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Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm Kaylie Shore, and this is too much

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Speaker 1: to say it out you. All right, Well, this is

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Speaker 1: part three of True Crime Christmas, and we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about the Satanic Panic of the eighties and nineties.

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Speaker 1: It is a fascinating topic. Um. It is also very graphic.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be um some content that covers child abuse

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Speaker 1: and um, um different sorts of like you know, rape abuse, whatever, um,

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Speaker 1: lots of that. So if that's not for you, that's

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Speaker 1: really fine, just skip right over this episode and we'll

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Speaker 1: see you next week. The thing about this topic is

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Speaker 1: it's about a a phenomenon that happened in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, and there were twelve thousand different laims surrounding

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Speaker 1: the Satanic Panic in a pretty short period of time,

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Speaker 1: and every single one of them was found to be unsubstantiated.

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Speaker 1: And cults exist, and child abuse absolutely exists, but it's

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Speaker 1: really not It's not some stranger and a cloak doing it.

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Speaker 1: It's someone's family member. Um. There's some pretty crazy statistics

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Speaker 1: on on what child abuse actually looks like. And I

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Speaker 1: think that people kind of use the Satanic Panic as

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Speaker 1: a way to convince themselves that the enemy isn't um,

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Speaker 1: isn't in at home. It's this you know, other worldly

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Speaker 1: satanic figure and it's like, no, it's your nephew, you know. Um.

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Speaker 1: So we have a natural proclivity for scary stories and

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Speaker 1: mysteries and maybe it's part of every humans brain. But

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Speaker 1: this got so fucking out of control. Your mind's about

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Speaker 1: to be blne if you've never heard of the Satanic Panic.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of different things that led up

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Speaker 1: to the start of the Satanic Panics. So it was

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Speaker 1: definitely a sort of a snowball effect. But the culture

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Speaker 1: that was created by a few particular events, um, are

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Speaker 1: what set the scene for the Satanic Panic to become

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Speaker 1: as huge as it did. A couple just factors where

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Speaker 1: there's the appearance of the child abuse industry, so um,

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Speaker 1: different treatment centers and psychologists. Uh, post traumatic stress disorder

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Speaker 1: was first being named, and these are all very very

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Speaker 1: real things, um. And then there was a change in

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Speaker 1: home life around that time, because that was when the

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Speaker 1: latch key kid generation was starting, when both moms and

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Speaker 1: dads were working and daycare like kids had never been

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Speaker 1: in daycare to that extent before, so there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of kids under the care of Strangers and um.

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Speaker 1: So in the late nineteen sixties there was the child

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Speaker 1: Charles Manson murders, which shocked the country and we're absolutely

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Speaker 1: just like fucking evil and horrible and cult like and

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Speaker 1: you know, had all the elements of a very dark

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Speaker 1: true crime. Um. Around the same time, there was a

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Speaker 1: publication of the Satanic Bible, which I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: sticking up for satan in this episode, and I need

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Speaker 1: to make that very clear. But just factually, the Satanic

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Speaker 1: Bible is basically just like regurgitated and an rand. It's

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Speaker 1: not like talking about Lucifer. It's rather bizarre. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not good. It's just totally recycling other ideas of

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Speaker 1: writers and it's just like it's not talking about Lucifer.

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Speaker 1: So it makes no sense. And honestly, Anton LaVey or whoever,

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Speaker 1: um I guess how you say his name who wrote

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Speaker 1: the Satanic Bible, Like it's just like homie, you literally

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Speaker 1: just regurgitated a bunch of people's ideas and then called

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Speaker 1: it Satanist because it was spicy. So um, but people

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Speaker 1: I didn't need to read it because churches heard Satanic

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Speaker 1: Bible and just went into freak out mode because why

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Speaker 1: would you, uh, why would you read what's in the

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Speaker 1: book when you could just judge it by its cover. Um.

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Speaker 1: And pretty soon after that, so nineteen seventy one, the

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Speaker 1: Exorcist book, which was based on a true story, came out.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventy three, there was the movie, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of that has been disproven and discredited and whatever,

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Speaker 1: but that definitely created this culture. Like the Luiji board

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Speaker 1: had just been something like like a parlor game before then,

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Speaker 1: and then after the Exorcist it was like this very

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Speaker 1: dark thing and people were, you know, just thinking about

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Speaker 1: demons a lot um. And the next the same year

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Speaker 1: as the Exorcist movie came out, there was a guy

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Speaker 1: named Mike Warnkey and he wrote a book called Satan Seller. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This has been completely discredited, like absolutely everything has been discredited.

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Speaker 1: But he's a self proclaimed Christian evangelist and Christian comedian. Um.

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Speaker 1: He wrote in his book Satan Seller it was about

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Speaker 1: a childhood of inten Satanic worship. Um. He claims that

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Speaker 1: he was a Satanic high priest and was involved in

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Speaker 1: many Satanic rituals, including ritualistic sex, orgies, killing babies, etcetera. Etcetera.

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Speaker 1: He had a very bizarre comedy bit that I watched. Also,

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Speaker 1: I researched this ship extensively and so I have a

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Speaker 1: ton of links. Um. I really don't want to spread

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Speaker 1: any misinformation on this because the whole point is out

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Speaker 1: of misinformation. So during my extensive research doing this, I

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Speaker 1: watched one of his comedy segments and it was like

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Speaker 1: he was like doing um it was the seventies, and

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Speaker 1: this guy's just like looks like such a dufus and

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Speaker 1: he's talking about, well, you know, if if nothing sticks

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Speaker 1: to teflon, then how does taffon stick to the pan.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, he's like talking about

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Speaker 1: some little girl getting dismembered and her um reproductive organs

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Speaker 1: being taken out while she was still living. And there

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Speaker 1: was like no se he just immediately went into this

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Speaker 1: thing about say and I was like, this is the

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Speaker 1: most bizarre comedy routine I've ever seen in my life. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he was featured the Satan Seller book was on Oprah,

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Speaker 1: Larry King. I mean, it was everywhere and it became

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Speaker 1: like just people just believed it, and then Cornerstone Magazine

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Speaker 1: It's actually something I read growing up in the church.

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Speaker 1: They're like a super like conservative Christian publication and they

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Speaker 1: were the ones who discredited him. So if somebody who's

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Speaker 1: completely on your side and it's like, yo, fuck Satan, like,

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Speaker 1: let's take him down. If they're like, you're lying, like

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Speaker 1: probably lying. So there was a twelve page article and

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Speaker 1: it was all based on interviews with an estimated one

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Speaker 1: people connected with Mike Wrnky and includes a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy footnotes. So this is fucking thorough and it basically

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Speaker 1: just paints him as this very dramatic storyteller, super theatrical,

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Speaker 1: and he just turned um the fact that he got

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Speaker 1: into Satanism in his um as an adult, like he

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Speaker 1: just turned that into this like victims story and the

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Speaker 1: best selling book. So acquaintances and friends of him all

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Speaker 1: said that he's just like lied, and I mean his

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Speaker 1: family laughed at the idea when Cornerstone Um he he

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Speaker 1: claimed to have lived in a witch's covin with one thousand,

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Speaker 1: five hundred people, and it's like, you can't really hide

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Speaker 1: one thousand, five hundred people. And that's going to be

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Speaker 1: the recurring theme in this is just the sheer amount

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Speaker 1: of numbers we're talking about and it's like, you can't

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Speaker 1: hide people in a city, you just simply cannot. So

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Speaker 1: he just made up this stuff and his family was like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: we have no idea what you're talking about. And he

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Speaker 1: was like a very pious Christian, like really judging and

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Speaker 1: just like talked about sin and whatever. Um. Meanwhile, he

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Speaker 1: had tons of extra marital affairs and he had three divorces.

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Speaker 1: So do as he's saying, not he do as he says,

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Speaker 1: not as he does. He married his fourth wife right

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Speaker 1: after his third divorce, and then months after he married

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Speaker 1: his fourth wife, he wrote a book called Recovering from

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Speaker 1: Divorce and it was written with his third wife Rose.

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Speaker 1: Just bizarre, like this man is just complicated. And he

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that got disproven was not

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Speaker 1: only interviewing a hundred people who knew him, but just

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Speaker 1: like factual in possibilities. So he told this one story

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Speaker 1: all the time at his sermons and his comedy concerts,

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Speaker 1: whatever and um. In his book he talked about how

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Speaker 1: Charles Manson went to one of his blood soaked sacrificial

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Speaker 1: rituals in nineteen and he would talk about this all

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Speaker 1: the time because he was like, this is where I

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Speaker 1: came from. And if I can make it out of

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Speaker 1: this like Charles Manson, blood soaked, blah blah blah, then

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Speaker 1: you can too, and just created this fictitious story because

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Speaker 1: nobody bothered to check that. Manson was very busy that

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Speaker 1: year doing his second term in the Terminal Island Federal

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Speaker 1: Correctional Institution because he violated Parle. So this was before Google.

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Speaker 1: So apparently Mike Warnkey was like, Oh, I'm just nobody's

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Speaker 1: going to check, so do you funk that guy? So

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Speaker 1: it literally just like lying out the ass. None of

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Speaker 1: it was true. And the more I'm trying to do

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Speaker 1: some really brief recounts of this, but I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: a million examples of how what he did was completely

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Speaker 1: just it just couldn't have happened. And speaking of things

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen in Night, we have the final um

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Speaker 1: kind of like found this is a final brick laid

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Speaker 1: in the foundation to let the Satanic panic just blow up.

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Speaker 1: And rock music was getting very dark and there were

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Speaker 1: pentagrams and stuff at this time, and so the culture

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Speaker 1: was giving people a lot to go off of as

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Speaker 1: far as Satanism being this huge rampant underground thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: But Michelle Smith, this lady. And the thing about this

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Speaker 1: is we're talking about some very mentally ill people, because

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Speaker 1: in order to create stories like this, you have to

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Speaker 1: be either abused and manipulated by somebody else to do it,

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Speaker 1: or just really delusional. I mean, these aren't healthy people

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Speaker 1: that we're going to be talking about in this episode.

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Speaker 1: So Michelle Smith had a lot of UM trauma and

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Speaker 1: was going to therapy and she did hypnotherapy, which um

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Speaker 1: is widely you know, debated as if it's legitimate or not.

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Speaker 1: I did um hypnotherapy one time. I found it to

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Speaker 1: be really beneficial, but I didn't like uncover the fact

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Speaker 1: that I was in a satan called for ten years

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Speaker 1: and suddenly didn't remember until I was twenty seven. It's

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Speaker 1: just like you, you've just kind of get to be

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Speaker 1: alone with your thoughts. So that's what hypnotherapy is. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: So Michelle fucking Smith sees a bunch of spiders crawling

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Speaker 1: out of her arms, and she's seeing this guy named

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Speaker 1: Dr Pastor, and Dr Pastor is obnoxious. This man is

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Speaker 1: just unbearable to even read about, much less sit across

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Speaker 1: a table from. So she's talking about spiders crawling out

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Speaker 1: of her arms, and he's like, Oh, no, something's gone

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Speaker 1: really wrong with you. We should do a lot more hypnotherapy.

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Speaker 1: So they keep doing this and and her claims keep

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Speaker 1: getting more and more outlandish. Um, she said like all

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Speaker 1: of these things that there were babies killed, and she

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Speaker 1: said that there were like thousands of people in this

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Speaker 1: cult and every member was required to remove their middle finger.

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Speaker 1: And so she's talking about like thousands of people wandering

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Speaker 1: around Victoria, British Columbia that we're missing a middle finger,

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Speaker 1: Like what this is a small down like in the

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Speaker 1: grand scheme of things, Like even if you were in

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Speaker 1: New York City and you saw people walking around without

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Speaker 1: a middle finger, wouldn't you notice? Like it would be

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Speaker 1: a thing. And so it just there was all these

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Speaker 1: weird bizarre like I mean, she's talking about there's a

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Speaker 1: really big focus in this entire satanic panic of babies

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Speaker 1: being eaten and killed, and um, it's like nobody bothered

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Speaker 1: to like question why thousands of babies went missing. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like a pandemic of missing children. They were

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Speaker 1: like they're getting stolen out of hospitals. And it's like really,

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Speaker 1: because no hospitals in the area have reported a stolen

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Speaker 1: child for about twenty five years, so no idea what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. So she's going on and on about

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Speaker 1: dead babies and spiders and being you know, there's lots

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Speaker 1: of rape, which is not what I want to get into.

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Speaker 1: But all of these stories involved like very weird, bloody

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Speaker 1: goat fucking rapes. So that's just all I'm gonna say

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Speaker 1: about that. UM So, uh, Dr Pauser does everything he

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Speaker 1: can to corroborate them, like to her like there's no evidence,

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Speaker 1: but he's really egging her on in this um. So

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Speaker 1: they spend more and more time together and they were

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Speaker 1: both married. Um. But it was like, well, she needs

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Speaker 1: more therapy because this is going on, and we just

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Speaker 1: uncovered this and now we learned that she was pregnant

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Speaker 1: and was forced to eat her own baby, and so

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Speaker 1: now we really need to focus on that. Meanwhile, doctor

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Speaker 1: Pastor and Michelle Smith are fucking and um the lying

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Speaker 1: to their spouses about it under the guise of the

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Speaker 1: fact that he needs to treat her more so Red

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Speaker 1: Flag number twelve their guys. Um he sent uh he

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Speaker 1: sent Michelle Smith to a doctor for medical examination to

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Speaker 1: crobert her tales of constant abuse. And I mean she's

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Speaker 1: talking about like being branded and and having like like

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Speaker 1: just slashed and have she would have had all these

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Speaker 1: scars and the only thing a doctor could find was

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Speaker 1: that she likely banged a tooth as a child. There's

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Speaker 1: no there's no like scars anywhere. And she had this

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Speaker 1: one um rash and she said that it was caused

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Speaker 1: by the Tale of Satan, and it actually was found

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Speaker 1: by a dermatologist to be like a poison ivy poison

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Speaker 1: oak reaction, and she was using a specific brand of

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Speaker 1: soap called Life Buoy, and it was aggravating it, so

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Speaker 1: like the rash never went away because she'd been using

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Speaker 1: the soap on it. And but but nope, tailor Satan,

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Speaker 1: Tailor Satan, not just cheap soap. So this is where

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Speaker 1: they get really opportunistic. So so far, there's nobody else

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Speaker 1: who's been able to corroborate this, no one in her family. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, she wrote all this horrible stuff about her

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Speaker 1: mother being the one who brought her into the cult,

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Speaker 1: and like her dad is like, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: anybody could say this about their dead mother who never

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Speaker 1: did anything to them. And she just got so swept

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Speaker 1: up in this um. There's no records or press reports

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Speaker 1: from the era that she said that she said she

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Speaker 1: was in this call for like ten years. There's no

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Speaker 1: records or press reports describe any missing persons or stolen

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Speaker 1: babies matching the description of the purported victims. So it's

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Speaker 1: a super detailed book and there's you just can't cover

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Speaker 1: up thousands of missing babies. It's impossible, It's literally impossible.

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Speaker 1: And so they're like, oh my god, we should write

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Speaker 1: a book. And so Dr Pastor gets a million dollar

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Speaker 1: advance to write a book about it, a million dollars

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Speaker 1: in um like equivalent, and they're just right. It's called

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Speaker 1: Michelle Remembers, and it's really dramatic. There is um a

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Speaker 1: movie and it's been completely disproven, like it is now

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Speaker 1: completely discredited. It's actually like, I mean, you could find it,

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Speaker 1: but it's not sold by anywhere reputable because it is

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Speaker 1: just absolute fucking garbage. Um, it's just a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: But so Michelle Remembers really really gave people something to

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Speaker 1: go off of, especially because it's took place in Canada.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking about a lot of Canadian

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Speaker 1: stuff coming up on part two of Stampane. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: that all brings us to Saskatoon in it's been a

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Speaker 1: slow build, but the world is ready to satanic panic. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So we have these kids who were taken away from

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Speaker 1: their parents. Um. Their names are Michael, Kathy, and Michelle,

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Speaker 1: and Kathy and Michelle are twins. Michael's their older brother.

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Speaker 1: They're all under the age of ten. They go to

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Speaker 1: see a psychiatrist um after they are in school, and

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Speaker 1: Michael does some really bizarre sexual acts sort of mimicking

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Speaker 1: things in class, and the teachers are like, something's wrong

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Speaker 1: with these kids. Like Michael's like reenacting sex and he's

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Speaker 1: super young and it's like very inappropriate. I think he

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Speaker 1: might be like seven years old at this point. Um.

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Speaker 1: So they go to see a psychiatrist. The parents like

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Speaker 1: wrote like they they wrote a letter home and they

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Speaker 1: after seeing the psychiatrists, get very um. Michael really leads

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Speaker 1: the charge on this and has his little sisters like

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Speaker 1: get on board with what he's doing. But by the

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Speaker 1: end of these therapy sessions, after a while which they

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Speaker 1: were using a lot of um, a lot of leading questions,

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Speaker 1: which is going to be a recurring theme in all

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Speaker 1: of these stories as both UM psychiatrists, social workers and UM,

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Speaker 1: and then also police officers and detectives and parents, all

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Speaker 1: asking questions that do not the kids can't answer truthfully,

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Speaker 1: and and the whole problem mirrors. Everybody was like, believe

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Speaker 1: the children, and that sounds like something we should do, right,

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Speaker 1: But but little kids lie, and so he's UM. The

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Speaker 1: kids end up accusing their parents, both their mother and father,

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Speaker 1: their mother's new partner, who later completed a lie detector

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Speaker 1: test that demonstrated evidence that he was completely evident um

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Speaker 1: innocent UM. They accused both foster parents and then several

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Speaker 1: of the foster parents relatives, including both sets of in

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Speaker 1: laws and the male foster parents brother UM. The allegations

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Speaker 1: included the the the adults had cut the children with knives,

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Speaker 1: had forced the children to participate in orgies, have sex

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Speaker 1: with dogs and flying bat like creatures, consume blood, urine,

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Speaker 1: and feces, and eat the eyeballs and flesh of roasted babies,

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Speaker 1: and other satanic rituals. So they're just accusing everybody left

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Speaker 1: and right. And then it comes out UM after some

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Speaker 1: time that Michael had been sexually abusing his little sisters

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Speaker 1: from a very young age and a lot of this,

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Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff was it's probably initially rooted

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Speaker 1: in truth because kids who are abused don't know how

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Speaker 1: to articulate it properly, and you know, it feels like

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Speaker 1: a big scary monster them, so they talk about big

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Speaker 1: scary momsters. But yeah, that ended up, all the charges

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Speaker 1: were dropped. It was just really crazy. But you're you're

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Speaker 1: probably wondering too, what what do the accusers think in this?

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Speaker 1: And the very devout Christian uh time that was happening

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Speaker 1: post like all of this Satan's stuff that had them

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Speaker 1: on high alert. Um. There's this man named Paul Ingram

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Speaker 1: in Washington and he had two daughters and basically one

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Speaker 1: um she was at summer camp and there was this

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Speaker 1: um like leader there who was doing a speech and

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Speaker 1: they would say things like all the all the kids

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Speaker 1: would be like have their heads bowed, and it would

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Speaker 1: be like, I see somebody in here who's been raped

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Speaker 1: by their father, and some girl would run out screaming,

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Speaker 1: and I see some girl who has engaged in homosexual acts,

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Speaker 1: and some girl would run out crying, and it would

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Speaker 1: be like I see somebody who's blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: It killed an anim all these things, and it would

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Speaker 1: it was really lead distressing to the kids, and I

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Speaker 1: never dealt with anything to that extent, but knowing what

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Speaker 1: it's like, you can be so easily manipulated in a

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Speaker 1: group of people in like a young youth group Christian setting,

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Speaker 1: and to that extent, it's it's very scary. So. Um,

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Speaker 1: one of these girls, one of the Ingram daughters, says

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Speaker 1: like she just had a feeling that that she had

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Speaker 1: been part of a Satanic ritual and she had been

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Speaker 1: in a Satanic cult and she just had this quote

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Speaker 1: unquote feeling and it happened right after this thing happened

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Speaker 1: at summer camp. So he's accused by his two daughters

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Speaker 1: because the other one starts saying the same thing of

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Speaker 1: Satanic ritual abuse. Um, he's devoutly religious and this could

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Speaker 1: never happen now, But during his questioning, his pastor was

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Speaker 1: present and they would not let these people go until

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Speaker 1: they got a confession, which is like, okay, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: understand that tactic. However, what do you do with the

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Speaker 1: person is innocent because you keep asking them over and

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again. But if they didn't

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Speaker 1: do it, their answer is not going to change. And

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Speaker 1: the pastors there and he's like, you gotta do this,

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Speaker 1: like you've been possessed by Satan, like you you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: remember it if you had. But the pastors like telling

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Speaker 1: him he did this. And so at this point in

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Speaker 1: in the total and like throughout the whole thing, there

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Speaker 1: is no evidence. There's no um, nobody had said like that,

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Speaker 1: nobody had seen them. It was just the two. And

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Speaker 1: that's a hard thing too. It's like it was with abuse.

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Speaker 1: There's very rarely evidence, but like there's no medical evidence

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Speaker 1: that any like Hyman's had been broken, or any scars

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Speaker 1: or bruises or any sort of abuse that happened to

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Speaker 1: these kids. But the pastor told him to confess. And

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Speaker 1: so he was devoutly religious and he was like Paul

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Speaker 1: Andra was like, well funk, I'm I guess I was

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Speaker 1: influenced by Satan, and I repressed all the memories of

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Speaker 1: what I'd done. And he pleaded guilty um because he

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Speaker 1: felt like it was the right Christian thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And then after he pleaded guilty, he was like, holy

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Speaker 1: sh it, um, none of this happened. He retracted his

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Speaker 1: confession um because he began to drop the truth of

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Speaker 1: the accusations, and it's just really really sad how that

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Speaker 1: played out. Then next up in we have a very

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Speaker 1: very famous case of exoneration about the West Memphis Three.

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Speaker 1: So the West Memphis Three we're a bunch of kind

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Speaker 1: of like weirdo goth teenage kids in West Memphis, Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: and they were accused of murdering these three little boys

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Speaker 1: um finding them at a park. And when the three

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Speaker 1: children were bodies were found, they were at the bottom

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Speaker 1: of a river. They'd been tied with so that they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't rise to the top, and they were missing, um

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Speaker 1: like their their genitals, and a lot of it was

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Speaker 1: just they'd clearly been in really rough shape and clearly

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Speaker 1: intentionally murdered. Another thing about mutilations is it's hard to

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Speaker 1: say because a lot of things missing a human body

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Speaker 1: when it's found could be from an animal eating it,

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Speaker 1: which is gross. Um, but it's really really hard to say.

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Speaker 1: But there's no evidence that these boys have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with anything. Is that they were asking families on

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Speaker 1: that street and they were like, well, there's these three

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Speaker 1: kids who are really into Satan and it's just it's

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Speaker 1: really really bad and I don't know, I just I

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Speaker 1: never trusted them. Meanwhile, there's like really really solid evidence

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Speaker 1: for two other suspects, one of them being the stepfather

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Speaker 1: who actually sued Natalie Mains from the Dixie Chicks for

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Speaker 1: um defamation because she had advocated for the exhoneration of

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Speaker 1: the West Memphis three and been like, maybe he did it,

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Speaker 1: And then the judge was like, no, and you need

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Speaker 1: to pay all her legal fees because it's embarrassing because

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00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: you didn't have to interact with the public opinion of

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Speaker 1: what happened in the case. But he his semen was

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Speaker 1: found on one of the children's um pants later after

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Speaker 1: they'd already arrested and imp into the West Memphis three,

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Speaker 1: and no, and they just didn't investigate that why there

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00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: was step stepdad semen on the kid's pants um And

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Speaker 1: then one of the most compelling theories in this is

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Speaker 1: there was a bloody man in a bow Jangles fast

399
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Speaker 1: food restaurant. Um This bo Jangles employee sees this man

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Speaker 1: come in and he's bleeding and he's covered in blood

401
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: and he goes into the women's restroom and he's freaking

402
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: out and they were like, oh, this is so weird.

403
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: We should call the police. Something bad happened here. So

404
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: then the victims bodies were found and the manager UM

405
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: called immediately after and said, hey, this might be connected

406
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Speaker 1: to the bloody man found in the bathroom because we're

407
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: only a mile away from where the bodies were found.

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00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: So he calls the police and they inspected the ladies room. Um,

409
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: the manager gave the officers a pair of sunglasses he

410
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: thought the man had left behind, and they took some

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Speaker 1: blood samples from the walls and tiles of the restroom.

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Speaker 1: So they had evidence that they could have done forensic

413
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Speaker 1: DNA testing on this was nine. They had the ability,

414
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: and the police detective who was in charge of the

415
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: case ended up testifying that he just misplaced and lost

416
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: those blood scrapings. Uh. Later on again after the West Memphis,

417
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Speaker 1: we were already like the primary suspects, Hair identified as

418
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Speaker 1: belonging to a blackmail was later recovered from a sheet

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00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 1: wrapped around one of the victims, and Um, the man

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00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: in the boj Angles was black. The West Memphis they

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00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: were all white. It's just why did they not investigate

422
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: either the semen or the bloody man a mile away

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Speaker 1: from the children. I mean, it's just but let's just

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Speaker 1: accuse you three teenagers because they have like they like

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Speaker 1: metal music, like for sure, But they ended up getting

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Speaker 1: released in two thousand eleven after spending eighteen years in prison,

427
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: and they got locked up as teenagers, so they just

428
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: like wake up and they're almost like forty and had

429
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: their entire lives taken away because of a miscarriage of justice.

430
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: And there's the thing about all these is when you

431
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: arrest the wrong person, I mean, you have you have

432
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: a murderer on the loose who's been on who's been

433
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: on the loose since nineteen ninety and god knows what

434
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: else they've done. So as this is starting to happen,

435
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 1: the ritual abuse saying didn't end up being the biggest

436
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: part of the West Memphis three story that we know now.

437
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: But the the only reason those boys were accused is

438
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: because they people thought they were involved in satanic things

439
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: because of rock music. So that brings a lot of

440
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: things to It's a very big story, brings a lot

441
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: of things to the forefront. People are referencing the Saskatchewan case.

442
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different ritualistic abuse accusations happening happening,

443
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: But Utah in Um in particular. They started the Utah

444
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: Task Force on Ritual Abuse also in nineteen nine, same

445
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: years the West Memphis three and they did a UH

446
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: survey and n of Utah citizens believed that ritual abuse

447
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: existed and sixty eight percent wanted government funding increased. There

448
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: was one case that was credible. It was called the

449
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: Design Society case, and it was a cult run by

450
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: Arvin Shreeve. It had a hundred people in it and

451
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: they were all these really fucked up things, but it

452
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: wasn't Satanism, it wasn't ritualistic abuse. And we can't confuse

453
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: a cult with what they're talking about because the ritualistic

454
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: Satanic abuse is specifically referring to an underground network of

455
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: all these different groups that like, this is the whole point,

456
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: and they have police officers involved, and they have all

457
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: these different people involved, and there's just a difference between

458
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: a hundred person cult and then what they're talking about.

459
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: Then the hundred person cult was really really fucked up,

460
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: but it did not have to do with the ritualistic

461
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: abuse that they were saying was happening in Saskatchewan, etcetera. Um,

462
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: they were talking about different things. Um. In this paper,

463
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: I read. It was I read the actual like police

464
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: report that went out to educate people for the Utah

465
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: Desk Force on ritual abuse. Um. They talked about animal

466
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: mutilation and animals eating other animals and being forced to

467
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: eat babies and using hypnosis and and this was all

468
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: in a police report and they were talking about this

469
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 1: like it was all facts, but there was I mean,

470
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: animals animals eat other animals too, Like, I don't. Animal

471
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: mutilation is a really interesting part of this as well,

472
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: because people would find a mutilated cow's body and say

473
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: it was Satanists when really it was probably a coyote. Um,

474
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: I don't. It's just there's a there's a big disconnect

475
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: between logic and what they're saying. So um I. So

476
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: that's things are heating up. This is where it gets

477
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: really really crazy. So we're gonna come back and we're

478
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Martinsville, which is one of the most

479
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: out of control stories to tell you exactly how bad

480
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: the Satanic panic is. If you're not on board by

481
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: this point and you're like, well maybe it half and

482
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: this will uh, this one, I'll get you. So we'll

483
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: be right back. So Martinsville is also in Canada, and

484
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: it's very close to Saskatchewan, that's like the largest nearby city.

485
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: The Sasquatchewan police would come in UM if there was

486
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: a large case in Martinsville and the three children who

487
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: UM Michael, Cathy and Michelle who had been abused, that

488
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: was in So this is five years later, so the

489
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: community knew knew about the ritualistic abused concept from that

490
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: it was really close to the community and it had

491
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: been disproven. But this just gets crazy. So Martinsville mother

492
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: who was a nurse, noticed some redness and broken skin

493
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: on her two and a half year old um on

494
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: her bottom and it most likely was diaper rash, but

495
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: the mom really thought it was something more and she's

496
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: a nurse, so she has the two and a half

497
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: year old about it, and the two and a half

498
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: year old says, a stranger has been poking me with

499
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: a pink rope, and the mom asked her more, like

500
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: where the stranger lives and she says she lives at Linda's,

501
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: which is her daycare provider's house. So they take the

502
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: child to a doctor and the doctor says there's absolutely

503
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: zero signs of abuse on her, like, don't worry about it.

504
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: It's probably just a diaper rash and she's who knows

505
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: what a pink rope is. Um, But the parents say

506
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: that they think that she was actually assaulted by the

507
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: daycare provider's son. So we have Linda Sterling and her son, Travis,

508
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: so UM Travis did have a prior investigation of child

509
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: molestation that had gotten lost because the Martinsville Police Department

510
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: was an absolute nightmare, which we'll learn more about UM.

511
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: So that also, like was a rumor within the community,

512
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: and so like, I just think that, I mean, it's

513
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: hard because if you're if your kids telling you something

514
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: like that, you're going to freak the funk out and

515
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to believe them. But it's a two

516
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: and a half year old. I just watched a video

517
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: of a little kid who said that he wanted to

518
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: watch a Commodo dragon eat a human because he thought

519
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: Comoto dragons were cool. Has no idea the consequences of

520
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: of that, no idea what violence really is. So it

521
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: just ends up spiraling out of control. And at first

522
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: the children say nothing bad had happened. They question every

523
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: single kid at the daycare, and this is what's bad

524
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: is they didn't just say, hey, do you need to

525
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: tell me anything about somebody at daycare? Is like anybody,

526
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: um made you fee uncomfortable? Or has anybody hurt you? Um,

527
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: they say like, well somebody, somebody's been hurting you, right

528
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: and and and they did they did they touch you here?

529
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: Did they do this? The dolls that they used to

530
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: say like point to where they hurt you, those don't

531
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: work at all because kids don't know. They're very confused.

532
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine how confused you would have been as

533
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: a kid. And they just kept questioning their kids because

534
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: they didn't want to accept no for an answer, not

535
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: because they wanted their kids haven't be abused, but they

536
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: wanted to stop it. And so they're like, well the

537
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: kids aren't. But the on the whole slogan was believed

538
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: the children, but they didn't because the children said nothing happened. Um,

539
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: So a pattern begins to emerge these Uh. The first

540
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: kids says he was forced to perform a sexual act

541
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: at gunpoint, take off his clothes and he was photographed. Uh,

542
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: then the children's accounting took a hard turn. An important

543
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: thing to know as well is all the parents are

544
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: talking to each other, so they're saying, oh my god,

545
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: well he said this, and he said this, and so

546
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: then the parents going, did somebody hold a gun to you?

547
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 1: Did somebody like make you take photographs and take your

548
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: clothes off? And then kids who are just want to

549
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: go up outside and play and have their parents leave

550
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: them alone, they're like, yeah, somebody did, and they don't understand.

551
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: They have no idea. We're talking about like four year

552
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: olds here. So then it takes a hard turn. Um

553
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: one kids start talking about a blue quote unquote devil

554
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: church outside of town where they were taken, uh, they

555
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: were forced to drink blood and injected with drugs, they

556
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: were tortured and made to perform sex acts on adults

557
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: and on each other. And then they said that police

558
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: had been involved in it. And this was after hours

559
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: of questioning these kids. Because now now the police are

560
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: involved on the investigative side. And there was a a

561
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: big seminar that had happened around the same time with

562
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: a pastor coming into town to talk about satanic ritual

563
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: abuse and educate people and talk to the police and

564
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: talk to these parents. So these parents are on very

565
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: very high alert. And then to add to the fire,

566
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: there's a local pastor who sends an urgent memo to

567
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: the Martinsville Municipal Police Department, and he said, there's an invasion. Um,

568
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: you need to be on high alert. There's going to

569
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: be chaos. Uh. And this is a direct quote from

570
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: a police report says the indications were that tonight was

571
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: a very important night with the occult in the preparation

572
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: of potential victims. Reads the report dated April. The group

573
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: in town is known as the Brotherhood of the Ram,

574
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: with the Ram being a reference to Satan. Nothing ever happens.

575
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: They like have police everywhere. They are ready for like

576
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: this influx of like hundreds of of robed Satanists people

577
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: and just nothing, nothing happens. They said they're going to

578
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: burn down our churches. And this is very like Grandios

579
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: Good versus Evil final Battle thing, and it's like out

580
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: of the book a Revelation. Nothing happens. Um, the police

581
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: find the Devil Church. It took a long time for

582
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: them to find it because kids were just saying it

583
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: was like this blue house, but um, they know, nobody

584
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: could like say where it was, and they were like

585
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: looking for all these blue buildings and then they find one.

586
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: It's like a shed it's a large shed structure in

587
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: the back of somebody's house who had nothing to do

588
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: with any of this, and they take pictures of it

589
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: and they show it to the kids, and then that's

590
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: when kids start talking about the house more, and then

591
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: all of the kids too, and they're like, oh, yeah,

592
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: that is where it happened. That's so you showed me that. Um.

593
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: So they searched the shed multiple times. There's no human hair,

594
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: there's no sperm, there's no blood, and they're talking about

595
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: like goats being bled out on the floor and and

596
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: children being slashed and babies being murdered, Like you can't

597
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: it was such a small space, Like you couldn't do

598
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: all that. And the guy who lived in the front

599
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: of the house was like, what the funk are you

600
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: talking about? And he had nothing to do with it,

601
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: and he was like, there's no way people could have

602
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: gotten in my shed without me knowing, like because the

603
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: kids were like, he was not the suspect in it,

604
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: like he had no idea what was going on. And

605
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: then kids started talking about being held in a chicken cage, um,

606
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: seeing an axe and being hit with an axe and

607
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: being locked in a freezer. Um, you if if a

608
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: child had been hit with an ax anywhere, even lightly,

609
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: you would see it. And it's super important to note

610
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: that none of these children had bruises or scars or

611
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: cuts or any injuries aside from the diaper rash um

612
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: and the chicken cage that the kids said they had

613
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: been in. These were all These weren't things that they

614
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: said before they saw pictures. These were all things that

615
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: were in the shed. They were showing pictures and they

616
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: were like, oh yeah, and then you put me in

617
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: a chicken cage and I was in there with three

618
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: other children, and the chicken cage couldn't have even supported,

619
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: like it couldn't have fit a child. There were like

620
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: maybe two, like two chickens you could fit in the

621
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: chicken cage that was suspended, like it would have fallen

622
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: under the weight, Like it was just physically impossible. Um So,

623
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: at the end of all of this, nine people, uh

624
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: the Sterling families of both Linda Travis and then her husband,

625
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: one young person who's protected by a Canadian act that

626
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: doesn't release the names of young UM offenders, and thank

627
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 1: god because she was cleared. But um So, Sterling family,

628
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 1: one young person, and five police officers including two former

629
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: police chiefs, and collectively they were facing a hundred and

630
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: eighty charges. They didn't have any preliminary hearings. They went

631
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: straight to Chile, which was a very rare move um,

632
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: but they were doing it to minimize trauma to the

633
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: children and keep it like they had the kids in

634
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: another room. And I really just wanted to protect the

635
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: kids because they had been severely abused um, which is

636
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: exactly how you should handle a case when a child

637
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: has been abused, is like not drag them through it again.

638
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: And you know, people are still operating under the people

639
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: completely believe this happened like nobody. People might be exaggerating,

640
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: but then they start to just believe everything that they're hearing.

641
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: So I don't really think anybody thought they were lying.

642
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: And that's what's so scary about this so um. All

643
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: of these cases hinged only on the testimony of the children.

644
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: No physical evidence of any of the nine people who

645
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: were accused was ever found. So no no semen on

646
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: children's clothes, no blood in the shed, no blood of

647
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: on the children's clothes, like, no d NA, no nothing,

648
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: nothing in the in the daycare that showed that something

649
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: could happen and they're talking about such a large scale

650
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: operation with I mean they're talking about babies being killed,

651
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: and like hundreds of hundreds of murders would have occurred.

652
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: And it's a small town. You can't a hundred people

653
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: can't go missing from a town of three thousand and

654
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: nobody noticed it. That's that's a very large percentage of

655
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: the population. So um. There was a police officer named

656
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: John papo Witch who had barely ever been to Mountainsville.

657
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean supposedly he had only ever gotten a soda

658
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: from a gas station. But he worked for the Saskatchewan

659
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: Police and he heard that this was happening because they

660
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: were sending in reinforcements and he was like, what the

661
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: funk is this? And he said something like have we

662
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: really investigated this well enough? Because this all looks kind

663
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: of weird. And then when police officers started to get

664
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: accused by the kids, not specific ones, they just said,

665
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: somebody in a uniform is hurting me. Um, they were like, well,

666
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: John was trying to say it didn't happen. And so

667
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden he's a suspect. And then

668
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he's on trial as part of

669
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: the hundred and eighty charges that these people have against them.

670
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: So he was picked out of a lineup um as well,

671
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: because they put together a lineup with like some of

672
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: the police suspects and random people, and a little kid

673
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: points to him and goes, that's him right there, that's

674
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: who hurt me. And then at the trial, this is

675
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: like when they do actually involve the children. Um, they

676
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: do another lineup and John Papo, which is in their

677
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: dressed totally normal, and he goes, I don't see him.

678
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: I don't see him here, and John's like okay. So

679
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: then they end up doing another line up, adding more people,

680
00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: and uh. This kid goes and he says, um, he's

681
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: pushed harder on the lineup, and he says, well, I

682
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: think I sort of recognized the guy in the purple

683
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: tie and maybe that's him. And the judge goes, why

684
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: did you pick out number seven? And the kid direct

685
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: quote said I like his tie. This is a small,

686
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: small child who has no idea what's going on. And

687
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 1: they were like why did you, and that this person

688
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: was not part of the accused, was not anywhere near

689
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: this situation. He they just pointed to this guy because

690
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: he liked his purple time. And that's so fucking heartbreaking

691
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: because this kid is being dragged through this and and

692
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: being forced to like even talk about these horrible things,

693
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: and the fact that they didn't happen, and all these

694
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: kids were sitting around like talking about eating babies and

695
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: and having to rape each other and stuff. It's just

696
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: so fucking crazy and so traumatic for these kids. Like

697
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: these kids are so traumatized anyways because of this trauma

698
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: that did happened, and I just can't believe it got

699
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: so out of control. So UM, after the children failed

700
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: to identify Officer Papa, which in a live line up

701
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: in court, the judge told him he had been mistakenly identified,

702
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: and prosecutors stayed the charges, which means that they just

703
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: kind of stopped them. But he wasn't cleared. Um. He

704
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: Eventually everybody was um cleared of their offenses and some

705
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: people did go to jail. Um. Everyone was cleared except

706
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: Travis Uh, the Sterling son, who had the one investigation

707
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: of molestation. UM. Chances of him doing something were very high.

708
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: There still wasn't any physical evidence of this situation, but

709
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: like he whatever, UM, but there um he had so

710
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: Officer Papa, which eventually settled for one point three million

711
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: in a malicious prosecution suit. Others were also compensated, including

712
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Linda and Ron sterling Um. But John Papa, which was

713
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: the only person who have got a formal apology from

714
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: the government for what he was put through. But I mean,

715
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: these people were in prison for years and years. So

716
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: the thing about the children victims is they were victims

717
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: to this madness that ensued, and many of them have

718
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: gone on to recant their testimonies and try to help

719
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: the accused get exonerated, try to tell people. I mean,

720
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: there's been the Michael and Michelle and Kelly, the siblings

721
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: all ended up being like, yeah, no, we lied, and

722
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: kids kids lie, I mean, and then they're kids, Like

723
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: they don't have fully developed brains. You don't get one

724
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: until you're twenty five. Like, you have no idea what

725
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: you're doing. You don't know that you're condemning someone to die.

726
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: A little kid with the Komodo dragon doesn't know that

727
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: he's that. He just is like, oh, eating a people

728
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: and doesn't get it because it's just a concept in

729
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: his head. And so um, there was this one girl

730
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: who got taken away from her dad because he was

731
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: under suspicion of being part of one of these um

732
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: satanic panics. Also, I mean there were I mean twelve

733
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: thousand of these claims. And I'm only talking about Martinsville.

734
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: This was not isolated. There was one in Current County. UM,

735
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: there was some in Ohio. I mean they were everywhere.

736
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: They were literally everywhere. There ton in Utah, enough that

737
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: they had a task force twelve thousand claims and not

738
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: a single shred of evidence to back it up. It's

739
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: just from a percentage standpoint, like you just don't that

740
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, especially because the kids were talking about things

741
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: that had happened recently in real time. A lot of

742
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: these were like, oh, I remember this thing from ten

743
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: years ago or twenty years ago, and it's like okay,

744
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: like finding evidence of that would be hard. But then

745
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: you have Michelle remembers who doesn't remember ship actually and

746
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: all of her stuff was like literally impossible. Um. So

747
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: the children are so victimized. And this one girl whose

748
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: dad was part of the accused UM, she was taken

749
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: away from her dad and by a social worker, had

750
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: to go to foster care for a night, and then

751
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: the next morning her grandmother and her aunt pick her up.

752
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: Her dad was a single dad, and the girl was

753
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: terrified to be in this foster. She had no idea

754
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: what's going on. She was like, why am I being

755
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: taking away from my daddy? I don't know what what's happening.

756
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't understand at all. And she thought she was

757
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: never ever going to see her father ever again. So

758
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: he ends up getting completely cleared of the charges. But

759
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: this woman was talking in an interview about how hard

760
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: it was because her he was a single father, and

761
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: he had always been like a great dad, and he

762
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: was affectionate, and he hugged her a lot, and like

763
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: she didn't have a mom, and that's really important for

764
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: kids to have like physical touch. And he was so

765
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: horrified by what they said that he'd done to his daughter,

766
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: which was really graphic and just of the same nature

767
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 1: as all this stuff, like you know, had had raped

768
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: her and made her neat a baby and ship um.

769
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,959
Speaker 1: And he was so scared and horrified of these accusations

770
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: that he never touched her again. And she said that

771
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: her dad stopped hugging her and and just never never

772
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: started again. Be so just fucking sad, and yeah, and

773
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: then like people at our school knew and would bully

774
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: her and say that her dad had done this. And

775
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: like they questioned the kids repeatedly, over and over and

776
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: over again, and this one um detective was like, okay,

777
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: well you need to be careful and how you talk

778
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: to the kids. Uh. Parents were told to only ask

779
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: open ended, in neutral questions, and that's a really hard

780
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: thing to do if you're worried that your kids have

781
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: been abused. So like, I want to give people credit here,

782
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm not. There's no villain in this story. That's what's

783
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: so scary is it's literally psychology. So the parents don't

784
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: do that. Um. And this is where the coercion comes in.

785
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: And this is like probably the closest thing to a

786
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: villain is the detectives who just can just fucked up

787
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: everything and and therapists so um. In some of these instances,

788
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: they were told that they could go play, but only

789
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: after they told police what happened. And the kids are like, well,

790
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: nothing happened, and they're like, well, you need to tell

791
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: me what happened and did they touch you? Did they

792
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: blah blah bla blah blah, And they're like, um, yeah, okay,

793
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: can I go play now? And they don't know they're

794
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: like four and five years old. These are day carrey

795
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: age kids. Like Martinsville wasn't even school age kids. School

796
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: age kids getting ended up getting involved because of how

797
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: much it spiraled. But the beginning, we're talking about three

798
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: year old. How do you interview a three year old,

799
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: especially if you're telling them that they can go play

800
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: if they do this. One thing so um. Another one

801
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: was like kids were frequently complimented for their bravery after

802
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: alleging abuse, so they were like lots of positive reinforcement.

803
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: They like, you're so brave, You're such a good boy,

804
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: thank you for telling us this. And so then that's

805
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: when it would get crazier and crazier because the kids

806
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: realized that the more they did this thing, they got

807
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: validation and positive reinforcement and they were taught that it

808
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: was a good thing. And that's how you go from

809
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: he poked me with a pink rope too, he made

810
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: me eat a baby, he made me there was like

811
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: things about like kids and like being put in um

812
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: in shark in a being put in aquariums with sharks

813
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: that eight babies and it's just so bizarre. But another

814
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: thing that they were like used, they were promised coloring

815
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: books and one kid was said that if he told

816
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: his story, then he get to go pet the police dog.

817
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: And talking about kids like they don't know, they have

818
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: no idea what's going on. UM. And you know, this

819
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: was hard because of the appearance of the child o

820
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: beast industry and PTSD happening, like all of these new

821
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: mental things are coming to light. And then they were

822
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: like these these books, books and movies like sibil about UM.

823
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: What used to be called multiple personality disorder and now

824
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: it's called dissociate identity disorder. UM. That's a very hot

825
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: topic and it's frequently misunderstood. So a lot of the

826
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: people claiming to have that when all of this was

827
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: going on, they were like, you know, usually bringing in

828
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: satanic ritual abuse into it and then UM. But it

829
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 1: just they didn't actually have the disease because they didn't

830
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: describe it the way that somebody who actually does would. UM.

831
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: So the thing about it is these kids, if they

832
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: were getting abused, it wasn't a hooded, cloaked figure. It's

833
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: somebody close to home. And the Department of Justice says

834
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: that child sexual abuse victims know the perpetrator in some way,

835
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: UM and do something. Dot Org said in seventies six

836
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: of child abuse perpetrators were apparent to their victim seventies

837
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: six percent. And um, most of these people being accused

838
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: were teachers and police officers and daycare workers and um,

839
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: friends of daycare workers, and it wasn't and parents were

840
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: brought into it. But it's just so fucking heartbreaking. And UM,

841
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: I think there's a concept that a man in a

842
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: scheme mask is the enemy, a man in a cloak

843
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: holding a pendagram is the enemy. But the enemy is

844
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: at home. The evil is in honestly, everybody and most people.

845
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: Most people are good. I think everybody could be good

846
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: and everybody could be evil, but it's it's hard to

847
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: believe in. Like I kind of talk about this, um

848
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: because there's just been some times where someone's hurt me

849
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: and then someone close to me hasn't fully understood and

850
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: they're like, well, they're like a good person. It's like, well, yeah,

851
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: I mean you're never going to get us straight up

852
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: fucking Disney villain. Like everybody has some quality that you

853
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: can point to that it was humanizes them. Hitler painted

854
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: pictures and and people bring that up just because it's

855
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: weird because you're like, oh, this evil man like did

856
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: a human thing. No, fuck him. And I'm not saying

857
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: there's like a ton of people like rational people. There's no, no,

858
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: there's no rational people to like defending Hitler. I just

859
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm trying to prove a point here. Um, there's just

860
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 1: and like on the TV show Made that I was watching,

861
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: like they really really let you in to the emotional

862
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: life of her abuser and you can see why he

863
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: wound up that way and where it comes from, and

864
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: you kind of empathize with him. And it's hard because

865
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: it's like it's easier when it's a person in a

866
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: ski mask, but when you see it as a multifascinated

867
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: human being, like it just it freaks you out because

868
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: you're like, anybody could be a child rapist. Yes, anybody

869
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: could be a child rapist and they don't have to

870
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: be a Satanist to do it. And that was the

871
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 1: problem here, is that any sort of child that abuse

872
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 1: accusations went straight to Satanic ritual abuse, which is just

873
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: not has not been proven at all. So this ended

874
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: in a lot of people being imprisoned, a lot of

875
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: people being pardoned, eventually after spending a lot of time

876
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: in prison and some people dying in prison before their

877
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: innocence could ever be proven. Um. And just a lot

878
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: of reputations that got tarnished. Like John Papowitch who was

879
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: completely cleared of all charges after the whole lineup thing

880
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: in court in Martinsville. Um, he went back to work

881
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: and he said there were still police officers who thought

882
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: he did it. Um. And it's it's kind of easy

883
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: to be like, Wow, the eighties and nineties were crazy

884
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: with the satanic panic stuff, right, It's like it's still

885
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: it's still happening. And I think that people use real

886
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: advocacy is really complicated, and I think that it usually

887
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: it usually allows, it usually requires allowing the marginalized party

888
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: to speak for themselves. Um. If you want to really

889
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: support black people who have dealt with racism, or any

890
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: person of color, you let them talk. A white person

891
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: should not be doing a fucking seminar on racism, you know,

892
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: Like if and most likely when I do an episode

893
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: about that, I'm not gonna. I don't know many needs

894
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: to hear what I think about racism other than like

895
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: I hate it and I'm going to try really hard

896
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: to like work on creating a culture around me and

897
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: setting an example that we you know, just aren't fucking racist. Um,

898
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: but nobody needs to hear me say anything more than that.

899
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: It's about a black person talking about their experience and um,

900
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: it feels almost like lazy advocacy when you see people

901
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: who are just constantly going on about and you know,

902
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm a really big animal rights person. I've talked about this,

903
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: but people who are posting the pea ship and throwing

904
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: blood on people and doing all this like shock value

905
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: should not actually accomplishing anything and just being demonstrative. And

906
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: it's like, well, the easiest person to advocate for somebody

907
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: can't speak for themselves, So an animal and a child,

908
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: and then you just have all these people and the

909
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: animal ones kind of a kind of a not the

910
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: perfect example because it's like, yes, if you talk to

911
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: a cow, the cow would be like, yes, please don't

912
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: eat me. But it's like it's just like a sort

913
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: of when you see people who are only advocating for

914
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: the unborn and animals, it's like, well what about people

915
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 1: people here? Like what about all of these homeless people?

916
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: What about um? You know, like it's just it's so

917
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: like confusing and convoluted, and I'm not doing good job

918
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: explaining it because I don't fucking understand it. But this

919
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: just feels like a lot of people who could so

920
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: quickly come and be like Fox Satan, He's ruining our children,

921
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: and it's like no, no, A lot of other things

922
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: are um. So there's a lot of this in modern society.

923
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: And one example, um and I used to listen to

924
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: her ship, there's this woman named til Swan, and I

925
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: feel like, now that I'm talking about real people, I

926
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: mean need to do like some sort of legal disclaimer

927
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: that these are all just opinions of mine. Um And Yeah,

928
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how libel works, but I

929
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with it. Um. But til Swan

930
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: said at one point that she was a victim of

931
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: satanic ritual abuse for her entire life until she was

932
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: nineteen years old. Um And she said that at one

933
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 1: point she was sewn into a corpse by a person

934
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: in the cult um and she was left there for

935
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: eight hours and a mortician she says she's eight years old,

936
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: and a mortician was questioned about this. Ever were in

937
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: this investigative piece, I was reading and they were like,

938
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: you can't fit an eight year old child into a body, Like,

939
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: no matter how overweight the person was, your rib cage

940
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: is still like you have a space of like eighteen inches.

941
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: That's an American girl doll. That's not an eight year

942
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: old child. You cannot fit an eight year old child

943
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: into a corpse. And that was like her big story

944
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 1: that she always say, like I was sewn into a corpse.

945
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: I was sewn into a corpse. Picture an eight year

946
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: old child that you know, and then picture them fitting

947
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: inside your Torso it's just it's literally impossible. And she

948
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: also I said a lot of stuff about she was

949
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: like a championship skier and she absolutely wasn't. The people

950
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: on the team We're like, yeah, no, she wasn't very good.

951
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: And she quit. She said she was like training for

952
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: the Olympics. And then said, um, she had this modeling

953
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: Mayhem account that was found and this is a woman

954
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: who has like millions of followers for those of you

955
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: don't know who deals want is she's like very new

956
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: age Crystal bitch, Like and I'm a new age Crystal bitch,

957
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: but like she um pays for search into an optimization

958
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: for people who search, um, what to do when you

959
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: want to kill yourself and all that, and she like

960
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: praise on those people, and it's just she's just a

961
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: rather scandalous person to begin with. But she had a

962
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: Model Mayhem account and um, she said she was in

963
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: this cult all of her life until nineteen years old.

964
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: And in this Model Mayhem account, she talks about she

965
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: was an international model and did runway and she had

966
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: been modeling since she was twelve years old and traveling

967
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: all over the world. And it's like, you know, you

968
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: said you were in a cult and you were being

969
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: sewn into dead bodies and you never saw people and

970
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: you were like kept in this like completely secluded place,

971
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 1: Like when did you have time to go to Bora

972
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: Bora and Fiji and Paris and and model Like it

973
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: just wasn't always in the consistencies. And so she got

974
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: really pissed and she like deleted everything and she just

975
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 1: gives all this crazy advice and she's got crazy eyes.

976
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: And I really used to like her stuff, and then

977
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: I started reading more indortion on like this one is terrifying.

978
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: But she uses satanic ritual abuse is like a huge

979
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: part of her platform. In her origin story, and it

980
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: just it just didn't happen. It just didn't happen. And

981
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: then we have, um, probably the most prominent sort of

982
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: um tie into the uh satanic panic that is now

983
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: in modern times. Um, there is a thing called pizza Gate,

984
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: and uh, this is I'm just gonna read this. Um.

985
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: It's from a couple of different articles from very um,

986
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: very like legitimate sources. I really fact checked a lot

987
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: of stuff. But the Q and on story here is

988
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: that Hillary Clinton and her former campaign chair John Podesta

989
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: ran a child sex ring at the basement of a

990
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: pizzeria in DC called Comt Ping Pong. Uh. It doesn't

991
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: have a basement, so let's just right there. This restaurant

992
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: does not have a basement. There is none. Um. So

993
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: man goes in one day and he's really piste and

994
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: he thinks that there's like all these children being kept

995
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: in the basement being raped by prominent politicians. And he

996
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: goes in and he shoots up the place. And it

997
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: all originated with just like weird four chan sourceless rumors.

998
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: One of the biggest ones to sort of perpetrate this

999
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: concept was a white supremacist Twitter account which used the

1000
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: avatar of a Jewish lawyer in New York, and it

1001
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: pointed to a Facebook post that said it had no proof.

1002
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: It said nothing about who they knew. It had said,

1003
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,439
Speaker 1: no idea where it was coming from. So it's coming

1004
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: from like an anonymous account that's reposting another anonymous account

1005
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: that said the NYPD confirmed that police had found evidence

1006
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: on former Representative Anthony Weiner's devices that the Clinton campaign

1007
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: ran an international child enslavement ring. Again, there's definitely no

1008
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: evidence for any of this, but the tweet, which is

1009
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: still up, quickly got thousands of retreats and favorites. There's

1010
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: it's just and if this was happening, you can people

1011
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: be talking about it on their fucking cell phone. I

1012
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: mean like low level drug dealers have burner phone. Do

1013
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: you think Representative Anthony Weiner? I mean, he was really

1014
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: stupid and he sense some like nudes and that was

1015
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: just fucking awkward and embarrassing. But like you think if

1016
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: he's an operating and no, it's not happening in a pizzeria,

1017
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: it's happening on Jeffrey Epstein's island. Um, And it's like, okay,

1018
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: well then why would people lie about this? Well, this

1019
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: is why people will lie about this because clickbait isn't

1020
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,439
Speaker 1: just oh I want people to click on my article,

1021
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I'm getting money. So a BuzzFeed investigation

1022
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: found that a lot of the big fake news stories

1023
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: originated from a tiny Macedonian town known as Veles, One

1024
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: Macedonian town. Their young Macedonians have embraced a digital gold

1025
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: rash by setting up fake news sites and using Facebook

1026
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: as a platform to push their false stories, reaping the

1027
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: advertising dollars that comes to the clicks and sharing. So

1028
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: they'll post something with like a crazy sensational headline being

1029
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: like Hillary Clinton child rapist? What does pizza have to

1030
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: do with it? Click here to find out? Like ship

1031
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: like that, and then it gets a ton of shares.

1032
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: Everybody's looking at it and they're clicking it, and it's

1033
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: just these teenagers making money in Macedonia. The ship is

1034
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: like both more complicated and more simple than anybody thinks

1035
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: it is. Um And so what's really scary is with

1036
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: the Q and on stuff UM. Former President Donald Trump

1037
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: was asked about them and he said, I've heard these

1038
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: are people that love our country. So I don't know

1039
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: really anything about it other than they do supposedly like me,

1040
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: if I can help save the world from problems, I'm

1041
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: willing to do it. And maybe he didn't know, maybe

1042
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: he did know what cuan On was and what was

1043
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: talking about. But it's like he gave so much legitimacy

1044
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: to this basement list, basement story, and there's now that

1045
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: like there's this big human on theory that Donald Trump

1046
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: is working to ferret out of global satanic pellet Pedophilix

1047
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: sex ring, which was secretly supported by elements of the

1048
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and the deep state within the US government. No,

1049
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: there was Jeffrey Epstein's Island, Like that's the fucking conspiracy here.

1050
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: We all know it. There's evidence, there's dozens of women,

1051
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: and I just I mean, it's just crazy that this

1052
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: is still happening. And it's it's a it's a really

1053
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: hard topic to talk about because all of a sudden,

1054
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're talking about something that's critical thinking

1055
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: twelve thousand unsubstantiated claims, no physical evidence of santane or

1056
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: gradual abuse ever in this story. And but then it's like, oh, well,

1057
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: you're not believing victims. It's like no, I I am.

1058
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: And also, these kids are victims, but it's like when

1059
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: they become adults, are like, holy sh it. I was

1060
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: totally manipulated by the psycho psychologist. And Michelle Smith was

1061
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,439
Speaker 1: manipulated by her psychologist who ended up marrying her, which

1062
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: is completely against the code of ethics, and she like

1063
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: was kept away from her family and he got a

1064
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: million dollar advanced for the book he wrote about her.

1065
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: Um Mike Warnkey made tons of money off of his book.

1066
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: And there were all these like sixty Minutes specials and

1067
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: Oprah and all of these things, and like people were

1068
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: on the smallest scale, kids were getting positive reinforcement for

1069
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: doing what their parents wanted them to do. And then

1070
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: on the largest scale, the adults that were part of

1071
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: this were getting money to write books about it. And

1072
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: it just twelve thousand unsubstanti ud claims. I don't know

1073
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: what else you're supposed to say, and like false accusations

1074
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: take away from legitimate victims. It creates this the boy

1075
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: who cried Wolf thing, and I was talking about on Twitter,

1076
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: and this is more just amusing than an actual opinion,

1077
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: but I was I would like to leave you with

1078
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: this thought. It's like after the nineteen eighties and the

1079
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties where there was so much believe the children

1080
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: and like believe people about the Satanic ritual abuse and

1081
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: and just get on board with it. And this was

1082
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 1: such a media five storm. Do you think that's maybe

1083
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: why we went through a period of time where victims

1084
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: weren't being believed until the me to breakthrough. There was

1085
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: like this period of time where UM, rape culture just

1086
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: got so out of control and there was no you know,

1087
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein was getting away with it and there was

1088
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: no times up, there was no me too. And I

1089
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like a boy who Cried Wolf thing.

1090
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're correlated. I just wanted to

1091
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: leave you with that thought. So if you guys have

1092
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: any thoughts on this episode, it's probably the most controversial

1093
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: and I've done so far, but dive down this rabbit hole.

1094
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: It is crazy. There's some really great podcasts about it.

1095
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: Um it's one of the most fascinating stories I've ever read.

1096
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: But UM, growing up very Christian, I do know what

1097
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: the their Zeitgeista devil is painted as and it's just this,

1098
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, we get to get to point at that

1099
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: for evil, and you know, if the pastor get it's

1100
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: caught watching porn. Oh the devil did it, not the pastor.

1101
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: And it's like you have to overcome the devil. It's like, no,

1102
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: you have to not be a fucking creep, Like, keep

1103
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: the devil out of it, because your ship had like

1104
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't It doesn't take the devil to make somebody evil.

1105
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: If you're going to abuse a kid, that's you. So

1106
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: we'll leave it there. But thank you guys so much

1107
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm Gailie Shore and this is too much

1108
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: to say in questions it out of you