1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: When you have such a slim majority, it means that 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: there's going to be compromises. One way to draw more 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: people into the workforce and to draw them in productively 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: is to pay them a higher way. Schloomberg Sound On, Politics, 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top Name. Inflation is running 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: much higher than the Fed projected. There is a monitoring 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: system that many big corporations are really contemplating is to 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: sort of how do we keep the employees that are 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: inside healthy. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: Radio Live from Washington, where China is looming large. Even 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: more than usual is the US and its allies around 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: the world point fingers at Beijing over a series of 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: cyber attacks, including the Microsoft Exchange hack. We're going to 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: talk about it, coming up with Wendy benjamin'son Bloomberg, Deputy 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Managing editor for U S Government News. Will also speak 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: with Jamil Jaffer of the cyber security firm iron Net Security. Later. 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: The debate over infrastructure moves into high gear this week 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. We'll talk about that with 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: the US Chamber of Commerce, and we'll take the pulse 21 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: of Congressman Don Buyer of Virginia, chair of the Joint 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: Economic Committee. We're back in Washington and things are busy big. 23 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: Thanks by the way to Bloomberg's Emily Wilkins and Jack 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick for sitting in this chair last week. Great to 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: hear as well from as always Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: she and Zano and Rick Davis. They'll be with us 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: later this hour. So the White House is taking aim 28 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: at a major government for harboring, if not sponsoring, cyber hacking. 29 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: And here's the news. It's not Russia. A deliberately worded 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: statement from the US, the UK, NATO and other allies 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: alleging the Chinese government was behind the Microsoft Exchange hack 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: and a series of other attacks over recent years. President 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: Biden was asked about it today at the White House. 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: They're still determining exactly what happened. Investigation is not finished. 35 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: My understanding is that the Chinese government, not unlike the 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: Russian government, is not doing this themselves, but are protecting 37 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: those who are doing it, and maybe even accommodating and 38 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: being able to do it. Biden says he'll have more 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: to learn in an intelligence briefing tomorrow morning. Let's learn 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: more about what we know now though. From Wendy benjamin'son Bloomberg, 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: Deputy Managing editor for US Government News, Wendy, thanks for 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: joining us today. Can we assume the intelligence community knows 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: a lot more about what happened than what the President 44 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: just said? If they were comfortable saying this much already, Well, 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: I certainly hope. So we always sort of hope the 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: intelligence community knows more than yeah, exactly. UM, And I 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: think they do. And I think, um, you know, they 48 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: decided to begin the week sort of the way they 49 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: ended last time, the administration and the U S allies 50 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: and um, you know, criticizing China for some activity. This 51 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: is the latest and a range of things that the 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: administration has um has criticized China for in the last week. Um. 53 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: And they're saying that it could be China itself, or 54 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: it could be that China is looking the other way 55 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: as private groups in China are conducting these excusing these 56 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: cyber attacks, including the big Microsoft Exchange one. It's interesting 57 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: that it was China and not Russia. A lot of 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: people have been waiting to hear about the US following 59 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: a series of attacks that have allegedly been tied UH 60 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: to Moscow. But this is Beijing, obviously, and it's a 61 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: relationship far different than the one we have with Russia. 62 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: This is a relationship economically, at least that I've been told. 63 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: Both parties need, absolutely, both partied to need each other. 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: They really do. But Biden has signaled lately, President Biden 65 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: has signaled that he is going to, um, you know, 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: really focus on China. He's called it, you know, sort 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: of the relationship of the century. Um. You know, Russia's 68 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: sort of what President former President of Obama described as 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: a kid is such in the back of the classroom 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: and scoffs and everything that doesn't have the sort of 71 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: economic might that China does. Um. And so you know, 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: they're going to try to cooperate where they can and 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: criticize and try to hold them to account where they can. 74 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: Whether they can hold them too account as a whole 75 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: different argument. And won't that be factored into whatever response 76 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: we have here. This is a very delicate dance. If 77 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: the White House is preparing some sort of cyber response, 78 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: right absolutely, I mean, they have indicted um for Chinese 79 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: nationals affiliated with the State Security Ministry for hacking in 80 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: the companies. They can impose sanctions, but you know, there's 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: only so far he can go before things get you know, 82 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: go sideways on the other end, before it's a real 83 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,559 Speaker 1: cold war. Yeah, exactly, Wendy Benjaminson, Bloomberg's deputy managing editor 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: for US Government News. Great to have you with us, 85 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: helping to set the stage here. I want to bring 86 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: in Jamille Jaffer, who works in the business you senior 87 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: vice president at iron Net Security and director of the 88 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: National Security Institute at George Mason University. Bloomberg is reporting 89 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: that these hackers used over fifty different tactics to break 90 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: into our networks, Jamale, including phishing emails, which I thought 91 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: we had all learned about already, So welcome to the program. 92 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: I wonder how sophisticated are these hackers in China. Yeah, 93 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: well thanks for having me. Look, I mean, you're gonna 94 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: use no matter how sophisticated the hackers are, You're going 95 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: to use the easiest tactics you have in your tool 96 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: kit to get into phishing works, which unfortunately it still 97 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: does for a lot of actors, whether in the US 98 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: government or or the private sector. You're gonna you know, 99 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: the Chinese, the Russians, your eyes, and those cluenes are 100 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: all going to use that tactic if it gets them in. 101 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: And once you're in, Right, it's all about lateral movement, 102 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: moving around, spinding the computers you want to get to. 103 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: I'm the deploy your malor and getting in and ounce. 104 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways to find those folks looking 105 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: at all the different parts of the what they call 106 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: the cyber kill chain. But you're right, they're using very 107 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: basic tact at the times to get in. So I'm wondering, then, 108 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: jamale me, if we have over fifty tactics, some of 109 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: these could be quite sophisticated. I just wonder if we're 110 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: seeing China become more creative or the hackers specifically become 111 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: more creative with the methods they're using to crack into 112 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: our companies. Yeah, well, absolutely, certainly at the high end 113 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: particual of the most the most well defended companies, the 114 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: most well defended government institution, they will use sophisticated taxes. 115 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: We saw, for example, the Russians use use a a 116 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: supply chain methodology going in through a security company to 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: get into US government systems. We've seen that also at 118 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: times with these with these ranto war hacks that Russian 119 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: criminal actors have been using. One of the interesting things 120 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: that we've seen here developing in China we've seen in 121 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: a long time in Russia is this use of proxy actors, 122 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: criminal hacker gangs that are sometimes hacking for their own account, 123 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: sometimes not behalf the government, optimes the same people sort 124 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: of blessed by the government or permitted to operate. We're 125 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: now seeing more and more that criminal type activity working 126 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: on behalf of the Chinese state in this case. That 127 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: actually we've seen the justice de proverment a few months 128 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: back in dies for Chinese hackers doing exact that, and 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: that's what happened here again today these four actors, and 130 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: we're not Chinese government hackers. They were criminal hackers. But 131 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: what we know they're working with the Chinese names stake 132 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: in the background. So that's the part of this story. 133 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I want to get to Jamil to to what extent 134 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: do we believe then that China is directing this what 135 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: a government like Beijing have any reason to sponsor this 136 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: behavior if it was not directing it? Both absolutely right, 137 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: You know a lot of times governments use proxy actors. 138 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: We've seen this in the terrorism contact with Iran where 139 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: they use his Blah. We saw what they do with 140 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: Katab has bela in in in Iraq when they attacked 141 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: American soldiers. So we've seen proxy behavior in the real 142 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: world quite a bit and in the cyber realm. The 143 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: Russians that essentially you know, patented this ability. They have 144 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: a number of criminal gangs that operate in a Russia 145 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: conducting ransomware attacks, yes, for their own bank account and 146 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: to make money, but also knowing the government, Russian government 147 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: will will gain some benefit out of it. And actually 148 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: it's really interually about Russian example is you often see 149 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: Russian state hackers on the nights and weekends doing this business. 150 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: And you know, nothing happens in Russia without Ladhmirtutin signoffs. 151 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: So we know there's uh, there's sort of complexity there. 152 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: Now in China, we're only now seeing the developments behavior, 153 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: but we have every reason to believe that. I know 154 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: the Vice president President now is looking into exactly what 155 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: we have to attribute to China. But we have now 156 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: the US governments called this out and said this is 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: Chinese activity. Chinese government likely, and so now it has 158 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: to happen is how do we hold them accountable? Right, 159 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: how do we defend ourselves better? We want to talk 160 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: about that front, but also how do we hold them 161 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: accountable and meet them pay cofts? Well, I'd like to 162 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: know how we're going to hold them accountable. And when 163 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: you see a statement from not just the US but 164 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: the UK from NATO, it has a military ring to 165 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: it here, obviously, and it makes it sound like the 166 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: US is gearing up on some sort of cyber wartime footing. 167 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: What do you, as somebody in the business want to 168 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: see the government do? Well? You know, look, I think 169 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: there's two really important things we've got to do. One 170 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: on the defensive side, right, we've got to get better 171 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: at our own defense, and part of that involved you know, 172 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: to day, we operate as individual companies, individual government agencies. 173 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: We don't act together. Even though these nations states are 174 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: coming after us in a collective ways, we don't collectly defend. 175 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: And the Cyber State Clary Commission last year called US 176 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: out and fill us. We need the paradigm shift from 177 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: individual defense to collective defense in these companies with companies, industries, industries, 178 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: and industry, government together. So that's one piece of defensive side. 179 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: On the offensive side, like what you're talking about, we've 180 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: got to get tougher. We gotta extract cough and that 181 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: they need a fiber offensive capability. But it also may 182 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: mean sanctions or other behaviors. We may work with the 183 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: with the advert you know, the enemy of our enemy, right, 184 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: are their adversaries to help them get better? Right, And 185 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: part of the challenge here is that we're not really 186 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: good at telling our enemies, Hey, here are the things 187 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: that you might do to me that will that will 188 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: cause you to act out against you. Here's what I'm 189 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: gonna do to you. And then we don't actually impose cops. 190 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about it, say oh yeah, we'll 191 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: act as time plans and are choosing. But our adversaries 192 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: have gotten used to us not doing anything. We've got 193 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: to take action and we've gotta be tough. We're talking 194 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: with Jamie Jaffer on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm curious though 195 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: to what extent we can respond. Speak to me more 196 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: specifically about this, Jim Meal. When you're advising clients, either 197 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: through the National Security Institute or or actual clients at 198 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: Iron net security. What is it that you want to 199 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: see them do, knock the lights out, take the internet down? 200 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: What can specifically we do to really send a message 201 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: to whether it's China, Russia or any other government doing this. No, 202 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: it's a great question, right, I think you want to 203 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: respond in kind and you want to respond in a 204 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: measured way. Right. So when you talk about hacking, right, 205 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: people often had to talk about cyber attacks and taking 206 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: down the grid and taking out this and take it down. 207 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: That we haven't seen that happen here in the State. 208 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: The closest we've gotten to that is some of these 209 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: ransom or attacks which have spillover effects into critical infrastructure. Right. 210 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: We've seen obviously the Colonal pipeline hack that led to 211 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: a potential shutdown that pipeline. Luckily Clonal Popeline got ahead 212 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: of it. They shut down. They ultimately, for better or 213 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: for work, paid the ransom right um, and they got 214 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: ahead of it. Now, we had seen nation states probing 215 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: our critical impacts structure. Right, We've seen probes in the 216 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: energy industry, the financials to saw the Iranians take actually 217 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: slow down banks back in twenty sixteen. Right, So we've 218 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: seen this kind of behavior but I think they should 219 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: have realized that they go down that road, they may 220 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: face really serious consequence from the US. They has gotten 221 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: determined that space. It's the western area. This massive effort 222 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: to steal intellectual property by the China bas school literally 223 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: trilling the dolls right. And this of course has been 224 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: going on even without digital technology for decades with China. 225 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: Jamil Jaffer of iron Net Security, I really appreciate your 226 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: coming by you. We're just hearing the White House today 227 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: is pointing fingers at China over last year's Microsoft hack 228 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: earlier this year, alleging that Beijing is at least protecting 229 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: a group of hackers, if not more in this case, 230 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: in a series of other cases. And that's where we 231 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: begin our conversation today with Neil Bradley, Executive vice president, 232 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: chief Policy Officer at the US Chamber of Commerce. Neil, 233 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: thanks for coming over, Thanks for having it. Just great 234 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: to see you here. This potentially, not just China, but 235 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: also Russia impact a lot of your members. Seeing all 236 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: of these countries to come together, even NATO making a 237 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: stand on this makes this feel like a war footing, 238 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and I wonder if that's what you think we need. Well, 239 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it's exactly a war footing, 240 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: but it's certainly something close to that. You know, we 241 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: are seeing both state sponsored cyber attacks as well as 242 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: state countenanced cyber attacks, and so, uh, you know, these 243 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: are these are these are terrorists. They are intent on 244 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: wrecking havoc in the US economics system. Uh. They're intent 245 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: on trying to steal, as criminal gangs would uh from 246 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: productive elements of society. And we rely on government. We 247 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: count on government to take the fight to these cyber 248 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: criminals wherever they exist. And so we were pleased to 249 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: see the action by the US government, NATO and others. 250 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: We need to see more of that if we're gonna 251 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: if we're gonna take this threat seriously, I like to 252 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: ask you do you do you want to see something 253 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: a message more forceful. And I realized that the White 254 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: House could say something more tomorrow. The President will be 255 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: brief tomorrow morning. But when does it come time to 256 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: really show off what we can do. Well, you know, 257 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, what we need is action, 258 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: right and so, um, you know, I'm not going to 259 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: tell the government the right way to go after these 260 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: cyber criminals and the right way to put pressure on 261 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: the state, the states who are countans ng or at 262 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: least tolerating this type of behavior. But it's not different 263 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: than things that we've seen before. We know how to 264 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: put pressure on foreign governments. We know how to go 265 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: after international gangs and criminal networks, and that's what we 266 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: ought to be doing today. And it takes a robust effort. 267 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: It involves our law enforcement capabilities, It absolutely involves our 268 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: diplomatic capabilities and global alliances. This is not just a 269 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: problem suffered by the United States, It's a problem suffered 270 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: by really all capitals democratic societies. We're talking with Neil 271 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: Bradley from the US Chamber of Commerce here on Bloomberg Radio. 272 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: You are no stranger to Capitol Hill. You spent a 273 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: lot of years on Capitol Hill, and I know that 274 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: you still talk to a number of of committee chairs. 275 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: And we're in the throes of a grand debate over infrastructure. 276 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: Are we going to get some answers this week? Do 277 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: you want answers this week? How exactly this is going 278 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: to work? Well, we do want answers. I think we'll 279 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: see some answers. Listen. We we are closer today than 280 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: we've been in the last two decades to an acting 281 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: and historic level of investment in our nation's hard infrastructure, 282 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: and so um, it took a lot of work on 283 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: that behalf of a lot of senators from both sides 284 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: of the aisle to get us to this point. You'all. 285 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: You know they always say that the last part of 286 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: the deal is the hardest part of the deal. Where 287 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: we're at the last part of the deal, and so 288 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, I know everyone is anxious to see it 289 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: come to a conclusion. We certainly are at the US Chamber. 290 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: But listen, I think Rob Portman, Senator from Ohio, Christian 291 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: Cinema Senator from Arizona, have done yeoman's work, and I 292 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: think they're going to get this thing across the finish line. 293 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: You have for mentioned. Ron Portman says there will not 294 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: be I R. S enforcement in this bipartisan deal. So 295 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: how do we pay for it? Well, you know it's uh, 296 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: as they say, they overturned the couch cushions, and UH 297 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: find out what changes underneath. And you know, there's a 298 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: fair level of kind of traditional Washington pay force. I'm 299 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: not going to say that any of them meet the 300 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: textbook definition of of good budgetary financing, but they're they're real, 301 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: and they're meaningful, and you know they're going to fund 302 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: a worthy and important cause, and that's finally getting our 303 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: bridges and our ports and our water systems and our 304 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: broadband to where it needs to be so that we 305 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: can remain globally competitive. So the Chamber does support the 306 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: so called pay for is that were outlined in the framework. Yeah, 307 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: I mean, would they be the pay for us that 308 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: we would write if if we were king for a 309 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: day writing the bill. No, But we recognize that this 310 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: is a compromise that you have to bring people together. 311 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: Not everyone gets a percent of what they want, and 312 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: you have to accept some things that maybe you don't 313 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: want to accept. That's the nature of finding an agreement. 314 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: I think that's lost on too many people because frankly, 315 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: we haven't seen enough of it in Washington these days. 316 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: But it's a reasonable compromise that moves the ball forward, 317 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: and reasonable people ought to be able to support it. 318 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: If this comes down to deficit spending and we don't 319 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: know what form this will take, well, your members push 320 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: back on that? Will there be outrage? Will you hear 321 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: from your member companies? No? No, I I don't think so. 322 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: In this context, we know that there are real pay 323 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: force that are part of this. We also know that 324 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: unlike previous proposals, this really is going to hard infrastructure, 325 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: so that we know that if you make investments in 326 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: roads and broadband, if you make investments in the electricity grid, 327 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: you will improve the productivity of the U. S economy. 328 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: And if you improve the productivity of the U. S economy, 329 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: will have an economy that grows faster, and ultimately, at 330 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's what we need, both 331 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,119 Speaker 1: to deal with the budget death US at in Washington 332 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: and frankly, to support US families and businesses. We need 333 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: a faster growing economy. Our current state of infrastructures holding 334 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: that back. This UH, this bipartisan package will fix that 335 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: and move us a long way towards getting us to 336 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: the better growth trajectory that we want to be on. 337 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: Many thanks for joining us here on Bloomberg Sound on 338 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: and stay in touch with us from the Chamber, Neil 339 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: as we get through this. This has become a very 340 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: important week in debate around infrastructure, as Senate Majority Leader 341 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer pushes for a vote on cloture. Now, well, 342 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: we don't even have a bill yet, and joining us 343 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: to talk about this against the backdrop of an economic 344 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: recovery that some think is looking more delicate. As Congressman 345 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: Don Bayer, Democrat from Virginia, Congressman, welcome back to Bloomberg 346 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: sound On. Thank you Joe very much. It's good to 347 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: be back. Timeline is looking rather challenging at the moment, 348 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 1: if not impossible. Are we about to find out if 349 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: there is a culture vote this week in the Senate, 350 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: that Democrats might have to go on their own on this, 351 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: to go alone on infrastructure. Maybe in Joe, I have 352 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: suspected that all along, But I think most Democrats, and 353 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: I hope most Republicans would rather have a bipartisan plan 354 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: if they can get it. But of course, everything I 355 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: read today makes it seem very very tentative, very fragile. 356 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: Not the economic recovery of written large, but the bipartisan 357 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: plan put together by the Joe Mansions and Sue Collins 358 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: and Susan Collins and others of the world. What's the 359 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: biggest concern right now, is it the pay for is 360 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: the fact that the I R S Enforcement will now 361 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: not be part of that bipartisan framework. Yeah, although they 362 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: seem to be substituting you know, some of the medicare 363 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: negotiations for that. Although I frankly I'm confused about why 364 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: the I R S enforcement should be an issue. And 365 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: we're not talking about We're only talking about collecting taxes 366 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: that actually do so that be have been cheating on, 367 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: and why the Republicans would want to protect the cheaters 368 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: when most of us, you and I are all paying 369 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: our taxes. Honestly, a long time doesn't really compute. Well, 370 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: what do you make of that? Is? Is the White 371 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: House worried about Big brother comments, you know, following the 372 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: Facebook stuff that Joe Biden was saying about COVID about 373 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: door to door response teams. Then you lay around the 374 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: I R S and we've got a trend. Yeah, except 375 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: that I think that's a pretty silly and in a 376 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: way to think about it. My a lot of my 377 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: Republican friends talk about the pro Public leak where somebody 378 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: illegally and wrongly immorally released the tax data on thirteen 379 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: of the billionaires, and that was wrong and it shouldn't 380 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: have happened. But it's hard to go from that to 381 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: thinking that every American or every rich American is somehow 382 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: going to have their personal life poured out onto the newspapers. 383 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: That's just not happening. It's it's a huge lead. There's 384 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: also the idea that, um, you know, the I r 385 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: S is not going in and looking at your text 386 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: messages or your your emails or what they're doing is 387 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: looking at bank account what was it at the beginning 388 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: of the year, where did it peak, and where was 389 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: it at the end of the year, especially for your businesses. Um, 390 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: so that if something steamed way out of think they 391 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: could go investigate deeper. But um, it takes to be 392 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: a pretty mild way to go. If you're not convinced 393 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: then that we've made up for the loss of money 394 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: from I R S enforcement, are we about to have 395 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: a whole new debate about how to pay for it? 396 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm asking you that with a little bit 397 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: of a smart knowing this actually hasn't been written yet. Yeah, 398 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: I know, it's it's hard to know. But because there 399 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: are other from the democratic perspectives, a lot of other 400 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: very reasonable hanging fruit, you know, increasing the corporate income tax, 401 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: this guilty regime. We have a minimum tax when us 402 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: earning corporate earnings overseas east because you have people like 403 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: you know, Apple that go to Ireland and pay almost 404 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: no taxes back to the United States, things that clearly 405 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: aren't fair. Um. But but again, most of those are 406 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: going to run into really serious Republican composition. We just 407 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: had the Vice President of the US Chamber here in 408 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: the studio before our conversation. Congressmen seemed actually in many 409 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: ways flexible for the Chamber, but made clear that his 410 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: members that the Chambers members are not going to put 411 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: up with deficit spending and higher inflation. This has become 412 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 1: a real household conversation now. But it's it's hard when 413 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: when and I don't mean this to be partisan at all, 414 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: but when, if you're a Republican he say no new 415 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: taxes but also no deficits spending. Where does that leave you? 416 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: You know, then it means you can't spend anything. Well, 417 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: so how does that end? Are we going to start 418 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: debating a gas tax again? Well, and and that runs 419 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: into you know, that's interesting that a lot of the 420 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: Republicans were for a gas tact or at least indexing it. 421 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: But that runs against Joe by this promise not to 422 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: raise taxes on people making four hours or less. I 423 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: think of what it may run into, and I don't 424 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: want to be pessimistic, but I have long thought that 425 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: we go as far as we can on the bipartisan approach. 426 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: In a perfect world it works. But if it doesn't, 427 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: that's why Mark Warner and Bernie Sanders and John Yarmouth 428 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: in the House are preparing the the budget resolution that 429 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: will allow us to do it on reconciliation, that is, 430 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: without any Republican Viollians. It sounds like that's where we're going. Congressman, Yeah, 431 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: it does. Um And I think I personally if you 432 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: if I put a note in an envelope and steeled that, 433 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: that's what I would say. Um. But I but I 434 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: don't want to give up because that A lot of 435 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: good Republican and Democrats in the Senate have tried to 436 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: work together because something. So says the chair of the 437 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: Joint Economic Committee in the House, this is a revealing conversation. Congressmen, 438 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: You're making me feel like I'm closer to the truth. Well, 439 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: but you're you're relying on my crystal ballity. You are 440 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: also on the House Science Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics. 441 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: Congress when I have to ask you, having seen Richard Branson, well, 442 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: we'll say go into space for the benefit of this 443 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: conversation about to see Jeff Bezos do the same. How 444 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,479 Speaker 1: come you're not going to space tomorrow? Well, it's too 445 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: expensive the one tomorrow. I guess we have our first 446 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: paying customer first too. In American At least I did 447 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: watch the entire brands in light. It was it was 448 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: fun and fascinating. I did. It was fascinating. How important 449 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: is this, though, to the future of commercial in space. Well, 450 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I think on an inspirational sense it's very important. I'm 451 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: not sure, and this is a really just a small subset. 452 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: You know that the whole space tourism, I don't think 453 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: it really affects much. What's happening to the larger scientific missions. 454 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: You know that James Webb Space Telescope, which will dramatically 455 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: increase our our understanding of the of the universe, and 456 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: then the Nancy Grace Roman Telescope, which shows up in 457 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: the year or two, and then the Mars and Moon 458 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: and Mars missions Artemus one, two, and three. None of 459 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: the assess anything to do with that, But I guess 460 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: I guess people focused on space and excited about it. 461 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: It's gonna have to get much, much, much, much cheaper 462 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: for it to be accessible to any normal human being 463 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: to get to go into space. And so the government 464 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: will continue doing what it's doing at NASA, and hence 465 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: the House Science Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics. That's where 466 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: we of course find Congressman Don Buyer of Virginia again 467 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: share of the Joint Economic Committee, with a lot to 468 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: talk about today. Congressman, thanks for being with us again 469 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Thank you, Jo very much. This is 470 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg So No with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The 471 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: clock is ticking faster on infrastructure. Did you notice that today? 472 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: After Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer called for a cloture 473 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: vote Wednesday in an effort to get things moving at last, 474 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: knowing that lawmakers leave town in August. But I hate 475 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: to keep reminding you of this. There's still no bill, 476 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: nothing written. And one of the big the sources of 477 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: revenue hashed out in the bipartisan deal, money from I R. S. 478 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: Enforcement we're just talking about, is gone now. It's out, 479 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: at least for now. That's why some Republican senators say 480 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: they will not move forward on the test vote this week, 481 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: and so we ask again, well, the bipartisan deal on 482 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure survive the week. We're not quite there yet. There's 483 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: a lot of good work that's happened. Two days is 484 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: a lifetime in Washington, So I don't think we're gonna 485 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: make predictions of the death of of the infrastructure package. 486 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: Jensaki today, White House Press Secretary, in the briefing room, 487 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: and we're joined now by Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she 488 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: and Zano and Rick Davis. Great to be back with 489 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: both of Eugenie, Is it time for Democrats to circle 490 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: the wagons here and start preparing to do this alone? 491 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: Or was that the plan the whole time? Yeah, if 492 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: anybody told you that politics is boring, this is about 493 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: as exciting as it gets. I tell you I have. 494 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: I've been nervous all day about this. You know, this 495 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: is a big moment for for Chuck Schumer. He is 496 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: really saying to his own colleagues of Democrats that they 497 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: all have to get on board this thing. And he's 498 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: also testing Republicans willingness to move forward on a bipartisan 499 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: bill that said, we know that this is something that 500 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: a lot of majority leaders do, and sometimes it succeeds 501 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: and sometimes it doesn't, as we saw with Mitch McConnell 502 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: in the Affordable Care Act. So it is a gamble 503 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: for certain, and it is going to be a really 504 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: telling few days here. Well you've probably seen this movie before, 505 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, with all the time you spent in the 506 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: Senate and advising Senator McCain. I just I wonder I'll 507 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: ask you this maybe a slightly different way. Is this 508 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: the way the White House knew this would end the 509 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: whole time? Or are we going to actually get people 510 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: on the record and attempts a at least cloture vote 511 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: vote on a bipartisan deal. Yeah, first of all, I mean, 512 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: the White House is lucky. They have Joe Biden, a 513 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: senator who used to do all these kinds of games 514 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: to get his way, and so sure they understand what's 515 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: happening here. And and look, Schumer's doing his part. He say, hey, 516 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: I got a deadline on ones, I'm gonna take a 517 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: closure vote, and that pushes all the conferees to try 518 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: to get you know, a deal done. But when they 519 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: don't get the deal done, what are they gonna do. 520 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: This is like the ten uh deadline that we've had 521 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: in the course of the bipartisan negotiations that have been 522 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: going on, and we're still making progress. The reality is 523 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: the forty billion dollars that comes out of the I 524 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: R S enforcement in this package that got kicked out 525 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: by Republicans was double counted by the guys doing reconciliation 526 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: who said a hundred million billion dollars was going to 527 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: come out of I R S enforcements. So you can't 528 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: keep counting the same money in different bills. And that's 529 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: part of the complexity of a three point five billion 530 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: dollar reconciliation package moving through the Senate at the same 531 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: time a one point two billion dollar infrastructure package is moving. 532 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: It's a big grab by the Biden administration, and they 533 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: need to let the Senate work its will. And right 534 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: now there are making progress that that these confrees. Twenty 535 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: two members of the Republican Party, in the in the 536 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: Democratic Party are still meeting and still trying to get 537 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,360 Speaker 1: a bill done. But until we see the bill, who knows, yeah, 538 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: and well, well, I don't know if we at this 539 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: point ever will Genie. We actually have to remind ourselves 540 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: that there's no bill yet, or product as we like 541 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: to call it here in Washington. But how do you 542 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: feel about this I R S funding matter? Genie? She 543 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: and Zay know this was supposed to be raising lots 544 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: of money by going back around and enforcing the rules 545 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: for people who did not pay their taxes. This is 546 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: for tax cheating. What would be wrong with that? You know, 547 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: it absolutely is the right thing to do. But but 548 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: to Rick's point, of course, you can't do it two times. 549 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean, if only we could all run our household 550 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: budgets like that, Um, it just can't be done. And 551 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: so I think there's gonna be questions raised if this 552 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: doesn't work. When it was pulled over to the Democrats 553 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: Reconciliation bill, if they would have been better off leaving 554 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: it with the bipartisan deal that over there. But now, 555 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: of course this has all become a huge debate about 556 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: pay for us. So not only don't we have legislation written, 557 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: we also don't have agreements on the most important part, 558 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: which is the pay for part, and that's where this 559 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: I R S enforcement is going to be fascinating. And oh, 560 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: by the way, we still have to wait for the 561 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: CBO to score this whole thing. And I think that 562 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: that is going to be a really telling moment when 563 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: they challenge probably both sides on much of what they 564 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: hope to see in these bills. So, rick, is there 565 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: more going on here in Chuck Schumer's head? Is he 566 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: talking to Nancy Pelosi about this? I mean, is the 567 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: Senate gonna end up having the last word on any 568 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: bipart as an attempt this week? Well, I mean they 569 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: certainly have the word this week all the actions in 570 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: the Senate. He probably isn't talking to Nancy Pelosi because 571 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: she's just gonna put more pressure on him. So typically 572 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: he's gonna focus on talking to his caucus and saying, guys, 573 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: get a deal done. But look, I mean there there's 574 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: a lot of positive I mean, when people like Susan 575 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: Collins or at the table doing this negotiation and and 576 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: and says to Schumer, hey, I don't think we can 577 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: finish by Wednesday. It doesn't mean that they're not going 578 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: to do a bill. It just means they got more 579 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: work to do. And if if Wednesday at five o'clock 580 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: when we do this show, if they're still working on 581 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: that bill, it's still a good thing. Okay, will it 582 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: Will it be still underway, Jeannie, or are you more 583 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: skeptical than Rick? I have been more skeptical than Rick 584 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: this entire time, although I do think it will still 585 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: be underway. I agree with Jensaki completely. You can't write 586 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: this thing off at this point. I think there's a 587 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: lot of goodwill to get this thing done and a 588 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: lot left to do, so I do think they'll still 589 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: be working on it. But let's not forget as we 590 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: bring up Nancy Pelosi. She's the one who is pressuring, 591 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: to Rick's point, Chuck Schumer and saying, we're not considering 592 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: this thing until you pass both measures. That's part of 593 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: the pressure that Chuck Schumer is under. He is getting 594 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: it from all sides at this point. Hence his sort of, 595 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, effort to move this thing forward quickly, and 596 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: you hear Republicans and Democrats trying to put the brakes 597 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: on that. And his treatment of Kristen Cinema is something 598 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: he's got to be very careful about. I think, well, 599 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: you heard from Congressman Don Buyer before you both came 600 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: on Virginia Northern Virginia eighth District, Chair of the Joint 601 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: Economic Committee, and he is sounding as skeptical as anyone. 602 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: He said, if you put the note in an envelope 603 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: and there'd be no deal. But of course everybody wants 604 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: to let something happen. How about the economic recovery this 605 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: plays in. You heard from President Biden spoke today from 606 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: the White House on this. Interesting semantics, interesting optics. As 607 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: the President and of course Democrats in the administration are 608 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: feeling a lot of pressure. The delta variant is real. 609 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: White House is a bit of a different thing than 610 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: Wall Street, but they're both moving on the same story. Today. 611 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: The markets fell out of bed, if I can say 612 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: that on Bloomberg Radio, because we're deeply concerned about whether 613 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: this economic recovery will be in jeopardy come fall. Six 614 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: of cases are the delta variant. Anthony Faucci Dr Fauci 615 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: saying today on the Balance of Power in an interview 616 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: with David Weston, we're basically begging people now. So what 617 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing now in this country is a significant uptick 618 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: in infections, particularly in those areas of the country, those states, cities, regions, 619 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: counties that have a very low level of vaccination, Whereas, 620 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: in contrast, and those areas with a higher level of vaccination, 621 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: we're seeing less of an uptick, says, we're basically pleading 622 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: with the White House, pleading with people to be vaccinated. 623 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: They're referring now, Genie to the unvaccinated pandemic, almost trying 624 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: to pre write this potential problem in the fall to say, well, 625 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: you know what, Democrats in this White House did everything 626 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: we could. How worried are you about the recovery? That's right, 627 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: they have to be very worried. I mean, I think 628 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: we are all worried looking at these numbers, because they 629 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: are very, very shocking over just the last week, if 630 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: not the last two weeks, And of course what happened 631 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: on Wall Street today is indicative of that. And you 632 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: can see the White House starting to panic a bit. 633 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: They missed their seventy percent promise, and now they're trying 634 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: to blame places like Facebook. They'd certainly deserve some blame 635 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: in all of this, but they are looking to make 636 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: the case that you just made, which it wasn't us. 637 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: We did everything we could. But I think there's going 638 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: to be a lot of questions if they tried to 639 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: move too quickly from the sort of movement a few 640 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: months earlier and saying this thing was sort of over 641 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: and move on to infrastructure and other things and not 642 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: get all the vaccinations they needed to get done. Rick Davis, 643 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: if there's an outbreak of a meaningful scale that actually 644 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: changes the way we are living and working once again, 645 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: if it puts our economic recovery in jeopardy, does that 646 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: actually help the infrastructure argument actually motivate lawmakers to move 647 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: this forward if we're still debating this in the fall. Yeah, 648 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: the biggest problem is you may be having to consider 649 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: another stimulus package for fighting the public health crisis that 650 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: you did not just so it's all the same money, right, 651 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you're either printing it at the FED or 652 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: you're or you're charge and taxpayers, and so it is 653 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: a bit of a train wreck. I think that the 654 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: Hill wants to get these bills done and get out 655 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: of here for the summer so that they can get 656 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: back to their districts and see what's going on with 657 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: the health crisis, because, as Dr Fauci has pointed out, 658 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: it's not the same in every state. I mean, some 659 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: of these guys are gonna get back and find out 660 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: that their communities are doing just fine, and others are 661 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: gonna get back and find out their communities aren't great 662 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: distress because they didn't get vaccinated and now they have 663 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: this delta virant burning through their system. So I think 664 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: I think the administration has always been clear since day one, Um, 665 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: you can't have an economic recovery without a pandemic without 666 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: getting people vaccinated. And I think they need to get 667 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: back to that message, and they need to continue that 668 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: message probably for the balance of the year while they 669 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: still try and manage all these reopenings and the congressional agenda. Boy, 670 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: this is really something. This is gonna be a heck 671 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: of a week, Genie. If you don't beat COVID and 672 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: you can't get the economy to recover the way you promised, 673 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: this administration is going to have very little to chauffeur 674 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: it's work by the end of the year. These are 675 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: the two biggest things that the president promised. They are 676 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: and he is six months in now. Numbers only get 677 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: worse usually historically after this point, So that window is 678 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: closing on the Biden administration, I'm sorry to say, And 679 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: they are dealing with some of the largest issues they 680 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: could be dealing with at this point. Yeah, Jennie, she 681 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: and Zano and Rick Davis. This is why they are 682 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Great to hash it out with you. 683 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna do this again tomorrow, and like Rick said, 684 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: I'll meet you Wednesday at five here as well on 685 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: the East Coast. If that vote is going to happen, 686 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: the clock is ticking faster on sound on, meet you 687 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: back here tomorrow. Thanks for joining us. I'm Joe Matthew. 688 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg