WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Fortune Cookies

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<v Speaker 1>Hey you, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh

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<v Speaker 1>and there's Chuck. And this is short stuff about fortune cookies,

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<v Speaker 1>which is jam packed the stuff you didn't know about

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<v Speaker 1>fortune cookies. You mean the little cookies. It tastes terrible

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<v Speaker 1>that come from China. Uh part of that's right? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which part the taste terrible part? Yeah? I love a

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<v Speaker 1>fortune cookie. I've never loved eating them, but I've always

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<v Speaker 1>liked getting that fortune. I've had one or two fortune

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<v Speaker 1>cookies where I was like, that was all right. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what the deal was. They were freak fortune cookies,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess because there is definitely a rarity, for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but yeah, it's fun. They should sandwich a fortune in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of an oreo. Yeah, why not? Then that'd

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<v Speaker 1>be down so um. One of the things that I

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<v Speaker 1>never realized that I never realized. I didn't realize until

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<v Speaker 1>I started researching this, Chuck, is that the fortune is

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<v Speaker 1>not actually baked into the fortune cookie. Did you know that? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>sure it would catch fire. I didn't never think about that.

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<v Speaker 1>I never did. And also it would be like gross

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<v Speaker 1>from the you know, the batter. A fortune cookie is

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<v Speaker 1>a little thin wafer cookie and when you start to

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<v Speaker 1>cook it. Initially it's batter still, so that would make

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<v Speaker 1>the fortune paper pretty mushy. So all right, smart guy,

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<v Speaker 1>how do they put the fortunes in the fortune cookie? Then?

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<v Speaker 1>What do you mean by you never really thought about it?

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<v Speaker 1>Was you literally never thought about it for one second?

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<v Speaker 1>That's absolutely true. Uh. They bake it for a little

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<v Speaker 1>while first, and then they stick it in there, right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>bake it and stick it bacon stick, and then fold

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<v Speaker 1>it bake stick. And well you gotta fold first, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you fold afterwards. That's the key. So you bake it

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<v Speaker 1>as a flat wafer cookie, and then when you pull

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<v Speaker 1>it out of the oven, it's still pliable, really quick

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<v Speaker 1>folded into the into that thing with the with the

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<v Speaker 1>fortune inside. All right, Well, we joked earlier. I joked

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<v Speaker 1>about it coming from China, And you might think that

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<v Speaker 1>they do because you find them traditionally in Chinese restaurants

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the meal. But that is probably

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<v Speaker 1>not so. But we do have a couple of reasons

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<v Speaker 1>why people might think this, and one of them is

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that this story about moon cakes from China,

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<v Speaker 1>This this food that's kind of associated with the mid

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<v Speaker 1>Autumn festival when they're celebrating uh fall harvest. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>little pastry. It's got a little sweeter, savory filling. They're

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<v Speaker 1>usually round because of shape like the moon, but they

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<v Speaker 1>can be square, and they're baked to a golden brown

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<v Speaker 1>as far as the Cantonese style go. And they stamp

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<v Speaker 1>a little uh name when they're cooking this thing after

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<v Speaker 1>they mold it, so it's got a little stamp on

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<v Speaker 1>their right, which tells you what's inside. For a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of times, there's stuff like lotus paste, which is sweet

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<v Speaker 1>sweet sweet bean paste, which is good red date paste,

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<v Speaker 1>which is originally where the word jujub comes from. And

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<v Speaker 1>then no matter whether it's salty or savory. From what

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<v Speaker 1>I understand, the surprise in the middle is one or

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<v Speaker 1>more salted cured chicken egg yolks. Duck egg yolks. I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>which are Have you ever had one of this? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think so. I think i'd probably know if I did.

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<v Speaker 1>It does not get saltier than that. Part of your

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<v Speaker 1>face will just fall right off after a couple of bites.

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<v Speaker 1>It's crazy, just rise up and falls. You will well,

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<v Speaker 1>then you will like duck eggs. You can get them

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<v Speaker 1>at um, h Mart. They'll have them in like the

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<v Speaker 1>dairy section. What'sh mar. Oh, it's like the big Asian

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<v Speaker 1>grocery store. Korean grocery store. M I don't know about that.

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<v Speaker 1>We have there are local Japanese storey. No, this is

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<v Speaker 1>like a supermarket. Okay, it's over on two eight five

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<v Speaker 1>and Peachtree Industrial, of course it is. Yeah, go check

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<v Speaker 1>it out. Actually it's really good because not only do

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<v Speaker 1>they have everything that's Asian and like a supermarket format chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>so like all sorts of stuff you've never heard of

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<v Speaker 1>to try, they also have the most outstanding food court

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<v Speaker 1>you will ever encounter in your life. Oh you know what.

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<v Speaker 1>I may have been there, then it's really good. Are

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<v Speaker 1>there like eight eight restaurants? Yeah? Yeah, I've been there

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm constantly seeking the best egg roll in Atlanta

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<v Speaker 1>because Atlanta doesn't do egg rolls right. Oh yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>never really tried them. Yeah, they're the worst. I finally

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<v Speaker 1>found a place though. Okay. Anyway, So, as the story

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<v Speaker 1>goes back in the thirteenth and fourteen centuries, when China

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<v Speaker 1>was being occupied by Genghis Khan and the Mongols, legend

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<v Speaker 1>has it that they didn't like this lotus nut paste,

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<v Speaker 1>and so when they were warring, the Chinese hidden messages

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<v Speaker 1>about like what they were doing, the date of an uprising,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe instructions or you know, how to coordinate the battle,

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<v Speaker 1>and they would stick them in these moon cakes, knowing

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<v Speaker 1>that their message would get through to the Chinese. But

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<v Speaker 1>because the Mongols didn't like the lotus nut basted, they

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<v Speaker 1>would just go ah and they'd throw it away. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Can't you see like some Mongol horde being like, what

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<v Speaker 1>is that a mooncake? What's in there? They're like cured

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<v Speaker 1>salted duck, egg yolk. Yeah, what else? Lotus nut paste?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh God, get it away from me? Yeah, what else? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>Just instructions about the invasion, right exactly. So so that

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<v Speaker 1>legend apparently is pretty widespread, and some people say that's

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<v Speaker 1>probably where fortune cookies came from, right yeah, And I think, uh.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing too is that when children are born

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<v Speaker 1>in China that families send out little cake rolls with

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<v Speaker 1>messages inside announcing the birth of the child. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>these couple of things, and the fact that, of course

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<v Speaker 1>that you could have been Chinese restaurants, most people would

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<v Speaker 1>just assume that they're from China. Yes, but then most

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<v Speaker 1>people would be wrong because there's basically no one who's

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<v Speaker 1>looked into this story um or the origin of fortune

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<v Speaker 1>cookies that is like, yeah, they're from China, that's just wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>And we'll tell you where they are actually probably from

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<v Speaker 1>right after this, right, where are they from? Japan and America?

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<v Speaker 1>That's right? Uh? Dating back to the eighteen seventies in Kyoto, Japan,

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<v Speaker 1>they had what we're called fortune crackers. Do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to rattle off that Japanese name? Uh? Suki uda semba man,

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<v Speaker 1>You've really nailed it, Thank you. Can you actually speak Japanese? Though? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I just know how to pronounce Japanese words when I

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<v Speaker 1>see you. I didn't know if you were learning a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit or not. No, it's just it won't stick.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've never like sat down and actually really try.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's not true. I have tried a couple of times,

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<v Speaker 1>but I've never like gone to class or anything. But

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<v Speaker 1>for the stuff I have tried to pick up, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just not stuck so far. How good is Yummy's Japanese? Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like pretty much flawless. Well, that's why you don't

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<v Speaker 1>learn it, because when you go to Japan you're just like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm translator built in. I'm very lucky too, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>like a second nature impulse for her to just tell

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<v Speaker 1>me what's going on than just continue on in this conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really it's really helpful. But yeah, it's it's tough

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<v Speaker 1>not to become dependent on that. She's like, I hate

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<v Speaker 1>that big dope. I don't know what's going on fac here.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, what's that? What's that guy doing? Good stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>I wish Emily spoke something good? What does she speak?

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<v Speaker 1>So she doing with her life? She studied French, but

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<v Speaker 1>like like every other kid study a little bit of French,

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<v Speaker 1>she doesn't really know any It's like me and my

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<v Speaker 1>German were useless. I'm with you, like me in French too.

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<v Speaker 1>But those fortune crackers in Japan from the eighteen seventies

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<v Speaker 1>or flavored generally with like mis or sesame or something

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<v Speaker 1>like that, not to the fortune cookie that we know.

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<v Speaker 1>The other differentiator is that the fortunes were tucked into

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<v Speaker 1>the bend of the fortune cookie. Pretty lazy people in

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<v Speaker 1>Kyoto as opposed to wear inside the actual four yes yes,

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<v Speaker 1>which you don't. I mean, that's not good. They didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>They never learned the bacon stick. No, I guess not.

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<v Speaker 1>But they did seem to originate something like fortune cookies.

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<v Speaker 1>The question is how did that get to America. That's

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<v Speaker 1>still unclear. So instead we say, okay, how where did

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<v Speaker 1>the actual fortune cookie as we know it came from?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's actually disputed. But the first, the earliest um

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<v Speaker 1>story is in nineteen o seven and there's a guy

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<v Speaker 1>named MacOda Makotagara and he was the caretaker of the

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese tea gardens in San Francisco. And there's a story

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<v Speaker 1>I've not been Actually it's a Golden Gate park, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to check it out. But um hog aora san.

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<v Speaker 1>He apparently was fired for being Japanese by the mayor

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<v Speaker 1>of San Francisco at the time, who said, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>Japanese person taking care of the Japanese tea gardens. It's

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<v Speaker 1>going park fire. That person not very San Francisco. No,

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<v Speaker 1>And apparently Mr Hagiwara was very beloved and the public

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<v Speaker 1>came to his aid and made sure that he got rehired. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>And it's a thank you. He made legit fortune cookies

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<v Speaker 1>like we know them, with little thank you notes inside

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<v Speaker 1>and give gave them out to people who supported him.

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<v Speaker 1>And like you said, this was nineteen o seven. So

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people say, well, there you go, bing

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<v Speaker 1>bang boom. That's when it started in the US. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>San Francisco is the home of the fortune cookie, and

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles says not so fast, everybody. Of course, not

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<v Speaker 1>only were we the ones who invented the fortune cookie,

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<v Speaker 1>it was actually a Cantonese immigrant from China who invented

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<v Speaker 1>the fortune cookie. No, not in nineteen o seven. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even believe your story, says l A. This happened

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<v Speaker 1>in there was a guy named David Jung, founder of

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<v Speaker 1>the Hong Kong Noodle Company, and he used to hand

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<v Speaker 1>out little fortune cookies with little Bible scripture um printed

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<v Speaker 1>on them as kind of a me up for people

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<v Speaker 1>for who were unemployed wandering around Los Angeles that he

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<v Speaker 1>did encounter. That's right. That's one version of the story.

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<v Speaker 1>The other is that he created them as little appetizers.

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<v Speaker 1>When people are waiting very Seinfeldian, waiting for their table

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<v Speaker 1>at the Chinese restaurant, he would hand them out, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>two people in line as a little appertif I guess

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<v Speaker 1>to hold you over. So there's a mock court that

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<v Speaker 1>was put together in three, the Court of Historical Reviews

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<v Speaker 1>and Appeals. I believe they ruled on other stuff previously,

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<v Speaker 1>but in three they took up the issue of them

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<v Speaker 1>the Fortune Cookie, and being a San Francisco mock court,

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<v Speaker 1>they ruled very clearly that San Francisco was the birthplace

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<v Speaker 1>of the fortune Cookie. That's right, Ellie and San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 1>they always have hated each other. They're always added over something,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, And I think San Diego is like what

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<v Speaker 1>about me? For San Diego, they're just down their surfing. Bro. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember we did that weird show there and that man

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<v Speaker 1>was church or something. Yeah, And for a little while

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<v Speaker 1>I was convinced that it was the church from um

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<v Speaker 1>Prince of Darkness, the John Carpenter movie. But I went

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<v Speaker 1>back and watched the movie and I was like, this

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<v Speaker 1>is in it. But it had the same vibe. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember two things about that show. I remember it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't really have a green room bathroom, so I was

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<v Speaker 1>just in there peeing in the urnals next to everyone

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<v Speaker 1>and they're like, oh, there's Chuck. It was like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's me. And uh, I remember there was a guy

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<v Speaker 1>on the front row fully filming the entire thing with

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<v Speaker 1>a video camera, and he looked mad about it like

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<v Speaker 1>he was he was like generating evidence or something. It

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<v Speaker 1>was weird, so strange. Uh, maybe we'll come back one day,

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<v Speaker 1>San Diego, if you'd get your act together. That's rights.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah. They were made for about forty years with chopsticks,

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<v Speaker 1>which that takes a lot of skill to to fuld

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<v Speaker 1>and make these things with chopsticks. I would think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a very Japanese way to make fortune cookies, and it

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<v Speaker 1>actually was the Japanese bakers in San Francisco who dominated

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<v Speaker 1>the business from the early twentieth century up until World

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<v Speaker 1>War Two, when they were forced out of the business

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<v Speaker 1>because they were also forced out of their homes after

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<v Speaker 1>Pearl harbor Um and the Japanese were uprooted and put

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<v Speaker 1>into internment camps. And one of the outcomes of that

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<v Speaker 1>was that they stopped making fortune cookies, and apparently this

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<v Speaker 1>created a vacuum that the Chinese immigrants in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States stepped in to fill. Very nice. Uh. Those first

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<v Speaker 1>fortune cookies in the US did have little proverbs and

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes scripture, but they started to get a little more

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<v Speaker 1>English and Americanized by the nineteen thirties, and he started

0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 1>to get some of these, like you know, Confucius says

0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 1>this kind of things in there. Uh, and then you know,

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 1>poor Richard's Almanac kind of stuff went in there, and

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.160
<v Speaker 1>then the lottery numbers started creeping in. Never been a

0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.720
<v Speaker 1>big fan of that with a little emoji smiley faces

0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.120
<v Speaker 1>and jokes and stuff like that. Not not a big

0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.480
<v Speaker 1>fan of that stuff. No, especially miley faces. Unless there's

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 1>some other message that makes a smiley face appropriate. I'm

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.199
<v Speaker 1>alright with that. Just give me a classic Fortune. So

0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 1>one of the great ironies of all this chuck is

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 1>that in the mid nineties, the Wanton Food Company, the

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.160
<v Speaker 1>world's largest maker of Fortune cookies, looked around and said,

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.440
<v Speaker 1>what market have we not penetrated. Europe loves these things,

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 1>America loves these things. What about China? China is gonna

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 1>love these two And it took off like a rocket

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.240
<v Speaker 1>right now, It did not at all, And they basically

0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.079
<v Speaker 1>said they're too American for us. And even though they

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 1>make four million and these things every day, to the

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.839
<v Speaker 1>tune of about three billion cookies every year, they didn't

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.839
<v Speaker 1>take off there. They didn't like them, they didn't want them. Yeah,

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 1>And I did that math, and apparently they have two factories,

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 1>because you'd be making about eight million a data to

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 1>come up with three billion. But who knows. I wouldn't

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 1>be surprised if that's how much they were making. I mean,

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.840
<v Speaker 1>those things are flowing like water here in the States.

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Fuzzy math, Yes it is. Um. So I want to

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 1>give a shout out to What's Cooking America l A,

0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Times Today, History and um Jennifer eight Lee who popped

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.679
<v Speaker 1>up and I Think our Chinese Food on Christmas episode.

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 1>She wrote The Fortune Cookie Chronicles adventures in the world

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 1>of Chinese Food. She did a lot of scholarly research

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 1>on fortune cookies recently, so hats off to her. Uh

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>and hats off to you guys for listening to this

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>episode of Short Stuff. Short Stuff is away now. Stuff

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 1>You Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

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