1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: M This is Mesters in Business with Very Results on 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Here. I know I say it every week, 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: but really this week I have an extra special guest 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: straight from the White House. Brian Deese is the Director 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: of the National Economic Council. He is essentially the chief 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: economic advisor to the President of the United States, and 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time discussing the President's new 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: Council on Competition, which is a very, very big deal. 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: It's going to be a big driver of policy from 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: the executive branch over the next four years. And we 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: really got deep into the weeds. We talked about everything 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: from farmers to employee contracts, to net neutrality UH, to 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: the right to repair your own um products that you buy, 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: to you know everything, any trust enforcement. It really was 15 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: a policy wonks delight. If you're remotely interested in economic competition, 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: any trust enforcement, employee contracts, well you're gonna find this 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: to be absolutely fascinating. With no further ado, my conversation 18 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: with the National Economic Council's director, Brian Diese, this is 19 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: Mesters in Business with Very Results on Bluebird Radio. This week, 20 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: I have an extra special guest. His name is Brian 21 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: dies He is the Director of the National Economic Council 22 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: at the White House and essentially the chief economic advisor 23 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: to President Biden. Previously, he was the global head of 24 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Sustainable Investing at black Rock, and he was President Obama's 25 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Senior advisor for Climate and energy policy. Brian Diese, welcome 26 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: back the Master's in Business. Thanks Erry, It's great to 27 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: be here. So, so let's start with your role in 28 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: this new administration. You are the thirteenth director of the 29 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: National Economic Council. I think most people are more familiar 30 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: with the Council of Economic Advisors. Tell us a little 31 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: bit about this group, what it does, and how it 32 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: differs from the c e A. So the National Economic 33 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: Council was created by executive order in the early nine 34 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: nineties with the goal of having a White House entity 35 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: that could coordinate economic policy on behalf of the president 36 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: the Some people think about the c A, but I 37 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: think that the more natural analog is the National Security Council. 38 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: So the National Security Council existed in the White House 39 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: as a way of coordinating policy on national security and 40 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: foreign policy issues. The National Economic Council was modeled to 41 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: do the same for UH for both domestic and international 42 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: economic uh priorties. So if you go back and you 43 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: read the executive order that was creating early the early 44 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: it founds pretty true to today. So what does that mean? 45 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: Number One, have an effective way to coordinate and aggregate 46 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: the views of all of the key economic policy principles. 47 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: The Secretary of the Treasury, the Chair of the Council 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: of Economic Advisors are Commerce Secretary or Labor Secretary, and 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: down the line, create a common table around which we 50 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: can debate and discuss and provide the president clear policy 51 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: recommendations and clear economic advice, and at the same time 52 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: have a coordinated way to take the direction from the 53 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: President about his views and his his direction on the 54 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: economy and drive that across the broad inter agency of 55 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: the executive branch. To your question about the Council of 56 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: Economic Advisors, the Council of Economic Advisors is designed as 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: a almost an internal think tank of economists and experts, 58 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: many of whom came out of academia and spend one 59 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: or two years at the Council and provide an analytical 60 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: base and an economic base to think through issues, to 61 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: provide analysis um and really be a kind of thoughts center. 62 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: Nash Economic Council is really designed to coordinate bringing those 63 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: views to the table, but also um connecting them to 64 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: the legislative and political realities that we're operating in to 65 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: try to get the best outcomes possible in service of 66 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: the president schools. So, so let's talk a little bit 67 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: about your boss, the President and some of his goals. 68 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: Last week, he signed an executive order to quote, promote 69 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: competition in the American economy. We've kind of become used 70 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: to these sort of one page or photo ops for 71 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: executive orders, but that was not what this was. It's 72 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: a seven thousand word, seventy two bullet point document and 73 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: and it's very serious policy initiative. Tell us what was 74 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: the thinking behind rolling out this new policy this way? Well, 75 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: I appreciate you counting words and actions, because we're we're 76 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: certainly focused on that as well. But we're really excited 77 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: about this executive order, and it's based on a kind 78 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: of very simple but important intuition, which is that having 79 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: fair and open competition is a fundable, fundamental ingredient of 80 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: a healthy capitalist economy. It's what actually drives better outcomes, 81 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: lower prices, higher wages, more innovation, more economic growth, and 82 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: so the core goal of this executive order is to 83 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: reset across the entire executive branch a focus on where 84 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: and in what ways can we encourage healthy competition in 85 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: service of achieving those outcomes lower prices, higher wages, more innovation. 86 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: And what we've seen across time is that our economy 87 00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: has gotten less competitive. UM. We have a larger umber 88 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: of our industries that are now more concentrated than they 89 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: were twenty or thirty years ago. We've seen the rate 90 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: of new business formation, particularly small business formation, fall by 91 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: almost since the nineteen seventies. And if you look across industries, 92 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, in in me packing or in 93 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: broadband internet, UM, consumers choices have been constrained and we 94 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: haven't seen that kind of the follow through benefit that 95 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: at least has been argued by folks who say, you know, 96 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: more consolidation will actually generate lower prices for consumers. We 97 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: haven't seen that either. In fact, if you aggregate up 98 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: the impact of consolidation to an American household in terms 99 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: of prices and wages and other attending costs, you know 100 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: the best estimates so that it's costing about five thousand 101 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: dollars a year for the typical household. So the goal 102 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: of this executive Order is to say, how can we 103 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: start to get at that? And fundamentally, this is this 104 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: is it's it's this is not about being pro business 105 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: or anti businesses about being pro competition. A lot of 106 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: the ideas in this Executive Order are actually deregulatory in nature, 107 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: trying to remove some barriers to entry that actually keep 108 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: workers from more effectively moving and competing for jobs or 109 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: new businesses to enter into new markets and grow and 110 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: gain market share as a result. So that's the that's 111 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: that's the at a high level, that's our goal. But 112 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: you're right, um, we we wanted to take a really 113 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: serious effort to go agency by agency and look where 114 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: where the challenges, what are the tools that we have, 115 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: and how could we advance the ball. It looks different 116 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: in different agencies. There's a lot uh to unpack here, 117 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: but that's the goal at the high level. And I 118 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: have to tell you that's a shocking number. The lack 119 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: of competition caused by industry consolidation and concentration plus the 120 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: average American family five thousand dollars a year, that that's 121 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: a giant number. Yeah, and you when you just strow 122 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: it down. You know. That's that's a if you you know, 123 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: but I also would say embedded in that is a 124 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: big opportunity because if we can actually break down some 125 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: of those barriers and we can encourage better competition, what 126 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: that means is that we have a way of, um 127 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: actually boosting economic outcomes for the typical family in a 128 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: significant way. But that sounds pretty esoteric, but you break 129 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: it down into very practical things. Um, something like hearing. 130 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: It's today, you need to get a prescription. You need 131 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: to go to a doctor and get a prescription. You 132 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: can't buy hearing it's over the counter. There's almost fifty 133 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: million people in the country who have some form of 134 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: hearing loss. Um. A lot of those are older, but 135 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: a lot of younger people as well. UM. And that 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: requirement operates, you know, as economists say, as a barrier 137 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: to entry. And so what that means is that it 138 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: just costs a lot more. It's also a hassle, but 139 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: it costs a lot more to get hearing. It's so 140 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that this executive order directs is 141 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: to plement a rule to allow hearing aids to be 142 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: bought over the counter. What that's gonna do is it's 143 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: going to make it easier for those fifty million people 144 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: to get hearing aids more cheaply. But we also hope 145 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: it will spur innovation by reducing that barrier to entry. Now, 146 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: new companies, new market entrance, can come in and innovate 147 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: in providing hearing aid products at a lower price point, 148 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: and so that that that's just one example. Could you 149 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: think about how that five thousand dollars aggregates up. That's 150 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: one very practical example, but HiT's a lot of people 151 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: in their daily life not only can you not only 152 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: can you you know you have a little less hassle 153 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: that you can just go to the pharmacy and buy 154 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 1: a pair of hearing aids. But overwhelmingly we know that 155 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: room removing a barrier like that will make it cheaper 156 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll generate more innovation and more opportunity for 157 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: new business entrance to you know, succeeded. That's really interesting. 158 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: Let's let's talk a little bit about part of this 159 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: executive order, which is the formation of the President's Council 160 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: on Competitiveness, beginning with the Council membership. This is this 161 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: is quite a list. It's the Secretary of Treasury, the 162 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense, the Attorney General, Chair of the FTC, 163 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: Chair of the Consumer Financial Protection Board FCC, Agriculture, Commerce, 164 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: on and on. It's practically the full cabinet. Why so 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: broad a membership? What what's the thinking behind that? While 166 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: you're making me realize, I'm gonna have to get a 167 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: bigger office to get everybody around the table, particularly now 168 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: that we can um start to do these convenings in person. Look, 169 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: the idea of this was pretty simple, which is over 170 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: the last several months, where we have done is we've 171 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: run a process of going out to agencies and understanding 172 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: from the agencies where the where their authority exists in 173 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: terms of competition policy or antitrust um and how they 174 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: think it could be better deployed in service of encouraging 175 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: competition that will be good for consumers and families. And 176 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: what we found in that process is there's the breadth 177 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: of acts and the breath breath of tools and authorities 178 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: really runs across um often climes. This conversation starts and 179 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: centers around the core antitrust statutes UH and the core 180 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: antitrust enforcement agencies, the Department of Justice and the FTC. 181 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: Their role is critical and they operate into independently when 182 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: it comes to enforcement matters, but in fact the actual 183 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: tools and authorities are much broader. So in U s 184 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: d A, for example, we just had the UM hundred 185 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: year anniversary of the Packers and Stockyards Act, which is 186 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: the antitrust statute that that applies to UM to food UH, 187 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: food and agricultural commodities meat packing in others UM we 188 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: have at the Department of Transportation authorities to look at 189 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: competition in the airline industry, in the railroad industry, in 190 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: the shipping industry UM and across the board. So what 191 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: we realized in putting this executive work together is that 192 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: the actual coordination across these different parts of our government 193 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: is really important for two reasons. One because it's important 194 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: for the agencies to understand how when they're taking action 195 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: to encourage competition in a particular segment of the market, 196 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: like when HHS finalizes this rule to make hearing aids 197 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: available over the counter, how does that fit into a 198 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: broader economic strategy to encourage competition in UH, in the 199 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: railroad industry, or in the shipping industry. And the second 200 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: is to make sure that we are we are effectively 201 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: coordinating and not getting across purposes. So if if if 202 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: one agency is moving out in a certain way, and 203 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: try to make sure that it's consistent and that the 204 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: and that businesses and other stakeholders that are actually having 205 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: to operate within these rules of the road have as 206 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: clear as possible guidance from the executive branch um on 207 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: on what our policies and what our intentions are. So 208 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: that's the goal of the Council. It's been a long time, 209 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: uh in American economic policy that we've really priority tized 210 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: competition policy in this way, and we're going to need 211 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: a structure to have that ongoing focus across time and 212 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: where we hope that this Council will serve that purpose. 213 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: So let's stay with that structure a little bit. I 214 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: mentioned all the members of this council. I didn't mention 215 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: the chairperson that would happen to be you. How big 216 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: of a job is this going to be relative to 217 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: your role as as director of the National Economic Council. 218 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: How large of a priority is this and what do 219 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: you hope to accomplish with it? Well, I think you 220 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: saw from the President's speech and announcement last week. The 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: priority that he and that we and as administration are 222 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: putting on this effort, which is very high. UM. That 223 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: we are obviously very focused on the immediate economic challenges UM, 224 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: the rescue plan and the impact that has had on 225 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: the economy over the last couple of months. The effort 226 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: we have a Congress right now working on an infrastructure 227 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: pack it and on a human infrastructure element as well. UM. 228 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: But but but equally in that category is this effort 229 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: to try to lower prices for consumers, increased wages, generate 230 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: more innovation by encouraging competition. So I would say that, look, 231 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: it's a big priority and part of why we wanted 232 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: to move out early. UM. This is relatively early in 233 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: administration to put on an executive order that is this 234 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: this broad in terms of directives to different agencies. Was 235 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that we were getting going because some 236 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: of these things, UM, appropriately will take some time. The 237 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: rulemaking process, uh, you know explicitly builds in time for 238 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: notice and comment and engagement. UM. So we know that 239 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: these things will take some time. But we wanted to 240 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: get the ball rolling and as a result, our focus 241 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: on this council and my role in in in trying 242 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: to lead and coordinate that will be a big piece 243 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: of business. But we're really excited about being out of 244 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: the game um early and uh and and aggressively here. 245 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: And I think what you're gonna see, hopefully is that 246 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: for a lot of end uh end recipients, typical families, businesses, 247 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: this is going to be a real welcome uh, real 248 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: welcome opportunity because whether you're a small family farmer who 249 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: has been struggling under the sense that you know, costs 250 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: keep going up and your choices are are going down 251 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: because you keep seeing consolidation in the market, or you're 252 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: just you know, somebody who is looking for the best 253 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: job possible and realizing that there are restrictions on you know, 254 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: moving from job to job that you didn't even know existed. 255 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: These are kinds of things that could help people in 256 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: their daily lives. But if we're going to get to 257 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: helping in at that end point, we really got to 258 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: be organized and coordinated as a federal government. So we 259 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: gotta you know, it's gonna be a big piece of business, 260 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: but one that we're very excited about. So we're going 261 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: to drill down into some of the specifics on a 262 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: sector by sector basis. But before we get that, Granu Lare, 263 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: I want to just discuss briefly the genesis of this. 264 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: Your White House colleague Tim Woo, along with a bunch 265 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: of others, published a large research paper back in November, 266 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: right right after the election, and their analysis identified that 267 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: pretty much since the Microsoft anti trust case in the 268 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: ninety nineties, the US has kind of given up on 269 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: um anti trust enforcement and the result has been huge 270 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: industry consolidation, reduction of competition, increase pricing power, and higher 271 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: costs two consumers. So that leads to the question what 272 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: happened to anti trust enforcement in the United States. Yeah, 273 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: it's it's an important question and and also one that 274 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: I think is helpful to put in historic context, because 275 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: if you look at the arc of competition policy and 276 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: any trust enforcement in the U s. It really you 277 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: do see ebbs and flows, you know, going back as 278 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: far as the passage of the Sherman Anti Trust Act 279 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: in the eighteen nineties, right, that was a reaction to 280 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: thee both the political corruption but also the sort of 281 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: behavior that of monopolies in the in the in the 282 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: Gilded Age, and laid the groundwork for of course, you know, UH, 283 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: President Teddy Roosevelt becoming famous in in trust busting and 284 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: UH and and the activities in the early nineteen hundreds UM. 285 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: And then you saw another acceleration on the back end 286 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: of the UM in the in the nineteen thirties, on 287 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: the back end of the First World War UM, and 288 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: then coming out of the Second World War with with 289 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: FDR UM reflecting that as well, you then saw a 290 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: different a different approach that emerged in the nineteen seventies 291 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: and a new school of thought that was very was 292 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: was very narrowing of the view of competition policy UM, 293 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: and that led to a multi decade approach, as you say, 294 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: limiting enforcement of antitrust and a view that kind of 295 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: all things equal, UH, letting consolidation occur would generate economic 296 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: benefits and so therefore at the margin we should be 297 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: sort of accommodating of consolidation unless there was radically clear 298 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: that it was bad for bad for UH consumers, or 299 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: bad for prices. And so we've seen the implications of that, 300 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: and to your point, we've seen over the last couple 301 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: of decades the number of annual mergers has increased by 302 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: five or six folds UM, and we have seen in industry. 303 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: The measure of industry consolidation has increased significantly over the 304 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: last twenty years, and we haven't seen the attendant benefit 305 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: in terms of lower prices um or or more innovation 306 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: in the economy. And so over the last five years 307 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: or so, there's been a growing body of economic research 308 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: to try to identify the fact the harms that have 309 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: come from this consolidation UH, and that work started. Some 310 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: of that work started and was really put on the 311 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: map at the end of the Obama administration UM, including 312 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: by UM Tim Woo who you mentioned, Jason Furman, others 313 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: of my former colleagues, who really started to pinpoint this 314 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: decline in any trust enforcement and the decline and focus 315 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: on competition policy as one thing that has added to 316 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: the stagnancy a small business formation, the inequality that we 317 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: have seen UM, and in the academic realm, we've seen 318 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: that that work only accelerate over the course the last 319 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: five years. And so certainly the executive order here and 320 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: the actions and the work that is embedded here is 321 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: really building on that framework and building on the findings 322 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: that have come out over that and we certainly we 323 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: do view it in historic perspective of now trying to 324 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: really shift back to a focus on prioritizing UM. The 325 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: enforcements of anti trust statutes focus on competition and a 326 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: focus on the end outcome and the end benefit to 327 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: the end consumer and worker. And and for those people 328 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: who may not be familiar with Tim Woo, not only 329 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: is he the person who coined the phrase net neutrality, 330 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: he is the author of a couple of books, The 331 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: Curse of Bigness, Anti Trust in the New Gilded Age 332 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: as well as The Master Switch, where he describes how 333 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: eventually these information systems they become consolidated, they become closed 334 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: and less and less competitive until some disruptive innovation comes along. 335 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: And my sense is this council is trying to encourage 336 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: less of that concentration and more of the disruptive innovation. Yeah, 337 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And uh and Kim as Kim works 338 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: for Obvious here at the NBC and has been a 339 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: thought leader on these issues for some time. And you characterize, 340 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, accurately, the one of the key objectives of 341 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 1: this council is to try to get toward how we 342 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: can encourage that type of innovation. UM. And one thing 343 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: I would say is that This really is something that 344 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: I think we've increasingly seen cuts across traditional um lines 345 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: or dividing lines in economic thought, and it cuts across 346 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: to traditional political dividing lines to I mean, some of 347 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: the things we're talking about here are really about getting 348 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: rid of regulations that stand in the way of that 349 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: kind of innovation. You know, one of the examples that's 350 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: in the Executive Order is around is in them is 351 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: in uh fear and line the the the the alcohol market, 352 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: and you've got some incumbent rules on bottle size and 353 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: bottle labeling that when you really unpack them and say, 354 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: what why is it that you know, to operate in 355 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: a market you have to meet certain bottle size requirements 356 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: because maybe you've got an idea to ring a product 357 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: to market that just looks different and that's going to 358 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: be your you know, that's going to be your branding edge. Well, 359 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, when you unpack and and look at the 360 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: reason why those regulations exist, you know some of them 361 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: are because they're just protecting incumbents. Uh and uh. You 362 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: know the similar to a number of these occupational licensing 363 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: requirements where you have requirements to get a license to 364 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: be um to braid hair or to cut hair um 365 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: or you know, to do all manner of jobs, particularly 366 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: at the m in different states where you know, if 367 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: you if you're moving from one state to another, you've 368 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: got to go through a whole process of getting a 369 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: new license. UM. And you know, look, having licensing requirements 370 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: for uh, you know, for jobs that require you know 371 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: that are that where they're safety or there's other things 372 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: involved obviously make a lot of sense. But in a 373 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: lot of cases, when you unpack it, rules like that 374 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: are have been put in place to favor incumbents and 375 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 1: make it harder for new entrance to get into the market. 376 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: And so we're really you know, we we think this 377 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: real opportunity both to be disruptive in terms of the 378 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: economic slock, but also disruptive in terms of some of 379 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: the embedded political realities of this we've had. You know, 380 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these items have strange bedfellows in terms 381 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: of the support behind them, and that's part of what's 382 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: exciting about it for us as well. Right, clear clearly 383 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these licensing rules are anti competitive. UM. 384 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: Before we dig down and get granular into the individual sectors, 385 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: I have one last broad overview question and it's on 386 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: anti trust enforcement. There has been a deeply embedded sort 387 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: of less a fair doctrine at both the Department of 388 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: Justice and the FTC. Obviously, Lena Khan and Marrick Garland 389 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: represent a break from that philosophy. But how do you 390 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: turn around two decades of I was gonna say lacks enforcement, 391 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: but it's really a skepticism about anti trust law. How 392 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: do you reverse that? Well, I think you start by 393 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: doing what we did in the Executive Order, which is 394 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 1: to articulate that it is the policy of the executive 395 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: branch to vigorously enforce our antitrust laws, and more than that, 396 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: UM to enforce them in the context of a um 397 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: UH an economic policy that views increasing competition as a 398 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: key way of improving lives and economic outcomes for the 399 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: American people. So part of it is you start by 400 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: articulating a clear economic strategy and economic crossoity behind why 401 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: it is that we need greater UM and more vigorous 402 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: enforcement of our antitrust statutes. And you know some of 403 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: the some of the work that UH in the nineteen 404 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: seventies and early eighties that led to this kind of 405 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: multi decade effort to try to undermine it. For orsman 406 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: of antitrust started from articulating a similarly articulating a philosophy, 407 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: but a philosophy to very different ends. So that's you know, 408 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: one important step is I think what we're trying to 409 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: do is to articulate clearly the policy of the government. 410 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: A second I do want to be clear is that 411 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: the actual enforcement appropriately and necessarily operates independently, independently at 412 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice and the FTC. But I think 413 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: getting high quality personnel in that will do that effectively. 414 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: UM is a is a second important step, and so 415 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're moving on that front as well. 416 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: And then you know, we we do you know, we 417 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: do have an issue, which is that ultimately these things, 418 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: the antitrust doctrine gets UM gets developed in the context 419 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: of the judicial branch and and and challenges to decisions. 420 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: And we've seen that obviously over the course of decades 421 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: as and so you know, there are also some places 422 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: where we may need to change the law, We may 423 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: need to clarify or strengthen uh, the UM the antitrust authorities, 424 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: and there's bipartisan work in Congress that's going on on 425 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: that front right now. Particularly it relates to the tech industry, 426 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: and so that's something that we are engaged on as well. 427 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: But we we feel quite good about the fact that 428 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: even within the existing authorities that we have across the 429 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: federal government, we can make a lot of progress. And 430 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: that's where we're focused for the time being. All Right, 431 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: So let's dive into some of these sectors and and 432 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: really this executive order covers everything from healthcare to financial 433 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: products to net neutrality, data farmers labeling. Let's start with 434 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: labor and employee contracts. I recall a couple of years ago, UM, 435 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of reports sort of surfaced about various tech 436 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: companies Google, Apple, Facebook that had these anti poaching agreements 437 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: they wouldn't hire each other's senior personnel. Obviously illegal and 438 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: a restrictive um comminence amongst them. But but less obvious 439 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: are some of the basic restrictive contracts, non competes, non disclosures, 440 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: other onerous clauses uh that are common in Silicon Valley 441 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: but have spread out to the rest of the country. 442 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: What can this council do to allow greater competition for uh, 443 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: those sort of employees who want to switch jobs. Yeah, 444 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: so this is an incredibly important issue. You know, our 445 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: our our labor market will work more effectively when workers 446 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: are competing for jobs, but also employers are competing for workers. 447 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: And when we have you know, fewer frictions and better 448 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: matching between the workers and the jobs that they will 449 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: be most successful in, we have better you know, outcomes 450 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: over um. But to your point, we've got some real 451 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: frictions and we have real opportunities to address them. So 452 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: this executive order and the work through the Council, we're 453 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: gonna go at three of those. The first is which 454 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: you refer to as non compete agreements, and it's striking today, 455 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: about one in three employers require that an employee will 456 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: sign a noncompete agreement. So you're talking about about sixty 457 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: million people in the workforce. UM. And it's not just 458 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: as you say in Silicon Valley, and it's not just 459 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: in uh, those circumstances where there's an obvious uh or 460 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: or clear um competitive reason why you need it. So, 461 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 1: you know, the President joking, not jokingly, but you know, 462 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: illustratively pointed out to the fact that you know, you're 463 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: if you're the scientist who owns the secret recipe for coke. Um. 464 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: You know you may need to sign a noncompete to 465 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: not just go to PEPSI and give away that trade secret, 466 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: right um, when the um and so so clearly these 467 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: these noncompete operate as a as a as a legitimate tool. 468 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: But when you got to sixty million people and one 469 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: of free employers, this goes much broader. Construction workers, hotel workers, um. 470 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: You know you work in a restaurant and hospitality, fast 471 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: food um. And also for the for low wage jobs, 472 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: entry level jobs, not just more senior jobs where you'd 473 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: be access to more sensitive information. And so you know this, 474 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: the executive order is operating from a pretty basic principle 475 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: that if particularly if you're operating in those sectors and 476 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: someone offers you a better job, you should be able 477 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: to take it. And if your existing employer wants you 478 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: to stay, they should compete for your talent. Um. And 479 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: so the order uh UM is is directing the FTC 480 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: to look at either modifying or banning non compete clauses. 481 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: So that's number one. The second is what I mentioned earlier, 482 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: which is about the licenses required to operate in a job. 483 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: So again about one in three jobs, about jobs in 484 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: the us also require a license, and so that spans 485 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: the uh you know that that spans the horizon. Obviously, 486 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: you know you need a pilot's license to be to 487 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: to operate an aircraft, but you also need a license 488 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: to be on accountant, and interior decorator, a hairdresser, and 489 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: importantly one in free today need that. That was five 490 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties. So we've seen a significant increase 491 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: in the number of jobs that require a license, and 492 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: so likewise disorder goes out. Saying in those cases where 493 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: unnecessary licensing is actually reducing mobility, um that we should 494 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: put limits or restrictions on them. At one point, I was, 495 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: how light here is? You know some some people really 496 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: need to be mobile. Uh that you know, it's part 497 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: of how our economy works. You take military families, for example, 498 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: you have to move every couple of years in order 499 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: to do your job. Well, if you're a spouse of 500 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: if you have a you know a one one one 501 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: member of a partnership is in the military and moving. 502 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: The other person works in a job where state by 503 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: state you have different licensing requirements. Then you know, every 504 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: time they move, that could be free six months of 505 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: friction in terms of getting into the labor market and 506 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: finding a job. The last thing we're focused on here 507 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: is about wage data. And one of the things that 508 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: that is true today is that employers can share detailed 509 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: wage data between employers without having to share it to employees. 510 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: And again this is just what the concern that is 511 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: raised is that if you know, if employers can share 512 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: wage data without sharing it to employees, that it makes 513 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: it easier for them to um to you know, either 514 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: explicitly colluded or just implicitly reduce uh, you know, competition 515 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: and not have to compete as vigorously on on on 516 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: wages and so and you could end up, you know, 517 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: putting downward pressure on wages. So it all three of 518 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: those days. We think we can make some progress by 519 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: either eliminating or restricting um uh non competes, licensing, uh, 520 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, wage data sharing, and so that's that's our 521 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: real focus on the labor market, and we think if 522 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: we can make some progress on all free, what you 523 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: end up with again is a more competitive labor market, 524 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: actually reducing regulation and making it easier for people to 525 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: move from job to job. So so I get the 526 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: idea of leveling the playing fields, increasing mobility. It would 527 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: be great if states had reciprocity on various licensing UM. 528 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: But a lot of these non competes and a lot 529 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: of these employee contracts are governed by state law. What 530 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: is the authority for the FDC or or the federal 531 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: government to come in and say, hey, this, UH, this 532 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: very weak permissive state statute allowing these restrictive employee agreements 533 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: is going to be bypassed by the federal government. From 534 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: whence does that authority come? So in a lot of 535 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: these cases, UH, these are lawyer contracts or they are 536 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,479 Speaker 1: employer agreements. UH. And even in cases where U states 537 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: have UM, the states have authorities UH the employers are 538 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: making UH contracts where there is a a federal nexus, 539 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: and and that that extends to FTC authorities to UH 540 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: to limit or ban UH anti competitive practices. So the 541 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: FTC does have UM pretty broad authority in these areas, 542 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: even in cases where the you know, the the a 543 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: state rule or a state requirement UM is comes into play. 544 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: So we're gonna gonna we're gonna do it we can 545 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: at the federal level, we think we have UM some 546 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: real scope here. Obviously, the FTC will sort through that 547 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: UM and and make its determinations ultimate determinations on how 548 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: to use that authority independently. But also, you know, part 549 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: of what we're doing and part of what we're trying 550 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: to encourage here is a consideration of this at the 551 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: state level as well. So one of the things we 552 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: will be doing is reaching out and engaging with um 553 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: UH state and UH municipal actors as well, because you know, 554 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: one of the things that we found is that there's 555 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: appetite to try to address this at the state level too. 556 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: So you know, where where the ultimate authority actually is 557 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: not a federal authority, we also have a certain ability 558 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: to convene and use the bully pulpit to encourage action 559 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: of the state as well. So let's switch over to 560 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: real estate. UH. Many people may not be aware that 561 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: the United States has a much higher real estate Transaction 562 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: Commission than many other countries. The prior administration had cut 563 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: a bit of a sweetheart deal with the National Association 564 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: of Realtors. You guys, this administration put the n a 565 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: R unnoticed that that deal was off the table, and 566 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: you want to do something about how they're maintaining high 567 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: real estate prices. Tell us about what the Competitive Council 568 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: can do about excessive real estate commissions. Well, look, I 569 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: think it's a very you know, it's it's it's a 570 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: it's a very similar uh dynamic. But again, you know, 571 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: operating in a different industry, which is, you know, can 572 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: we bring more transparency uh and can we also bring 573 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: more more competition into into a market with the with 574 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: the goal of trying to ultimately identify what's good for 575 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: the uh, you know, for the for the for the 576 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: end consumer. So you know, the the the Justice Department 577 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: UH did um uh did take take action independently to 578 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: try to um uh to try to take another look 579 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: at this question. UM and you know, the a real 580 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: question at issue here is whether this sort of the 581 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: structure of commissions is going to advance competition, encourage more 582 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: competition with better outcomes for uh, for consumers. And this 583 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: question of whether you have very high and also uniform 584 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: commissions across an industry, what is is the question of 585 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: whether that's actually you know, that's that is the result 586 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: of a competitive outcome, or whether that is the result 587 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: of a lack of competition. So ultimately, you know, this 588 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 1: is a this falls in the category of an enforcement 589 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: action that the Department of Justice will operate independently. But 590 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: I think lifting up what you see is again an 591 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: important question being asked, right, which is that um, if 592 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: you if you have it, if you have history, if 593 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: you have if you have high commissions UM and UNI 594 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: warm commissions UM. It is you know, it's appropriate to 595 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: ask that question of is that the result of a 596 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: competitive outcome or is that the result of lack of competition? 597 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: And you know, I anticipate that that's what will that's 598 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: what we'll see and hopefully that's that's the outcome that 599 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: we will uh that will will arrive will arrive at. 600 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: But ultimately the Department of Justice full will independently navigate 601 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: that m consistent with their enforcement role. And let's stay 602 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: with real estate a minute. One of the things that 603 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: I was shocked by in the Executive Order and surprised 604 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: to learn very often landlords of rental buildings or even 605 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: condos sell exclusive rights to the building to a cable company, 606 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: meaning no competition between fiber optic cable satellite for customers. 607 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: I had no idea this existed. I can't imagine it's legal. 608 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: It has to be anti competitive and make things so 609 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: much more expensive for consumers, tell us a little bit 610 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: about what you want to do with that. I'm glad 611 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: you picked up on that. And it goes to a 612 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: broader issue, which is, how do we actually achieve the 613 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: goal of affordable high speed internet access for all Americans? 614 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: UM And that's a big goal, um and there's big 615 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: challenges for us as a country to get to there. 616 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: But part of getting there is actually not only creating 617 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: UM access. You know, people in rural America live in 618 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: a jurisdiction where there isn't even access to high speed internet, 619 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: but also creating competition where the fiber has been laid 620 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 1: and the um uh and the the access is there, 621 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: but it's unaffordable and unaffordable in part because there isn't 622 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: sufficient competition. So, you know, a a really strikingly high 623 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: share of Americans live in jurisdictions where there is only 624 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: one uh one reliable broadband provider. And this gets to 625 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: your point. Many people live in circumstance is where they 626 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: are themselves restricted to only accessing one uh one internet 627 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: provider UM and and yeah it's um, it's not it's 628 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: not as well known, but it is the case that 629 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: in some cases you have these agreements these landlord provider 630 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: agreements where UM, just by dint of deciding to live 631 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: in a particular building you you then lose access to 632 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: a competitive market for for broadband services. I would say, 633 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: you know, anecdotally, one of the things that I think 634 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: you hear a lot is that I mean is that 635 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: people can't really understand what it is, why what they're 636 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: paying for, and why they're paying with respect to UM 637 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: internet providers UM. And I think that you know, the 638 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: opportunity here is to say, if we can create more competition, 639 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: this is a place where ultimately consumers will end up 640 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: with with with more options and that I could drive 641 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: lower prices and better and better outcomes as well. So 642 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: that particular issue of landlords and tenants is a particularly 643 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: evocative example of the challenge, as you've noted, But the 644 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: challenge is actually much broader than that, which is at 645 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: the end of the day, every American you know, high 646 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: speed internet today is like electricity was a hundred years ago. 647 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: It is the power by which you interact with the 648 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 1: twenty one century economy. And if you don't have access 649 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 1: to high speed internet, you really can't be a full 650 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: participant in the nation's economy today. UM, and we need 651 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody has that access. Some of 652 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: that is, you know, about building out more fiber and 653 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: building out more actual access, but encouraging healthy competition in 654 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: this sector is a big part of this as well. 655 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: And something else I found in the Executive Order that 656 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: I never heard of and kind of blew my minds 657 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: paid a delay big Farmer paying Janet eric drug companies 658 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: to not make cheaper generics. How on earth could that 659 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: be allowed? Well, look, you know, UH, there is a 660 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: we we have a uh, we have a set of 661 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: challenges in the market for prescription drugs UM and UH 662 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: and and that I think is is is well known. UM. 663 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: And you know, there's a there's a obviously, there is 664 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: a legitimate issue here about UM, the upfront investment needed 665 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: to innovate and identify prescription and and the the um 666 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: innovations that go into prescription drugs and making sure that 667 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: companies can recoup those. But there's a lot of elements 668 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: of how that market operates that go well beyond that 669 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: and actually end up just driving up prices for consumers. UM. 670 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: And you're you're raising one of them, which is you know, 671 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: there's one of the one of the strategies that manufacturers 672 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: have used in the past is if you're the UM, 673 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: if you're the brand name drug manufacturer, you encourage generic 674 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: manufacturers to to stay out of the market by providing 675 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: them UH incentive payments and UH and that you know, 676 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, there's no there's a 677 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: there's to two negative impacts the economy. One is less 678 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: innovation UM, but the other is higher prices for and consumers. 679 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: And we see in the evidence of these pay for 680 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: delay UH schemes that it produces both of those outcomes, 681 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: less innovation and higher prices. So that's the kind of 682 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: thing that we want to work to try to reduce 683 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: or eliminate and also just encourage more competition in the 684 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: market for generics as well. So the other, you know, 685 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: another element that UM that the Executive Order directs is 686 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 1: for the FDA to work with states to allow them 687 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: to import prescription drugs from UH Canada UM consistent with 688 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: safety standards. And this is again something that a number 689 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: of states have expressed an interest in doing because it 690 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: would create more competition and lower prices for their UM 691 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: there for consumers in their states. And the federal government 692 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,439 Speaker 1: has been operated traditionally as a barrier to that, and 693 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: we want to change that. We want to have a 694 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: federal government again consistent with safety standards, encouraging that kind 695 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: of UH state action to increase competition UM in the 696 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,800 Speaker 1: In the prescription drug market as well, It's always seemed 697 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: weird to me that US consumers are the one subsidizing 698 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: drugs for the rest of the world than U S 699 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 1: consumers were paying so much more. It's not just Canada, 700 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: but it's throughout Europe and in the UK. It just 701 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: seems so weird to me that Americans pay a much 702 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: higher price for the same exact drug, including those made 703 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: by American drug companies. Yeah, look at striking right, if 704 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: you're a U S consumer, you are likely to pay 705 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: two and a half times as much for the same 706 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: prescription drug than your international counterpart. Obviously it's varies from 707 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 1: country to country, but on average, that's uh, that's the reality. 708 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,439 Speaker 1: And we think that there's a lot that could be done, 709 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: common sense things that could be done, you know, banning 710 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: a pay for delay arrangement that reduces innovation drives the prices, 711 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: lighting states imports safely from Canada. There's also some steps 712 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,879 Speaker 1: we're gonna need to work with Congress to do as well, though, 713 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: and that's one of the things that we're working on 714 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: right now, in fact, is to try to finally give 715 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: Medicare the ability to negotiate UM as the largest bulk 716 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: purchase of prescription drugs in the market, UM, give Medicare 717 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: the ability to use that market position to actually negotiate 718 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: for lower prices, which would not only increase reduced prices 719 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: for UM the end participants in Medicare, but also it 720 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: would have a downward pressure on prices across the industry 721 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: because Medicare is the sort of the the benchmark rate 722 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: UH in in many cases, So you know, we just 723 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: you're right, it's the kind of thing that it's also 724 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that so many Americans know and 725 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: uh understand and actually feel on their daily lives, and 726 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,439 Speaker 1: they know that it just doesn't make a lot of sense. 727 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: Why is it that we're paying so much UM. But 728 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's hard to pinpoint, well, how 729 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: can we fix that. We're trying to break that down 730 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 1: and say there's some really concrete, practical things we could 731 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: do and we and in doing so, where this is 732 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 1: this is about government eliminating rules, eliminating regulations that just 733 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: don't make a lot of sense um, using market power 734 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: to actually bargain for better prices. These are the kinds 735 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:04,959 Speaker 1: of things that we think make a lot of sense 736 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,479 Speaker 1: and kind of make intuitive sense to the American people 737 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: as well. I want to talk about big tech and 738 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: net neutrality, but before I moved to that space, which 739 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:17,919 Speaker 1: I know is going to take a lot of time, 740 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: I have to talk about farmers a little bit first. 741 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: Why can't farmers repair their own tractors? This is the 742 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: most insane thing I can imagine as someone who likes 743 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: to tinker and do some of my own repairs. If 744 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: you're if you're a farmer, why can't you take your 745 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: John dear tractor and fix it yourself when it breaks? Well, 746 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, look, it's you're you're you're keying in on 747 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: a lot of these pragmatic things that we're very focused 748 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: on as well. It's hard to it's hard to prosecute 749 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,879 Speaker 1: an argument why that makes a lot of sense um. 750 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: And part of the reason why we are where we 751 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: are is because of a set of rules that have 752 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: been in place that end up favoring the incumbent. Right 753 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: If you are the incumbent, and you sell contractor and 754 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 1: you restrict uh the where somebody can get it fixed, 755 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: then it you know, makes it easier for you to 756 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: keep you know, to maintain control of the customer base. UM. 757 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: But the question that you're appropriately raising is what's the 758 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: what's the broader consumer benefit and what's the broader rationale 759 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: behind it? Um. And we think that that's the kind 760 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: of thing that we need to uh, you know, we 761 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: need to fundamentally rethink. You know. It's It's true across 762 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: the across the economy, there are the sort of right 763 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 1: to repair provisions that again are rules in place that 764 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: we need to take a hard look at to make 765 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: sure that if they're in place, they are actually serving 766 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: some important safety benefits, safety rationale or otherwise and not 767 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: just there to uh to favor or or keep out 768 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: new entrance into a market. In that particular case, we're 769 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: quite excited about the idea that you know, if you 770 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: open up uh and give um. And that's why I've 771 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: encouraged the FTC to look at saying give you give 772 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: farmers the right to repair their own equipment how they 773 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 1: like without having to rely on any particular expensive manufacturer, 774 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: and in doing so that will also you know again 775 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,359 Speaker 1: it's the same thing you know that should make life 776 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: easier for farmers, UH, it should make it should bring 777 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 1: prices down, but also encourage innovation because if you're you know, 778 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: a if you're a pair shop, an independent repair shop 779 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: that works on some other you know small um, small 780 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: mechanical issues, and that you open this up, well, then 781 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,879 Speaker 1: you have a market to enter into. You can learn 782 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: how to fix tractors UH efficiently and cheaply, and then 783 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: you can grow grow as a result. UM. And I 784 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: think that that's the point I would I would emphasize 785 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: if this is not a bad out keeping businesses in 786 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,320 Speaker 1: the US from growing, gaining market share UM and doing 787 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: what businesses need to do to be successful, which is 788 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: internew markets, innovate, grow and as a result get bigger. 789 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,800 Speaker 1: That's part of the goal of effective UH capitalism. This 790 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: is not about stifling that. It's more about looking at 791 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: those areas where a rule actually keeps incumbents from being 792 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 1: able to enter into the market and really ask the 793 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,800 Speaker 1: hard question of is there a legitimate economic rational to 794 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 1: that other than rents or other than stifling competition. And 795 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: it's not just factors. It's it's cell phones. My my 796 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: Apple iPhone is dying, and I can either swap the 797 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: battery out and then cause all sorts of problems because 798 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to change a battery, or i could 799 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,240 Speaker 1: go buy a brand new phone. Um. But before again, 800 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: before we get to technology, let me stay with farmers. 801 00:49:53,760 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 1: There are some pretty surprising restrictions on seeds, including liability 802 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: for some farmers for seeds they never even used. What's 803 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: going on in that area. I've read some pretty horrible 804 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 1: stories about farmers being sued by by big agg For 805 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: lack of a better phrase, what can be done to 806 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: allow farmers to take more control of their own crops, 807 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: of their own planting and their own harvesting. Well, this 808 00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:29,359 Speaker 1: is a really good example of when you see consolidation 809 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: in the market, that should raise a question, a legitimate 810 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: question of is that consolidation um UH encouraging healthy competition 811 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: or consistent with healthy competition, or is it actually um 812 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,560 Speaker 1: stifling that competition. So, if you look at the market 813 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 1: for agricultural inputs UM, seeds, feed, fertilizer, we've seen significant 814 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: consolidation over the last few decades. To your point on seeds, UM, 815 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:08,839 Speaker 1: you know uh to you know, to a first approximation 816 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 1: about for companies control most of the world market at 817 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 1: this point, and we've seen prices go up very significantly 818 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: across time. And so what that does, what we've seen 819 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,840 Speaker 1: in that market is that the increase in price and 820 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: the reduction and competition also puts those providers in a 821 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,320 Speaker 1: position where they can put increased demands because the the 822 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,320 Speaker 1: end farmer, the small farmer just doesn't have choice to 823 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: get there, uh, to source their seeds from any other producer, 824 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,319 Speaker 1: so they can limit options, they can you know, they 825 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: can require the use of those in certain ways that 826 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: then can create liability for um the end producer. What 827 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,600 Speaker 1: it also does is it means that the end farmer 828 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,040 Speaker 1: ends up getting less and less of the total aggregate 829 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: benefit of the output that they grow. So, you know, 830 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: when you're using a seed to wrote a food commodity, 831 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the farmers, as we've 832 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 1: seen this consolidation consolidation increase, they've gotten less and less 833 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: of the total aggregate economic benefit of um of of 834 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,480 Speaker 1: of that output. And so you've got you know, more 835 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,359 Speaker 1: consolidation prices increasing and less of the benefit of each 836 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:26,360 Speaker 1: dollar being uh garnered for that end output food product 837 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: declining for for decades. And I think this is an 838 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,400 Speaker 1: interesting place with respect to this executive order where the UM, 839 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: we've gotten an enormous amount of outpouring from agricultural constituencies, 840 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: those small farmers organizations in states. UH, we've seen you know, 841 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:48,400 Speaker 1: everybody from from Senator Kester in Montana to Senator Grassley 842 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 1: in Iowa saying, UM, this is what we need to 843 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 1: try to take on consolidation and incourage get better competition, 844 00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 1: Get competition back into markets. Four seed into mark it's 845 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,760 Speaker 1: her feet into markets for fertilizer, to give the smaller 846 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,480 Speaker 1: farmers a real fighting chance, um, and to give them 847 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: more of the share of the economic output of the 848 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: product the producer. And ultimately, if there's more competition, not 849 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,840 Speaker 1: only does the benefit farmers I have to assume in 850 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: this current inflation concerned environment, this can help drive food 851 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 1: prices down over the long haul. I think it's a 852 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: way to to create a stable UH and and better 853 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,479 Speaker 1: price outcomes over over the longer term. Yeah, because you see, 854 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,759 Speaker 1: you know that prices when prices for input goods are 855 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: going up. That was true in in agriculture markets prior 856 00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: to the pandemic UM and certainly it remains a concern. 857 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,279 Speaker 1: Now this is this These types of steps we hope 858 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,359 Speaker 1: will actually put downward pressure on on those markets over 859 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,240 Speaker 1: the longer term. Alright, so let's talk about everybody's favorite segment, 860 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: big Tech. I read n y U Professor Scott Galloway's 861 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: book The Four I think it came out in seventeen 862 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,480 Speaker 1: UH and the basic premises the biggest companies in technology 863 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: have become very large, very powerful. They buy up nascent 864 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: competitors before they're even out of the womb, and they 865 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: just have incredible market power. What can be done about 866 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:35,879 Speaker 1: this concentrated UH strength of these giant trillion dollar technology companies. Well, 867 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: I would start by saying, look, the UM our technology 868 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,600 Speaker 1: sector and our tech companies are a reflection of the 869 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: unparalleled innovation of the American economy. UM and reflect um 870 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,360 Speaker 1: and and and drive and have generated a lot of 871 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: the innovation and benefits that Americans across the board, you 872 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,279 Speaker 1: and I benefit from on a daily basis. And so 873 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,840 Speaker 1: um that's that's that's that's important and important at the 874 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,200 Speaker 1: starting point. And at the same time, there are really 875 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,960 Speaker 1: significant problems with concentration and with any competitive behavior in 876 00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,520 Speaker 1: uh in the tech sector. And that's what we're really 877 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 1: trying to focus on in this executive order h and 878 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: across across the board, and it's it's not you know, 879 00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,520 Speaker 1: this conversation can often be sort of very um, yeah, 880 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,719 Speaker 1: can drive to sort of in co Wait, there's just 881 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 1: something there's something inherently wrong with big tech, right, and 882 00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: we're trying to break that down and say, let's try 883 00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,320 Speaker 1: to identify those areas where we have real questions about 884 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:49,839 Speaker 1: dominant you know, uh tech platforms and where they may 885 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 1: be under commining competition or uh um, you know, reducing competition. 886 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 1: So that's that's that's that's our focus. So you know, 887 00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,839 Speaker 1: for example, where you know, the the the executive orders 888 00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:09,719 Speaker 1: encouraging the FTC too, but not new rules on how 889 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: tech platforms can gather and collect data and use that 890 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,000 Speaker 1: data in places like retail marketplaces on their own platforms, 891 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: um uh And and that's you know, that's that's a 892 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,799 Speaker 1: that's a more concrete example, but one that I think 893 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 1: that you know a lot of end consumers have um 894 00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,520 Speaker 1: have observed or have interacted with in their in their 895 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,840 Speaker 1: daily life. That's clearly a place where we need to 896 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,160 Speaker 1: take a very hard look and apply scrutiny. Another is 897 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,600 Speaker 1: with respect to mergers, right, and this is a place 898 00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:50,720 Speaker 1: where clearly, UM, we we need to increase the focus 899 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,480 Speaker 1: again the antitrust. The actual enforcement UH, we will leave 900 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,800 Speaker 1: to the Department of Justice and will leave to the FTC. 901 00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,440 Speaker 1: But it's a matter of policy. We have to focus 902 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 1: in particular, in a particular focus on the acquisition of 903 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: competitors and the impact of those in the tech sector 904 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:11,759 Speaker 1: on platforms that then are dominant enough that they can 905 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,920 Speaker 1: use mergers to just basically to squeeze out competition UM 906 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,920 Speaker 1: by competitors in the first place. And at the end 907 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: of the day, you know, we want to create a 908 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: circumstance where the next generation of great tech companies in 909 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: the United States come from the innovative capacity of this 910 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 1: economy which is unparalleled UM and continue to drive innovation. 911 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,600 Speaker 1: But we think that these types of UM reforms are 912 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,760 Speaker 1: actually necessary to do that, so that we don't end 913 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 1: up stifling competition and and losing that kind of next 914 00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,760 Speaker 1: generation of innovation. You mentioned encouraging the FTC to establish 915 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,200 Speaker 1: rules on surveillance UM. There are also some rules on 916 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 1: accumulation of data. It seems that other countries like Europe 917 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,760 Speaker 1: or even the state of California have very robust data 918 00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:04,400 Speaker 1: privacy laws. Does that require separate legislation or can that 919 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: be done through this Council and through the FDC. Well, 920 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,600 Speaker 1: I think there was a lot that we can do. 921 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,120 Speaker 1: There's there's there's a lot that we can do, and 922 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: the lots that that the UH, the FC in the 923 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 1: Department of Justice can can do and can move on 924 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,640 Speaker 1: their own. And I think that, UM, we will see 925 00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: that with respect to I anticipate we'll see that with 926 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: respect to data. UM, we'll see that with respect to 927 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,800 Speaker 1: UH scrutiny on mergers and also I think on some 928 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 1: more specific behaviors and methods UH that UH that we've 929 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,120 Speaker 1: seen emerge in the industry and that we have um 930 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,880 Speaker 1: uh called out you know in the UM in the 931 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:54,400 Speaker 1: Executive Order, particularly around competing on your own platform, right 932 00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,840 Speaker 1: that UM and so using the the platform dominance to 933 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,560 Speaker 1: then compete with others on your platform. That's a place 934 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,840 Speaker 1: where is sort of intuitively you really need to apply 935 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,520 Speaker 1: scrutiny to activities in that space. At the same time, 936 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,360 Speaker 1: you you are right that there's both at the state 937 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,680 Speaker 1: level UM and at the federal level as well. There's 938 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 1: an active conversation about where UM additional authority will be necessary. 939 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,000 Speaker 1: And I mentioned earlier, you know there's a there's an active, 940 00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,640 Speaker 1: robust conversation going on the US Congress on that front. 941 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,560 Speaker 1: Bipartisan in nature. Should anticipate that we're gonna see more 942 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,320 Speaker 1: activity on the legislative front, which reflects the fact that, UM, 943 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,040 Speaker 1: we probably are going to need more authority as well. 944 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,240 Speaker 1: Makes makes a lot of sense, and it's kind of 945 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:45,240 Speaker 1: an interesting coalition of people criticizing the market power of 946 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: big tech. Conservatives are looking at it from one perspective, 947 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,560 Speaker 1: Progressives are looking at it from a very different perspective. 948 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,400 Speaker 1: Is there is there a coalition to be had to 949 00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:01,760 Speaker 1: actually get some legislation passed on this? Well? I think 950 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:07,400 Speaker 1: that here's what I say. We've seen bipartisan activity principally 951 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,560 Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks. We've seen that in 952 01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,000 Speaker 1: the House, UH, and we're encouraged by that work because 953 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,480 Speaker 1: I think that it is it is raising appropriately UH 954 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,480 Speaker 1: the authorities necessary to go at UM some of these 955 01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,840 Speaker 1: concerns that we've talked about, UM, they're similar work going 956 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,440 Speaker 1: on in the Senate, and I anticipate that that you know, 957 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: will will progress. It's always one of the things I 958 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,240 Speaker 1: found in this job is it's both not a good 959 01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,120 Speaker 1: idea UM and very difficult to really predict with accuracy 960 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,320 Speaker 1: exactly what the U. S. Congress is going to do. UM. 961 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: So I won't I won't try to do that in 962 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,240 Speaker 1: this context, but I would say that if you look 963 01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,080 Speaker 1: at the work that's going on, there's a lot of 964 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,320 Speaker 1: thought behind it. There's been a lot of energy building 965 01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,520 Speaker 1: on this issue across time. It is bipartisan in nature, 966 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,960 Speaker 1: and so it's complicated. It's a complicated SEPs and issue, 967 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,560 Speaker 1: and it's complicated politically as well. But certainly we are 968 01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,400 Speaker 1: encouraged by it because I think you know, at the 969 01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: end of the day, the President does believe that we 970 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,560 Speaker 1: we really need to focus on these sets of issues. 971 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,040 Speaker 1: We cannot just allow the status quo to continue. The 972 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,720 Speaker 1: actions that we are taking in the Executive Order are 973 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,440 Speaker 1: a big step in that direction. But we're going to 974 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,760 Speaker 1: keep working with Congress and hopefully we will will be 975 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,320 Speaker 1: able to progress on the legislator front as well. And 976 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,920 Speaker 1: I have to just quickly ask you about net neutrality 977 01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,320 Speaker 1: that was undone by the last administration. What are the 978 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,439 Speaker 1: plans in this administration. Are we going to restore net 979 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: neutrality so that certain consolidated companies they might own the 980 01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,880 Speaker 1: pipes and the content, can't give their own materials preference 981 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 1: over the rest of the Internet. So the Presidency on 982 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,640 Speaker 1: this is pretty clear. He's held it since the campaign 983 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:57,360 Speaker 1: that he believes that net neutrality rules are necessary and appropriate, 984 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,800 Speaker 1: that the steps that the prior administrator and UM took 985 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,160 Speaker 1: we're in the wrong direction. And then and in the 986 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:11,400 Speaker 1: Executive Order encourages the SEC to restore those rules. UM. 987 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: And so that's where we are, UM, and we're with 988 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 1: that's one of the key steps that was embedded in 989 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,200 Speaker 1: this Executive Order. UM. The FEC operates independently, but the 990 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,200 Speaker 1: President's got a clear view and is encouraging the FEC 991 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,800 Speaker 1: to take action on that front. And I see, I 992 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,440 Speaker 1: only have time for one more question, So let me 993 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,160 Speaker 1: make it a big one. Let's look back from four 994 01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,280 Speaker 1: years in the future at at this council. How will 995 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,920 Speaker 1: you be able to tell if this council was successful 996 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,280 Speaker 1: or not. At the end of the day, this is 997 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:53,160 Speaker 1: about improving economic outcomes for people, whether that's in higher wages, 998 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:58,400 Speaker 1: lower prices, or the impact of more innovation in their 999 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,120 Speaker 1: lives and in the communities in which they operate. So 1000 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,920 Speaker 1: at core, if we look back, success will be because 1001 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,520 Speaker 1: across the economy, lots of people have been able to 1002 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: improve their economic prospects in practical ways. People will be 1003 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,320 Speaker 1: able to go into a pharmacy and by hearing it's 1004 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:22,840 Speaker 1: over the counter, cheaper, more innovative, better outcome. People will 1005 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,360 Speaker 1: have more opportunity to go across the street to the 1006 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,280 Speaker 1: employer that might want to offer them a better job, 1007 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,120 Speaker 1: and get employers to compete for their talent rather than 1008 01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 1: being locked into a non compete prescription. Drop prices will 1009 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,720 Speaker 1: be lower than they otherwise, will be people who have 1010 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,720 Speaker 1: more options to get high speed internet even if they 1011 01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 1: live in an apartment building with a particular landlord. And 1012 01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, people will be able to do other things 1013 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: that we haven't touched on in this conversation, like move 1014 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 1: financial institutions shift their data from bank on to bank too, 1015 01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: without having to go through a complicated process. All of 1016 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,360 Speaker 1: these things just go to very practical frictions in a 1017 01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,040 Speaker 1: person's life. But at the end of the day, success 1018 01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,040 Speaker 1: will be we have made those frictions easier and gone 1019 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,320 Speaker 1: at that five dollars in the aggregate that is dragging 1020 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:20,160 Speaker 1: on the typical families economic outcomes and started to reverse that. 1021 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 1: So that's that's how we think about success um. It 1022 01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,240 Speaker 1: will require structure and process and a kind of focus 1023 01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:33,280 Speaker 1: on executing across these these seventy two executive actions. But 1024 01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:38,440 Speaker 1: that's our north star, Brian. This has just been absolutely enlightening. 1025 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,600 Speaker 1: Thank you again for being so generous with your time. 1026 01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,840 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Brian dec He is the 1027 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,680 Speaker 1: director of the National Economic Council and the new chairperson 1028 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,120 Speaker 1: of the President's Council on Economic Competitiveness. If you enjoy 1029 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,240 Speaker 1: this conversation, check out any of our prior four hundred 1030 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:01,080 Speaker 1: such interviews. You can find those wherever you feed your 1031 01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:07,760 Speaker 1: podcast fix iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, etcetera. We love your comments, 1032 01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:12,040 Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast 1033 01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. You can sign up from my 1034 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,280 Speaker 1: daily reading list at Ridholts dot com. Check out my 1035 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,680 Speaker 1: weekly column at Bloomberg dot com slash Opinion. Follow me 1036 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Rid Halts. I would be remiss if 1037 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,840 Speaker 1: I did not thank the crack team that helps put 1038 01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:34,320 Speaker 1: these conversations together each week. Tim Harrow is my audio engineer. 1039 01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:39,200 Speaker 1: Latica val Bron is my project manager. Paris Walt is 1040 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:43,240 Speaker 1: my producer. Michael Batnick is my head of research. I'm 1041 01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Barry Ridholts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on 1042 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.