1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: for tuning in. We are going toward the end of 4 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: the year. We couldn't be more excited. Uh and and 5 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of people post Thanksgiving, we're 6 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: we're sort of loosening our our figurative belts here this 7 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: this episode, this episode. 8 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: Oh even not just drop. 9 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: This episode needs a disclaimer, fellow Ridiculous Historians. It contains 10 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: some pretty bulls info well beyond PG thirteen. All true. 11 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: As such, it may not be appropriate for all the 12 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: kiddos and the loved ones in the crowd. 13 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: I would say, definitely not appropriate for anyone. It's like 14 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 3: what they say the beginning of South Park. It's just 15 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: this one is not for anyone that you shouldn't listen 16 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: to it. No, I'm kidding. If we aroused your curiosity, 17 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: well carry on, so be it. 18 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: Yes, shout out to our super producer, mister Max Williams. 19 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 1: I am what Ben Bola and you are, mister Noel Brown. 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: We are joined with a returning guest, the one the 21 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: only Alex Circa famous for having terrible taste in podcasts. 22 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here, alex So, I mean, yes, yes, 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: we have. We've talked about this one for a while, 24 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: and this is our episode about James Joyce. As you 25 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: could probably tell from the title, we're exploring a bit 26 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: of this guy's background beyond his law order than life 27 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: status as a literary icon. 28 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: And famous I patch wearer. Right, isn't he an eye 29 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: patch guy? 30 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: Terrible eyed, poor guy struggled with his eyesight? 31 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 3: Well, I always remember, like you know, there's like all 32 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: those kind of I guess they have him in all 33 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 3: of the locations of Barnes and Noble. In the cafe 34 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 3: of most Barnes and Nobles is a giant portrait of 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 3: James Joyce, and he's got like an eye patch and 36 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: his glasses on over the eye patch, and man if 37 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: if only those Barnes and Noble folks knew what this 38 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: guy got up to you, Maybe they do, and they're 39 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 3: just trying to, I don't know, expose people to some 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: of the darker sides of sexuality through their you know, 41 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: Starbucks decor. 42 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: That's how they get you. That's our new Moral Panic 43 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. You heard it here first. Yeah, it's weird. 44 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: The last time I was in Dublin, I realized that 45 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: no matter what store you go to in Dublin, they 46 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: are going to inevitably sell two things. One some copy 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: of a James Joyce book and to some sort of spirit, some. 48 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 4: Sort of liquor. 49 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Usually, weirdly enough, if they sell James Joyce books, they 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: also sell the whiskey Jamison like stationary stores, dude, like 51 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: the lawn care hardware store is also saying, hey, do 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: you want to copy a Dubliners Do you want to 53 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: be drunk while you trim the hedges? 54 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: You're gonna need to drink this entire bottle of Jamison 55 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: to wrap your head around Ulysses, Because man, that's a 56 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: tough read. And yet I believe considered to be one 57 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: of the greatest works of literature in the English language. 58 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: He's always kind of eluded me a little bit. I 59 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 3: don't know how you feel about. 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I mean, look, Joyce was not as prolific 61 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: as some other authors considered part of the Western canon. 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: But to your point, Noel, his work did inform, inspire, 63 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: continues to challenge and frankly confuse millions of people throughout 64 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: the world. 65 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 4: Today. 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: He's got a sort of dichotomy about him. There's the 67 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: public image on one hand, isolated, somewhat savant esque character, 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: imprisoned by his own genius, hiding away writing stories. One 69 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: of the you'll enjoy this one. One of the famous 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: recurring stories about James Joyce is that he would agonize 71 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: dude over three words and that would be his day. 72 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: And he famously, let's see you, famously tried to burn 73 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: stuff he had written, and his partner Nora, who we 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: will learn a lot more about today, save stuff from 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: the fire. One time he did a drive by to 76 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: drop off a manuscript to his editor and like literally 77 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: ram by the editor's house, threw it on the doorstep. 78 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 4: And ran away weeping. 79 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: He was in that. 80 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: World complex fellow contained multitudes. 81 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: That's the public image. 82 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 4: But we're talking about it, boy hattie. Let me tell 83 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 4: you what I found. 84 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 3: I mean, I like to think of myself as not 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 3: particularly a prudish person, but some of this stuff had 86 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 3: me blushing just reading the outline. Some of the exerts 87 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: from this guy's letters to his beloved, which we're going 88 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: to get to. James Joyce, to start with first things first, 89 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 3: was born in Ireland. James Augustine Aloysius my favorite names Joyce, Dublin, 90 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: February second, eighteen eighty two. He was the eldest of 91 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 3: ten children in his family to survive infancy, as we 92 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 3: know a lot of infant mortality back in the day, 93 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 3: and at age six he went to a boarding school, 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: a Jesuit boarding school called Gosh Klongow's. 95 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's might be right. 96 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: Clongows Would College, which was described as the Eton of Ireland. 97 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: I don't think I understand that reference, Ben, What is 98 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 3: Eton referencing? 99 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 4: So Eaton is. 100 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: Referencing one of the most prestigious or prestigious colleges, institutes 101 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: of higher learning in the United Kingdom. It's in Burghing. 102 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 4: So eventually James and his brother uh stanislass. 103 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: They're killing it with the names well done. 104 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 3: Get They both get admitted for free to this Jesuit 105 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 3: grammar school called Belvidere College. From there he goes on 106 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 3: to University College Dublin, uh and also studies under the Jesuits, 107 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: which of course is a very you know, stoic religious order. 108 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: When you drop kick your jacket and you gave through 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: the door. I love mister Belvidere. 110 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 3: Oh mister Belvidge, drop kick your jacket. Uh huh, that's 111 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: a little I never knew the lyrics of that song. Wow, 112 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 3: it's weird to me that I learned them. But you 113 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 3: know you're a fan of sitcom theme tunes that tell 114 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: the tale of the story before even the first thing. 115 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, well. 116 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 5: Listens to them by himself when we're not around. Yes, 117 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 5: I know that from my surveillance stuff that I. 118 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 4: Put into his new apartment. Yes, thank you, thank you. 119 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: Keep anythithiasists? 120 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: Sure, sure, and so James Joyce studies languages the way 121 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: that we study the Halcyon era of sitcom themes that 122 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: explain themselves. He without hyperbole. This guy reads absolutely everything 123 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: he could get his hands on. He does, however, prioritize 124 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: reading the stuff the Jesuits don't want him to read. 125 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: M m, yeah, that does kind of ring true. On 126 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: October thirty first, nineteen oh two, he graduates with a 127 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: bachelor degree, and all, all of the while, he's just 128 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: writing away, writing, writing, writing. Britannica puts it thusly. He 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 3: wrote verses and experimented with short prose passages that he 130 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: called epiphanies, a word the Joyce used to describe his 131 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: accounts of moments when the real truth about some person 132 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: or object was revealed, A. 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: Little less sooteric, a little less aoteric, Baby Jay. He 134 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: also is like many people in this situation, many artists 135 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: then and now. He is struggling to find a way 136 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: to pay the bills while he is pursuing what he 137 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: feels is his true noble vocation. He dabbles with medicine. 138 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: He studies at this San Genevieve library. His mother falls 139 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: ill in nineteen oh three, and so in April of 140 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: that year he returns to Dublin and he moves around 141 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: town trying like different occupations, and just like we see 142 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: with so many other very talented people, he's like a 143 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: compass and he's swinging wildly. It takes a second for 144 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: him to find his true north. Around this time, he 145 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: starts writing an autobiographical novel. It's called Stephen Hero and 146 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that more in a sec and it's 147 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: largely ignored by both him and the world. This big 148 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: break doesn't occurred on nineteen oh four, when he gets 149 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: his first writing job. 150 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: That's right, he gets a gig as a working writer 151 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: for the Irish Homestead. He gets paid I believe a 152 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: British pound per short story that he submits to this publication. 153 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: Then in June of nineteen oh four, June tenth, he 154 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: meets the love of his life, one Nora Barnacle. 155 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 4: Sounds like a made up character in a. 156 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: James Choice novel, And yeah, we've already hinted their relationship 157 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: does take a bit of a turn toward the kinky, saucy, 158 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 3: very saucy. Indeed, we're gonna get there. The Irish Homestead 159 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: Ben you pointed out in the outline is something of 160 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: a reader's digest type publication, so not something you would 161 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: typically think of containing pornographic material. And he wasn't writing 162 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: this kind of stuff, you know. He saved those types 163 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: of missives for his personal, private secret nighttime he times. Hmm. 164 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to. 165 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: Wonder what he would think about hearing our podcast today. 166 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: I think it would like, you're absolutely on the money there, Nol. 167 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: The stories he's writing at this position in the turn 168 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: of the century, we could think of him like a blogger, 169 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: almost like a paid commentator or reviewer of some sort. 170 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: He's not going to become a millionaire off this, obviously, 171 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: but there is something beautiful to making a living, even 172 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: in part off of one's creative acts, whether that be sculpture, music, literature, dance, 173 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: you name it. This is where he starts writing these stories, 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,119 Speaker 1: these short stories that are going to later be collected 175 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: and published in an anthology she called Doubliners in nineteen fourteen, 176 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: and Dubliners contains one of the most universally warshiped or 177 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: looked up to short stories in the Western canon, which 178 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: is The Dead. If you haven't read it, if you 179 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: find James Joyce to be intimidating because of ulysses or 180 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: because of that other thing he wrote, Finnigan's Wake often 181 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: confused with a book. We can promise you that I 182 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: walked down the street for that way. We can promise 183 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: you that Dubliners is much more accessible, and The Dead 184 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: is just it's a wonderful story. 185 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 186 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: I've read not a word of James Joyce's work, so 187 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 3: this is good advice for me. 188 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 4: You have read, we'll get to it. 189 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: Well. I've read some of his words, yes, but not 190 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: in any of his official output. So you know he 191 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: does progress. I guess you could call it, or perhaps devolved, 192 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: but no, no, no, let's say progress. His work gets 193 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: much more complex and esoteric and experimental. Really, I mean, 194 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: it's my understanding that Ulysses just it kind of messes 195 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 3: with the form of what a book which should be, 196 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 3: and like how you know, perspective and all of the 197 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 3: thing that they aren't. 198 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 4: There aren't characters per se. 199 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 3: I mean there are, but it's like it's all shifting 200 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: perspectives and how would you describe the way Ulysses reads 201 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 3: ben for anyone who maybe hasn't even attempted it. 202 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ulysses, I've got to get to give a shout 203 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: out to the professors who ushered me through several courses 204 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: in James Joyce, I needed a book club basically to 205 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: read Ulysses because it is an epic novel, it expands 206 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: throughout languages. The story it depicts is actually in terms 207 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: of ad is ed plot, it's it's pretty straightforward, but 208 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: it has a ton of illusions, a ton of formats 209 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: that hadn't really happened before, and it has a stream 210 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: of consciousness technique that I think made that that's probably 211 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: one of the biggest speed bumps for people to get over. 212 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 4: Right. 213 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: Oh and there are a ton of puns in there. 214 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: By the way, hashtag no pun left behind. Joyce may 215 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: have started that, and honestly, he could have pumped his 216 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: brakes just a little bit and be honest. 217 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: So he does, you know, try in vain for quite 218 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: some time to get Ulysses published, and he eventually does 219 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty two, when he's forty, before it came 220 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,599 Speaker 3: out as an entire, you know, collected book. He publishes 221 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: it in little installments, which is something we also know 222 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: happened pretty commonly in a publication US literary magazine called 223 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: The Little Review Adorable sounding, and the chapter that became 224 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: known as NAUSICAA features the novel's main character, Leopold Bloom 225 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 3: in a little self care, little self help, little self 226 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 3: on a beach while staring at a seventeen year old 227 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 3: beach dweller, nay a girl named Gertie McDowell. 228 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 4: Nothing, there's wrong at all. 229 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: Slightly Nabokov right, shades of Napakov and Lolita. Yeah, he 230 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: in just this excerpt. This is something a lot of 231 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: people get messed up. Just this excerpt, this Nausica, as 232 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned, that alone, gets an enormous amount of controversy 233 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: because you know, it's super wronged not to not to 234 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: undermine you there, Max, But obviously that was sarcasm. This 235 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: is not cool stuff. It gets published in nineteen twenty again, 236 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: just this excerpt, and this catches the attention of the 237 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: daughter of a lawyer in New York. And this person 238 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: refers the installment nausicaa to something called the New York 239 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: Societ for the suppression of vice. A moral panic occurs, 240 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: prosecution starts rolling. 241 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I believe Nausica is actually a character in 242 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: the Odyssey by Homer. 243 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 4: Yep, you're right. Ulysses is a character in the Iliad, right. 244 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 5: And the Nauso Cans are a species of aliens and 245 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 5: star Trek, the ones who actually impale Card through the 246 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 5: heart when he's a young man. 247 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 3: That seeking in the phones and he's fallen knowledge. 248 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 4: It's just for you right now, the fact. 249 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: And then there's also Miyazaki's Nausica of the. 250 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 3: Valley of the wind the Valley of the Winds, which 251 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: is where I'm most familiar with that name from. But uh, yeah, 252 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: it was so interesting when you start to dig into 253 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: some of the stuff. How often literary references, you know, 254 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 3: are very very important to understand a piece of pop 255 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: culture a little more deeply. I actually watched The Killing 256 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: of the Sacred Deer Yurugus Lanthemo's film with my partner 257 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 3: last night, and that is a reference to some stuff 258 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: that happens battles between gods, like I believe the Killing 259 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: of the Sacred Deer refers to. I think it's Artemis, 260 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 3: who is like the goddess of the hunt and opposing god. 261 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: A sacred deer from her forest is killed, and therefore 262 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: a sacrifice is demanded. And they don't really go over 263 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: the top in the movie to make those references. They 264 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 3: just use the names, and there's a reference to like 265 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: an essay that one of the characters rites about that. 266 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: But when you really dig in deeper, you understand kind 267 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: of where a lot of the symbolism lies. 268 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 4: And I think that's true here as well. 269 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely true of Ulyssi's true of a lot of 270 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: Joyce's work. Stephen Hero becomes a thing. He repurposes it, 271 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: by the way, into a thing called a portrait of 272 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: the artist as a young man, which is ten ten 273 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: no notes the best beginning, the best mention of a 274 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: moo cow in all of literature, probably also the only mention. 275 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: But the editors of this place you mentioned the little review. 276 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: They get taken to court and they get fined, and 277 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 1: they're being prosecuted for publishing a work of obscenity. And 278 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: this meant, this ruling meant that publishers in the United 279 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 1: States were prohibited from publishing Ulysses because the idea was 280 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: something like, well, we cannot define pornographic content, but we 281 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: know it, we know it when we witness it. And 282 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: this irishman is severely off the. 283 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 4: Rails, he is, indeed. 284 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 3: So it's not until nineteen twenty two that an independent 285 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: publisher in Paris decides to go to bat for Joyce 286 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: and his work Ulysses and publishes the complete novel. Sylvia Beach, 287 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 3: believe is the name of the independent publisher there. 288 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: And they had to be independent because look, even now 289 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: when you read this thing, there are some very racy passages. 290 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest misconceptions about Ulysses as 291 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: a work is that it is boring, or it is 292 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: slow or tempered or dry. It is none of those things. 293 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: It is a cavalcade of this on top of this, 294 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: which also references this, which also means this, and watch 295 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: out for this part. And there's a lot of extremely 296 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: sexually explicit content there. Leopold Bloom, the main character, explores 297 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: his sexual boundaries in a brothel. His wife Molly fantasizes 298 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: about just I'll say it, just having really rough sex 299 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: with a paramore. And this is all amid a huge 300 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: collection of literary reference, his obscure religious quotations, trivia that 301 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: just struck Joyce as interesting while he was writing. It 302 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. 303 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 3: Well, and you know, taking into account his Jesuit education 304 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: and upbringing, and knowing, you know how a lot of 305 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: those schools, of course impose religious, you know, components to 306 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: the educational process. It seems like he was bulking against that, 307 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: or at least pushing back against that. And so a 308 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 3: lot of the stuff in these books, or in this 309 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: one in particular, could be considered pretty sacrilegious or even blasphemous. 310 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: You know, there's a character named Buck Mulligan who he 311 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: specifically uses as a way of mocking some of the 312 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 3: rituals of the Catholic Church. And you got to think 313 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 3: that Bloom, the Leopold Bloom character, is kind of Joyce 314 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 3: writing about himself, like to a degree, because I mean, 315 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 3: there's a lot him and his wife Molly are again 316 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 3: talking about all of this you know, kind of rough 317 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: sex type stuff. But he also muses is about being 318 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 3: fisted in a brothel. 319 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, James Joyce was a guy with a 320 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: great personal interest in the human Australia. 321 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 322 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 3: Uh, And so you know it definitely broke ground, like 323 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 3: we said, in terms of like what what does a 324 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 3: novel entail? Like, what is the form of a novel? 325 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 3: So he was doing that likely you know, introducing a 326 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 3: lot of these words too. I mean, like he's dropping 327 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 3: the F bomb repeatedly, you know, as a way of 328 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: referring to to sex. And I can't imagine that, you know, 329 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: with the censorship of the time, that that would have 330 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 3: been something that was out there, you know, in printed form. 331 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 3: But maybe I'm wrong, I mean not to say that 332 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 3: I'm you know, necessarily saying that Joyce is the one 333 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 3: who introduced swearing into the vernacular. But as popular an 334 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: author as he became, and as lauded an author as 335 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 3: he became, he can't deny that he certainly probably helped 336 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 3: spread some of that stuff. 337 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: Absolutely and helped helped break down again the somewhat false 338 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: dichotomy of the literary world and the world of lived experience. 339 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: A lot of people who would drop f bombs left 340 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: and right. They would be scandalized to read that same 341 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: language in a novel, you know. And let's keep in mind, 342 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: this is not too far after the novel finally experienced 343 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: some sort of legitimization. Before then, the novel and Goosh, 344 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: even theater, they were considered low arts. They were considered 345 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: synonymous with grifting, and in the case of theater, they 346 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: were sometimes considered synonymous with sex work. It was a 347 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: very very different environment, and Ulysses is a very very 348 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 1: different book. I love that you pointed out format. You know, 349 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you turn a page and we're 350 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: in a screenplay or a script format. Another time you 351 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: turn a page, it's the front page of a newspaper. 352 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: That didn't really happen in novels before well. 353 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 3: And that could be a scandal of its own, you know, 354 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: because I mean, the key the gatekeepers of literature, you know, 355 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 3: tended to be very staunch in their like, you know, 356 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 3: interpretation of what a novel should be, what a play 357 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: should be, and it would be considered pretty you know, 358 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 3: I guess, blasphemous towards the art of literature, of writing, 359 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 3: to mess with that, to dare to say, who are you, 360 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: James Joyce, to try to you know, upset the apple 361 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 3: cart here and reinvent the wheel. 362 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 4: That is not how we do business. 363 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 3: But you know, these are why, That's why characters like 364 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: him are Figures like him are kind of considered to 365 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 3: be iconoclasts. You know, that word in and of itself, I 366 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: think points to people who break the mold and who 367 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: refuse to be pigeonholed. And I think that's why he's 368 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: very important, because he created a framework for experimentation, you know, 369 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: in form and invoice. 370 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: And in what was considered allowable discourse, right, literary discourse. Yeah, 371 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: and you know, obviously we got to give credit words 372 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: due Lysses was not the first modernist novel, or it 373 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: wasn't at least the only one to combine this experimental 374 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: quality with sexual content. DH Lawrence wrote The Rainbow that 375 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: was also censored, as of seeing a lot of books 376 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: were getting censored, poems and plays as well. 377 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 4: But this. 378 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: Visceral reaction of the reading public in a very real 379 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: way shaped twentieth century literature, and therefore literature in twenty 380 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: twenty three. As we know it today, it wasn't until 381 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: like nineteen thirty four that US courts got a little 382 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: more chill with regards to Lysses. They lifted their ban 383 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: that year, but the debate around what can and cannot 384 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: be said, perhaps more importantly, what should and should not 385 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: be considered literature, that continues today. 386 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: You know, it makes sense that it was the French 387 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 3: that that really we're willing to roll the dice here 388 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 3: because in nineteen twenty eight a novella by George Buttai 389 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: was released in France and it's called The Story of 390 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 3: the Eye, and yeah, involves some very you know, sadistic 391 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 3: and overtly sexual writing. You know, there's a really great 392 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 3: lyric of Montreal song where he's talking about meeting a 393 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: woman at a sweet Swedish festival. He says, standing at 394 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 3: a Swedish festival, just know he's like anit a woman 395 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 3: who could appreciate George Batai standing at a Swedish festival 396 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 3: discussing the Story of the Eye. I remember the guye 397 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 3: is used as a sexual device in that In that book. 398 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: And that that novella, I think the principal characters are 399 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: also teenagers, just to give you a heads up on 400 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: that one, folks. I mean, look, we can say Joyce 401 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: is crucial for his challenging or his expansion of expected 402 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: format accepted topics of conversation. But as anyone who has 403 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: read Ulysses knows, and again it is a really good book. 404 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: The hype is well deserved. It's worth it, as anyone 405 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: who has read it knows. His secure imagination was not 406 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: just a fictional feint. To your point, Leopold Bloom and 407 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: James Joyce have a little more income, And then you 408 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: might think, I keep going back to it, this point 409 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: of dichotomy. I was not aware of this until I 410 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: started studying the guy. But James Joyce apparently eschewed objectionable 411 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: or obscene language in his irl conversations. Like if you 412 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: met him, he would he would get sauced and he 413 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: would he might talk around or about body racy things, 414 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: but he wouldn't. He wasn't the type to use curse words. 415 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: I guess he's said it for the page. 416 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 4: Oh boy, did he ever were? Jeez, Louise, we're going 417 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 4: to get there. 418 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: He does, in fact pass away On January thirteenth of 419 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 3: nineteen forty one, at fifty eight in Zurich, Switzerland. Throughout 420 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 3: his career, he writes a play to your point that 421 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 3: he wasn't like mega prolific, but it's very interesting how like, 422 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 3: you know, several of the pieces of his works are 423 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: just really have stood the test of time in terms 424 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: of like being important pieces of literature. 425 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 4: He was sort of to play as well. 426 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: He did a little bit of journalism, some reviewing kind 427 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: of stuff, three books of poetry. But it wasn't really 428 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: until after he passed away that some. 429 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 4: Of these private. 430 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 3: Musings were unearthed and showed the extent to which he 431 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 3: was willing to go in expressing some of his more 432 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 3: off the menu sexual desires. 433 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, this literary legend, it turns out, was 434 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: a dirty, dirty boy. 435 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:09,239 Speaker 3: You know. 436 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: Maybe the takeaway is be careful with your text messages 437 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: and your correspondencies. Let's go back to Nora Barnacle again, 438 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: real name Weird. He meets her on June sixteenth, nineteen 439 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: oh four. It is the same date that he will 440 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: later set Ulysses. Oh, and all of Ulysses, by the way, 441 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: happens in a very short time period. They elope to 442 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: Zurich in October of that year, but they go on 443 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: to have kind of an unconventional relationship for their time, 444 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: their long term partners, but they don't officially tie the 445 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: knot until nineteen thirty one. And there's this period in 446 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: time where it's around nineteen oh nine. James returns to 447 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: Dublin and he is hoping to get his anthology Dubliners published, 448 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: So what better place to try to get people to 449 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: publish that. His books are, also, by the way, not 450 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: sold at every store in Dublin. 451 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 4: Yet he's just. 452 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: Some guy and during his time in Dublin trying to 453 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: get Dublin Is published, he writes to the love of 454 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: his life, Nora, and he writes a lot, and he 455 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: writes extensively, and we're talking multiple times a day. We're like, 456 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: he is giving her sometimes like hourly updates on I 457 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: kid you not how often he is committing the sin 458 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: of onen They used to call it pleasuring himself masturbating, 459 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: and we are this is why we had such a 460 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: disclaimer at the beginning. Went back, I pulled some excerpts 461 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: of some of his letters, and the baffling thing is 462 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: these are not the dirtiest parts. 463 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 3: I think thus far we've managed to keep it PG. 464 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 4: Thirteen plus. 465 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: But this is the moment, fair listeners, where go down 466 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: the X rated rabbit. I don't even think I can 467 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: read some of this, man, I don't know this is 468 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: this is hard stuff. 469 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 4: I guess let's just give it a go. Max. You're 470 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 4: gonna have your hands full. I think I gotta at 471 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 4: least do some creative bleeps here. I'm just I'm just 472 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 4: glad I'm not having to read it. 473 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, again, sorry Alex, but thanks for coming on 474 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: the show. 475 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 5: We're gonna do an interesting one to come on. 476 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 4: Jeez. 477 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: No, all right, so let's do it this way. Uh, 478 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: We've got one main excerpt here. Again, this is not 479 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: the dirtiest one. But no, why don't you do the 480 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: otters for that first paragraph. I'll come in on the second. 481 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: Okay, Ben, I guess I'll I'll do. I'll play your games, 482 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 3: Wicked games Wicked. It's good, that's good, all right. I'm like, god, jeez, 483 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: I don't think I even do a voice on this. 484 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do a voice. No, I'm not. 485 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 4: I'm not. 486 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 3: I did as you told me, you dirty little girl, 487 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: and pulled myself off twice when I read your letter. 488 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 4: I am delighted to see that you do like being 489 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 4: fucked our sways. 490 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 3: Yes, now, I can't remember that night when I fucked 491 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 3: you for so long backwards. It was the dirtiest fucking 492 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 3: I ever gave you, Darling. My pre was stuck up 493 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: in you for hours, fucking in and out under your 494 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 3: upturned rump. I felt your fat, sweaty buttocks under my belly. 495 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: I don't even understand that logistically. Uh, and saw your 496 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 3: flushed face and mad eyes. I'm flushed a little bit 497 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 3: right now. 498 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I know he I need this, Yeah, charming guy. 499 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 6: Charming guy wrote, it goes it goes on, It goes on, 500 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 6: It goes on, and we'll count the beef slater. Thank 501 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 6: you again, Marky Princess, He says, Uh, this is again 502 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 6: just one excerpt, he says, continuing at every I gave 503 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 6: you your shameless tongue come bursting out through your lips, 504 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 6: and if I gave you a bigger, stronger fuck than usual, 505 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 6: fat dirty farks came spluttering out. 506 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: Of your backside. You had a nurse full of farts 507 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: that night, darling, and I've hit them out of you, 508 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: big fat fellows, long windy ones, quick little merry cracks, 509 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of tiny, little naughty fartings ending in 510 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: a long gush from your hole. It is wonderful to 511 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: a farting woman when every drives one out of her. 512 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: I think I would know Nora's fart anywhere December eighth, 513 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine. 514 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 3: Oh, you know it anywhere, You'll love to see it. 515 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 3: And then a very charming sign off, Yes, same, good night, 516 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: my little farting Nora, my dirty little bird. There is 517 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: one lovely word, darling, you have underlines to make me 518 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 3: pull myself off. Better write me more about that, and 519 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 3: yourself sweetly dirtier, dirtier. 520 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: And we don't have a lot of uh, what's the 521 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: words underlies. Yeah, we don't have a lot of correspondence 522 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: in return, so we're reading the absence of it. But 523 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: it seems like she was ten ten on board. No notes, 524 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of notes, but they were all 525 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: like yes and notes. 526 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 3: Yeah and yes, and we did not do this topic 527 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 3: or pull these these excerpts, to Ben's point, these are 528 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 3: some of the if you can say tam or passor 529 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 3: just for farts and giggles, which there's probably a lot 530 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 3: of that going on in their bedroom, because farts to 531 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 3: make you giggles. 532 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm just I'm my imagination running while. But 533 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 4: this is history. 534 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 3: This is like stuff to be you know, dissected and 535 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 3: and kind of like this really does point to a 536 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 3: secret life of this very important, you know, literary figure. 537 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 3: The Paris Review, which is a fabulous publication. They wrote 538 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 3: a really great article really doing what I just said 539 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 3: much better than we ever could hear on the podcast. Uh, 540 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 3: and it shows the depths of his the depravity, the 541 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 3: levels of just you know this stuff. 542 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 4: I mean, this is modern sounding. 543 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 3: It is really also yeah, yeah, exactly, this is like 544 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 3: fan fiction, you know, and this is wild. 545 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: Also, I gotta say objectively, you can tell he loves language. 546 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: The description of farts, you know, come on, there's a 547 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: little Susian in there. 548 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: And then if we talked about like you can, if 549 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 3: you have Alexa, you can ask Alexa to fart and 550 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 3: she'll say all She'll say, you want a little squeaky one, 551 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: a big fat fellow, long windy one. 552 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 4: I swear to god, it's like out of this letter. 553 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 4: It has to be. It really has to be a reference. 554 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not joking. 555 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: And James the Man was far more base, it would 556 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: seem than Joyce the author. This is this is true? 557 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: Why we telling you this? First farts are hilarious. Secondly, 558 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: we always say it's very important for this show. We 559 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: always say we must humanize these figures who loom large 560 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: and canon in history. There are people just like you. 561 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: We've humanized this guy. Well, let's humanize him just a 562 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: little bit more. Again, we're loose at the end of 563 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: the year. You might not know this, folks, because Street 564 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: kind of teaches us that people exist in isolation. That 565 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: is not true. A lot of the great writers of 566 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: this time they hung out with each other. They kicked 567 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: it the way that me and Nol and Max and 568 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: Alex you're invited to might kick it after work. Joyce 569 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: was a huge fan of the American writer Ernest Hemingway. 570 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: Ernest Hemingway had some I think because I think, especially 571 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: when you read his stance on bullfighting, I think he 572 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: had some sexual issues he was grappling with. But he 573 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: was a big bruiser. He was he was physically the 574 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: opposite of Joyce, and they both loved drinkings. They would 575 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: hang out in Paris. They would get sauced, and apparently 576 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: Joyce was the kind of guy who could be a 577 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: little annoying at parties. He would start bar fights when 578 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: he was drunk, pick fights with like random people, or 579 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: just annoy them to the point where they said, hey, buddy, 580 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: here's your chance. Shut up, and he. 581 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: Would be like, no, furthermore, tiny naughty little forties, and 582 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 2: then they would be about to swing on him, and 583 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 2: he would, literally, this is true, he would run and 584 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 2: hide behind the larger earnest Hemingway, and he would yell, 585 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 2: deal with him, Hemingway, deal with. 586 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 4: Him, Deal with him. He's going to hatch me. Wow, 587 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 4: you have you? 588 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 3: Have you seen what's that Woody Allen movie? Midnight in Paris? 589 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 3: Hemingway is a character in it. I want to say 590 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 3: Joyce is in it too. I can't remember, but it 591 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 3: would certainly be referencing this period that we're talking about 592 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 3: with all these you know, amazing literary figures, because Paris, again, 593 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 3: because they were just a lot more open about this stuff, 594 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 3: so folks could hang and talk about this kind of 595 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 3: stuff without fear of retribution or of societal you know 596 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 3: kind of I guess exile or whatever it might be. 597 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 3: So there was these salons or whatever. Who else was 598 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 3: it there was a woman and Gertrude Stein. You know, 599 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 3: those types of figures were all kind of hanging out. 600 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 3: I don't quite remember if if Joyce is featured in 601 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 3: the film, but Hemingway definitely is, and so it might 602 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 3: not align exactly, but Paris definitely seemed like a hotbed 603 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 3: of this kind of. 604 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 5: A quick Google search. Yes that according to Google, Yes, 605 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 5: Joyce is in the film. 606 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 4: Okay, great. 607 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 3: I haven't seen it since it came out, but I 608 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 3: do remember it being quite fun. And we've got Owen 609 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 3: Wilson being the sort of Connecticut Yankee type figure, saying 610 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 3: a lot of wows, you know, and having an interesting time. 611 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: And so with this, before we get into my perhaps 612 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: polemical but entirely correct opinions about Finnegan's Wake, we're going 613 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: to call it a day. We wanted to humanize stuff, 614 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, folks. Again, it's the end of the year. 615 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: We're all getting we're all getting a little more relaxed 616 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: and loose, and we just thought farts are so funny. 617 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: This guy wrote so amazingly well about farts. And also 618 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: I don't think he would object to us humanizing him 619 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: a little. 620 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 3: You know, this makes me think of too, since we're 621 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 3: talking about Paris, isn't that where like the whole entertainment 622 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: discipline of fartistry was kind of a thing. 623 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 4: Flatulus, Yeah, there was. I think it did an episode 624 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 4: about it. 625 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: But today it was this guy who could like whistle 626 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 3: like tunes with his farts and do all kinds of 627 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 3: tricks fart fart tricks whatever, I don't know, and crowds. 628 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 4: Everybody was hugely, hugely popular. 629 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 3: So I guess Paris was the place man, and I've 630 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 3: only had the had the pleasure of visiting Paris as 631 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,439 Speaker 3: an adult once. It's another thing too, where like that's 632 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 3: where the director Roman Polanski was able to kind of 633 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 3: live when he was an under fire in the United 634 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 3: States for let's just be real, sexually assaulting a minor. 635 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 3: I'm not saying that the Parisian people are inherently debauched 636 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 3: and and but but there is a certain lase fair 637 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 3: attitude towards what other parts of the world might consider perversion. 638 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: Roman Planski is a criminal and should answer for his 639 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: crimes fair. I know we're a fun show, but I 640 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: I can't leave that unsaid. Like and to the point 641 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: about to the point about Paris and Parisians. 642 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 4: Yes, this is. 643 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: Typically, especially in this time period. This is a font 644 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: of cultural interaction. This is the world of the salon 645 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: of the great thoughts, the great movements, be they Bowel 646 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: movements or you know, literary movement. 647 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 4: We had to go there. 648 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 2: I had to. 649 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: We had to. We're almost at the end, my friend, 650 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: we have to wonder how Thank you, Max, I'm flipping. 651 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 3: Also where Jim Morrison died in Paris. He was a 652 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 3: he loved Paris. I'm sorry you said, this is the end, 653 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 3: my only. 654 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: Friends, and this is where also historically a lot of 655 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: a lot of very prominent, very talented African American people 656 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: traveled to get away from the systemic racism of the 657 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: United States. So we owe Paris. Thank you, Melsuku. We 658 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: also we also got to tell you Finnegan's Wake is 659 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: over rated. Thanks as always to ours. 660 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 4: Do you really feel though about Finnegan's Wake? Ben, Finnigan's Wake. 661 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought that up. Though. There is 662 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: a book club that has been studying Finnegan's Wake, I 663 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: kid you not for well over two decades, and when 664 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: they were asked when they would be done, they said, well, 665 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh, it just goes in a cycle because spoiler, 666 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: it's impossible to spoil that book, but spoiler, the last 667 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: sentence is the first part of the uh sentence. 668 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 4: That's it's like a loop. 669 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 3: The book, Yeah, God Against The opening is sort of 670 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 3: like that King Gizzard in the Lizard Wizard record non 671 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 3: Agon Infinity. 672 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 1: Similar and I like that inspired by Yeah, James Choyce. 673 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 3: Now you can play that record on a loop and 674 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 3: it loops back around on itself. 675 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 4: It's pretty neat. 676 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: Those guys are great. 677 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, look let's just give credit where credit 678 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 3: is due once again, the idea of messing with a 679 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 3: pre existing form, you know, whether it be the album, 680 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 3: whether it be the book. 681 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 4: You know, you have things like what is a house 682 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 4: of leaves that. 683 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 3: Really experiments with like type set sure, and and you 684 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 3: know cyclical like writing that goes in spirals and all 685 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 3: of these kinds of things you can really think, I 686 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 3: think you know, correct me if I'm wrong, James Joyce 687 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 3: for pioneering that and for really kind of you know, 688 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 3: going on on a limb to allow others down the 689 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 3: line to be able to successfully experiment with forms, whether 690 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 3: it be literary, musical, cinematic, whatever. I think that's really important. 691 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 3: The first person that gets known for being a you know, 692 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 3: a an experimenter like that and gets some success that 693 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 3: allows future generations to do that kind of stuff too. 694 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so shout out to the lost generation of the 695 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. That's not just Joyce and Pound and Stein 696 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: in anyway, that's also folks like Ts Elliott, who, by 697 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: the way, is American. Sorry, Ts, everybody knows, stop pretending 698 00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: to be British. Wow, jelical cats, they're delical people to day. 699 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 4: Okay, so we're gonna pause. Big big thanks of course 700 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 4: to our jelical cat, our super. 701 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: Producer, mister Max Williams. Big big thanks to our returning 702 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: guest Alex circa Alex. 703 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 4: How do we do? 704 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 2: I mean that was exciting. 705 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 4: I'm on the edge of my seat over here, all right, No, 706 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 4: this is this is good stuff. 707 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 3: Ben, you know, really thanks to Ben of course as 708 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 3: always for you know, being here and doing the show, 709 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 3: but also for being the research associate on this particularly 710 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 3: naughty body and haughty piece of piece of research. 711 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 1: And thanks to you as well, mister Brown. Well come back, folks, 712 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,760 Speaker 1: We're gonna have some more episodes as we get closer 713 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: toward the end of the year. Spoiler alert, you might 714 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: learn some metamology about some very strange diseases, but there 715 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: will be other stuff too. We can't wait for you 716 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: to hear it, so join up with us, very very. 717 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 4: Super We'll see you next time, folks. 718 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 719 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.