WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Are Dinks Doomed to Loneliness in Old Age? 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:08.560 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.399 It's a little over a week into the new year, 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.240 but I'm still taking stock of the last year and 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.639 thinking about what I'll do differently for twenty twenty four. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:20.919 Like I said in the last episode, I'm not big 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.640 on New Year's resolutions, but I do like to think 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.599 about how to improve my life and how to move 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.840 forward and be better, just have a better year than 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.160 I did the last year. I had a really mixed 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.160 twenty twenty three, Like I think a lot of people. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.240 My book Stolen Youth came out in March, and honestly, 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.240 it was a hit. My co author and I made 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.880 multiple bestseller lists. We were all over TV and radio. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.320 I toured all over the country for months, and I 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.279 spoke to so many groups, did so many different events. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.760 It really went well. That same month that the book 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.880 came out, we had about Mitzvah for our daughter. About 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.840 Mitzvah is a Jewish rite of passage. It's a religious 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.440 ceremony that commemorates the child becoming a grown up, and 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.040 it usually comes with a party about the size of 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.120 a wedding. Actually it was about three times the size 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.960 of my own wedding, and it was quite a lot. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.520 It was amazing. It all went really great. But the 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.560 book and the butt Mitzvah, they were beautiful, amazing, but 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.720 extremely stressful, and it was a stressful time in the 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.280 last year that I still haven't quite gotten over. Then 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.040 we launched this podcast in October. I had had offers 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.240 to do my own show over the years, but I 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.080 really never entertained one until this. And look, it's going great. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.480 So many of you are out there listening. I hear 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.760 from you, and I feel so lucky. I'm busy all 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.640 the time, and it's a good busy, but it's still 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.440 quite a lot. I had eye surgery in May that 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.200 forced me to take a few weeks off, but otherwise 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.920 I have never worked more in my life than I 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.480 did in twenty twenty three. In a lot of ways, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.760 it was a very very good year. But the truth 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.040 is that all of that stressed me out, and I 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.720 didn't sleep that great for a lot of it. I'm 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.560 not an anxious person. I'm very chill, but i'd feel 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.520 this anxiety in my sleep about all the things that 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:17.840 I needed to get done, and there was no real 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:19.680 reason for the stress like I'd wake up in the 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.240 morning after a night of stressing about something and think 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.920 that's a really silly thing to be worrying about, and 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.119 I'd shake it off and I'd go on about my day. 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.280 You Know something I think about a lot is that 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.840 when I was at the lowest points of my life, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.120 like when I was unemployed and single and had a 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.160 whole lot of nothing going on, I was sleeping super 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.080 well and I didn't worry about anything. I didn't have 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.720 anything to lose. So then the October seventh attacks happened 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.960 in Israel, and my sleeplessness and stress they take on 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.920 a more specific focus. The attacks really rocked my world, 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.560 as I think they did for a lot of Jews, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.480 you know, around the world. Beyond the horrific images and stories, 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.200 I'd spend a lot of night thinking about how to 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.760 raise Jewish children in a world where so much hate 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.120 is aimed at them. And I go back and forth 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.320 between wanting to build a fortress around them and wanting 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.639 them to go out into the world and be themselves 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.640 with pride and no fear. In side note, I learned 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.359 to shoot this year. I'm an optimistic person, but I'm 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.520 not a foolish one. My people have been unarmed sitting 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.360 ducks too many times throughout our history. Not us, not 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.440 this time. I say all this because it's possible to 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.920 have a universe of good, very good really exist alongside 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.640 a lot of bad. Life just isn't one way or another. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.600 We're all carrying a lot of stuff around with us. 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.360 For twenty twenty four. I know the things I need 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.880 to do to comfort myself and calm myself when I 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.520 get to dark places. For me, for one thing, it's 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.480 unplugging from Twitter first and foremost. And look again, nothing 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.360 is all good or all bad. I love Twitter. I 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:57.960 get a lot out of it. I've met a lot 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.800 of friends through it, see it as my social since 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.600 I work from home. But I get to where I'm 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.680 on it way too much, consuming way too much news 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.160 and minutia, And I used to have arguments on there, 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.320 but I don't even really do that anymore. It's just 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.840 the amount of information becomes too much and it's time 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.520 for a break. So I take vacations where I unplug 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.480 from Twitter and I spend more focused time with my family. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.000 And this gives me such a sense of calm. Does 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.360 that mean I never yell at my kids, like no, 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.720 I yell quite a bit. But being together, cooking, watching movies, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:33.520 all of that it leads to a really great feeling 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.880 of calm and togetherness that helps me sleep better. The 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.240 last thing for me is reading fiction. I go through 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.719 years without reading any fiction because my world is really 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.680 a world of nonfiction. I'm into the political world and 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.520 into social and cultural issues, and this is all the 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.400 nonfiction space. But when I don't read fiction for a 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.920 long time, for me, it's a mistake. Nonfiction books are great. 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.800 I love learning new stuff. I love not fiction also, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.919 but the weaving of a beautiful story, immersing myself in 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.680 someone else's life for a while, it's so good for me. 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.560 I read two books overbreak and they were just fantastic. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.120 I forgot the writer's names, but one was called The 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.440 Family and one was called City of Thieves. They were 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.240 both recommended to me by my Twitter followers, and I 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.760 really love them. Both books were fantastic, City of Thieves particularly. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:27.599 I'm going to be thinking about that one for a 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.760 long time. I hope that in twenty twenty four we 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.840 all can balance the good and the bad and focus 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.240 on what brings us happiness and calm. That's my wish 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.920 for all of you, and that's my wish for myself too. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.640 Coming up next an interview with Emily's Nati. Join us 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:49.359 after the break, Hi, and welcome back to the Carol 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:54.120 Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Emily's Nati. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.200 Emily is a writer and her substack is called because Ovs. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:00.680 Thanks so much for coming on, Emily. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:02.159 Thanks for having me. 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.600 So there's been this phenomenon on social media of dinks, 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.400 which means a couple who is dual income, no kids, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.120 and the pushback to that has been people commenting that 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.760 these people will be unfulfilled or alone as they age. 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.960 And I saw a tweet of yours where you had 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.520 some thoughts on that, and I was like, Oh, I 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.279 have to have Emily on to talk about it because 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.800 I thought it was unique. Tell me your thoughts. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.880 So my thoughts were, well, first off, the dank thing. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.039 This isn't to say it about all double income no 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.920 kids families. These are like, specifically the ones that are 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.920 on TikTok in what feels like a gigantick coat. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.839 Right, it's a great way to phrase it. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.440 My life is so amazing because my kids don't wake 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.240 me up at nine am, and I can have all 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.120 this money and I go eat fancy dinners and all 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.240 these things that I still do with children, that right 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.680 here saying I was never supposed to be able to do. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.480 But my thought was, and sort of over the last year, 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.880 I've had a lot of experience with death, and I 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.200 kind of felt like, look, if all you're doing to 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.080 be fulfilled at the end of your life is making 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.720 people that are required to be there, that's not really 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.480 being fulfilled. Like, there's plenty of people who have kids 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.360 whose kids will not be there and they're dead, And 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.360 there's certainly plenty of people who don't have kids who 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:38.440 will be surrounded by love and all love this wonderful 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.160 stuff as they exit this life. And so for me, 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.120 I just felt like people were saying that the only 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:46.920 way to have a good life or to have a 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.400 good death was to have children, and you just need 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.600 to have a good life really, not not necessarily just kids. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.320 Right, I'm not having kids to be like there for 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.920 me when I'm bored in my older age. I fully 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.160 agree with that. I'm obviously very pro having children, but 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.720 the idea that they fulfill you or will be your 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.240 companions as you get old. Rubs me the wrong way. 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.040 I know very fulfilled and happy people without kids, and 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.240 I know miserable parents. I also don't like the whole 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.440 making kids your whole life. You want to have a 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.720 life when they grow up too, And the thing is 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.600 that I want my kids to go out into the 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.960 world and have their own lives and not, you know, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.600 not be my like little caretaker as they get you know, 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:39.080 as I get older. So I really loved that you 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.839 mentioned that about a year ago you had a traumatic 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.520 near death experience. What happened and what's changed in your 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:46.200 life since then. 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.079 So I had I had one of those Chicago MD 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.880 or Chicago ER kind of like should be a primetime 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.760 television special, and I went to the emergency room for 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.360 what I thought was food poisoning and it ended in Chicago, 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.440 well in Nashville here, you know, Nashville. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.000 Okay, okay, but I get it. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.440 Yeah, So I watched Chicago MED so that was what 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.280 was in my But it was one of those where 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:16.959 I went to the ar thinking I was having food 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.960 poisoning and I ended up having a ruptured topic pregnancy 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.920 and was rushed into emergency surgery. And had to get blood, 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:29.960 and at one point they actually called priest. They said, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.040 are you Catholic? Are you Christian? Do you have some 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.720 belief system so that we can call somebody in case 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.679 things don't go the way they are, so they can 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:42.920 give you last row. And I was not in a 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.280 position to say yes, because I thought everything was still 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.080 fine and dandy. And my husband was like, oh my god, yeah, yeah, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:53.400 priest in here, and so that kind of gave me 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.040 a different perspective. I woke up the next morning thinking 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.800 what have I done with my life? What does it 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.360 look like? What am I doing with my life? What 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.080 is my job right now? And how do I change 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.080 that and make it better so that I wake up 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.080 in the morning and I feel like I'm fulfilled, and 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.080 I feel like if I do get hit by a 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.679 bus or a bike messenger, which is right, I always 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.120 thought I was going to die when I lived in. 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:21.520 The city, Like what if I do, Yeah, people show 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.840 up at my funeral and Hilde actually miss me. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.520 So it did change my perspective quart of it. 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.040 Yeah, I think about that a lot, not just the 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.959 bike messenger part, but you know, the spending your time 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.160 here in a way that is you know you're not 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:42.080 going to regret anything when you go, and that you 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.959 know that we do only have so much time here, 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.080 which I guess leads me to a question that I 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.240 always ask people is do you feel like you've made it? 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.120 Especially after what's happened to you. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.000 I don't think I ever will fill that I've made it. 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.120 I had a crazy imposter syndrome, and I'm amerd or 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:01.760 I'll tell you I'm a writer, but I've had all 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:06.480 these bylines, so I actually have a crazy imposter syndrome. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:07.959 So I don't think I will ever feel like I've 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.559 made it, but I did in that conversation about the 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.360 Dinks when I was talking about I feel like if 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.840 my kids can make it, If my kids get to 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.440 the point in their lives for they are successful enough 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.120 to afford therapy for all the things I've done to 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.000 them up until that point, that is when I think 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.000 I will feel like I will have been successful in 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.960 my life, and then I can, like one my husband 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.640 and I moved to Marguerite Deville and play pickleball and 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.920 collect ceramic cats or whatever I want to do. You 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.440 love it like twenty years of my life, you know, 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.720 But that's when I feel like I'll have made it, 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:47.439 I think. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.199 How would you define imposter syndrome for people who might 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.400 not know what that means? I know very well what 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.360 that means, because I think there's not a writer out 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.840 there who doesn't suffer from it. But how do you 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.439 describe it? 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.679 It's sort of of this feeling that all the success 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.800 that you've had, all of the things that you've done 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.920 in your life that look good on paper, that really 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:16.320 everybody's just been fooled, that you're you're so incredibly good 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.960 at fooling everybody, and one day this house of cards 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.319 is just going to come down around you, and people 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.560 are going to see you for the loser and the 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:31.760 faker in reality, Like if I truly was able to 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.200 fake all of that to write a point. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.520 Like the most successful ever, you'd be like, they're just 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.679 a billionaire running like your own you know, evil layer 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.040 And yeah. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.520 But you know, it doesn't change that. I wake up 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.520 in the morning and I'm like, who am I? Why 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.200 do people care that they know my name when they 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.439 see me out somewhere? But yeah, you just basically recognized. 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.080 Do you get recognized lot? Like do you live a 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:01.840 public life? 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.480 My kids get recognized all the time, and now that's 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:12.640 also recognized. I seen you on the internet. They're like, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.240 I've seen that kid on the internet. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.160 Yeah, that's definitely. I feel like i'd recognize your kids 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:25.199 if I saw them, for sure, I would do you. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.280 You know, it's funny that you say the therapy thing, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.640 because I feel like parents usually feel like they're not 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.880 making any mistakes, Like I can't even imagine what my 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.679 kids would tell the therapist, like she was a perfect mom, 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.120 Like it could not be better a plus, you know. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.040 So I think it's so funny that you like, uh, 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.560 imposter syndrome your parenting. Maybe because your kids seem very 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.880 very happy, and you know, I bet that they would 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.079 say quite nice things about you to the therapist MP or. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.000 Maybe I've done something that I don't know, you know, 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.120 like somewhere along the line they're going to say, you know, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.520 she put she put this one thing that we did 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.200 on the internet and everyone thought it was so cute, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.120 but it was really super embarrassing. So now she's ruined 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.959 my life. And now I teach yoga. 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.720 I'm aving by the river, not yoga yoga. I'm terrible. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:19.760 Yeah, so you never know, I don't. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.040 Know, yeah, I mean, you don't ever know. I I 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.440 do think about, like, what are my kids going to 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.200 complain about? Like, because you know, compared to like my childhood, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.480 they seem to be having just this like amazing life, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.960 and I you know, I can't even imagine what they 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:37.920 have that they're going to hold against me. I'm sure 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:39.040 they're going to find something. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:39.240 Like. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.480 Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive. I just always 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.600 wonder like, oh, what's it going to be? What is 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.280 it going to be? Did I give them too much? 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:47.400 Like? 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:48.880 Oh, she just loved us too much. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.960 She was constantly loving us too much. She kept telling 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.120 me she loved. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.960 Me right, and like anybody notes how embarrassing. 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.200 Yeah, exactly. She she cooked with us, She taught us 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.080 how to cook, She taught function as adults. Why didn't 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.200 she have a child. I don't know. I don't know. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.040 They're gonna be like years from now, they're gonna be 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.400 like all my friends got xboxes at age six, and 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.840 I was being told to go outside. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.600 That's true, they might say that, but like I'm ready 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.080 to defend that stance. You know, yes, you're not getting 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.920 the xbox at age six, so you you moved to Nashville. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.200 But you moved I want to say before the pandemic. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.040 Right, it was just after the pandemic. 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.400 Oh, it was just after the pandemic. Okay, so you 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.560 were part of the great migration. How's it been. 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.640 It's been amazing, so amazing that we actually purchased a 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.960 house here. We didn't think that we love it, stay here. 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:49.280 We like you guys, we were stuck in a city. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.840 We were in Chicago and downtown and everybody was very 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.520 nervous and tense and yeah, and we couldn't eat outdoors, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.360 we couldn't go to the mall. We couldn't do a thing. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.240 We took one step down here and walked outside, and 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.440 there's crowds that we hadn't seen crowds in a year. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.480 Were you like, you guys are all going to get COVID? 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.720 I was like, why isn't anyone wearing masks? And then 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.880 I was like, oh, because that's really stupid. Yes, yes, right, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:25.360 m So we we moved down here just after the pandemic, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:26.920 and we thought we would rent a house for a 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.920 while and we go back to Chicago to raise our 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.920 kids where we were raised. And we got a year 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.480 in and we were like why would we leave this place? 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:38.040 Right? 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.960 Yeah, and our old neighborhoods in Chicago are now overrun. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.520 We would have had a migrant shelter just down the street. 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.680 We would have had our jackings all over. My husband 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.160 somebody that he went to high school with was running 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.240 a drug house two blocks from where we were living 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:56.840 at the time. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:03.720 Nice and where to go? All right, maybe you. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.000 Know the drive through down the street. We found a 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.399 good school for our kids here. I don't have to 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.720 homeschool them because I'm not worried about what they're going 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:13.480 to learn in school. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.840 Huge. Yeah, huge? Have you made friends? 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.720 Some friends? Some friends? We have a couple friends. And 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.119 then we moved into this neighborhood where everyone is really 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.800 determined to be our friend, which is really hard because 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.320 I'm I have an introvert. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:31.520 Are you okay? 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.480 And everyone is just really determined that we should be 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.119 a part of the social culture here. Yeah, that's great. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.000 And so they're forcing me to become friends. 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.680 Forcing you to enjoy your community. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.840 Terrible people, terrible, horrible people who put on parties and 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:50.840 parades and halloweens. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.560 And yeah, We're going to take a quick break and 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:59.840 be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. On the show, 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:01.800 I've interviewed a lot of people who have, you know, 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.120 made the moves, and we've been sort of honest about, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.639 you know, pluses and minuses and making friends and starting 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.120 over in adulthood and all of that. So what's been 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:12.639 kind of the biggest challenge for you? 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.679 The biggest challenge here is finding a community. I think 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.359 they call it the third place. You know, you have home, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.080 you have work, and then you should have some third Yeah, 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.160 and in Chicago we had that. We had a neighborhood bar, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.360 we had a church, we had places that my husband 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.320 grew up in the same neighborhood that we lived in. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.720 So we had sort of a ready made community there. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.120 And making your own community, it turns out, is really 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.159 hard and finding a new place, finding a new place 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.159 that you can go to to hang out, finding a 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.920 new church was really tough here. It took us about 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:58.640 a year. So it was that initial loneliness I think 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.160 of moving to a new place. You have no roots, 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:03.600 nothing to fall back on, Like, was it the best 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.399 bar in the world. Were they the best friends in 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.320 the world. I don't know, I get that. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.840 Yeah, a local bar, Yeah, I know what I need 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.320 a local bar. I've been doing this all wrong. I 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.320 have like looked for other things, but not a local bar. 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:19.359 And I think you're You're absolutely right, that's what I 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:19.880 should have. 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.160 But rest they know your name? 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.879 Yes, well, restaurant I have that we have as we 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.879 have a few restaurants where they know our names. But 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.080 that's really interesting. You know what else is really interesting 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.359 is that I know you're a Catholic, right right about that? Okay? 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.399 So yeah, I always thought you're saying, you know, finding 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.439 the right church. Like so there's all these sects of Judaism, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.119 and you know, so being a Jew is like, you know, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.919 you're finding the right like you know, first your your 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.879 kind of domination and then within that, like the right place. 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.080 And then I think that's probably also true for Protestants 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.199 that I always assumed for Catholics it would be like 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.679 all the churches would be relatively the same. Is that correct? 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:08.240 So we kind of have unofficial internal denominations. So there's 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.480 that a more liberal type of Catholicism that kind of 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.520 popped up in the sixties and seventies, and then. 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.439 We have sort of a more vagemination or it's just 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.520 this kind of liberal you just have to know it 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.200 when you just have to know it when you see it. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.960 There's a lot of elbaters and acoustic guitars and everybody 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.280 loves everybody. It's very very I hate to say the 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.879 word boomer because people get mad about it when I 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:32.800 say it, but it's boomer. 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.359 I see boom. Okay, okay. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:39.880 Then there's very orthodox traditional Catholicism with the Latin Mass, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.600 and where we came from in Chicago, we were more 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:45.720 on that side, but then we went to the Latin 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.719 Mass here and it was one of those where people 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.840 came from long distances to get to the church. So 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.440 really they got there, they went to Mass, they left, 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:57.960 there was. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.760 Nothing got it. 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.920 Were inviting and then we ended up Ultimately we ended 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:05.680 up at the cathedral. It took us about a year. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.639 We just decided to try the downtown cathedral one morning 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.560 and the lady who was sitting next to us gave 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:18.800 my kids little holy cards and they introduced themselves. And 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.480 now we are. I bring my kids, they sit in 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.440 the front row. I always say, you know, I have 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.600 to be I have to be evangelizing to them or 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:32.200