1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff, a production of I Heart Radio, 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Hey brain Stuff. Lauren Bolgabam here with today's question, what's 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: the oldest book in the world. At Bulgaria's National Museum 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: of History, there lives one top runner, a book comprising 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: six pages of beaten twenty four carrot gold covered with 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: a Truscan script, which is one of the few writing 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: systems that modern scholars have yet to fully comprehend, mostly 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: because there are so few lengthy examples of its surviving. 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: The book also features illustrations of a horse rider, a mermaid, 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: a harp and soldiers. According to reports, the book, exhibited 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand three, was estimated at about two thousand, 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: five hundred years old, was found in southwestern Bulgaria in 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: an old tomb, and was donated to the museum by 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: the finder, who remained anonymous. Its age and authenticity were 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: confirmed by two independent scientists whose names also remain unknown. 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: This book is often cited as the world's oldest book 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: because it is the oldest book containing several pages that 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: we know about. There are older pages around, but not 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: bound together in any books, but the case isn't closed. 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: The question of what is the oldest book in the 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: world will likely never be answered. First, there's the question 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: of what exactly is a book? Books are slippery artifacts. 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: Think of your most read paperback novel. It has a 24 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: physical presence, a specific shape and form that fits on 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: a shelf and requires dusting. It also has a non 26 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: physical form, the story itself and what it means to 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: you and the memories and emotions it conjures. And so 28 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: is the book more of a physical presence or is 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: the content more important than the shape or do they 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: both play an equal role? And take it a step 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: further and ask what if your favorite book wasn't printed 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: but handwritten, and that's still a book. What about if 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: you read it on an electronic device or it was 34 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: narrated to you. If printing defined what a book was, 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: then the oldest book would be the Guttenberg Bible, printed 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: in about fourt Of course, that was printed with movable type. 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: Chinese cultures were printing pages of book like structures using 38 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: carved wood plates and simple presses hundreds of years before Guttenberg. 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: And then take the Egyptian pharaohs. Their scribes were creating 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: songs and prayers to them close to three thousand years ago, 41 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: but these were on papyrus scrolls, which could be considered 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: a book, albeit with only one very long page. When 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: writing the article this episode is based on the staff 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: at house stuff works dot Com interviewed Laurent Ferry, a 45 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: curator of rare books and manuscripts at Cornell University, about 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: all of this. He explained, these are questions scholars are 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: still wrestling with. For me, a book would be defined 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: by having a binding and supporting a world view by 49 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: this definition, and the collection of clay tablets maintained by Cornell, 50 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: also the largest collection in the world, wouldn't be considered 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: the world's oldest books. They aren't bound, and most are 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: legal proceedings or financial accountings, and don't espouse a worldview. 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: With his own definition in mind, for he said his 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: bet on the oldest books in the world would be 55 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: Homer's Iliad and the Epic of Gilgamesh. Indeed, the British 56 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: Museum's version of the Gilgamesh tale, written on clay tablets, 57 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: dates to about the seventh century d C. However, the 58 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: tablets aren't bound, so they're technically not a book in 59 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: that way, but they do come close, especially in the 60 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: sense that they propose a certain view of the world, 61 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: but we don't really know when the stories started or 62 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 1: how they evolved. For he said, this is another situation 63 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: to consider. These two stories are the product of a 64 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: very long oral tradition. We know roughly when the text 65 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: was fixed, but the stories pre existed the physical book, 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: and so the questions turn. Some people believe the Bible 67 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: was written shortly after the world was created, making it 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: necessarily the oldest book. Yet biblical scholars say the books 69 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: that make up the Bible were written over many hundreds 70 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: of years, and that many of the stories included in 71 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: it were set down centuries after the events that they 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: explore happened. Bringing religion or other worldviews into the question 73 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: begets more twists and turns. The eaching. The foundation book 74 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: for Daoist philosophy was allegedly written more than two thousand 75 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: years ago, and there are likely other more obscure religions 76 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: that claim to have a toe hold in centuries further 77 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: in the past, and that there are more recent printings 78 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: are merely modern manifestations of those ancient texts. For free, 79 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: the quest for the world's oldest book is just that 80 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: a quest, he said, If you find the oldest book, 81 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: you find, the oldest truth, the oldest revelation. This is 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: a rev elation of original things. This is what humans 83 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: always look for. So although today's question will likely never 84 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: be answered conclusively, this may not be a bad thing. 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: The simple asking of the question leads to insight, whether 86 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: from an archaeological perspective or a philosophical perspective, and it 87 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: addresses the ultimate point of books, whether they're on clay 88 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: tablets or online. Summed up by free we wouldn't be 89 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: human without books. Today's episode is based on the article 90 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: what is the oldest book in the World on how 91 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com written by Eric Baxter. Brain Stuff 92 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: is production of I Heart Radio in partnership with how 93 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com and is produced by Tyler Klang. 94 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 95 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 96 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: favorite shows.