1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. When we think of the American Revolution, 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: we think about a historical event that changed the world forever. 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: By the way, Welcome to the Weekend Podcast. For the 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: first time in history, a government was founded around the 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: principle that the individual reigns supreme, not the government, That 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: government is constructed by the people for the people, that 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: government serves the people, not the other way around. These 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: are terms and phrases you've heard your entire life so 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: often that you probably take them for granted. But the 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: amazing thing about this is that these were revolutionary when 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: they were uttered. We hold these truths to be self evident. 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: That all men are created equal, that they are endowed 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among those 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These rights 15 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: were not bestowed upon us at the whim of a king. 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: We believe in what are called natural rights, and that 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: is that our rights come from God himself. That government 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: is entrusted to protect those rights, but that government did 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: not give us those rights. That those rights natural rights, 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: were given by God himself. That man has a dignity 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: God has given him, and that it is the role 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: of government to get out of the way and not 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: strip him of it. You see, this forms the underpinning 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: of our founding documents, that all government can do is 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: protect what God already gave you. This is an important 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: understanding most people don't have. Have you ever wondered how 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: the American Revolution was viewed by the rest of the world, 28 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: because these were not only revolutionary, these were ridiculous ideas. 29 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: You can't possibly believe that, but we did. In a 30 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: fascinating Hillsdale College video and of Vincenzi, an assistant professor 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: of Modern European history. And by the way, Hillsdale College 32 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: does amazing work. They're not a show sponsor. They should be, 33 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: they're not, but they do amazing work. I encourage you 34 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: to financially support them, and I encourage you to consume 35 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: their content because there's a lot of it and it's very, 36 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: very good. Ana Vincenzi examines how Italian perceptions of the 37 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: American Revolution evolved over time. She explains that at first 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: Italian saw it less as a profound revolutionary movement and 39 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: more as a British civil war, but this perspective would 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: shift dramatically after the French Revolution. Now that might sound 41 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: crazy to you. Why would they think it's a British 42 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: Civil war? Because it was, Because it was. The American 43 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: colonists were Englishmen who decided they would no longer be 44 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: English Englishmen. They decided they would construct their own government 45 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: that was sovereign, not subjects of a king. Today, of 46 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: course that's the case, but that was revolutionary literally at 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: that time. 48 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: This question of how revolutionary was the American Revolution has 49 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: been the most interesting aspect of my research. The aspect 50 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: of the research that I found was compelling has been 51 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: really retracing how Italian views of the American Revolution evolved 52 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: between the years when the American Revolution is happening and 53 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: after the outbreak of the French Evolution. Italians don't see 54 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: the American Revolution as a revolution until the French Evolution happens, 55 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: not at least in the way we understand the term 56 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: revolution today. The most interesting story here is the remaking 57 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: of the concept of revolution and really the birth of 58 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: the idea of an age of revolution. Initially, the American 59 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: Evolution doesn't play very much of a role. Italians are 60 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: not particularly shocked by what's happening in the American colonies. 61 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: They perceive it very much as a British issue, as 62 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: a civil war and something that is not that novel, 63 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: So they don't perceive it as something that is radically unprecedented. 64 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: They don't perceive it as a watershed movement. Largely, Italians 65 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: perceive what's happening in the American colonies as an expression 66 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: of theories of resistance, of the legitimacy of resistance that 67 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,119 Speaker 2: have been circulating in Europe for centuries at this point, 68 00:04:54,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: and I think that's interesting in it of itself. As 69 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: the American Revolution happens, Italians think about it as a 70 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 2: revolution in the old sense of the term. Because what 71 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: happens in the seventeen nineties, in the last decade of 72 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century, is that the word revolution itself changes meaning. 73 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: If you go through dictionaries in English, in French, in Italian, 74 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: before this moment, before the last decade of the eighteenth century, 75 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: just revolution meant something different than what we mean today. 76 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: Revolution was at two meanings. Mainly, one was going back 77 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: to an initial, to an origin, or in an astronmica sense, 78 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: the revolution of the earth from the soul. The second 79 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: meaning was that of a sudden change vicissitude, something that happened, 80 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: not necessarily a political and certainly not a political project. 81 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: One of my sources is this woman from Venice. She's 82 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: a journalist, and I've found an article where she talks 83 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 2: about revolution, referring to some marital problems that she's having. 84 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: She's been fighting with her husband, and she talks about 85 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: that as a revolution. I have found articles that talk 86 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: about what's happening in America as a revolution, but not 87 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: with the connotation that we give the word today of 88 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: a radical political change. I think you could say that 89 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: the French Revolution really remakes the notion of revolution itself. 90 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: It gives the world a new meaning that it didn't 91 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: have before. In this context republicanism, there is a pre 92 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: modern tradition of republicanism that doesn't link strictly to anti. 93 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 3: Monarchical forms of government. 94 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: Republic means the public thing, and in Aristotelian and Sister 95 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: also talks about the respublica as something that could be 96 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: a government of the one, a government of the few, 97 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: a government of the many. John Adams as late as 98 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: seventeen eighty nine talks about the British monarchy as a 99 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: monarchica republic. Thomas Jefferson, in I think seventeen eighty eight 100 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: talks about the King of Poland as the head of 101 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: a monarchica republic. So republicanism wasn't perceived as inherently necessarily 102 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: anti monarchical. 103 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: After the French evolution, that becomes really. 104 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: Unthinkable, just like revolution, the word revolution, I think republicanism. 105 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: The nature of republicanism changes pretty dramatically, and that affects 106 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: the way Italians retrospectively re understand the meaning of the 107 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: American Revolution, and they really come to see it as 108 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: the beginning of an age of revolutions. As the American 109 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: Revolution happens, Italians don't see it as something that is 110 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: establishing a model for how to fix the problems, the 111 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: maladies of the origin in Europe, and like during the 112 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: seventeen nineties, as they look back, especially as supporters of 113 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: the French Revolution in the Italian state, especially those Italians, 114 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: start looking back, they start seeing the American Revolution as 115 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: the mother of the French evolution, as the beginning of 116 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: these liberation of humanity from the oppressive structures of the regime. 117 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: European monarchy is the church, and so they make it 118 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: into something more evolutionarily than they initially saw it, and 119 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: a model that has been more fully applied in France 120 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: and should work as an invitation to people everywhere in 121 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: Europe to topple existing regimes and build a new society 122 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: on a blank slates that will truly. 123 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: Restore the natural rights of men. 124 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: Over the course of the especially the seventeen eighties, they 125 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 2: observe they read about people like Washington Franklin, and they 126 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: start praising them consistently as examples of patriotism, selflessness. 127 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: And especially of prudence. 128 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: They recognize that in the American system of government there's 129 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: actually a lot that is in continuity, even though there 130 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: isn't a crown, a lot that is in continuity with 131 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: the British tradition of this government, that is learning from 132 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: the best of. 133 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: That constitutional tradition. 134 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: And so you have in Italy people who recognize that 135 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 2: continuity and praise Americans for their prudence and for not 136 00:09:54,400 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: claiming not trying to do something radically new. There's a 137 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: strong sense in the framers of the Constitution that human 138 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: nature is messy, is complicated. It's this complicated, messy mix 139 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: of good and evil impuses of being made in the 140 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: image of God. Therefore, the political constitution is a work 141 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 2: of complexity that involves a lot of prudence that needs 142 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: to account for the complexity of human nature itself, and 143 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: that there's wisdom in building on the wisdom of the 144 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: past and the ways in which the wisdom of the 145 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: past has tried to deal with that complexity. 146 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please 147 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 148 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. 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