Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
Speaker 1: and ed Lo Lolow in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.
Speaker 3: Amazon's cloud unit signs a thirty eight billion dollar deal
Speaker 3: to supply open Ai.
Speaker 2: With computing power.
Speaker 3: Plus how Shaomi's pivot from smartphones to electric vehicles may
Speaker 3: have come at a human cost, And all eyes on
Speaker 3: Paneteer posting its earnings results after the closing bell. This
Speaker 3: is defense tech spending is ramping up. But first we
Speaker 3: check on the markets.
Speaker 2: Also ramping up.
Speaker 3: Not quite at a record high for the Nasdaq one hundred,
Speaker 3: but we are up some four tenths of percent for
Speaker 3: the big Tech benchmark as we focus in once again
Speaker 3: on earnings and.
Speaker 2: The never ending desire for AI compute.
Speaker 3: Let's go there, because the key points drivers on this
Speaker 3: particular benchmark are two stocks. We shine a light on Amazon,
Speaker 3: pushing on four point five percent higher after significant gains
Speaker 3: on Friday after its earnings.
Speaker 2: This is a company that is of.
Speaker 3: Course shrinking its workforce but focusing in on AWS growth,
Speaker 3: and it manages to sign open Ai as that new
Speaker 3: client thirty eight billion dollar deal will dig into it
Speaker 3: in video. Well, they're the GPUs that go inside all
Speaker 3: these data centers. It too climbs in terms of a
Speaker 3: market capitalization up another two point seven percent. I just
Speaker 3: want to go to the top story that is Amazon
Speaker 3: and open Ai as they sign a thirty eight billion
Speaker 3: dollar deal for further cloud compute. And it's been likest
Speaker 3: Seth Figeman that we turned to Seth in.
Speaker 2: The grand scheme of Things. Scheme of things.
Speaker 3: It's not three hundred billion dollars of Oracle Cloud that
Speaker 3: we saw before, but it is notable that open Ai
Speaker 3: turns to more and more cloud providers at this moment.
Speaker 4: That's right. It really is telling about this moment for
Speaker 4: both companies. Open Ai just tapping every possible resource that
Speaker 4: can to meet its cloud computing needs, and Amazon, which
Speaker 4: had previously been investigating Anthropic, is also trying to have
Speaker 4: a piece of open Ai and possibly other players down
Speaker 4: the road. So it contributes to that incestuous where we
Speaker 4: keep talk about everyone long is backing everyone else.
Speaker 3: And of course we've seen a deal to offer open
Speaker 3: a eyes opens large language models into the.
Speaker 2: Overall bedrock offering of AWS. But this is different.
Speaker 3: This is a seven year deal, it goes out, but
Speaker 3: actually by end of twenty twenty six, we're going to
Speaker 3: see the amount of computer or any necessary for open
Speaker 3: Ai to go on to a.
Speaker 4: A bit more near term than some other deals we've
Speaker 4: see Opening Eye Broker and Opennie Eyes leaving the door
Speaker 4: open to expanding with more investment down the road. I
Speaker 4: do think it's telling though, that this is Amazon providing
Speaker 4: in video chips, not Tramium not as so. On the
Speaker 4: one hand, it's a testament to Amazon's ability to build
Speaker 4: up cloud computing infrastructure at scale to meet Open Eyes needs.
Speaker 4: But you have to wonder what that means about the
Speaker 4: quality of Amazon's own chips.
Speaker 3: We go into that for us because they talk about
Speaker 3: the tens of thousands of video chips that are going
Speaker 3: to be used, but they then talk about the millions
Speaker 3: of potential CPUs that they might eventually help using. Is
Speaker 3: that where Aws's own vertical integration comes from.
Speaker 4: You know it's possible because I think the larger industr
Speaker 4: is also thinking more about investments in inference as opposed
Speaker 4: to training. So with training, you want those GPUs the
Speaker 4: best possible, But with inference CPUs and some maybe second
Speaker 4: tier GPU type chips could meet the needs. So maybe
Speaker 4: that's where we see them play more.
Speaker 3: And then take us to how AWS continues to therefore
Speaker 3: show this twenty percent growth that we saw on the Friday.
Speaker 2: Is it going to be more.
Speaker 3: Deals coming from open Ai? How much farther can they sprawl?
Speaker 3: Or is it more about individual enterprises or sovereign AI
Speaker 3: for example.
Speaker 4: I think it's a little bit of all those. And
Speaker 4: I think what we're seeing with OpenAI in particular is
Speaker 4: that now that the exclusivity arrangement with Microsoft is kind
Speaker 4: of a done deal, they can tap everyone. They already
Speaker 4: have Google as a partner, they have Amazon, They've been
Speaker 4: video brought them everyone, and I think Amazon's ready to
Speaker 4: play ball in that category.
Speaker 3: Well, Soethig, I've been playing ball with us this morning.
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it. Meanwhile, in video, of course, as
Speaker 3: we just talked about it, the GPU supply, it made
Speaker 3: history last week with the first company to ever hit
Speaker 3: a five trillion dollar market cap according to Luke Capital Markets,
Speaker 3: so the company could add trillions more. As in video
Speaker 3: leads the quote golden wave of Genai adoption. Let's get
Speaker 3: out to really most round Plastelica, because all paths lead
Speaker 3: back to in video when we talk about any of
Speaker 3: these compute deals right now, Ryan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, it certainly feels that way. This is the
Speaker 5: latest in a series of street high price targets that
Speaker 5: we've seen on in VideA. Before Loop, we had HSBC,
Speaker 5: which forecasts I think seventy or eighty percent upside. Before
Speaker 5: that we had an additional loop street high price targets.
Speaker 5: People keep sort of outdoing each other trying to estimate
Speaker 5: how high up this stock is going to go. So
Speaker 5: right now, the latest s men points to about eight
Speaker 5: point five trillion market capitalization. Like you said, it just
Speaker 5: hit five trillions, so that points to still a lot
Speaker 5: more potential upside from here. And the story hasn't really changed.
Speaker 5: People continue to see a lot of long term demand
Speaker 5: for all kinds of AI related hardware and infrastructure, and
Speaker 5: certainly it will expand out a little bit. And Vidia
Speaker 5: has a very important software business for example. But in general,
Speaker 5: this is all about the GPUs that have been driving
Speaker 5: the AI trade really for the past couple of years now.
Speaker 3: And look, their GPUs are also part of the Microsoft
Speaker 3: Iron deal that we're talking of today. A nine point
Speaker 3: seven billion dollar look for compute Microsoft using yet another neocloud,
Speaker 3: this time in Australian one. We've also got in the
Speaker 3: news how Alphabet's selling this huge amount of debt to
Speaker 3: be able to finance the overall AI trade and compute purchase.
Speaker 3: But Ryan, you've got a great story and just showing
Speaker 3: how last week, if we reflect a bit, we started
Speaker 3: to be discerning about which companies we're going to celebrate
Speaker 3: AI investment and ones that we're not going to Yeah.
Speaker 5: Absolutely so. Really the poster child on the other end
Speaker 5: of this trade is Meadow That stockfel quite sharply last
Speaker 5: week after it came out, really talked about its expense growth,
Speaker 5: it's campex growth, it's talking about taking write offs in
Speaker 5: all of this. There, I think there is more skepticism.
Speaker 5: People want to see that all of this spending is
Speaker 5: being done in a diligent and disciplined kind of way,
Speaker 5: and that this is really going to lead to some
Speaker 5: kind of pronounced return on all this investment. Now, I
Speaker 5: think there's still a lot of support for AI related
Speaker 5: strategies overall, especially yet companies like Amazon and Alphabet, which
Speaker 5: are showing a pretty direct link between all of this
Speaker 5: spending and improved performance in their cloud computing businesses. But
Speaker 5: for someone like Meta, which doesn't have an equivalent cloud
Speaker 5: type business, the story is getting a little bit trickier
Speaker 5: for them. People are getting a little bit more discerning,
Speaker 5: and like you said, we did see this dot come
Speaker 5: down last week, as I think people just are maybe
Speaker 5: getting a little bit of cold feet.
Speaker 3: What's interesting, Ryan, is also you shine a light on
Speaker 3: how we've had a bit of dispersion outside of the
Speaker 3: key well, mag seven and then some names Brawd, Common
Speaker 3: others thrown in. We've got some of the suppliers to
Speaker 3: the data centers or suppliers to some of these compute
Speaker 3: powers that are also winning. I mean, Micron's another key
Speaker 3: winner on the day, but you shine light and other
Speaker 3: companies that out performed.
Speaker 6: Yeah, certainly.
Speaker 5: I mean it's not purely an a or an mbidious
Speaker 5: story anymore by any stretch of the imagination, anything that
Speaker 5: is involved in any kind of components here. I mean,
Speaker 5: we've certainly seen Broadcom another major winner, Micron, storage companies
Speaker 5: like Steagate and Western Digital, these have been some of
Speaker 5: the biggest performers of the year, and they're a little
Speaker 5: bit less high profile, but They are certainly seeing very
Speaker 5: strong growth inflections because they are just part of the
Speaker 5: overall ecosystem that is required to build out all these
Speaker 5: data centers, power all the data centers, do storage memory,
Speaker 5: all the stuff that is involved with AI and having
Speaker 5: it produce the you know, the material that people are using.
Speaker 5: It's a much bigger trade than it was, you know,
Speaker 5: a couple of years ago, for sure.
Speaker 2: Rand Vastelica always with the must reads. We thank you.
Speaker 3: Let's get more on this AI compute trend that's never ending.
Speaker 3: Tony answer us tro Price Science and Technology from Portfolio Manager.
Speaker 3: Your top holding is in video and all Parsley back,
Speaker 3: but Microsoft's a big one, Broadcom, Alphabet really all of
Speaker 3: the big winners. Is this playing out as you anticipated?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Well, I think that, you know, AI is a huge
Speaker 7: productivity driver in my opinion, and I think that these
Speaker 7: companies are really well positioned to essentially capture that and
Speaker 7: would be the platforms for I think growth in the economy,
Speaker 7: and you know I'm looking for and going forward is
Speaker 7: like you know, the new use cases really come through,
Speaker 7: like agentic AI for example.
Speaker 6: I think it's to fill this capacity.
Speaker 7: It can't just be you and me using chat to
Speaker 7: et it's got to be you know, thousands of agents
Speaker 7: for each company, like making decisions and executing and unlocking.
Speaker 7: I think labor essentially is what I'm looking for, and
Speaker 7: that's what's exciting going forward.
Speaker 3: It's exciting when you see in video's name reference in
Speaker 3: about three of the compute deals just on this Monday alone.
Speaker 3: But take us to perhaps the one that you don't
Speaker 3: hone interestingly, you don't have exposure to Amazon and AWS,
Speaker 3: but it signs it's deal with open AI.
Speaker 2: Hasn't been methodology.
Speaker 3: Around that about its own cloud prowess or perhaps worries
Speaker 3: about the lack of growth that we've seen in previous quarters.
Speaker 3: Bar from the previous numbers they just reported Friday.
Speaker 7: Hey, well, I think that they had a nice earnings report,
Speaker 7: and I do think that there seems to be a
Speaker 7: lot more momentum now, you know, you talk about the
Speaker 7: deal that they just did today and just say like
Speaker 7: rolling out a lot more compute and accelerating a w
Speaker 7: S I think is really good for the business. I
Speaker 7: think they they're well positioned to essentially leverage AI and
Speaker 7: their e commerce business as well as being an infrastructure provider.
Speaker 7: So I don't think you can count them out at all,
Speaker 7: and uh, you know, it's good to see them, you know, outperforming.
Speaker 3: What's interesting is someone who got beaten up as in
Speaker 3: the portfolio, which is Meta. And I'm interested on your
Speaker 3: take of how we're deciding who we reward of capital
Speaker 3: expenditure and who we don't.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think that uh, you know, AI is
Speaker 7: a long term investment for Meta, and I think that
Speaker 7: the market is probably digesting the you know, high end
Speaker 7: level of cappex and the depreciation that's coming through the
Speaker 7: P and L. But I think that's a little bit
Speaker 7: too short term to view it, and you look past that.
Speaker 7: You know, the returns are there and these are going
Speaker 7: to be great investments. And you know, Meta definitely has
Speaker 7: the digital formats to leverage you know, AI and tremendous
Speaker 7: scale across customers, and so I think it's exciting what
Speaker 7: they're doing in the SMB segment as well.
Speaker 6: If it lost a lot of ability for.
Speaker 7: Companies to essentially like reach customers with just a credit
Speaker 7: card and.
Speaker 6: Asking for the ROI from ad campaigns.
Speaker 3: I just want to go to what President and Microsoft
Speaker 3: was telling our network a little bit earlier today about
Speaker 3: the risks of underinvesting.
Speaker 2: Really here we spoke with Brad Smith. Just take are listen, Tony.
Speaker 8: Our biggest challenge is not a risk of getting ahead
Speaker 8: of demand, it's actually keeping pace with demand. And what
Speaker 8: we are finding is that our customers, you know, whether
Speaker 8: they be enterprises across the economy or governments, are nonprofits,
Speaker 8: they are looking to us to build out this capacity.
Speaker 8: They want to use this computer. So for us, if
Speaker 8: we build it, it will be put to use. As
Speaker 8: it's put to use, there will be a return to
Speaker 8: our shareholders.
Speaker 3: You, of course have exposure to Microsoft, Tony, Brad really
Speaker 3: talking about how they're expanding more geographically as well and
Speaker 3: investing over in the Middle East, not just taking money
Speaker 3: from the Middle East. And I'm interested in what you
Speaker 3: think about Microsoft's need to depend on neoclouds. We saw
Speaker 3: them strike a deal with an Australian neocloud provider for
Speaker 3: Texas data centers. Is that something you like to see,
Speaker 3: that use of their money and capital expenditure on neocloud
Speaker 3: as well as their own Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think it allows them to be flexible and nimble.
Speaker 7: I think that standing up these data centers is no
Speaker 7: small feet and a lot of times, it requires various players,
Speaker 7: it requires the data center capacity, the power, and so
Speaker 7: I think it's encouragency Microsoft collaborating with the ecosystem and
Speaker 7: plug in partners and so to.
Speaker 6: Me, I think it makes sense.
Speaker 7: I think it's also a testament to the demand signals
Speaker 7: they're seeing and kind of the workloads.
Speaker 6: Really take off. And you know, I think AI is
Speaker 6: really hard new.
Speaker 7: Not every company that is trying to do it is successful,
Speaker 7: but I think the ones that are finding success are
Speaker 7: you know, seeing tremendous promise, and so I think that's
Speaker 7: what essentially it gives people confidence to invest.
Speaker 2: Here, confidence to keep adding.
Speaker 3: When we've seen runaway performance not just of Nvidio at
Speaker 3: five trillion, but another one of our holdings, Micron for example,
Speaker 3: I mean significant outperformance, when do you decide that you
Speaker 3: want to cash in profit take.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're all constantly managing position sizes in the portfolio.
Speaker 7: But you know, in my opinion, I think that you
Speaker 7: want to be invested in the areas where there is
Speaker 7: essentially a bottleneck, there's scarcity, and that performance depends on it.
Speaker 7: So I think that HPM memory, you know HGDS and
Speaker 7: now you know nand there's there's becoming more of a
Speaker 7: shortage and so to me, the industry is getting better
Speaker 7: and it's a critical component. So you know, from my perspective,
Speaker 7: there is opportunity for these companies to compound value over time.
Speaker 3: You are, of course equity focused, but when we have
Speaker 3: ours bets selling debt in Europe and the US, any
Speaker 3: of that financing of this AI spend give you pause.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I think it's novel.
Speaker 7: But you know, you look at the cash generation of
Speaker 7: a lot of these companies. They're really blue chip and
Speaker 7: you know, to me, I think that this investment is smart,
Speaker 7: and to do some appropriate level of.
Speaker 6: Debt financing I think can make sense.
Speaker 7: In addition, I think that the infrastructure, you know, there's
Speaker 7: a lot of debate of like the useful life of this.
Speaker 7: I know that Invidia comes out with a new generation
Speaker 7: every year, but I think that these are longer lived
Speaker 7: assets than people appreciate potentially, and they're not just like
Speaker 7: three years obsolescence, but probably more like five or six.
Speaker 7: And so you know, in terms of the appetite to
Speaker 7: leap against it, I think that in three or four years,
Speaker 7: it's going to be more commonly accepted. I think we're
Speaker 7: probably on the path there because these are really, like
Speaker 7: I think, you know, revenue generating assets and there's a
Speaker 7: lot of protivity coming off of them.
Speaker 3: And Tony that productivity, as you started the conversation is
Speaker 3: about how we use deploy general to AI.
Speaker 2: Impalent is one.
Speaker 3: That really has but how do they fight also the
Speaker 3: macroheadwinds the government shutdown? Do you have any concerns at
Speaker 3: the valuations that some of these companies trade at.
Speaker 7: Hey, absolutely, I mean these are you know, very elevated multiples,
Speaker 7: and so they need to keep delivering the growth here.
Speaker 7: You know, Paltier is definitely I think at the tip
Speaker 7: of the sphere in terms of implementing AI.
Speaker 6: I mean they started doing that and.
Speaker 7: The government and now the commercial businesses growing rapidly, and
Speaker 7: so you know, I think the government's shutdown, like, I
Speaker 7: think that's probably a temporary thing. They could get a
Speaker 7: pass for that just because government's not going to be
Speaker 7: shut down forever. And you know, you look forward and
Speaker 7: I think what really matters is that they're driving significant
Speaker 7: ROI for their customers and they're able to do it
Speaker 7: in a way that connects their data and I think
Speaker 7: that's like the change in it services is I think
Speaker 7: that you need to come with a solution and the
Speaker 7: engineers to help your customers instead of implementing like a
Speaker 7: Saaspace off the shelf solution.
Speaker 6: So I think that's what's exciting. And yeah, we'll see
Speaker 6: later on today.
Speaker 3: Tony Wang is always great catching up with you. Another
Speaker 3: busy week with volunteer after the bowel. We so appreciate
Speaker 3: your expertise. T ro Price, thank you. Coming up Shaomi's
Speaker 3: pivot from smartphones to elexit vehicles when it may have
Speaker 3: come at a very high human cost.
Speaker 2: We're on that next. This is Blue Mead Tech China Shawmi.
Speaker 3: It's set a relentless pace the pivot from smartphones to evs,
Speaker 3: but it may.
Speaker 2: Have come at a human cost.
Speaker 3: Blumeag spotlight story this week follows the intense schedule of
Speaker 3: one page as he transferred Shami's retail network before ultimately
Speaker 3: collapsing of a heart attack in twenty twenty four. Brim
Speaker 3: Boxspeter Altrastrom joins us Now it's a deeply reported story
Speaker 3: through the bravery of a widow who is convinced that
Speaker 3: it was his work schedule that in many ways contributed
Speaker 3: to his death At the age of thirty four, Peter.
Speaker 9: That's right. So Wang was one of the key managers
Speaker 9: as Shaomi, the company best known for its smartphones, decided
Speaker 9: that they were going to push into electric vehicles. The
Speaker 9: founder late June, said this was going to be one
Speaker 9: of his last strategic plays for the company. He had
Speaker 9: really earned a fantastic reputation for himself in the smartphone arena,
Speaker 9: but he wanted to succeed in EV's too. Remember this
Speaker 9: is something that Apple tried and wasn't able to pull off.
Speaker 9: Shaomi has actually designed a very good car. They've been
Speaker 9: able to succeed in the market. They've been able to
Speaker 9: gain some traction in that space. But Wang was one
Speaker 9: of the key employees who was responsible for redesigning stores
Speaker 9: as they were shifting these us from really showcases for
Speaker 9: smartphones to something that could show you an auto, full
Speaker 9: size automobile that would have the infrastructure to be able
Speaker 9: to show that off and demonstrate what kind of cars
Speaker 9: they actually had. So at one point he was responsible
Speaker 9: for two hundred and sixty seven stores. He was working
Speaker 9: almost NonStop hours. His wife told our reporter that he
Speaker 9: would he would frequently work until the wee hours of
Speaker 9: the night. We also saw as we chat messages where
Speaker 9: he was exchanging messages at two thirty in the morning
Speaker 9: and working on and on and on, and as you mentioned, tragically,
Speaker 9: at the age of thirty four, he died of a
Speaker 9: heart attack. And so it's a story really about how
Speaker 9: this extreme, these extreme hours can take a toll on managers,
Speaker 9: especially in an area so competitive like technology.
Speaker 3: Shami has responded in part to our investigation and talking
Speaker 3: about their sympathies that go to the family. But set
Speaker 3: this in the context of nine ninety six of what
Speaker 3: is very much a cultural focus on working extremely hard
Speaker 3: in China and tech.
Speaker 9: Right, Yeah, you're referring to nine ninety six. In China,
Speaker 9: they talk about working from nine am in the morning
Speaker 9: until nine pm, six days a week, which is extremely
Speaker 9: long hours. The World Health Organization defines over work as
Speaker 9: working more than fifty five hours. Now in China they
Speaker 9: work even harder than the United States. It's about forty
Speaker 9: nine hours on average for full time workers, compared with
Speaker 9: forty five in the United States. In the tech industry,
Speaker 9: it's far beyond those kinds of hours. At Shaomi, the
Speaker 9: workers in independent surveys showed that they were working eleven
Speaker 9: and a half hours a day, so you're talking about
Speaker 9: almost sixty hours a week that they were working, and
Speaker 9: Wang seemed to be one of the workers who was
Speaker 9: going even beyond that at this point. So, of course,
Speaker 9: there's a lot at stake here. They're competing for leadership
Speaker 9: in AI, in chips, in electric vehicles, et cetera. And
Speaker 9: there's a lot of money at stake. When you look
Speaker 9: at the most valuable, the wealthiest people in the world,
Speaker 9: they're all tech entrepreneurs led by Elon Musk, of course,
Speaker 9: but you've got Larry Ellison and Jeff Bezos in there too.
Speaker 9: There's a lot of money at stake. There's also geopolitical advantage,
Speaker 9: and Shami was pushing very hard to make this pivot
Speaker 9: into electric vehicles.
Speaker 3: Peteilstrom, thank you so much. It is an emotive story
Speaker 3: and I must read we appreciate it. Now, coming up,
Speaker 3: we'll dig into Apple how it's set for a make
Speaker 3: or break year on the regulatory front as it gears
Speaker 3: up to start twenty twenty six with a one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty billion dollar quarter.
Speaker 2: This is BLUEBG Tech.
Speaker 3: Apple when it's set to kick off it's fiftieth year
Speaker 3: with what's expected to be a nearly one hundred and
Speaker 3: forty billion dollar quarter. For more, Bloomberg's Consumer Tech Managing
Speaker 3: editor Mark Gumman has the details on this week's Power
Speaker 3: On newsletter, hotly read as always Mark and one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty billion is what the math reads out us
Speaker 3: of what their.
Speaker 2: Holiday quarter will look like.
Speaker 3: Important when April is a fiftieth anniversary.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's quite interesting. They normally in the last half
Speaker 10: a decade or so, since the beginning of COVID, haven't
Speaker 10: really given guidance, but for this holiday quarter.
Speaker 6: They're back to that.
Speaker 10: So they said that the quarter would grow ten to
Speaker 10: twelve percent. That's the current quarter of the holiday period,
Speaker 10: and that comes in anywhere between around one hundred and
Speaker 10: thirty five to one hundred and thirty nine billion. Typically,
Speaker 10: when they've given guidance in the past, they've been conservative,
Speaker 10: so they like to sort of smash through that, and
Speaker 10: so you can imagine that internally they're aiming for something
Speaker 10: north of one hundred and forty billion, which obviously would
Speaker 10: be quite impressive given where they've been the last few years.
Speaker 3: And therefore take us where they're going in the next
Speaker 3: year or so. Because Power on really outlines the myriad
Speaker 3: of areas they're trying to leap forward on, not just
Speaker 3: sory but real hardware and chip updates too.
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's a lot going on. You're going to see
Speaker 10: a series of M five related updates to the Mac
Speaker 10: things like the Macmini, the Mac Studio, the MacBook Air,
Speaker 10: and the MacBook Pro across the first nine months or
Speaker 10: so of twenty twenty six. You'll see a foldable iPhone
Speaker 10: at the end of twenty twenty six, perhaps the introduction
Speaker 10: of the smart glasses at the end of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 10: The first three four or five months of twenty twenty
Speaker 10: six are going to be chalk full of things push
Speaker 10: into smart home devices, that home pod with a display,
Speaker 10: the MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air. I mentioned a ton
Speaker 10: of things on the software side related to Siri. So
Speaker 10: it's going to be a pretty jam packed year for
Speaker 10: twenty twenty six. Then you go into twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 10: where you're going to see even more major leaps and
Speaker 10: bounds when it comes to hardware and.
Speaker 2: Want to be the same people at the top.
Speaker 3: How do you see the talent and the focus and
Speaker 3: reworking of Apple continuing a midutes fiftieth anniversary.
Speaker 10: You know, Apple's biggest challenge right now is retaining talent,
Speaker 10: specifically for its AI division, its machine learning folks. They're
Speaker 10: bleeding talent to places like Meta, to Nthropic to Xai.
Speaker 10: It's been very difficult for them to hold on to
Speaker 10: people because Siri, really it has a really bad reputation.
Speaker 10: The big things they're going to be doing for Siri
Speaker 10: to improve it is using a custom model developed by
Speaker 10: Google's Gemini team. It's going to run on Apple servers,
Speaker 10: but Apple's paying Google to develop it, and that's a
Speaker 10: bit of a setback for Apple's internal models team, and
Speaker 10: so they basically for now have split it. Whereas the
Speaker 10: models that run on Apple devices themselves, the ones for
Speaker 10: Apple Intelligence, those are those in house models, which have
Speaker 10: been somewhat problematic depending on who you ask. And then
Speaker 10: for the serie models, they're moving to Gemini to power
Speaker 10: some of it. So it's an interesting dynamic they've created there.
Speaker 2: Our German is always it's a muster read. We so
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Let's check in on these markets because well, we're close
Speaker 3: to record highs and then ask that one hundred. We're
Speaker 3: just up by about three tenths of a percent, as
Speaker 3: the wall of warrior when it comes to geopolitics is
Speaker 3: put to one side as we focus more on earnings
Speaker 3: to come after the ball palanteer, of course, and more
Speaker 3: on what the AI trend is. When it comes to compute,
Speaker 3: let's focus in on that the two key points contributors.
Speaker 3: Don't ask that one hundred are these two stocks.
Speaker 2: Amazon up four point six percent, a new record high.
Speaker 3: It's now worth two point seven trillion dollars, But that kind.
Speaker 2: Of pales into significance for me.
Speaker 3: Think with a five trillion that in video is now
Speaker 3: worth and that's because all.
Speaker 2: Roads lead back to in video GPUs.
Speaker 3: This time Amazon striking a deal with open Ai to
Speaker 3: offer many many GPUs in further data centers, a seven
Speaker 3: year relationship with open Ai now as they turn ever
Speaker 3: further into compute and data centers for various places.
Speaker 2: But look, it's not the only wall of news we
Speaker 2: have on compute.
Speaker 3: And Microsoft is another one that's planning to spend more
Speaker 3: than seven point nine billion dollars on data centers, on
Speaker 3: cloud computing and employees all over in the United Arab Emirates.
Speaker 3: And it's over the next four years capitalizing on a
Speaker 3: US government clearance to ship AI chips to the Gulf nation.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Microsoft Vice chair Bradsmith explained.
Speaker 3: Why just during an interview with Bloomberg's Jomano Basecci in
Speaker 3: Abadab earlier today.
Speaker 8: If you look at the UAE, the UAE now literally
Speaker 8: leads the world in the percentage of the population using
Speaker 8: AI fifty nine point four percent. One Singapore about a
Speaker 8: point behind is number two. Well, but what we're seeing
Speaker 8: here in the UAE is across the economy, whether it's
Speaker 8: companies like ADNOC and the energy sector, or the financial
Speaker 8: services or the healthcare sector, all of this is being
Speaker 8: quick to.
Speaker 2: Work discuss all of this.
Speaker 3: Oubrimegs pready for who covers Microsoft for US, And this
Speaker 3: was Brad trying to articulate, we expand in there. We've
Speaker 3: got the ability and the permission. Why do they want
Speaker 3: to be building out and expanding in the Middle East?
Speaker 11: Because they need power? Right, The Golf is a very
Speaker 11: interesting market for data centers because in the US and
Speaker 11: Europe in many ways they're kind of tapped for power.
Speaker 11: Everyone is kind of scrounging for a megawatt here or there,
Speaker 11: and the Golf, you know, they have oil power and
Speaker 11: they are really keen to want to diversify their economies
Speaker 11: and it seems like a pretty natural fit for data
Speaker 11: center companies. So we've seen Microsoft, we've seen Oracle want
Speaker 11: to expand their presence out there, and today is kind
Speaker 11: of the latest example of Microsoft coming out to say,
Speaker 11: look at all the money we're this is a serious
Speaker 11: bet for.
Speaker 3: US and capal expenditure that they did articulate in their
Speaker 3: earnings just last week. But Microsoft's been perhaps more upfront
Speaker 3: than many as to how they're having to use other
Speaker 3: offerings neoclouds in particular, they've been leaning on Nscale and
Speaker 3: Nevia sover in Europe, but here in the US they're
Speaker 3: going ever more into Texas, but with an Australian company.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 11: Yeah, we saw them make about a ten billion dollar
Speaker 11: deal with an Australian company this morning, and it's funny
Speaker 11: because ten billion sounds huge, but it's really like what
Speaker 11: fifteen percent of what they've announced so far. I mean,
Speaker 11: the spending quantities here are really getting hard to fab
Speaker 11: and Microsoft has committed around sixty billion to a variety
Speaker 11: of providers just to be able to rent these AI
Speaker 11: chips quicker.
Speaker 3: And what's interesting is IRN is one of those sources
Speaker 3: of power and compute that all used to be in
Speaker 3: crypto and another one of those that now suddenly finds
Speaker 3: itself the darling of an AI trade exactly.
Speaker 11: Yeah, Corey is the classic example this, you know, crypto
Speaker 11: market crash and all of a sudden they said, hey,
Speaker 11: wait a second, AI data centers is the way forward.
Speaker 11: And Microsoft's been the most kind of prominent customer of
Speaker 11: these neo clouds. But you know, we expect over time
Speaker 11: that every major hyperscaler looking for capacity is going to turn.
Speaker 3: To these companies, And when we think about the scale
Speaker 3: and the numbers, it can just become almost arbitrary. But
Speaker 3: I think the three trillion dollar figure that Morvid Stanley's
Speaker 3: wrapped its head around is an important one, right, that
Speaker 3: three trillion of data centers are likely to be built
Speaker 3: out by twenty twenty eight, But actually half of that's going.
Speaker 2: To come from their own money, and then maybe the
Speaker 2: rest is.
Speaker 3: Coming from debt markets in the light, but Microsoft really
Speaker 3: does seem to be talking up how it's leaning on
Speaker 3: its own cash flows.
Speaker 11: Correct its own cash flows. But part of the neo
Speaker 11: cloud stuff that's interesting is that they are leases right,
Speaker 11: you are leasing. If you build a data center, you're
Speaker 11: stuck with it for a good twenty years, right, you
Speaker 11: lease for five years. If the demand environment changes at
Speaker 11: the end, you say, well, thank you, nebis it's been beautiful. Right,
Speaker 11: So it gives them a lot more financial flexibility. I
Speaker 11: think we should see that within the context of hyperscalers
Speaker 11: apping unique financing sources. Even like Google hitting the bond
Speaker 11: market today, you lead.
Speaker 3: Us perfectly to unnecessarily already four we are as one.
Speaker 2: We so appreciate you as always. And meanwhile he said it.
Speaker 3: Alphabet looking to raise about fifteen billion dollars from a
Speaker 3: dollar bond.
Speaker 2: Sale in the United States. According to sources, the dealer
Speaker 2: is being.
Speaker 3: Offered in many as eight parts maturities ranging from three
Speaker 3: to fifty years.
Speaker 2: But the company's also tapping the.
Speaker 3: European market seven and a half billion dollars of notes
Speaker 3: in Europe too. And this all adds to a wave
Speaker 3: of borrowing from tech companies. Remember METUS thirty billion one
Speaker 3: last two week. And it's all about investing aggressively in AI.
Speaker 3: And let's dig into the impact of all of this
Speaker 3: AI financing a little bit further. Anna RATHMNS with us,
Speaker 3: founder and CEO of Grenadilla Advisory. You think this is
Speaker 3: smart the way in which that they're tapping debt markets
Speaker 3: or depending on their own cash flow.
Speaker 12: Good morning.
Speaker 6: I did think it's smart.
Speaker 12: I mean, sometimes cash on hand is the most powerful thing,
Speaker 12: and so it doesn't make sense to spend all of
Speaker 12: your cash and put it into you know, the future
Speaker 12: investment and AI. Sometimes it makes sense to borrow from
Speaker 12: the debt market and to finance it and so that
Speaker 12: you have some leeway and some flexibility in what you
Speaker 12: want to do with the assets that you have.
Speaker 3: And what about even more creative financing such as these
Speaker 3: private credit deals in the way in which we've seen
Speaker 3: blue ol be Meta's partner of choice here, is that
Speaker 3: what you're likely to see more of, not just ever
Speaker 3: more debt being tapped, but just off balance sheet.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think so. You know, private credit market is
Speaker 12: constantly looking for ways to deploy their capital that they're
Speaker 12: getting from the investors. And right now the investment that
Speaker 12: seems the most exciting seems to be this data center
Speaker 12: and AI play. And if we heard from Microsoft and
Speaker 12: others last week during the earnings call, the demand is
Speaker 12: just out of this world. And they're having a hard
Speaker 12: time supplying that demand and therefore I think you're going
Speaker 12: to see more of it. And by the way, people
Speaker 12: are worried about this off balance sheet financing. In my opinion,
Speaker 12: it's dangerous if you don't know about it. But everyone
Speaker 12: knows about it, so you can definitely put that into
Speaker 12: your calculation for the valuations of these companies.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's really interesting because in many ways Meta has
Speaker 3: led the way in that creativity a messagal b not
Speaker 3: last week because of their capital expenditure, and perhaps it's
Speaker 3: becoming in a more rapid clip than the revenue growth
Speaker 3: that we're seeing. And how do you make the discernment
Speaker 3: that's currently happening among the AI players.
Speaker 12: Yeah, with regards to Meta, I think there are a
Speaker 12: lot of things that were idiosyncratic. I mean, if we
Speaker 12: were to think about the cat stack, if debt is issued,
Speaker 12: equity investors don't like it, right, But if you look
Speaker 12: at the debt market, a lot of investors in the
Speaker 12: debt market actually liked it, and there was a lot
Speaker 12: of demand for it. But there was also the deal
Speaker 12: about Meta not being a hyperscaler, investors wondering where all
Speaker 12: of the investments are going and they're going to invest
Speaker 12: more of it, So that's meta. But everyone else, I
Speaker 12: think there is a race here and there's a bit
Speaker 12: of a fomo in all of the AI players, and
Speaker 12: there's a higher risk to missing out than to spend
Speaker 12: today and to see where we are tomorrow, because I
Speaker 12: think the demand is still going to be high tomorrow.
Speaker 3: But is that fomo leaching into the investment community and
Speaker 3: is that a good way in which to invest one's money?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 12: So here here are a few things I think people
Speaker 12: thinking about valuations, and that's myself included. It's very very
Speaker 12: high compared to historical norms. It's nerve wracking, but it's
Speaker 12: a short term sentiment driven play. Data is subject to
Speaker 12: a lot of noise and it's going to happen. There
Speaker 12: may be a correction or people are going to get nervous. However,
Speaker 12: if you're a long term investor, like a lot of
Speaker 12: our clients are, you're going to take a look at
Speaker 12: the fundamental value add of these data center buildouts and
Speaker 12: AI moves, and I do think that there is something there.
Speaker 12: If you look at the S and P five hundred
Speaker 12: index and the companies in there, how many can actually
Speaker 12: do the AI play. How many have them have the expertise,
Speaker 12: the vision, the balance sheet capacity to do all of this,
Speaker 12: and they are just a few. And that's one of
Speaker 12: the reasons why investors who want to put capital into
Speaker 12: the AI play had no choice but to go into
Speaker 12: it in the public markets.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 12: So, I think the valuations, although they are high, they're
Speaker 12: telling us something about the future growth of these companies
Speaker 12: and AI in.
Speaker 3: General, and that can withstand what has been a torrid
Speaker 3: time of geopolitics of angst of trade.
Speaker 2: And I think it's interesting that you said it's noisy.
Speaker 3: It's been really noisy in other players, like rare earth stocks,
Speaker 3: for example, tumbling today because well maybe China will continue
Speaker 3: to export and many had run up MP materials and
Speaker 3: other players thinking that we would be cut off more
Speaker 3: significantly from rare earth materials that were necessary for this
Speaker 3: whole AI trade. What do you make of some of
Speaker 3: the highs and the lows in ultimately a geopolitical war.
Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, if we think back to the sheet
Speaker 12: Trump meeting from last week, in my mind, I think
Speaker 12: saying that it's a one year truce is a little
Speaker 12: bit misleading, right, So it might not be fully one year.
Speaker 12: We might have a surprise even next month.
Speaker 6: Who knows.
Speaker 12: And the truth part is also misleading because what I
Speaker 12: think is we just de escalated. We just went back
Speaker 12: to where we were about two months ago. So it
Speaker 12: means that we're going to continue to negotiate, but behind
Speaker 12: the scenes, we're going to continue to push this forward
Speaker 12: in terms of actually racing each other. What happened after
Speaker 12: that meeting was that mister Trump came back to the
Speaker 12: United States, but mister she stayed and talked about having
Speaker 12: like an international body that governs AI. There is a
Speaker 12: lot of push here to having more power in AI
Speaker 12: and also in national security. This is just going to
Speaker 12: get more heated as we turn into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: Wow, good place to leave it and a good food
Speaker 3: for thought for the investor base and Rathman, we appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Founder and CEO of going to did our advisory. The
Speaker 3: final day is in a closely watched campaign here and
Speaker 3: you know, perhaps not the local elections you're thinking of.
Speaker 2: We're talking about will.
Speaker 3: Shareholders vote to approve a trillion dollar package for Eno
Speaker 3: Musk Well.
Speaker 2: Of course that decision is about more than just money.
Speaker 3: Control of the company shareholder value, corporate governance issues, they're
Speaker 3: all at play here.
Speaker 2: Let's speak with the University of.
Speaker 3: Arkansas law professor Rob Anderson about all of this. You
Speaker 3: are a retail investor in Tesla, and you're very active
Speaker 3: within the ex community of teserati or tezl retail investors
Speaker 3: more broadly, Professor Anderson, but just lay it out for
Speaker 3: us as an active investor. Talk to us about the goals,
Speaker 3: the milestones, how you interpret them as well as being
Speaker 3: a professor in corporate governance, Are they that hard to
Speaker 3: achieve for En Musk to get what could be up
Speaker 3: to a trillion dollars in pay.
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, thank you for having me on. I mean,
Speaker 13: there's been a lot of talk about how large potential
Speaker 13: awards are here, but I think there hasn't been enough
Speaker 13: talk about how ambitious this plan actually is. Requiring Elon
Speaker 13: Musk to throw this company to eight point five trillion
Speaker 13: in market capitalization and four hundred billion in ebit DA,
Speaker 13: So I think, you know, this is ultimately a question
Speaker 13: of what will this company be able to retain Elon Musk,
Speaker 13: who I think it's fair to say his value has
Speaker 13: been priced into the shares already quite significantly, And it's
Speaker 13: more than just, in my opinion, more than just a
Speaker 13: good idea to approve this pay package. It's actually essential
Speaker 13: for this company to transition to that the next stage
Speaker 13: that's contemplated by the award.
Speaker 3: You talk about the eight and a half trillion that
Speaker 3: they need to reach in terms of market cap, but
Speaker 3: there's also the milestones. Twenty million cars, how many in MFSD.
Speaker 3: You've got to see what million robots out there?
Speaker 2: An army that he calls them.
Speaker 3: But Professor, what's interesting is Summer pointed out potential caveats here.
Speaker 3: They've talked about the board potentially being able to award
Speaker 3: him perhaps the first three tranches of the money promised
Speaker 3: if perhacks. There's the milestones were interfered with in some way.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's disaster's war, maybe it's inferenced by government, but
Speaker 3: also just other unspecified circumstances.
Speaker 2: So does that give you any pause from a corporate
Speaker 2: governance perspective.
Speaker 13: Well, I mean not not really. I mean it's normal
Speaker 13: for force masure type consideration to be taken into account.
Speaker 13: I mean, somewhat somewhat ironically, when ISS recommended a vote
Speaker 13: against it, it you know, took into account that it
Speaker 13: specified that there was a lack of precision in some
Speaker 13: of the milestones, but also simultaneously said that the milestones
Speaker 13: didn't give the board enough discretion in the future to
Speaker 13: adjust it. So, you know, I think there's it's a
Speaker 13: no win situation in terms of writing a plan like this,
Speaker 13: because obviously unexpected events can occur that you can't fully
Speaker 13: anticipate in writing the plan. So I don't think I
Speaker 13: don't I don't think those are particularly problematic. I mean,
Speaker 13: you know, I think probably the most common criticism I've
Speaker 13: heard is that the initial the first step of a
Speaker 13: milestone at two trillion dollar market cap, people would say
Speaker 13: have said it's too easy to achieve. But I think
Speaker 13: what that doesn't fails to appreciate is that the market
Speaker 13: is already priced in the fact that it believes this
Speaker 13: pay package will pass and that Elon will be retained
Speaker 13: for at least some period of time. So it's priced
Speaker 13: in his value already, and it's a situation where he's
Speaker 13: kind of cursed by his own success of you know,
Speaker 13: making the milestones easier to achieve because it's already priced
Speaker 13: in the value of his contribution. So you know, I
Speaker 13: sort of feel like some of the criticisms have been
Speaker 13: a bit unfair in that regard.
Speaker 3: Well, some of the criticisms more broadly have been almost
Speaker 3: reminiscent of what happened in twenty eighteen, and the idea
Speaker 3: that basically corporate governance is lacking is a lot of
Speaker 3: people on the border too close to him. How do
Speaker 3: you think that this pay package in twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: arenswered that?
Speaker 13: So, I mean the pay package now had the benefit,
Speaker 13: if you want to call it, that of a completely
Speaker 13: adjudicated Delaware opinion on that twenty eighteen pay package. So
Speaker 13: they were able to address just about everything that the
Speaker 13: Chancellor identified in that including a totally different having a
Speaker 13: special committee this time with totally different composition, addressing all
Speaker 13: the procedural aspects that the Chancellor took issue with in
Speaker 13: the court opinion, as well as producing an extensive report
Speaker 13: that is more extensive than anything that I recall seeing
Speaker 13: in recent memory to try to address all those concerns.
Speaker 13: In addition to of course the shareholder vote.
Speaker 3: You are, of course a shareholder. Musk himself is a
Speaker 3: significant shareholder. He wants to be more of a significant one.
Speaker 3: He's got about fifteen percent that he could put weight
Speaker 3: behind he in Texas is allowed to vote for his
Speaker 3: own pay package in this respect, So many say, actually,
Speaker 3: this is just going to pass, but it's more idea
Speaker 3: of the court of public opinion. They need to pass
Speaker 3: with such a majority to prove that this is born
Speaker 3: out right.
Speaker 2: What do you make of that role? Do you think
Speaker 2: that it's it's will pass with.
Speaker 3: Flying colors in that respect and enough to stop the
Speaker 3: criticism continuing.
Speaker 6: I think it will.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think the I think the shareholders other than
Speaker 13: Musk and Kimball will vote very substantially in favor of it. Frankly,
Speaker 13: the main criticism I here are certainly not coming from
Speaker 13: the retail shareholders, who overwhelmingly are not just supported, but
Speaker 13: I think are are nervous that it won't pass by
Speaker 13: by enough. And I think you know the value that
Speaker 13: Musk brings this company. It's it's undeniable. If if if
Speaker 13: he left tomorrow, you can imagine what would happen to
Speaker 13: the stock price. And so I think it's unfair not
Speaker 13: to give him the benefit of that of the fact
Speaker 13: that the stock price has gone up. By looking at
Speaker 13: it now at one hundred and thirty thirty dollars. Since
Speaker 13: this pay package is even announced right, so the market
Speaker 13: loves it. I don't see any criticism there. Really, it's
Speaker 13: just the sort of rigid voting restrictions of the proxy
Speaker 13: advisors that are going to be the obstacle here. It's
Speaker 13: the cookie cutter approach they have to apply because they
Speaker 13: have to try to treat Tesla like every other company
Speaker 13: when it's it's not similar to a hired CEO who's
Speaker 13: come in from the outside to manage a mature company.
Speaker 13: This is a founder led company.
Speaker 3: Anwance approach from Professor Rob Anderson. We appreciate it from
Speaker 3: the University of Arkansas. Thanks for joining us and a
Speaker 3: retail investor in Tesla. Now coming up Palentier shoes there
Speaker 3: are up ahead of companies earnings.
Speaker 2: Later today, we'll discuss what to expect next. It's a
Speaker 2: brute BG Tech earning season.
Speaker 3: It rolls on an AI balls where they're going to
Speaker 3: be watching Palenteer closely.
Speaker 2: It reports after the bell.
Speaker 3: The stock's already is you can see one hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy percent let's call it on AI enthusiasm. But most
Speaker 3: Lazett Chapman joins us now and there are high expectations
Speaker 3: fifty percent increase in revenue. Just talk us through what's
Speaker 3: going to fuel that growth, lizet right.
Speaker 14: So, like you said, there is a lot of built
Speaker 14: in anticipation eagerness around this. We're going to be see
Speaker 14: they've beat the last four consecutive quarters. We're going to
Speaker 14: see if they're going to beat that again or maybe
Speaker 14: they're going to fall short. What we're going to be
Speaker 14: looking for is whether they're able to translate these small,
Speaker 14: smaller customer deals, these one million dollar deals into ones
Speaker 14: that expand into you know, ones that that really drive
Speaker 14: the US commercial deals as well as international that's on
Speaker 14: the commercial side. On the government side, we're going to
Speaker 14: be looking at how things are going here domestically as
Speaker 14: well as internationally with the boost that they've seen that
Speaker 14: they've invested in the UK and a lot of NATO
Speaker 14: expansion efforts as well. So we're going to be looking
Speaker 14: to see whether they've been able to you know, continue
Speaker 14: to to expand the sizes of those deals.
Speaker 3: I mean, government spending for them in defense in particular
Speaker 3: has been such a tailwind. But we're also amid a
Speaker 3: government shutdown. Is it is that any sort of headwind.
Speaker 14: The people that we've spoken to indicate that is unlikely
Speaker 14: because of the lumpiness and long term nature of these contracts,
Speaker 14: that doesn't seem to be a major factor that we
Speaker 14: have anticipated so far. And what we will be looking
Speaker 14: at going forward though, is again like, you know, will
Speaker 14: they be and then where and how? And traditionally international
Speaker 14: sales have been much softer than the US ones, and
Speaker 14: you know, CEO Alex Karp has repeatedly said, you know,
Speaker 14: it's US commercial growth driving this, So we'll see if
Speaker 14: that continues to be the case or whether they've been
Speaker 14: able to boost their strength abroad.
Speaker 3: I mean, really analyst calling out the uncharacteristically large beats
Speaker 3: and raises that we've had prior quarters from Alex Carp
Speaker 3: and team.
Speaker 2: Is that what he needs to do?
Speaker 3: The the narrative, because boy is he good at driving narratives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is.
Speaker 14: A great question, and I think the markets are going
Speaker 14: to tell us right.
Speaker 2: You know, he has a.
Speaker 14: Famously very antagonistic relationship with Wall Street. He considers financial
Speaker 14: results of vulgar and inadequate way to judge a company success,
Speaker 14: and he's consistently married the financial results with what he
Speaker 14: considers is a philosophical mandate to create AI software for
Speaker 14: the use of the US defense forces and allies, and
Speaker 14: so that's going to be what he's driving towards. So
Speaker 14: there is not just the focus on profit, but also
Speaker 14: there's there's some philosophical support that he may get or
Speaker 14: may not.
Speaker 3: We'll get to that philosophy after the bows that Chapman,
Speaker 3: it's always great to have you on.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. That does it. But as addition
Speaker 2: to bring the tech, don't forget to check out our podcast.
Speaker 3: You can find it on the terminal as well as
Speaker 3: online on Apple, Spotify.
Speaker 2: An I heart from New York. It's a brittybag tech.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm
Speaker 13: Hm