Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Nernificent. I am Danny Fernandez and
Speaker 1: today if what are we what are recovering today? This
Speaker 1: is a actual topic. I'm pretty excited about the sports.
Speaker 1: I've watched sports. I've been really excited. I've gotten we
Speaker 1: can go deep. There's a lot of stuff that we
Speaker 1: don't even have in the dock that I'm probably gonna
Speaker 1: go into tangents about. But the sports is very deep,
Speaker 1: it has long history. A lot of people are hearing
Speaker 1: about it now because the money in it, because that's
Speaker 1: what drives everyone. Since more televised, I feel like now,
Speaker 1: and just the amount of leagues which we'll get into.
Speaker 1: And we have a old board of our Los Angeles
Speaker 1: team like outside my place, so it's legit. Yeah Valiant, Yeah,
Speaker 1: used to be the Clippers up there, but not anymore.
Speaker 1: Were like, we're replacing you. This is really great because
Speaker 1: at Nertificent, like we said, it's a show for everyone.
Speaker 1: And this is actually a topic one of the few topics,
Speaker 1: but yeah, one of the topics that I'm not as
Speaker 1: well versed in, so how to do a lot of
Speaker 1: research on this. Although I do have friends which will
Speaker 1: be having one of them join us in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Malik Forte, who's a friend of mine who is now
Speaker 1: in the Overwatch League. Are you host? I saw a
Speaker 1: commercial for him. Yeah, he's a commentator for a minute,
Speaker 1: like he was a gaming editor as well, and of
Speaker 1: course he was at nertict Um before that. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: been a commentator on Overwatch League, he's been part of
Speaker 1: blizz Con, he's done fighting game for me. He even,
Speaker 1: you know, grabbed the sticks a few times himself, so
Speaker 1: he's he's we get both sides. I'm really excited. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he'll be joining us in a little bit it
Speaker 1: but just kick us off if you have no idea
Speaker 1: what e sports is. It is a form of competition
Speaker 1: using video games. So it's most commonly a form that's
Speaker 1: organized in multiplayer video game competitions now primarily between professional players.
Speaker 1: So we'll get into that, as far as how to
Speaker 1: go pro, how to go viral, how to go viral,
Speaker 1: and let's go into our very first of many sidebars.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take us on. So the fact that it's
Speaker 1: called the sports is probably one of the most debated
Speaker 1: facts about the sports. A lot of people don't think
Speaker 1: that it should be called E sports. I remember when
Speaker 1: they had, are the heroes of the Storm tournament that
Speaker 1: they had, the college league they have and it was
Speaker 1: airing on ESPN, and people like, why is this on ESPN?
Speaker 1: This isn't a sport and what silly is? ESPN also
Speaker 1: shows World Series of Poker, which which is like, it's
Speaker 1: the same difference. But to really tackle this argument, the
Speaker 1: definition of a sport is an activity involving physical exertion
Speaker 1: and skill, in which an individual or team competes against
Speaker 1: another or others for entertainment. I feel like the only
Speaker 1: real debatable part about this is the amount of physical exertion. Now,
Speaker 1: what one thing I can tell you is there is
Speaker 1: a desparate difference between your average person trying to play
Speaker 1: a video game and a professional player because it takes
Speaker 1: a lot of hand eye coordination. You have to have
Speaker 1: a certain quickness with your fingers. So the debate is
Speaker 1: valid and strong. But I'm gonna go ahead and say
Speaker 1: it is indeed of sport. And if you don't believe me,
Speaker 1: just play video games for over three hours and tell
Speaker 1: me how those fingers. And these are professionals that that
Speaker 1: will get into but there are essentially I mean, they're
Speaker 1: training every day a lot of them, some of them.
Speaker 1: One of our friends, actually, Janelle Santa Cruz, I know
Speaker 1: her brother was living in a house because he got
Speaker 1: picked up as a professional player. Um was living in
Speaker 1: a house with other competitors or other people on his
Speaker 1: team in order to compete. And now many many game
Speaker 1: developers now are actually they design their games based off
Speaker 1: of professional e sport. Oh yeah, we'll get deep into
Speaker 1: that towards the end of this because I have lots
Speaker 1: of thoughts about it. It really has made an impact
Speaker 1: on gaming. But before we go there, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the history. Let's get into it deep diving into the
Speaker 1: history of e sports. So the earliest known video game
Speaker 1: competition took place on October nineteenth, nineteen two at Stanford
Speaker 1: University for the game Space War Space War Stanfords Hugh
Speaker 1: Stanford had to add an extra one in there. Uh.
Speaker 1: Stanford students were invited to an Intergalactic Space War Olympics,
Speaker 1: whose grand prize was a year subscription to Rolling Stone.
Speaker 1: That's kind of interesting, like those two things together actually,
Speaker 1: given that time, very truly humble beginnings. Now that like
Speaker 1: the rewards are in the millions, but back the first
Speaker 1: one to get a subscription Rolling Stone. I mean I
Speaker 1: would take that now, to be honest. Oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: very quickly it jumps up to even spicier because in
Speaker 1: the seventies, nineties, eighties, I'd said that all out of order.
Speaker 1: But it got it got bigger, the tournaments started becoming
Speaker 1: a big thing. But I don't want to get too
Speaker 1: ahead of myself, and I just want to take a
Speaker 1: quick stop because during the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: video game players and tournaments began being featured in popular
Speaker 1: websites and magazines, including Life and Time. One of the
Speaker 1: most well known classic arcade game players is Billy Mitchell's.
Speaker 1: He's mostly known for his high scores in six games,
Speaker 1: including Pac Man and Donkey Kong. But most people will
Speaker 1: know Billy Mitchell from that movie The King of Kong,
Speaker 1: mostly because he painted as a bad guy, because every
Speaker 1: movie needs like a good guy and a bad guy.
Speaker 1: I love it because the name of the villain and
Speaker 1: um karate kid is Billy. I love it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say right before then, in uh in nine
Speaker 1: we had the Space Invaders Championship was held, which was
Speaker 1: held by Atari, and that was the earliest large scale
Speaker 1: video game in competition, So that attracted ten thousand participants
Speaker 1: across the US, and that I think helped establish it
Speaker 1: as more of a competitive mainstream. At the time, it
Speaker 1: was still a hobby, but definitely something that people were
Speaker 1: paying attention to. Oh yeah, and then were really when
Speaker 1: it really blew up, because video games as a whole
Speaker 1: kind of stepped it up and it was taken into
Speaker 1: a huge competitive level and it's all the rise of
Speaker 1: PC gaming. Along with this came the first true E
Speaker 1: sports competition read Annihilation had tournaments for the first person
Speaker 1: shooter Quake, which is widely considered to have been the
Speaker 1: first real instance of E sports. I remember this, and
Speaker 1: if you don't know what Quake is, uh, we'll take
Speaker 1: it back. It's basically like a Doom esque shooter, except
Speaker 1: it had This was the first kind of versus mode
Speaker 1: of that, and you had these. It was the kind
Speaker 1: of same first person shooter guy in the bottom. I
Speaker 1: was a huge fan. I never really got to play
Speaker 1: it because my parents didn't buy it for me. I
Speaker 1: had the captain crunch out with their own like bootleg
Speaker 1: oh man. Yeah. So carrying on with that, more e
Speaker 1: sports tournaments started to pop up in the nineties, including
Speaker 1: which was Nintendo World Championships and that actually toured across
Speaker 1: the US as well, and they held their finals in
Speaker 1: the Universal Studios Hollywood and California. I just need to
Speaker 1: say this as my sidebar, I found out Blockbuster Video.
Speaker 1: May they rest in peace. Um they brought me a
Speaker 1: lot of hours of my childhood, so I still respect him.
Speaker 1: But Blockbuster Video also had their own World Game Championship
Speaker 1: in the early nineties. It was co hosted by Game
Speaker 1: Pro magazine and actually not only was the US involved,
Speaker 1: but also citizens of Canada, the UK, Australia, and Chile
Speaker 1: were also eligible to compete. Also, one more thing about
Speaker 1: Red Annihilations tournament, which this is how I heard about it.
Speaker 1: In those tournaments, the winner received a Ferrari. But get this,
Speaker 1: the Ferrari was previously owned by John Carmack, the lead
Speaker 1: developer for Quakes, So how much money was quite bringing
Speaker 1: in that John? And it was a test erosive if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, it was pretty ball in Ferrari. On
Speaker 1: a separate sidebar, since we also talk about our personal
Speaker 1: experiences in here, I know several of my friends who
Speaker 1: now work for people that got big in cryptocurrency. And
Speaker 1: so a lot of those companies that they like host
Speaker 1: or do freelance for. It's like basically one you know
Speaker 1: dude that owns it or something that each of these
Speaker 1: studios is trying to pay them in cryptocurrency, which a
Speaker 1: part of me is like, yeah, I also want like
Speaker 1: several options. I would like several options to be paid
Speaker 1: in case one of these goes under. But yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I to really stay on the quake notion for a
Speaker 1: little bit. This was also kind of like the early
Speaker 1: beginnings of online multiplayer, just in a larger score. I
Speaker 1: remember heat dot net. It was one of the early
Speaker 1: leaders of online gaming, and I actually signed up for
Speaker 1: account right as it closed. Like I had the account,
Speaker 1: I convinced my dad to get some faster internet, and
Speaker 1: then I logged back in. It was like heat dot
Speaker 1: net is closing its doors. I was like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: this sucks. But then during the two thousand tens, e
Speaker 1: sports grew tremendously, incurring large increase in both viewership and
Speaker 1: prize money. Although large tournaments were founded before the twenty
Speaker 1: first century, the number and scope of tournaments has increased significantly,
Speaker 1: going from about ten tournaments in the year two thousand
Speaker 1: to about two hundred and sixty and two thousand ten.
Speaker 1: Many successful tournaments were founded during this period, including the
Speaker 1: World Cyber Games, Intel Extreme Masters in Major League Gaming,
Speaker 1: and the proliferation of the tournaments included experimentation with competitions
Speaker 1: outside traditional E sports genres. For example, in September of
Speaker 1: two thousand six, Fun Technologies Worldwide Web Games Championship featured
Speaker 1: seventy one contestants competing in casual games for a one
Speaker 1: million grand prize. So that was something for any one. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: that's what's so funny. Is it kind of crept up
Speaker 1: on you because it's always kind of been big in Korea,
Speaker 1: Like that was where it was with the StarCraft tournaments,
Speaker 1: and one knew it was big, but it just wasn't
Speaker 1: sticking out here in America for I mean, it was
Speaker 1: it was underground when we're talking about from the nights
Speaker 1: until about now. It was still pretty underground. It wasn't
Speaker 1: as large scale. So I was watching a documentary today
Speaker 1: on Netflix called All Work, All Play. It was filmed
Speaker 1: in about the sports. It was basically about the life
Speaker 1: and struggle of becoming a professional gamer and something that
Speaker 1: they had said often and it was like the lack
Speaker 1: of like respect for North American gamers, like they're just
Speaker 1: not considered on the same level, which that has changed
Speaker 1: since then, it's still a meme like Crash is a
Speaker 1: meme within League of Legends, and it's because you know,
Speaker 1: in a doesn't make it that far in these huge
Speaker 1: scale tournaments. It's usually dominated by UK and Europe, mostly
Speaker 1: Europe and Asia. But you know, we're we're we've maked,
Speaker 1: we've we're making strides. We're gonna get up there. Big
Speaker 1: in a teams are evil geniuses. That's uh, they're great
Speaker 1: in a team. Actually that's the only one I know
Speaker 1: that's giving genus. What I did want to say is
Speaker 1: the popularity, like if he was saying, has grown tremendously.
Speaker 1: So back in it was estimated that there were seventy
Speaker 1: one point five million people worldwide that watched e sports,
Speaker 1: so it really did jump up quite a bit. And
Speaker 1: that was also because of the increasing availability of media
Speaker 1: platforms like Twitch where people can now live stream them playing. Well.
Speaker 1: I think it's mostly because the difference now is people
Speaker 1: see this happening and no, it's available. It's always kind
Speaker 1: of been around, like one of the big tournaments used
Speaker 1: to be the cow Cali counter strike tournaments. And I've
Speaker 1: had friends who's competed in that, but that was beyond me.
Speaker 1: Like I remember, I remember in high school trying to
Speaker 1: put together a counter strike team. I never even had
Speaker 1: counter strike, but I made like a graphic and uh,
Speaker 1: are you like key club but you were trying to
Speaker 1: do it for counter strike like a school club. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I had no concept that was already like established leagues,
Speaker 1: that we're having counter strike tournaments that you can compete in.
Speaker 1: And I remember before we started recording, you were talking
Speaker 1: about like how tennis can be inaccessible because it's a
Speaker 1: very expensive tennis, gymnastics, figure skating. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: your parents have to have money in order for you
Speaker 1: to compete in those. And that's kind of how each
Speaker 1: sports was, especially the nineties era, because also you have
Speaker 1: to have a a PC that can run counter strike,
Speaker 1: which may not have been you know, this was before
Speaker 1: there was a computer in every household. This was when
Speaker 1: having a computer was like, oh okay, it was a luxury.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So to have a computer also strong enough
Speaker 1: to play counter strike that you can lug to a
Speaker 1: land center and have a land party, which a land
Speaker 1: party for those who don't know, is where you basically
Speaker 1: hook up a whole bunch of computers to one kind
Speaker 1: of server. So LAND stands for local area network, and
Speaker 1: it's a computer network that spans a relatively small area.
Speaker 1: So you create a network between all the computers, usually
Speaker 1: in the large room, and that way you can play
Speaker 1: counterstrike at a good broadband because playing online not that good.
Speaker 1: You know, this is like fifty k dsl D. So
Speaker 1: when you have these land partis, you're able to play
Speaker 1: almost as if it's well not almost as if, because
Speaker 1: you're side by side, all on the same network. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what I was going to say is that going back
Speaker 1: to how tremendously this popularity has grown, so it's expected
Speaker 1: to reach about five hundred million fans worldwide. By million.
Speaker 1: I can see that, Yeah, I mean I could see
Speaker 1: it too, But also like was you know, they said
Speaker 1: seventy one point five million and now it's like five
Speaker 1: million worldwide and that's thanks in part two Intel Extreme
Speaker 1: Masters i AM, which is the longest running global e
Speaker 1: sports tournament series. They mentioned that in the in the
Speaker 1: documentary as well, that there were ones that were before them,
Speaker 1: but they kind of dropped off. They didn't quite have
Speaker 1: the same platform and in structure and everything, and this
Speaker 1: is the longest running one. Yeah, Intel Extreme Masters is
Speaker 1: one of the best run because they were partnered by
Speaker 1: the e s L, which is the Electronics Sports League
Speaker 1: and uh really it launched into the year two thousand
Speaker 1: and it was a successor by the Dutch clan Liga,
Speaker 1: which was founded in so this is a law, so
Speaker 1: these people know what they're doing. And e s L
Speaker 1: is like e s L is the NFL four counter strike.
Speaker 1: If you're talking about counter strike tournaments, you're talking about
Speaker 1: the s L. But just like the NFL, they're running
Speaker 1: into some issues here and there, and we'll get into
Speaker 1: that a little later, but they're having issues with cheating,
Speaker 1: teams cheating and not having to span because it's blowing up. Basically,
Speaker 1: the scene is growing quicker than these companies anticipated. So
Speaker 1: it's now you can't really have officials at every one
Speaker 1: of the qualifying event. And when you can't have officials,
Speaker 1: remember I'm a big fan of Rainbow six Siege and
Speaker 1: they had their own invitational and a lot of the
Speaker 1: qualifier matches are done online with someone like they're not
Speaker 1: in person, like a lot of these major events, so
Speaker 1: people are cheating and you have to like turn in.
Speaker 1: It's almost like a report on like the activity that
Speaker 1: your computer was doing. But those can be falsified. And
Speaker 1: so there was lots of accusations or as we call
Speaker 1: them in the gaming industry, hack usations of people hacking,
Speaker 1: and some of the evidence looks good, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard for them to be able to pinpoint every
Speaker 1: single one because it's growing faster and it's hard to
Speaker 1: watch so many different games. Yeah, we'll definitely get into
Speaker 1: the ethics of e sports here and dive into that
Speaker 1: a little bit more. What I did want to say
Speaker 1: is back to you comparing it to the NFL. With
Speaker 1: these companies, a lot of them sought to create leagues
Speaker 1: that followed essentially North American professional sports, so in which
Speaker 1: all the teams participate in a regular season of matches,
Speaker 1: just like the NFL and MLB and all the other
Speaker 1: ones that I can throw out there. Oh yeah, that's
Speaker 1: completely why the s L eventually created Eligue. But I'll
Speaker 1: wait for Molique to be here to talk about that
Speaker 1: because he's very well versed in it. If I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: he kind of was a part of it in a
Speaker 1: small way, arn't big way. I did want to say
Speaker 1: in that the All Work, All Play documentary when they
Speaker 1: were talking about League of Legends, they said, sixty seven
Speaker 1: million players play this game every month. Fifty players in
Speaker 1: North America actually play at a pro level. And this
Speaker 1: is in quotes. Just like it's very hard to get
Speaker 1: into NFL or Major League Baseball, it's just as hard
Speaker 1: to get into League of Legends. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: going back to league, So Maligue is a commentator for
Speaker 1: one of the biggest leagues, which is the Overwatch League. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because Blizzard Entertainment announced the Overwatch League based on the
Speaker 1: game Overwatch in two thousand sixteen, with its inaugural regular
Speaker 1: season featuring twelve teams starting in January two eighteen, and
Speaker 1: players got contracts to play on teams that are guaranteed
Speaker 1: an annual salary and benefits, as well as sharing the
Speaker 1: team's revenue and prize winnings. And the reason that's very
Speaker 1: important is because kind of the the structure before it
Speaker 1: was kind of iffy. You never knew what could happen if, like,
Speaker 1: especially right now in the e s L, you have
Speaker 1: teams cutting players right before the big matches and cutting
Speaker 1: them in a way so that another team can't pick
Speaker 1: them up, because just like just like other sports, their
Speaker 1: trade blocks and there's like trade deadlines. So what they'll
Speaker 1: do is they'll keep a player they know they're going
Speaker 1: to drop on until the deadlines over so that other
Speaker 1: teams can't pick them up and use that player against them.
Speaker 1: But if you look at how it affects the player
Speaker 1: players out of mound, Yeah, and not only that, we're
Speaker 1: talking about young people here, So a lot of these
Speaker 1: people are ones that have dropped out of college. They've
Speaker 1: dropped out of school to pursue professional e sports and
Speaker 1: now they're at a level where they are getting paid professionally,
Speaker 1: but they don't necessarily always have a black up plan.
Speaker 1: And so when you do something as shady as this
Speaker 1: as cutting them, and then now they don't Now they're
Speaker 1: out of money, and now they are also banned. Like
Speaker 1: if you said where they can't get onto another team,
Speaker 1: we kind of screwed them over. Yeah, they have to
Speaker 1: wait till the next season pretty much. And you bring
Speaker 1: up a good point where like a lot of these
Speaker 1: kids aren't necessarily going to college. There there's no backup
Speaker 1: plan and has it stands so far kind of because
Speaker 1: we all know if you play football or basketball, you
Speaker 1: play for as long as you can, but if you
Speaker 1: get dropped, you have to find something to do, or
Speaker 1: if you last long enough, you become a coach. It's
Speaker 1: very similar in E sports. There's coaches in the sports,
Speaker 1: and a lot of these coaches are ex E sports players,
Speaker 1: and your other options is either being commentators or trying
Speaker 1: to make a living on Twitch streaming. But a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know, the big dogs on Twitch are
Speaker 1: the ones who are still playing, right right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's just important to understand that these are
Speaker 1: young people. They also deal with the pressure. I think
Speaker 1: that is something that they're not always used to as
Speaker 1: far as you know, as reading interviews with them and
Speaker 1: some of their parents and stuff, that these are kids,
Speaker 1: some of them have dropped out of college in order
Speaker 1: to pursue this full time, and then they get cut,
Speaker 1: or they lose a match, or they lose a tournament,
Speaker 1: and it's like the amount of online harassment that they
Speaker 1: deal with that I think all of us are like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that's what you signed up for. I mean, that's not
Speaker 1: how I feel, but that's what people say to me
Speaker 1: about the career that I chose, is like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's what you signed up for. You're gonna be a
Speaker 1: public figure. You're gonna get this. And I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 1: But one, they're young, so I don't think that they're
Speaker 1: always necessarily prepared for the amount of online harassment or
Speaker 1: and it's just relentless. I mean, I feel like that's uh,
Speaker 1: something else that we can get into. But what I
Speaker 1: did want to say is that there are universities that
Speaker 1: encourage and have e sports programs. So um. According to
Speaker 1: scholarships dot Com, there are more than thirty u S
Speaker 1: colleges and universities that offer scholarships for gamers, and I
Speaker 1: guess the University of Utah is one of the largest
Speaker 1: ones to offer scholarships for video gaming. UM. I was
Speaker 1: watching an interview that they did that was talking about
Speaker 1: just like the important that I'm glad that a lot
Speaker 1: of these universities understand where technology is going and they're
Speaker 1: trying to also incorporate that, and mainly they also want
Speaker 1: to encourage like, yeah, if you want to continue academics,
Speaker 1: if you want to continue going to college, but you
Speaker 1: also want to be a part of this esports program.
Speaker 1: You can do both so you don't have to sacrifice it,
Speaker 1: and you can get your school paid for exactly. Now,
Speaker 1: that's that. I think that's a great plan. What I
Speaker 1: didn't want to say is so the University of Utah
Speaker 1: currently offers players partial video game scholarships, but with the
Speaker 1: plan their future goal of offering full video game scholarships
Speaker 1: to its gaming team. Oh yeah, but it's it's good,
Speaker 1: but it's tricky for me because I feel like the
Speaker 1: median age for most professional gamers is within the sixth range.
Speaker 1: Except for Overwatch lea, I believe you have to be
Speaker 1: over eighteen be a part of that league. But yeah,
Speaker 1: because the median age is so young, it's hard to
Speaker 1: really kind of capitalize off of, you know, a structure
Speaker 1: similar to most sports, where you know, you go through college.
Speaker 1: Most most players get the first two years, then they
Speaker 1: jump out, or sometimes they'll get the full four years.
Speaker 1: But with this one, it's I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 1: I don't know if with the because also the reason
Speaker 1: the media age is so young is because this is
Speaker 1: those are the ones who are playing right now, and
Speaker 1: I feel like this our generation at least, really, like
Speaker 1: I said before, you weren't able to even compete in
Speaker 1: the sports because your parents are like, what are you
Speaker 1: doing on those games? What are you doing? So I'm
Speaker 1: curious to see if the media age for professional level
Speaker 1: players rises a bit now that there's a bit of
Speaker 1: understanding that there is a little bit of worth to
Speaker 1: having your child play and get better at video games.
Speaker 1: Um Ray Lee, who I who works at Twitch. We
Speaker 1: were hanging out what I did my episode of Fresh Stock,
Speaker 1: and he was talking about how he went to I
Speaker 1: want to say it was Singapore or something, and they're
Speaker 1: at the cyber cafe and his mom was trying to
Speaker 1: get Ray. Uh. This kid's mom was trying to get
Speaker 1: Ray to talk some sense to his kid to get
Speaker 1: him to stop playing video games. And Ray had to
Speaker 1: be like, I just want you to know he's really good,
Speaker 1: because I guess the kid was really good and he
Speaker 1: could possibly be a professional player. So I want you
Speaker 1: to know before you asked me to do this, if
Speaker 1: you really feel like you know you this is unsustainable.
Speaker 1: If he's doing bad at school or something, I can
Speaker 1: talk to him, but I want you to know that
Speaker 1: there is a benefit to this that if you allow
Speaker 1: him a certain block of time to practice. This could
Speaker 1: really pay off. And I think it is that thing
Speaker 1: where it's like meet in the middle, because I understand
Speaker 1: a parent not wanting a kid just saying forget school
Speaker 1: and do this. But there, But just like any other sport,
Speaker 1: I do think there might be some benefit to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you want to do this, you want to be good
Speaker 1: at this, or you get to play it for two
Speaker 1: or three hours after school, just this game, no other games,
Speaker 1: you know, like really treated like a sport. This is practice.
Speaker 1: I'll check in on you. No farting around. You've got
Speaker 1: to be playing competitive, high level. But it also takes
Speaker 1: an understanding of that game, you know, because because people
Speaker 1: understand football and basketball in a general sense, like even
Speaker 1: if you've never really followed the NFL or the NBA,
Speaker 1: you get the idea of the game. So like the
Speaker 1: concept of someone practicing it, you can tell where it's
Speaker 1: like video games. You're like, okay, Like there's a difference
Speaker 1: between playing at a competitive level and then casually just around. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I hear you. I am. I want to have kids
Speaker 1: just to put them into the sports. My brother actually
Speaker 1: he was a This is it's also possibly another alternative
Speaker 1: to sports like too. So my brother was a a
Speaker 1: football player growing up. He was in the Dallas Morning News,
Speaker 1: like he was m v p UM at his high
Speaker 1: school and it was a big thing. And I talked
Speaker 1: to him recently. He was like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: put my son in football. That's a different topic for
Speaker 1: but he was like, I'm not going to uh And
Speaker 1: I was like, what, you were so good and you
Speaker 1: were respected, and he was like, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: Getting into ethics, I did want to, uh talk about
Speaker 1: how there have been reports actually pretty publicly of players
Speaker 1: using stimulants like riddling and adderall and things to significantly
Speaker 1: boost their boost their concentration. Also, some players will take propanol,
Speaker 1: which blocks effects of adrenaline, or valium, which is prescribed
Speaker 1: to treat anxiety, in order to remain calm under pressure.
Speaker 1: So in July, Corey Freezing and ex Cloud nine player,
Speaker 1: admitted that he and his teammates were all using adderall
Speaker 1: during a match against Vitrus. Yeah. Yeah, they just openly
Speaker 1: And I guess maybe you can because I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's actually regulated. I mean they're not like they're
Speaker 1: not checking, they're not doing blood tests before this, and
Speaker 1: I think because no one's really done anything like this,
Speaker 1: And I don't mean East sports in general, I just
Speaker 1: mean using riddling as it because there is the question
Speaker 1: of is it does it give you an edge or
Speaker 1: it might just be like a blanket almost Olympic statement
Speaker 1: where it's like you can't do it at all. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, so there is some issues with that. But
Speaker 1: speaking of the Olympics, you know they've been looking for
Speaker 1: Olympic game recognition. But actually we'll get into it after
Speaker 1: the break. Right, we're back again. We're here with my man,
Speaker 1: Malik Forte, freelance e sports dude and music producer. Man.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Man, Yeah, no, we when we
Speaker 1: knew we were talking about the sports, it was right
Speaker 1: there we got my first person. I thought of, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you've you've been in this industry for a while. I
Speaker 1: feel like now, yeah, I mean I've been in gaming
Speaker 1: just period, right for a while. Actually getting back into
Speaker 1: E sports has been kind of about a year or
Speaker 1: two because I was out of the sports for a
Speaker 1: good minute just doing like traditional game journalism and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And this is kind of like my foray
Speaker 1: back in Man. Yeah, and you've been killing it and
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into Like before the break, I would say,
Speaker 1: we were talking about the Olympics games, recognition of the sports.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into that in a second. I got
Speaker 1: ma laite questions. I want to let's talk about you
Speaker 1: got it on your shirt right now. It's something that's
Speaker 1: always interested me. I've known about it as long as
Speaker 1: I've known you, but I've never truly formally asked about
Speaker 1: what is Crew ham Crew Hammings is a group of
Speaker 1: my friends. To be honest, Uh, we kind of got
Speaker 1: a little underground community that's just centered around like gamers
Speaker 1: who like hip hop. Oh yeah, so it's kind of
Speaker 1: like an emerging of just like the urban type of nerd.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and yeah, I mean, to be honest, like
Speaker 1: the cool thing about Crew hamm is this is like
Speaker 1: it's mad underground. So like, yeah, we ain't all about
Speaker 1: the like social media stuff, not like the rest of us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody does it individually, but as far as
Speaker 1: crewham goes, like, we just keep that underrest. Like there
Speaker 1: are a lot of pintil now now it's out now,
Speaker 1: I mean lasted it on this podcast. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a lot of members of Crew and who are out there.
Speaker 1: You might not know. It's like the Illuminati. Yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: much everybody's like works in the game industry or something
Speaker 1: like that, or the music industry and kind of goes
Speaker 1: in between. Both has their hands in different areas. There's
Speaker 1: a member who works for Capital Records and so he's
Speaker 1: always doing stuff with like little Yati and got that
Speaker 1: guy on the Twitch streaming, so so that guy has
Speaker 1: been like trying to do that, and you know there's
Speaker 1: been a big, like I guess a phenomenon with Twitch
Speaker 1: and hip hop kind of. Yeah, let's talk about this Ninja.
Speaker 1: You know, the boy was salty because I was like, like,
Speaker 1: I get why it was Ninja, but it should have
Speaker 1: been one of us, by one of us, I mean
Speaker 1: me or you know, there were people who said that
Speaker 1: to me and I was like, no, this is good, bro, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Ninja somebody I actually, you know, have come
Speaker 1: across before. Um just in the old m l G days.
Speaker 1: He was one of those people who played Halo really
Speaker 1: get at that game. And uh, I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: lucrative back then to be a program. It just wasn't.
Speaker 1: And uh so it's kind of cool to see him
Speaker 1: get this type of recognition now, because it's like I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes the journey into the sports for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, it seemed like it made have been
Speaker 1: for nothing. You know, like you you put all your
Speaker 1: passion into this competing, into helping to grow this scene,
Speaker 1: but like at the end of the day just was
Speaker 1: not lucrative and like you ended up in very precarious
Speaker 1: situations in your life because you decided to see this
Speaker 1: thing full time. And so Ninja was one of those people.
Speaker 1: You know, he had a wife, you had people to feed.
Speaker 1: So to see him getting this type of success, to me,
Speaker 1: it's it's been awesome. That's super dope too. But also
Speaker 1: it brings up a good point because you know, e
Speaker 1: sports now, I feel like it's a young man's game,
Speaker 1: but there's so many old heads who used to be
Speaker 1: in the sports. So what must that be like to
Speaker 1: see now all these young dudes getting money and some
Speaker 1: old dudes who had to just leave it in the
Speaker 1: dusk because there was no money. Yeah, it's it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's cool because like I fel like, there's a good
Speaker 1: amount of these guys who appreciate it and they appreciate
Speaker 1: the fact that there were others who kind of took
Speaker 1: the fall in a sense in order for them to
Speaker 1: be in this position. At the same time, Uh, it
Speaker 1: could be frustrating when there are people who don't appreciate it,
Speaker 1: who feel like they are entitled and I mean entitled men,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it goes with like a
Speaker 1: good portion of like the game community, the community, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of entitled people out. Yeah, I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you about the community as far as um.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the balance between it being like
Speaker 1: a nurturing community but also dealing with, like you said,
Speaker 1: entitlement or online harassment. And again we're dealing with people
Speaker 1: that are super young having to deal with this and
Speaker 1: getting money and coming up so quickly. I mean, what
Speaker 1: are what have you experienced or seeing now that you
Speaker 1: are so heavily part of it. Oh man, I don't
Speaker 1: seen all types of stuff, you know. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a situation recently where UH met a kid I won't
Speaker 1: say his name, but I met him over the summer
Speaker 1: during a tournament we were doing called the Overwatch World Cup.
Speaker 1: Very nice kid, probably one of the most humble kids
Speaker 1: I had met. So after that, I hadn't seen him.
Speaker 1: I know that the Overwatch World Cup got a lot
Speaker 1: of eyes on him and a lot of other people,
Speaker 1: so he got way more popular. Time went on, and
Speaker 1: then you got a twitch dream that was popping off,
Speaker 1: super popular, and I don't think he had anybody in
Speaker 1: his corner to kind of like let him, yeah, like
Speaker 1: somebody let him know, like yo, like be careful with
Speaker 1: his fame, be careful with the popularity and you know,
Speaker 1: the community, like don't let it make you, you know,
Speaker 1: make sure you're in control of that. Now. I feel
Speaker 1: like you might not have anyone there tell him that.
Speaker 1: So he's been running into some issues. It's been just
Speaker 1: a lot of controversy around for that reason. And I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, I hate to see that happen to people.
Speaker 1: I feel like you just gotta be careful because I
Speaker 1: feel like the culture itself, it's very unpoliced and very
Speaker 1: there's no there's not many guardians, it's not many thought leaders. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who are just out there
Speaker 1: to make things happy and get attention and stuff. And
Speaker 1: so for that reason, there's just a lot of it
Speaker 1: can be a lot of toxicity. Right. I also feel
Speaker 1: like it's like you were saying it's these young people
Speaker 1: that they suddenly start coming up and now they're partnered
Speaker 1: with companies and all of a sudden, it's like, now
Speaker 1: you have to watch what you say online. Um, we
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about how some people will quit college,
Speaker 1: which you know, I have mixed feelings about him. I
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times that's over overrated at
Speaker 1: times as someone that has a college degree and doesn't
Speaker 1: use it like most of the world. But they quit
Speaker 1: college to join some of these teams and they get
Speaker 1: dropped from the team, and then they don't always have
Speaker 1: a backup plan. So I think a lot of times
Speaker 1: when people hear about professional gamers, they think of it
Speaker 1: on this huge level and not like, oh no, these
Speaker 1: are actually young people who are still struggling to find
Speaker 1: their place in the community. Yes, and then they're they're
Speaker 1: at that age where the influences are going to matter
Speaker 1: the most, you know, so there needs to be more
Speaker 1: people who are stepping in and making sure these guys
Speaker 1: don't get too lost. But a lot of people, you know,
Speaker 1: you can't really if somebody is getting so much attention
Speaker 1: and they're seeing just like a type of success that
Speaker 1: they've never seen before. You can't tell them what to do.
Speaker 1: I remember somebody said that type of stuff about like Tupac,
Speaker 1: like he's in his moment. You can't tell somebody like
Speaker 1: that what to do. And it's the same. The same
Speaker 1: goes for like a lot of these younger guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like Kanye says, like, wait to get my
Speaker 1: money right, you can't tell me nothing, And it's true
Speaker 1: for better Yeah, look, it's it's one of the top ten.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be. Don't worry. We'll go on the air
Speaker 1: very mad about it. I don't know who did that,
Speaker 1: but basically, yeah, when you have when you're getting success,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to steer someone from a course
Speaker 1: because they they're like, this is working for me. But
Speaker 1: what people don't understand is when eyes are on you,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a wave. They build you
Speaker 1: up just to knock you down. Yeah, I feel like that.
Speaker 1: I feel we see that a lot in the community.
Speaker 1: But that's what I have is set in some of
Speaker 1: those the sports community that it feels like when someone
Speaker 1: does come up, it's like, oh, one of us made it,
Speaker 1: and let's tear them down just to kind of put
Speaker 1: an ending to that whole conversation. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: a huge part of it is that the sports is
Speaker 1: still kind of new, so there there haven't been many
Speaker 1: people who've reached that level to say I've had that
Speaker 1: experience to speak to the younger guys like what you had, fatality,
Speaker 1: he was like the first ever millionaire program. Remember, But
Speaker 1: I mean that dude took a route that like I
Speaker 1: don't know if many people are gonna be able to take,
Speaker 1: which is like he invested a lot, he had his
Speaker 1: own business and things of that nature. So he was
Speaker 1: really the first to kind of start doing that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's tough when it's so new. The scene is so new,
Speaker 1: and uh, I think we'll see a difference as time progress,
Speaker 1: isn't I didn't want to ask you real quick on
Speaker 1: the topic that we had talked about as far as
Speaker 1: like performance enhancing, since it's not as heavily regulated, do
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on that as far as like
Speaker 1: players taking I mean pretty publicly actually some players said
Speaker 1: openly that they take adderall and riddle in and things
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I mean to think about those particular things,
Speaker 1: is like some of those dudes take those drugs as
Speaker 1: part of their like everyday life, so they would take it,
Speaker 1: so they would take it regardless, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know if some some people say like it
Speaker 1: helps them with their gaming, but maybe it just helps
Speaker 1: them function as human beings. Yeah. Yeah, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: For me, it's kind of hard to to like wait
Speaker 1: on that because I think if you're taking it just
Speaker 1: for that one reason, like I just wanted to increase
Speaker 1: my game, it's kind of cheesy, like like, okay, so
Speaker 1: you're you're admitting you want to give yourself an advantage.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I know a lot of people actually
Speaker 1: meet those things just to function here. So it would
Speaker 1: be hard to regulate, right, It wouldn't be hard to regulate, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they are lot of legal drugs. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's like players are turning your prescriptions. We have to
Speaker 1: make sure you can be good. But I wonder if
Speaker 1: that's going to change now that going back to us
Speaker 1: talking about the Olympics, yea, yeah, because I feel like
Speaker 1: it would have to be regulated at some point as
Speaker 1: far as the sports put machine towards being recognized through
Speaker 1: the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. And so speaking of the Olympics,
Speaker 1: so we already talked about the Intel Extreme Masters and
Speaker 1: just how that the strength of that that whole tournament.
Speaker 1: So it seems like during the Winter Games they went
Speaker 1: ahead and did a peong Chang tournament. The International Olympic
Speaker 1: Committee used it as a tryout to see the possibility
Speaker 1: of it being an Olympic game. What do you think
Speaker 1: about that, my league? I know my thoughts, but I'm
Speaker 1: curious about yours. I mean, I think that's pretty cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's cool. Yeah, I mean yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like we're gonna hit a point really soon where the
Speaker 1: discussion of like what games need to be Olympics comes up.
Speaker 1: And when we have that discussion, that's I feel like
Speaker 1: that's going to be like an interesting one because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of video games that I don't think necessarily
Speaker 1: would fit in that category something they do. But right now,
Speaker 1: I think it's cool for everyone to just have that
Speaker 1: discussion around their games period. Well yeah, and this actually
Speaker 1: lobs up into the next thing we're going to talk about,
Speaker 1: which is like how games are being built free sports.
Speaker 1: But just to stay on the Olympics a quick second,
Speaker 1: I feel like that is an important conversation. What do
Speaker 1: you think would be your three games if you had
Speaker 1: to pick right now, I know my three. I'll let
Speaker 1: you know my three after you say yours. Street Fighter.
Speaker 1: I feel like that would probably be the top because
Speaker 1: it's I mean, EVO already feels like an Olympic event
Speaker 1: when you go there. Uh, people are already rapping their countries.
Speaker 1: You still get the US a chance and the crowd
Speaker 1: things of that nature. So that's cool. Um, the next game,
Speaker 1: I would say, and I'm not just saying this because
Speaker 1: I work on the game, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people would agree with you. Yeah, I think Overwatch definitely
Speaker 1: see the World Cup and how how yeah passionate, the
Speaker 1: fans are so passionate and yeah, oh yeah, and when
Speaker 1: you put all the players together on each team is
Speaker 1: it's it's it's cool. And the World Cup last year
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if you guys got a
Speaker 1: chance to come. Hopefully you can give me tickets this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you want to come, let me know. The reno
Speaker 1: was was packed to the Soundclip League. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: in your third game, my third game, that's tough. I'd
Speaker 1: probably go with I want to say Smash. I want
Speaker 1: to say Smash like Smatch, but no, I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: a wild card in there and say Rocket League. No,
Speaker 1: that's actually Rocket League has been very entertaining to watch
Speaker 1: the I think that would be a cool Olympic, so
Speaker 1: I also overwatched was on my list as well, and
Speaker 1: it definitely would be street Fighter because I feel like
Speaker 1: street Fighter is and I know some people in the
Speaker 1: fighting game community gonna be real salty about this, but
Speaker 1: it is I feel like the top like fighting game
Speaker 1: that anyone can watch and get a general understand because
Speaker 1: because everyone knows, like how dukins all that stuff, Like,
Speaker 1: you can show anyone right that old school uh Diego
Speaker 1: blocking the the chun Ley kicks, and everyone's hype that
Speaker 1: that is so understandable. You don't have to have known
Speaker 1: about the Perry system. You know. What he did was tight.
Speaker 1: I saw it just was on the top of Reddit
Speaker 1: gaming and people were like, what happened? This is tight?
Speaker 1: What happened? And I feel like that's why I feel
Speaker 1: like street Fighter. Now the next fight would be which version?
Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll leave that up. I mean because yet
Speaker 1: Third Strike was kind of yeah different, yeah, but my
Speaker 1: third I think I would go ahead and give that
Speaker 1: to League. The only issue with that is the huge
Speaker 1: fight between like doodle or League, but I feel like
Speaker 1: a MOBI is You're like, I'm trying to think of
Speaker 1: the comparable Olympic sport where it's like not everyone understands it,
Speaker 1: but there is like a sports thinking level to it
Speaker 1: with the lanes and every like having the top down
Speaker 1: view helps. Yea, it reminds you almost of a football
Speaker 1: game exactly, and that's why I'm like, I feel like
Speaker 1: that's the best translate. But the one I liked about
Speaker 1: the ones you chose is I feel like on a
Speaker 1: global level it's pretty balanced, but I feel like mobi's
Speaker 1: it's still Europe in Asia they got those locked would
Speaker 1: be uphill battle for us and is having a rough time.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, evil, but yeah, let's h How E sports
Speaker 1: is influencing games has been blown my mind because now
Speaker 1: we're starting to have games built around the sports. The
Speaker 1: first game I have written down here is Quake Champions,
Speaker 1: Like that was built in mind with the sports last
Speaker 1: year at H I believe it was twitch con they
Speaker 1: paid to have a Quake Champions tournament running the whole
Speaker 1: time just to get other streamers interested. And on one hand,
Speaker 1: it's like, man, I really mess with that because you
Speaker 1: guys are like the O G Triple O G of
Speaker 1: E sports. I'd understand why you want to build that.
Speaker 1: Next hand, I just don't think it's sustainable to build
Speaker 1: your game around E sports because you're just betting on
Speaker 1: so many factors that you can't depend on that you
Speaker 1: should not build a game for E sports. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: make a good game first, Yeah, that's just go for that.
Speaker 1: You know, that should always be the goal, and then
Speaker 1: everything else will fall in line. Now, I guess when
Speaker 1: it comes balancing and stuff, that's a whole different conversation
Speaker 1: because when you do have a game, like I wonder
Speaker 1: how the guys over a Blizzard feel because they're making
Speaker 1: this game and they're trying to make it accessible to everybody.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like they do have a league, yes,
Speaker 1: and so they do have certain things that they have
Speaker 1: to make sure not only not only do you have
Speaker 1: a league, but you have all these sports arenas that
Speaker 1: are popping up, Like you have actual people who who
Speaker 1: not not just the actual players, but so many people
Speaker 1: that rely on this as far as like income that
Speaker 1: I feel it spans out to more than just the
Speaker 1: league itself, where I I understand them wanting to make
Speaker 1: sure that it can be marketed. You know that it
Speaker 1: will be important in the sports community. But I also
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying about just make a good game. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that should always be the main goal, because we've seen
Speaker 1: that format fail so many times where somebody's like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make an E sport. This is my first goal.
Speaker 1: I'm going out and making this an E sport and
Speaker 1: its failed. It's just maybe, is how you would feel
Speaker 1: to about people just wanting to be professional in general
Speaker 1: and the sports Like, I mean, I don't know why
Speaker 1: I was reading different interviews were actually professional E sports
Speaker 1: players were like, don't try to go for this because
Speaker 1: the idea of you making it is so small, Like
Speaker 1: you were saying, yeah, like play too, because you're passionate.
Speaker 1: Play because you truly want to be the best, and
Speaker 1: because you truly want to get better and see how
Speaker 1: that pans out. You know, like instead of like banking
Speaker 1: on making it maybe yeah, or banking on making it
Speaker 1: or just trying to follow follow someone else's path, I
Speaker 1: think that's just a life lesson everyone. There's people who
Speaker 1: want to get to certain places, but they like try
Speaker 1: to follow other people's paths and like I understand being
Speaker 1: inspired and taking inspiration, but like you gotta you gotta
Speaker 1: do your own thing when it's all setting done, And
Speaker 1: at the same thing goes for players, you know. That's
Speaker 1: like there's a while there's a lot of people and Overwatch,
Speaker 1: like in the league now who are coming in that
Speaker 1: I appreciate because like they you can tell that they
Speaker 1: have their own play style. They don't inspire to be
Speaker 1: anyone but themselves, and like they're probably had people they
Speaker 1: look up to or other people who they can borrow
Speaker 1: some elements from, but they still incorporate everything and make
Speaker 1: it their own. Because you if you follow your own way,
Speaker 1: that can be the new way. Like who's that boxer
Speaker 1: who just has no real technical skill? He fights like
Speaker 1: he's you know what I'm talking about, because you posted
Speaker 1: the link of him getting that knockout, Yeah Wilder, Like
Speaker 1: if you watch him, you're like, what, but it works.
Speaker 1: He swings and knocks people out. It looks like back
Speaker 1: in the hood went like that's how he fights, and
Speaker 1: that's like what I love about it. But also because
Speaker 1: it works. If he was can you imagine if he
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with making sure he had the form
Speaker 1: down that he didn't do what worked for him. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, well he says in every interview like it's
Speaker 1: not about skill, it's about heart. When it's all said
Speaker 1: and he walks in with this bravado that you don't
Speaker 1: see for any other boxers, it almost it is Ali
Speaker 1: esque because it's just like he just knows he's gonna
Speaker 1: go in there, even if he's gonna get hit. He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm walking out of that ring. Yeah for my daughter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's what's up. But we can't talk about the
Speaker 1: sports influencing game without bringing up Player Unknown Battlegrounds. That game.
Speaker 1: I I've never had a game that I love so
Speaker 1: much but have so many complaints about it, because you
Speaker 1: can just feel the moment when they felt the money
Speaker 1: from East Sports and kind of just didn't care that
Speaker 1: much about polishing, Like that's that's how it felt for me.
Speaker 1: It felt like the moment we started already just giving
Speaker 1: the money for E Sports, just doing tournaments back to back,
Speaker 1: what incentive did they have to really polish the game
Speaker 1: and really hit all the promises that they said they
Speaker 1: would do. Yeah, I mean that there goes the proof
Speaker 1: in the pudding right there. You know, like if you again,
Speaker 1: if you make a game and you're aiming to make
Speaker 1: an e sport, yeah, you're going to run into problems
Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah. It kind of sucks, you know, because,
Speaker 1: like I like to see any of the developers win,
Speaker 1: and the fact that they weren't triple they might have been,
Speaker 1: I mean one of the reasons why right now they're
Speaker 1: kind of like losing that battle and kind of losing
Speaker 1: identity and whatnot. But yeah, I mean to support your game,
Speaker 1: you know, like just support your game. Yeah, exactly, because
Speaker 1: if you look at you know, it's biggest competitive which
Speaker 1: I will admit is winning me over a bit Fortnite. Like,
Speaker 1: they weren't interested in the battle reale was just a
Speaker 1: fun thing. They just was a side thing that was like,
Speaker 1: all right, people like this, We'll just do this for fun.
Speaker 1: And then it just blew up and they're polishing it.
Speaker 1: There never once did they go all right, well, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you like it. They're still tweaking it and polishing
Speaker 1: in the number of people playing it, and they're like hmm,
Speaker 1: because at first there weren't even any micro transaction to anything,
Speaker 1: you know, but then they start seeing like so many
Speaker 1: people download it and they're like, we gotta make this
Speaker 1: money back. Yeah, and then they got the battle Pass going,
Speaker 1: which it's a pretty good deal. Like I like the
Speaker 1: Battle Pass aspect. I like that they still playing for
Speaker 1: an unlock system. Yeah, pretty much. And then there's and
Speaker 1: they're like, also, we'll still give you some free stuff
Speaker 1: if you don't pay for it. Like that, because a
Speaker 1: lot of people wonder what the sweet spot is for gamers,
Speaker 1: and this will be fun to talk about because we
Speaker 1: all remember what happened with Battlefront to you know, we
Speaker 1: all and pretty much, and I want to know if
Speaker 1: you agree with it. Here's what I think. If you
Speaker 1: charge someone full price for a game, give them their game,
Speaker 1: But if you're charging them for free, people will be
Speaker 1: willing to spend money if it's a good game, and
Speaker 1: if you still have an aspect of it that's available
Speaker 1: for free. So like the fact that they're like, you
Speaker 1: can do the Battle Pass and you'll get all these
Speaker 1: like cosmetics, but you can get free cosmetics as well.
Speaker 1: People like, Okay, I'll chip in a couple bucks. It's
Speaker 1: a hell mary that a lot of game developers probably
Speaker 1: won't throw because you know, if they're under a Triple
Speaker 1: A publisher like EA or something. That's not going to
Speaker 1: be the case, but it's it's worth I feel like
Speaker 1: it's worth it, you know, for if you have a
Speaker 1: good game, if you have something you know the different,
Speaker 1: you know, like again you said at Fortnite that was
Speaker 1: an accident. You know, they didn't they stumbled upon that,
Speaker 1: but people everywhere knew that, like the Battle Royale genre
Speaker 1: was getting ready to grow, like even h one z one,
Speaker 1: and it's hey, they people were already seeing it. And
Speaker 1: then pub Je was like, let's capitalize on that. And
Speaker 1: then Epic, a Triple A developer who you know, Gears
Speaker 1: of War, they got playing games over there, but they're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna, we're gonna hop on this. Everybody runs their
Speaker 1: game on our engine anyway. That's that was the funny thing.
Speaker 1: Pub runs on the road. So it's like, come on, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel I'm happy for Epic though, oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: glad to see them winning. Well. I feel like Epic
Speaker 1: is one of those very few still existing like wholesome
Speaker 1: Triple A developers, like you know, like they not only
Speaker 1: put out good games like Years and all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but they put out so many free games too, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, you got Fortnite that's free, Paragon that's for free.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's like, man, I want to support
Speaker 1: you because you're just like games for people. It's a
Speaker 1: smarter model for a good multiplayer game. Even Overwatch shows like,
Speaker 1: I mean, they charged people for that game, but they
Speaker 1: showed over time that like people, if they're invested in
Speaker 1: the game, they'll come back, they'll buy stuff. So I
Speaker 1: feel like, if you're a multiplayer game, take notes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's talk a little bit about your e sports history.
Speaker 1: So you said you used to play the shooters back
Speaker 1: in the day, right, Rainbow, way back in the day.
Speaker 1: I still got the sounds of the slot machines and
Speaker 1: Calypso casino ringing in my head day and it's all good.
Speaker 1: That game was great. It was just an I played
Speaker 1: in the time when like the tournaments were scarce. It
Speaker 1: was pretty much they're amateur tournaments were online. So you
Speaker 1: found a lot of those, Like there was one called
Speaker 1: g g L Global Gaming League and stuff, and they're
Speaker 1: all online tournaments and you'd make like a max like
Speaker 1: uh like nine bucks winning a tournament online or something
Speaker 1: like that. And then there's MLG and the MLG had
Speaker 1: Rainbow six for I don't know how many circuits, it
Speaker 1: was several, it was a couple of years. It was
Speaker 1: like the game that came before Years of War, you know,
Speaker 1: so it was like at the bottom, but oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was fun. Like my time there was very short.
Speaker 1: I developed like a bad reputation because I was a
Speaker 1: big crap talker, just a competitive spirit. I guess I
Speaker 1: was one of those types. And then uh, I stopped
Speaker 1: and kind of went in and transitioned into like game
Speaker 1: journalism because I was like people were watching because of
Speaker 1: my rainbow sick antics and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's just talk about all games. And then I kind
Speaker 1: of my way into this game journalism. So how did
Speaker 1: you get to doing commentary then in like on error
Speaker 1: and on camera stuff, well from being behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, like one was like I would go to
Speaker 1: fighting game tournaments and do commentary because like it's very
Speaker 1: loose there, so like you can just sit down and
Speaker 1: do commentary sometimes, like anybody can if you just volunteer,
Speaker 1: if you go to the right fighting game event. So
Speaker 1: that's that they're just giving the mic to anybody. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a community, so you are right, if they see
Speaker 1: you around there, cool, if you jumping on Mike, you know,
Speaker 1: because they know you understand the atmosphere and you can
Speaker 1: frame the story of what's going on and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Also the nervous thing. So when you're working under Chris
Speaker 1: Hardwick and you're working with Jessica Chobat, you get thrown
Speaker 1: into a lot of hosting situations and you start to
Speaker 1: learn about that. So that it was kind of a
Speaker 1: melting of those two things. Like I had done the
Speaker 1: commentary before I was hosting, already had relationships with people
Speaker 1: from like being in the game journalism. Some people knew
Speaker 1: me from back in the rainmost six days, it was
Speaker 1: just like kind of all those factors working at once,
Speaker 1: and then I landed into some sports. Yeah alright, well
Speaker 1: we'll jump into your Overwatch league stuff right after this break,
Speaker 1: all right, and we're back. We're here with the league
Speaker 1: four day, just all around the sports dude, rapper, the exapper.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah no, but yeah, so how did the
Speaker 1: whole Overwatch League thing happened? Because I'm gonna let you
Speaker 1: know how I saw it from my lens. Ok, you
Speaker 1: can do because you weren't doing it for a bit
Speaker 1: and I was like okay, and then people started being like, yo,
Speaker 1: where is the diversity, and you actually came and was
Speaker 1: like no, they sent me an offer. We just couldn't
Speaker 1: work something out right now, and then next thing, I know,
Speaker 1: you're on. Yeah. That was the optic I would imagine
Speaker 1: from outside. Uh. So, I've been working with a Blizzard
Speaker 1: for like, yeah, four or five years. I've been doing
Speaker 1: stuff with them on the hosting side. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: did blizz Con before, I hosted like one of the
Speaker 1: launch events for Heroes of the Storm here in the US,
Speaker 1: and um, eventually I ended up doing the Overwatch Open,
Speaker 1: which was basically this tournament they threw down in Atlanta
Speaker 1: on TBS with you. I was gonna say that I've
Speaker 1: seen commercials of you on TBS. Oh yeah, yeah. People
Speaker 1: people have been telling me that I've never seen any
Speaker 1: of them. There was one recently. Yeah. Recent I mean
Speaker 1: like in the last month that I saw you. So
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're you might need to get
Speaker 1: your money if they're like reading residuals residuals, but it's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the last month. Yeah, that's that's a lot of
Speaker 1: sports for you free work, you know, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: But uh no, I love the people down to the
Speaker 1: week um, and I'll be working with them again hopefully
Speaker 1: pretty soon. Anyways, I did the Overwatch open thing. It
Speaker 1: was crazy. We had like a crazy moment where I
Speaker 1: loved the handshake with some guy. Remember that. I remember that.
Speaker 1: That was a meme. That was a real mean it
Speaker 1: was front page Reddit. God, Jimmy Fallon took. Don't worry
Speaker 1: because Jimmy Fallon said his piece. And then we did
Speaker 1: a broadcast and I got back there basically showing him
Speaker 1: messing up his handshake like some NBA players. So we
Speaker 1: went back and forth, we traded it. Yeah. So that
Speaker 1: was my first for Way and Overwatch, and then I
Speaker 1: ended up coming back the summer of Seen and doing
Speaker 1: the Overwatch World Cup and so that was crazy life
Speaker 1: changing experience for me because it was like my first
Speaker 1: time trappling to a lot of those countries. Uh. I
Speaker 1: went to Shanghai where everybody asked me what team I
Speaker 1: played for. I went to Australia Sydney, where everybody asked
Speaker 1: me why we voted the president and a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other stories questions like that. It was. It was
Speaker 1: one of those But anyways, long story short, that was
Speaker 1: a life changing experience and I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to do something else. We Overwatch. I made such a
Speaker 1: great relationship with all the players, and so I had
Speaker 1: been talking with them, like since the conclusion of the
Speaker 1: Overwatch World Cup, which was around Blizz Con, about that.
Speaker 1: And it was just one of those things where you know,
Speaker 1: the lawyers, they do their thing and they go back
Speaker 1: and forth and then you know there's certain things, you know,
Speaker 1: we can't budge on certain and their own budgeting, and
Speaker 1: it just took a little longer. And I was supposed
Speaker 1: to be there at day one. I was, yeah, And
Speaker 1: it was kind of crazy seeing everybody go like, well,
Speaker 1: what's what's up and calling me out specifically. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess it was kind of validating in a sense.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm glad they like acknowledged me, you know,
Speaker 1: like it means my work that I've done so far
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten unnoticed. I mean, yeah, you you are one
Speaker 1: of my favorite voices when it comes to Blizz because
Speaker 1: you've been doing I remember when I saw you up
Speaker 1: there on blizz Con Hold it Down, was like that
Speaker 1: my boy right there, and you've been killing it and Elie.
Speaker 1: I remember when you started doing elag and we talked
Speaker 1: about it shortly because I remember correctly that's Turner Sports
Speaker 1: turn Yeah, like Craig Berry, the vice president of Turner,
Speaker 1: like one to get in the sports. Real Bad has
Speaker 1: been like a brand down there that they've been cycling
Speaker 1: mini games through the counter strikes their main game. Uh,
Speaker 1: they've done street Fighter previously. They just did tech in
Speaker 1: Um and Justice too, so they are definitely like looking
Speaker 1: at fighting games pretty hardcore. They even did a Rocket
Speaker 1: League one and all all of them did very well.
Speaker 1: So the league, I would say, has been like one
Speaker 1: of the main uh pioneers when it comes to taking
Speaker 1: e sports and bringing it to broadcasts more in a
Speaker 1: more high quality. Oh yeah, no, the elague stories are great.
Speaker 1: So some of these tournaments don't have prize money, right,
Speaker 1: some of them they're just straight you gave me a face.
Speaker 1: I mean some of them do. There's so many tournaments
Speaker 1: out there, yes, and this is a nerdy podcast for everyone,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people actually aren't the reason why
Speaker 1: we're doing this because a lot of people don't know
Speaker 1: the amount of tournaments and what all it entails. So
Speaker 1: can you talk about kind of what a tournament looks
Speaker 1: like for sure. Yeah. So, I mean there's a lot
Speaker 1: of tournaments that don't have like there local and so
Speaker 1: typically what happens at locals, depending on what genre, is
Speaker 1: either like just a whole bunch of friends get together
Speaker 1: and they play for pride, or if it's like something
Speaker 1: like we have here in on the West Coast, we
Speaker 1: have Wednesday Night Fights, which happens in Santa Anna, and
Speaker 1: then out on the East Coast there's the Next Level
Speaker 1: Battle Circuit. These are fighting game tournaments that happen every week.
Speaker 1: People refer to him as weeklies, and you go there,
Speaker 1: you pay to get in, and then there's a pot.
Speaker 1: Whoever comes out first place, they win that pot and
Speaker 1: they go home with that depending on how many people
Speaker 1: show up, so that there's a lot of that happening.
Speaker 1: And then you have like your big invitationals, your majors,
Speaker 1: uh so to speak, that happened every year. For instance,
Speaker 1: like Evo's the big Fighting Game Major that happens every summer.
Speaker 1: It happens in Vegas. Typically everybody comes from around the
Speaker 1: world and they play for like huge catch prizes. And
Speaker 1: then you have like your majors and other games like
Speaker 1: counter Strike, there's like ten majors a year. I think
Speaker 1: it kind of flucts your weights because they've been adding
Speaker 1: and taking away majors. But like these are the big
Speaker 1: tournaments for the big prizes and stuff like that. It
Speaker 1: varies from game the game though, to be honest, like
Speaker 1: even Rocket League, like some tournament like dream Hack would
Speaker 1: be like, oh, we want Rocket League, Let's do a
Speaker 1: Rocket League tournament of cash prize. They'll find a sponsor.
Speaker 1: There's a prize there, you know. But the thing is
Speaker 1: these tournaments happening a lot more. There's a lot more
Speaker 1: like ways to make money playing these games. You just
Speaker 1: gotta be good enough. And the thing is, like what
Speaker 1: happens now is the sports organizations they find players and
Speaker 1: they send them out, They fund a way to get
Speaker 1: them out to all the tournaments, and then those dudes
Speaker 1: go out there, they win, they bring back some money
Speaker 1: for the organization. So and that's kind of like been
Speaker 1: like a hustle for a lot of e sports. But
Speaker 1: now we're starting to see people make actual leagues, and
Speaker 1: so it's a little bit different because people are going
Speaker 1: in with like salaries now, like with the Overwatch League,
Speaker 1: people going with salaries and they have guaranteed money coming
Speaker 1: to them. They don't have to worry about any majors
Speaker 1: or anything like that or you know this, it's a
Speaker 1: little bit more consistent and a little bit more guaranteed
Speaker 1: and upfront, and so they can just focus on playing
Speaker 1: and they know like when the playoffs are and they
Speaker 1: know that they have to make and win a certain
Speaker 1: amount of games to get there and things of that nature.
Speaker 1: And that was a big move because the sports was
Speaker 1: tricky in that way. Earlier we were talking about how
Speaker 1: in counter Strikes, one of the big moves is wait
Speaker 1: until the trade deadlines are over so you can drop
Speaker 1: your players so that no one can pick them and
Speaker 1: use them against you. But what that does is kind
Speaker 1: of screw over the place, right, so they can't make
Speaker 1: any money now because you didn't want any competition, right,
Speaker 1: So that I feel like that's a big change that
Speaker 1: needs to happen in those leagues to really prevent against that,
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe follow the Overwatch model, so if
Speaker 1: you want to drop your player, you could drop them
Speaker 1: because they're gonna get paid either way. Yeah, I appreciate
Speaker 1: the fact that they kind of like made a league.
Speaker 1: There's still some stuff that Overwatch League needs to have happened,
Speaker 1: like there needs to be a players union and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But I like the fact that these guys
Speaker 1: can actually focus on the game now, you know, they
Speaker 1: can focus on just playing and they don't have to
Speaker 1: worry about the inconsistency because it's basically like the freelance lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Plus like gaming, it's just not getting
Speaker 1: to this point where's lucrative. So we were talking about
Speaker 1: one of our friends, her brother got picked up for
Speaker 1: a league and so he moved into a house and
Speaker 1: that was like his life, which is really fascinating exciting thing.
Speaker 1: But like you said, when you get dropped last minute
Speaker 1: and you don't necessarily have a backup planet can be
Speaker 1: I think startling for some of these younger players. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping we see a lot more situations where these
Speaker 1: guys don't have to deal with that. I mean, Overwatch
Speaker 1: League is his own case study. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we'll have any more other leagues like that. I know
Speaker 1: League Legends they just went into franchise and teams too,
Speaker 1: so I mean, I'm sure they'll find a way to
Speaker 1: come around. I would like to see the fighting game
Speaker 1: community do a better job with that personally. Now you
Speaker 1: do see a lot of players who are sponsored, uh,
Speaker 1: and a lot of sports organizations that are getting better
Speaker 1: about this, like Echo Fox right now, they're they're great,
Speaker 1: Like they give their players money up front, you know,
Speaker 1: they signed them for long periods of time. They don't
Speaker 1: just drop them. They stick with their players and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But that's been that's actually been a huge
Speaker 1: problem though in EA sports for a while, so like
Speaker 1: people just getting dropped. Just the way they treat the
Speaker 1: players is kind of but overall, yeah, which is why
Speaker 1: I was like super happy to not even like worry
Speaker 1: about what I'm gonna take a different route one bit
Speaker 1: already already got the one thing going against me, Like,
Speaker 1: oh man, all right, well before we sign off here,
Speaker 1: what do you think the future sports the media future?
Speaker 1: I see us well, for Overwatch the League in particular,
Speaker 1: I see more things like that happening. We're gonna start
Speaker 1: seeing more franchising, We're gonna start seeing people try to
Speaker 1: create more structure around it, because that's, like I said,
Speaker 1: have been a huge problem about just people being able
Speaker 1: to have an access point to it, you know, So
Speaker 1: we'll see more structure. Overwatch League will continue to grow itself.
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be expansion teams for sure, so
Speaker 1: that means more players can come in. UM. And I
Speaker 1: think the fighting game community we're gonna start to see
Speaker 1: a little more structure around that too. I mean Capcom
Speaker 1: has tried to do some stuff with Street Fighter. UM.
Speaker 1: I hope they will relinquish their hold on that and
Speaker 1: let some other people step in. I'd love to see
Speaker 1: them team up with like Turner Sports and make a
Speaker 1: league for fighting games and just let that be it.
Speaker 1: You know. It kind of sucks because the fighting game
Speaker 1: community is about people being able to show up on
Speaker 1: the day anybody, right, right, and so it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to like organize all that stuff. But I see
Speaker 1: us figuring something out. Maybe there'll be more invitational tournaments
Speaker 1: things of that nature. But we'll just see a lot
Speaker 1: more structure in the immediate future and far into the future. Olympics, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe a union and stuff. Yeah. Like on Sports Center,
Speaker 1: they're talking about East Sports. Yeah. Yeah. If he was
Speaker 1: covering that, people are like, oh, this shouldn't be on ESPN,
Speaker 1: And then he was like, but there's like poker on there,
Speaker 1: so there's all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: it's people eating hot dogs. Yeah that's true. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it this hot dog competition, then yes, we should
Speaker 1: have the sports being covered on there. I feel like
Speaker 1: the future of the sports is very bright. I feel
Speaker 1: like now it's generally understood to be something that should
Speaker 1: be taken seriously. Yeah, it took a long road. I
Speaker 1: feel like we both kind of saw where you know,
Speaker 1: how long it's taken at this point. But now it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and what I hope to see is that people are mature. Yeah,
Speaker 1: usually people to mature and the single girl a lot
Speaker 1: faster because I feel like immaturities was made it take
Speaker 1: so long in these games. Yeah, we're kids, so I
Speaker 1: want to remember that. Well, where can people find at
Speaker 1: Malik four? Play on everything social media like Twitter, Instagram, everything,
Speaker 1: Just at Malik four play on the sound on SoundCloud too.
Speaker 1: On SoundCloud as well, and uh, every Wednesday through Saturday,
Speaker 1: Twitch dot Tv Slash Overwatch League, I'm never alright and
Speaker 1: you know me, it's your boy. If you I f
Speaker 1: y n W A d i w E on both
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram, catch a boy Wilder. I am at
Speaker 1: Miss Danny Fernandez. It's m S D A N I
Speaker 1: F E R n A N D Easy. Don't write
Speaker 1: the other Danny Fernandez because I am apparently a Spanish
Speaker 1: boy band singer blocked me when I messaged him, so dang. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And definitely if you want to, you know, follow all
Speaker 1: the Nerdificent socials any R D I F I C
Speaker 1: N T on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Like, subscribe gil as
Speaker 1: a five star review. You know you want to. You've
Speaker 1: been listening for this long. Let's get it in. Let's
Speaker 1: make it official. Please yeah, and tweet us, uh what
Speaker 1: you want us to cover? This is supposed to be
Speaker 1: a podcast for everyone, so whether you are you know,
Speaker 1: an expert in this or someone new, what is something
Speaker 1: that you want us to cover? Let us know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: might throw it on the dock. We'll shout you out too,
Speaker 1: all right, Joe, stay r