1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't welcome to 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: steffand ever told you protection of I Heart Radio. So, Samantha, 3 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: were you ever into celebrity gossip? Was that everything? Yeah? 4 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I So I'm not gonna lie. When I see a 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: listical by BuzzFeed about celebrities, I'm gonna I'm gonna go 6 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: look at it. Probably now. Of course, there's some that 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm just like what, and then some that's just happening 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and then I get caught up in it. 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, So has that been like for 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: a long time? Yeah? I think I definitely. If I'm 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: at a place where there's magazine, so let's say I'm 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: waiting for the doctor, I'm going to go for the 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, entertainment weekly. That's what I'm gonna look at 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: before anything else. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I was 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: more like I diditely Entertainment Weekly. I was more into 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: like teasers of like the next Harry Potter movie, and 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: lessened to the celebrity gossip aspect. And I only have 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: like one exception in Bryan Gossing. I went all in 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: and I like no facts about his life that I'm 20 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: ashamed of at this point, I actually did not like 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: I just love see. I know I've made this distinction before. 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: I usually I love the fictional character and I do 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: love the actor that played them, but I don't really 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: look them up. I don't really know much about Mark Cambill, 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: to be honest, okay, other than what time is sweets? 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: But didn't you love Kana Reeve just him? Was it 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: a character? Yeah? General too, because you and I had 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: the whole debate about where he was from, and you 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: were like, no, is this it was so adamant? And 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, I there's certainly like in his 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: instance and else Mark Hamill. I watched other things they 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: did that I probably would not have watched to this day. 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: I refused to watch Point Break again because it disturbed 34 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: me so badly. It could also be that I I 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: didn't have like ready access to the internet, and the 36 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: only magazine I subscribed to at the time was Adventure 37 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: Disney Adventure, So whatever was in there was my celebrity gossip. 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: I guess I did know a lot about Billy Joe Armsure. Yeah, 39 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: I say, did you not watch Entertainment Tonight or Access Hollywood? 40 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: Because I definitely watched all those No I didn't, but 41 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: I did watch. I watched late night talk shows, but 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: I actually usually left when the guests come on, which 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: is still true to this day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 44 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: think there's something about it that makes me nervous that 45 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: I feel weird, like I'm invading privacy. Except for hot ones. Yeah, 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: even then, even then I get weird about especially if 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: it's like a personal question. I feel awkward, like the 48 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: way you feel awkward watching like people get embarrassed. That's 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: why I'm like, oh no, I don't want to I 50 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: don't want to know this personal detail about your life. 51 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: I feel straight good to know. Yes, I think it's complex, 52 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. Fair, my history with it is complex. 53 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: But that being said, we wanted to bring back the 54 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: history of gossip in Hollywood and scandal in Hollywood because 55 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: of some episodes we have coming up about the women 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: of the nineties, which has been a huge topic of 57 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: conversation lately. Yes, so please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome 58 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: to Stuff Mom Never Told You from House top Works 59 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 60 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we have a very special 61 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: guest on the podcast, doctor and Helen Peterson. That's right. 62 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: Dr and Helen Peterson writes a whole lot of awesome 63 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: stuff on so many websites. Where when does she sleep? Um, 64 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: focusing on star studies, celebrity culture, and especially celebrity scandals. Yeah. 65 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: She received her PhD from the University of Texas at 66 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: Austin in the Department of Radio, Television and Film. And 67 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm explaining this because you might be thinking, how does 68 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: one study celebrities? Well, this is how you do it. 69 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: She also wrote a dissertation called the Gossip Industry, Producing 70 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: and Distributing Star Images, Celebrity gossip and Entertainment News. And 71 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to look into the history of Hollywood gossip. 72 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: It says so much about our society and about how 73 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, we're we're such a tabloid society today. And 74 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: she is working on a book that will be published 75 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: in May by Plume Penguin called The Scandals of Classic Hollywood, 76 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: based on her column for The Hairpin by the same name. 77 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: And so we decided, but we got to talk to 78 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: Dr Peterson, Annie about scandal that's right, the show, the history, 79 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: the gendered aspects of course, yes, and some feminism. We 80 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: have a lot to talk about, so let's get on 81 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: with our scandalous conversation with Anne Helen Peterson. The title 82 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: of your blog is Celebrity goss of Academic Style. And 83 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: for listeners who aren't familiar with your work, can you 84 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: fill us in a little bit about how you've built 85 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: your career around the intersection of celebrity in academia. Yeah. So, 86 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: celebrity studies is something that you know, I have by 87 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: no means invented. It's been There's something called star studies, 88 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: which is a sub field of media film studies. UM, 89 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: that's really been around the late seventies and eighties. There's 90 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: this scholar named Richard Diard wrote this book called Stars 91 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: that like, when I first read it was like one 92 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: of those horm moments, really saying that you can look 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: at a star and read it a star's image the 94 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: way that you would read any other media text. So 95 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: think about what they're suggesting in terms of like gender 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: and sexuality and all sorts of things about living in 97 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: the world. Um. And the reason my blog is called 98 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: Celebrity Gossip Academic Style, Uh, you know, I wanted it 99 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: to be very very clear about precisely what I was doing, 100 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: which was focusing on celebrity gossip, which everyone everyone, lots 101 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: of people really enjoy, but then also um making it 102 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: clear that I would be looking at it not from 103 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: a critical angle, but from an introspective and analytical angle. 104 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: And so I think that the reason so many people 105 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: like my blog is because they wanted to think deeper 106 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: thoughts about this gossip that they're consuming, and I provide 107 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: kind of a roadmap about how to do that. Um. Now, 108 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: this is probably a question that you've been asked a 109 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: lot or maybe not, um, what is the academic value 110 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: of studying and analyzing celebrity scandal and gossip? Because I 111 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: have a feeling that you've probably encountered some people who 112 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: are like, celebrity gossip that's not worth studying. Oh yeah, well, 113 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: I think that I mean, whatever we consume, right, whether 114 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: it's television or books or magazines or comic books, like, 115 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,119 Speaker 1: whatever media we consume is shaping us in all sorts 116 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: of ways. And I think that like most people would 117 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: agree to that that, Like, you know, this is no 118 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: but like whether it's what we call trash or if 119 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: it's high quality doesn't matter, Like, these are things that 120 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: give us pleasure so why don't we think about why 121 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: we were consuming to things that were thinking that worked 122 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: to um And I mean that's really a turn actually 123 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: that in in media studies, it's only happened in the 124 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: last say, like thirty years. Is instead of decrying all 125 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: of this pop culture stuff as tray ash and saying like, oh, 126 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: this is just numbing the masses, instead thinking about how 127 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: individuals take pleasure from them, but also looking at them 128 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: more closely and thinking about the messages that they propagate. 129 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: So like celebrity, I mean every single celebrity, I could 130 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: tell you what they're doing in terms of like how 131 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: they're suggesting a certain sexuality or gender performance, or a 132 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: way of being romantic, or a scenario that is in 133 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: some way palatable like the The thing that I always 134 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: get is people like when they when I say a 135 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: study celebrity, they almost always say something like, I don't 136 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: understand why so and so is the celebrity And ten 137 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: years ago that was always Paris Hilton and now it's 138 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian and what I love to do there? And 139 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: this isn't this isn't I didn't come up with this. 140 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: My friend Alice Lebert came up with this, but to say, okay, 141 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: so look at Kim Kardashian's family. She has like this 142 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: thundering dad. She has like she's the older sister who 143 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: who's a prize but isn't really not interesting. She has 144 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: a younger sister who is really interesting but not as 145 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: traditionally beautiful. She has a gaggle of younger siblings who 146 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: the mom is all concerned getting married off. And she 147 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: has a mom who is trying to salvage a once 148 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: for the best family. And that scenario to think about it, if, 149 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pride and prejudice, and so to think 150 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: about why, you know, it's not that Kim Kardashian herself 151 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: is so compelling. I mean, there's all these other things 152 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: that make her interesting, but how she is acting now 153 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: as scenario that oh, that has been compelling to us 154 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: for you know, hundreds of years. Okay, So that's that's 155 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: a really interesting statement. I never thought about celebrity worship 156 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: or following celebrities that way. Um What I'm interested in 157 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: what appeals to you personally and how you ended up 158 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: in this field. But what appeals to you personally about 159 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: following celebrities lives? Um? So there's this uh scholars. His 160 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: name is Joshua Gamson, and he came up with he 161 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: did this huge study of gossip consumers and he came 162 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: up with five different ways that people consume gossip. And 163 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: there are a very front things from people who read 164 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: the magazines and believe every single thing that they read, 165 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: to people who beat them as pure camp, right, is 166 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: just total artifice. And the one though that really is 167 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: so compelling to me and really I identify with, is 168 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: called the game player, which is someone who looks at 169 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: gossip as a puzzle. So trying to figure out, Okay, 170 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: why did their pulicies say this? Like what are they 171 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: doing by appearing at this event? Like why after there's 172 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: rumors that Ben Affleck has been cheating on Jennifer Garner, 173 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: does paparazzi conveniently appear and take pictures of her children 174 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: in the park? Um? So thinking about it as this 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: puzzle that like every every celebrity is trying to put 176 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: together this image. So I am much more interested in 177 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: production side and thinking that through. So growing up, though, 178 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: where did you follow celebrity gossip? Where you always kind 179 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: of the trying to figure out that puzzle to at 180 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: a young age. Oh no, I was much more interested 181 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: in just like entertainment broadly. I lived in a really 182 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: small town in northern Idaho, so there wasn't my My 183 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: exposure to the media world was through the magazine that 184 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: came to my house, and we got Entertainment Weekly from 185 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: the very beginning, and I was like a twelve year 186 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: old child. I was devouring every single issue like I 187 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: would this is so embarrass student, but I would put 188 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: it together in like a database that I had on 189 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: my Apple TV and put like the different things catalog unit, 190 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: and then I would grade the issue, like if the 191 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: issue was like a B plus, and it's like I 192 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: just I read it cover to cover, even though all 193 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: of this industry information, like you know, this was when 194 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly was much more industrially focused, So like there's 195 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: all this stuff on Sundance and Harvey Weinstein and sex 196 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: Lights videotape, and I knew all every thing about those movies, 197 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: but I have never seen them and I wouldn't see 198 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: them for another ten years. And so I think that 199 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: that focus on production and on kind of the game 200 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: plane behind the scenes really translates well into my focus 201 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: on solving data. So you're currently writing a book about 202 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: the quote scandals of classic Hollywood and UM quick plug 203 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: for any listeners who have not seen your series by 204 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: the same name on the hairpin, it is fantastic. Um. 205 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: So could you talk a little bit about these old 206 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: school scandals, like, how do old Hollywood scandals compare to 207 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: the sex scandals we hear about today? I mean, are 208 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: we are we still the public still being shocked by 209 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: the same type of star behavior. Well, scandal generally is 210 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: always culturally specifics. So what I mean by that is 211 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: that you something only become scandalous when it rushures the 212 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: status quote that time, so Ingrid Bergman in n cheated 213 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: on her husband with Roberto Russell Mini, who was her director, 214 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: was an Italian, the umber Less director. And now, you know, 215 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: if someone cheats on their husband, but it's you know, 216 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: it's slightly gameless. But Ingrad Bergman was denounced on the 217 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Senate floor as an instrument of evil and essentially ended 218 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: her American career. You know, that sort of a backlash 219 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: would not happen today. So what it was is that 220 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: she was challenging what was very firmly a part of 221 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: the status quo at that time. So you know things 222 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: today like even coming out as as gay right like 223 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: Rock Hutson refused even after it was revealed that he 224 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: had aids to come out as homosexual. And now, I mean, 225 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: I think that there's there's a reason why Tom Cruise 226 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: like refuses or not just not suggesting that Tom CRUs gay, 227 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: I am suggesting that he has won lawsuits against people 228 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: who have suggested that he is gay by claiming that 229 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: heterosexuality is crucial to his image and so like, it's 230 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: not necessarily I don't want to say that it's super 231 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: super easy to be our in Hollywood today, but there's 232 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: it's not what we would think of as scandalous. So 233 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: I would say that difference is that, um, so early Hollywood, 234 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: like early twenties, before they had the stars, kind of 235 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: like on Lockdown, there were a series of events that 236 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: emphasized that the like things were a little bit crazier. 237 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: So um, there was a lot of drinking and drug 238 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: use and more sexual experimentation basically sex out of my 239 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: luck than what we would what the rest of America 240 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: wanted to leave of their film idels. And so the 241 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: m p A, which is the Association of Studios, decided Okay, 242 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: let's lock it down. And for the rest of the 243 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: twenties and thirties and forties, essentially there was just, you know, 244 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: absolutely the only thing that came out about the stars 245 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: with the thing that the studios wanted to say about 246 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: the stars. So until Robert Mitchum got caused smoking pot 247 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen four seven forty eight, there wasn't a scandal. 248 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: Like it was just Hollywood was perfect. And even things 249 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: that happened like Clark Cable clearly like not living with 250 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: his wife and living right next door to Carol Lombard, 251 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, there was a way that the studios collaborated 252 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: with the fan magazines and the rest of the gossip 253 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: apparatus to be like they're just dating and they like 254 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: they are meant for each other and kind of keep 255 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: that on the download. So, I mean, I think that 256 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: now it's harder for stars to keep their images in control, 257 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: simply because there are so many different UH outlets, both 258 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: sanction and unsanctioned, that are attempting to tell their story 259 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: and attemption to get to the truth of their images. 260 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: But otherwise, I mean, stars of always been wild, like 261 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: that hasn't changed. Yeah, because it sounds like I mean 262 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that we would read about 263 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: in say Star magazine today, like someone cheating on someone 264 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: else or someone doing drugs at a club, Like those 265 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: kinds of behaviors aren't anything new. But maybe it's just 266 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: the level of exposure that we're actually now just like 267 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: seeing it and hearing about it. Yeah, and I actually 268 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: think that that does it right, that likes someone cheating 269 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: just because we see it so often. Although the thing 270 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that we still think we 271 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: still want to find out the truth of someone's sexuality, 272 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: like that is still at the bottom the site of 273 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: often too truth. So whether that and I'm not saying 274 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: just like heterosexuality or homosexuality, it's also like is this 275 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: person is a woman super sexual? Or like is there 276 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: any other predilections in bed? Like that is somehow really 277 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: if we can find that out, it seems like you 278 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: can somehow I'll understand the true identity person in right, 279 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: And that whole gender divide is something that we were 280 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: really interested in, particularly um in your dissertation where you 281 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: talk about how early Hollywood scandal in the twenties in 282 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: particular was especially damning for female stars and why do 283 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: you think why were studios so anxious about these women's 284 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: images and how did they try to keep their female 285 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: stars so squeaky clean. I mean, I think in the 286 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: teens and twenties, there was already this anxiety about the 287 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: new woman and the flapper and like the woman being 288 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: out of the home and just like all sorts of 289 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: disruption in terms of traditional female gender rules, and a 290 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: lot of the stars acted that out. So someone like 291 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: Clara Bow was on screen like she was just she's 292 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: the perfect they called her like the flapper par excellence. 293 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: But then off screen when she did similar behaviors that 294 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: somehows seems that deemed can't scandal us, so they try 295 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: to um, they really tried to suggest that this person 296 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: is only acting this way on screen and not that 297 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: way offscreen. So when it became clear that like Clara 298 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: but was having lots of boyfriends and like Corey, like 299 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: she loved hanging out with the USC football team and 300 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: that sort of thing, that that I've caused more societal 301 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: and anxiety. But I think throughout Hollywood women have always 302 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: had a harder time of trying to keep their images 303 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: simultaneously sexual on screen and non sexual off screen. Yeah, 304 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: I was gonna ask whether or not you thought that 305 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: Hollywood scanals are still even today more potentially damaging for 306 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: female stars were justs male stars. I feel like, especially 307 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: in terms of fidelity, like if we find out that 308 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: the whole thing with you know, the build up to 309 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: the Vanity Fair piece that never happened about Gwyneth Paltrow, 310 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: everyone wants to hear that she's cheating on Chris Martin, 311 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and it's just like this weird like we're just like 312 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: salivating for her to do something wrong. Yeah, totally no. 313 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: And I think, like trying to think of another example, 314 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: So someone like Claire Danes, who was the other woman 315 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: with Billy krut Up and Mary Louise Parker, she didn't 316 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: work in Hollywood for several years after that because like 317 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: both of their names were kind of smeared. Um. Yeah, 318 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: I think that it's just like still as supposedly progressive 319 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: as we are now about women's sexuality, which you know, 320 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: if you've watched politics over the last five years, clearly 321 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: we're not. There. Still is this idea that a woman 322 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: should like look like they really want to have sex 323 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: on the cover g Q, but then not actually have 324 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: any sex. Well, what does it what does it say 325 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: about us and about our cultural relationship with sex that 326 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: we are so and we have always been so wrapped 327 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: up in celebrity sex scandals. UM. I would say, like anything, 328 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: that there is this anxiety about that their people like 329 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: freak out about shows that it's something that we as 330 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: a culture still trying to figure out how we feel 331 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: about it. And so that continual anxiety about women's sexuality 332 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 1: shows that this is still something very much um in 333 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: play and that, uh, while there are different things that 334 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: seem progressive about women's rights, we still are hung up 335 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: on the idea that a woman should, uh should at 336 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: heart beat like only one to have sex with one 337 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: man and that man is her husband. It's a very 338 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: like puritan ideal of female sexuality. Well, we certainly have 339 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: more questions for an Annie. Dr Peterson, so many, so 340 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: many different names by which to call you when we 341 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: come right back from a quick break and now back 342 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: to the show. Just not a curiosity. Um. In your research, 343 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: have you noticed whether or not this is more of 344 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: an American or Western centric kind of culture of the 345 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: obsession with a sex scandal, or is this something that 346 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna see in tabloid culture around the world. Um, 347 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: I would say that it's the obsession with sexual revelations, 348 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: like that's definitely the case. There's been a huge scandal 349 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: recently in China about some Chinese stars and sexual revelations 350 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: female ones. And but in Europe, I think it works 351 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: somewhat differently. Um Like, I think that when when Ingrid 352 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: Bergman left the United States after there was huge hoopla 353 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: and she went and worked in Italy for the next 354 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: fifty years. And you know this, even though you're at 355 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: that time, you know, post World War Two, it wasn't 356 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: the super progressive Europe that we think of today. There's 357 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: still is just more. I think there's a larger understanding 358 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: that somehow someone's sex life is their private life, right, 359 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: and even the fact like if you look at France, 360 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: like yes, they're always going to cover the president's um 361 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: sexual lives and the fact that they have mr this 362 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: isn't that sort of thing. But even the fact that 363 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: they have a mistress, right, that makes it like the 364 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: fact that the president of France can have a mistress 365 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: somehow makes that would be speakable, like different arrangements speakable 366 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: in France. That makes sense. But I wonder though, is 367 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: that is that more progressive the fact that it's like 368 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: fine for the him to have a mistress, you know 369 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: what I mean, I would say that it's less luck shamy. Yeah, 370 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I don't think that like allowing a 371 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: man to have many sexual partners is necessarily progressive. But 372 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: instead of making the woman kind of fair the brunt 373 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: of these these sexual scandals, it makes uh, it makes 374 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: it more of a conversation about what like the whole 375 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: thing that makes sense? Well, speaking of scandal in politicians, 376 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: this is the perfect time to transition to, um, what 377 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: is honestly my TV guilty leisure that I rarely tell 378 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: anyone that I watch, Uh, And that's Scandal, And that's 379 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: a show that you write about the watches. Um, yeah, 380 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know why I'm so conflicted about 381 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: my my scandal habit, but I definitely have one. Um. 382 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: But you wrote on your blog that it's quote a 383 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: show that's doing some of the most interesting network work 384 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: in storytelling, female desire, post feminism, race, and the intersections 385 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: between all of the above, which first of all makes 386 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: me feel a lot better about my scandal habit. You know, 387 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: there's so many things going on on that show. Yeah, 388 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about in the in 389 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: the fictional realm of Scandal and that show sort of 390 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: what you mean by all of those intersections going on? Yeah, well, 391 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: I actually think so the first season of Scandal, they 392 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: did a lot more in terms of solving like a 393 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: single scandal each episode, remember this, Yeah, Yeah, much more 394 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: episodic in terms of like, Okay, so here's a politician 395 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: who is gay, right, and how do we deal with 396 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: the fact that there is clear proof and like a 397 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: newspaper is that I need to reveal it? So how 398 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: does Olivia Pope and the rest of the team fix 399 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: a scandal? And that, to me, I mean that is 400 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: super super fascinating, this idea of like fixers out there 401 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: who you know, it's the same as George Cluney's role 402 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: in Michael Plaine, and they had tons of fixers in 403 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: classic Hollywood who, like anytime star got wasted and drove 404 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: home drunk and ran into a telephone poll, that sort 405 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: of thing would go in there and fix the situation. 406 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: And I mean that's just so much harder now because 407 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: because there's paparazzi falling starts everywhere. But that sort of 408 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: kind of defense, playing defense against things that could come 409 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: out and change the image of the star. I think 410 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: that that uh, showing the kind of the inners of 411 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: that production, of that that process makes people think more 412 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: about how these things were. I mean, it's fictionalized, but 413 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: at the same time, just showing that there are five 414 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: people who are who are doing all of these things 415 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: to make sure that the release of a piece of 416 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: information goes smoothing. And then I mean, I think that 417 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: the show, I mean, the show really got its wheels 418 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: when it started just focusing on the relationship between Olivia 419 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: and Fits. But at the same time, that's when it 420 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: lost some of the more interesting focuses, like the more 421 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: interesting emphasis on what was going on with fixing scandals 422 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: that didn't have anything to do with actually Olivia. Right, 423 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: I was actually sick earlier this week, so I caught 424 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: up on my scandal, so I've kind of been thinking 425 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: about it and not to you know, to give spoilers 426 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: or anything to people listening, you might not be caught up. 427 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: But the the intense focus on her relationship with Fits, 428 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: I feel like almost undercuts the feminism of Olivia Pope's role, 429 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: which is frustrating. Yes, because her identity really becomes subsumed 430 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: in this romance, when otherwise it's clear that she's like 431 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: this ball busting, take no prisoners woman, right, and who 432 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: has in the past. It's not that she's not a 433 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: sexual person, right, She's had relationships and she's had sexual 434 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: encounters with people who aren't fits, And but she just 435 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: becomes so passive and weak when it comes to his 436 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: power over her. I think, like the the identity of 437 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: a female showrunner and a female showrunner of color is 438 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: really I mean, I like, it's important to have people 439 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: like Shonda Rhimes working in the industry. But then also 440 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 1: how discussions of race, Like it wasn't really until the 441 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: end of season two that there was any invocation that 442 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: the real scandal if it came out that the president 443 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: was having an affair with one of his former staffers, 444 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't be that it would be that like he was 445 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: white and she was black, Like that would amplify that 446 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: scandal so much more. And they just because the show 447 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: really trucks in kind about post race color blind world, 448 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: the fact that it took that long to be invoked 449 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: and that it hasn't really been brought up again, I 450 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know how progressive that is either. Unfortunately, 451 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: scandal can't be everything for us as we might want 452 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: it to be. Um, well, outside of fictionalized television. How 453 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: do you think celebrity scandal intersects with feminism, particularly sort 454 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: of in this gossip air we find ourselves in where 455 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: so many of our feminist leaning blogs do discuss scandal. Yeah. Well, 456 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, I wrote this article for Bitch Magazine that's 457 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: called Ken's Celebrity Gossip Ever be feminist? And my thesis 458 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: is basically that if you practice academic celebrity gossip, then yes, 459 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: because if you're looking instead of looking at someone who 460 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: you think, Um, I'm trying to think of a good example. 461 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: The example I uses that when Blake light Lay started 462 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 1: dating leonarder DiCaprio, this is several years ago, I was like, uh, 463 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Like I was just really angry 464 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 1: at Played Lively and so instead of like you know, 465 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: slut shaming her or making funt of the fact that 466 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: she has no talent, I sat there and I thought, 467 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: for a second, Okay, why am I reacting this way 468 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: to her dating Leonardo DiCaprio, And I had everything to 469 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: do with how Leonardo DiCaprio resonates with me as someone 470 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: who fell in love with him and Romeo and Juliette 471 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: when I was fifteen years old, right, and how I 472 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: the sort of relationship that I want him to be 473 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: in and the sort of woman that I think deserves 474 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: him that sort of thing. Right, Obviously I don't know 475 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: any I mean, he has clearly betrayed me on that 476 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: over and over and over again. But just basically doing 477 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of analysis of my relationship to his 478 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: star image, I could see why I was reacting and 479 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: get a way to it to another female. So, like, 480 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: I think the blogs that do a lot of just 481 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: like body snarking and that sort of thing. I mean, 482 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: it's not feminist, Like there's no way to there's no 483 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: way to talk about that um with Like, there's no 484 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: way to so what I'm looking for and to defend that. 485 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: But I do think that something like on a lot 486 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: of feminist sites, what they're talking through is basically what 487 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: I do. So what about that star is interesting? What? 488 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: Like why so like when Amy Poehler and Will Arnett 489 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: broke up last year, Like, why is there's such a 490 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: heartfelt reaction to that? So instead of just like I mean, 491 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: I think that oftentimes gossip has democrated this just a 492 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: bunch of women like screaming in a corner or something 493 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: like that. But I think that there's real thoughtful work 494 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: going on about why we love the people we love 495 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: and why we just like people we just like. Yeah, 496 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: and and that very point of gossip, celebrity gossip often 497 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: being pegged as just this frivolous woman thing as any 498 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: kind of like female fandom in a way often is 499 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: like taken down a notch, is just being like too 500 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: girly and who cares? Um. I appreciate the you know, 501 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: the taking the time to actually pause and look into 502 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: it and analyze it. Um. I was actually reading last 503 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: night that You're a hairpin Scandals of Old Hollywood piece 504 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: on Hetty Lamar who. Up until I read that, I 505 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: had just thought of her as this, you know, stem 506 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: heroine who was a really beautiful woman of old Hollywood 507 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: who then invented this thing that basically gave us WiFi 508 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: now and lo and behold, there's this tragic backstory and 509 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: it was all sort of like tied up in sexuality 510 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: and gender and how we perceive we as the public 511 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: perceive and consume women's bodies, and Um, I don't know, 512 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: it was like it was, it was very lightning, and 513 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: I feel like that's we could use more of that, 514 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: I think in celebrity gossip. Yeah. Well, and the other 515 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: thing is that talking about sports players is celebrity gossip. 516 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: You know, like like sports talk is celebrity gossip. It's 517 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: just masculinized. And so I really try to emphasize the 518 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: fact that, you know, this is not something that only 519 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: women do. It's not something that is exclusive to celebrities. 520 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: It's just a type of talk about prominent figures. Well. 521 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: Tying everything back to the book that you're working on, Um, 522 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: do you have a favorite classic Hollywood scandal? I mean, 523 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: I really like the Robert Mitchum scandal because it's because 524 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: it was the first scandal to kind of rupture what 525 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: had been going on, the cover ups that have been 526 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: going on in classic Hollywood. He was on This is 527 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: Again nineteen forty eight. He was half on contracts, he 528 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: had like a contract with a studio, but then also 529 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,239 Speaker 1: kind of was his doing his own thing. And so 530 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: what that made it possible is that he at first 531 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: was like when he got caught was like, screw it, 532 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to jail. My career is over, like very 533 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: frank about it um. And then the studio people got 534 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: to him and he was like, okay, all right, I'll 535 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: try to like basically met good. So while he was 536 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: in jail, he allowed photographers from like magazine to come 537 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: in and take pictures of him. So there's all these 538 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: great photos of him, like sweeping his cell in jail, 539 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: and then he gets out and here permissions like this, 540 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: like he just looks like a dastardly dude, and you know, 541 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: he's just like the eyes and scars and stuff. But 542 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: then he sits for these interviews with like Photoplay and 543 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: a fan magazines where he's like, I just want to 544 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: go fishing with my son's and like, my wife has 545 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: been so supportive. And it was made very clear in 546 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: the five six years afterwards that that was all how 547 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: much of a first that was. But at the time 548 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: it's just so performative what was going on with scandal. 549 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: But I mean, for me, I like all of them. 550 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: I think some people are like, oh, why did you 551 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: write a Scandals of Closet, Polly, what about Robert Redford? 552 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: There was no scandal there I was like, I mean sure, 553 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: every star, though, has a way that they had to 554 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: make their image into something that wasn't scandalous. So anything 555 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: like I cried a column on any star and make 556 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: it interesting. I mean, it's even possible, though these days, 557 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: with as much like exposure as stars get too, to 558 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: closely control their image to the degree that they might want. 559 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: I mean, is scandal avoidable unless you are like legit, 560 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, just on the up and up, always doing 561 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: everything that you should I think. I mean, Angelina Jolie 562 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: should have had at least fifty scandals in the last 563 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: ten years, and she has so definitely played that game 564 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: that I like, I'm just in awe of her. Um, 565 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: she's like the you know, the one that I don't 566 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: have enough distance from. I'm just like, oh, we played 567 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: that so well, amazing. So everything from the way that 568 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: they managed the revelation of her relationship with Bram Pitt 569 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: to the adoption and then giving birth to all of 570 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: these children, and the fact that they're still not married. Um, 571 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: and then recently with basically, you know, with her double 572 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: most sectomy, she that could have been the discussion could 573 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: have been about now she's no longer a sex Salifon right, 574 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: like she's her breast was so fundamental to her sexuality. 575 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: But the way that she got in front of the 576 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: story and wrote this New York Times editorial, like she 577 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: made the story about her sacrifice and her trying to 578 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: be a model for other women. So definitely, And now like, 579 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: if you talk about the loss of her breasts as 580 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: any in any sort of denigrating tone, you're a horrible person. 581 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: And the way that she played that made that possible. 582 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: So yes, I do think that it's possible to play 583 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: the game. Also, I mean, if you don't live in 584 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood or New York, it's super possible. Like Julia Roberts, 585 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: I think just got fed up with everything, moved to 586 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: tags in Mexico and she has so much control over 587 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: her image. Um, well, so when when is the book 588 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: coming out? When can people go pick it up? It's 589 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: coming out at the end of September, and that's from 590 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: Plume Books, which is an imprint and Penguin, And there's 591 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: also there's a pre order right now on Amazon, So 592 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: if you really want to get in line. Um, but 593 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be writing various things in the in 594 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: the mid term. But I'm really excited for it. Yeah, 595 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: how would you form for listeners? How would you describe 596 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: the book? What could they expect from from this? So 597 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: it it's all new content. So there are a couple 598 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: of people featured in it who I wrote previous scandals 599 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: of classic Colly would about, so like Montgomery Clift or 600 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: Dorothy Dandridge, but it's much more expanded and contextualized for 601 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: those people. And then there's a ton of people that 602 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: I've never written anything about on Scandals of Class Hollywood. 603 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: And it starts with Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks, which 604 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: is the Hollywood's first couple who divorced both of their 605 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: spouses so they could be together, and how they managed 606 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: to not make that scandalous. It's just a fascinating story. 607 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: And it goes all the way through James Dean, uh 608 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: and it I think there are sixteen different stars um 609 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: that I cover in each chapter as its own star. 610 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: But you know they're the coupled with other stars who 611 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: were dealing with similar things. So like UM, James Dean, 612 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando, and Montgomery Clift are are all of one 613 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: part because they were all dealing with how to be 614 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: these kind of emotive masculine, but new type of masculine 615 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: stars in Hollywood and men in the early fifties. Well, 616 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: speaking about creating new content for your book, something that 617 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: kind of blew me away and looking over your writing 618 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: is that you do you sleep like you write, so 619 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: you write so much? How do you have time to 620 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: do all this? Uh? Well, I mean the thing that 621 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: is always important to make visible is that I don't 622 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: have children. So I think that a lot of that 623 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: that how much I write is due to the fact that, like, 624 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: I don't have other obligations outside of, um, being a 625 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: writer and being a teacher. But I you know, what 626 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: I always say is that writing is a muscle, and 627 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: the more that you use it, the more in shape 628 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: that it is. So when I'm in good writing shape, 629 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: like I can sit down and just write like all afternoon. Um. 630 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: And then also I really like writing different and different 631 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: tones and for different audiences. So it's really productive for 632 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: me too, instead of just always writing my book or 633 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: always writing my blog post or always writing an academic thing, 634 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 1: to switch it up and and keep nimble in that way. Well, Annie, 635 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: I hope this isn't a weird compliment, But if writing 636 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: is a muscle, you totally have a six pack. That's 637 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: the best compliment I've ever seen. Well, in the meantime, 638 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: where can folks go to find more about you and 639 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: all of your fantastic writing and insights into celebrity gossip 640 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: and more. They can google my blog Celebrity Gossips academic style. 641 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: But also I'm on Twitter. In my handle is a 642 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: Helen so a n N e h e U e 643 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: N and that's basically where you can find all sorts 644 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: of things about me. So thanks again so much to 645 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: Ann Helen Peterson for taking the time to talk to us. 646 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: Also a congratulations to an Annie. She also refers to 647 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: herself because she is now heading out of academia and 648 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: is going to become a full time features writer for 649 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: buzz Feed, So definitely keep an eye out for her articles. 650 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure they will be amazing, as his all of 651 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: her writing. You can follow her at and Helen That's 652 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: Anne with any and check out her work at Anne 653 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: Helen Peterson dot com. And Caroline, you're gonna you're gonna 654 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 1: watch some scandal? You're gonna watch scandal with me? Nope, sorry, no, 655 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: I just not don't do it. Not my thing. I 656 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: will have to continue watching it in guilty isolation. Don't 657 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 1: be guilty. Enjoy it. Yeah, I enjoy it. I do, honestly. 658 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: I tend to watch it in the background while i'm 659 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: meticulously uh stock my dishwasher. It's kind of my weekend thing. 660 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: So with that, we want to hear from you. What 661 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: do you think about celebrity gossip Scandal? Is anybody out 662 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: there watching scandal as well? Please help me not feel 663 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: quite so guilty, mom. Stuff at Discovery dot com is 664 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: where you can email us, and we've got a couple 665 00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: of emails to share with you right now. I've got 666 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: a note here from Christopher about our revenge porn episode 667 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: from a little while back, and he said, hey, guys, 668 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 1: I just wanted to send a quick note. I don't 669 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: know anyone personally who this has happened to, this being 670 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: revenge porn, but I've heard of reports of certain hackers 671 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: slash stalkers who have used software to essentially override a 672 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: user's computer camera to take discrete photos of the user 673 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: without their knowledge. This is actually one of the key 674 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: reasons that the MacBook and I'm at cameras won't operate 675 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: unless that green light next to it goes on. Unfortunately, 676 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: this wasn't incorporated into the iPhone or iPad. I'm not 677 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: doing a value judgment for people who choose to take 678 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: these photos to each their own. I'm just saying it's 679 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: possible to essentially have your life ruined by one of 680 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: these sites without even confiding in a date or a lover. 681 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: So good to be aware of that, too. Creepy, Yes, 682 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: so creepy, So very creepy. So thanks Christopher for giving 683 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: us a heads up on that. I have a areously 684 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: subject lined email here from Kathleen about our Women in 685 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: Cars episode. The subject line, by the way, is I 686 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: am the Caroline of my relationship, to which I say, 687 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: I know, write me too. Uh. She says, I just 688 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: listened to your men and Cars episode and was struck 689 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: by some strange similarities between Caroline and myself. Like Caroline, 690 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: I am the driver in my heterosexual relationship. My partner 691 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: prefers to navigate, which is helpful as I have no 692 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: sense of direction. I am also emphatically not the dishwasher. 693 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: The coincidence does not stop there, however, as I too 694 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 1: drove jeeps before recently switching to a smaller sedan, and 695 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: I too was recently diagnosed with hashimotos, which your podcast 696 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 1: definitely helped me understand, as well as explained others when 697 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: close friends were confused by the vague symptoms, I tried 698 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: to explain. I sent them the link to your podcast. 699 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: Just thought these coincidences were too funny not to relay 700 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: to you both. So thank you, Kathleen. I feel like 701 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: we're like you're like bizarro Elaine to me or something. 702 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, is Kathleen just your your pen name than 703 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm ailing into. I wrote you this email, Kristen because 704 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about myself somewhere alright. So 705 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: thank you for your letter, Kathleen and anyone else who 706 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: wants to send us letters Mom Stuff at Discovery dot 707 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: com is where you can send them, or if you 708 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: want to reach it out to us on social Also 709 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: check out all of our podcast blogs and viggios. There's 710 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: one place to go. It's stuff Mom Never Told You 711 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:36,280 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 712 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 1: Does it How stuff Works dot com