1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight we go straight into the Charlie Kirk shooting. 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: Hearing good evening. I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 2: My name is Lance Twigs. And do you know Tyler Robinson? Yes? 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: I do, well, yeah, I do. And this is the 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 3: Yes, all right, So you said when you first met 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: you were roommates. Uh, yeah, okay, and then at some 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 3: point your relationship progressed? Is something more than a roommates 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 3: that right? 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 2: When was that? 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 4: I think we started dating two or three months after 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 4: he moved in Okay? And where did you live at 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 4: that time, Saint George? In an apartment complex? 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 3: And is that apartment in the same place you lived 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: when on September tenth? 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 5: Yes to Dave Matt what's the latest, Nancy. It was 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 5: a shocking day in court. Two big things happened. One, 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 5: Lance Twigg said he's the roommate of Tyler Robinson, roommate 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 5: and lover. He sat down with police in April and 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 5: gave a very involved interview with them, and part of 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 5: that was shown in court during the preliminary hearing heavily redacted, 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 5: though it might have been there was a lot of 25 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 5: very specific information about how they met and became roommates. 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: Let's go straight back into the courtroom. 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: Do you recognize that on the screen there? 28 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 6: Yeah? 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? What do you recognize it as? 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 4: That was the note under his keyboard that he was 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 4: referring to in the first text of that chain. So 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 4: where did you find this on his desk underneath his 33 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 4: computer keyboard? 34 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: And I assume you read it? Yeah? And then what 35 00:01:58,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: did you do with it after you read it? 36 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 4: I believe I just put it back down on the 37 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 4: desk after I took a picture of it, Okay. 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: And again, the time you read it was probably around 39 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 3: eleven o'clock or so on the temp Yes, the night 40 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: of September tenth. And did you ever see that again 41 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: after you placed it back on his desk? 42 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: No, I don't think I did. 43 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: Day Matt, what about it, Nancy? 44 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 5: In the video with Lance Twiggs and police, a question 45 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 5: answer was going back and forth about a note that 46 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 5: was found by Lance Twigs. All right, we found out 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 5: later during text message examination by Utah Bureau of Investigation 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 5: Agent Brian Davis on the stand we found out what 49 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 5: that handwritten message was. Tyler Robinson told Lance Twig by 50 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 5: text on the night of September tenth to go and 51 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 5: look for a note under his keyboard for his computer. 52 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 5: And that's what the picture is that they're talking about 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 5: between Lance Twigs and police during his interview. 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: Let's go straight back to the courtroom, so. 55 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 7: This would have been from Tyler says, drop what you're 56 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 7: doing look under your keyboard. Then Lance responds, he says what, 57 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,239 Speaker 7: and then he says, you're joking, right, and then Tyler says, 58 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 7: I tried to delete that. Then Tyler says, I'm still okame. 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 7: I love, but I'm stuck an arm for it a 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 7: little while longer yet shouldn't be long until I can 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 7: come home, but got to grab my rifle still. To 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 7: be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 7: I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you, 64 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 7: and then Lance replies you weren't the one who did it, right, 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 7: and Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry. Lance says I 66 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 7: thought they caught the person, and then Tyler says, no, 67 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 7: they grabbed some crazy old dude then interrogated someone in 68 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 7: similar clothing I had planned to grab my rifle from 69 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 7: the drop point shortly after, but most of that got 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 7: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough 71 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 7: to get out. There's one vehicle. 72 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 8: Lingering, Dave Matt What more can you tell us that 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 8: note handwritten by Tyler Robinson and found by Lance Twigs. 74 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 5: A couple of things are important there one the no 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 5: said I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, 76 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 5: handwritten by Tyler Robinson and found by Lance Twiggs on 77 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 5: the direction of Tyler Robinson. There was more testimony than 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 5: we never saw. A lot of it was redacted. There 79 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 5: was a lot of blank space on this interview with police. 80 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 5: But I do in our mind to Nancy Lance Twiggs, 81 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 5: he's been given immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony. 82 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: What else does he know? A lot back to the courtroom. 83 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: Do you recognize the person in these images? 84 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 4: I wouldn't say with one hundred percent certainty just because 85 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 4: of camera quality, but that looks like him in terms 86 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 4: of the shoes, he's wearing, the sunglasses. I don't think 87 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 4: i'd specifically seen him more wearing that hat, but he 88 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: was usually wearing a hat. And then shean's so it definitely, 89 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 4: especially the bottom. The last two definitely do look like him. Oh, 90 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 4: they do look like Tyler. 91 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: Robinson to date, Matt, What about it, Nancy. 92 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 5: One of the things that happened in court was the 93 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 5: direct identification of Tyler Robinson by Lance Twigs. Now, Lance 94 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 5: Twigs identifies him, not one hundred percent, but he's saying 95 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 5: that looks like him. Looks like the clothes he wears. 96 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 5: You know, but camera angles not great, camera's not great. 97 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 5: But yeah, looks like him. Can't be one hundred percent, 98 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 5: but looks like him. 99 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: Let's go straight back into the courtroom. 100 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 7: Then Tyler says, I'm still came. I love, but I'm 101 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 7: stuck an orm for it a little while longer yet 102 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 7: shouldn't be long until I can come home, But got 103 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 7: to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had 104 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 7: hoped to keep this secret until I died of old age. 105 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 7: I am sorry to involve you, And then Lance replies, 106 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 7: you weren't the one who did it, right, and Tyler says, 107 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 7: I am, I'm sorry. Lance says I thought they caught 108 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 7: the person, and then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some 109 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 7: crazy old dude. Then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I 110 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 7: had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point 111 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 7: shortly after, but most of that side of town got 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 7: locked down. It's quiet, almost enough to get out, but 113 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:33,119 Speaker 7: there's one vehicle lingering. Lance says why and Tyler says 114 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 7: why did I do it? And Lance says yeah. Tyler 115 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 7: says I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't 116 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 7: be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, 117 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 7: I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to 118 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 7: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't 119 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 7: seen anything in the news about them finding it. We'll 120 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 7: update you shortly, or Charlie will update you by midnight. 121 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 7: And then Lance says, all right, stay safe. How long 122 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 7: have you been planning this and Tyler replies a bit 123 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 7: over a week? I believe, So, lanceys, do you need 124 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 7: it for hunting? And Tyler says no, My dad wanted 125 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 7: to use it to use a high caliber for the 126 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 7: rifle hunt. Judging from today, I say grabs gun does 127 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 7: just find IDK? I think that was a two KSE scope. 128 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 7: Lance says, geez, and then Tyler says, wemw home three 129 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 7: point five hours Lance's drive safe and then Tyler says, delete. 130 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 8: This exchange, Dave, Matt what more can you tell us. 131 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy. 132 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 5: During the course of the testimony today at the preliminary hearing, 133 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 5: we got a sense of what was taking place on 134 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 5: the campus after the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the 135 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 5: surrounding area by the text messages being sent from Tyler 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 5: Robinson to his lover's Lash roommate, Lance Twiggs. Lance Twigs 137 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 5: has been given immunity from prosecution, and we'll find out 138 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 5: why later, I guess. But the one thing that you 139 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 5: can take away from all of this is exactly what 140 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 5: was happening in the search area as law enforcement was 141 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 5: looking for the gun, and what Tyler Robinson was doing 142 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 5: as he. 143 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: Watched it happen. 144 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 5: The fact that Tyler Robinson told Lance Twigs by text 145 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 5: that he had been planning it for over a week. 146 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 5: A couple of things come out of that. One. 147 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: It appears that Lance. 148 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 5: Twigs had no clue about what Robinson was planning to 149 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 5: do and he was shocked by it. But part two 150 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 5: is that when Lance Twiggs hears from Tyler Robinson the 151 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 5: night of this assassination, he's admitting to doing it, admitting 152 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 5: to etching into the bullets. Okay, memes, what responsibility do 153 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 5: we have to turn somebody in? I mean that your 154 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 5: first phone call nine to one one. Hey, I think 155 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,479 Speaker 5: my boyfriend slash roommate might have been the killer. I meant, 156 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 5: wouldn't that be the first call you'd make? A quick word, Nancy, 157 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 5: you have pointed this out many many times on this 158 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 5: show and others. Friends, whatever you put on the internet, 159 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 5: whatever you text, you can delete it all you want. 160 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: It's not gone. 161 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 5: That's why it's kind of amusing to me that Tyler 162 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 5: Robinson would give a direction to Lance Twiggs, you know, 163 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 5: to delete these messages like you, because he's bragging all 164 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 5: along and how you committed the perfect crime. 165 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: He can't be caught. 166 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 5: The only thing is maybe he's got fingerprints left on 167 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 5: the gun, right, But delete the messages and that'll clear everything. 168 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, doesn't work like that, Nate, eaton joining us. Some 169 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: East Idaho news has gone to the crime scene and 170 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: on quite a bit of investigative work. Nate, what did 171 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: you see? 172 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 9: Well, the first place I went was to the place 173 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 9: where Charlie Kirk was actually shot. There in the Amphitheater 174 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 9: outdoor area on the campus. It's a grassy area with 175 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 9: different layers. People were sitting and standing in that location. 176 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 9: There's also buildings surrounding it, so people were standing watching 177 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 9: Charlie speak when that gunshot rang out, and you can 178 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 9: see it's at the bottom of a tiered layer and 179 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 9: directly in the line of sight of that Amphitheater is 180 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 9: the low Sea building where investigators say Tyler Robinson made 181 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 9: his way onto the roof and took one shot directly 182 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 9: at Charlie Kirk. And there is no obstruction there, Nancy, 183 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 9: nothing at all. It is a direct site, nothing in 184 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,599 Speaker 9: the way, and clearly was disturbing for so many and 185 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 9: a life changing day for so many there on the 186 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 9: spot on the Amphitheater where this horrible event happened. Now, 187 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 9: this is a campus that was built on a hill, 188 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 9: so it's layered. Not only is the Amphitheater layered, but 189 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 9: the buildings around the Amphitheater are layered. So it's very 190 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 9: easy to get onto the roof of these buildings. In fact, 191 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 9: many of the buildings the roofs are sidewalks. You're walking 192 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 9: on the sidewalk, you go down some stairs and then 193 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 9: you enter the building, and that's just how the campus 194 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 9: is structured. So it's not like there's all these tall 195 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 9: buildings that you're having to climb up or work your 196 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 9: way around to get on top. That's not what you're 197 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 9: looking at here. Second place I went, so I was 198 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 9: there in the Amphitheater, and then I went upstairs to 199 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 9: the Hall of Flags, which the officer testified the other 200 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 9: day in court. That's where he was stationed when the 201 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 9: gun shot happened, and he running down the stairs. That's 202 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 9: where he found the first gun holster, which apparently had 203 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 9: nothing to do with this case, but he found it. 204 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 9: And then he looked up he saw the low C building, 205 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 9: and then he worked his way up there and noticed 206 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 9: what he called the sniper's den, where there was a 207 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 9: disturbance in the gravel on the roof of that building, 208 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 9: and he was able to see see how someone from 209 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 9: that position could shoot a gun and directly hit Charlie Kirk, 210 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 9: who was in the Amphitheater area. 211 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: Nate, you state that you went to a wooded area 212 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: where you believe the gun and the gun towel was recovered. 213 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 9: What did you learn, well, Nancy, I then worked my 214 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 9: way over to the actual low Seed building. Now, I 215 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 9: didn't think i'd be able to get anywhere near the roof. 216 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 9: But what startled me most is that, as I mentioned, 217 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 9: these buildings are in tiers, so at some portions you're 218 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 9: looking up maybe about twelve fifteen feet. But as you 219 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 9: walk around the building, there's a stairwell you can take up, 220 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 9: which is presumably the same stairwell that Tyler Robinson took. 221 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 9: You take it up and you're right there at the 222 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 9: roof level. You don't have to really jump over anything 223 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 9: other than a railing, which and now they have put 224 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 9: up a fence. They've put up a chain link fence, 225 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 9: so it would be more challenging to get on that roof. 226 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 9: But at the time you could simply jump over a railing. 227 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 9: You're on the roof, You do a few jumps from 228 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 9: level to level, and you're there on the edge of 229 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 9: the building. And then from there we've seen the surveillance 230 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 9: footage where after the shot was fired, apparently Robinson took 231 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 9: off across the building and then he jumped off about 232 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 9: a twelve to fifteen foot drops, still not very far, 233 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 9: and that's when he worked his way into the wooded area. 234 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 9: We have heard about the wooded area. I was picturing 235 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 9: kind of a lush forest. That's how a lot of 236 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 9: people have described it. That's not what it is. There's 237 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 9: a lot of trees, and it's a grated area. It 238 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 9: kind of goes up, so you could walk up a hill. 239 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 9: You wouldn't need hiking shoes for this, though. I mean, 240 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 9: it's dirt, it's grass, it's pine trees, it's other trees, 241 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 9: and being that it was September, there likely would have 242 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 9: been foliage on these trees versus the wintertime or spring 243 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 9: where they wouldn't have bloomed. But there's a kind of 244 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 9: a row of trees separating the campus from other buildings 245 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 9: from other homes in the neighborhood that you could easily 246 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 9: hide something or try to hide something, which is apparently 247 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 9: what Robinson did according to the police, And that is 248 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 9: where they ended up finding the towel and then they 249 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 9: found the gun, both of which they said had the 250 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 9: DNA on it. 251 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: Nate, how will what you learned be probative at trial? 252 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean, how can it be used by either the 253 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: state or the defense. 254 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 9: Well, we can already see that the state has used 255 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 9: the surveillance footage showing him on the buildings, going building 256 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 9: to building, and the fact that they said they found 257 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 9: those items in the woods. I think had his DNA 258 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 9: not been on those items would be much harder and 259 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 9: the defense would would maybe try to poke holes in that. 260 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 9: But the fact that his DNA was on it, and 261 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 9: that this surveillance video appeared to show him with a 262 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 9: long item down his pants as he was limping to 263 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 9: try to go over to the campus, I think all 264 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 9: of that will line up. The key here, of course, 265 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 9: is all of the footage that they have. The footage 266 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 9: that they have, the fact that it's easy to climb 267 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 9: on top of the building, the fact that the amphitheater 268 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 9: was open, wide open, the fact that there's multiple other 269 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 9: buildings where people could easily get on top of. I 270 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 9: think all of that will come into play to show 271 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 9: that this was an area that was not super hard 272 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 9: to get to. 273 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Nate eaton east Side Home News, what's the takeaway from 274 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: what you learned at the crime scene. 275 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 9: I think one of my takeaways, Nancy, is just how 276 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 9: well one the area is far more compact than what 277 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 9: I had seen on other videos on news clips. It 278 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 9: seemed very wide and large and huge. This was a 279 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 9: small area. I was able to walk that whole area 280 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 9: in less than five minutes. I mean it, it is there. 281 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 9: There's where Charlie was speaking. There's building building the chick 282 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 9: fil A that they say Tyler Robinson went into after 283 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 9: he visited the campus in the morning is right there, 284 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 9: off to the side. And then there's the low See Building, 285 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 9: which is straight ahead. You could yell from where Charlie 286 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 9: Kirk was standing. You could yell and if someone was 287 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 9: on the roof of the low See Building, if you 288 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 9: yelled really loud, they could probably hear. You mean, is 289 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 9: that close. It's not like we're talking yards and yards 290 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 9: and yards away. It is close. It is within distance 291 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 9: of seeing someone if you're looking, if you're noticing and 292 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 9: definitely possibly hearing someone. I say that there is a 293 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 9: water feature there, so that might muffle the sound, and 294 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 9: if water was running that day, it could have caused 295 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 9: some disturbances. Plus, if you're surrounded by people, you're not 296 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 9: gonna hear it. But ultimately, I think the big takeaway 297 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 9: for me is the area was so compact. One thing 298 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 9: I do want to say about being in the courtroom, Nancy, 299 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 9: is that Erica Kirk and Charlie Kirk's parents seemed to 300 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 9: be consoling each other in a way. I noticed Erica 301 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 9: Kirk putting her head on Charlie's mother's shoulder. It appeared 302 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 9: at times that they were possibly praying, as their eyes 303 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 9: were closed and they were looking down. I noticed during 304 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 9: the break as they left that there was tissue that 305 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 9: they had left on their a package of tissues that 306 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 9: they had left on their bench, water bottles in there to, 307 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 9: you know, in case they get thirsty. And then the 308 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 9: end of the day they stood up and embraced for 309 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 9: some time. I'm not talking five seconds. I'm talking thirty 310 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 9: seconds to a minute. Erica Kirk and Charlie's mother and 311 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 9: Erica's friends who are with her noticeably crying, Erica noticeably upset. 312 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 9: This is when they were talking about the defense was 313 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 9: arguing about certain evidence being admitted and the prosecution saying 314 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 9: we need to admit it, and they clearly are paying 315 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 9: attention to this. Erica seems very invested in this, even 316 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 9: you know, looking directly at the witnesses. It's not like 317 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 9: she's distracted at all. And that has been kind of 318 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 9: the key takeaway for me in the courtroom. As two 319 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 9: rows behind her. We have Tyler Robinson's parents sitting on 320 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 9: the opposite end of the bench, and they obviously are 321 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 9: in a completely different frame of mind because their son 322 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 9: is on trial for this horrible, horrific crime. And he 323 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 9: sits there smiling a little bit. I noticed, you know, 324 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 9: before the proceedings he's talking with the attorneys. During the breaks, 325 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 9: he's talking with the investigator kind of not not really joking, 326 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 9: but smiling, laughing a little bit. At one point he 327 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 9: did look over to me, because I was maybe three 328 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 9: four feet away from him in the media box. We're 329 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 9: right there. He did look over to me and give 330 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 9: me kind of a friendly smile. But he has handcuffs 331 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 9: on that are chained to his waistband, and then he 332 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 9: has shackles on his feet, so he's not getting anywhere. 333 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 9: And he's been dressed up every day in a suit 334 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 9: and a tie and a dress shirt and dress shoes. 335 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 9: And then at the end of the court hearing, they 336 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 9: asked him to stand up and walk out, and at 337 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 9: that moment I did not see if he made any 338 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 9: contact with his family who was on the back row. 339 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 9: But it's it's been interesting to see him there. He 340 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 9: had a notebook in front of him. I didn't see 341 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 9: him take one note. He did have a red pen 342 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 9: that was handy with him. But he also I mentioned 343 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 9: Erica Kirk is paying close attention to the proceedings. Tyler 344 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 9: Robinson is paying close attention to the proceedings. 345 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: To Dave Matt, what's the latest, Nancy? 346 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 4: You know? 347 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 5: Lance Twigg has been identified by many as Tyler Robinson's 348 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 5: roommate and something more well, we already knew. He was 349 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 5: given immunity from prosecution to provide testimony. Now the judge 350 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 5: allowed in police surveillance video of his interview with cops 351 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 5: when he was shown pictures of the alleged assassin of 352 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 5: Charlie Kirk, and Lance Twigg says, yep looks like Tyler 353 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 5: Robinson to me. Identification in court today that Tyler Robinson 354 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 5: appears to be the alleged assassin of Charlie Kirk. Also Nancy, 355 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 5: Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica, and his parents. They filed court 356 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 5: papers this morning saying that the judge is preventing them 357 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 5: from seeing all the evidence. Utah law provides for family 358 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 5: members to not only be in court during test during 359 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 5: trial testimony, a court hearing like this but it also 360 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 5: allows for them to witness evidence in a meaningful way. 361 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 5: And Erica Kirk and Charlie's parents say they're being prevented 362 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 5: from that, saying there's hidden evidence and they want to 363 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 5: see it. So that paperwork has been filed. We'll find 364 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 5: out what happens in the coming days tonight. 365 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: Wild conspiracy theories are abounding. What do we know? Well, 366 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. 367 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 10: The theory that Charlie Kirk was killed by an explosive 368 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 10: placed in his wireless mic is growing in popularity. And 369 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 10: when you look at the re enactments done online side 370 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 10: by side, you can't help but notice the way that 371 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 10: the shirt moves, the way that the necklace moves, and 372 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 10: the way that the body moves are so similar. 373 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: What is she saying? That's from WFF news at TikTok White. 374 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: I need to hear that again. 375 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 10: The theory that Charlie Kirk was killed by an explosive 376 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 10: place east in his wireless mic is growing in popularity, 377 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 10: and when you look at the reenactments done online side 378 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 10: by side, you can't help but notice the way that 379 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 10: the shirt moves, the way that the necklace moves, and 380 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 10: the way that the body moves are so similar. 381 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: Joe Scott an online reenactment, is that real? 382 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, you know this is the thing about it. 383 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 6: I think a lot of people are getting this from 384 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 6: If you remember a couple of years ago from the 385 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 6: Israelis using explosive inside of pagers and they went after individuals, 386 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 6: and they're extrapolating from that trying to make this like that. 387 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 6: If you watch any of those videos with exploding pagers, 388 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 6: there's a tremendous amount of damage that is done where 389 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 6: you actually have kind of a blast radius and you 390 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 6: see things that are like I remember one where the 391 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 6: guys like in the vegetable aisle at the store and 392 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 6: there are vegetables that are destroyed. That's sort of thing. 393 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 6: These these pages blow apart. That's not what we're seeing 394 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 6: in this clip with Charlie. And just let me explain 395 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 6: something very very quickly. When his shirt balloons out, that's 396 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 6: what's referred to as a transfer of kinetic energy. It's 397 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 6: almost akin to taking a rock and imagine the most 398 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 6: beautiful placid pool you've ever seen in your life and 399 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 6: just chunking the rock right in the middle of it. 400 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 6: What happens, Well, that energy from that rock striking that 401 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 6: placid surface sends out waves. It's the same thing. That's 402 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 6: why the shirt balloons out. That's why you might see 403 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 6: a necklace move. You're talking about a high velocity rifle round, which, 404 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 6: by the way, strikes him in the neck to the 405 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 6: left of the mid line, creates a tiny defect. You 406 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 6: can see blood at one point in time begin to 407 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 6: pour out. This is not an explosive event. Explosions have 408 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 6: a very distinctive nature to them. We're talking about where 409 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 6: things are actually blown apart. You're gonna have shrapnel, You're 410 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 6: gonna have secondary, second, secondary damage relative to other items 411 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 6: that are surrounding that area. That dog don't hunt. 412 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to doctor Sherry Schwartz. Why are people obsessed 413 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: with these conspiracy theories? 414 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 11: So people become obsessed with conspiracy theories for a number 415 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 11: of reasons. One of the in this situation, because it's 416 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 11: Charlie Kirk and he was such a polarizing figure. People 417 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 11: who feel socially or politically disempowered tend to latch onto 418 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 11: conspiracy theories because they distrust institutions and experts. So that's 419 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 11: kind of one of the most direct in this case 420 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 11: that I believe makes people so obsessed with conspiracy theories, 421 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 11: But generally speaking, we become obsessed with them because when 422 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 11: something happens that's so horrifying. And this is horrifying no 423 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 11: matter how you feel about somebody like Charlie k a 424 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 11: young man, a father, a husband, was killed in broad daylight, 425 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 11: out in the open where there were thousands of people 426 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 11: there watching, And this makes us have a sense of terror, 427 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 11: a sense of fear, because if it can happen to 428 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 11: Charlie Kirk, it can happen to anyone. So believing the 429 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 11: conspiracy theories that there was some special conspiracy against Charlie Kirk, 430 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 11: it gives us the security to know that we wouldn't 431 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 11: be targets. In the same way, we feel a little 432 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 11: bit safer. It gives us some control and a little 433 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 11: bit of control over the narrative as well. 434 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: To Philip Debay, dare I ask it way in, I. 435 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 12: Would love this TikToker on my jury, frankly, because in 436 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 12: a case like this, where the evidence is seemingly rock solid, 437 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 12: you need to fracture that jury with such great differences 438 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 12: of opinion that they'll never garner unanimity. Now, as a 439 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 12: practical matter, the prosecution is going to hammer this idea 440 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 12: that the medical examiner recovered a bullet fragment from Charlie 441 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 12: Kirk's body. So unless you have evidence that that bullet 442 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 12: fragment was in fact a microphone fragment, I think she 443 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 12: needs to shut the hell up. 444 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: One conspiracy beyond the pale claiming that Charlie Kirk is 445 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: actually alive. 446 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 13: What if Charlie Kirk is still alive, if he was 447 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 13: in grave danger and someone was threatening his life and 448 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 13: it was it was bad, and the idea came up 449 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 13: to fake the assassination and put him in witness protection, 450 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 13: you really wouldn't have to convince his friends and family. 451 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 13: Most of them would say, absolutely, let's do this to 452 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 13: protect him. Now, nobody's crying. Erica throws a few tears 453 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 13: here and there, but it would make sense with how 454 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 13: they're acting. 455 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: That from Safe Haye Baby Boxes on TikTok Okay Joe 456 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. To further that conspiracy, you would have to 457 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: have the entire medical Examiner's office in on it. You 458 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: would have to have the funeral home. Let's see the 459 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: footage of Erica Kirk kissing her dead husband's hand you'd 460 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: have to have the funeral home in on it, everybody 461 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: that works at the funeral home. Is that even feasible? 462 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan that the medical examiner would take part 463 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: in a wild conspiracy, faking his autopsy, submitting official autopsy reports, 464 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: even taking the thing to a hearing. What about it, 465 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, give me a. 466 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 6: Break, Nancy, what are you talking about. You're talking about 467 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 6: the faking of his death. This is so incredibly absurd 468 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 6: because you mentioned the medical examiner staff, Yet they would 469 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 6: have to be on board. And it's not just the 470 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 6: medical examiner's staff. Utah has a state medical examiner. So 471 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 6: you're telling me these people are saying, Okay, the chief 472 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 6: medical Examiner for the state of Utah, who is, by 473 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 6: the way, a board certified forensic pathologist, and all of 474 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 6: his staff are going to be coming in and involving 475 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 6: themselves in a conspiracy at the risk of their careers 476 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 6: and their good name. Oh, by the way, I forgot 477 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 6: to mention the ambulance crew, all of the police officers 478 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 6: that were involved in this. Oh what else happened? Charlie 479 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 6: went to the hospital, didn't he? So you're going to 480 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 6: have a board certified surgeon that's gonna stick his neck out. 481 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 6: How much money are they paying him in order to 482 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 6: do this? Are what you're saying is are they threatening 483 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 6: his life? If you don't do this, we're going to 484 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 6: take you out. You have to sign on the dotted 485 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 6: line that you treated this man. It just does not 486 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 6: make sense whatsoever not to mention emergency room texts. We've 487 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 6: got emergency room nurses, We've got surgical texts, surgical nurses, 488 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 6: all of these people are in on this. This is 489 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 6: just the height of lunacy. 490 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: A Philip Dubay, The magnitude required of a conspiracy theory 491 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: like that to cover up the fact that Kirk's actually 492 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: alive is insane. But if you put that to a 493 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: jury and you got one wing nut yourr to buy 494 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: into it, what do you think. 495 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 12: Well, remember, I only need one from a defense standpoint 496 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 12: to either hang it or to just cause a retrial 497 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 12: and a mistrial. So if I can get that type 498 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 12: of conspiracy theories nut on the jury, that is a 499 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 12: victory for the client. Now, the practical reality of it 500 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 12: is it's going to be hard to juxtapose that against 501 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 12: the well attended funeral that they had for Charlie Kirk 502 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 12: and how they would explame his corpse in a casket 503 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 12: would defy common sense and defy logic. So I think 504 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 12: that even though it may initially fracture a jury, I 505 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 12: could see the rest of the jury talking her out 506 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 12: of that theory, and in the end it could backfire 507 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 12: on the defense because it would alienate the jury. And 508 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 12: from a defense standpoint, you want to maintain some degree 509 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 12: of integrity and credibility because remember it's a death case. 510 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 12: If you lose in the guilt phase, they can hold 511 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 12: these shenanigans against the defense during the penalty phase and 512 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 12: render a death verdict. So it's dangerous. 513 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining us, a forensic psychologist specializing in 514 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: capital mitigation and author. Doctor Sherry, do these people have 515 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: any idea the suffering they are causing Kirk's family by 516 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: these far fetched theories like he's still alive? 517 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 11: The truth is that when people are engaging in this 518 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 11: type of talk, it's very easy because Charlie Kirk is 519 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 11: and in front of them, Erica Kirk and mister Kirk's 520 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 11: parents not in front of them, and so what happens 521 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 11: is it's easy to dehumanize them and forget that they're 522 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 11: a factor in this. And when we start dehumanizing people, 523 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 11: we don't realize the impact that it has. The fact 524 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 11: of the matter is Erica Kirk is a young widow 525 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 11: whose husband was killed very publicly. Same for his parents. 526 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 11: They are now without their son and they can never 527 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 11: get him back, and he was taken in this brutally 528 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 11: horrible way. And really I wish the TikTokers and everybody 529 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 11: else would stop to think about if they were in 530 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 11: that situation, if it was their family member, how they 531 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 11: might feel about everybody saying, oh, he's alive and well somewhere, 532 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 11: but you all just don't know it. It's really hurtful 533 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 11: and it's very damaging to the victims. 534 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: Another favorite conspiracy theory out there is that the Kirk 535 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: murder was ordered by the US government to distract from 536 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: the Epstein files. 537 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 14: We as American people, deserve to have every EPSTEIN file 538 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 14: released with no redactions whatsoever, period. And so yesterday, I 539 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 14: don't want to comment because a lot of these people 540 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 14: are my friends, but they got to make it right, 541 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 14: and we the American people, ran on transparency. We deserve 542 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 14: to see the entire client list, every document, the government 543 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 14: has regarding the Epstein files, we the American people should 544 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 14: have on an easy to access website immediately, in a 545 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 14: very very quick fashion. I'm pushing for that, both privately 546 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 14: and publicly, just so you know. 547 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,479 Speaker 1: Is it safe to come out, because I've been arguing 548 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: that the Epstein file should be made public, the entire 549 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: files from day one. Insane ridiculous to somehow rope in 550 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: the Epstein files into this brutal murder. Scott Morgan jump in. 551 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 6: How many other people have actually made this statement as well? 552 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 6: Just in my friend group alone, everyone has wanted to 553 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 6: do it. I've commented on the Epstein files, bring them on, 554 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 6: I want them to release the list. Does that mean 555 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 6: that I'm a target? How about everybody else, every other 556 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 6: high profile person. Why is it that they would single 557 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 6: out Charlie Kirk for this and don't come at me 558 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 6: with this nonsense of well you don't understand what an 559 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 6: impact he had. There's a lot of people that have 560 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 6: impact out there that are saying the same thing. So 561 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 6: is this a motivation for him being taken out? No, 562 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 6: I don't think that it is at all. I think 563 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 6: that there are a lot of people clamoring for this information. 564 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 6: There's a lot of information that should be made public. 565 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 6: It doesn't necessarily mean that he's a target of an 566 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 6: assassination simply based upon that. 567 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: What do you make of that one, Doctor Sherry, I. 568 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 11: Think it's so important to consider sources when we are 569 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 11: hearing these things such as the Epstein and files are 570 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 11: part of the reason that Charlie Kirk was brutally murdered 571 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 11: in broad daylight. Demand evidence and think critically. This is 572 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 11: what I tell my college students. There is absolutely no 573 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 11: evidence that I've seen that there's any relation between Charlie 574 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 11: Kirk and the release of the Epstein files. And why 575 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 11: would somebody need to murder Charlie Kirk over these files 576 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 11: that have These two events are completely unrelated. And again 577 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 11: this goes back to how hurtful it is to the family. 578 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 11: They're also victims of this crime. They are co victims, 579 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 11: is what we call them, and they have to listen 580 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 11: to this and manage this every single day. But when 581 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 11: you're engaging in that kind of talk, you're just latching 582 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 11: onto things that make no sense. 583 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: What about it, Philip Dubay that the murder was ordered 584 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: by the US government. Is there a way to actually 585 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: get government conspiracy theorists on your jury. Is that what 586 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: the defense is going to. 587 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 12: Do, of course, And the first thing that I would 588 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 12: do is I would want to know the occupation of 589 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 12: the Veneerman. I would want those DMV workers. I would 590 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 12: want people who work at the counter for Social Security 591 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 12: and Medicare and the Registrar of voters, and maybe even 592 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 12: who handle the administrative claims for the large HMO organizations, 593 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 12: because there's such tremendous distrust in management. They have seen 594 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 12: firsthand how people get railroaded, blamed, and thrown under the bus. 595 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 12: So I could actually envision one or two jurors in 596 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 12: those professional capacities wondering the same thing and perhaps having 597 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 12: reasonable doubt. 598 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 15: I think she works for the present class, and that 599 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 15: she was hired to be Charlie Kirk's handler because Charlie 600 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 15: Kirk was such an influential part of the Christian movement 601 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 15: through Turning Point USA. I think that the oppressors that 602 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 15: Erica was working for really wanted to use Turning Point 603 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 15: USA to try to sway the younger generation and manipulate 604 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 15: them and control a narrative around Christianity, because that's what 605 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 15: they do. 606 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not quite sure what that is. Even claiming 607 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: something about Erica Kirk being an elite fixer, What is 608 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: she saying, Doctor Sherry, What do you make of the 609 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: continued attacks on Erica Kirk. 610 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 11: Yes, I've even heard some of the conspiracy theories about 611 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 11: that maybe she had some role in his death so 612 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 11: that she could take over. What's shocking and really deeply 613 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 11: troubling to me as a psychologist is how much vitriol 614 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 11: this poor woman Erica Kirk has been subject to since 615 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 11: her husband was brutally murdered. She's a young widow, she's 616 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 11: a mom, she is an American who's trying to live 617 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 11: her life every day and manage this horrible tragedy and 618 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 11: having to live it out in the public square. And 619 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 11: the hatred from high level people, from some people that 620 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 11: I would classify as respected podcasters that have some air 621 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 11: of authority about knowledge about things, that really don't have 622 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 11: any kind words for her, And I really don't understand that. 623 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 11: And I think that they especially have a responsibility to 624 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 11: set the tone in the pace and accept that this 625 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 11: is somebody who's grieving and she's entitled to that grief 626 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 11: and you don't have to like her, but you don't 627 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 11: have to attack her. 628 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: The attacks on Erica Kirk keep coming. 629 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 16: Listen, Erica Kirk keeps getting weirder and weirder. That's an 630 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 16: M and a G. That's not her initials, and that's 631 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 16: not Charlie Kirk's initials. Look at how she doesn't have 632 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 16: any smearing of her mass Garrett pressure TOPUSA just got 633 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 16: millions and millions of dollars, but she needed to put 634 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 16: out this fundraiser right after his memorial. Doesn't that seem 635 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 16: a little bit suspicious? I believe they're all just running 636 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 16: cover for what they're doing. Right here, it's very easy 637 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 16: to put on some prost and then right when you're 638 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 16: supposed to queue up, Look there's no blood on the ground. 639 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 16: It would just be spewing everywhere. It seems like a 640 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 16: much simpler explanation that they could have just put a 641 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 16: little patrate here and made it go, which is exactly 642 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 16: what it looked like. 643 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: Okay, that's modern shaman media. It's amazing to me to 644 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan that so many people are focusing on 645 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,919 Speaker 1: attacking Erica Kirk instead of focusing on the fact that 646 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk was gunned down in broad daylight, sitting on 647 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: a stage. It's like everyone's doing backflips to proof somehow 648 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: that Tyler Robinson didn't do it. 649 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 6: I don't. It's hard for me to fathom how anyone 650 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 6: could fake this event. I've heard all kinds of things, 651 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 6: including that this was some kind of digital image that 652 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 6: everybody was subjected to and the whole event was a 653 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 6: complete digital HALLUSA Nation. I guess that we've all bought 654 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 6: into that it didn't actually happen, that there were some 655 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 6: kind of special cameras or mirrors that were around, you know, 656 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 6: almost like it's some kind of sideshow of Las Vegas 657 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 6: magic trick that this did not happen. This is not 658 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 6: David Copperfield making the statue of Liberty disappear. This is 659 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 6: a man that was a victim of a firearms related homicide. 660 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 6: It is that simple. This is a murder investigation and 661 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 6: it has been worked as such, and right now we're 662 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 6: finding out more and more about it that will go 663 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 6: to disprove a lot of this nonsense it's being spewed 664 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 6: out there. 665 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: What about it, Debai? 666 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 12: I think this conspiracy theorist's idea would make perfect sense 667 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 12: if this were a civil, wrongful death trial, because in 668 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 12: that context, it would be based on a theory of 669 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 12: negligence where the venue is on notice that dangerous third 670 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 12: parties could be coming inside the venue and they don't 671 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 12: take enough precautions to prevent this type of foreseeable harm. 672 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 12: But that's not the posture we're in. We're not in 673 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 12: a situation where the university or the venue is getting 674 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 12: sued for not having proper security and therefore they should 675 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 12: be held liable. This is a criminal trial where criminal 676 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 12: liability personally attaches to Tyler Robinson if he was in 677 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 12: fact the gunman. So I think that his point may 678 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 12: be well taken in a civil form, but not in 679 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 12: a criminal one. 680 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz Way. 681 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 11: In, Well, this goes to buying into conspiracy theories because 682 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 11: you feel politically and socially disempowered, disenfranchised, so you don't 683 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 11: trust institutions. These are the people who are going to 684 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 11: latch on to this idea that Tyler Robinson didn't do it. 685 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 11: And I'll tell him myself a little bit, not that 686 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 11: I ever thought he didn't do it, but I didn't 687 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 11: really pay super close attention to this, and I also 688 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 11: just based on headlines. This is why it's so important 689 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 11: to go deeper than that and do your own research. 690 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 11: I actually had a sense that, oh, the prosecutors being 691 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 11: censured for something. I saw some headline about that. Well, 692 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 11: maybe they did get the wrong guy. And then in 693 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 11: preparing for this, I read a little bit deeper. I mean, 694 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 11: his DNA is on a towel, his roommate boyfriends DNA 695 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 11: is on a towel, There's other things. He left a note. 696 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 11: So when you do a little bit deeper level of research, 697 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 11: you recognize that they probably do have the right guy. 698 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 11: His own father turned him in or facilitated him turning 699 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 11: himself in. These are all very big pieces of credible 700 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 11: evidence that they have the right guy. 701 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: Yet another conspiracy theory. 702 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 16: I think it's a sign of just like him getting 703 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 16: shot and Charlie Kirk thing. 704 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 17: I can't even go to a baseball game and bring 705 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 17: in a canadike oak the baseball game or a concert 706 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 17: without a metal detector or them NV in my pockets. 707 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't even apply here. No one was going in 708 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: a stadium. It was an open area venue. There is 709 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: not a metal detector that can be used for a 710 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: giant field of people. I agree or disagree We. 711 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 6: Have a quad at my university. I'm a I'm a 712 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 6: college professor. We have events out on the quad all 713 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 6: the time. It's immediately adjacent my office. As a matter 714 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 6: of fact, I can stand at my office when to 715 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 6: look out over it. I've never seen a metal detector 716 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 6: out there. And you know, the fact is it's a 717 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 6: space for free speech. And Charlie Kirk, you know, God 718 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 6: rest his soul. And I understand that he is high profile. 719 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 6: He ain't the president of the United States. All right, 720 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 6: that's that's not That's not part and parcel of this. Now, 721 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 6: was it was? Was there a lack of attention to security? Yeah? Probably? Uh, 722 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 6: And I'm by no means a security expert. If it 723 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 6: had been me, I probably would have had people watching 724 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 6: the rooftops, particularly if there were any suspected threats against him. 725 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 6: I would have had more people deployed out there just 726 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 6: handling it. The local constabularies, not just the campus police. 727 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 6: You would bring in some of your law enforcement partners. 728 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 6: But yeah, do I think that there was what's the 729 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 6: term they use now, intentionality? Is that that term that 730 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 6: they use? I hate that word, but let's just use 731 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 6: it right now and just say that there was intentionality 732 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 6: on the part of these individuals to deprive Charlie of security. Therefore, 733 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 6: if that's what is being suggested, all of their fingers 734 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 6: are on the proverbial trigger here. They're all part and 735 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,720 Speaker 6: parcel and party to a homicide that has been committed 736 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 6: Ain Biden. 737 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: The testimony in the hearing has opened up a whole 738 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: another her arterial flood of conspiracy theories regarding the bullet. 739 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 6: When when a weapon is cleared, an officer would make 740 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 6: his rifle ready, which would chamber around. 741 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: Oh, I got you. My understanding was that that's how 742 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:16,800 Speaker 1: that was accounted for. 743 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 13: So an officer claimed it that bullet belonged to him 744 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 13: or her. 745 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 16: That's my recollection is that that that was how it 746 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:24,479 Speaker 16: was accounted for. 747 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: And when when was that accounted for? I don't know specifically. 748 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: Do you remember what type of bullet that was? I 749 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: don't Was it a thirty odd six? 750 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember? 751 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 17: I don't. 752 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: Okay. Do you know where that bullet is now? I don't. Okay. 753 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: There you see David Agent David Hall on the stand. 754 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,720 Speaker 1: The defense attorney is leading him down the garden path, 755 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: and she's setting up a claim that the bullet did 756 00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: not come from Tyler Robinson's weapon significance. That opens up 757 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,479 Speaker 1: a line of questioning as to the real killer. Now, 758 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: jo Scott Morgan, we know that the fragment that was 759 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: recovered is how can I say deformed? It is destroyed. 760 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: It's a fragment of a bullet, just enough left to 761 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: see the circumference at the bottom to prove it's from 762 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: a thirty odd to six. But whether it came from 763 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: that gun cannot be proven by the striations the markings 764 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: on the bullet. They're going to have a field day. 765 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 6: Bullets are deformed all of the time. That's the nature 766 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 6: of bullets. They are lead core projectiles that are encased 767 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 6: in a copper jacket. Those are soft metals. Guess what 768 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,879 Speaker 6: happens when they strike a surface. They fragment, They wind 769 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 6: up deformed. They particulate. Okay, that's one of the purposes 770 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 6: for a projectile. Do they do that? Well? They do 771 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 6: it in order to destroy as much tissue as they 772 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 6: possibly can. And guess what with this thirty O six 773 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,839 Speaker 6: round that was fired at Charlie Kirk. It was highly effective. 774 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 6: It did its job. It's a man killer as well. 775 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 6: You can't ask him now but our troops in World 776 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 6: War One killed thousands of people with these rounds. It 777 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 6: was specifically made for that. This is the round that 778 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 6: they carried in the nineteen o three is what it 779 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 6: was referred to, bolt action rifle. That's what our troops carried. 780 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 6: They still used it. Our sniper still used it in 781 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 6: World War II. It's a highly effective round. Grandpa and 782 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 6: great Grandpa used it to hunt deer with. Why do 783 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 6: they use it well? Because it's highly effective, and yes, 784 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 6: rounds do in fact fragment. Now, is it being suggested 785 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 6: that this poor cameraman is out there, what does he have? 786 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,760 Speaker 6: Was he supplied with this by some kind of unknown 787 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 6: foreign agency. He's got a weapon hidden inside of his camera, 788 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 6: and let me guess the buttons on the camera that 789 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,720 Speaker 6: actuates the firing pin in there and around what travels 790 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 6: out of where the lens is supposed to be. And 791 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 6: he was just positioned just right to strike Charlie in 792 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 6: the neck. Let me tell you what's going to happen 793 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 6: that people are not aware of, or maybe they're just 794 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 6: kind of ignoring right now, that view that we have 795 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 6: of Charlie, that static view that we have where he 796 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 6: is seated, that ain't the only view there is, that's 797 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 6: not the only videography that exists. It's from all points 798 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 6: of the compass. What are you going to suggest, then again, 799 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 6: another mass hallucination that everybody's phones were impacted and their 800 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 6: cameras were compromised. Is that the road that we're going 801 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 6: to go now, Well, best of luck with that because 802 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 6: it is just not going to match up with what 803 00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 6: is going to be described in court when this came 804 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 6: does in fact go to trial. 805 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the 806 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: shooting of Charlie Kirk dial toll free eight hundred two 807 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: two five five three twenty four, We remember American Hero 808 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 1: Special Agent Aaron Garcia, Union Pacific Rail PD, killed in 809 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: the line of duty after just two years, leaving behind 810 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 1: a grieving wife, Wanna, and sons Aaron and Andrew sentenced 811 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: to life without dad. American Hero special Agent Aaron Garcia. 812 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for 813 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,960 Speaker 1: being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but 814 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:50,240 Speaker 1: I'll see tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend.