1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,800
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Robert Evans here and my novel After the

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,800
Speaker 1: Revolution is available for pre order now from a k

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 1: press dot org. Now, if you go to a k

4
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,880
Speaker 1: press dot org you can find After the Revolution. Just

5
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 1: google a k press dot org After the Revolution you'll

6
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: find a list of participating indie bookstores selling my book.

7
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 1: And if you pre order now from either these independent

8
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: bookstores or from a k Press, you'll get a custom

9
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: signed copy of the book, which I think is pretty cool.

10
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: You can also pre order it in physical or in

11
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: kindle a form from Amazon or pretty much wherever books

12
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,600
Speaker 1: are sold. So please google a k press after the

13
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 1: Revolution um or find an indie bookstore in your area

14
00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: and pre order it. You'll get assigned a copy and

15
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 1: you'll make me very happy. Ah, I don't how how

16
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: do I, Sophie? How do I introduce Part three of

17
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: the Kissinger series? You just did it. Gareth and David

18
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: are right here, they're waiting for something good, and I

19
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: just I'm just I'm fucking up, Sophie. I mean, yeah,

20
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 1: but you you accidentally introduced the podcast which is behind

21
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,600
Speaker 1: the basket, behind the dollops, dollop the bastard up the

22
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: bastards hybrid podcast, and like all hybrids, it is incapable

23
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,400
Speaker 1: of procreating, but better at getting up steep mountain passes.

24
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: It's getting a little goat. Now we can multiply by

25
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 1: cell division, but not through sexual Yeah. Yeah we've tried. Yeah,

26
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 1: we have, we have. We're in that processed. So since

27
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 1: we last recorded a podcast, war has broken out and

28
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, mister in Europe, God three days. Yeah,

29
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 1: but we like ended it and then it was like,

30
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 1: oh wow, it's happening, and now it feels like it's

31
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: been two months since. Then had a brief conversation what

32
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen? And then immediately

33
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 1: checked our phones to be like, oh, okay, so they're

34
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 1: showing all over the plate. Oh so y'all, are are

35
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,400
Speaker 1: we ready to learn about Henry Kissinger and a little

36
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,600
Speaker 1: country you might have heard of called Cambodia and also

37
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,640
Speaker 1: a separate country you might have called Lao, and also Vietnam.

38
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 1: Still so that energy, let's go, let's do it. Yeah.

39
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,760
Speaker 1: So on February fourteen, Valentine's Day, nineteen sixty five, President

40
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 1: Lyndon B. Johnson approved Operation Rolling Thunder. This was a

41
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 1: long term campaign of aerial bombing against North Vietnam. It's

42
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 1: primary aims were to help them arout with the South

43
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 1: Vietnamese and the Psigon government, to persuade North Vietnam to

44
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 1: stop supporting the Vietcong, and to destroy the North Vietnamese

45
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,840
Speaker 1: transportation infrastructure and industrial base so as to stop them

46
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,160
Speaker 1: from sending men and equipment south. It did not succeed

47
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 1: as a spoiler. None of this, None of this works.

48
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 1: Like it's just amazing that, like you have all this firepower,

49
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 1: you have all these planes, and really you're talking about

50
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 1: destroying like railroads and shipping and like underground tunnels too.

51
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,920
Speaker 1: This is the hoche Man trail, you know. I mean

52
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 1: it's not what we're talking about, the Hotimon trail, and

53
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,800
Speaker 1: they we're never going to do that. No, this is

54
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 1: like a lesson that no one ever learns in warfare.

55
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 1: Because you can also point to like the saturation bombing

56
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: of Germany, which had a minimal effect on German industrial production.

57
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: You can talk about like what's happening right now in Ukraine,

58
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,919
Speaker 1: which is not succeeded in its strategic games. You could

59
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,800
Speaker 1: talk about a number of wars the US has been involved,

60
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,639
Speaker 1: and you can talk about like World War One where

61
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,360
Speaker 1: the British would drop a million shells in a couple

62
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 1: of hours on a chunk of trench line and then

63
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 1: I'll get killed by machine gun fire because the shells

64
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: didn't do enough. Like military leaders always have this idea

65
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 1: that we can just bomb our problems away and it

66
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 1: just never really works. Yeah, no, it doesn't. It's yeah,

67
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 1: you know what it does. It It terrifies the civilian population.

68
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 1: It sure does, yes, um, And it helps the Pentagon

69
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 1: a lot. I think it does help the Pentagon. It

70
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 1: makes money for people, so I guess to that extent

71
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: it succeeds in its goal. And Operation Thunder did make

72
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: some people a lot of money. Um. It continued for

73
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 1: three straight years until November of nineteen sixty eight. During

74
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: this period, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps planes through

75
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 1: more than three hundred thousand attack sorties, which dropped more

76
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 1: than eight hundred and sixty four thousand tons of bombs.

77
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: For reference, the United States dropped half a million tons

78
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 1: of bombs in the Pacific theater during all of World

79
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 1: War Two. Um. Yeah, it is hard to exaggerate the

80
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,039
Speaker 1: extent to which we bombed the ship out of North

81
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 1: Vietnam to no notable effect. According to our trustworthy friends

82
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 1: at the CIA, the raids did five hundred million dollars

83
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: in damage, killed twenty one people, and injured more than

84
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 1: thirty thousand more. The CIA says that sevent of all

85
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: casualties were people involved in military operations. US government estimates,

86
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 1: not by the CIA, however, estimate at least thirty thousand

87
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 1: civilian fatalities. Other estimates placed the civilian death toll much higher,

88
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: at close to two hundred thousand civilians um. Probably fair

89
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,040
Speaker 1: to say north of a hundred thousand, you know, um

90
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,400
Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of folks. Um. By the time

91
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 1: Kissing Your and Nixon took office, it was clear that

92
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 1: Rolling Thunder had failed miserably. This was due in part

93
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 1: to the existence of the Ho Chiman Trail in nineteen

94
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: fifty nine. This is before US soldiers had officially entered

95
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,040
Speaker 1: the country. The trail had been created under order by

96
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: the Laodong, which is the Communist Party of Vietnam, to

97
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: aid them in what was at that point a building

98
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,799
Speaker 1: conflict with South Vietnam. At the start, it led across

99
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 1: just the demilitarized zone into Cassan and South Vietnam. Porters

100
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,479
Speaker 1: would carry boxes of ammunition and rifles on their body,

101
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,799
Speaker 1: which they would then hand to insurgents in the south.

102
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 1: Over time, the trail was expanded to a vast underground

103
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: transit network, more than twelve thousand miles in size, capable

104
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 1: of moving more than ten thousand troops and thousands of

105
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,119
Speaker 1: trucks per year. As the fighting escalated, the trail veered

106
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 1: into Lao, where the government was engaged fighting its own

107
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 1: insurgency and unable to stop the transit of weapons. The

108
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,440
Speaker 1: Ho Chiman Trail allowed North Vietnam to smuggle equipment south

109
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 1: and to evade the U. S. Naval blockade that sought

110
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,120
Speaker 1: to choke it out. Today, even Defense Department sources recognized

111
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: it as one of the greatest logistical successes of twentieth

112
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: century warfare. It works pretty good. It's amazing to think

113
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,040
Speaker 1: of the number of bombs you're talking about, and then

114
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 1: they made a tunnel. Yeah, yeah, really good haul. But

115
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: it's like chop out. It's not just it's not just

116
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 1: a tunnel, it's it's it's in a jungle. Like we're

117
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,080
Speaker 1: talking about, very difficult sort of environment to make a tunnel.

118
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 1: It's not that like, it's incredible what they did. Yeah,

119
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: So lbj's administration sent planes into allow to bomb the

120
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 1: trail and to escort Lautian planes while they bombed the trail.

121
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: When US airmen were killed or captured over law, their

122
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: families were told they'd gone down in Southeast Asia to

123
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 1: allow LBJ to claim he'd abided by his nineteen sixty

124
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 1: four election promise to avoid a wider war. Cambodia was

125
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,919
Speaker 1: bombed as well, but during lbj's administration, Loo was considered

126
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: a more important target. They thought more stuff was getting

127
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 1: into Vietnam through law. This changed in nineteen when the

128
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: Tet offense made it clear that North Vietnam had gotten

129
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 1: very good at running troops in and out of Cambodia.

130
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: Johnson hadn't been willing to escalate the bombing campaign against

131
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,480
Speaker 1: a neutral country, though, especially since again, there was this

132
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: big election going on and he was kind of having

133
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: his vice president run on the promise that, like, we're

134
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 1: really going to end this thing. So you know, lb J,

135
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,040
Speaker 1: when he's trying to tease North Vietnam with a bombing halt,

136
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 1: isn't gonna just start laying into Cambodia in the spring

137
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine, after you know, Kissinger and Nixon

138
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 1: took office, they approved the expanded use of US special

139
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 1: forces in Lao, along with a campaign of sustained air strikes.

140
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 1: This was called Operations Steal Tiger. All of these So,

141
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean the stupidest names. Yeah, we, I mean we

142
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: the marketing that we have gone for in this country

143
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 1: for so long has been so absurd. Steal Tiger. Well,

144
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,600
Speaker 1: I mean they're just taking Y and T album names

145
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah. Uh, if only they'd gone with

146
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 1: like Prince Operate and Purple Rain. But it's like the

147
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 1: defoliant that gives everyone cancer. Um, so it's I should

148
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 1: note here that all secret operations carried out by any

149
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 1: US forces anywhere in the world during the Nixon administration

150
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: were approved personally by Henry Kissinger. Henry was the chairman

151
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: of something called the forty comm Hell sorry, this was

152
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,960
Speaker 1: a semi secret body that had been set up to

153
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 1: provide management and oversight to c i A covert operations.

154
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 1: The committee was made up of members of the National

155
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,600
Speaker 1: Security Council. They concerned themselves regularly with the question of

156
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: how to stop weapons from flowing into Vietnam By this point,

157
00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 1: trails ran through parts of Law and Cambodia, but also

158
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,319
Speaker 1: from the Vietnam Chinese border, so Kissinger is ahead of this.

159
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: Committee considers a number of ways to stop weapons from

160
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 1: getting into New or from getting into and with Vietnam,

161
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,679
Speaker 1: including the use of thermonuclear weapons to annihilate the railways

162
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,839
Speaker 1: between North Vietnam and China out of its entire damn my,

163
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: and to be fair, is nuts enough that even Kissinger

164
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:09,800
Speaker 1: is like, no, that's a little too far. He also

165
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,600
Speaker 1: considered bombing the dikes that kept North Vietnam's irrigation system

166
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: from flooding all of its fields. Both of these would

167
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: have been war crimes on a Titanic scale. Um. Thankfully,

168
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 1: Kissinger declined to do either in favor of a completely

169
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,599
Speaker 1: different set of war crimes. So that's good, that's nice. Yeah,

170
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,960
Speaker 1: let's do a different thing. He decides which war crimes

171
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: to commit, like we decide like jeans or sweatpants in

172
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 1: the morning, you know, I mean, I think that would

173
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,760
Speaker 1: go really well with what we're doing now. That a

174
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: really tie the whole thing together. Yeah, that's quite a life.

175
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: So immediately after taking office, Henry helps his new boss

176
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,960
Speaker 1: put together a menu of bombardment targets in Cambodia. This

177
00:09:48,040 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 1: is literally called Operation Menu. Now, yeahs before up to

178
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: tip your bomba deer, get the sample that was. That's

179
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,719
Speaker 1: what I don't know. I actually don't recall off the

180
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 1: top of my head which bombing operation McCain was involved in.

181
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 1: But there's a good there's a good tip joke to

182
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 1: be made there. Somebody will figure it out. Um, people

183
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 1: doing post Yeah, we'll figure it out. Different or parts

184
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 1: of Operation Menu had code names. Different targets had code

185
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:30,360
Speaker 1: names like breakfast, lunch sack. What I mean, it is

186
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 1: one thing to be like so sadistic and it's just

187
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: another thing to tie it into do a lot to

188
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 1: try brunch yea, yeah, we're going back to brunch finally

189
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 1: under watch the next Um. So yeah, it's nice that

190
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: slaughter can be fun, like you can find fun. Yeah,

191
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 1: it's the kind of love what you do, Dave. Otherwise

192
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: you're just gonna feel like work, you know. So before

193
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 1: they began this series of bombings, the Joint Chiefs of

194
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 1: Staff they warned the White House quote some Cambodian casualties

195
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,199
Speaker 1: would be sustained in the operation. The surprise effective ASTA

196
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: could tend to increase casualties. So they're like the fact

197
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 1: that we're not warning anyone and that we're keeping this

198
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,199
Speaker 1: a secret means more civilians will die. Like heads up,

199
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 1: so you know what you're doing. This is this is

200
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Um. Now. As they approached the

201
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: question of bombing Cambodia A, Kissinger and Nixon had a choice.

202
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,600
Speaker 1: They could either tell Congress or they could hide what

203
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 1: they were doing and use the presidential power over the

204
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,680
Speaker 1: Armed services to appropriate funds from other places in order

205
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: to carry out the bombing in secret. Nixon had been

206
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: elected with Kissinger's help in part due to the LBJ

207
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: administration's failure to in the war. He didn't want to

208
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,200
Speaker 1: go in the nineteen seventy two reelection campaign, having to

209
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,560
Speaker 1: defend the fact that he expanded it. Henry Kissinger worked

210
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 1: with Colonel's Alexander Haig and Race Sitton to figure out

211
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 1: a way for the president to direct bombing operations in

212
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 1: a private manner. And I'm gonna quote from Kissinger's shadow,

213
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 1: Greg Grandon, sitting based on recommendations he received from General

214
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 1: Creighton Abrams, the commander of military operations in Vietnam, would

215
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 1: work up a number of targets in Cambodia to be struck.

216
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,679
Speaker 1: Then he would bring them to Kissinger and hag in

217
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,320
Speaker 1: the White House for approval. Kissinger was very hands on

218
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,680
Speaker 1: revising some of Sitton's work. I don't know what he

219
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: was using as his reason for varying them. Sitting later

220
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: recalled strike here in this area. Kissinger would tell him

221
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: or strike there in that area. Once Kissinger was satisfied

222
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 1: with the proposed target, Sitting would back channel the coordinates

223
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: to Saigon, and from there a career would pass them

224
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 1: on to the appropriate radar stations, where an officer would

225
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 1: make a last minute switch. The B fifty two would

226
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: be diverted from its cover target in South Vietnam into Cambodia,

227
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 1: where it would drop its bomb load on the real target.

228
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,439
Speaker 1: When the run was complete, the officer in charge of

229
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 1: the deception would burn whatever documents, maps, computer print outs,

230
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: radar reports, messages, and so on that might reveal the

231
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,839
Speaker 1: actual flight. Then he would write up false post strike

232
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: paperwork indicating that the South Vietnam sortee was flown as planned.

233
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 1: It's so much work. Yeah, reminds me of when I

234
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 1: used this skip school that like the lengths I would

235
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: go to to get away with cutting class and like that.

236
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 1: The point would be made always to me, like if

237
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,360
Speaker 1: you put this focus towards studying, you'd probably you'd spend

238
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 1: less time and it would be more effective. But instead

239
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 1: you just waste so much. Instead of just stopping you

240
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,880
Speaker 1: you do all this gymnastics just to continue the thing

241
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,959
Speaker 1: that is the problem, that makes the problem compound. Yeah,

242
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,679
Speaker 1: it's they really are are going through a lot of

243
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,440
Speaker 1: work to illegally bomb a neutral country look like they're

244
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,239
Speaker 1: not bombing, Yeah, to look like they're not Um, it's gaslighting,

245
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, this is this, that's what. That's what. This

246
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 1: is kissing you you know, we're finally going to get

247
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: him canceled. This is gonna be what man, it would be.

248
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:51,240
Speaker 1: Imagine we're going to do to kissing on Hannibal Burst

249
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:58,319
Speaker 1: did to Cosby. Oh man, come on, come on. Uh.

250
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 1: So you know, obviously this is very illegal. Um, there's

251
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: a lot and there's a lot of parts of it

252
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 1: that are illegal. For example, the military has a chain

253
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 1: of command, and Sitton was bypassing his bosses in the

254
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,080
Speaker 1: Department of Defense because he's just a colonel, right, like

255
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 1: colonels don't get to that's not there, Like you're not

256
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: at that level, right, So he is he is bypassing

257
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,160
Speaker 1: the normal chain of command in order to directly orchestrate

258
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: an a legal bombing campaign with the White House and

259
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 1: kind of cutting out a chunk of the Pentagon sitting

260
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 1: knew at the time that it was weird to cut

261
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 1: his commanding officers out and report directly to Henry Kissinger.

262
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 1: He later recalled, I kind of felt I was way

263
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: out on a limb and skating on some pretty thin

264
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 1: ice with all my trips to the West basement of

265
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,920
Speaker 1: the White House where he's meeting with Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah,

266
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to a secret basement. Yeah, and to talk

267
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: about bombing, like maybe maybe this isn't how it's supposed

268
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 1: to be done. Seemed like a democracy. I feel like

269
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be doing things like this in a basement.

270
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 1: You've come to secret democracy basement. Yeah. The people voted

271
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: for this basement knock. So I know, as you I

272
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: noted here that they kind of cut out a large

273
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 1: chunk of like the military command apparatus to do this,

274
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 1: which doesn't mean that those guys were against what they

275
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,160
Speaker 1: were doing, and in fact, all of sitton superiors knew

276
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: what he was doing. They just didn't want to be

277
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 1: involved because again, it was a crime, you know. So

278
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 1: they so they're like they're down with the cut out

279
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 1: because they're just like, yeah, you do it, and I

280
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: don't want my name on this ship crazy, but go

281
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 1: with it for sure. Yeah, yeah we love it. But yeah,

282
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 1: they didn't know about the bombing Cambodia the same way.

283
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 1: I have never known a pot dealer, right, So Sitton

284
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: would regularly like, I don't know. I'm not going to

285
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 1: say this is to his credit, but he was like

286
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 1: this is weird, and he would go He did on

287
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 1: a couple of occasions go to his superiors and was

288
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: like are you okay with this? And his exact phrase

289
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: what they responded was just do just what you're doing.

290
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 1: When you get a call to go to the White House,

291
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 1: go because you don't really have a choice, which is great.

292
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's it's it's straight out of the

293
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: show Snowfall, Like it's just like this ship just happens

294
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, this is what happened with Iran Contra.

295
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 1: It was the same fucking ship, you know. Yeah, it's

296
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 1: all crimes and It's worth noting that like the United

297
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: States is going to war with a neutral country in secret,

298
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,240
Speaker 1: under the personal direction of a guy who several months

299
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,800
Speaker 1: ago had been a Harvard professor, like Kissinger is not

300
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 1: even a year distant from being a fucking teacher and

301
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: this and now he is orchestrating a secret war in Cambodia.

302
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: And like, I love the I love the beginning thing

303
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: where you said, there's like a guy whose job it

304
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 1: is to pick targets, and he's picking targets and nick

305
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: and kissing, just taking them apps and going no, I

306
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: like here, like just totally random. He doesn't have any

307
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: fucking idea what he's doing. He's just like that it

308
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: looks like it should go away. He has not even

309
00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 1: begun to micromanage this, this war crime, Dave. So, the

310
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 1: purpose of this illegal bombing campaign was not just to

311
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 1: stop the movement of Vietnamese troops and material. It also paid.

312
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,879
Speaker 1: It also played a role in advancing what Nixon called

313
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 1: his Madman theory. Now, the President had shared this with

314
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 1: close confidence prior to the nineteen six election. He told

315
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 1: his future chief of staff that, in order to negotiate

316
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,159
Speaker 1: an into the war with favorable terms he felt he

317
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 1: had to make the North Vietnamese quote, believe I've reached

318
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 1: a point where I might do anything to stop the war.

319
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 1: We'll just slip the word to them that, for God's sake,

320
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 1: you know, Nixon is obsessed about communists. We can't restrain

321
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: him when he's angry and he has his hand on

322
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: the nuclear button. And ho Chi Men himself will be

323
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,239
Speaker 1: in Paris in two days begging for peace, which is

324
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,879
Speaker 1: like the idea. Someone's like, so you want us to

325
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 1: try to convey that you're crazy? Okay, that seems um

326
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 1: and I think it's coming across her. Honestly, I think

327
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 1: that's already it's baked into this whole thing a little bit.

328
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 1: It's also very funny that, like they are trying to

329
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 1: scare ho Chi Men, who at this point is fighting

330
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: his second winning war against a major world power with

331
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 1: like a very very small number of people, you know,

332
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 1: like North North Vietnam not a big country compared to

333
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: say the French Imperial Forces or the United States. He's

334
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: not a kind of You're not going to scare ho

335
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 1: Chi Men, right, He's not. He's not a guy who

336
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: gets spooked. It's over. It's just absolutely not happening at

337
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,479
Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, Now, Kissinger either believed in his boss's

338
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 1: plan or understood that he had to play along. Greg

339
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: Grandon argues that Nixon's Madman theory was actually just an

340
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: extension of the foreign policy arguments that Kissinger himself had

341
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: been making for years. Quote. Toughness after all, was a

342
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 1: late motif that run through much ran through much of

343
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 1: his state craft, the idea that war and diplomacy are inseparable,

344
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,400
Speaker 1: and that to be effective, diplomats need to be able

345
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: to punish and persuade an equal, unrestricted measure. In fact,

346
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 1: the Madman theory was an extension of Kissinger's philosophy of

347
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,399
Speaker 1: the deed that power wasn't power unless one was willing

348
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 1: to use it, that the purpose of action was to

349
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 1: neutralize the inertia of an action. I mean it like

350
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: it's not I mean, it's not a double down. It's

351
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 1: like you've it's eighteen double downs. But at some point

352
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 1: you just I I, at least in my lifetime, had

353
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 1: a moment where I did believe that there were there

354
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: were people who were who would like point out the

355
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: crazy shit. And the more you learn, the more you go, No,

356
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 1: there's just there's not They are just all like it's

357
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: like a bunch of junkies figuring out how to get

358
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,360
Speaker 1: more junk. Yeah, I mean, it's just like it's just

359
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: how do you get through the day. It's not long

360
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 1: term anything. Yep. You know, there's a degree to which

361
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: And this is like one of the things that's most

362
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: frustrating about this part of how this always gets justified

363
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 1: is there's legitimate logic in that, Yeah, Hitler gobbled up

364
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of little chunks of Western Europe and nobody

365
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 1: stopped him, and they should have, like something should have

366
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 1: been done, like when he decided to take Czechoslovakia. You know,

367
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: we're during the Angelustre's certainly, you know, like there, and

368
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 1: they take this logic of like, yeah, if you have

369
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: this like massive military his nation gobbling up its neighbors,

370
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: you can't just necessarily do nothing. And they applied that

371
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 1: to like, well, okay, we've got a bomb Cambodia because

372
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 1: some dudes are hiking through it with guns on their back,

373
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: like Chamberlain. Nonsense escalation. Chamberlain also is always in play

374
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: there too, because it's like everyone's like, you don't want

375
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 1: to be a Chamberlain. Yeah, we're appeasing North Vietnam if

376
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 1: we don't drop more bombs, and we're dropped in all

377
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: of World War two on Cambodia, Cambodia. It's this nonsense

378
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: escalation of of of logic, of historical logic. That's like

379
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: like someday Nixon's just going to look in the mirror

380
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: and be like, sometimes I think I'm I'm just fighting

381
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: a war inside of myself. They're actually there are some

382
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: quotes from Kissinger that aren't all that far off here.

383
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: We're back. So the first bombing mission in this operation

384
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: was launched on March eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Kissinger was

385
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 1: in conversation at the time when he was interrupted with

386
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: a note telling him that the bombing run had been

387
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: a success. He smiled and then sent the information on

388
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: to the President. Nixon's chief of staff later recalled historic day.

389
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: Kissinger really excited. He came in beaming with the report. Now,

390
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: it was noted by people who were around the White

391
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: House that Nick's that Kissinger seemed to enjoy. Quote playing

392
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: the bomba deer, taking great pains to direct the destruction,

393
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: saymour seymour Hirsch wrote that quote When the military men

394
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: presented a proposed bombing list, Kissinger would redesign the missions,

395
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: shifting a dozen planes, perhaps from one area to another,

396
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: and altering the timing of the bombing runs. And it does. Yeah,

397
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: I guess no fucking expertise in this area, absolutely none.

398
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: He's a fucking nerd who reads books, like you don't

399
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: know anything about what to bomb Henry. It's like me

400
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: showing up at a hospital and being like, all right,

401
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: give me this surgical schedule. I need to start to

402
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: work in these surgeries and getting him in order, like, yeah,

403
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: it's fucking crazy, it is. I mean, this is a

404
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: there's a human impulse here. We're seeing in Ukraine where

405
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 1: all these like random people are being like, here's how

406
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: you disable the tank, and it's like, you've never disabled

407
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: to tank. You don't know what the funk you're talking about. Like,

408
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: you're not gonna like throwing paint on it isn't going

409
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 1: to stop it. You're going to get people killed. If

410
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: anyone's stupid enough to listen to you, shut up. It's

411
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 1: just like Kissinger is actually in a power to really

412
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: do that. And there's this I don't know what it is.

413
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is that makes some people

414
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: certain that like they know how to prosecute an entire

415
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: war based on their experience reading a lot of books

416
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: at a school, and there's and there's. It doesn't sound

417
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: like there's anybody who's going like, no, that doesn't make anything.

418
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: Is this out of its mind? Yeah? Yeah, So so

419
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: it's just like it is. It's just people being like, okay, sure,

420
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: because there's a lot Obviously, the the unrestricted drone warfare

421
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: that that escalated during the Obama administration and continued at

422
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: and even higher pace under Trump is indefensible morally, but

423
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: also the way that it tended to work was like

424
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: you would get, you know, these guys with the administration,

425
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: whichever one it was, would say like these are the

426
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: things we are we are going to target with drones,

427
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: and then the military would bring them like, well, here

428
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: are the different options for strikes that we have, and

429
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: they would like pick which one to do. Kissinger is

430
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: literally taking the maps from them, erasing their plans and

431
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: like writing in his own um, which is like it's

432
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: someone in the huddle with an actually like with coach

433
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: k he's drawing a plan a whiteboard and then a

434
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: fan just scribbles it out and like rubs it all

435
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: down with his arm, and then he's like, instead, I

436
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: don't do it all run out the court at the

437
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: same time, and then we pass the ball a bunch

438
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: tonight to do it. That makes someone head the bat

439
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: into the it's it's not I think, Yeah, I'm just

440
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: upset because I bought forty gallons of paint because you

441
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: were going to try to knock out a couple of

442
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: tanks and now the whole fucking thing shot. Like, yeah,

443
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: there are some things paint is good at when it

444
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: comes to conflict. There were some very funny moments in

445
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: one of the big shud fights we had up in Portland,

446
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: where kids filled the fire extinguisher with paint and like

447
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: ruined thousands of dollars in tactical gear. That was that

448
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: was good. Look. It's not to say that amateurs never

449
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: have good ideas, but they were not amateurs at that point. Though.

450
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: Those kids have been finding those proud boys for a minute.

451
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: So Kissinger's extraordinary degree of control over the situation was

452
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: possible because he had literally reformed the entire national security

453
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: apparatus around himself. Nixon wanted a buffer from his own

454
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: Secretary of State, which prided Henry with the opportunity to

455
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: take as much power and centralize it around the National

456
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: Security Advisor. And he could do this as long as

457
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: he kept Nixon happy. Under Kissinger, the National Security Council,

458
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: which he headed, became the center of US foreign policy.

459
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: A massive bureaucracy fed piles of information embassy kales, cables,

460
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: intelligence reports, et cetera, straight to Henry Kissinger. He decided,

461
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: he's again, Henry is where all of the information from

462
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: this vast apparatus that the US has to gather information

463
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: right the eyes and ears of the president, you know,

464
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: all the things that are supposed to provide the president

465
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: with information. All of that comes directly to Henry, and

466
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: he decides what to give the president. And he was

467
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: a teacher, and he was a year before. He was

468
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: a guy who's primary claim to fame before this was

469
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: we need more nukes. We don't have enough fucking nukes,

470
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: and also we should use them whenever. Um it's I

471
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: was just watching there's a great documentary called Commanded Control

472
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: that's about a nuclear disaster in the U s and

473
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty that nearly killed half of the people on

474
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: the East coast that enough folks don't know about. A

475
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: guy accidentally dropped a bolt and it ignited part of

476
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: a nuclear missile and it nearly killed everyone in the

477
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: Eastern seaboard. Yeah, it was. It was a big old

478
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: It was a bigger fuffle um. And this guy's there's

479
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 1: a scrow fell in the thing. That's nuts about it.

480
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: But one of the things that pointed out I think

481
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: we have Sophie can google this for me. I think

482
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: we have about six thousand nuclear weapons right now, which

483
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: is way too many. But as a result we have Yeah,

484
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: we have the Russia as on six thousand, we have

485
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: around so that's too much. Both countries have too many nukes.

486
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: I think we can all I'm not signed enough on that.

487
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: As a result, in part of Kissingers, we have a

488
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: missile gap and we need to build more. By this

489
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: point in the mid sixties, there are thirty two thousand

490
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons in the United States. That's even an a

491
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: side because it's like a Kardashian with shoes. Yeah. I

492
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: feel my thing has always been every every person who

493
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: owns property should be allowed to have a nuke, your

494
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: own nuke. Look, I think you can all agree. You

495
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: know what you know what, there wouldn't be if everyone

496
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: had a nuke. Dave, no knock raids by the cops.

497
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: That's true. You're not gonna have any of that ship

498
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: they busted down doors. Yeah, guys, fine, real different situation

499
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: are the cops if everybody's got a nuke, other problems, though,

500
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: there would would be some other problems. So um anyway,

501
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: Kissinger is the the Kissinger is effectively turned himself into

502
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: the eyes and ears of the United States military appetatis.

503
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: He decides what. You can argue, he's one of the

504
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: two or three most powerful people who's ever lived at

505
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: this point. An argument could be made um So Marvin

506
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: and Bernard Colb, who were both diplomats at this point,

507
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: describe what Henry builds here as Henry's wonderful machine. Quote Kissinger,

508
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: I know Mr mcgoim's nuclear emporium. Since Kissinger controlled the system,

509
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: he controlled the decision making process. Everyone reports to Kissinger

510
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: and only Kissinger reports to the president. This set up

511
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: allowed Henry to micromanaged bombing campaigns, over order, covert arms deals,

512
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: and engage in secret diplomacy at will. He was not

513
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: merely executing the president's orders. He himself was free to

514
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: make national policy as long as Nixon was happy with him.

515
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: From Kissinger's shadow quote, Kissinger, according to Marvin and Bernard

516
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: called kalb knew almost instinctively that he would be able

517
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: to control the bureaucracy and thus help reorder American diplomacy,

518
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: only to the degree that he became indistinguishable from the

519
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: President and his policies. Rogers at State was opposed to

520
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: the idea of escalating the war into Cambodia. Layered at

521
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: the Pentagon was for it, but thought it needed to

522
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: be done above board, legally and publicly through the normal

523
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: chain of command. This gave Kissinger an opening, letting him

524
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: stake out in a plus ultra position. He wanted to bomb,

525
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: he wanted to bomb in a way that inflicted the

526
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: most pain, and he wanted to bomb an absolute secrecy,

527
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: completely off the books. As a result, every war crime

528
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: committed by the United States during the Nction administration, every

529
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: bad thing U S forces do, particularly under the under

530
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: the ages of special operations at least right has to

531
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: be considered one of Henry Kissinger's crimes, because it is

532
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: his job to personally sign off on all of them

533
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: um and he is Mike. He is not just a

534
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: rubber stamper. He is he is actively pushing for things.

535
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: So we are going into very specific detail about one

536
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: specific crime. If you find a bad thing that the US,

537
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: that US, the CIA or special forces did from nineteen

538
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, Henry Kissinger gave that the old thumbs up.

539
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: So again we have to leave out a lot. It

540
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: doesn't even sound like it's I mean, it's like ego based. Yeah,

541
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: it's it's not even I mean, there's there's there's so

542
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: little actual and it just shows you, like what happens

543
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: when you're in a bubble. But I mean, I just

544
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: don't think most people would would be capable of this.

545
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: But it's it is. It's just like it's not really

546
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: for anything other than he is just feels great being

547
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: at the helm of this and it's an extremely powerful position.

548
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: It's such a bad idea, like if you proceed like

549
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 1: a moment, get ourselves in the headspace. If someone who

550
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: thinks all of this is morally justified, it's a bad

551
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: idea because a person can't competently manage all of this

552
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: like they would, right, they would be like, look, I

553
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: need help. I mean, is we're doing what you came

554
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: to do, like a reasonable warlord would be like level headed, yeah, yeah,

555
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean yeah. Um. So, when he was signing off

556
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: on bombing runs, Kissinger poured over raw intelligence documents, which

557
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: included information on exactly, in many cases, down to the

558
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: number how many civilians lived in a certain target target area. Um. Now,

559
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: sometimes it was a little bit less specific in this.

560
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: For example, Areas seven oh four, which had quote sizeable

561
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: concentrations of civilians, didn't have an exact number, but was

562
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: bombed two and forty seven times on Henry Kissinger's orders.

563
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: And since we're going to be talking a lot about bombing,

564
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: we should discuss exactly what that meant in this case,

565
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: because all bombings are not created equal. The bombings Kissinger

566
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: directed were carried out by B fifty two bombers. These

567
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: are massive planes. These are like the size of the

568
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 1: big international commercial aircraft roughly right. These are not like

569
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: fighter jets and stuff. Um. These fly too high to

570
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: be seen from the ground, and they are incapable of

571
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: meaningful discrimination between civilian and military targets. This is not

572
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: an era in which there's much at all in the

573
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: way of precision guided bombing. And that with a B

574
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: fifty two you cannot even attempt precision. You are dropping

575
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: explosives blindly from like a mile up. I want to

576
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: quote now from a write up by Taylor Owen and

577
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: Ben Kiernan for Yale. Quote. A single B fifty two

578
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: D big belly payload consists of up to one hundred

579
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: and eight, two hundred or forty kg bombs, which are

580
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: dropped in a target area of approximately five hundred by

581
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred meters. In many cases, Cambodian villages were hit

582
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: with dozens of payloads over the course of several hours.

583
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: The result was near total destruction. When US officials stated

584
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: at the time, we had been told as at everybody

585
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: that those carpet bombing attacks by B fifty twos were

586
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: totally devastating, that nothing could survive. It's like a sturgeon

587
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: with eggs. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is just completely indiscriminate. Yeah,

588
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: one Cambodian survivor because people did live. As we've stated,

589
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: these are never as good at killing people as the

590
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: military likes to claim, which is not to minimize the horror.

591
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 1: It's just like it's also not it doesn't work, um exactly.

592
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean. One one Cambodian survivor of US bombing described

593
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: it this way. Three f one one ones bombed right

594
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: center of my village, killing eleven of my family members.

595
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: My father was wounded but survived. At that time. There

596
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: was not a single soldier in the village or in

597
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: the area around the village. Seven other villages were also killed.

598
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: They had to run into a ditch to hide, and

599
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: then two bombs fell right into it. Fox, Yeah, it is. Yeah,

600
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: you cannot you cannot exaggerate the the extent to which

601
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: this is indiscriminate. It's just total madness on top of madness.

602
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no people are rightly furious about, like

603
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: bombing in in in Ukrainian cities right now. What the

604
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: United States is doing in Cambodia is eliminating grid squares

605
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: on a map of all life, Like, yeah, which is

606
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: the country. There's nothing to fucking do. Yeah, some are

607
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: walking through it, you know, like it's cop logic. Were like, well,

608
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: a guy who stole a car was seen in this neighborhood,

609
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: so we had to shoot anyone someone we saw in

610
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: the window of their house, you know, like it's that

611
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: kind of ship um which I guess it makes sense

612
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: that cops act the way they do because this has

613
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: always been the way people with guns and power act

614
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: everywhere through all time. Yeah so that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

615
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: So the ostensible purpose of all this carnage which to

616
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: put an end to North Vietnam's ability to wage war,

617
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: but a huge factor for both Kissinger and Nixon, even

618
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: larger than any actual like impact on the war itself,

619
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: was to preserve their personal power. Right after the bombing

620
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: of Cambodia began, Nixon sent Kissinger to talk with the

621
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: Soviet ambassador, a fellow named Dobrynan. In Henry Kissinger in

622
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: American Power, Thomas Schwartz writes, quote Kissinger put forward a straightforward,

623
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: put forth a straightforward domestic political account for Nixon's motivation

624
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: and thinking, noting that Nixon is not seeking a military victory,

625
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: but he cannot go down in American history as the

626
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: first U S president who have lost the war in

627
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: which the US participated. I mean, the honest, like you

628
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: think you'd at least lie about no, just the oh

629
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: my god, look, it's murdering. Demicide is one thing, Gareth,

630
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: but dishonesty, it's just it's disgusting. That's I feel like

631
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: a parent. Look someone kissing your drinks with you know

632
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: exactly exact mean, I just I would love to see

633
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 1: a version where he just keep up with a parents. Look,

634
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: you can't do we just Nixon hates losing. That's what

635
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: this is about. We can't take the people. Yeah, it's so.

636
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: Between March of nineteen sixty nine and May of nineteen seventy,

637
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: more than three thousand, six hundred and thirty raids were

638
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: flown across the Campboard Bodian border. Each was approved personally

639
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: by Henry Kissinger. The New York Times broke this story

640
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: to the American public for the first time in May

641
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine. Um so that's pretty good, right,

642
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: Like the New York Times actually is pretty shocking on

643
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: this and reveals what has happened. This prompts protests and

644
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: international outcry. That's one of the frustrating things about the

645
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: New York Times because there's a million things to be

646
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: angry at them all the time, and then it's like, oh,

647
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: and they also were the first people to reveal this

648
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: horrific crime against humanity because these spots where like, well

649
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: like it's like a broken clock though it's you know,

650
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: every now and then it's like a broken clock. But

651
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: when it's right, it's about like the massacre of civilians

652
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: on an industrent scale. But also when it's wrong, it's

653
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: about the massacre of civilians mixed bag um. So there's

654
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: immediately protests in international outcry. Armed students sees a building

655
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: at Cornell University, which is very based. Students at Kissinger's

656
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: own Harvard engage in a two week strike. Ever, pr

657
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: savvy Kissinger agreed to meet with student protesters in order

658
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: to prop up his image among liberals. He told them,

659
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: if you come back in a year and things haven't changed,

660
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: we won't have a morally defensible position. So like, hey,

661
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: you know, I know it's all funked up. I've got

662
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: to fix this whole messed up It's been going on

663
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: for years. You know I'm working on it. If you

664
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: come back and behind this figured the problem, there's a

665
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: cog in here, give me one year to kill all

666
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: the babies. And it also shows how fucking crazy you are. Like,

667
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: if you're doing this, you know you'd be like, look,

668
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: hide me. I do not want to talk to the

669
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: fact that he's like I would meet them. It's like us,

670
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: he knows him. I'll just tell him what's up. Black.

671
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: We gotta kill him. We gotta kill people for like

672
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: a year. Let's let's see how it goes. Give me here,

673
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bomb the ship out of just villages and

674
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: ship and kill a bunch of babies and ladies. Have

675
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: no idea how. It's just nice, nice to look at

676
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: the campus. You guys have changed a couple of things. Huh.

677
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: You guys just like you guys are like I heard

678
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: something bad. We're just getting started. But a year is

679
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: an amazing thing to say, what this it's on this, Look,

680
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: this is happening in the year, and we'll revisit. It's like, yeah, no,

681
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: not a year. You don't get to revisit this, you

682
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: revisit We should revisit where we are in the story

683
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: after this break. Yeah, let's revisit the sponsors of the show.

684
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: You know who else? You know who else need a

685
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: year to keep? Yeah, look, if if if has not

686
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: stopped the carpet bombing of Cambodia in a year, then

687
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: then you can cancel your subscription. You know, by the way,

688
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: talking to that's menus. Those are menu options. Very much like, Yeah,

689
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: it's very much like a white house visit with a

690
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: hell what do you want to make a case of doe?

691
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Or do you want to do this chickpeace? What do

692
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: you want to do it? There's options? You want to

693
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: do a flood bread mugga eagles though, we're back. So

694
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: there's congressional inquiries about the illegal carpet bombing. What are

695
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: they after? They what they smelled? Some smoke? I should

696
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: also note seizing Cornell offices with with arms, dope, actually

697
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: sitting down with Henry Kissinger to let him talk about

698
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: how things aren't really that bad, not dope. Maybe throw

699
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: a stapler in his face, you know something, hit him,

700
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: really try to hit him. You know, at least give

701
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: him a shoe. You know, you've got options from a

702
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: fucking baseball team at Harvard had to have been able

703
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: to hit him with a fastball. There are people that

704
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: if you're around you should Cheney Bush. You get around

705
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: certain people, you get close to him, you should fucking

706
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: hit them. Hit him. Look, Dick Cheney is basically like

707
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: a charging phone. Just unplug him at this point. What

708
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: happens whatever is turn on a microwave next to Hi.

709
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: Just just have a microwaving an extension cord to put

710
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: a popcorn and throw it in his lap. Yeah. Look,

711
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: we we we all know. Everybody here knows that eventually

712
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 1: Cheney and and Kissinger shed their human skins to become

713
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: one ball of energy. I think Kissinger currently is shedding

714
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 1: his human skin. If you've seen him lately, it looks

715
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: like he's halfway through the most crossed. Yeah, but the

716
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: two of the merge and then wings pop. Oh yeah,

717
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 1: I get it. So they kind of become like a

718
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: like a cerebus or something like that. Yeah, and then

719
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: they're one. It's like, let's get out of here. Finally

720
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: they got through form and then they they locate in

721
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: nuke microbiological life on Europa. No one has done yet,

722
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: so there's congressional inquiries. Kissinger gets brought before the Senate

723
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: where he assures everyone that Kimbodian territories bombed by the

724
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: U S we're all quote unpopulated. He knew this was

725
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: to lie at the time. We know from briefing documents

726
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 1: Kissinger received that he was warned into tail about such things.

727
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: The breakfast bombing target, he was told, was inhabited by

728
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: six and forty civilians. Dessert had three hundred and fifty.

729
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: Nixon initially, it's just like ice cream. Yeah, you wouldn't

730
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: get angry at me for bombing a baskin Robbins, would you.

731
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: There's no people there hates cake. It's called the magic shell.

732
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: So Nixon eventually initially blamed Kissinger for the leaks that

733
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: had revealed the story of the bombing of Cambodia to

734
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: the New York Times. Um, and this is because Kissinger

735
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: brings in a lot of like liberals, Like a lot

736
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: of Kissinger's staff are not Republicans, are not like right

737
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: wing guys. They're like Northeastern liberals. Because yeah, and then

738
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: this is charming print. They are not. But Nixon is like,

739
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: it must have been one of these East Coast liberals

740
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: you brought in that leaked at the Times. He right,

741
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: So he thinks it's an extension of Kissinger, not Kissinger. No, no, no,

742
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: he doesn't Kissinger. That would be someone's really up to something,

743
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: somebody's sucking around some But this like brain Woody Allen,

744
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: and he's funny, he's good. This is some good context

745
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: on how comprehensively shitty a person Kissinger is, how incapable

746
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: of real loyalty. He is. Thomas Schwartz writes that in

747
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: order to preserve his own position, Kissinger had to throw

748
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: large numbers of his team members under the bus quote.

749
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: Kissinger called FBI Director J Edgar Hoover and gave him

750
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: a list of those staffers in his office with access

751
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: to the information, telling Hoover that he would destroy whoever

752
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: did this if we can find him, no matter where

753
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: he is. Among the first to be wire wire tapped

754
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: was Morton Halperin, who had helped devise the NSC system,

755
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: Helmett Sonnenfeldt, Kissinger's fellow German Jewish refugee, and even Winston Lore,

756
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: the man Kissinger leader called his conscience on peign policy

757
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: issues and all. There would be seventeen FBI wire taps

758
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: up by the White House, thirteen on government employees including

759
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Kissinger staff, and four on newsmen, among them Kissinger's British

760
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: friend who was a reporter for the London Times. It's

761
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: a meteoric rock. It's like American idol level sudden impact

762
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: as far as because I mean, as you pointed to

763
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: he wasn't like this crazy. I mean he was crazy.

764
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: But now it's like he's just it's on Royd's the

765
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: level that he the level he's gotten to, and the

766
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: level of insanity that he's gotten to is really even

767
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: for this country historic. Yeah, it's um, it's pretty cool.

768
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: And just like it's great he is he's not capable

769
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: of even like treating his very loyal friends. Well. Um

770
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: so yeah, this would come back to bite Kissinger and

771
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: Nixon and the ass in the not too distant future.

772
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: But we're gonna take a while to get to that

773
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: because there's a lot in between there and now. So

774
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: let's return to Cambodia. It is worth noting that Operation

775
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: Menu achieved nothing. It was useless in a military sense.

776
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: The enemy commanded control facilities they were ostensibly trying to destroy.

777
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: We're never taken out. And it was useless from a

778
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: negotiating standpoint because North Vietnam did not bulge budge they

779
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: post they have teen seventy. Nixon decided to escalate again

780
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: by ordering a ground invasion of Cambodia. He announced this

781
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: with a typically unhinged speech. And again this is public

782
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: because at this point, you know, the New York Times

783
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: is revealed things. So we live in an age of anarchy.

784
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: We see mindless attacks on all the great institutions which

785
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: have been created by free civilizations in the past five

786
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: hundred years. That's happening because kids are like protesting incologists. Yeah.

787
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: Like yeah, he framed as a test of the nation's

788
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: quote will in character. Um. Seriously, he's right. When one

789
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: of his staff members Balkman Kissinger staff members balked it

790
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: plans to illegally invade Cambodi with ground troops. Troops, Henry

791
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: told him, quote, your views represent the cowardice of the

792
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: Eastern establishment. This staff member, William Watts, tried to physically

793
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: attack Henry Kissinger, who was hid behind his desk. It's

794
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: just like if that if he was only able to

795
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: just kill him. What imagine if only there'd been a

796
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: sharper letter opener on the desk just penned and put

797
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: it like a pen through his neck. Yeah. Um, it's

798
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: very funny that Kissinger did. It's some point have to

799
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: hide behind a desk to stop staff from a strong

800
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: bombing everywhere, and that he's hiding under his desk. Relax.

801
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: So this staff member Watts resigns right after this, and

802
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: when staff member Anthony Lake echoes Watts's concerns. Kissinger, presumably

803
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: still hiding behind his desk, calls Lake not manly enough

804
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: to do what was necessary, and Lake resigns too. Yeah,

805
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: bold words from behind, hiding behind a desk. Yeah, big

806
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 1: tough guy. Four days after Nixon's speech announcing the invasion

807
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: of Cambodia, four students were shot dead at Kent State

808
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: during a protest over the invasion. Nine more were wounded.

809
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: Two weeks later, at Jackson State, police shot into a

810
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: crowd of black students protesting the war. Two were killed

811
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: and twelve wounded. The invasion prompted some of the first

812
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: consequences and only consequences. Kissinger, ever, faced stern rebukes from

813
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: fancy academics he respected. A group of them, men who

814
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: had often acted as his brain trust and advised him

815
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: and other presidential advisors on issues, marched into his office

816
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: after the invasion. One of the men, Thomas Shelling, opened

817
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: by saying that he supposed he should explain who they were.

818
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: Kissinger responded with confusion that I know who you are.

819
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: You're all good friends from Harvard. Next from Nil Ferguson's

820
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: Kissinger no, said Shelling. We're a group of people who

821
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: have completely lost confidence in the ability of the White

822
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: House to conduct our foreign policy. And we have come

823
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: to tell you so we are no longer at your

824
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: disposal as personal advisors. Each of them then proceeded to

825
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: rate him, taking five minutes apiece. Now sounds at this

826
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: point if it's seen from Rudy when they all hand

827
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 1: in there, yeah, form to get ready to play. That's

828
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: it's like that. And this is stories like Rudy if

829
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: you have, um, oh god, what's his fucking name, I'm

830
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: spacing the West Wing motherfucker Aaron's description of him. If

831
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: Aaron Sorkin is writing this, this is like the heroic

832
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: moment where like the conscience of like the American ruling

833
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: class that comes in. It's like, this is not right, Henry,

834
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: and and really that's bullshit, that's not what's happening. And

835
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: Ferguson goes on to note that these guys were kind

836
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: of foolish it they're all Washington insiders. They have advised

837
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: Shelling advised LBJ to massively escalate violence throughout the war

838
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. Ferguson continues, and this is his explanation of

839
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: what they were really doing. Quote for these men publicly

840
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: breaking with Kissinger with journalists briefed in advance about the

841
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: breach was a form of self exculpay, not to say,

842
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: an insurance policy. A student radicals back on the Harvard

843
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: campus ran riot when new Stat told the Crimson, I

844
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: think it's safe to say we're afraid. He did not

845
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: specify of what others were more candid, as Shelling put it,

846
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: if Cambodia succeeds, it will be a disaster, not just

847
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: because my Harvard office may be burned down when I

848
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: get home, but it will even be a disaster in

849
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: the administration zone terms. So it's amazing it. Fox say, Yeah,

850
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, that's what this happens on the dollar

851
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: p a lot where I'm like, all right, we got

852
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: a hero, and then immediately I'm like more villains. God

853
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: damn it. I mean to the extent that there's some heroes,

854
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: the kids on these campuses who are actually like lighting

855
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: buildings on fire and destroying things. They do make Henry

856
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: Kissinger and his academic friends afraid and uncomfortable briefly, which

857
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: is more than anyone else does. Yeah, and what I

858
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: mean this this would kind of be the last time

859
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: that that even happens really, right, that like that that

860
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: people in the that level of power do feel any

861
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: sort of like threat from the regular folk. Yeah, credit

862
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: where it's do. They are the only people that I'm

863
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: aware of who made Henry Kissinger briefly feel something that

864
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: vaguely resembles shame. Yeah, like seriously good work. Um, But

865
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: of course you know that doesn't stop anything, obviously. You

866
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: know he's got Yeah, he's got he's got many desks. Yeah.

867
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: Uh So Cambodia falls into chaos as a result of

868
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: the as most places would when bombed on this level. Right,

869
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: hard to maintain a state with this level of things exploding. Um.

870
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: It is unclear precisely how many people die in Operation Menu,

871
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: the subsequent invasion of Cambodia and the bombing campaigns that followed.

872
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: The low estimate is fifty thousand. The high estimates are

873
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand. Thirty to

874
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: fifty thousand. Lotions die in the bombing campaign, which makes

875
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: the sparsely populated nation the most densely bombed place on Earth.

876
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: Of these bombs failed to detonate, and in the years

877
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: since the bombing, another twenty thousand people have died from

878
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: the estimated eighty million bombs left in the soil of

879
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: the victims or children. One Aid workers set of the situation.

880
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: There are parts of low where there is literally no

881
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: free space. There are no areas that have not been bombed.

882
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: And when you are in the villages now, you still

883
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: see the evidence of that. You see the bomb craters,

884
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: You still see an unbelievable amount of metal and wreckage

885
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: in an exploded ordinance just lying around in villages and

886
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: it's still injuring and killing people today. What a legacy. Now,

887
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,359
Speaker 1: If any of this concerned Niction and Kissinger, I would

888
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: like to just throw out there that I do feel

889
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: that gardening should be more dangerous. So yes, and nobody's

890
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: in disagreed about that, And we have enough bombs in

891
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: this country to make gardening a lot more dangerous. Yeah. Beans,

892
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: If if there's not a one in three chance digging

893
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: up a potato loses you a goddamn arm, you're not

894
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: really a gardener. So how are the tomatoes? Ken's dead?

895
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: If any of this concerned Nixon and Kissinger, we have

896
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: no evidence of it. We know that in nineteen seventy two,

897
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: Nixon asked how many did we kill in Lao and

898
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: the Press Secretary Ron Ziegler responded with the guests maybe

899
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: ten thousand fifteen. Kissinger agreed emotion in the lotion thing,

900
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: we killed about ten fifteen. This is how they talk

901
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 1: about the showcase showdown three to five, nine elevens worth

902
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: of people. Obviously, Uh, did you get like one bag

903
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: of grapes or two? Yeah? I had two bags of grapes.

904
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: What's the cover fee to get into that? To get

905
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: into that concert? It's like bucks, you know, yeah, except

906
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: this is they're they're just complete and total fucking psychopaths,

907
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: and they're off by a half at least. You know,

908
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: it's hard to get accurate, you know, death tolds here. Uh.

909
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: And the bombs were not the only thing left behind

910
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: by the campaign that Kissinger orchestrated. Greg Grandon writes defoliation

911
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: chemicals did their work just over a two week period

912
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: April eighteenth to May second, nineteen sixty nine. US dropped

913
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: agent Orange caused significant damage. Andrew Wells, who has long

914
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 1: been involved in relief aid to Southeast Asia rights. Both

915
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: the US government and independent inspection teams confirmed that a

916
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy three thousand acres were sprayed seven percent

917
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: of Kompong Cham Province, two thousand, seven hundred of them

918
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: seriously affected. The rubber plantations totaled approximately one third of

919
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: Cambodia's total and represented a loss of twelve percent of

920
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: the country's export earnings. Washington agreed to pay over twelve

921
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: million in reparations, but Kissinger tried to defer the payment

922
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: to fiscal year nineteen seventy two, when the money could

923
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: be paid without a specific without a special request that

924
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: would have revealed US cross border activity. Every effort Kissinger

925
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: road should be made to avoid the necessity for a

926
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: special budgetary request to provide funds to pay his claim.

927
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Look, we're gonna, we're gonna. We're gonna

928
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: get the money. You're gonna get the money. You're gonna

929
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: get the money. Of the money. I just need to

930
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: take this thing moved. Yeah, I need to move some

931
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: stuff around. Just but you're gonna get it. It's fine.

932
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: Let's just keep it on the on the d L,

933
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, it's yeah. He service

934
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: wasn't calling Trump Agent Orange, by the way. Uh, if

935
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: that wasn't his code name, that's a disappointment. That is.

936
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of reasons to be disappointed

937
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: in the Secret Service, but that is one of them.

938
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: So the loss of life and economic damage caused Cambodia

939
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: to spiral into chaos, or at least it was a

940
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: factor other stuff's going on. We have a couple episodes

941
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: about King Notre Dame Sahannock, who was a real piece

942
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: of ship in the king of Cambodia. In this period,

943
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: a lot's happening. Um, but unrest by the caused by

944
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: the bombings and the economic devastation helped to spark a

945
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: right wing coup, which was likely orchestrated with c I

946
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 1: a help and thus with the direct input. You guys

947
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: are looking to change things up here. We've got a plan,

948
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: We got an idea. Does no matter what happened someone by,

949
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: why don't we provide some help? Yeah, exactly. And the coup,

950
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: you know, overthrows the king, who then starts backing the

951
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 1: Khmer Rouge. Uh the win. Yeah, their counter revolution against

952
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: the right wing coup, and this leads to the establishment

953
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: of pulpots camer Rouge government YA. Once the Rouge took

954
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: over in nineteen seventy five, Nixon had left office. Kissinger

955
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: still though, was still in power. In November of nineteen

956
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: seventy five, he told Thailand's foreign minister, you should also

957
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: tell the Cambodians that we will be friends with them.

958
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: They are murderous thugs, but we won't let that stand

959
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with that.

960
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean we get we get kissing you.

961
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean my people murderous thugs. I'm all about murderous thugs.

962
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: I think we could find common ground. This man wants

963
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: to kill a million people. I think that is a

964
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: cute start. In nineteen eight, one questioned on this, Kissinger

965
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: explained that quote, the Tie and the Chinese did not

966
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: want a Vietnamese dominated Indo China. We didn't want the

967
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: Vietnamese to dominate. I don't believe we did anything for

968
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: Paul Pot, but I suspect we closed our eyes when

969
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 1: some others did sing something for Paul Pots. Of course,

970
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: the United States attempted at least to provide direct military

971
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: aid to the Khmer Rouge in order to help them

972
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: oppose Vietnam, and there's a lot of debate and uncertainty.

973
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: It seems that very little, if any actually made it

974
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: to the Cammer but this is primarily because of difficulty

975
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: getting shipped into Cambodia at this point in time. Um.

976
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: But it is fair to say that Kissinger and Nixon's

977
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: actions were crucial in creating the circumstances that brought Pole

978
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: Pot to power, and once he was in charge in

979
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: massacring people, they tacitly supported his government because they thought

980
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: it would sty me the Vietnamese. In total, from the

981
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: killing that started when the US bombing raids began, to

982
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: the people killed by pol Pot's regime to those who

983
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: died fighting in the fighting with Vietnam that finally brought

984
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 1: the rouge to an end, one point seven million Cambodians died,

985
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: more than a quarter of the population of the country

986
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: pre war. It's it's so incredible how their ideology of

987
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: just communism bad. They're like, well, communism will kill a

988
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: bunch of people, and they're just fucking everything they can

989
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,959
Speaker 1: to save people. Well, and it's also like they don't

990
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: even really believe communist because the Camaros your communist as hell,

991
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: and they're fine with working with them because Vietnam is

992
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: the ones who beat them, and so they're angry at Vietnam,

993
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: and it's like in Vietnam fights Cambodia, like it's not

994
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: there's no these people don't believe in anything. Yeah, there's

995
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: not good lessons to take from this, but um no,

996
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: it's it's someone should have stabbed Henry Kissingers, that's for sure,

997
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: because if that guy stabbed him. Yeah, there's so many

998
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: people we should have stabbed. There's so many, but Kissinger's

999
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: way up there, and and in this story right, like

1000
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: we're not Obviously you can't blame all of the deaths

1001
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: in Cambodia on Kissinger a lot, just like you can't

1002
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 1: blame all of the deaths in Vietnam on Kissinger and Nixon,

1003
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: but like just so many lead to which he's central

1004
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: to a lot of the worst actions in these wars well,

1005
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: And so the I I keep thinking about the point

1006
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: you made in the last episode where it you know,

1007
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: the idea that l b J, that that he broke

1008
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: up the l b J plan to sort of end

1009
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: all of this and just for political reasons made that

1010
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: not happen, and that just that the avenue that we

1011
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: are down now is just I mean, it's unconscionable. And

1012
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: there's there's so much. Also, we also besides just the

1013
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: straight bombings, we destabilize areas, we change the trajectory. Look

1014
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: putin is our fucking doing. Yeah, we fucking took out

1015
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: the government. We we Yelson all that ship that was

1016
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: a I'm not gonna let you sit here and touch

1017
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: it on Yelson. He was a very in control of

1018
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: what he was doing. He definitely knew what was happening.

1019
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't like having a bottle of smear enough in charge.

1020
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: Nothing that happened. Every everything we get involved with turns

1021
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: into a funk pie. I mean, it's just we just

1022
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,839
Speaker 1: create chaos, but we're murder midas. It's this, it's this

1023
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: thing where we're talking about like how how insane it

1024
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: is that Kissinger is micromanaging these bombings. Which is not

1025
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: to say that like the military men who were doing

1026
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: it before, we're particularly better. And this is the problem

1027
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 1: that like we're going to have, you know, with Ukraine

1028
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: and whatnot to it's just that, well, now we have

1029
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: all of these people who are supposed to be the

1030
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 1: people we call experts, who are now going to be

1031
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 1: doing things, and like if you actually look at their resumes,

1032
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: it is not a wide ranging history of successes, you know,

1033
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: and it is the same thing with Russia. You could

1034
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: look at like Russian intervention a bunch of places. It's

1035
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: a nightmare. The kind of people who are in a

1036
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: position to make calls when the conflicts get to this

1037
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: level are always gooules, and they're always bad at anything

1038
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: but causing devastation. And that's why all of this keeps happening. Um,

1039
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: because none of these people are any good at it,

1040
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: and no one gets punished and nobody ever. Yeah, the

1041
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: fact that Bill Crystal is still saying what anybody should

1042
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: do anywhere the world. You're like, what the fun is

1043
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: going on? Who gets to go? Who goes away? Who

1044
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: goes away? Favorite? I imagine I know somebody who lost

1045
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: their job at a grocery store because they got arrested

1046
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: protesting for like protesting against police violence. Um, meanwhile, Bill

1047
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: Crystals like a guest media show. Yeah, it's it's Bill.

1048
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: What do you think I mean? Um, Yeah, it's it's frustrating.

1049
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: Every now and then, far too seldom you get a

1050
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: story like that billionaire Russian arms dealer who's yacht got

1051
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: partially sunk. But there's like three of those stories for

1052
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: every thousand Kissingers um, and they don't ever mean anything

1053
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: because that guy can afford to fix his fucking yacht.

1054
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: So when they were they were egging Bezos his boat.

1055
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: When when he was getting that bridge torn down, Yeah,

1056
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: you're like, I mean people, yeah, it's like he's gonna

1057
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: have someone hose it down and that he's fine. Everybody.

1058
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: You look. Yachts burn. We know burn, that's the thing.

1059
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: Yachts burn, and so do Bill Crystals crystal, So I

1060
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: think it's like, yeah, actually when you burn and he

1061
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: just turns into a few crystals. So Greg Grand and

1062
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: author of Kissinger's Shadow, sees the bombing campaign in Cambodia

1063
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: and Lao is the terminal phase in what he calls

1064
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: the crack up of America's domestic consensus, which had begun

1065
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: under Johnson. Kissinger considered conditions in the country at the

1066
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: time of Kent State to be quote near civil war conditions.

1067
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: The paranoia Nixon had felt led him to push for

1068
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: illegal expansions of domestic surveillance, which eventually led to his

1069
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: ouster from office. The Senate investigation into the Watergate scandal

1070
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: concluded quote Kent State marked a turning point for Nixon.

1071
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: The beginning of his downhill slide towards Watergate, Nixon grew

1072
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: increasingly unhinged, which is a story for another time. Nixon

1073
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: starting to lose a gang. It is worth noting that

1074
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: for all of the things happening at this point, Nixon

1075
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: as as a rule, anytime I quote him and Kissing

1076
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: Kissinger talking, Nixon is as a rule, drunker than you

1077
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: have ever been. Like then, you have ever been. I

1078
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: don't care how how drunk you've gotten, you have never gotten.

1079
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: Nixon in the White House hammered. So with Kissinger's help,

1080
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Nixon cooks up a plan to pursue an arms control

1081
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: treaty in order to discredit his political rivals. Kissinger agreed

1082
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: that attacking the left was the right way to distract

1083
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: from the disaster they'd created in Southeast Asia. He told

1084
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: his boss, we've got to break the back of this

1085
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: generation of democratic leaders. Nixon responded in agreement, we've got

1086
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: to destroy the confidence of the people in the American establishment.

1087
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: Good news on that one, buddy. Yeah, you know what

1088
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: a rare swish. That is a hole in one for you,

1089
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: my friend, No nuts, Yeah, yeah. Re election in nineteen

1090
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: seventy two was always going to be dicey for Nixon

1091
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: and Kissinger. Nixon's plan was the infamous Southern strategy, cultivating

1092
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: racial resentment in order to turn whites into a reliable

1093
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: Republican voting block. There's a lot to be said about this. Obviously,

1094
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: we were just kind of breezing past it. But part

1095
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: of the strategy, part of his strategy for doing this

1096
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: to get these Southern whites on his side, was to

1097
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: continue carpet bombing huge chunks of the East Asia, even

1098
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: though this had no impact on the war's course, and

1099
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: he knew it. Grant And described the continued bombing as

1100
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: quote blood tribute paid to the growing power of the

1101
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: American right, and as yeah, just and I mean it

1102
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: is like I mean, it's it's what our politics is now,

1103
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: which is just constantly the optics on how to get reelected.

1104
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: It's just the number crunch on how do you get

1105
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: reelected by doing things illegally or you know, shifting prior

1106
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But yeah, change, yeah, whatever it is.

1107
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like we all know that war

1108
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: helps poll numbers, so well, some of them do, yeah, right,

1109
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: But I mean, in the in the short term, it

1110
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: seems like it's it's a short there's a short term

1111
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: gain to be made, certainly if you're on the right,

1112
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: for sure, and it it's um. It is worth noting

1113
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: because I always had this idea, even at past the

1114
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: point where I stopped believing Henry Kissinger was a hero,

1115
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: um that he was doing what he was doing in

1116
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia because they were like very specific, wonky things

1117
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: he believed about the conduct of the war and how

1118
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: to win it. He was just like willing to do

1119
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: these horrible things. But like, no, they know what's not

1120
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: winning the war. This is for votes. And Kissinger, so

1121
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're basically just saying it is just

1122
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: a a white supremacist thing. They're killing people of color

1123
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: to make whites in the South happy. That's all we're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1124
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 1: supremis is the country. But that doesn't fit on a

1125
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: lawn placard. Yeah, one of those like in this in

1126
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: this house, we believe in the next administration. We believe

1127
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: in covering up in order to And so it's worth

1128
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: noting to Kissinger isn't just micromanaging the the actual racist

1129
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: bombing campaign that they're doing to get votes. He is

1130
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: also the frontman Nixon sends out who talked to right

1131
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: wing leaders to to to try and like pump them

1132
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: up about this. Nixon sent him to talk to Ronald Reagan,

1133
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: then the governor of California. Kissinger sat down on Nixon's

1134
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: behalf with Billy Graham, with William F. Buckley, with God.

1135
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: His pattern went like this. The President wanted me to

1136
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: give you a brief call to tell you that with

1137
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: all the hysteria on TV and then the news on LAO,

1138
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,439
Speaker 1: we feel we have set up everything we set out

1139
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: to do. Destroyed more supplies than in Cambodia last year,

1140
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: set them back many months. We achieved what we were after. Well,

1141
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: I tell you, I really I can't wait to go

1142
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: out there. And rarely that was true. Sarah Hank having

1143
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: having just been doing some research. He is friends with

1144
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra. Frank, we call him on the phone. Yeah

1145
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: that sounds right, sounds right. Well, I get a nuclear weapon?

1146
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: Is that possible? Frank Sinatra with a nuke? That's yeah.

1147
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: There's no people left if that had happened. And Dan

1148
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: Martin's drink and they did a notice kissing you spent

1149
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: a particularly long time bragging to Ronald Reagan about the

1150
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: administration's achievements. Quote, we wouldn't have had Cambodia, we wouldn't

1151
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: have had Lao, and we wouldn't have had an eighty

1152
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: billion dollar defense budget, you know, without Nixon getting elected.

1153
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: He also told Reagan, we wouldn't have had m Chetica. Now,

1154
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: am Chetica is an island off the coast of Alaska

1155
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen seventies, the White House wanted to

1156
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: nuke it for a lot of complicated reasons. This is

1157
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: one thing. I'm actually I was not other islands, but

1158
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: specifically am Chitka. Yeah, we're like Amshitka. So the White

1159
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: House wants to nuke this island off the coast of Alaska.

1160
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: And as you have environmentalists and indigenous people who just

1161
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 1: folks whose brain freedom and hate freedom. Here's Greg Granton again.

1162
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: The test had no military or scientific benefit, but was

1163
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: seen as something of a ritual by the right, fireworks

1164
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: to celebrate the end of Johnson's presidency when many Hawks,

1165
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: like Curtis LeMay, felt the United States had fallen behind

1166
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: on nuclear development. Then, when public opposition to the detonation

1167
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: began to grow, Nixon had a chance to show conservatives

1168
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: that he would stand up to liberals. He let me

1169
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: known that we're the Supreme Court to issue an injunction

1170
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: against the test. He would go forward anyway. The Court

1171
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: didn't block the test, but haled him and told Kissinger

1172
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: to play it for politics anyway. Tell Reagan, we're taking

1173
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,479
Speaker 1: an unmitigated heat in order to keep that thing going.

1174
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: We need all the support of the right. Later after

1175
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: the test was conducted, Nixon met with Senator Barry Goldwater

1176
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: and mocked the fears of environmentalists. The seals are still swimming.

1177
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: The President said, I'm damn proud of you. Goldwater told him, honestly,

1178
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: I need to get a bucket to Barfen when people

1179
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: when people think like, oh, we've we've become dumb recently,

1180
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: We've always been so fucking stupid. It cannot be emphasized enough.

1181
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: We're just really dumb. I honestly, I I definitely thought

1182
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: that we've I mean, it is a show cocking level

1183
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: of dumb. It's the fact that it's just this dumb.

1184
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: It's just been going on an island because because they

1185
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: wanted fireworks. Yeah, because wanted fireworks, and it's just that

1186
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: they could tell Reagan it's like his gender reveal fucking

1187
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: party like right, right, Jesus Christ, it is worth noting

1188
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,919
Speaker 1: for the sake of talking about how dumb we still

1189
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: are today. Um. Curtis LeMay, who was one of the

1190
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: people cheering on the bombing of this random island, is

1191
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: essentially the hero of Malcolm Gladwell's book The Bomber Mafia,

1192
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: which talks about how cool the bombing apparatus we set

1193
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: up was and how it helped keep things peaceful and

1194
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: built the wonderful packs Americana. That's I'm sure these Cambodian

1195
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: civilians we've talked about appreciate it. Well, that's the one

1196
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: where you need to Once you have ten thousand bombs,

1197
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: you're an expert. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. That's right. If

1198
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: you dropped ten thousand bombs, you're an accident bombing. Yeah,

1199
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: that's that's exacts exactly So in order to be a

1200
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: well to do it right, you have to do it

1201
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: wrong for you gotta log the bombs. That's exactly right.

1202
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: Gre So. Part of what made Kissinger remarkable, though, was

1203
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: his ability to rope conservatives in line for mass murder

1204
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 1: while also charming the entire liberal establishment of the East

1205
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: Coast Nixon's chief of staff later recalled we knew Henry

1206
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: as the hawk of hawks in the Oval office. But

1207
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: in the evenings, a magical transformation took place, touching glasses

1208
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: at a party with his liberal friends, the belligerent Kissinger

1209
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: would suddenly become a dove, and the press, beguiled by

1210
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: Henry's charman humor, bought it. They just couldn't believe that

1211
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: the intellectual, smiling, humorous Henry the k was a hawk

1212
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: like that bastard Nixon. It really is all about like

1213
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: if if, if, if Donald Trump had had talked like

1214
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: an Aron Sorkin character and like quoted books that people

1215
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: don't read but no are smart books, he would have

1216
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: been the most popular president in a generation. Like well,

1217
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: and I mean that'll happen. Yeah, one of them will

1218
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: figure it out. Yeah, it will. And you got to

1219
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: dial the racism down a little, and you've got to

1220
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: dial the polite up and then kind of equalize them,

1221
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: and then you can yeah, and then and then with

1222
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: the right access to the right people in media. Yeah,

1223
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean we already saw that. I mean

1224
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: even under Trump, where you've got all these fucking reporters

1225
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,799
Speaker 1: who had these like bombshells about horrible crimes being committed

1226
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: that they like didn't release for a year and change

1227
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,520
Speaker 1: because they got a book deal. Yeah right right, Yeah,

1228
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: I mean John Bolton was basically just there to write

1229
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: a book. Yeah, everyone was. The whole administration was. Yeah,

1230
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 1: they're like fucking navy seals with the books. Yeah. So

1231
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 1: Kissinger's reputation was as a brilliant, computer brained policy want

1232
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: but his success came from his charm. He was able

1233
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: to win reporters over with a mix of leaks and

1234
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 1: effusive praise for their work, something that made them feel

1235
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: like insiders and thus sympathetic. He had a regular series

1236
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: of lunches with Arthur Slessinger, a liberal historian, whom he

1237
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: made sure to can confidentially inform quote, I have been

1238
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:02,640
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about resignation after the invasion of Cambodia

1239
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 1: Slashinger was not privy to the information that prooved Kissinger

1240
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: had planned the whole thing, so he believed Kissinger when

1241
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: Henry said that he'd only kept working for Nixon to

1242
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: prevent more damage to quote institutions of authority. Kissinger would

1243
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:18,839
Speaker 1: warn his liberal friends that if he resigned, Spireau agnew

1244
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: would run foreign policy. He was basically threatening, if I'm

1245
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 1: not here, the far right's going to be totally in

1246
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 1: power and foreign policy. I'm the only one keeping things

1247
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: from going crazy. It's like Sessions and with trying. I

1248
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: mean there are multiple people like that, Like the amount

1249
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: of times when people will be like, oh, mc masters,

1250
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, these are the good guys inside of that.

1251
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: You know, I hate this too. As he's drawing on

1252
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: a map where to annihilate. Yeah, yeah, and it works.

1253
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: It always works. It works, and it works over and

1254
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: over and over again. As a rule, if their job

1255
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: is to be a journalist who spends their time face

1256
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: to face with powerful people, they're bad at their job.

1257
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: As a rule. Every now and then you get an

1258
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: ext sception. But as a rule, no, it's like when

1259
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: Chomsky points out to that reporter that he has the

1260
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: rye he's sitting in that scene. Yeah, you get the

1261
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: odd people who are willing to like report on the

1262
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: Pentagon papers or whatever, and like, do you know you

1263
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: get or the Afghanistan papers Washington Post. Not to not

1264
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: to downplay the fact that there are people in those

1265
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: institutions who do do damning reports on on power, but

1266
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: also the level of complicity within the broader media apparatus

1267
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: means that even when you get a damning report on

1268
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: for example, the war in Afghanistan, which the Washington Post,

1269
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: if you've read that, it's utterly damning, didn't do anything,

1270
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, doesn't doesn't stop anything. They're very I mean,

1271
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: you know. And then and the reason why people do

1272
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: it less and less is because you're attacked. So, I mean,

1273
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: it works. The public attacks discredit you, and then you

1274
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 1: are you are what you are, You're no longer you

1275
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: no longer get access to that information. Yeah, it's great.

1276
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 1: So a good example of how Kiss changed his charm.

1277
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: As a speech he gave it M I T in

1278
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: January of nineteen seventy one. He started off by meaning

1279
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 1: a confidential air and telling the students that Nixon had

1280
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: not been his quote first choice, but that in time

1281
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: he'd come to see the bombing of Cambodia as the

1282
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: only quote sensible path towards the Vietnamization. Vietnomization is like

1283
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:13,680
Speaker 1: the process of the U. S getting out in South

1284
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 1: Vietnam taking over, Right, That's the big buzz word Nixon

1285
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: and his jury using when one student asked him what

1286
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: it would take to make him resign from the Nixon administration.

1287
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: Kissinger said he wouldn't quote unless gas chambers were set

1288
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 1: up or some horrendous moral outrage. Wait, wait, what is it?

1289
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Exactly? He wouldn't get out unless

1290
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: unless Nixon was setting up gas chambers. I mean, what

1291
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: the fuck? Like his child his childhood didn't affect him

1292
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: in any way. Yeah, outrageous, And it's confidence the student.

1293
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting because then the student who asked

1294
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: this question of Kissinger later realized, like, is there really

1295
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 1: a difference between forcing people into a gas chamber and

1296
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,959
Speaker 1: incinerating from them from the sky with a bombing campaign?

1297
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: I guess not. But at the moment, this doesn't really

1298
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: occur to him. And at the moment he writes quote,

1299
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: he had sounded so sincere, so sympathetic, so much one

1300
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: of us, And right, I'll blame the journalists, like I'm

1301
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,719
Speaker 1: not gonna blame a student for falling for Henry because

1302
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: like he's essentially still a child, and Henry Kissinger is

1303
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: the most powerful man in the world. Of course he's

1304
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: good at walk talking circles around these fucking kids. Um.

1305
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 1: The week after that speech, Kissinger and Nixon sent ground

1306
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: troops into Law after another massive round of aerial bombardment.

1307
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: This involved seventeen thousand South Vietnamese troops supported by US

1308
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: air power. It was a catastrophe. Eight thousand South Vietnamese

1309
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: soldiers were killed or wounded. The United States lost two

1310
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen men. Nixon considered it a victory because

1311
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: it played well with conservatives in the media. And he's drunk,

1312
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: he is, and he's he is, he just he just

1313
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: pounded back an entire bottle of vodka, before saying that

1314
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: when the media savage Law as a pointless blood bag,

1315
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: Kissinger ran to his boss and complained about vicious coverage,

1316
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: saying if Brittain had pressed like this in World War Two,

1317
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: they would have quitten forty two. Both Kissinger and Nixon

1318
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,719
Speaker 1: saw Law as a win because it benefited their domestic

1319
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: chances of re election. As Nixon told his right hand man,

1320
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 1: the main thing, Henry on Lao, I don't care what

1321
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: happens there. It's a win. See wind See as there's

1322
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: a little gangs three that's Ryan Henry Coppers. Oh. And

1323
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: as the re election campaign turned forward, Kissinger was about

1324
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: to help his boss engineer another win and this one. Boy,

1325
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 1: how do you think we've seen a body count so far?

1326
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god? What the fuck? But that's still morning.

1327
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: That island sweeps. Yeah yeah, now they're hitting sweeps. And

1328
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,799
Speaker 1: if you think hundreds of thousands of Cambodian dead plus

1329
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 1: eight ing in the deaths of another millionaire, so was bad.

1330
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 1: It was just it's really bad. It's a historic crime.

1331
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 1: But also Henry Kissinger's just getting started. So you guys

1332
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 1: want to plug anything my ears death. I remember because

1333
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: when I did an episode on our podcast about Tim

1334
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 1: Leary and there's a lot of the you know, uh Nixon,

1335
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: law and Order president stuff in there, and how drunk

1336
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 1: he was. But also his lunch every day was pineapple

1337
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,840
Speaker 1: circles with cottage cheese in the middle and um, and

1338
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: so that was his that was his daily drunk lunch.

1339
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: And then there's the one night where where he's starting

1340
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 1: to feel the heat. Well maybe I don't know if

1341
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 1: he'll get it into that, but he basically he goes

1342
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: out hammered with his valet and he goes and talks

1343
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: to some of the people protesting him, and like one

1344
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 1: of the wakes, one of these guys up and he's like,

1345
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 1: you really think I'm a bad guy, and the guy's

1346
01:14:52,520 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 1: just like the funk is going on? Right? Nixon now cruising. Yeah,

1347
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,719
Speaker 1: Well we'll um we as you know. Look, it sounds

1348
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,679
Speaker 1: like the world loves America after hearing some of this stuff.

1349
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,719
Speaker 1: So we will be going to Australia on a tour. Um.

1350
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: You can go to dollar podcast dot com for those

1351
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 1: tour dates. Will be touring America and um, even if

1352
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: we do badly, we won't bomb as hard as Kissinger Nixon. Yeah,

1353
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean it would be hard to it would be

1354
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 1: level I don't honestly, we still have a lot of bombs.

1355
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if we have enough bombs to bomb

1356
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 1: that hard anymore. I don't think so. I honestly think

1357
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: we could pull our pants down and fight with our

1358
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: penises and still people be like that. That's not that's

1359
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 1: I've seen. I've heard of where's bombings. I have seen

1360
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: a couple of cities leveled by American bombs at this point,

1361
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: and it's still not as much as fucking Lao got bombed.

1362
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, he cannot process it. And well I'm

1363
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: on the road to go to Gareth Reynolds dot com

1364
01:15:55,400 --> 01:16:00,080
Speaker 1: for tour dates. But it feels it feels wrong to

1365
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:04,600
Speaker 1: do that hard promotion. Well, it's great. Will put in

1366
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 1: a plug for the concept of death, because as long

1367
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 1: as as long as men die, you know, there's all

1368
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: of these ghouls eventually had to face the end of

1369
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 1: of of everything in the same way that that those

1370
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 1: people in Cambodia did. And one day will come for

1371
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger and he will be frightened and alone and

1372
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: and left. I feel like he bombed the reaper. I

1373
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: mean he like he is the level of melting. I

1374
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: mean he is. He dies. I hope he just I

1375
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,679
Speaker 1: hope he ships himself and then slowly dies over eight hours. Yes,

1376
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: it needs to be like that. He needs to be.

1377
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 1: It needs to be a letting. There's a you know,

1378
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 1: the one war criminal in all of history who got

1379
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: close to what he deserved is Yanhard Hydrich, the architect

1380
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: of the Holocaust, who stupidly charged a bunch of assassins

1381
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: and got wounded by a bomb and shot into his

1382
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 1: own guts for several days until he died of steps

1383
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 1: us over the course of a weekend. Change. That's that's

1384
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: the kind of death and and and not just kissing you.

1385
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 1: There's like thirty people we've named in this story. You

1386
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 1: deserve that kind of death. There's a lot of folks

1387
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 1: pot died old and relatively you know, unpunished. You know

1388
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 1: they all, most of them do. That would be great

1389
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: to hear a judge sentence Kissinger to that, like it

1390
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: would be due to shifting in your own guts for

1391
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: about a week after a bomb just embows you. That's

1392
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 1: that's the right, that's the right punishment for for this

1393
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:35,719
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Um, all right, yeah, yeah, Hi, everybody.

1394
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: Robert Evans here and my novel After the Revolution is

1395
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:42,639
Speaker 1: available for pre order now from a k press dot org. Now,

1396
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: if you go to a k press dot org you

1397
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: can find After the Revolution. Just google a k press

1398
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 1: dot org After the Revolution you'll find a list of

1399
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: participating indie bookstores selling my book. And if you pre

1400
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: order now from either these independent bookstores or from a

1401
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 1: k Press, you'll get a custom signed copy of the book,

1402
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,600
Speaker 1: which I think is real cool. You can also preorder

1403
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: it in physical or in kindle form from Amazon or

1404
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 1: pretty much wherever books are sold. So please google a

1405
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 1: k press after the Revolution um, or find an indie

1406
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: bookstore in your area and preorder it. You'll get assigned

1407
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: a copy, and you'll make me very happy.