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Speaker 1: Clay Travis with the Clay and Buck Show, wishing you

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Speaker 1: and your family a very merry Christmas and a happy

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Speaker 1: New Year.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. This is the best of with

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Speaker 2: Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 3: We got a special guest with us, doctor Mark Siegel.

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Speaker 3: You all know him from Fox News where he's the

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Speaker 3: senior medical analyst. He's the author of The Miracles among

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Speaker 3: Us how God's Grace plays a role in healing. Doctor Siegel,

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Speaker 3: congrats on the book. Thanks for calling in.

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Speaker 4: Great to be with you today. You know, I'm a

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Speaker 4: friends of your wife, right.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but Carrie is a big fan, so when

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Speaker 3: you have a book coming out, it's not even a question.

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Speaker 3: She's like, she just told me doctor Siegel's come on

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Speaker 3: and talk about his book. I said, yes, ma'am right away,

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Speaker 3: So tell us about the book.

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Speaker 4: Same is me. So look, the book starts with the

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Speaker 4: idea that there's the Catholic Church as miracles that are

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Speaker 4: very rigid. But I actually look into that, and I

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Speaker 4: do a chapter on lords and I in France and

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Speaker 4: I actually interviewed the doctor there di Franciscus, who actually

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Speaker 4: is a Harvard epidemiologist who trained as a pediatrician, and

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Speaker 4: he's very religious. That's the key to this book that

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Speaker 4: you can combine faith and science. They're not different and

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Speaker 4: they're not separate. It's not like, oh, no, I'm doing

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Speaker 4: surgery now I can't believe in God. That's just crazy.

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Speaker 4: In fact, we have to be looking at our patients

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Speaker 4: as precious, as spiritual, as individuals. That's why I'm against

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Speaker 4: physicianists assisted suicide. This book is about people who defy

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Speaker 4: the odds, and in Lords, there's one case of Bernadette,

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Speaker 4: like the Bernadette that inspired Lords years ago, where she

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Speaker 4: was completely unable to walk because of a quota aquina

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Speaker 4: syndrome and she couldn't control her bowels or bladder in

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Speaker 4: a horrible foot pain. She was in a wheelchair. She

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Speaker 4: went and visited there. Three days later she felt heat

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Speaker 4: through her body and suddenly it was fine, and all

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Speaker 4: through prayer and De Franciscus looked at this. But here's

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Speaker 4: the point. He got thirty three other doctors involved, He

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Speaker 4: got an expert and involved, he got radiologists involved, he

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Speaker 4: even got psychiatrists involved. All said, this is really a

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Speaker 4: spontaneous intervention of God. Now that's not the only thing

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Speaker 4: the book is about. Because those are hard miracles, those

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Speaker 4: are church miracles. There's also miracles that I am more

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Speaker 4: interested in, which is an accumulation of coincidences. I call

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Speaker 4: it a miracle lane. You're in the miracle lane and

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Speaker 4: you can't even pick out which is the specific miracle.

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Speaker 4: The publisher of the book from HarperCollins and I A

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Speaker 4: Lisa Sharky. We actually have a back and forth what's

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Speaker 4: the main miracle of that chapter? And Clay will be

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Speaker 4: interested to know that the mar Hamlin story has a

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Speaker 4: lot more miracles to it than you might think.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that because for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there, that is one of the most chilling things

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Speaker 1: to see happen on a football field. For those of

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Speaker 1: you who have forgotten, football player makes a hit playing

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Speaker 1: for the Buffer Bills and nearly dies on the field.

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Speaker 1: They have to bring out the shock machine to try

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Speaker 1: to bring him back to life. They put him in

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Speaker 1: an ambulance Russian out of there. Game basically ends right

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Speaker 1: then and there. What is the backstory now on DeMar

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Speaker 1: Hamlin and how exactly that went down?

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Speaker 4: The backstory is the first miracle. It's that Leslie Bisson,

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Speaker 4: who is the team physician, for the Buffalo Bills and

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Speaker 4: the Buffalo Sabers and the head of orthopedics at Buffalo

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Speaker 4: at the medical School. In two thousand and seven, he

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Speaker 4: had a skater almost die. It was a former Buffalo

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Speaker 4: Sabers skater and he bled from a croatid artery and

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Speaker 4: he barely saved them with all of these transfusions. And

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Speaker 4: he said, you know what, from here on, all of

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Speaker 4: my teams are going to rehearse for tragic events on

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Speaker 4: the field, and they're going to be rehearsed and we're

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Speaker 4: going to be ready. And when he went to the

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Speaker 4: Buffalo Bills, they said, Leslie, you're crazy. We haven't had

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Speaker 4: a carneioc arrest on the field since nineteen fifty five.

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Speaker 4: He says, I'm rehearsing, and he had a premonition that

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Speaker 4: one day this would be needed. But everyone thought he

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Speaker 4: was crazy. But he had a drill and he had

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Speaker 4: a defibrillator right there, and he trained the trainer, the

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Speaker 4: of the Bills, and all of them were ready for

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Speaker 4: an event where somebody dropped on the field like Damar did.

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Speaker 4: That's why they rushed over there. And we have an

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Speaker 4: expression in medicine time his brain and they started CPR

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Speaker 4: so fast, and that defibrillator so fast, and they got

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Speaker 4: their shoulder pads off so fast, only because they had

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Speaker 4: rehearsed it. Now, the next part of the miracle is

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Speaker 4: that when Damarrow was recovering. People don't know this, but

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Speaker 4: Damar and I interviewed everybody for this, and the doctors

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Speaker 4: and the trainers. Andy Demarrow was recovering, it took him

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Speaker 4: a while to feel back in the game, let's say,

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Speaker 4: so to speak. And you know, it wasn't just I won.

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Speaker 4: He woke up, what was the final score? It was

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Speaker 4: more like it took a few days for him to

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Speaker 4: come back to himself. And then it was a combination

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Speaker 4: of prayer, very religious tomorrow and yoga and meditation. All

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Speaker 4: of these things helped him. And then he felt and

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Speaker 4: this is another key to the book, that having received

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Speaker 4: a miracle, he needed to give out miracles. And so

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Speaker 4: he went around the community and he has been the

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Speaker 4: biggest proponent of defibrillators, AEDs automatic defibrillators in any facility imaginable.

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Speaker 4: He's out there teaching CPR with that with the sports

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Speaker 4: dock with Leslie Bisson, and he goes all over the

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Speaker 4: country he's a great human being. God's giving back to.

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Speaker 3: Him just being to doctor Mark Siegel of Fox News,

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Speaker 3: He's got a book out, the Miracles among Us how

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Speaker 3: God's grace plays a role in healing.

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Speaker 5: Doctor Siegel.

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Speaker 3: Interesting that there's research, real research that has been done

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Speaker 3: and is still being done on prayer and helping people

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Speaker 3: to heal. I'm wondering if you could speak to that.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, believe it or not, the part

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Speaker 4: of the brain, frontal part of the brain. I spoke

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Speaker 4: to the researcher on this exact issue, that part of

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Speaker 4: the brain where you connect the dots and you kind

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Speaker 4: of have to use your imagination and creativity that creates

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Speaker 4: such a positive feeling believing in miracles that it takes

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Speaker 4: the place of negative feelings like political divisiveness and the

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Speaker 4: same part of the brain, and it wants you to

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Speaker 4: join a community, and it gives you a sense of

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Speaker 4: hope and reassurance to think that there's a greater force

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Speaker 4: than you out there that makes these decisions. God gives

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Speaker 4: us the miracles he wants us to have, not necessarily

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Speaker 4: the ones we're asking for, and knowing that that we

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Speaker 4: should fear God but not each other. Is greatly uplifting.

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Speaker 4: It definitely decreats his depression and it improves health outcomes,

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Speaker 4: which has been shown again and again. And I also

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Speaker 4: talk about that in the book where way back in

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Speaker 4: the Old Testament, Hannah's praying for a son, and God

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Speaker 4: only answers that prayer because he looks down the road

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Speaker 4: and he knows that son will be Samuel, who becomes

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Speaker 4: a great prophet, so that we have to put our

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Speaker 4: lives and our futures in God hands. Another great story

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Speaker 4: from the book related to that is Robert Redfield's son

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Speaker 4: who hits his head. Robert Redfield, former CDC director, hits

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Speaker 4: his head, goes into a deep coma nearly herniates, is

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Speaker 4: not expected to recover at all, but he ends up

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Speaker 4: being brought to the top trauma center in the country,

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Speaker 4: in the world in Maryland. And Tom Scalia is not

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Speaker 4: a big believer. He runs the place, but he says,

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Speaker 4: you know, we do miracles here every day. I said,

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Speaker 4: what are the chances of Danny Redfield having a full recovery?

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Speaker 4: He says, probably zero. Danny Redfield fully recovers and ends

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Speaker 4: up back on the golf course beating his old scores.

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Speaker 4: Because Robert Redfield and his wife are praying to God

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Speaker 4: every single day. You know, he knew John Paul the scond.

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Speaker 4: He's involved in the Catholic Church. He has a group

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Speaker 4: of Franciscan sisters praying for him in upstate New York.

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Speaker 4: One day, and this is a great story. One day

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Speaker 4: he says to Danny, who starting to recover, something's wrong

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Speaker 4: with your eye. Danny, what's wrong with your eye? Are

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Speaker 4: you seeing double? Danny says no, I can't see out

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Speaker 4: of my right eye at all. So Redfield goes back

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Speaker 4: to God and he says, you promised me a full recovery.

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Speaker 4: And I said to Redfield, you criticized the Lord, and

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Speaker 4: he said, why not? It worked? Two weeks later, Danny singing, well,

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Speaker 4: out of both.

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Speaker 1: Eyes, that's an amazing, amazing tell us how to get

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Speaker 1: the book, because going around I'm going around trying to

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Speaker 1: sell a book right now, I know how hard this

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Speaker 1: is for people out there who like these stories and

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Speaker 1: would like to maybe get some inspiration in their life.

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Speaker 1: How can they find it?

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Speaker 4: And that's the key, By the way, every one of

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Speaker 4: us has a miracle. We can tell. My father's one

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Speaker 4: hundred and two years old, my mother's one hundred. They've

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Speaker 4: kept together through all of the medical turns in the road.

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Speaker 4: You need this.

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Speaker 1: How many years have they been hold on? How many

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Speaker 1: years have they been married.

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Speaker 4: They've been married seventy three years. They and they're married

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Speaker 4: through love of each other. And the fact that doctors

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Speaker 4: believe that you can operate and fix a hip on

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Speaker 4: a ninety eight year old to put a ninety nine

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Speaker 4: year old on a ventilator. Doctors that believe in what

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Speaker 4: they're doing and believe in God are more likely not

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Speaker 4: to give up on you. And that's really important. And

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Speaker 4: every story will inspire you in this book that you

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Speaker 4: might have the same thing happen to you. And you

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Speaker 4: can get this book through Amazon, through Fox News Books,

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Speaker 4: through Barnes and Noble, and it will be published on

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Speaker 4: November eighteenth, but right now it's available in pre orders.

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Speaker 4: Get my book, get your book as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody buy books. Let's read more great books for

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Speaker 3: the holidays. Doctor Siegel, appreciate you, sir, come back anytime.

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Speaker 4: Great to be on with you, guys. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: While we're spending time with family this holiday season, and

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Speaker 1: Buck is stuck in a sound booth recording his new book,

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Speaker 1: you can listen to us on the podcast play.

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Speaker 3: Don't rub it in but that's right. Just fire up

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Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app and kick back with the Sunday Hang

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Speaker 3: guaranteed laughs. Or check out any of our other great

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Speaker 3: hosts in the Clay and Buck podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: There's so much content you won't even miss us.

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Speaker 3: But we'll miss you and look forward to speaking with

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Speaker 3: you again in the new year.

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Speaker 5: Until then, she'll.

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Speaker 2: Time you are listening to the best of Clay, Travis

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Speaker 2: and Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 1: I read a story about this. Buck. You were saying,

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Speaker 1: if a woman says I'm not crazy, you know, running

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Speaker 1: the other direction, she's probably crazy. Some men are taking

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Speaker 1: women's last names.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: I think I would disown my sons. I mean I

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Speaker 1: have three boys. I think if one of them came

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Speaker 1: to me and said, Dad, I am getting married and

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Speaker 1: I am taking my new wive's name. Last name is

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Speaker 1: my own, I would certainly not pay for the wedding

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Speaker 1: and I might take him out of the will. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's some of you out there might.

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Speaker 3: Say, which would actually be meaningful for the Travis boys.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying Travis boys. I mean, I mean I

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Speaker 3: got three boys. They want the they want that you

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Speaker 3: know that out kick money. They don't want to get

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Speaker 3: cut out of the will. That would be bad.

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Speaker 1: If one of them came to me and said, Dad,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I'man gauge. I said congratulations. And then

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Speaker 1: they said, and Dad, I have decided that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to give up our name. I'm going to give up

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Speaker 1: the Travis name and I'm taking my fiance's name instead.

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Speaker 1: I would say, you're out of the will. But this

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Speaker 1: Riley guy, I bet Riley's gonna do it. I bet

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Speaker 1: he's gonna be Okaz Tortes. I back, I back you

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Speaker 1: on on your assessment of that entirely. And little Speed,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Speed, same same rule is gonna apply. I can't

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Speaker 1: take the woman's name, is it? But that that's that's

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Speaker 1: not gonna happen, not gona happen to me. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine it happening. But but this Riley Roberts guy, he

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Speaker 1: may do it. He's gonna be uh a Riley Okazy Quartez.

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Speaker 3: That that I would not not be surprised. He's gonna

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Speaker 3: spend a lot of time explaining why he took AOC's

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Speaker 3: last name and why he's in photos in the background

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Speaker 3: holding her purse. Nonetheless, Uh, the engagement April twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: been engaged for going on four years.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm just how long with you engaged? To

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Speaker 1: do what they do? I don't want to call those people.

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Speaker 5: My husband and I have been married fifty years and

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Speaker 5: have ten children and couldn't be happier, and we were

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Speaker 5: engaged for fifteen years, Like I don't. There's always people

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Speaker 5: do things their own way. It works out great in general.

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Speaker 3: Long engagement not the right move, not the right moves,

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Speaker 3: there's no reason for them.

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Speaker 1: Why anything.

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Speaker 5: You already said you want to get married, get.

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Speaker 1: Married anything more than a year, something's up. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just the guy is just playing for time. He's waiting

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Speaker 1: to see whether the options are going to get better.

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Speaker 1: If you can't get engaged and married in a year,

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Speaker 1: and I look, there are exceptions like, yes, maybe your

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Speaker 1: husband is serving overseas and he's unable to come back.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm talking about if you live in the country, right,

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Speaker 1: and you aren't on an oil rig somewhere in the Arctic, right,

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Speaker 1: and you aren't under a deep cover in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East trying to bring down terrorist organizations, all right, I'm

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Speaker 1: giving a couple of exceptions. If you live in the

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Speaker 1: United States and you are engaged for over a year,

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Speaker 1: it is it is something's up. It's a good advice.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make people's life better. If he's

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Speaker 1: not willing to do that, then something is up. He's

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Speaker 1: just playing for time. Where are you on pre nups?

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Speaker 3: Because people have been pointing out to me there is

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Speaker 3: another James Sexton out there. Have you seen this guy

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Speaker 3: all over the internet. He's a divorce attorney who shares

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Speaker 3: my legal name. Obviously you all know me as Buck.

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Speaker 3: His name is James Sexton, and he's like the divorce

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Speaker 3: attorney to the stars, and now he's become something of

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Speaker 3: almost a life coach, I think, online for people. And

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Speaker 3: he's trying to tell everybody that everybody, regardless of well,

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Speaker 3: should have a pre nup because otherwise the state, meaning

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Speaker 3: you know, whatever state you live in, has one that

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Speaker 3: they've already.

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Speaker 1: Made up for you. I disagree.

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Speaker 3: I am not a pre nup guy. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: guess I'm admitting something very personal on the air here.

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Speaker 3: But unless you're like a unless you're like a Rockefeller

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Speaker 3: and you're on wife number two or three, I I

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Speaker 3: don't think prenups are the move.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I had a negative net worth when I

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Speaker 1: got married, so all I would have been doing is

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Speaker 1: spreading out more of the money that that basically I owed.

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Speaker 1: And we had a negative net worth for a long

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Speaker 1: time early in our marriage too. I do understand like

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Speaker 1: if I had been where I am now and I

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Speaker 1: had never gotten married, I would be skeptical of the

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Speaker 1: world out there in a way that I was not

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty five and I got married. So

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Speaker 1: I think partly its age. And I guess to your point, Buck,

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Speaker 1: if your family is so insanely wealthy, like the Rockefellas

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Speaker 1: back in the day, like maybe the Newsoms, which we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about in the third hour, maybe you should sit around.

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Speaker 1: The word is by the way that Gavin Newsom had

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Speaker 1: a several hundred thousand dollars wedding, which will not surprise you,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that he claimed that he was raised

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Speaker 1: with no assets, which will play for you in the

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Speaker 1: third hour. I think you have to be really wealthy

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Speaker 1: to even think about a prenup. To me, now, everyone,

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Speaker 1: I maybe it's easy to do a prenup if neither

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Speaker 1: one of you have anything. Maybe it's not that much

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Speaker 1: of a fight. And so maybe that's what he's kind

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Speaker 1: of getting at is basically just presumption that the marital

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Speaker 1: union might end. And so if you already have made

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Speaker 1: decisions that are rational, but life's circumstances changed so much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't have kids and you get divorced,

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Speaker 1: to me, that's not I understand, it's like not ideal

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Speaker 1: to get divorced, but if you don't have kids, your

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Speaker 1: divorce is more like a breakup than it is. There's

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Speaker 1: not a child.

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Speaker 3: Share the other James sex then if you go on

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Speaker 3: Instagram or on TikTok, he's every It's like, I mean

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Speaker 3: maybe he's the most famous sex then out there now,

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Speaker 3: who knows. But he says, you break it down into

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Speaker 3: yours mind, communal marital property, and you just start from there.

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Speaker 3: I look, I didn't do it, and I don't advocate

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Speaker 3: for it, but I'm I think it's interesting that now

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Speaker 3: this is becoming, this is growing as a thing before

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Speaker 3: people get married, even when they This is specifically he's

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Speaker 3: saying for people because you don't know, and so set

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Speaker 3: it up now, because you can't set it up after

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Speaker 3: the fact. I mean, there's a scene I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: Donald and Ivanna they had a prenup and that was

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Speaker 3: part of one of these movies or whatever. They're negotiating

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Speaker 3: their prenup, and I do believe there was there was

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Speaker 3: a prenup there, but that's because he's a Trump and

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Speaker 3: he's got a massive fortune. And then you get into

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Speaker 3: the company, you know, the family business. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: how do you split up some of these things? And

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Speaker 3: some of it does get very complicated very quickly. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I just just put it out there.

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Speaker 3: I just want to point out there's another James Sexton, which.

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Speaker 1: Is there's also a lot of a lot of relationship

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Speaker 1: advice that has been given in this segment, all of

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Speaker 1: which I would point out is flawless in Jenie Well, and.

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Speaker 3: Our wives know that both of us, Clay and Buck respectively,

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Speaker 3: according to their wives, folawless when it comes to relationships.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Have all the writers perfect husband, as

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Speaker 1: I'm regularly referred to.

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Speaker 3: Frankly, Yeah, I know, Buck Sexton here, the entire Clay

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Speaker 3: and Buck Show wish you and your family a warm

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Speaker 3: Christmas season and a.

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Speaker 1: Joyful new year.

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Speaker 2: You're enjoying the best of program with Clay Travis and

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Speaker 2: Buck Sexton.

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Speaker 3: Robbie Starbuck joins us. Now he's a conservative activist and

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Speaker 3: many of you are familiar with his work.

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Speaker 5: Robbie, thanks for being here.

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Speaker 3: Tell us your story, man, because you wanted to come on,

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Speaker 3: and I think people need to know about what's been

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks trapping me on. Yeah, it's been wild. What

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Speaker 7: has happened? So essentially two years ago I found out

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Speaker 7: the Google's AI, which then was called Bard, was saying

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Speaker 7: all kinds of crazy stuff about me that just wasn't true,

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Speaker 7: from saying that I was a supporter of the KKK

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Speaker 7: to even making arguments for the death penalty because I

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Speaker 7: guess some of my takes offend people on the left.

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Speaker 7: But then it got much worse when they introduced Gemini

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Speaker 7: and Gemma. Gemini and Gemma went so far as to

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Speaker 7: make accusations that I was accused of sexual assault, of

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Speaker 7: raping people, including people who are PG as possible for

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Speaker 7: the audience in case there's kids in the car. But

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Speaker 7: you know, it can't be stressed enough how hard we

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Speaker 7: tried to get Google to stop this. I notified them

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Speaker 7: starting two years ago that this was going on, and

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Speaker 7: My lawyers at Dylan Law Firm have been repeatedly letting

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Speaker 7: them know and sending cease and desist letters throughout this year,

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Speaker 7: and Google just continued to allow this stuff to go on.

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Speaker 7: The lies got so intense, so elaborate that you almost

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Speaker 7: can't believe it. And it came from prompts as simple

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Speaker 7: as tell me about Robbie Starbuck or somebody looking me up, right.

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Speaker 7: So this wasn't somebody saying, hey, invent a story. It

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Speaker 7: was as simple as tell me about this guy, right.

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Speaker 7: And it got so detailed that invented fake court records,

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Speaker 7: fake police records, fake victims, fake therapy records, and it

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Speaker 7: would get so detailed. But if you said, hey, what

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Speaker 7: are your sources for this, it would invent fake court

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Speaker 7: records and also fake media articles. Okay, so it would

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Speaker 7: say foxnews dot com slash Robbie Starbucks sexual assault allegations

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Speaker 7: or something along those lines. And it did that with

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Speaker 7: all of the major media outlooks essentially and some of

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Speaker 7: the biggest figures in media. It even invented fake statements

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Speaker 7: from JD. Vans and President Trump about the situation. So

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Speaker 7: this is obviously incredibly dangerous and you have to wonder

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Speaker 7: why this is happening, right, because something is feeding this

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Speaker 7: information to the AI, and that we intend to find

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Speaker 7: out in discovery. But if you think about like the

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Speaker 7: longside of this, right, like look ten years down the line,

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Speaker 7: control of our country is decided by a very small

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Speaker 7: number of swing seats, and it's very easy to envision

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Speaker 7: a future where this type of you know, malicious AI

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Speaker 7: is deployed against every right wing candidate in those swing seats,

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Speaker 7: and you're able to shift five to six percent of

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Speaker 7: the boat based on telling wise about the candidates to

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Speaker 7: voters who reach out saying, hey, tell me there's a

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Speaker 7: difference between these two candidates.

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Speaker 1: This is a hugely important story, and I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: coming on. We're talking to Robbie Starbuck. You just heard

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Speaker 1: him late out what happened with Google AI. There's a

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Speaker 1: lawsuit pending. But if they could do this to you,

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Speaker 1: and this is where I think this becomes so important,

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Speaker 1: and you just hit on it. I mean they could

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Speaker 1: do it to yes, Republican Senate candidates, Republican presidential candidates,

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Speaker 1: Republican congressional candidates. But I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there also know that arguably at least those guys

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Speaker 1: can punch back. Yeah, why couldn't they do this to anyone?

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Speaker 1: In America where Google, what happens when your name is

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Speaker 1: googled is probably the number one most important thing on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. I would say for most people in most professions,

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Speaker 1: this seems hugely important, not just for what happened to you,

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Speaker 1: but for the message that it's sending. It could happen

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Speaker 1: to anyone. What are you trying to do to remedy it.

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Speaker 7: Quay, I was hoping you'd bring that up, because you're

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Speaker 7: exactly right. The biggest problem is not that even this

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Speaker 7: is happening to me. Obviously, I'm concerned to damage my

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Speaker 7: reputation all those things, but I'm think about my kids, like,

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Speaker 7: this can happen to your son, your daughter, your wife,

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Speaker 7: your husband, and it could eliminate your ability to get jobs.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I want people to think about this, how

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Speaker 7: far AI is reaching into our lives. It's already being

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Speaker 7: used in reputation scoring for insurance, which, by the way,

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Speaker 7: crazy story. I was actually denied insurance by I think

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Speaker 7: it was five insurers this last year. I've never been

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Speaker 7: denied my life. I'm an autopay person, never been in

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Speaker 7: a car accident, like, there is no reason I should

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Speaker 7: be denied for insurance. It took until the sixth insure

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Speaker 7: for us to even get an offer from a major

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Speaker 7: insurance company. Every other one said risky. Wouldn't tell us why,

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Speaker 7: And we're going to have to figure out through discovery

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Speaker 7: if it was because it was pooling that information from AI.

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Speaker 7: But you can get debanked, you can, you know, have

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Speaker 7: what a job interviewers often do, they google the people

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Speaker 7: who are applying for jobs, right, and so you get

432
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 7: googled on Gemini and they tell this potential job that

433
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 7: you're actually accused of some heinous crime, you know, and

434
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 7: this could be as simple as getting back at you

435
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 7: for your politics. The Google doesn't share, right, So it's

436
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 7: very easy to see where this can get very dangerous,

437
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 7: very fast. And so I think, you know, part of

438
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 7: the remedy here isn't just making me whole and you know,

439
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 7: fixing the situation. It's fixing the problem for good and

440
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 7: setting a standard and setting precedent that AI cannot harm humans.

441
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 7: That needs to be the first principle of AI, because

442
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 7: if you allow it on this level where it's defamatory, right,

443
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 7: you're baking that in at the root level of a

444
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 7: tree that is either going to bear fruit that helps

445
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 7: humanity grow into abundance, or you're going to grow poison

446
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 7: fruit and it's going to be to the detriment of humanity. Well,

447
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 7: you bake in that root is very important. So we're

448
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 7: teaching AI now what is going to later be very important.

449
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 7: It's deployment across all platforms and law enforcement, medicine, everything else.

450
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 7: And so that's why I feel like this is a

451
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 7: critically important fight. I'm thinking ten years out, fifteen years out,

452
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 7: how deeply this is going to affect all of us

453
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 7: and our kids.

454
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: What was it like when you were trying to get

455
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: answers in the early stage and then throughout from a

456
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 3: company like Google that is so vastly powerful and influential,

457
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: connected and resourced. Yet I can only imagine Robbie, like,

458
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: if this happened to me, I wouldn't even know who

459
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: do you call for email? Who can you get to

460
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: actually sit down or speak to you as a human

461
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 3: to try to address this.

462
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: Feels like you were probably.

463
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: In a very uh kafka esque like where do I

464
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 3: go for justice?

465
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: Situation?

466
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was very confusing, honestly, even with me where

467
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 7: I'm able to get in front of the media, I'm

468
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 7: able to you know, pay lawyers to be able to

469
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 7: do this stuff. But back then, initially I raised the

470
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 7: red flag about this publicly, just adding the and direct

471
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 7: messaging people at Google like hey, can you get this fixed?

472
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 7: And eventually a Google employee reached out to me, and

473
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 7: this lady seemed like she wanted to help. So I

474
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 7: laid out the whole story and send screenshots from the

475
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 7: people who had sent them to me and that we

476
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 7: were able to recreate these, which is okay, I want

477
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 7: to help. And I checked in over time, and it

478
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 7: was about three months later she lets me know, I'm

479
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 7: so sorry I wasn't able to fix this. And this

480
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 7: is in a lawsuit. We put this like, we put

481
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 7: all the receipts. Okay, she says, I'm so sorry I

482
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 7: wasn't able to help. I am resigning today and she resigned.

483
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 7: And then things got much worse with Gemma and Gemini.

484
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 7: And here's the other thing that's really scary, right, is

485
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 7: that you'd think a company like this could fix all this, right, Well,

486
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 7: it took until last week to finally get them to

487
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 7: fix some of this stuff. In the actual app and

488
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 7: Thegoogle dot com website. But here's what's crazy. They're over

489
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 7: one hundred and fifty million wild downloads of Gema. Gemma

490
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 7: is also used by developers beyond just being a chatbot

491
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 7: to help develop apps to power the future. Right and

492
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 7: then Gemini, same thing. Gemini has a bunch of uncountable

493
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 7: digital downloads. We don't even know what that number is.

494
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 7: In many of these, they can never be connected to

495
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 7: the Internet or won't be connected to the Internet, and

496
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 7: cannot be fixed remotely by Google. So these things, which

497
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 7: will be used in many different contexts over god knows

498
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 7: how long, can never be changed. And that's pretty wild.

499
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 7: And I think that's something that also has to change

500
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 7: in this process.

501
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: The process of going through discovery and finding all this

502
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: stuff out buck you mentioned how do you even get

503
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: a person to be able to address We found out

504
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: when we sold OutKick to Fox. Fox went through the

505
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: deep dive and they said, hey, you're not indexed on Google.

506
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: And I knew that was true because we would break

507
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: news on OutKick and then we would never show up

508
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: at the top of Google search results. And we had

509
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: gone through this four or five different times with them,

510
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: and they had said, everything's fine. Somebody had just taken

511
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: us out of the Google search results, Robbie. That had

512
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: to be an individual, right, Somebody just decided they don't

513
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: like me. They're one of thousands and thousands, tens of

514
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: thousands of Google employees. They hide your site over in

515
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the refuse so that you can't be found. Do you

516
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: feel like, and again, I know the discovery is underway,

517
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 1: do you feel like ultimately this is malice driven by

518
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: an individual or individuals inside of the company to have

519
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: set up and I know I'm asking you to speculate

520
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: a little bit. Do you think this is just Ai

521
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: run a muck and for some reason you happen to

522
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: get dragged through the cycle like this.

523
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 7: So there's two different things here. One is, you know,

524
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 7: does it meet the legal standard of malice? No matter what, Absolutely,

525
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 7: it doesn't matter what the intent was. The fact was

526
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 7: they were notified so many times over the course of

527
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 7: two years to fix this, and they didn't fix it.

528
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 7: And they continually repeatedly told the same lies, inventing the

529
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 7: same situations with similar victims and evidence and all these

530
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 7: fake news articles and everything. That's growth negligence that equals malice.

531
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: Right.

532
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 7: But then there's my personal view, right. My personal view

533
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 7: is one where I can't I can't get myself to

534
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 7: a place where I think this is just AI run

535
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 7: a muck, right, because Google's response publicly has been to

536
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 7: essentially excuse this as hallucinations, is what they say. Well,

537
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 7: you deep dive into hallucinations, and I've talked to AI experts.

538
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 7: They're typically kind of disjointed and kind of like, we're right,

539
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 7: they're pulling things from different places and kind of mixing

540
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 7: them all together. There's too many similar threads and too

541
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 7: many commonalities in what it continually repeated about me for

542
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 7: it to fit a hallucination pattern, by my estimation from

543
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 7: talking to these experts, And I think lawyers agree with this,

544
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 7: and so when you look at it from that context,

545
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 7: it's very hard for me to get anywhere except for

546
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 7: thinking this was deliberately poisoned. So that's how I view it, right,

547
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 7: is it seems deliberate when you get as detailed as

548
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 7: these things did, and you repeatedly refuse to own up

549
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 7: to the fact that it's a lie, and this is

550
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 7: what's crazy, Like you can literally answer back to this AI.

551
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 7: And we had people saying things like, hey, these news

552
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 7: stories are totally false. Nothing like this ever happened, and

553
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 7: it would double and triple down that it did happen,

554
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 7: And it went so far on one occasion to actually

555
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 7: create a fake article in a real journalist's name when

556
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 7: somebody pressed the AI and saying the link didn't work

557
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 7: to the story it was sending them, so it literally

558
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 7: invented a fake news story. I want people to think

559
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 7: about this. Right, we're at this precipice where we have

560
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 7: all these image generators and voice generators and video generators,

561
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 7: but they're not all quite interconnected to the chatbots as

562
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 7: well as they will be a year or two from now,

563
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 7: maybe even less. Had this continued to happen for another

564
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 7: year or two, it would have literally been inventing fake

565
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 7: videos and audio of me doing these crimes. I want

566
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 7: people to think about that, because if you've seen the

567
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 7: AI outputs that we're seeing in video and audio, there's

568
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 7: currently a top charting music artist I think it's called

569
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 7: Breaking Rust that is AI right like, and you can't

570
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 7: distinguish it from a human being. It sounds like a

571
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 7: real human musician. That is so incredibly dangerous, and again,

572
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 7: I imagine our sons and our daughters facing accusations with

573
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 7: fake AI videos and audio, and hey, it's very clear

574
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 7: when you think about that that we need guardrails, no.

575
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Doubt, Robbie, this is fantastic. If people want to know

576
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: more about this story, where would you tell them to go?

577
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 7: Follow me on social media? YouTube x at Robbie Starbuck,

578
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 7: Robbi Starbuck, or go to rite Starbuck dot comas you

579
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 7: want to read the actual lawsuit. We've put it up

580
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 7: there in case anybody wants to read the full thing.

581
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 7: Even lawyers who don't like me, people who hate me,

582
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 7: have said, like dang, they have absolutely an incredible case.

583
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 7: So I think it's a seminal case in the fight

584
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 7: for fairness and getting rid of bias and AI.

585
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: Appreciate the time. It is an important story. Keep us updated.

586
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 1: We want to continue to share this story as we

587
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: move along.

588
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 7: Thank you, gentlemen for shining a light on it.

589
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: You're listening to the best of Clay Travis and Buck Sexton.

590
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: Bob from Houston. I actually gave Houston a shout out yesterday,

591
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: but Bob says we don't talk enough about how nice

592
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: Texas is.

593
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 8: Bb Now claim Buck, I understand why you give Tennessee

594
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 8: and Florida all the love in the world, and of

595
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 8: course on handing gives a lot of love to Florida

596
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 8: as well, and all of them for very good reasons.

597
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 5: I know why.

598
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 8: Okay, So when are you ever going to mention how

599
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 8: awesome and great Texas is to move to as well?

600
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 8: I love Astown, I love the Greater the Greater Houston

601
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 8: area is really thriving. It's become so big and massive,

602
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 8: it's going to be better and bigger than New York.

603
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: Get out there. We love Houston, we love tear.

604
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: It's fair, we we I try to throw in the

605
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: throw to the mix that Texas is great too, But Clay,

606
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: I think that Texas has always been the red sanctuary

607
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: for you know, it's like, if you want to go red,

608
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: you've known. Florida has become red under Rondosantis and part

609
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: of the the post covid uh Revolution freedom revolution here,

610
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: and then Tennessee I just think has become more of

611
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: a national destination.

612
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, I think that's all true. I try to

613
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: say Texas, Tennessee, and Florida because all three have no

614
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: state income tax, so.

615
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: Well, that's the big that's the big test. By the way,

616
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: if you're the real deal, you should have no state.

617
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: I've talked to other Red state governors about this and

618
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: they wish they could join, but it's very hard to

619
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: get those entrenched interests once they get used to those

620
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: tax dollars to get rid of it.

621
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, uh, Phoenix k f Y. I also

622
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: love the state of Arizona. Great place. Yeah this is true,

623
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: but listen to her take away.

624
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 7: Listening to Hannity the other day and he said that

625
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 7: he's made several bets with you and you haven't paid

626
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 7: up at all.

627
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: I owe showing a lot of money. It's true. I

628
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: mean the range with they can play, they can play

629
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: it on Hannity. I owe Sean hundreds of dollars. I

630
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: think he's won every sports bet with me, and it's

631
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: convin convenient. I don't carry a lot of cash typically

632
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: know this.

633
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: Sean Hannity is smoking the OutKick guy when it comes

634
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: to sports betting.

635
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: I've lost a lot of bets with Sean. I owe

636
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: him hundreds of dollars, and it's it is funny every

637
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: time I see him, I'm like, sorry, I just don't

638
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of cash. I do not typically carry

639
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: a lot of cash. But he's not. He's not lying

640
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: when he says that I owe him and that that

641
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: so far I haven't paid him. I got to.

642
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: I should have to like join him in their New

643
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: York City studio next time you're in New York and

644
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: pay up on air claim Hapy to make amends.

645
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: He's dodge in New York City like you are. Though.

646
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: Now he's got his studio down in Florida. He's a

647
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: he's a Floridian now, Pam in Anchorage, Alaska. Oh yeah,

648
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: this We got a lot of reactions to this.

649
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Speaker 6: I bet okay, Clay. I watched your video when you

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Speaker 6: were showing us your rooftop pool with a view of

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Speaker 6: your ground level pull and now all I can picture

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Speaker 6: as you just sunning naked, you know, on your rooftop

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Speaker 6: and then meandering down to your ground level naked. Just

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Speaker 6: it's too late for me. Everyone runs, save yourself.

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Speaker 1: Look what we have.

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Speaker 3: We got audience members picturing you naked, buddy. That's here's

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Speaker 3: the deal. I did not say that I'm like a

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Speaker 3: male stripper or something. I said that we don't have

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Speaker 3: window shades or treatments or whatever the hell these things

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Speaker 3: are called in the master bedroom yet and there is

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Speaker 3: a builder or cross the way. And so my wife

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Speaker 3: will regularly like, I take a shower and then I

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Speaker 3: just go get underwear, go get dressed, and I don't

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Speaker 3: really worry about like if the construction guys are looking

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Speaker 3: at me, because I'm a guy, Like what do I care?

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Speaker 3: And my wife is always like, oh my god, you

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Speaker 3: can't walk, you can't do this. And my argument is

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Speaker 3: women think about nudity very different than men because the

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Speaker 3: women's body is pursued.

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Speaker 1: People try to see it naked. Nobody wants to see

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Speaker 1: me naked.

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Speaker 4: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: If you want to look, you can look. Sorry, construction guys,

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Speaker 1: it's sorry, Pam