WEBVTT - Six MLB Teams Sidelined to Limit Coronavirus Spread 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.959 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts the more than a 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.959 hundred and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.079 Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.280 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.159 Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.720 YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. You are listening to 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.239 Bloomberg Business Week. Jason Kelly and Scarlet Food here with 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.440 you on a Friday, and as we do on most Fridays, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.080 certainly the Friday's that we like the most, we check 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.080 in with Ian LUs Bader. He is a doctor and 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.440 Clinical Associo Professor of Medicine at n y U Lane 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.520 Gones Medical Center, joining us on the phone from New 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.520 York City. Ian, It's always a treat to catch up 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:00.480 with you, and I do want to thank you, as 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.960 I always do, or as I always think I should 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.480 uh for all your good advice and council throughout this pandemic. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.240 You've really been a valuable voice to us and we 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.639 really appreciate it. Very kind. Thanks, and it's great to 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.400 be with you, and it's great to try and contribute 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.160 to some knowledge and understanding of a of a challenging area. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:22.480 And welcome Scarlett, and always good to speak to you. Jason. 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.679 So where are we right now? I mean here we are. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.120 It's the end of July, the last day of July. Here. 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.880 I think back to the conversations that we've had over 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:37.920 these months, and while the overall picture doesn't seem great, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.480 certainly nationally, I feel like if you went but if 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.840 we went back and told ourselves in you know, our 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.040 sort of may selves are April selves, certainly this is 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.560 where we'd be in New York City and its environs, 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.280 we we'd probably feel pretty good about this. I agree. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.040 I think certainly the northeastern New York has made great strides, 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.160 and it does look like they're there were waves passing 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:03.960 through the rest of the country, but certainly in the 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.920 northeast here New York. Back in Uh, March and April 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.000 was a ghost town, and hospitals were overloaded. The entire 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.840 medical centers were really overrun, completely overrun with COVID patients 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.959 and and regular medical care was not really being done. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.880 This was some of the issues that Dr Faucian Redfield 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:29.240 addressed today and the congressional hearings, and much regular medical 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.480 care was not being done. Uh. And there were probably 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.800 a number of deaths that we could attribute not to 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.919 COVID but for people just being either afraid to come 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.360 in or not coming in. And I think one of 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.320 the big issues as we have had cases drop, at 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.240 least in the Northeast, is you know, reopening and getting 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.040 back to school, and and a lot of that was 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.800 addressed by Faucci and Redfield too, with the challenge of 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.120 teachers and students um needing and wanting to some degree 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.920 to get back, but also some fear about that as well. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.079 You described it as a ghost town back in March 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:04.679 and April. I would argue it's still kind of a 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.839 ghost town. I come into the city every day and 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.120 just outside of the office there are cars, but not 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.600 that many, and there are very few people wandering around. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.320 Once people do come back, we know a lot of 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.000 people fled town. They've gone to summer homes, the Hampton's 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.760 or just outside of New York once they start to 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.800 come back because of school, because things are starting to normalize. 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.600 What kind of pick up in the infection rate do 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.240 you think we might anticipate or am I getting ahead 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.400 of myself here, If we take the proper precautions, maybe 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.680 we won't get a pick up. Well, I think that's 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.720 a very fair question, Scarlet, And to me, certainly, I've 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.600 been in the office every day since January and looking 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.960 out the window and walking down the streets. It's definitely busier. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.920 I agree we're not back up to sort of our 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:54.440 baseline frenzy in Manhattan, but certainly dramatically busier. And I 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.800 think it's unclear getting back to the office and getting 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.040 back to school. But I would echo what Fauci and 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.760 red Field um talked about, which were really sort of 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.040 those five principles. You know, if people wear masks and 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.680 avoid crowds, doing reasonable social distancing, which not every office 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.359 has easily available, people will have to perhaps reconfigure a 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:23.559 bit handwashing, avoiding yelling and uh loud speaking, in other words, 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:28.159 aerosolizing potential viral particles. I think we can reasonably get 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.760 back to business. Um. There will have to be some accommodation, 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.080 certainly in school. That may be smaller classrooms or alternate days, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.080 or we're hybrid learning. But overall, I think we can 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.360 do that, and I think we should do that. You're right, 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.359 there may be some pick up. We haven't really seen 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:51.800 that yet. We will know, unfortunately by increased hospitalizations, but 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.360 at this point it seems certainly very safe to let 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.440 people back to a more normal life. Ian. What's the 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.720 most important headline in your estimation this week when it 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.200 comes to either therapeutics or vaccines. What did you learn 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.400 this week that we need to go into the weekend 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.480 thinking and talking about. Well, I think we're seeing uh, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:19.360 incremental um progress really in a variety of fronts. And 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.680 that is the articles have come out about the origin 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.080 of COVID nineteen, which I don't think necessarily changes our 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.600 treatment at this point, but it does look genetically like 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.200 this really did originate in bats, and uh, that's sort 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.640 of off the radar for most of us. We don't 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.240 really think about that, but it does highlight that there 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.240 are some changes like wet markets and so forth that 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.520 probably we're really uh the source of this, although there's 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.880 still some questions about you know, virology lab or or 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.280 or potentially a lab leak, but it does seem at 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.200 least based on some studies, that this really did originate 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.880 as a as a virus and bats and whether or 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:02.840 not modification or other things occurred. UM. In addition, there 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.520 was a recent article on masks. This did exclude the US, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.800 but in many other countries there was an observational study 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.440 that really showed people who wear masks have a much 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.960 lower incidence of touching their face and that seems to 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.039 be a significant contributor to reducing the spread. While we're 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:26.560 waiting for more therapeutics like monoclonal antibodies which also have 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.560 a lot of UM promise in addition to vaccines, and 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.440 we're also making progress on the vaccine front, you know, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:38.400 phase three trials thirty patients, and I'm very optimistic about 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.960 that Faucia is and what you was involved in one 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:45.400 of those studies, UM, and I think for sure by 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.240 December January, probably February at the latest, will really have 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.920 a vaccine that has been tested and hopefully should be safe. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.120 And then we have to see what people take it. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.000 That will be It's a huge question. All right, stick 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.880 with us, Dr Ian LUs Bader. We've gotten more to 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.719 talk about, including sports. We want to get your take 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.720 on a lot of headlines Scarlet and I have been 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.040 following when it comes to Major League Baseball, especially as 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.960 sports get underway. Kind of, let's get back to our 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.120 conversation with Dr Ian LUs Bader from ny us lingun 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.240 Medical Center. So, Ian, talk to us about sports. You've 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.720 seen the same headlines we have, especially especially excuse me, 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.480 around major League baseball. How worried are you that we're 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.480 not going to see a full baseball season here? Well, 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.560 everyone is concerned about how to safely get back to 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.400 normal activities, whether it's the office, whether it's you know, patients, 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:42.040 whether it's sports. Uh, and it's unfortunately going to be 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:47.840 somewhat imperfect. Fortunately, baseball in sports is important. It's not 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.600 necessarily an essential service, but people really do need it 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.480 to relax and unwind and really take their mind offul 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.040 lot of the stresses and strange. So there are a 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.200 variety of approaches that we use for testing. One, patients 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.400 may come in and say, look, I was sick two 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.400 weeks ago, or three weeks ago or a month ago, Uh, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.200 did I have COVID? We do an antibody test, and 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.520 if it's positive, that's pretty assuring. Now, those antibodies do 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.960 drop off over time, so if someone says five months 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.840 ago I was sick, a negative antibody test really is 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.080 not that helpful. And we also do swab tests or 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.160 other tests that really detect whether the virus is present 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.720 in the nose or in the far yanx, or is 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.679 it communicable, And those can be helpful to test before 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.680 you travel, before you come back to work, before you 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.480 play in a sports game. Now, again, you can have 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.800 people who are asymptomatic feel fine and harbord the virus. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.439 A number of young, healthy people do that, so uh. 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.120 And of course baseball is not necessarily a high contact 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.320 sport unlike football, and people may have the virus, but 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.559 they may have acquired it elsewhere from families or the community, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.640 so it's not It's not that baseball itself may be 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.680 necessarily risky. But people have normal lives outside of baseball. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.040 But I think if we test people and we get 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.120 these results back anywhere from ten minutes to twenty four 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.800 hours later, I think if we can test a player 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.760 and say the day before as we do before, say 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.600 Colonoscar Bees. Uh, if they're negative, then I think it's 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.760 reasonable for them to engage in in h in the 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.480 sport right now, Mike will take a lot of testing 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.400 right now. My understanding according to reports is that the 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.160 MLB is testing players every other day, but the results 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.880 typically come in about thirty six hours later. So in 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.840 the meantime, those players are continuing to do their normal routine, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.160 which includes traveling to other cities to play against other teams, 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.320 and then they have to backtrack later on if they 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.840 find out anything. I mean, this is a league that 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.760 can afford to test its players every other day. What 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.760 does it say about our ability to get youth sports 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.520 back online again? If clearly youth sports are not going 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.480 to test players until there's a reason to, until the 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.720 family member brings someone to the doctor's office because they 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.000 suspect that there is something going on. That's a that's 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.120 a great question, right, So typically we say, well, what 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.360 are we going to do with the result? So if 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.560 you are positive or negative, if you feel fine, are 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.680 we going to do anything differently? So, if someone is 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.040 sick a respiratory infection, cought diarrhea, fever, you know, any 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.480 of those classic symptoms. Yes, it's very helpful to do 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.520 a swab and say you have it, and you may 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.040 manage the patient differently. You're right in terms of dollars 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.000 and cents. It can get very expensive to test people constantly, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.600 and most sports don't have that ability. I think for 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.120 youth sports there there are two things. One um, the 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:45.520 more testing the better. But if a kid really is sick, fortunately, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.079 they tend to do better than older people. It's not 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.679 like fifty or sixty or seven year olds who have 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.920 a much much higher risk. I'm not saying they're at 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.320 zero risk. I'm just saying that overall, kids tend to 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.719 do better. On the other hand, of you know, they 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:02.760 may have to have fewer games. They may have to 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.320 test and wait thirty six hours and then schedule a 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.400 game for everyone, you know, twice a week. Playing every 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.840 day may not may not be realistic. Yeah, there's so 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.800 many big questions. I feel like we're still finding our 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.280 way here for sure. Dr Ia lest made a great 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.520 to catch up with you. Thank you so much for 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.439 your time. As always, Clinical Associate Professor of Medicine at 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.680 ny US, Lango Medical Center. Well, I have to say, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.320 if the vacation Carol Master were here, she would classify 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.600 this as a wait what sort of story. It is 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.720 an amazing read. Danielle book Of wrote it. She is 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.559 a reporter for Bloomberg News, but I have to say 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.840 that title is actually outdated. As of this week, she 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.440 has just been named our new Toronto ber chief. So 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:49.000 congratulations to on that huge job and well deserved. She 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.360 joins us from Toronto, and Joel Weber, the editor Bloomberg 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.800 Business Week, he joins us as well. So Joel t 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.640 this up for us because this is an incredible story 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:04.160 about up golden hands. What yeah, do we get your 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.680 interest there? Um? You know, this has actually been sort 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.800 of months in the works, and you know, then the 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.080 pandemic hit and everything got weird. But the moment that 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.920 we uh that that Danny pitched the story, we were like, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.599 wait what. So we got to rewind the clock a 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.040 little bit. And in the early two thousands, Nelson Mandela 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.679 to South African icon UM had uh you know basically 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:32.280 uh you know, become an international icon and UM as 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.080 part of that um, some people cast his hands in 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.080 South Africa and the ideal was that they were going 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:45.200 to turn his these castings into uh, precious metals, gold 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.400 and others that they would be able to kind of 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.200 show around the world and really kind of like, you know, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.800 make his legacy be something that everyone could actually see 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.920 in person. So, uh that happened, and uh then it 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.719 kind of went sideways because he said, you know, I 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.160 don't want to be affiliated with this anymore, and I'm 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.599 going to turn over to Danny. There because there was 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.840 an art collector who stepped in and was like, you know, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.240 there's only a couple of these around, I'm gonna go 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.360 ahead and just put them all together and make a set. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.640 So Danny, who was this guy and where did the 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.760 story go from there? So his name was Malcolm Duncan 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.160 and I actually met him two years ago, so it 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.520 goes back even further in I was approached by a 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:31.360 PR firm representing this South African businessman, Malcolm Duncan, uh, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.800 and they were trying to drum up publicity for a sale. 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.800 And at the time they had attempted to fire Arbitrayed, 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.560 which was a Canadian cryptocurrency company, and at least part 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:44.559 of the payment for these golden hands of Nelson Mandela 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.040 was going to be in bitcoin, So even then it 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.200 was just a bizarre story. And I actually did a 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.360 short article about the sale at the time, but I 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:53.920 didn't have a lot of time to dig into the 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.440 back story, and if it's sort of became one of 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.760 those stories that you sort of regret never having delved 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.520 into who as deeply as you could have. Then earlier 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.560 this year, um Guernsey's auction house reached out to me 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.040 through another PR firm to say that they were planning 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.880 this spectacular event at Jazz at Lincoln Center to introduce 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.439 these amazing objects to the world. They were going to 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.680 auction them off and what I like to cover the auction, 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.080 So I called Malcolm back. I found out that the 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.360 ARBITRTE deal had shockingly collapsed disastrously. I got more of 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.720 that backstory, and uh, it just became one of those 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.960 stories where the more I found out about these things, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.720 the more interesting I got. So what fascinates me here 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:36.480 is that you would think there's a lot of demand 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.520 for things that are linked to uh Nelson Mandela and 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.520 also for gold, given where gold prices are trading. But 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.760 it's been hard for Malcolm Duncan to get a lot 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:51.720 of interest for these Golden Hands. Why is that there's 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:56.560 been a real um taint around Mandela Art. I think 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.840 when he was initially released from prison after twenty years 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.400 twenty seven years in prison. Um, this whole kind of 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:08.720 cottage industry sprang up around Mandela Art. And you know, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.080 he had done his own art, but but people were 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.640 slapping his names on everything. At at at a certain point 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:15.760 he got fed up with it. He shut it down. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.960 There were a lot of lawsuits and I think to 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.160 this day people in fact get quite uncomfortable when you 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.000 bring up the whole tawdry mess of Mandela Art in 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:29.280 South Africa. Um. So because of that, there there have 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.400 been plans to make just a ton of these things 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.480 that they were gonna be in silver and bronze. There 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.920 was gonna be one for every day of every year 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.800 that he'd been in prison. As far as we know, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.000 and and harmony has confirmed this. Duncan is believed to 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:47.320 have the only surviving copies which are these four gold hands. Um. 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.080 And you're right, I mean the I was there for 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.440 two days at the auction. It wasn't well advertised, but 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.040 very few people came out. What struck me though as 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.200 amazing was those people who who did come out just 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.200 how moves they were by these things. So Danny, I 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.960 have to ask about the auction and tell us what 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.680 went down and where things stand now. Okay, So the 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:19.440 auction was a very bizarre situation. As I said, I 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.480 was there for two days. You know, not very many 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.880 people came came around those and this was early early March, 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.520 New York, pre pandemic. Yeah, so you know, to paint 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.040 the scene, you imagine it's at jazz at Lincoln Center. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.160 So it's this beautiful, beautiful venue, dark red sort of 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.960 jazz playing softly. These things are in these cases lit 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.760 from above, uh, and the room is absolutely empty. People 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.280 drift in from time to time. A lot of them 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.360 are actually moved to tears when they see them, which 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.240 was quite something to watch. But most of the people 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.600 that I saw there over the two days were actually 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.640 people who had skinned the games. They were they were 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.280 people associated with the auction. Um, you know, one of 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.760 one of the investors of Arbitrary who now owns two 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.719 of the hands. The ownership of these things was quite complicated. 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.040 So the auction happens um only two of the hands 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.200 sale cell. Everybody's feeling quite flat afterwards. And then suddenly, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.840 like at the happens hour, Um, somebody's on the phone 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.840 and it's the buyer and he says, actually he'll take 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.520 the other two as well. So this mysterious buyer on 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.960 the phone ends up paying more for all of the 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.080 hands than he could have got them for fifteen minutes 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.520 earlier had he just bought them during the auction. It 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.720 was just bizarre. Everything was shocked. The auctioneer said he 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.920 had to sit down. Nobody had seen anything like this 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.960 and it seemed like this great, perfect ending to my story. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:52.080 Except Malcolm Duncan never got paid. And so the twist 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.399 is just like you keep you get You're like, okay, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:55.840 well that I mean, it's like one of these like 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.159 thrillers where it's like but wait, I mean, it's crazy. 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.840 It It was really crazy. And you know, you've got 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:09.040 to feel for Malcolm Duncan. He's like this incredibly colorful character. 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.520 He tells the most amazing stories. Uh, and he has 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.600 been trying to unload these hands for so many years. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.560 At this point, Um, last I spoke to him, the 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.320 Guernsey is the auction house says that even though the 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.880 buyer missed the deadline to pay. That that that possibility 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.760 is still out there, that that sale is still alive, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.840 it's still going to happen. Um, Malcolm is very doubtful 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.119 about this, but he thinks he may have an Italian 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.119 buyer on the line. We don't know much about that person. 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:44.159 Uh so. So yeah, not a lot of resolutions, but 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.879 it is. It is a tale fit for a Netflix series. 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.960 I'll just say that it is amazing. Danielle book of 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.000 She is our new Toronto beer chief, newly minted. Congratulations 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.080 on that. Congratulations on this story as well. As I 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.920 said to Danielle and I center him said earlier, it's 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:02.919 a heck of a week to have this story and 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.119 get that job. So congrats to her. It's a terrific rate. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.479 Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week, you are listening 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.600 to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, we've gotten very interested, especially 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.920 of late with the launch of Bloomberg Green In. What's 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.159 going on in the world is sustainable investing. Luckily for us, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.760 we have Chris McNett with us. He's cohead of sustainable 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.080 investing at Wells Fargo Asset Management, joining us on the 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:30.680 phone from San Francisco. So Chris, it feels like, first 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.439 of all, thank you for joining Scarlett and myself on 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.760 this Friday afternoon. It does feel like sustainable investing starting 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.120 to have a moment. I would guess you would argue 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.679 it's been having a moment for a while, but it 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.320 does feel like the aperture is widening a bit in 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.880 a good way, that more people are paying attention. Yeah, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.199 that's exactly right. And also it's it's a real pleasure 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.159 to be here. Um. I would say that, yes, you know, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:55.800 for those of us like me, we've been in this 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.679 space for a lot of years, it felt like it 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.640 feels like, you know, now we're almost sitting in an 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.600 inflection of point um where it's really getting into the mainstream. UM. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.679 And we've seen the demand really pulled up through you know, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.120 the really chop chop the market for the first part 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.439 of the year and really start to accelerate. And I 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.359 think there's a couple of reasons for that that we 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.080 can go into. Well, it usually comes down to performance 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.040 as well. I mean, along with people wanting to increase 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.840 their exposure to sustainable companies and e s G principles, 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.600 performance matters and usually in a E s G portfolio 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.119 portfolios are going to underwake companies in the energy sector 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.520 and perhaps load up on companies that are in the 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:39.680 tech sector. We have a market right now that is 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.920 all driven by technology, and when it does fall, it's 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.560 being led by energy stocks. How much how much technology 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.560 exposure does well as fargoes e. S G portfolio or 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:56.960 sustainable portfolio have, Yeah, I mean, it's performance does always 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.480 matter at the end of the day, um, And I 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.240 think that's what it's really starting to draw a lot 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.840 more interest, is that the performance of sustainable funds have 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.119 really held up particularly well, you know, not just here today, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.959 but even if you look across longer time periods. And 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.480 it's true that, um, you know, sustainable investing mindset might 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.520 lead you to underweight energy, and of course the way 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.800 that energy has performed, you know, blaked Um, that's kind 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.440 of been a winning trade. But a lot of the 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.880 outperformance is coming not from sector missuaits, but really from 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.679 looking at the sc credentials m and reflecting that in 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.120 security selection. So we really go sector by sector when 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.440 we analyze the s G. Rather than try and pick 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.400 over underweights two sectors, we really look at particular companies 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:48.280 and do that deep research. So, Chris, I do wonder, 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.720 you know, what's been the impact it either kind of 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:58.680 tonally or or demonstrably when are quantifiably I guess when 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:04.360 it comes to COVID nineteen and maybe a change in thinking. 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.240 You know, you reference some of the choppiness and the 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.960 volatility in the market. But I do wonder are people 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.120 reconsidering kind of where they're investing in how they're investing, 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:17.000 just given everything that's going on in the world. Yeah, 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.240 I mean that's exactly right. I think there was a 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.800 fair bit of commentary that so much of the growth 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.040 and in the s G marketplace happened since the global 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.080