WEBVTT - The Appalachian Trail: A Heckuva Hike 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to stuff you should know. A production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.600 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. And I'm Josh, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.239 there's Chuck. Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.040 should know to get out there and do. An addition, 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.200 just a couple of no bos hanging out in front 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.240 of the mic. M hmmm mm hmm. And if you 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.360 don't know what a nobo is, prepare to learn. I 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.720 thought you were gonna give me a trail name. I 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.920 can think of one. I was, how about starfish? Your starfish? 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.200 All right? What are you um? You're like, I don't 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.120 know what he eats a starfish. I'll be jellyfish. Jellyfish, okay, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.240 and Jerry will be sunfish. Uh so our little sunfish. Yeah. 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.400 And it will make sense as long as we hike together. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.040 But if one of us gets ahead of the other 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.959 behind the other, then it'll just seem weird. Finally, we're 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.880 talking about the appalach and trail. Boy. We've been asked many, many, 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.640 many many times over the years to cover this by 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.760 generally by through hikers that like, I'm listening to your 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.000 show as I hike from Georgia to Maine, and uh, 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.680 we're finally getting down to it. Mm hmm, it is 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.960 about time for sure. In a big thank you to 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.319 Dave Rus for helping us with this one. I don't 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.399 believe he ever threw hike the A T, which makes 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.039 this even more impressive all the info he came up with, 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.440 you ever hiked any any of the eight? I think 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.839 I accidentally did and maybe Unicoise State Park and didn't 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.600 realize that's what I was doing. Um, I had no 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:38.560 idea I was on the A T. But now I 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.520 had a friend, um named Mitch who I went to 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.280 high school with, not dirty Mitch from this Gabies episode 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.920 of different Mitch and a few years sure, I don't 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.800 know about that, but still um medium Sure. A few 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.800 years after high school he he threw hiked the A T. 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.160 And he was the first and I think maybe the 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.920 only person I know who has uh my ends older 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.400 brother hiked the A T with his dog, his sort 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.560 of regular Doughey black lab, and Dude, that dog came 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:14.440 back ripped back like a black lab that was built 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.080 like a pit bull. Yeah. I can imagine. Because one 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.480 of the most physically demanding things you can do is 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.680 through hike the Appalachian Trail, and through hike means that 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.880 you hike the whole two thousand, one hundred and ninety 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.200 four point three miles from Georgia to Maine or Maine 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:36.080 to Georgia in one straight shot, usually averaging about four 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.920 to five to six months to do it. That's right, well, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.000 not necessarily in one straight shot, as we'll see, because 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.600 you can do it in leap frogate and do it 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.480 in chunks, and I think it all counts as long 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.399 as you do it within the same year. But for me, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:54.040 and I used to want to do this, I had 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.280 a big, gigantic A T poster that hung on my 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.120 walls for many, many years, and my time has passed 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.560 to do this. But I think my new goal is 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.000 I would like to hike the entire Georgia portion. Okay, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.480 at some point I have hiked portions of it in Georgia, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.359 but uh, when I wanted to hike the A T. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.480 I was always of the mindset and not that there's 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:18.920 any right or wrong way to do it, but I 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.760 wanted to do it just all in one go, and 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.840 not do it in chunks, and just start out at 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.520 Springer Mountain in Georgia and end up with some mountain 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.600 in Maine. Canadain. That's right. Yeah, that's a through hike 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.120 for sure, and that's the that's you would be a nobo, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.800 like you said, going from yeah, from Georgia to Maine. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.839 If you went from Maine to Georgia, which is again 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:42.400 another way you can do it, you'd be a sobo 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.120 for southbound. But the thing is chucked. I think three 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.080 million people hike on the a T every year, some 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.240 little segment or portion. They're called section hikers. Anyone who 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.000 doesn't hike the whole thing in one shot as a 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:59.360 section hiker. But of those three million people, just a 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:04.160 few are several thousand people try it, try through hiking 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.120 every year, and only one and four of them is 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:12.600 successful because it's so hard to do. Yeah. It is 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.599 the longest hike only footpath in the world. Uh. There 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.440 are longer trails for sure. Uh. And at some point 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.679 we might do one on the Great Specific Rest Trail. 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.640 But um, you can take pack mules and horses on 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.880 the PCT. Uh, you are not allowed to. You can 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.040 only take your body and your own feet on the 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.000 Appalachian Trail. Yeah. Whereas Dave puts it on the a T, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.520 the pack animal, as you that's a great line. That's 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:46.080 very yakov SnO. So in addition to it just being 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.240 really really long, Chuck, there's a lot of ups and downs. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.680 There's a lot of crazy terrain. There's a lot of 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.479 dangers that will see. But those ups and downs amount 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.560 to over that whole distance, four hundred and sixty four thousand, 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:04.360 five of hundred feet of elevation gain and loss. And 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.280 Mount Everest is about twenty nine thousand feet, So if 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.640 you started at sea level and walked up and down Everest, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.760 you'd have to do that eight times to equal that 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.240 amount of elevation gain or loss that you're gonna walk 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:21.160 along the Appalachian Trail in that one straight shot. That's right. Uh. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.239 That is not to say I mean those are apples 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.160 to oranges, but that just puts it into perspective a 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.000 lot of a lot of mountains you're hiking up and down. 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.599 I never claimed they were both apples, No, No, I know, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.120 I just don't, like, I don't want people that have 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.560 climbed Everest to be like, dude, you can't even compare 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:42.000 the two. That's such a good Everest climber impression. Almost 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:47.560 stood up there, bro Um. All right, so let's talk 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.760 about this history wise. Uh. The original human being that 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.440 thought this was a good idea was named Benton Mackay, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.599 who obviously was a hiker in the New England area 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.880 and went to High of It, got a degree in 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:06.200 forestry and worked as a land use planner and was 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.120 hiking along in Vermont one day in the Green Mountains, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.760 climbed a big tree, looked out upon all the peaks, 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.040 you know, those nice little rounded peaks of the Appalachian Mountains, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.040 not like the Rocky Mountains. We've talked about that. Why, Uh, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.640 it's because of wind, and said, you know what, that's amazing. 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.919 I've been trying to interlink trails in New England to 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:33.239 make hikes longer. Is it even possible? Could we link 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.920 a trail from Georgia to Maine all along this Appalachian Range? Yeah? 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.159 And that's a great first thought. But then he had 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.279 plenty of successive follow up thoughts about that idea. UM. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.560 He wrote a paper called an Appalachian Trail, a Project 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:53.840 in Regional Planning in n and UM he basically said, hey, 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.760 in addition to this interconnected trail that forms one big 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.159 trail along the Appalachians, we can also build shelter is 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.400 for people hiking. We can build community camps, we can 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.360 build farms that are run by labor unions and basically 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.120 socialize the woods to give people a chance to get 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.280 away from the rest of the world. Yeah, it was 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.040 like a really really grand plan and one that like 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:21.320 super admirable I think, Yeah, for sure, I I admire it. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.000 And Yeah, the thing is is he was like, as 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.920 Dave put it, he was the tree hugger who came 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:27.920 up with this idea, and he definitely was, and he 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.440 had a real vision for it. And people came along 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.280 and said, that has a great idea. We're gonna really 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.560 trim off this fat about socialism and labor unions and stuff, 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.480 but the rest of it we really like. And McKay 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.080 was like, hey, what do you mean fat? And uh 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.160 that that it just kind of got taken away from 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.200 him from their well sort off. He still worked a 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.880 lot with. Uh. This other guy who came along who 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.680 we're going to talk about named Myron Avery, And this 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.400 is how Dave put it. By all accounts, Myron Avery 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.800 was a great a jerk. Here's the thing. Myron Avery 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:05.000 was a lawyer, a maritime attorney, a big time hiker 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.840 from Washington, d C. Who took charge of the project 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.560 in nineteen thirty and everything. I read up a lot 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.080 about this guy, because anytime I see someone just kind 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.840 of categorized as a big time jerk, I'm kind of 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.080 curious because it's probably complicated, and it sounds like he 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.320 was very stubborn and he was a perfectionist and he 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.320 kind of just didn't want to listen to other people, 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.280 Like he would go into a community and that they 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.520 would have ideas like, hey, why don't you get the 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.240 community on board with this and get some community support, 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.240 and he was like no, he was like, we should 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.920 just make this trail and then they'll see the benefit. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.000 The locals will see the benefit and its value afterward, 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.680 and all we need to do is just blaze forward, 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.120 no pun intended as you'll see, and and just do 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.720 this thing. And it sounded like he was just really 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.800 tenacious and he did burn bridges, and it sounds like 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:01.840 he had a big ego and he may have been 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.719 a bit of a jerk in a bully, but I 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.960 think it's probably a little more complicated than to just 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.440 say he was a big a hole, for sure, But 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.520 he was enough of a whole Are we singing that now? 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.520 I mean I just did. Okay, So he was enough 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.360 of one of those that he and mackay had a 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.960 falling out and McKay stayed away from the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.040 which Myron Avery led until Myron Avery died at age 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:29.880 fifty two of a heart attack. From being such a 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.640 type a personality. Yeah, I mean they had they worked 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:34.520 together for a while and then eventually couldn't sort of 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.360 see eye to eye, so he backed out. Have you 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.319 ever read the book A Walk in the Woods by 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.120 Bill Bryson? No, but I'd like to chuck you will 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.560 love it. It's Did you read it? Oh? Yeah, it's 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.280 It's one of those best in your late teens early twenties. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.120 But I think you would appreciate it no matter what 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.800 your age. It's just a great book. And he's such 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.400 a great writer, and his um, his Companion on the Trail, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.080 is just such a great like oil and comic relief. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.080 It is just a really good book. But in it 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.440 he he described Myron Avery is blazing to two trails 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.640 from Georgia to Maine. One was of hurt feelings and 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.440 bruised egos. The other was the t uh well for 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.240 his stubborn efforts. Uh. The east peak of Bigelow Mountain 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.400 and Maine is now called Avery Peak. Oh it's nice 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:29.000 or a whole peak. Oh boy? So Avery did walk 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.560 the Appalachian Trail. He mapped apparently every square inch of 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.560 it because again he was in charge of it, and 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:41.160 he was such a um, a pragmatic and totally driven 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.040 visionary that um he got the A T completed in 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.520 seven years and it opened to the public in ninety 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.760 seven because of him, that's right. Uh. And after it 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:57.800 was completed, everyone was like, this thing is great, but 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.160 is anyone ever gonna really? I know you link these trails, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.240 but is anyone even capable of hiking this whole thing? 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.800 And we will let you know if that's possible, well, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.440 or at least who made that possible. Right after this 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:44.280 and drum roll, Uh boy, your drum You need to 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.600 change your drumhead, my friend, we need to work on 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.280 our timing to Okay, what does that mean? I finished 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.520 my drum roll and you were still talking about my drumheads. Sorry, 0:11:54.600 --> 0:12:06.760 let's try it again. Look, No, that's great, it's really good. Uh. Yes, 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.240 we know that we can complete the A T we're 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.319 being coy. Many people have done it, but the very 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.240 first time that it was done was but eleven years 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.080 after it opened, and a man named Earl Schaefer, Pennsylvanian 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.000 from York County World War two Vett who uh you 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.680 know we what we called this now is PTSD by 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.480 you know, back then they just you know, called it 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.559 suffering from war demons. But he clearly had some kind 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.679 of PTSD and and was quoted as saying he wanted 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.080 to walk the army out of his system and started 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.520 at the time, it was not at Springer Mountain and 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.840 Georgia at the time. It was Mount Oglethorpe in Georgia 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:51.920 on April four, nineteen and didn't even have a tent. No, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.520 he had a poncho that he slept under, had paper maps, 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.280 he had a compass. He was wearing Russell Moccasin Company's 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.120 bird Shooter boots and they still make those. Actually they're 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.839 nice looking boots, but I would not like the t 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:09.320 and them very expensive. They're like fours. But I believe 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:14.920 they're so handmade that you can find like fingernail clippings 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:20.239 in them. Yeah, that's handmade chuck. That is super handmade. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.120 So He did this in a hundred and twenty four days, 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.280 the first guy to ever through hike the a T 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:32.160 did it way above average of what people do today. Yeah, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.840 he was making about sixty miles a day on average. 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.760 So not only did he, you know, set the bar 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.280 by being the first person to throw hike, he said 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.120 a really high bar as far as records to break, 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.439 Like that wasn't just something the second person was going 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.800 to do better than you know, Yeah, for sure. His 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.360 advice was carry as little as possible, but choose that 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:57.320 little with care. Uh And everyone said duh and he went, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.120 shut up, I'm the first one to do it. I 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.120 get to have my my advice has given out. And 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.360 he did it again just to prove himself in nineteen 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.840 and was the first person to do it both ways 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.480 in both directions, and then at almost eighty years old 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.400 in the late nineties, he did it one more time. Yeah, 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.480 and there's other other trail legends, but he was definitely 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.040 the first. They called them crazy one Earl Schaefer and 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.160 then original crazy one apparently. Yeah, I guess there was 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.520 somebody who was just as crazy who came along. Well, 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:29.800 I'm sure a lot of people are like oh, I'm 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.640 gonna be crazy one too. And then you know, yeah, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.720 you know it's steal his name. No, that's his trail name. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.480 So Charles. Um we said that the Appalachian Trail goes 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:45.400 from um Georgia Springer Mountain to Mount cadad In in Maine, 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.840 and as it as it winds from one place to 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.720 the other, it goes through fourteen different states, some more 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.680 than others. Virginia it goes for about five and fifty 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.800 plus miles. West Virginia, which is very jealous of Virginia 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:04.080 in this respect, only has eighteen miles of Appalachian Trail. Yeah, 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.680 that's what I said to But if you add all 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.640 these together, a couple hundred miles here, tens of miles here, Um, 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.520 you have this whole mile trail, and on average it 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.720 takes a through hiker about a hundred and sixty five days, 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:24.400 which again this is today with modern amazing gear people 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.400 average a hundred and sixty five days, And Earl Schaefer 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.160 did it in a hundred and twenty four back in 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:34.360 nineteen eight with fingernail boots, right exactly. It just makes 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.280 his accomplishment that much more amazing. Um. But one guy 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.680 showed up Earl Schaefer like nobody's business, didn't he? Oh yeah. 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:48.840 A trail runner named Joe McConaughey in average fifty miles 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.880 a day to complete the eight and forty five days, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.560 twelve hours and fifteen minutes. I had my little blaze 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.880 pun earlier. If you've ever hiked any portion of the 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.080 A t um you will know about the blazes. If 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.320 you've never hiked the A t you may wonder, how 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:06.640 do you know that you're still on the A T 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.560 and you don't accidentally go off on another trail, which 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.360 is possible. But it is marked with little blazes there. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:20.680 It's a rectangular piece of paint, piece of paint. It's 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:26.240 a rectangular swash of paint, brushstroke of paint. Uh. And 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.760 they're about I don't know, I feel like they're about 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.240 six by three inches or so. Uh. And they are 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.520 on trees and rocks about every seventy feet or so. 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.000 So it is a very very well marked, whale well 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.720 trod trail. That's hard to say, So don't don't be 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.920 afraid of getting lost. And there are plenty people on it. Uh. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:50.280 It is not to say you should go into it 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.880 lightly or without any preparation, but it is. It's pretty 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.120 easy to find your way along the A T. Yes, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.680 it is. And you're gonna encounter plenty of people along 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.840 a tube because remember three million people a year hike 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.760 it to some extent. And again, there's thousands and thousands 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.400 of people who are nobos or sobos trying to throw 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.840 hike at any given on any any given year. And 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.800 because of the weather and the distance that you're covering, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.600 you're actually going through the A T in different seasons, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.200 so there's actually like certain windows, depending on which direction 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.440 you're going north or south, um, where you can hike 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.480 the A T. So all of those thousands of people 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.240 are not spread out over a full year. They're actually 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.920 kind of condensed in four or five or six month 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.280 periods on any given years. So you're definitely gonna have 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.560 lots of companions on the trail, whether you like them 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.960 or not. Yeah. Well, trail sex is a thing too, Yeah, 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.680 I saw, it's not nearly as much as you would think. Yeah, 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.200 I'm sure, Okay, I don't know. I mean I'm sure 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.080 that these uh, these dirty hippies out there sweating it 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.200 up for days at a time, don't mind knocking boots 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.840 under the stars. But no, it's not the sexiest way 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.639 to do things. I saw that that was saved for town. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.040 Oh okay, like your your zero day, like you take 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.720 a down day, maybe stay in a cheap hotel, take 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:20.480 a shower, meet a friend, starfish meat and jellyfish meat, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:25.679 starfish right, and they have sunfish. Sure that this is 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.240 something weird just happened. I'm glad we planned that out. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.360 Uh So, if you are a NOBO, you're gonna want 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:34.639 to and if you want to hike the a t 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.119 there are books out there that like, and websites and 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.840 and blogs that will tell you very specifically exactly. You 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.200 can map it down to the day if you want, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.680 like day one, day two, um, or you can kind 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.919 of do your own thing. But generally, if you're a NOBO, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.399 you're probably gonna want to start at Springer Mountain in 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.440 the early spring and like March or April. So those 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.920 first couple of months, those first few months, actually you're 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.679 be hiking and pretty good weather h as far as 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.560 it getting too hot, Uh, it will get elevation. You 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.359 can get snow still for sure. In March and April 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.040 in North Carolina and Tennessee even parts of Georgia. So 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.000 the disadvantage there is that you will have to pack 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.199 some cold weather gear for your first five miles or so, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.600 which you can ditch in mail uh mail home at 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.359 some point if you want, right, But you have a 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.960 much longer stretch of time to finish your through hike 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.440 than you do if you're going from Maine to Georgia 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.280 or southbound. UM. And because you have a much more 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.760 limited window of about four to five months UM, you 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:41.600 have to cover a lot of miles every day. So 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.919 being a sobo, if you see a SABO on the trail, 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.719 this is probably not their first hike. They're usually pretty 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.679 experienced and can make it over some unforgiving terrain a 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.120 lot faster than the average hiker, I would guess for sure. 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.080 And you talked about the amount of people hiking, there's 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.879 something called the bubble, So early on in March and April, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.119 the nobo areas get pretty and when we say congested, 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.280 it's not like you're surrounded about like hundreds of people, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.920 but it definitely thins out as you go. Yeah, but 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.480 that's a real advantage to being a sobo is far 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.919 fewer people start north to south UM. So you're going 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.040 to run into a lot less people at the time, 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.480 and by the time south and by the time you 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.119 do start running into those original members of the bubble, 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.640 they've thinned out because again, remember only one and four 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.520 people make it all the way through the a T 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.399 and it's not like they all make it close to 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.800 the end. People burn out at different spots along the way. Yeah. 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:41.920 And then I mentioned at the very beginning the flip 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:44.960 flopping technique, that is when you're doing it in chunks 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.159 to really try and get the best weather everywhere you 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.399 are at the time. Uh. And there's a leap frogging 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.639 route where you would start in Georgia in April, uh 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.679 late April, just as so you maybe don't get that 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.560 snow that we were talking about out. You hike to 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.840 West Virginia to Harper's Ferry, and then you leap frog. 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.680 You can take a car, you can take a train 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.320 anyway you would normally get somewhere not by foot. You 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.680 would go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts, then hike north from 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.320 there to finish up by September before that cold weather, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.360 and then you leap frog back down to Great Barrington 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.879 and hike that southern portion back down to Harper's ferry 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.360 that you skipped, and there you have if you ever 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.520 want to hike the a T. Just pack a backpack 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.439 and listen to what Chuck just said and just go 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.399 for it. You don't need any other information, that's correct, 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.560 I think, actually you do need a tremendous amount of information. 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.960 And luckily there's a lot of information out there on 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.680 the web, a lot of really good free advice. UM. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.639 If if you are thinking about, um hiking the A T. 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.720 I'm sure you have already found a lot of these, 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.360 but a good place to start if you're just if 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.119 this episode inspires you, is probably the subredit for the 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:00.920 Appalachian Trail. I know. Just there's a ton of good 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.479 advice on there. Um and just whatever question you have, 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.640 just ask it in type Appalachian Trail, and there's probably 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.960 pages and pages of people who have great advice and 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.840 suggestions on how to do this. UM. And we'll share 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.080 a little bit with you right now. I'm about sleeping 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.840 and eating. Yeah, I used to do plenty of backpacking, 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.000 so I'm familiar with all this stuff. Now. I'm a 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.320 car camper mainly, but I am going to get back 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.840 into backpacking at some point. Um, But I still have 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.240 all that gear. But boy, it's it's a lot lighter 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.440 now than when I bought it. Um. You can get 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.800 an ultra light tent these days that weigh less than 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:40.080 twenty ounces. My friend, it's about one point one seven pounds. 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.040 That's like the weight of a cockatil, a big one. 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.520 That's right. So leave your cocket deal at home too. Um. 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.400 So you know you're gonna want an ultra light tent 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.840 unless you're gonna really really either sleep in a hammock 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.240 or just you know, sleep under the ground under a 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.120 tarp or something. But I would suggest an ultra light tent. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.400 But there are two hundred and fifty shelters along the way. 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.000 I've slept in a couple of these there. It's just 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:08.480 you know, two walls in a roof and a and 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:11.800 a sort of like a small deck that you're sleeping on. 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.520 And it's first come, first serve, uh. You. Some of 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.600