:37:05.360 --> 1:37:10.240 know it's a good huh, because the smell is gonna 1:37:10.240 --> 1:37:13.000 be sticking around. That's the only thing that you know 1:37:13.760 --> 1:37:18.280 he's up for me. That's good. That's that's an astute observation. 1:37:18.439 --> 1:37:22.720 Like you know, I will be sixty two in September. 1:37:22.840 --> 1:37:25.600 So I have been following dogs probably since I was 1:37:25.920 --> 1:37:29.000 you know, seven eight years out and trying to put 1:37:29.600 --> 1:37:32.599 you know, what I see together. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes 1:37:32.640 --> 1:37:36.920 I'm wrong, but just smells like crap, it's gonna be 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:41.360 a good day when the winds from the south blows. Debait. 1:37:41.600 --> 1:37:43.519 You gotta make up one of those things, man, I'll 1:37:43.560 --> 1:37:46.200 be working on that. I'll be working on that. So 1:37:46.640 --> 1:37:51.439 here it's like very definitely not melting snow. It's dry, 1:37:52.439 --> 1:37:58.680 dry gravel and with a lot of rabbits, lots of 1:37:58.760 --> 1:38:02.280 rabbits and just trimmendous amount of rabbit sign you know, 1:38:02.439 --> 1:38:06.760 everywhere you look, you see because nothing decomposes here man, Right, 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:10.360 it's like you're looking at three year old rabbit sh 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:14.920 like like what what would happen? Do it? It's like 1:38:15.000 --> 1:38:17.679 you lay it out on the ground, zero moisture, laying 1:38:17.760 --> 1:38:20.519 on gravel. It's like every rabbit turd that's ever hit 1:38:20.560 --> 1:38:25.559 the ground here is still laying here. Probably, I don't 1:38:25.560 --> 1:38:28.640 think I'm not gonna argue with Yeah, I noticed that. 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:34.080 I don't think anything happens to it like that. But 1:38:34.439 --> 1:38:36.040 some of that rabbit ship we're looking at could have 1:38:36.080 --> 1:38:38.320 been two years old. We need to I wish you 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:41.560 could radio carbon date and it wasn't as expensive. We 1:38:41.600 --> 1:38:43.840 can find out how, but it doesn't the reasons that 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:45.920 wouldn't work, But something like that would be interesting. I 1:38:46.080 --> 1:38:48.400 think that you're looking at a you're looking at a 1:38:48.479 --> 1:38:52.760 great history of rabbit droppings. You know, a rabbit is 1:38:52.760 --> 1:38:55.160 a critter, if I get the scientific term for that, 1:38:55.200 --> 1:38:57.839 could eat its own waste. And you'll see that sometimes 1:38:58.040 --> 1:39:02.760 it's a capri fab Okay, Mike rule capage, you know 1:39:03.320 --> 1:39:05.400 where he's in the wildlife business or something like that. 1:39:05.680 --> 1:39:12.760 Is that what he's saying. You can picture Capropagi eats poop. Yeah, 1:39:12.840 --> 1:39:15.200 but they like poop. You know, you say something that 1:39:15.240 --> 1:39:17.760 are really green, and then you see something back home 1:39:17.960 --> 1:39:19.400 this way it goes. You know, you see something really 1:39:19.479 --> 1:39:22.120 green and then some that are very light color and 1:39:22.280 --> 1:39:24.760 just the same. Well, that is one he's probably eating 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:27.960 because everything broughts back home. You know, we've got fifty 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:30.200 inches of rain per year. I looked up here and 1:39:30.280 --> 1:39:34.639 instead of landing, and then y'all said, that's kind of high. 1:39:35.320 --> 1:39:36.800 You know what it is where my fish check is. 1:39:38.520 --> 1:39:44.559 Probably she're up there like sixty hundred and sixty nine 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:56.040 thirteen feet of rain. Wait, no place for a clothes long. 1:39:56.960 --> 1:40:01.519 It's like fifteen years worth here. So I'm seeing this 1:40:02.640 --> 1:40:06.080 rabbit peels droppings out there, you know, just everywhere you 1:40:06.200 --> 1:40:11.840 look in some places. And Jeremy gave me a week. 1:40:11.920 --> 1:40:15.200 We arrived here and on Sunday afternoon we went hunt. 1:40:15.200 --> 1:40:17.960 He shared three on X hunt points with me. He says, 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:21.760 this would be a good location here, here, and here. 1:40:22.240 --> 1:40:25.800 So we hit it out with one and we jumped 1:40:25.880 --> 1:40:28.519 a bunch of rabbits in there, and we had the dogs. Um, 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:31.840 they were getting the mesquite thorns in them, and and 1:40:31.920 --> 1:40:34.320 they may have like a little mesquite branch, you know, 1:40:34.760 --> 1:40:37.000 three or four inches long. You know, it's sticking out 1:40:37.040 --> 1:40:39.000 on both sides of the po and they keep hobbling 1:40:39.760 --> 1:40:42.240 with it. You know, I've got a bird dog. It 1:40:42.360 --> 1:40:44.320 was raised out west and she gets a thorn in 1:40:44.360 --> 1:40:46.880 her she just stops and pulls it out. You know. 1:40:47.720 --> 1:40:49.639 We had the discussion and I was saying, I don't 1:40:49.640 --> 1:40:51.599 know how my baggers are gonna do around all these 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:55.320 cactus and thorns. And then you says, people bird hunt 1:40:55.360 --> 1:40:58.600 with their dogs here all the time. I got to 1:40:58.680 --> 1:41:01.720 think him, Bill, he's right about that. But I took 1:41:01.760 --> 1:41:05.200 the beagles out here, and you know, we spent They 1:41:05.240 --> 1:41:07.000 didn't get as many as what I thought they would get, 1:41:07.120 --> 1:41:08.880 but when they got one, they never you had to 1:41:09.439 --> 1:41:11.559 actually pick them up, you know, and pull it out. 1:41:11.640 --> 1:41:13.400 And sometimes it would just be a single thorn, and 1:41:13.479 --> 1:41:15.560 then sometimes it would be like a part of a 1:41:15.640 --> 1:41:18.840 branch they had they hadn't. They wouldn't even look at trying. 1:41:18.880 --> 1:41:22.160 They just kept on, you know, hobbling in trudging through that. 1:41:22.960 --> 1:41:25.360 So we went that afternoon. They would get after a 1:41:25.439 --> 1:41:28.840 rabbit and in the grassy parts where there's some vegetations, 1:41:28.920 --> 1:41:32.280 they could smell it good, and they jumped some and 1:41:32.360 --> 1:41:34.080 they run them till they got to the sand and 1:41:34.120 --> 1:41:36.360 the gravel, and after that they just could not smell 1:41:36.400 --> 1:41:38.160 them in off and you'd go and put their nose 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:41.080 in where it was I saw one. I saw him 1:41:41.160 --> 1:41:43.880 jump up one and take and go down this shoot there, 1:41:44.240 --> 1:41:46.120 and I called him, I give them my my rabbit. 1:41:46.200 --> 1:41:50.120 Call hell. You know. They all come running over there 1:41:50.160 --> 1:41:53.240 and put them and it's like nothing, not even a 1:41:53.360 --> 1:41:56.640 tail wag or anything. They just could not smell it. 1:41:57.120 --> 1:41:59.679 A buddy mine who's a houndsman, who's a lion hunter. 1:42:01.120 --> 1:42:03.560 I brought this up to him ahead of time. And 1:42:03.600 --> 1:42:06.320 I'm sure you talked to plenty of people too, but um, 1:42:07.960 --> 1:42:09.679 I brought him what we were fixing to do, because 1:42:09.720 --> 1:42:11.280 he used to be a beagle man too, but he's 1:42:11.320 --> 1:42:14.759 now a lion houndsman. Uh. He hunts bobcats and lions, 1:42:16.120 --> 1:42:21.640 and he would he he didn't know, but he was 1:42:21.680 --> 1:42:24.840 more thinking about the acclamation. He wasn't like, did it 1:42:24.920 --> 1:42:27.320 would work or wouldn't work. It was just that what 1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:31.360 are they accustomed to? And what he pointed out was, um, 1:42:32.120 --> 1:42:35.800 if you have lion hounds in the north and you 1:42:35.960 --> 1:42:41.120 run lions in the snow, okay, uh, And then he's 1:42:41.160 --> 1:42:43.760 seen where those dogs have gone down to try to 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:49.280 hunt dry conditions and they just can't do it. But meanwhile, 1:42:49.360 --> 1:42:52.639 you have the exact same dogs, like exact same breeds 1:42:52.720 --> 1:42:58.000 and lines um not lions, but the same breeding lines 1:42:58.080 --> 1:43:02.599 of dogs that are beard in those conditions, and they 1:43:02.680 --> 1:43:05.160 excel in them. And so he thinks it's just a 1:43:05.240 --> 1:43:07.040 matter of it's not that it can't be done. It's 1:43:07.080 --> 1:43:08.720 just a matter of like his skill set is is 1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:12.160 not adapted to this, and that over time they would 1:43:12.200 --> 1:43:14.720 start to piece it together. But you're just asking too 1:43:14.840 --> 1:43:17.160 much of them. I agree with you on that. It's 1:43:17.200 --> 1:43:20.200 just like in my country when people come in, they 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:22.280 may come from the eastern end of the States and 1:43:22.320 --> 1:43:25.160 the one to go swamp rabbit NTY. So take them 1:43:25.200 --> 1:43:29.160 down into the Clark's River bottoms in there a lot 1:43:29.200 --> 1:43:32.679 of little swamps and in water ditches, and the hill 1:43:33.320 --> 1:43:35.720 dogs that come out of eastern Kentucky are not used 1:43:35.760 --> 1:43:39.760 to running in water and swamp rabbit. You put enough 1:43:39.760 --> 1:43:42.679 pressure on them, they'll hit, hit the water, swim across. 1:43:43.080 --> 1:43:45.080 And it's the needest thing in the world to see 1:43:45.280 --> 1:43:49.040 a swamp rabbit swimming because they make no wake. They've 1:43:49.040 --> 1:43:51.439 got these little bitty you know, their feet, they're just 1:43:51.560 --> 1:43:54.400 barely paddling right there and they see this rabbitness like 1:43:54.439 --> 1:43:57.960 you're just gliding out across the water. But they'll bring 1:43:58.000 --> 1:44:00.880 their dogs down that are not accustomed water in they'll 1:44:00.920 --> 1:44:03.040 trail a swamp rabbit to the edge of the water 1:44:04.000 --> 1:44:06.680 and maybe they wait out just a little bit, and 1:44:06.760 --> 1:44:10.280 then they won't go swimming, you know, after those those 1:44:10.320 --> 1:44:12.599 swamp rabbits, And a lot of times the swamp rabbit 1:44:12.760 --> 1:44:15.920 just go out ten twenty ten yards or so and 1:44:16.000 --> 1:44:20.120 just squat down in the water and just just stay there, 1:44:20.680 --> 1:44:24.479 sometimes just with their head just barely barely submerged. I 1:44:24.600 --> 1:44:27.439 have have not seen one, but they will go under water. 1:44:27.560 --> 1:44:30.080 To have talked to people that have seen them do that, 1:44:30.479 --> 1:44:34.720 like a rambo rabbit go under water and then come So. 1:44:35.439 --> 1:44:37.599 I've got a friend of mine, his dad saw one 1:44:37.720 --> 1:44:40.120 do that one time. But I have seen them on 1:44:40.680 --> 1:44:45.360 three or four occasions swim uh through swamps across the 1:44:45.439 --> 1:44:49.360 Clarks River, and some little bitty water hos just go 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:51.639 in there. And it's the neediest thing in the world 1:44:51.920 --> 1:44:54.320 to see that. But I see people bring their dogs 1:44:54.360 --> 1:44:56.640 down that are not accustomed to the water, and they 1:44:56.680 --> 1:44:59.600 won't follow us swamp rabbit through through the swamps and 1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:02.320 or across the river to the other side. And that 1:45:02.479 --> 1:45:04.880 which my dogs are got lucy out there and when 1:45:04.920 --> 1:45:07.000 she was a puppy. I just would give her out 1:45:07.040 --> 1:45:09.120 there to follow me around and get her swimming into 1:45:09.160 --> 1:45:11.120 the Pond's get him accustomed to the water as soon 1:45:11.200 --> 1:45:13.479 as I can, so they're not afraid to go out 1:45:13.560 --> 1:45:16.559 swimming to no degree. I tell everybody she's half river otter, 1:45:16.960 --> 1:45:23.799 because I've got a real neat picture where Raymond and um, Jason, 1:45:23.880 --> 1:45:26.559 you met Jason and you met Jody, we all boated 1:45:26.600 --> 1:45:30.240 into the k o W. I think it's about three 1:45:30.360 --> 1:45:32.479 or four years ago. The river was coming up and 1:45:32.680 --> 1:45:34.960 Raymond hunted that ever since he was a kid. He 1:45:35.040 --> 1:45:38.280 says Murphy, I'm pretty sure it's gonna probably push a 1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:41.559 bunch of rabbits up into this hill. Down there's all 1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:43.640 flat river bottom land anyway, So we can boat in 1:45:44.000 --> 1:45:47.000 about four or five dred yards and go in there 1:45:47.120 --> 1:45:49.640 and hunt that big areas to be a couple of 1:45:49.720 --> 1:45:52.559 hundred acres, and then that's not flooded out of about 1:45:52.800 --> 1:45:55.200 I think it's about five thousand acres down only, so 1:45:55.320 --> 1:45:58.560 you're concentrating all those rabbits onto that one patch. That 1:45:58.680 --> 1:46:01.679 one patch. So we went down there and we killed 1:46:02.040 --> 1:46:05.640 eight swamp rabbits that on that hunt, and after it 1:46:05.720 --> 1:46:10.639 was all over pretty much after that hunt. Raymond says, 1:46:10.760 --> 1:46:13.320 I thought we might kill one or two down there, 1:46:13.360 --> 1:46:15.360 and that, like you said, they concentrated, pushed them all 1:46:15.520 --> 1:46:19.920 up there, and um, we had a really good hunt. Uh. 1:46:20.479 --> 1:46:22.400 A couple of them hit the water on us and 1:46:22.560 --> 1:46:26.479 got away. Didn't get those. And we're going down through there, 1:46:26.680 --> 1:46:28.400 and all of a sudden we see this blue kayak 1:46:29.200 --> 1:46:31.840 coming out across the water, and Raymond looks at me 1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:34.800 and says, who in the hill is down here in 1:46:34.880 --> 1:46:37.599 a blue kite? Must be some birder or something. Well, 1:46:38.040 --> 1:46:41.000 they see us and they start started paddling. Well, it's 1:46:41.120 --> 1:46:47.360 Raymond's brother, Mike. He is down there deer hunting because 1:46:47.400 --> 1:46:50.120 he knows that, like I said, they've hunted this place 1:46:50.479 --> 1:46:54.160 since they were kids. Lady, yeah, he's gonna be the 1:46:54.280 --> 1:46:57.400 deer up there. So we're all sitting sitting around through 1:46:57.479 --> 1:47:00.599 there looking and all of a sudden, Mike said, man, 1:47:01.160 --> 1:47:04.439 there's something swimming way out there. He says, it's a 1:47:04.479 --> 1:47:08.000 swamp rabbit. So Raymond queels around there and shoots. And 1:47:08.080 --> 1:47:10.599 he's only one that wore chess waiters that day. Luckily 1:47:10.840 --> 1:47:13.120 he did that because my boat wouldn't start that morning. 1:47:13.280 --> 1:47:18.360 So Chester beware of used boats. Well, he's gonna tear 1:47:18.360 --> 1:47:19.760 it up. He's gonna wind up with a brand new 1:47:19.800 --> 1:47:23.920 boat on that big Okay. So so Raymond shoots this 1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:26.679 swamp right, I mean he's way out, like fifty yards 1:47:26.800 --> 1:47:28.880 or so. So he goes out and picks up and 1:47:28.920 --> 1:47:30.400 I take a picture of him. He's got an orange 1:47:30.439 --> 1:47:32.720 head on it. It's just a little bit dispec is 1:47:32.760 --> 1:47:35.320 all it is of Raymond out there. So he comes 1:47:35.360 --> 1:47:38.120 into the to the bank with this this swamp rabbits. 1:47:38.120 --> 1:47:40.240 So we got his brother there in the blue kayak, 1:47:41.200 --> 1:47:44.280 got Jason, and then Jodie is all down there. So 1:47:44.400 --> 1:47:47.479 we got the whole gang out out killing swamp rabbits 1:47:47.520 --> 1:47:50.920 that morning. And U I can remember when I was 1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:55.040 worked at the Pire plant and there was a boy 1:47:55.200 --> 1:47:58.080 from LBL before they flooded it, and he said when 1:47:58.120 --> 1:48:02.320 we was kids, the crops wouldn't be in and that's 1:48:02.520 --> 1:48:04.880 the Cumberland River running through there. Says that the grown 1:48:04.960 --> 1:48:07.080 ups would be talking about the river's getting ready to 1:48:07.120 --> 1:48:09.920 get up, and we don't have our crops out. He says, 1:48:10.040 --> 1:48:12.439 all those kids were thinking about. Man, the river gets 1:48:12.560 --> 1:48:14.760 up and the swamp rabbits getting there. We're gonna take 1:48:14.760 --> 1:48:16.880 a tobacco stick in there and going there White Laham. 1:48:17.040 --> 1:48:19.360 So you know, they were all excited that he's gonna 1:48:19.439 --> 1:48:21.840 flood because they could get to go hunting. But you know, 1:48:21.880 --> 1:48:25.600 the adults were concerned, you know, just like adults should be. 1:48:25.760 --> 1:48:27.280 You know, they were gonna lose their corn crop. But 1:48:27.320 --> 1:48:29.600 all the kids were ready to go hunting because they 1:48:29.640 --> 1:48:31.960 pushes that game up. So that we're with these boys, 1:48:32.080 --> 1:48:35.320 these these tribal you know Amerindians in one of these 1:48:35.360 --> 1:48:39.519 areas in South America, and uh, they were telling us 1:48:39.560 --> 1:48:42.960 that that's that's when they hunt, is when everything floods 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:49.720 and they just go island hopping because the deer and 1:48:49.800 --> 1:48:53.519 these big you know, they hunt these uh, nocturnal rodents 1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:57.640 down there. Like the hell they call those things like 1:48:57.800 --> 1:49:02.080 there's the well there's they call it's a PoCA. But 1:49:02.720 --> 1:49:04.880 guy's got our damn name and a goody. You know 1:49:04.920 --> 1:49:07.160 it's different than the goody either way, you care, what 1:49:07.200 --> 1:49:09.160 the hell? It was very good eat we had it 1:49:09.520 --> 1:49:12.160 a bunch tastes. It's like it's like very pork like. Anyways, 1:49:12.720 --> 1:49:14.639 then they can win it floods and that's in their 1:49:14.680 --> 1:49:17.400 mind when to go hunting because it's so easy. Just 1:49:17.479 --> 1:49:19.800 go check all the little islands and everything that everything 1:49:19.880 --> 1:49:23.519 that needs to breathe there, it's on the same place. 1:49:23.600 --> 1:49:26.120 And they talked about sometimes you can go up and 1:49:26.240 --> 1:49:31.960 just club stuff. That's what it's so star. Yeah, they 1:49:32.000 --> 1:49:35.040 don't just hunt with a stick. One of my friends 1:49:35.120 --> 1:49:38.200 he saw, well, you know that morning that we went 1:49:38.240 --> 1:49:40.000 to a swamp rabbit had the boat. There was three 1:49:40.080 --> 1:49:44.280 quails setting on a log in the backwater. So and 1:49:44.400 --> 1:49:46.560 then a friend of mine, he was out checking on 1:49:46.680 --> 1:49:48.880 his duck line yesterday he sent me a picture of 1:49:48.960 --> 1:49:51.360 a swamp rabbit up on a on a log. I 1:49:51.400 --> 1:49:55.280 think I showed it because yeah, and that was just yesterday. 1:49:55.880 --> 1:49:59.280 Our river system is coming up two ft a day, 1:49:59.520 --> 1:50:01.840 so it's on a really big rise and that's you 1:50:01.920 --> 1:50:04.720 know the river downer where Leon lives. You know, it's 1:50:04.720 --> 1:50:07.280 about two miles wide down there now. So that's a 1:50:07.520 --> 1:50:10.840 tremendous amount of water that I live around. I knew 1:50:10.880 --> 1:50:14.400 these guys that lived in an area in Alberta where 1:50:14.479 --> 1:50:17.920 it was legal though you could hunt beavers like well 1:50:18.000 --> 1:50:19.960 normal you can't, but you can hunt beavers for the markets. 1:50:20.920 --> 1:50:23.320 And they would in the spring floods everything. The water 1:50:23.439 --> 1:50:25.439 gets so high that all the bank dens and lodges 1:50:25.479 --> 1:50:28.000 and flood. And they'd go out on a john boat 1:50:28.040 --> 1:50:31.280 with a twenty two. And he was telling me one time. 1:50:31.280 --> 1:50:33.599 I can't remember, I remember he said something they hunted 1:50:33.600 --> 1:50:35.800 two days because like nine beavers or something like that 1:50:36.320 --> 1:50:39.720 with the twenty two. Oh, because they were everything was 1:50:39.760 --> 1:50:44.360 flooded out of its house. It's tremendous amount of skin 1:50:44.479 --> 1:50:48.400 in there if you killed that being two days. Pure misery, man, 1:50:48.680 --> 1:50:51.120 pure misery. Let me ask you this, though, Kevin, do 1:50:51.240 --> 1:50:53.719 you uh do you regret coming out to New Mexico 1:50:53.760 --> 1:50:56.280 with your dogs? Oh? No, No, it's been a pleasure. 1:50:56.320 --> 1:50:59.760 I met Mike and Jeremy, you two new guys. Say 1:51:00.200 --> 1:51:02.360 in Chester and say you again? Now you know we 1:51:02.520 --> 1:51:05.720 met the first time, I think in St. Louis. So 1:51:05.880 --> 1:51:09.720 here we are. I was signing something another at the 1:51:09.840 --> 1:51:12.080 n r A convention. Yeah, and I come up to 1:51:12.200 --> 1:51:13.880 you and started talking to you. Some man. You need 1:51:14.000 --> 1:51:16.400 to get some kids into small game, honey, because I 1:51:16.439 --> 1:51:18.320 can go right out their back door with him. That's 1:51:18.320 --> 1:51:21.439 not what That's not what attracted me to you. What 1:51:21.600 --> 1:51:24.160 attracted me to you? And you know doing it. You're 1:51:24.160 --> 1:51:26.040 talking all kinds of people and after a while, it's 1:51:26.040 --> 1:51:29.240 it's it's hard to keep track. But the reason you 1:51:29.280 --> 1:51:31.240 and I be this is not the reason we became friends, 1:51:31.320 --> 1:51:35.240 but the reason I we began to correspond is you 1:51:35.280 --> 1:51:39.280 were the first person in my life to ever come 1:51:39.439 --> 1:51:43.639 up to me and start making a guess about whether 1:51:43.800 --> 1:51:47.080 the squirrel hunting would be good this year. And you 1:51:47.160 --> 1:51:49.840 were looking forward to the squirrel season because you felt 1:51:49.880 --> 1:51:52.840 that the massed crop was looking pretty strong in your area. 1:51:53.560 --> 1:51:56.360 And in all my years, I've never had someone come 1:51:56.479 --> 1:52:01.360 up and predict to me, um and try to like 1:52:01.520 --> 1:52:03.479 make a guest to me about what the squirrel season 1:52:03.479 --> 1:52:05.920 would look like based on mass crop. And I said, 1:52:05.920 --> 1:52:09.599 that's a special man. It's all about food, not people 1:52:09.640 --> 1:52:12.040 all day long. A lot of good antler growth, which 1:52:12.080 --> 1:52:15.120 is fine, that's great. But I've never had someone come 1:52:15.200 --> 1:52:17.559 up and be like, there's a very strong mass crop 1:52:17.640 --> 1:52:19.519 and I think it's gonna be an exceptional squirrel yar. 1:52:20.760 --> 1:52:22.320 And I said, I want to be friends with that person. 1:52:23.680 --> 1:52:29.000 Here we are. We've hung out in a lot of states. Now, man, Yes, 1:52:31.520 --> 1:52:42.120 Kevin Murphy, you know what the American treasure. You just 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:45.519 got to get that joint technique down right, Kevin. If 1:52:45.560 --> 1:52:48.240 you spent enough time here with your dogs, do you 1:52:48.439 --> 1:52:54.439 think your dogs would would adapt to the landscape? And second, 1:52:54.680 --> 1:52:57.439 if you took them back to your home, do you 1:52:57.479 --> 1:53:01.599 think they would perform better? Wor that's a good question. 1:53:01.920 --> 1:53:04.000 That like that, that's a great question. Would they be 1:53:04.120 --> 1:53:13.479 like ship? You know we left out? Uh, let's see 1:53:13.560 --> 1:53:15.680 last Saturday, we could go Saturday. It was got up 1:53:15.720 --> 1:53:20.080 as a minus four degrees windshield and I had two 1:53:20.120 --> 1:53:24.160 friends down and was gonna go squirrel hunting. And we 1:53:24.320 --> 1:53:28.160 had I think fourteen days below thirty degrees. It was 1:53:28.320 --> 1:53:29.920 a coach spell for us. I think it was like 1:53:30.040 --> 1:53:32.639 the fourth longest song record from so and so there. 1:53:33.560 --> 1:53:37.920 But it was the sun was warming up and the 1:53:40.439 --> 1:53:42.519 I thought the squirrels would come out. So I told 1:53:42.640 --> 1:53:44.360 my friends, said, let's just wait untill about dinner time. 1:53:44.400 --> 1:53:48.679 So we went out and we we killed some squirrels. 1:53:51.120 --> 1:53:53.360 I think, you know, if I stayed down here for 1:53:53.640 --> 1:53:56.240 a month or so and figured out, I think my 1:53:56.320 --> 1:53:59.720 dogs would get better. I feel if I raised a 1:54:00.040 --> 1:54:02.920 narration of dogs out of those same dogs, they would 1:54:02.920 --> 1:54:05.360 have no trouble down here with some tough one booty. Yeah, 1:54:05.439 --> 1:54:08.000 I think they'd get tough enough with that. But you know, 1:54:08.080 --> 1:54:10.400 my dogs are used to running in muck and my 1:54:10.880 --> 1:54:17.559 in leaf letter, not abrasive grit and gravel, and used 1:54:17.560 --> 1:54:19.000 to all these sornings. You know, they'll go right through 1:54:19.479 --> 1:54:22.800 BlackBerry bushes, the brambles, no problems at all. You know, 1:54:22.800 --> 1:54:26.840 a little short but these long mesquite Yeah, I don't 1:54:26.840 --> 1:54:29.120 think so, but I think they would get better. I 1:54:29.200 --> 1:54:31.880 don't think they would be ever be great, but I 1:54:32.000 --> 1:54:35.640 think I could raise or litteral pups down here. Now 1:54:35.680 --> 1:54:37.360 if I took those back home, I think they would 1:54:37.400 --> 1:54:41.000 be lost. Oh yeah, because they're not used to the 1:54:41.080 --> 1:54:43.080 water unless I trained that went to the rivers and 1:54:43.120 --> 1:54:47.160 got them accustomed to swim. And Jesson started Kevin Murphy 1:54:47.240 --> 1:54:50.920 Southwest Division and happy to be that you have a 1:54:51.000 --> 1:54:54.440 division of you that lives here with rabbit dogs. I 1:54:54.480 --> 1:54:58.160 would love to hear from some local rabbit hunter, beagle 1:54:58.200 --> 1:55:00.280 guy or somebody that frequents here. I got known the 1:55:00.320 --> 1:55:03.200 Internet and looked around and tried to find rabbit hunting 1:55:03.320 --> 1:55:07.040 in New Mexico with dogs. There was nothing. That's why 1:55:07.040 --> 1:55:09.000 I was so intrigued by it. When you brought it up, 1:55:09.080 --> 1:55:11.480 I was like, not only yes, but hell yes, because 1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:13.960 I've never heard anybody doing that before. I got another 1:55:13.960 --> 1:55:17.520 I got another follow up question for you, Kevin, Based 1:55:17.560 --> 1:55:21.320 on what you now know with your beagles, what do 1:55:21.440 --> 1:55:25.120 you feel what happened? Would you be more or less 1:55:25.240 --> 1:55:29.680 enthusiastic about bringing out your squirrel dogs for abert squirrels 1:55:29.720 --> 1:55:32.080 or would you be like, I've learned my lesson ain't 1:55:32.080 --> 1:55:36.960 gonna happen. I'm coming because I've got I've got not 1:55:37.040 --> 1:55:41.640 even tell me about it, abert sons of bitches. Okay, 1:55:41.640 --> 1:55:47.400 here's the difference. Here's the difference. You didn't get invite. 1:55:47.680 --> 1:55:50.400 We'll plan our own trip. Man, get some real squirrel 1:55:50.440 --> 1:55:53.360 man out here. Bagel is and the way you want 1:55:53.400 --> 1:55:59.000 to bagel nos nos pretty much nine. That's what it uses. 1:55:59.120 --> 1:56:00.800 It's using. And that was where if you've got a 1:56:00.840 --> 1:56:03.920 good squirrel dog, it's using its ears. It's no in 1:56:04.000 --> 1:56:07.400 its eyes. So if we go with those big ponderosa pines, 1:56:07.480 --> 1:56:10.680 they're the squirrel dogs that I have, we'll be able 1:56:10.720 --> 1:56:13.480 to see those and so when they see them, they're 1:56:13.520 --> 1:56:15.480 gonna be able to tree them. They're not gonna have 1:56:15.480 --> 1:56:19.040 to worry about them jump into the next pine tree. Right. 1:56:19.120 --> 1:56:20.880 I mean the landscapes as saying I haven't seen it 1:56:21.120 --> 1:56:23.320 in person, but just looking they're going to be in 1:56:23.400 --> 1:56:26.840 that probably you feel you'd have more luck. Yes, yeah, yeah, 1:56:26.920 --> 1:56:29.560 I'm I'm I'm coming. You know I'm gonna do that, dude. 1:56:29.600 --> 1:56:30.880 I want to go so bad. I can't lef you 1:56:30.880 --> 1:56:33.000 guys and tell me, let's do it. I did tell 1:56:33.040 --> 1:56:37.280 you about you did not be like, oh, I'm planning 1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:43.480 a trip with Kevin for squirrels. Well that's completely different. 1:56:43.760 --> 1:56:46.680 At least was exposed to that place anybody, you know, 1:56:46.920 --> 1:56:49.000 But I was exposed to planning. Wasn't like they just 1:56:49.080 --> 1:56:52.560 sneaking off in the bushes and planning up avert squirrel hunts. Not. 1:56:53.680 --> 1:56:55.720 We'll see how things shake out and we'll call you 1:56:55.800 --> 1:57:00.440 if you know it's room. I think that would be 1:57:01.040 --> 1:57:03.320 an amazing thing to try to do. I bet it 1:57:03.360 --> 1:57:06.400 would really work. I bet it work a lot better 1:57:06.480 --> 1:57:10.600 than beagles. There's gonna be a lot less rocks, cactuses, 1:57:10.720 --> 1:57:16.720 Pokey's yeah, and in the audio the audio visual, it's interesting. 1:57:16.800 --> 1:57:20.960 Now that's a good point. Oh right, man, Kevin, thank 1:57:21.000 --> 1:57:23.680 you very much for coming out. Appreciate that you're you're 1:57:23.680 --> 1:57:28.480 an inspiration to me as an adventuring spirit, you'd like 1:57:28.560 --> 1:57:30.720 to go do stuff. I like to go out and live. 1:57:30.760 --> 1:57:32.280 I'm in the fourth quarter of my life and i 1:57:32.360 --> 1:57:36.160 want to see the world. You know. I find it amazing. 1:57:36.280 --> 1:57:40.000 You know, I'm looking out and seeing things and I'm asking, like, 1:57:40.080 --> 1:57:42.080 Jeremy soon, what kind of plant is this here? What 1:57:42.280 --> 1:57:45.800 is this animal mound? Here? So, I mean, those small 1:57:45.880 --> 1:57:48.600 things intrigued me. And I'm just not about going, you know, 1:57:48.880 --> 1:57:50.800 I'm gonna kill this animal or this one. I want 1:57:50.800 --> 1:57:53.640 to see everything that's out there and try to figure 1:57:53.680 --> 1:57:55.520 it out and try to put it together. I mean, 1:57:55.640 --> 1:57:59.120 I just love the world, how Mother Nature makes things 1:57:59.240 --> 1:58:02.880 all interact, the desert quail. To see those things out there, 1:58:03.040 --> 1:58:05.240 you know, what's it gonna take to make them things fly? Jeremy, 1:58:05.840 --> 1:58:08.000 I mean, are they half a road runner? You know? 1:58:08.440 --> 1:58:11.000 I got into two bunches of them. I soul you guys, 1:58:11.160 --> 1:58:14.280 you know, pushing those down, and they were just like running, running, running. 1:58:15.080 --> 1:58:17.600 And I saw a covey the other day and I 1:58:18.000 --> 1:58:19.480 tried to get on top of them, and I just 1:58:19.520 --> 1:58:21.600 saw them one time and they was gone in a 1:58:21.680 --> 1:58:25.080 little drain area over by the two water tanks. But yeah, yeah, 1:58:25.080 --> 1:58:27.920 I've enjoyed this very much. And I was telling a 1:58:27.960 --> 1:58:31.760 dirt there day yesterday, and Dirt was saying if I 1:58:31.960 --> 1:58:36.240 asked if I was the kind of person that felt 1:58:36.320 --> 1:58:39.800 things will always just work out. And I explained the 1:58:39.880 --> 1:58:43.800 dirt that that no, think. I was saying, you need 1:58:43.840 --> 1:58:49.280 to wake up every day paranoid. And he said, but 1:58:49.400 --> 1:58:53.560 if you try, they'll always work out. And I said, oh, absolutely, man, 1:58:53.680 --> 1:58:57.080 I think if you uh, I think that we live 1:58:57.120 --> 1:59:00.800 in a land of tremendous opportunity. And I was like, 1:59:00.840 --> 1:59:05.000 if you apply yourself and try hard and focus, things 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:07.680 will work out for you. But then I brought up that. 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:09.400 I was like, there's a thing that happens to people 1:59:09.440 --> 1:59:12.200 that doesn't get talked about. Is so many of the 1:59:12.280 --> 1:59:16.000 people I know that eventually fall into uh not it 1:59:16.160 --> 1:59:20.360 not working out for them so often, is uh they 1:59:20.440 --> 1:59:24.240 become piste off and bitter like. No one talks about 1:59:24.320 --> 1:59:27.120 the nothing, no one talks about it. There's a real 1:59:27.240 --> 1:59:31.000 problem with becoming piste off and bitter like. It happens 1:59:31.040 --> 1:59:35.800 to people and then it's just downhill. And the thing 1:59:35.880 --> 1:59:38.560 I like about you is how optimistic you are, like 1:59:38.640 --> 1:59:40.080 you gotta go and you you gotta go in and 1:59:40.160 --> 1:59:41.800 get a whole new damn knee and then get better 1:59:41.840 --> 1:59:44.880 and go get a whole another knee can be fixed 1:59:44.880 --> 1:59:47.840 and you're not even remotely irritated by this because it 1:59:47.880 --> 1:59:51.120 can be fixed. A part of life, I mean, as 1:59:51.200 --> 1:59:53.800 human beings, we have the power to believe in something 1:59:53.880 --> 1:59:56.960 better that's out there and that we have the power 1:59:57.000 --> 1:59:59.840 to go after it. That separates us from the animal kingdom. 2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:04.160 Animal kingdom just does it's just instinct. I've got to 2:00:04.480 --> 2:00:07.280 get some nuts buried up. But we have the power 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:09.200 to look out there and say, hey, I can build this, 2:00:09.480 --> 2:00:13.040 I can do this. I can go over there aspirational. Yes, yeah, 2:00:13.120 --> 2:00:15.280 I mean we can. We can imagine things that are 2:00:15.320 --> 2:00:19.080 not there. You know. I feel like if my knee failed, 2:00:19.160 --> 2:00:21.400 I would I mean I would battle it out, but 2:00:21.440 --> 2:00:24.960 I would have a problem with turning piste off. It's 2:00:25.320 --> 2:00:28.800 just in my d n A arthritis runs into my family, um, 2:00:29.720 --> 2:00:31.400 and it's just part of life. I mean, I'll be 2:00:31.480 --> 2:00:35.600 sixty two in September, and it's just you know, I've 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:37.720 got a lot of wear and tear on that knee, 2:00:38.280 --> 2:00:42.680 playing sports, walking being outside. It's just I've used it 2:00:43.000 --> 2:00:46.720 and I can get it fixed. Um, you know, I've 2:00:46.760 --> 2:00:49.000 got it on the healing phase of the moon. So 2:00:49.160 --> 2:00:52.360 every card I can play, I'm gonna play. I've got 2:00:52.400 --> 2:00:55.000 a really good doctor that cares about me. I'm putting 2:00:55.440 --> 2:01:01.600 eighteen inch suer line through his backyard. Just ther No, 2:01:01.760 --> 2:01:03.840 this is part of a project. If we couldn't get 2:01:03.880 --> 2:01:06.040 easy with on some people through there, and they wanted 2:01:06.040 --> 2:01:07.360 me to go, Breck was gonna have to take out 2:01:07.400 --> 2:01:10.120 some treaties or something. So uh, I said, I've got 2:01:10.200 --> 2:01:12.000 to go get an injection. So maybe I'm sitting on 2:01:12.040 --> 2:01:15.880 my schedule my knee surgery so I can maybe get 2:01:15.960 --> 2:01:17.440 to talk to him. In the contract, we wanted me 2:01:17.520 --> 2:01:19.240 to talk to him because I had to get an 2:01:19.280 --> 2:01:22.680 easement from a former mayor that that I used to 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:24.560 work for, and they wanted me to go in there 2:01:24.600 --> 2:01:27.400 and talk to him. So I got it, and um, 2:01:28.720 --> 2:01:31.640 you know, the world's about politics making deals. Sitting here, 2:01:31.800 --> 2:01:33.560 you're saying what you would need to say. I say 2:01:33.600 --> 2:01:35.600 what I need and we come to a conclusion there 2:01:35.880 --> 2:01:38.320 for good of me and you both and are everybody, 2:01:38.440 --> 2:01:41.360 and that's the way we need to stay. But I 2:01:41.560 --> 2:01:43.480 was going through there, and then one neighbor comes up 2:01:43.520 --> 2:01:46.000 to me and says, let me tell you something about 2:01:47.560 --> 2:01:50.280 Dr Ptel. He's my doctor. I don't mind saying his name. 2:01:50.360 --> 2:01:53.600 He's really I really love him. He says, you know, 2:01:53.800 --> 2:01:55.960 if you've got a doctor, you don't want a doctor 2:01:56.120 --> 2:01:59.520 that's a big duck hunter or a farmer or wants 2:01:59.560 --> 2:02:02.800 to be an artists. You want a doctor that likes 2:02:02.880 --> 2:02:06.160 to make people well. He said, that's what Dr Betel is. 2:02:06.760 --> 2:02:08.880 So I just kind of kept my mouth shutting never 2:02:09.000 --> 2:02:10.320 you know, not until he got the end, because I 2:02:10.600 --> 2:02:12.080 was all ears waiting to see what he had to 2:02:12.120 --> 2:02:14.680 say about Dr Mattel. And then he said that. That 2:02:14.920 --> 2:02:18.600 really made me charge up and say, hey, yeah, I've 2:02:18.720 --> 2:02:21.360 made the right, right decision on the doctor. And like 2:02:21.360 --> 2:02:24.760 I said, a friend of mine, he's eighty one, had 2:02:24.800 --> 2:02:27.200 a heart vowel replacement. They were gonna put in four 2:02:27.320 --> 2:02:30.120 stints in him. He picked out the right healing moonface 2:02:30.200 --> 2:02:32.760 for the heart and went in there and come out 2:02:32.800 --> 2:02:35.480 of the operation with a new heart valve in two 2:02:35.600 --> 2:02:38.120 stints in there. And I'll see him Monday night at 2:02:38.160 --> 2:02:41.520 the LBL Sportsman Club meeting. And he's still guiding at 2:02:41.560 --> 2:02:44.520 eighty one. He's a fish guide. Mike, You might want 2:02:44.520 --> 2:02:47.080 to want him. You'd be better be glad that he 2:02:47.160 --> 2:02:49.480 knows a Kentucky and not New Mexico because he would 2:02:49.480 --> 2:02:54.960 wear your ass out. So um, you know, we all 2:02:55.200 --> 2:02:57.120 have that pire to wake up in the morning and 2:02:57.280 --> 2:03:01.600 go out and do something good, you know, and work, 2:03:01.760 --> 2:03:06.320 whether you volunteer, if you go through your life, I'm 2:03:06.360 --> 2:03:08.400 gonna continue working. That's something I've just seen in the 2:03:08.480 --> 2:03:11.800 last couple of years. I thought, when I retire, I'm 2:03:11.800 --> 2:03:14.560 going to retire and go hunting and fishing and stuff. Well, 2:03:15.160 --> 2:03:17.320 you can only do so much hunting and fishing, really can't. 2:03:17.320 --> 2:03:19.400 And the older you get, the less you got. I mean, 2:03:19.400 --> 2:03:21.440 I see Jeremy out here. I said, how much guess 2:03:21.520 --> 2:03:23.400 you got left? And you tank? You said, it's it's full. 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:29.520 It's always full. It's off. So you know, I can remember, 2:03:29.560 --> 2:03:31.240 I said, I can remember days like that. But I'm 2:03:31.240 --> 2:03:32.800 not like that anymore. I just want to go out 2:03:33.400 --> 2:03:37.560 and and do my thing and watch other people hunt. 2:03:37.640 --> 2:03:39.720 I don't have to kill something every single time that 2:03:39.760 --> 2:03:41.120 I go out. I don't have to get the limit. 2:03:41.240 --> 2:03:44.360 If I can just get one, I'm completely satisfied. That's 2:03:44.400 --> 2:03:47.760 all I have to do. But yeah, it's good to 2:03:47.840 --> 2:03:51.520 keep a good positive attitude, and that's what I'm gonna 2:03:51.560 --> 2:03:53.680 try to do to the end of my life. You know, 2:03:53.760 --> 2:03:57.880 it's just work. Be out in the dirt, outside, out 2:03:58.000 --> 2:04:05.520 in nature, and just leave it damn straight. I like it. 2:04:05.800 --> 2:04:12.320 Kevin Murphy, thanks so much, Kevin, Thanks everyone for joining. 2:04:12.720 --> 2:04:13.280 See you soon.