Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they
Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and bast start changing
Speaker 2: it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 3: Clink clink, Jamie, you're getting very sleepy now.
Speaker 4: I passed out. It's done.
Speaker 5: It's done.
Speaker 3: Oh those so easy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, I know. I mean, that's that's what
Speaker 5: the movies are about.
Speaker 3: Oh goodness. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante.
Speaker 5: Clink clink, my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is
Speaker 5: our podcast where we talk about your favorite movies from
Speaker 5: an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test.
Speaker 4: Cast test.
Speaker 5: We've been doing this for eight years as a jumping
Speaker 5: off point for discussion.
Speaker 4: But Caitlin, what the hell is that?
Speaker 3: Oh? Gee whiz. It's a media metric to buy a
Speaker 3: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test.
Speaker 3: It has many versions, and ours is this. Do two
Speaker 3: characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak
Speaker 3: to each other? And is the conversation about something other
Speaker 3: than a man, and we especially like it when it's
Speaker 3: a narratively meaningful conversation and not just you know, throw
Speaker 3: away dialogue.
Speaker 5: Very true. And today we're doing one of our rare
Speaker 5: do over episodes. We are covering the twenty seventeen movie
Speaker 5: get Out.
Speaker 4: If you were a.
Speaker 5: Matreon subscriber, which you should be, this was I think
Speaker 5: the first matreard episode we ever did that was a
Speaker 5: live okay.
Speaker 4: Okay, listen, listen.
Speaker 5: It was a moment in time. Listen okay. So what
Speaker 5: we were the circumstances under which we recorded our first
Speaker 5: get Out episode was in the basement of a pizza
Speaker 5: parlor in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4: Yeah, as a part of a comedy festival.
Speaker 5: I don't remember which one, but one that was comfortable
Speaker 5: putting us in the basement of a pizza.
Speaker 3: Parlor certainly not a venue that was conducive to a
Speaker 3: live podcast show, to the point where there was not
Speaker 3: a sound system that allowed it, that allowed us to
Speaker 3: record audio from the soundboard, which is how we would
Speaker 3: normally record audio from a live show. And there weren't
Speaker 3: even enough microphones. Jamie and I had to share a microphone.
Speaker 5: Yes, and we only had like a half hour. So anyways,
Speaker 5: and this was also it in to give us some
Speaker 5: criticism as well. This is before we kind of realized
Speaker 5: that a movie that requires a lot of discussion is
Speaker 5: maybe not ideal for a live show.
Speaker 4: So too a lot like.
Speaker 5: We didn't have enough time, We didn't know how to
Speaker 5: do a live podcast.
Speaker 4: It was twenty seventeen, and.
Speaker 5: We want to resolve because yes, get Out deserves better.
Speaker 5: So today we are recovering get Out in the Year
Speaker 5: of Our Lord twenty twenty four with an incredible guest,
Speaker 5: a returning guest.
Speaker 4: Yes, a friend of the pod.
Speaker 3: Indeed, she's a writer actor. She wrote on I Carly
Speaker 3: and Raven's Home. You remember her from our episodes on
Speaker 3: the movies US and Cheetah Girls. It's Carama Donqua, Hello.
Speaker 1: Hello, bye, thank you so much for having me back.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not like a best friend of the
Speaker 1: pod like you know best friends a tear. I like
Speaker 1: to think I'm a best friend of the pod. Oh yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I don't want to like force it or anything.
Speaker 3: Happening naturally.
Speaker 5: Three Timers Club, Yeah, three pet I love I also
Speaker 5: love that. Yeah. I kind of forgot what a wide
Speaker 5: range of movies we've covered with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, to Jordan Peele Movies Now and Cheetah Girls.
Speaker 1: Yes, one cinema classic. And to Jordan Peel Films.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly, yes, And of course shout out to
Speaker 3: our our guest on the original episode, Ray Sonni, and
Speaker 3: shout out to anyone who was there at the pizza parlor, not.
Speaker 5: On Ray and not on the pizza parlor attendees. Yes,
Speaker 5: we take we take full accountability. And plus the comedy
Speaker 5: Fuzzle Will, which I don't remember the name of. So yeah, whatever.
Speaker 3: I am because Ray was, you know, like precisely, And yes,
Speaker 3: we're so excited to have you to talk about this movie, Kroma.
Speaker 3: What's your relationship with get Out?
Speaker 1: What is my relationship with get Out? I went to
Speaker 1: see it. You know, it's so funny because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell a story that's gonna sound almost identical to my
Speaker 1: story about Us. I went to go see it in
Speaker 1: theaters with my friend Mike. I went and saw Us
Speaker 1: with my other friend Mike. I have a lot of
Speaker 1: white men, different mic friends that are named Mike, don't
Speaker 1: well and some non white mics Michael's in my life,
Speaker 1: but most of them are white men named Mike. But
Speaker 1: I went and saw it in the Cinerama Dome rip
Speaker 1: and I didn't know a ton before I went and
Speaker 1: saw it. My friend Mike, this particular mic is kind
Speaker 1: of always like, come see this movie, and I just go.
Speaker 1: And that's how I saw Moonlight. Also, we went to
Speaker 1: an advanced screening of Moonlight together. He doesn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of black friends, so he tends to see black
Speaker 1: movies with me, which is fine. I love that for him.
Speaker 1: I'm not upset about it. But we went to an
Speaker 1: advanced screening of Moonlight at Lakhma and Janelle Monet was
Speaker 1: there and my breath gone, Wow, they took it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But so I went and saw it at the Cinerama Dome.
Speaker 1: And I love horror and I love Jordan Peele and
Speaker 1: I love Danielkluja. I was a Skins person. My ring
Speaker 1: tone on my phone is the Skins theme song. No
Speaker 1: one ever hears it because my phone's on silent all
Speaker 1: the time, but I but, you know, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: was really struck with get Out, how tight the script
Speaker 1: was and how well constructed it was. I love a
Speaker 1: well constructed piece of writing. Like you know, the word
Speaker 1: play right is spelled weird because a rite is a builder,
Speaker 1: and writing things is about like building them, and I
Speaker 1: think that Jordan Peele built a masterpiece. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: where I'm at. And then I took my little brother
Speaker 1: to see it because I was like, this is important
Speaker 1: for him to see and no one else is going
Speaker 1: to take him to see it. And he was like
Speaker 1: seventeen at the time.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh cool, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was not his first rated R movie. I did
Speaker 1: show him his first rated OUR movie, which was kick Ass.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, another solid choice.
Speaker 1: But I really wanted to like share it with my brother,
Speaker 1: especially because it has so much to do with the
Speaker 1: way that black men in particular are perceived in society.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that my brother had somebody who
Speaker 1: was going to really talk to him about that and
Speaker 1: what it meant in the way that I was going
Speaker 1: to like discuss the film with him, And like, I
Speaker 1: get to discuss it with you two today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I'm so excited.
Speaker 5: Jamie.
Speaker 3: What's your relationship with the movie.
Speaker 5: My relationship with the movie is I didn't see it
Speaker 5: in theaters during its first run, which I really regret.
Speaker 5: I feel like early twenty seventeen was just before I
Speaker 5: got a movie pass and before I knew stubs existed,
Speaker 5: so I just wasn't in the theaters a lot at
Speaker 5: this time. But I saw it later, I think later
Speaker 5: that year, in twenty seventeen, and immediately it was like, fuck,
Speaker 5: I want to see this in a theater so badly.
Speaker 5: And it took me a couple of years, but I
Speaker 5: finally did see it. I think I saw it at Vidiots,
Speaker 5: maybe like a year ago or so. But it's just
Speaker 5: like you're saying, Karma, it's a masterpiece. It's so good.
Speaker 5: I feel like this movie at least I don't know.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm I'm a horror fan, but I don't
Speaker 5: know every single thing about horror. But it just seems
Speaker 5: like get Out really kicked off a whole new generation
Speaker 5: of horror films, kind of for better.
Speaker 4: Or for worse.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of movies you'll see, like a lot
Speaker 5: of horror movies. Now you're like, Okay, you know, there's
Speaker 5: a lot of people that want to do what Jordan
Speaker 5: Peele does, but no one can because he's fucking incredible.
Speaker 5: And yeah, it was really interesting to go back and
Speaker 5: revisit this with sort of the knowledge of the better
Speaker 5: part of ten years of clearly how this was. I
Speaker 5: feel like get Out was sort of immediately a classic,
Speaker 5: but now seven years.
Speaker 4: On, its influence is so.
Speaker 5: So present, to the point where like Jordan Peele has
Speaker 5: to work around the influence of this movie. Yeah, Daniel
Speaker 5: Culia is incredible. I was not a Skins head. I
Speaker 5: regret it was. I feel like I went the de
Speaker 5: Grassy way and then I never I never went to
Speaker 5: England with my teen TV.
Speaker 1: I'm bisexual. I love both Degrassis and Skins.
Speaker 4: The two genders. Yes, yes, but yeah I was.
Speaker 5: I could have been watching Daniel Coluia, but instead I
Speaker 5: was watching a bunch of.
Speaker 4: Door Drake I was watching. I know, I was watching Drake.
Speaker 4: Huge l for me, but yeah, this was.
Speaker 5: I haven't seen it in about a year or so,
Speaker 5: but yeah, it's a masterpiece. And also just going back
Speaker 5: to I've been rewatching a lot of horror classics lately,
Speaker 5: and I recently rewatched Rosemary's Baby and The Step for
Speaker 5: Wives and a lot of things that going through this are,
Speaker 5: you know, very clear influences on Jordan Peel and listening
Speaker 5: to him talk. I don't know, it's just it's great.
Speaker 4: Kaitlin Winster history with this movie.
Speaker 3: This is one of my favorite movies of all time.
Speaker 3: I agree that it's a masterpiece. I teach it in
Speaker 3: my screenwriting classes, using it as an example for many
Speaker 3: examples of what the movie does so well as far
Speaker 3: as crafting a story and planting payoff and you know,
Speaker 3: withholding information for later reveal and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: So I am just astounded by this movie every time
Speaker 3: I watch it, because it holds up on a rewatch
Speaker 3: so so well, the way that some horror movies or
Speaker 3: some movies with like a big twist don't hold up
Speaker 3: because then the story logic just kind of falls apart
Speaker 3: when you rewatch it after knowing the twist. But this
Speaker 3: movie holds up so well. And yeah, I saw it
Speaker 3: in theaters and it was one of my favorite theater
Speaker 3: going experiences ever. I would say, especially the very end, Yes,
Speaker 3: when the cop car pulls up and you're like, fuck
Speaker 3: the fear you feel for Chris, and then the door
Speaker 3: swings open and it says airport and Lil Rel steps
Speaker 3: out and the whole crowd screaming, cheering, just like it
Speaker 3: was incredible.
Speaker 1: Nobody has loved TSA as much as they did. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say in February of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4: What a moment for the TSA.
Speaker 5: Truly, I've never seen them get good press anywhere before
Speaker 5: or since. But yes, Iconic DSA employee.
Speaker 3: Oh god, right, right, right, So yeah, I had a
Speaker 3: great time seeing in theaters and yeah, I've seen this
Speaker 3: movie probably like twenty times now and.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and then come back for
Speaker 3: the recap, shall we.
Speaker 5: Let's do it?
Speaker 6: Sounds great, and we're back.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I forgot to.
Speaker 5: I think I mentioned this in our first go round
Speaker 5: of I saw like I saw the wrong Jordan Peele
Speaker 5: movie in theaters. During this period of time, I did
Speaker 5: goes to see Keanu in theater. Oh my gosh, why,
Speaker 5: I mean, that's a fun movie.
Speaker 1: There's a cat in it.
Speaker 4: There's a cat.
Speaker 5: Literally, I got dumped by a prop comedian and I
Speaker 5: was just like, I gotta go do something, And so
Speaker 5: I went to see Keanu and I was just like
Speaker 5: sitting in the back of Keanu crying.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's so dark. Getting dumped by a prop
Speaker 1: comedian is. Yeah, I know that you've gone through some shit,
Speaker 1: but that is probably the darkest thing I've ever heard
Speaker 1: you go through.
Speaker 4: That's kind of what it is like.
Speaker 5: Once you've been not just dumped, but cheated on by
Speaker 5: a prop comedian. You really it really puts things into perspective.
Speaker 5: You're like, no one can truly hurt me ever again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Wow, Anyways, Keanu was there for.
Speaker 3: Me when glad to hear. Yeah, oh, we should cover
Speaker 3: Keanu sometime on the podcast.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean I haven't seen it since I had
Speaker 5: negative a strong negative association, but it was funny, it
Speaker 5: was anyways, Yes, and that came out I think less
Speaker 5: than a year before Get Out, which is wild the range. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it came out, like, I think in space of six months.
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure both if if my breakup timeline is correct,
Speaker 5: both of these movies came out so close together. And
Speaker 5: that was the other like really exciting thing was like Jordan,
Speaker 5: I mean huge Key and Peel fan obviously, like yeah,
Speaker 5: loved love, loved Key and Peel Forever is like one
Speaker 5: of the best sketch comedy shows ever. And then just
Speaker 5: being like and Jordan, Peele can do this, Like it
Speaker 5: was just so fucking cool. So many comedians have tried
Speaker 5: to do it since, and no one's pulled it off
Speaker 5: because he's just different. He's great anyways, Yeah, just wanted
Speaker 5: to shout out, like we're all comedians here too, and
Speaker 5: seeing someone who is like at the top of the
Speaker 5: sketch comedy world immediately also become one of the top
Speaker 5: tours in the world. It's just like the coolest and
Speaker 5: get Out is super funny.
Speaker 4: Like it's just yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah he Also, I mean he Jordan Peele talks
Speaker 3: about the similarities and parallels between horror and comedy and
Speaker 3: how they function so similarly as like storytelling devices, and yeah,
Speaker 3: so it just makes sense. Also, the Gremlins two Key
Speaker 3: and Peel sketch.
Speaker 4: Is like where is this going?
Speaker 1: OK?
Speaker 3: I watch it like once a month. It's the funniest
Speaker 3: thing to me. Everyone paused this episode and go watch
Speaker 3: the Gremlins two Key and Peel sketch.
Speaker 1: My favorite Key and Peel sketch is the one about
Speaker 1: the two ethnic restaurants across the street from each other
Speaker 1: with the chip BOMBI and my mom loves that sketch
Speaker 1: so so so much because I think it kind of
Speaker 1: reminds her of like West African Jeeloff Wars. It's like
Speaker 1: it's all Rice, calm down, and I can say that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna and we have the best off. Don't fight me.
Speaker 1: But I worked with Keith and Michael Key a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago on a show, and my mom was like, Karama,
Speaker 1: tell him I love the chip Boppy sketch. And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, Mom, I'll tell him. And I didn't.
Speaker 1: He was like that one.
Speaker 5: Look to each their own. I liked the Continental Breakfast one.
Speaker 5: Do you remember that one? That was always my favorite classic?
Speaker 5: But yes, anyways, listeners, also let us know your favorite
Speaker 5: Key and Peel sketches. It's just like amazing, and then
Speaker 5: I this is beside the point, but here we are.
Speaker 4: Do you remember?
Speaker 5: This was I think the same year that A Quiet
Speaker 5: Place one came out, and there was this brief moment
Speaker 5: where they're like two brilliant O tours Jordan Peele and
Speaker 5: John Krasinsky, And then I think we disabused ourselves of
Speaker 5: that pretty quickly, were like one great O tour and
Speaker 5: John Krasinski you.
Speaker 1: Didn't like if? Are you talking about?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: Did direct that if? Or a quieplace?
Speaker 1: I think he uh wrote if or like developed.
Speaker 3: If if being like imaginary friend right that wait was
Speaker 3: that the horror movie that came out about Imaginary Friends.
Speaker 5: Comedy.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, it's the one that felt very Foster's Home
Speaker 1: Imaginary Friends, but like wasn't Yeah I.
Speaker 3: Saw Imaginary I think is what it was called a
Speaker 3: horror movie. Yeah, it was not good, except the third
Speaker 3: act just goes off the rails in the most hilarious way.
Speaker 3: Highly recommend watching the third act of that movie. Anyway,
Speaker 3: we're here to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what makes it out so good is
Speaker 1: that a lot of horror movies really fall apart in
Speaker 1: the third act for sure, and this one is like, no, no,
Speaker 1: we're just getting better, like a fine wine over time.
Speaker 1: Just wow to.
Speaker 5: The last wine, like the the TSA line. It's just.
Speaker 1: Incredible.
Speaker 5: All right, Yeah, let's get into it. Sorry, I just
Speaker 5: needed to do a quick key and peel.
Speaker 3: Diverse check in. Yes, no important. So for the recap
Speaker 3: forget Out, I'll place the content warning for anti black
Speaker 3: racism and violence. So we open on a young black
Speaker 3: man played by Lakeith Stanfield who is walking in a
Speaker 3: suburb at night. He's trying to get somewhere, but he's
Speaker 3: kind of lost, and then a car approaches and starts
Speaker 3: creepily following him. The driver gets out, wearing a medieval
Speaker 3: helmet and attacks and abducts the man. We then meet
Speaker 3: Chris Washington played by Daniel Caluya, a photographer living in
Speaker 3: I think New York City is where it's meant to be.
Speaker 3: He's dating Rose Armitage played by Alison Williams, and they're
Speaker 3: about to leave on a weekend trip to visit her parents,
Speaker 3: who Chris will be meeting for the first time, and
Speaker 3: he asks Rose, who is white, if her parents know
Speaker 3: that he's black, and she's like, no, but it's not
Speaker 3: a big deal. My parents aren't racist, and he's like okay.
Speaker 3: Chris's friend Rod, played by little Ral Howry, is similarly skeptical.
Speaker 3: He works for the TSA.
Speaker 5: This is defining characteristic. That's kind of all we know
Speaker 5: about him. Loves the TSA outside of the fact that
Speaker 5: he's Chris's best friend.
Speaker 4: He works for the TSA, and that is what we know.
Speaker 1: And he's a dog sitter on occasion.
Speaker 4: Yes, he's a dog lover.
Speaker 3: He's dog sitting Chris's dog, Sid while Chris is gone,
Speaker 3: and he jokes to Chris about how he needs to
Speaker 3: be careful around these white people. He's like, don't go
Speaker 3: into their house. But despite Little World's warnings, Chris and
Speaker 3: Rose head out on the road to her parents' house.
Speaker 3: They hit a deer that suddenly runs out on the road,
Speaker 3: and Chris can't really do anything about it, but you know,
Speaker 3: watch it slowly die.
Speaker 5: I know, we just watched Triangle of Sadness and I
Speaker 5: was like, wait, they don't do a Triangle of sadness
Speaker 5: animal sacrifice?
Speaker 1: Do they?
Speaker 5: Then they don't. I was just thinking, what.
Speaker 4: Do they killing Triangle of Sadness?
Speaker 5: It's like a donkey a donkey. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I just had a flash back to that. Anyways, we're
Speaker 5: spared that.
Speaker 3: Yes, So a cop shows up to this, you know,
Speaker 3: like accident, wanting to see Chris's ID even though he
Speaker 3: wasn't driving, and Rose implies that the cop is being racist,
Speaker 3: and so the cop concedes and leaves. They arrive at
Speaker 3: the Armitage house, this like you know, large rich people home.
Speaker 3: We meet Rose's dad, Dean played by Bradley Whitford, and
Speaker 3: her mom, Missy, played by Catherine Keener, and they seem
Speaker 3: warm and inviting to Chris. We also meet a grounds
Speaker 3: keeper and a housekeeper who work for the Armitage family,
Speaker 3: Walter and Georgina played by Marcus Henderson and Betty Gabriel.
Speaker 3: Both of them are black, and Chris can't help but
Speaker 3: notice that they seem kind of weird. Then Chris and
Speaker 3: the family get to know each other a bit more.
Speaker 3: We find out that Chris's mom died in a car
Speaker 3: accident when he was a kid. Also, Dean suggests that
Speaker 3: Missy hypnotized Chris to help him quit smoking. She's a
Speaker 3: psychiatrist and she's like developed this method of hypnosis. But
Speaker 3: Chris is like, no thanks, I'm good. Then Rose's brother
Speaker 3: Jeremy played by Caleb Landry Jones shows up to the house.
Speaker 3: He's there for a party that Rose's grandfather used to
Speaker 3: throw every year while he was alive, and the family
Speaker 3: just like kept this tradition going of throwing this annual party.
Speaker 3: Jeremy is generally an asshole. He says some weird things
Speaker 3: to Chris about his physique and genetic makeup, and he
Speaker 3: tries to play fight with Chris, and so there's you know,
Speaker 3: weird vibes from him as well.
Speaker 5: And I know this isn't true, but this is always
Speaker 5: the point in the movie where I'm like.
Speaker 4: Is this supposed to be Jonah Piretti because.
Speaker 5: Oh, because of Chelsea was famously a piece of shit. Anyways,
Speaker 5: maybe Jordan Peele says, no.
Speaker 1: Well, I think he'd have to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't be like, yes, it's my brother in
Speaker 3: law who I hate.
Speaker 5: Yeah, mister BuzzFeed him son.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh. So Rose is like, oh, sorry about my family,
Speaker 3: maybe they are racist, and Chris is like, yeah, no shit,
Speaker 3: I told you so.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: Later that night, Chris can't sleep, so he goes outside
Speaker 3: for a cigarette. He sees more of Walter and Georgina
Speaker 3: being weird, and when Chris goes back in, Missy reprimands
Speaker 3: him for smoking and that she kind of coaxes him
Speaker 3: into being hypnotized. She's swirling a spoon around a teacup,
Speaker 3: and she weaponizes the guilt that he feels about his
Speaker 3: mother's death.
Speaker 5: Catherine Keener is terrifying.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, she's very, very scary. The performances all
Speaker 3: around in this movie are just like next level.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, but Daniel Kleia obviously is like the
Speaker 5: reaction shots of him are like iconic at this point.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that like every single performance it's so well cast.
Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: He really shows that acting is reacting because he doesn't
Speaker 1: talk a lot. Yeah, he's a man of few words.
Speaker 1: He's very observant. Yeah, and not he doesn't he holds
Speaker 1: his cards a little close to the best.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. And I also, I mean, just I
Speaker 5: didn't really think about it before, but like Jordan Peel's
Speaker 5: casting process, he's like chosen these white actors that are
Speaker 5: associated with these famous white liberal shows like Alison Williams
Speaker 5: Is and Girls. Bradley Whitfer was in the West Wing,
Speaker 5: so it's like there's already this sort of subconscious association
Speaker 5: with white liberalism with the casting too, and then the
Speaker 5: performances are just unbelievable. It's yeah, he's playing five D chess.
Speaker 1: Very much reminds me of Emerald Fennel's casting process for
Speaker 1: promising young women, where she was like, I want all
Speaker 1: of the men to be like these lovable white boys
Speaker 1: that everybody is like, oh my god, he's the best,
Speaker 1: and then they're horrible sexual assaulters.
Speaker 5: Right and or complicit Adam Brodie bo burn up, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Max Greenfield my husband right, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I guess that never like really fully clicked for
Speaker 5: me on previous viewings, but I was like, wow, he's
Speaker 5: really playing a game of five DCHSS for the viewers.
Speaker 3: So we're in the middle of this hypnosis scene. Chris
Speaker 3: is crying, he's scratching at the armchair, and then Missy
Speaker 3: puts him in the sunken place where he's basically trapped
Speaker 3: in his own mind. He can see what's happening in
Speaker 3: the world around him from a distance, but he can't
Speaker 3: move and he no longer has control over his own body.
Speaker 3: Cut to him waking up in bed. Things seem back
Speaker 3: to normal. He thinks it was probably a dream. And
Speaker 3: shortly after this, guests start arriving for this party. They
Speaker 3: are almost entirely older, wealthy white people. They direct several
Speaker 3: racist microaggressions at Chris and macro.
Speaker 5: Aggressions, yeah, just to also aggression.
Speaker 3: A lot of everything.
Speaker 1: My favorite of the aggressions is when when that woman
Speaker 1: looks at Rose and says, is it better? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Ohh god, lady yeah.
Speaker 3: And then Chris notices the one other black guest at
Speaker 3: the party and approaches him. We recognize him as the
Speaker 3: Lakeith Stanfield character we saw at the very beginning of
Speaker 3: the movie, although now he's acting and speaking and dressing
Speaker 3: very differently, and he seems to be like romantically with
Speaker 3: a much older white woman, so the vibes are very
Speaker 3: weird there. The inter action he has with Chris is
Speaker 3: very weird. And then Chris Cross's path Chris Cross Chris
Speaker 3: Cross's paths with a guy named Jim Hudson played by
Speaker 3: Stephen Root, who Chris had heard of because he's an
Speaker 3: art dealer. Jim knows of Chris as well because he's
Speaker 3: an admirer of Chris's photography, although he hasn't been able
Speaker 3: to see it because due to a genetic disease, Jim
Speaker 3: Hudson went blind, and he explains that he has his
Speaker 3: assistant describe artists work to him in detail, so he
Speaker 3: knows if he wants to, you know, buy and deal
Speaker 3: it or not. Then Chris goes inside and we see
Speaker 3: that all the guests are hyper fixated on Chris being there.
Speaker 4: It's very eerie.
Speaker 5: The moment where he walks upstairs and everyone pauses is
Speaker 5: just like everyone's worst fear.
Speaker 3: I remember that being in the trailer. You know, watching
Speaker 3: the trailer, you don't really know the context, so.
Speaker 4: You're just like, what's going on?
Speaker 3: And then you see the movie and you're like, oh
Speaker 3: my god. But anyway, Chris calls Rod, who is convinced
Speaker 3: that the family is trying to hypnotize him and turn
Speaker 3: him into a sex slave. Chris is like, a haha,
Speaker 3: I don't know. And then Chris has a bizarre interaction
Speaker 3: with Georgina. We also have seen him have a similarly
Speaker 3: bizarre interaction with Walter. Those performances are also incredible from
Speaker 3: the actors playing Georgina and Walter. And then Chris returns
Speaker 3: to the party. He observes more of the Lakeith Stanfield
Speaker 3: character being weird, so Chris tries to take a picture
Speaker 3: of him on his phone in secret, but the flash
Speaker 3: goes off and this seems to perhaps unhypnotize Lakeith's character,
Speaker 3: and he screams at Chris to get out, Hey, that's
Speaker 3: the name of the movie.
Speaker 4: You're like, whoa, oh asah.
Speaker 3: And the family explains this character's behavior away as being
Speaker 3: an epileptic seizure. And when we see the la Keith
Speaker 3: character again, he's back to being this like bizarro hypnotized
Speaker 3: version of himself. So Chris and Rose go off by
Speaker 3: themselves and Chris is like, that was no seizure. This
Speaker 3: whole thing is very uncomfortable and I want to go home,
Speaker 3: and eventually she's like, yeah, this sucks, let's get out
Speaker 3: of here.
Speaker 5: So yeah, the way that she soft nags him throughout
Speaker 5: the movie is so effective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the master. She is. Give credit where credits
Speaker 1: due that woman, the character Rose Oscar.
Speaker 5: I mean it's like, I will, truly I will. It
Speaker 5: took me, probably on my first viewing too long to
Speaker 5: catch on that she's almost certainly in on it.
Speaker 7: But I didn't get it till the keys right right, same,
Speaker 7: And you're like, fuck, yeah, of course right, because the
Speaker 7: movie kind of implies that maybe she's also hypnotized.
Speaker 3: And if she's doing this, it's against her will. But
Speaker 3: just kidding, No, she's in on it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But before we get that reveal, we see what appears
Speaker 3: to be an auction. It's like disguised as a bingo game,
Speaker 3: but it's an auction that Dean Armitage is conducting, and
Speaker 3: it's revealed that what is being sold is Chris and
Speaker 3: the highest bidder is that art dealer, Jim Hudson, and
Speaker 3: all of this is of course unbeknownst to Chris. So
Speaker 3: Chris and Rose go back inside and they get ready
Speaker 3: to leave, and he sends the picture he took of
Speaker 3: Lekeith to his friend Rod, and Rod is like, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, I know that guy. His name is Dre
Speaker 3: and Chris is like, yeah, I thought I recognized him.
Speaker 3: And he's explaining how different Drey is now and then
Speaker 3: and this is the only part of the movie that like,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, this is a perfect movie, except for
Speaker 3: this where Chris just kind of randomly finds this statue
Speaker 3: of photos in Rose's room, and each one is of
Speaker 3: Rose and a black person, and the last two photos
Speaker 3: are of her and Walter and Georgina. And so Chris
Speaker 3: is now very much panicking. He's trying to get out
Speaker 3: right now. But Rose's family descends on him, including Rose,
Speaker 3: who surprise is in on the whole thing, and Missy
Speaker 3: hypnotizes Chris via the teacup and spoon and puts him
Speaker 3: in the sunken place. He wakes up in the basement
Speaker 3: of the house, strapped to a chair. There's a TV
Speaker 3: in front of him, and it starts playing a video
Speaker 3: about the coagula procedure, a surgery where part of a
Speaker 3: person's brain will be transplanted into Chris's body in this case,
Speaker 3: Jim Hudson, who will have control roll over Chris's body
Speaker 3: and Chris's consciousness will live in the sunken place.
Speaker 5: This is one of my favorite, like horror movie tropes,
Speaker 5: is all of a sudden when the instructional video comes
Speaker 5: on and it's like, Hi, you might be wondering what
Speaker 5: the scary thing is. Well, I'm a scary guy, and
Speaker 5: here's what the scary thing is. I love it.
Speaker 1: I will say Jordan Pield does a good job of
Speaker 1: giving an in world reason because he has Jim Hudson
Speaker 1: say you know, they say that our mutual understanding of
Speaker 1: the procedure helps it take root.
Speaker 4: And you're like, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1: I was like, why is this an evil monologue situation?
Speaker 1: Like they don't need to tell him? And then I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 5: He has to understand for it to work.
Speaker 4: But it's justified, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3: The reason I don't like Chris just like randomly finding
Speaker 3: all those photos is because one, like it feels a
Speaker 3: little too much like a coincidence that he just randomly
Speaker 3: finds them to me at least, and two like, why
Speaker 3: would they have that evidence? Like very out in the
Speaker 3: open and available for him to see. I don't know
Speaker 3: it just it felt a little silly to me, but
Speaker 3: otherwise perfect movie anyway. So we understand that this coigular
Speaker 3: procedure is what must have happened to Drey and Walter
Speaker 3: and Georgina. And then Chris is hypnotized again via the
Speaker 3: teacup and spoon coming on the TV screen. Meanwhile, back
Speaker 3: in the city, Rod starts investigating this whole ordeal and
Speaker 3: discovers that Drey has been missing for six months. So
Speaker 3: Rod goes to the police and tries to explain that
Speaker 3: he thinks the Armitage family is abducting black people, brainwashing them,
Speaker 3: and turning them to sex slaves, but the cops all
Speaker 3: laugh him off. Back at the Armitage house, Dean and
Speaker 3: Jeremy prepare for the surgery. Jeremy goes to collect Chris,
Speaker 3: thinking he's hypnotized, but just kidding he's not because Chris
Speaker 3: had stuffed cotton in his ears from the armchair that
Speaker 3: he was anxiously scratching, so he didn't hear the teacup
Speaker 3: thing that triggers the hypnosis, which means he's able to
Speaker 3: fight back against Jeremy. He bashes him over the head
Speaker 3: with I think a bochi ball feels appropriate, right, And
Speaker 3: then Chris impales Dean with the antlers of a taxidermied buck.
Speaker 3: He breaks Missy's teacup and stabs her and kills her,
Speaker 3: and then Chris takes Jeremy's keys and starts to drive off,
Speaker 3: but then Georgina, who is actually Rose's grandmother, tries to
Speaker 3: stop him and Rose, who's eating cereal inside here's the
Speaker 3: commotion and goes outside with a rifle. Walter, who is
Speaker 3: Rose's grandfather, chases after Chris, but Chris is able to
Speaker 3: use the flash on his phone to unhypnotize Walter, so
Speaker 3: Walter shoots Rose and then himself. Though Rose is still
Speaker 3: alive and Chris starts strangling her, but then a cop
Speaker 3: car shows up and Rose is like, help me, and
Speaker 3: again we think, oh no, but the door swings open
Speaker 3: on the car and it says airport because it's Rod
Speaker 3: in a TSA car there to save his friend, and we.
Speaker 4: Can't stop cheering, and we're like, I didn't know.
Speaker 5: That there were alternative endings to this movie until I
Speaker 5: was researching for this.
Speaker 1: People did not like the alternate ending, and I don't
Speaker 1: think I would have liked it either.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, no. So this ending that we see, you know,
Speaker 3: the theatrical ending is that Chris gets in the car
Speaker 3: and they drive off to safety. The end, the alternate ending,
Speaker 3: at least one of them.
Speaker 5: It seems like there's a couple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was one that was actually shot. So Chris
Speaker 3: strangles Rose and kills her, so she dies, and the
Speaker 3: cops still show up in that moment, and it's actually
Speaker 3: the police, not Rod in his TSACR. The cops arrest
Speaker 3: Chris and he goes to jail. We cut to six
Speaker 3: months later. Rod visits him in prison. He's trying to
Speaker 3: help Chris clear his name, but Chris, realizing that the
Speaker 3: racist system won't work in his favor, he's just like,
Speaker 3: it's okay, like I stopped this from happening again. And
Speaker 3: then Chris walks away and that's the end of the movie.
Speaker 3: And Jordan Peele spoke about this as far as when
Speaker 3: he was writing the movie, that was the ending that
Speaker 3: he had envisioned. He wanted this sort of gut punch
Speaker 3: realistic ending.
Speaker 5: Which does feel like more in step with what he
Speaker 5: says his influences are, because like the step for wives,
Speaker 5: Anne Rosemary's Baby both end with like a pretty severe
Speaker 5: defeat of the protagonist for.
Speaker 3: Sure, right, But by the time he was shooting the movie,
Speaker 3: he realized that he wanted an ending that would be
Speaker 3: like cathartic and uplifting and empowering. And that's why we
Speaker 3: get the ending that we get where Chris triumphs and
Speaker 3: Rod saves him.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, that is that.
Speaker 3: Let's take another quick break and then we'll come back
Speaker 3: to discuss.
Speaker 4: And where we're back.
Speaker 1: I missed you guys during the breaks.
Speaker 3: I miss you too.
Speaker 5: I feel so safe now I'm back with my friends. Yeah,
Speaker 5: where do we want to start?
Speaker 1: I guess I want to start talking about like the influences.
Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about Rosemary's Baby and Stepford
Speaker 1: Wives being influences, which both of those are written by
Speaker 1: the same person. The original text I relevent Or eleven.
Speaker 1: And the first time I ever heard it compared to
Speaker 1: Stepford Wives, I was at work and one of my
Speaker 1: coworkers who I didn't like, said, you know, get Out
Speaker 1: is just like a ripoff, like a bad ripoff of
Speaker 1: Stepford Wives. Oh, And I was like, I knew I
Speaker 1: didn't like you, and I was kind of resentful of
Speaker 1: the comparison at all, not knowing that Peel himself had said, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I drew from Stepford Wives. And I think what's really
Speaker 1: specific about Stepford Wives in particular this did not happen
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and four remake because it's bad,
Speaker 1: But in the nineteen seventy five original film and the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two book, the end is that Joanne or Joanna,
Speaker 1: I don't remember which one is her name, but she is.
Speaker 1: She becomes a Stepford wife, and at the grocery store
Speaker 1: she sees this like black family moving into the neighborhood,
Speaker 1: integrating the neighborhood, and it's very heavily implied that they
Speaker 1: will be next. So I feel like it was sort of,
Speaker 1: in a way a symbolic passing of the tour of
Speaker 1: the baton to tell this story about blackness, because Stepford
Speaker 1: Wives is very specifically kind of like in the way
Speaker 1: the feminine mystique exists by Betty for Dan is foreign
Speaker 1: about white women. And I think that it is very
Speaker 1: dynamic and it is very of its time, but it
Speaker 1: is definitely foreign about white women. And this movie is
Speaker 1: for and about black men in a way that draws
Speaker 1: from Stepford Wives, but is not a cheap ripoff of it.
Speaker 1: Man from work whose name I don't remember.
Speaker 5: Good God, I love men in writers' rooms.
Speaker 1: They never this was not a writer's room. I will
Speaker 1: give credit where credits do. I don't want anybody to
Speaker 1: think that anybody like I Carly or Raven's Home was
Speaker 1: saying that stuff. I was working as a telemarketer at
Speaker 1: the time. Very different vibe right around when Sorry to
Speaker 1: Bother You came out, which, uh was you know interesting
Speaker 1: that Lakeith Stanfield has taken on many roles embodying like
Speaker 1: whiteness and blackness at the same time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean I didn't really connect what Peel's
Speaker 5: influences were before. I just like happened to rewatch these
Speaker 5: and then yeah, he does cite that. But you're totally right, Crum.
Speaker 5: I mean, any anyone saying that Get Out is derivative
Speaker 5: is a fucking liar who just like and and just
Speaker 5: with like the specificity of who this movie is for,
Speaker 5: because absolutely like the Rosemary's Baby and steph For Wives
Speaker 5: have this like whiff of second wave feminism about them,
Speaker 5: where you know, points are made, and also it's so
Speaker 5: clearly focused on middle to upper class white women and
Speaker 5: what their struggles were, ignoring everybody else and get out.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just like it's clear what Jordan Peel's folks,
Speaker 5: and it's like you can reference and be inspired by
Speaker 5: other works.
Speaker 4: But this is so different.
Speaker 5: And the fact that in this movie, like white women
Speaker 5: of this same class as Stepford wives are taken to task.
Speaker 5: They are the active aggressors in this situation, and he's
Speaker 5: not shying away from that. So it almost feels like
Speaker 5: it's in conversation with stephyr Wise. But to say it's
Speaker 5: a ripoff is just like a lot.
Speaker 1: It was. It was deeply appalling, Like it has stuck
Speaker 1: with me that this man said that and I didn't
Speaker 1: I flames flames on the side of my face.
Speaker 3: Okay, clue reference you love to see it? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, this movie is obviously one that has a
Speaker 3: very clear agenda as far as examining anti black racism
Speaker 3: in the US. It's a movie that forced a lot
Speaker 3: of people, especially white people, to interrogate their history with
Speaker 3: anti black racism, to interrogate their allyship if they consider
Speaker 3: themselves to be anti racist allies or non racist allies,
Speaker 3: and how they approach allyship and whether or not it's
Speaker 3: actually helpful or if it's performative and false. It's a
Speaker 3: movie that examines racial and cultural appropriation of black people
Speaker 3: and examines the exploitation of black bodies throughout history into
Speaker 3: present day. Like it's doing all these things, and also
Speaker 3: like all these metaphors that you can apply as far
Speaker 3: as the prison industrial complex, slavery, that the bingo scene,
Speaker 3: you know, being an allegory for a slave auction, like
Speaker 3: all these things.
Speaker 1: I have to say something about the bingo scene and
Speaker 1: just something that always is bone chilling for me when
Speaker 1: I watch a movie where somebody sinister does like crafts
Speaker 1: to prepare for their sinister activities. I'm just like, you
Speaker 1: weren't to FedEx copy and print and got those bingo
Speaker 1: cards made and had like a big ass picture of
Speaker 1: Chris printed and framed it and put it on an easel.
Speaker 1: That's not that's not nothing. I co hosted a bridal
Speaker 1: shower for my friend. There were a lot of little
Speaker 1: things that I had to do and it was exhausting,
Speaker 1: and I'm.
Speaker 5: Just like, you're so evil you had to go to
Speaker 5: CVS about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, someone put stickers on the Bengo cards and very
Speaker 3: specific places and like color coded them and everything like yeah, effort, No.
Speaker 1: It's nefarious.
Speaker 5: And I don't think Bradley Whitford is doing that either,
Speaker 5: like he's outsourcing that labor.
Speaker 1: I don't think that Georgina's doing it either, because she
Speaker 1: is secretly the grandma, right. But like I'm wondering if
Speaker 1: they do have sort of a what Rod's thinking of,
Speaker 1: like separate like actual slave people doing it, or if
Speaker 1: they just have like an assistant. I don't know, someone
Speaker 1: might tell it's like it's a turn.
Speaker 4: Even the house.
Speaker 5: The house is very like plantation coded I know is
Speaker 5: shot in the South. Like there's just so many signifiers
Speaker 5: of this slavery era in the US and then to
Speaker 5: have I don't know, I mean, like speaking to your point, Caitlin,
Speaker 5: of how a lot of people, not all of them,
Speaker 5: because there are people who are just outwardly racist they're
Speaker 5: not even pretending to not be. But for you know,
Speaker 5: I guess with the exception of Jeremy, for like Rose
Speaker 5: and her parents, it's like they're saying the right thing,
Speaker 5: but they're not doing I mean, they're actively inflicting harm
Speaker 5: with their actions, and it's like it's just I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's like the best possible use of the horror genre
Speaker 5: to make that point for me.
Speaker 1: With the outwardly racist people at the party, it's really
Speaker 1: interesting because they're never outwardly racist in the way that
Speaker 1: is like bad that you're like, oh, this is a
Speaker 1: bad person because they're being racist. But like to bring
Speaker 1: up that lady again who is man handling Chris, and
Speaker 1: then is like asking Rose like is it true that
Speaker 1: sex with black men is better? That is obviously very racist,
Speaker 1: But then you know, you always have those people who
Speaker 1: are like, but it's a compliment to say that sex
Speaker 1: with black people is better, Like we're saying a good thing,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of like the positive stereotypes that are
Speaker 1: just as harmful as the negative stereotypes, but sort of
Speaker 1: like passed over. So it's like, oh, I love Tiger Woods.
Speaker 5: And I'm just like, oh my god, buddy for Obama
Speaker 5: the third time, Like right, it's.
Speaker 1: Very Northeast racism.
Speaker 3: I feel, yeah, well that's the thing, Like even though
Speaker 3: the movie was shot in the South, Jordan Peele deliberately
Speaker 3: was like, I want to communicate that these are like
Speaker 3: New York upstate like neoliberal white rich people, because he's like,
Speaker 3: it would have been too easy to like do a
Speaker 3: very like, you know, southern plantation racist kind of thing.
Speaker 5: Right, people, We've all men like it's right. There's people
Speaker 5: in my family that it's just like there's uncomfortable echoes
Speaker 5: of cringe inducing, embarrassing, gross shit that they would say
Speaker 5: and be like, but what you're just like, you're awful,
Speaker 5: you're awful, And I think that you know, we don't
Speaker 5: know what we don't know.
Speaker 1: And for some people, the first time that they say
Speaker 1: something like that and somebody's like, hey, that's not cool,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, I totally didn't know that,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. But I think it's the well,
Speaker 1: I'm not a racist and not being willing to confront
Speaker 1: like you can be racist accidentally and that's okay as
Speaker 1: long as you are like, oh, racism is not great,
Speaker 1: let me not do that again. Like nobody is saying like, oh,
Speaker 1: once you do a racism, you are automatically hitler, Like
Speaker 1: that's not how it works. And I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of people feel like that, and there's like a
Speaker 1: discomfort that they're not willing to sit with for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I feel like that is the idea
Speaker 5: that if you are racist in any contact at any point,
Speaker 5: that you are forever horrible is used as like a
Speaker 5: defense mechanism by people to refuse to learn and just
Speaker 5: like double down and make people calling them out seem
Speaker 5: like inherently unreasonable, where it's like, well, no, you're like
Speaker 5: being asked to listen and adjust your behavior and think.
Speaker 5: And I feel like that is just so antithetical too.
Speaker 3: That's what I find so interesting and like effective about
Speaker 3: the way most of the members of the Armitage family
Speaker 3: behave as like fake allies basically, where for example, with Rose,
Speaker 3: we are seeing her anytime that Chris brings up something
Speaker 3: about oh someone said something that made me uncomfortable or
Speaker 3: I told you they were probably racist, you see her
Speaker 3: like downplaying his concerns but like joking around about them.
Speaker 3: And on the surface, initially that could be interpreted as like, oh,
Speaker 3: she's trying to put him at ease, she's like, you know,
Speaker 3: bringing levity to the situation, but really she's gaslighting him
Speaker 3: and luring him into a false sense of security so
Speaker 3: that her family can entrap him and steal his body.
Speaker 3: And even the part where she you know, calls out
Speaker 3: the cop for wanting to see his ID in a
Speaker 3: way that feels racist. Her defending Chris wasn't her being
Speaker 3: anti racist, That was her like avoiding a paper trail.
Speaker 3: So there's like all these things that could be you know,
Speaker 3: interpreted through different lenses depending on what you already know
Speaker 3: about these characters. And then like Dean when he first
Speaker 3: meets Chris and he's like giving him the tour of
Speaker 3: the house, he's saying some like cringey things the way
Speaker 3: a like rich white boomer man would try to be
Speaker 3: an ally and they're cringey, But it seems like he
Speaker 3: means well, like he acknowledges the optics of being a
Speaker 3: wealthy white family having black servants. He's saying the you know,
Speaker 3: I would have voted for Obama a third term. He
Speaker 3: you know, makes a comment about Jesse Owens winning gold
Speaker 3: at the Olympics in front of Hitler and like all
Speaker 3: this stuff. Again, it seems like he's trying, but it's
Speaker 3: all a facade and it's all right.
Speaker 5: But because it's like everything he's doing is like self defensive,
Speaker 5: which we later learned is because he has a lot
Speaker 5: of reasons to be like, oh, don't nothing to see here,
Speaker 5: But on like subsequent viewings, you're like, he's not trying
Speaker 5: to get to know Chris at all because he doesn't care,
Speaker 5: Like he's just pointing out all of the ways in
Speaker 5: which he is not racist towards black people and doesn't
Speaker 5: ask Chris a single question about himself right at any point,
Speaker 5: Like never gets to try to know the guy at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the different ways that different generations and
Speaker 1: genders of people in the Armitage family are sort of
Speaker 1: representative of a class of racism is very interesting. Sort
Speaker 1: of like the one that stands out the most is
Speaker 1: Jeremy the brother, and he sort of gives off this
Speaker 1: like angry alt right internet.
Speaker 5: Boy down to the haircut down down like sort.
Speaker 1: Of racism where he is like trying to scrap with
Speaker 1: him and talks about physical superiority, which is very reminiscent
Speaker 1: of the way that like in Cells talk and gives
Speaker 1: me like Elliott Roger vibes. I think about Elliott Rodger
Speaker 1: all the time. He's so scary to me, Like I
Speaker 1: never got past that. That was like really freaky for me.
Speaker 1: But I think that then when you also look at
Speaker 1: you know, his dad, this older boomer who is a doctor,
Speaker 1: not for nothing. The medical system is very, very racist.
Speaker 1: They're trying, some people are trying within the system, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's still bad.
Speaker 5: Same with psychiatry too, yeah, yeah, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And he is sort of this more one microaggressive racism
Speaker 1: when he's like, oh yo, how long has this thang
Speaker 1: been happening? Which I'm not joking. My family friend has
Speaker 1: this husband who is an older white man who's been
Speaker 1: rich for most of his life. And I would go
Speaker 1: to the family friend's house and I stopped going there
Speaker 1: because I felt so microaggressed because when I would go
Speaker 1: over there, the husband would be like, Oh, what's up, dog,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't talk like that. You don't
Speaker 1: talk like that. Why are we doing this? And it
Speaker 1: was just exhausting to deal with every time I was there,
Speaker 1: and it was very real and these different classes, and
Speaker 1: then we can talk more about like Rose and Missy
Speaker 1: and the ways in which it's like one of them
Speaker 1: is like, well, I deep black men, so like I'm
Speaker 1: not racist, and the other one is sort of like
Speaker 1: bringing up this trauma that he has and weaponizing it
Speaker 1: against him in the way that like, you know, a
Speaker 1: Karen would sort of weaponize her whiteness, white womanness. It's interesting,
Speaker 1: it's very it's all very deliberate, like we said at
Speaker 1: the beginning, it's all very well crafted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the I don't know if like compromises
Speaker 3: is the right word, but like what Chris does in
Speaker 3: response to these constant aggressions from the family or like
Speaker 3: the guests at the party, and like it's a sort
Speaker 3: of like choosing his battle sort of thing, but he
Speaker 3: isn't able to actually like he just has to say, well,
Speaker 3: there was another one. Okay, I'm gonna go over here
Speaker 3: now and pretend to take pictures so I don't have
Speaker 3: to talk to these people. And then he's interrupted from
Speaker 3: that and more, you know, macro and microaggressions are hurled
Speaker 3: at him and.
Speaker 5: As well as like with with Rose occasionally, and this
Speaker 5: caused me to reflect, I'm like, fuck do I do that?
Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean, you have one must consider,
Speaker 5: but how you know, Rose will occasionally sort of monologue
Speaker 5: about like, wasn't it fucked up when they did this?
Speaker 4: Wasn't it fucked up when they did this?
Speaker 5: And you can see that Chris is like kind of
Speaker 5: exhausted by it and is like can we just not
Speaker 5: because she's not really doing anything about it, which we
Speaker 5: realize is very deliberately she's not doing anything about it,
Speaker 5: but just like seeing this be yet another sort of
Speaker 5: like drain and burden upon Chris to like have to
Speaker 5: listen to his girlfriend recap the ways in which people
Speaker 5: were racist to him throughout the day and then being like, well,
Speaker 5: I'm not okay with it, and he's like, all right, great, can.
Speaker 3: You say something about it to your family?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: She's like nah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's She's just again, she's a master. She needs
Speaker 1: a she needs an oscar and a copy of the
Speaker 1: DSMM that wamon.
Speaker 5: And they cut to her drinking milk with headphones on.
Speaker 5: I'm like, that is very funny when like listening to
Speaker 5: I've had the time of my life drinking milk like and.
Speaker 3: Outing other people to try to abduct. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do wonder about and this is I hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about this before on previous watches, so it's like not
Speaker 1: a big deal, But I wonder at the logistics because
Speaker 1: if you look at say like Jim, he is a
Speaker 1: major art dealer, to the point where you know Chris
Speaker 1: knows who he is separate from Rose like, where does
Speaker 1: he go because he's his physical body is gone? And
Speaker 1: then like does Chris just kind of step into that role?
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand the logistics.
Speaker 5: Is he just like kept on like life support?
Speaker 7: ID?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Unclear?
Speaker 3: Yeah, not sure either. But that brings to mind a
Speaker 3: piece I wanted to quote from by Damon Young in
Speaker 3: a Slate piece entitled The Disturbing Truth that makes Get
Speaker 3: Out depressingly plausible, where he compares and contrasts get Out
Speaker 3: and Gone Girl, just saying the latter, of course, being
Speaker 3: a movie about a pretty white woman who goes missing
Speaker 3: and how that captivates and paralyzes the nation, which is
Speaker 3: what tends to happen when white women are missing, and
Speaker 3: then he goes on to say, quote and get Out,
Speaker 3: the Armitage family and their dozens of co conspirators are
Speaker 3: able to do what they do and are able to
Speaker 3: continue to do it for what seems to be at
Speaker 3: least a decade, because well, no one gives a damn
Speaker 3: about missing black people. The writer goes on to say,
Speaker 3: the actual facts on the disparities in regard and attention
Speaker 3: between missing white people and missing black people are predictably disheartening.
Speaker 3: Although black people only comprise thirteen percent of America's population,
Speaker 3: we are thirty four percent of America's missing, a reality
Speaker 3: that exists as the result of a millange of racial
Speaker 3: and socioeconomic factors, rendering black lives demonstratively less valuable than
Speaker 3: the lives of our white counterparts unquote. And then he
Speaker 3: goes on to discuss, you know, the lack of media
Speaker 3: attention paid to missing black people versus the disproportionate amount
Speaker 3: of attention paid to missing white woman syndrome. So as
Speaker 3: far as like the logistics of like, yeah, would Chris
Speaker 3: just be the art dealer at Hudson Galleries now, or like,
Speaker 3: you know, Chris's body piloted by Jim Hudson, or how
Speaker 3: does that work? It seems like they do keep a
Speaker 3: very like close knit community for this to work. But also,
Speaker 3: as this piece points out, like this is plausible because
Speaker 3: of how law enforcement and media and all this stuff
Speaker 3: doesn't pay much attention to missing black pa.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we get the scene in the police
Speaker 1: station where three black officers laugh in Rod's face when
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, my friend was supposed to come back.
Speaker 1: He didn't. He also found this man who has been
Speaker 1: missing for six months and even just a statement like,
Speaker 1: well it doesn't look missing because we found him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, effective commentary on you know, policing and cops not
Speaker 3: believing people absolutely.
Speaker 5: Right and to just have police force like I mean,
Speaker 5: just do answer to white supremacy at the end of
Speaker 5: the day. And like I mean, I thought the way
Speaker 5: that even it's reference, I mean, it's it is like
Speaker 5: to get the plot moving forward. But even how like
Speaker 5: if Andre was missing for six months and he was
Speaker 5: a white man, everyone at the Armitage House would know
Speaker 5: about him because of how the media is different. And
Speaker 5: so the fact that the reveal that he's been missing
Speaker 5: for six months is just presented very passively, and it's
Speaker 5: like there are these old news articles, but it's clear
Speaker 5: that there was no you know, like media blitz the
Speaker 5: way that there would be if if he'd been white.
Speaker 5: You know, it's like that's how they get away with it,
Speaker 5: is that armitages are very knowingly taking advantage of how
Speaker 5: they know the world works, and that they're like, you know, sure,
Speaker 5: maybe Chris has people in his life who will miss him,
Speaker 5: but you know, no one's going to actually pay attention
Speaker 5: outside of maybe a few people. That's what they're betting
Speaker 5: on not knowing that the TSA is on it.
Speaker 1: Well, and also he is notably an orphan and exactly
Speaker 1: no family, no actual like blood family. That's gonna be like, no,
Speaker 1: we are going to keep looking in the same way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, just like the way that his vulnerabilities
Speaker 5: are targeted is so disgusting on like on subsequent viewings,
Speaker 5: because at first I didn't even really fully take in.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, you know, part of the reason
Speaker 5: Rose target him specifically is because he has suffered so
Speaker 5: many losses in his life. Yeah, and then the way
Speaker 5: I mean the scene with Missy where he's she's just
Speaker 5: digging in and in and in on the worst thing
Speaker 5: that's ever happened to him, Like it's just.
Speaker 1: I also want to talk about the selection process of
Speaker 1: picking who these people are. What's interesting to me is
Speaker 1: sort of the reactions, Like we talked about Chris's reactions
Speaker 1: like oh, it's probably fine, and sort of picking his battles,
Speaker 1: and you see Rod's reactions which are much bigger to
Speaker 1: these things. And part of it is Rod is supposed
Speaker 1: to be a comedic character. But part of it, also,
Speaker 1: I think, is the reason that they choose a Chris
Speaker 1: over a Rod and this idea of sort of palatable
Speaker 1: blackness and being black but in the right way. He
Speaker 1: works as a photographer, he's involved in the arts, and
Speaker 1: then you find out that Andre Dre was a jazz musician,
Speaker 1: and they're sort of like, you know, pretty chill. When
Speaker 1: we see Dre walking through the suburbs, you know, he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable here, But when he sees that car,
Speaker 1: he kind of turns and walks the other way. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want to get into a confrontation. And I think
Speaker 1: that there is a reliance on choosing palatable black people,
Speaker 1: people that are not going to call people out in
Speaker 1: their face the way that a Rod would like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm out of here.
Speaker 3: Because Chris had so many opportunities to be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a very fucked up thing to say. And to
Speaker 3: be clear, I am not you know, passing judgment against
Speaker 3: him for not calling out people in those situations. I
Speaker 3: just mean that it happened very frequently that he was
Speaker 3: put into those situations.
Speaker 5: Which almost feels like it's getting into I mean, just
Speaker 5: speaking to like the like working artists, it's like that
Speaker 5: becomes a class thing too, where I feel like, you know,
Speaker 5: Rod working for the TSA and having a working class
Speaker 5: job versus Chris being a working artist. Like yeah, like
Speaker 5: you're saying, GRAMA is like a very intentional choice from
Speaker 5: I mean by the armitages, but also you know, by Chris.
Speaker 5: I thought there was a There was an interesting quote
Speaker 5: from Jordan Peele. He said, Chris feels like an everyman.
Speaker 5: He's kind of like J Cole. Chris is that guy
Speaker 5: everyone knows who has been in everyone's class at school,
Speaker 5: that good guy from around the area, which is just
Speaker 5: I feel like a really like speaks to what you
Speaker 5: were both just saying. And also that the j. Cole
Speaker 5: comparison is funny to me.
Speaker 1: That's very funny. I wanted to talk about black women
Speaker 1: because there are three black women I would say in
Speaker 1: this movie, two you see when you don't, and the
Speaker 1: two you see are Georgina and the police officer, and
Speaker 1: then the one you don't is Chris's mother. I think
Speaker 1: that it's really interesting the sort of and not to
Speaker 1: rag on Jordan Peel, he made a masterpiece, like I said,
Speaker 1: but the erasure of black women in this conversation and
Speaker 1: sort of the only time that anyone explicitly mentions black
Speaker 1: women and Black womanhood is to talk about the purported
Speaker 1: jealousy that black women express when they see black men
Speaker 1: with white women, which like, you can have him, Like
Speaker 1: it's fine, I'm not mad at you. Calm down, and
Speaker 1: you know how he says, like it's a thing, and
Speaker 1: then Rose tries to downplay it by saying, Oh, you're
Speaker 1: just so sexy that people are unplugging your phone, like
Speaker 1: that's what's happening.
Speaker 5: She responds by gaslighting her mem.
Speaker 1: And you know, at the end of the day, he
Speaker 1: is able to, in a way, heal the trauma of
Speaker 1: not doing what he was supposed to do for his
Speaker 1: mother by going back for Georgina, because even though she
Speaker 1: is inhabited by evil Grandma Armitage, he knows that there
Speaker 1: is a black woman in there. But she's also sacrificed
Speaker 1: in his attempts to escape, and she doesn't kill herself,
Speaker 1: Walter kills himself. So I really am intentionally using the
Speaker 1: word sacrificed. And it's interesting the way that the film
Speaker 1: shies away from showing violence against white women in the
Speaker 1: same way that it shows the violence that Georgina faces
Speaker 1: when she gets hit by the car and later when
Speaker 1: she's in the car because we don't see Missy die
Speaker 1: on screen the camera pans away, and.
Speaker 5: We also don't see Rose technically die. I mean, we
Speaker 5: see her get almost off.
Speaker 1: We see her get shot, but then he stops after everything,
Speaker 1: and I just stop. He just violently violently killed her father,
Speaker 1: her brother, and her mother, but something about her is
Speaker 1: still like he still loves her a little bit, I
Speaker 1: think despite all of that, and watching him wrap his
Speaker 1: hands around her throat, it made me think of Othello
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, yeah, you know, because he
Speaker 1: jokes does Theemona.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've definitely read that. I am so educated, and
Speaker 3: I've read so much Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: Yes, people, for people who aren't as educated in Shakespeare
Speaker 1: as Caitlin.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, please explain it for them.
Speaker 1: Othello is a Shakespearean tragedy that features at its center
Speaker 1: a black man named Othello. Fun fact, my college did
Speaker 1: a production of Othello with zero black people.
Speaker 5: Oh oh my god.
Speaker 1: So we can talk about that on a whole other episode.
Speaker 1: But Othello is this sort of like military, like decorated
Speaker 1: military man, and he has this white wife named Desdemona,
Speaker 1: and this other man, this white man who's jealous of Othello,
Speaker 1: And I might be glossing over a lot. But basically,
Speaker 1: this Maniago, who's jealous of Othello, convinces him that Desdemona
Speaker 1: is cheating on him, and then he murders Desdemona by
Speaker 1: strangling her. And there's a really good you know, I
Speaker 1: love a Shakespeare adaptation, as does any person who was
Speaker 1: a teen in the two thousands, but there's a good
Speaker 1: adaptation with Julia Styles as Destimona called oh and.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've never seen it, but yeah, I remember it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like the visual definitely reminded me of that,
Speaker 1: And when he stopped, I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: And the tragedy of Othello is that he kills this
Speaker 1: woman and then he ends up suffering for it. And
Speaker 1: I wonder if, in this sort of remade version of
Speaker 1: not of Othello but like the do over ending, the
Speaker 1: alternate ending that became the theatrical cut, if it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be a softer ending than him actually killing her,
Speaker 1: because if it is the police, and we think it's
Speaker 1: the police, it's like, okay, well they can save her
Speaker 1: and question her or whatever and she'll lie, but they
Speaker 1: can get rid too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, like they needed to kill her,
Speaker 5: like they had to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean she had to go.
Speaker 5: I mean not even unfortunately, like, yeah, she she had
Speaker 5: to go. But I honestly, like I hadn't really I
Speaker 5: noticed the absence of black women in roles that. I mean,
Speaker 5: so much of Chris's characterization is defined by his mother's absence,
Speaker 5: her violent absence. And yeah, we don't really get to
Speaker 5: spend any time with anyone other than Georgina, who, as
Speaker 5: you were saying, Croma, it's very complicated, like where is
Speaker 5: Georgina within Georgina? But I hadn't really connected the Yeah,
Speaker 5: the the sort of avoidance of violence towards white women.
Speaker 5: I kind of wonder, like seven years on, if that
Speaker 5: would not be as much of an avoidance if this
Speaker 5: was made right now. I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1: I think I think it probably would be, and I
Speaker 1: do think that also, Jordan Peel is married to a
Speaker 1: white woman, and I think it's very interesting the I
Speaker 1: mean sort of the mention of, you know, black women
Speaker 1: look at East sideways when you're with white women, when
Speaker 1: you're with white women, and maybe that is his experience.
Speaker 1: I love Chelsea Peretti, I'm not looking at anybody sideways.
Speaker 1: They're a great duo, but I do think that, you know,
Speaker 1: the life experiences that we have color the way that
Speaker 1: we see the world. And also, again, he is biracial,
Speaker 1: and I believe that his mother is white, if I'm
Speaker 1: not saying, okay, So I think that his connection to
Speaker 1: white women is interesting. And I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was not to say it wasn't intentional, like he doesn't
Speaker 1: do things intentionally, but I wonder if there was a
Speaker 1: subconscious sort of wanting to protect white women in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very possible. And he had also spoken about
Speaker 3: when he was making this movie that he was concerned
Speaker 3: that it wouldn't do well or that no one would
Speaker 3: come to see it because he was concerned that black
Speaker 3: people wouldn't want to watch black people be victimized, and
Speaker 3: he was worried that white people wouldn't want to go
Speaker 3: see it because white people are the villains. So I
Speaker 3: wonder if that kind of informed some of those choices.
Speaker 3: Hard to say, but I do know that he had
Speaker 3: those concerns when he was making the movie.
Speaker 5: I remember a yeah, because I mean, it's I didn't
Speaker 5: really connect to the fact that I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: I guess this could be an awkward night at the
Speaker 5: Parrettes for Jordan Peel after Get Out comes out. But
Speaker 5: I did remember this tweet from Chelsea Pretti I think
Speaker 5: a couple weeks after Getout came out, where I think
Speaker 5: everyone was, you know, like tweeting at her, being.
Speaker 4: Like, is this about you?
Speaker 5: And Chelsea Pretti replied in a very Chelsea Pretti way,
Speaker 5: she said, we all cried for weeks. We were so
Speaker 5: hurt to see our family secrets exposed in this documentary.
Speaker 5: I almost forgot about that, right, which is the only
Speaker 5: rational response to it, because you're just like.
Speaker 4: Shut up, just go see the movie.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean I think that that is interesting,
Speaker 5: and I guess it's not. Yeah, it's not even like
Speaker 5: necessarily a criticism of Jordan Peele, but just that's that's
Speaker 5: O tour shit where it's like, it's not unreasonable to
Speaker 5: think that some of his own personal stuff is gonna
Speaker 5: get tangled up in it because of how it was made.
Speaker 1: And it's not bad stuff. It's just interesting stuff to
Speaker 1: note and stuff that you know, my personal experience is
Speaker 1: also going to make me notice because I am a
Speaker 1: black woman, and I also I don't know if Rose
Speaker 1: is queer or not, but I also do think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that Georgina is queer and one of the only
Speaker 1: Black women that we, you know, learn the name of
Speaker 1: Get to See is a queer Black woman, and they
Speaker 1: sort of double oppressed her.
Speaker 3: Right we only see a version of her that's inhabited
Speaker 3: by thiss like grandmother, so we don't even get to know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: to your point, Grama, it is. I found it disappointing
Speaker 3: that this movie about anti black racism and black liberation
Speaker 3: because of how the movie ends, mostly leaves out black women.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if this would have been narratively possible,
Speaker 3: but I wish the movie had found a way to
Speaker 3: save Georgina where he unhypnotizes her and there's enough of
Speaker 3: her left in there that she can, you know, be
Speaker 3: liberated from this situation. But it's tricky because, like, you know,
Speaker 3: you see Walter kill himself, and you can imagine that
Speaker 3: it's because he wouldn't want to go on living after
Speaker 3: having experienced these horrors of Welle.
Speaker 1: Also, the other guy is in there and it's mostly him,
Speaker 1: so I think that he's like, no, I'd rather die.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just feel like there is room for there
Speaker 5: is room for black women in this narrative without meaningfully
Speaker 5: changing it.
Speaker 1: I will say. I will say one thing that I
Speaker 1: did think was interesting is we see three coagulate black
Speaker 1: people throughout the film, and two of them are men,
Speaker 1: one is a woman, and the two men get released
Speaker 1: through the camera flash at some point and we see
Speaker 1: a peeking through of the real Georgina. Yeah, without that,
Speaker 1: and the black woman is the only one who is
Speaker 1: strong enough to keep continually fighting to get out to
Speaker 1: the point where she is in tears. And we know
Speaker 1: that your physical nervous system is what is connected to you,
Speaker 1: so those tears are coming from her. It's yeah.
Speaker 3: And the scene when she's pouring tea and like almost
Speaker 3: spills it, it's like she's trying to break free from this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really really really good performance from Betty Gabriel, Like, yeah, who,
Speaker 5: I didn't realize she's like a scream queen. She's a
Speaker 5: Bluemhouse girly in the Purge election year. She is an
Speaker 5: unfriended dark web, which I have seen and I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: she's she's an unfriended dark web. She's in upgrade, she's
Speaker 5: in it, lives inside. I mean, she is a but
Speaker 5: just like a really really great performance from her, especially
Speaker 5: because it's like she's not given that much screen time.
Speaker 4: But Yeah, makes a meal of it. I agree.
Speaker 5: I don't know, like narratively, how to get around all
Speaker 5: of this sort of lore, but I do. It's just
Speaker 5: like there there was room for black women within this
Speaker 5: plot and it feels intentional, feels like too, but like it,
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think. I also think that black men are allowed
Speaker 1: to have their own stories, their struggles an entirely different thing.
Speaker 1: I just am pointing out what I see. And I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people talk about Get Out
Speaker 1: as being black generally, and I think that there are
Speaker 1: a lot of women who are black, a lot of
Speaker 1: women of all races who do love get Out, but
Speaker 1: it is definitely specifically a story about and for black men.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean something that I think Jordan Peel
Speaker 5: does really well. Conversely is like knoweeling how white women
Speaker 5: can weaponize their white womanhood in all.
Speaker 4: Of these different ways.
Speaker 5: Where I mean, by the end, you see that Rose
Speaker 5: has spent whatever the better part of a decade weaponizing
Speaker 5: her white womanhood to bring people to her family's creepy estate.
Speaker 5: And the way that Missy acts, I want to talk
Speaker 5: about Missy a little bit, because it's like that character
Speaker 5: is so ah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do want to just stay on Rose for
Speaker 1: a second and talk about the weaponization of her white woman.
Speaker 1: This and one that I don't think I've ever heard
Speaker 1: anybody talk about, and that doesn't mean people aren't talking
Speaker 1: about it. That stuck out to me on this rewatch
Speaker 1: was when Rod calls to check in on Chris and
Speaker 1: he finally gets through to Chris's number and she does
Speaker 1: this again, absolutely alarming performance. Yeah, just blank blank face,
Speaker 1: and she's like, Chris, where are you? Is this Chris?
Speaker 1: And then Rod's like, he's not with you. He left
Speaker 1: two days ago. And then when Rod is like, you
Speaker 1: know what, this bitch talks too much. I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna catch her and starts recording, she switches tactics and
Speaker 1: makes it seem like he is sexually predatory towards her,
Speaker 1: which is very for me, reminiscent of like Emmett Till
Speaker 1: and this idea of protecting white women's virtue. And he knows.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm fucked, Like this is this is not
Speaker 1: helping Chris. This is only going to hurt me. I
Speaker 1: need to shut this down. This recording is of no use,
Speaker 1: and she knows to do that. She's like, no, he's
Speaker 1: gonna start recording. I've been doing this for ten years.
Speaker 1: I know what to do. And it's very insidious and
Speaker 1: it is very calculated. And I'm also very angry that
Speaker 1: that woman who lied about Emmitt til never went to
Speaker 1: jail and she said she lied. She said she lied, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they were like, well, she's an old lady. What
Speaker 1: are we gonna do. Now.
Speaker 5: That's part of the reason where it's like we should
Speaker 5: be We should have just seen Rose die on screen
Speaker 5: like she has a coming, because you see her, I mean,
Speaker 5: and in the movies last moments, you see her preparing
Speaker 5: to do the exact same thing to Chris. She says, I.
Speaker 3: Love you, she yes, which is tactic.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, like when she thinks that a white
Speaker 5: police officer has arrived, she's preparing to be like he
Speaker 5: attacked me, I don't blah blah blah, and just playing
Speaker 5: into all of these white supremacist narratives that police, you know,
Speaker 5: don't blink at. But thankfully it's the TSA right.
Speaker 3: But even before that, like she's trying to save herself.
Speaker 3: She knows that he wants to strangle her to death.
Speaker 3: So she's like, I love you even though she's just
Speaker 3: tried to kill him with a gun. But she's like
Speaker 3: she to the very very end, she's doing these manipulating tactics.
Speaker 3: Whatever she thinks, will you know, save her, get her
Speaker 3: out of this situation. And he doesn't buy it. But
Speaker 3: then I'm like, just kill her, just strangle her to death,
Speaker 3: finish the job.
Speaker 1: Chris the gun is my favorite plant in Payoff when
Speaker 1: he says at the very beginning, like I just don't
Speaker 1: want to get chased off the lawn with a shotgun,
Speaker 1: and then that is the very thing that happens to him.
Speaker 3: But she, yes, should we get into Missy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about Missy.
Speaker 5: I feel like she is i mean speaking to like
Speaker 5: the generational stuff we've been talking about, Like she is
Speaker 5: a different kind of white woman doing a different kind
Speaker 5: of white woman thing where she's clearly playing off of
Speaker 5: her husband, which you know, later revealed to be this
Speaker 5: very insidious performance. This family like the worst piece of
Speaker 5: community theater ever to take place, but that she's playing
Speaker 5: off of like, oh my husband, please ignore him, Like
Speaker 5: I'm I'm the nice parent, I'm the normal parent, and
Speaker 5: the second she gets Chris alone still tries to sort
Speaker 5: of maintain that for as long as possible, while pushing
Speaker 5: past every single boundary that he sets, until he's plot
Speaker 5: wise completely paralyzed. Yeah, I just noticed you're wearing a
Speaker 5: Shrek shirt.
Speaker 3: Sorry, yes, well, I mean I wasn't sure when or
Speaker 3: if I would bring this up, but I did at
Speaker 3: some point want to draw some parallels between Get Out
Speaker 3: and Shrek two.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, okay, listening the parents.
Speaker 3: So, a man who is marginalized by society goes to
Speaker 3: meet the family of his partner, who is far more
Speaker 3: privileged than he is. It's very uncomfortable. The family, you know,
Speaker 3: makes a bunch of aggressive comments towards him. The family
Speaker 3: of both has a secret that deals with inhabiting a
Speaker 3: different body because in Shrek two, the king is actually
Speaker 3: a frog. Okay, not the same secret, but but there's
Speaker 3: divergences right. Similarly, you know, the protagonists of both movies,
Speaker 3: they either exchange bodies or almost has their body taken
Speaker 3: over by someone else because in Shrek Too, Shrek becomes
Speaker 3: a human, a white human man. So a body swapping
Speaker 3: element in both movies, and both protagonists have a comic
Speaker 3: relief sidekick friend played by a black comedian.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's crazy how get Out is a cheap knockoff
Speaker 1: of Shrek Too.
Speaker 5: Don't tell that to the guy worked with, so he'll
Speaker 5: be taking that theory all around town.
Speaker 3: I feel well, I read was this true that Shrek
Speaker 3: Too takes inspiration from guess who's coming to dinner?
Speaker 1: I would believe that. I one believe that having seen
Speaker 1: both movies.
Speaker 5: I vaguely, I vaguely remember us talking about that in
Speaker 5: our Shrek two episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Jordan Peele, you know, cites that is somewhat
Speaker 3: of an inspiration for get Out as well.
Speaker 5: So by way of by way of Shrek Too.
Speaker 3: And then the get Out and Titanic parallels are that
Speaker 3: both movies have a character named Roseye come from a
Speaker 3: rich white family.
Speaker 4: Wow, the end.
Speaker 3: That's the end of.
Speaker 5: Those the similarities. Hopefully we don't know. Our family is
Speaker 5: pretty pretty fucked. Yeah do we have?
Speaker 4: Is there anything else we wanted to talk about with
Speaker 4: with Missy?
Speaker 3: Just that Again, everyone in this family is such a
Speaker 3: master manipulator, and they're doing things to either put on
Speaker 3: the facade of allyship to try to manipulate Chris into
Speaker 3: feeling more of a sense of ease, or they are
Speaker 3: weaponizing things about him against him, like you know, Missy
Speaker 3: with the almost like using therapy speech as a weapon
Speaker 3: in the way that some people do.
Speaker 1: Know what I was gonna say, is, you know, by
Speaker 1: leaps and bounds therapy and psychiatry and psychology, is it
Speaker 1: feel dominated by white women? Definitely more psychology than psychiatry,
Speaker 1: just because you know, medicine. But I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: that we have created a sort of system where the
Speaker 1: people that you're supposed to turn to in trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate, you know, what you're struggling with,
Speaker 1: for the most part, are white women, And like, what
Speaker 1: if white women are the problem? And which is true
Speaker 1: in this case. And she's let me help you, let
Speaker 1: me help you stop smoking. He's like, no, that's fine,
Speaker 1: I'm good. And it's not that he doesn't want to quit.
Speaker 1: He just doesn't want to get hypnotized with good reason, right,
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, trust me, bro, And that's sort
Speaker 1: of like the thing you I mean, I have never
Speaker 1: had a black therapist. I have primarily had white women therapists.
Speaker 1: And I've had some great therapists but there are times
Speaker 1: in therapy where I have to like stop and explain
Speaker 1: something in a way that I wouldn't have to if
Speaker 1: I had somebody who was from a similar background to me.
Speaker 1: And there are times where it's like, you look like
Speaker 1: the problem. And now I'm at a point in my
Speaker 1: therapy where I'm comfortable enough, but it's hard at first
Speaker 1: to be like, you look like the problem, and I
Speaker 1: need to tell you about the problem, and I need
Speaker 1: you to not take this personally, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if you can do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which theoretically a therapist should, but boy, are there
Speaker 5: are a lot of therapists out there who take shit so personally.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it felt very again just like intentional of in
Speaker 5: a gendered way, like you're saying, like, because therapy in
Speaker 5: the US is so dominated by white women, and the
Speaker 5: fact that like it's almost sort of implied with like, well,
Speaker 5: the man is the doctor the surgeon, and the woman
Speaker 5: handles emotions, and it's like it's prescriptive in a gendered
Speaker 5: sense too, but they are very much working in tandem
Speaker 5: with each other towards a common goal.
Speaker 4: And just like Catherine.
Speaker 5: Keener is so scary and I feel like also is
Speaker 5: just very well cast in like, you know this lady,
Speaker 5: she wouldn't hurt you, right, Like it's.
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting that when they're talking about
Speaker 1: Jeremy being in medical school, Dean says, oh, he wants
Speaker 1: to follow in his old man's footsteps, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you're both doctors. I hope you know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, rightst psychiatrist go to medical school.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: So there are these little like I do appreciate, I
Speaker 5: guess in movies where it's like gender discrimination is acknowledged,
Speaker 5: but not as something that would get you off the
Speaker 5: hook for being actively aggressive in the way that Missy is,
Speaker 5: where like the harm is like this is not the
Speaker 5: same amount of aggression that's being experienced, and she is
Speaker 5: the perpetrator of so much of it. And yeah, I
Speaker 5: guess we should have seen her die on screen a
Speaker 5: little more brutally. It's weird that we didn't.
Speaker 1: It could be a contract thing. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Katherine Keener will not screen.
Speaker 5: I know that the Julia and Moore thing, Julia Moore
Speaker 5: will not die on screen. That's her. That's her rule,
Speaker 5: So I guess don't look for her in a slasher movie.
Speaker 1: My favorite rule is that Denzel Washington will not kiss
Speaker 1: white women on screen. Really yea good for him, and
Speaker 1: not because he's got anything against them, but because he
Speaker 1: thinks that it would be alienating to his target demographic,
Speaker 1: which is primarily black women. And I think that that
Speaker 1: is absolutely true, particularly black women of a certain age.
Speaker 1: And I think that it's really interesting and kind of
Speaker 1: wonderful that he has put that much thought into it.
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, I know who I know who
Speaker 1: supports me, and I want to support them back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Yeah, that's beautiful. My favorite rule of an
Speaker 3: actor is that Leonardo DiCaprio has to be fully clothed
Speaker 3: in water in all of his movies. This is not
Speaker 3: actually substantiated. This is not kram I see your face.
Speaker 5: It's it's just something that happens mysteriously in every Leonardo
Speaker 5: DiCaprio movie. I think he might have a no topless
Speaker 5: rule or something. I feel like you rarely see him
Speaker 5: shirt yeah, most hunks you see short lists more. I
Speaker 5: feel like maybe he's just not comfortable with it.
Speaker 3: There's like ten movies where he's fully clothed in water.
Speaker 5: We've been working on this theory for years.
Speaker 1: I feel like the woman in that meme where there's
Speaker 1: like math in front of her. I'm like, what, like,
Speaker 1: it's like a beautiful mind. I'm like putting things together.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't think I've ever seen that man
Speaker 1: with his shirt off in water.
Speaker 3: You're right, it's a Titanic, Romeo, Plust, Juliet inception, the
Speaker 3: Shutter Island. The list goes on.
Speaker 5: There's a few exceptions, but it's way, yeah, vastly. He's
Speaker 5: he's always wearing a clingy shirt underwater.
Speaker 4: The beach anyway, the Beach one.
Speaker 5: Of our famous, our most famous underwater actors and later
Speaker 5: add to Dicapria.
Speaker 1: One thing I.
Speaker 4: Wanted to just get everyone's feeling on.
Speaker 5: I mean, this is like a again trope of the
Speaker 5: horror genre, but the Stephen Root character, which I was
Speaker 5: also like, how do I know this guy? How do
Speaker 5: I know this guy? Milton got Space, Milton off Space
Speaker 5: Office Space. Yeah, did not connect that until this viewing.
Speaker 5: Good for Milton, but the incorporation of his blindness as
Speaker 5: a you know, I don't know, it's just I'm curious
Speaker 5: what you guys think from a disability perspective of how
Speaker 5: that is used, because I know that's something that is
Speaker 5: used in the horror Disability is weaponized in the horror
Speaker 5: genre very frequently.
Speaker 4: I think it is.
Speaker 5: Easy to understand what you know, Jordan Peel is going
Speaker 5: for metaphorically with sight and the sort of horrific quality
Speaker 5: of a white man wanting to literally steal and take
Speaker 5: a black man's perspective from him, which I feel like
Speaker 5: is very much what he's saying, because Chris as a photographer,
Speaker 5: his perspective is very you know, crucial to who he is,
Speaker 5: and you know, Jim Hudson knows he's very town and
Speaker 5: he wants to take that from him and claim it
Speaker 5: as his own. So I think as a metaphor it works, but.
Speaker 1: It feels absolutely like nonsensical to think that now that
Speaker 1: you're in his body and you have his physical eyes,
Speaker 1: that you will gain his perspective because his talent being
Speaker 1: a photographer is not about having literal good eyes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about noticing things, and the ways that we notice
Speaker 1: things are influenced by the things that we go through.
Speaker 1: And we can see these sunken place people and how
Speaker 1: they're not black, like they look black, They're not black.
Speaker 1: There's nothing about them that feels black. And it was
Speaker 1: interesting that and I'll get back to Stephen Root's character
Speaker 1: in just a second. It was interesting that Chris said
Speaker 1: that when he saw Dre he felt like he knew him,
Speaker 1: and it sort of felt like kind of a positive
Speaker 1: inversion of the idea that all black people know each
Speaker 1: other and like knowing your people when you see your people.
Speaker 1: And he was very clear that like, I didn't know
Speaker 1: that first guy, I knew the second guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the guy who came at me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, which I think was interesting with Stephen Root
Speaker 1: and the blindness. I think one he gets to Nazee
Speaker 1: color and very explicitly says like I could give a
Speaker 1: damn about what color you are. I half wanted him
Speaker 1: to say, like he could be black, white, green.
Speaker 5: Purple, that old boomer boom chestnut.
Speaker 1: I love it when they say that. It's so funny.
Speaker 1: To me, it's so funny because like, show me the
Speaker 1: purple people, show.
Speaker 4: Me the purple, well, show me the green people. It's Shrek.
Speaker 1: But anyway, but the thing about obviously like he gets
Speaker 1: to be colorblind, and that's a statement on that, and
Speaker 1: it's like even if you're not seeing race, you're still
Speaker 1: being racist. But also talking about disability in horror, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of times disability makes the people evil.
Speaker 1: It's like they're disfigured and we're seeing they're evil on
Speaker 1: the outside. This for me feels more like the problematic
Speaker 1: aspect of disabled people always wanting a cure for their disability,
Speaker 1: and he's willing to go to these evil lengths to
Speaker 1: get a cure for his blindness, which is yes, comes
Speaker 1: from a genetic disorder and it's not something that he
Speaker 1: was born with. But it's like when you have a disability,
Speaker 1: it is a change in perspective and it is a
Speaker 1: change in the way you live your life. But not
Speaker 1: everybody wants a cure for their disability. They want accessibility,
Speaker 1: but they don't want a cure, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: That and it's just another example of a disabled character
Speaker 3: being played by enable bodied miltoner by Milton. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that could have been handled very differently and
Speaker 3: better than it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not. I mean, it's not the most egregious
Speaker 5: example we've seen of it by a long shot in
Speaker 5: the horror genre, but it did feel worth mentioning, And
Speaker 5: I honestly, I mean, like even hearing you say, like,
Speaker 5: how like ridiculous is it that Jim Hudson would expect
Speaker 5: to like gain Chris's artistic perspective by having his body
Speaker 5: is like just another way that he's reducing every black
Speaker 5: person he encounters to a body versus a person or
Speaker 5: a consciousness or like you know, he's like eyeballs equal perspective,
Speaker 5: which is pretty fucking rich coming from an art dealer.
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, so you just don't understand your own job,
Speaker 5: which is a lot of people in high places, so.
Speaker 1: You can just say you want to see Jim like
Speaker 1: it's okay, Yeah, yeah, you can say that, right, and
Speaker 1: that's okay, you can want that. Yeah, don't lie to
Speaker 1: yourself and don't lie to me that you're like, I
Speaker 1: want to be able to take real good pictures. That's
Speaker 1: the goal.
Speaker 5: That's why I'm doing the eugenicist experimented Bradley went for
Speaker 5: his house. It's just fucking horrible, Like I yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: and I do think that it's like a valid point
Speaker 5: that yeah, I mean, the fact that you know, Jim
Speaker 5: Hudson sort of uses his disability to explain why he
Speaker 5: isn't racist, where that's not how racism works. It's not
Speaker 5: connected to your ability to see it's connected to how
Speaker 5: you've been societally conditioned. And Jim Hudson is fifty sixty
Speaker 5: whatever years old. Yes, he does have internalized and externalized racism.
Speaker 5: So I get I mean, I don't know, I get
Speaker 5: why from like a writing perspective, Jordan Peele did that.
Speaker 5: But yeah, there's a few things that I mean, starting
Speaker 5: with by actually casting a disabled actor would have you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, because there's no reason not to. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: literally there's no reason you don't have to draw.
Speaker 5: Right. It took me almost ten years to figure out, Oh,
Speaker 5: that's Milton.
Speaker 1: And you know, he's a great actor, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: that there was a great blind actor who could have
Speaker 1: then been the draw for the next big movie if
Speaker 1: we knew who he was for sure.
Speaker 3: Yes, I also wanted to chat about the character of
Speaker 3: Hiroki Tanaka. Yes, so this is one of the party
Speaker 3: goers at the Armitage family party. He is the lone
Speaker 3: Asian man, the only person of color who hasn't been
Speaker 3: you know, coagula procedured, and he's one of the people like,
Speaker 3: you know, bidding in this auction, and a lot of
Speaker 3: people were like, wait a minute, why is an Asian
Speaker 3: person at this racist party hanging out with all these
Speaker 3: racist white people, and a lot of people have written
Speaker 3: about it, and the response was mixed, where some of
Speaker 3: what I saw were op eds from Asian writers that
Speaker 3: interpreted the inclusion of the Hiroki Tanaka character in this
Speaker 3: particulgular context as commentary on the existence of anti black
Speaker 3: racism and complicitness in white supremacy in the Asian community.
Speaker 3: I'll share a quote from a piece by Rainier Miningding
Speaker 3: in Next Shark entitled why Get Out? A movie about
Speaker 3: anti black racism, had an Asian character says, quote to
Speaker 3: understand why the Asian man asked this being the question
Speaker 3: that he poses, which is something like, do you find
Speaker 3: that being African American has more advantages or disadvantages in
Speaker 3: the modern world? So that's the question the character asks.
Speaker 3: So to understand why the Asian man asked this, you
Speaker 3: have to consider Claire gene Kim's theory of racial triangulation.
Speaker 3: Racial triangulation posits that Asians exist on a spectrum where
Speaker 3: they are one perceived as better than blacks but not
Speaker 3: as good as whites, and two categorized as perpetual foreigners
Speaker 3: who will never be accepted as quote unquote full Americans.
Speaker 3: According to racial triangulation, Asians are in racial limbo, trying
Speaker 3: desperately to achieve whiteness and status as quote unquote real
Speaker 3: Americans by stepping on the heads of black folks. So
Speaker 3: when the Asian man asks Chris, is the African American
Speaker 3: experience an advantage or disadvantage, he wasn't just making small talk.
Speaker 3: He was wrestling with the decision of whether or not
Speaker 3: it would be better to trade bodies with Chris and
Speaker 3: experience anti blackness, or stay the same and live life
Speaker 3: as an Asian man in America and experience xenophobia unquote.
Speaker 3: And that piece goes on to describe other ways in
Speaker 3: which Asian people have been complicit in white supremacy, not
Speaker 3: saying that that's a universal thing or anything like that,
Speaker 3: but that there is a history of that happening. And
Speaker 3: then other writers felt the portrayal of this character plays
Speaker 3: into stereotypes about Asian people and perpetuates the idea of
Speaker 3: Asians as foreigners and perpetuates the myth of Asian people
Speaker 3: being the quote unquote model minority. Where friend of the
Speaker 3: show Olivia Truffau Wong wrote in a piece on Bustle
Speaker 3: entitled why the Asian character in Get Out matters. She says,
Speaker 3: quote the inclusion of such an individual in this particular
Speaker 3: context trivializes the Asian experience. The discussion of race relations
Speaker 3: between Asians and African Americans is an important one and
Speaker 3: it deserves more than a throwaway line and a few
Speaker 3: short scenes unquote. So again, mixed interpretations of it, but
Speaker 3: I just wanted to.
Speaker 1: I think everyone's right. I think that it is a
Speaker 1: very nuanced conversation. A couple of things that I'll say.
Speaker 1: I want to first talk about the Supreme Court, which
Speaker 1: I could talk about the Supreme Court for a long time,
Speaker 1: but I specific want to talk about I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys remember Becky with the bad grades, that
Speaker 1: girl who didn't get into University of Texas at Austin.
Speaker 1: And she was like, it is because I am being
Speaker 1: discriminated against because I am white. And she wanted to
Speaker 1: get rid of which has successfully happened. Wanted to get
Speaker 1: rid of affirmative action, which white women are the primary
Speaker 1: beneficiaries of. She wanted to get rid of affirmative action
Speaker 1: in college admissions because she didn't get into the school.
Speaker 1: And she's like, I saw people who were less qualified
Speaker 1: than me, who were black and brown who got in,
Speaker 1: and they just got in because of that, which what's
Speaker 1: funny to me is, first of all, Becky with the
Speaker 1: bad grade, you t Austin has an admissions policy where
Speaker 1: if you were in the top ten percent of your
Speaker 1: high school class, you automatically get in. You can go
Speaker 1: to Utube. I didn't know that. Yeah, no, that's what
Speaker 1: makes it so much funnier to me. And she was like,
Speaker 1: well I didn't get in, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 5: You weren't good enough at school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like you should have invested more time
Speaker 1: in working on your grades, ma'am. But I do think
Speaker 1: that it is very interesting that that Supreme Court case
Speaker 1: failed when the white woman was the person behind it,
Speaker 1: but succeeded when it was spearheaded by Asian people. And
Speaker 1: Asian people were saying that they were hurt by these
Speaker 1: quotas because people can like, we're like, oh, there's too
Speaker 1: many Asian people who are excelling and who are qualified,
Speaker 1: and we have to have a certain number of them.
Speaker 1: And now that we've had this policy in place for
Speaker 1: a few years, the numbers of Asian people who are
Speaker 1: getting into elite colleges has in fact decreased who defunk it.
Speaker 1: But and with the idea of Asians being seen as
Speaker 1: the perpetual foreigner, which I think is very true. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because my parents are actually immigrants, and people
Speaker 1: never assume that about me. Because people, when they see
Speaker 1: black people in America make a sound about the Atlantic
Speaker 1: slave trade, and the majority of black people in America
Speaker 1: did end up here because of that. But Asian people
Speaker 1: who have been here for just as long and who
Speaker 1: you know, came and were building railroads and also helped
Speaker 1: build this country are seen as foreigners, which is bad.
Speaker 1: It's bad, end of story. But when you're applying to college,
Speaker 1: they don't see a picture of you, but they see
Speaker 1: your name, and if you have a name that sounds
Speaker 1: explicitly Asian, even if they don't see you, they make
Speaker 1: their judgments. And I think that it's really interesting that
Speaker 1: Asians were spearheading this because of that particular detail that
Speaker 1: there are more Asian people who have names that specifically
Speaker 1: out them as Asian than there are black people who
Speaker 1: have names that specifically out them as black, especially because
Speaker 1: black people in America for a very long time have
Speaker 1: and I think the tide is turning on this more now,
Speaker 1: but have specifically named their children so that they would
Speaker 1: be able to later in life, be able to get
Speaker 1: jobs and be able to have like a resume name
Speaker 1: that wouldn't get their resume thrown out. And then the
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to say about I forgot his name,
Speaker 1: Hiroki Tanaka, that's his name? Is that Jordan Peele explicitly
Speaker 1: said that he was paying homage to again Rosemary's Baby
Speaker 1: because at the end of Rosemary's Baby there is one
Speaker 1: Japanese man there. And he said that it's about the
Speaker 1: double worship being a global thing. It's not just these
Speaker 1: people in this place. It is global. And I think
Speaker 1: that if we look at it from that perspective, it
Speaker 1: could be a nod to the idea that anti blackness
Speaker 1: is global. And we think of anti blackness, and we
Speaker 1: think of black and white a lot in this country,
Speaker 1: but there are more layers and more nuance to it.
Speaker 3: It is far reaching. Jordan Peele lists two other reasons.
Speaker 3: He was a guest on the Tiger Belly podcast hosted
Speaker 3: by Bobby Lee and Klaia kuhn Yep and they ask
Speaker 3: him about this about this character being included in the movie.
Speaker 3: And I'll paraphrase here, but Jordan Peel in addition to
Speaker 3: the homage to Rosemary's Baby and you know, wanting to
Speaker 3: kind of showcase how far reaching an underground society like
Speaker 3: this could be. He also said that, and you know,
Speaker 3: we can discuss this if we want, but he wanted
Speaker 3: the fact that because the character's first language is not English,
Speaker 3: and he's posing the question in a kind of more
Speaker 3: direct way than perhaps a native English speaker might ask
Speaker 3: a question like that, he wanted to like use that
Speaker 3: to heighten the awkwardness of the situation. So there's that.
Speaker 3: And then he also says, and also, like, what doesn't
Speaker 3: make sense an old Japanese billionaire comes and wants to
Speaker 3: buy a black body, I think is what he says.
Speaker 3: He's interrupted by the host, so it's kind of hard
Speaker 3: to tell what the last few words were, but I mean,
Speaker 3: that is why all those people are there for the party.
Speaker 3: So but anyway, the hosts jump in and they agree
Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, it makes sense to me, honestly.
Speaker 3: So those are the least the reasons he cites.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, I.
Speaker 5: Don't feel like I can make any intelligent comment on this,
Speaker 5: I think get Out is not a movie that is
Speaker 5: I think trying to deconstruct this particular dynamic, and it's
Speaker 5: I feel like it is always a slippery slope between
Speaker 5: expecting everything of one movie. But I agree with the
Speaker 5: Krama that all, like every perspective we've talked about makes
Speaker 5: total sense, and there's no like perspective on that character
Speaker 5: that I don't know. I'd be comfortable being like, no,
Speaker 5: you're wrong, because I think you can also go into
Speaker 5: like histories of colonialism between different countries. I mean, there's
Speaker 5: like a lot of different ways to approach that conversation.
Speaker 1: Of like also co opting blackness for like cool aesthetics.
Speaker 1: That is something that is very prevalent in many different
Speaker 1: Asian countries. I would say most prevalent in the way
Speaker 1: that we see K pop borrowing from arguably stealing from
Speaker 1: black R and B music from the nineties and sort
Speaker 1: of recreating these sort of like voice to men situations,
Speaker 1: and they even have like similar dance aesthetics and things
Speaker 1: like that. It's very much steeped in black culture. And
Speaker 1: like I saw Black Pink in concert with my mom
Speaker 1: because I'm cool and also parent.
Speaker 4: I love that you and your mom went together.
Speaker 1: It was we went to Coachella together and Black Pink
Speaker 1: was headlining, so it's even cooler than you thought. But
Speaker 1: my mom was kind of like checked out during Black Pink,
Speaker 1: which I expected that that's fine, that's not her her vibe.
Speaker 1: She listens to Joni Mitchell, so I but I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: aren't they cool? And my mom was like, I just
Speaker 1: I'm really sick of people who are not black taking
Speaker 1: black things and becoming more popular than black people. And
Speaker 1: so I don't think that the prospect of this Japanese
Speaker 1: billionaire coming to this party and wanting to co opt
Speaker 1: blackness in a way is that far reaching. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we can have the conversation about wrestling with
Speaker 1: is it better to be experiencing xenophobia or is it
Speaker 1: better to be experiencing what it is to be a
Speaker 1: black American, which they're all, it's it's not good either way,
Speaker 1: I think personally. But I also think that there is
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, Jim talks about. I keep
Speaker 1: wanting to say Jim Henson instead of Jim Hudson.
Speaker 3: Because it's like Jim Hudson Galleries, and you've got like
Speaker 3: Jim Henson Studio.
Speaker 5: Would never Oh, I thought we were talking about Jim Henson, I.
Speaker 1: Know, But Jim Hudson talks about like because Chris asks
Speaker 1: the very valid question why black people, which also makes
Speaker 1: me think of Zulander, Why male models?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, oh Zuland.
Speaker 1: But he asks why black people, and Jim says, some
Speaker 1: people want to be faster, some people want to be stronger,
Speaker 1: some people want to be cooler. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it's out of the realm of possibility that a wealthy
Speaker 1: Asian businessman would want to be cooler. I just think that, oh,
Speaker 1: taking a black man's body is the way to do that, right,
Speaker 1: I think that there is precedent for them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess I like assumed that the intention of
Speaker 5: including that character was to say that anti blackness is
Speaker 5: a global problem and not a problem that is siphoned
Speaker 5: to white liberal Americans, even though they're obviously a disproportionate
Speaker 5: perpetrator of anti blackness. But I also like totally understand
Speaker 5: the perspective that, like, having such a complicated dynamic siphoned
Speaker 5: into like one character is not gonna sit well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the movie did not benefit enough
Speaker 1: from that addition to be like, no, it's necessary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that it's fine with it. I think it
Speaker 1: would have been just as fine without it. But I'm
Speaker 1: glad that that man got a job that is not
Speaker 1: an actor.
Speaker 3: He's Ken Marino's father in law.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a karate master.
Speaker 3: What wait, Yeah, he's not really an actor, although there
Speaker 3: is an actor named Hiroki Tanaka.
Speaker 1: Oh that's fine, you know, different guy.
Speaker 3: Well, because a lot of the op eds I read
Speaker 3: about this, it's like it's a character named yeah, so
Speaker 3: he go a Yoma played by actor Hiroki Tanaka, but
Speaker 3: it's flipped. Yeah, the guy's real.
Speaker 5: Name is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he go a Yoma. But they, I think
Speaker 3: were just like looking up what the actor's name was,
Speaker 3: and because there was an actor named Hiroki Tanaka, they
Speaker 3: thought that that anyway.
Speaker 5: So that's so it's it's so funny, like how in
Speaker 5: Jordan Peel's work you occasionally just get like a weird
Speaker 5: gen X comedy connection. We were like, oh, yeah, of course
Speaker 5: Jordan Peel and Ken Marino are pals, and this would
Speaker 5: be some weird thing that would happen in the same
Speaker 5: way that in US when you're like, wait, why is
Speaker 5: Tim Heidecker here and you're like, oh, because him and
Speaker 5: Jordan Peele have probably known each other for five thousand years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know the reason that he hired this
Speaker 1: man who was not an actors because they were doing
Speaker 1: all of the casting for the secondary characters in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: And shockingly, there are not a lot of Japanese actors
Speaker 1: in Mississippi.
Speaker 3: Well I thought it was Alabama.
Speaker 1: Oh, maybe it was Alabama.
Speaker 3: I could be either way, but yeah, I mean not
Speaker 3: not a lot of Japanese actors in either place. Something
Speaker 3: I remember learning a while back, or maybe it was
Speaker 3: even kind of recently that sort of show. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was recently, because this was revealed on Graham Norton's show.
Speaker 1: I Love Graham Norton. My goal in life is to
Speaker 1: be famous enough to be a guest on Graham Norton.
Speaker 4: I wish you all the best that's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: Daniel Klulia was on the show and revealed that he
Speaker 3: was not invited to the world premiere of Get Out
Speaker 3: at the twenty seventeen Sun Dance Film Festival. He said
Speaker 3: he cleared his schedule knowing when it would happen, thinking
Speaker 3: he would be invited and then he was just never
Speaker 3: invited and blames it on the industry.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm sure people advocated for him to be invited, but yeah, he.
Speaker 4: Just was nominated for an Oscar what.
Speaker 3: No, he was not invited and so he did not
Speaker 3: go to the premiere. Yeah, I don't think I had
Speaker 3: anything to do with any like bad Blood or anything
Speaker 3: between like him and Jordan Peele they go on to
Speaker 3: make Nope together and everything. But yeah, he just wasn't
Speaker 3: invited and someone fucked up.
Speaker 1: Basically, I'm curious if like Catherine Keener was invited and
Speaker 1: Alison Williams was invited. Maybe they weren't either, But I'm curious.
Speaker 3: Hard to say, we don't.
Speaker 4: We don't know.
Speaker 3: I haven't looked it up.
Speaker 5: But he's I just am like he is the star
Speaker 5: of the movie.
Speaker 1: Like it makes me so sad.
Speaker 4: That, Yeah, that's ridiculous. Well that's a bomber.
Speaker 5: I did not know that. However, this movie was obviously
Speaker 5: don't need me to tell you.
Speaker 4: Tremendously successful.
Speaker 5: It was made for less than five million dollars and
Speaker 5: made a quarter of a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Geez, Louise, Yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Didn't even I didn't realize it was like making its
Speaker 5: budget back eighty times successful, but it absolutely was obviously
Speaker 5: launched an incredible directing career for Jordan Peel, and Jordan
Speaker 5: Peele also produces a lot of a lot of director's
Speaker 5: works as well. It seems like, I mean, whatever, we
Speaker 5: love Jordan Peele. We don't need to belabor that point,
Speaker 5: but that this movie got It also won Jordan Peele
Speaker 5: his first Oscar. He won for Best Original Screenplay, also
Speaker 5: a nomination he got a nomination for Director. I don't
Speaker 5: know who he lost to that year, but the movie
Speaker 5: was nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor for
Speaker 5: Daniel Caluia, and Best Original Screenplay, and it won Best
Speaker 5: Original Screenplay.
Speaker 1: And Jordan Peele is the first and only black person
Speaker 1: to win for Best Original Screenplay. I will say there
Speaker 1: are like, I think seven or eight black people who
Speaker 1: have won for Best Adapted Screenplay, So that's got a
Speaker 1: little bit more a little bit more weight behind it.
Speaker 1: I yeah, And I think it's interesting that there's such
Speaker 1: a disparity between original and adapted, and it kind of
Speaker 1: speaks to sort of the fun thing that's happening in
Speaker 1: the industry right now where they want a sure thing,
Speaker 1: and they're like, this thing that was already commercially successful,
Speaker 1: that we can adapt this ip. We will. We will
Speaker 1: take a chance on you to do that because we
Speaker 1: are pretty sure that you can't fuck it up.
Speaker 3: And that's why we don't have enough original stories from
Speaker 3: marginalized filmmakers in general.
Speaker 1: Because it's like Precious. I think the guy who wrote
Speaker 1: Precious based on the novel Push by.
Speaker 4: Sapphire famously based on.
Speaker 1: It's right there on the poster, which I think Sapphire
Speaker 1: like made them include that legally good for her, which
Speaker 1: you know, because the book has a different title and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be forgotten and overshadowed by the movie. And
Speaker 1: I you know what, I more power to her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But Precious based on novel Push by Sapphire. The guy
Speaker 1: who wrote that was the first black person to win
Speaker 1: Best Adapted Screenplay, and I know that the guy who
Speaker 1: wrote Twelve Years of Slave also won. I think that
Speaker 1: American fiction most recently won. And then two of the
Speaker 1: four writers for Black Clansmen were black as well, and they.
Speaker 4: Won, which is a Jordan Peel produced movie.
Speaker 1: He's everywhere, It's all connected, everywhere, his influence.
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm looking back at the Academy Award page
Speaker 5: from this year, it's always funny. I mean, and I
Speaker 5: like the Shape of Water a lot, but the Shape
Speaker 5: of Water sort of became the Oscar Movie of the
Speaker 5: Year this particular year, where right with all love to
Speaker 5: Giamo del Toro and the Shape of Water a movie
Speaker 5: I very much like, you know, get Out and Ladybird
Speaker 5: and Phantom.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, I was gunning hard for get
Speaker 3: Out to win Best Picture, and I will admit being
Speaker 3: furious that Shape of Water one instead.
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I mean it's not only I mean,
Speaker 5: there's so much like horror movies are so I mean,
Speaker 5: I think get Out kind of changed this narrative. But
Speaker 5: not only is you know, Jordan Peel marginalized director, he's
Speaker 5: also directing a genre film. And I feel like the
Speaker 5: Oscars love to dismiss genre films up until very recently,
Speaker 5: because get Out was so fucking good.
Speaker 1: I think only six horror films have been nominated for
Speaker 1: Best Picture, and Silence of the Lambs is the only
Speaker 1: one that's ever won.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Exorcist too, because we just covered that on the
Speaker 3: The Exorcis the Matreon, But it didn't win.
Speaker 4: It just was nominated.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I don't think the Issis won anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they took away like one our hearts.
Speaker 3: It was nominated for like ten things and won only two.
Speaker 5: I want to say I was kind of surprised I
Speaker 5: was nominated for that much in any case. I mean,
Speaker 5: I like, get Out broke all of these barriers, and
Speaker 5: I feel like it's not very often discussed what a
Speaker 5: huge thing it was for the horror genre as well
Speaker 5: of just like getting all of these I mean, because
Speaker 5: it is a masterpiece and it is better than the
Speaker 5: Shape of Water. Not to pit them against each other,
Speaker 5: but that's what the oscars is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, first movie or no, not for it was his
Speaker 1: first movie. It was his directorial debut.
Speaker 4: It was Yeah, he wrote Keanu, he did not direct Kian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we don't know what Keanu could have
Speaker 1: been had they let Jordan direct.
Speaker 5: His vision would have changed the game. I also thought
Speaker 5: it was this was just nice. I don't I mean,
Speaker 5: I don't know what the deal is with Key and Peele.
Speaker 5: I feel like there's all these theories as to why
Speaker 5: they don't work together anymore. However, get Out was made
Speaker 5: possible by Keeth and Michael Key, and he introduced Jordan
Speaker 5: Peel to a producer director he knew the producer of
Speaker 5: like Donnie Darko, and that was like, how this conversation
Speaker 5: around get Out got started was by his friend and
Speaker 5: collaborator being like, Jordan is obsessed with horror movies. He
Speaker 5: has a lot of great ideas. You should talk to him,
Speaker 5: And that was how get Out sort of came to be.
Speaker 3: So yeah, they had a lunch and Jordan Peel pitched
Speaker 3: get Out to this producer and he like bought the
Speaker 3: pitch at that very moment, and.
Speaker 5: Thank god different times truth, I know, I was like,
Speaker 5: this was ten years ago.
Speaker 1: I actually can very confidently say that the reason that
Speaker 1: Key and Peel don't work together anymore is a disagreement
Speaker 1: over a recipe for chibapyous.
Speaker 5: It was a documentary the whole time.
Speaker 1: What if I had the tea? What if I actually
Speaker 1: had the tea? You know, I think their careers are
Speaker 1: just going in different directions and different people have different priorities.
Speaker 5: And I know the Twitter algorithm is design to torture
Speaker 5: me with speculation as to why they don't work together.
Speaker 5: So maybe it's just always on my mind because the
Speaker 5: algorithm decided that.
Speaker 4: But if anyone knows, let me know.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love when a movie and I feel like
Speaker 3: this happens, maybe most often with horror thriller type movies,
Speaker 3: but when the audience is so affected by it that
Speaker 3: they become like for example, Fatal Attraction, everyone like being
Speaker 3: so scared of Glenn close and like being afraid that
Speaker 3: that would happen to them, Or the way that like
Speaker 3: Misery made everyone be so afraid of Kathy Baits and
Speaker 3: I the.
Speaker 1: First time I ever saw Kathy Baits on film was
Speaker 1: in the movie Misery when I was twelve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh it was now too.
Speaker 1: I was too young and she was too scary, And
Speaker 1: I can't watch Matt Locke.
Speaker 5: Now you watch Titanic, though, But that sentence was a journey.
Speaker 4: This is a journey.
Speaker 3: But just the way that like certain movies will have
Speaker 3: such a cultural impact and like incite fear in so
Speaker 3: many people. I feel like get Out is another one
Speaker 3: of those movies where on like dating apps, for a
Speaker 3: few years after this movie came out, I saw a
Speaker 3: lot of people's profiles be like, if you're a white woman,
Speaker 3: please don't get out me, Like that was a thing,
Speaker 3: so so interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing that, which doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Speaker 1: I think I've blocked out a lot of the trauma
Speaker 1: of dating apps.
Speaker 3: They're so traumatic.
Speaker 1: My favorite dating app copy pasta for a while was
Speaker 1: when Game of Thrones was still in the air. It
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm just a bastard looking for my
Speaker 1: wild lang and I'm like, okay more, Oh dude, awesome,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you. The first time I saw it,
Speaker 1: I chuckled, and then I realized that guy and come
Speaker 1: up with it, and.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, isn't that.
Speaker 5: It's such as Yeah, every time you're like, oh, that
Speaker 5: man was clever, and you're like, wait a second, that's a.
Speaker 4: Thirty year old movie. I haven't seen.
Speaker 5: Fuck you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he loves the office, Oh my god, oh.
Speaker 4: Wow, so original?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: Or another Game of Thrones thing is I'm still not
Speaker 3: over the last season of.
Speaker 4: Game of Thrones.
Speaker 3: Oh you and eight million other people shut up say
Speaker 3: yeah that too. Anyway, does anyone have any other thoughts
Speaker 3: about Get Out?
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the music for a second. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the guy who did the music was the same
Speaker 1: guy who did the music for us, and I talked
Speaker 1: a little bit about him and not. And his name
Speaker 1: is Michael Abels, and I love him. This was his
Speaker 1: first film score ever, nailed it ever in the world.
Speaker 5: He was like a professional composer, but he's just never
Speaker 5: done a film.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah he and he went to like
Speaker 1: the Thornton School of me at USC so he yeah,
Speaker 1: he has the pedigree, he has the talent, and now
Speaker 1: he's a Pulitzer Prize winner. Fun fact, he won the
Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize for Music in twenty twenty three for an
Speaker 1: opera that he wrote called what is it called? I
Speaker 1: don't think down? What it was called Omar Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was about Omar ibn said, who was an
Speaker 1: enslaved Muslim man, and he wrote a he wrote an
Speaker 1: autobiography that was primarily an Arabic and it's, I think,
Speaker 1: if not the only, one of the only autobiographies by
Speaker 1: an enslaved person written primarily in Arabic.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about Michael Abels is that,
Speaker 1: you know, he sort of cut his teeth on this
Speaker 1: very successful film. And he is a black composer. And
Speaker 1: if you look at his work on IMDb, he has
Speaker 1: by and large worked on films that tell black stories
Speaker 1: like he worked on See You Yesterday, also worked on
Speaker 1: us and films that have primarily black casts, which I
Speaker 1: think is a really interesting calling card and you know,
Speaker 1: a gift to be able to do not exclusively those.
Speaker 1: He worked on Bad Education, which.
Speaker 4: By that weird HBO movie. I was like, huh is
Speaker 4: that what my friend.
Speaker 1: Wrote that movie? Oh? Really, my friend Mike, who I
Speaker 1: saw it out with. Yeah, my god, white Mike.
Speaker 4: That's so that's wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched that movie.
Speaker 5: I think that movie came out during the pandemic, right.
Speaker 1: It came out during Lockdown.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I need to rewatch it because I feel like
Speaker 5: I saw it, liked it, memory hold it because Lockdown.
Speaker 1: Yeah, highly recommend am fully biased. But my mom also
Speaker 1: liked it, and she was like, oh my god, tell Mike,
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of him. Hugh jack Finn, I'm telling
Speaker 1: the truth.
Speaker 5: And Jenny Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3: I have no memory of this movie. I'll have to
Speaker 3: check it out.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about That Education well, because it was so
Speaker 1: theatrically released. If you want to talk about it, I
Speaker 1: have an end with Mike.
Speaker 5: Mike, come on the pod. That's fascinating. I didn't realize
Speaker 5: that Michael Abels had gone on to win a Pulitzer
Speaker 5: since we last talked about him.
Speaker 4: That's fucking incredible, and.
Speaker 1: Not the first black opera to win a pullet Serprize,
Speaker 1: which I thought was really interesting. There was one that
Speaker 1: I actually saw, and I'm gonna be really honest, I
Speaker 1: did not like that was about the I think the
Speaker 1: Exonerated five is what they're called now, but the people
Speaker 1: who were accused of that horrible sexual assault in Central
Speaker 1: Park all those years ago and were eventually exonerated because
Speaker 1: they were in fact innocent. But there was an opera
Speaker 1: about that as well that won a Pulitzerprize. So I
Speaker 1: think that it's interesting that there is this sort of
Speaker 1: growing world of black opera telling black stories, and that
Speaker 1: Michael Abels is, you know, out there repin yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: There's also like I just now that we have three
Speaker 5: Jordan Peel movies too to pull from, Like you can
Speaker 5: see sort of how he has like this repeated motif
Speaker 5: of rabbits in his movies and then like the opening
Speaker 5: song and like the repeated song, yeah.
Speaker 1: Where's the rabbit in No, I don't remember the rabbit.
Speaker 5: I don't know there was a rabbit refer it was not.
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like US is still the movie
Speaker 5: that obviously references rabbits most heavily. Yeah, because that opening
Speaker 5: shot lives in my mind rent Free all the time.
Speaker 1: But I've said it before and I'll say it again,
Speaker 1: the most upsetting and scary part of the movie US
Speaker 1: was the part at the beginning where they talked about
Speaker 1: all the tunnels creepy. I'm not okay, I don't like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unsettling. Yeah, as far as the Bechdel test goes,
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the movie Probab passes. I wasn't
Speaker 3: really paying much and Rose and Missy.
Speaker 1: It like lightly passes. Yeah, I think that there's the
Speaker 1: conversation that Missy and Georgina have about how it's like
Speaker 1: you should lie down that passes. But I do think
Speaker 1: the majority of the conversations are about Chris, So I
Speaker 1: don't think Missy and Rose have any one on one conversations.
Speaker 1: I don't think Georgina and Rose have any one on
Speaker 1: one conversations. There just aren't a lot of women also, right,
Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of people.
Speaker 3: To be fair, this is true, but it does feel
Speaker 3: especially glaring knowing that black women were mostly left out
Speaker 3: of this narrative, right, and it just speaks to the
Speaker 3: need of more stories featuring black women and black people
Speaker 3: of marginalized genders.
Speaker 1: And I will say black women are much much more
Speaker 1: at the center of the stories that are in us
Speaker 1: And Nope, yes, for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's definitely an you know, continued glaring thing throughout
Speaker 5: his filmography. Yeah, so I yeah, And I also, I mean,
Speaker 5: just going back to your original point at the beginning
Speaker 5: of the episode, Krama, it's like, this is a movie
Speaker 5: made by a black men about black men and for everyone,
Speaker 5: but it's like particularly made with that audience in mind.
Speaker 5: And that's you know, we don't have a lot of
Speaker 5: movies like that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I think that he gets to tell
Speaker 1: that story, and I'm so glad that he told that story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that it resonated on this massive
Speaker 1: global scale where people enjoyed it, people were moved by it,
Speaker 1: people were provoked to think by it regardless of their
Speaker 1: own personal experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. As far as our nipple scale zero to five
Speaker 3: nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 3: I mean, and maybe this is just how much I
Speaker 3: love this movie coming into play here, but I want
Speaker 3: to give it like four four and a half nipples.
Speaker 3: I do feel like there could have been and should
Speaker 3: have been more inclusion of black women.
Speaker 4: In this narrative.
Speaker 3: Make Little Rall's character, you know, cast a woman in
Speaker 3: that role that's an active participant in the story, who's
Speaker 3: you know, helping and who saves Chris at the end.
Speaker 3: You know, that could have been something or just found
Speaker 3: other ways to include black women more significantly. So with
Speaker 3: that in mind, I think I'll give it four out
Speaker 3: of five. But I just I love this movie so
Speaker 3: much and I think it has so many interesting, important
Speaker 3: things to say, And yeah, four nipples. I'll give one
Speaker 3: to Jordan Peel, I'll give one to Betty Gabriel who
Speaker 3: plays Georgina. I'll give one to Sid the Dog, and
Speaker 3: I'll give my final nipple to the Gremlins. Two sketch
Speaker 3: of k and people.
Speaker 5: I'm going to meet you at four.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like, because this is a podcast about
Speaker 5: intersectional feminism, it cannot get the full five unfortunately, But
Speaker 5: you know, I think that this is I'm I'm glad
Speaker 5: and encouraged to see that Jordan Peele has centered and
Speaker 5: prioritized black women in the movies that he's made since.
Speaker 5: So I would maybe granted a little more harshly if
Speaker 5: we didn't have the sort of benefit of future knowledge.
Speaker 5: This is not a continued issue in his filmography and
Speaker 5: get Out is just a fucking masterpiece.
Speaker 4: We didn't get into it.
Speaker 5: But I also think it was I'm trying to remember.
Speaker 5: I think it was maybe on the press cycle for Us,
Speaker 5: where there was this expectation that all of Jordan Peele's
Speaker 5: movies were going to be about race, and then US
Speaker 5: wasn't explicitly about race, and it like broke a lot
Speaker 5: of moviegoers' brains where they're like, wait, why are you
Speaker 5: trying to make a move about something else? And he's like,
Speaker 5: because I'm a filmmaker.
Speaker 4: And I have other things I want to talk about.
Speaker 1: And like people were like, but there's black people.
Speaker 5: In it, but it's not explicitly about race, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: Like I yeah, he's he's had to be at the
Speaker 5: center of all of these like obnoxious media press cycles,
Speaker 5: and I just like, also.
Speaker 1: The movie was not about like blackness, but it was
Speaker 1: very explicitly about the idea of stealing land and the
Speaker 1: idea of taking land from Native people, indigenous people in
Speaker 1: this country. Yeah, and how we're living on top of
Speaker 1: them and their second class citizens. Like that was not subtle,
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
Speaker 5: I mean, and I think that that just like goes
Speaker 5: back to something we've talked about on the show a
Speaker 5: lot of just like when you are a marginalized filmmaker,
Speaker 5: that you are expected to only make stories that reflect
Speaker 5: your specific experience, and that like original stories outside of
Speaker 5: your own experience that references your own experience in the
Speaker 5: way that like an executive would expect is.
Speaker 4: Not permissible or is like this.
Speaker 5: Radical act when it's like, no, that's just what filmmakers do,
Speaker 5: and it's not an opportunity that's given to enough marginalized filmmakers.
Speaker 5: So anyways, just Jordan Peel fucking rocks. I like, his
Speaker 5: movies are so distinct, and get Out is probably one
Speaker 5: of the old timer like directorial debuts. It's it's ridiculous,
Speaker 5: it's it's unfair, it's fucked up. He's so good. So
Speaker 5: I'm gonna give it four nipples. I'm gonna give two
Speaker 5: to Jordan Peel, one to Daniel Cleia because it's just
Speaker 5: like the wildest performance, and I'll I'll also give one
Speaker 5: to Betty Gabriel.
Speaker 1: Nice I am. I'm gonna come in a little lower
Speaker 1: than you guys on the nipple scale. I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: it three nips. I was going to start with one,
Speaker 1: but then I heard you guys out and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: they have points, they have points. Let me, let me,
Speaker 1: let me readjust so I'm going to do three nipples.
Speaker 1: I think that through the lens of intersectional feminism, the
Speaker 1: best thing that this film does is lambast the weaponization
Speaker 1: of white womanhood, and that is like that was always
Speaker 1: going to get one of the nipples. I think it
Speaker 1: does a great job at that, and it is very
Speaker 1: unflinching in its ability to do that. I'm going to
Speaker 1: give a nipple to Daniel Kluya because I've loved him
Speaker 1: since his days is Posh Kenneth on Skins, which fun fact,
Speaker 1: he also wrote an episode of Skins.
Speaker 4: Really not kidding, God, he's so fucking cool. I forgot.
Speaker 5: I was like, where did I think I had I
Speaker 5: had first seen him in Black Mirror.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And then I will give my final nipple
Speaker 1: to Georgina's no no, no, no no scene.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 1: I love a scene that just really stands out, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of up there for me with Viola Davis
Speaker 1: in Doubt, which interesting that they both involve a black
Speaker 1: woman crying but stand out performances.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Well, we haven't brought up doubt in a while
Speaker 3: on the show.
Speaker 1: I love about times what I'm here for now.
Speaker 5: We found it. We found it in the eleventh hour.
Speaker 5: We brought it back to doubt.
Speaker 3: All roads on the podcast lead back to Titanic, Shrek
Speaker 3: or doubt.
Speaker 4: And occasionally a doubt.
Speaker 5: Just word saying Alfred Molina could have been in this movie,
Speaker 5: but I'm just assuming he was busy.
Speaker 1: I feel like he also could have been not Jim Henson,
Speaker 1: but Jim Hudson.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, we want a disabled actor to play a disabled character.
Speaker 1: But if they were gonna cast a draw non disabled actor,
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I you know, let's let's speak it
Speaker 5: into an existence, a Jordan Peel al Ford Molina collaboration.
Speaker 5: It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.
Speaker 5: And I personally can't wait for when.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, Karama, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 3: once again. Come back anytime.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me again.
Speaker 3: Oh we love having you. Tell us where people can
Speaker 3: follow you online and check out your work.
Speaker 1: I am at Karama Drama on all platforms including Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm back on Twitter. I came crawling back.
Speaker 4: I there with you.
Speaker 1: I had a thought about yogurt and I had no
Speaker 1: one to tell it too, so I wish I were joking,
Speaker 1: but that's what brought me back. I was like, strawberry
Speaker 1: yogurt is that bitch, and no one can tell me otherwise.
Speaker 5: You're like, Okay, I'm reactivating. I'm reactivating.
Speaker 1: So Karama Drama on Twitter, Instagram occasionally TikTok, but really
Speaker 1: not really it's too much, man.
Speaker 5: I'm too I'm too fucking old. I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm a watcher. I'm just not a creator.
Speaker 1: I don't have it in me. That's I am like
Speaker 1: a plus commenter though, I feel like my comment game
Speaker 1: on point. So if you follow me, I'll comment on
Speaker 1: your stuff. Where can they find you, guys?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 3: You can follow me at Caitlin Durante on Instagram and
Speaker 3: you can follow us on Beachtel Cast also on Instagram
Speaker 3: and our Patreon slash Maytreon. Two episodes a month, it's
Speaker 3: five dollars a month and it's always on a fun
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Speaker 1: Yes, that's less than a latte, honestly, a.
Speaker 5: Steal, exactly exactly. And you get our back catalog of
Speaker 5: over one hundred and fifty episodes.
Speaker 4: It's a blast.
Speaker 5: We've been having fun over there. We just are finishing
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Speaker 5: why exercise the Exorcises top of mind. We did the
Speaker 5: exercise and Pearl Over in the Matreon this month. If
Speaker 5: you to check it out, it's a blast over there.
Speaker 5: You can get merch at teapublic dot com slash the
Speaker 5: Bechdel Cast, which is the name of the podcast. I
Speaker 5: just almost said it wrong, and uh with that, all
Speaker 5: hail the TSA.
Speaker 1: Yes, Wow, yes, bye bye.
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