1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: M Taking a Walk Nashville. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 2: Hi, this is Sarah Harrelson, and you are listening to 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk Nashville today. On Taking a Walk Nashville, 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: I have with me Jeffrey Hymes. He's an American music 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: critic who has written for publications including, but not limited to, 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, Past, the Nashville Scene, and 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: has even written liner notes for albums. He has won 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: the Dems Taylor Award from the American Society of Composers, 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 2: Authors and Publishers four times, and he's here today to 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: talk about his latest book, Willie Nelson All the Albums. 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Taking a Walk Nashville with your hosts, singer 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: songwriter Sarah Harrelson. 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: Jeffrey, thank you so much for being on Taking a 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: Walk Nashville today, and you are joining us from Maryland today. Correct, correct, well, 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: thank you for being here. Can you just tell our 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: listeners on Taking a Walk Nashville what initially sparked your 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: love for music and initiated a career in music journalism. 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: Sure so, I'm old enough that the first record I 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 3: ever bought with my own money is I Want to 20 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: Hold Your Hand by the Beatles sixty three I've been 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 3: in love with music ever since, and I loved talking 22 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: to people about it and found if I could write 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: about it in print, then I would talk to a 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 3: lot of people about it. So, and you know, I've 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: always you know, I started with the Beatles, but I 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: curiousity led me in all different directions. People ask me 27 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: what kind of music I cover. I always tell them 28 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: everything from Dolly Parton to Ornette Coleman. 29 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: So I love it. Did you ever play music growing up? 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: I played piano, still not very well, but I do 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: write songs. Japan was a way of doing that. Well. 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: I can definitely tell your music and book lover, based 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: on all of the CDs and books behind you. But 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: besides writing for publications, you have written and published many books. 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: And your latest book, Willie Nelson All the Albums. It 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: analyzes all of Willie Nelson's massive catalog and in this 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: book you give each of his albums a grade. So 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: what inspired you to write a book about Willie Nelson's career. 39 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: Well, I've written a lot about him over my years 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: as a journalist. I've interviewed him several times into a 41 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: lot of his shows, and you know, when by publisher 42 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: asked me if I'd be interested in writing this book 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 3: about Willie Nelson. I said, well, yes, because I've already 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 3: written so much about him that I'm not starting from scratch. 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 3: He's one of my favorite artists. He's so fascinating the 46 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 3: blend of music that he uses, and there's been a 47 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 3: lot of books about his life. Willie has written at 48 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: at least three autobiographies. Joan nick Toski wrote a really 49 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: good biography of him. But what I wanted to do 50 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: was something different. I wanted to tell the story of 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: his life through his recordings because I always felt like, 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: you know, why are we interested in artists. It's not, 53 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 3: you know, because they got divorced or had a drinking problem. 54 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: You know, lots of people have got divorced and have 55 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: a drinking problem, but only a few people make really 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: amazing music at the level of a Willie Nelson, and 57 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: so I wanted to focus on that, on the music 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: he made. And as I said in the introduction, the 59 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: stories about Willie are always, you know, becoming more and 60 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: more elaborate as people tell them and retell them. But 61 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: the music that's on those records it's the same today 62 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: as it was in Night he's sixty two when he 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: made his first album. So let's go look at these records, 64 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: these recordings and listen to them and figure out what 65 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 3: that tells us about him as an artist and as 66 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: a purse. 67 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: And he has so much catalog to sort through. So 68 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: did it take you a long time to go really 69 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: in depth with all of his albums and grade them 70 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: and write about your take on his catalog. 71 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I went back and listened to all of them. 72 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: When I took on this assignment, I looked at what 73 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: I had on my shelves. It turned out I already 74 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: owned one hundred and twenty of them out of one 75 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty two that I wrote about. So I 76 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: was well along the way. And you listen to him again, 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 3: you realize that some of the assumptions perhaps were not corrected. 78 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: You know, your first suppressions are not always correct, you know. 79 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: And you see some of the records are a lots 80 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: better than you thought they were. Other records not as 81 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 3: good as if you thought they were. That's the sort 82 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: of perspective. Hopefully, I'm bringing it to the book. 83 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: And people can purchase this book anywhere they get their 84 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: books online. And it was released last month we talked 85 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: about how you are based in Maryland, but as a 86 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: music journalist, did you travel frequently and did you spend 87 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: a lot of time in Nashville as a music journalist. 88 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: I have. I never lived in Nashville, but I have 89 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: visited many times. I wrote for the Nashville Scene for 90 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: several years. I sort of ran their country music critics 91 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: poll that was very successful, run for twenty years. My 92 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 3: previous book to the Willie Nelson book, was published by 93 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: the Country Music Hall of Fame, and it's called In 94 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 3: Law Country How Emmy, Lou Harris, Roseanne Cash and their 95 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: circle fashioned a new kind of country music. And it's 96 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: about all the people Roseanne, Emmy, Lou, Rodney Crowll, Guy Clark, 97 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: Ricky Skaggs who all worked together. They wrote songs for 98 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: each other, they played on each other's albums, saying on 99 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: each other's albums, married each other, divorced each other, and 100 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: it's a very height unit that always fascinated me. Similar 101 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 3: to the Outlaws which came just before them, but different 102 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: because they were sort of instead of writing about you know, 103 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: loners on the road again, they were writing about marriage 104 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: and the sort of new kind of marriage that comes 105 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: with the baby boomer generation, where men and women are 106 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: more equal relationship to each other and all the sort 107 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: of the pluses and minuses that the challenges that presents, 108 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: and the rewards it offers. 109 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you describe this as an unnamed movement that 110 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: helped shape modern country music. Would you describe this as, 111 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: you know, it's a little bit different from outlaw country, 112 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: but we're writing about more storytelling, so it was a 113 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: little bit of a shift into Americano music. 114 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: Would you say, yeah, I think that the subject matter 115 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 3: is different because they're writing not about the independent loaner, 116 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: but more about the people trying to make a marriage 117 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: work and try to keep the family together. And you know, 118 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: obviously people in both camps admired each other quite a bit. 119 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: Billy recorded a lot of these songs that are in 120 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 3: Law Country, and they recorded Billy's songs, so that there 121 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 3: was a you know, there was definitely a relationship. But 122 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: I always thought this this movement needed a name to 123 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 3: be recognized it for what it was, and that's why 124 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: I sort of invented that name of in law Country. 125 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I love the name of it. Can people 126 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: find this book in the Country Music Hall of fame, like. 127 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: In the shop, in the gift shop on Amazon or 128 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: anywhere else that you buy books online. 129 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: Very cool. As you mentioned, you spent a lot of 130 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: time writing for the Nashville scene, even though maybe you 131 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: weren't living here. Did you still see how Nashville evolved 132 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: through the years writing for the Nashville scene and how 133 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: it has grown? 134 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: Of course, of course, you know when I first came 135 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: to Nashville in the late seventies, Broadway was skid row, 136 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 3: you know, all over down there were sort of like, 137 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: you know, the Winos and the the you know, stragglers. 138 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: And to watch how that has transformed itself into like 139 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 3: Disneyland today, there's been quite a thing to watch. And 140 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: I also think that to watch how Willie and Emmy 141 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 3: Lou and all the people around them sort of transformed 142 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 3: country music industry, expanding the possibility what you can do 143 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 3: in country music and sort of changing the rules. And 144 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 3: even though they didn't last forever, I think their influence 145 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: is still being felt today and people like Chris Stapleton 146 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 3: or Jason Isbel or Marco Price or Lean walmacleys people 147 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: are in the same spirit. So that it's not the 148 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: most popular music and country today or in Nashville, but 149 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: it's definitely a major part of it. 150 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And besides writing publications and books, you are involved 151 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 2: in other media platforms and outlets, such as your latest podcast, 152 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: Hard Rain and Pink Cadillacs, which is co hosted with 153 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: TV and film director Mark Finkelperl. Is some stock the 154 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: best place to listen to this podcast series or where 155 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 2: can they find your podcast? 156 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where we decided to use as our base. 157 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: It's both the podcast and also a blog that I 158 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: do music reviews and essays every once a week give 159 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: an issue. So there's been a way for me to 160 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 3: keep my hand in contemporary music as I'm writing these 161 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 3: books about. 162 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 2: Musical history, and I'm sure it's beyond country, probably covers 163 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: all genres on your podcast. 164 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: Yes, that's fair. We just you know, we just had 165 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 3: a podcast with Daryl Scott, who's in Nashville resident and 166 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 3: important figure, and James McMurtry from Texas and Kevin Gordon, 167 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: who's from Nashville. So since a lot of songwriters live 168 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: in Nashville, and since you know, one of my main 169 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: interest is in songwriting, whether it's Willie or Rodney Crowler, 170 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 3: whoever is that's what we're emphasizing in my podcast. 171 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite Willie Nelson album? 172 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, you know, at the end of the book book, 173 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: I list all one hundred and fifty two albums that 174 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 3: I discussed in the book and ranked them from number 175 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: one to number one hundred and fifty two, and the 176 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: top one was Phases and Stages, which he made an 177 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 3: Atlantic and seventy three. I think, you know, I love 178 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: that album. I think one of the those underrated albums 179 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 3: he did was Tougher than Leather, which was the nineteen 180 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: eighty two Raptors heart Attack. I think Yesterday's Wine, which 181 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 3: is one of his final RCAA albums. It's really good spirit. 182 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: There's a lot of good ones, they're not all good. 183 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 3: To figure out which is which, you have to buy 184 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: the book. 185 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, yeah, everyone can buy the new Willie 186 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: Nelson a book online. Can you talk a little bit 187 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 2: about the music footprint you have left in Baltimore and 188 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: the nonprofit you have started called The Roots Cafe. 189 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. The Roots Cafe is a live music series that 190 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 3: I started back in nineteen ninety one that does sort 191 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: of Americana acts. Recently, it was sort of a dance 192 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 3: kind of concert series and then more singer songwriters. Now, 193 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: you know, it's just a way to support that end 194 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 3: of the creative scene here at town. 195 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: Very cool. And although you're based in Maryland, you know 196 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: you've spent quite a bit of time in Nashville. And 197 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: I always like to ask my guest this question. Do 198 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: you have a favorite place you have taken a walk 199 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: in Nashville or maybe even a favorite memory from Nashville. 200 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I like Radner Lake, I like Richland 201 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: Creek over White Bridge Road. Yeah, And like there was 202 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: a time when I was seeing a lot of guy 203 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: Clark and there's a his basement room where he did 204 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: his songwriting and his guitar making is now in the 205 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: Country Music Hall of Fame, and I could tell you 206 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 3: it's just the same as it was when I was 207 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: down there talking to the guy. 208 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: So very cool. Well, thank you so much, Jeffrey for 209 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: being on taking a walk Nashville Today. Listeners can purchase 210 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 2: your latest book, Willie Nelson, all the albums wherever they 211 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: get their books, along with your past published books like 212 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: in Law Country. You can get that one right in 213 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: the Country Music Hall of Fame. And we look forward 214 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: to your next project, and thank you for taking a 215 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: virtual walk with me here in Nashville today, Jeffrey. 216 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 217 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with singer 218 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: songwriter Sarah Harrelson, and check out our other podcasts, Music, 219 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: Save Me, Comedy Save Me, and Taking a Walk. Available 220 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 221 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: your podcasts.