1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: It's that time, High luck and load. The Michael Very 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Show is on the air. The presidential candidacy of Robert F. 3 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior did not leap to the forefront of political 4 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: news because the Democrats kept him off of the ballot 5 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: most days. He had to fight like hell to get 6 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: back on the ballot, and now they won't take him 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: off even though he has endorsed President Trump. One of 8 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: the areas and probably the primary area, where I think 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: he has made a huge difference. And I don't agree 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: with Robert F. Kennedy Junior on every issue, I want 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: to be clear on that, but he has been a 12 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: person who has brought our attention to what goes in 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: our foods, what we're feeding our children, what we're putting 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: into our bodies, and what we're calling quote unquote medicine. 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: You know, when you go to the doctor. 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: My mother desperately wanted me to be a doctor because 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: she had such respect and admiration for doctors. She was 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: a nurse's aide when we were little, to help pay 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: the bills, and we had the physician's desk reference and 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: that was everything else before. That was before the med 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: MD or whatever, where you could go in there and 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 2: find all the things you were going to die of. 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: But doctors were healers, they were trusted. There were a 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: cross between a scientist and your pastor, and there was 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: such respect for the doctor and the medical establishment and 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: vaccines and pharmaceuticals and all these things were going to 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: help us live longer and be happier. 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: And somewhere along the way it all went wrong. 29 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: And that misplaced trust is a legacy, sadly of a 30 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: time that is long gone, or maybe maybe never really existed. 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: We came across the name of Kim Whitsas, and she 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: has a funny spelling. It's pa is for those of 33 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: you who are polished, You're like's not phoney it all 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: I know exactly hospitality. She's soothfvisor and she is the 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: reason we have black box suicide warnings on SSRIs. She's 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 2: become a drug safety advocate and this is her passion. 37 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, hell hath no fury like a 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: woman's scoring. Hell hath twice the fury as a woman 39 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: on a mission. And she is a woman on a mission. 40 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: Honored to have you, Kim Witsas, Welcome to the program. 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: Oh thanks for having me Thank you so much. And 42 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 3: I like your introduction when you talk about the trust, 43 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 3: because I think, you know, that is a very common 44 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: and I still think there's that's a pretty common attitude today. 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit different than you know, the last 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 3: couple of years, but yeah, you know, I'm glad, I'm 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 3: glad you're having this conversation. 48 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: Let's go to the toughest thing we're going to have 49 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: to talk about today. On August sixth, two thousand and three, 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: my world came crashing down on me. Can you tell 51 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: what happened and what spurred you to commit your life 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: to this? 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: Sure? I like to call myself the accidental advocate because 54 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: I never set out to do the work, the drug 55 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: safety work that I do today, But sometimes our greatest 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 3: purposes choose us. On August sixth, two thousand and three, 57 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 3: over twenty one years ago, I was out of town 58 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: on business and I got a call from my dad 59 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: because I hadn't heard from my husband all day, and 60 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 3: I'd say, hey, Dad, do me a favorite go over 61 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: and check and see if my if what he was, 62 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: you know, because he had just started a new job 63 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: and was having trouble sleeping. So my dad goes over 64 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: to my house and I get a call. I'm still 65 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: on set shooting at like eight o'clock at night in Detroit, 66 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: and it was my dad and the phone call it's bad, 67 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: it's bad. I'm like, what do you mean it's bed 68 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: like what he's dead. I'm like, what do you mean 69 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: what he's dead? He's like, I go, how do you 70 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 3: know he's done? And he's like, he's hanging, and literally, 71 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: in one like second, my entire world, everything that I 72 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: had planned, everything that I knew, came crashing, crashing down, 73 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: and literally those words to this day, twenty one years later, 74 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: still you know, ring in my head because I still 75 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: can't believe it. And I've been doing this work for 76 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 3: twenty one years, but you know, everything intuitively in my body. 77 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 3: When my dad's like he's dead and hanging, I'm like, 78 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: what we wasn't depressed. He had no history of depression 79 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: or anything else. He had just started his dream job 80 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: with a startup company five weeks or earlier in the year, 81 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: but five weeks earlier he went to the doctor because 82 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: he was having trouble sleeping. So he was one of 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 3: those guys that you were just talking about, like your 84 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 3: mother who blindly trusted the doctors, right, his doctor would 85 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 3: was a big athlete. They put him together, you know, 86 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: after he got injured playing sports. You know, he got stitches, 87 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: they stitched them up, you know, fixed his knees. He 88 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: didn't think that they got paid enough because they got 89 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 3: him back up and running and playing on the basketball court, 90 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: et cetera. So he went to his GP, you know, 91 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: about five weeks earlier, and was telling him how he 92 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 3: was having trouble sleeping, and his doctor, who he trusted, 93 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: gave him a three week sample pack of an antidepressant, Zoloft, 94 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 3: and said that it would take the edge off and 95 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 3: help him sleep. And I happened to be it was 96 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 3: my busy time of my work, and I happened to 97 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 3: be out of the country the first three weeks when 98 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: he was put on those drugs, and the drug that 99 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 3: he came home with the sample pack automatically doubled the 100 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: dose after week one. And so that's really kind of 101 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: the precipitus of this when he had no history. But literally, 102 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: when I got that call, I'm like, there's no Everything 103 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: in my body was like, there's no way that what 104 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: he was hanging like, it just didn't even make it 105 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 3: didn't even compute with my body. 106 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: But literally that night when my. 107 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: Life fell apart, the corner called and asked me a 108 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: question and asked if what he was taking any medication. 109 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: The only thing he was taking was zoloft, and she said, 110 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 3: we're going to take it with us. It might have 111 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: something to do with his death. That was clue number one. 112 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: Clue number two was, ironically, the same day when he 113 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: was found, the front page of our Minneapolis Star Tribune 114 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 3: had an article that said the UK finds link between 115 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: antidepressants and suicide in teens. And that literally happened the 116 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: same night that my husband's death, that made no sense happened. 117 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 3: So you know, that became really the start of it. 118 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: As I'm trying to get back from Detroit where i was, 119 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: back to Minneapolis, my brother in law goes home and 120 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: googles zoloft and suicide. And we had no idea that 121 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: the FDA held hearings in nineteen ninety one when it 122 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 3: was only prozac on the market, and at that time, 123 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: every one of the advisory board members took money from 124 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 3: pharmaceutical makers make an antidepressant, and they said, nope, we 125 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: don't see any link between violence and suicide with prozac. 126 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: So the FDA said, told Eli Lilly, let's study soucieality. 127 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: Of course they never did or never never got brought 128 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 3: to the forefront. And meanwhile, the FAA approved additional antidepressants 129 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 3: from Advisor being Zoloft and Taxel from Glaxis Smith Klein 130 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: and approved it for children. 131 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: And so that was what he was two thousand and three. 132 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: This was in nineteen ninety one. So almost immediately this 133 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: became our mission because Woody love life, and there was 134 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: no way that this was going to be the legacy 135 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: that was going to be, you know, for for him. 136 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: He loved you know, we were just starting to try 137 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: to have kids and and everything. So this became our mission, 138 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: my brother in law and I's mission, and started almost 139 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: immediately going out to DC and we call it the 140 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: Battle for Woody, and it became you know, me with 141 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 3: everybody from the FDA, Congress, anybody who would listen to 142 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: tell our story. And then ultimately had a lawsuit which 143 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: was part of it, and got documents. I'll come under seal. 144 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: But it's a pretty tragic story and it's one that 145 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: still is going on, you know, twenty one years later, 146 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: and It's become just part of who I am today. 147 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: Because we didn't know. We blindly trusted. And if I 148 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: could do anything to help another family not have to 149 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 3: discover what we discovered after the fact, I will do 150 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: that the rest of my life. 151 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: Hold right there. Kim wit Sex is our guest. If 152 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: you want to find her, it's online. It's Kimwitsex dot com. 153 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: And I'll spell it for you. Kay, I am obviously 154 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: Wi t czak Wi t czak. More we start coming up, 155 00:08:52,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: remember me, remember Scott mad Kim wits is our guest. 156 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: A quote attributed to her sickness used to happen to you. 157 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: Now we live in a world where it is. 158 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: Being sold to us. It sounds very reminiscent of what 159 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy Junior has said over the last few years, 160 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: and that is there's nothing more profitable than a sick child. 161 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: Kim. 162 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: We talked about the impetus for this activism on your part. 163 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: I'm guessing it doesn't pay well, if at all. But 164 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: you know there is something about a ministry a zeal 165 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: a person has when they see wrong and they have 166 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: to write it. Do you see any hope in your 167 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: twenty one years of advocacy. Are we seeing I want 168 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: to go deeper into what you have to say, but 169 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: is there any light at the end of the tunnel? 170 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: Are you collecting any wins along the way? 171 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: Sure, you know, it's been a long journey, but you know, 172 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 3: some of the winds along the way were the fact 173 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: that we did get the warnings added to antidepressants in 174 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: two thousand and four, in two thousand and six, but 175 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: to this day there are no there are no warnings 176 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: that exist for all ages. And the reality is with antidepressants, 177 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: the risk of suicide, violence, all of any of those 178 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 3: kind of neuropsychiatric side effects happened at all ages, so 179 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: everybody should be worn. So there's you know, that was 180 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: a light. I think the fact that I got appointed 181 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: and was you know, I sit on the FDA Advisory Committee, 182 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 3: the same one that in nineteen ninety one didn't do 183 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 3: their job. I sit on that committee today and I'm 184 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: often the loan vote, but at least I'm there, you know, 185 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 3: So these are some small winds. And then I would 186 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 3: also say, you know, I feel like I've been banging 187 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: my head for a long time on these issues as 188 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: well as you know, I thought it was truly when 189 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: when it first happened, I mean I was kind of 190 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 3: one of those people that blindly trusted too to be honest, 191 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: and I thought it was just an issue with antidepressants, 192 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 3: but I realized, oh no, no, no, this is a systemic 193 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 3: problem with our whole drug safety system. It is you know, 194 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 3: health As I always say, healthcare is of business and 195 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: they need patients to go to, you know, as customers. 196 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 3: And so I do think the last couple of years 197 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 3: of you know, with what happened with COVID and the 198 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: rush the you know, quote unquote vaccine that I think 199 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: we've now opened, I think that was the light that 200 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 3: kind of spotlighted what's been going on for and for 201 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: people like Kennedy, people like myself who've been in this, 202 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: the lawyers, other advocates that have been advocating for the 203 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: ugly side of medicine, the harms. This has been going 204 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 3: on for a long time. But I think there's all 205 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: these new people that have come into the system and 206 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 3: are now seeing like whoa even like I love when 207 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: I hear docs that have like are starting to learn, wait, 208 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 3: I didn't even know what I didn't know. And I 209 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 3: think that to me is a bright spot that we 210 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 3: have to continue to shine the light and bring more 211 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: people into the fold, because ultimately, at the end of 212 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 3: the day, you know, you know, keeping people sick is 213 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: a great business strategy. It's an awful strategy for living 214 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: well into you know, and aging well. 215 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: You know. 216 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: It's a they call it planned obsolescence in the consumer 217 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 2: product market, the idea that we could make a tire 218 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: that would last a million miles, one hundred years, whatever 219 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 2: the period of time is. 220 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,959 Speaker 1: But where's the profit in that? 221 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: It's much better to treat the symptoms than to heal 222 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: the patient, because when you heal the patient, you don't 223 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 2: keep him on a monthly subscription. Once you understand how 224 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 2: often that is the case. And I want to be 225 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: very clear, there are a number of doctors and medical 226 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: professionals listening to our show, and I don't want you 227 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: to think that we think that every one of you 228 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: is evil. 229 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: In fact, very few are. 230 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: But it's enough to make a difference, and the business 231 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 2: side of this doesn't have to be terrible. I want 232 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: people to make money. I want them to make money. 233 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: I want their patents protected, I want them to engage 234 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: in research and development. I want them seeking cures to things. 235 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: But I cannot pretend any longer that we live in 236 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 2: a world where it's not the case that people are 237 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: being allowed to suffer and die when there are cures. 238 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: People are being injected with what's being called a vaccine 239 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: that is not a vaccine. 240 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: They're getting boosters. I don't know what number they're on. 241 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 2: Now we find out that eleven thousand governmental officials were 242 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: exempted from it. 243 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: It's nonsense. It's crazy. 244 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: And if you love humanity and you love your neighbor, 245 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: you have to be willing to study and enter into 246 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: some very difficult conversations. And that's what I hope we're 247 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: talking about today. That's what I hope you'll be willing 248 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 2: to be open minded about. I read of you, Kim Witsex. 249 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: My drug safety FDA reform advocacy was born out of 250 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: nothing but a deep knowing that something didn't make sense 251 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: about what he's death. And if you're new to the show, 252 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 2: that's her late husband who hanged himself. So I started 253 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: to dig into the one only thing that changed my 254 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,119 Speaker 2: husband's life, being prescribed zoloft. 255 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: This journey for the. 256 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: Truth took me to the FDA HHS Congress, the courts 257 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: and the media. What I learned shocked me. Someone had 258 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 2: to do something. So why not me talk a little 259 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: more about what you learned about the pharmaceutical industry side effects, 260 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: because I know somebody who took his own life, who 261 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: was on an antidepressant it preceded zoloft, and you never 262 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: get that person back. 263 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: The pain never heals. 264 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, well, I have to say I was pretty shocked. 265 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: I would just even I will go back to just 266 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 3: knowing that in nineteen ninety one there were hearings at 267 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 3: the FDA, like how come I we didn't know. I mean, granted, 268 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety one, I was like, just you know 269 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: in college, like that was the furthest thing from me. 270 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 3: I had no history of any of these medications, but 271 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: you know, the biggest thing, and I think what was 272 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 3: really potent in helping get and push for the black 273 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 3: Black suicide warnings as well as there were big congressional 274 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: hearings that were happening at that time too, to do 275 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,239 Speaker 3: with all of the moneies that were flowing between the companies, 276 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 3: academic institutions, the FDA and the and the companies, and 277 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: so that was happening at the same time. 278 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: But really what was potent was the drug. 279 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: Company and FDA internal documents that the judge in My 280 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: wrongful death Failure to Warn lawsuit released that showed that 281 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 3: the FDA advisor Blacklistmiths client they've known about the risk 282 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 3: of suicide and violence, as well as the lack of 283 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: efficacy from the early days. Like when you see it 284 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: in black and white on their letterhead. It's not about 285 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: you know, Woody being gone and meeting all these other 286 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,479 Speaker 3: families that had very similar examples, you know, similar situations. 287 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: It's when you see it on letterhead and you're like 288 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: somebody knew, and you know, people like Woody and countless 289 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: and thousands of others and probably hundreds of thousands of 290 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: others were considered the cost of doing business collateral damage 291 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 3: because you know, they'll always be risk with medicine, so 292 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: they just kind of factored in almost like an actuarial 293 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 3: you know, it's a business decision, but you know what 294 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: for somebody like me and our family, like those were 295 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: that was somebody's husband, that was somebody's son, that was 296 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 3: somebody's uncle, that was somebody's friend, that's somebody's kid, and 297 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: so those you know, once you put it in that 298 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 3: kind of frame you have to do something, and I'm 299 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: all about making money, but doing it the right way. 300 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 3: And when you know, and this is what I'll never understand, 301 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: even back then, when they'll be like, oh, well, these 302 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 3: drugs just make you. They make you feel better, so 303 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: you're gonna, you know, act on your impulses, I'm like, 304 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 3: well that should have been number one warning. You should 305 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 3: have done that from the beginning. But again when you 306 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: look at the documents where you know, like one of 307 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 3: them was just this this, I didn't realize that. In Germany, 308 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: protect was never approved initially for two reasons, risk of 309 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: suicide lack of efficacy. Eventually it did get approved, but 310 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: it had to be prescribed with a sedative, and that 311 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: is to to offset this like akathesia, which is this 312 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: side effect, which is what they kept from GTS and 313 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 3: Defizer actually talked about it as if a paid or 314 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 3: somebody gets this side effect to akathesia, which is like 315 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: what wo He told me three weeks after he started 316 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 3: taking this drug where he was standing outside his head 317 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 3: looking at a body looking in and I had no 318 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 3: idea what was happening. 319 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: Kim Holder up there, that hold out there There's plenty 320 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: more to talk about. Kim Whitsack is with Kim Whitsacks 321 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 2: is our guest. We'll continue our conversation with her. Her 322 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: comment that sickness used to happen to you. Now we 323 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: live in a world where it is being sold to us. 324 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: I don't care if somebody did this, fakes you. You 325 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: can't shoot Michael. Kim Whitsacks is our guest. 326 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 2: It's an odd spelling, but if you can figure it out, 327 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 2: you can find her online. 328 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: You can connect with her. 329 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: You can learn a lot more about her passion and 330 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: zeal and activism for the health of her fellow man, 331 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 2: for information and transparency. I understand there are side effects 332 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: to every drug. I understand that there can be a 333 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: downside to a drug that can heal a lot of people. 334 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: But consumers, patients, Americans should know what those things are. 335 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: They shouldn't be hidden from you. You shouldn't be lied to. 336 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 2: Kim Whitsacks is spelled k I M obviously Wi t Czak. 337 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: Let's spell that again, Wi t Czak, kimwitsas dot com. Kim, 338 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: you were finishing talking about what his death. That's her 339 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 2: late husband. He hanged himself. He was on Zoloft. That 340 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: set her off on a over two decade long journey 341 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 2: of activism and we're the better for it. 342 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: But I think I had to interrupt you in the middle. 343 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: Oh sure. 344 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: So I was talking about the side effect akathsia and 345 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 3: one of the documents that we got out from the 346 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 3: lawsuits that was written by Pfizer's chief medical officer. It's 347 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: a journal article that I talked about if patients get 348 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 3: the side effect akathesia, it's quote unquote death can be 349 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 3: a lot result. So that was public, But what wasn't 350 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 3: public was the fact that he wrote a memo to 351 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: his sales field staff saying that the attached journal article 352 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: is not suitable for general practitioners, but may be of 353 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: interest to neurologically inclined by psychology or psychiatrists. Well, the 354 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 3: bulk of these drugs were written by GPS, so they 355 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 3: intentionally kept that from GPS. And so once you started 356 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 3: digging in, and I would, because I love traveling, and 357 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 3: I would go to all these conferences around the world 358 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: with my lawyers, and I would go to the one 359 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: that had a huge profound impact on me. That also 360 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 3: was what I ended up bringing the conference here to 361 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 3: the States. It was called Selling Sickness and it was 362 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: put on by the Dutch government, attended by people from 363 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: all over the European, EU, Australia, all over. There's a 364 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: handful of US from the US, US and they were 365 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 3: mostly attorneys and activists and myself and every example that 366 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 3: they were using of selling sickness was from the US. 367 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: And I remember thinking, why isn't this conversation happening in 368 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 3: the US. And then I started realizing, oh, wait, our 369 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: whole system is built on this. Like I call it 370 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: the spider web, and I now have a spider web 371 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: that I've created with the doctor and the patient in 372 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: the middle, and it's the system from like academics to 373 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: how the academic institutions, how advertising and marketing, the FDA, 374 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: who are they working for? It's basically the system, and 375 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 3: you know, the spider web, and it really keeps people trapped. 376 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 3: But if you don't know, you know, like spider webs, 377 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: you walk right into them. You don't know that you're 378 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 3: even part of it. But once you start digging in, 379 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 3: you see the marketing. And I always find this interesting 380 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 3: and I always love working with attorneys and that's probably 381 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 3: why I have a lot of respect or somebody like 382 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: Kennedy is because he's an attorney. He's been inside these 383 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 3: company biles. He knows how they work, he knows the game. 384 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 3: And it's not just big Pharma, it's big Fluids, big 385 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 3: m it's all of the industry. But they use the 386 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: same playbook. And it's interesting because when you work with 387 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: these attorneys, you find out one of the first places 388 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 3: that they go looking for documents is in the marketing department. 389 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: And so my whole background, you know, like you said, 390 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: I didn't choose to do this work, and I've never 391 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 3: This isn't how I make my living. I make my living. 392 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: I'm in advertising and marketing. I'm still in the in 393 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: the profession. So when I see it and I'm like, whoa, 394 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 3: my business what I do every day. Marketing is a 395 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: huge part of the problem. Even just starting out with advertising, 396 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: most people don't realize that the US is one of 397 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 3: only two countries in the world that allow drug ads 398 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 3: on TV. Then you're like, oh, wait, what about all 399 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: the advertising that happens to doctors and the way that 400 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: they're being sold. Then you start learning about like, oh, 401 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 3: marketing key opinion leaders, which is basically paying the doctors. Again, 402 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 3: this was another concept I learned out of my lawsuit 403 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 3: because Fizer had all of the journal publications already planned. 404 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 3: They knew when this article was going to run about 405 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 3: zolof being good for social anxiety disorder, and they already 406 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 3: knew what day when it was going to run. They 407 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: but it said author TBD and I was like, what 408 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 3: does that mean? Well, only to find out that they 409 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 3: needed to put a doctor on there. But they already 410 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 3: had it written and they knew when it was running, 411 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 3: but they had to put somebody in. Those are called 412 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 3: key opinion leaders or even ghostwriting. So you start seeing 413 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 3: it and you're like, oh, this is all marketing, and 414 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 3: so you know once once you've seen that, then you 415 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 3: start seeing patterns, and you know when COVID came along. 416 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: I do not have children. I know there's a lot 417 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 3: of other people that do vaccine advocacy. I've never done that. 418 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 3: But when the whole idea of the COVID JAB came 419 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 3: and I was like, wait, you're giving these companies like 420 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: Pfizer complete legal immunity. Wait, these are the same companies 421 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 3: that have paid more fines and most of the findes 422 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 3: that have come from that. They paid in big litigation 423 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 3: was from in marketing, off label marketing, and a lot 424 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: of it in marketing keeping the side effects from the public. 425 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 3: And I was like, well, that seems like a really 426 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 3: bad idea because even if they knew about it in 427 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 3: the clinical trials, which by the way, they do know 428 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 3: about a lot of these side effects, but it's when 429 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: millions of people start taking them, and that's what When 430 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 3: the marketing or the hope that you're selling, the hope 431 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: of this solution, that's when you start seeing some of 432 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 3: these side effects emerge. And so the fact that you know, 433 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: so that was like one of the big kind of 434 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 3: like flags for me was just the fact that you 435 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 3: start seeing patterns and once you see a pattern, you 436 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: know you And I always say once you've seen, you 437 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,239 Speaker 3: can unsee. And so it's the perspective that now I 438 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 3: look at everything that I see that comes out and 439 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: especially you know, even looking at ozempic and all the 440 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 3: marketing for weight watching, you know, the weight and overweight 441 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: and then you follow the business side of things and 442 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: what are the two Like JP Morgan just had their 443 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: annual and I always tell people, go look and see 444 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: what Wall Street's talking about. Go look at these conferences. Well, 445 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 3: JP Morgan has their big healthcare conference every January. And 446 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 3: what are the two big areas that they're looking at, 447 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 3: obesity and Alzheimer's And what are we seeing all of the. 448 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: New drug holds. 449 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: That's the discussion of our next and last segment. Kim 450 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: Whitseax is our guest. Will continue our conversation with. 451 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: Her man Michael Berry glad in the system lack of 452 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: tube modom Day Robin. 453 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 2: Kim wit Sax is our guest. She after her husband 454 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: hanged himself and only thirty seven years old. He was 455 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 2: taking Zoloft for insomnia, and she started digging in. She 456 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 2: started talking to people, and she started finding very, very 457 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: troubling things. And she did not simply go away. She 458 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: dug in, She learned, she engaged, she read, and she 459 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 2: has come to be an expert on the matter. She 460 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: speaks at length on the concept of selling sickness and folks, 461 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: I don't want you to understand if you're a medical 462 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: professional or just a person who thinks I'm a whack 463 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 2: job conspiracy theorist. 464 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't. 465 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 2: I have a doctor for every part of my body. 466 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: I have them on speed dial. I love and adore them. 467 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 2: I consider them family members. I respect them, but I 468 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: also disagree with them on occasion, and I question everything. 469 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: I had a doctor years ago. It's not my doctor 470 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: any longer. 471 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: I asked him about I was having a little trouble sleeping, 472 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: and I said, you know, is there something you would 473 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: suggest I do? 474 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: Foods I should eat? 475 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 2: And he wrote me a script and sent me on 476 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: my way, and I went up to the front and 477 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 2: got it, and she said, I'll call it in for you, 478 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 2: and I said, well, I can't read what it is. 479 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 3: And it was. 480 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: Prozac. Is that the anxiety drug? Is it Prozac? Yeah? 481 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: And so I said, whoa, I don't feel that. I 482 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: don't want to be on an anxiety drug. And you know, 483 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: I talked to him later and he said, well, I 484 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: was trying to do you a favor. Most people want 485 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: a prescription because they have anxiety, and I said, I 486 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: don't have anxiety per se. 487 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm wound tight. 488 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 2: I could drink less coffee, I could focus on my 489 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: career more, I could work out more, I could get 490 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 2: more sleep. 491 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: But I do not want a pill to solve my problem. 492 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: I want and I learned breathing. 493 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: Exercises turn off the phone, earlier, eat earlier, exercise more 494 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: means you sleep more. I started taking natural solutions, finding 495 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: natural solutions to make myself happier so that I'm built 496 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: for longevity. That doctor wasn't evil. He was doing what 497 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: doctors have grown to do, and that is you walk 498 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: in and tell them what your problem is. They send 499 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: you to a prescription to solve it. But that often 500 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: causes others and that's very disturbing. 501 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: Anyway. Kim Whitsacks is our guest. 502 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: If you'd like to learn more about her, her website 503 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: is kimwhitsas dot com, which is wi cz Ak. We 504 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: were talking about. You said, look at where the money's going. 505 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 2: Look at JP Morgan, what they're looking at. Obesity and Alzheimer's. 506 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: Those are the two big issues where you can make 507 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: the most money going forward. 508 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: And what did you find from your studies? 509 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 3: Oh well, it was fascinating because you go look at 510 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: what's happening right now with oozepic, right or any of 511 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 3: the what are some of you? You know? Yes, and 512 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: so like now you've got businesses popping up all over. 513 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 3: But I've heard from again going to the lawyers that 514 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 3: they're talent, they're being told by the insurance companies to 515 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: put set aside like half a billion dollars every quarter 516 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: for potential lawsuits that are. 517 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: Going to be coming. 518 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 3: So of course they know lawsuits are going to come, 519 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 3: but why not make you know, it seems that the 520 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 3: strategy is, let's make hay while the sunshine, right, But 521 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 3: then there'll be people who will be hurt and they'll 522 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 3: come after the fact and learn like I didn't and 523 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 3: then they wonder why didn't I ever question or push back? 524 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: And so same with like all. 525 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 3: Looking at the alzheimer drugs that are that have come 526 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: out that have are controversial and have already been removed, 527 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 3: like there was one that has already been removed, and 528 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 3: they're using they're all using so looking at breakthrough, they're 529 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 3: using fast tracking mechanisms, which is what we saw with 530 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 3: the COVID jabs, right they're using and which this has 531 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: been going on for a while, and this was some 532 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: you know, this was back during like twenty first century 533 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: Cures Act, which is like during Obama days. So it's 534 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 3: like going back and really kind of paying attention what's 535 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 3: happening in Congress because it's all kind of flowing through 536 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 3: this entire system but you start looking and that allowed 537 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: because you know, like, oh, there's so much pressure we 538 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 3: need we need better drugs for people, faster innovation, like 539 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,479 Speaker 3: using all those words that are buzzwords, right, and there 540 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: are motivators to like fast track, and so you're getting 541 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: a lot of these alzheimer drugs. Well, then I still 542 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 3: say we got to take a step back, or I 543 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: always go you know, like, you know that whole thing, 544 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 3: look like who's throwing the baby and the you know, 545 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 3: we're pulling babies out of the river down and we're like, wait, 546 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: we got to go upstream. Who's throwing the babies in 547 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 3: the river? Right? So I want to say we got 548 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: to go upstream and wonder even why we're even in 549 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 3: this place where now we have downstream problems Alzheimer's and obesity. 550 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 3: You know where's that coming from? We need to go 551 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 3: upstream and start looking at what is causing it. But 552 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: again I come back to you know, this concept of 553 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 3: healthcare is big business and we are customers. There's a 554 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 3: cradle to grave strategy that keeps us constantly needing medications. 555 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 3: And so this is where I challenge people like, you know, 556 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 3: people do whatever they want, but you know, giving your 557 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: power away to a doctor, to a to a pen, 558 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 3: to a quick fit, you know, like the pen and 559 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 3: paper that will give you a script to the quick 560 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: fixed pill. You know, we need to actually, you know, 561 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: we have to take our sovereignty back. And not because 562 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 3: I think there are a lot of amazing doctors out 563 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 3: there that you know, are just doing you know, thinking 564 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 3: they're doing their job because people want, you know, help. 565 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: But you know, I think it's okay to challenge. And 566 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: I tell people all the time to challenge and just 567 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 3: because they have an MV behind their name that we 568 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 3: there's no one who will care more about our health 569 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 3: and our loved ones health than we will care. And 570 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: you know, you're telling that story about how you got 571 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 3: a quick script. And I remember after what he died, 572 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: I went to my doctor and she said do you 573 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 3: think you do you think you need anything? And I 574 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 3: looked at her, I go, well, I think this is 575 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: what killed my husband, and then I go but more importantly, 576 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,959 Speaker 3: I hurt, like my husband died. And she looked at 577 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 3: me and she said, yes, but you don't need to 578 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, I do need to. This 579 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 3: is how you heal. 580 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: You have to go through. 581 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 3: But she was going to quickly give me an antidepressant 582 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 3: to help me like numb. And sure there are times 583 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 3: and places for meds. And I'm not anti med, I'm 584 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 3: just pro information, pro transparency. Give us the truth, like 585 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 3: tell us the truth like we are not. We can handle. 586 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 3: We can handle like if there's a potential for warning, 587 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 3: we can. We can handle the truth, But we can't 588 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 3: handle if we don't know what is potentially an issue. Right, 589 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 3: So again I go back to its big business and 590 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 3: there will be no one that will care more about 591 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 3: our health than you and I ourselves. 592 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: I think that's a perfect way to conclude a very wonderful, 593 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 2: our long discussion about issues. And folks, Kim can't solve 594 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: your problems, and I can't solve your problems, and doctors 595 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: can't solve your problems, and pharmaceutical companies can't solve your problems. 596 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: These are things you. 597 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: Have to invest timing, to learn to read, to make 598 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: the best judgments for you, because there is no one 599 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: size fits all. 600 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: I respect your advocacy. 601 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 2: You took an unfortunate circumstance of lemons and made lemonade 602 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: out of it, and I think you're genuinely focused on 603 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 2: trying to help other people through your work, and I 604 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 2: admire you for that. Kimwitsas dot com, thanks for being 605 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 2: our guest and thanks for what you've done. 606 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much.