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Speaker 1: Hi there, how are you doing. It's the sixteenth of

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Speaker 1: May twenty twenty three. It's time for some instant reactions.

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Speaker 1: Some Well, the news broke, I guess a couple of

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Speaker 1: hours ago, a few hours ago at this point, but

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Speaker 1: we want to react to it as best we could.

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Speaker 1: A couple of introductions. Hi everyone, Welcome to Morning Combats.

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Speaker 1: I would say, supplementary, complimentary program. My name is Luke Thomas. I,

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Speaker 1: of course, just one half of your hosting duel. I'm

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Brian Campbell is being lazy today

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Speaker 1: and didn't want to contribute on his day off. Also

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Speaker 1: my day off, Brian, what do you think about that? Okay,

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Speaker 1: neither here nor there. We have a lot to get

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Speaker 1: to today. So here's what we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I know that Francis and Ghana is going to speak

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Speaker 1: later today, I believe with Aria Hawani on his program

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Speaker 1: on MMY Fighting. But the news is basically already out.

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Speaker 1: New York Times broke it first. We have some already

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Speaker 1: updated supplemental coverage which I want to get to. But

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Speaker 1: Francis and Ghanu has signed with the PFA that is

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Speaker 1: now official. At this point, I can only discuss the

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Speaker 1: details that have been made public, but they're already pretty big.

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Speaker 1: So here's the deal. You have to understand it in

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Speaker 1: three different parts. There are sort of three prongs to

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Speaker 1: the deal, as best I can tell. Number One, Francis

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Speaker 1: is going to be fighting exclusively in the PFLs what

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Speaker 1: they call pay per view Super Fight Division. Now, the

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Speaker 1: catch to that is that won't start until mid twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. I want to get to some of the

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Speaker 1: good things about this deal and some of the bad

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Speaker 1: things about this deal, but for now, let me sort

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Speaker 1: of stated the terms. So that is the first part.

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Speaker 1: He'll be fighting on pay per view beginning in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four for the PFL and what they call their

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Speaker 1: Super Fight Division. Number two, Francis it will now sit

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Speaker 1: as the first active fighter on what they call the

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Speaker 1: pfl's Global Advisory Board, which represents the interests of other

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Speaker 1: active fighters. I guess there are retired fighters on that board.

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Speaker 1: He would represent the first of them who's active, and

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Speaker 1: then last, but not least. And this is to be

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Speaker 1: actually one of the more interesting pieces. Francis will become

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Speaker 1: an equity a minority equity owner and chairman for PFL Africa.

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Speaker 1: You might recall, PFL launched a sort of subsidiary brand

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Speaker 1: on a more sort of regional level with PFL Europe.

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Speaker 1: Dan Hardy is heading those efforts. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be something similar to that with PFL Africa. We are

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Speaker 1: going to identify and sign talent ostensibly that I think

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Speaker 1: they want to start hosting events there. And then actually

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Speaker 1: PFL said something pretty interesting related to that, namely, they

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Speaker 1: want to have what they call the Champions League of MMA,

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Speaker 1: where the best in PFL Africa fight the best I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming of what will eventually be PFL Asia, PFL Europe

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Speaker 1: and so on, and then there would be some kind

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Speaker 1: of tournament. I allow. What you see the Champions League,

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Speaker 1: of course is the best club teams in Europe who

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Speaker 1: play all right, There's a lot to get to, so welcome.

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Speaker 1: That's the big three piece overview of it. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about each of those deals. What it says

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Speaker 1: about francis, what it says about UFC, what it says

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Speaker 1: about PFL as well, for better or for worse, and

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Speaker 1: I do think there's both of those to be had here. First,

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Speaker 1: let's do this thumbs up on the video. If you're here,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. Hit that subscribe button. If you're here,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. Let's do this part. The UF

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Speaker 1: excuse me. The PFL put out a promotional asset kind

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Speaker 1: of announcing this deal with Francis rubbing elbows with essentially

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Speaker 1: PFL brass and kind of this sort of like announcement

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Speaker 1: video about how big it is and why it's important.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that from their perspective, and

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Speaker 1: then I want to show you what we know about

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Speaker 1: this deal. Hit it, Mikey. No one has ever been

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Speaker 1: in his position. Heavyweight champ walks away. We don't know

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Speaker 1: the end result. He could sign tomorrow for the most

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Speaker 1: money anybody's ever signed for in fighting history. Franston Gun

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Speaker 1: who's the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, and so

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Speaker 1: we'll see what he does.

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Speaker 2: I choose the PFL out of everyone in order to

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Speaker 2: change their game of enemy. For whoever feel ready and

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Speaker 2: the patterest on the planet, I'll be fighting in the

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Speaker 2: Reperview Super five Division. He has always been my goal

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Speaker 2: to control my own destiny. When somebody feel respect, you

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Speaker 2: get the best out of the person. The reason why

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Speaker 2: I sign with the PFOW is because of their willing

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Speaker 2: to develop the sport. Most importantly in Africa, I stand

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Speaker 2: for my people, for my community. I fight for them

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Speaker 2: and to get something like this to bring back home

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Speaker 2: is like a huge accomplishment along with the PFIL now

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Speaker 2: that I'm in the position to speak to fight for

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Speaker 2: those who doesn't have a voice, because at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day is fire first fighter is the one

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Speaker 2: doing the sport. At the end of every accomplishment, there's

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Speaker 2: another challenge. That's how you build your own legacy.

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Speaker 1: All right. By the way, I like the little predator

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Speaker 1: trilling that they put at the end of his things.

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Speaker 1: That's actually pretty cool. But you get the idea at home,

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Speaker 1: we pull this back up here, okay, all right, so

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Speaker 1: broad overview, right, he's going to sit on the global

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Speaker 1: Advisory Board, a minority equity owner and chairman of PFL Africa,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to fight in the pfl's pay per

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Speaker 1: view division. So here's what I want to know from

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Speaker 1: you before we move forward in the comments. Right now,

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Speaker 1: give me a sense about how you feel about this deal.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we don't know everything. In fact, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot we don't know, but it's at least worth getting

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Speaker 1: your sense of things. Are you happy with this. Are

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Speaker 1: you satisfied or are you simply saying I don't really

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Speaker 1: know enough yet. I feel strongly this way, I feel

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Speaker 1: badly this way. You tell me right now, what is

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Speaker 1: your sense about this deal, this arrangement, how it makes

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Speaker 1: you feel as a fan. Of course, your voices is important.

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Speaker 1: That's who ultimately the PFL is trying to please. So

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Speaker 1: let me know what you think about this in the comments. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go over a few extra details if we can.

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Speaker 1: I've got four links here, like three links up here.

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Speaker 1: I've got the press release itself. I've got an article

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Speaker 1: from John Nash and Bloody Elbow which gives some key details.

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Speaker 1: And then of course the New York Times report that

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Speaker 1: initially broke the story to begin with, if we can

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Speaker 1: put that up here. I'm Mikey. I want to show

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Speaker 1: you something here. Let's go first through this one as

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Speaker 1: we kill off these ads, by the way, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Bloody Elbow, just leaning into that stuff. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: what I'm by the way, just the ads, just the

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Speaker 1: worst ads ever. Heret me blow this up a little

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Speaker 1: bit so you can see it. There we go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna try and keep that out all right,

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Speaker 1: This I thought was super super interesting. So this is

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Speaker 1: what John Nash calls some noteworthy additional features of Francis

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Speaker 1: and Ganu's deal. I'm gonna read you what he has.

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Speaker 1: It's for only two or three fights, so at max

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Speaker 1: it's a three fight deal. Number two guarantees a high

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Speaker 1: seven f your purse for each fight. Three a split

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Speaker 1: of the events net profits, So if they make something

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Speaker 1: off the gate, if they make something off concessions, if

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Speaker 1: they make something off whatever, he gets a check from that,

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Speaker 1: as well as signing bonus or salary to serve as

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Speaker 1: a brand ambassador for the PFL. So even when he's

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Speaker 1: not fighting, he's either getting paid on a regular basis

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Speaker 1: or he got paid upfront to do that work independent

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Speaker 1: of anything else. Number five the right to have his

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Speaker 1: own sponsors in the cage. One only knows how lucrative

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Speaker 1: that could be. Six, non exclusive with regards to boxing,

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Speaker 1: so he can box no problem if he wants seven,

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Speaker 1: no champions clause or other extensions. And then last but

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Speaker 1: not least, and I think this is pretty interesting, a

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Speaker 1: minimum salary possibly as high as one million for his opponents.

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Speaker 1: Now there's one extra detail that I want to read

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Speaker 1: here very quickly that John Nash provided me saying this

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Speaker 1: is this is what he writes. Quote. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read it out loud. It is therefore very likely that

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Speaker 1: this UFC offer would have paid more over those three

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Speaker 1: fights than his new PFL deal will, as the Jones

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Speaker 1: fight would have potentially paid him more than ten million ONTs.

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Speaker 1: His pay per view bonus was added and sold as

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Speaker 1: well as most people industry assume it would. That is,

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Speaker 1: it would have paid more as long as he fought

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Speaker 1: Jones and did not lose the title during those three fights.

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Speaker 1: For a three fight deal, right, so we'd have to

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Speaker 1: go undefeated, he would make more in that case. However,

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Speaker 1: what John Nash notes is quote. What the UFC contract

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Speaker 1: did not do is allow for ngan Whu to box

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Speaker 1: if the opportunity presented itself, nor would it allow him

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Speaker 1: to cultivate his own sponsors by allowing him to promote

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Speaker 1: them in the cage. It also contained the champions clause

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Speaker 1: that would have added more fights to the deal if

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Speaker 1: he had retained the title. The PFL deal clearly offers

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Speaker 1: more of the freedom and protections that ngan Whu has

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Speaker 1: been asking for himself. Okay, so That's something I want

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Speaker 1: you guys to know. Here is the look. The look

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Speaker 1: at the website for the PFL. They've got all this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they blew it out the frame here, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, to get everyone ready for this. They're calling

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Speaker 1: it the most expansive and valuable athletes signing in MMA history.

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Speaker 1: You guys know the other parts, We've kind of already

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Speaker 1: mentioned them. This is what they say about. The PFL

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Speaker 1: Global Advisory Board has been established for the league to

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Speaker 1: closely corroborate with the greatest athletes and minds in the

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Speaker 1: sport of MMA to ensure the PFL states focused on

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Speaker 1: its fighters first mission, combined with recruiting and developing future

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Speaker 1: global champions. As part of the strategic partnership with the

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Speaker 1: PFL and gond and will serve in a leadership role

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Speaker 1: on the PFO Global Advisory Board, making them the first

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Speaker 1: active fighter to serve on the board and represent fighters interests.

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Speaker 1: And of course they go on to say something here

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Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of interesting. This I thought

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Speaker 1: was cool. PFL has an expansive plan to become the

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Speaker 1: first true global league in sports, with international regional leagues

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Speaker 1: spanning all continents. At PFL founder and Chairman Don Davis.

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Speaker 1: PFL Europe's launch in twenty twenty three has been a

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Speaker 1: huge success, and we will have more PFL international leagues

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Speaker 1: operating by twenty twenty six to form the first ever

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Speaker 1: Champions League of MMA, to spark national pride and determine

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Speaker 1: the actual best in the world via PFL sports season

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Speaker 1: format of win and advance meritocracy. And then it goes

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Speaker 1: on from there. This is the official site, same thing.

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Speaker 1: There's the doom base signing. This is the open first

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Speaker 1: page here, I wonder if more information? What do you

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Speaker 1: get there? Let's see, I'm not signing her for the newsletter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, thanks. And then, last, but not least, here

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Speaker 1: is the New York Times article which features Francis right

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Speaker 1: here in the cage, written by Emmanuel Morgan, who covers

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Speaker 1: MMA and NFL for the New York Times. I've met

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Speaker 1: this gentleman. He is a great reporter, a smart guy.

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Speaker 1: And this is sort of like. He doesn't cover a

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Speaker 1: ton of MMA for the New York Times. I think

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Speaker 1: most of his work by far as NFL. But if

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Speaker 1: they have a combat sports reporter, and they do, of

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Speaker 1: course it's this guy. So that if you don't know

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Speaker 1: who he is. Emmanuel Morgan is the guy you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: And uh, there's just a couple of quotes in here

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Speaker 1: that I thought was kind of interesting that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to go through if we can. These past few months,

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Speaker 1: Francis says, have been an interesting time to understand and

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Speaker 1: see the landscape. But I'm very excited about this deally

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Speaker 1: PFL because it showed what I was expecting. They didn't

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Speaker 1: just show up as a promotion looking for a fighter,

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Speaker 1: but really came as a partner that sees more value

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Speaker 1: in you as a person. Of course, they mentioned Jake

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Speaker 1: Paul has signed with PFL as well. They mentioned Cayla

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Speaker 1: Harrison a number of times in this article, which is

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Speaker 1: interesting because I don't think she's long for this organization,

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Speaker 1: but we shall see. They quote Dana saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: Francis wanted lesser competition. But of note, they didn't get

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Speaker 1: a fresh quote from Dana. I don't know if there

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Speaker 1: were UFC refused to speak or they didn't ask them,

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Speaker 1: but they only had an old quote they By the way,

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times, fighters earned less than twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of total revenue. Talking about the UFC, which includes

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Speaker 1: pay per view sales and other sources of cash flow

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Speaker 1: like ticket sales and sponsorships. In the NFL where athletes

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Speaker 1: have unionized, for example, players received roughly fifty percent of

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Speaker 1: league revenue. If you're wondering why they put this story

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times, this is why. Is because

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Speaker 1: they get information like this to the public, to opinion leaders.

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Speaker 1: That's what they call the people who read the New

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Speaker 1: York Times. Whether you like it or not, they're called

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Speaker 1: opinion leaders. They want to get this information out in

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Speaker 1: front of them. So that's part of the reason why

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Speaker 1: it got leaked to or given to the New York

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Speaker 1: Times as it did. They mentioned one championship here. I

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Speaker 1: want to point something out here and Gan who said

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Speaker 1: he engaged in advanced talks with only one other promotion,

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Speaker 1: the Singapore based One Championship, though executives were Bare Knuckle Championship,

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Speaker 1: and Bellatore said they had exploitatory conversations with Ngan. Whut

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing that Singapore based one Championship was ahead of

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Speaker 1: BKFC and Bellatore, that's kind of I guess it's not surprising.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that in just a second. And he says,

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Speaker 1: you know this was more than just a matter of

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Speaker 1: financial conser iterations. And then of course Murray from the

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Speaker 1: PFL says, this is not an athlete deal. Francis as

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Speaker 1: an icon of sport. Blah blah blah. We're in a business together. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I believe there's not much more. Oh, here we go,

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Speaker 1: so listen to this for the PFL Africa thing. And

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Speaker 1: God who said he saw Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal in South

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Speaker 1: Africa as early targets for PFL Africa, with events hoping

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Speaker 1: to take place in twenty twenty five. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: he said he would like to have a boxing match

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Speaker 1: this year before fighting again in mixed martial arts. They

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Speaker 1: talk about the pay per view prices and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: And then, last but not least, he says, the fill

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Speaker 1: up when people don't understand you what you're doing. Obviously

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of criticism, but when you're confident and

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Speaker 1: certain of what you're doing and where you're going and

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Speaker 1: aware of achievement, you just have to be patient and

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Speaker 1: welcome the time everybody sees it. Okay, that's enough, my key.

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Speaker 1: You get the idea. This is a broad overview of

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Speaker 1: the information that we have at this point, So how

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Speaker 1: do I feel about it? Again, I've asked you to

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Speaker 1: give information how you feel about it in the comments

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Speaker 1: or you can of course hit us up on social media.

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Speaker 1: This is what I think about it. This is clearly

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Speaker 1: an excellent deal for Francis, as John Nash points out

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Speaker 1: the way the pay per view structure and pay system

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Speaker 1: works in the UFC, had he fought Jones and won,

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Speaker 1: and then of course had two more fights and won them,

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Speaker 1: yes he would make more money. So in terms of

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Speaker 1: the total possible amount allotted on the fight pay, it's

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Speaker 1: not fair to say that the PFO contract is the

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Speaker 1: most lucrative. Appears that that is not the case. However,

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Speaker 1: it still is quite lucrative. It's at least comparable or

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Speaker 1: at least in the same ballpark from what we know.

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Speaker 1: And more to the point, because he can make money

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Speaker 1: off sponsorships, and he's going to be having a signing bonus,

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Speaker 1: potentially a salary, and other mechanisms of earning event pay

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Speaker 1: based on shared revenue, it's possible he could end up

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Speaker 1: making a pretty comparable amount, and maybe in total when

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Speaker 1: you count sponsorships and everything else, maybe even more in

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Speaker 1: the end, but again it would be roughly the same

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Speaker 1: or at least you know, these are roughly comparable deals

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Speaker 1: when it comes to that. But of course there's so

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Speaker 1: much more involved in here. He can go now box.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have a champion's clause, he doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: long term deal. He's got an enormous amount of flexibility.

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Speaker 1: Let me state this out right, A two or three

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Speaker 1: five deal that offers you that in MMA is basically

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Speaker 1: unheard of. I mean, Brock's probably gotten something like that,

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Speaker 1: and even really not that not that much money plus

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Speaker 1: that much flexibility plus that much I'm going to call

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Speaker 1: it front office slash corporate involvement, integration and otherwise having

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Speaker 1: a say, this contract is highly unique, frankly historic in

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Speaker 1: certain ways, and for francis a clear home run. I

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Speaker 1: just it would be hard to imagine. I don't think

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Speaker 1: Beltore could have given him an offer like this. Once

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Speaker 1: you see now what PFL is laying out, I think

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Speaker 1: it's fair to say one more time BKFS could never

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Speaker 1: have afforded him. I think one could have afforded him

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Speaker 1: in certain ways, but just given what he wants to do,

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Speaker 1: it looks like I don't know if one would have

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Speaker 1: been the right partner, right, so for a couple of reasons,

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Speaker 1: they probably could have given him a pretty big purse.

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Speaker 1: I think that part is probably true. But if you

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Speaker 1: just look at what PFL is going to do in

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Speaker 1: terms of this broader international outreach, how much of that

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Speaker 1: is like francis wagging the dog. I don't really know,

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Speaker 1: but you know, this idea of we're going to PFOL

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Speaker 1: Europe and we're going to open up all these other

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Speaker 1: markets and we're going to have PFL Africa up and

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Speaker 1: running by twenty twenty five, that was never going to

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Speaker 1: be on one Championships radar, And I think for those

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Speaker 1: reasons it would be a problem. Who knows what other

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Speaker 1: flexible terms about your opponent getting another million dollars on

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Speaker 1: top of it, about you know again, exclusivity and he

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Speaker 1: can box and all this other stuff. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: know what one would have been able to do in

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Speaker 1: that space. But again, just talking about pay per view

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Speaker 1: in the United States, PFL has certainly got its work

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Speaker 1: cut out for it, but it's even that far ahead

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Speaker 1: of one in this market. So that is a place

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Speaker 1: that could given him a competitive wage, But otherwise not

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Speaker 1: the other things he was looking for. So this is

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Speaker 1: a for Francis. For Francis, this is a grand slam.

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Speaker 1: This is about as good as it's gonna get. This

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Speaker 1: is about as good as I've ever seen it. Yet

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Speaker 1: You're just not gonna get that much money, that much,

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Speaker 1: say that much flexibility, all in the same deal. In MMA.

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Speaker 1: It's extremely unheard of. They've given him something very very

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Speaker 1: very rare, if by itself almost anomalist to begin with,

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Speaker 1: in the history of MMA. I think you probably Connor

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Speaker 1: probably makes more. I'm sure he makes more on the upside,

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Speaker 1: But the question is does he have the same kind

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Speaker 1: of flexibility and whatnot? Again, even Connor is a special case,

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Speaker 1: but you guys know what I mean. Does John Jones

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Speaker 1: have a contract with this kind of flexibility? He does not.

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Speaker 1: Even Connor doesn't have this kind of flexibility. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: so for Francis, I think this is clearly a home run.

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Speaker 1: But I've got definitely some questions that deserve to be asked.

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Speaker 1: I think in the aftermath of something like this, people

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Speaker 1: like me who are like, wait a second, let's see

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Speaker 1: what the deal looks like before we can even really

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Speaker 1: make some comments about it. Here, we now have some

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Speaker 1: information so we can, but we're not obligated to give

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Speaker 1: nothing but positive press. I think there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of positive press here that should be noted, but not

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Speaker 1: all of it. I want to say something first though,

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Speaker 1: before I get to some of the things that give

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Speaker 1: me some pause. We should have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a conversation about the PFL boy. They're going for it.

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Speaker 1: They're going for it. I have been a skeptic. I've

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Speaker 1: been a skeptic of any player outside of the UFC

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Speaker 1: in the current space, just by virtue of how dominant

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Speaker 1: the market position is for UFC. And it should be

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Speaker 1: clear as good as this deal is for Francis, and

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Speaker 1: it is good, it is by no means a guarantee

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Speaker 1: of success for PFL. For Francis, it depends what he

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Speaker 1: really wants and really gets out of it. That's harder

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Speaker 1: to say, but there are plenty of ways this doesn't

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Speaker 1: go well for PFL. They are risking at big time.

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Speaker 1: I'll come back to that in a second. But of

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Speaker 1: all the promotions out there right now, they're really going

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Speaker 1: for it and buying this news they have today with

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Speaker 1: one signing Francis, that's huge as a recruitment tool at

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Speaker 1: an advertisement about what they can offer. Number two, everyone's

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Speaker 1: making a big deal about Francis guaranteeing his opponents get

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Speaker 1: one million dollars or more, some kind of high guaranteed

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Speaker 1: floor to get paid. A lot of people will being like, wow,

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Speaker 1: Francis is a good guy. He might be, but that's

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Speaker 1: a recruitment tool. That's a recruitment tool. That's not just saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna pay Francis a lot and then his opponents

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Speaker 1: can go fuck off. It's we've got Francis and if

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Speaker 1: you fight them over here, you're probably gonna make a

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Speaker 1: lot more money than you would. I mean, you should

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Speaker 1: really think about this. How many fighters in UFC history

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Speaker 1: have ever gotten a paid for a single bout one

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Speaker 1: million dollars or more. It's got to be an infintesicly

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Speaker 1: small amount, right, Some have maybe accrued that over the

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Speaker 1: course of two or three fights, but in one fight,

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Speaker 1: who got a million dollar check or more? It's not

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Speaker 1: many people in the history of the support it's not many.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's probably a lot of heavyweight fighters

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Speaker 1: who don't have much of a profile might be looking

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Speaker 1: at this and saying to themselves, yeah, I could make

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Speaker 1: a lot more money over there than I would hear,

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Speaker 1: and they might like their chances of even winning or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But that's a recruitment tool, is what that is. Now

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Speaker 1: that may not work either, but I just want to

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Speaker 1: point out something. Combine this news with signing Francis advertising

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Speaker 1: that his opponents are going to get paid a million

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Speaker 1: or more or around that, and then on top of

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Speaker 1: it this news that has kind of gone quietly away,

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Speaker 1: but my understanding is still relevant. PFL trying to buy Bellator, Folks,

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Speaker 1: they are going for it. They are going for it.

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Speaker 1: Here's the reality of the PFL situation. And again, like

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Speaker 1: I remember when Nate Diaz was getting out, I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way he signs with PFL. And I'm still

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Speaker 1: skeptical of that, although depending on how things go with

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Speaker 1: Jake Paul, because Jake Paul is signed to the PFL,

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Speaker 1: perhaps it is possible that his fortunes change on the

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Speaker 1: other side or we will see. But I just didn't

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Speaker 1: see them as a place because I knew they could

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Speaker 1: get the money, but I didn't think they would ever

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Speaker 1: roll out the red carpet for someone like this or

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Speaker 1: or beyond that there would be a meaningful way to

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Speaker 1: tip over the apple cart for his respective divisions, which

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Speaker 1: I still think is largely the case over there, but

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Speaker 1: maybe less so true for heavy weight. We shall see.

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Speaker 1: But they have turned out to be quite a good home,

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Speaker 1: I think for what Francis wants and what Francis is

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Speaker 1: trying to do, and if they can buy Bellator, they

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Speaker 1: are cooking with gas at that point. PFL in the

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Speaker 1: way in which they have constructed their business with this

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Speaker 1: tournament system. Everyone makes it out to be, Oh, what's

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Speaker 1: their calling card? It's the tournament system, because it's sure

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Speaker 1: as hell, isn't the Smart Cage. The Smart Cage didn't

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Speaker 1: do this deal. I mean, you know, if the Smart

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Speaker 1: Cage did the deal, then you know we would have

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Speaker 1: to have some questions asked. But you know, I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really involved in the deal, so I don't

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Speaker 1: really know how smart it is. But what I want

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Speaker 1: to say was, if they could sign Bellator or they

429
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: could get access to their roster, and then you can

430
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,239
Speaker 1: combine that with PFL, and then you'd have sort of

431
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: like this more not totally obviously, but more Asian based

432
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: premiere outside of the UFC promotion, with one sort of

433
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: competing against a more different side of the world kind

434
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: of concentration focus. With PFL combining with Belltour's roster, I

435
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: think that would be a dynamic competition outside of the UFC,

436
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: which would create much more interesting and genuine alternatives for

437
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: the marketplace. Now, these are a lot of ifs, and

438
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: none of them are guaranteed, but I just want to

439
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,719
Speaker 1: point out, like the way to look at this, it

440
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: seems to me, is PFL doing the tournament thing and

441
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: just going on ESPN plus that is a path to nowhere.

442
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: They cannot stay in business doing it this way. If

443
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 1: you want to stay in business, you have to have

444
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: access to the pay per view side of the business,

445
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: and you have to have access to the more premiere

446
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: side of it. Francis in theory is at least one

447
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: step in that pretty big one, but one step in

448
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: that direction to get to that end of the marketplace

449
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: that can actually generate long term sustainable revenue. Now, as

450
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: I have said before, I am skeptical that in a

451
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: world where the PF excuse me, where the UFC is,

452
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: in my judgment and the judgment of other economists, not all,

453
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: but many a monopsoity just another version of a monopoly

454
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 1: instead of you know, just one seller, one buyer, And

455
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: as long as that is the case, I think any promotion,

456
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: even if PFL were to able to be able to

457
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: acquire a bellator and then compete against one, even in

458
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: that equation, I don't know exactly how much the rest

459
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: of MMA can succeed. Obviously certain versions of it can,

460
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: but I mean, just outside the UFC, how big is

461
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: that market and what does it have to look like

462
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: to thrive in a world where the UFC has control

463
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: of almost eighty percent of the world's talent and makes

464
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: ninety percent of every dollar earned in the industry. There's

465
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: a broad question here about even if francis Is does

466
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: well for them on pay per view, and even if

467
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: he's able to recruit a couple of interesting heavyweights along

468
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: the way to make for some fun fights, as long

469
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: as the UFC has most of the talent under lock

470
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: and key, and they have changed their contracts again to

471
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: keep guys under long terms, not as long as they

472
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: once were, but certainly not as good as they had

473
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: been up until twenty seventeen or so, that is going

474
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: to be difficult. Francis is a good, great, amazing signing

475
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: for them, and he might be able to pull a

476
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: couple of interesting guys onto the pfl's roster in service

477
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: of a big paycheck that could make for fun and

478
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: dynamic content. That's by no means guaranteed. But I just

479
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: want to point out Francis by himself can't solve the ufcs,

480
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: excuse me pfl's problems. To really make a sustainable run

481
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: going big in the way that they are, they have

482
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: to recruit a fair number. I don't know exactly what

483
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: that would be, but I'm gonna guess bare minimum, you know,

484
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: eight to ten reliable maybe six to eight reliable figures

485
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: who could draw on pay per view in a noticeable

486
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: full way. Now, can Jake Paul do that? I think

487
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: it depends on the audience. Jake Paul does bigger numbers

488
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: than MMA fans realize, so that would be interesting to

489
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: see if he can pull that crossover audience in Francis.

490
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see. But they've got you see what

491
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like Francis Is a is a noteworthy

492
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: key Gemstone edition, but the Infinity Gauntlet doesn't work unless

493
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: you get all all the stones right. He's got the timestone,

494
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: and BFL has the timestone, and they've got the I

495
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: don't know whatever the the other the other the other stones.

496
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: I don't forget their names at this point, but you

497
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: get what I'm saying. It only it makes you powerful,

498
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really work for what you want it

499
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: to do unless you've got all of them together. They

500
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: don't have that, and there's really no guarantee that they're

501
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: going to get that, even with Francis, And in fact,

502
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: what could end up happening is they signed Francis to

503
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: this deal and they put out this advertisement, but they

504
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: for one reason or the other, they can't get someone

505
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: to come over to that aisle. The fights themselves are

506
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: not that great or big or interesting, and this all

507
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: goes for naught, like it actually just blows up right

508
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: where it is, and it doesn't lead to anything that

509
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: is absolutely on the table as well, because here's one

510
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: thing you should expect. You've been remember this, but I

511
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: distinctly remember when Cowboy SERRONI and TJ. Dillashaw, and I

512
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: think Kane Velaskez and Tim Kennedy and George Saint Pierre,

513
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: they all had that mma, the MM triple A with

514
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: Jorn Rebney, and after that it was sort of noted

515
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: that even between fights, I think TJ and SERRONI got

516
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: new contracts in between, and you saw the support for

517
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I mean, it kind of blew

518
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: U pretty quickly anyway. But the point I'm trying to

519
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: make is the UFC, I think, to make it worth

520
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: their while, gave them a little bit more money. Uh

521
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: and coincidentally, they didn't have any participation in this effort anymore.

522
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: I bring this all up to say it is possible

523
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: that by virtue of what Francis is doing, if they

524
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: do have guys who are close to being done with

525
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: their deals or working, they may offer them more lucrative

526
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: terms than they otherwise would have to keep them under

527
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: lock and key. That is possible, in which case this

528
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: doesn't work for Francis either, Like this is a great

529
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: contract for Francis, but that it guarantees that it works.

530
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: All they did today was they got It's not all

531
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: they signed an enormously important figure, but the rest of

532
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: that is an advertisement for the future of what could be,

533
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: not what will be, and it requires a certain amount

534
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: of industry compliance that they can't manufacture or guarantee in

535
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: order to reach that goal, a lot of which is

536
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: going to be difficult to come by. I mean, I

537
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: just think we should be realistic about that, right So,

538
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: but PFL man, make no mistake, they are absolutely going big, hardcore.

539
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: They are trying to be the unequivocal default destination for

540
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: premier talent who don't end up in UFC, no question

541
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 1: about it. That's what they're looking to do. And then

542
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: to take some of that talent away from UFC. That's

543
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: they are going for it in the way that will

544
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: either expedite their growth and their future or expedite their

545
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: decline because they're having to raise substantial amounts of money

546
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: to get to this point, you know. So that's another

547
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: thing to sort of consider as well. Well. Another thing

548
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: I think it's worth considering is a part of the

549
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: deal that I guess I just don't understand is they're

550
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: saying that Francis is gonna be on this board and

551
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: a minority owner in PFL and then this or see

552
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: this global advisory board and then he's gonna be a

553
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: minority owner and then chairman of PFL Africa. It's like, okay,

554
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: but if the deal is only for two fights and

555
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: he wins both of them, or he even say loses them.

556
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: But what my point being is what happens when that

557
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: deal is over? Now I get the ownership minority stake

558
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: in PFL Africa. That doesn't change. But is he still

559
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: going to be chairman of the PFL Africa if he

560
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: is gone back over to UFC like him, I know

561
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: we are sort of saying he would never return to UFC.

562
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out. It'd be

563
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: foolish to do so. Or even if he goes to Belator,

564
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: or even if he goes to one or something, does

565
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: that what happens with that? Also the Global Strategic Board

566
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: what again, Like he's an active fighter on the on

567
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: on the thing. If does that just go away? If

568
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: he's not on the right, I'm guessing he just goes

569
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: away if he's not on the roster anymore. Also, like,

570
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: what does that board really do? What kind of binding

571
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: power does it have? I mean, I know it sounds

572
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: nice for him to be on there. I'm not declaring

573
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: to you that it's not nice. I want to be clear.

574
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm only I'm just genuinely asking the question. I don't

575
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: know what it's broad and actual contractual authority is in

576
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: situations like this that that remains to be seen. So

577
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool that they've integrated him in this

578
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: way where like, hey, we're gonna make you part of

579
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: this equation. But I don't really know what that means

580
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: exactly in terms of when they say something, when they

581
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: say jumped, who says how high? I don't really get.

582
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what the answer is to that.

583
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: I guess we'll have to see in time. Also, you

584
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: see from that from that video we played at the

585
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: top of the instant reaction. Like one thing that stands

586
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: out about this deal, and you see this in boxing

587
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: all the time, is they don't approach deals like I'm

588
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: the promotion, I'm going to sign a fighter. They say, hey,

589
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: I'm a partner, I'm looking for another partner, let's be

590
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: partners together. So for example, you'll often see that, like

591
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: for example Canelo's mandatory that he just had with John

592
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: Ryder and Guadalajara, Mexico. There it's really it's a matchroom

593
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: kind of event, but they'll co promote with Canelo Promotions,

594
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: so he actually not only gets a check as a promoter,

595
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: but it makes it makes the fighter feel like, hey,

596
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: we're going to find a way to enhance your revenue,

597
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: but also like we are on equal footing, not I'm

598
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: up here, you're down there. I think Francis was looking

599
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: for a deal that just mimicked what we saw in

600
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: boxing in terms of that a side relationship with promoters.

601
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: So you know Jervonte Davis has a relationship, uh well

602
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: with Al Hayman, but you know with all of the

603
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: various parties in which he does fights with, and you

604
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: saw with obviously Ray, he was the A side. Any

605
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: top A side gets treated like that where they get

606
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: a promotional company, they also get a check for that,

607
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: and they get treated as we are equals, not you know,

608
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: you're just a plumber. I'm hiring to do work for me.

609
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: And what Francis wanted was the respect that comes with that.

610
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: I think this deal, at least in theory, seems to

611
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: satisfy a lot of those conditions. I will say, the

612
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: thing that gives me the most pause about this deal,

613
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: and there are many wonderful things about it, but the

614
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: thing that concerns me most, I guess will be twofold one.

615
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: He doesn't fight in MMA until twenty twenty four. I

616
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: gotta say that feels not optimal. Not optimal. If he

617
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: ends up getting a boxing fight this year, that is huge.

618
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean that by itself would make leaving the UFC worthwhile,

619
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: to say nothing of getting a boxing fight and then

620
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: walking into this MMA deal. I mean, you hit the lottery,

621
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: hit the jackpond. He might do that. All I can

622
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: say is on the boxing side, there's not a lot

623
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: of discussion about this. Like the heavyweights, we're all trying

624
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: to make interesting fights. So there was a potential between

625
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: Fury and Usik fell apart, and then there was you know,

626
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: you hear you've seen Joshua He's gonna fight Wilder in December.

627
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: We haven't heard anything about that. More than that. There

628
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: was a time where Wilder was going to fight Ruiz.

629
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: That kind of fell apart, And so there's really some

630
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: discussion now about the Saudi Arabian thing that they could

631
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: make happen, but we don't really like that seems to

632
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: me very high in the sky. And even if that

633
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: does happen, it doesn't include Francis, Like, no, those iterations

634
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: include him. So I don't really know what to make

635
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: of Francis' fortunes in terms of securing a boxing fight

636
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, when he first was kind of

637
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: getting out of the UFC and then linking up with Fury,

638
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: it seemed much more possible. There have been discussions I

639
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: know about him potentially fighting Wilder. It's not to say

640
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: I want to be clear about this. I'm not saying

641
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: that there's not interest in those not merely from the fans,

642
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: but from the actual people who pull the levers of

643
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: the sport of boxing. There is. What I'm saying to

644
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: you is I don't know if it happens this year.

645
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: It might. It just appears at the moment very unclear.

646
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: And with that, it could work out really well for

647
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: him in twenty twenty three on the boxing side, it

648
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: could work out really poorly for him on the boxing side. Meanwhile,

649
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: delaying things till twenty twenty four, so obviously that would

650
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: be one a two year absence. Let's see when he

651
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: would come back. So let's look up his just to

652
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: be clear about the dates here. So he's he'll turn

653
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: thirty seven in September. He with be thirty seven, so

654
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: that's not too old. That's not too old. His last

655
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: fight against Cyril Gone was in January of twenty twenty two,

656
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're all. I mean, you know you're gonna

657
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: be gone two and a half years potentially. That seems

658
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: unwise to me. Now again, if Francis is baking it

659
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: into his contract that he wants the space to get

660
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: the fight in twenty twenty three, what he might be

661
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: saying is, you know, I don't know if I'm going

662
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: to get it either, but that's too big an opportunity

663
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: to pass up By focusing on MMA, Like, there's probably

664
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons why he wanted to include it

665
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: as a carve out. All I'm saying is a two

666
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: and a half year MMA absence, assuming he doesn't get

667
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: the boxing, fire art, combat sports absence. I won't call

668
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: that a death sentence. I don't think that's true, but

669
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: that comes with a lot of challenges about getting the

670
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: fan based enthusiastic about your return. In certain ways, absence

671
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: makes the heart grow fonder. But in this case, what

672
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: he's trying to do is show proof of concept, like

673
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: I can leave the UFC and I can still do

674
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: these things, and I think part of doing that and

675
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: making this departure is not acting hastily, but at striking

676
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: while the iron is hot. So I think if he

677
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: gets the boxing fight, it'll probably be okay in the end.

678
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: If he doesn't, and then he risks being gone more

679
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: than two years two years of by the way, you know,

680
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: thirty five is not exactly your prime, but thirty five

681
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: to thirty seven as a head, those are still good

682
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: years for you giving them up by sitting on the sidelines.

683
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: You know, we just have to call balls and strikes.

684
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: That's a huge risk. That's a huge risk. So I

685
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: don't know what to say about that beyond it. I mean,

686
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: I really think he is undertaking a very very significant

687
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: risk doing that were at me, And again I don't know.

688
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm not privy to all the details that he has.

689
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure he has talked with Tyson Furious people. I'm

690
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: sure he has talked with AJ's people. I know for

691
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: a fact he's talked with like Deontay Wilder's people. So

692
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: maybe he's got information that makes him more comfortable making

693
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: this decision. We shall see. We shall see on that.

694
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: The other thing is, and it's worth having this conversation

695
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: as well, which is could Francis end up bankrupting PFL.

696
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of people telling you that

697
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm not as convinced by that. I'm not as convinced

698
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 1: by that. Here's what I mean. It's not that I'm

699
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: arguing that Francis's deal is not insanely expensive to them.

700
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure that it is. Like I'm sure that that

701
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: deal is an absolute breaker for them, however, and it's not.

702
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm also not arguing that they have to sign Francis, right,

703
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: It's like, it's if you don't sign Francis, it can't

704
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: be done. That's not my point. But what I would

705
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: argue is the way in which they've been signing talent

706
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: and doing these shows on regular television. This is this

707
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: is not a sustainable path. I know they've been on

708
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: TV for some time now, but that doesn't work. It

709
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: will eventually, it doesn't return the amount of money long

710
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: term that you would, in theory need to make that

711
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: operation successful. So they can buy time with the amount

712
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: of revenue that they have generated. And we should also know, dude,

713
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: PFL can raise a lot of money. They to even

714
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: be in the conversation to buy Bellator. You know, I

715
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: thought that's a billion dollars, but that's probably what between

716
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: five hundred million and and and up. I mean, you're

717
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: buying significant assets at that point, right, it's a lot

718
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 1: of money. Maybe that's a little high. Nevertheless, it would

719
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: require how about this, let me let me back up

720
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: a step. It would require hundreds of millions of dollars

721
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: to be able to make a transaction like that, probably

722
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: right in conjunction with getting Francis. We're just talking about

723
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: a substantial amount of money. They can raise that kind

724
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: of money. And so, while it is true I think

725
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: that Francis's deal is expensive for them in all kinds

726
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: of ways, and by no means a guarantee because of

727
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: the way contracts are structured elsewhere, that they're going to

728
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: be able to recruit enough players to make all of

729
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: this valuable. The truth is, it's what is the alternative. Yes,

730
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: they could not sign Francis, They've got Cedric Doombay coming

731
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: and they could sign in other ways. But again, like

732
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: you have to have access to the end of the

733
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: spectrum that someone like Francis occupies in order to make

734
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: what they're doing in terms of the amount that they've

735
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: generated and what their vision is, you have to have that.

736
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: On the other side right, you have to be able

737
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: to have access to that corner of the market. So

738
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: it's this real, very difficult rock and a hard play

739
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: situation where if you don't sign guys like that, you

740
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: have to sign every one of them. But if you

741
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: don't sign guys like that, you won't get there. But

742
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: even if you do, there's absolutely no guarantee that you will.

743
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: So you might see some folks saying this deal could

744
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: cost PFL and it might be bad for them. Again,

745
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting to him. It's not financially burdensome, but

746
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: they are in a really weird predicament where they either

747
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: have to push their chips to the middle or they

748
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: can just slowly do what they're doing until it just

749
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: runs out of money and never really get to any

750
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: other stage. There's no version of growth what they do

751
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen without signing that higher end. That's it.

752
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: It has to happen. So for me, great contract for

753
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: Francis for me, A bold one for PFL, A huge

754
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: chips in the middle kind of moment for PFL, it

755
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: seems like to me, especially with that Belletore news, I'm

756
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: happy for Francis. He's going to get a lot. I

757
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: think he will be able to get a couple of

758
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: interesting fights, but once again there's just a lot of

759
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and again with PFL Africa that could be huge depending

760
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: on how that works. There's a lot of stuff here

761
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: built in that gives France's not just flexibility, but investment

762
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: in things he cares about, giving back to places that

763
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: he came from, creating opportunities for others, not just hit

764
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: the pifile Africa, but his opponent. Again, it's a recruitment tool,

765
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: but you know, sharing wealth in that way, or forcing

766
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: promotions to share wealth more favorably. It's an interesting moment,

767
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: and I wonder what it might mean for future free

768
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: agency if we ever see something like this again or soon.

769
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: Tons and tons of interesting questions related to that. I've

770
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: got more, I'm sure, but I think it's a great

771
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: deal for Francis. I do. I think Francis got what

772
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: he wanted. I think the people telling you he was

773
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: fumbling the back. Okay, let me end on that these

774
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: jumokes telling you that he was fumbling the back, they

775
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: don't know what the fuck they're talking about. They're just

776
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: saying shit. They're just saying shit. Like if you want

777
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: to say, well, I don't know if this kind of

778
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: investment is worth it for for extra y reasons. That's

779
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: I think that's not unreasonable. Or you know, they can

780
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: invest all this money and it goes nowhere and that

781
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: that deal blew up in their face. That's not necessarily unreasonable.

782
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: But that Francis was fumbling the bag. Show me the

783
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: fucking evidence of that. They just saying words they're not

784
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: or he should go back to UFC. They're just saying

785
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: words they're not saying. They're saying something just based off

786
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: of a worldview that is doesn't match reality. It doesn't

787
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: match reality at all. He didn't fumble a thing. Francis,

788
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: it seems to me constructed perhaps the most interesting and

789
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: potentially most He gained concessions as an a side in

790
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: MMA that makes his contract look like a really good

791
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: boxing contract. Just a level of impossible that he was

792
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 1: able to put together. You just don't see contracts like this.

793
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: This is this is a I mean the PFL they

794
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: met his demands, like Francis did this one very well,

795
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: and to do that with no manager extremely impressive, extremely impressive.

796
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: So the good side to me, Francis is going to

797
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: get paid. His opponents are going to get paid. He

798
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: has a flexible deal, He has a fighter friendly deal

799
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: in the most truly historic ways. He got things that

800
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: allow him to take care of himself, people behind him,

801
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: people where he came from, people he is doing business with.

802
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: At the same time, we should be very clear about it.

803
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: Not any of that guarantees success for PFL. Not any

804
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: of that. They still have a lot of work cut

805
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: out for themselves. So Chips in the middle moment, we

806
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: will see what the turncard on the river ends up being.

807
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I think that's it for me. Folks, got you about

808
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: forty three minutes of instant reaction. I know he's going

809
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: to speak later today. Let me set up tomorrow's show

810
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: on Morning Combats. We'll get some reactions from the extremely

811
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: lazy Brian Campbell, but he'll have a good take for

812
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: you guys for tomorrow. On top of that, joining us

813
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: at the top of the show tomorrow, Eric Nixic because

814
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: of this two and a half year absence, I really

815
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: want to know what his MMA coach is going to

816
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: do to keep this guy ready in all that time,

817
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: and how he feels about all this potential time off.

818
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 1: So Nick sick joins us eleven am at the top

819
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: of the show tomorrow on MK. Further reaction to this,

820
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: we'll have clips from Francis's interview on MMA Hour. You

821
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: guys can check that out at one pm. But that's

822
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: it for me. So thank you guys so much for watching.

823
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you and Eric Nixon, NBC and everyone

824
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: else tomorrow eleven am in the East, eleven am in

825
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: the East. This has been our Francis Ngan who signs

826
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 1: with PFL instant reaction. I'll talk to you gents and

827
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: ladies tomorrow