1
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,799
Speaker 1: Police in North Carolina say this high school was supposed

2
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,239
Speaker 1: to be the site of a massacre. A teen is

3
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: arrestigious moments before he allegedly planned to carry out an

4
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 1: attack at his high school in Union County, near Charlotte,

5
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 1: to bringing knives, flammable liquid, and a hit list with

6
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,119
Speaker 1: up to a dozen names on it to school. But

7
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: investigators say the boy posted in an online chat room

8
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 1: about plans to stab several students at his school. They

9
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,279
Speaker 1: say they were tipped off to the planned attack by

10
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: authorities in Canada. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

11
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 1: The student, whose name has not been released because he's

12
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,599
Speaker 1: younger than sixteen, was not a troublemaker. We spoke to him.

13
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,519
Speaker 1: He was very calm. Thirty say the plot was foiled

14
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: with minutes to spare. The sheriff said today he is

15
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: now getting some counseling help. Let's travel to know that

16
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: your kids can come school and not be safe. I

17
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:06,279
Speaker 1: remember Columbine, I remember Dylan Clebold, and I remember all

18
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,680
Speaker 1: of the copycats that followed. I remember the violence in

19
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: our school systems. When I was a prosecutor for ten

20
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 1: years in Inner City Atlanta, I would go to public

21
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: schools to find defendants, felony defendants, witnesses to felonies. It

22
00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 1: was not a good thing to be walking up and

23
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 1: down the halls of a middle school looking for a

24
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: murder defendant or a rape defendant. But I did it,

25
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,319
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what could be worse than that

26
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:45,640
Speaker 1: until Columbine, the Columbine massacre occurred. I Nancy Grace, this

27
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Joining me in addition to the Duke.

28
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 1: Alan Duke is a very special guest today, A long

29
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: time sparring buddy and friend, Dr Karen Stark joining me

30
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: out of New York. As authorities arrest North Carolina student

31
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 1: armed with weapons and a hit list, It's like we

32
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 1: never learned. A North Carolina high school student just arrested

33
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,079
Speaker 1: in connection with a backpack police find containing dangerous contraband

34
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: like knives and a hit list. What this is in

35
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: thunder Bay Police and thunder Bay alerted the North Carolina

36
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation after they were flagged to an internet

37
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:39,080
Speaker 1: chat room, and this internet chat room contained suspicious material,

38
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: says the n CBI North Carolina Bureau of Investigation. Canadian

39
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,080
Speaker 1: authorities were the ones that were interviewing a girl in

40
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,640
Speaker 1: a different investigation. She leads them to this chat room

41
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: and it's there they find posts made by this North

42
00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: Carolina student about stabbing people. Now, before I go any further,

43
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 1: I want to go to care and start here, and

44
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 1: before we get into what's happening in that North Carolina school.

45
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,920
Speaker 1: It could be any of our schools, but stabbing. I

46
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: want you as a shrink see as a trial lawyer.

47
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 1: I know that there is a psychological difference between someone

48
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 1: who stabs their victim and someone that shoots their victim.

49
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: Also a difference between a stabbing perp and um, let's

50
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 1: just say smothering like you smother a baby or you

51
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,800
Speaker 1: smother someone with a pillow, and asphyxiation strangling by a man,

52
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 1: manual or ligature. A stabbing perp is a whole another

53
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 1: can of worms. Explain it to me. I only know

54
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 1: it just because I know it, but you understand it.

55
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 1: What's different about a young boy who is preparing to

56
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 1: do mass stabbings at his school. The thing with stabbing, Nancy,

57
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: is that they are very personal. What you're naming, whether

58
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: it's suffocation, there's an enjoyment in seeing the person actually

59
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: suffer your close up, You're you're manually doing it. You're

60
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: feeling what's happening. You're actually putting I hate to be

61
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 1: so graphic, but putting the knife into the person, feeling

62
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 1: it go in, and then you derive satisfaction from the

63
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: fact that you're able to have this power. Another thing,

64
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, A lot of people are squeamish with the

65
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: side of blood. They pass out, They can't take it.

66
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 1: Stabbing perhaps have a whole different mentality. What is it

67
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 1: because I always called it a sweetheart murder, and what

68
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,839
Speaker 1: I mean by that you have to get up close

69
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: and personal to your victim in order to kill them.

70
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,600
Speaker 1: You feel the knife go into their flesh, into their heart,

71
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 1: into their chest. You feel the resistance as it goes

72
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 1: through their lungs or their heart, or it hits bone.

73
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 1: You feel that, you see and get sprayed with the

74
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 1: blood when it comes out of their body. You are integrally,

75
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 1: critically part of their death. You're attached to their death.

76
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,920
Speaker 1: It's not like you're at thirty paces. You're intimate. You're

77
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,760
Speaker 1: intimate with the person. Yes, it's not like you're at

78
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 1: thirty paces and you pull your gun and it's kind

79
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: of clinical and at a distance. Uh and a like that,

80
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 1: Karen Stark. They call it sweetheart because it is that intimate,

81
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: and the blood is a part of the whole experience.

82
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:53,600
Speaker 1: The excitement because you're actually getting excited by killing this person,

83
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 1: harming this person. Even the idea that they would die

84
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: in front of you when you could watch them powerful

85
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 1: and its intimate. It's scary. After the North Carolina Bureau

86
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: of Investigation identified the boys, student and a lord of

87
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,720
Speaker 1: the staff at Forest Hills High School in Marshville and

88
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 1: the Union County Sheriff's office there in North Carolina, a

89
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,359
Speaker 1: Union County sheriff deputy assigned as a school resource officer.

90
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 1: That means cops in the school. Now, that tells me

91
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: something right there, that they got to have a cop

92
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 1: in the school. But that cop finds several well, it's

93
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: a it's a sheriff, it's not a cop. Find several knives,

94
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,160
Speaker 1: bottle of flammable liquid, fireworks and dismantled shotgun shell and interesting,

95
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,240
Speaker 1: Karen's dark A hit list inside the book bag of

96
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: the student. A hit list. What does that mean? That's

97
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,799
Speaker 1: not a surprise, Nancy, because it's planned. This guy has

98
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 1: planned that he's going to get revenge and attack these

99
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,600
Speaker 1: particular people, and it's not something despite the fact that

100
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,600
Speaker 1: they're saying that he was, you know, a good kid

101
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 1: and nobody would have ever expected this. If you take

102
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: a look, he's been planning it. He had leakage, which

103
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 1: means he went online and he talked about it. He's

104
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 1: been thinking about how he's going to do it. It's

105
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,239
Speaker 1: not something that he just woke up one morning and said,

106
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'll bring these, you know, knives

107
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 1: and flammable liquid to school. And that makes it all

108
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: the worse. Now we've said sixteen, well some people have

109
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 1: said sixteen, but the suspect, whose name is being withheld,

110
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 1: they say are under He's under the age of sixteen

111
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: and facing criminal charges. Now the teen the boy was

112
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,320
Speaker 1: not on the n CBI radar before this happened, so

113
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: he's totally going under the radar, and police are totally

114
00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,120
Speaker 1: crediting the discovery to the tip it received from at

115
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 1: Canadian law enforcement because of this chat room and this kid.

116
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 1: This boy had been threatening to quote stab several kids

117
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 1: at school today and joining Karen Ellen and I right

118
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 1: now from the Sherlotte Observer is a veteran reporter, Joe Marissa. Now, Joe,

119
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: you've got to correct me on your last name, because

120
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: as much as I practiced it, I'm sure I'm bungling it.

121
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 1: But let me get these two words correct. Thank you

122
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 1: for being with us. Joe. Could you tell us what

123
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 1: you know what's going on in that school? Well, Nancy,

124
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,160
Speaker 1: right now the student UH is under UH psychiatric evaluation

125
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 1: counseling UM at a facility outside the school. That's the

126
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: latest we've heard to see what was in his mind

127
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 1: and what was happening. I can tell you that he

128
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 1: had never caused problems in that school, according to the

129
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 1: the sheriff's resource officer who worked in that school and

130
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: found the bag. You know, I wonder, and again, as

131
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: I always say, I used to beat myself up, Joe

132
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 1: for years when I prosecuted in their city, Atlanta, I

133
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,079
Speaker 1: would look over the defendant and wonder why. Karen Stark

134
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 1: and I've talked about this many times. I just couldn't

135
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: understand why somebody would do such a thing to cause

136
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 1: so much pain. Finally, after about five years of that, Joe,

137
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,959
Speaker 1: I said, why ask why. I've just got to make

138
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: sure I have the right person prove that this happened.

139
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: And put the bad guy away. That's my job, and

140
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 1: I'll leave it up to the Lord to handle the

141
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,760
Speaker 1: rest and to Karen Stark let her figure it out.

142
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 1: So I'm just wondering, though, I can't help but wonder

143
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 1: if he had been a quote good kid all these years,

144
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 1: had he been bullied, had he been mistreated? What do

145
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,320
Speaker 1: we think let up to this? I can't help but

146
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 1: ask why. I'm breaking my own rule. Yeah, well, we

147
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,200
Speaker 1: have to ask why. And the reason we have to

148
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 1: ask why is we have to solve the problem eventually

149
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 1: as a society. And in this case, um uh, there

150
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,440
Speaker 1: is an inclination, inclination to believe that he was bullied.

151
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: Why would somebody come up with a list of nine

152
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 1: to twelve students a kid who didn't cause trouble, did

153
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 1: not cause trouble at all. So I mean the sheriff

154
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: investigators are are interviewing every one of those uh students

155
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 1: on the list to find out what could be and

156
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,840
Speaker 1: to come up with with an answer to your question. Well,

157
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that for a second. I'm

158
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 1: going to digress and go back to Karen. Joe, please don't, please,

159
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,280
Speaker 1: don't leave. I've got a lot more question, many more

160
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,200
Speaker 1: questions to ask you. But Karen, you know, if it is,

161
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,319
Speaker 1: and I am not justifying what this kid did, he

162
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 1: has committed a crime. And this is at the very

163
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:56,439
Speaker 1: least deviation of a terroristic threat. But when you are

164
00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 1: bullied and the school does nothing about it, and it

165
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. I mean, as adults,

166
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: we should be able to cope with that and handle it,

167
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 1: ignore it, deal with it in our own way. But children,

168
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,880
Speaker 1: they're they're shown violent video games, they're shown violent TV shows, movies,

169
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: and then what do we expect them to do if

170
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 1: they don't have the right guidance and the authorities the

171
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: school never does anything to stop the bullying, At some

172
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 1: point they explode. That's true, especially at that age now,

173
00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 1: with the age that we're talking about, teenage, where there's

174
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 1: so much pressure to fit in and belong and just

175
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:45,840
Speaker 1: being excluded and isolated can cause resentment and the snide

176
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,679
Speaker 1: remarks and the kind of bullying that kids can't cope with.

177
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 1: So in some instances, as you know, they wind up

178
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,560
Speaker 1: internalizing it and killing themselves because they can't cope anymore.

179
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 1: Or in this case, this is a student who externalized

180
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,720
Speaker 1: and decided he would take revenge. We don't know whether

181
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 1: he would or not. But I need to tell you

182
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 1: that they don't just suddenly wake up one day and

183
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 1: make a major shift in their behavior and change their

184
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: whole lives. It's something that grows this plan that they have,

185
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: the idea that they're going to get revenge. It's it's

186
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,360
Speaker 1: it's not just he was a good kid. He didn't

187
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 1: cause any trouble. There's something brewing underneath. Back to Joe

188
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: Marsac from the Charlotte Observer again, thank you for being

189
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: with us. If you don't mind, could you walk me

190
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,320
Speaker 1: through exactly what your understanding is of what happened. Well,

191
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: you might not believe it, Nancy, but it started with

192
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: a law enforcement agency monitoring internet chat rooms, a law

193
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 1: enforcement agency from Canada. North Carolina is a long way

194
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 1: from Canada. If started there and they noticed that there

195
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 1: were some threats being made, and they traced it to

196
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,679
Speaker 1: a student here in North Carolina. Immediately contacted the state

197
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation, which immediately contacted the County Union County

198
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 1: Sheriff's office. The Sheriff's office has school resources off officers

199
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 1: in every high school, and so that officer went and

200
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: gently pulled the get out of glass without making a

201
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 1: making any kind of scene, and asked to look at

202
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 1: his book bag. They knew that there was a book

203
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 1: bag that was being brought to the school on two

204
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 1: day and that that the kid had made threats. How

205
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,760
Speaker 1: about that, and that's how it happened. It's just amazing

206
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: to me that they catch it. They day he brings

207
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: the weapons to school. Okay, so they pulled him out

208
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 1: of class. They asked to look at his book bag,

209
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,599
Speaker 1: and then what happens. The officer actually said that the

210
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: student was very home and didn't really react in any

211
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of agitated or any other kind of way and

212
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 1: said sure, And he said sure, look at the book bag,

213
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 1: and that's when they found a bottle of flammable liquid,

214
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 1: at least three knives, um and a hit list with

215
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 1: nine to twelve students named on it. Wow, what do

216
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: you think his actual plan was? Um? Intrigued with the

217
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,000
Speaker 1: idea that he's brought flammable liquid as well. We can

218
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,720
Speaker 1: only go with what he threatened on that chat room discussion,

219
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: and that was that he was going to come in

220
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 1: and hurt these kids. I thought he said he was

221
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 1: gonna stab people Yes, that's exactly it. That's what he said.

222
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 1: I wonder what the flammable liquid was for. What was

223
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: he going to do with that? Yeah, good question. Uh,

224
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 1: the investigators have not elaborated on that. So where is

225
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 1: he right now? And how are they dealing with the

226
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,680
Speaker 1: other students? Well, right now, that's is receiving UM. What

227
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 1: they say is counseling UM at an at an outside

228
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: facility which we can only assume is a mental health

229
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 1: facility in the Charlotte area, and they have offered all

230
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: kids at that school, uh, to to talk this out

231
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: with UM, with you know, uh, the counselors at the

232
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 1: school and whoever else they you know, people in a

233
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: position of authority there to talk it out. I don't

234
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 1: think that that's enough. What do you mean, Nancy? I

235
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: feel like they should be having group meetings where the

236
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: where the kids can talk together and talk about, you know,

237
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: this happening in their school and what it means to them,

238
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: because the kids often have PTSD as a result of

239
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 1: this kind of a situation, even if it hasn't happened,

240
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 1: the idea that this could actually happen in their own school,

241
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: so they need to address it on a large scale.

242
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,239
Speaker 1: School massacres first came to the forefront April twenty nineteen,

243
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 1: eighteen years ago. It was eleven nineteen in the morning.

244
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday, and Columbine went down.

245
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 1: A school shooting that occurred at Columbine High School in Columbine.

246
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 1: It's an unincorporated area of Jefferson County in Colorado. It

247
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: was a highly planned and complex act and involved a

248
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 1: fire bomb to divert firefighters, which is what made me

249
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,280
Speaker 1: curious about this North Carolina kid bringing flammable liquid pro

250
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 1: pain tanks converted to bombs and placed in the cafeteria

251
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: nine nine explosive devices car bombs, and the perpetrators turned

252
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 1: out to be seniors Eric Harrison Dylan Klebold. Twelve students

253
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 1: and one teacher were murdered, twenty one others harmed. Three

254
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 1: more aren't injured attempting to escape. The pair subsequently committed suicide,

255
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:13,719
Speaker 1: and their precise motives always remained unclear. Their personal journals

256
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 1: document that they wanted their actions to compete with the

257
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: Okay City bombing and other deadly incidents. It's hard to

258
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,440
Speaker 1: imagine high school kids and that level of pre planning.

259
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: What do you think about our reporter from Charlotte, the

260
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: Charlotte Observer joining us, what do you think? Well, I

261
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: I just think that there are so many incidents that

262
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: have happened in our country that I don't think it's

263
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: I think they just there are a copycatting what they've

264
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 1: that they've already seen and heard. Um who knows what

265
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 1: that is in this particular students insidance. But I'm not

266
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 1: surprised that they just copycat. Unfortunately, Joe, what if anything

267
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 1: do you know about the North Carolina boys family? We

268
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 1: don't because the sheriff uh is uh saying that he

269
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,680
Speaker 1: is not going to release the boy's name or any

270
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 1: other information because he is a miner. He will be charged,

271
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 1: though he wanted to make it make it perfectly clear

272
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: that this boy will be charged. I can't believe it's

273
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 1: still a secret, because while the sheriff may be keeping

274
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 1: in a secret, UH High school is anything but secretive. Okay,

275
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: they all know exactly what's happened. You know it's going

276
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,639
Speaker 1: to be If it's not already out, it's going to

277
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 1: be out at any minute. It may be as we're speaking.

278
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 1: So what do you anticipate it is going to happen

279
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: now Jove, the sheriff says that he will be charged

280
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,959
Speaker 1: and and and and the charge could be um, you know,

281
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 1: um one of the charges could be bringing weapons, uh,

282
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, of mass destruction onto a school campus. But

283
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: he will be charged as a miner. He's under the

284
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,639
Speaker 1: age of sixteen. And uh so that's what's gonna happen.

285
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 1: That it's going to be the next development. Um. But

286
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 1: we're hoping to you know, uh find out more from

287
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 1: uh parents and the rest of the school community as

288
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 1: to what courses of action they're going to take and

289
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: their reaction. You know, it's scary to me with two

290
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: children in school, how little we know? What is it?

291
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: What's in the backpacks, what's going on, what's going on

292
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: beneath the surface? What has not been addressed? And they

293
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 1: keep saying he's under sixteen? What does that mean? Is

294
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: he twelve? Is he thirteen? Is he fifteen? Because there's

295
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 1: a big difference in twelve and fifteen in my mind?

296
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: Do we do you have an idea how old he

297
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: really is? Joe. We think he's he's got to be

298
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: at least uh fourteen, that's what we're thinking. He's in

299
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: the high school he's got to be and our guest

300
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 1: right now is fifteen. But we don't know, but we

301
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 1: will find that out. Ryan Alan did I was at

302
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: Columbine the night after it been spent two weeks. They're

303
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: trying to find out what happened. These kids were seniors,

304
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: Harris and Cleibold. Weare seniors. They've been in this high

305
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,120
Speaker 1: school for four years. But it was documented that over

306
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 1: that four years they'd had these bullying confrontations where these

307
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 1: jocks it was like the jock click had been allegedly

308
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: bullying them and making homophobic remarks against them, and that

309
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: had been building up for years and years. If this

310
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: is a high school nine through twelve, this kid was

311
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: just there for a year or two. But perhaps it

312
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: would be interesting to know how long did he know

313
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: those people on the hit list? How long had he

314
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: been in that community? Had it been building up for years?

315
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: And there's a good chance that it that it was

316
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: you're right, what do you know about that Joe? How

317
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: long has he been in the high school? We don't know.

318
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: We just don't know yet. That will that will come out.

319
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 1: We're confident it will. There's another big difference here. This

320
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 1: young man had knives, big knives, bowie knives, hunting knives,

321
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: combat knives, that's what he had. The little firecrackers he

322
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: had that wouldn't really do a lot of damage to anybody.

323
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: Those are blown up in my end when I was

324
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: a kid, got blisters. But he had these knives. He

325
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: did not have guns. Does that mean he didn't have

326
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: access to guns or does it mean that he was

327
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,959
Speaker 1: just so fascinated with knives. That is a difference from

328
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: the traditional school attack. Have we had that many attacks

329
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: like this that were actually carried out? Typically when we

330
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 1: hear about these school attacks, it's guns. Yes, that's true. Yea.

331
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: In fact, I've written about them. The moves had cases

332
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: I hate to say about like this in in the

333
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 1: past recent years. I mean, this is not the first

334
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: time I've written a story about such an incident. It

335
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: just doesn't. But usually it involves finding guns on the

336
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: on the campus. Well, Joe, what what's the law? What's

337
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: being done in North Carolina, which pretty much reflects the

338
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: rest of the country to guard the otherst units against this? Well,

339
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: that's where um we have this is and this is

340
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: where worked so well in this case is we have

341
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: UH certified Sheriff's deputies assigned as school resource officers in

342
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: all of the high schools and other schools. And that's

343
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: to help nip this in the bud. When they pick

344
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: up a rumor, when a teacher picks up a rumor,

345
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: the officer can help help stop whatever um might be

346
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: happening or might be about to happen. That's really uh,

347
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's this. That's the safety guard that we have.

348
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: I gotta hand it over to Canadian authorities and North

349
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: Carolina Bureau of Investigation because they caught this and caught

350
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: this in the nick of time, and they acted on it,

351
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 1: and they probably said, who knows how many laws you know,

352
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: depending on what he was trying to do, So they

353
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: get all the credit in my book exactly right now,

354
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to find out more about which authority, uh

355
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: this started and why they even came across this, Why

356
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: did they happen to come across this? So what happens now?

357
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: Where will he be charged and arraigned? What do we

358
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 1: know Joe, Well, he's still in a facility, so we

359
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: don't know. It depends on and this happens with adults

360
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: to where they however long it takes to do an

361
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: evaluation at all. That's their priority. He's in a secure location, UM,

362
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: you know the you know he's under under watch and

363
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: and so as soon as he is released, when the

364
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: doctors say he can be released, UM, you better believe

365
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: that the sheriff's deputies will be right there to take

366
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: him uh to the proper juvenile court to um to

367
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: face charges. Oh, I'm sure, Joe, Thank you for being

368
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: with us. And last word to you, Karen start what

369
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: are their parents supposed to do with this? These parents

370
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: needed I'm hoping where we are the fact that there

371
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: was a change in their child and what they do

372
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: and they need to do now, UM is to understand

373
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: and just accept that he was very troubled. But I

374
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: also wanted to say Nancy that I think it's important

375
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 1: for all parents to learn from this. It isn't a

376
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 1: terrible thing to prepare your children for the fact that

377
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: this might happen in their school, just to tell them

378
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: ahead of time if something like this did happen, what

379
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: you would need to do. So that's to prepare other students,

380
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: you know, like going under desk, locking the door, calling please,

381
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: but also with your own children. There is a shift

382
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: and you have to look for it. This is an

383
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: age where they struggle with their identity and pier groups

384
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: and the pressure is very very strong, and you have

385
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: to see as your child getting to be more withdrawn, secretives, um, isolated,

386
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: not a lot of friends, often depressed and and they

387
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: don't diagnose it, so you are they less active and

388
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: to take to really be serious about these signs and investigate,

389
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: talk up, don't keep it to yourself, make sure your

390
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: child is okay. To Karen Stark and Joe marsak Alan Douke,

391
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us our eyes on that

392
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: North Carolina High School. Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,