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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Amidst all of the drama and the news be it

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Speaker 2: false or true, swirling around Brian Coburger now charging the

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Speaker 2: murders of four beautiful Idaho students. The big question right

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Speaker 2: now is will the state seek the death penalty? This

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Speaker 2: as more and more evidence seemingly bubbling up about prior

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Speaker 2: bad acts by Brian Coburger. Where it is whether it

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Speaker 2: is going into a colleague's home and rearranging her possessions

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Speaker 2: in order to get her to allow him to install Wi.

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Speaker 3: Fi security cams.

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Speaker 2: Or possibly taking a neighbor's underwear out of a suitcase,

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Speaker 2: is stuffing it in the door for car. The families

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Speaker 2: of the victims are reacting, But right now will the

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Speaker 2: state announce they are seeking the death penalty? I mean, see, Grace,

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Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 2: here at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. First

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Speaker 2: of all, take a listen to former homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy.

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Speaker 4: I think this one is pretty clear. My guess is

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Speaker 4: he's seeking the death penalty. Now behind the scenes, what's happening,

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Speaker 4: and she's probably meeting with the defense and saying, show

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Speaker 4: me what you got to try to talk me out

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Speaker 4: of it. Prosecute under these circumstances will wear they aggravating

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Speaker 4: versus mitigating circumstances, And this case is so overwhelmingly awful,

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Speaker 4: for lack of a better term, I think there's going

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Speaker 4: to be a lot of pressure within the DA's office

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Speaker 4: to actually seek the death penalty on them.

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Speaker 3: With me an all star panel.

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Speaker 2: But first I want to go to a former chief

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Speaker 2: deputy prosecutor out of Idaho. This jurisdiction now with Building

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Speaker 2: Hope Today, a nonprofit to help teach new prosecutors how

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Speaker 2: to prosecute complex crimes. You can find Jean Fisher at

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Speaker 2: Building Hope todate dot org. Gene thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. You know, I was just listening to what

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Speaker 2: the former homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy said that the state

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Speaker 2: is going to the defense and saying, in his words,

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Speaker 2: show me what you've got taught me out of it?

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Speaker 2: In other words, do you have anything that is so

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Speaker 2: powerful it can make a jury return a not guilty

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Speaker 2: or hang? And if you do, I may take DP

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Speaker 2: off the table in exchange for a plea. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure that's happening, but could you explain that process. I mean,

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Speaker 2: when I handle death penalty cases, I basically had the

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Speaker 2: defense lawyer saying, don't do it, don't do it, don't

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Speaker 2: do it. But they never showed me any reason not

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Speaker 2: to do it because they didn't want to tip their

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Speaker 2: hand about what their defense would be.

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Speaker 5: Right, So I think, I mean, I agree with them

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Speaker 5: that there probably is this conversation going on. Remember he's

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Speaker 5: already been in jail since January, and if I had

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Speaker 5: a fair guest, I wouldn't be surprised to find out

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Speaker 5: that the defenses may have already had him somebody lined up,

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Speaker 5: a psychologist or somebody lined up to come and visit

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Speaker 5: with him and talk to him. They don't have to

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Speaker 5: turn that over to the state, but they can tell

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Speaker 5: you that they're going to do that now. On the

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Speaker 5: last big murder case that I had in Idaho, which

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Speaker 5: was also a home intruder who came in murdered two

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Speaker 5: elderly people in their bed, plus their fifty four year

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Speaker 5: old son. I mean, that's what we did in all

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Speaker 5: of this prep time leaning up to and pastor grand jury,

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Speaker 5: was asking the defense, do you have any mitigating information,

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Speaker 5: many gating facts that you really think we ought to

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Speaker 5: know that would stand in the way of the death penalty.

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Speaker 5: And you know, if you can, if you can figure

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Speaker 5: that out in advance, you know it certainly behooves everybody.

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Speaker 5: And it depends on the relationship that the prosecutor has

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Speaker 5: with the public defender in this case as well.

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Speaker 2: Really interesting that you said that, Jane Fisher, because there

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Speaker 2: are certain lawyers defense lawyers when I saw them come

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Speaker 2: and go oh no, here comes a big fat lie.

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Speaker 3: They're going to lie to my face and expect me

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Speaker 3: to plead down a case.

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Speaker 2: I've even had a defense attorney when his client didn't

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Speaker 2: show up for calendar call, got another person standing out

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Speaker 2: in the hall come in and pretend to be his

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Speaker 2: client so his client wouldn't go into bondforth for turning

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Speaker 2: to get arrested. Luckily I had the bookend picture and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, that's not him. So some lawyers have

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Speaker 2: a reputation that you cannot trust. Then there were other

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Speaker 2: lawyers that would come down the hall and go, oh, great,

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Speaker 2: here comes x y Z. I bet they've got something

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Speaker 2: to tell me, and they would almost every time, and

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Speaker 2: it would affect the plea negotiation or whether you went

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Speaker 2: to trial with the case or took a plete. You're

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Speaker 2: absolutely right. We wonder what's happening behind the scenes. And

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Speaker 2: with me a homicide prosecutor, former chief deputy prosecutor from Idaho,

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Speaker 2: Jane Fisher, what are the aggravating circumstances in the Coburger

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction on which the prosecutor could seek the death penalty.

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Speaker 5: Well, in this case, it's clearly that there's more than

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Speaker 5: one murder. There's more than deliberation, I mean, more than premeditation.

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Speaker 5: There's certainly you're looking at the malice of forethought and

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Speaker 5: the manner in which the murders took place. I mean

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Speaker 5: looking at those four factors alone, you know all four

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Speaker 5: of them you can tick off, and that you know,

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Speaker 5: from the states point of view, the death penalty. As

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Speaker 5: far as the aggravating factors, I think it's really pretty clear.

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Speaker 5: But I think it's also really hard because they're working

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Speaker 5: with four different families, and even though the families in

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Speaker 5: and of themselves do not get to make the decision,

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Speaker 5: you know, they're, in my experience, they're going to listen

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Speaker 5: to the families, and it would be hard if you know,

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Speaker 5: two said yes and two said no. I mean the

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Speaker 5: idea that death penalview is such a visceral reaction to

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Speaker 5: what we want to have happen. But remember, if they

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Speaker 5: do go for it, it also means that they're all

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Speaker 5: in it together for the next, you know, twenty thirty years,

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Speaker 5: because death penalty cases just never end.

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about when and if the state is going

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Speaker 2: to announce they're seeking the death penalty. And you heard

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Speaker 2: Gene Fisher, a former chief deputy prosecutor in Ada County

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Speaker 2: there in Idaho. You earlier heard homicide prosecutors speaking to

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Speaker 2: our friends at Amuse Nation. Across the country, there are

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Speaker 2: what is called aggravating circumstances. In other words, if any

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Speaker 2: one or more of those circumstances exist, the state may

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Speaker 2: seek the death penalty. The most obvious one, as Jean

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Speaker 2: Fisher pointed out, is more than one body mass murder,

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Speaker 2: and many jurisdictions is more than one body, and here

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Speaker 2: there are four. Another one in many jurisdictions is whether

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Speaker 2: the defendant was lying in wait. Why does that matter?

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Speaker 2: If someone is, for instance, sitting outside your house waiting

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Speaker 2: for the right moment to break in and murder you,

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Speaker 2: that signifies that there is the cold blood factor. In

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Speaker 2: other words, they're not angry. You didn't get in a

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Speaker 2: fight in a bar. It's not a sudden heat of

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Speaker 2: the moment killing. They had time to think about it.

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Speaker 2: They had cold blood. In other words, they could have

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Speaker 2: rationalized their way out of the murders, which makes them,

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Speaker 2: in the eyes of many, more heinous. And then, of

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Speaker 2: course there's always the catch all, especially heinous, especially awful circumstances.

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Speaker 3: All of those are met here.

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Speaker 2: If what the state has suggested is true. The family

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Speaker 2: that Jeane Fisher brought up, the families involved here, what

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Speaker 2: do they want?

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Speaker 3: Well, we know what one family wants.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Shannon Gray then Salves, family lawyer

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Speaker 2: speaking to our friends.

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Speaker 3: In these nation.

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Speaker 6: Like every family, I think they want justice for the

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Speaker 6: deaths of their daughter and Maddie and Zena and Ethan.

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Speaker 6: So you know, it's part of the process. You know,

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Speaker 6: the tour claims. Notice that I filed is just standard procedure.

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Speaker 6: You know, we hope that everything went perfectly and everything

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Speaker 6: did everybody did the right things. But if for some

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Speaker 6: reason something went wrong or something someone might need to

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Speaker 6: be held accountable for some you're mandating to follow those

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Speaker 6: notices the Gounzavis family obviously supports the death penalty in

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Speaker 6: this case.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 3: Joining me right now.

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Speaker 2: Is the breaking news investigative reporter for the Washington Examiner.

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Speaker 2: You can find her on Twitter at Rachel Underscore Shilkey.

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Speaker 2: Rachel Shilkey is joining us. Rachel, what are they talking about? Specifically?

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Speaker 2: You hear the Gunsalvas family lawyer speaking about filing a

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Speaker 2: tort action against the state.

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Speaker 3: What are they talking about?

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Speaker 7: So basically what they're doing is they're putting in their

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Speaker 7: request that if the prosecutors decided they wanted to seek

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Speaker 7: the death penalty, they are saying that we are all

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Speaker 7: for it, basically a layman term.

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Speaker 3: That's very odd.

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Speaker 2: Jane Fisher, former felony prosecutor and the Idaho jurisdiction, the

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Speaker 2: Coburger jurisdiction. Why would you file a tort action a

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Speaker 2: civil action against the state, i e. The prosecutors in

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Speaker 2: this case?

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Speaker 5: You know, I don't know when I read that. It

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Speaker 5: surprised me in it and I mean it made me

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Speaker 5: a little sad. Is that it just it presumes in

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Speaker 5: this day and age that maybe I suppose that they

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Speaker 5: think if somebody did something wrong. Somebody is going to

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Speaker 5: pay for it somehow.

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Speaker 2: Oh you mean, like if the prosecutor screws up or

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Speaker 2: one of the homicide well, watch out, Chris McDonald, cause

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Speaker 2: I'm coming to the university, yeah, or the University of

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Speaker 2: Idaho or the University of Idaho or Washington State University police.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'd have to limit themselves to Idaho't think

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Speaker 2: they've gone to WSU.

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Speaker 3: Or the homicide detective.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I told you one time I had a

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Speaker 2: homicide detective fail to write his name on the outside

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Speaker 2: of the blood we use for the DNA comparison, and

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Speaker 2: the chain of custody could have been attacked, possibly successfully,

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Speaker 2: and right before Charle I had have redone again, same results.

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Speaker 2: But still it's an error like that. Is that where

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Speaker 2: you're talking about Jane Fisher?

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Speaker 5: I really don't know. I haven't really either. I haven't

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Speaker 5: heard of them of a defense of a victim's family

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Speaker 5: filing a tour just in case.

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Speaker 3: Just in case somebody screwed up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of it before either, because a

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Speaker 2: gene when you go into court and you're prosecuting a case,

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Speaker 2: you're representing the victim and the people you're representing the state,

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Speaker 2: and I like to turn around and see the victim's

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Speaker 2: family on the front row. Now, there were cases where

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Speaker 2: they weren't. They didn't agree with me. Specifically, when an adult,

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Speaker 2: typically a male, was charged in murdering the mother, very

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Speaker 2: often the adult children refuse to believe it. They sit

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Speaker 2: over behind the father, they sit on the defense side,

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Speaker 2: And you know, you can't help that, and you've got

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Speaker 2: to go forward with what you believe is true. But

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Speaker 2: that's how does that strike you? I wonder if they're

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Speaker 2: concerned about any particular thing having gone wrong in the investigation.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if it clearly. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 5: know that it clearly says that. I just think it's

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Speaker 5: the state of where we are today in litigation, quite frankly,

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Speaker 5: and it makes me.

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Speaker 7: It does.

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Speaker 5: It's so frustrating because you do, as a prosecutor, want

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Speaker 5: to stand up and say we're going to do everything

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Speaker 5: that we can for justice, for the state and for

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Speaker 5: the family. Even though they file the tourd against us,

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Speaker 5: of which they're not naming us, but just in case

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Speaker 5: they are. It just feels it doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 3: You know, it sounds very well.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the parents believe they have reason to do this.

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Speaker 2: I know that many of them are angry about that

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Speaker 2: gag order and other things. Remember at the beginning, Rachel

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Speaker 2: show Key with me, breaking news reporter for Washington Examiner.

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Speaker 2: Remember at the beginning, the families were very upset. They

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Speaker 2: were not They were saying they were not getting information

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Speaker 2: from the homicide detectives, and maybe there was a reason

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Speaker 2: for that, but that's how they felt, and so I

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Speaker 2: believe their feelings were justified. Even if the homicide team

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Speaker 2: detectives had a reason, they should have explained that to

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Speaker 2: the family, this is why we can't tell you any

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Speaker 2: more information right now, and call them every day and

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Speaker 2: give them updates. But they were left right or wrong,

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Speaker 2: feeling like they were left out and were in the dark.

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Speaker 3: Remember that, Rachel, Yes, I.

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Speaker 7: Do, and I remember it being a very sad thing

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Speaker 7: to hear these families go on air and go into

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Speaker 7: these interviews talking about how they were didn't really have

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Speaker 7: any information, and even now they're still trying to fight

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Speaker 7: even to be able to talk about the case. So

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Speaker 7: it's just a really sad situation.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall is joining us guy. She is a

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Speaker 2: renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Heels at doctor

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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall dot com.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, doctor Bethany Well.

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Speaker 8: In terms of group psychology, we see this in medicine,

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Speaker 8: we see this in attitudes towards our police across the nation.

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Speaker 8: Is that the people who are trying to help us

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Speaker 8: are vilified and blamed if they don't do it perfectly.

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Speaker 8: That's just human nature. It's not whether it's from motherhood

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Speaker 8: or being a therapist, being a doctor, being a policeman.

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Speaker 8: Those of us who try to help others are very

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Speaker 8: familiar with being blamed and vilified if it doesn't go

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Speaker 8: exactly as the other person had planned. And I think

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Speaker 8: it's a mistake to play into this group psychology. Even

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Speaker 8: if you're an attorney, I don't understand the case like

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Speaker 8: the attorneys here do, and you do, Nancy, But I

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Speaker 8: think from age, just a social person, it's a mistake

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Speaker 8: to buy into this fact that whenever we don't get

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Speaker 8: exactly what we want from the people who are gathering

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Speaker 8: to help us, we're going to sue, We're going to blame,

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Speaker 8: We're going to attach blame to them. Because what happens

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Speaker 8: is that everybody who's trying to help them. They're going

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Speaker 8: to be scared now, They're not going to be able

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Speaker 8: to think freely and act freely. That the people who

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Speaker 8: are trying to help the family help the family in

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Speaker 8: whatever way they think best professionally, unless there's some egregious error.

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Speaker 2: Two special guests joining us, Chris mcdonna, director, and I

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Speaker 2: hear you, doctor Bethney. I'm going to use what you

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Speaker 2: just said with Chris mcdonna, director, Cold Case Foundation important

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Speaker 2: former homicide detective investigated only three hundred homicides. You can

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Speaker 2: find them on YouTube channel, the Interview Room, or a

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Speaker 2: Cold Casefoundation dot org. Chris, I mean I understand as

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Speaker 2: a crime victim myself, a tangential victim of homae side,

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Speaker 2: how the victims' families are feeling, or at least a

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Speaker 2: little bit how not totally because I cannot even imagine

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Speaker 2: losing your child. That said, I mean it puts the

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Speaker 2: homicide detectives and the prosecutors are like walking on pins

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Speaker 2: and needles, afraid for the other foot to drop, like

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Speaker 2: a long tail cat and a room full of rocking chairs,

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Speaker 2: Like what it's going to happen next? Everything they do

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Speaker 2: is being put under a microscope. But Frankly, why shouldn't

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Speaker 2: it be They should be doing their best. But I

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Speaker 2: imagine it does give them reason to pause.

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Speaker 9: And absolutely, Nancy, I mean here, this is a very

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Speaker 9: critical time in this case in my opinion, because you know,

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Speaker 9: more than anybody, you want to walk into that courtroom

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Speaker 9: and we've said this before, you know, hand in hand,

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Speaker 9: arm in arm with all four of those families, lock step, yeah, lockstep,

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Speaker 9: and what and you know what's going to happen. The

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Speaker 9: defense is going to in their opening statement, they're going

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Speaker 9: to lay out, Hey, even one of the families thinks

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Speaker 9: there's problems here, You're right, because there's you know, and

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Speaker 9: they're gonna they're going to leverage that against the family.

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Speaker 2: They could even call family members as witnesses. Yes, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to give them any ideas, but.

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Speaker 9: No, but you and I both know, and everybody on

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Speaker 9: the panel knows. You know, if I was Coberger's attorney,

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Speaker 9: that's gonna I'm going down that lane.

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Speaker 3: I'm running down that avenue.

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Speaker 9: Yep, yes, ma'am. And he and she's got a couple

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Speaker 9: of really smart former homicide guys you know, on the

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Speaker 9: defense side, for the you know, for for him, I.

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Speaker 3: Really explain that, explain that McDonough.

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Speaker 9: Well, she's got a couple of retired homicide guys out

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Speaker 9: of southern California who I knew years ago, out of Riverside,

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Speaker 9: lots of experience. They are, you know, very skilled at

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Speaker 9: solving crimes. And these are the guys who wrote the apphidavits,

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Speaker 9: in my opinion, to circumvent the gag order, you know,

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Speaker 9: to go after, you know, the two surviving witnesses to

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Speaker 9: kind of get the statement out front. And so that

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Speaker 9: was a smart move.

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Speaker 2: Cunning maybe cunning to you know, treat the surviving victims

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Speaker 2: that way.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that that would.

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Speaker 2: Be smart, but cunning absolutely much better word. Cunning, very cunning. Guys,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about is the state going to see the

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Speaker 2: death penalty? If so, when are they going to announce it? Guys,

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Speaker 2: if they do seek the penalty, let's address that. Take

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Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at Inside Edition.

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Speaker 4: Do you understand the charge of murders first sperience?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Do you understand the maximum capitude?

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Speaker 10: Yes?

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Speaker 3: But when he was asked to plead.

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Speaker 4: Mister Cover prepared to plead to these starts.

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Speaker 3: He declined to enter a plea. The court entered a

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Speaker 3: not guilty plea for him in stead a trial date

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Speaker 3: of October second.

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Speaker 2: Idaho is one of five states with death by firing squad.

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Speaker 2: You know, on a circle by Rachel Shilkey joining me,

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Speaker 2: breaking these Reporter Washington Examiner. It was not many days

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Speaker 2: behind us that Coburger stood up, and he had been

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Speaker 2: speaking clearly with the judge, and then suddenly Kat got

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Speaker 2: it's time, when it's time to announce.

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Speaker 3: It not guilty. He wouldn't say a thing.

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Speaker 2: The lawyer Antler said, he's choosing to stand silent. You

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Speaker 2: know what, I've analyzed this up and down every which way,

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Speaker 2: but loose. There was no benefit in that the court,

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Speaker 2: as the law demands terday, not guilty plea for him.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't help in bargaining. It's not some part of

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Speaker 2: a scheme or a plan. It's basically, he's a drama queen.

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Speaker 2: It's drama. That's all that was.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I would agree. I think there's definitely a dramatic

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Speaker 7: aspect to this case. It's captured so much national attention.

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Speaker 7: It's something I've been following for a long time, and

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Speaker 7: I was even thinking to myself, you know, I'm wondering

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Speaker 7: if you would just play guilty in bim the case

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Speaker 7: is over, like that would be the end of this

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Speaker 7: entire media circus that's been happening. I think that there

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Speaker 7: is some I would agree with you there's no benefit

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Speaker 7: to just standing silent, But I think it's definitely going

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Speaker 7: to fuel fire to this frenzy that's going to be

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Speaker 7: covering this case.

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Speaker 2: And you know, talking to Bethany, he has cable TV

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Speaker 2: behind bars and apparently watching every scentila of coverage on himself,

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Speaker 2: and he garnered a lot of attention by standing silent

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Speaker 2: and not entering a place.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's no legal strategy. It didn't help him or

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Speaker 2: hurt him in any way to do that. Accept garner attention.

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Speaker 8: Brian Kober loves to draw people into his web. That's

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Speaker 8: his mum, whether as a peeping tom, whether as killing people,

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Speaker 8: whether he's gathering underwear his trophies, He's always pulling people in.

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Speaker 8: And what better way to pull people in than to

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Speaker 8: stand silent and let other people guess. And now, of

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Speaker 8: course what are we doing. We're talking about him, We're

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Speaker 8: second guessing, we're wondering what it meant. So, you know,

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Speaker 8: I think what happens with these criminals. Is at a

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Speaker 8: certain point, the BS stops and they have to get

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Speaker 8: off the carnival ride and what they do to try

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Speaker 8: to excite and thrill others and to be at the

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Speaker 8: center of things doesn't work anymore. But right now I

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Speaker 8: think it's working in some moderate way because he stood silent.

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Speaker 8: And now we're talking about it again.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Now one theory is the reason he stood silent

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Speaker 2: is because if he ever does let's just say, this

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Speaker 2: goes all the way to a guilty verdict and then

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Speaker 2: we go into death penalty phase. It's a bifurcated trial.

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Speaker 2: Fancy word for two trials. You have the guilty innocence trial,

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Speaker 2: then you have the sentencing trial. He could say that

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Speaker 2: bifurcated sentencing trial. I never said I didn't do it.

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Speaker 2: I didn't deny it. I find that disingenuous because he

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Speaker 2: has had his lawyer say he wants to prove his innocence.

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Speaker 2: He can't wait to go to court to be exonerated.

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Speaker 2: That goes all the way back to the extradition hearing.

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Speaker 2: So maybe that's his game. I don't know, but it's

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Speaker 2: going to have little or no effect at all.

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Speaker 3: Now, if the state does.

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Speaker 2: See the death penalty, it is death by firing squad.

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Speaker 2: I'm very curious, Jean Fisher, is there an alternative in

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Speaker 2: Idaho or does it have to be death by the

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Speaker 2: bullet now?

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Speaker 5: Actually, in Idaho, the preferred method is still lethal injection

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Speaker 5: and then by by firing squad was passed by the

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Speaker 5: Idaho legislative this last year as an alternative means. But

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Speaker 5: because it's been so difficult to get the drugs that

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Speaker 5: we hear about all over the nation for the lethal injection,

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Speaker 5: they opted to go back to the death by the

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Speaker 5: firing squad.

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Speaker 2: So they've got death by firing squad and then needle

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Speaker 2: as a backup if they can get the drugs.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Duprey joining me forensic pathologists, medical examiner literally

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Speaker 2: wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She shot to

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Speaker 2: the national forefront during the Alex Murdock double murder trial.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Dupree, thank you for being with us as

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Speaker 2: we had this theoretical discussion about are we going to

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Speaker 2: get the death penalty announcement anytime soon?

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Speaker 3: And what is the mode of death?

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Speaker 2: Can we just have a little recap about what happened

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Speaker 2: to these four victims.

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Speaker 11: Yes, Nancy, these victims were horrifically murdered. They were stabbed

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Speaker 11: many times. There were sharp force injuries, There were defensive

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Speaker 11: wounds on some of the victims. They had enormous pain

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Speaker 11: and bleeding. This is a horrific crime, just horrific.

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Speaker 3: Explain their stab wounds, the stab wounds.

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Speaker 11: Again, the knife that allegedly was used is a knife

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Speaker 11: that is sturdy. It can inflict serious injury. Obviously, the

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Speaker 11: knife wounds, there were several on all of the victims.

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Speaker 11: They the wounds hit significant organs and veins and vessels

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Speaker 11: and arteries which caused extensive bleeding. The crime scene was

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Speaker 11: a horrific, bloody massacre. Really, it was just a horrific crime.

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Speaker 2: And we do know, or we believe we know that

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Speaker 2: the victims were either going to sleep or drowsy at

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Speaker 2: the time. But one of the survivors said they heard

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Speaker 2: I think there's someone in here words to that effect,

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Speaker 2: so they were awake.

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Speaker 3: They were not spared any suffering.

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Speaker 2: Some of the investigators stated, it's the worst thing they

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Speaker 2: have ever witnessed, the worst thing they've ever witnessed. What

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Speaker 2: about it, Chris McDonald, former homicide detective.

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Speaker 9: Well, when you get into that kind of environment like that,

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Speaker 9: immediately you were strong by the brutality of that attack.

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Speaker 9: And in this case, because you have four victims, that

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Speaker 9: brutality is magnified, you know, a thousand times, because you

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Speaker 9: have to calculate out, you know, what was the sequence

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Speaker 9: in relationship to which victim was chosen first, and then

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Speaker 9: of course you have to recognize that the same weapon

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Speaker 9: was utilized on the second, third, and fourth victims. So

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Speaker 9: you have to now say to yourself, what is the

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Speaker 9: raid that is driving from number victim one to victim

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Speaker 9: number four? And you start learning quickly that the perpetrator

438
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 9: who has the potential to do this. You look up

439
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 9: on the ceiling, Nancy, and you see what's called cast

440
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 9: off from each one of those strikes to these particular victims,

441
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 9: and you must say to yourself, and you think to yourself,

442
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 9: and I have vivid memories of going into those types

443
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 9: of scenes that stay with me to this day. And

444
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 9: I've always asked my shelf, how in the world could

445
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 9: this amount of brutality take place in a very small

446
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 9: environment and the suspect just walk out of that place

447
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 9: and think nothing of it. Because when you get them

448
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 9: in the room, in the interview room later on. Some

449
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 9: of these individuals think nothing of it, and Coburger, in

450
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 9: my opinion, is one of those individuals who is now

451
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 9: on a stage bigger than he's ever expected. But this

452
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 9: is what he did expect. He wanted to be front

453
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 9: and center to the world and he's getting it.

454
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 3: Guys.

455
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: If the state does decide to seek the death penalty,

456
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: which in Idaho is the firing squad or needle, when

457
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: will we find out? Take a listen to our forensic

458
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: crime online.

459
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 12: Prosecutors have sixty days from Coburger's plea to decide whether

460
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 12: they will seek the death penalty. So far, no decision

461
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 12: has been made. If the state does ask for the

462
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 12: death penalty, Coberger's attorneys would have to prepare a death defense,

463
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 12: and the state must find a jury that would be

464
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 12: able to oversee a death penalty case, which could possibly

465
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 12: push this trial further out than October second. Some are

466
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 12: also so questioning whether emotion could be filed to move

467
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 12: the trial to a different county. According to Idaho Criminal

468
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 12: Rule twenty one, a judge may only grant the change

469
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 12: of venue for a trial if an impartial trial cannot

470
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 12: be held in the same county or in the quote

471
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 12: interest of justice and convenience for.

472
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: The witnesses, sometimes similar transactions are allowed at trial. I

473
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: do not believe any prior bad acts are going to

474
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: come in in the Coburger trial in the case in chief.

475
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: Possibly if there's a conviction at the sentencing phase, we'll

476
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: find out about other cases, other instances, incidents that Coburger

477
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: committed that are similar to the Idaho murders in some way.

478
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: One thing that will not.

479
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: Be part of that is the case of a forty

480
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: five year old murdered mom out of his hometown in

481
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: the Poconos where his family lives, Dana Smithers. Take a

482
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: listen to Less Trent at Inside Edition.

483
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 10: A mysterious development in the case of Brian Coolberger, accused

484
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 10: of murdering those four University of Idaho students. There are

485
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 10: reports Brian Colberger's father, Michael, testified before grand jury at

486
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 10: this courthouse in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania today. His mother, Mary Anne

487
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 10: reportedly testified earlier this week. The grand jury is investigating

488
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 10: the death of Dana Smithers, a mother of three who

489
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 10: disappeared a year ago. Her body was found in a

490
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 10: wooded area near Stroudsburg in April, about thirty miles from

491
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 10: the Coburger home.

492
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: Many legal legals did not believe the two would be connected.

493
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: The ms were so different, and you have to look

494
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: at whether Coburger was even there in the Poconos. Many

495
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: of us believe the parents of Coburger were called to

496
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: testify the grand jury to establish his alibi and rule

497
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: him out in the Smithers murder. And we say the Smithers' death,

498
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: we don't have a coeod are yet cause of death.

499
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: But what about this case.

500
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 10: New evidence that Coburger was stalking potential victims months before

501
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 10: the murders. This just released police bodycam video shows a

502
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 10: neighbor of the Idaho murder victims reporting a bizarre theft

503
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 10: of a suitcase from her car.

504
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 13: And then I found my underwear like shot.

505
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: Right there in the cup holder.

506
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, and I took it out.

507
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 10: It happened eight months before the murders. Look in the distance,

508
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 10: that's the house where the four students were stabbed to death.

509
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: There is a direct progression from smaller petticrimes to larger

510
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: felonies and more.

511
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: Listen, hey, how's it going here?

512
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 12: You?

513
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 3: Okay?

514
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 9: So this morning I just.

515
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: Got on yeskay.

516
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 13: And this morning I walked up heres in my suitcases

517
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 13: inside that I remember leading it in my car off

518
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 13: my MR. I was like, hey, did my suitcases up

519
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 13: and she's like yeah, I was in the middle of

520
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 13: the road, and I was like, that's weird.

521
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 3: Oh your suitcase was in the middle of the road.

522
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 13: Yeah, it was like back over here, and I had

523
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 13: it in the back of my car. Oh interesting, Like

524
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 13: maybe I forgot and just left it out and I

525
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 13: take it inside and I open it and all the

526
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 13: stuff that I had, Oh I locked it ash wasn't key.

527
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 13: So all the stuff I had up here, all my

528
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 13: past stuffs and stuff I had in the center console,

529
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 13: my sunglasses I was literally wearing yesterday were all shoved

530
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 13: inside my suitcase and like it was like zipped back up.

531
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 9: And so everything that you had in your front seat

532
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 9: was now in your suitcase.

533
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 14: Okay.

534
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 13: And then there's like a shoeprint over here, and then

535
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 13: there's like my fuse box under my steering whells like opened.

536
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: Had no chance someone's playing a prank on you. Yeah,

537
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: I didn't think so.

538
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 13: I don't see why anyone I know would ever do that.

539
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 13: But like me and then I found my underwear like shoved.

540
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: Right there in the cup holder.

541
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I took it out to Broughter Bethany Marshall,

542
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: a psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills. You have

543
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: that incident and another incident that we have been discussing.

544
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut four to four our

545
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: friends at Dateline.

546
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 14: Our source says Coberger had befriended a woman in his

547
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 14: graduate criminology cohort. The woman had returned to her apartment

548
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 14: one evening and found some things amiss, items moved from

549
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 14: where she'd left them in the kitchen, in the bath,

550
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 14: quite bizarre. So what did she do well? Our source

551
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 14: tells us that since nothing had been taken, the woman

552
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 14: did not call the police. Instead, she called her new friend,

553
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 14: Brian Coberger, who our source says, volunteer to come over

554
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 14: and take a look, and he soon recommended the installation

555
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 14: of a video security system and he Coburger volunteered.

556
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 5: To do the work.

557
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: Doctor Bethany Marshall, the similarity in.

558
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: That alone, in that case with the female colleague from

559
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: Washington State University is in my mind, except for the

560
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: murder a fingerprint. You have the thrill of planning it.

561
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: You have identifying your victim. You have the cat and

562
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: mouse of building up her trust so she would be

563
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 2: manipulated into coming to him to install the security system,

564
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: entering the home, the thrill that must have been for him,

565
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: if in fact these allegations are true, paralleled against email,

566
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: contacting the Idaho students, some of them on social media,

567
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: following them, going to their place eleven or twelve times

568
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 2: before the murders, running into them, we believe, or watching

569
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: them where they worked or went to school, ultimately entering

570
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: their We haven't connected the underwear incident to Caiburger yet,

571
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of security video cameras in

572
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: the King Root area. So let's talk about the parallels

573
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: in these three cases.

574
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 8: Well, the parallels obviously, there's an offending pattern, and the

575
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 8: offending pattern you describe so beautifully, But the underlying motives

576
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 8: I think are being a sex predator and a sex

577
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 8: addict with a prolific fantasy life where he has to

578
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 8: choose victims to match up to his internal masturbatory fantasies.

579
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 8: All of these victims have something in common. They are

580
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 8: unaware that he's watching them. He's probably watching them a

581
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 8: lot nancy, and what begins to pray upon is their femininity,

582
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 8: whether it's moving underwear around, feminine items, or in the

583
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 8: case of the four students, the three women who were

584
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 8: were murdered, you know, taking a look at their pictures

585
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 8: and maybe even using those as a part of a

586
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 8: sort of like his own personal pornography of sorts, or

587
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 8: also gathering them as trophies. Now, I think what distinguishes

588
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 8: the four Idaho murders from the prior to incidents that

589
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 8: you're talking about is that these women rejected him in

590
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 8: his mind, the students Idaho students, he dms them, He

591
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 8: tried to contact them, they didn't get back to him.

592
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 8: And this is where the pattern of watching playfully toying,

593
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 8: like you said, cat and mouse, using them to satisfy

594
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 8: sexual fantasies men began to develop into rage and the

595
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 8: desire to commit a statistic homicide. Because sadism and sexual

596
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 8: predatory behavior do go hand in hand. So he could

597
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 8: no longer use pictures and spying and looking and moving

598
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 8: underwear around as a part of his sexual fantasies. Now

599
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 8: he had to inflict pain to enhance his sexual fantasies.

600
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 8: One more quick thing, Nancy that the stuffing of the

601
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 8: of the underwear into the cup holder. I said, this

602
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 8: may be unseemly and unprofessional, but the first thing I

603
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 8: thought was stuffing a penis into a vagina that he

604
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 8: was already you know, practicing a rape back when he

605
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 8: did that, because that is just such a strange thing

606
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 8: to do. And also when he gathered some of the

607
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 8: items from the car into the suitcase, I also wondered

608
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 8: if he wasn't preparing to take those home as his new,

609
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 8: uh you know, war chest of trophies.

610
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

611
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 2: To Jeane Fisher, former felony prosecutor in the Coburger Jurisdiction, Idaho.

612
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: If and when the prosecution announces they are seeking the

613
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: death penalty, and I do expect them to make that

614
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: announcement within the next sixty days, how do you how

615
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: would you foresee the state using similar transactions at the

616
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: death penalty phase, such as manipulating the colleague, stalking her,

617
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: going by her place, figuring out if she's home, a

618
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: lot of planning, gaining access to her apartment. Did he

619
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: gain access to the King Road home in the same

620
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: way going there when she wasn't there, going into King

621
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: Road when he thought everybody was asleep.

622
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: How long he had.

623
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: Been cultivating the relationship with the colleague, how long had

624
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: he been stalking the Idaho victims going in for sexual gratification.

625
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: According to psychoanalysts and therapists, that this violence and the

626
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: stalking is hand in hand and sexually gratifies him in

627
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: some way, going into we believe the colleague's bedroom, going

628
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: into the Idaho victim's bedrooms, and ultimately performing a crime

629
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: on the female victim. Three of the Idaho victims are female,

630
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: in the same geographical area, in the same type housing,

631
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: gaining entry into a residence. I mean, there's so many similarities,

632
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: but the one is cut short because the female colleague

633
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 2: was not murdered, She was manipulated into allowing him to

634
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: set up the security surveillance. Do you believe that that

635
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: instance can be used as a similar transaction at the

636
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 2: death penalty? Aggravation says yeah, I think that.

637
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 5: The one instance that you're talking about from the w

638
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 5: SU student colleague that can be directly linked to you know, Colberger,

639
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 5: would be used. You know, the instance that they're talking

640
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 5: about with the girls, you know heard higher luggage, you know,

641
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: the car broken into and and all of that. I

642
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 5: mean it's highly I highly doubt that they will be

643
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 5: able to use that.

644
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: And last we find out he took some of the

645
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: Idaho victims underwear, which would then make it more of

646
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: a similarity and more relevant.

647
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 5: But but I think, you know, there's they will have

648
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 5: had so much more information by then as well, if

649
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 5: it goes into the death penalty case, then the sense

650
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 5: does have you know, has an obligation to turn over

651
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 5: whatever it is that they intend to use in mitigation.

652
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 5: But they will have learned so much more about all

653
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 5: of them, will learn so much more about his past,

654
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 5: his history, you know, the things that you've already heard

655
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 5: about about his life in Pennsylvania, his you know, his

656
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 5: behavior there. I mean, they all of that will the

657
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 5: state will be able to use in its aggravation part

658
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 5: of the trial.

659
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: It is a matter of progression, a progression from Chris McDonough,

660
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: from peeping tom sending emails on social media, bumping into

661
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: them at work. It leads up to murder. And again

662
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: that is not statistical, that is anecdotal that very often

663
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: we see killer start as for instance, peeping toms.

664
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 9: Absolutely, and you know from an investigative aspect here, you know,

665
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 9: just kind of overlaying the psychology of how this guy

666
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 9: is operating. If we even go back to you know,

667
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 9: the earlier just the initial female contexts at the barsh

668
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 9: in Pennsylvania where he you know, if we tie that

669
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 9: type of behavior into Okay, I've been rejected, Well, he

670
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 9: has this fuel withinside of himself at those moments, so

671
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 9: that fuel has to be you know, expelled somewhere. So

672
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 9: I think there's a high probability of many type of

673
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 9: voyeurism events that we just aren't aware of yet, even

674
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 9: in Pennsylvania, and that a lot of those terabytes of

675
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 9: data that's been turned over to the defense, I think

676
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 9: there's going to be that footprint along into all of

677
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 9: this you know, fantasy based problem that he was building

678
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 9: and then eventually that led up potentially if he is

679
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 9: the killer to the murder of before college students.

680
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: And Rachel Shilkey joining US investigative news reporter with the

681
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: Washington Examiner, What more can you tell us about Coburger

682
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: as of today?

683
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 7: Now? Basically he is going to trial on October second.

684
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 7: I actually did some calculating, and prosecutors have until I

685
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 7: believe July twenty second or twenty first of this year

686
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 7: to term whether or not they're seeking the death penalty.

687
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 5: So you know, right.

688
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 7: Now he is sitting in jail and he's awaiting his faith.

689
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: He's probably listening right now, listen to you talking about

690
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 2: I'm Rachel Shulkey.

691
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: We wait as Joseph Simp calls, goodbye, friend,