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Speaker 1: This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening Hunt podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are

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Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor

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Speaker 1: where you stand with on X alright, chatter. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: start right out with the with A with A with

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Speaker 1: A segment, aren't you gonna say? I trust that Phil

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Speaker 1: is going to put in the the jingle, the jingle

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Speaker 1: the Continuing Adventures of Chester the Investor comes. That's it,

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Speaker 1: Come on, and there's a there's a there's not an

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Speaker 1: inside joke. There's a very obscure joke built into the

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Speaker 1: intro for Chester the Investor. Yeah. I think that if you,

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Speaker 1: if you, if you know what we're talking about, you

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Speaker 1: should write in and explain what the joke is once

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Speaker 1: you listen to it. Not you Chester? Yeah? All right?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, where are we at? There is there a wall?

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Speaker 1: Do you do you own a walleyeboat? Now? I do

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Speaker 1: not own a Walleye boat. Um, Slowly but surely it

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Speaker 1: is looking good. Eventually, eventually will be fishing. Steve and

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Speaker 1: cracking a few cold ones. So since we last spoke,

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Speaker 1: how is your how is your bitcoin investment? So Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: right now is volatile, as my brother would say, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, up and down. A lot of people are

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Speaker 1: selling and buying and selling and buying, and it was down.

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Speaker 1: They have weak constitutions, Yeah, they're they're not strong. You

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Speaker 1: gotta stay strong in the bitcoin game. Um. But uh,

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Speaker 1: it was down a while. Um kind of February, like

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Speaker 1: late February bitcoin was down a little, but um, as

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Speaker 1: of yesterday kind of rallied again and uh, and it's

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Speaker 1: starting to go up. So earlier I was asking Chester

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Speaker 1: about his thinking on this. Uh, if he as he

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Speaker 1: does this thing to get the walleye boat, as he earns,

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Speaker 1: the manipulates his bitcoin, not manipulates invests in bitcoin in

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Speaker 1: order to get a walleye boat. I was asking him,

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Speaker 1: does the initial investment get thrown in toward the boat. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so so that money is committed to the walleye boat. Yes,

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Speaker 1: But again, like I said, when I get there, I

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Speaker 1: still will probably consult with you, you being included in that, um,

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Speaker 1: just to make sure I'm at the right time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel that if it's shot up and you got

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Speaker 1: to a basic walleye boat. You might drag your feet

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Speaker 1: and think you're going to get a sweeter walleye boat. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean over the long term of bitcoin, that would

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Speaker 1: happen like you would wind up with like a walleye yacht. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean you look at the percentages, it's like return

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Speaker 1: that anyone that's like, you know, if you've invested seven

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Speaker 1: years ago or something like that in bitcoin, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: darn Yeah. But do you want to wait seven years

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Speaker 1: for that wallet boat? Yeah, dude, wal I might not

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Speaker 1: even get around anymore. We got a fish. Now. They

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Speaker 1: are saying that it may triple. Well, I read that

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Speaker 1: to you this morning off CNN. Yeah, they're saying somebody's

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Speaker 1: saying it. Now listen, let me tell you something here

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Speaker 1: for uh. Sean Weaver wrote in a friend of ours

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Speaker 1: he was listening to He was listening to a previous

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Speaker 1: edition of Chester The Investor, and he wrote in to

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Speaker 1: say this. An Econ professor of mine in college talked

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Speaker 1: about the role of sentiment in markets and how it's

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Speaker 1: an important part of a market trying to find equilibrium.

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Speaker 1: There's an investing there's an investing strategy based around it

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Speaker 1: around being a contrarian. The basic logic is the time

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Speaker 1: to buy is when everyone thinks it's a horrible investment,

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Speaker 1: and the time to sell is when everyone thinks it's great.

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Speaker 1: Now here's when he has like a kind of weird

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Speaker 1: dig on this show, like he takes a pop shot

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Speaker 1: at like insults this show. Huh yeah, he says. He says,

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Speaker 1: I got a good chuckle today because I can't help

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Speaker 1: but think the Meat Eater podcast talking about bitcoin is

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Speaker 1: a good signal to sell for contrarian investors, which is

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Speaker 1: like us dig meaning like, if we know about it, it

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Speaker 1: it must to be that the cats out of the bag. No,

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Speaker 1: that's well, yes, that's what he means, but I would

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Speaker 1: say that's not the case at all. I'm the only

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Speaker 1: one sitting here who's invested in bitcoin. But I got

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Speaker 1: jealous this morning and texted my wife to see if

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Speaker 1: I could buy some bitcoin, and she said that ship

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Speaker 1: is sailed. No, I don't think it has. I do

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Speaker 1: not think it has, because, like I said, none of

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Speaker 1: you guys in this room, as I'm aware of, are

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Speaker 1: invested in bitcoin. So many people are skeptical, which is

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Speaker 1: understandable because it's a lot of this stuff is right

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Speaker 1: over my head and I don't even understand it. But

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Speaker 1: luckily I have somebody to consult with that, you know,

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Speaker 1: keeps me calm and keeps me in the game. Brother

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Speaker 1: and uh, we just had a long conversation with him

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Speaker 1: on the on the ride here about it, and uh,

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Speaker 1: guy knows the stuff you can. You can ask him

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Speaker 1: about anything, and you're you're saving up for a Lund.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be a Lund. But I like them both.

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Speaker 1: They are nice boats. I like them. That eighteen footer

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Speaker 1: that you run in Alaska. Get a little simple outboard

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Speaker 1: tiller fish finder right next to mee just over seven

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars for that whole with trailer, I think, so yeah, wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm I was, I'm getting there. I was looking at

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Speaker 1: him my line until until I found my boat. What's

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Speaker 1: your child like? So we're gonna keep the segment going

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Speaker 1: until you get the damn boat with the segment could

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Speaker 1: last year's this show. Could let this segment and that

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Speaker 1: fills jingle and everything. We might get years of material

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Speaker 1: out of this investment. You know, if it triples this year,

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Speaker 1: maybe uh maybe I can still keep some stuff in

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Speaker 1: bitcoin and still get the boat. And then we'll change

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Speaker 1: the segment and it will be a segment about your

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Speaker 1: Walleye adventures. He'll come try that, can you? Can you

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Speaker 1: put on the continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester into the

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Speaker 1: into the We'll see homes. Yeah, continuing the continuing the

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Speaker 1: continuing Walleye Adventures of Chester. The investor Mike and I

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Speaker 1: have the first first idea for it. I'm coming down

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Speaker 1: to New Mexico and we're gonna chase some New Mexico wall. Yeah, Mike,

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Speaker 1: you were saying, this is the southernmost wall. I here

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico, southernmost and in uh North America, as

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Speaker 1: far as I know. What's your title again? What's my title?

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us? You gotta keep secret. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say I work in fisheries. He's a fisheries big wig,

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Speaker 1: fisheries big wig that makes some more and bigger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Michael's explaining that. Let's say one was in fisheries. You

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Speaker 1: will find that the common feedback from the public is

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Speaker 1: that they would what they would like more bigger fish.

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Speaker 1: It's very it's really very simple. Here's anything to touch

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Speaker 1: on quick before we get into everything else. We're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be doing uh, first light, it's new Foundry bridges.

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Speaker 1: The Foundry pants are out there, these sons of bitch

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Speaker 1: and pants that it's been. But you're probably looking on jealously,

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Speaker 1: very jealously. This I'm not joking. I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: out how to say that that people recognize. I'm telling

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Speaker 1: the truth. It is the Foundry pants with the knee

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Speaker 1: pads built into them, are I'm not shooting you, like,

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Speaker 1: are the best hunting pants that I have ever ever

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Speaker 1: had on my body. Ever, they haven't a kneepad in them.

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Speaker 1: It's like a very lightweight, well integrated knepad. You can

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Speaker 1: take it out to wash them, but it's in there

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Speaker 1: so well. It's like it doesn't bother you hiking around

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Speaker 1: you do not know what's there. But when you get

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Speaker 1: out of your tent on your knees and the gravel

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Speaker 1: or you're on your knees glass and or you're crawling

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Speaker 1: up on something is such a game changer. And they

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Speaker 1: got very like like a very durable blend of fabrics.

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Speaker 1: But I've got I don't know, man, I've been wearing

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing like a pair of all fall I've got

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Speaker 1: well over sixty days into them. Um God, they're comfortable

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Speaker 1: and they have side zippers. So if you get first

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Speaker 1: lights zip on long John's and you've got the side

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Speaker 1: zip around these pants, you can undo the side zip

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Speaker 1: around the pants and through that little hole unzip your

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Speaker 1: long John's and actually pull your long John's off like

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Speaker 1: a magic trick. Have you seen me do this? You

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Speaker 1: never have to drop your drawers. You don't even drop Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't even drop your drawers. You unzip a zipper,

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Speaker 1: reach in there and unzip another zipper like it's like

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Speaker 1: a magic trick. Also, and you're standing here hold in

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Speaker 1: your Long John's. Damn good pants like the just in

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Speaker 1: terms of durability, comfort, pocket configuration, knee pads, side zipper fit,

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Speaker 1: even the right amount of belt loops in the right places,

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Speaker 1: like the best pants I have ever worn. Now, quick

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Speaker 1: word about vass leaning dampons. A woman from Ashley, No,

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Speaker 1: she's from. Her name is Ashley, She's from Austin. She

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Speaker 1: wrote in to say it to have this to share

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Speaker 1: about the Meteor Guide to Wilderness Skills and Survival, which

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Speaker 1: is available now at Amazon dot com. In there, we

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Speaker 1: make a very spirited argument for using as your firestarter.

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Speaker 1: You go find a friend who dips and get one

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Speaker 1: of their used dip tins right chew ten and then

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Speaker 1: you take cotton balls and rub vassilene into those cotton

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Speaker 1: balls and pack that chew tin old the cotton full

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Speaker 1: of vast Lane infused cotton balls. Because they make wonderful

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Speaker 1: fire starters. It doubles as vast lane if you need,

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Speaker 1: like you get chapped lips, a braided skin, um and

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Speaker 1: t s A guys don't steal it from you because

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Speaker 1: when you're toting around any kind of accelerant, like all

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Speaker 1: those sort of fire starters from the sporting goods store,

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Speaker 1: the t s A guys will take them from you

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Speaker 1: and potentially find you. We gotta fine seven not not

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Speaker 1: for a fire starter, but we had a seven thousand

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Speaker 1: dollar fine from is a beutane fuel canstor my body

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Speaker 1: that showed up in the security line with a loaded

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Speaker 1: pistol that he didn't know he had in his bag

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Speaker 1: had less of a fine than a jet bowl canister,

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Speaker 1: which our lawyer got it knocked down to half. That

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Speaker 1: how do you know you have a pistol in your

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Speaker 1: bag that's loaded? I told, This is the feedback I

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Speaker 1: provided for him. I said, I think the fine for

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Speaker 1: having of trying to get on a plane with a

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Speaker 1: loaded pistol you didn't know you had should be that

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Speaker 1: you get shot with the pistol. Sounds right somewhere you

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Speaker 1: can pick where, you pick where, but that's the fine

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Speaker 1: as you get shot by it. And wasn't your fuel

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Speaker 1: and check luggage like not? Yeah? So, uh, we're flying

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Speaker 1: home from a trip and one of the one of

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Speaker 1: you know, we just like checked all the gear and

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Speaker 1: also one of our guys they paid them to come

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Speaker 1: down security. So it goes down to security to the

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Speaker 1: t s A dudes and they're like, hey, we found

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Speaker 1: this fuel can in your bag and he's like, oh sorry, man,

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Speaker 1: you know, just go ahead and throw it out, you know,

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Speaker 1: definitely don't need it. Cool. And then some period of

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Speaker 1: time goes by and all of a sudden, here's this

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Speaker 1: big stack of paperwork with that fine. Right. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: my buddy that tried to bring his pistols loaded pistol

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Speaker 1: line to the airplane, I think it was all said,

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Speaker 1: and don't old a thousand dollars, right, and that was

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Speaker 1: gonna go like in the cabin with him. He didn't

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Speaker 1: lose his pistol and we lost our field can injustice Anyways,

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Speaker 1: Astley from Austin writes in what got me on that?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah why you carry? Why? Why like bassline if

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Speaker 1: you're traveling person. She was saying that, uh, she had

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Speaker 1: this is interesting piece of feedback. She didn't have cotton balls,

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Speaker 1: but she had tampons and vassilen and to start a fire.

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Speaker 1: Took that tampon material kind of like crumpled it up,

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Speaker 1: put vassilan on there, and she says it's a phenomenal

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Speaker 1: fire starter. Think of that. Whatever works. Uh. We talked

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Speaker 1: recently on the episode where a guy was saying that

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Speaker 1: see a long time ago to talking about how people

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Speaker 1: how cabella is a bass Pro shop, which is the

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Speaker 1: same thing now and it is bought Sports's warehouse right, No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't hear that. I heard at Yeah they did,

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Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, So like bass Pro bought Cabela's and

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Speaker 1: that entity bought sports in his warehouse. So if you're

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Speaker 1: like walking into a sporting good stores probably all by

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Speaker 1: the same mugs. Um. We got to talk about when

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Speaker 1: people sell like where's all that taxi durn you come from?

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Speaker 1: Like you know you're going to a bass Pro or whatever.

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Speaker 1: They sometimes had these massive dioramas of you know, he's

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Speaker 1: sort of like stuffed menagerie's. And we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: market of of when you get like an exceptional specimen

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Speaker 1: of an animal, the market of selling it to to

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Speaker 1: wind up in these things. How people can make that

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Speaker 1: might be if if bitcoin doesn't work out for you, Chester,

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Speaker 1: you might get that Walleye boat by shooting giant stuff

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Speaker 1: and selling the sporting good stores. Well, I'll have to

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Speaker 1: get out hunting and actually kill something I set in

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Speaker 1: my game off. So this guy was saying that one

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Speaker 1: of these the Cabella's offered his old man seventy grand

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Speaker 1: for an l buino porcupine, And uh, I think that

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Speaker 1: someone expressed even the idea that they weren't even buying it,

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Speaker 1: even the existence of the porcupine, and he sent in

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Speaker 1: and it's damn sure it looks like an albino porcupine

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Speaker 1: to me. Or do you think Kevin Murphy cutest little

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Speaker 1: porcupine I've ever seen? I've seen a few porcupins, my

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Speaker 1: dogs have tangled and laws for the porkeypins. You ever

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Speaker 1: seen an al buyo porcupine? Never heard of one cutest

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Speaker 1: damn animal on the planet. Never heard that little guy.

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Speaker 1: He's pretty cute, super cute. Here he is chewing on

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Speaker 1: an antler. Now Seth is gonna report on this, which

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Speaker 1: is this is an insane This is one of the

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Speaker 1: most upsetting things I've looked at and forever. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's like, I hate looking at it. I think

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Speaker 1: that someone you know, what, do you want to put

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Speaker 1: it on your Instagram so the people can go see

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Speaker 1: for themselves? Yeah? Okay, so so you gotta you gotta,

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Speaker 1: you gotta realize you're making the commitment here and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna let people down. What do you mean if you

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Speaker 1: don't do it? Yeah, I'll put it on my highlights

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Speaker 1: where I put all the stuff. Put it on the

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Speaker 1: main thing or not at all? Can't you do both?

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Speaker 1: You should put it on yours because more people will

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Speaker 1: see it, Okay, And I I have a certain certain

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Speaker 1: aesthetic I keep with my Instagram. They explain that to me. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you look at my Instagram, explain it's all high

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Speaker 1: quality photos that are it's all fine art. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to put some hairy asked eyeball, dear, No,

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Speaker 1: not unless I took a picture of it and fine

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Speaker 1: art style. I'll put it on mind. Go ahead and

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Speaker 1: tell everybody what's going on. It's it's one of the

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Speaker 1: more upsetting things. I will have it. I guarant d

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Speaker 1: amn t. I'm sending a note about this right now.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, everybody about It's a deer that has I

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Speaker 1: believe it's pronounced corneal Dermoid's like yeah, So there was

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Speaker 1: an individual that, uh or there was someone that saw

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Speaker 1: this deer and reported that it was like the deer

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Speaker 1: was circling, it was make going in circles. It had

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Speaker 1: visible bleeding, lacked awareness of people around it, and had

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Speaker 1: something on its eyes. It turned out to be this

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Speaker 1: corneal dermoid. And what it is, it's like a abnormal

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Speaker 1: growth of skin and hair follicles on areas where skin

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Speaker 1: and hair follicles don't grow and just happened to grow

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Speaker 1: over its cornea to gradually. Have you seen this mike

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Speaker 1: to gradually where if you look at this picture, it's

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Speaker 1: a buck and where you'd expect his eyeball to be

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Speaker 1: like not as eye, but what's the part in the

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Speaker 1: middle of your eyeball, your corna, that's the part that

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Speaker 1: you say, like you have blue eyes. Whatever that's we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, I think so, yeah, is hair, Yeah, gradually, gradually,

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Speaker 1: gradually it grew into where he eventually became blind and

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Speaker 1: he has a hairy Harry eyeball, a harry eyeball developmental

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Speaker 1: glitch where the corny a tissue fails to form and

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Speaker 1: it defaults the skin. If you get it, because the

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Speaker 1: mug get it. Yeah, limbal dermoiden hair shafts over your eyeball.

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Speaker 1: You people out there, Yeah, yeah, Oh, I wonder how

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Speaker 1: like I wonder how often that happens or has happened before. Well,

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Speaker 1: Karin included. Karin included, if you go down, there's a

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Speaker 1: dude's eyeball who's got hair growing out. That book looks

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Speaker 1: pretty young? Was that book? Born with included a fair

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Speaker 1: a bunch of ex dreamly disturbing photos. Doesn't say if

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Speaker 1: it was born with it or not. I'm interested in that, right,

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Speaker 1: like if it if it's onset, wants the animals got

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Speaker 1: some age to it, or if it's born with I

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Speaker 1: would think it it's onset because there's no way a deer.

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Speaker 1: I mean this. You can tell in this photo that

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Speaker 1: the buck has antler growth, so it's probably least a

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Speaker 1: year old. I don't think a deer that's a year

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Speaker 1: could survive in the wild a whole year being blind.

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Speaker 1: But that's just one eye, I said both eyes. I

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Speaker 1: think the other thing it said it was both eyes.

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Speaker 1: Didn't say it was both eyes yet. Yeah, even a

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Speaker 1: blind horrible fund every now and then, that's true. You guts.

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Speaker 1: Check out this deal with the person in the feeding

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Speaker 1: the grizzly Barris, you know the story in Grand Seaton. Nope,

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Speaker 1: So a bunch of people sent this into us. Some

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Speaker 1: more like there's a neighborhoods, there's a there's a subdivision

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Speaker 1: and it's called the Solitude Subdivision a Grand Tetown, Wyoming, Okay,

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Speaker 1: And some neighbors report this lady for feeding grizzly bears.

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Speaker 1: And you know that famous like there's that famous grizzly.

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Speaker 1: A little bit, it's problematic that we have a famous grizzly,

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Speaker 1: but like there's like like this three grizzly grizzly number

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Speaker 1: three nine nine. She's like spend her whole life out

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Speaker 1: now she hangs out in town and everybody's all worked up.

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Speaker 1: This bear has all this offspring, and these offspring are

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Speaker 1: all eaten in this lady's backyard. So they got to

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Speaker 1: talk to her, be like, you're feeding bears. She's very

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Speaker 1: excited about the fact that the bears are here. She

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Speaker 1: explains that she has an aura that allows her to

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Speaker 1: communicate with bears and that prevents her from being hurt

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Speaker 1: by bears. And she's feeding many grizzlies in her yard

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Speaker 1: grain soaked and molasses. But you are allowed to feed moose,

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Speaker 1: so all she has to they're not prosecuting her because

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Speaker 1: she says, I'm feeding moose. It's not my fault that

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Speaker 1: all these grizzlies are in my yard. And while they're

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Speaker 1: standing there, the agents that come visitor, they're staying there.

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Speaker 1: There's five grizzlies eating off her back porch. But they're saying,

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Speaker 1: that's not we gonna do because she's feeding moose. Difficult

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Speaker 1: time prosecutor sounds like, sounds like they need to go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Yet it sounds like that one guy who got killed

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Speaker 1: in Alaska kind of um he wasn't feeding him, was

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Speaker 1: a badass though Timothy treadwell, yeah, he don't camp anyone

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Speaker 1: in this room. Why do they need to change the rule.

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Speaker 1: They you shouldn't be allowed to feed anything yell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's the whole thing. In a a while, like what

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Speaker 1: they're feeding their elk, feeding elk and deer feeding stations.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they've created this weird problem. And I know

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Speaker 1: cal has talked about this quite a bit. Is they

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Speaker 1: At a time, you know, hunters wanted more game right

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Speaker 1: in Wylming, like people wanted a big, healthy elk hirt

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Speaker 1: and me too, write so people wanted a lot of elk,

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Speaker 1: and having a lot of elk and wyloming as elsewhere

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Speaker 1: would cause the enormous amount of strife with agricultural interests,

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Speaker 1: right because where they gonna all go, So they live

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Speaker 1: up in the mountains in the winter or in the summer,

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Speaker 1: winter comes, they come down in the big riparian areas

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Speaker 1: and there on cattle grazing lands. They're ingrained, they're they're

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Speaker 1: on crop lands doing all kinds of damage. So at

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Speaker 1: a time, people did this, you know calculus in their

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Speaker 1: heads that were if we're gonna have herds of tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of elk in these areas, um, and we

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a huge problem for landowners. We

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Speaker 1: need to find something to do. And so they fell

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Speaker 1: into the habit of feeding, making feeding grounds and to

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Speaker 1: to support what some people claim is like a artificially

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Speaker 1: high number of elk. They feed ungulates through the winter.

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Speaker 1: The surrounding states don't, but they do, and they're staying

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Speaker 1: true to it. What's finally drawing it into question now

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Speaker 1: is like c w D transmission, where you got from

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Speaker 1: hundreds of square miles. You have a magnet that sucks

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Speaker 1: all those deer and elkin, and so they stand around

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Speaker 1: in groups of thousands for the whole winter eating feed.

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Speaker 1: So it's legal defeat. It's legal to feed. And this

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Speaker 1: woman here is is taking advantage up with grizzlies, which

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Speaker 1: is really weird. And then when they pointed out to

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Speaker 1: whether it's dangerous, she accused the agents of being quote whimps.

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Speaker 1: They cloned a blackfooted ferret, the first US and Dangers species,

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Speaker 1: black footed ferret. They had a specimen um that died

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, and people are just getting into you know,

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Speaker 1: people are starting to realize the potential around genetics, and

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Speaker 1: they froze this ferret and the US So the US

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Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service is raising a black footed ferret

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Speaker 1: in Fort Collins, Colorado that is a genetic copy of

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Speaker 1: a ferret named Willa who died. Think of that. I

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Speaker 1: think I like the name. I think Will is a

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Speaker 1: cool name. But they'd be good name for a daughter.

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Speaker 1: Actually was one of our plans if we had a girl. Ye,

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Speaker 1: we're having a boy instead. What do you name that boy?

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Speaker 1: I don't know yet. Cody Hunter. I don't think either

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Speaker 1: of those. You're not gonna name a Cody or Hunter. Dude,

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Speaker 1: everybody names their kids Cody and Hunter. No, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's amazing to use, you know, technology like that

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Speaker 1: to clone an animal that's that's gone, to try to

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Speaker 1: bring some genetics back into the existing population. Yeah, it's like,

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Speaker 1: but we we had a we had a if you

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Speaker 1: go way back in our library, we had an episode

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Speaker 1: called Cloning Mammoths. I think, Yeah, I remember with a

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Speaker 1: with the ancient genetics you know, DNA specialists, and she

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Speaker 1: kind of explained what they're really getting at, um some

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Speaker 1: of the some of like the the ethical and practical limitations,

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Speaker 1: because the real I think the thing everybody's aiming for

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Speaker 1: is that you would, um that we would bring back

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Speaker 1: the passenger pigeon, right ah, And people point out that

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Speaker 1: what makes the animal okay? So pastor pigres are the

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Speaker 1: things that were in flocks of millions, you know, and

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Speaker 1: if you made one and had one, you could like

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Speaker 1: put it in a cage and be like, that's a

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Speaker 1: past your pigeons, Like is it do? I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: is it really you know, does it qualify as a

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Speaker 1: passenger pigeon? Like would you ever be able to bring

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Speaker 1: that back? Right? But but I think in this situation

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Speaker 1: with ferrets, what you're talking about is an existing population

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Speaker 1: of endangered ferrets that there's active conservation work going on

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Speaker 1: to try to bring them back on the landscape. Right.

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Speaker 1: And then you have are you know, a ferret from

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Speaker 1: not all that long ago, but that is very likely

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Speaker 1: different or hold some genetic diversity that no longer exists

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Speaker 1: in ferrets. And I don't know this for certain, but

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Speaker 1: I could demand. I'm guessing it has to do with diversity.

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Speaker 1: And and so you're not you're not really trying to

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Speaker 1: you're not trying to take that one ferret and repopulate

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Speaker 1: North America, you know, the planes with ferrets, you're trying

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Speaker 1: to capture something that was essentially lost that could potentially

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Speaker 1: ring genetic diversity back into those populations. Yeah, we've talked,

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Speaker 1: we've we've covered this a little bit. For the blackfooted

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Speaker 1: ferrets are what's called Lazarus or what's known as a

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Speaker 1: Lazarus species, like Lazarus from was Lazarus in the Old

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Speaker 1: Testament the New Testament I think, oh Man. Anyways, in

422
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: the Bible, there's a fellow named Lazarus who comes back

423
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: from the dead, and the blackfooted ferret is a Lazarus species.

424
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: People thought at a time that we had we humans

425
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: had wiped them off the face of the earth. And

426
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: as the story goes, uh, one day a rancher and

427
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: Matitzi Wyoming sees his dog carrying something unusual, and it

428
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: was a black footed ferret, and they found the prairie

429
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: dog colony that was supporting this black footed ferret and

430
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: that in fact, they were not on right. And so

431
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: from that, though right, you can imagine how narrow the

432
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: potentially the genetic diversity of that species could have gotten.

433
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: And you know, again I don't I don't know anything

434
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: about faret conservation, but I can imagine from other things

435
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: I know more about that being able to go back

436
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: in time and and grab some genetic material from an

437
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: individual that was you know, it's been gone for a

438
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: long time now, and bringing that forward in order to

439
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: incorporate you know, in the captive bringing or you know,

440
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: even into the wild could really be of a lot

441
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: of value. Yeah. Did I sound like I'm down on this? No,

442
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm super into it. Just that it's not just it's

443
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: very different than saying like, oh, we're gonna bring back

444
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: passenger pigeons, right, yeah, they're gone. If you know, if

445
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: you had millions of specimens with you know, well preserved DNA,

446
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: would you potentially clone each individual that you have out

447
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: there and end up with millions of paste your pigeons

448
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: and somehow maybe I'm right, not likely, but different than

449
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: something that they're actively working on. Uh. When we talked

450
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: about the passenger pigeon thing, it's interesting to get into

451
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: this idea of what is the public's appetite. Like, let's say,

452
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: because the last passenger pigeon to die I think died

453
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: in or something. I know his name is Martha. I

454
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: know it died in the Cincinnati Zoo, it would be weird,

455
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: Like it's funny to think about that there was um

456
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: that people knew it was the last one. This is it. Yeah,

457
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: you could go to this zoo and they'd be like

458
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: that right, there is the last passenger pigeon. When she dies,

459
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: that species comes to an end. Maybe she died in

460
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: one when you boys figure that out. So they're just

461
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: sitting there. I just google the lazar a New Testament,

462
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: New Testament, Thank you. Um. Anyways, they blink out right,

463
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: and let's say you could uh, let's say you you

464
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: were able to get them, make new ones, okay, and

465
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: propagate them, and you had some plan where we're gonna

466
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: be like no, no, no, we're gonna reintroduce and there

467
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: will be flocks of millions of passenger pigeons that will

468
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: descend onto your crop field. How does everybody feel about this? Fourteen?

469
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: What did I say? Not that one? I was thinking

470
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: like passed away September one, nine fourteen. Good job. Um.

471
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: That would be an interesting test of public will because

472
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: people don't be inconvenienced by wildlife generally. You know, it

473
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: would be a hard sell for people. Some people. Some

474
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: people will be like, I would like it from a

475
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: hunting perspective, but I think you would probably encounter a

476
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: fair bit of resistance if you were really going to

477
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, and you may encounter some ecological drivers

478
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: that would be hurdles. To it as well. I mean

479
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: it's you know, the landscape things have probably changed quite

480
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: a bit since they were really at their peak. And

481
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: I you know, I've often heard over hunting cited as

482
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: a reason for their demise, but you know that it

483
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: was a different world and right the late eighteen hundreds

484
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: when they were really starting to client. So who who

485
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: knows if the ecological conditions still exists too, you know,

486
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: would still exist to recover. I think the last big

487
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: shoot I've read this sponge. I think the last big

488
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: slaughter was around Alpina, Michigan. Interesting, was one of the

489
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: last places where they really got on and shot, you know, right,

490
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands or millions of them was in Michigan.

491
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: And they would descend when trees were when mass producing

492
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: trees were coming in. They would just descend and strip

493
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: the trees. And people discussed, like so many landing on

494
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: branches of trees at the trees, branches would be snapping. Geez,

495
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: it's crazy. And I've also read that it was Some

496
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: people point out that it was probably that those huge

497
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: numbers were probably not hadn't always been that way, but

498
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: it was like some perfect storm of decimation of other

499
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: wildlife agricultural practices at the time, and maybe it made

500
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: this sort of image that that's what it's like, or

501
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: like that that's what it's supposed to be like, but

502
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: in fact was a complete anomaly to have those explosive

503
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: numbers of those Well, yeah, and that's part of what

504
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I mean, right it is think about eastern four you

505
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: know that the timber harvests that happened through the ninete hundreds,

506
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: like in Pennsylvania, you know, completely change those forests from

507
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: was it white pine dominated seth anyway from from you know,

508
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: coniferous forests. Oh, Kevin, that's really messing up the sound.

509
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: No change those forests changed from coniferous forests the deciduous forest,

510
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: just based on timber harvests that happened all across Pennsylvania.

511
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: And then also consider what's you know, like what happened

512
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: with chestnut, right, chestnut blake came in Chessnut were predominant

513
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,479
Speaker 1: species all up and down the East coast, and chestnut

514
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: blake completely wiped him out. And so again I don't

515
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: know anything about the ecology or natural history of passing

516
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: your pinions, but you could imagine a situation where those

517
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, they played something like that that has complete

518
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: change now played some key role in their ecology and

519
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: it just wouldn't be around anymore. Yeah, that's why I

520
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: think that the I think that the blackfooted ferret is

521
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: a prime specimen for rehabilitation because you have we still

522
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: have massive pray dog colonies that people spend a lot

523
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: of money trying to control, but they control it with poison.

524
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: Still it's weird, like as much as we hear about

525
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: and the old that that that you know, during like

526
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: the periods of predator annihilation in the late eighteen hunters

527
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: and early that they were you know, indiscriminately poisoning carcasses

528
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: to kill foxes, coyoes, wolves, whatever, mountain lions, bears to

529
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: sort of like depopulate predators. Was all through poisoning campaigns.

530
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: Um it's still used pray dogs. Like you go out

531
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: and seed prairie dog colonies with poison pellets, and that's

532
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: what's credited with killing off black footed ferrets is they're

533
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: getting there they're eating poisoned prairie dogs. But it's interesting

534
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: to think, like here, you have this surplus of food

535
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: that's available if you can get these things on there,

536
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: and then somehow prevent them from but then not use

537
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: poison control which were then turned around and kill the

538
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: black footed ferret. But I don't know if black footed

539
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: farets ever are effective enough to like actually control pray

540
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: dog populations, because when you read historical accounts like the

541
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: entire great planes of the praye dog colony, Yeah, it's

542
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: not like they were killing them off. Yeah, to be clear,

543
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: way out of my depth. Oh no, you don't. You

544
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: don't need to test, you don't need to be given

545
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: expert testimony. But I'll tell you this that you guys

546
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: brought up Pennsylvania. This is a good thing from Pennsylvania.

547
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: We had an arborist. We had this squirrel guy on

548
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: the episode was called the squirrel Doctors in he's a

549
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: squirrel doctor um, like a PhD in squirrels um. And

550
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: he talked a lot about how they're so good at

551
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 1: not dying when they fall from trees. And an arborist

552
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: wrote in Western Pennsylvania Arborist, he was saying he has

553
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: seen realistically fifty squirrels jump out of trees over seventy high,

554
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: some out of a hundred foot trees. He said that

555
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: three out of four that he's seen this is when

556
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: he's ascending a tree to prune it and bust squirrel out.

557
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: Squirrel can't come down because he's in it. He said.

558
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: Three out of four of them hit the grass, bounce

559
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: three ft in the air and land running. He had

560
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: a fox squirrel one time jump eighty ft and he

561
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: said there was a two inch or two ft diameter

562
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: puddle of water. A fox squirrel jumped eighty feet and

563
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: hit that water pool like it was He said it

564
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: was like it was aiming for it. But he says

565
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: an hard time. He was not in a tree. He

566
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: was just sitting in a driveway mine in his own

567
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: business in a car, and he sees a fox squirrel

568
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: fall out of a tree and hit a phone line

569
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: ten ft from the ground, died right before his eyes.

570
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: He then another squirrel came down, full grown squirrel, halfed

571
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: it up his dead friend and carried him back up

572
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: into the tree. What I witness account? That's crazy. It's

573
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: good friend. I see him for just I've been walking

574
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: through the woods and just squirrel hits the ground like

575
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: it must have just fell out, just hits the ground,

576
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: takes off round. No, yeah, I've definitely seen where they

577
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: just come out and in uh iguanas or inexplicably fall

578
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: from trees when it now when it gets to you

579
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: know what if you see this like now when they

580
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: get it gets super cold, you know they got the

581
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: invasive iguanas in Florida during that big cold snap that

582
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: just happened, they had to put out warnings about falling iguanas.

583
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: No ship. Yeah, yeah, imagine you mess you up. But

584
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: when just in Arkansas we found I told about we

585
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: canna tell you about this mic rule and we're just

586
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: an Arkansas. We found a lot of birds that it

587
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: froze to death during that cold snap. One day, we

588
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: found three froze to death woodpeckers in one day, just

589
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: not a mark on them. It looked like a live woodpecker,

590
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: but it was dead laying on the forest floor. Mike,

591
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: we had a big bird guy off here in your Mexico.

592
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: Do you recall what that was it was from? Was

593
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: it the cold spell? Was it trout? My understanding was

594
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: that it was it was mostly cold. Was that I

595
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: think it was that October It was a cold snap

596
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: earlier this year. Those birds didn't have a lot of

597
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: fat on him, I think was what I heard. And uh,

598
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: they died of exposure. They had a way to go

599
00:38:47,520 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: for a bird. So we're recording right now in um

600
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: how how it doesn't matter. We're indemning New Mexico and

601
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: we're down here because I had a stellar year on

602
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: my permit draw, to say the least. Now, listen, here's

603
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: the thing. A lot of people are like, oh yeah,

604
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: they give you special treatment because like you have a

605
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: TV show, so you get all these permit draws. Listen,

606
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: I apply for everything in every state, Okay. I apply

607
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: for everything in every state, and every year like you

608
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: get something, but I'm applying for everything in every state.

609
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: You know, like this year in Alaska drew nothing. Last

610
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: year in Alaska drew nothing. Okay, but I just so

611
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: happened to hit not even know if it's statics. You

612
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: guys can tell me how extraordinary it is. I happened

613
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: to in one year in New Mexico draw and what's

614
00:39:52,680 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: called an off range orics tag and drew a female

615
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: or immature billy ibex tag all in one fell swoop

616
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: one year draw. The New Mexico doesn't do bonus points,

617
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: and and we've explained hundreds thousand times, but bonus points

618
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: are like if you apply for a permit and don't

619
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: get it, they sort of reward you as a repeat

620
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: customer by giving you like a point, and then your

621
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: name goes into the hat basically like your name goes

622
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: into had an additional time the next year, and it's

623
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: like it kind of like baits you in to keep

624
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: you active. New Mexico doesn't engage in that. So I

625
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: could be applying for an ORCS tag for fifty years

626
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: and some whipper snapper comes in and applies for his

627
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: first time, and the fifty year veteran and the whipper

628
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: snapper have the exact same odds of drawn the ORCS tag.

629
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: But I had put in for quite a few years

630
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: for an ORCS tag, but drew the ORCS tag off range.

631
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: And we talked about this in the past, and it's

632
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: it's that on range means White Sands missile range, and

633
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: off range means the rest of the damn state. The

634
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: IBEX tag that I drew is for the Florida, not

635
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: Florida with the Florida mountains, and which you New Mexicans

636
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: wants to talk through, Uh, how this came to be,

637
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: Why this is a thing, Why IBEX hunting is a thing,

638
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: like how like how who? Well, Jeremy, can you say

639
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: where you work or you have to not you have

640
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: to tell Yeah, I work for the National Wildlife Federation

641
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: on the Regional Connectivity Coordinator. See that, Mike, It just

642
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: comes right out and says it. Try to act like

643
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: he's in the CIA. I know af you but yeah,

644
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, going back to but but you

645
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: know what before you do that, tell people more about

646
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: what you're about your work? Well, UM, I work mostly

647
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: on on landscape wildlife connectivity issues across the West, So

648
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: looking at landscapes and how well connected they are UM

649
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: most folks, you know, one of the best ways to

650
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: describe that and put that in a perspective is through

651
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: the lens of migration corridors, so ungulate migration corridors, you know,

652
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: looking at that landscape and how well connected it is.

653
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: One of the first measures you can do to look

654
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: at how well a landscape connect is connected is by

655
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: looking at the barriers right, so roads, fences, urban development,

656
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: things that can impede and service barriers to to movement

657
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: of wildlife and ensuring that landscapes UM stay connected. So

658
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: a lot of my work is working with UM multiple stakeholders. Right,

659
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: wildlife no no boundaries for the most part. So when

660
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: wildlife are migrating across jurisdictional boundaries, it's important to work

661
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: with those both those multiple engaged stakeholders, from tribes to

662
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: private land owners to UH federal agents, land management agencies,

663
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: state wildlife agencies. You know, it's it's important for folks

664
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: to be on the same page and to manage cordinally

665
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: for those species, because we want to make sure they're

666
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: they're around right. We don't want them be having these

667
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: conversations about al camilder that we're having about black for

668
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: the ferrets and passenger pist You know, we're close after

669
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: the border. You can see the surveillance blimp. Right do

670
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: you work when you're doing connectivity stuff? Are you working

671
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: with Mexico as well? So I'm I'm not as far

672
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: south in New Mexico. UM, so I don't really work

673
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: with Mexico, but I do have colleagues who do, and

674
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: they do things like a black bear, um cougar, also birds.

675
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: They do a lot of avian species of migration. I know.

676
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: I think montezoomc quail is is a is a species

677
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: of hot topic there at the border. But for the

678
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: most part, I have not been focusing most of my

679
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: work on on wildlife boarder issues. I do the people

680
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: that do work on the um connectivity issues across the border,

681
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: they've probably been spending their recent years like focused on

682
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: one thing, which is the border wall. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean,

683
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: as I was mentioning, right, like barriers, barriers to movement,

684
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: there's no bigger barrier than a border wall. Yeah. It

685
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: was funny about that too. Is most of barriers you

686
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: talk about and you talk about wildlife migrations are things

687
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: that are sort of like accidentally a barrier, Like no

688
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: one like it is like, let's put it in a highway.

689
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: That would be a good barrier. It's like, let's put

690
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: it in a highway because it's sweet because you can

691
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: drive around real good. And then someone later is like, oh, ship,

692
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: it's a big barrier. But there you're like, let's make

693
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: a barrier. It's very purpose built. It's it's well distinguished. Um,

694
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: there's there's purpose behind it. Um. You know. During the

695
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: construction of the border wall, I think there was a

696
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: lot of controversy to those exact issues on what they

697
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: would do to the ecological state of that landscape and

698
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: providing for a well connected landscape for various species, um,

699
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, and and the arguments still out there, I

700
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: think I think it's safe to say that it was.

701
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: The border wall has been pretty invasive in those landscapes

702
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: where where they have been constructing it, And so I

703
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: would go as far as saying that, you know, when

704
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: you do something of that magnitude, there is going to

705
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: be consequences that there are going to be repercussions in

706
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: some way, shape or forman um. You know, sometimes the

707
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: wildlife are the ones who are are the recipients of that. Yeah,

708
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: I know, I know that. Like I'm I'm talking about

709
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm talking. This is me talking right now. This is

710
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: not Jeremy talking like I'm I'm going to talk now.

711
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: And I don't want you to be guilty, guilty by association.

712
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: But the thing that it's so funny I found with

713
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: people and talk about the border wall is people that

714
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: support that want a wall are very uneasy if you

715
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: bring up, if you even point out a problem with it,

716
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: they want to act like that doesn't exist. You could

717
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: still look and be like no, no, I like all

718
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: things considered, all things factored in, I'd still like the wall,

719
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: but they get I rate, if you suggest what the

720
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: implications would be for wildlife, it's like they get mad

721
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: that you bring it up instead, like I would imagine

722
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: you would take the approach of, oh, yes, totally, I

723
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: understand this is a big problem for wildlife, but my

724
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: I'm giving priority to the human issues, to the economic issues,

725
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: and even though it's not ideal for wildlife, I'm still

726
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: deciding to support it. But people aren't, like they don't

727
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: look at it that way, like if you bring it up,

728
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: you're a bad person to bring it up, which is

729
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: sort of emblematic of a general reluctance to sort of

730
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: general reluctance these days to just to like discuss and

731
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: debate things and consider them in their totality. I mean,

732
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: it's been really like I've had people get so if

733
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: we run articles or post articles about wildlife issues in

734
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: the border wall, people just get piste, Well, it's a

735
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: political issue too, right, Um. There's there's a lot to

736
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: that argument, and I would I would think about it

737
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: as as the new border wall that's been constructed. There

738
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: was a border wall there before or right, um, and

739
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: that didn't prevent a lot of things from happening, and

740
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: even with the new border wall, things are still happening, right, Um,

741
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: I think I just I just read an article the

742
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: other day about a suv carrying I think it was

743
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 1: twenty passengers that wrecked on the highway and they got

744
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: through a hole in the border wall. So to what

745
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 1: level is creating a border wall? Uh, actually solving the issue? Um?

746
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: And with that comes all those arguments, right yeah? Um?

747
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: And I think, like I do think it's we're talking about.

748
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: But if let's say you point out let's say you're

749
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: planning a family vacation. Okay, you're like, oh, I think

750
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: we should go on family vacation, and someone says, um,

751
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 1: you know, if we go on family vacation, we will

752
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 1: have less money because we'll have spent money on our vacation.

753
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: No one gets mad at that person. Instead, you'd be like, yes, correct,

754
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 1: we will have less money, but the vacation is important.

755
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: We're still going to go on the vacation. Like, you

756
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: don't get pissed at people for bringing up the considerations

757
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: except this, then it's you're you're a bad person to

758
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: bring up It's just it's kind of I know, this

759
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: is like a side pet Peeve, and I do want

760
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: to return to Ibex, but just it remains in my

761
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 1: mind and anytime I'm down here looking at the border,

762
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: I start thinking about it again. I mean, it's it's

763
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: real time here, you know. I mean the border wall

764
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: or is a day to day issue that everyone here

765
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: has to interact with for the most part. Yeah, it

766
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: winds up not being like um, like up in the North,

767
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: you're like, you know, southern border. I mean there's I

768
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: mean there's places on our border where there's not a

769
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: border wall. There hasn't ever been a border wall. All right.

770
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: Back to the Ibex. Well, you know, the Ibex. Ibex

771
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: were introduced in New Mexico and the Florida Mountain Range

772
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: back in the seventies with the whole exotic push that

773
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: our state took, you know, utilizing some of these barren

774
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: landscapes to have hunting opportunity. And in doing so, they

775
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: saw one of the game commissioners at the time, through

776
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: his travels across the world, saw these various species and

777
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: as I as I mentioned on previous Orex talk, um

778
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: he saw um the opportunity to introduce some of these

779
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: exotic species into New Mexico. Right, So, Stevie had the

780
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: opportunity to hunting orix. That was one of the species.

781
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: One of the other ones they tried to introduce was

782
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: also the kudu that that never took um. And then

783
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: they also introduced ibex. Two species of ibex. In fact,

784
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: one was the Siberian ibex that was introduced into the

785
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: Canadian River drainage. Uh folks probably know that as the

786
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: sabiosa wilderness um. And then they also introduced the Persian ibex.

787
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: People also call that the Bazaar ibex, and that was

788
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: introduced into the Florida Mountain range. Was this was this

789
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: coming from one individual? Is there like a person who's

790
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: kind of like Johnny apple Seed of exotics was? Yeah,

791
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: I don't recall his name, but he was a state

792
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: game commissioner at the time, and he just saw this opportunity.

793
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: He said, you know, my my home landscape doesn't hold animals,

794
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: and I want to be able to have the same

795
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: opportunities of hunting these exotic animals that I was overseas

796
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: and from what I got from my researches. He worked

797
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: with the other game commissioners to propose the idea. Um.

798
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's obviously. Uh, I think an economic

799
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: driver behind it. You know, if you want to create

800
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: hunting opportunities, and in doing so, they they assess the

801
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: landscape for those species that would seem more appropriate and

802
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: they seem to find them, you know, in New and

803
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: sorry not New Mexico. In New Zealand, there was actually

804
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: committees of people that the focus of the committee was

805
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: to make the fauna similar to Europe's. Interesting it was

806
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,479
Speaker 1: to make it familiar and bring in like red deer

807
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: and you know, all that kind of stuff. So it's

808
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: like it's definitely not um uh, you know, it's not

809
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: like exclusively in New Mexico thing, but it's interesting that

810
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: three things took so well, oh yeah, I mean, you know,

811
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: or x X and other and various other exotic species

812
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: are are not in uton North America, right. You look

813
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: at Texas, there's high fence ranches that have worrix other

814
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: types of ris as well other exotic species. But New

815
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: Mexico is a unique place where we have free ranging

816
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: exotic animals right that are largely on public land, all

817
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: predominantly on public land. The only ones that aren't on

818
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: public land for the most part. You know, you've got

819
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: barbary running around private land, but you also have orris

820
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: on Department of Defense land on the missile range. Other

821
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: than that, most of those most of those exotic species

822
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: are calling public land home. Yeah, Jeremy's coming off of

823
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: an exotic trifecta in one week. One week, I was

824
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to harvest a barbary sheep, and then a

825
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: colleague of ours wife had a once in a lifetime

826
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: RIX hunt on range, and so, uh, last Sunday, Saturday,

827
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: I helped out and was fortunate enough to be a

828
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 1: part of that little excursion where she where my buddy's

829
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: wife harvested her once in a lifetime orix. And then

830
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: I hustled down here to meet you to finish the

831
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 1: trifecta for Jason Persian ibex. Uh, get into a little

832
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: bit about how many of those, like how many ibex

833
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: came to be in this mountain range, and what conversations

834
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: had to come out about, you know where where other

835
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: interested parties started have an opinion about this, because it's

836
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: it's like an interesting thing that you see time and

837
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: again with with wildlife politics. And yeah, yeah, so let's

838
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: let's take it back to kind of the initial reintroduction.

839
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 1: So New Mexico is a state where you cannot introduce

840
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: animals from outside of the state onto the public land right,

841
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: So in order for the state too introduce Persian ibex

842
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: or x Siberian ibex, they had to do they had

843
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: to reintroduce their or introduce their progeny. So a lot

844
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: of these animals when they were brought to New Mexico,

845
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: they were held in holding facilities long enough to have progeny.

846
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: Once that progeny was old enough, then they introduced them

847
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: into these different landscapes. So for ibex, for example, UM,

848
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: I think the total number was give or take forty

849
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: ibex that were introduced on onto the Florida Mountains. And

850
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: since then that population rapidly expanded. Um I think within

851
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: I think it was within four years of the initial

852
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: introduction they were offering hunting opportunities on the Florida. Yeah.

853
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: I want to give people some idea that when we

854
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: talk about the Florida Mountains, um, when you go to

855
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: download a map on on X, people are famliar with

856
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: on actual note that when you go to download a

857
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: map for offline use, you can download a map ten

858
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: miles wide, Okay, and it's taller than it is. Why

859
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: it's ten miles wide, and normal you're going to hang

860
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,479
Speaker 1: out somewhere, you wind up. I usually wind up taking

861
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: the center of my activities, and I'll download four and

862
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 1: I'll use that as like the center point, and I'll

863
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,760
Speaker 1: do like a square, a square, square, and a square,

864
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: and they all meet at that middle point, and that's

865
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: what I'll do to get the area I'm gonna be in. Well,

866
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was just to give a sense of

867
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: scale here. When I went to download a map for

868
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: this hunting trip, I put the center of the Florida

869
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: Mountains on the center of the ten mile square map

870
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: and it fits very elegantly top the bottom, side to side.

871
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: It was like, and I had a good buffer of

872
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: flat desert, but it's like a stunning pile of cliffs

873
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: that just rise up out of the desert. Man, I mean,

874
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: like the jaggedy It's like it's like a weird, sort

875
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: of crazy castle constructed out in the middle of the desert. Yeah.

876
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 1: I think I think we figured when we were sitting

877
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: on the top of that mountain that we were gaining

878
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: somewhere of three thousand feet in elevation as we were

879
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: climbing going about a mile, going about a mile, give

880
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: or take incredibly steve mostly rock five five five miles

881
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: wide on that Onyx map and three thousand feet tall.

882
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's it's like it came out

883
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: of nowhere, and that mountain range is just straight up

884
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's an unforgiving it's basically a

885
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: granite face with sheer cliffs. Everything there cuts and tears

886
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: up your boots, pokes you, stabs you, cuts you. It's

887
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: just a unforgiving landscape that Ibex just looked right at home, right,

888
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's funny because there's no one, there's no

889
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: North American animals that would do it quite like they

890
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: do it. In terms of living on cliff face. Yeah,

891
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: I don't think there's an order basically eating gravel. Yeah,

892
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 1: basically eating gravel. And I mean I've seen I've seen

893
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: Ibex on a two hundred foot cliff eating just the

894
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: tiniest little bush possible. And you're wondering, you're you know,

895
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: you're asking yourself looking two d feet below where all

896
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: the vegetation is. What I that animals standing two hundred

897
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: feet up the cliff just well, that's what ibex do

898
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: that they walk around the cliff face, like to walk

899
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: on vertical cliff faces. And then when uh so, perfect

900
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: kind of little spot for them and they don't men there,

901
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: and what happens They put forty in and it just

902
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: blows up. So they put forty in. It blew up.

903
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: As I was saying, you know, within I think four

904
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: years they were offering hunting opportunities. And then you know,

905
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: when it comes to how many years, I think it

906
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: was within four years of the population being introduced, they

907
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: were they were already opening up hunts. And that's a

908
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: pretty impressive growth, it is, I mean, And to put

909
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: that in a perspective when ibex, when ibex have kids, right,

910
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: Billy's nanni's kids are called kids. It's common for nannies

911
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: to have twins and sometimes triplets. So you can imagine

912
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: how quick that population, if it's not being if it's

913
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 1: not being managed through through hunting opportunities, how quick it

914
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: can can explode. And the topography isn't really conducive for

915
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: anything outside of a mountain lion. Yeah, I mean, you know,

916
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: lions and ibex, anything anything you need to run down

917
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: its prey isn't gonna kill anything, right, No, I mean

918
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: occasionally we'd see the old cotton tail ground squirrel up there,

919
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: but other than that, you know, lions and ibex seemed

920
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: to feel right at home there, and it blew so.

921
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: At a point though, someone points out that like the

922
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: land management agents and points out that, man, you've got

923
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: too many these damn things running. Yeah, yeah, the the

924
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, the BLM, and I'm sure with coordination with

925
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: the game and Fish determined that the carrying capacity for

926
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: that mountain is about needs to be around four hundred

927
00:57:54,760 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: and so, realizing through through various surveys that that numbers

928
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: was well above the carrying capacity of four animals, they

929
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: started to increase the hunting opportunities to control that population.

930
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: And so um previous to the top the tag that

931
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: you draw drew the immature male female tag, there were

932
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: hunting opportunities, population management hunts where folks could come in

933
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: and harvest too, nannies, um and it and might correct

934
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that that was probably over a

935
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 1: five seven year, seven year span. And I got another

936
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: question from Mike the real quide yet Yeah, I don't

937
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: know that Mike would have any exposure into this, but

938
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: do you have a sense Mike, how they count the ibex. Well, yeah,

939
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: I know how to count the I know some people

940
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: who well, well, before before the bound you sleep with

941
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: one of them. So counting and quantifying the number of

942
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: ibex on the landscape was has been described. Yea, this

943
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: is a good quote that's been described. I was watching

944
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: a talk about these exotic species and the big game

945
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: biologists for the new Mexican Apartment game, and Fish does

946
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: a great job. She said. The best way to explain

947
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: to folks on how to count ibex is by taking

948
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: a large barrel of ping pong balls and throwing it

949
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: off a cliff and trying to count every one of

950
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: those ping pong balls is they're bouncing, flying all over

951
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: the place. Damn near impossible. So with that they do

952
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: both aerial surveys with helicopters and ground surveys with lots

953
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 1: of observers around the mountain range. Huh, So they knew

954
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: the aerial part. So you send a bunch of people

955
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: up with vinyls that just try to count ibex. Yeah,

956
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: I just like imagine the glassing spots that we use

957
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: this year basically on you know, for a day or

958
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: two surround the mountain with lots of folks who are

959
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: experienced set at glassing those things up, and it seems

960
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: imperfect because how the skills, like the skill set required

961
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: of glassing up ibex, observer bias, just observer skills that. Yeah, no,

962
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's all survey isn't perfect, right, I mean

963
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: there's no, it's it's you don't get perfect numbers um.

964
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: But what you do build up over time, of course,

965
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: is is count data that as long as things are

966
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: being done in the same way, you get what relative pictures,

967
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: what folks would call an index of abundance. Right, And Mike,

968
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: I think when I when I was watching that talk,

969
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: they had explained that the aerial surveys were good at

970
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: getting an idea of numbers, right, quantifying the amount um.

971
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: The ground surveys were giving a better perspective of sex

972
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: and age. So yeah, I believe that got you. It's

973
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: easier to count running than it is to count IBEX

974
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: running and determine what sex it is, right, and then

975
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: when when, when it got to be there's so many

976
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: ibex they really got serious about trying to kill them off.

977
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: I think that they found that, like the difference in

978
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: a male ibex. But there's difference in a billy and

979
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: a nanny stunning because the billy will throw a up

980
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: to like fifty inch horn and beats considerably larger. When

981
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 1: those billies get mature, they get the old fashioned billy goat, gruff, goatee.

982
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: They get these big, sweeping, you know, up to fifty

983
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: inch horns, and the head they change a completely different color.

984
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: Those those mature billies they get a lot wider. They

985
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: get this big prominent black cross around their chest, in

986
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: their back. And when you see a mature billy there

987
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: on the mountain, you know it's a mature billy. They're

988
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: distinguishably different than the rest. It's got a skull on

989
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: any person would want to put on their book show

990
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: to take a hell of a bookshelf. But I mean

991
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: like an insane looking animal. But then the nanny's are Yeah,

992
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: I think you know, they said no one wants to

993
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: shoot them, so they had to like incentivize people to

994
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: start shooting ibex well, I meaning that like the little

995
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: tag draw thing. Yeah, I don't know if they were

996
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were offering nanny hunts prior

997
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: to focusing on managing the population but in doing so

998
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: to manage the population, they focused on nanny's and immature

999
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: males um and they've I think it's safe to say

1000
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: that they've been pretty effective at knocking down the population

1001
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: to that carrying compassity because when they were when there

1002
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: was a ton of them, they were blowing out into

1003
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: other mountain ranges. Oh yeah, absolutely. When when there was that,

1004
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: when there was that high level of density of IBEX,

1005
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: they were looking for other areas. And so you know,

1006
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: when I was when I was in college, I saw

1007
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: two billies forty miles from the from their range and

1008
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: it's not so that's interesting, right, So billy ibex on range,

1009
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: those are drawing only hunts. Now, being that they want

1010
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: that population centralized on the Florida Mountains, they offer an

1011
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: unlimited IBEX tag for off range anywhere outside of the

1012
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: Florida Mountains. So when I did see those billies, I

1013
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: made a bee line back into town and go get

1014
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: an off range IBEX tag. Came right back out the

1015
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: next day and never found him. How long did you

1016
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: look for him? Probably two and a half weeks. I

1017
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: never could find them, never, never could find them. I

1018
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: your guess is as good as mine. The area I

1019
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: was was just the fact that I even saw them

1020
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: there was unbelievable. It was, you know, flatland country with

1021
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: just this single lava rock mind mound, and on the

1022
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: top there they were. And you know, it's not uncommon

1023
01:03:56,040 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: for for hunters or individuals to see ibex around some

1024
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: of these surrounding mountain ranges right. Um. Every now and

1025
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: then you'll get a hunter who kills a billiard in

1026
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: Annie off the Florida's um and that's that's a feat.

1027
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an accomplishment, right Those they're smaller, hard

1028
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: to find, and so you know, I think two years

1029
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: ago when I did draw the archery tag, um, I

1030
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: feel like there were a lot more ibex just two

1031
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: years ago, two years go. And mind you you know,

1032
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: the archery tag and the rifle tag are different. Archery

1033
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: is is a little at the beginning, so they're not

1034
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: as pressured, so they're probably more spread you know, they're

1035
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: not as spread out as they are um. But from

1036
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: from my experience, I felt like there were a lot

1037
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: more ibex than than this hunt we were on, which

1038
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: which is you know, a testament to the management approach

1039
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: that the Game Department has taken and increasing the the

1040
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: number of tags offered, and hunters have been successful in

1041
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: bringing the you know, the population down. But it's a

1042
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: big mountain, right, I mean four animals like we were

1043
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: talking about on a on a mountain like that. Mind you.

1044
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: You know the on x map high resolution map doesn't

1045
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,919
Speaker 1: put it in a perspective. It covers that whole mountain range,

1046
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: but once you're on that mountain there are crooks and

1047
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: crannies and thick vegetation that could hide a lot of

1048
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: IBEX going into it. I was not inspired by the

1049
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: count number. Once I saw the mountain range and knowing

1050
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: that they're running around in groups, I was like, that's

1051
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: not that. Like if you had four of them, four

1052
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: of them and you told him he's to stay in

1053
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: his own little spot, you know, it would be one thing.

1054
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: But the fact that in groups, I was like, man,

1055
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: that's not that. There's a lot of places that don't

1056
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: have an IBEX. Yeah. I have friends who you know,

1057
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: with probably within the last five years, have seen groups

1058
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: of ibex. Well, you know, fifty to one hundred and

1059
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: one in one group. When you look at it from

1060
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,959
Speaker 1: that perspective to where we're at now, that's it's quarter

1061
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: of the population and one big group. Now, you know,

1062
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't think there's large groups like that at the moment,

1063
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: but but there were, and and it's a it's it's

1064
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 1: a big mountain. I think there's of a lot of

1065
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: places for ibex too to hide. Jeremy layout the season

1066
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: because there's like a bunch of different seasons for these

1067
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: right yeah, so there when can you start unting on? When?

1068
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: And when does like the last season end? So this

1069
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 1: hunt right now is the last. I believe it's in

1070
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: the last hunt, and it's an immature male female female hunt.

1071
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: Now before that, you have opportunities for archery for billy

1072
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: or either sex archery tags or either sex tags. And

1073
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: that's that's the club you belong called. I belong to

1074
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: the percent club because people who draw that archery tag

1075
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: do not fill it and do not get a billy

1076
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: or or an IBEX for that matter. So I am

1077
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: a proud member of the club. And that starts in October.

1078
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: That starts in October, so you have archery hunts for

1079
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: October and January UM and then in between there you

1080
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: have a multitude of one in the lifetime billy rifle

1081
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: hunts for those who are lucky enough to draw it.

1082
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: You have youth muzzle loader hunts, rifle hunts. I believe, um,

1083
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: but it kind of just, you know, varies like that,

1084
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: and then it goes into more of what we want

1085
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 1: to call population management, which is immature immature male female,

1086
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: And in order to kill an immature male it has

1087
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: to be less than fifteen inches um. Ibex are small.

1088
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 1: Judge in a fifteen inch ibex can be difficult. Yeah,

1089
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: I was surprised how spooky they were, Oh my god.

1090
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: But then Jerry brought up that they've been people have

1091
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: been hunting these things since October. It's March and they've

1092
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: been getting on in since October. Yeah, but to touch

1093
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: on that that they are exceptionally spooky, but ibex are

1094
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: few things I've seen. I have seen few things. Is

1095
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: touchy as they are touching and they're like that in

1096
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: in October. I mean, you know, there might be a

1097
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: lot more ibex that you have plays at because they're

1098
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: not as pressured, but they are all on edge. They

1099
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: are still just as sketched out KG. I mean, it's

1100
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the same show you those animals when

1101
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: they want to get up and go and run to

1102
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain for no reason. They do it.

1103
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: They hear a rockfall, they hear a backpack slide, they

1104
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: for instance, for instance, they don't like it. They don't

1105
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: like it. It's it's really incredible. And then they have that.

1106
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: They have that mountain goat the thing too, where you know,

1107
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: a white tail hides like a white tail hide kind

1108
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: of where they can see, but they're also comfortable hide

1109
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: and where they can't see much but nothing can see

1110
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: them at times, you know, But they these things have

1111
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: a real knack for picking some spots to hang out. Yeah,

1112
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,639
Speaker 1: they pick That makes it that I have a cliff

1113
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 1: behind me that's vertical, so if you're on top of it,

1114
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: you can't look down and see You're not gonna look

1115
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 1: down and see me down here, and then I see

1116
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: everything in front of me. And if you're on the bottom,

1117
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: you know, chances are they're gonna be so high up

1118
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: there you can't even look up and see them. Yeah,

1119
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 1: they're good at like pick them their spots. Yeah, there's

1120
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 1: for that archery hunt. There was a lot of times

1121
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: where I was underneath cliffs on billies, you know, and

1122
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: you're looking straight up like I can hear them up there.

1123
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: They're overhanging the cliffs coming over you, and there's just

1124
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: no way you're able to get a shot. We had

1125
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: times of crawling up, Like a lot of times, you

1126
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time going up toward a ridge

1127
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: or saddle or something that's gonna give you a view

1128
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: a new country. And one day we had a few

1129
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: times when you get to the crest and you're like,

1130
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: you're prepared for the fact that you're gonna be looking

1131
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: at some new ground. And it's intense sun, so you

1132
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: got a lot of shadows, there's a lot of brush,

1133
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: and you'd be like, here's the perfect place to pop up.

1134
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna crawl up under this juniper and use the

1135
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: juniper as shade cover. And there's a rock and I'm

1136
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: gonna like belly slide in and do everything perfect. And

1137
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna slowly raise my binoculars and you do that

1138
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: and you meet eye to eye. Some ibex is four

1139
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: yards away, like very aware that you're there. Yeah, yeah,

1140
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking about it. I feel, you know,

1141
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 1: those ibex they're they're so smart and they're so cag

1142
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: that I feel like they they bed or reside in

1143
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: areas where they know they can see danger, whether that's

1144
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: from prior history or interactions, or that's just the natural

1145
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,879
Speaker 1: wiliness ability of these ibex to position themselves in areas

1146
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: where they can feel vulnerable. And that's exactly it. Every

1147
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: time we came into a saddle where we thought we

1148
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: were gonna have a great opportunity, ibricks were looking at us.

1149
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean they had us pinned down. You know it's

1150
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: funny too, is we found uh, we found a deadhead,

1151
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: read the remain like a portion of dat. We found

1152
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: two horns. Um, the skull was gone, but we found

1153
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: two horns under a cliff. Well we kind of like

1154
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: there wasn't even that big, but we kind of seven

1155
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: growth rings. Seven growth rings. You start hunting. Ibex season

1156
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: start in October, they run into March. He's been alive

1157
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: seven years, That isn't that's a lot of data to

1158
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: pull from for that animal. He probably lays there. He's like,

1159
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 1: you know what, when I'm here, I always watched that

1160
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: spot because that's for some asshole always climbs over and

1161
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 1: like they probably get a very detailed sense of like

1162
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: where right, like how things move. Yeah, I think because

1163
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: that mountain has what the what the? Because it's very

1164
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: there's not many ways to get around, right, it's either

1165
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: cliffs or finding these little trails and cuts to get

1166
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: two saddles, you know, find those little grooves in between

1167
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: the cliffs to make your way. And I think those

1168
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 1: animals know that. I think they know most most predators

1169
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: or others other species aren't gonna be on the cliffs.

1170
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: So where are you gonna be looking off the cliffs

1171
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 1: these little It's like most of places, not a lot

1172
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: of the places up there that you can access on foot,

1173
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 1: there's one way to get there in one way to leave.

1174
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: There's not there's not like through. There probably are somewhere,

1175
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: but it's it's not like a place there's a lot

1176
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 1: of like through hunting. It's like you gotta kind of

1177
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: go up and fronaggle your way through, and then when

1178
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: you go to leave, it would be like the only

1179
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: way you're gonna leave is to do exactly that. Yeah,

1180
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't make sense to to try to

1181
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: find an alternate way out right. You want to go

1182
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 1: that mountain is so dangerous, especially when you're burning light.

1183
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: You want to be able to get off that mountain

1184
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: safely and if you're trying to bush whack and find

1185
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: a potential way to get off that mountain that you

1186
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: haven't previously taken, there's a good chance that you're gonna

1187
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: get cliffed out. You're gonna get put in a tough spot,

1188
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: and you're gonna run out of light, and you're gonna

1189
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: have to make the choice of either hunk or and

1190
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: down continuing your path, are going back the way you came,

1191
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,679
Speaker 1: which you know is a safe route, and that's always

1192
01:12:57,760 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: something a factory. And when you're up on that mountain, right,

1193
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there are numerous times where we probably could

1194
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 1: have kept going. We probably could have threaded the needle

1195
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: and pushed it to pushed it to nighttime and walked

1196
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: off that mountain on the dark, in the dark. But

1197
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 1: even even at that at night, everything looks different, even

1198
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: if you have your track going up that mountain, everything

1199
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: looks different. And so it's a it's safe to say

1200
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: you want to get off that mountain with ample light

1201
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 1: to be safe about it, because the last thing you

1202
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 1: want to be doing is getting stuck in a spot

1203
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: where you have to make the decision am I going

1204
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 1: to stay here? Am I gonna walk back? The way

1205
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: I came. Because it's gonna be a lot farther. You're

1206
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: gonna be doing it at night. Ard I do I

1207
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: push forward and hope that this path I took leads

1208
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: leads to an exit. So I looked at the harvest

1209
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: data that's available through the Mexico Department of Game and Fish,

1210
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: and there were according to that, there were no ibex

1211
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: harvested outside of the Florida's on the statewide over the

1212
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: countertag last license here, and there were two billies harvested

1213
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: the license here before that. So it's not a rich

1214
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: hunting opportunity, right. So like Jeremy saying, if you find

1215
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: some off range, you know that's not something that happens

1216
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: all the time, don't tell anyone to get out of

1217
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: That would be to me one of the cooler things

1218
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 1: to do. Man, if you could find one and get

1219
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: it like that, that's badass. Uh let him let me

1220
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: hear with the crystal ball question. And then we're talking

1221
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: to Kevin Murphy about rabbits um take mountain goats. We're

1222
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: talking about montain goats for a minute. Here's a native

1223
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: animal native to the continent. Right, So mountain goats are

1224
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: native to coastal Alaska, some of the interior ranges in

1225
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: south central Alaska all down through BC Okay, native to

1226
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 1: portions of Washington, portions of Oregon, native to western Montana.

1227
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: There's some other areas that are debated native to the I.

1228
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: They were historic populations in the Idahoe Handhandle, Okay, so

1229
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: like it's at least from the continent. Over time, motivated

1230
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 1: by the same factors as they did to introduce IBEX

1231
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: to increase hunting opportunity, they put mountain goats um a

1232
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: neighboring mountain ranges like sometimes really that meaning that put

1233
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: them for for whatever you can't understand why, like why

1234
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: are they in this mountain range but not this mountain range?

1235
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: And people would just help him out by bumping them

1236
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:32,799
Speaker 1: over a mountain range, Okay. And and now in grant

1237
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: Tee Town National Park, Olympic National Park, they're taking steps

1238
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: to bring in using public hunters, using government sharpshooters, all

1239
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 1: kinds of things. They're bringing efforts to eradicate mountain goats

1240
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: off of some of these mountain ranges where they weren't

1241
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: historically even though they were a hundred miles off in

1242
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: some other direction. UM that makes it seem like in

1243
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 1: my mind that made like things don't bode well for

1244
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: the old IBEX because you can't even make that argument

1245
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: for him there from another continent. Man like I feel

1246
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 1: like there's more some people a ride like your buddy

1247
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: KR Malcolm, love him to death, but he's always, Oh,

1248
01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 1: we need more voices in the room, more stakeholder. You know,

1249
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: those people are not gonna be too sympathetic to the IBEX.

1250
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: They're not gonna be like, well, you know those guys

1251
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 1: like the hunt Ums, let's keep them around. It's just

1252
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: not going to be what their view is on it.

1253
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: You could picture in a year or two, or in

1254
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: a decade or two, someone saying they gotta go. I mean,

1255
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's happening right now, but are they what

1256
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 1: are they hurting? Desert big horns big carn't habitat. So

1257
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 1: there there are big horns in the Florida, not in

1258
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: the Floridas. And I'll be the first to say that

1259
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: I am stepping out of my zone right now, and

1260
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: so the conflict would be native big horn sheep habitat

1261
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: right similar and correct me if I'm wrong to to

1262
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 1: the Mountain gold right that in Grand Tea ton so

1263
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 1: An Olympic National Park. I think it's like a vegetation

1264
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: they're using. It's a vegetation issue in Grand Teaton. It

1265
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 1: is Rocky Mountain Big Horn conflict. But one might look

1266
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: and feel that those are proxy arguments and it's more

1267
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: of an argument about the the kind of audacity of

1268
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 1: moving non native species in and then you that is

1269
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: offensive to someone and they'll look and be like, well,

1270
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: what's the big deal, And then you go like, oh,

1271
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 1: well this, yeah, I mean, and and it's it's like

1272
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: a proxy fight. My my personal thought is is you know,

1273
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 1: back in the seventies when they were having that that discussion,

1274
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: there was you know, that was the time too to really,

1275
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, have the talk about is this the right

1276
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: thing to do or should we be focusing our resources

1277
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: and attention into reintroducing native native faunt into the landscape. Right,

1278
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: so let's get big horn sheep back in there. But

1279
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. We got We got to deal

1280
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: with what we got to deal with now, right, And

1281
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,839
Speaker 1: the fact is that Persian ibex are on that mountain

1282
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:18,640
Speaker 1: and according to from what I know from our uh

1283
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, biologists and listening to the Department is the

1284
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: IBEX and the big Horn sheep. There are no there's

1285
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: there aren't any potential issues there as far as you know,

1286
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: disease transmission, as far as UH complicating reintroduction efforts of

1287
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: big horn sheep. There's been considerable efforts to reintroduce desert

1288
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: big horn sheep and some of the surrounding mountain ranges

1289
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: and they've been very successful. And in doing so, the

1290
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 1: Game and Phish Agency has has and and and the

1291
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 1: public as well have have warmed up and accepted the

1292
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 1: IBEX per se to call that mountain range home. Um.

1293
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 1: I personally like IBEX. I personally like the opportunity to

1294
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 1: go chase IBEX. Now, if you put me in the

1295
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: room back in the seventies, I would have advocated for

1296
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: big horn sheep to be on that mountain And they

1297
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: were there, they were, they were there before. I don't

1298
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 1: know that. I think like it wasn't everything here desert

1299
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: big horn Well, you would think, yeah, I mean I

1300
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: would say that's probably a safe assumption. But I don't

1301
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: know entirely if if the Florida Mountain Range was was

1302
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,640
Speaker 1: home to the desert big horn sheep. When we we

1303
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 1: were having a very similar conversation about nil Gui and

1304
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:43,559
Speaker 1: uh that live in South Texas, and I used someone's

1305
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 1: quote where someone described them as being an honorary native,

1306
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:48,599
Speaker 1: And boy did I get a lot of feedback from

1307
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: biologists about calling them an honorary native, including me. Yeah, yeah,

1308
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: that's enough of that. One of my favorite stories out

1309
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: about you because I said I said whatever I said

1310
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:09,600
Speaker 1: about using that term honorary native, and then somebody said like, basically,

1311
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 1: you're in a hole. Steve Ronella would never want to

1312
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: hang out with you. Um, yeah, I guess, I guess.

1313
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: Before we move on move on to the rabbit piece,

1314
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: the last thing I would say about hunting Ibex is,

1315
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, next to making sure you're careful and getting

1316
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 1: up that mountain safely and back down safely, is it's

1317
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: it's frustrating, right to say the least Ibex hunting is frustrating.

1318
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is you you bust

1319
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:47,599
Speaker 1: your tail every day you're climbing thousand you know, plus

1320
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 1: vertical feet. Damn, you're straight up hands feet are always

1321
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: usually on a rock, if not on a rock or

1322
01:20:56,360 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: getting poked by a cactus. And it is just a

1323
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 1: difficult mountain to hunt. And so when you have an

1324
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: opportunity to lay your cross hairs on an ibex, draw

1325
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: your bow back and lay that hundred yard pin on

1326
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: an ibex, you have to you have to factor in

1327
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: other factors that you usually don't in other hunts, right,

1328
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 1: and the biggest one is am I going to be

1329
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: able to recover that animal? You know? These animals are

1330
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: standing on cliffs there in sketchy places, and you know

1331
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 1: it's it happens more times than not where hunters see

1332
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 1: that opportunity as oh, here's an animal, I can harvest it,

1333
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: and they take that shot only to find out that

1334
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: they cannot recover that animal. Yeah, we had an opportunity

1335
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: you almost like an opera. Yeah, yeah, we we had

1336
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: situations whereas we're looking at animals, um that one could

1337
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: have shot at for sure, and being like, you're just

1338
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 1: not gonna get to it, despite Dirtmith guaranteeing I can

1339
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: get there. You would get there with a rope and

1340
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 1: a harness guaranteeing. Personally looking at Garrett like, yeah, but

1341
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 1: that's unless you got a helicop. Unless you're putting a

1342
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: helicopter in the mix, I don't buy it. I'm gonna

1343
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 1: watch it from here is Jeremy, you were pointing out

1344
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 1: spots on the mountain where they were still ropes hanging

1345
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: from cliffs. Absolutely. So you know, folks like I mentioned,

1346
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: hit ibex. They go die in these precarious areas on

1347
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: the top of a cliff, and hunters will actually hire

1348
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: rock climbers, you know, to go up there and climb

1349
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: up to the top and repel their their goat down

1350
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 1: for them. And you know, sometimes they bring their ropes down,

1351
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: sometimes they don't. And so it's not uncommon to as

1352
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 1: your glass in these you know, nasty cliffs, see these

1353
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: ropes tethered and just hanging down to the bottom. Um

1354
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 1: you just know someone scaled up there to to lower

1355
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: an ibex down. Yeah. Rick Smith read an article about

1356
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 1: some guy that killed a billy thirty yards and then

1357
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 1: hired climbers to go find into for him. That that's

1358
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: the problem, right, is like that's I'm just not interested

1359
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: in the working part, I mean, And that's like that's

1360
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: a hard conversation to have, right when you're when you're

1361
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: a glass and an ibex and it's well within shooting

1362
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 1: distance and you say, I don't think you should take

1363
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:22,679
Speaker 1: that shot. I don't. I don't think we can recover

1364
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 1: that animal. That's that's a hard concept to grasp. And

1365
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: you just busted your tail to get up to that

1366
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: that saddle to have that opportunity, just to come to

1367
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: find out that sure you can shoot that animal and

1368
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna fallot to the bottom. Is that even worth it?

1369
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean that animal is gonna be so beat up,

1370
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: there's not even any meat to recover. Yeah, the one

1371
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: we fellah if that scrambled its guts real good, but

1372
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 1: the meat unscathed. But I mean it's like stomach contents

1373
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: were it was pretty beat up, like like it's ards

1374
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:01,719
Speaker 1: had been homogenized. You couldn't tell. Yeah, it was just everything,

1375
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 1: everything was everything and that and you know that that billy,

1376
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 1: that billy fell like you said, maybe thirty ft landed

1377
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 1: and vegetation, which was fortunate, and that landed right on

1378
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,280
Speaker 1: a yuka, right on a yuka, a little bit of

1379
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: a cushion and worked out perfectly. You know, we saw

1380
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 1: right where it went in. We and to the point

1381
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: where I'm saying is you know, making sure you can

1382
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 1: recover an ibex is we were looking at that, but

1383
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 1: you know where's that when when you take that shot,

1384
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: where's the likelihood of that animal gonna go? And we

1385
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,080
Speaker 1: were certain that if you took that shot, we're gonna

1386
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 1: be able to recover that animal. The two yeah, two

1387
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 1: instances where like to just to give people an idea

1388
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. There's one instance where there was

1389
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 1: a shoot that we could pretty much picture get into

1390
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 1: the shoot, and it was in the shoot, but if

1391
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: you file the shoot up, it was like, man, you

1392
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: could probably could pick your way up that shoot, but

1393
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 1: there's a big Raiders of the lost Are boulder. Then

1394
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 1: it at some point in time falling off the mountain,

1395
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: ran down the shooting and got wedged in the shoot.

1396
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's bulls like ft high crammed in there.

1397
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, you could if you can,

1398
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:20,680
Speaker 1: and it seems like you can. I'm not sure get

1399
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:22,600
Speaker 1: up the shoot, You're sure ship not getting past that

1400
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: boulder guaranteed to guaranteed with like with a harness, his

1401
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: harness and his sadd he guaranteed he would be able

1402
01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 1: to retrieve it. And the more we looked at that

1403
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 1: from more angles, I was really wished we could have

1404
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: taken him up on his back. The other one, we're

1405
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 1: looking at a we're looking at ibex and you couldn't

1406
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 1: really picture where it would quit falling, but you like,

1407
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: how far go, but it would wind up in the shoot,

1408
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, shoot, you can definitely go

1409
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: up that shoot. But then I raised myself up to

1410
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: follow the shoot down more and realized that the shoot

1411
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 1: just ends at a cliff. But had I not done

1412
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 1: that In my head, I was like the easiest thing

1413
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:03,160
Speaker 1: in the world, And there's no way to come in

1414
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,639
Speaker 1: from the sides into that shoot. I shouldn't say no way,

1415
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 1: but you weren't. And then it was far enough away

1416
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 1: that once you shot and it fell from it's cliff,

1417
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: it was gonna vanish into the brush, and so you'd

1418
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 1: have to finagle your way over there, which would have

1419
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: been an hour's long job, and then be like, I

1420
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 1: don't know, it's somewhere in the five yard expanse from

1421
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 1: that cliff down to here in this brushy ass SHOOTE.

1422
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:34,640
Speaker 1: You're not gonna blood trail it. You might find like

1423
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: tufts of hair stuck on stuff here and there, you know,

1424
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 1: I mean like, like, how do you in there? The

1425
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 1: size of a labrador? Yeah, I mean so small that

1426
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 1: when we went to we wanted, you know, like when

1427
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: you retrieve a body carcass, you want to move it

1428
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 1: somewhere nice to gut it. I grabbed its back foot

1429
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 1: in my hand and then bent it up and grabbed

1430
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: its horn in the same hand and lifted it up

1431
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 1: and carried it down and said it where I wanted it. Yeah,

1432
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was like just passing, passing

1433
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 1: the billy down to our tour spot where we can

1434
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,839
Speaker 1: I mean, and even packing it out was was pretty interesting.

1435
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 1: You know, if there's if there's a if there's an

1436
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: animal to pack out whole and leave it fully intact,

1437
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 1: it'd be an ibex. We put the whole thing. The

1438
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 1: whole thing fit in my backpack and game bag, like

1439
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: not not a large game bag that you would fit

1440
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 1: an out quarter in a small game bag like deer

1441
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 1: quarter game bag. We split a whole ibex into it,

1442
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 1: took the hooves up to the head and just man, yeah,

1443
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:43,720
Speaker 1: it was fun. It was. It was brutal. Uh, I

1444
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: need to add their mike, No, mike was my glass

1445
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: and buddy. Meanwhile we are down at the bottom pouring

1446
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 1: coal to it, which which is important, right, like to

1447
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: say it again, it or to add to the whole experience.

1448
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 1: It's like having a team and having people that can

1449
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 1: have eyes on the mountain for you and say, you know,

1450
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,759
Speaker 1: Ibex or the Ibex are still there as you're hiking

1451
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 1: up and down these hills and through these crooks and crannies.

1452
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: It's it helps in it. It's really beneficial to have

1453
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 1: someone with some eyes on on the mountain, just to

1454
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 1: have people, I mean just even in the morning, just

1455
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 1: to try to find something I had heard from a

1456
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: guy that was saying in the earlier season there was

1457
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people not finding any at all, which

1458
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:35,599
Speaker 1: I could very easily picture, yeah, easily, but I got fortunate.

1459
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 1: All right, Kevin Murphy, you ready, I'm ready. I'm ready.

1460
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 1: When we were this is this is called the Saga

1461
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: of Kevin Murphy, the Saga of Kevin Murphy's Beagles. When

1462
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 1: we were on orcs Is, June and Jeremy and Mike

1463
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: were there. Um, I was kind of flabber gassed by

1464
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: the number of rabbits running around, and we talked a

1465
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:13,200
Speaker 1: bunch about why don't people have beagles, beagles oh the desert,

1466
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: and how many rabbits you'd kill with your beagles because

1467
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 1: they're all over the down place, and I started getting

1468
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 1: Kevin interested in how he ought to come out and

1469
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 1: bring his high test rabbits, his high test beagles out

1470
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:30,160
Speaker 1: here and run rabbits. How'd that go, Kevin? Well, it

1471
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: was an experience, you know. When you you asked me

1472
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: about that, it says, well, I don't know for sure,

1473
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 1: I said. We did take a trip two years ago

1474
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: down to North Carolina to hunt some marsh rabbits with

1475
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 1: two of my friends that are bagle manias, that's what

1476
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: they live. Forward getting on chat groups talking about rabbit hunting,

1477
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: and we packed up and went to what's your guy's

1478
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 1: favorite chat group in the rabbit hunt community. He now,

1479
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: I don't stay connected like that, so I don't know.

1480
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: I'll find out for you. So I don't know. But um,

1481
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: we loaded up, went to North Carolina and Sandy Soul

1482
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: but moist down there, and so we would get after

1483
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 1: some rabbits and I was running like four of my

1484
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 1: dogs and they had probably before. So I had twelve

1485
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: beagles out there trying to run some rabbits and we

1486
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 1: ended up killing just a few. And then like in

1487
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 1: the third day, was sitting around the couch just kind

1488
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 1: of like we are now talking, and they said, well,

1489
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: else is You know, we read a lot about this,

1490
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 1: that dogs coming from up north and going down there

1491
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,560
Speaker 1: to run. We had lots of issues and lots of

1492
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,560
Speaker 1: problems running the rabbits. You know, typically you jump a

1493
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,639
Speaker 1: rabbit up and it's gonna if you just post up there,

1494
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: be quiet, look at the landscape in the terrain, he's

1495
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: gonna make a circle around a huge circle. Yes, some

1496
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 1: some I mean this. When I was with you hunting

1497
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 1: swamp rabbits, I mean they'd go so far you can't

1498
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:00,600
Speaker 1: you hear the damn dogs anymore. Now, swamp will go

1499
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: further than a regular cotton tail. But sometimes initially they

1500
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: will go out and they'll come back in just one time.

1501
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: And then the next time they go out of the

1502
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:15,160
Speaker 1: country I mean out of hearing, out of here. And

1503
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 1: then when they start coming back. And I didn't learn

1504
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 1: this too, uh, I got a garment astro, they'll start

1505
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: they won't make us just a continuous circle. It's a spiral,

1506
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 1: little short circles in there. And you remember when we're

1507
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 1: down on the band hunting, I was looking at my

1508
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:36,759
Speaker 1: GPS and the dogs are running and running and running.

1509
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 1: But never running back to us. And I told you

1510
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 1: since we're gonna have to go after that one. I

1511
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember that or not, because I said,

1512
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 1: this is what he's doing, and I had learned that

1513
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:47,679
Speaker 1: hunting him before that. They start making these small spiral

1514
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 1: circles and you just have to go in there and

1515
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:54,679
Speaker 1: try to figure out. Now, when we hunt rabbits snowshoe

1516
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:59,439
Speaker 1: hair on Drummond Island, Uh, to kill one snowshoe hair,

1517
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:01,680
Speaker 1: you to lead the dogs have to run four to

1518
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 1: six miles. So and that's the like it's it's not

1519
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 1: that the dogs are running the rabbit in a circle intentionally,

1520
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 1: It's like the rabbit is going in a circle. He

1521
01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 1: doesn't want to leave his familiar territory. Yes, correct, that's

1522
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 1: what I think. So when we go to Drummond a

1523
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: hunt up there to look at the GPS and figure so, well,

1524
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: that's rabbit has crossed like three times because a snowshoe

1525
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 1: he'll run in the shade in the dark. And I

1526
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 1: didn't realize that. The first time I hunted those was

1527
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: up around Benedicta, Maine. And we get out there in

1528
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: that fur forest and try to look for him and like, man,

1529
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: I can't you know, you just got to get right

1530
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: on top of him, so your shooting lane is reduced

1531
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: very small. Um, I didn't really know what I was

1532
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:51,720
Speaker 1: doing up there. We hired a guide, and um we

1533
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 1: ended up killing seven or eight. A little bit different

1534
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 1: condition than than Drummond. You said you've been on Drummond

1535
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:00,200
Speaker 1: for it's a glaciated We used to hunt, know whats

1536
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:04,080
Speaker 1: your hair is? They're just uh still hunting them. Which, man,

1537
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:05,800
Speaker 1: you can spend a lot of time. You can spend

1538
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,360
Speaker 1: a lot of time on great Sign and not kill ship.

1539
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 1: But you look at your GPS and you say, well,

1540
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,400
Speaker 1: this this hair has come through this little trail out

1541
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 1: here like three times, maybe four. I'm gonna go down

1542
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 1: there and get set up and maybe just have a

1543
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 1: yard shot. No further than that is a long ways

1544
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,640
Speaker 1: when you're in that forest like that, and then all

1545
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden he crosses fifty yards down there, he

1546
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,040
Speaker 1: heard you or saw you. You weren't you weren't still enough.

1547
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 1: But you know, you can completely run a dog down

1548
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:40,560
Speaker 1: if you're not careful. I know the second morning that

1549
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: we were there, I've got a faster dog. Lucy, the

1550
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 1: little tricolor blue tich beak when she's getting some age

1551
01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 1: on her now. So I turned her loose that that

1552
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:51,040
Speaker 1: morning and we had the best races of the day.

1553
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 1: But by one o'clock she had shut down and we

1554
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 1: carried her out in the back of our game bag.

1555
01:33:56,720 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: That thing completely recovered, but that, yeah, she was of stuff.

1556
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: She just ran and that's what a beagle to do.

1557
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 1: They just run and run and run until they got

1558
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:08,639
Speaker 1: nothing left in them. So we we came up here.

1559
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 1: You know, we had the discussion. I says, I don't

1560
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: know how my dogs are gonna do in this dried

1561
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: desert terrain. And I said, I'm a little bit concerned

1562
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 1: about what do you think, Like, give me the North

1563
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: Carolina example, what do you think the problem was for

1564
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,880
Speaker 1: the beagle? You know, I don't know. I don't know

1565
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:30,719
Speaker 1: if it's the soul down there, that sandy saul because

1566
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 1: it was damp. You know, we're hunting these marsh rabbits,

1567
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: which were very similar to the swamp rabbit, but a

1568
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: little bit smaller, not near as big. They would leave

1569
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 1: their sign latrine stumps and logs. So we saw that

1570
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: sign in there, But I do not know what the

1571
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 1: trouble was down there. I don't know why the beagles could.

1572
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 1: They had remarked that people, yes, from the rabbit dog

1573
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: chat groups, remark that they had taken their dogs in

1574
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: there and they had trouble in the rabbits in that

1575
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 1: moist sandy. But are there dudes down in North Carolina,

1576
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 1: the half beagles that do good? I'm sure there is.

1577
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:11,599
Speaker 1: You know, Um, I went uh black bear hunting down

1578
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 1: there one year with the with the bear guys, and

1579
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,559
Speaker 1: their dogs could just pound those bears. But I mean

1580
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:22,639
Speaker 1: they all lived down there and they were acclimated to them. Yes,

1581
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:26,400
Speaker 1: so you know, and it sometimes it is hard to

1582
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:28,600
Speaker 1: to pack a dog up and like we did. We

1583
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:31,840
Speaker 1: we drove two days twelve miles to get here and

1584
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 1: then open up the dog box and say, go run

1585
01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:38,000
Speaker 1: me a rabbit. You know, even myself. After four or

1586
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 1: five days, I feel better. I see more out there.

1587
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 1: I learned more, you know, what these rabbits are doing.

1588
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: And it just takes a while. Maybe if I spent

1589
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: two or three weeks here or whatever, maybe they could

1590
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: pick it up. I don't know. It is so dry.

1591
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this this air here is like some kind

1592
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:56,559
Speaker 1: of ozone generator. I mean, I cannot believe just smelling fresh.

1593
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: You know, the rabbits have no smell to them. Uh,

1594
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 1: it's just a different landscape and and you know, uh atmosphere.

1595
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:08,679
Speaker 1: What is the if you're in a layout, the best

1596
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 1: ground conditions for a beagle to smell a rabbit, it

1597
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:17,639
Speaker 1: would be what snow grass uh on a melting snow,

1598
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:21,759
Speaker 1: melting snow out For my days of running bobcats with dogs,

1599
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,280
Speaker 1: not a falling snow or a frozen snow, but a

1600
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 1: melting snow. It seems that is the ideal conditions sticky

1601
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:32,479
Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, yeah, that it's releasing something or whatever.

1602
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,960
Speaker 1: But they can really run on a melted snowe or

1603
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:40,479
Speaker 1: damp and wet not to to to uh wet. But

1604
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 1: you know a lot of us dog people there, when

1605
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:45,320
Speaker 1: you let the dogs out in the morning, they go

1606
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 1: over there and take a crap and you smell that.

1607
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 1: It's like read in your face, tight, that's gonna be

1608
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 1: a good morning to hunt. I don't know if that

1609
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,679
Speaker 1: scent is just laying you know, low on the ground

1610
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 1: and not not rising up. But so you're saying, if

1611
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:00,880
Speaker 1: your dog goes out and takes a growl in the yard,

1612
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: and you could smell it real good, which just like

1613
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 1: it smells right in your face. Yes, that's good. You

1614
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 1: know it's a good huh, because the smell is gonna

1615
01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: be sticking around. That's the only thing that you know

1616
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 1: he's up for me. That's good. That's that's an astute observation.

1617
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:22,720
Speaker 1: Like you know, I will be sixty two in September.

1618
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:25,600
Speaker 1: So I have been following dogs probably since I was

1619
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, seven eight years out and trying to put

1620
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,599
Speaker 1: you know, what I see together. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes

1621
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but just smells like crap, it's gonna be

1622
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 1: a good day when the winds from the south blows. Debait.

1623
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: You gotta make up one of those things, man, I'll

1624
01:37:43,560 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 1: be working on that. I'll be working on that. So

1625
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 1: here it's like very definitely not melting snow. It's dry,

1626
01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:58,680
Speaker 1: dry gravel and with a lot of rabbits, lots of

1627
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 1: rabbits and just trimmendous amount of rabbit sign you know,

1628
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 1: everywhere you look, you see because nothing decomposes here man, Right,

1629
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:10,360
Speaker 1: it's like you're looking at three year old rabbit sh

1630
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 1: like like what what would happen? Do it? It's like

1631
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 1: you lay it out on the ground, zero moisture, laying

1632
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 1: on gravel. It's like every rabbit turd that's ever hit

1633
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:25,559
Speaker 1: the ground here is still laying here. Probably, I don't

1634
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:28,640
Speaker 1: think I'm not gonna argue with Yeah, I noticed that.

1635
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 1: I don't think anything happens to it like that. But

1636
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 1: some of that rabbit ship we're looking at could have

1637
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: been two years old. We need to I wish you

1638
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,560
Speaker 1: could radio carbon date and it wasn't as expensive. We

1639
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:43,840
Speaker 1: can find out how, but it doesn't the reasons that

1640
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:45,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't work, But something like that would be interesting. I

1641
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 1: think that you're looking at a you're looking at a

1642
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 1: great history of rabbit droppings. You know, a rabbit is

1643
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: a critter, if I get the scientific term for that,

1644
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,839
Speaker 1: could eat its own waste. And you'll see that sometimes

1645
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:02,760
Speaker 1: it's a capri fab Okay, Mike rule capage, you know

1646
01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 1: where he's in the wildlife business or something like that.

1647
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:12,760
Speaker 1: Is that what he's saying. You can picture Capropagi eats poop. Yeah,

1648
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 1: but they like poop. You know, you say something that

1649
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:17,760
Speaker 1: are really green, and then you see something back home

1650
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 1: this way it goes. You know, you see something really

1651
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:22,120
Speaker 1: green and then some that are very light color and

1652
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:24,760
Speaker 1: just the same. Well, that is one he's probably eating

1653
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 1: because everything broughts back home. You know, we've got fifty

1654
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,200
Speaker 1: inches of rain per year. I looked up here and

1655
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,639
Speaker 1: instead of landing, and then y'all said, that's kind of high.

1656
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:36,800
Speaker 1: You know what it is where my fish check is.

1657
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:44,559
Speaker 1: Probably she're up there like sixty hundred and sixty nine

1658
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 1: thirteen feet of rain. Wait, no place for a clothes long.

1659
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:01,519
Speaker 1: It's like fifteen years worth here. So I'm seeing this

1660
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: rabbit peels droppings out there, you know, just everywhere you

1661
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:11,840
Speaker 1: look in some places. And Jeremy gave me a week.

1662
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: We arrived here and on Sunday afternoon we went hunt.

1663
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 1: He shared three on X hunt points with me. He says,

1664
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 1: this would be a good location here, here, and here.

1665
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 1: So we hit it out with one and we jumped

1666
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:28,519
Speaker 1: a bunch of rabbits in there, and we had the dogs. Um,

1667
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: they were getting the mesquite thorns in them, and and

1668
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: they may have like a little mesquite branch, you know,

1669
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: three or four inches long. You know, it's sticking out

1670
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:39,000
Speaker 1: on both sides of the po and they keep hobbling

1671
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: with it. You know, I've got a bird dog. It

1672
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 1: was raised out west and she gets a thorn in

1673
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 1: her she just stops and pulls it out. You know.

1674
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 1: We had the discussion and I was saying, I don't

1675
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:51,599
Speaker 1: know how my baggers are gonna do around all these

1676
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 1: cactus and thorns. And then you says, people bird hunt

1677
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:58,600
Speaker 1: with their dogs here all the time. I got to

1678
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:01,720
Speaker 1: think him, Bill, he's right about that. But I took

1679
01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 1: the beagles out here, and you know, we spent They

1680
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: didn't get as many as what I thought they would get,

1681
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 1: but when they got one, they never you had to

1682
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 1: actually pick them up, you know, and pull it out.

1683
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:13,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes it would just be a single thorn, and

1684
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:15,560
Speaker 1: then sometimes it would be like a part of a

1685
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:18,840
Speaker 1: branch they had they hadn't. They wouldn't even look at trying.

1686
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: They just kept on, you know, hobbling in trudging through that.

1687
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,360
Speaker 1: So we went that afternoon. They would get after a

1688
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 1: rabbit and in the grassy parts where there's some vegetations,

1689
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 1: they could smell it good, and they jumped some and

1690
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 1: they run them till they got to the sand and

1691
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 1: the gravel, and after that they just could not smell

1692
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 1: them in off and you'd go and put their nose

1693
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:41,080
Speaker 1: in where it was I saw one. I saw him

1694
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:43,880
Speaker 1: jump up one and take and go down this shoot there,

1695
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,120
Speaker 1: and I called him, I give them my my rabbit.

1696
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: Call hell. You know. They all come running over there

1697
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:53,240
Speaker 1: and put them and it's like nothing, not even a

1698
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:56,640
Speaker 1: tail wag or anything. They just could not smell it.

1699
01:41:57,120 --> 01:41:59,679
Speaker 1: A buddy mine who's a houndsman, who's a lion hunter.

1700
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:03,560
Speaker 1: I brought this up to him ahead of time. And

1701
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure you talked to plenty of people too, but um,

1702
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:09,679
Speaker 1: I brought him what we were fixing to do, because

1703
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: he used to be a beagle man too, but he's

1704
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:14,759
Speaker 1: now a lion houndsman. Uh. He hunts bobcats and lions,

1705
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:21,640
Speaker 1: and he would he he didn't know, but he was

1706
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:24,840
Speaker 1: more thinking about the acclamation. He wasn't like, did it

1707
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 1: would work or wouldn't work. It was just that what

1708
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 1: are they accustomed to? And what he pointed out was, um,

1709
01:42:32,120 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 1: if you have lion hounds in the north and you

1710
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:41,120
Speaker 1: run lions in the snow, okay, uh, And then he's

1711
01:42:41,160 --> 01:42:43,760
Speaker 1: seen where those dogs have gone down to try to

1712
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 1: hunt dry conditions and they just can't do it. But meanwhile,

1713
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:52,639
Speaker 1: you have the exact same dogs, like exact same breeds

1714
01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:58,000
Speaker 1: and lines um not lions, but the same breeding lines

1715
01:42:58,080 --> 01:43:02,599
Speaker 1: of dogs that are beard in those conditions, and they

1716
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 1: excel in them. And so he thinks it's just a

1717
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:07,040
Speaker 1: matter of it's not that it can't be done. It's

1718
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:08,720
Speaker 1: just a matter of like his skill set is is

1719
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 1: not adapted to this, and that over time they would

1720
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,720
Speaker 1: start to piece it together. But you're just asking too

1721
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:17,160
Speaker 1: much of them. I agree with you on that. It's

1722
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:20,200
Speaker 1: just like in my country when people come in, they

1723
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:22,280
Speaker 1: may come from the eastern end of the States and

1724
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 1: the one to go swamp rabbit NTY. So take them

1725
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:29,160
Speaker 1: down into the Clark's River bottoms in there a lot

1726
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:32,679
Speaker 1: of little swamps and in water ditches, and the hill

1727
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 1: dogs that come out of eastern Kentucky are not used

1728
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:39,760
Speaker 1: to running in water and swamp rabbit. You put enough

1729
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 1: pressure on them, they'll hit, hit the water, swim across.

1730
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 1: And it's the needest thing in the world to see

1731
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 1: a swamp rabbit swimming because they make no wake. They've

1732
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:51,439
Speaker 1: got these little bitty you know, their feet, they're just

1733
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:54,400
Speaker 1: barely paddling right there and they see this rabbitness like

1734
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:57,960
Speaker 1: you're just gliding out across the water. But they'll bring

1735
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 1: their dogs down that are not accustomed water in they'll

1736
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,040
Speaker 1: trail a swamp rabbit to the edge of the water

1737
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,680
Speaker 1: and maybe they wait out just a little bit, and

1738
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:10,280
Speaker 1: then they won't go swimming, you know, after those those

1739
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,599
Speaker 1: swamp rabbits, And a lot of times the swamp rabbit

1740
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 1: just go out ten twenty ten yards or so and

1741
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 1: just squat down in the water and just just stay there,

1742
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:24,479
Speaker 1: sometimes just with their head just barely barely submerged. I

1743
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: have have not seen one, but they will go under water.

1744
01:44:27,560 --> 01:44:30,080
Speaker 1: To have talked to people that have seen them do that,

1745
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:34,720
Speaker 1: like a rambo rabbit go under water and then come So.

1746
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:37,599
Speaker 1: I've got a friend of mine, his dad saw one

1747
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: do that one time. But I have seen them on

1748
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: three or four occasions swim uh through swamps across the

1749
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: Clarks River, and some little bitty water hos just go

1750
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:51,639
Speaker 1: in there. And it's the neediest thing in the world

1751
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:54,320
Speaker 1: to see that. But I see people bring their dogs

1752
01:44:54,360 --> 01:44:56,640
Speaker 1: down that are not accustomed to the water, and they

1753
01:44:56,680 --> 01:44:59,600
Speaker 1: won't follow us swamp rabbit through through the swamps and

1754
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: or across the river to the other side. And that

1755
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: which my dogs are got lucy out there and when

1756
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 1: she was a puppy. I just would give her out

1757
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:09,120
Speaker 1: there to follow me around and get her swimming into

1758
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 1: the Pond's get him accustomed to the water as soon

1759
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:13,479
Speaker 1: as I can, so they're not afraid to go out

1760
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:16,559
Speaker 1: swimming to no degree. I tell everybody she's half river otter,

1761
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:23,799
Speaker 1: because I've got a real neat picture where Raymond and um, Jason,

1762
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 1: you met Jason and you met Jody, we all boated

1763
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,240
Speaker 1: into the k o W. I think it's about three

1764
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:32,479
Speaker 1: or four years ago. The river was coming up and

1765
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:34,960
Speaker 1: Raymond hunted that ever since he was a kid. He

1766
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 1: says Murphy, I'm pretty sure it's gonna probably push a

1767
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:41,559
Speaker 1: bunch of rabbits up into this hill. Down there's all

1768
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:43,640
Speaker 1: flat river bottom land anyway, So we can boat in

1769
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: about four or five dred yards and go in there

1770
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:49,640
Speaker 1: and hunt that big areas to be a couple of

1771
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 1: hundred acres, and then that's not flooded out of about

1772
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 1: I think it's about five thousand acres down only, so

1773
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 1: you're concentrating all those rabbits onto that one patch. That

1774
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:01,679
Speaker 1: one patch. So we went down there and we killed

1775
01:46:02,040 --> 01:46:05,640
Speaker 1: eight swamp rabbits that on that hunt, and after it

1776
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:10,639
Speaker 1: was all over pretty much after that hunt. Raymond says,

1777
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 1: I thought we might kill one or two down there,

1778
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:15,360
Speaker 1: and that, like you said, they concentrated, pushed them all

1779
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:19,920
Speaker 1: up there, and um, we had a really good hunt. Uh.

1780
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:22,400
Speaker 1: A couple of them hit the water on us and

1781
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:26,479
Speaker 1: got away. Didn't get those. And we're going down through there,

1782
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:28,400
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden we see this blue kayak

1783
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,840
Speaker 1: coming out across the water, and Raymond looks at me

1784
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:34,800
Speaker 1: and says, who in the hill is down here in

1785
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:37,599
Speaker 1: a blue kite? Must be some birder or something. Well,

1786
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 1: they see us and they start started paddling. Well, it's

1787
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 1: Raymond's brother, Mike. He is down there deer hunting because

1788
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 1: he knows that, like I said, they've hunted this place

1789
01:46:50,479 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 1: since they were kids. Lady, yeah, he's gonna be the

1790
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 1: deer up there. So we're all sitting sitting around through

1791
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:00,599
Speaker 1: there looking and all of a sudden, Mike said, man,

1792
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:04,439
Speaker 1: there's something swimming way out there. He says, it's a

1793
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 1: swamp rabbit. So Raymond queels around there and shoots. And

1794
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:10,599
Speaker 1: he's only one that wore chess waiters that day. Luckily

1795
01:47:10,840 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 1: he did that because my boat wouldn't start that morning.

1796
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:18,360
Speaker 1: So Chester beware of used boats. Well, he's gonna tear

1797
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:19,760
Speaker 1: it up. He's gonna wind up with a brand new

1798
01:47:19,800 --> 01:47:23,920
Speaker 1: boat on that big Okay. So so Raymond shoots this

1799
01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:26,679
Speaker 1: swamp right, I mean he's way out, like fifty yards

1800
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 1: or so. So he goes out and picks up and

1801
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:30,400
Speaker 1: I take a picture of him. He's got an orange

1802
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:32,720
Speaker 1: head on it. It's just a little bit dispec is

1803
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:35,320
Speaker 1: all it is of Raymond out there. So he comes

1804
01:47:35,360 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 1: into the to the bank with this this swamp rabbits.

1805
01:47:38,120 --> 01:47:40,240
Speaker 1: So we got his brother there in the blue kayak,

1806
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 1: got Jason, and then Jodie is all down there. So

1807
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:47,479
Speaker 1: we got the whole gang out out killing swamp rabbits

1808
01:47:47,520 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 1: that morning. And U I can remember when I was

1809
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: worked at the Pire plant and there was a boy

1810
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:58,080
Speaker 1: from LBL before they flooded it, and he said when

1811
01:47:58,120 --> 01:48:02,320
Speaker 1: we was kids, the crops wouldn't be in and that's

1812
01:48:02,520 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 1: the Cumberland River running through there. Says that the grown

1813
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,080
Speaker 1: ups would be talking about the river's getting ready to

1814
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:09,920
Speaker 1: get up, and we don't have our crops out. He says,

1815
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 1: all those kids were thinking about. Man, the river gets

1816
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:14,760
Speaker 1: up and the swamp rabbits getting there. We're gonna take

1817
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:16,880
Speaker 1: a tobacco stick in there and going there White Laham.

1818
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:19,360
Speaker 1: So you know, they were all excited that he's gonna

1819
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:21,840
Speaker 1: flood because they could get to go hunting. But you know,

1820
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:25,600
Speaker 1: the adults were concerned, you know, just like adults should be.

1821
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:27,280
Speaker 1: You know, they were gonna lose their corn crop. But

1822
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:29,600
Speaker 1: all the kids were ready to go hunting because they

1823
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: pushes that game up. So that we're with these boys,

1824
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:35,320
Speaker 1: these these tribal you know Amerindians in one of these

1825
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:39,519
Speaker 1: areas in South America, and uh, they were telling us

1826
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 1: that that's that's when they hunt, is when everything floods

1827
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:49,720
Speaker 1: and they just go island hopping because the deer and

1828
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:53,519
Speaker 1: these big you know, they hunt these uh, nocturnal rodents

1829
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,640
Speaker 1: down there. Like the hell they call those things like

1830
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:02,080
Speaker 1: there's the well there's they call it's a PoCA. But

1831
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:04,880
Speaker 1: guy's got our damn name and a goody. You know

1832
01:49:04,920 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 1: it's different than the goody either way, you care, what

1833
01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 1: the hell? It was very good eat we had it

1834
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 1: a bunch tastes. It's like it's like very pork like. Anyways,

1835
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:14,639
Speaker 1: then they can win it floods and that's in their

1836
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 1: mind when to go hunting because it's so easy. Just

1837
01:49:17,479 --> 01:49:19,800
Speaker 1: go check all the little islands and everything that everything

1838
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 1: that needs to breathe there, it's on the same place.

1839
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:26,120
Speaker 1: And they talked about sometimes you can go up and

1840
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:31,960
Speaker 1: just club stuff. That's what it's so star. Yeah, they

1841
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:35,040
Speaker 1: don't just hunt with a stick. One of my friends

1842
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 1: he saw, well, you know that morning that we went

1843
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:40,000
Speaker 1: to a swamp rabbit had the boat. There was three

1844
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 1: quails setting on a log in the backwater. So and

1845
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:46,560
Speaker 1: then a friend of mine, he was out checking on

1846
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:48,880
Speaker 1: his duck line yesterday he sent me a picture of

1847
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:51,360
Speaker 1: a swamp rabbit up on a on a log. I

1848
01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 1: think I showed it because yeah, and that was just yesterday.

1849
01:49:55,880 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 1: Our river system is coming up two ft a day,

1850
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:01,840
Speaker 1: so it's on a really big rise and that's you

1851
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:04,720
Speaker 1: know the river downer where Leon lives. You know, it's

1852
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:07,280
Speaker 1: about two miles wide down there now. So that's a

1853
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:10,840
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of water that I live around. I knew

1854
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:14,400
Speaker 1: these guys that lived in an area in Alberta where

1855
01:50:14,479 --> 01:50:17,920
Speaker 1: it was legal though you could hunt beavers like well

1856
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:19,960
Speaker 1: normal you can't, but you can hunt beavers for the markets.

1857
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:23,320
Speaker 1: And they would in the spring floods everything. The water

1858
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 1: gets so high that all the bank dens and lodges

1859
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,000
Speaker 1: and flood. And they'd go out on a john boat

1860
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:31,280
Speaker 1: with a twenty two. And he was telling me one time.

1861
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:33,599
Speaker 1: I can't remember, I remember he said something they hunted

1862
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:35,800
Speaker 1: two days because like nine beavers or something like that

1863
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:39,720
Speaker 1: with the twenty two. Oh, because they were everything was

1864
01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:44,360
Speaker 1: flooded out of its house. It's tremendous amount of skin

1865
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:48,400
Speaker 1: in there if you killed that being two days. Pure misery, man,

1866
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:51,120
Speaker 1: pure misery. Let me ask you this, though, Kevin, do

1867
01:50:51,240 --> 01:50:53,719
Speaker 1: you uh do you regret coming out to New Mexico

1868
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:56,280
Speaker 1: with your dogs? Oh? No, No, it's been a pleasure.

1869
01:50:56,320 --> 01:50:59,760
Speaker 1: I met Mike and Jeremy, you two new guys. Say

1870
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,360
Speaker 1: in Chester and say you again? Now you know we

1871
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:05,720
Speaker 1: met the first time, I think in St. Louis. So

1872
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,720
Speaker 1: here we are. I was signing something another at the

1873
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:12,080
Speaker 1: n r A convention. Yeah, and I come up to

1874
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:13,880
Speaker 1: you and started talking to you. Some man. You need

1875
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:16,400
Speaker 1: to get some kids into small game, honey, because I

1876
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 1: can go right out their back door with him. That's

1877
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:21,439
Speaker 1: not what That's not what attracted me to you. What

1878
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 1: attracted me to you? And you know doing it. You're

1879
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: talking all kinds of people and after a while, it's

1880
01:51:26,040 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to keep track. But the reason you

1881
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,240
Speaker 1: and I be this is not the reason we became friends,

1882
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:35,240
Speaker 1: but the reason I we began to correspond is you

1883
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:39,280
Speaker 1: were the first person in my life to ever come

1884
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:43,639
Speaker 1: up to me and start making a guess about whether

1885
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:47,080
Speaker 1: the squirrel hunting would be good this year. And you

1886
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 1: were looking forward to the squirrel season because you felt

1887
01:51:49,880 --> 01:51:52,840
Speaker 1: that the massed crop was looking pretty strong in your area.

1888
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:56,360
Speaker 1: And in all my years, I've never had someone come

1889
01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: up and predict to me, um and try to like

1890
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:03,479
Speaker 1: make a guest to me about what the squirrel season

1891
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: would look like based on mass crop. And I said,

1892
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:09,599
Speaker 1: that's a special man. It's all about food, not people

1893
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,040
Speaker 1: all day long. A lot of good antler growth, which

1894
01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:15,120
Speaker 1: is fine, that's great. But I've never had someone come

1895
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:17,559
Speaker 1: up and be like, there's a very strong mass crop

1896
01:52:17,640 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna be an exceptional squirrel yar.

1897
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:22,320
Speaker 1: And I said, I want to be friends with that person.

1898
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 1: Here we are. We've hung out in a lot of states. Now, man, Yes,

1899
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:42,120
Speaker 1: Kevin Murphy, you know what the American treasure. You just

1900
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:45,519
Speaker 1: got to get that joint technique down right, Kevin. If

1901
01:52:45,560 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 1: you spent enough time here with your dogs, do you

1902
01:52:48,439 --> 01:52:54,439
Speaker 1: think your dogs would would adapt to the landscape? And second,

1903
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 1: if you took them back to your home, do you

1904
01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:01,599
Speaker 1: think they would perform better? Wor that's a good question.

1905
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:04,000
Speaker 1: That like that, that's a great question. Would they be

1906
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:13,479
Speaker 1: like ship? You know we left out? Uh, let's see

1907
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:15,680
Speaker 1: last Saturday, we could go Saturday. It was got up

1908
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:20,080
Speaker 1: as a minus four degrees windshield and I had two

1909
01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:24,160
Speaker 1: friends down and was gonna go squirrel hunting. And we

1910
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:28,160
Speaker 1: had I think fourteen days below thirty degrees. It was

1911
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:29,920
Speaker 1: a coach spell for us. I think it was like

1912
01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:32,639
Speaker 1: the fourth longest song record from so and so there.

1913
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 1: But it was the sun was warming up and the

1914
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:42,519
Speaker 1: I thought the squirrels would come out. So I told

1915
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:44,360
Speaker 1: my friends, said, let's just wait untill about dinner time.

1916
01:53:44,400 --> 01:53:48,679
Speaker 1: So we went out and we we killed some squirrels.

1917
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:53,360
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if I stayed down here for

1918
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:56,240
Speaker 1: a month or so and figured out, I think my

1919
01:53:56,320 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: dogs would get better. I feel if I raised a

1920
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,920
Speaker 1: narration of dogs out of those same dogs, they would

1921
01:54:02,920 --> 01:54:05,360
Speaker 1: have no trouble down here with some tough one booty. Yeah,

1922
01:54:05,439 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 1: I think they'd get tough enough with that. But you know,

1923
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 1: my dogs are used to running in muck and my

1924
01:54:10,880 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 1: in leaf letter, not abrasive grit and gravel, and used

1925
01:54:17,560 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 1: to all these sornings. You know, they'll go right through

1926
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,800
Speaker 1: BlackBerry bushes, the brambles, no problems at all. You know,

1927
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 1: a little short but these long mesquite Yeah, I don't

1928
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:29,120
Speaker 1: think so, but I think they would get better. I

1929
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 1: don't think they would be ever be great, but I

1930
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:35,640
Speaker 1: think I could raise or litteral pups down here. Now

1931
01:54:35,680 --> 01:54:37,360
Speaker 1: if I took those back home, I think they would

1932
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: be lost. Oh yeah, because they're not used to the

1933
01:54:41,080 --> 01:54:43,080
Speaker 1: water unless I trained that went to the rivers and

1934
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:47,160
Speaker 1: got them accustomed to swim. And Jesson started Kevin Murphy

1935
01:54:47,240 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: Southwest Division and happy to be that you have a

1936
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:54,440
Speaker 1: division of you that lives here with rabbit dogs. I

1937
01:54:54,480 --> 01:54:58,160
Speaker 1: would love to hear from some local rabbit hunter, beagle

1938
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:00,280
Speaker 1: guy or somebody that frequents here. I got known the

1939
01:55:00,320 --> 01:55:03,200
Speaker 1: Internet and looked around and tried to find rabbit hunting

1940
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:07,040
Speaker 1: in New Mexico with dogs. There was nothing. That's why

1941
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 1: I was so intrigued by it. When you brought it up,

1942
01:55:09,080 --> 01:55:11,480
Speaker 1: I was like, not only yes, but hell yes, because

1943
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:13,960
Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody doing that before. I got another

1944
01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:17,520
Speaker 1: I got another follow up question for you, Kevin, Based

1945
01:55:17,560 --> 01:55:21,320
Speaker 1: on what you now know with your beagles, what do

1946
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:25,120
Speaker 1: you feel what happened? Would you be more or less

1947
01:55:25,240 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about bringing out your squirrel dogs for abert squirrels

1948
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:32,080
Speaker 1: or would you be like, I've learned my lesson ain't

1949
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I'm coming because I've got I've got not

1950
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 1: even tell me about it, abert sons of bitches. Okay,

1951
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:47,400
Speaker 1: here's the difference. Here's the difference. You didn't get invite.

1952
01:55:47,680 --> 01:55:50,400
Speaker 1: We'll plan our own trip. Man, get some real squirrel

1953
01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:53,360
Speaker 1: man out here. Bagel is and the way you want

1954
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:59,000
Speaker 1: to bagel nos nos pretty much nine. That's what it uses.

1955
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:00,800
Speaker 1: It's using. And that was where if you've got a

1956
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:03,920
Speaker 1: good squirrel dog, it's using its ears. It's no in

1957
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:07,400
Speaker 1: its eyes. So if we go with those big ponderosa pines,

1958
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:10,680
Speaker 1: they're the squirrel dogs that I have, we'll be able

1959
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:13,480
Speaker 1: to see those and so when they see them, they're

1960
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:15,480
Speaker 1: gonna be able to tree them. They're not gonna have

1961
01:56:15,480 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 1: to worry about them jump into the next pine tree. Right.

1962
01:56:19,120 --> 01:56:20,880
Speaker 1: I mean the landscapes as saying I haven't seen it

1963
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:23,320
Speaker 1: in person, but just looking they're going to be in

1964
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:26,840
Speaker 1: that probably you feel you'd have more luck. Yes, yeah, yeah,

1965
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm coming. You know I'm gonna do that, dude.

1966
01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:30,880
Speaker 1: I want to go so bad. I can't lef you

1967
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,000
Speaker 1: guys and tell me, let's do it. I did tell

1968
01:56:33,040 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 1: you about you did not be like, oh, I'm planning

1969
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:43,480
Speaker 1: a trip with Kevin for squirrels. Well that's completely different.

1970
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:46,680
Speaker 1: At least was exposed to that place anybody, you know,

1971
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:49,000
Speaker 1: But I was exposed to planning. Wasn't like they just

1972
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:52,560
Speaker 1: sneaking off in the bushes and planning up avert squirrel hunts. Not.

1973
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:55,720
Speaker 1: We'll see how things shake out and we'll call you

1974
01:56:55,800 --> 01:57:00,440
Speaker 1: if you know it's room. I think that would be

1975
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:03,320
Speaker 1: an amazing thing to try to do. I bet it

1976
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:06,400
Speaker 1: would really work. I bet it work a lot better

1977
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:10,600
Speaker 1: than beagles. There's gonna be a lot less rocks, cactuses,

1978
01:57:10,720 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 1: Pokey's yeah, and in the audio the audio visual, it's interesting.

1979
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:20,960
Speaker 1: Now that's a good point. Oh right, man, Kevin, thank

1980
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 1: you very much for coming out. Appreciate that you're you're

1981
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:28,480
Speaker 1: an inspiration to me as an adventuring spirit, you'd like

1982
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:30,720
Speaker 1: to go do stuff. I like to go out and live.

1983
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm in the fourth quarter of my life and i

1984
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:36,160
Speaker 1: want to see the world. You know. I find it amazing.

1985
01:57:36,280 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking out and seeing things and I'm asking, like,

1986
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:42,080
Speaker 1: Jeremy soon, what kind of plant is this here? What

1987
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:45,800
Speaker 1: is this animal mound? Here? So, I mean, those small

1988
01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 1: things intrigued me. And I'm just not about going, you know,

1989
01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:50,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill this animal or this one. I want

1990
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:53,640
Speaker 1: to see everything that's out there and try to figure

1991
01:57:53,680 --> 01:57:55,520
Speaker 1: it out and try to put it together. I mean,

1992
01:57:55,640 --> 01:57:59,120
Speaker 1: I just love the world, how Mother Nature makes things

1993
01:57:59,240 --> 01:58:02,880
Speaker 1: all interact, the desert quail. To see those things out there,

1994
01:58:03,040 --> 01:58:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, what's it gonna take to make them things fly? Jeremy,

1995
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean, are they half a road runner? You know?

1996
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 1: I got into two bunches of them. I soul you guys,

1997
01:58:11,160 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 1: you know, pushing those down, and they were just like running, running, running.

1998
01:58:15,080 --> 01:58:17,600
Speaker 1: And I saw a covey the other day and I

1999
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:19,480
Speaker 1: tried to get on top of them, and I just

2000
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:21,600
Speaker 1: saw them one time and they was gone in a

2001
01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:25,080
Speaker 1: little drain area over by the two water tanks. But yeah, yeah,

2002
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed this very much. And I was telling a

2003
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:31,760
Speaker 1: dirt there day yesterday, and Dirt was saying if I

2004
01:58:31,960 --> 01:58:36,240
Speaker 1: asked if I was the kind of person that felt

2005
01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:39,800
Speaker 1: things will always just work out. And I explained the

2006
01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:43,800
Speaker 1: dirt that that no, think. I was saying, you need

2007
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:49,280
Speaker 1: to wake up every day paranoid. And he said, but

2008
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:53,560
Speaker 1: if you try, they'll always work out. And I said, oh, absolutely, man,

2009
01:58:53,680 --> 01:58:57,080
Speaker 1: I think if you uh, I think that we live

2010
01:58:57,120 --> 01:59:00,800
Speaker 1: in a land of tremendous opportunity. And I was like,

2011
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:05,000
Speaker 1: if you apply yourself and try hard and focus, things

2012
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:07,680
Speaker 1: will work out for you. But then I brought up that.

2013
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:09,400
Speaker 1: I was like, there's a thing that happens to people

2014
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:12,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't get talked about. Is so many of the

2015
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 1: people I know that eventually fall into uh not it

2016
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:20,360
Speaker 1: not working out for them so often, is uh they

2017
01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:24,240
Speaker 1: become piste off and bitter like. No one talks about

2018
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:27,120
Speaker 1: the nothing, no one talks about it. There's a real

2019
01:59:27,240 --> 01:59:31,000
Speaker 1: problem with becoming piste off and bitter like. It happens

2020
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:35,800
Speaker 1: to people and then it's just downhill. And the thing

2021
01:59:35,880 --> 01:59:38,560
Speaker 1: I like about you is how optimistic you are, like

2022
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:40,080
Speaker 1: you gotta go and you you gotta go in and

2023
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:41,800
Speaker 1: get a whole new damn knee and then get better

2024
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:44,880
Speaker 1: and go get a whole another knee can be fixed

2025
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:47,840
Speaker 1: and you're not even remotely irritated by this because it

2026
01:59:47,880 --> 01:59:51,120
Speaker 1: can be fixed. A part of life, I mean, as

2027
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:53,800
Speaker 1: human beings, we have the power to believe in something

2028
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:56,960
Speaker 1: better that's out there and that we have the power

2029
01:59:57,000 --> 01:59:59,840
Speaker 1: to go after it. That separates us from the animal kingdom.

2030
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Animal kingdom just does it's just instinct. I've got to

2031
02:00:04,480 --> 02:00:07,280
Speaker 1: get some nuts buried up. But we have the power

2032
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: to look out there and say, hey, I can build this,

2033
02:00:09,480 --> 02:00:13,040
Speaker 1: I can do this. I can go over there aspirational. Yes, yeah,

2034
02:00:13,120 --> 02:00:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean we can. We can imagine things that are

2035
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:19,080
Speaker 1: not there. You know. I feel like if my knee failed,

2036
02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:21,400
Speaker 1: I would I mean I would battle it out, but

2037
02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 1: I would have a problem with turning piste off. It's

2038
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 1: just in my d n A arthritis runs into my family, um,

2039
02:00:29,720 --> 02:00:31,400
Speaker 1: and it's just part of life. I mean, I'll be

2040
02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:35,600
Speaker 1: sixty two in September, and it's just you know, I've

2041
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:37,720
Speaker 1: got a lot of wear and tear on that knee,

2042
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:42,680
Speaker 1: playing sports, walking being outside. It's just I've used it

2043
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:46,720
Speaker 1: and I can get it fixed. Um, you know, I've

2044
02:00:46,760 --> 02:00:49,000
Speaker 1: got it on the healing phase of the moon. So

2045
02:00:49,160 --> 02:00:52,360
Speaker 1: every card I can play, I'm gonna play. I've got

2046
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,000
Speaker 1: a really good doctor that cares about me. I'm putting

2047
02:00:55,440 --> 02:01:01,600
Speaker 1: eighteen inch suer line through his backyard. Just ther No,

2048
02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:03,840
Speaker 1: this is part of a project. If we couldn't get

2049
02:01:03,880 --> 02:01:06,040
Speaker 1: easy with on some people through there, and they wanted

2050
02:01:06,040 --> 02:01:07,360
Speaker 1: me to go, Breck was gonna have to take out

2051
02:01:07,400 --> 02:01:10,120
Speaker 1: some treaties or something. So uh, I said, I've got

2052
02:01:10,200 --> 02:01:12,000
Speaker 1: to go get an injection. So maybe I'm sitting on

2053
02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:15,880
Speaker 1: my schedule my knee surgery so I can maybe get

2054
02:01:15,960 --> 02:01:17,440
Speaker 1: to talk to him. In the contract, we wanted me

2055
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:19,240
Speaker 1: to talk to him because I had to get an

2056
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:22,680
Speaker 1: easement from a former mayor that that I used to

2057
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:24,560
Speaker 1: work for, and they wanted me to go in there

2058
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:27,400
Speaker 1: and talk to him. So I got it, and um,

2059
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, the world's about politics making deals. Sitting here,

2060
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 1: you're saying what you would need to say. I say

2061
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:35,600
Speaker 1: what I need and we come to a conclusion there

2062
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:38,320
Speaker 1: for good of me and you both and are everybody,

2063
02:01:38,440 --> 02:01:41,360
Speaker 1: and that's the way we need to stay. But I

2064
02:01:41,560 --> 02:01:43,480
Speaker 1: was going through there, and then one neighbor comes up

2065
02:01:43,520 --> 02:01:46,000
Speaker 1: to me and says, let me tell you something about

2066
02:01:47,560 --> 02:01:50,280
Speaker 1: Dr Ptel. He's my doctor. I don't mind saying his name.

2067
02:01:50,360 --> 02:01:53,600
Speaker 1: He's really I really love him. He says, you know,

2068
02:01:53,800 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 1: if you've got a doctor, you don't want a doctor

2069
02:01:56,120 --> 02:01:59,520
Speaker 1: that's a big duck hunter or a farmer or wants

2070
02:01:59,560 --> 02:02:02,800
Speaker 1: to be an artists. You want a doctor that likes

2071
02:02:02,880 --> 02:02:06,160
Speaker 1: to make people well. He said, that's what Dr Betel is.

2072
02:02:06,760 --> 02:02:08,880
Speaker 1: So I just kind of kept my mouth shutting never

2073
02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:10,320
Speaker 1: you know, not until he got the end, because I

2074
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:12,080
Speaker 1: was all ears waiting to see what he had to

2075
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 1: say about Dr Mattel. And then he said that. That

2076
02:02:14,920 --> 02:02:18,600
Speaker 1: really made me charge up and say, hey, yeah, I've

2077
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:21,360
Speaker 1: made the right, right decision on the doctor. And like

2078
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:24,760
Speaker 1: I said, a friend of mine, he's eighty one, had

2079
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:27,200
Speaker 1: a heart vowel replacement. They were gonna put in four

2080
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:30,120
Speaker 1: stints in him. He picked out the right healing moonface

2081
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:32,760
Speaker 1: for the heart and went in there and come out

2082
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:35,480
Speaker 1: of the operation with a new heart valve in two

2083
02:02:35,600 --> 02:02:38,120
Speaker 1: stints in there. And I'll see him Monday night at

2084
02:02:38,160 --> 02:02:41,520
Speaker 1: the LBL Sportsman Club meeting. And he's still guiding at

2085
02:02:41,560 --> 02:02:44,520
Speaker 1: eighty one. He's a fish guide. Mike, You might want

2086
02:02:44,520 --> 02:02:47,080
Speaker 1: to want him. You'd be better be glad that he

2087
02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:49,480
Speaker 1: knows a Kentucky and not New Mexico because he would

2088
02:02:49,480 --> 02:02:54,960
Speaker 1: wear your ass out. So um, you know, we all

2089
02:02:55,200 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 1: have that pire to wake up in the morning and

2090
02:02:57,280 --> 02:03:01,600
Speaker 1: go out and do something good, you know, and work,

2091
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:06,320
Speaker 1: whether you volunteer, if you go through your life, I'm

2092
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:08,400
Speaker 1: gonna continue working. That's something I've just seen in the

2093
02:03:08,480 --> 02:03:11,800
Speaker 1: last couple of years. I thought, when I retire, I'm

2094
02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:14,560
Speaker 1: going to retire and go hunting and fishing and stuff. Well,

2095
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:17,320
Speaker 1: you can only do so much hunting and fishing, really can't.

2096
02:03:17,320 --> 02:03:19,400
Speaker 1: And the older you get, the less you got. I mean,

2097
02:03:19,400 --> 02:03:21,440
Speaker 1: I see Jeremy out here. I said, how much guess

2098
02:03:21,520 --> 02:03:23,400
Speaker 1: you got left? And you tank? You said, it's it's full.

2099
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:29,520
Speaker 1: It's always full. It's off. So you know, I can remember,

2100
02:03:29,560 --> 02:03:31,240
Speaker 1: I said, I can remember days like that. But I'm

2101
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:32,800
Speaker 1: not like that anymore. I just want to go out

2102
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 1: and and do my thing and watch other people hunt.

2103
02:03:37,640 --> 02:03:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't have to kill something every single time that

2104
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:41,120
Speaker 1: I go out. I don't have to get the limit.

2105
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:44,360
Speaker 1: If I can just get one, I'm completely satisfied. That's

2106
02:03:44,400 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: all I have to do. But yeah, it's good to

2107
02:03:47,840 --> 02:03:51,520
Speaker 1: keep a good positive attitude, and that's what I'm gonna

2108
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:53,680
Speaker 1: try to do to the end of my life. You know,

2109
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:57,880
Speaker 1: it's just work. Be out in the dirt, outside, out

2110
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:05,520
Speaker 1: in nature, and just leave it damn straight. I like it.

2111
02:04:05,800 --> 02:04:12,320
Speaker 1: Kevin Murphy, thanks so much, Kevin, Thanks everyone for joining.

2112
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:13,280
Speaker 1: See you soon.