WEBVTT - US-China Tariff Tensions' Impact on Tech Sector 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:10.119 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:16.160 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:46.920 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.560 Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.360 The trade war between the US and China it continues, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.400 China raising its own tariffs on all US goods from 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:47.720 eighty four percent to one hundred and twenty five percent 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.720 starting tomorrow, after the US raised tariffs to one hundred 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.600 and forty five percent on China. China saying your tariffs 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.880 are a joke. United States, It's no joke to investors. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.160 What an extraordinary week we have had. We are are 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.960 currently up almost six percent over the course of the 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.600 past five trading days ed on the NASDAP. But it 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.880 really doesn't paint the picture of the extent of the 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.240 whiplash that we've seen throughout that week as you pull 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.560 back on tariffs towards other nations. Look at what we've 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.840 done on the month, though, this context is needed sure 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.240 up on the week. On the downside, for the course 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.360 of April the trading month were off five percent on 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.080 the nast like one hundred dig into the details. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:22.280 ED. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.920 Yeah, I'm looking at the chip sector and across semi conductors. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.920 There's divergence in the session between fad less names, those 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.080 American companies that design chips that don't make them, and 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.640 those with domestic operations in the US. And buried among 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.920 the headlines overnight was the Chinese regulator and industry body saying, 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.880 by the way, when we think about tariffs on US 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.959 goods imposed by China, this is how we'll define it 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:47.280 you and are going to get into that throughout the 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.720 course of the show. We have to talk about Apple. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.520 I feel like Bloomberg Technology as a show was early 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.960 to this discussion on Monday. Will the US build an 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.080 iPhone in the future five days we're higher, but it's 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.480 been so volatile and the analysis from different corners of 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.200 the market is so different. I think we should get 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:05.440 into it. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.520 Carry we should because we've been debating time and time again. 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.919 A made in America iPhone is the goal that President 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.799 Trump believes could be a reality ED. But replicating China's 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.080 advanced supply chain it's skilled labor in the United States 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.519 will prove nigh on impossible for the tech giant and 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.520 rak Rana of Blue meg Intelligence joins us, You've got 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.000 a new note out just talking about the implications of 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.800 taris on the margin of Apple. But what would it 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.880 do to the margin of Apple if they ever brought 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:33.800 production for the iPhone to the United States? 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.120 Anag see, I think a lot would depend on our 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.120 materials that go there, the component costs, the labor cost, 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.000 and I think it'll be very hard for Apple to 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.280 you know, let's say, raise the price of the phone 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.919 to two x and then make it in the US. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.000 It has to be done in a way that actually 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.160 keeps the cost down and at that point, I mean 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.680 keeps their margins. The reason why Apple shines compares to 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.959 any of the consumer electronics companies because it has very 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.600 high gross margins compared to you know, let's say somebody 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.160 who just sells an Android phone in Asia, for example. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.560 But those margins run the threats heem. Let's bring up 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.880 Anaag's research that published I think about thirty minutes ago, 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.120 twenty minutes ago. I'm just going to read it. Our 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.680 analysis suggests a margin impact of one hundred to one 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.760 hundred and seventy basis points for every ten percent tariff 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.280 increase on China manufactured products. Apple could mitigate some of 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.560 the impact through price increases. You've been talking about price 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.680 increases a week. The key question seems to beware and 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.560 you think that will be on the services side, not 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:34.840 on the handsets. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.600 Because as I said, it's you know, it's very difficult 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.600 to take a thousand dollars phone and double it up 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.680 two thousand, but it's slightly easier to take a you know, 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.880 two ninety nine dollars to ninety nine nicloud plan and 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.040 let's say make it up to five or seven dollars. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.080 And also remember some of those you know, revenue streams. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.400 When it comes to the services business, especially cloud services, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.760 they have very high incremental margins. These are products with 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.280 seventy five, eighty percent or margins much much more than 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.600 the product side of it. And it doesn't really pinch 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.720 the consumer that much. And you know, they could praise 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.840 it as it's only going to be done you know, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.360 over the next six months or the time period when 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:13.280 the tabs are and then they can scale it back. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.000 I think from a consumer point of view, it is less, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.080 you know, it hurts them less. But again, you know, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:20.840 that's just one service. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:21.040 I talk about. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.800 They could be others as well, but I feel very, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.080 you know, strongly that I don't think they can raise 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.640 the price of a phone up by you know, fifty 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.520 sixty percent, maybe maybe slightly, maybe five percent, ten percent 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.640 or so, but anything above that, you know, I think 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:34.600 destructs demand. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.080 Aner Rana Bloomberg Intelligence, thank you very much. They stick 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.080 with Apple and the impact of tariffs on technology. Tony 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.680 one trow Price, science and Tech equity portfolio manager joins us. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.680 Now Apple the number one holding a tro Price is 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.560 Science and Tech fund that Tony oversees. Tony, when I 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:57.760 was learning about the technology industry and the markets and 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.640 making my way through Bloomberg Televisions newsroom, I was always 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.000 told that Apple and names like it had an entrench 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:10.200 market position, strong balance sheet, and in crises or recession, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.320 that's where they would survive and thrive. But I think 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.000 right now, you can't necessarily look back at history and precedent. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.039 How on earth are you modeling the future of this company? 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.119 Yeah, well it's a great question. 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.640 Obviously, it's historically been a kind of a balancing name. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.320 Just that whether a real kind of stock market storm, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.560 I'd say here, you know, I think that there is 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.479 a lot of fear in the market and concerns amount 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.760 of trade war and what deglobalization could possibly do to 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.640 kind of Apple's manufacturing advantage in China. And so you know, 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:46.240 when I take a step back, they do have diversified 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.360 supply chains. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:48.120 I think they are. 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.840 They do have the ability to move around, and they 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.200 do produce iPhones. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.560 In India, and when we think. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.920 About the US, the consumption of iPhones is roughly twenty 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.920 five or thirty percent, and so I expect that there's 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.880 some flexibility to move some of that production to India 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:09.880 more and therefore diversify that risk a bit. And you know, 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:11.440 at the end of the day, I think that it 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.679 is about like, you know, how much of a staple 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.560 the iPhone is, and so there's price you know, kind 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.920 of sensitively among the customer to actually you'll pay up. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:23.799 For the iPhone. I think that actually could be bullish 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:24.520 for the stock. 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:26.839 That just demonstrates more of a it's more of a 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.640 staple than people appreciate. But here I do think that 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.640 there is a lot of fear there and so generally, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.200 you know, historically you've been a reward for leaning into weakness. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.680 Then in this weakness Tony. Yes, on the day Apple 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.159 is trading somewhat higher. On the week it is too, 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.120 but on the course of the month it's down fourteen percent. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.520 Have you been adding to your number one holding? 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.560 Has it at any point looked attract him to get 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.200 back in with more addition, I think, you know, the. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.039 Company's still really well positioned over the long term. You 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.880 look at like the ecosystem they built, the quality of 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.719 the product, and then you're also an iPhone upgrade cycle coming, 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.680 and you know, a placement cycle has been elongated, and 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.880 if you get a new form factor, I think that 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.200 could be like really attractive. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.280 And you know, at the end of the day, like 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.480 the evaluation has become more. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.080 Attractive, especially at these levels versus where they were, you know, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.920 six and nine months ago. You know, in addition, it 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.040 is one of the Max seven that hasn't been spending 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.200 a ton on large language models. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.080 So the capital intensity. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.600 And the free cash flow quality of the company is 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.360 still very, very high quality. 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.080 Go there, Tony for a moment, Because people were ringing 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.200 their hands about Apple before the trade war because of 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.480 a lack of urgency on AI, the implementation within Siri, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.800 this distraction that Tariff's cause does it set them back 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.280 even further about upgrading the product from an AI perspective. 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.240 Well, I think that they are, you know, constantly optimizing 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.320 their supply chains. Obviously it's additional work on their their plate, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.440 but I don't think that they are standing still on 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.720 the AI front. I think they're besting more actually, and 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.480 you see that, you know some news are them purchasing 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.800 more GPUs And you know, when I when I think 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.480 about the space, there's just a lot of things evolving 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:17.520 and what we thought a year ago. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.920 Uh has has kind of changed in a lot. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.160 Of ways in terms of, you know, who can participate 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.040 in AI and like what these large language models can 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.040 cost and which one is the best. So every time, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.320 like it feels like every month, there's a new headline 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.280 of who is in the lead. And so it could 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.760 be prudent of Apple to kind of, you know, focus 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.319 on what they're really good at, what their competitive vantage is, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.680 which is designing really high quality products that fit into 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.280 our lives, that can be incorporated elegantly. And at the 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.720 end of they do own that kind of ecosystem and 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.079 you know, over time, I think they can you know, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.160 drive value from that for their shareholders. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.320 Tony, let's end this conversation on Apple with a yes 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:03.920 or no. Does Apple manufacturer and assemble an iPhone in 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.679 the United States in the future. 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.720 I think it's possible in the very kind of long 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.280 term future. I think in the near term. And you 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.240 look at kind of what it takes the man manufacturing iPhone. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.160 I mean, you know, there's thousands of people that are 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.440 living at the factory that can be woken up, you know, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.880 anytime the hour to make a change. And so you know, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.600 I think that in the long term that could be 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.360 possible with additional advancements and robotics and AI. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.800 But I don't think it's going to be a next 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:35.160 year kind of thing, right. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.800 I saw a headline overnight that we think is a 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:43.040 critical right, which is China Semiconductor Industry Association issue this 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:48.079 emergency notice and they clarified that in the context of tariffs, 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:53.520 they define point of origin where a semiconductor is taped out, 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.720 in other words, where the electronic instruction set is formulated 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.959 before it goes to the fab And if you think 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.240 about the fabulous US names, many of which you have 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:08.040 big holdings in, they use TSMC or maybe Samsung. So 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.040 the tape out happens in those countries as well. How 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.520 much insulation do you think that gives them from the 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.720 heavy China tariffs on US products. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.520 Yeah, well, I think that if you take a step back, right, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.000 like the two countries have been trying to disentangle them 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:28.000 each other from major kind of supply chains and you know, 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.680 areas of where if you could substitute a domestic product 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.480 that would be preferred. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.480 And that's nothing new over the past few years. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.679 And I think that you know, this kind of the 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.920 latest piece of news is further kind of a step 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.600 in that direction, where you know, it doesn't make sense to. 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.480 Hurt yourself by kind of terrifying. 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.360 The only source that you have, and so like in 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.000 terms of stuff made in TSMC, like both countries need that, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.560 so it makes a little bit less sense to put 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.600 a high tariff on that when it's when it's sole source. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.920 So that's kind of my perspective. That's a continuation of 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.959 industrial policy that kind of kind of makes sense. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.880 Let's talk about the others though, that are exposed now. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.880 I'm interested as to whether you have holdings in those 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.880 that are manufacturing in the United States or looking to 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.040 even more with the cost money coming from federal government 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:21.760 wanting them made in the US, and what that does 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.199 to the business model if they ship to Asia to 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.360 China specifically, Tony, do you have to get out of 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:27.760 intels and Texas instruments? 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.320 Well, I think that over the long term, it's more 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.680 about the technology and the differentiation and what you can 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.679 the value add that you can. So if you have 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.400 leadership products, I think that's still number one, you know, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.559 I think number two. I think that divers sized supply chains, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.240 like serving the local industry that it's based out of 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.040 or the region is probably going to be a good thing. 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.000 And so at the end of the day, I think 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.080 it's those two things, like some flexibility manufacturing, but like 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.640 the main thing is the product, leadership and the seculor 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.760 trend that a company is kind of, you know, kind 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.320 of positioned to capitalize on. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.160 Tony, like all technology investors, you have had to digest 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.440 and understand communication from policymakers. How would you rate and 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.320 rank what you've heard from the President, Treasury, Secretary best 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:18.000 and others. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.640 Well, I'm a tech investor, so you know, geopolitics is 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.679 above my pay grade obviously, but you know, at the 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.960 end of the day, I think that the US leap 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.240 administration and the leaders that we have acted, you know, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.240 they will do what's best for the country for companies 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.520 here in the US. So I think that we need 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.800 to trust them and they do. You know, I think 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.160 they are trend trying their best, and you know, at 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.559 the end of the day, I think that they will 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.440 protect American interest and what's most important is keeping US 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.480 technology at the forefront. And you know, that's that's what's 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.960 what I look for as an investor. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.520 Tony one, thank you so much of trow price. 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.000 So important to have the investor take today and after 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:12.000 one long week Chinese social media and giant bite dance, 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.360 it saw its revenue jump twenty nine percent last year. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.280 It was driven by the global expansion of you guessed at. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:18.720 TikTok. 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.960 International sales grew thirty nine billion dollars, contributing about a 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.360 quarter of the company's revenue. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:24.640 It's all according to people. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.320 Briefed on the numbers, now that as the Chinese business slowed. Now, 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.760 of course, tensions between Washington and Beijing expect to impact 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.680 both the global economy possible sale of TikTok in the 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:35.360 United States. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:36.320 We've got to get to it. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:36.560 All. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.679 Mitchell Green, founder, managing partner of lead Edge Capital, longtime 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.000 investor in names like Byte Dances with us. Mitchell, have 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.240 you been adding to Byte Dance. What do you make 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.480 of where we stand in terms of TikTok in the 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:49.560 United States? 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.000 Yeah, and hey, Carolyn, thanks so much for having me on. 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.040 What do I think we can talk about that for 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.760 a while. The company continues to see you very well. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:03.440 As we've said past, in the grand scheme of things, 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.840 you know, uncertainty kills deals. I wish I could tell 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.000 you exactly where things stand in this negotiation between the 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.079 White House, White Dance, the Chinese government. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:14.600 Discussions are on tariffs. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.880 Look, we've always had frankly questions on the on the 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.280 US TikTok uh. You know, again, as I've mentioned in 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.880 the past, we model out TikTok usa to be worth zero. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.040 I suspect something will come of it. I don't know 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.680 if it's in a month from now, three months, or 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:32.800 now from six months or now. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:34.200 We shall see. 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.760 It is obviously a very valuable business that a lot 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.560 of constituents want to figure out, not only board members 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.360 and shareholders and the CEO of Bite Dance, but we 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.760 now have this giant taraph war going on between the 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:46.560 US and China, So. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:47.960 It's all going to get dragged into it and play 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:48.440 out together. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.520 Mitchell, you've been on the secondary market picking up Byte 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.000 Dance in recent months. Would you want exposure to us 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.360 TikTok if it was indeed extricated out of bite ants 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:01.560 and had US ownership. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.600 Absolutely, And we have also not bought any Byte Dance 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.640 shares this year. There's been some there's been some changes 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:09.240 with Sippius. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.640 A lot of people don't know about this publicly known 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.840 that Syphius came out and put some. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.800 Restrictions on what kinds of companies you could buy globally 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.440 related t if the AI model speed was fast enough 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.840 or not. It's a questionable area if White Dance falls 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.800 into this or not. But in order to just stay 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.080 conservative and be on the right side, you know, we 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.040 have not bought anymore of the last several months. 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:33.200 We do on it. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:38.080 What I like, What would I like to own TikTok Usa? Absolutely, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.480 if you know, if they're allowed existing investors, and again 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.200 about sixty percent of investors in the company are non 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.640 Chinese investors. If we could add to our position, obviously 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.560 it depends on price. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.440 You know, we could be quite interested, Mitchell. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.280 Starting Monday night into Tuesday morning, I started getting phone 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.160 calls that there was quite a lot of activity on 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.880 the secondary's market for byte dance valuation range two eighty 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.240 to three hundred and twenty billion, depending on the offer 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:09.880 lot size. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:10.160 Right. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.120 But to your point, what I was told is a 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.680 lot of that activity was from Asia, right, China, maybe Singapore. 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.440 But it followed the President on Sunday night. You may 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.120 have seen the clip on Air Force one saying that 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.680 if it weren't for tariffs that he'd put in place, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.480 they had a deal. How do you interpret that trading? 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.640 You know, if the outlook for the deal is poor, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.400 but you see private market investors in Asia trying to 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.080 get more of a foothold. 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.840 Oh, the Chinese business is doing phenomenally well, which is 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.240 absolutely incredible, given I don't think the Chinese economy is 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.080 like rowing right now, and I don't know if it's 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.160 far apart, but I mean it's just it's been unique. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:55.600 And you can look at some of the other ecomerce 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.200 businesses across China and so, actually, how are the performances 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.040 in right answers doing in China is strong. I wouldn't 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.480 read into I have no clue if the deal is 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.120 almost done or close to done or whatever. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.359 I have. When it comes to politics. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.840 I tend to just listen and not really make opinions 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:15.600 and I don't really know. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.479 Yeah, well, we'll see it again again. There's a handful 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.399 of people that need to be involved. Chi President of 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.359 the United States had. 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.359 The CEO bite dance, and I can't say any of 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:26.440 them are good friends of mine. 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.919 So if they do telephone you, you let us know. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.440 I'll let you know if she calls me die. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.119 There is a there is a technology conversation here right. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.080 I go back to when I was at CEES and 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:43.119 at GtC very recently, and Jensen Wong's point the CEO 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.480 of and Video that basically more than fifty percent of 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.920 all the computer scientists in the world working on artificial 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.479 intelligence are doing so in China or they are from China. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.720 What kind of future is there to sort of work 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.800 with that country on technology and founding new companies. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:08.240 I strongly believe whether it's technology transfer, technology exports, imports. 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.600 Like the trade trade is global, we all need to 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.800 figure out how to work together. China plus the us 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:17.840 working together is a good thing. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:23.119 I am a strong believer in like the education system 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:28.040 in China, the entrepreneurship in China as well as in 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.680 the United States as well. But again, like for instance, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.800 we I've talked about this another I think I'm Bloomberg 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:35.600 and other sessions. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.000 Chinese regulate social media. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.880 You know, in the United States, kids go on TikTok 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.760 and post ridiculous videos about all kinds of stupid stuff. 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.560 In China, they learn about science and math on TikTok. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.960 I think maybe we should ask should we be regulating 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:53.600 this stuff more? 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:54.480 Should we be. 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.800 Repeeling some of these laws that don't hold social media 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.040 companies accountable by the. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.560 Way that gets does in China? And so I think 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.240 there are things that we should be learning at. And 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:04.879 some of those things that are happening in China and 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.880 applying to the United. 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.239 States interesting tat Mitchell and I want to go there 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.480 because you have exposure, not just to China. We bring 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.280 you on because you've been so long in the names 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.560 like Ali Baba, you're an aunt, you're in byte Dance, 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.879 long term investor, understanding that economy. We look at the 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.760 rest of your old portfolio. You know, well, us exposure 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:26.359 too uber bumble, you know, Europe with Spotify. How difficult 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.920 is it to remain committed to China right now when 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.119 Sophius is changing up the rules, When you are unable 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.480 to commit capital and the way you'd like to, it's complicated. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.960 And again, most of our business is actually North America 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:40.719 and Western Europe. You know, we have a team of 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.080 eighteen associates that are twenty two to twenty four years 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.320 old that you know, speak about nine thousand companies a year, 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.520 and we all you know, we might speak to ten 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.720 to twenty companies and all across Stasia. So what we've 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.359 done in China is a very handful of some of 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.479 the largest businesses over there where they could effectively be there. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.840 They are a to be public companies, it just happened 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.000 to be private. We tend to like to be contrarian, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:06.679 you know. 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.400 And it was funny a year ago, nine months ago, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.400 nobody liked wanted to invest anything in China. Yet then 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.320 you saw stocks like Ali Baba go from once, you know, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.080 from sixty seventy dollars a share, it's like one hundred 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.159 and thirty hundred and twenty. Now people were liking China 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.000 again because they saw Chi and Jack ma. I think 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.199 it's some conference together and I don't know where all 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.240 about this today. Maybe it's back at one hundred a share. 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.240 So this stuff is so volatile, but we find that 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.200 you buy China when the rest of the world hates it, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.200 you can tend to make lots of money. But again, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.800 most of the stuff we invest in is right back 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.600 in in the United States and right now. Look, I 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.199 think in the terriff situation, I can have an opinion 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.280 of it today, it'll probably change. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.160 In a week, a month, and six months. 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.880 But uncertainty is what actually slows down the economy, right 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.080 And you know, our portfolio has made the high high 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.520 margin software companies that don't have direct you know, inputs 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.679 coming overseas and things being chipped in. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:03.960 With that being said, if. 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.360 You sell airline software, are you sell software manufacturing companies? 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.680 And those companies are nervous about what's going to happen 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:12.439 in their businesses. They might start to pull back on 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.320 spending and the whole thing kind of like unravels on itself. 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.520 And if there's cuts to R and D in healthcare 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:21.800 research and you're in a name like Benchling, which is 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.040 all about community of scientists. I'm really interested in Mitchell 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.119 ultimately how difficult this environment is when some of the 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.120 companies that we thought were going to go public now 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.080 can't or don't want to. How is that impacting the 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.120 way in which you raise the next fund for example? 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.400 Yeah, so we were so, we were very We don't. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.359 Talk about performance on obviously and pull me or anything 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:50.520 like that, but you know, we believe that investor funds 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.359 that took advantage of getting the quidity and what's called DPI. 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:57.960 It's so much money you've given back on a net 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.960 basis to your investors over the last few years, in 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.080 the last five years, is really going to matter for 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:04.960 funds as they go forward graating money. 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:07.840 We are we are going to everybody. 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.199 Thought two thousand and six, twenty twenty five is going 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.000 to be the year of the IPO. There was maybe 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.879 this giant IPO. Aa, Well that's dead, Like that's not 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:16.800 happening now. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:18.399 Again. I think these companies could go public. 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.520 It's just the question of what valuation will could they 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:21.800 and will they then go public? 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.679 And you know, your guess is as good as mine. 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.000 But I think this liquidity drought is going to continue, 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.120 and I think as a result of liquidity drought, you're 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.679 going to have a lot of endowments and foundations and 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.960 other big institutional investors that are networks that are over 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:39.200 allocated to private equity, venture capital, growth equity, real estate, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.760 private equity, everything that are going that are. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.359 Going to unlock the secondary market. And the secondary market 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:45.439 has already been busy. 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.800 It is about to if this continues, call it six months, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:51.720 nine months, and twelve months, you are about to see 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.280 a huge amount of institutions that are going to be 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.000 massively over allocated to private equity, that are going to 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.360 need to turn to the secondary markets and sell things 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.440 that for us will create a great opportunity. Did you 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.600 want to be buying from sellers that are forced to sell? 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.360 Mitchell Green, lead Edge Capital. Thank you really appreciated conversation, Caroline. 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:11.399 What you got a's time. 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.320 For talking tech head and first up, Logitech It withdrew 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.800 its full year twenty twenty six outlook due to quote 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.040 continuing uncertainties of the tariff environment. 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:20.520 Now Vonda Bell analysts. 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.840 Say this is a sensible move, but the company's margins 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:24.679 will certainly be challenged, and you saw the impact on 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.800 the shares plus Tesla, it stopped taking orders in China 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:30.840 for its model ES Sedans its model Export utility vehicles, 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.920 both of which are imported from the United States. That's 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.120 after the country has raised tariffs on one another. Of course, 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.520 this could be a setback to the company's already shaky 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.359 position in the Chinese market. Meanwhile, Ali Baba co founder 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.320 Jack Maer He's worn that AI shouldn't replace humans, but 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.840 work instead to meet their every need. The Chinese billionaire 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.600 who wants like an AI to love here hogued that 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.119 the technology should protect livelihoods and make lives better. 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.679 Okay, coming up analog devices, Texas instruments, big declines. We 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:04.760 take it deep dive into two a city's top semiconductor pigs. 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.600 The timing of that call very different from where the 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.160 stocks are heading right now. This has been bo Technology. 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.359 Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology and Caroline hid in New 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:26.320 York and. 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:30.240 I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. San Francisco's mayor, Daniel Lurie, 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:34.160 is pledging an economic and tech revival, aiming to restore 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.200 the city's status as a global innovation hub. I sat 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:39.879 down with the mayor to discuss his growth strategy in 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:40.920 the face of tariffs. 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.199 First, we're the most beautiful city in the world. Second, 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:49.080 the horse power is here, the intellectual horsepower is here. 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:53.680 We have great universities, including UCSF around here, and young 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:54.840 people want to be in. 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:57.440 Urban environments. 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.200 They want to be in San Francisco. 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:02.359 That's been proven truth throughout history, and we're going to 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:06.880 prove that again. We have great arts and culture institutions. 0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:10.040 We were just named the culinary capital of the country, 0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:13.280 so we have so much to be proud of. And 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.639 we know that workers want to be here. Our CEOs 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:20.560 who were talking to they know that their employees want 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.920 to be in San Francisco. No offense to my friends 0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:28.760 down in the Peninsula, but people live in San Francisco 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:30.399 and we want them to work here. And we do 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.359 have to get competitive, but it starts with safe and 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:39.360 clean streets. Our property crime rates have dropped thirty five percent, 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.920 Our violent crime has dropped fifteen percent. Car break ins 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.960 in February the lowest in twenty two years. This is 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:51.320 a safe American city and we want everybody coming back 0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.399 to work here, to play here, and to live here. 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.480 Mis very how is the White House and is tariffs 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:03.160 Paulus going to impact your ability to do what you've 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:06.639 just outlined, bring more of the technology industry to the city. 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:10.960 Well, listen, we are all and you all are reporting 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:16.080 on it minute by minute. The uncertainty is impacting everybody 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:18.359 around the globe, and so we have to plan for 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.680 that here at city Hall. We're working with our department heads. 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.359 We have a big budget deficit. We inherited one of 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:28.600 the largest deficits in our city's history. So we're working 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.760 day and night to make sure that we tighten our belts, 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.680 we deliver core services to our taxpayers and to our residents, 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:40.240 making sure that we focus on public safety, focus on 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:43.000 the behavioral health crisis and the drug crisis that is 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:47.600 causing people to feel the disorder on our streets. But 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:51.639 that is all starting to improve. And so we can 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:54.720 only control what we can control here in San Francisco, 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:58.399 and that's our fifteen point nine billion dollar budget. We 0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:00.960 have a one point one billion dollar budget deficit. Over 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.159 the next two years, we're going to get that under control. 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:06.919 We're going to fix our structure or budget deficit, and 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:09.280 I'm telling you we're then going to be off to 0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:10.119 the races. 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:11.679 Data bricks knows it. 0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:15.359 They just secured an office space one hundred and fifty 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.480 thousand square feet open AI just open new headquarters by 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:24.399 Chase Center. We are on the cusp of lift off 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.720 here in San Francisco, and we want everybody to come 0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:27.520 be a part of it. 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.399 So that was my conversation with San Francisco Meytor, Daniel Lurie, 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.080 and Caro. Like the pitch to the technology industry seems 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.840 to be San Francisco is beautiful and it's full of nerds, 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:41.159 and that's not really a policy platform. But if you 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.600 think about how the history of Silicon Valley's works, right, 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.760 there are many tech people here in the city, and 0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:47.760 what do they do each day? 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:48.000 Right? 0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:49.800 Where are all the big tech companies that they. 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:50.400 Go to work at. 0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:55.240 They're not an SF they reverse commute out to the valley. 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.760 But also what I wonder about is when we've got 0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:01.280 an economic quandary coming from the United States, when advertising 0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:03.880 dollars might be pulled back, when we've already got a 0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:07.200 meta for example, that has been laying off people, how 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:12.080 does that affect in NEEF economy going forward. We'll have 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:13.840 to debate that a little bit more in terms of 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:15.680 what's happening over in San Francisco. 0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:17.600 But we also want a little bit more in. 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:21.240 Context about what the global tech policies look like in 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.400 this current context. That meta has to navigate, that alphabet 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:26.720 has to navigate, that these SF giants have to navigate. 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:30.080 Liza Tobins with US Managin director at are not Global, 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:33.360 and Liza, I'm so interested in just your take right 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.560 now and where we stand in this so called tit 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:38.880 for tat that today China's leader came out and said, 0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:41.800 it's a joke. We're going to stop raising to meet you. 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.760 But we stand at one hundred more than one one 0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:47.560 hundred and twenty five percent tariff on US goods. The 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.400 US has one hundred and forty five percent tariff on 0:28:50.480 --> 0:28:51.360 Chinese goods. 0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:52.720 Where do we go from here? 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:56.560 Yeah, So, of course, about a week and a half ago, 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:59.920 President Trump declared a trade war on the entire world, 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:03.160 and then over the last couple of days it seems 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.640 to have kind of slipped into an isolate China strategy. 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:10.200 Clearly the president is torn between his deal making and 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.240 his decoupling instincts. He's hoping for a phone call with 0:29:13.360 --> 0:29:16.280 Chi Jinping. But what we've learned really over the last 0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.880 twenty years of US China relations is that US trade 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:23.560 negotiators are always disappointed with what Paiging brings to the table. 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.000 And I'm seeing things play out this week that remind 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:28.680 me of when I was in the White House in 0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:32.040 twenty twenty, and that, of course was when President Trump 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.960 got his Phase one trade deal with the Chinese, and 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.720 then a couple months later he started getting seriously disappointed 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:42.320 and blaming Sheijinping for COVID, which of course tanked the 0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:46.560 global economy and he felt ruined his electoral prospects, and 0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:49.160 so in some of the President's comments just a few 0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:52.200 days ago in a speech, he's talking about she He's 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.840 hoping for a phone call, but he's referring back to 0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:58.040 COVID and saying, you know, I like Sheijinping, we get 0:29:58.080 --> 0:29:59.840 along great, but COVID. 0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:01.400 That was a bridge too far. 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.880 That's what the president's saying. So he seems to be 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:08.680 remembering the disappointment and the anger from twenty twenty, and 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.800 he seems to be shifting from deal making to decoupling. 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.360 We go to you because of your depth of expertise, 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:18.600 when you've worked with the CIA, when you've been in 0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:22.080 the US Indo Pacific Command analysis for them as well, Liza, 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:24.600 not to mention what you've done over at the when 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.720 you're sc CP SCSP, I should call it, of course, 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:32.040 and I'm interested, Lisa therefore on where you go from, 0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:34.960 who has the upper hand, where the TikTok's involved in 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:37.760 this negotiation. Just take us forward as to what plays 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.240 out next. If we are seeing a US president getting 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:45.160 more and more triggered by what happened in twenty twenty, right. 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:49.000 So I think we could potentially see some kind of 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:52.040 a deal. Clearly, the President still would like a deal, 0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:58.320 perhaps involving some tariff concessions, maybe americanizing TikTok, although he's 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:02.160 already conceded that aging will retain the algorithm, which is 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:06.600 really the brain that controls TikTok and controls Americans media diet. 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:08.200 So we may or may not see that. But I 0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:11.680 want to remind your audience not to over index on 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.240 the strategic importance of a deal, because we've always been 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:19.440 disappointed by how China actually implements that deal. So I 0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:22.000 think if folks are looking for some kind of grand 0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:28.040 bargain that really makes some goes beyond symbolism and short 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:33.320 term measures and really addresses the fundamental imbalances of Chinese economy, 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.960 this massive trade surplus, unfair trade practices. They're going to 0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:39.360 be disappointed by that. So markets will react and go 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:42.640 up and down on news or rumors of a potential deal, 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:45.240 But a true grand bargain is really off the table. 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:48.920 I think, Liza, I'd like to hold you to account 0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.160 on two points that you've made, or at least debate them. 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:55.520 One isolate China as an accidental strategy. And then the 0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:59.000 data that you just flag the deficit between the United 0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:01.720 States and China. So this is the ECTR function on 0:32:01.760 --> 0:32:05.280 the Bloomberg terminal. It's twenty twenty three data showing the 0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:07.680 deficit with China two hundred and sixty billion dollars. But 0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:10.120 I think I'm right in saying prelim data showed the 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:15.640 deficit growing in twenty twenty four. Materially, when we think 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:18.400 about technology, what we're talking about is a country that 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:22.640 dominates the manufacturing of most of the world's consumer electronics 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:26.200 and other things. So forget numbers and tariffs and markets 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:30.080 and trade. Do you see the White House ever resulting 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:33.600 this policy in more of that stuff happening in America. 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:38.640 The President certainly wants to, and he and his advisors 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.880 that are constantly talking about reindustrialization. I mean, the problem 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:46.560 is the devils in the details here, and it does 0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:51.360 it's unclear if President Trump really understands the details and 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:55.080 the extreme intricacies of these supply chains and what it 0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:59.560 actually takes to reindustrialize. And of course there's big structural 0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:02.320 challenge is like do we have the workforce for this. 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:07.760 The administration talks about manufacturing jobs coming back. Well, that's great, 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.760 but actually we have a shortage of skilled manufacturing workforce, 0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:15.800 and advanced manufacturing is now a knowledge industry. This is 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:19.400 a highly skilled profession. It's more like software coding and 0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:23.040 applying AI to the factory floor. And it's not yet 0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:27.000 clear to me if that kind of advanced manufacturing is 0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:30.520 front and center on the administration's agenda. 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:31.840 It's very much right. 0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:36.120 Now a teriffs first, tax cuts, the regulation and energy 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:38.800 and those may be a great start, but they also 0:33:38.840 --> 0:33:41.800 need to be kind of leaning into these more structural. 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:43.840 Issues suddenly if they want to make iPhones in the 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:48.280 United States. Pizeitoven, managing director of Ghano Global, was great 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:50.600 to have you join us. Thank you now Federal is 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:53.120 a bank of New York President John Williams. He expects 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:57.160 slow economic growth, high unemployment, and a pickup in inflation, 0:33:57.320 --> 0:33:59.120 all of this due to the US tarris policy and 0:33:59.160 --> 0:34:01.920 reduced immigration. Take listen to what he had to say 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:02.640 just moments ago. 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:08.760 Well uncertainly about the economic outlook reflects many factors. Effects 0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.600 of tariffs and trade policy and the economy are certainly 0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:14.440 at the top of the list. For example, my business 0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:17.719 in financial market contacts highlight that this has made it 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:40.120 more difficult to plan for investments and for hiring. 0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:46.480 Let's get right back to financial markets. It's Friday, at 0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.400 the end of a long week. Basically flat on the 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:50.839 Nasdaq one hundred, but up more than five percent over 0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:53.640 the course of the week. Basically flat on the Philadelphia 0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:56.839 Semiconductor Index, down to tens percent, but up more than 0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:58.839 seven percent on the course of the week. And Cara, 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:01.200 if you allow me to there was a really important 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.920 headline overnight that I think our audience needs to understand, 0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:09.480 and it came from China's semiconductor industry body, basically citing 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:13.200 customs regulators that how are they going to define the 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:17.080 point of origin of a semiconductor right think about global 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.640 supply chains. And in the market right now you see 0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:22.759 names like in video higher and Vidia doesn't manufacture its 0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:25.960 own chips, names like Intel and Texas instruments that do 0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.640 significantly lower. Here's what they said. The point of origin 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.160 for a chip in deciding whether to apply tariffs or 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.719 not will be the point it is taped out. And 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:37.120 what that means is when an American company, for example, 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:40.040 is done designing its chip in San Diego or here 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.520 in the Bay Area, it then needs to send the 0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:47.680 designs to a contract manufacturer. We're talking TSMC and Korean 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:51.880 names like Samsung, but that happens locally, and so they're saying, 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:54.839 that's how we decide where your chip comes from. You 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:56.560 tell me the big story that we've learned in the 0:35:56.640 --> 0:35:59.200 last two years about all these American chip makers. What 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:00.200 are they actually not? 0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:04.360 Well, they're not makers of chips, but some of them 0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:05.880 are trying to be. Some of them trying to be 0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:08.800 contract makers of chips. Intel, for one, which is actually 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:12.000 expanding its presence of making chips in the United States. 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:13.439 What does that mean in terms of business model? 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:15.120 You've just got to take out China from the equation 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:18.759 and on the flip side. Of course, domestic chip makers 0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:21.760 in China rallied hard. You saw the CSI three hundred 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.880 index up more than thirty percent on the day. This 0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:27.560 had real tailwinds for Chinese local players and of cause 0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:29.320 pressure on some of the local makers here in the 0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:29.879 United States. 0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:32.279 Said yeah, And the one thing I would say is 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:35.160 that it all comes back to the end market. What 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:39.000 does China do. It makes most electronics high end or 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:41.840 low end, And so that's why I've tracking this so closely. 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.640 But you're exactly right. But in some of the names 0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:47.360 you've just mentioned, analysts are paying attention for other reasons. 0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:48.000 They certainly are. 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:50.359 Let's get to one of those analysts calls because likes 0:36:50.400 --> 0:36:53.160 of Aanamon Devices or Texas Instruments, as you say, pressure today. 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.040 But City named actually those two companies, and it's top 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:59.520 semiconductive picks amid tar of pressures and recession fears. Like 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:03.399 City manager director and semiconductor analyst Chris Stanley writing, high 0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:07.440 end analog companies such as ADI and TXN have outperformed 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:10.440 during downturns. We would expect the same to occur in 0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:14.240 a recession, with ADI performing best given higher margins. Nimas 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:16.480 rym Vstella can can break down some of the moves 0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:19.440 on Semi got a fair few downgrades in terms of 0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.040 price targets today as well on Semi meant to feel 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:23.840 more of headwind versus some of these players. 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:27.280 According to City, absolutely, I think people are still really 0:37:27.320 --> 0:37:29.640 struggling to kind of figure out what this environment is 0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:31.719 going to be like for different chip makers, depending on 0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:35.759 their in market, depending on their manufacturing systems, their supply chains. 0:37:35.800 --> 0:37:38.200 It's all very uncertain, very up in the air at 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:41.480 the moment. So beyond the naming TI on one of 0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:44.160 its top picks, City also said it was taken out 0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:47.440 the lawnmower. Those are exact words, cutting estimates by twenty 0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:50.200 percent on average across the board for chip makers. That 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:53.440 just speaks to how much uncertainty there is when it 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:55.439 comes to this sector at this point in time. 0:37:56.600 --> 0:37:59.960 They the firm City had this estimate a while ago 0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:03.319 that the socks the index would drop twenty percent if 0:38:03.320 --> 0:38:05.040 there were to be a recession, and I think I'm 0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:08.560 right in saying that they now assume a recession is 0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:11.000 a firm there's a lot happening in the market. You 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:15.720 also wrote about the takes out point of origin story 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:18.600 yourself this morning, just go back to explain some of 0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:20.560 the moves of the market in the here and now. 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:25.799 Yeah, so absolutely, like you were saying before, companies like TI, Intel, 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:30.520 Global Foundries, Microchip, all these have sort of domestic manufacturing 0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:33.680 plants for their products, and these are the stocks that 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:36.800 are really falling today. Other ones that do most of 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:42.040 their manufacturing are Broad Taiwan, Simi, Vidia, AMD, Qualcom, BROCM 0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:44.640 all those names. They're probably higher in the morning. It's 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.280 obviously a very volatile situation. There's a lot of cross 0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:49.760 currents going on right now, but certainly we are seeing 0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:54.880 Texas instruments in particular weaker today, Intel particularly weaker today, 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:57.560 whereas companies like Nvidia are higher. 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.319 Let's go to Nvidia for a moment, because for an 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:04.400 analyst over at City has actually been downgrading in video 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:08.719 as well. Their key concern is that these hyperscalers, meta 0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:11.560 alphabet you name them, are going to actually start to 0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.360 curtail they're spending on AI data centers. 0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:17.120 How much of an overhang is that for names. 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:19.279 Like whether you're a fablus or fab kind of a 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:19.840 chip maker. 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:22.759 Well, for Nvidia in particular, I had to go and 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:24.640 look but I think forty percent or so of their 0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:28.680 revenue comes from just four companies, which is Microsoft, Meta, Alphabet, 0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:31.520 and Amazon. So to the extent those companies pull back, 0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:33.680 and I'll say Alphabet a couple of days ago it 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:36.160 had a bigger cloud conference and it did affirm its 0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:39.600 CAPEX plans. Microsoft, you know, it affirmed its own plans 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.919 earlier this year. So right now, it seems like maybe 0:39:41.920 --> 0:39:43.839 for the next twelve months, all those spending plants are 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:46.960 pretty intact. But if we get to twelve months from now, 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:49.400 and maybe especially if we're not seeing a huge ROI 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:52.360 on all this AI spending, especially if the cost picture 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:55.560 has changed dramatically due to tariffs, if the whole picture 0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:58.680 has just changed because of weaker economic growth, all these 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:01.160 other kind of factors, it would not be super surprising 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:04.600 under those circumstances if these companies started pulling back on 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:08.040 their CAPEX, especially as it retains to their AI infrastructure, 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:11.480 which is at this point a lot of Nvidia products, 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:13.600 and what that means for them in terms of their growth, 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:17.319 in terms of their profitability. While just given its customer concentration, 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:19.880 that would be a pretty dramatic hit a company like 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:21.040 it in video. 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:24.359 Blimbo's Ryan vlastatica terrific, Thank you very much. 0:40:32.719 --> 0:40:36.120 A single shipyard in China now produces more ships every 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:40.279 year than all of the American shipyards combined. Think of that, 0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:43.160 and it was a business that we used to dominate. 0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:44.720 President Trump. 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:47.360 There now one startup looking to manufacture ships in the 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:48.040 United States. 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.520 It's blue Water Autonomy, preparing. 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:52.960 To build large vessels able to travel between San Francisco 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.880 and Hawaii without a captain or a crew. Rdan Hamilton 0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:00.839 as the CEO co founder of blue Water. Rather, you're 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:03.120 coming out of stell fourteen million dollars in the bank. 0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:07.040 You've got vcs that batch your prior really successful companies. 0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:11.040 You were in warehouse automation prior to this. How much 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:16.040 is the time now to be making automated ships? Suddenly 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:18.600 far more prevalent when we've got us China tensions. 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.600 The time is definitely now. If we hear the current administration, 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:25.480 they're talking about shipbuilding, shipbuilding and shipbuilding, and we're designing 0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:28.160 and building autonomous ships. And when you make them autonomous, 0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:32.400 you can remove the bridge, the birthing, the galley, the showers, 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:34.520 so you can make them a lot smaller. And because 0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.239 they're smaller, you don't have to build them at the 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:39.080 big navy shipyards. So we should continue to build the 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:42.400 big warships, the guided missile destroyers, the aircraft carriers, the 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:45.799 submarines as quickly as possible. But our ship can be 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:48.960 built at all these mid tier shipyards that have capacity today. 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.360 Why is now the right time from a technology perspective 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:55.279 as well, what is going into making automation far more 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:58.799 easy or certainly not easy, but far more able to 0:41:59.000 --> 0:41:59.640 enact ry now? 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:01.160 Well, this is a hard problem. 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:03.359 This is not easy because for designing ships that can 0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:05.880 operate across the open ocean, and the last thing our 0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:07.719 Navy needs is for these ships to be dead in 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:09.800 the water of the mill the ocean, and the ocean 0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:13.000 is extreme. You're thinking about extreme temperatures and salt water. 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:15.840 In fact, ships get hit by lightning, and so we 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.960 need to build a very It happens as we did 0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:20.960 research for this and we talked to the chief engineers 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:23.840 on some of the sort of workboats that operate around. 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:24.200 The United States. 0:42:24.239 --> 0:42:26.080 They said, yeah, last week my ship got hit by 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:29.480 lightning and a fried all the electronics. And so there's 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:32.200 a ton of challenges to do this. But we feel 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:34.080 we have the team to do this because we've been 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:37.160 at some of the most successful robotic companies in the 0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:39.880 United States, and two of my co founders include myself. 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:41.480 We were also in the Navy. 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:46.800 Ryland. The big picture is to modernize the maritime industry, 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.480 but this is a Navy application. As you just point out, 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:55.919 American dynamism, this big emphasis on the private sector's relationship 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:59.040 with the military industrial complex. What is it you actually 0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:02.279 want the president to do to allow for you to 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:03.560 make this a success. 0:43:04.440 --> 0:43:06.440 So we want to move fast, and we'll move as 0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:08.560 fast as the Navy wants us to move. And so 0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:10.960 we definitely want the president to continue to focus on 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:15.400 shipbuilding and innovation, especially around autonomous systems. And there are autonomous 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:17.240 systems that are in the air, that are on the surface, 0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:20.480 and that are underwater. Our focus is on these autonomous 0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:23.080 ships that can operate on the surface of the water 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:25.440 and have high endurance and range, the range that you 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:26.640 need for the Pacific Ocean. 0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:32.480 Anderill picked Ohio for its skilled labor and for its 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:36.520 history and aviation. For example, where is your Ohio? Where 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.120 do you think you need to build these ships? 0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:40.719 So we'll have more to announce later this year. But 0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:43.600 we've definitely been looking for the perfect place to go 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:45.359 build these ships, and there are a lot of really 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:47.400 good options, whether it's on the East coast or the 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:49.400 West coast or sort of in the Gulf, and so 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:51.000 we'll make an announcement later this year. 0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:53.799 You were early leader in Amazon Robotics. When you are 0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:58.120 building six river systems. How good is US at manufacturing? Now? 0:43:58.160 --> 0:43:59.880 Can we bring back what we want to bring that? 0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:03.319 Yeah, so the US is actually really good at advanced manufacturing. 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:06.520 So early in my career I was at Amazon Robotics 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:08.160 when there are a couple thousand robots. 0:44:07.840 --> 0:44:08.239 In the field. 0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:12.000 They're now over a million robots in Amazon warehouses throughout 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.600 the world. That is amazing what that company has done 0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:16.840 over the last ten years. So when it comes to 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:18.960 complex systems where you need to take sort of commercial 0:44:18.960 --> 0:44:21.200 off the shelf components and put them together and then 0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:23.560 write the software on top, we're amazing at that. 0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:28.520 Rylan Hamilinson, CEO, co founder of blue Water Autonomy, you 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:32.120 have to come back when you announce the location rights. 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:33.960 That's how it works. That does it for this distion 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:37.720 of Bloomberg Technology. What a week? This is what markets 0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:39.440 look like Caroline. I mean, it's kind of odd in 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:41.600 a way to give a snapshot of a session in 0:44:41.640 --> 0:44:44.640 the moment and now's that one hundred higher by modestly 0:44:44.880 --> 0:44:48.439 right pressure on US listed shares of Chinese names. Take 0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:49.440 it away, what are you seeing. 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:51.760 What's extraordinary is we had a week where we're actually 0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:55.880 more than five percent higher, but what a volatile five days. 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:58.560 The bond market has seen extraordinary moves, and then over 0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:00.960 the course of the month that now's back, it's lower ed. 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.440 Happy weekend everyone, This is Bloomberg. 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:08.160 H