1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin, and here's the thing. The impact of 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: divorce on children is something I think about a lot. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm divorced and have a daughter. Erica Jong knows a 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: lot about divorce. She's been married four times. That's why 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: I wanted to sit down with Erica and her daughter, 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Molly Joan Fast. Both mother and daughter are writers. Erica 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: is best known for her nineteen seventy three book Fear 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: of Flying, of feminist classic about liberation in many forms. Molly, 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: a mother of three kids herself, published her second novel, 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: The Social Climber's Handbook earlier this year. Molly's father is 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: Jonathan Fast, Erica's third husband. I lived with Jonathan for 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: two years before we got married. But how long between John, 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Allan John and Jonathan About two years between them? You 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: were there, You were with Allan John, when you met 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: my dad. When these two good going, you step back 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: and get out of their way. What did you learn 17 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: about marriage from your parents? Mom? Can I answer the 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: question honestly? Honestly is the only way? Well? I would say, 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: have you seen Kramer versus Kramer? That was my general 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: impression of marriage for my upbringing. But you know my 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: mom had some good, useful suggestions, but ultimately I sort 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: of had to find my own way, though she did 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: eventually marry a really great guy and they've been married 24 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: for twenty one years, and he's a divorce lawyer. He's 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: a practicing divorce Yeah, he is. And Molly used to say, 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: when I married him and then she married the one, 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: you can never divorce the divorce is he a good guy. 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: He's a really good guy. He's a totally menchi person 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: and I like him better than when I married him, 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: which was easier for you to write about sex or divorce. 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: Sex divorce was the hardest thing I ever went through. 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: I have a friend who said to me once when 33 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: he was getting divorced from his wife, who could believe 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: that after we were in the delivering room together, after 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: I watched that baby come out, who could believe we'd 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: ever be apart? Divorce is terrible. Divorce is difficult. We 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: have it's a chaos, we have no rules for it. 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: It's so incredibly painful. What was it like for you 39 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: to deal with your parents divorce? Your parents divorce as 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: an only child? Who did you talk to? Who did 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: you do? Obese nanny from Trumbull, Connecticut, and she was 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: my confidie. Like crumpets, those tasty cake everything. Um, I 43 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: think I mean Cramer Versus Kramer was a great movie 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: because that was my story, and it was a lot 45 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: of kids stories. It was just a really gruesome seventies 46 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: divorce and that's what they had. During that time. Divorce 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: wasn't set up the way it is now now. If 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: you have a divorce, there's no way that a mother 49 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: is going to lose custody. Certain things are known. Back then, 50 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: it was a totally unknown world of divorce. Let me 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: just I don't want to get carried away by divorce 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: being different in different decades, because I'm not sure that's true. 53 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: I think it may look that way to you, Molly, 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: but I think divorce is a catastrophic event for children, 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: for women from men. It's very, very difficult to go through. 56 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: It is traumatic. When you come to the other side 57 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: of it, you say, I will never do that again, 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: which is why I was single for nearly a decade 59 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: between Molly's dad and Ken, because I wanted to make 60 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: sure I would never make that miss. But after you 61 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: have three divorces, Yeah, you were divorced, Yes, what made 62 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: you believe success was awaiting you with your current husband? 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: What gave you the We stamped on our wedding invitation 64 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: a triumph of hope over experience, which came as the 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: result of what how did you triumph? Ken have been 66 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: married three times? I had been married three times. We 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: were very cautious about tying the non You were not 68 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: that cautious because you've only been together for three months. 69 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: When you go both, that's right? Am I right? Is 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: she right? We married after we knew each other three months. 71 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: But this isn't an amazing and it's been most successful 72 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: with him. Yeah, but there are certain things about me 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: and Ken. We grew up in similar circumstances. Our parents 74 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: were depression era people. We knew that you couldn't be 75 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: married and fool around. You couldn't be married. Two secrets 76 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: to their marriage. They have different bathrooms right there, each 77 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: of their own bath and they're tired. They're too tired 78 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: to do new curtains and bookshelves. The reason why we 79 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: got married rather than lived together was because he said 80 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: to me, if we just lived together, one day, we'll 81 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: have a fight and you'll say I'm leaving, or I 82 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: will We have a bad record. If we get married, 83 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: we know we're going to make it work. Marvin Worth, 84 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: Marvin Great, Marvin Worth. He was Lenny Bruce's manager, then 85 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: went on to become a famous movie producer. Produced Malcolm X, 86 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: the movie with Spike Lee, famous movie producer. He was 87 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: from Brooklyn. He had the heaviest New York accent of 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: any man I've ever heard him. And I said to him, 89 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: how did you and Joan do it? How have you 90 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: and John been married for for forty years? Like it 91 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: was that you don't fight? And he said to me, 92 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: uh do Joan? Then I fight? We fight every day, 93 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: We fight all day. What we do is fight, he said, 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: But then we after we're done fighting. I say, Joan, 95 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: I'm not going anywhere, and you're not going anywhere, So 96 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: what are we gonna do about this problem? I'm not 97 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: going anywhere. That's what Kennan I wanted, like leaving is 98 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: not an option. And actually this is very funny because 99 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: he says I'm not going anywhere, just what Marvin said, 100 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: and I say, I couldn't stand anyone else. And part 101 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: of it is we really make each other laugh all 102 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: the time. When we have a disagreement, we always get 103 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: it out there. We don't hold it in. Now that 104 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: I have kids, I feel like what they don't tell 105 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: you about marriage is that marriage? I mean, what don't 106 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,559 Speaker 1: they tell you? The marriage is incredibly hard work. Molly 107 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: got married at but Molly's hole childhood and upbringing had 108 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: been different from mine. I married my first lover, my 109 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: college sweetheart. I had no experience with anybody else when 110 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: I married him. That was very much my generation. Molly 111 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: sewed her wild though it's during college and when she 112 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: met Matt, she knew this was the man she wanted 113 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: to be with. It was a totally different pattern. But 114 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: I think much wild. Did you travel with the stones? 115 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: I think I um, I really grew up because I 116 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: got sober when I was nineteen. So I went to 117 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: rehab when I was a teenager, so that I was 118 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: until I went to we have very crazy. But then 119 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: once that happened, I then started to focus on, you know, 120 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: what was important. So by the time I got married, 121 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: I was already, you know, sober a long time. My 122 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: grandmother was very Bohemian, and my mother was very bohemian. Yeah, 123 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: and they all my grandparents had open marriages, you know. 124 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: And I asked my dad about that, and my dad said, actually, 125 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: was just that your grandfather cheated on your grandmother, and 126 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: that was what they called it in the fifties. I 127 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: also wanted a bourgeois life, Like I didn't want to 128 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: be bohemian. I don't want to be single and have 129 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: a boyfriend who had a motorcycle and cowboy But it's 130 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: none of that appealed to me. What effect, if any, 131 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: didn't have on you that your mother was viewed as 132 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: and I'll let you put in the words, you know, 133 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: your mother's expertise and female sexuality. What impact did that 134 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: have on you when you were growing up? Um? I 135 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: think more having a mother who was very successful in 136 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: working a lot at more of an effect on growing 137 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: up because she just traveled a lot and worked a 138 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: lot and felt very stressed a lot. I think that 139 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: had more of an effect on me. Then. I didn't 140 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: particularly know what she did until when I was in 141 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: sixth grade. I went to this very progressive school and 142 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: a little boy was like, your mom writes dirty books. 143 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: I went to science sure, and I was like, he's 144 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: not allowed to say that to me, and she was like, 145 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: but she does. And I was like, oh my god. 146 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: She does. But the fact that we grew up in 147 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: a townhouse with a hot pink door and then it 148 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: was purple. It was right. We had paintings of naked 149 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: lesbians having sex on the walls. Yes, why because no, 150 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: they're not famous ladder Slader. I have a schlatterer and 151 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: I keep it under my bed. When I want to 152 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: get things going, I want to I want to pick 153 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: it up. Relating to the erotic art I had lived 154 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: in house guests. They had lived with Shirley McClain. Shirley 155 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: finally threw them out. I've met them on the beach 156 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: at now. They were about a hundred years old at 157 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: that point when Shirley threw them out. They came to 158 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: live with me and they gave me erotic artists. Thank 159 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: you can't imagine that they were really old fashioned bohemians 160 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: like Henry Miller. In the sixties, they had lived in 161 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: Paris on the Boulevard rest Spy and had orgies that 162 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: was all over. In the seventies, they went to India 163 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: with Shirley and wrote about past life regression. In the 164 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: eighties they got into antioxidants before anybody knew about it. 165 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: They were at the head of every curve. They were 166 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: not just about and they invented the iPad. They did not. 167 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: I admire them because they were true bohemian. This is 168 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. More 169 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Erica Jong and Molly Young Fast 170 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: coming up in a minute. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're 171 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. I'm talking with writer Erica 172 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: Jong and her daughter Molly Young Fast. Do me if 173 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: I ever, don't comment on this until she finishes. Describe 174 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: your relationship with your mother, don't snicker. Pleasant. She's very supportive, 175 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: are you? What are you talking about? She's very supportive. 176 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: She's talking about you like like she's your husband's ex pat. 177 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: Julie and I have a very pleasant relationship, affable chart. No, 178 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: my mother has always been phenomenal with me, so supportive. 179 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: I don't give her things to read because she says 180 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: to me, she calls me if it says, how much 181 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: of a genius are you? She's very supportive. How would 182 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: you describe your relationship with Molly? I absolutely adore her. 183 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: Beyond that. Beyond that, I think she's I think she's smart. 184 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: I think she's funny. I think she has incredibly good judgment. 185 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: I've watched her grow and emotionally, and she has bearded 186 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: some dragons that were very hard. What do you disagree 187 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: about everything? Everything? Something? Give me something primary consistent. I 188 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: think of her is very reactionary liberal, and I'm much 189 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: more conservative in certain ways. I go more towards the 190 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: libertarian side politically. Yeah, do you think that some of 191 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: your conservatism and this is a long shot, maybe, but 192 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: do you think some of your you know, even mild 193 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: case of of being more conservative in your stems from 194 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: your reaction to her kind of the kind of sexual 195 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: drums she was beating throughout her I was not beating 196 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: a sexual what were you doing. I was trying to 197 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: write honestly about the way a young woman thinks and feels. 198 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: And because our society is so curiously puritanical, people took 199 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: that honest book, which got inside a woman's fantasy life, 200 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: her marital life, and so and they took it as 201 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: a horny book. And I am truly disappointed that the 202 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: closest person in the world to me has bought into 203 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: that view. I was trying to write honestly about how 204 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: a young woman thinks and feels. Because of our puritanism, 205 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: it was construed as a horny book. I it devastates 206 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: me that my daughter buys that image. But okay, she 207 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be my literary critic. She's my daughter 208 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: and I love her and she can do no wrong. 209 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: I hope that someday she will read my work and 210 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: see that that was not what I was doing. Daughters 211 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: do torture you in a way that I mean that 212 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: sons are not capable of, in my opinion. But I 213 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: also think that my mom's legacy to me was about 214 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: being honest and how important it is to be honest. 215 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: And I do really hate you know, that kind of 216 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: pretension or falseness, and that is something that really has 217 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: been your legacy. Um, this is obviously an important subject 218 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: for me because I have a daughter, and that is 219 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: What do you think of the state of female sexuality 220 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: in the culture today. I think they're overwhelmed with a 221 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: false image of sexuality before before they're emotionally ready to 222 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: deal with it. I think they um they're told that 223 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: giving blow jobs in class is not sex, which is 224 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: not true. They use their manipulation and of boy's sexuality 225 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: as a power trip to get even with men for 226 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: the other power men have. But I think to be 227 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: a young woman today of the of your daughter's age 228 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: is a very sticky wicket, and I think that you 229 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: really need a parent who can guide you. How would 230 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: they guide them to tell them that what they see 231 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: around them in the media is not true, because I 232 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: try to do that. If I were dealing with your daughter, 233 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: I would try to reassure her that this is a 234 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: very confusing time of life. I don't and that what 235 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: she sees around her as incredibly confusing. Most of the women, 236 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: the young women are as confused as she and are 237 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: showing off by pretending to not be confused. And I 238 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: would try to convey to her how difficult adolescence is, 239 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: how many messages are coming at her at once, and 240 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: how hard it is to make sense of it. That's 241 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: what I would do. I planned to do that with 242 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: my granddaughter, who I'm sure we'll say something cynical to me. 243 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: But I also think some of it is you just 244 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: as you can't hear that kind of thing from a 245 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: parent at I mean, maybe there are some kids who can. 246 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: I never could, you know, I'm not entirely sure. I 247 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: had a beloved child psychiatrist growing up, who I really 248 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: liked a lot, and I think maybe that's possible, or 249 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: a teacher or a school, so maybe the parent can't 250 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: really say those things. I think it's right, and I 251 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: also think we don't automatically know how to behave. It's 252 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: primarily different from when you wrote your earlier books. What's 253 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: changed for the media is more all pervasive, and the 254 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: image of women is even more confusing than it's ever been. 255 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: And on the one hand, you're supposed to look like 256 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: a fashion model retouched, and on the other hand, you're 257 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: supposed to claim to a sophistication you don't and count 258 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: i'd have at that age. And I think that women 259 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: who are fourteen fifteen are in the most difficult position 260 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: they have ever been in modern society. What do you 261 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: think about that? I mean, I agree, I think there's 262 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: a lot of sexuality. I think it's not explained to 263 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: young girls in a way, very confusing, Molly. But I 264 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: think that's a legacy of the feminist movement. I mean, 265 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: we said we want a legacy of the feminist movement. 266 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: It is a legacy, and here I really feel fierce. 267 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: It is the legacy of a distortion of women's desire 268 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: for equal rights. Equal rights are not platform shoes and 269 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: naked clothes. But you can't blow up an atom bomb 270 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: and then choose how it's going to go. But just 271 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: saying we did not blow up that atom bomb. The 272 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: media took our legitimate desire for equality and turned it 273 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: into garbage. But they turned it into what the people wanted. 274 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: First of all, I don't think they wouldn't exist. It 275 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't exist. People don't buy the media the people want. 276 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. After word from sponsored 277 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: Victoria's secret. I disagree. I also think, first of all, 278 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: this is what the people want. People buy Britney spears 279 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: because they want them. No, no, no, no, did he? 280 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: This is what I disagree. I blame the media, and 281 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: I blame the entertainment industry, and I blame that whole 282 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: matrix for all of it. I think of the most 283 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: absurd person from the past. If you took content Floss 284 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: and put him on Glee, he'd become a gay icon today. 285 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: You are so right, content Flass. I think it's brilliant. 286 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: If the Internet had existed when content Flass was here, 287 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: everybody would be worshiping Canton Floss. You can't and it 288 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with fear, I love. You can't 289 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: control what people are going to do, what people want, 290 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: This is what is thrust upon them, and it has 291 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: nothing to do with First of all, you are the media, 292 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: and you are the media, and I am and so 293 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: affected the media. So I disagree with you, and I 294 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: don't want to get off on media. That's subject. I mean, 295 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: I take a paycheck from media companies to do what 296 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: they pay me to do, but I'm not responsible for 297 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: everything else they do. Let's just say this. You take 298 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: the top women in entertainment, and I'm gonna be generous. 299 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: I'll say half one half of them really have talent. 300 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 1: Mariah Carey really can sing, Beyonce Knowles really can sing. 301 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 1: But then there's the other half. They have no talent. 302 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: It's all electronically enhanced. It's all about many people who 303 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: are talentlest But I think the interpretation of of our 304 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: of sexuality and our culture is so twisted. Sexuality is 305 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: actually is true intimacy with another person that sometimes results 306 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: and genitals getting together and sometimes does not. Why are 307 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: you so cynical awful? I'm no she doesn't. You're the 308 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: one saying lubricants and dolls and ben wabbles. I don't 309 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: even think that's sex. I think that if you have 310 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: real intimacy with somebody, he can touch you here and 311 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: you get excited. He can touch you on your neck, 312 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: he can hold your hand in the movies. Later on, 313 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: I'll show you the spot I touch. People have no 314 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: idea what sexuality really is. I can talk with you 315 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: about sex for a couple more hours. Well, let's do 316 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 1: it next time, okay. Erica Young and Molly gen Fast. 317 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: They say they have toyed with the idea of writing 318 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: something together many times, but both agree they probably never will. 319 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: It would be just the end of our relationship. This 320 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.