1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Not too 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: long ago, we had an episode on Ida tar Bell. 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: We particularly talked about her investigative reporting into John D. 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: Rockefeller and Standard Oil, and something we mentioned in that 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: episode is that Rockefeller later on tried to revise his 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: public image from ruthless Robert Baron to philanthropist and family man, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: and he did that with the help of a man 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: named Ivy Ledbetter Lee. Ivy Lee was one of the 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 1: founders of the fields of public relations and crisis communications, 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: although for a lot of folks I think the more 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: familiar name is probably Edward Burnet's. Some of this maybe 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: because Berne's career was longer and more recent. Ivy Lee 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: was the older of the two of them by only 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: about fifteen years, but he died in nineteen thirty four, 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: while Berne's lived all the way until. Berne's is also 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: a lot more self promotional, which may play into it too, 19 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Like we've had listener requests for Edward Burnet's but not 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: really for Ivy Lee. Some people might also point to 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: the scandals that unfolded at the end of Lee's career 22 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: is a reason why he's not as well known today 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: we will be talking about their scandals, but honestly, big 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: chunks of Bernet's career we're pretty scandalous also, So I mean, 25 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: I feel like scandal off and makes people more memorable, 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: so that one doesn't totally hold water for Yeah, well, 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: I I think in particular, well, we were talking more 28 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: about the end of Lee's career of course at the 29 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: end of the episode, but there are parts of it 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: that I can kind of see why if you are 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: in the field of public relations, you might not want 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: to talk about that as part of the world of 33 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: one of the founders of your feet field. So anyway, 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: even though Edward Berne's probably has more general name recognition today, 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: Ivy Lee's approach to public relations was really revolutionary for 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: the time, and he helped establish a lot of the 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: practices that still exist in the field today. And the 38 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: work that he did is a publicist continues to have 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot of influence on the world that we're living 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: in now. So Ivy led Better Lee was born on 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: July six, eighteen seventy seven, in Cedartown, Georgia. He was 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: the oldest of six children born to the Reverend James 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: Wideman Lee, who was a Methodist minister, and Emma you 44 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: Falla led Better. Ivy grew up in Atlanta and St. Louis, 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: as his father was transferred among various Methodist churches in 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: those two cities. Ivy Lee studied at Emory College for 47 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: two years before transferring to Princeton, and at Princeton, one 48 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: of his mentors was future US President Woodrow Wilson. Lee 49 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: studied economics, and one of his yearbooks described him this way, quote, 50 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: what he doesn't know about trusts is not worth knowing. 51 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: Lee worked for the campus newspapers at both schools, and 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: as a football correspondent for other college and university newspapers. 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 1: He also helped pay for school as a campus correspondent 54 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: for newspapers all over the Northeastern US and eventually for 55 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: the Associated Press. He reported several exclusive stories thanks to 56 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: former President Grover Cleveland, who had retired to Princeton. This 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: included getting a statement from Cleveland after the U S s. 58 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: Maine exploded in Havannah Harbor in That was also the 59 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: year that Lee graduated from Princeton with honors. He used 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: a five hundred dollar debate prize to pay for some 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: time at Harvard Law School, but he used up that 62 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: money pretty quickly. After that, he moved to New York 63 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: and from n o three he worked as a journalist 64 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: for several New York newspapers, and he used some of 65 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: his income from that to study political science at Columbia University. 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: During those years in New York, he also married Cornelia 67 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: Bartlett Bigelow, and they went on to have three children. 68 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: Those were Alice, James the Second and Ivy Jr. But 69 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: as is the case today, there wasn't a lot of 70 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: money in reporting, especially for people who were just starting 71 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: their careers, so in nineteen o three Lee decided to 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: go into public relations. Of course, people have been using 73 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: information to try to influence people's opinions and perceptions for 74 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: pretty much as long as there have been societies, but 75 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: this was in the earliest years of public relations as 76 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: a field. The term public relations to describe relationships between 77 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: organizations or influential people in the public and the effective 78 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: management of those relationships, was first used in writing in 79 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: Lee used a range of terms to describe what he did, 80 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: including publicity, which has a slightly different connotation today. Lee 81 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: started out as publicity manager for the New York Citizens Union, 82 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: backing the re election campaign of Mayor Seth Low. The 83 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: Citizens Union was trying to unseat New York's immensely powerful 84 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: Tammany Hall political machine. Although Low had managed to defeat 85 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: the Tammany candidate in the earlier election, this time around 86 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: he was defeated. After this, Lee went to work for 87 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: the Democratic National Committee. During the four presidential campaign, he 88 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: represented Alton B. Parker in his race against the incumbent 89 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt. Of course, Parker lost this election as well, 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: although Lee's candidate lost both elections. During these campaigns, he 91 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: started developing techniques that would become a huge part of 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: his career. For example, on the Low campaign, he wrote 93 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: a book called City for the People, The best administration 94 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: New York ever had. This book explained the various reforms 95 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: that Low had implemented, as well as the many scandals 96 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: of his predecessor, Tammany politician Robert A. And Wick. It 97 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: used clear, straightforward language, while also using lots of bold 98 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: type underlines and i catching headlines to emphasize the points 99 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: of the book. Similarly, during the Parker campaign, Lee and 100 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: his colleague George Parker, who was no relation to the candidate, 101 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: created a two sided card. This was headlined the President's 102 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: dream of war on one side and Judge Parker's plea 103 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: for peace on the other. The war side quoted Roosevelt quote, 104 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: if we ever grow to regard peace as a permanent condition, 105 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: and feel that we can afford to let the keen, fearless, 106 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: virile qualities of heart and mind and body sink into disuse, 107 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: we will prepare the way for inevitable and shameful disaster 108 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: in the future. Then the peace side had a quote 109 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: from Parker that began quote, the display of great military 110 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: armaments may please the eye, and for the moment excite 111 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: the pride of the citizen, but it cannot bring to 112 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: the country the brains, brawn, and muscle of a single immigrant, 113 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: nor reduce the investment here of a dollar of capital. 114 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: After the presidential campaign was over, Ivy Lee and George 115 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: Parker started one of the first formal pr firms in 116 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: the US. In nineteen o six, Lee wrote a declaration 117 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: of principles which read, in part quote, this is not 118 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: a secret press bureau. All our work is done in 119 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: the open. We aim to supply news. This is not 120 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: an advertising agency. If you think any of our matter 121 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: ought properly, go to your business office, do not use it. 122 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: Our matter is accurate. Further details on any subject treated 123 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: will be supplied promptly, and any editor will be assisted 124 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: most cheerfully in verifying directly any statement of fact in brief. 125 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: Our plan is frankly and openly on behalf of business 126 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: concerns and public institutions to supply the press and public 127 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: of the United States prompt and accurate information concerning subjects 128 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: which it is of value and interest to the public 129 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: to know about. I send out only matter, every detail 130 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: of which I am willing to assist any editor in verifying. 131 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: For himself. Lee didn't necessarily always live up to these 132 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: ideals in terms of things like transparency and accuracy. We 133 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: will get to that over time. He also recognized that 134 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: there were some limits to what he could fix for 135 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: his clients if their behavior was truly egregious, So, at 136 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: least to an extent, he tried to counsel his clients 137 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: to do better, and then he publicized those improvements to 138 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: try to gain or regain the public's trust. A lot 139 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: of this sounds very basic today, but at the time 140 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,359 Speaker 1: it was groundbreaking. By the late nineteenth century, the relationship 141 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: between big businesses and the public was broadly speaking, not good. 142 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: In eight two, a reporter from the New York Times 143 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: was asking railroad magnet William H. Vanderbilt about possible fair 144 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: reduction and express service. When Vanderbilt seemed to be complaining 145 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: about how little money he made off of passengers as 146 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: compared to freight service, the reporter asked, quote, but don't 147 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: you run it for the public benefit, and Vanderbilt answered 148 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: the public be damned. Vanderbilt later said his comments had 149 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: been misreported and misrepresented, but to a lot of the 150 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: American public, that quote really summed up the worldview of 151 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: industries and industrialists. And then, on top of that perception 152 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: that industries just did not care about the public, a 153 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: lot of businesses routinely refused to speak to reporters. Instead, 154 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: they would try to keep any accidents or other incidents 155 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: from becoming public knowledge. So, just as an example, if 156 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: passengers were killed in a railroad accident, the railroad would 157 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: usually try to cover it up. They would refuse to 158 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: give interviews bar reporters from the accident site, maybe even 159 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: bribe them to keep quiet with some free train tickets. 160 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into the specifics of how Lee 161 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: worked with his clients after we pause for a sponsor break. 162 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: Ivy Lee's public relations career developed towards the end of 163 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: the Progressive era in the United States, and it was 164 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: influenced by that era's ideals of civic engagement and corporate accountability. 165 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: It was also influenced by his upbringing as the son 166 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: of a Methodist minister and his father's approach to his ministry, 167 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: specifically that included things like trying to bridge the gulf 168 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: between evolutionists and creationists, and a proposal that Ivy's father 169 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: made to create a cathedral of cooperation in Atlanta that 170 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: was meant to bring together Protestants, Catholics, and Jews. At 171 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: the same time, though, Ivy Lee was usually working on 172 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: behalf of businesses and industries and austrialists, including some of 173 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: the most maligned industries in the United States, like the 174 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: coal industry. In nineteen o six, George F. Bear, president 175 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: of the Philadelphia and Reading Railroad, hiredly to represent the 176 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: anthracite coal industry. The railroad and coal industries were deeply connected, 177 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: and a few years earlier, during the coal strike of 178 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: nineteen o two, the industries had followed their typical pattern 179 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: of refusing to talk to reporters. Meanwhile, labor organizers and 180 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: striking workers had happily given interviews, garnering a lot of 181 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: sympathy as they talked very candidly about low pay, long hours, 182 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: and difficult and dangerous working conditions. So when another strike 183 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: was developing in nineteen o six, Bear and his colleagues 184 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: wanted to have somebody on their side, and that someone 185 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: was Ivy Lee. One of his first steps was to 186 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: publicly assure the press that the coal operators would be 187 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: providing them with all possible information. That declaration of principles 188 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: that we read before the break was something he sent 189 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: to newspapers as part of Lee's work with the coal mines. 190 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: Soon he was also working for the railroads. On October 191 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: nineteen o six, a train ran off a drawbridge outside 192 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: of Atlantic City, New Jersey, and more than fifty people drowned. 193 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: Lee issued a statement to the press which began quote, 194 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: on account of the difficulty of raising the trucks of 195 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: the cars out of the water, the Railroad officials have 196 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: not been able to discover the cause of the accident. 197 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: They have ascertained, however, that there was no defect in 198 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: either the drawbridge or its mechanism to cause the derailment. 199 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: The bridge, both stationary and movable parts, is of the 200 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: most approved modern type. This is usually cited as the 201 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: first modern press release. The rest of this release offered 202 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: a lot of reassurances that the company was working to 203 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: raise the wrecked car ours from the water and to 204 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: conduct a thorough investigation. The New York Times printed this 205 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: release without any kind of alteration, without any analysis or 206 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: questioning of its contents. That was pretty revolutionary that somebody 207 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: could just send a statement on behalf of the company 208 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: and it would just be printed and whole cloth went 209 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: right to print. Uh. In addition to this release, Lee 210 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: also advised railroad officials to be available to the press 211 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: with industry experts on hand. He arranged for reporters to 212 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: travel to the accident site by train paid for by 213 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: the company. In spite of this releases reassurances, though the 214 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: likely cause of this accident was a problem with the 215 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: drawbridge mechanism, which had not reconnected itself properly after the 216 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: last time the bridge had opened. Lee also tried to 217 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: improve the railroad industry's public image. Beyond just dealing with 218 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: the aftermath of specific accidents. He encouraged the railroads to 219 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: make safety improvements and to increase employees pay, at least 220 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: to the extent that it would make a favorable impression 221 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: on the public. He also provided them with positive media coverage. 222 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: For example, he wrote an article for Moody's in nineteen 223 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: o seven that detailed all kinds of philanthropic efforts, from 224 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: creating public parks to establishing scholarship funds. Railroads really had 225 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: funded all these projects, but Lee didn't disclose that they 226 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: had also paid him to write the article. Lee's influence 227 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: trickled through the railroad industry, and in nineteen o eight 228 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: he became part of the Pennsylvania Railroads Publicity Bureau. Eventually 229 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: he became an executive assistant to the railroad president, where 230 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: he tried to have a positive influence on the railroads policies. 231 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: His pr efforts included things like getting the public to 232 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: accept an increase in fares, which is something he also 233 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: did for the New York City Subway in nineteen ten. 234 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: Ivy Lee took a three year break from public relations, 235 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: making a brief foray into international investment banking that was 236 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: something he thought was going to have an increasing influence 237 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: on society. He went to England to open up investment 238 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: offices in London and then Paris in Berlin, and he 239 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: lectured at the London School of Economics in nineteen eleven 240 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: and nineteen twelve, but he ultimately returned to the US 241 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: and to his work as a publicist. A lot of 242 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Lee's pr work so far had involved industries that were 243 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: inherently pretty disliked and distrusted by a lot of the 244 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: American public, But in nineteen fourteen, he took on a 245 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: job that would be particularly controversial for a family that 246 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: was deeply reviled. The previous year, about ten thousand miners 247 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: in Colorado had gone on strike in an effort to 248 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: get better pay and working conditions and recognition of their 249 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: union through the United Mine Workers of America. The Colorado 250 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,359 Speaker 1: Fuel and Iron Company or cf and I had evicted 251 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: the striking workers from the company towns where they lived, 252 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: and then the striking workers had started living in tense cities. 253 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: Months later, on April nineteenth, nineteen fourteen, the Colorado National 254 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Guard and private security surrounded one of these camps in Ludlow, Colorado, 255 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: and for unclear reasons, they opened fire. Twenty Five people 256 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: were killed, including two women and eleven children who had 257 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: been sheltering in a pit dug under the tents. This 258 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: sparked ten days of violence in which about fifty people died. 259 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: This was part of a long and violent labor uprising 260 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: known as the Colorado Coalfield War. John D. Rockefeller Jr. 261 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: Owned about forty of the CF and I, and the 262 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: Rockefeller family already had a reputation for ruthlessness, something we 263 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: talked about in that earlier episode on Ida Tarbell. So 264 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: after this John Jr. Became the public's biggest target. The 265 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: union and the strike workers already had their own PR team, 266 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: who popularized the name Ludlow Massacre for the violence of 267 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: April nineteen. Newspaper editor Arthur Brisbane was a friend of 268 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: Rockefeller's and told him he knew somebody who could help. 269 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: That somebody was Ivy Lee. So Lee embarked on a 270 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: comprehensive public relations plan on behalf of Rockefeller and the 271 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: c F and I. In addition to other Mainling's interviews 272 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: and newspaper and magazine articles. This campaign focused on a 273 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: series of nineteen printed bulletins. These were later compiled into 274 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: a collection called The Struggle in Colorado for Industrial Freedom. Yeah, 275 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: they're they're presented as a series one in series two, 276 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: and they have a whole lot of overlap between them 277 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: and those two collections. These bulletin's laid out the mining 278 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: industries views from a number of angles. Some of them 279 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: outlined the same kinds of anti union arguments that still 280 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: circulate today, stuff like the United Mine Workers being an 281 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: outside organization that was acting against the interest of the 282 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: workers themselves, that most of the workers didn't want to 283 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: be in the union, and that mine workers in Colorado 284 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: were paid more than mine workers in any other state 285 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: and therefore they did not need a union. Here is 286 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,239 Speaker 1: a quote as an example quote, the fight of the 287 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: Colorado coal mine managers is not against union labor. The 288 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: principle of collective bargaining is not at stake. The struggle 289 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: in Colorado was against the domination of a particular organization, 290 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: the United Mine Workers of America. It's sort of the 291 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: we don't mind if our workers unionized, just not that union. 292 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: And some of the information in these bulletins was factual 293 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: on the surface, but it was presented in a deceptive way. 294 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: One is called how Colorado Editors view the coal strike. 295 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: This bulletin acknowledged that some of the striking workers demands 296 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: were things they were entitled to under Colorado law, and 297 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: that the law should be upheld, but it also argued 298 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: that they already made enough money and they should drop 299 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,959 Speaker 1: their demand for the union to be recognized. It's not 300 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: mentioned that the statements were gathered at a conference where 301 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: only fourteen of the states more than three hundred editors 302 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: were present, and that the eleven who had signed a 303 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: report all worked for newspapers that were owned by the 304 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: mining companies. Although Lee seems to have only printed things 305 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: that he thought were true, about half of these bulletins 306 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: had factual issues. Especially before he personally traveled to Colorado 307 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: to talk to people, He got most of his information 308 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: from mining operators, and he seems to have taken what 309 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: they said at face value. His most egregious error was 310 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: reporting the annual salary of several workers and organizers as 311 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: their salaries for just nine weeks, making it look like 312 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: they made a whole lot more money than they made 313 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: which suggested there was some kind of grift going on, 314 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: and although he issued a correction on that the uncorrected 315 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: numbers were really widely circulated. One of the bulletins also 316 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: stressed that the women and children who had been killed 317 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: while taking shelter in the pit had burned or suffocated 318 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: in a fire that was caused by an overturned stove 319 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: and not by being shot. The implication here is that 320 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: they died because of their own carelessness. This did not 321 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: acknowledge that the stove had been overturned while the camp 322 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: was surrounded and being fired upon. Multiple articles floating around 323 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: about Ivy Lee Today also claimed that he just made 324 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: up a lot of the information and these bulletins, including 325 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: saying that he accused labor organizer Mother Jones of running 326 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: a brothel. If he did say this, it was somewhere 327 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: other than in these bulletins, and it was also probably 328 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: something that somebody from the company told him, not something 329 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: he just made up himself. Unfounded allegations that Mother Jones 330 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: had previously run a brothel or had otherwise done sex 331 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: work date back to at least nineteen o four, and 332 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: a gossip magazine called Polly pry One of Lee's bulletin's 333 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: was devoted to mother Jones, though, and it included this 334 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: all caps statement quote, I confidently believe that most of 335 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: the murders and other acts of violent crime committed in 336 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: the strike region have been inspired by this woman's incendiary utterances. 337 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: I feel like incendiary Utterances would be a great name 338 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: for an autobiography um This strike ended unsuccessfully from the 339 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: miners point of view. In December of nineteen fourteen, their 340 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: union was not recognized and their demands were not met. 341 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: Shortly thereafter, Ivy Lee was called to defend his work 342 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: before the U. S Commission on Industrial Relations. This was 343 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: one of many appearances he made before congressional committees, commissions, 344 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: and regulatory agencies that were investigating his role in possible wrongdoing. 345 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: Although many of the questions he was asked implied that 346 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: he had been paid to lie on behalf of the company, 347 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: he insisted that everything he had done was in good 348 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: faith and that any errors brought to his attention were 349 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: corrected as quickly as he could. This was the beginning 350 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: of years of work with the Rockefeller family, and we 351 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: will talk about that and other parts of his later career. 352 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: After another quick sponsor break. After the Colorado mind strike 353 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: was over, ivy Lee was elected director of the c 354 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: f and I. In nineteen fifteen, he published a book 355 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: called Human Nature and the Railroads, which explored various problems 356 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: within the railroad industry and how those problems might be addressed, 357 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: as well as how to use crowd psychology to change 358 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: public perceptions about the industry. That same year, he took 359 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: a staff position as one of John D. Rockefeller's seniors advisers. 360 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: As we have said before, the public as a whole 361 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: was not a fan of the Rockefeller's or of John 362 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: Senior in particular. Ivy Lean knew that it would not 363 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: change public opinion if he wrote a bunch of articles 364 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: telling Rockefeller's side of the story on how he became 365 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: the wealthiest man in the United States. Instead, he encouraged 366 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: Rockefeller to do even more philanthropy and to start publicizing it, 367 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: something that Rockefeller didn't want to do because he thought 368 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: that that was course and braggy. Lee encouraged Rockefeller to 369 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: fund the building of Rockefeller Center and the restoration of 370 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: Colonial Williamsburg. He wrote articles about Rockefeller's efforts to eradicate 371 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: hookworm disease. He invited newsreel reporters to come to the 372 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: Rockefeller home to see John Senior at family birthday celebrations 373 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: and handing out dimes to children, things that made him 374 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: seem human and not like a corporate monster. Right. Lee 375 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: also tried to arrange for an authorized biography to be written. 376 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: I started out by scheduling a round of golf with 377 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: Rockefeller and journalists William O. Engliss, and that first golf 378 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: game became an article called playing a Round of Golf 379 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: with John B. Rockefeller, one of many humanizing articles about 380 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: Rockefeller's golf games. After about ten more years of playing golf, 381 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: English did write a biography, but early readers of it 382 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: suggested that it was just too flattering to be taken seriously, 383 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: so they didn't wind up printing it. Then it eventually, 384 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: some years down the road, get an authorized biography done, 385 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: but at that point Ivy Lee had passed away and 386 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: was not part of the story. In nineteen sixteen, Lee 387 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: established a new PR firm, one that evolved over a 388 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: series of names and partners. Over the next few years, 389 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: he took on increasingly high profile clients, many of which 390 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: had troubling histories that needed to be addressed include eating Phelps, Dodge, 391 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: armor meats, Anaconda steel, and standard oil, and some would 392 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: become more troubling later on, like American tobacco. Perhaps unsurprisingly 393 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: given his association with the Rockefellers Rockefeller having made a 394 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 1: lot of his money by consolidating industries, Lee also advocated 395 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: for collaboration among businesses rather than competition between them. He 396 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: helped establish multiple institutes and industrial groups that were meant 397 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: to advocate on behalf of entire industries, including the American 398 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: Petroleum Institute, the International Sugar Council, and the Cotton Yarn Association. 399 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: Although he became really one of the go to people 400 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: for industrial PR work, he also had some prominent detractors. 401 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: Carl Sandberg called him poison Ivy Lee, and that was 402 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: a name that was then picked up by Upton Sinclair. 403 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: During World War One, Ivy Lee took a full time, 404 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: unpaid position for the American Red Cross to increase the 405 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: public's awareness of the Red Cross and its work, and 406 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: to use the Red Cross as a source of positive 407 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: PR for the United States and its allies. Lee tried 408 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: to resign from this position in nineteen eighteen, citing quote 409 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: certain mathematical equations I am compelled to face, but he 410 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: was convinced to stay until the end of the war. 411 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: Other pro bono work during his career included the United 412 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: Hospital Fund of New York, the Henry Street Settlement, the 413 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: Episcopal Pension Fund, and the Cathedral of Saint John the Divine. 414 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: After World War One was over, Lee was hired by 415 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: the Transatlantic Passenger Conference to promote international travel by sea 416 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: and to help that industry recover from the sinking of 417 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: both the Titanic and the Lusitania. He also worked to 418 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: improve americans opinions of Europe as a vacation destination as 419 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: Europe recovered from the war. A lot of things people 420 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: had heard about Europe at that point had been returning 421 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: soldiers telling about that they had seen these war torn countries. 422 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: Another client was motion picture production and distribution company Famous 423 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: Players Laski, whose reputation was suffering due to charges of 424 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: unfair business practices and various Hollywood scandals. We talked about 425 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: the business practices in our two partern on the Paramount 426 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: decrees in and the scandals in our episode on the 427 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: Murder of William Desmond Taylor. Lee wasn't directly involved with 428 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors Association, or the adoption 429 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: of the Haze Code, but it did grow out of 430 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: the approach that he was using with his film industry clients. 431 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: During his career, Lee also encouraged the Guggenheim family to 432 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: establish the Guggenheim Foundation. He promoted the field of aviation, 433 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: including arranging promotional tours for Richard E. Byrd after he 434 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: became the first person to fly over the North Pole 435 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: and Charles Lindbergh after his solo flight across the Atlantic. 436 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: Both of those tours were spat third by the Goggenheim Foundation. 437 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: Some of Lee's work in the nineteen twenties had an 438 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: international focus. He helped France, Poland and Romania get financing 439 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: from international financial institutions to help with their rebuilding effort, 440 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: using his PR methods to garner support. He was also 441 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations when 442 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: it was established in nine. He didn't stop working within 443 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: the US though, after the Battle of Blair Mountain. In one, 444 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 1: which is yet another previous episode of the podcast, he 445 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: once again worked on the side of the mining companies 446 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: try to repair their reputations. This included printing bulletins called 447 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: The Miners Lamp and Coal Fax, which included such articles 448 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: as company Stores Protect the mine Workers pocketbooks. That same year, 449 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: he also worked on behalf of General Mills predecessor Washburn Crosby, 450 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: promoting the character of Betty Crocker as a way to 451 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: sell baking ingredients. He helped develop the name and branding 452 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: for gold Medal Flower to imply that it had a 453 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: superior quality, and he worked with the company on a 454 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: serial campaign that stressed the importance of a hearty breakfast, 455 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: something we are still hearing today, sure are. He was 456 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: still working with the Rockefellers throughout all of this. In 457 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: the late nineteen twenties, he encouraged John D. Rockefeller Jr. 458 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: To fund the construction of Riverside Church. Its first pastor 459 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: was Henry Emerson Fostick, who had his own connection to 460 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: Ivy Lee. Lee had personally paid for the publishing and 461 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: distribution of fostics influential nine sermon titled Shall the Fundamentalists Win? 462 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: The sermon advocated for Christianity to be open minded, tolerant, 463 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: and intellectual, and Postick credited Lee's distribution of it with 464 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: it having had any impact at all. Lee also handled 465 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: the publicity for John Dy Cackefeller Junior's daughter in nineteen 466 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: twenty four, surrounding her wedding, including issuing a wedding invitation 467 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: to every major newspaper, establishing a press section at the church, 468 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: and specifying what reporters were and we're not allowed to 469 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: take pictures of and include in their stories. In nineteen 470 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: twenty five, Lee wrote one of the first books on 471 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: public relations, called Publicity Some of the Things It Is 472 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: and Is Not. He also published The Press Today in 473 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: ninety nine, and some of Lee's most controversial work took 474 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: place in the nineteen twenties and thirties. I feel like 475 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: a lot of what we've talked about has been controversial 476 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: so far, and now we're taking it to another level. 477 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: During his lifetime, he made five trips to Russia and 478 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, both before and after the Russian Revolution. 479 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: He wrote a book called USSR A World Enigma in 480 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty seven, and then revised it into present day 481 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: Russia in nineteen the eight. Although he acknowledged that the 482 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: USSR was the dictatorship, his treatment of people like Joseph 483 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: Stalin was so favorable overall that critics accused Lee of 484 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: being on the Soviet payroll. He insisted that he was 485 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: not paid for any of this work, that he had 486 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: pursued it out of just a personal interest. He was 487 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: also a strong advocate for the US to acknowledge the 488 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: Soviet government and to open up trading relations. As a note, 489 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: Gareth Jones, the Welsh journalist we discussed in our episode 490 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: on the Whole of the more recently worked for Ivy Lee. 491 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: If Lee publicly revised his opinions on Russia or Stalin 492 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: after jones Is reporting, Tracy did not find that in 493 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: her research, Yeah, he even when they were traveling together. 494 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: It seems like Jones had a much clearer idea of 495 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: conditions that were affecting people than Lee, who had a 496 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: lot of really positive spin that did not talk so 497 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: much about problems with things like hunger and poverty. And 498 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: then in nine Lee started representing the American affiliate of 499 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: German chemical conglomerate I G. Farban. He was paid three 500 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: thousand to four thousand dollars a year to work with 501 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: companies like Aga Photo and Bear. But about three months 502 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: after Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in nineteen thirty three, 503 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: Lee was put on a retainer of twenty five thousand 504 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: dollars a year to consult for I. G. Farban's German headquarters. 505 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: His son, James the Second, was also given a full 506 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: time position in Germany in support of this effort. Because 507 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: of his writing about Russia, people already thought Ivy Lee 508 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: was a propagandist for foreign governments, so it did not 509 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: take long before he was accused of distributing Nazi propaganda. 510 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: He was called to testify before the McCormick Dickstein Committee, 511 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: which was the earliest iteration of the House Committee on 512 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: Unamerican Activities. Lee testified in a closed session on May nine, 513 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: thirty four, and since he was in Europe during the 514 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: public hearings that followed that, his testimony was read into 515 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: the public record on July eleven. The New York Times 516 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: reported on this the next day under the headline quote 517 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: Ivy Lee as adviser to Nazis paid twenty five thousand 518 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 1: dollars by Die Trust. A lot of the English language 519 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: reporting at this point calls IG Farban the Die Trust. 520 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: That's basically what the name translates to. This ran next 521 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: to an article on the Night of the Long Knives 522 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: titled gring is blamed for Nazi killings. In his testimony, 523 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: Lee summed up his relationship with I. G. Farbin this 524 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: way quote, the directors of the company told me they 525 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: were very much concerned over the German relationships with the 526 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: United States and antagonism toward Germany in the United States. 527 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: They wanted advice as to those relations could be improved, 528 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: so they made an arrangement with me to give them 529 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: such advice. Lee insisted that he had not distributed any 530 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: German material of any kind in the United States and 531 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: that his role with ig Farban in Germany was an 532 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: advisory one. But he also talked about personally meeting with 533 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: Hitler and with Minister of Propaganda Joseph Garbo's and with 534 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: other Nazi party leaders. And he also made it clear 535 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: that his intent was that at least some of the 536 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: advice that he gave to ig Farban's leadership would be 537 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: passed along to the German government. Some writers, including biographer 538 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: ray Elden Hibert, have said that Lee hoped his work 539 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: with I. G. Farben would lead to Nazi Germany changing 540 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: its actual policies, but his testimony before the Congressional Committee 541 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: really did not suggest that it sounds more like he 542 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: was kind of telling Germany how to handle the US. 543 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: For example, quote, I have told them that they could 544 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: never in the world get the American people reconciled to 545 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: their treatment of the Jews, that it was just foreign 546 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: to the American mentality and can never be justified in 547 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: the American opinion, And there was no use trying. In 548 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: the second place. Anything that savored of Nazi propaganda in 549 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: this country was a mistake and ought not to be undertaken. 550 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: Although the New York Times article that we referenced largely 551 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: struck to quoting Lee's actual testimony, a lot of the 552 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: other news reporting about this at the time was really sensationalized. 553 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: A lot of it claimed that Lee was working as 554 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: a Nazi propagandist in the US, like giving Americans Nazi propaganda. 555 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: That is something that really wasn't supported by his statements 556 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: or by any evidence that was introduced in the hearings. 557 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: But people outside the news media were heavily critical of 558 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: him as well. It wasn't just a matter of sensationalized reporting. 559 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: Before meeting with Hitler, Lee contacted American and back that 560 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: are William Dodd as a courtesy and DoD described this 561 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: conversation this way in his notes quote Ivy Lee showed 562 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: himself at once a capitalist and an advocate for fascism. 563 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: He told stories of his fight for Russian recognition and 564 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: was disposed to claim credit for it. His sole aim 565 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: was to increase American business profits. Lee contacted Dot again 566 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: after the meeting with Hitler to update him on it, 567 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: and DoD observed a shift in Nazi communications after that point. 568 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: Writing of Gebel's quote, it was plain that he was 569 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: trying to apply the advice which Ivy Lee urged upon 570 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: him a month ago. Later on, Dodd described Lee as 571 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: quote the clever big business propagandist who has been trying 572 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: for a year or more to sell the Nazi regime 573 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: to the American public. So an important thing to note 574 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: here is that while many of the Nazi parties and I. G. 575 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: Farban's most egregious and horrifying acts were still to come 576 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: when all of this happened, and persecution and violence toward 577 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: Jewish people were already ongoing. It is possible that an 578 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: uninformed American who didn't have any ties to Germany or 579 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: to the Jewish community might have been ignorant of what 580 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: was happening in Germany. But Lee's career required him to 581 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: be knowledgeable and well read. The training program for new 582 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: associates at the PR firms that he established during his 583 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: career required them to read a broad range of newspapers 584 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: and periodicals from all over the world, all over the 585 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: political spectrum, and to travel broadly to expand their own knowledge, 586 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: so this is something he would have known. His congressional 587 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: testimony also makes it clear that he was aware of 588 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: international concerns that Germany was re arming itself in defiance 589 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: of the Treaty of Versailles, and he said that he 590 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: had quote sent suggestions as two points which should be 591 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: covered by responsible Germans, which would tend to make clear 592 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: to the American people what the attitude of Germany was 593 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 1: on the armament question. We do not know Whetherly would 594 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: have recanted this work in light of what happened later 595 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: when reporters found him on vacation at the thermal baths 596 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: in Boden, Germany, as this news broke contrary to his 597 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: own advice, he refused to give a statement, and then 598 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: he died of a brain tumor on November nine, four, 599 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: just four months after all of this became public. This 600 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: developed really suddenly. A month earlier, he had been at 601 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: a meeting with the executive board of the Pennsylvania Railroad 602 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: and during the meeting he had a brain hemorrhage and 603 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: could not remember who he was talking to. His doctor 604 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: suggested that the tumor had probably started to develop right 605 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: about the time he had come under fire for his 606 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: work with I. G. Farban. Yeah, there are some some 607 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: write ups on him a sort of a founder of 608 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: the field of public relations, that really try to give 609 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: him a pass on all this. They're like, he was 610 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: cleared of all charges of distributing propaganda. Sure he wasn't 611 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: distributing propaganda in the US, but he was definitely trying 612 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: to tell Nazi Germany like how to have a better 613 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: relationship with the United States, not really seeming to have 614 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: qualms about what was happening in Germany and how the 615 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: Nazi Party was treating its own people. Although the last 616 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: months of Lee's life had been marked by accusations of 617 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: anti Semitism and being a Nazi propagandist, and then also 618 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: a renewed focus on his most controversial pr jobs that 619 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: kind of resurfaced as part of that criticism he still 620 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: had his supporters. John D. Rockefeller Jr. Wrote a letter 621 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: to Lee's widow, Cornelia that's set in part quote from 622 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: the early days of my contact with your husband, it 623 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: became clear to me that his point of view was 624 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: the same as ours, that complete sincerity, honesty, and integrity 625 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: were the fundamental prince of holes, which regulated his daily 626 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: life and upon which his every action was based. What 627 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: he did for us in the Colorado situation, and in 628 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: the general relation of our family and business interest to 629 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: the public thereafter, was of greatest value. Lee's firm kept 630 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,479 Speaker 1: representing the Rockefeller's until John D. Rockefeller Junior's death. There 631 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: are so many aspects of Lee's pr work that have 632 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: carried through until today. Some examples, multiple historians and climate 633 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: reporters have traced today's disinformation about the climate change crisis 634 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: back to groundwork that was laid by Ivy Lee. The 635 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: name Guggenheim is far more associated with art and philanthropy 636 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: than with the American smelting and Refining company. After Nelson A. 637 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: Rockefeller was elected governor of New York in night, Drew 638 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: Pearson of The Washington Post wrote that it never would 639 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: have happened had Ivy Lee not connected the Rockefeller name 640 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: to philanthropy and good works. So yeah, that is i'vey 641 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: led better Lee, who I have a lot of feelings about, 642 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: some of which I'm sure we'll talk about more in 643 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: Behind the Scene. Indeed, do you want to talk about 644 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: listener mail in the meantime? I do want to talk 645 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: about listener mail in the meantime. So we got an 646 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: email from a Purva who wrote and said, Hi, I 647 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: have a podcast about my birthtown in India, the side 648 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,439 Speaker 1: of the biggest disaster you've never heard of, the bull 649 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: pall Gas tragedy. Here's the blurb. And then a Perva 650 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: sent the blurb that comes along with the podcast, which 651 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: is cows sometimes wander into graze in the grass surrounding 652 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: Union Carbide, an abandoned American pesticide factory in bull India. 653 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: More often than not, these cows end up dead, choking 654 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: on the same poison that suffocated ten thousand people on 655 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: December second. Uh And so this description of the podcast 656 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: goes on to described that it's the work of a 657 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: Provid dix It and a Purvouse childhood best friend, Molly mulroy, 658 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: and it's a seven part podcast called they knew which 659 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: way to run. UM. We get a lot of emails 660 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: about podcasts that people are launching, and we can't typically 661 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: talk about a ton of them on the show, but 662 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this one in particular, UM 663 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: because I was nine when this happened, and I remember it, 664 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: I remember the news coverage of it. It is something 665 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: that has been on, like the listener submitted idealist, for 666 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: a long time, but it's also a bit more recent 667 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: than we normally talk about, and its recency and the 668 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: fact that there are a lot of people who survived 669 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: it who are still alive today sort of adds some 670 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: complexity to whether we could do it justice. UM. So 671 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,479 Speaker 1: I was really, uh, really happy to learn that that 672 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: this podcast exists now. As of when we are recording 673 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: this episode, only two episodes are out UM, and I've 674 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,760 Speaker 1: listened to both of those episodes. It's seven parts total, 675 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: so more of them, maybe all of them will be 676 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: out by the time this episode is out. A lot 677 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: of the episodes content was recorded in India with people 678 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: who survived or who lost family members, or who lived 679 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: in the area and weren't directly affected but have memories 680 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 1: of the after effects of it and all of that. Um, 681 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: it's a really good example of how folks who have 682 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: a different background and a different approach than Holly and 683 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: I have can really take a part of history that 684 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: would be uh a lot more difficult for us to 685 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: really do justice too. So again, um, this is called 686 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: They Knew Which Way to Run. I've been listening to 687 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: it on Apple Podcasts. I'm sure it's on lots of 688 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: other podcast platforms as well. So new episodes come out 689 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: every three weeks, so it may not all seven may 690 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 1: not be out yet by the time this episode comes out. 691 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 1: But I am looking forward to listening to them. Also, 692 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: thank you Apoorva for sending us this ail letting us 693 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: know about your show. If you would like to write 694 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 1: to us about this or any other podcasts where history 695 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: podcasts that I heart radio dot com and we're all 696 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: over social media. Ad Missed in History That's real, fund 697 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, in Instagram, and you can subscribe 698 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: to our show on the I heart Radio app and 699 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 1: wherever else you get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in 700 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For 701 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I heart 702 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 703 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,280 Speaker 1: favorite shows.