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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a

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Speaker 1: live from Coast to coast with Carolline Hide in New

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Speaker 1: York and v Lovelow in Sentrancsco.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg reports the US Commerce Department has drafted regulations restricting

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Speaker 3: AI chip shipments anywhere in the world without American approval.

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Speaker 4: Plus Oracle plans to cut thousands of jobs as it

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Speaker 4: handles a cash crunch from a massive AI data center

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Speaker 4: expansion effort.

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Speaker 3: And the Pentagon has officially notified lawmakers that it has

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Speaker 3: determined Anthropic and its products pose a risk to the

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Speaker 3: US supply chain.

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Speaker 4: Some extraordinary news on the private sector and indeed on

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Speaker 4: the public markets right now. And we're seeing ourselves, what

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Speaker 4: by about three quarters percent on the NASAK one hundred,

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Speaker 4: coming off of our lows.

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Speaker 5: But we're down on the week, the S and P

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Speaker 5: five hundred having.

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Speaker 4: Its worst week. It's October of last year, and in March.

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Speaker 4: Part it's because there was lots happening to oil prices,

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Speaker 4: and we're in a sixth day of conflict with the

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Speaker 4: Middle East with Iran, and we're seeing ail up six

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Speaker 4: percent at one point. We're now, of course, eclipsing ninety

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Speaker 4: one dollars on the BNT on the global contract. All

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Speaker 4: of this adding to inflation pressure when we're seeing weakness

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Speaker 4: in the labor market, non farm payrolls are surprise loss

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Speaker 4: in jobs, no additions. We're also seeing, therefore, money coming

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Speaker 4: out of some of those risk assets. Bitcoin off by

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Speaker 4: three point six percent today, ED, what are.

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Speaker 5: You looking at?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, chip stocks are under pressure.

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Speaker 3: The Philadelphia Semiconductor indexes down in this session, down on

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Speaker 3: the week, and headed to two straight weeks of declines

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Speaker 3: for the first time since November. Bloomberg News is reporting

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Speaker 3: that the Commerce Department has drafted new rules that would

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Speaker 3: restrict US shipments of AI chips worldwide, giving Washington broad

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Speaker 3: authority over whether other countries can build facilities to train

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Speaker 3: and run our official intelligence models.

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Speaker 2: That's all according to sources.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Tech and Industrial Policy Report of Maggie Eastland joins

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Speaker 3: us with the let's get into the content of those

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Speaker 3: draft rules and what Bloomberg's reported.

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Speaker 2: What do we need to know?

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Speaker 6: Of course, so as we've reported, there is a license

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Speaker 6: requirement for AI chips sent almost anywhere in the world. Now,

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Speaker 6: whether or not these licenses will be handed out. Depends

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Speaker 6: a lot on how many chips, as compared to a

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Speaker 6: Blackwell and video black Well, how many of those chips

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Speaker 6: each does each end user want to purchase, And now

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Speaker 6: on the higher end, for end users wanting to purchase

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Speaker 6: up to two hundred thousand, that may actually require and

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Speaker 6: the US may ask nations to invest in AI within

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Speaker 6: US borders. So this opens up an opportunity for chip

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Speaker 6: licenses to become a factor in global trade talks.

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Speaker 4: Something that I'm sure many a country of Bristol at, Maggie.

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Speaker 4: What's interesting is that the Commas Department has responded and

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Speaker 4: they say the draft rule isn't meant to function as

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Speaker 4: an Nvidia export band. Can you just give us the

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Speaker 4: nuance of how the government has responded.

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Speaker 5: You're reporting right.

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Speaker 6: So this response shows and tries to emphasize that this

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Speaker 6: is not the same as the Biden administration and.

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Speaker 5: Their diffusion rule.

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Speaker 6: It's one thing is it is not based on countries. However,

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Speaker 6: there is a big role here that the government is

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Speaker 6: playing as a gatekeeper, and whether or not this is

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Speaker 6: more restrictive is ultimately going to depend on how the

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Speaker 6: US decides to dole out these licenses, and it does

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Speaker 6: have the leeway to be more or less.

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Speaker 5: Strict with that.

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Speaker 7: Maggie.

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Speaker 3: An important point here is it doesn't necessarily change US

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Speaker 3: policy with regards to China right now. You outline that,

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Speaker 3: But there seems to be like this tiered response if

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Speaker 3: it's a small batch of chips for a small data

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Speaker 3: center project lighter review. But at the other end of

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Speaker 3: the extreme in our reporting, it seems to indicate that

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Speaker 3: you have a nation state country to country negotiation. If

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Speaker 3: the US is going to allow the export of cutting

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Speaker 3: edge AI accelerators.

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Speaker 6: Exactly as you say, for any shipments over two hundred

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Speaker 6: thousand Blackwell equivalents, there will have to be a nation

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Speaker 6: to nation negotiation, and it is sort of a tiered response.

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Speaker 6: If it's under a thousand chips, that's going to be

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Speaker 6: a lot easier to get approval. But again, as you

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Speaker 6: work up the chain and want more and more ships,

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Speaker 6: the US is going to be asking for more in return.

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Speaker 4: Maggie Eastlan on what the US we understand is currently considering.

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Speaker 4: We so appreciate it. Now, let's stick with Global Tech News.

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Speaker 4: Ted Mordenson is with US. He's bed managing director. He

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Speaker 4: oversees technology research. Boy, is there are a lot to

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Speaker 4: be trying to digest as someone who analyzes tech. Right now,

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Speaker 4: just focus in on what potentially the US could be

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Speaker 4: thinking about here and overseeing of basically how in video

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Speaker 4: and AMD export to the rest of the world.

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Speaker 8: Your reaction, I think it's a broader focus. It also,

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Speaker 8: let's face facts.

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Speaker 9: I mean, the Trump administration is providing a broad blanket

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Speaker 9: not only on energy policy, Look what we've done in Venezuela,

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Speaker 9: look what we're doing in our own right.

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Speaker 8: Now, but also on rare earth.

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Speaker 9: This all feeds together in one big ecosystem, and I

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Speaker 9: think they just want control of what's happening on our

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Speaker 9: next generation silicon at that three and two nanimeter node.

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Speaker 9: This is one of the reasons why we've built eight

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Speaker 9: fabs at TSM and Arizona. We have to control that technology,

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Speaker 9: specifically at that two nanimeter node, because that's where all

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Speaker 9: the AI chip development is going. So I think they're

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Speaker 9: just trying to get their arms around the whole situation

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Speaker 9: that the US is in more of a power solution

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Speaker 9: verse being ripped off globally a.

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Speaker 5: Power solution first.

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Speaker 4: I mean, at the moment, we're seeing a negative reaction

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Speaker 4: to the stocks in the back of that story. In fact,

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Speaker 4: very few stocks are in the green today and maybe

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Speaker 4: Marvel and broad Com out perform because of numbers we

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Speaker 4: see defense tech outperformed.

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Speaker 2: TED.

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Speaker 4: What do you do in this current geopolitical moment of tension?

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Speaker 9: So I'm on with some very big clients, you know, constantly,

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Speaker 9: whether it be during the day or even at night

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Speaker 9: lately during earnings, and I think what people are doing

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Speaker 9: is we're kind of post last Saturday, and there's not

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Speaker 9: a lot of cycle experience. I mean, I'm old, so

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Speaker 9: I've seen pretty much all this. It doesn't really surprise

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Speaker 9: me that much. But we're now in this I would

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Speaker 9: call it a capital preservation phase, where when you don't

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Speaker 9: have a you know, a clear picture of what could happen,

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Speaker 9: whether it be on the commodity side the raid environment,

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Speaker 9: you tend to go to a capital preservation mode. And

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Speaker 9: what I mean by that is there's a lot of

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Speaker 9: d risking going on in tech portfolios, and there's been

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Speaker 9: some very violent moves between software and also semiconductors, and

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Speaker 9: I think there's also some pms that are quite frankly

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Speaker 9: just moving to other sectors that are a little bit

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Speaker 9: more defensive.

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Speaker 3: So you know, Caroline outlined right at the top of

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Speaker 3: the show, the sort of the trajectory of the Nasdaq

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Speaker 3: one hundred, right, I think, on track for its worst

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Speaker 3: week since October. Then I said, chips are following a

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Speaker 3: similar pattern, back to back weekly declines for the first

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Speaker 3: time since November. It seems a strange question, But what

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Speaker 3: is the main catalyst in this market right now? What

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Speaker 3: is it that your clients are saying is driving their

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Speaker 3: psychology when you're on the phone with them.

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Speaker 8: They need clarity. You know, everybody's looking at the tenure.

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Speaker 9: I mean it revers down to the four to twelve

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Speaker 9: range earlier in the day, now it's back last time

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Speaker 9: I checked out of the four seventeen range. They're worried

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Speaker 9: about a potential spike in rakes. There's inflation everywhere in tech.

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Speaker 9: Every single conference call I'm on and I listened to

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Speaker 9: over seventy during earning season, everybody is passing on price.

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Speaker 9: So I think the institutional investor is looking at locking

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Speaker 9: in gains on some really leadership stocks, building some more

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Speaker 9: cash levels just to be more nimble. Buying from the

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Speaker 9: fearful selling to the needy is a discussion I have

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Speaker 9: almost every single conversation. And then the other things that

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Speaker 9: portfolio managers are doing is they're upgrading their portfolio. And

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Speaker 9: this is a great opportunity when the markets are down

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Speaker 9: to really look at these A companies with unbelievable management teams,

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Speaker 9: product cycles that move into AGENTIIC and free cash LOWI

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Speaker 9: is king and if you do a screen on those names,

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Speaker 9: there's a bunch of tech companies that are way off

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Speaker 9: their highs and that's where that's where we're doing most

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Speaker 9: of the work.

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Speaker 3: It's actually the S and P five hundred I think

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Speaker 3: that's having the rough week relatives in AWE. That one

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Speaker 3: hundred one name that is having a very good week

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Speaker 3: is Palenteer.

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Speaker 2: You up almost thirteen.

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Speaker 3: Percent, and that's like logical, right, Like Caroline was making

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Speaker 3: the point, I think it was Monday, maybe Tuesday that

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Speaker 3: with everything that's happening with the war in Iran and

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Speaker 3: indeed the back and forth between the Department of Defense,

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon and AI Providers, that you'd expect that name

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Speaker 3: to be higher, you know, you'd expect it to be

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Speaker 3: in the spotlight right now.

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Speaker 9: It truly is one of these next generation companies that

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Speaker 9: has been put in pretty much every single agency. They

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Speaker 9: started with the army, but they've gone to the Space Force,

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Speaker 9: the Navy, pretty much every single industry. And if you

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Speaker 9: just connect the dots on our success in Iran is

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Speaker 9: based upon Pallanteer being embedded in the IDEF, the Israeli

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Speaker 9: Defense Force as well as.

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Speaker 8: Pretty much I.

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Speaker 9: Would assume all of our agencies in relationship to our

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Speaker 9: Department of War.

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Speaker 8: This gives the warfighter.

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Speaker 9: And you know, I flew for you know a lot

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Speaker 9: of years and I feel so antiquated on what my

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Speaker 9: new naval aviators have at their disposal. They can see

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Speaker 9: around corners, they can see the battlefield in real time,

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Speaker 9: and that's that's really because of a lot of the

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Speaker 9: Paneteer software and their ability to really take on an

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Speaker 9: immense amount of data and make sense of it.

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Speaker 4: I love hearing about that history and that understanding you

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Speaker 4: have ted. Can you therefore opine a little bit on

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Speaker 4: how difficult it might be for them to unentwine themselves.

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Speaker 5: That's even a word with anthropic, because Panta has had

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Speaker 5: a partnership with them. If we are seeing them forced out,

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Speaker 5: is that going to be an issue for the business.

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Speaker 9: I think it's I think it's a really political I

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Speaker 9: think at some point of the Defense Department, and you know,

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Speaker 9: the government will need and tropic and they'll still find

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Speaker 9: a way of somewhere in the middle. Same thing with

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Speaker 9: open eye, open AI. If you go back in the

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Speaker 9: way back machine. I mean, this has happened at Amazon,

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Speaker 9: it's happened at Google, it's happened at Microsoft.

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Speaker 8: We'll get there somehow.

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Speaker 9: What I think your viewers need to understand is the

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Speaker 9: US government, specifically the Defense Department, needs the best technology,

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Speaker 9: and I think what we're using is kind of a

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Speaker 9: strong arm tactic to get them back at the table

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Speaker 9: and to get to some middle.

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Speaker 3: Grown Ted Wordenson of Bed with a very close view

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Speaker 3: of what's happening between technology and the world, the state

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Speaker 3: of the world.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Now coming up in the program, Oracle plans to act

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Speaker 3: thousands of roles as soon as this month. We're going

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Speaker 3: to discuss what is behind that move and the Bloomberg reporting.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.

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Speaker 3: Oracle is planning to cut thousands of jobs as it

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Speaker 3: looks to manage a cash crunch driven by AI spending.

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Speaker 3: According to sources, Let's get the details of Bloomberg's Brady Ford,

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Speaker 3: who broke the story. Lots of detail in the report,

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Speaker 3: the size, the scope, the when, what do we need

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Speaker 3: to know?

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Speaker 10: It costs a lot of money to build data centers.

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Speaker 11: Right, Oracle is betting its company on the fact that

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Speaker 11: it will be an AI infrastructure provider, and over the

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Speaker 11: next couple of years that means negative cash flow. It's

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Speaker 11: feeling a crunch, and so it's responding, right, it's planning

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Speaker 11: what appears to be one of the largest layoffs on

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Speaker 11: record for the company. Thousands of workers impacted as soon

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Speaker 11: as this month. And yeah, I mean it is certainly

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Speaker 11: a rough market out there for jobs in the tech industry,

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Speaker 11: and this is just one more data point.

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Speaker 5: For that, Brady.

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Speaker 4: It needs money for AI and the infrastructure of it.

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Speaker 4: It needs less people because of AI. And you say

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Speaker 4: that the job cuts are going to be coming to

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Speaker 4: those where I assume the latest greatest AI agent is

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Speaker 4: going to be able to perform for them.

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Speaker 10: Exactly.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: I think every management team right now, everybody who has.

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Speaker 11: A P and L is being asked, Hey, when you're

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Speaker 11: doing your headcom planning, let's think about what roles we

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Speaker 11: need less of. We all know these AI and tools

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Speaker 11: aren't quite there in terms of replacing people, but in

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Speaker 11: terms of time saving, in terms of hey, maybe if

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Speaker 11: you had a team of ten people, can we do

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Speaker 11: it with eight people.

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Speaker 10: From what we are hearing.

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Speaker 11: From sources, that is certainly a factor in this layoff.

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Speaker 10: Though at the end of the day, it's cost cutting.

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Speaker 10: I think that's the big story rather than it.

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Speaker 11: Being a you know, AI is so amazing that we

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Speaker 11: can replace people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, then you want some whether it's AI washing or not, continues.

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Speaker 4: It's proty forward. Thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 4: on that story. Look, another tech leader has been acknowledging

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Speaker 4: the impact of AI on jobs Page a Duty CEO

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Speaker 4: Jennifer tahadah I spoke with her at Bloomberg's New Voices

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Speaker 4: event earlier this week, where she said AI's impact from

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Speaker 4: productivity is changing the way her company fills vacant positions.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we've tried.

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Speaker 12: I moved the word backfill from our vocabulary because that

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Speaker 12: sort of infers that you need something exactly like what

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Speaker 12: you have before, and the market is moving so fast

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Speaker 12: that by the time one person exit the role, you

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Speaker 12: actually need to think completely differently about what the opportunity

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Speaker 12: is to add capacity to your team in a new way.

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Speaker 4: So are you seeing few of people working at Patrigg

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Speaker 4: and how does that perhaps.

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Speaker 5: Change the conversation you're having with employees.

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Speaker 12: Well, I think employees understand that we're looking for each

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Speaker 12: of them to demonstrate not only productivity and efficiency, but

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Speaker 12: higher velocity in the innovation. And I stand up at

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Speaker 12: town hall almost every month and say, I'm not asking

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Speaker 12: you to work more, I'm not asking you to work harder.

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Speaker 12: I'm asking to work differently. I'm asking you to embrace

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Speaker 12: and leverage AI and service of competitive advantage, but mostly

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Speaker 12: in service of our customers. Right, And I think that's

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Speaker 12: exciting for most employees.

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Speaker 3: That was page Judy CEO Jennifer Tahada. Now, US employers

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Speaker 3: did unexpectedly slash ninety two thousand jobs last month, raising

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Speaker 3: the unemployment rate to four point four percent. Those cuts

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Speaker 3: are being blamed on strikes at major healthcare providers and servers.

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Speaker 2: Whether not AI.

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Speaker 3: How much longer could it be until AI does impact

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Speaker 3: to the labor market market? Gimball, executive director of the

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Speaker 3: Yale Budget Lab, has been doing research on AI labor

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Speaker 3: market impact and joins us WE every week month and

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Speaker 3: quarter wait for the definitive data set that says AI

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Speaker 3: is doing something here.

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Speaker 2: Have you seen it yet? Will we see it soon?

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Speaker 13: I really haven't seen it yet. I think everyone is

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Speaker 13: so focused on what the technology can do, because the

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Speaker 13: technology is so amazing that they're jumping straight to and

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Speaker 13: therefore we're going to really quickly see these labor market impacts.

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Speaker 13: I think it's really important to keep in mind there

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Speaker 13: are a lot of things that affect deployment of technology.

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Speaker 13: It policies, economic pressures, demographic changes, liability concerns, and so

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Speaker 13: the question isn't just what can the technology do, but

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Speaker 13: how quickly is society going to and companies going to

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Speaker 13: rearrange itself around it.

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Speaker 3: The news is that, you know, the unexpected cut to

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Speaker 3: jobs in February. That's the news. That's what's driving markets today.

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Speaker 3: Within the data set, did you see anything? Did you

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Speaker 3: go deep and say, Okay, what can I put from

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Speaker 3: this into my own model?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 13: And when you look at this data, I mean, strikes

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Speaker 13: did play a role, so we should see those jobs

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Speaker 13: coming back.

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Speaker 7: But even if you.

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Speaker 13: Take the strikes out, about fifty percent of the job

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Speaker 13: loss was in goods producing sectors approached to private service

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Speaker 13: providing sectors. So things like manufacturing, manufacturing, construction, mining, and logging,

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Speaker 13: those are not sectors that we expect to be affected

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Speaker 13: by AI in the same way. And for context, right,

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Speaker 13: they were about fifty percent of the cuts, but they're

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Speaker 13: only sixteen percent of employment, and so that doesn't suggest

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Speaker 13: that this is AI. It suggests that, you know, you

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Speaker 13: maybe have impacts of tariffs plus just some general cyclical weakening.

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Speaker 4: Martha, Yeah, we saw in information about eleven thousand jobs gone.

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Speaker 5: Out of those ninety two thousand.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell us what data points we should look

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Speaker 4: at then, if it is going to be about productivity gains,

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Speaker 4: if it is going to be more about different areas

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Speaker 4: that is starting to see the impact of an AI

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Speaker 4: agent for example.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, one of the things that I've been looking at

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Speaker 13: is how quickly the just composition of jobs in our

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Speaker 13: economy is changing. Because we gain and lose jobs all

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Speaker 13: the time, that's a pretty standard part of an economy.

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Speaker 13: And so just because we lose jobs in one month

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Speaker 13: doesn't mean that we should immediately assume that it's AI

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Speaker 13: related job loss. But if we're losing jobs predominantly in

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Speaker 13: one sector or a couple of sectors that are unusual

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Speaker 13: that look like AI. That's a signal that maybe this

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Speaker 13: is starting to happen. And that's why you know, at

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Speaker 13: Budget Lab we've been tracking this measure of occupational distribution

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Speaker 13: every month and it still isn't really flashing anything. I

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Speaker 13: think it's really important to separate out the vibes on

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Speaker 13: AI in the labor market from what's happening in the data.

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Speaker 13: And you know, I think you're just seeing broad agreement

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Speaker 13: that it's not in the data yet. You just saw

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Speaker 13: a report from Anthropic come out yesterday saying, yeah, we're

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Speaker 13: really not seeing macroeconomic impacts here yet.

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Speaker 4: Vibe is one thing, but Jack Dawcy saying he's cutting

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Speaker 4: half of his staff is a data point. And yes,

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Speaker 4: we can say whether there's some AI washing within it,

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Speaker 4: but still there are executives saying we are not backfilling,

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Speaker 4: we are using AI.

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Speaker 5: We are cutting half of our.

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Speaker 4: Staff because we think AI is at a cusp where

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Speaker 4: we can do more with it.

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Speaker 5: Martha, when does that start to leach in?

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Speaker 13: Do you think tracking CEO statements is not the ideal

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Speaker 13: way to look at this for a couple of reasons.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 13: One is there's huge selection and who even makes a

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Speaker 13: statement about layoffs. Your hardware store down the street is

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Speaker 13: not issuing a statement every time they lay someone off.

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Speaker 13: There's selection effects in whose statements get covered, right. The

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Speaker 13: statement from Jack Dorsey was you know, very eye catching,

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Speaker 13: and so I got picked up. And also, frankly, you know,

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Speaker 13: CEOs have incentives to talk about things in a certain way.

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Speaker 13: Shareholders want to hear that they're making AI investments and

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Speaker 13: driving productivity, and they may not even have a perfect

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Speaker 13: sense of what hiring would look like in the absence

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Speaker 13: of AI. And so I do think it's a moment

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Speaker 13: where you know, yes, we should listen to people about

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Speaker 13: what's going on. We should listen to CEOs. But it's

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Speaker 13: really important to go back to the data and make

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Speaker 13: sure we're taking a really data driven approach here rather

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Speaker 13: than you know, following the latest.

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Speaker 10: Company announcement.

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Speaker 4: And that is why your data approach is so important.

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Speaker 4: Some of the research you do is just great, go

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Speaker 4: and read it. Labor market a exposure, what do we know?

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Speaker 4: For example, Martha Gimmell, executive director and co founder at

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Speaker 4: the Yale Budget Lab, we appreciate you now coming up

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Speaker 4: soft Bank in search of forty million dollars to fuel.

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Speaker 5: Its AI ambitions. More on that next, this is bloombag Tech.

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Speaker 5: It's time now for talking tech and first up.

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Speaker 4: Robin Hood raised six hundred and fifty eight million dollars for

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Speaker 4: its closed end fund designed to give US retail investors

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Speaker 4: access to private companies.

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Speaker 5: Robinhood, CEO of Latana, joined Open Interest. Just take a listen.

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Speaker 14: Robin Adventure is a closed end fund listed on the

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Speaker 14: Nicey that invests in private companies. The idea is we

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Speaker 14: raise the capital in an IPO and then we invest

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Speaker 14: that capital in private companies. And so far we've got

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Speaker 14: a portfolio frontier names in their industries. You mentioned Data

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Speaker 14: Bricks or a Mercore, Revolute Ramp. Those are just some

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Speaker 14: of the companies that are are part of this portfolio.

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Speaker 4: Plus uber Well it is posted job listings that suggest

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Speaker 4: the right share company is stepping our efforts to test

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Speaker 4: a subscription offering for drivers and couriers around the world.

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Speaker 4: Now the move underscores a sharper focus on subscriptions as

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Speaker 4: emerging competitors load drivers with flat fee models and soft

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Speaker 4: bank Well it's seeking up to forty billion dollars from

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Speaker 4: banks to help finances investment in Open AI. Now that's

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Speaker 4: according to sources, the roughly twelve month bridge loan will

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Speaker 4: be unwritten by fall enders including JP Morgan Chase. So

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Speaker 4: SoftBank has been unloading assets in fact, including its taken

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Speaker 4: VideA to bankroll.

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Speaker 5: It's growing better on open AI, but ED is an

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Speaker 5: interesting time to be.

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Speaker 4: Wanting more banks to be syndicating dead at the moment exposed.

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Speaker 3: To AI because credit pressure is building on soft Bank

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Speaker 3: in particularly a twelvemonth bridge loan. And remind yourself that

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Speaker 3: forty billion dollars is their largest ever US denominated borrowing caroc,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Also within that conversation, we're just honing from Vlad Tenorth

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Speaker 4: and Robin Hood on one side, people still wanting access

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Speaker 4: to private markets. But then we have today the news

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Speaker 4: around Blackrock and it's private market credit fund and having

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Speaker 4: to say, look, you can't keep taking.

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Speaker 5: Money from at the moment. It's really extraordinary moves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've been on top of it all week.

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Speaker 3: That credit story is not going away.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Coming up, we're going to discuss the data center threats

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Speaker 3: in the Middle East with sand Winter Levy of the

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Speaker 3: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. That's next it's halftime. This

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Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. This is

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Speaker 3: what markets look like on Friday to end the week.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot going on in the context of Bloomberg's

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Speaker 3: reporting on the tech sector and the war in Iran.

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Speaker 3: And as that one hundred is off session lows but

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Speaker 3: down eight tens of percent, and bonds have kind of

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Speaker 3: been wavering. You see the US tenure yield at four

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Speaker 3: point four one four percent. Interestingly, like a lot of

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Speaker 3: pressure on the Nasdaq one hundred in the moment is

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Speaker 3: coming from some of the megacap names. I was talking

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Speaker 3: with the team Caro on the equities desk, like what's

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Speaker 3: going on. There is some kind of stabilization in memory pricing,

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Speaker 3: for example. We know that there's a recalculation in recent

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Speaker 3: days of capital expenditures that impact some of the hyperscalers.

445
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: But you look at Apple, Meta, Tesla, Amazon, those are

446
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 3: on a points basis the biggest drags right now, and

447
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 3: not that much in the news flow beyond. It's just,

448
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 3: I guess a volatile week politically speaking, and as we

449
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: went through a ted there's a lot that the market

450
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: needs clarity on.

451
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about one of those stories. Politically speaking,

452
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 4: Anthropic it's fouled to legally contest a Pentagon decision that

453
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 4: declared the company a US supply chain threat, a designation

454
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: typically reserved for foreign anversaries. Capping off a very turbulent

455
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 4: week in the AI race, Blue most Shrinkafari joins us

456
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 4: now for more on the unfolding AI saga that you

457
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 4: have been at the forefront of reporting with for at

458
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 4: least a week now. It was last week when we

459
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: first saw the explosive conversation around being deemed a supply

460
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 4: chain risk, and now it's come in writing.

461
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: That's right, and you know.

462
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 15: Dario m and A, the CEO of Aanthropic, also put

463
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 15: out a memo yesterday saying that he believes that the

464
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 15: order is narrow in scope to the effect that it

465
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 15: won't actually impact hopefully business with customers who are not

466
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 15: at the government or working directly with the Pentagon. I

467
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 15: think it's going to take a while to figure out

468
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 15: exactly how customers react to this.

469
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: A few places that we've looked over recent days interesting

470
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: there's the Censor Tower data on uninstalls and downloads, and

471
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 3: there's the app stores and like it's part of the

472
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 3: Q and AI newsletter. Right, we're going to look at

473
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 3: this idea that there have been changes in chat, GPT

474
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: open aies tool in terms of downloads and DOUN stores, and

475
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: then Claude Anthropics what are you seeing.

476
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 15: Yeah, So it's really interesting because Anthropics claud business has

477
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 15: historically been more enterprise, especially in the past year, and

478
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 15: now we're seeing this shift the sort of consumer bump

479
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 15: for the Claud app, and a lot of that is

480
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 15: because some users agree with the company stands on pushing

481
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 15: for restrictions on surveillance and autonomous weaponry in their negotiations

482
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 15: with the Department of War.

483
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 10: So now those.

484
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 15: Gains are up to a million downloads a day. Yesterday

485
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 15: the company was saying that. Being said, Chatchapt by far

486
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 15: has a large majority of the market share here. It's

487
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 15: going to take a lot of sustain growth at that

488
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 15: level for Anthropic to even come close to Chatchapt on

489
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 15: the consumer side. But consumer support, any kind of support,

490
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 15: is much needed for Anthropic right now.

491
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 10: So that is an interesting bump.

492
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 4: In terms of just where they stand and consume penetration.

493
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 4: It is much smaller than Opening Eye. More broadly, how

494
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: much of a concern is it to Anthropic that the

495
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 4: enterprise part of the business could be impacted if they

496
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 4: are asked on install As you said, there is clarification

497
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: that really a wouldn't extend too many parts of the

498
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: other companies that use clawed only with Pentagon contracts.

499
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 7: That's right.

500
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 15: This is the million billion, multi billion dollar question, right.

501
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 15: Anthropic has grown very rapidly in the past year. It's

502
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 15: now at a reported nineteen billion in run rate revenue. However,

503
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 15: a majority of that does come from enterprise contracts. So

504
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 15: if they are our enterprise business, so if they are

505
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 15: losing marquee customers over this, who may also have dealing

506
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 15: themselves with the Pentagon and are worried about the implications

507
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 15: of the supplier risk designation, that could be devastating to Anthropics.

508
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 15: So that is a big question is how why does

509
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 15: the supplier risk designation really? Will Anthropics end up legally

510
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 15: challenging it? And is this issue resolved? I think that's

511
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 15: going to be the question to watch for customers.

512
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: Bloombo Sharen Gafari, Thank you very much. And as tensions

513
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: rise between Washington and leading AI firms, the global stakes

514
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 3: are growing as well. Data centers, the backbone of artificial

515
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: intelligence have now merged as potential targets in the escalating

516
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: conflict in the Middle East. Let's bring in Sam winter Levy,

517
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Fellow. Twenty four hours ago,

518
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: we went to our correspondent in the emir region and

519
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 3: went through the specific sites that have been targeted, the

520
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: reason why, and just for the audience, Amazon owns and

521
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,479
Speaker 3: operates some of those facilities. You've had time to do

522
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: your own research and study of the data. How does

523
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: this fit in this idea that data centers are a

524
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: target in the context of a war in Iran and

525
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 3: a conflict between the United States and Iran.

526
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 16: Sure, yeah, so, thanks so much having me. Datata centers

527
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 16: are becoming increasingly central to a very broad range of

528
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 16: economic life, national security activities, and they are fundamentally soft targets.

529
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 16: So for the Onians looking for targets, so they could

530
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 16: they could cause disruption, could try to broaden the conflict,

531
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 16: could bring the conflict home to the United States. Targeting

532
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 16: a data center that is operated by a US company

533
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 16: that's a symbol or of US Gulf cooperation, it becomes

534
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 16: quite an appealing target given how easy they are to

535
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 16: hit with a drone with a barage and missile strikes.

536
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 16: Given how fragile and vulnerable these facilities.

537
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: Are vulnerable, how do you protect a data center.

538
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: In this In this case, sure so it's hard.

539
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 16: So fundamentally, these data centers are filled with GPUs, they're

540
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 16: very fragile. It's quite easy to take out a chiller,

541
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 16: which are these things that keep the data centers cool,

542
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 16: keep the servers cool, or to take out a generator

543
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 16: or the transformers that provide electricity to the data center.

544
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 16: There are things you can do. You can use more

545
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 16: reinforced concrete, you can try to harden the facilities. You

546
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 16: can use air defense systems, anti own devices, jamming systems,

547
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 16: an anti anti missile systems. But all of this drives

548
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 16: up the costs of building a data center, and none

549
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 16: of this will guarantee security against a kind of swarm

550
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 16: of cheap drones. And it's very very expensive to protect

551
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 16: against these sorts of cheap strikes. So there are things

552
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 16: you can do to protect them. I think historically these

553
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 16: companies and the governments be much more focused on protecting

554
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 16: data centers from cyber attacks, protecting them from trespasses, but

555
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 16: much less focused on strikes from drones or from missiles,

556
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 16: which you know is an inevitable risk, I think to

557
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 16: building expensive infrastructure in a region where drones and missile

558
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 16: strikes are unfortunately a real risk to worry about.

559
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 5: And you saw this risk.

560
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: You wrote about it in July in an opinion column,

561
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 4: really saying that the Golf is not a place to

562
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: be building out these data centers, Sam, but also the

563
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 4: Golf is the place longer term with more abundant energy,

564
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 4: and the Golf is the place that also needs AI

565
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: for its own citizens. So what do they do?

566
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 16: Yeah, So the Golf has huge ambitions in the AI race,

567
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 16: and they're very appealing partners for the United States for

568
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 16: many reasons, energy capital or the things you mentioned. So

569
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 16: I think it's inevitable that the data centers are going

570
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 16: to be built out in the region. I think this

571
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 16: underscores the risks of building the biggest computing clusters there

572
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 16: the most critical infrastructure. I think that the United States

573
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 16: should have been very carefully about where it wants to

574
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 16: cite that sort of infrastructure. But some degree of data

575
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 16: center construction is inevitable in the growth. But I think

576
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 16: governments need to think. Governments and the companies that operate.

577
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 16: The data centers need to think much more carefully about

578
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 16: their resilience plans, their redundancy plans, how to protect them

579
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 16: from these sorts of physical risks, because as you know,

580
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 16: as you said, this was a foreseeable risk.

581
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 7: These targets are soft.

582
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 16: The more they become symbols of technological might, the more

583
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 16: they become central to economic life, the more appealing they

584
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 16: become as targets for nonstate actors or for hostile states

585
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 16: that want to cause disruption.

586
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 4: Okay, there is a lot that goes into a decision

587
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: as to where to put a data center, not only

588
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: about the power that's accessible or the water, but the

589
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 4: people and the labor and the costs. SAM Therefore, though

590
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: with your Carnegie in talment intational international.

591
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 5: Piece hat on where should these be built?

592
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 16: From a US perspective, so, I think these data centers

593
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 16: are going to be built all over the world.

594
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 7: I think we should be building them all over the world.

595
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 16: I think for the biggest, most important, most critical computing clusters,

596
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 16: the United States should be thinking carefully about siding them

597
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 16: in close US allies, NAO states, within the United States itself,

598
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 16: areas where they can be kind of protective from attacks

599
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 16: or whether it can be more easily protected from attacks.

600
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 7: That's not to say that we shouldn't.

601
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 16: Be building data facilities in the Gulf too, but probably

602
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 16: not our most critical computing clusters. And I would I

603
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 16: would also say that these strone strikes are also underscore.

604
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 16: The data centers all over the world could be a threat.

605
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 16: So even a data center in Europe could well be

606
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 16: targeted by Russian sabotage for example. You know, these these

607
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 16: are fragile sites wherever they're saved.

608
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: You know, the argument the Gulf is not the place

609
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: to build the world's AI infrastructure. The reality is that

610
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 3: is exactly where they're building the world's AI infrastructure, and

611
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: it's where the capital is coming from, and it's where

612
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 3: in VIDEO and AMD have deals to send their chips,

613
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: and you have capital flowing from the Gulf into the

614
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 3: United States to fund infrastructure products projects.

615
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: In the United States.

616
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I welcome any response to that reality that

617
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: you have.

618
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 16: Yeah, so I think, you know, as I said, I

619
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 16: think that is the reality to some extent, the customer

620
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 16: is toward extent we go forward with these types of projects.

621
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 16: You know, it remains to be seen what this will

622
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 16: look like after this conflict. Because it'sertainly going to drive

623
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 16: up insurance premiums. It may make it harder to attract

624
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 16: engineering talent to build out these dead des centers. I

625
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 16: think this will't make video AE or cider Adia rethink

626
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 16: their plans to any great extent, but I think it

627
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 16: will complicate those plans. I think, you know, it should

628
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 16: make the US government much more cautious about where it's

629
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 16: like its most critical data centers. But again, as I said,

630
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 16: data centers are going to be built everywhere. I think

631
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 16: this attack should be a wake up called that all

632
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 16: of these data centers need to think much more seriously

633
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 16: about physical attacks and not just cyber attacks.

634
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 7: Digitalis are natural disasters.

635
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 5: I wake up.

636
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 16: Cool.

637
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 4: You've been trying to give for at least six months now,

638
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 4: sam Win to Levy, we appreciate your time of Carnegie

639
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 4: and Dowmon for international peace. Coming up, How are supply

640
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: chain risks impacting the world's largest automotive supply. I'm a

641
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: justly going to hear from the BOSH CEO now, Stephan Herton,

642
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 4: that's next to the Bloomberg Tech.

643
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: The conflict in the Middle East is in its seventh

644
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: day and with President Trump insisting on unconditional surrender from Iran.

645
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: Concerns about the impact on global supply chains arising. I

646
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: spoke with BOSH CEO Stephan Horton about what that's meant

647
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: for the automotive industry.

648
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 17: So far, we've seen that evs have heard the first wave,

649
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 17: and that was not as big as we all expected,

650
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 17: especially in the US. We saw a less demand than

651
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 17: we actually were hoping for. So now a second wave

652
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 17: comes in with but also pluck in hybrid vehicles or

653
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 17: range extended vehicles. That's a very interesting technology which you

654
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 17: also see in China. So very much all work is

655
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 17: now focused on this combination of electric vehicle technology and

656
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 17: engine technology, and this engine technology is a modern engine

657
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 17: technology with a differentiated engine. So BOSH is doing this

658
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 17: work because we have kept our capability in engine work,

659
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 17: I sees and we can combine these two and do

660
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 17: the plug and hybrid vehicles very important. So I expect

661
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 17: actually demand for these kind of vehicles to be rising

662
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 17: quickly because they are more fuel efficient and same time

663
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 17: they have range, which you want to have and you

664
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 17: can still pull a boat or have a heavy vehicle,

665
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 17: which is practically of use for many people.

666
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: But the situation with the war in Iran has any

667
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: impact or bearing on that.

668
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 17: Well, I think people will be sensitive always now a

669
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 17: bit more on what gas prices are, how much they

670
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 17: have to spend for the vehicle, what's the vehicle used,

671
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 17: and probably this pluck in hybrid vas or hybrid vehicles

672
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 17: in total with a certain electrical range, which is really useful,

673
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 17: So you can drive electrically for a certain range and

674
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 17: then you'll have to we will switch over to gasoline.

675
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 17: This is something which is for the market the optimal

676
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 17: solution as of now it looks like it. And obviously

677
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 17: people becoming more sensitive about gasoline prices means they will

678
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 17: tend more or not go from a pure ic because

679
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 17: more to a combined so hybrid vehicle or even a

680
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 17: full electric vehicle, that's for sure.

681
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: We started this conversation with semiconductors. You talked about the

682
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: situation with the start of the year, but also some

683
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: parallels with the COVID era and the chip shock, the

684
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: chip crisis.

685
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: Is this war in Iran different?

686
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: Do you see there being a similar level of impact

687
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 3: on semiconductor supply or bottleneck and where are you most

688
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: focused within the realm of silicon silicon.

689
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 17: I'm more watching the AI build up because the I

690
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 17: build up, for example, demands high amount of ramps, right, So,

691
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 17: and I also observe that because the same time we

692
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 17: are looking at the ship supply for all applications we do,

693
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 17: but at the same time we're also applying AI in

694
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 17: a massive volume, So that's a very important thing to monitor.

695
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 17: These chips are used in AI data centers to build

696
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 17: the we need to implement solutions like accident prevention in cars,

697
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 17: and that's the business cases which also AI need. So yes,

698
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 17: it is a balance, and yes, there will be probably

699
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 17: a shortage in certain components because the ramp up of

700
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 17: AI infrastructure is massive. On the other hand, these infrastructure

701
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 17: is used also on product we make, so it's used

702
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 17: in Hossald appliances, empower tools in cars, and that's an

703
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 17: important story to go forward.

704
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 3: Is there some panic right now in trying to secure

705
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: memory in particular?

706
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 17: No, I wouldn't say there is panic.

707
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: It's something we know.

708
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 17: We have seen more severe chip crisis some years ago, right,

709
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 17: But it's something obviously you need to look at because

710
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 17: you also want the functionality, right, you want the I functionality,

711
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 17: You want the better automational vehicles. You want the better

712
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 17: assisted driving because that's safer, it's better than just human driving.

713
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 17: So also in the automation you see probably both. You

714
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 17: see the full automation like in the EV, the full

715
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 17: y V, right, but you see also the hybrid, which

716
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 17: is the massive assisted automation making a driver just the

717
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 17: better driver. And that's based on AI.

718
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 5: Bosh THEO there Se van hearton coming up.

719
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: A massive boom in AI data centers is driving demand

720
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 4: for housing and amenities in remote parts of the country.

721
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 4: We'll talk about the state that's on demand, simulating golf.

722
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 5: This is Blueberg tech.

723
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: Construction of data centers has led to increase competition for

724
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: workers in areas with limited housing and amenities q the

725
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 3: rise of so called AI man camps take a listen.

726
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: To power the boom and data center building companies are

727
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 2: heading far outside of Silicon Valley and cities in general.

728
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 18: We're starting to see some pushback from cities where residents

729
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 18: are kind of concerned about what living near a data

730
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 18: center might mean for their property values and for their

731
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,439
Speaker 18: way of life. We're seeing projects push out further into

732
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 18: rural stretches of places like Texas and Louisiana because you

733
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 18: can get much cheaper land out there, and you can

734
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 18: also find municipalities that are more willing to work with

735
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 18: you when you need to negotiate things like power arrangements

736
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 18: or zoning changes. While the AI companies are dooking it

737
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 18: out to figure out whose model will win, there are

738
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 18: these other companies that see opportunity just in the build

739
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 18: out itself. There is a huge demand to build data

740
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 18: centers as quickly as they can, so housing becomes a

741
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 18: big bottleneck. Most of these places that these projects are

742
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 18: getting built now just do not have the infrastructure and

743
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 18: that they need for this. Hotels fill right up, our

744
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 18: V parks are completely full with workers. All of a sudden,

745
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 18: there's a line at the grocery store or at the

746
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 18: gas pump. We have a lot of these sort of

747
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 18: single lane county roads and they're not built for rows

748
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 18: and rows of heavy duty trucks driving on them all day,

749
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 18: and so you get roads kind of deteriorating. People are

750
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 18: paying thousands of dollars a month just to rent r

751
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 18: V spaces near construction sites. We're seeing a wide range

752
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 18: of companies get into this, all the way from Wiley

753
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 18: locals that pitch together a little bit of land and

754
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 18: sell the RV spots all the way up to major

755
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 18: publicly traded corporations helping house workers. They've helped with oil

756
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 18: and gas in the shale boom. If you look at

757
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 18: it from above, it looks like an XL spreadsheet cut

758
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 18: out of the middle of farmland. You get this paved

759
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 18: surface where you have rows and rows of gray roofs

760
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 18: and temporary housing. They'll have their own toilet or they'll

761
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 18: have their own sink. They always have Wi Fi so

762
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 18: that you can make video calls to family back home,

763
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 18: and then there'll be a shared communal kind of dining setup.

764
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 18: They place so much empass on the food, not only

765
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 18: because these guys are working so hard all day that

766
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 18: they need the calories, but also because it's an easy

767
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 18: way to attract workers when there's such competition for them.

768
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 18: We'll also see a lot of amenity space. These are

769
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 18: workers that are spending fifteen sixteen hours a day doing

770
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 18: manual labor. You know, I figured when they got home

771
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 18: they'd want to go to sleep, but apparently there are

772
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 18: often gyms so they can get workouts in.

773
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 5: And you can see the.

774
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 4: Rest of the full story from Blomberg Originals on our website,

775
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 4: on YouTube or the terminal, and we want to get

776
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 4: more on this story now, the driving force and the

777
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 4: impact of these data center camps. Bloomberg's Joe Reporter Bloomberg's reporter,

778
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: Show Love and we were just seeing you there in

779
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 4: the original's piece and Joe talk to us about some

780
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 4: of the companies that are actually going to be thriving

781
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 4: in this moment, the ones that are actually doing the

782
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 4: building of because people, there's a great quote in your story,

783
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: people don't want to be spasically sleeping in their trailer.

784
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: That's right, Thank you for having me.

785
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 18: Well, we're seeing companies ranging all the way from smaller

786
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 18: local companies that have been working on you know, oil

787
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 18: fields all the way up to publicly traded corporation where

788
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 18: they're using the same assets that they were for immigration

789
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 18: facilities or for major drilling projects during the sale boom,

790
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 18: and they're using these assets now to build out these

791
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 18: man camps. And so these are companies like Target Hospitality

792
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 18: or Civio, and what they're able to do is reallocate

793
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 18: their resources. You know, until recently, oil was not priced

794
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 18: very very lucatively, so drilling had kind of declined. So

795
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 18: this presented a new opportunity with all of these projects,

796
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 18: especially as they're pushing out further into rural Texas, rural Louisiana,

797
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 18: places that just you know, you show up in a

798
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 18: place like Dickens County, which I wrote about in the story,

799
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 18: you know, you'll find a couple of restaurants, you might

800
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 18: find a motel, but it's just not nearly enough for

801
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 18: a fifteen hundred man workforce that's being brought in to

802
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 18: build these Darta centers.

803
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: At a more macro level, the date is quite compelling.

804
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: What the story is here, right, jobs growth and the

805
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 3: data center build out? Well, zoom out a bit, you

806
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: know what what is direction is this heading in at scale?

807
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 18: Right, We've seen a state like Texas for example. I mean,

808
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 18: if you talk to the leaders, if you talk to

809
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 18: the hyperscalers, they're very bullish on the opportunity for building

810
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 18: data centers in Texas. There's abundant land here, there's abundant energy,

811
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 18: and Texas leaders see this as an opportunity to overtake

812
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 18: Virginia even in the data center space. So you know,

813
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 18: Bloomberg Intelligence estimates that there's seven hundred billion dollars worth

814
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 18: of projects that are just in the planning stage right now.

815
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 18: And I don't need to tell you artificial intelligence it's

816
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 18: growing at a pace that really is hard to keep,

817
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 18: you know, keep tabs on. So these companies that I've

818
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 18: spoken with, you know, they see a very, very high

819
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 18: ceiling for where this buildout can go.

820
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 4: I mean, the number of Bloomberg Intelligent is saying seven

821
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 4: hundred billion dollars worth of projects in the planning stage,

822
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty billion already underway. But Joe, the

823
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: word camps kind of says it all in that these

824
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: aren't permanent housing.

825
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 5: Briefly, it's not long term jobs.

826
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: That's right.

827
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 18: And when you speak with local officials, even in a

828
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 18: place like Dickens County that has not seen a project

829
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 18: nearly of this scale, they're aware that these jobs are

830
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 18: not going to stick around forever and that while you

831
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 18: might have some people that stick around to work on

832
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 18: the data center once it's built, most of them are

833
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 18: going to have to get out of town. So you know,

834
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 18: it's temporary.

835
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: Bloomberg, Jo Lovenger, great reporting in video, imprint.

836
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 2: Great to have you on the program.

837
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 4: Charroc, Yeah, that does it for an extraordinary week on

838
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: Bloomberg chech Head.

839
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot to recap. Do it on the podcast.

840
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 3: You know where to find it. It's all on the

841
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: screen there but Spotify, iHeart and Apple.

842
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech