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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hell that for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm a man, I'm forty.

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Speaker 1: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 1: be happy. You want to be happy for a day.

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Speaker 1: Edith Steak is that woof?

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Speaker 2: Woof?

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Speaker 3: And Dan and Tie.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to these celebbo boys and girls.

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Speaker 3: My name's ty Hillebrandt.

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Speaker 4: As always that fun gentleman over there, still in the

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Speaker 4: heart of the Midwest, though I don't know if it

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Speaker 4: is currently flurrying as it was on our last.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's fine, it's a little chilly.

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Speaker 3: We're all good. Podcast recording.

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Speaker 4: Dan Rubinstein Welcome back, sir. How goes it good? It's good.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting a haircut here shortly, which is desperately needed,

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Speaker 1: which apparently your mom noticed him.

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Speaker 3: My mom called it out. Yeah, thank you mommy.

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Speaker 4: She asked me if you were going for a new

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Speaker 4: hair situation growing it out, and I said, I don't

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Speaker 4: think so. I talked to Dan every day, but alas.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, so no, everything everything is great. And

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Speaker 1: you know, as soon as everything seems sort of quiet,

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Speaker 1: we had to spring ball and we're reminiscing about you know,

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Speaker 1: t Higgins. That's a tie in by the way, by

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Speaker 1: the way, we're reminiscing about the four team playoff, we're

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Speaker 1: doing a state of the Union, We're having lots of fun.

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Speaker 1: Boom Boom sues its own conference.

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Speaker 3: Well here and this is truly burg.

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Speaker 4: News. We're recording this on Wednesday. It breaks on Tuesday

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Speaker 4: morning that Clemson is filing a lawsuit over exorbitant exit

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Speaker 4: fees over the grant of rights against the ACC. So

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Speaker 4: this is not, I repeat, not a statement of a

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Speaker 4: declaration of Clemson is trying to leave the conference. I

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Speaker 4: think that's the subtext. We know that this is eventually

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Speaker 4: where this could head.

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Speaker 1: If you went to the solid wife Kate and said, look,

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Speaker 1: I don't want a divorce, but in the event, should

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Speaker 1: we start talking assets or she probably wouldn't take that

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Speaker 1: as like things are going well.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: We're not interpreting this lawsuit as a sign that everything

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Speaker 4: is just honkey dory between Clemson and the ACC and furthermore,

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Speaker 4: Florida State and the AC. See, there's a lot going

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Speaker 4: on beneath the surface here, but at least within the

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Speaker 4: context of this lawsuit, Clemson is challenging the validity of

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Speaker 4: some of the language that they signed up for.

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Speaker 3: This is obviously continuing a bit of a trend.

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Speaker 4: Florida State's got its lawsuit working through the system, Clemson

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Speaker 4: is now jumping aboard, using some of the same language,

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Speaker 4: going at some of the same points that Florida State

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Speaker 4: is as well.

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Speaker 3: Presumably they are trying.

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Speaker 4: To see what their options are and maybe eventually wind

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Speaker 4: up as a free agent. We're going to find out

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Speaker 4: as much as we can from one of the guys

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Speaker 4: who is always branking Clemson news, Larry Williams from Tiger

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Speaker 4: Illustrated dot com from the Clemson Dubcast.

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Speaker 3: He will be with us here momentarily.

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Speaker 1: To boots on the ground. Tye, give us a.

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Speaker 4: Sense for what's going on on the ground, man, because

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Speaker 4: this is, like, I guess, the latest story now that

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Speaker 4: we're going to have to follow in the world of

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Speaker 4: conference realignment, media rights, college football, tectonic shifts, so on

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Speaker 4: and so forth.

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Speaker 1: This is Part thirty seven of College Football Bummers, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by the Solid Verbal No. It's fascinating, obviously

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Speaker 1: to see how the sausage is made behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: how the gears and pulleys are trying to operate to

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Speaker 1: position as many of the big places for whatever the

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Speaker 1: future holds for the sport. But yes, it is a

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Speaker 1: long line of like, hey, others are making more money.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to be left behind. We see ourselves

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Speaker 1: on even footing as the SEC and Big ten, and

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Speaker 1: so we want ours at the expense of the sport.

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Speaker 1: And it's not limited to Clemson in Florida State, they

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Speaker 1: signed a bad deal. They're trying to get out of

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Speaker 1: that bad deal. And you know what happened with USC

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Speaker 1: on the West coast, it happened with Texas and Oklahoma,

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Speaker 1: with the Big twelve and SEC. It's everybody looking out for,

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Speaker 1: you know, financial security for themselves in the long term,

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Speaker 1: at the expense of we're not sure yet, at the

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Speaker 1: expense of you know, maybe people are loading up because

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Speaker 1: they see a future in which schools are going to

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Speaker 1: have more expenses as pay for play sort of looms

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Speaker 1: in the not so distant future, with players saying look

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Speaker 1: at these billions and billions of dollars and schools saying

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Speaker 1: what if all of these wealthy dry cleaners paid you?

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Speaker 1: And that doesn't seem like it's going to be sustainable.

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Speaker 1: So we have all like this mixing of unsustainable business

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Speaker 1: models coming together and they're all looking at ESPN and

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Speaker 1: Fox to pay the bills, and hopefully ESPN and Fox

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Speaker 1: are okay with all of this sort of chaos and

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Speaker 1: acrimony and wanting to be aligned with it, because obviously

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Speaker 1: college football offer is a ton in the way of

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Speaker 1: TV inventory for a long long time. But yes, we

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Speaker 1: are sort of heading towards the future in which the ACC,

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Speaker 1: if it exists, is going to look very different, in

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Speaker 1: which the sport nationally is going to look very different.

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Speaker 1: This comes on the heels of unequal revenue sharing with

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Speaker 1: the new college football playoff system, that there are certain

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Speaker 1: schools who don't want to be the nicest house on

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Speaker 1: the block, that they'd rather live be amongst nice houses,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem like it's long term great for

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Speaker 1: the sport or is even central to the appeal of

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Speaker 1: the sport. But as things change and things evolve, you know,

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Speaker 1: the worst possible thing you could do would be to

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Speaker 1: stand pat and hope for the best.

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Speaker 3: That's sort of what the PAC twelve did.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of didn't work out great for them, and

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Speaker 4: we'll see what comes of all these lawsuits. Larry, as

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Speaker 4: he said, Boots on the Ground has covered the Clemson

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Speaker 4: beat for a good long time as sort of our

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Speaker 4: go to source for all things Clemson. We'll talk to

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Speaker 4: him momentarily before we get into it. Two bits of housekeeping.

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Speaker 4: I said it on the last episode. I'll say it again.

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Speaker 4: The most important thing you can do for us if

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Speaker 4: you want to support what we're doing. Whatever app you're

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Speaker 4: listening to this on right now, hit subscribe, hit follow,

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Speaker 4: whatever the button is it gives you. Sometimes they change

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Speaker 4: from platform to platform, but that's the most important thing.

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Speaker 4: Hit follow, hit subscribe, sign up for more verbal in

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Speaker 4: your life. We'd appreciate that greatly. If you fashion yourself

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Speaker 4: a bit of a super verball er, a super fan

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Speaker 4: of what we're doing, you can go on out to

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Speaker 4: verbolers dot com. V E R B A L L

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Speaker 4: e r s dot com. That is our Patreon. We've

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Speaker 4: got a five dollars tier, ten dollars tier that helps

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Speaker 4: Dan and I more than we can put into words.

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Speaker 1: And if they're a super duper fan, I guess find

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Speaker 1: ties house stand outside of it, don't do hold up

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Speaker 1: a boom box. I'll say anything and play Peter Gabriel's

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Speaker 1: in your Eyes on Ty's birthday.

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Speaker 2: We love that.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, sure Easter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that would be Kate would love that

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Please don't do that. Don't do that, all right, Please

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Speaker 1: don't do that?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 4: Dan joining us now our good friend from Tiger Illustrated

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Speaker 4: dot com of course, the Clemson Dubcast. He is the

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Speaker 4: foremost authority on all things Clemson football.

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Speaker 3: Very pleased to welcome back to.

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Speaker 4: The show, mister Larry Williams. Sir, how goes it going well?

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Speaker 2: And look at him off face. I'm reminded of why

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Speaker 2: my decision to have my own podcast as audio only.

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Speaker 2: Man's brilliant.

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Speaker 4: Be kind, be kind. It is great to have you back.

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Speaker 4: We always appreciate your your wisdom. However we can get

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Speaker 4: it audio, video or both. We wanted to have you

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Speaker 4: back on obviously to shed some light on this story

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Speaker 4: that you, among others, broke yesterday.

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Speaker 3: We're recording this on Wednesday.

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Speaker 4: That Clemson is now also suing the ACC, so I

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Speaker 4: guess just to set the stage for people listening to

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Speaker 4: this at home, Florida State has been very outspoken in

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Speaker 4: its opposition to the ACC grant of rights, pretty outspoken

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Speaker 4: about its desire to get out of the ACC altogether.

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Speaker 4: They've already got their own lawsuit, that they're working through

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Speaker 4: the system that's challenging the ACC and the grant of

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Speaker 4: rights and the exit fees, so on and so forth.

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Speaker 4: Is it fair to say that Clemson has been supportive

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Speaker 4: of those efforts, though much more quiet about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And you know, that's a fascinating layer to this

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Speaker 2: is the contrast in the way the two schools have

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Speaker 2: handled this, and not saying that either not picking one

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Speaker 2: side as being right or the best way. But I

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Speaker 2: do think that the perceptions that came from oh gosh,

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Speaker 2: the last year plus, I mean, because it goes back.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking back to last year's Spring meetings when that

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Speaker 2: you go into the Spring meetings and and Florida State

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Speaker 2: is being very loud about its misgivings with the future

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Speaker 2: in the ACC. And then you fast forward to August

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Speaker 2: when they had their big livestream conference with the Board

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Speaker 2: of Trustees and other administrators, and then you fast forward

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Speaker 2: to December when they actually did the deed. The perceptions

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Speaker 2: that come from that sort of disparity in level of

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Speaker 2: public angst, it created the impression that, Okay, Florida State

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Speaker 2: is most enthusiastic, most serious about getting out of the

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Speaker 2: a SEC whereas Clemson, which is more buttoned up, is

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Speaker 2: less serious about it, which all along from the people

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Speaker 2: I talked to at Clemson, I sort of knew and

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Speaker 2: and and conveyed to my subscribers that like, look, this

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Speaker 2: is don't get the wrong idea about Clemson's choice of messaging.

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Speaker 2: They are just as serious, maybe more. And I should

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Speaker 2: point to last August when I guess it was like

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Speaker 2: a two week run up to the actual expansion vote

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Speaker 2: at one point, according to the people I talked to,

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Speaker 2: as they were deliberating behind the scenes and and and

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Speaker 2: and the accs, certain ACC schools are trying to get

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Speaker 2: people on board to have the uh the enough of

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Speaker 2: a vote to vote in Stanford and cal and SMU.

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Speaker 2: At one point Clemson was the only one, the only

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Speaker 2: descenter through at one point in that process. Of course,

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Speaker 2: Florida State came back around, and of course North Carolina

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Speaker 2: was also the third dis center. But the revelation to me,

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Speaker 2: the most fascinating part to me was you it takes guts,

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Speaker 2: It takes some real seriousness and your convictions to stick

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Speaker 2: to your guns on a vote like that, because you

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Speaker 2: guys know, I mean, every whether it's a board of

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Speaker 2: trustees or any governing body or NFL or whatever you

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Speaker 2: want everything to be in public unanimous. Yes, we all

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Speaker 2: agree on this, and you know you hash out your

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Speaker 2: problems in private. So for Clemson to to stay the

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Speaker 2: course on that, you know, a charter member going against

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Speaker 2: the grain, I mean that spoke volumes to be and

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Speaker 2: it still does. And so I guess, getting back to

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Speaker 2: your question, I think now only you know as of yesterday,

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Speaker 2: does it does it truly come into light just among

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Speaker 2: surface level sort of viewers and readers and followers of

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Speaker 2: college football that oh, oh crap, yeah, Jupson really really

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Speaker 2: is serious about this.

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Speaker 4: So even if there was this undercurrent of seriousness to you,

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Speaker 4: to others who follow the program to the degree that

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Speaker 4: you do, I think for the rest of us, this

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Speaker 4: news yesterday felt like it came out of left field.

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Speaker 4: It was a surprising bombshell in that I don't know

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Speaker 4: if people saw it coming. We obviously understand why it's happening.

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Speaker 4: Did you have a heads up, did you have any

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Speaker 4: inkling that this was coming, that there was something going

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Speaker 4: on behind the scenes, or was it as surprising to

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Speaker 4: you as it was the rest of us.

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Speaker 2: On a specific sort of level of in the moment

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Speaker 2: yesterday that I when I first saw it or first

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Speaker 2: heard about it. Was it a surprise, Yes, and I

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Speaker 2: have a heads up on that specific Tuesday morning, March whatever. No.

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Speaker 2: In fact, this is wild the way it came to

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Speaker 2: light to me and to subscribers of our website. Somebody

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Speaker 2: on our message board, a subscriber hosted the PDF of

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Speaker 2: the legal filing. And I'm sitting there and I actually

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Speaker 2: about five minutes, ten minutes earlier, ten minutes for that,

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Speaker 2: I had a direct message from another subscriber. It said, Larry,

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Speaker 2: I hope you're not busy today, because you're going to be.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have a lot of work to do. And

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Speaker 2: that's all this subscriber said. I had no previous relationship

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Speaker 2: with the subscriber, and of course it's just a handle,

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Speaker 2: so it's not their.

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Speaker 3: Name right now, you know who it is, right right?

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Speaker 2: Can you please just give me a little more clarity here.

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Speaker 2: So in the midst of that, as I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: track that down, I get on my message board and

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Speaker 2: I see the PDF and a subscriber has basically broken

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Speaker 2: the story on our message board.

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Speaker 3: That is wild.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Suit. So then as I'm working, and this is

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Speaker 2: you know, this is inside baseball, but I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of people enjoy this type of thing just here

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Speaker 2: and sort of behind the scene. So I see these

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Speaker 2: two items, and so of course I'm working to confirm it.

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Speaker 2: And when you've been doing this a long time, your

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Speaker 2: main goal, good God, please don't get this wrong, right,

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Speaker 2: And so I'm literally you're thinking of all the worst

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Speaker 2: case scenarios of how could this not be true? Well,

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Speaker 2: it could be that some crazy fan came up with

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Speaker 2: his own PDF just as a practical joke. You know,

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Speaker 2: in today's world, they are.

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Speaker 3: These fans do exist. Can't confirm that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean people have fallen to the trap

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Speaker 2: on Twitter all the time, with fake Adam Schefter and

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Speaker 2: fake Ian Rappaport and all that stuff. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: just like, I've got to have true, you know, rock

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Speaker 2: solid confirmation. So then I talked to a higher up

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Speaker 2: at Clemson who said, yeah, we got the email. The

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Speaker 2: trustees got the email this morning at nine am. So

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Speaker 2: that's enough, you know, to go on. But okay, getting

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Speaker 2: to the general you know, apart from just yesterday morning,

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Speaker 2: I've thought since late August that this was common and

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Speaker 2: in fact, I really, based on my read of the

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Speaker 2: situation back in August and September, I thought something could

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Speaker 2: happen in October, I really did. It didn't, And I

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Speaker 2: think a part of that was the ACC expanded, and

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Speaker 2: so they there was a lot of red take that

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Speaker 2: just procedurally structurally they had the ACC had to go

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Speaker 2: through to incorporate these three new members. But most important,

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Speaker 2: based on my read of the situation, was to finalize

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Speaker 2: the revenue shares, the school by school revenue shares, which

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Speaker 2: also included the new incentive based success formula or whatever

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Speaker 2: it's going to start, I believe in twenty twenty for

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Speaker 2: twenty five. So it stands to reason that if you're

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Speaker 2: a Florida state or Clemson and you're you know, close

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Speaker 2: to taking an ACC at court, you'd be in your

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Speaker 2: best interest to go ahead and bake in the financial

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Speaker 2: arrangements moving forward, because it's not like you're not sue

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Speaker 2: in the ACC and saying we're leaving, effect of immediately,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna you're going to remain in the conference during

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Speaker 2: this court battle. And so I think that was probably

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Speaker 2: a part of the delay. And honestly, so many things

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Speaker 2: have happened just in the last two or three months,

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Speaker 2: most recently with the college football playoff revenue distributions. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think things are going to start happening. I mean

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Speaker 2: we're used to this realignment stuff happening at kind of

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Speaker 2: a glacial pace. I think that's over. I think the

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Speaker 2: velocity is going to be a lot higher. And I

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Speaker 2: think that as I'm explaining the delay, the fact that

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Speaker 2: it came well after I expected, I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of that stuff probably had a lot to do with it.

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Speaker 2: The timing out of left field probably seems so from afar,

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Speaker 2: and I can only speculate as to the to why

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Speaker 2: they chose yesterday to do it. You know, one factor

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Speaker 2: is just the day before those playoff revenue distributions that

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Speaker 2: was finalized. Another another speculative. Nobody has told me this directly,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just sort of throwing this out there. The

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Speaker 2: ACC is currently he not only involved in the in

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Speaker 2: the in the NCAA basketball tournament, but preparing for its

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Speaker 2: own hearing with Florida State in Mecklenburg County on Friday.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it's like, Okay, they're so bogged down with that,

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Speaker 2: you know, we can hit them with this now. But

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Speaker 2: another part, with the biggest part, was Florida State tipped

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Speaker 2: off the ACC. If you guys, you guys definitely remember

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Speaker 2: Florida State is bound by I guess probably stricter sunshine

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Speaker 2: laws public disclosure laws in the state of Florida then

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Speaker 2: maybe exists in stay of South Carolina. And so they

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Speaker 2: had to provide twenty four hours notice of their meeting,

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Speaker 2: and so that gave the ACC the tip off and

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to file its own sort of preemptive lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: which is a big deal in the jurisdictional battle, which

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Speaker 2: is that's going to be fought here starting Friday, and

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Speaker 2: that was.

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Speaker 4: Going to be my point, Like we've got now these

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Speaker 4: separate lawsuits. Florida States is separate from Clemson's, from whoever

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Speaker 4: else might choose to file suit Lord does there could

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Speaker 4: be others. So what we should note about this for

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Speaker 4: people listening at home wondering what is this all about.

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Speaker 4: Clemson is not stating in this lawsuit that they're going

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Speaker 4: to leave the ACC but obviously we know better. This

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Speaker 4: is a clear signal that they're at least kicking the

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Speaker 4: tires on it, they're thinking about it, they're looking at

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Speaker 4: things like this exit this grant of rights, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: wondering what does it take to get out of this.

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Speaker 4: We have described I guess this this suit by clem

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Speaker 4: said generally as exploring the validity of that exit fee,

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Speaker 4: which is huge, exploring the validity of the grant of

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Speaker 4: rights which runs through I guess twenty thirty six. It's

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Speaker 4: it's binding for a good long time, even you know

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Speaker 4: at time of recording, what is it about this suit

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Speaker 4: from your perspective, from the perspective of your subscribers, from

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Speaker 4: just a perspective of college football fans that you find

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Speaker 4: most interesting?

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Speaker 2: The most interesting part probably relates to the departure from

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Speaker 2: the more buttoned up style of messaging. You know, before

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Speaker 2: we had to sort of read between the lines with

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Speaker 2: what the ad said about Clemson's future, what the president said. Well,

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Speaker 2: now it's all out of yogan. Now we see things

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Speaker 2: like it's the language using in a lawsuit, which is

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Speaker 2: natural in a lawsuit. Strong language that's at the top,

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Speaker 2: but sort of fundamentally, I think the most interesting and

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Speaker 2: important parts of these two lawsuits is what Florida State

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Speaker 2: chose to publicize in its lawsuit in December, and those

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Speaker 2: matters involved the ACC's contracts with ESPN. Now last fall,

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Speaker 2: before the before Florida State filed this lawsuit, I was

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Speaker 2: pretty aware that there are some things in these contracts.

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Speaker 2: It's not just the grant of rights. Is what I

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Speaker 2: was told at the time, that that Clemson's lawyers and

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Speaker 2: Florida State's lawyers and lawyers from other schools were going

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Speaker 2: to Greensboro and Charlotte to inspect like that's I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember when that news first sort of came out,

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Speaker 2: that that that lawyers from these schools were making fairly

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Speaker 2: regular trips to Greensboro to look at these documents. But

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Speaker 2: everybody assumed, oh, they're going to look at the granted rights.

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Speaker 2: But the real story, to me at least, was that

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Speaker 2: they were going to look at the ACC's contracts with ESPN.

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Speaker 2: Those are the parts that the ACC guards, like with

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Speaker 2: a pretty extraordinary secrecy, which I think that in itself

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Speaker 2: was a little weird.

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Speaker 4: It's a little bit like a plot out of like

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Speaker 4: National Treasure, Right, it's a little weird.

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Speaker 1: You can only see the contract with gloves in a

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Speaker 1: very specific room with supervisors.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's really what it was. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't think. What I didn't expect was Florida State

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Speaker 2: to unload all that in it's in its file. And

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Speaker 2: so I remember in the in the day or two

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Speaker 2: after Florida State's filing, I'm reading and rereading it, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, and I couldn't believe that there weren't more

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Speaker 2: national media folks making a bigger deal out of two things. One,

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Speaker 2: wait a minute, there's a deadline and all this is

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Speaker 2: what Florida State alleges. I guess, I guess I have

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Speaker 2: to say provide that disclaimer, but I don't think it's inaccurate.

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Speaker 2: Actually I know it's not an accurate. The two things,

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, an ESPN has a February of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five deadline to renegotiate it's deal with the ACC.

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Speaker 2: That's like at that time, it was you know, fourteen

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Speaker 2: months away. Now it's ten months away or whatever, like

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Speaker 2: that is a big deal. The second is, wait a minute.

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Speaker 2: Back in twenty sixteen, when the ACC and ESPN were

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Speaker 2: we're really pushing the schools to sign up for twenty years,

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Speaker 2: ESPN only signed up for half of that. Like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I'm not saying this is this oak

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Speaker 2: and gun, and this is how they're going to get

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Speaker 2: out of it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I have never stepped foot in a law school, right,

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Speaker 2: it's just usual common sense and the and and some

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Speaker 2: deductive reasoning. Okay, I've detected some strong legal confidence from

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Speaker 2: Clemson for a while now that they are going to

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Speaker 2: be able to get out of this a lot more

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Speaker 2: easily than the term state, right, like five hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty million dollars. Oh, and then now there's this from

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Speaker 2: Florida State. That's a like making that connection. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to be you know, you don't have

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Speaker 2: to be a master of the powers of deduction to

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Speaker 2: to put two and two together. And then yesterday in

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Speaker 2: Clemson's lawsuit, a lot of the espn ACC stuff is redacted.

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Speaker 2: So again like, I don't know every layer of this,

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Speaker 2: every all the important details, but I do feel like

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Speaker 2: I've followed it pretty closely over the last six months

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Speaker 2: or so, and I don't need to. I guess your

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Speaker 2: question was what the what was the most interesting part

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Speaker 2: of the of Clemson's lawsuit? And I just think the

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Speaker 2: most interesting part of this whole thing that I want

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Speaker 2: to learn more about is those two things the Florida

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Speaker 2: State revealed and then presumably Clemson blacked out, uh redacted

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Speaker 2: and it's filing yesterday, Dan, we should we should.

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Speaker 4: Sort of make it our mission to figure out more

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Speaker 4: while everyone's focused on the legal leads to.

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Speaker 1: Go to law school me and you know, we're not.

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Speaker 4: We're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're going

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Speaker 4: to pass the bar. We should figure.

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Speaker 3: Out more about the security apparatus Guardian.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Do you have to be Catherine Zeta Jones

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Speaker 1: slinking over and under the laser security protection because I'm

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Speaker 1: willing to put on that cat suit.

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Speaker 2: Ty.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've been hammering the core man. Here's my

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Speaker 1: question from a non legal perspective, but a strategic question.

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Speaker 1: Is there an element to this that you feel like

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Speaker 1: could be? And I guess this is a more cynical

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Speaker 1: way of life looking at this. This is an attempt

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Speaker 1: to continue or to start to flood the legal zone

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Speaker 1: that Florida State offered this lawsuit up, even though people

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Speaker 1: say that the deal is sort of ironclad and there

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Speaker 1: is this like crazy exit fee and now Clemson is

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Speaker 1: getting involved. Certainly, Florida State and Clemson have been the

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Speaker 1: two biggest winning brands in the conference lately that you know,

436
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: Dabbo's obviously a huge name, Florida State with the success

437
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: it's had recently, and a recent national champion as well.

438
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: That this is more about not necessarily publicity, but sort

439
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: of bogging things down within the ACC and ESPN, and

440
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: certainly there are other enormous brands within the conference. North

441
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: Carolina is the one that's mentioned the most, but that

442
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: if you start playing in mud more and more legally,

443
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: that it's eventually going to force somebody's hand because they

444
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: don't want to sit in courts, they don't want to

445
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: keep paying lawyers. That Clemson doesn't necessarily or Florida State

446
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily think that like yep, a judge is going

447
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: to come in and bang his or her gavel and say,

448
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: all right, everybody's free, everybody's cool. But that this is

449
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: a very specific, like wear them down strategy.

450
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: I would think that has to be a part of it,

451
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: particularly given what I talked about a minute ago, that

452
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: February twenty five deadline. I mean, from my understanding of

453
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: negotiations between conferences and dead works, and I'm not the

454
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: expert on that, but ten months out like normally you're

455
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: very much in the thick of that as a conference,

456
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: right between your conference and a network, and like, I

457
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 2: have no idea what ESPN is going to do. But

458
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: if you're ESPN, you're looking at at the ACC and saying, well,

459
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: you got one, now two of your members that are

460
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: suing you. So if I'm Clemson in Florida State, certainly

461
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: that has to be I would consider that an advantage,

462
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 2: you know. And the sort of the dual nature of it,

463
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: the fact that uh, the a SEC is having a

464
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 2: fight on two different fronts, I would imagine it's pretty important.

465
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: And there the language, A lot of the language is different,

466
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: prob I would imagine strategically, I mean, we know that

467
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 2: Clemson and Florida State have been working together for for

468
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: quite a while. Now. I want to make an important

469
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: distinction here because I think, uh, you know, the immediate

470
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: social media reactions yesterday were, yep, Clemson in Florida State

471
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: packaged deal. They're both going to the to the Big ten.

472
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: I've never gotten that sense that that they're working together

473
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 2: on that, you know, that closely to where you know

474
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: they're both gonna theoretically get out of the deal and

475
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: then and then go together somewhere. You know, I thought

476
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: for a while, honestly since last summer, that there's no

477
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: way Florida State goes to the SEC, in part because

478
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: of the way they have handled things publicly, with the

479
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: saber rattling and the you know, I mean again not

480
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: saying their approach that the wrong way, but if you're

481
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: the SEC, you really want to bring somebody in who,

482
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: at the first sign of some strife, is going to

483
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: take everything public. So in that manner, and I know

484
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm probably coming off as a Clemson homer here, but

485
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: I'll exectularly believe it. I think Clemson has gone about

486
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: it in a way that is probably more attractive to

487
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: a new conference, whether it be SEC or Big ten,

488
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: because it's like, hey, we handle our business, you know,

489
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: in a theoretically classy way, and we don't really air

490
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: a lot of Darry laundry. But it's in terms of

491
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: just bogging down you know, that process. Yeah, that has

492
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: to be a part of it, and it also should

493
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: be pointed out, like the legal confidence that I've talked about,

494
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: you know, all this swagger that Florida State has shown,

495
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, that's one side of it. You know, Like

496
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a lead pipe lot. I

497
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: don't even know if Clemson believes that it's a lead

498
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: pipe lot that they're able to get out of this

499
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: under the terms they want to. And it could very

500
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: well be that a judge tells them both, well, guys,

501
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: y'all sign up for this.

502
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: You know, sorry, you signed a bad contract and now

503
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: you have to serve it out.

504
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the root of this is Maryland leaving the

505
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: ACC back in twelve or whenever that was, and they

506
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: only had to ended up paying like thirty million, and

507
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: every school in the ACC, including Clinton in Florida State,

508
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: is like, we gotta come we gotta come up with

509
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: some sarper teeth to this. We gotta come up with

510
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: more punitive penalties. And so yeah, y'all were both of

511
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: y'all helped come up with this side. I not saying

512
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 2: there aren't some great, you know, arguments and nuances to it,

513
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: given where everybody is now in twenty twenty four compared

514
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: to where things were when the grant of rights was signed,

515
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: But I mean I would think that that is. You know,

516
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: we've talked about the advantages, the theoretical advantages for Clemson

517
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: in Florida State. I would imagine that one of the

518
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: ACC's advantages is, hey, you're on are the ones who

519
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: chose to do this, so.

520
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: And we're going down the line here. But like, okay,

521
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: let's say Clemson Florida State. Let's say the ACC ends

522
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: up deteriorating, disintegrating, whatever, dissolving they need homes. You mentioned

523
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: Clemson going about its business in perhaps a more attractive way.

524
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: Florida State has been more public, has been more aggressive.

525
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: The SEC is in South Carolina, the SEC is in Florida,

526
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: the SEC is in the Eastern time zone for TV purposes,

527
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: and the Big Ten is in the Eastern time zone

528
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: for DV purposes. So it's not just a matter of leaving,

529
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: it's figuring out who wants you, what's your plan? If

530
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: Clemson and Florida State were to go to either the

531
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: Big Ten or SEC, presumably unless ESPN or Fox said yea, yeah,

532
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: here's you know, eighty more million dollars a year to

533
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: cover everything. If that doesn't happen, then that means that

534
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: we're having SEC and Big Ten teams voting to accept

535
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: teams that would lessen their payout because they felt like

536
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: long term it was too attractive to not include Florida

537
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: State or Clemson, and certainly once again North Carolina seems

538
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 1: to be that like big Bear that hasn't been as

539
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: public right now because of you know, academics, basketball, some

540
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: football success whatever. So what's plan C? What's plan C?

541
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: If both of those conferences are like, hey, good for you,

542
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: We're actually good right now. Is there some sort of

543
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: like we're just going to rebuild something new with terms

544
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: we like better that have more upside? What is the plan?

545
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: See?

546
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: Or do you feel like Clemson and Florida State are

547
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: acting because they have the most confident assurances from somebody.

548
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: Plan C would be the ads, the a d's presidents,

549
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: maybe even some board trustee members at both Florida State

550
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: and Clemson, uh that are locked your doors because the

551
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: pitchforks right, you're gonna, They're gonna, You're faithful, it's gonna.

552
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: Is there is there a micro acc right that? Like

553
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: I think that it's currently like the payouts says, you

554
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: have to have at least eight teams to be considered

555
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: to be a conference in the College Football Playoff? Is

556
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: there a situation because I think it what was it

557
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: seven schools before that we're having the meetings that we're

558
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: sort of thinking about, like how do we get out

559
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: of this?

560
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 2: Right?

561
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: It's you know, North Carolina and NC State, the Virginia schools, Clemson,

562
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: Florida State, Miami. If if I miss anybody, I apologize, Like,

563
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: is there a world in which it's broken up advantageously

564
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: that though you know, eight or nine schools say all right,

565
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: we want this number. We feel like by getting a

566
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: little bit small or we can we're confident and we

567
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: can get like maybe a short term deal at forty

568
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: four million or something like that, that that would be

569
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: acceptable with better terms than what the ACC is giving

570
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: these teams.

571
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, there are so many unanswerable questions, right of course.

572
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: No, I just want you to speculate reckulars, recklessly. That's

573
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: what I want from you in this moment.

574
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I just last night I read the latest

575
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: article from Ross Dellinger. Yahoo's just plugged in as as

576
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: anybody on a lot of this national stuff. I mean,

577
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: nobody can predict what things are going to look like, right,

578
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: I Mean, we can all agree major major change is

579
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: upon us, but it's just almost impossible to predict what

580
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: it looks like. And I think dad gets to what

581
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: you know. Some of the mistaken sort of perceptions people

582
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: have of these lawsuits is, oh, well, they're suing to

583
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: get out of the ACC. I think it's maybe another

584
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: way to view it. Particulation from Clemson's point of view,

585
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: is there. It's it's it's more accurate to say I

586
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: think that they're they're going to Core to try to

587
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 2: become a free agent, right instead of we're definitely leaving

588
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: the a SEC, even though that's certainly the way it feels.

589
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: They have to get out of the a CEC. But

590
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 2: who knows what things are going to look like in

591
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: in three years, and so just to go back to

592
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: plan C and what if I have some of the

593
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: same questions you guys do, like, Okay, well if they

594
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: do extricate themselves, Okay, where do they end up and

595
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: what does it look quite because you're talking about diminished

596
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: revenue shares and all that stuff, and the entanglements of

597
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: the you know, states of South Carolina, Florida where you

598
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: have your arrival. That is not a big fan of

599
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: you having the same advantages that you have, let alone

600
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: the rest of the conference taking a lesser share. Man,

601
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: I don't have the answers to those questions. But I

602
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: do believe that starting in Texas and Oklahoma that that

603
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 2: that was twenty one right News, that was the big

604
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: that was the big one. Clemson in Florida State, I

605
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: believe that's when it really started for both of them

606
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 2: on Okay, we're taking our heads out of the sand

607
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 2: and we're gonna start thinking proactively and aggressively, and that

608
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: means a lot of leg work. You know, I can't

609
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: talk specifically, well, I'm not informed enough to talk specifically

610
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: about what that led were entailed. But in Clemson's president,

611
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: you have Jim Clements, who is a he has been

612
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: through the wars, the realignment wars because he was at

613
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: West Virginia before back when when when they went to

614
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: the to the Big twelve. You have Graham Nef who

615
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 2: is very savvy, and you have a board of trustees

616
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: who I think is very smart about it about hiring

617
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: the right people and letting them do their jobs. And

618
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: so they haven't been very meddlesome, I guess. So I

619
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: would find it hard to believe that Clepson specifically is

620
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: taking this step if it didn't have not assurances, not

621
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: a wink, wink, nod, nod, but not that if it

622
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: didn't have a good feel for the situation. Now, could

623
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: that mean the Big Ten they have a pretty good

624
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: feeling that at the very least baking it up in

625
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: the Big Ten. And so maybe in their minds. Again,

626
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm just throwing this out there. Okay, Well, then you know,

627
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: then the se if the Big Ten's about the pounce

628
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: and grab Clipson and multiple other teams schools, perhaps then

629
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: that's when the SEC in a territorial move that it

630
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: feels like it just has to make even with the

631
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 2: Protestations of South Carolina, Florida and others lesser cut all that,

632
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: it's the geographical game, folks. We have to we simply

633
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: have to walk up our borders, so to speak. I

634
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: do believe I think some others, including Andy Staples, have

635
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: have advanced this quite a bit that the future of

636
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: of of of college football is certainly headed toward. It's

637
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: headed away from the market driven type thing that that

638
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: made you know, Boston College of Commodity for the ACCA

639
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: back when in Syracuse and all that, and his head

640
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: is sharply toward brands, the helmet games. You know, we're

641
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 2: gonna obviously we're gonna have a lot more of them

642
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: during the regular season that we're used to. It's hard

643
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: for me to picture the Spear and the Tiger Paul

644
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 2: not being a part of that. Now, how are we

645
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: going to get there? Man? If I could tell you

646
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: that I'd be, I'd be at a different place right

647
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 2: now and making a lot more money.

648
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 4: Well, so, look, you're a reputable reporter. You obviously don't

649
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 4: want to speculate on things that you don't know. Let's

650
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 4: do our best here to preserve that, and let's put

651
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 4: your subscribers. Let's put the Clemson fan base in the

652
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 4: hot seat for a minute, because I know you're plugged

653
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: in on that level too.

654
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: There are two sides to this coin.

655
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 4: On one side of it is college football as we

656
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 4: have come to know and love it over many years,

657
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: at least from a conference standpoint, From a geographical tribal

658
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 4: standpoint that we know drives this thing. That aspect of

659
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 4: college football over the last couple of years has almost

660
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 4: completely disintegrated, and that's a bummer. On the other, if

661
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: we're realistic about where things stand right now, if you

662
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: are not keeping up financially, you are in effect not

663
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 4: competing on the national level, and So there's that push

664
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 4: pull between those two things that we have to grapple

665
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 4: with as fans every single day. You are plugged into

666
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: the Clemson fan base. Assuming Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina

667
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: aliens from AFAR overthrow the grant of rights in the

668
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: ACC and suddenly this free agency situation that you described

669
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 4: is a reality. What do Clemson people want out of this?

670
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 4: Do they want to join the Big Ten? Do they

671
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: want to join the SEC? Do they want to be independent?

672
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: Like? What what vibes.

673
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: Are you picking up from your form the Missouri Valley Conference,

674
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: the Conference of the Future.

675
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: Tie, Like, what what is the game here? What do

676
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: people want?

677
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: Clearly either the SEC or the Big Ten? There's there's

678
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: there's ongoing debate, and there has been. I would probably

679
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: say that a majority would prefer the SEC. Right, I

680
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: don't think there's a wrong answer.

681
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: Honestly, it's just more money to keep up with the

682
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, the in crowd.

683
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: Well, there's more money, but it's also who you are,

684
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 2: right like Clemson fans. Another part of this is Clemson fans.

685
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 2: It's not just keeping up and and and your survival

686
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: and being in that upper tier. It's also screw the ACC.

687
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 3: They hate it, right, I mean.

688
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: They hate it, like, not all of them, of course,

689
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: but the large majority. Man the thought of thought of

690
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: Clemson cruising out of court with a verdict they that

691
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: they want and the ACC in flames and the review mirror.

692
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: I mean they love that, you know, because I mean

693
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 2: this goes back decades and decades back to them. I mean,

694
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: first of all, it goes back to just the roots

695
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: of the ACC is basketball. That's their DNA Clemson DNA football.

696
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: Clinton has been good in basketball. Occasionally, Clemson feels like

697
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 2: it's been screwed by the ACC on some and some

698
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: basketball games and in general. Also in the eighties early eighties,

699
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: Clemson gets slapped with probation. ACC has an opportunity to

700
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: sort of give them a break. Well, the ACC like

701
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: slaps another year on and I mean people remember that,

702
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: you know, like that's a generational DNA thing. And so

703
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 2: to me or my sort of feel for it, it's

704
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 2: not just the practical and the economical, it's also that

705
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: it's the tribal Clemson. Clemson has been a part of

706
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: the a CEC. Clemson has really enriched itself in a

707
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 2: lot of ways from its relationship with the a CC.

708
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: But bottom line, a lot of Clemson fans are just

709
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: screw that conference. I'm ready to go. And Clemson has

710
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: always been known as this one of the schools, one

711
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: of the few schools in the ACC looks like an

712
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 2: SEC school that acts like an SEC school, and most

713
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: of that relates to football and the passion for it.

714
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: When is somebody gonna ask Dabbo about this and what's

715
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: he going to say?

716
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: They they're on spring break right now, and so let's see,

717
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: they presume spring practice next week, and I don't know

718
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: which day Devo's available, but I will go ahead. I

719
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: didn't even put some money on this as the as

720
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: the response, he'll say, Oh, man, I don't eat. I'm so.

721
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 2: I just I'm focused on what I'm doing. Man as

722
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: people are way above my head, and man, I'll just

723
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 2: I just I just let them make those decisions and whatever.

724
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: I but I will say, I feel good about Clemson

725
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: and we're gonna end up in a great spot. But

726
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: I don't really that's below my putty grade.

727
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: You are fluent in Dabos speak, I'm sure at this point.

728
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 4: So we're gonna hold you to that. When we get

729
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 4: a quote from him, we'll reach back out, was I was?

730
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: I not told though by Dabbos specifically that they love

731
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: that the identity of this school is the rest of y'all.

732
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: They like being the underdogs on the smaller bus. Right,

733
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: So shouldn't Clemson just sort of steer into like making

734
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: less money and just grinding it out as an underdog, right?

735
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: That would be Dabo's thing.

736
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I got news for you, was nothing that

737
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: sec There will be plenty of opportunity for them to be.

738
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 1: Good. Good guy's comment, Dabble must be just beside himself

739
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: that money is taking over college football, right.

740
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: Just an idea for y'all. If Debo does give somewhat

741
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: close to that response, maybe you can maybe you can

742
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: do dueling side by side yep, west side uh videos.

743
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: If he doesn't, then just forget about it.

744
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: You should you could teach a graduate level course in

745
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: dabbo at this point, like you could get like a

746
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: foreign language credit to some seniors. It'd be great. I'm

747
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: in Larry Williams, thank you so much. Tell everybody where

748
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: they can find you and your work and your podcast,

749
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: because obviously you're on the ground there in South Carolina.

750
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: As as everything develops.

751
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find me at Tiger Illustrated dot com.

752
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: We're part of the Rivals Network, and starting yesterday and

753
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: through today in the next few days, we're going to

754
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: be hitting this pretty hard, just because there are so

755
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: many layers to it. There's so much context to the

756
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: overall story, and you know, we've been following it sort

757
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 2: of behind the scenes for the last six months, just

758
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 2: sort of filling up our notebooks with things that probably

759
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: we couldn't write in the moment during some of those

760
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: times that now lend a lot of context and color

761
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: and understanding to what is going on. So that's the

762
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 2: main that's the main option location for for a lot

763
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: of the realignment stuff. Podcast is the Clemson Dubcast and

764
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: it's on all the all the typical platforms we have

765
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: right now. The latest interviews with Sad turnip Seed, who

766
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: was a key figure in Clemson's behind the scenes Yeah, yeah,

767
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: with all the recruiting apparatus and the branding and social

768
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: media and facilities. Of course, he went to Oklahoma with

769
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 2: Brent Vinnables, but just over the last year has come

770
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: back to Clemson and he's no longer involved in athletics.

771
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: He's mainly in real estate now, so great conversation sort

772
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 2: of going down memory lane and so so yeah, those

773
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: are and then Larry Williams t I at Larry Williams

774
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: t I on Twitter. I don't spend a ton of

775
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: time there just because it makes my brainpool.

776
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah crazy. By the way, how are the how are

777
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: the spring practice vibes? How are the the Clemson Like

778
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: obviously spring practice isn't over, but like, how are the

779
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: vibes right now at Clemson? With who's back, who's not back?

780
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: Changes made on the staff? What are what are the

781
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's optimistic in the spring, but what sense

782
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: do you get for how things are looking inside right now?

783
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 2: The vibes are good, like you said, they always are

784
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: this time of the year, but there probably more so

785
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: now and legitimately so because Dabo made a couple of

786
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: tough decisions during the during the after the season, after

787
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: the regular season, made two more changes and brought in

788
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: Matt Luke offensive our offensive line coach and hell over

789
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: recruiter as he's already shown, and Chris Rump brought him

790
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: from the NFL to coach defensive ends. The sort of

791
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: big picture of view of this program right now, as

792
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: they're trying to get back. One of the most fascinating

793
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: parts is Debo adapting, making changes and sort of going

794
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: away from the from the pome grown that he really

795
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: believed in and maybe went too far on in some respects.

796
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: His last four hires Nick Eason back in twenty two

797
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: pulled him from Auburn. He was in the NFL for

798
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: a long time. Defensive tackles coach Helliver recruiter Gary Riley

799
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: of course was the big splash last year, and then

800
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: Luke and Rump. I think the biggest thing that those

801
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: those four brings just a voice to more powerful voices,

802
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: more confident voices, more authority, I guess you could say.

803
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: And so you know, I just think. And then recruiting wise,

804
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: Clemson continues to kill it, which that's remarkable because you know,

805
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: for a few years there, it was like a lot

806
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: of the common conversation was, but Davos too stubborn. He's

807
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: he's against the portal and he's against nil, and so

808
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: that's there's no way they're going to be able to

809
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: keep up. I'm not so sure, like because talent wise,

810
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 2: they they're up there, I think, And so I think

811
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: if he's able to get them back to sort of

812
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: that elite air. It'd be a hell of a story

813
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: because I can't think you guys probably have a better

814
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: recall than me. But can you recall a school with

815
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 2: one coach who has gotten to the mountaintop on a

816
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: sustained level, had a big dip, and then gotten back

817
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 2: that same coach. I can't really sort.

818
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: Of Harbaugh, he didn't win the national title, but obviously

819
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: he had the dip, the twenty twenty dip, especially that

820
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: like had to restructure his contract. Right, they get to

821
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: a huge place where they're going to like, you know,

822
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: new Yar six type games, but then they take the dip.

823
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: But then obviously he you know, hires you know, new coordinators,

824
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: overhauls the staff, and they certainly turn things around. Say

825
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: what you will about whatever the accusations are off the field,

826
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: but I get I guess that's the most recent one

827
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: right where you're just like you're able to turn around

828
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: the aircraft carrier.

829
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, But were they considered a legit championship contender before

830
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: pre twenty the.

831
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: I mean twenty sixteen, they were probably Look, the roster

832
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: wasn't there to compete with Clemson Alabama, but they were

833
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: like what they would consider to be a bad spot

834
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: away from beating Ohio State and you know, ending up

835
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: in the playoff. So no, they had they probably had

836
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: championship caliber defenses or largely, but no, I'm trying to

837
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: think of of somebody who would who had it, lost

838
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: it and got it back. Ty, is there anybody that

839
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: comes to mind in like recent you know, maybe on

840
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: a slightly smile level, Harba, that's all I could think of.

841
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean maybe if Lincoln Riley can get his

842
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 4: act together at USC he's at least been in the

843
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 4: playoff before, right, but probably nothing to the extent of

844
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 4: Dabbo and Clemson. It would be a story, be a

845
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 4: great story, frankly, of adopting with the times and kind of,

846
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 4: you know, figuring out a way to kind of navigate

847
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 4: this new world order with all these extra variables. It's

848
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: a bummer that we brought you on to talk about

849
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 4: all this like seismic change, Larry, and not the Clemson

850
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: roster and getting ready for the Clemson season. Hopefully we

851
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 4: can do that again at some point in the near future,

852
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 4: once things are a little bit more ironed out on

853
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 4: that front.

854
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: But we'll do an emergency episode when Dabbo takes a

855
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: transfer transfer. We will.

856
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: I will.

857
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: If I'm out at the grocery store, I will break

858
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: traffic laws.

859
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 3: Yep, I will.

860
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll do it. There's yeah, non backup quarterback transfer

861
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: that had already been there.

862
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, Larry Williams, it's always our pleasure. We will most

863
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 4: certainly have you back on again sometime soon to talk

864
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 4: hopefully about some on field stuff if that's cool with you, Always.

865
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: Enjoy it, be happy to all right, Dan, there you go.

866
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 4: Larry Williams, Tiger Illustrated dot Com, the Clemson Dubcast. Yes,

867
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 4: our foremost authority on all things Clemson football. It's always

868
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: a pleasure to have Larry with us here on the podcast.

869
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 4: It'll be interesting, you know, these early days. I suppose

870
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 4: we'll find out more as this lawsuit, as the Florida

871
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 4: State lawsuit works its way through the system. It's clear

872
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 4: what the intention is. It's clear that eventually they want

873
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 4: to try and be free agents and get out of

874
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 4: this thing. But to Larry's point, where is that eventual home?

875
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 4: Is that home in the big ten or sec Remember

876
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 4: there was some scuttle but with Florida State, even like

877
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 4: could Florida State go independent with the help of private equity.

878
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 4: I mean, just all sorts of crazy ideas out there.

879
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 4: I don't know if any of that is so much

880
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 4: set in stone. You would hope, at least from their standpoint,

881
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 4: that there is an unspoken understanding as for where they

882
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 4: could go next, and it would probably be irresponsible if

883
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 4: there weren't. We just don't know what that is yet,

884
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: especially since talk of expansion at least on the conference

885
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 4: side has died down a bit. Right, So everything blew

886
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 4: up last year with Oregon and Washington in the pact, Well,

887
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 4: it like it seems like it has quieted for the

888
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 4: moment and that these are really the only two schools

889
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 4: that are pushing forward with it. Would love to know

890
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 4: if there have been conversations beyond what we've.

891
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: Heard publicly, how like if you have like a top five,

892
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: top three, top seven, like, what are going to be

893
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: the most obvious ways Clemson fans talk themselves into the

894
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: Big twelve so we be like we get the Texas

895
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: in roads, we get Salt Lake City, we get all

896
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: these new cities. Like, I mean, it's probably not going

897
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: to happen, But also I still think there's a universe

898
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: in which the Big Ten and SEC are like, we're

899
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: kind of good right now, Like there has to be

900
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: a proposal, a proposition to why these schools add TV

901
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,479
Speaker 1: value to lessen the payouts and less ESPN and Fox

902
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, Clemson, the SEC, we have

903
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: to do that. Like, I think there is an element

904
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: of and maybe it's not with these two schools. Maybe

905
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: it is where you sort of overestimate your value. I

906
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: think Florida State's a more valuable commodity than Clemson. I

907
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of think North Carolina is more valuable than both

908
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: of these schools. Maybe it's a geography thing, maybe it's

909
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: a basketball thing and potentially football, and like you know,

910
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: the Big Ten likes it's you know, AAU type schools

911
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: that And I have no idea what Clemson in Florida

912
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: State's AAU status is. But North Carolina has an academic

913
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: reputation that Clemson in Florida State don't. I wonder, I

914
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: wonder if we get into the like Dell Curry world,

915
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: do you remember the like this, the string of tweets

916
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: about del Curry getting divorced. You don't want to be

917
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: out here not knowing how bleak it is out there, like,

918
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: you don't want to be Washington State out here, right,

919
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: So Clemson and Florida State are definitely not Washington State

920
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: or Oregon State. But there are only so many slots.

921
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: There are only so many TV networks, right, there's basically

922
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: two TV networks paying in this moment. CBS and NBC

923
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: have attached themselves to the Big Ten, and the Big

924
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: twelve is shared between ESPN and Fox. But we are

925
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: in a moment where there are only so many dollars,

926
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: There are only so many slots, and that if suddenly

927
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: we have acc teams who are very attractive, but you know,

928
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: there are only so many chairs, that it could be

929
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: a situation in which the Big twelve is like, yeah,

930
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: we're just gonna load up. We're gonna load up on inventory.

931
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: Our deal. I don't think the Big twelves deal is

932
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: up fourteen years down the line, and so maybe there's

933
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: an opportunity there to do something. But no, I don't know, man,

934
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't get the sense that the Big ten wants

935
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: to say, oh, we have to get into like the

936
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: South Carolina market or even going to Florida.

937
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, if I were Clemson, I'd let Florida State leave first,

938
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 4: so that maybe you could get some of that exit

939
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 4: fee and use it to defray the cost of your

940
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 4: own Yeah, the Big twelve possibility, though no one's talking

941
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 4: about it, and though I don't think it would be

942
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 4: where either of these schools ended up, it's at least

943
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 4: interesting to consider because the conversation we just had about

944
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 4: unequal revenue sharing with the playoff model. So the way

945
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 4: that things stand, obviously the Big ten and the SEC

946
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 4: get more money.

947
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 3: The ACC is next.

948
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 4: The Big twelve is fourth on that totem pole, presumably

949
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 4: because the ACC has had a little bit more recent

950
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 4: success in the playoff. But if those teams end up

951
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 4: in the Big twelve, could that then help them catapult

952
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 4: to a greater payout via the playoff. I have no

953
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 4: idea what this looks like from the standpoint of renegotiations,

954
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 4: from the standpoint of network dollars, and how that factors

955
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 4: in what those numbers eventually would look like. I am interested,

956
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,879
Speaker 4: though from the standpoint of there is only a certain

957
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 4: amount of inventory that you can show you for and

958
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 4: on some level, unless there is some new source of

959
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 4: advertising income, it's hard to see a world in which

960
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 4: this is not lowering the pay for some of the

961
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 4: other member institutions. That's probably why, at least from the

962
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 4: Big ten an SEC standpoint, you don't hear a whole

963
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 4: lot of urgency, let's say, to try and make this

964
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:31,720
Speaker 4: happen sooner.

965
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 3: So it's fascinating. I don't fully know all the inner

966
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 3: workings here. Maybe at some point we can bring someone

967
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 3: on who does, but we're just sort of riding sidecar

968
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 3: as all of this in the college football world is

969
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 3: kind of burning down around us.

970
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: No, it'd be fascinating to know, and I don't know,

971
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: but it'd be fascinating to know what the network view

972
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: because the networks are in charge, Fox and ESPN are

973
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: in charge now what the network view is of Clemson specifically?

974
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: Do they view Clemson as a continuing national program? Clemson

975
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: is national in its recent success. I don't think it's

976
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: national in terms of a footprint awareness. I don't think

977
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: Clemson ratings are particularly you know they jump off the

978
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: page or anything like that. It's not a huge school,

979
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: so they're like alumni footprint isn't where Florida States, for instance, is.

980
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: I think it's about twenty thousand. Is the enrollment somewhere

981
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: in there, and it's probably up because of Clemson's recent

982
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: football success. So it'd be fascinating to set to see

983
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: where the perception is among ESPN and Fox people about

984
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 1: Clemson as a no brainer or long term play, as

985
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: like they're a budding star in terms of national awareness.

986
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: But you know, you look at some of the TV

987
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: ratings and some of their bigger games and national championships,

988
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: and you know, it's not where Ohio States is. It's

989
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: not where you know, Alabama's TV ratings grow when they

990
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: don't play Clemson. You know, that's the kind of thing

991
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: that these TV networks I think we're going to have

992
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: to wrestle with. It's just like, how do we view

993
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,919
Speaker 1: these places in terms of value ads for the Big

994
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: ten or SEC or even Big twelve, Like what is

995
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 1: their value add and how can if we think there's

996
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: a lot of value, how do we sell the rest

997
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: of the teams in a prospective new conference. There's a

998
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: lot of meat on that bone.

999
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 4: If any of the lawyers part of this want to

1000
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 4: come on the show and try to explain or answer

1001
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 4: some of those questions from their perspective, we'd love to

1002
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 4: have them on, provided they could translate this into layman speak,

1003
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 4: because we're not a legal show by any stretch.

1004
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 3: But a lot more to come on this front.

1005
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 4: We always appreciate Larry's insight on all things Clemson football,

1006
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 4: and certainly now with what's going on with this lawsuit.

1007
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: Right in soliverable at gmail dot com as always, that

1008
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 4: is email address where you can reach out if you've

1009
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 4: got something to say. We are as well on social

1010
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 4: media you can reach out really on any platform and

1011
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 4: give us your thoughts on this. Does it bum you out?

1012
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 4: If you're a Clemson fan? Where do you want to

1013
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 4: see them go? What do you think is realistic? All

1014
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,439
Speaker 4: these questions are ones that we're gonna have to start

1015
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 4: I think asking now over the next now year, two years,

1016
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: however long it takes for this scene to come to

1017
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 4: a conclusion.

1018
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: By the way, to quote the great Samuel Sosa, the

1019
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: ACC has also been very very good to Clemson. They

1020
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: had some schedules paved just incredibly so to the playoff.

1021
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Ty that like what the

1022
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: ACC offered up in terms of opponents for Clemson. And

1023
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: maybe it was the fact that they make a lot

1024
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: of money. Maybe it's the fact that they're basketball schools whatever.

1025
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: Clemson being in the ACC between like twenty fourteen and

1026
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, that was the place to be to get

1027
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: yourself to eleven or twelve wins a year. And it's

1028
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: not saying Dabo didn't do everything. Dabo did everything. But

1029
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: when you have fewer land mines, when there are fewer

1030
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: occasional Nate Peterman, James Connor Pitts and more like post

1031
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: Good Jimbo Florida States and occasional Notre Dames include a

1032
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: Brian Van Gorder Notre Dame. I don't know if they

1033
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: played that year. But when you have that sort like

1034
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: being in the ACC, all those ears not great financially competitively,

1035
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: pretty incredible time for Comson.

1036
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 4: There is this conversation, this debate, yeah, around what it

1037
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 4: means to compete nationally in this sport. And I think,

1038
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 4: first and foremost amid all of these lawsuits and talk

1039
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 4: of conference realignment and the ACC grant of rights, it

1040
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 4: gets dry. But there is this notion out there that

1041
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 4: you can only compete nationally if you are making the

1042
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 4: same as some of your counterparts, for sure, and I

1043
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 4: don't think that is an invalid point of view. I

1044
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 4: obviously understand that some of what was quoted. I don't

1045
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 4: know if it was in the lawsuit itself or in

1046
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 4: some of the articles that have been written about it,

1047
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 4: but Clemson believes that at some point the delta between

1048
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 4: what they earn annually from the ACC and their other

1049
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 4: engagements and some of their counterparts in the SEC and

1050
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 4: ACC or SEC in Big ten, excuse me, at some

1051
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 4: point that could get to about thirty million dollars, which

1052
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 4: is a pretty big gap.

1053
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Huge.

1054
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 4: But that being said, is that necessarily the main reason

1055
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 4: why you can't compete nationally is the money. That big

1056
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 4: of a barrier to competing in and getting to a

1057
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 4: playoff and playing for a title.

1058
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money.

1059
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 4: You can use that money, I'm sure, in great ways

1060
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 4: to build up your athletics program, your institution. However, these

1061
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 4: guys choose to spend this money. That's a lot of potatoes,

1062
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 4: as we've said on this show. But there are other

1063
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 4: teams out there who have been competing, who have been

1064
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 4: competing with less money, and certainly the avenue to get

1065
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 4: to the playoff. Playing an ACC schedule is a lot

1066
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 4: different than playing a Big ten or an SEC schedule,

1067
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 4: or even a big twelve schedule at this point. If

1068
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: you're a program like Clemson that has been at the top,

1069
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 4: that's still, as Larry said, as a lot of talent

1070
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 4: on hand, there's a case to be made that you

1071
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 4: shouldn't go anywhere you really want to compete, compete on

1072
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 4: the field and not so much with your bank account.

1073
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 4: Then there is a case to be made that you

1074
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 4: just stay where you're at.

1075
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's obviously not the universe in which

1076
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: we live. I'm just saying there should be some gratitude

1077
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: between Clemson people in the ACC. As Larry pointed out

1078
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: that you know, there are a section of Clemson fans

1079
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: who there's no love loss between the program and the

1080
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: ACZ because of like I don't know, bad basketball officials

1081
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: in the eighties or Jim Phillips has nothing to do

1082
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: with that. I'm just saying. But my counterpoint, my Devil's Advocate,

1083
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: was the Sami Sosa thing that the ACC been very,

1084
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: very good to Clemson. So that's all all right.

1085
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 4: Well, again, big thanks to Larry right in let us

1086
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 4: know your thoughts on this latest news college football. It

1087
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 4: just keeps coming at us here in the off season.

1088
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 4: We'll do our best to keep you abreast of the situation,

1089
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 4: to keep ourselves in tune with what's going on in

1090
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 4: the meantime. For that guy over there, my good friend

1091
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 4: Dan Rubinstein, For myself, Ty Hildebrand, hit subscribe, hit follow.

1092
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 3: As always, stay solid, Peace,