Speaker 1: What's that at the foot of my bed.
Speaker 2: It's spooky. I'm yooky.
Speaker 1: I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming, it's way Wait
Speaker 1: a minute, Hey, I'm ghosted Hiram's dress. Hey boo, it's
Speaker 1: me Roz. Oh my god, you guys. Today is major
Speaker 1: in ghosted history. I am joined by Greg and Dana Newkirk.
Speaker 1: I have had so many requests to have them on.
Speaker 1: I have wanted to have them on for a minute now.
Speaker 1: It has not worked out until now. It is so
Speaker 1: worth the wait. You might know them because they have
Speaker 1: a series called hell Here, which you can actually watch
Speaker 1: right now on Amazon. It's streaming, and it is so wild.
Speaker 1: It's about I mean, it's kind of about goblins, It's
Speaker 1: about so many things paranormal and not just in a
Speaker 1: ghost way. These people do it all, honey, They do
Speaker 1: the Bigfoot, haunted dolls. I mean, we get into a
Speaker 1: lot of it on this episode. But it's a two
Speaker 1: part conversation. So the second part, which will be out
Speaker 1: next week, we'll talk more about Hellier and a couple
Speaker 1: other things. But on today's episode, who You're gonna hear
Speaker 1: one of the scariest haunted object stories. I think I've
Speaker 1: ever heard, at least firsthand from people that have experienced it.
Speaker 1: It is good and they are legit, and so I
Speaker 1: believe every word they say. They are a real life
Speaker 1: paranormal power couple. It's a fun way. That's a fun
Speaker 1: thing to a paranormal power couple. The two of them
Speaker 1: dedicate their life to the paranormal. They're based in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: They are constantly popping up on different TV shows. We
Speaker 1: talk about that too. So before we get into that conversation,
Speaker 1: first of all, COVID is completely out of my system
Speaker 1: as far as I know. I mean, I keep testing negatives.
Speaker 1: So thank you everyone to check in on me. I'm fine,
Speaker 1: don't worry. I Am back to normal, back to talking
Speaker 1: about weird, freaky, deeky stuff. Oh something else I should
Speaker 1: tell you about with Greg and Dana Newkirk. They have
Speaker 1: a paranormal conference that is online and it is called
Speaker 1: Phenomena con and I am going to be speaking at it.
Speaker 1: I've never done something like that. I've never spoken at
Speaker 1: it paranormal conference, and we'll talk about it in the
Speaker 1: second part next So I just wanted to give you
Speaker 1: a heads up before then. I will be there doing
Speaker 1: a speech that you can watch from your home. It
Speaker 1: will be on the Sunday, which is the twenty seventh,
Speaker 1: at six pm Pacific time, but it will also be
Speaker 1: up for a little bit after that, I think, like
Speaker 1: a day or two. I can't remember exactly, but you
Speaker 1: can check it all out. It's on their Patreon, which
Speaker 1: is patreon dot com slash Para Museum, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to be talking about finding the humor in the paranormal
Speaker 1: and finding the fun in it, which of course is
Speaker 1: so important to me. I'll probably also be doing just
Speaker 1: lots of goofy paranormal comedy, probably things that you've heard,
Speaker 1: probably things you haven't heard as well, kind of similar
Speaker 1: to like my last live show in La I did
Speaker 1: a lot of different kind of stand up comedy about
Speaker 1: the paranormal. I'm sure some of that will be in
Speaker 1: there too. I'm not sure. I don't know. I know
Speaker 1: it'll be fun and funny and paranormal related. So I
Speaker 1: would love to see you there and to support them,
Speaker 1: and they do such a cool thing. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: also like Amy Brunei, Adam Barry, like lots and lots
Speaker 1: of different paranormal enthusiasts and professionals will be speaking as well,
Speaker 1: so check that out. In today's conversation, we start off
Speaker 1: by talking about curses. And it's been a minute since
Speaker 1: I've looked into curses. I think early on in the
Speaker 1: pandemic it no longer is out there, but maybe if
Speaker 1: you were listening at the time, I was doing like
Speaker 1: daily little episodes on this main feed of the podcast,
Speaker 1: and I think I did an entire week about curses,
Speaker 1: and I was looking into different famous curses, like the
Speaker 1: James Dean Carr was one of them. I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: with curses and anything paranormal, people can say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not real, it's just it's just coincidence or whatever.
Speaker 1: Everybody has their theories. But there are certain people, places,
Speaker 1: and things that have bad luck. It seems, I mean,
Speaker 1: bad things happen around certain things. And in today's episode
Speaker 1: it's briefly mentioned the Hope Diamond, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: look into the Hope Diamond. I've heard about it a
Speaker 1: few times. I've seen it on TV shows. Actually not
Speaker 1: to name drop, but one time, very casually, I was
Speaker 1: at an event a number of years ago and I
Speaker 1: met Leslie Jordan, who I love and I don't even
Speaker 1: know how it came up. I think maybe probably it's
Speaker 1: probably because you know, I usually when I leave the
Speaker 1: house have giant diamonds on. Maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1: But he started telling me about the Hope Diamond. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It just came up in conversation and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know about this, and so I
Speaker 1: was just doing some research and let's look into the
Speaker 1: Hope diamond real quick, shall we. It is a beautiful
Speaker 1: blue diamond that weighs over forty five carrots. It is
Speaker 1: about the size of a walnut, and it is estimated
Speaker 1: to be worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Now
Speaker 1: I'm looking on this MSN dot com article from December
Speaker 1: called the Curse of the Hope Diamond, and it says
Speaker 1: here that the diamond was made approximately one billion years ago.
Speaker 1: It was originally mined from the Kohler mine in Telangana, India. Telangana,
Speaker 1: I think I said it right. So the story is
Speaker 1: that a Hindu priest stole it from a temple in
Speaker 1: India because he thought it was just so beautiful it
Speaker 1: should be somewhere else. This is allegedly the story that
Speaker 1: I read on the internet. Now it seems it's unclear how,
Speaker 1: but it ended up in the hands of Jean Baptiste Tavernier,
Speaker 1: who lived from sixteen o five to sixteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: Apparently he came down with a fever soon after he
Speaker 1: got the possession of the diamond, and he decided to
Speaker 1: sell the diamond to King Louis the fourteenth. Apparently all
Speaker 1: of his kids, King Louis the fourteenth died except for one,
Speaker 1: and he died of gang green and it was a
Speaker 1: very painful death. So then it was passed on to
Speaker 1: Louis the Beloved, but it says nothing really happened to him. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe it skips a generation or something. Louis the sixteenth,
Speaker 1: so he gave it to Marie Antoinette to where and
Speaker 1: then you know that didn't end up well. They were
Speaker 1: both executed and it says that the Hope Diamond was
Speaker 1: stolen from the Royal storage house. Now, somehow it ends
Speaker 1: up in the possession of George the fourth in England,
Speaker 1: and he had a bunch of debt and he ended
Speaker 1: up dying a sad death of internal bleeding. So then
Speaker 1: a man named Thomas Hope, who was a wealthy banker
Speaker 1: and gem collector. He bought the diamond in an auction,
Speaker 1: and he and his brother Henry both died shortly after
Speaker 1: they bought the diamond. So that was Thomas Hope. That's
Speaker 1: how it got the name the Hope Diamond, I guess.
Speaker 1: So that family had the diamond through most of the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. In nineteen oh two, it went up for
Speaker 1: auction and it was handed off to a lot of
Speaker 1: different people. There was a sultan, Sultan Abdul Hamid, the
Speaker 1: second of the Ottoman Empire. While he had it, the
Speaker 1: entire empire crumbled beneath him. He ended up being the
Speaker 1: last Sultan of the Ottoman Empire and died in captivity.
Speaker 1: Then mister Cartier himself got his hands on it. He
Speaker 1: reset it and sent it to a fashionable and rich
Speaker 1: American family named the mcleans. Eveline Walsh McLean. She wore
Speaker 1: it every single day. She even let her dog wear it.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine. Apparently once she had it, her mother
Speaker 1: in law passed away, and then her nine year old
Speaker 1: son died in a car accident. Oh my god. Her
Speaker 1: husband left her for another woman and then was admitted
Speaker 1: to a mental hospital and died in the hospital.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, this woman had it bad. She lost her daughter
Speaker 1: at the age of twenty five, and their family owned
Speaker 1: the Washington Post, which went bankrupt. So then she dies.
Speaker 1: They auction off the diamond to help pay for their
Speaker 1: debts for the Washington Post, and Harry Winston buys the
Speaker 1: diamond where he would put it on display at exhibition
Speaker 1: so that it wouldn't do any real damage. So then
Speaker 1: he donated it in nineteen fifty eight to the Smithsonian.
Speaker 1: So it says overall fourteen people have died while in
Speaker 1: possession of the stone. So I don't know. Could that
Speaker 1: be a cursed object? It's possible. Here's what I know.
Speaker 1: If a man bought me the Hope Diamond as a gift,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure will happen at some point, they'll be like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just like you buy it from the Smithsonian
Speaker 1: for you. Raz I would probably say, no, I don't
Speaker 1: think I would want that in my home. But you
Speaker 1: know who's a great, great team of people to talk
Speaker 1: to about curses, Greg and Dana Newkirk. So we're going
Speaker 1: to get into that right now. And as always, if
Speaker 1: you want to hear a little bit extra, go to
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash ros DRez Fales. We are talking
Speaker 1: a little bit more about Bigfoot. We talk about it
Speaker 1: on today's episode, but there's also a little bit more
Speaker 1: on Patreon. This week we talk about the Patterson Gimlin
Speaker 1: tape and uh, it's cool, It's all cool, all right.
Speaker 1: Here is my part one conversation with Greg and Dana
Speaker 1: Newkirk on with the show. Oh my god, you guys,
Speaker 1: I have on today two giants in the paranormal field
Speaker 1: that have been requested on the show since honestly like
Speaker 1: the beginning of this podcast, and we have got it
Speaker 1: happening today, and I am so excited to welcome to
Speaker 1: the show, Greg and Dana Newkirk.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, We're psyched to be here.
Speaker 1: You guys, you don't even understand people. I think, like
Speaker 1: when Hellier came out, especially, so many people are like,
Speaker 1: you gotta watch this. Of course I watched it, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've just gotten really really I've really fallen
Speaker 1: in love with you guys watching all of your stuff.
Speaker 1: I just like, there's so much to talk about. There's
Speaker 1: just like too much to talk about. So I'm just
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know what, We're just gonna let
Speaker 1: the conversation go where it goes, because I couldn't I
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly try to stuff everything that you guys do
Speaker 1: into like one conversation.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, we'll just we'll just have to come back
Speaker 2: for round two at some point.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we got a call back. Guys, you're
Speaker 1: gonna come back. So how are you? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Holy cow? Yeah, you're so busy for some reason, Like
Speaker 2: everything cool is happening this month's Then we just had
Speaker 2: History Channel at the house yesterday recording something about curses,
Speaker 2: so that was kind of fun and stressful and tiring.
Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, you know, we've we've got phenomenaon coming up.
Speaker 2: We're working on movies and new documentaries and yeah, we
Speaker 2: basically had two years of doing nothing and now everything'shitting
Speaker 2: out exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, I have so much respect for what you
Speaker 1: guys do, because in the paranormal world, there's no blueprint
Speaker 1: for how you know what your career will look like
Speaker 1: or whatever. But it just seems like you guys you
Speaker 1: also must be hustlers, you know, like always on the go,
Speaker 1: like always trying to think of something new or whatever.
Speaker 1: Because you guys stay busy.
Speaker 3: I think it's a weird thing. I think. I don't
Speaker 3: know if we're capable of relaxing. I don't know if
Speaker 3: we're capable of doing that. We're just kind of like
Speaker 3: it's partially also because we get to do what we
Speaker 3: love doing. So it's it's just coming out all the
Speaker 3: time in different creative projects. So yeah, definitely, we we
Speaker 3: aren't great at relaxing and we're kind of work all
Speaker 3: but we're we kind of.
Speaker 2: Also love being plaining about being busy. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: So what were you talking? I mean, I'm sure you
Speaker 1: probably can't. We shouldn't say what you were doing on
Speaker 1: the History Channel. We want to watch it when it
Speaker 1: comes it.
Speaker 2: Who cares?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's already done. They can't take it back.
Speaker 2: Now. We were we were shooting an episode of William
Speaker 2: Shatner's Unexplained and the Love That Show. Well, we're gonna
Speaker 2: be on it as long as as long as it
Speaker 2: turned out.
Speaker 1: Okay, but explained with no E no, yes, yeah, trade
Speaker 1: that's what's unexplained.
Speaker 2: Well, it's easier to trademark if there's no you can
Speaker 2: you can own that, own that made up word.
Speaker 1: You know that's true. Okay, So you're talking about curses.
Speaker 1: This is something I want to I want to talk
Speaker 1: about curses because this is part of the exciting thing
Speaker 1: about you guys is that you guys do a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff in the paranormal dot I don't. I haven't
Speaker 1: really gotten into much Like I haven't talked about curses.
Speaker 1: I haven't talked about goblins that like a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff we haven't gotten to at this point after three
Speaker 1: years of this podcast. But Okay, so curses, what's going
Speaker 1: on with that? You guys believe in curses?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: What? Well? Yeah, I think I think we have. Our
Speaker 2: beliefs on curses are probably a little bit different than
Speaker 2: than mainstreams, but it's it's basically about exploring the idea
Speaker 2: of what a curse is, how something gets a reputation,
Speaker 2: is being cursed, how do you break a curse? Things
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think like the thing that Greg and I,
Speaker 3: you know, we kind of talk about a lot, and
Speaker 3: it usually most kind of paranormal roads, specifically when we're
Speaker 3: talking about maybe the objects in the museum or how
Speaker 3: we kind of go about investigating the paranormal, we always
Speaker 3: end up really kind of focusing on conversations around intention
Speaker 3: and what it how intent, how powerful intention is, and
Speaker 3: uh so kind of subverting this idea of like curses
Speaker 3: and looking at it from the perspective of intention. So
Speaker 3: when you know, when you're when you think something bad
Speaker 3: about someone and and you're kind of sending that energy
Speaker 3: to them or you, you know, you go as far
Speaker 3: as maybe making something that you can focus that negativity on.
Speaker 3: That was sort of the focus of where we were
Speaker 3: sort of leaning when we were talking about intention.
Speaker 2: Or you send bad vibes to yourself or to yourself exactly.
Speaker 2: We curse ourselves more than anything else, and those are
Speaker 2: the hardest ones to break.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a general way to break a curse
Speaker 1: if somebody has put a curse on you or is
Speaker 1: it just different from curse to curse.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it depends. You know, Danta's answer might
Speaker 2: be a little different, but I think it depends on
Speaker 2: how much power you've already given that curse and how
Speaker 2: much how much power other people have. When you think
Speaker 2: about things that are famous curses, like the Hope Diamond
Speaker 2: is a great example of it. You typically think about
Speaker 2: things that people have consistently for for you know, decad aid,
Speaker 2: if not centuries, loaded with ideas of what a curse
Speaker 2: is and what this thing has done to them and
Speaker 2: how it's affected them, and and it's like planting a seed, right,
Speaker 2: and so when that seed is planted that there's a curse,
Speaker 2: it only grows if you water it, and sometimes they
Speaker 2: turn into these massive redwood trees that are very hard
Speaker 2: to chop down. So we're all about conflict resolution and
Speaker 2: the idea that if you can kind of step back
Speaker 2: and look at something and dissect why this thing is cursed,
Speaker 2: where did this originate? What you know culturally, society, societally,
Speaker 2: you know, even personally, how how do you relate to
Speaker 2: this idea of a curse. If you can sort of
Speaker 2: dissect that, you can dismantle it, you can make it
Speaker 2: go away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's kind of a really rooted in belief, right.
Speaker 3: So if you believe in a curse, if you believe
Speaker 3: that you've been cursed, you are. And so it's it's
Speaker 3: sort of like reminding people that that that belief is
Speaker 3: sort of the seed for that curse to grow from.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it requires a little bit more than, you know,
Speaker 2: just positive thoughts. Sometimes to anchor that idea in your head,
Speaker 2: you have to do a ritual. That ritual helps you
Speaker 2: get into that mental headspace where the physical act of
Speaker 2: unbinding something, pulling the nails out of something, from exactly
Speaker 2: separating yourself cutting a chord. Physically cutting a chord, it
Speaker 2: works symbolically in your own subconscious to sever your connection
Speaker 2: to that curse.
Speaker 1: Do you guys know about a took the the movie
Speaker 1: script that they say is cursed?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I believe I do. Or you're you talking
Speaker 2: about a scriptor are you talking about that? There was
Speaker 2: like an actual short film that's like black and white.
Speaker 2: It's real creepy.
Speaker 1: Oh there's that too. Now this is this movie script
Speaker 1: that it's supposed to be this comedy I want to
Speaker 1: say seventies or eighties. It was written and they say
Speaker 1: that it's cursed because every actor that got offered the
Speaker 1: lead role died. And it's like John Candy, Chris Farley,
Speaker 1: it's like all these and allegedly that it is fact
Speaker 1: that those people were offered those roles, and now who
Speaker 1: knows if it's a coincidence. I don't know, but it's
Speaker 1: like I don't know. But so it's it's been shelved
Speaker 1: for a number of years because nobody wants to take
Speaker 1: the script.
Speaker 2: Let's make it. Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's find that script. We'll just do a fan film
Speaker 2: and we'll see the facts.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Oh you know a big star that
Speaker 1: I know. You guys worked Okay, so you're working with
Speaker 1: all the stars. William Shatner, Jeff Goldblow, Yes, okay. Is
Speaker 1: he just like a gift from the gods or what?
Speaker 1: He's the best?
Speaker 2: Probably pretty sure.
Speaker 3: He's not human. He's like the most magical creature on
Speaker 3: the face of the planet. And he's like one of
Speaker 3: those people that you you're almost afraid to meet because
Speaker 3: you're like, please, don't like ruin this for me. I
Speaker 3: just want to believe that you are like a magical
Speaker 3: god and he is like he is literally everything and
Speaker 3: and just like the loveliest human being on the planet,
Speaker 3: like so kind people, so humble and just pure magic.
Speaker 2: Just constantly flirting with every every everyone, everything, everything he.
Speaker 3: Comes in there.
Speaker 2: Just he's just very You are under his spells.
Speaker 3: You get pulled into his orbit very easily.
Speaker 1: I've I know a lot of people that now him
Speaker 1: or I've just I've heard so many stories that he's
Speaker 1: just like he's that he's just so nice. Nobody has
Speaker 1: a bad thing to say. He's just great. He's back.
Speaker 1: So you guys were on his show, well according to
Speaker 1: Jeff Goldbloom on Discovery Plus, and you guys went bigfoot
Speaker 1: hunting with him.
Speaker 2: What did.
Speaker 3: We? Uh?
Speaker 2: We apparently got recommended and he picked us out of
Speaker 2: a group of bigfoot hunters and we had to have
Speaker 2: a conversation with the crew because it's a national geographic show,
Speaker 2: so it's I mean, it's like Emmy nominated, and we
Speaker 2: had to tell them like, listen, we're not those kind
Speaker 2: of bigfoot hunters. Yeah, you know, we're not going to
Speaker 2: be able to like pick up a piece of scat
Speaker 2: and tell you what it came from.
Speaker 1: We can't let go.
Speaker 3: Those tracks are from this type of like where we
Speaker 3: don't have those cool krypt zoology hats.
Speaker 2: Or like, no, you've got to have a silly hat
Speaker 2: to be a cryptozologist.
Speaker 3: We were like, we have really, really weird ideas about
Speaker 3: what bigfoot is, like even weirder than just the normal
Speaker 3: traditional bigfoot is a undiscovered primate ideas.
Speaker 2: So we're very upfront with them and they were like,
Speaker 2: oh no, no, that's why Jeff wants to he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to hang out with normal Bigfoot hunters. He wants
Speaker 2: to hang out with people who think Bigfoot's an egg
Speaker 2: rigor a thought form roaming around the forest. And it
Speaker 2: was great. They kept us away from him on purpose
Speaker 2: until it was time to meet him, and they just
Speaker 2: stuck us in the redwoods. This it's the same forest
Speaker 2: that they used for Endoor in Star Wars and Jurassic
Speaker 2: Park two, which he was in. Oh God, And we're
Speaker 2: just sitting there by this big fallen redwood tree, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, we see this impeccably dressed
Speaker 2: man in this like so well manicured, well manicured. He's
Speaker 2: got like Italian leather boots on in the forest. He's
Speaker 2: got this like crazy long trench coat, this beautiful black
Speaker 2: trench coat. And he comes around the corner and he
Speaker 2: looks at us and he just like puts his fingers
Speaker 2: to his temple and he goes the new Kirk. And
Speaker 2: I looked at Dana and I was like, I cannot
Speaker 2: believe this is We might as well have been beating Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unbelievably legendary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we tortured him for a couple a couple
Speaker 2: of days telling him all kinds of crazy stories and
Speaker 2: making him smell this like bigfoot pheromone. That's the most
Speaker 2: disgusting thing I've ever smelled in my life.
Speaker 1: And where does somebody get their hands on bigfoot pheromones?
Speaker 2: There's a like an actual lab, like a scientific lab
Speaker 2: out of Minnesota who they created their own pheromone chip
Speaker 2: that looks very much like the same kind that hunters
Speaker 2: would use for deer hunting. And it's this little orange
Speaker 2: chip that has combined like great ape pheromones and human
Speaker 2: pheromones because they believe that it will attract bigfoot. It's
Speaker 2: the closest they can get. And my god, does it
Speaker 2: smell like it smells like a really musty, horrific locker room.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but does it work? Does it? Does it get
Speaker 1: the bigfoot?
Speaker 3: We tried, we like, we tried an honest experiment with
Speaker 3: uh with the chips, and the only thing that happened
Speaker 3: is we we left one in a tree and we
Speaker 3: put a trail camera next to it in the middle
Speaker 3: of the woods, and we got a lot of deer. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: no no bigfoot, though.
Speaker 2: I will say that one when we did that, we
Speaker 2: had a bunch of our followers dare us to put
Speaker 2: one in our mouths. So I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: if we raise some money for charity, If you guys
Speaker 2: will help me raise one thousand dollars for charity, I'll
Speaker 2: put it in my mouth. And they raised like seven grand.
Speaker 1: In your mouth?
Speaker 2: No God, no one. I could barely keep it in
Speaker 2: my mouth, like for a minute. And the craziest thing was,
Speaker 2: for a solid week, all of the dogs in the
Speaker 2: neighborhood were freaking out trying to warn the entire neighborhood
Speaker 2: that there's a giant monkey man monster running around Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: screaming and howling. And this is the worst part. I
Speaker 2: have not quite smelled the same since I put that
Speaker 2: thing in my mouth. No very hair in weird places,
Speaker 2: very musky. So I may have permanently damaged my DNA.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you might be turning into a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I guess there's worse things that could happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go out in those woods, they might
Speaker 1: try to make out with you or something.
Speaker 2: Hey, if that's how we have to get the evidence,
Speaker 2: got to do it. You gotta be the bait.
Speaker 1: Well, I like the idea of there being some kind
Speaker 1: of magic behind it and it being the manifestation of
Speaker 1: someone's you know, magic practices. Oh yeah, yeah, I've heard
Speaker 1: you guys talk a little bit about I mean, is
Speaker 1: that is that your leading theory at this point or
Speaker 1: what do you think?
Speaker 2: Well, listen, the you know, cryptosologists hate it like real
Speaker 2: serious ones hate it. When like we took the Finding
Speaker 2: Bigfoot team out for like two weeks in Mount Shasta.
Speaker 2: Their their production crew brought us in as an alternate
Speaker 2: team to investigate all the cases they wouldn't touch because
Speaker 2: they're very like, you know, Bigfoot is a flesh and
Speaker 2: blood creature. It's just really good at hiding and to us.
Speaker 1: Really good like fifty years befo.
Speaker 2: Sure for us though, it's it seems like a ghost.
Speaker 2: You see the same exact things with the ghosts. So
Speaker 2: there's no you know, there's no physical bodies. Ever, there's
Speaker 2: no there's no conclusive hair. They find hair all the time,
Speaker 2: but it always comes back from the lab like no,
Speaker 2: this isn't this is human hair. There's no conclusive hair,
Speaker 2: you know, and yet it leaves footprints, and yet tons
Speaker 2: of people see it. So many people see it that
Speaker 2: it would have to be one of the most well
Speaker 2: organized hoaxes in the world. So there's something going on there,
Speaker 2: and to me, it seems like a ghost. I remember
Speaker 2: having a conversation with Bobo. I'm pretty sure it's in
Speaker 2: the episode where he's like, you know, they're they're attacking deer,
Speaker 2: they're leaving footprints. He's like, ghosts don't do that, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, you say that because you didn't
Speaker 2: grow up in the paranormal community. One of the oldest
Speaker 2: tricks in the book is to put baby powder down
Speaker 2: on the ground and then have the footprints show up.
Speaker 2: You know, there's all stories about like little kid's handprints
Speaker 2: on windows, things like that. We just don't think twice
Speaker 2: about them because they look like ours. But if it's
Speaker 2: the ghost of something that maybe used to exist, or
Speaker 2: something that has been willed in to existence by hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of people meditating on the Patterson Gimblin footage
Speaker 2: or whatever their idea of an ideal bigfoot, looks like, well,
Speaker 2: sure that explains all of the issues that we have
Speaker 2: with capturing any evidence of it or finding a physical body.
Speaker 3: So I think that really interesting thing. And you know,
Speaker 3: it's obviously kind of where our interests lies. When you
Speaker 3: look at a lot of a majority of kind of
Speaker 3: bigfoot cases or Bigfoot investigations, you're really seeing in most
Speaker 3: cases the ones that aren't paranormal. But there are so
Speaker 3: many of them. There are so many cases of big
Speaker 3: foot sightings where you have you know, green flashes of
Speaker 3: light that follow the experience or feelings of hallucination or
Speaker 3: being hypnotized or seeing something there that's not there, or
Speaker 3: missing time, and they're so obviously connected to a lot
Speaker 3: of paranormal experiences like those. You know, one of the
Speaker 3: things that we experience that sticks out in my mind
Speaker 3: when we were filming that Finding big Foot episode is
Speaker 3: we are we we got to a location that we
Speaker 3: were going to be looking and investigating, and right as
Speaker 3: we went out into the field, like a ton of
Speaker 3: people's tech went down, so all their batteries were getting drained.
Speaker 3: They're like, and they were they were sort of confused,
Speaker 3: but it seemed like it was something that was pretty
Speaker 3: common for the for the crew, and you know, they
Speaker 3: they were just sort of like, oh, it happens, you know,
Speaker 3: occasionally happens. But Greg and I having a background you know,
Speaker 3: in the ghost space a little bit more, we know
Speaker 3: that happens a lot when when paranormal investigators go into
Speaker 3: places and their batteries get drained and and it's very likely,
Speaker 3: you know, a strange occurrence versus like just kind of
Speaker 3: coming into like a bunch of bad batteries or something
Speaker 3: like that. So the one thing that we really kind
Speaker 3: of discovered because of that experience was that that crossover
Speaker 3: that exists sort of in all of these spaces, whether
Speaker 3: it's eufology or ghost hunting or cryptozology, there's so much
Speaker 3: crossover that gets overlooked because, you know, the cryptozoology community
Speaker 3: tend to be those flesh and blood minded people, or
Speaker 3: they're looking for undiscovered discovered primates or animals, but yet
Speaker 3: they're having very very strange paranormal experiences, and those cases
Speaker 3: tend to get kind of tossed out because it's not
Speaker 3: really of interest to them.
Speaker 2: More, more of these people should be dipping their toes
Speaker 2: into things that they maybe aren't terribly interested in, like
Speaker 2: bigfoot hunters should be talking to ghost hunters, and ghost
Speaker 2: hunters should be talking to ufologists, and if they all
Speaker 2: kind of dip their toes and we're a little more diversified,
Speaker 2: they would see that there is a massive amount of
Speaker 2: crossover and they're all missing information that can help them
Speaker 2: all put together their individual puzzles.
Speaker 1: It's also way more fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, of course.
Speaker 1: God, well, we covered Bigfoot nights top. Can we talk
Speaker 1: about the museum and the haunted objects and stuff?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Tell everybody about your museum.
Speaker 2: Dana and I run the world's only mobile museum of
Speaker 2: the Unexplained, and it contains everything from artifacts from some
Speaker 2: of the most famous hauntings in history. We have alleged
Speaker 2: crashed UFO parts from famous UFO crashes. We've got items
Speaker 2: relating to the history of psychic testing. We even have
Speaker 2: movie props, you know, like we have Fox Mulder's flashlight
Speaker 2: and Dana Scully's gun, things relating to the pop culture
Speaker 2: of the paranormal. And we do have a few pretty
Speaker 2: wild haunted artifacts in there that we've experienced some really
Speaker 2: strange activity with. And we take these things across the
Speaker 2: country all over and people have lots of really weird
Speaker 2: experiences in the museum.
Speaker 1: So where's all the stuff right now?
Speaker 2: Right next to us, we're sitting in our kind of
Speaker 2: I'll have to send you a picture. We're sitting in
Speaker 2: our new studio and we set it up for the
Speaker 2: History Channel shoot the other day kind of busted out
Speaker 2: all the greatest hits and so they're all staring at
Speaker 2: us as we talk.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, So how do you how do you
Speaker 1: just live with that? I mean, I know you guys
Speaker 1: aren't like, uh uh, you know, scared traditionally or whatever
Speaker 1: the way that that a normal person that doesn't have
Speaker 1: experience with this stuff would be. But like, is that
Speaker 1: a nuisance at ever?
Speaker 3: It's It has absolutely been at certain points, I think
Speaker 3: at this this point, having so many different weird things,
Speaker 3: and you know, a lot of them being relatively active objects,
Speaker 3: we've kind of learned how to sort of I think
Speaker 3: we think about it in terms of like their roommates
Speaker 3: to a degree, like we just sort of we have
Speaker 3: we respect one another's space, and.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you get one that's kind of allowed. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: doesn't pay the rent on time, and you know you
Speaker 2: have to the conflict resolution, right, But yeah.
Speaker 3: It's the interesting thing I think about what we do
Speaker 3: is when people so a majority of the objects in
Speaker 3: the museum are donated. People send things to our po box.
Speaker 3: They see us at events and bring us things, and
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that we do is
Speaker 3: we always ask people to if they're going to donate
Speaker 3: something to the museum, give us a handwritten note, something
Speaker 3: that kind of details their experience with the object, any history,
Speaker 3: anything that they can give us, because we sort of
Speaker 3: think about it as the jumping off points. So when
Speaker 3: someone gives something to us, it's sort of like our
Speaker 3: investigation begins, and we really want to do as much
Speaker 3: as we possibly can to understand the history of the object,
Speaker 3: the folklore around the object, the activity that people have
Speaker 3: experienced with it. Because one of the things that we've
Speaker 3: learned throughout the years being kind of caretakers for these
Speaker 3: weird things, is that more often than not, when you
Speaker 3: get something that is kind of frightening and people have
Speaker 3: had frightening experiences around it, it's likely there's something going
Speaker 3: on there, and so we are kind of always thinking
Speaker 3: about it from the ethics of if there's an intelligence
Speaker 3: attached to an object, or an aspect of an intelligence
Speaker 3: that's attached to an object, it's kind of our responsibility
Speaker 3: to a degree.
Speaker 2: To help it.
Speaker 3: If there's something there that requires assistance or help, then
Speaker 3: then that's kind of what we want to do. And
Speaker 3: so I think just having that mindset going into dealing
Speaker 3: with some of the scarier things actually does create a
Speaker 3: bit of a nice like boundary where we're you know,
Speaker 3: we we recognize that what we're doing is kind of
Speaker 3: weird and different, but hopefully again there's that conflict resolution.
Speaker 3: Hopefully we can figure out why and if there's something
Speaker 3: that we can do to help the experience, to help
Speaker 3: the intelligence, and that's what we'll do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting after talking about curses, because you know,
Speaker 1: some of course there's cursed objects and that kind of
Speaker 1: a thing. So I imagine that you probably take that
Speaker 1: same logic of intention and everything with that. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you believe that there's objects that are you know,
Speaker 1: truly evil and can really mess somebody up?
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, if we ascribe intelligence to
Speaker 2: items or places, or spirits or ghosts, whatever, if we
Speaker 2: ascribe intelligence to them, we have to give them the
Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt. We have to say, you know,
Speaker 2: every human has the capacity to be ultimate good or
Speaker 2: ultimate evil. They make that choice, and a lot of
Speaker 2: the times that choice is defined by the experiences that
Speaker 2: they've gone through, their surroundings and you know, their own
Speaker 2: just their own thought processes. So we always try to
Speaker 2: look at things from a very neutral perspective if we
Speaker 2: can so, even something that shows up. Here's a perfect example.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a little story about one of the objects.
Speaker 2: It was the only thing we've ever had to return,
Speaker 2: and it was an item that was sent to us
Speaker 2: by a couple hikers who found it in a cave
Speaker 2: in the Catskill Mountains. They were way off the beaten path,
Speaker 2: and they find this little outcropping in it is this
Speaker 2: effigy that looks like a carving of a woman fairly old,
Speaker 2: and there are nails driven into the eyes and a
Speaker 2: noose around the neck. And looking at it like if
Speaker 2: you know any like even have the most fleeting pop
Speaker 2: culture reference for what a curse looks like. You look
Speaker 2: at that and go, that's not nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, oh cute.
Speaker 2: Exactly. One of the guys decided to take it home,
Speaker 2: and almost immediately what you imagine happens in that situation
Speaker 2: begins to occur. Wet footprints began to manifest, They begin
Speaker 2: to smell this terrible stench of standing water, like pond water.
Speaker 3: Their animals were acting really strange, just kind of a
Speaker 3: slew of bizarre things start happening in and around their house.
Speaker 2: And the last straw was when they came home, the
Speaker 2: statue is not where they left it, and they see
Speaker 2: what looks like an old crone, a naked woman standing
Speaker 2: in the corner of their house, scraggly hair, dripping wet,
Speaker 2: and their dog is freaking out. And at that point
Speaker 2: they said, we can't have this thing anymore. They ended
Speaker 2: up contacting us.
Speaker 1: So you guys are like, oh, we'll take it.
Speaker 2: Well, No, I mean again, I'm very much about there's
Speaker 2: this weird thing in the paranormal realm where there's people
Speaker 2: who want to tell you like I'm the only one
Speaker 2: who can solve your problem. My God can solve your problem,
Speaker 2: my belief system can solve your problem, my expertise can
Speaker 2: solve your problem, YadA YadA, like you got to all
Speaker 2: us in. We don't have that approach very much about
Speaker 2: self empowerment. I want to give other people the tools
Speaker 2: to solve their own problems because it's way more effective
Speaker 2: that way. And I did the same thing. I said, listen,
Speaker 2: just take it back to where you found it, put
Speaker 2: it back in the cave. Apologize. I know it's going
Speaker 2: to feel weird. Just apologize out loud, back out of
Speaker 2: the cave and just mean it, and that very likely
Speaker 2: will fix the issue. They were too scared. They didn't
Speaker 2: want to meet whoever put it there. They were afraid
Speaker 2: they couldn't find the cave again. They didn't want to
Speaker 2: be in the woods carrying this thing around, and so
Speaker 2: they said, listen, can we just send it to you?
Speaker 2: Can you deal with it. I'm fine with that. We're
Speaker 2: happy to do it. But ninety nine percent of the
Speaker 2: stuff people send us, I can willingly admit we never
Speaker 2: experienced anything with I believe that other people are experiencing
Speaker 2: phenomena around it, because I think that the paranormal is
Speaker 2: a very personal and subjective thing. But this item was
Speaker 2: a little different. It shows up and we do what
Speaker 2: we always do. We take photos of it all the
Speaker 2: way around and we just go about our day. We
Speaker 2: log it, we put it in the collection, and then
Speaker 2: that's that. Later that night, I am watching TV where
Speaker 2: we're in the living room, and I hear a crash
Speaker 2: in the office, and Dana and I were like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's probably the cats. You know, they're fighting. So I
Speaker 2: was like, I'll go break it up. So I get
Speaker 2: up to go to the office, which is on the
Speaker 2: other side of the old apartment, and I noticed that
Speaker 2: the office door is closed. It's like, well, that's kind
Speaker 2: of weird. So I look around the corner and I
Speaker 2: look in the bedroom. I don't see the cats. Turns
Speaker 2: out they're hiding under our bed. They're absolutely terrified. Anyone
Speaker 2: who has animals, no, they're usually an early warning sign
Speaker 2: that something strange is going on. So I walk back
Speaker 2: over to the office. I open the door. I don't
Speaker 2: see anything amiss until I feel something underneath my feet.
Speaker 2: I have almost stepped on Jesus who has been ripped
Speaker 2: off of a crucifix hanging on the wall. I look
Speaker 2: up at the crucifix, which only hung there by a
Speaker 2: single nail, so something had to have literally snapped it off.
Speaker 2: Two of the nails were missing, there was one still there,
Speaker 2: and it just had a single arm swinging on it.
Speaker 2: I look down and the crone is right underneath of it.
Speaker 2: At that point we both said, okay, this is something
Speaker 2: to pay attention to. We put a trail cam up.
Speaker 2: We wait a couple of days. I think it took
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks before it finally went off, and
Speaker 2: one night it goes off. There's three images on it.
Speaker 2: When we look at them the next day, there's lots
Speaker 2: of light anomalies in there, but nothing that would ever
Speaker 2: convince a skeptic. And Dana goes, well, that light looks
Speaker 2: like it's moving around. What if you, like, you know,
Speaker 2: flip through real fast. Let's stitch them together and you know,
Speaker 2: see if we get an idea of where that light
Speaker 2: comes from and where it goes. What we ended up
Speaker 2: noticing is the statue itself moves on its own very slightly.
Speaker 2: It just moves takes just a little bit of a turn.
Speaker 2: After that, we start spelling the pond water. One day,
Speaker 2: Dana calls me into the living room and she says,
Speaker 2: were you just standing on the couch?
Speaker 3: There were It was so weird there and again like there,
Speaker 3: you know, we photographed everything, documented everything. There were two
Speaker 3: perfectly wet human footprints standing on the back of the couch,
Speaker 3: so as if someone got up onto the part of
Speaker 3: the couch that you lean against and stood there just
Speaker 3: facing over your shoulders. Yeah, like by your shoulder, your shoulder,
Speaker 3: just perfect feet, yeah, just wet, a set of perfectly
Speaker 3: wet feet.
Speaker 2: It was an ikea couch don't worry about okay it
Speaker 2: but like you know, the.
Speaker 3: The first thing that I thought of, like in my
Speaker 3: logical brain is trying to function when all this weird
Speaker 3: thing stuff is happening. And the only thing that I
Speaker 3: could think of was like it, you know, just above
Speaker 3: it are sort of above it was a ceiling fan,
Speaker 3: and I thought, like, did Greg get out of the
Speaker 3: shower and change a light bulb or like as you do,
Speaker 3: like I couldn't, but like you can see the heel,
Speaker 3: you can see toes and like just in the weirdest
Speaker 3: spot imaginable, just sitting there standing there on top of
Speaker 3: the back of the couch.
Speaker 1: I feel like at that point, that's when you have
Speaker 1: to get that like old granny like plastic cover for
Speaker 1: a couch, just to ensure that that doesn't ever happen again,
Speaker 1: maybe like something the slip. But okay, okay, I'm on
Speaker 1: the edge of my seat. Okay.
Speaker 2: After that, we're in bed one night. Well, well I'll
Speaker 2: let you tell this part because you're the one who
Speaker 2: experienced it.
Speaker 3: It so I'm not a light sleeper. I'm pretty it
Speaker 3: wants I'm asleep. I'm asleep. And this was shortly afterwards
Speaker 3: waking up in the middle of the night to see
Speaker 3: what looked like and the best way describe it as like,
Speaker 3: it's so it was like seeing a living nightmare. Like
Speaker 3: I saw what looked like a tall shadow, probably six
Speaker 3: feet tall, if not a little bit more than that,
Speaker 3: standing in the right in the doorway of my closet,
Speaker 3: just standing there and move and kind of moving a
Speaker 3: little bit, like enough that like, again, your logical brain
Speaker 3: kicks in in moments like that where I want to
Speaker 3: explain it away. So I was like, is it am I? Like,
Speaker 3: did I hang up a jacket there? And I'm just
Speaker 3: seeing the shape of it, But it was like moving
Speaker 3: enough that I could tell that it wasn't just a
Speaker 3: piece of clothing, and it was just like literally just
Speaker 3: standing there and moving, like moving ever so slightly in
Speaker 3: the creepiest way possible.
Speaker 2: After that, I said, well, it's time to have the talk.
Speaker 2: And we don't normally do this. It feels very silly,
Speaker 2: it's silly to even describe, but we, uh, we took
Speaker 2: the statue, we set it in the living room table
Speaker 2: and we just sat down and started talking and listen,
Speaker 2: we want to share our space with you. But let's
Speaker 2: set some ground rules. You know, we don't want to
Speaker 2: be scared. We want to help. We want to do things.
Speaker 2: If there's something you need, like figure out a way
Speaker 2: to let us know what you need, we'll do what
Speaker 2: we need to do to fix it. And as we're
Speaker 2: having this discussion, we hear the sound of rushing water
Speaker 2: from the other side of the apartment. Any idea of
Speaker 2: the paranormal left my brain because in our previous apartment
Speaker 2: we had gone through a burst pipe from the second
Speaker 2: floor and anyone who's gone through it knows it's horrific.
Speaker 2: It's terrible. So I jump up and we both run
Speaker 2: to the other end of the apartment. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: figure out how well where's this water coming from? How
Speaker 2: can we turn it off? But there's nothing there. And
Speaker 2: as we're standing there trying to figure out where this
Speaker 2: noise is coming from, we hear these thuds in the
Speaker 2: living room, just like doom doom, doom, doo dun. And
Speaker 2: we walk back into the living room and the crone
Speaker 2: is gone. We start looking all over the place and
Speaker 2: I see that it has rolled off of the table
Speaker 2: and under the television stand. So I go over. I
Speaker 2: get down on my hands and knees and I reach
Speaker 2: under the television stand and I hear data shriek because
Speaker 2: the TV has started to slowly tip and was going
Speaker 2: to smash on my head.
Speaker 1: Oh oh my god.
Speaker 2: If Dana hadn't run over and grabbed it, it would
Speaker 2: have got me.
Speaker 3: Uh. So I said, this is also all happening in
Speaker 3: like relatively short time span, Like this isn't this is
Speaker 3: like I've talked about this a lot, but like at
Speaker 3: this point, I'm feeling wildly out of control, Like this
Speaker 3: is like this experience.
Speaker 1: Is it's a lot.
Speaker 3: Like we were both really really overwhelmed by what was happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just chaos, just yeah, one after the other after
Speaker 1: the other.
Speaker 2: Uh, We're not like, we're not like ring of salt people.
Speaker 2: We're not like put it in a chest and lock
Speaker 2: it away or burn it or bury it type people.
Speaker 2: That's not what we're about again, conflict resolution. But I
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, if this is how it's going
Speaker 2: to be, I'm going to have to do something I
Speaker 2: don't want to do, and I'm just going to have
Speaker 2: to put you in a box and put you away
Speaker 2: until we can figure out what to do with you.
Speaker 2: And as I'm saying that we heard three loud bangs
Speaker 2: on the wall, and I said, okay, I'm going to
Speaker 2: take that as a confirmation. So we put it in
Speaker 2: a box, put a lock on it, and we just
Speaker 2: kind of stuck it on the bottom shelf in the
Speaker 2: office and tried not to think about it. But we
Speaker 2: have a traveling museum. We travel across the country with
Speaker 2: this stuff, and one of the ways that we learn
Speaker 2: things is from meeting people who are smarter or more
Speaker 2: specialized than we are. Doing these events is a perfect
Speaker 2: way to do that. We've solved so many mysteries that way.
Speaker 2: So we decide, let's take this thing out. We just
Speaker 2: won't let people hold it. There's very few items in
Speaker 2: the museum that we feel that way about. But because
Speaker 2: we didn't fully understand it, we kept it on the
Speaker 2: note touching list.
Speaker 1: How did you travel with that?
Speaker 2: Oh, in the it's in a box. It's just in
Speaker 2: the box with the lock on it, and then it
Speaker 2: travels separately from the other stuff. In a chat. We
Speaker 2: have all kinds of like chests in a big tent
Speaker 2: that we set up, and it looks like you were
Speaker 2: in a Victorian parlor when you walk in and everything
Speaker 2: just kind of has its own box and its own
Speaker 2: special space. Most of them don't need to be kept
Speaker 2: away from each other, but sometimes one of them can
Speaker 2: be a bad influence. So this one we just because
Speaker 2: we didn't know anything about it, we kept it locked up,
Speaker 2: We kept it separate. But as we started to take
Speaker 2: this thing out to events, we would meet people who
Speaker 2: would say, well, this is a dense wood. My family
Speaker 2: owns a lumber company. This would is clearly from a
Speaker 2: swampy area, which is interesting. We're able to meet people
Speaker 2: who kind of have ideas about where they think this
Speaker 2: has originated. But the other thing we started to notice
Speaker 2: is that people who got near it would feel their
Speaker 2: eyes burned, they'd feel their throats close up. There were
Speaker 2: people who came in and kind of made fun of
Speaker 2: the idea that something could be cursed or haunted, and
Speaker 2: then came back the following day because the tire in
Speaker 2: their truck had blown out and pushed them across the
Speaker 2: median and flipped over and almost got hitten by a
Speaker 2: semi trailer, and they blamed it on the chrone. Lots
Speaker 2: of that type of stuff. The last straw happened at
Speaker 2: an event in Michigan. One of the bigger paranormal events,
Speaker 2: and we're at the end of this like convention hall. Uh,
Speaker 2: and there had been a guy that had come from
Speaker 2: Canada and he really wanted to see the chrone. We're
Speaker 2: pretty particular about some of the stuff that we bring out,
Speaker 2: depends on the crowd. If they're like one of the
Speaker 2: crowds where people want to fight ghosts, we don't pull
Speaker 2: all some of that stuff out, you know, the type
Speaker 2: I think, And this kind of felt that way. The
Speaker 2: vibe didn't feel right. But this guy kept asking and
Speaker 2: asking and asking, and so I, you know, looked at
Speaker 2: Dana and I said, well, maybe just for a second.
Speaker 2: So we unlocked the box and I pull it out
Speaker 2: of the pillowcase, and almost immediately there's this force that
Speaker 2: just it's hard to explain. It's just this feeling. This
Speaker 2: energy just shoots down the convention hall. Papers are coming
Speaker 2: off of people's desk, the lights are flickering, some of
Speaker 2: them start to swing. People are looking all over. There's
Speaker 2: like a the woman across from us had a bunch
Speaker 2: of books she was selling, and her bottle of soda,
Speaker 2: you know, pops and falls over and destroys hundreds of
Speaker 2: dollars worth of books. People are like freaking out, genuinely
Speaker 2: freaking out. And then we see it. At the end
Speaker 2: of the hall. There's a guy whose head has flung
Speaker 2: back in the air and he's bleeding out of his
Speaker 2: mouth and he has this horrible seizure and has to
Speaker 2: be taken out by paramedics. What as this.
Speaker 3: Happens, This is also happening in front of like a convention.
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people. The guy who begged us to see
Speaker 2: it starts to cry and says, I'm so sorry, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry. Put it back, put it back, put it back.
Speaker 2: And that's when Dana and I said, this thing has
Speaker 2: to go back to where it came from. We cannot
Speaker 2: travel with this thing anymore.
Speaker 3: And you know, it's also at that point likely that
Speaker 3: it's not even an object that's safe for us to
Speaker 3: have in our collection, but also like there's something big
Speaker 3: going on here, so that's we need to definitely bring
Speaker 3: this back to its place of origin.
Speaker 2: So long story short, we make a plan to return
Speaker 2: it to the mountain. We know the relative area it
Speaker 2: was from, don't know exactly where the cave is, but figure,
Speaker 2: as long as we can get back to this place
Speaker 2: we can do an unbinding ritual and we can whatever
Speaker 2: it is that is causing all of this. Let's remove
Speaker 2: the sources of the negativity. Let's remove the nails, let's
Speaker 2: remove the noose. Dana can bless it and we can
Speaker 2: take it back to where it came from. And Dana
Speaker 2: has sort of an online coven of sorts and teaches
Speaker 2: a lot of classes about witchcraft and sympathetic magic and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. So she recruits like a hundred or
Speaker 2: so witches from around the world to help us with
Speaker 2: this coordinated ritual. We end up hiking miles up into
Speaker 2: the mountains off the beaten path to this particular location,
Speaker 2: and then once the sun goes down, Dana cass a
Speaker 2: circle and almost immediately something keeps trying to get in,
Speaker 2: and it sounds like it's wearing like big boots and
Speaker 2: it's just stumping around the circle that we can't leave
Speaker 2: until the ritual is complete.
Speaker 3: So one of the idea of the circle is, if
Speaker 3: you want to think about it kind of energetically, it's
Speaker 3: the idea that we're creating a boundary sort of a gateway,
Speaker 3: a boundary point, and as we're doing our ritual, we're
Speaker 3: working with an intention, and that intention is like, as
Speaker 3: Greg mentioned, a non binding. So the way that I
Speaker 3: like to practice magic is by utilizing sacred circles because
Speaker 3: it lets us kind of build energy without it dissipating.
Speaker 3: So we could have done the same ritual without having
Speaker 3: a circle. But then we're building all of this energy
Speaker 3: and we're we're focusing on our attentions and there's really
Speaker 3: nothing energy energetically there to kind of contain it so
Speaker 3: that we can channel in focus it. So it was
Speaker 3: as if that boundary line that we had created, that
Speaker 3: that sacred circle that we had created, was sort of
Speaker 3: this point where we were having these strange things kind
Speaker 3: of come up to the edge of it and almost
Speaker 3: test hit Like we we could hear physically hear the
Speaker 3: sound of what sounded like a very large person like
Speaker 3: you mentioned in really heavy boots stomping all the way
Speaker 3: around our circle. And we're standing there in the middle
Speaker 3: of the woods, you know, miles and miles away from
Speaker 3: everybody else, looking at exactly where we're hearing the sound from.
Speaker 3: There's nothing there, there's no it wasn't a person, it
Speaker 3: wasn't an animal, and it consistently kept happening throughout the
Speaker 3: course of the night as we were doing our ritual,
Speaker 3: as if something was either interested in what we were
Speaker 3: doing and kind of drawn to that area, or it
Speaker 3: was something that that just couldn't get within that space.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I forgot. One of the elements of
Speaker 2: the ritual was because we are a museum, and because
Speaker 2: it's important for us to preserve these stories and to
Speaker 2: continue talking about them and try and figure out the
Speaker 2: true nature of these things, we wanted to have some
Speaker 2: kind of a relic of this to continue touring with,
Speaker 2: to continue showing people, to continue telling the story. So
Speaker 2: we recruited our friend Tyler, who's a special effects makeup artist,
Speaker 2: to do something that no special effects makeup artists in
Speaker 2: their right mind would ever do, to cast a museum
Speaker 2: quality mold of this thing in the freezing weather on
Speaker 2: the top of a mountain in a tent and no
Speaker 2: other Again, I can't stress like you'd need to have
Speaker 2: a specific temperature for the mold to set up. Like
Speaker 2: all the stuff.
Speaker 3: We had to bring a generator or like a heater
Speaker 3: with us, appropriate heater with us.
Speaker 2: And the hundreds of pounds of molding agent, the tent.
Speaker 3: The separate tent alone had to be like a perfect
Speaker 3: environment for this molding.
Speaker 2: Like seventy degrees.
Speaker 3: And we were doing this at the end of October,
Speaker 3: so it's absolutely freezing outside by the time the sunsets,
Speaker 3: and we're just sort of like hoping that we can
Speaker 3: keep this tent as hot as humanly possible because it
Speaker 3: needs to be like relatively warm for this this molding agent.
Speaker 3: To actually even.
Speaker 1: Say, I have had that done to my face before
Speaker 1: and it's one of the worst experiences ever. That would
Speaker 1: definitely piss off any.
Speaker 2: We well, we tried. We had this this short lived
Speaker 2: project where we were trying to three D scan haunted objects,
Speaker 2: which went about as well as you can imagine, and
Speaker 2: we tried to do the chrone, but we had to
Speaker 2: do that in a hotel because the guy who was
Speaker 2: our three D modeler, he had made a joke about
Speaker 2: the crone. He said like, oh, the crone can have
Speaker 2: my baby as a sacrifice, like, you know, tasteless joke,
Speaker 2: but it very you know, it was funny at the time.
Speaker 2: And then later that night he calls us frantically, like
Speaker 2: skypes us frantically and shows us that his front door
Speaker 2: was open and there were wet footprints that went through
Speaker 2: his house up the stairs, and there was a puddle
Speaker 2: of water in front of his crime his kid's crib. Fortunately,
Speaker 2: his kid was with his mother in law that night,
Speaker 2: and so he refused, like, we're not doing this at
Speaker 2: my house. We're not doing this at my house. So
Speaker 2: we had to get a hotel room. And then when
Speaker 2: he went to modify the file, because we liked to
Speaker 2: print these to see how they turned out. In order
Speaker 2: to print it, he had to digitally remove the noose
Speaker 2: and the nails, and to do that he had to
Speaker 2: separate the head from the body. As soon as he
Speaker 2: separated the head from the body in the file, in
Speaker 2: the file, these fingers came out of the neck and
Speaker 2: there are images of these where you can see these
Speaker 2: twisted fingers that are not connected properly, but you can
Speaker 2: see like fingernail fingernail ridges on them and everything like
Speaker 2: something is trying to crawl out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And so we this was our last ditch effort, was
Speaker 2: to do like an actual museum quality mold on the mountain.
Speaker 2: So we had to still do that even in ritual space.
Speaker 2: It's a very weird thing to watch Dana consecrate pliers,
Speaker 2: like really mundane tools that we needed for the ritual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anything that we were using that night was part
Speaker 3: of that ritual. So we were having to kind of
Speaker 3: cleanse and purify, like Greg said, pliers and really really
Speaker 3: mundane things, but it was all kind of part of
Speaker 3: this larger ritual that took place throughout the course of an.
Speaker 2: So we pulled all the nails out. They were I mean,
Speaker 2: it took the entire weight of my body to do it.
Speaker 2: It's unnatural the way that they were in there, pulled
Speaker 2: all the nails out, you know, Dana consecrated it. We
Speaker 2: we ended up we took the noose off. As soon
Speaker 2: as that noose came off, there was like a pop
Speaker 2: of electricity in the air, and we all just started
Speaker 2: to cry because we knew that it was gone, like
Speaker 2: the thing that was in front of us was just
Speaker 2: a piece of wood. At that same time, all the
Speaker 2: coyotes on the mountains started to howl, which we had
Speaker 2: not heard at all.
Speaker 3: And then we had a pack of coyotes just just
Speaker 3: like screaming into the night.
Speaker 2: And so we all just kind of sat there and
Speaker 2: had a real good cry and milk molded put the
Speaker 2: crone in the mold. It was so cold we were
Speaker 2: unsure if it was going to set up. But in
Speaker 2: the morning we buried her and said a few words
Speaker 2: I had. Essentially it was a funeral and uh, never
Speaker 2: had a problem since. So that's uh some some of
Speaker 2: the lengths we've had to go. You guys fixed problems.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like an incredible movie story.
Speaker 2: Funny you should say that we have a feature length
Speaker 2: documentary that I think is finally picture locked. And it
Speaker 2: was a really weird one to do because it it
Speaker 2: started off as like a little half hour featurette that
Speaker 2: we were doing just for our museum members and our
Speaker 2: friend Carl who directed it. He's he's who directed and
Speaker 2: edited Hellier.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He said, guys, this is too good. So we ended
Speaker 2: up expanding it into a feature length film that's made
Speaker 2: up of all the all the footage that we had, recordings,
Speaker 2: live streams that we've had with it.
Speaker 3: Pretty obsessive documenter, so we really document as much of
Speaker 3: most of the experiences that we weird experiences that we
Speaker 3: have as possible. So the whole thing was documented, our
Speaker 3: entire all the iPhone footage from the ritual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, I can't wait to see this.
Speaker 2: It's so good and we're pretty sure we figured out
Speaker 2: what the crow was ford and why what was done
Speaker 2: to it was done to it, but we're keeping that
Speaker 2: secret for the time.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's like that was literally my next question.
Speaker 1: But okay, okay, no, that's great.
Speaker 2: We're hoping later this year it'll be available. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll see fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: Going back to the beginning of the story, there's you know,
Speaker 1: everybody has their theories and whatever, but people people will
Speaker 1: say that if you have a cursed object or a
Speaker 1: haunted object, you can't give it to someone. It's attached
Speaker 1: to you, whatever the thing is. So I mean, did
Speaker 1: you talk to the guy that found it after it
Speaker 1: had it all stopped for him?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: No, he completely disappeared. The way that we even he
Speaker 2: just disappeared, well, so the way that we even it's
Speaker 2: kind of convoluted how we even got involved. We okay,
Speaker 2: so we talked about the Finding Bigfoot episode that we'd shot.
Speaker 2: We spent two weeks with the crew driving around the
Speaker 2: mountains of California telling them all kinds of crazy stories
Speaker 2: about the haunted objects and cases we've investigated, and hang
Speaker 2: out with alien abductees like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And one of the crew members was reading the paranormal
Speaker 2: subreddit over on Reddit, and one of the guys had
Speaker 2: posted there about finding this thing and experiencing all this
Speaker 2: stuff and not knowing what to do. So this guy,
Speaker 2: who is a production assistant literally on another shoot, just
Speaker 2: sitting there killing time in a van, you know, production
Speaker 2: hurry up and wait, he's just killing time, sees this
Speaker 2: remembers all the stories we were telling him and says, hey,
Speaker 2: you should get in touch with Greg and Dana Newkirk.
Speaker 2: They deal with things like this and they might be
Speaker 2: a help you. So that is how we ended up
Speaker 2: talking to this guy, was literally through Reddit on a
Speaker 2: Reddit throwaway count and then after he sends it, wanted
Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. And I periodically have checked
Speaker 2: and I've tried to reach out, especially as we were
Speaker 2: working on the documentary, but there's there's never any response,
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I mean, the thing is like,
Speaker 2: this is the craziest thing about stories like this is
Speaker 2: this could very well have been a hoax. It could
Speaker 2: be an art project, it could be an actual haunted,
Speaker 2: cursed object. That doesn't matter. When you start to think
Speaker 2: about the idea of like Eggrigor's and thought forms and
Speaker 2: the idea of intention, because that's how a curse starts.
Speaker 2: Enough people believe in it. And then this big part
Speaker 2: of the reason why we felt like we had to
Speaker 2: go to the mountain, why we had to sever our
Speaker 2: own connection to this, because once we started experiencing stuff,
Speaker 2: we're telling other people's stories about this, they start to
Speaker 2: experience stuff. So we have a hand in propagating this story,
Speaker 2: this curse, and by us going up. Whether you're a
Speaker 2: skeptic or a believer, and that even you know, that's
Speaker 2: even for us. I try to be very agnostic. I
Speaker 2: try to live in one world and another at the
Speaker 2: same time. But the physical act of going up the mountain,
Speaker 2: pulling those nails out, pulling that noos off, severing our
Speaker 2: own connection to it, and then like finalizing this this
Speaker 2: tail whatever this is putting an end cap on. It
Speaker 2: also does that for other people and effectively breaks that spell.
Speaker 2: And so it works on a psychological level, it works
Speaker 2: on a paranormal level. However you need to look at it.
Speaker 2: It's putting an end to that story and thus putting
Speaker 2: an end to that activity.
Speaker 1: Got you, guys, really like break stigma or something around
Speaker 1: so much of this stuff because I mean, most people
Speaker 1: myself included, would be like, nope, I'm out of here,
Speaker 1: Like would I would never, I wouldn't go out in
Speaker 1: the woods no matter what. But the fact that you
Speaker 1: guys do do and live to tell the tale, I
Speaker 1: think it really does take away some of that power
Speaker 1: of these things being so you know, scary, and.
Speaker 2: I hope so I think we get I think for
Speaker 2: very obvious reasons. And I don't fault people for this.
Speaker 2: I think we get compared to people like Edd Larin
Speaker 2: Warren a lot, but we try to be the anti
Speaker 2: Eden Larrain Warren because don't I didn't like the way
Speaker 2: that they Again, if you believe that these things have
Speaker 2: an intelligence to them, you really have a responsibility to
Speaker 2: treat them that way. If somebody, if you've got a
Speaker 2: friend who's in a bad mood, you try and figure
Speaker 2: out what it is. You don't lock them in a
Speaker 2: box and put them in a ring of salt and
Speaker 2: then like every once in a while, come rattle the
Speaker 2: cage so they do a trick, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's the wrong way to deal with this stuff. If
Speaker 2: you're an intelligent, compassionate human being, and so I hope
Speaker 2: that by us telling these stories, I hope by us
Speaker 2: sharing these experiences and sharing the way that we deal
Speaker 2: with them, and sharing the way that we try to
Speaker 2: give other people self empowerment in their own scary situations
Speaker 2: with paranormal phenomena, they maybe choose curiosity instead of choosing fear.
Speaker 2: Because the whole thing is like, if you can learn
Speaker 2: to not be afraid of the monster under your bed,
Speaker 2: if you can make friends with the monster under your bed,
Speaker 2: you can make friends with the guy down the street
Speaker 2: who has a different spiritual belief than you, or or
Speaker 2: is it you know has a different view on gender
Speaker 2: or sexuality or whatever. It Just be kind to everything,
Speaker 2: give everything the benefit of the doubt, and that makes
Speaker 2: the world a better place.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautiful. Thank you, Greg and Dana Nwkirk. Don't
Speaker 1: you worry, baby. We got more next week with part two,
Speaker 1: so make sure you're subscribed to the show. Also, you
Speaker 1: can hear a little bit extra of us talking about
Speaker 1: Bigfoot Moore on patreon dot com slash rosdres Falaise. Hey,
Speaker 1: please rate the show five stars if you like it
Speaker 1: and tell your friends about it. Don't forget go to
Speaker 1: Phenomena Con. You can see me. I will be there.
Speaker 1: It's all the last weekend of February and I will
Speaker 1: be there on the twenty seventh. That is a Sunday.
Speaker 1: You can stream it from home. Patreon dot com. Slash
Speaker 1: Para Museum is where you can get those tickets. We'll
Speaker 1: be talking about that more next week. Join our Facebook
Speaker 1: group called ghosted by rosdres Fales. Send me your ghost stories.
Speaker 1: You could do it at ghosted by Ros at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com or in a five star review on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram at rozhernandez TikTok and Twitter at it's
Speaker 1: raz Heernandez. I love you all, both living and dead.
Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't
Speaker 1: haunt me. Gaybye. Star Bands are a podcast a podcast
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