1
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy.

2
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome the Mother Knows Death. On this week's

3
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,159
Speaker 2: External Exam, we will be talking with one of my

4
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:28,639
Speaker 2: best friends. Her name is Christy Salapata Salapata, and we're

5
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 2: just this is how our friend Ken used to say

6
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 2: her last name. He used to call her Salapata and

7
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 2: we missed him. He was an investigator at the medical

8
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 2: Exammer's office while we were in school, and we loved him,

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,879
Speaker 2: and unfortunately he had two heart transplants and ended up

10
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 2: dying before he was forty years old, and it was

11
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 2: really sad.

12
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 3: So, yeah, he was a good dude.

13
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. So. I first met Christy in two

14
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 2: thousand and seven in PA schools, and the reason we're

15
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 2: interviewing her today is because she's a PA like me,

16
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 2: but she specializes in pediatric pathology, which we have to

17
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 2: ask her why because I just don't understand why she's

18
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,600
Speaker 2: interested in it. So we're going to talk about it.

19
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,959
Speaker 2: And let's so let's talk about first when we met

20
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,919
Speaker 2: when we were in PA school two thousand and seven, right, two.

21
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 3: Thousand and seven, we met actually before starting because remember

22
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 3: you reached out to a couple of us and we

23
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 3: wound up going out to what was it lunch or

24
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 3: dinner or something like that. Oh yeah, and that place

25
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 3: is no longer there.

26
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 2: That was Oh yeah, that place was this swing that's right.

27
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

28
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So before we started PA school, our program director

29
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,480
Speaker 2: had sent an email out to us welcoming all the

30
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 2: new kids in the class or the adults I guess

31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 2: you would say, and we all reached out to each

32
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,959
Speaker 2: other so we could meet each other because it's it's

33
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 2: kind of cool when you're starting a program like this

34
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 2: that's so specific and you want to meet everyone that

35
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 2: you're going to school with because you're like, how is

36
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,560
Speaker 2: everybody like into this same zech field as me? So

37
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 2: that really, I would say, like when I met Christy

38
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 2: and the other girls in my class, we were such

39
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,680
Speaker 2: a tight knit group of people, and that's when I

40
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: really like made a best friend for real, Like, and

41
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 2: it wasn't until I was like, what was I twenty

42
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 2: six or twenty seven years old when I started school,

43
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: So but that like we've been kind of inseparable since then.

44
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 3: That's when the love affair began.

45
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,239
Speaker 2: Yes, So let's talk. She she's a little bit of

46
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 2: a wild one, so we're gonna have to real her.

47
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,800
Speaker 2: So one funny story that that I do have is

48
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 2: so when so Christy used to live in the city

49
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 2: and I lived in Jersey. So I would drive over

50
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 2: from Jersey every single day and pick up Christie because

51
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 2: we were rotating in West Philly at similar like different places,

52
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 2: but a lot of the hospitals were in the same area.

53
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 2: And I was at Children's Hospital at the time and

54
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,120
Speaker 2: you were at the m a yes, vice versa. Yeah,

55
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,839
Speaker 2: it was. It was something like that. And so I'm

56
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 2: going to pick up Christy in the morning, and all

57
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,919
Speaker 2: my way to pick her up, I stopped at Wawa

58
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 2: to get coffee, like I did every day, And that

59
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 2: was when I met Gabe, actually, right, So I'd meet

60
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 2: Gabe in wah Wah in the morning and I sat

61
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 2: there and talked to him for like a couple hours

62
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,680
Speaker 2: out front of Wahwah the day I met him, and

63
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 2: I just totally didn't call Christy, didn't tell her, like I.

64
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 3: Wasn't picking up for school. Nothing.

65
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was really it was just really funny.

66
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 2: So like she missed school that day, she just couldn't

67
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: get there, Like it was just all this stuff, and

68
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 2: I called her and it's just like I met the

69
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 2: love of my life. Like, I'm just gonna like you

70
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 2: have to miss school today because I and she she understood,

71
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: you know, that's what a good friend does.

72
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, at first I was upset because my abandonment issues

73
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 3: came up, and then once she told me that, I

74
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, this is way better. I'm like totally acceptable.

75
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was really cool that she's like part

76
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 2: of our story like that. So before we talk about

77
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 2: what you do now is PA, let's talk about what

78
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 2: were you you decided to go to Obviously, so when

79
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,120
Speaker 2: you go to PA school to master's program, so you

80
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,800
Speaker 2: already have to kind of have a college degree before

81
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 2: you even start PA school. So what what did you do?

82
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 2: What did you go to college for? Initially?

83
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,920
Speaker 3: So initially I went for biology, just did a standard

84
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 3: biology degree because you know, in high school, nobody tells you, hey,

85
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 3: with this degree in college, you can do X, Y

86
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,240
Speaker 3: or Z. No offense to guidance counselors back then, but

87
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 3: you were either a doctor or a researcher, and that

88
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 3: was it. So I knew I loved science. I kind

89
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 3: of liked math, but I was like I don't know

90
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 3: what you do with math other than be a math teacher.

91
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 3: You're a teacher, And I was like, now I'm good.

92
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 3: So I wound up deciding biology was the way I

93
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 3: wanted to go because I was interested in like animals,

94
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 3: and I was interested in the human body. And that's

95
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 3: how I wound up with a biodegree.

96
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 2: And what So, how old were you when you graduated,

97
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,599
Speaker 2: like twenty two or you went right from college? Right?

98
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah? Or from first high school? Yeah? For undergrad

99
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,160
Speaker 3: I don't know. That was a long time ago, nineteen

100
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 3: ninety nine. I think I graduated high school.

101
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 2: So when you so, when you graduated from college, were

102
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 2: you able to get a job?

103
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,039
Speaker 3: So well, that's so that's an interesting story and actually

104
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,039
Speaker 3: ropes into like how I wound up here. But so

105
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 3: I was an undergrad. I was like, I don't want

106
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 3: to be a doctor, and I really wasn't into research,

107
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 3: but I found a fascination with genetics, and it was

108
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 3: more so aside from the obvious, you know, learning how

109
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,599
Speaker 3: genetics actually works and plays a role in diversity for

110
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,440
Speaker 3: human the gene pool, I wound up also being intrigued

111
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,599
Speaker 3: by dys morphology, which should have been my first clue

112
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 3: that this was like the calling something abnormal is what

113
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 3: struck my interest versus just the typical day.

114
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's how you started kind of finding out

115
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 2: about pathology and stuff.

116
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 3: Well kind of. But when I was like, hmmm, I'd

117
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 3: say around like third grade age, I was watching PBS

118
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,799
Speaker 3: and there was a doctor once again, a doctor on TV,

119
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,480
Speaker 3: and she was showing slides these pink and purple images,

120
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 3: and I was kind of fascinated by what she was

121
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 3: talking about, and she was a pathologist, and that's when

122
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 3: it all started.

123
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 2: Oh really, that's that's cool that you did, like got

124
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,560
Speaker 2: into that so early because people asked me.

125
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 3: That, Ye when I was like nine or ten. It's

126
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 3: really cool that I was into weird, freakishly weird things

127
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,919
Speaker 3: and diseases. Cool.

128
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,039
Speaker 2: So you're undergrad So once you graduated college and you

129
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,720
Speaker 2: so you started working in a genetics lab, right, So.

130
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 3: No, what happened was I didn't want to do research

131
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 3: I knew I did in undergrad. We did an internship

132
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 3: and it was fun. I worked you know, with like

133
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 3: Western blots and I was working on that and just

134
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 3: wasn't my thing, Like there was too much like it

135
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 3: was too boring for me. No offense to researchers, but

136
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 3: it was just too boring for me. So genetics I

137
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 3: wound up discovering genetic counseling field and that's when I

138
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 3: started to apply to grad school for genetic counseling. And

139
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 3: then on that interview basically said I also have an

140
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 3: interest in forensics, and they were kind of like, well,

141
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 3: do you have any experience in genetic counseling. I said no.

142
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 3: I was like, I just think it's really cool what

143
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 3: they do. So on that interview, needless to say, I

144
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 3: didn't get into that program, but they set me up

145
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 3: with a job my first job out of college, which

146
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 3: was working with genetic counselors, which is where I found

147
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 3: out genetic counseling wasn't for me. It was interesting in

148
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 3: the fact that they were basically offering support to these

149
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 3: families that had new diagnoses in what their kids had

150
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,760
Speaker 3: as far as like a genetic disorder or syndrome. And

151
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 3: then that was like the extent of what I liked.

152
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 3: I wound up going to clinics seeing the patients, finding

153
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 3: out a little bit more about the dys morphologies and

154
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,320
Speaker 3: like what problems arise in the life of these shows Ldren.

155
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 3: But I was creeping up to pathology to go check

156
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 3: out the lab, and I think that's when it was

157
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 3: very clear.

158
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,440
Speaker 2: I was going to say that like the whole time

159
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 2: where you like, I want to see what these genetic

160
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 2: disorders look like. I don't want to read about it,

161
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 2: Like what does this look like? You're saying all these

162
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 2: different things, like remember you had that one song for like,

163
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 2: oh god, it.

164
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 3: Was that for Edwards it was Edwards and Pitaw we

165
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 3: were doing it was like Rocker Bottom feet and then

166
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 3: I can't remember the rest and I've been trying to

167
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 3: remember it.

168
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 2: But that helped us. When we were taking our tests

169
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 2: and stuff, I.

170
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,000
Speaker 3: Was like small jall and I'm like, what else was it?

171
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, that's funny. So so then, so how did

172
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,559
Speaker 2: you find out about our field? Because like this is

173
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 2: kind of there was internet, but it was kind of

174
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't great.

175
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 3: That was the problem at the time. You couldn't find

176
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 3: out about anything other than, like I said, being a doctor,

177
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 3: a nurse, or doing research. So while I was in

178
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,839
Speaker 3: genetics and I saw this, anytime the doctor had something

179
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,720
Speaker 3: that had to go up to pathology, I was like

180
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,080
Speaker 3: volunteering left and right. It was like anything to just

181
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 3: go up there and see what was going on. So

182
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 3: I started thinking, you know what, I need to get

183
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 3: back in a lab setting because it was more of

184
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,720
Speaker 3: like a secretary's type of position I was in. Although

185
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 3: it taught me a lot and exposed to me, exposed

186
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,839
Speaker 3: me to a lot, it definitely wasn't where I wanted

187
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 3: to be. So I wound up going back and working

188
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 3: at my undergrad as their lab assistant, and there I

189
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 3: was doing like setting up chem labs, biolabs, et cetera.

190
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 3: During that time, they must have saw that I was

191
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 3: getting bored and decided to have me teach anatomy lab

192
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,320
Speaker 3: in microbiology lab to the nursing students. Oh that's fun,

193
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,840
Speaker 3: which was a lot of fun. And then met one

194
00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 3: of the professors said to me, you know, I know

195
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 3: you're itching to get out and you're looking for something

196
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 3: to do. But I know this woman who works at

197
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,959
Speaker 3: a hospital and she does adutopsies and she does organism.

198
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 3: He's like, I think that's something you would really like.

199
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 3: Well he said that, and I almost fell on the floor.

200
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 3: I was like, my dream job. Yeah, I just like,

201
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,959
Speaker 3: no one tells you that this field is out there.

202
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 3: So after that I started looking into the field the program.

203
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 3: He told me her title Pathologists Assistant, and I was like,

204
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 3: this is it, this is what I want to do.

205
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 3: I was like, I didn't want to be a pathologist.

206
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 3: They look at slides all day on bored I'm not

207
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,960
Speaker 3: going to enjoy that. I want to get in there, eviscerate,

208
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,959
Speaker 3: to sect and cut shit up.

209
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 2: Exactly that. And that's actually part of the theme of

210
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,200
Speaker 2: my lecture for crime con is just like, because you know,

211
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 2: I always get that question, you know, why don't why

212
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 2: aren't you a doctor? And you're just like, there's a

213
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,480
Speaker 2: little bit more to it than just to just that, right,

214
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 2: So you start PA school and that's how we met.

215
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 2: And another thing I wanted to add is that when

216
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 2: our PA program at Drexel started two years before we did,

217
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 2: so it was we were the third class of a

218
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 2: new program. So when we were looking into the field

219
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 2: of pathology, because I already worked in psychology, so I

220
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 2: knew a little bit about it because we had PA's

221
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 2: working at the hospital, but there was no program for

222
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 2: it in Philly. And then the word started getting out

223
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,839
Speaker 2: around it and we were I believe our program wasn't

224
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 2: even accredited when we started, or or at least when

225
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:23,559
Speaker 2: we signed up.

226
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so it was kind of risky to go.

227
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 2: Into a program that's not accredited because basically they wouldn't

228
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,080
Speaker 2: let we wouldn't be eligible to take the PA exam

229
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 2: if it didn't become accredited. And that's happened before. It

230
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,439
Speaker 2: happened at Hanuman with the with some of the programs

231
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 2: back in the day. So and then we would just

232
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 2: basically pay for that whole college degree and they'd say

233
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,559
Speaker 2: you can't take the test and you'd be screwed. So

234
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 2: so we start PA School and so PA School is

235
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 2: a master's program and it's two years. The first year

236
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: is was the classroom work and that.

237
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,840
Speaker 3: Was just blood, sweat and tears, but it was it.

238
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,719
Speaker 2: Was fun though, Like we got through it and it

239
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 2: was fun. And then the land we we had such

240
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: a good group of God, there was what six of

241
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,439
Speaker 2: us that were just kind of very close in seven

242
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 2: well so yeah, including ourselves, yes, six other people, but yeah,

243
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 2: we and we still we still talk, were actually trying

244
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 2: to get together for like old Lady Reinga at this point. Yeah,

245
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,760
Speaker 2: but so, yeah, we had a good time and everything,

246
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 2: and then the second So the second year we do

247
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 2: our internship, which we just basically have to rotate at

248
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,960
Speaker 2: different hospitals and morgues in order to get the certain

249
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 2: requirements that we need for graduation. So we had to

250
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 2: do autopsy rotation, surgical pathology rotation, forensic rotation, and children's

251
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 2: hospital rotation, and so all of us had to do

252
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 2: just to And it's also good because it kind of

253
00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 2: gives you a feel for like what you would like.

254
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 3: As a PA, right and seversity of this.

255
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some labs that you work in have a

256
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 2: mixture of it, but other ones are, like you could

257
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 2: get a specific autopsy job, a specific children's job, specific

258
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 2: search path job. So when I went to Children's hospital,

259
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 2: I loved the pas there. I had a blast. They

260
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 2: were really really fun, But I hated the pathology part

261
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,959
Speaker 2: of it. I thought it was very tedious and sad,

262
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 2: and just like I just I didn't like it. So

263
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 2: you you went and you loved it, Like what why?

264
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 3: So it's funny because I was thinking about that answer

265
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 3: to that question because I don't necessarily think, like when

266
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 3: I came into the field, I was like, ooh, let

267
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 3: me do pediatrics, this is what I want to do.

268
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 3: And then I think over time just seeing how quote

269
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:58,200
Speaker 3: unquote tedious, how detail oriented, how how much was involved

270
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 3: with a pediatric specimen or even the autopsy. It just

271
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 3: took another level of expertise to be in the field,

272
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 3: and I think that's what drew me to it. First.

273
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 3: I'd like to say, the people that we rotated with

274
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 3: at the pediatric hospital amazing pas, and I think that

275
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 3: also helped with it. Yeah, I mean I.

276
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 2: Could see you would want to work with them because

277
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 2: they were so much fun. But like if they offered

278
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 2: me a job, I'd be like, no, I'm not like, like, yes,

279
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 2: we did an autopsy one time on like a sixteen

280
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 2: week fetus and it was it took from like nine

281
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 2: in the morning until four at night on one fetus.

282
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,480
Speaker 2: But in there now, I always say this though, like

283
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 2: if I ever had a miscarriage, or if I had

284
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 2: a child, God forbid that ever died, there's no other

285
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,080
Speaker 2: people in the world that you want in charge of

286
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 2: them besides a pediatric PA, because because they do put

287
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 2: so much attention and they know how important it is

288
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 2: not only to give you answers as to why your

289
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 2: child died, but also if you're deciding to get pregnant

290
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 2: again or something like that, that they can figure out

291
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 2: if you have some kind of underlying genetic thing that

292
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 2: you're passing on and that this might happen again in

293
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 2: another pregnancy. So your job is super important. And I

294
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,000
Speaker 2: think that a lot of times as pas, we don't

295
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 2: get this like recognition of doing because we don't ever

296
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 2: have family saying like thank you so much and stuff.

297
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 2: You just you have to be a person that's confident

298
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 2: and don't need the recognition all the time, but know

299
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,119
Speaker 2: that you're doing something good.

300
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 3: Right absolutely, And I think that's true, Like you know,

301
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 3: even just trying to even when I teach students right now,

302
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 3: or just thinking about what I do on a day

303
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 3: to day basis, I take for granted how much we

304
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 3: actually know, and I take for granted how much we

305
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 3: actually do because it's just something I do. It's not

306
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 3: something I think about. And like you said, there's no

307
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,120
Speaker 3: recognition really outside of maybe your department, and sometimes depending

308
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 3: where you work, that's not always something you get. You'll

309
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,760
Speaker 3: always get feedback, but yeah, you kind of lose touch

310
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 3: with that. And interestingly enough thinking about it, you know

311
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 3: you go through these autopsies on these children, and it

312
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 3: kind of goes hand in hand in genetic counseling. I

313
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 3: never made the association, but in genetic counseling, that's what

314
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 3: you're doing. You're aiding some kind of guidance and help

315
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,840
Speaker 3: to the family with their new diagnosis of their child.

316
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, if the child passes, you're

317
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 3: now adding that new perspective or giving them some kind

318
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 3: of insight on what happened, which then leads to possible

319
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 3: genetic counseling after the death of their firstborn or one

320
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 3: of their children.

321
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just and you even noticed that with adults

322
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 2: like you, when you explain to families really in depth,

323
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 2: like what happened, it helps bring a such of closer

324
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 2: to these people that at least they could understand what

325
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 2: happened rather than just like not knowing. And even if

326
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 2: you lose a child like that, like imagine having surviving

327
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 2: children and just always being scared that something's going to happen.

328
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 2: And just or sometimes you could have an autopsy on

329
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,239
Speaker 2: a child and then find out that they do have

330
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 2: this underlying health condition that like they could test the

331
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 2: other kids for and prevent it. Maybe, and there's just

332
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 2: a lot that you do that you don't really most

333
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 2: people don't even realize that you have this job, right,

334
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 2: it's just like this hidden thing in the least.

335
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 3: Or if you say, hey, I'm a pathologist assistant, they're like, oh,

336
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 3: in autopsy and that's about as far as it goes

337
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 3: with some people, and they're like, oh, it's just like

338
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 3: on TV. And I'm like, yeah, every day, go high heels,

339
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,640
Speaker 3: make up address, I'm like completely to the nines, ready

340
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 3: to do it, and then covered in blood by the

341
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 3: end of the day. Perfect.

342
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 2: I get that, Okay. So when we graduated, so this

343
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 2: is one of the disadvantages of being a PA because

344
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 2: we were in Philadelphia, and how many of us ended

345
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 2: up graduating eight maybe we ten or yeah, like nine

346
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,640
Speaker 2: sticks enough just from one person a lot just from

347
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 2: one year. And there's definitely not nine PA openings in

348
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia area a year. So what happens is when

349
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 2: we a couple of us already had jobs prior to graduation,

350
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 2: but like you and LP and stuff, that they had

351
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 2: to move after we graduated to get a job, because

352
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 2: you don't want to just wait around and like pray

353
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 2: that something opens. If you know you want to work.

354
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 3: You have student loan debts.

355
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Back in the day, Yeah exactly. So you

356
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 2: moved to Tennessee and you didn't get a job at

357
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 2: a children's hospital, but you did do some children's so yeah.

358
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 3: So when I so initially how I started off with

359
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 3: the whole entire moving out of the area. I lived

360
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,400
Speaker 3: in Philadelphia my entire life, So I was like, all right,

361
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 3: this is a point where I can actually go somewhere,

362
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 3: afford to live somewhere, and start a whole new career,

363
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 3: maybe a whole new life. So I applied out of state, specifically,

364
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 3: I didn't even apply anywhere in Philadelphia, and wound up

365
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 3: in ten See in a number one trauma hospital that

366
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 3: also had a children's hospital attached to it, so I

367
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 3: could get the best of both worlds. Because being a

368
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 3: new graduate, I didn't want to lose anything that I

369
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 3: learned in school. And I feel me personally, I just

370
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 3: feel that when you first come out, that's when your

371
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,719
Speaker 3: knowledge is the strongest, so you want to solidify as

372
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 3: much as you can. And I'm a hands on visual person,

373
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 3: so I wanted to be able to be exposed to

374
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: everything I possibly could and that's how I wound up there.

375
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 3: I taught residents when I was there, which was even better,

376
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 3: which was intimidating at first until I realized how much

377
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 3: I actually knew and how easy it was to do that,

378
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 3: And it just solidified everything from school that was in

379
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,239
Speaker 3: the back of my mind that I never put two

380
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 3: and two because you're just trying to get through the program,

381
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 3: trying to get through your rotations, learn everything you can,

382
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 3: so it really solidified everything for me.

383
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: I find that with pathology residents too, that even though

384
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 2: they're technically doctors, they don't they don't really learn stuff

385
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 2: the way that we learn stuff in path as far

386
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: as pathology, especially like gross findings and what to look

387
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: at like when you're actually that's like my macroscopic like

388
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 2: what things look like with your eyes. They just don't

389
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: really they're not taught that, and they're not taught their

390
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 2: purpose of being right, like you have to prove why

391
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 2: the surgeon took this out kind of thing. So I

392
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 2: think that we offer like a really good role for

393
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 2: them because if they're learning off another pathologist, they're just

394
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,959
Speaker 2: not going to get that.

395
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: I feel like, and I think, like I was just saying,

396
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 3: you know, you're just trying to get through everything. And

397
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 3: like being a pathology resident, you're now specializing pathology, coming

398
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 3: with the background that every other clinician has, So how

399
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 3: do you tailor it down to the specific field that

400
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: you're in, Like how do you actually get that focus?

401
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 3: And I think that's where we come in and we

402
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 3: can offer that to them because we are that focus.

403
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: We're like pigeonholed into that area that that's what we're

404
00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 3: going to do.

405
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that any good pathologists and even

406
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: surgeons when they come down to the lab, they recognize

407
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 2: that we are like the go to person for sure.

408
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,919
Speaker 3: For sure. So I used to actually joke around when

409
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 3: they would come down for frozens and you know, we'd

410
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: have a piece of tissue that was maybe like a

411
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 3: centimeter and they'd give me like a millimeter and say

412
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 3: can you freeze that? And I'm like, I'm good, but

413
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 3: like you're pushing it.

414
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 2: Here, Yeah, exactly. I remember because Andrea, when she's another

415
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 2: one of our friends, as she used to be like

416
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 2: the main frozen pa. It's like the top surgeons at

417
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 2: the hospital would come in and be like, where's Andrea.

418
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: Like they'd have a panic attack. If she was off

419
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 2: you know what I mean true, which was which was

420
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: like really really cool. So so you work at this

421
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 2: hospital in Tennessee, did you see when you were there?

422
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: So since it was in like a trauma center, did

423
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: you see anything like cool while you were working there?

424
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 3: Absolutely? So the one one defining factor that pediatrics we

425
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 3: are all the difference between piatrics an adult. Pediatrics were

426
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 3: one hundred percent on top of things that's a kid.

427
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 3: We were really interested in their health. As adults, we

428
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 3: neglect ourselves, deny things, and kind of just let things

429
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 3: stew and stimmer. And so when it came to cancer

430
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 3: cases there you would get I remember I had like

431
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 3: a lot of genital warts that was like two feet

432
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: long by one foot wide, and I was like what

433
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 3: the I was like, who like a pimple? And I'm

434
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 3: like freaking out, how did this happen? Or you know?

435
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 3: Another one was a melanoma that was solid probably a

436
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 3: good like six inches by six inches and about three

437
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: inches thick on a mon's pubis.

438
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: Like I was like favorite anatomical part.

439
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 3: I could go inside, I could go down the rabbit hole,

440
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 3: but we'll just scarred around it anyway. So you know,

441
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: like seeing this, I'm like, an ingrown hair would freak

442
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: me out. Let alone, this whole hire a huge mass.

443
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: It was just always crazy things that I would see.

444
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: There's always this sense of I think when you work

445
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: in pathology, you don't realize that people. I mean, obviously,

446
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: in America people have access to healthcare, but some of

447
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: them don't have insurance and they're scared of the cost

448
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 2: of it. So that's what's different than other countries that

449
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 2: don't have access to healthcare, because sometimes you could say, oh,

450
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: the closest hospital was six hours away, and they just

451
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: they're poor and they can't do it. But here there's

452
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: a hospital everywhere. The problem is is that you have

453
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: the healthcare issue and then you have just people, which

454
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: I feel like is more common, or just straight up

455
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: like they're in denial and they just they just ignore things.

456
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: And it's really mind blowing some of the stuff that

457
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: you see that you're like, how are people so checked

458
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 2: out that they don't they don't they think this is

459
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: going to go away or or you know, it's it's

460
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,239
Speaker 2: just crazy. So so you're working in Tennessee and then

461
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: a job comes up at the children's hospital, and then

462
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: you decided to kind of leave all that and go

463
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: work in a children's hospital.

464
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: Actually, I was back in the adult world before that.

465
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the other Okay, sorry, while I was

466
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 2: down I can't keep track of your timeline jobs. Okay,

467
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: so you want to, I know, like you wanted to

468
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: come back like your parents essentially.

469
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what wind wound up happening was when I

470
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 3: was down there working on the adult side, things got

471
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 3: a little chaotic. They wound up trying to keep me

472
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: a little bit longer and pushed me off to the

473
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: peed side, which they managed to keep me a little

474
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: bit longer, and I got exposure to more pediatric specimens

475
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 3: being there, and then I wanted to come back in

476
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 3: the area. I was kind of missing home, missing my friends,

477
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: and came back to this area. I worked back in

478
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: the adult side of pathology and loved it once again.

479
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 3: Saw crazy things like pelvic exonerations and you know, you

480
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: have an organ block that somebody had colon cancer, and

481
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you don't only have a colon

482
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 3: because they're like, oh, I couldn't pee a little, and

483
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 3: well here's your colon, here's your bladder, here's your kidney,

484
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 3: and oh, there's your uterus. Cool, Like, how'd that happen?

485
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 2: You know? I actually think that that there I heard

486
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: they're really not doing those anything anymore because they they

487
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 2: found I know, I know, but I've had some too

488
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: in my earlier years, but I think that they found

489
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: that the outcome is no different. So like why put

490
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: someone through all that? Yeah, because one of our friends

491
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: mom had more recently had one for like metastatic melanoma,

492
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: and it's like the the recovery from that, It's like

493
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: if you only are going to have five more months

494
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: to live, Like, why would you ever want to get

495
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: someone through that? Imagine not being able to pee, poop, Yeah,

496
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 2: I mean that would I guess eventually they rework whatever,

497
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: they give you a new bladder, whatever, but it's not

498
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: it's major functions that you have to do multiple times

499
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: a day or a week, and you just it's just

500
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: crazy to even think about healing from that. So, so

501
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: you worked in the adult world and then this job.

502
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: I know that, like you were holding out for this job,

503
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: like you were waiting.

504
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: I was, in a sense, but what actually wound up

505
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, what wound up happening was they had a

506
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: per diem position at a local Children's hospital and I

507
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: was like, I could use the extra money. I can

508
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: use some extra time, I said, and it'll get me

509
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: once again back in the field. So I was like, oh,

510
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 3: I'll call up and see what the perdiem deal is.

511
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: And at that point when I inquired, they said what

512
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: if it were a full time position? And I was like,

513
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: I just I just moved and back and I just

514
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: got this job and they're really happy with me here,

515
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 3: and I'm happy here and now I'm gonna jump ship. Whoops.

516
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: So I wound up considering it and then took the

517
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 3: job and then started another I think I was there

518
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: about four or five years in pedes again and learned

519
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: a lot, know a lot to a fault, and that's

520
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: when I wound up back in peds. After that, went

521
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: back to the adult side for a little bit and

522
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: back in pedes again. So clearly the universe wants me

523
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 3: in pediatric pathology, despite me trying to jump ship every

524
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 3: once in a while. But here I am.

525
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: So it's it is. It is a very different world

526
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: than than regular pathology because it's it's slower, it's a

527
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: lot slower, and it's a lot more tedious. So that

528
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 2: could be good because some days it's just like a

529
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: little bit more not like a high strung kind of environment,

530
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: whereas working in the surgical lab, especially with frozens and stuff,

531
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: could be like a high stress situation. Absolutely, so I

532
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: could see the pros and cons of of wanting those jobs.

533
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: But so I guess, so I have a couple of

534
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: questions as far as pediatric stuff goes, because all the

535
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: hospitals that I've ever worked with, we dealt with miscarriages

536
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: and stuff, and a fetus full the whole entire term

537
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: of a fetus, as well as like infants. But past

538
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: that we've we don't we don't typically do children in

539
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 2: the normal.

540
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: Hospitals or anything. You don't ye like.

541
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: They just exactly like you'll get an appendix and stuff

542
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: from little kids all the time, but when it's something

543
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: like like a cancer especially, it's like they send them all.

544
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: And I guess in our area we have a major

545
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: children's hospital, So like, why you're not why you've not

546
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: messed with that? So what like if you get surgical

547
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: specimens in the children's hospital, Like, what are the most

548
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: common things that you get?

549
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: So some of the most commons that we get, just

550
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: like you would learn in school. The most commons would

551
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 3: be the kidney tumor, which is known as a Wilm's tumor. Okay,

552
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: and then we also get like osteo sarks, which your

553
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: bone resections, which they're kind of my favorite best men

554
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: kind of So.

555
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: Do they take like if where's the most common location

556
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: for osteosarchs.

557
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they're usually in the long bones, and they're

558
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 3: usually at the growth plate down towards like the end.

559
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: So you'll see them in your humorous, which is your

560
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: shoulder or part of your shoulder, your upper arm, and

561
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: then your femur, which is your thigh. You can also

562
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: have them in the ribs, and you can also have

563
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: them in the pelvis, but mainly the long bones are

564
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: where we see them in. I've had a couple in

565
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: the humorous and I've had several in a femur.

566
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,239
Speaker 2: So, if you get an osteosark from a femur, do

567
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: you do they give the kid an amputation or like

568
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: how do you receive that?

569
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: So they try to do if they can, they will

570
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: do a limb sparing, so if it's in the distal portion,

571
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: they'll keep the proximal portion that's where it attaches to

572
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: the pelvis in your hip joint, and so they'll keep

573
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 3: that portion, only take the distal portion, put a prosthetic in.

574
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting.

575
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they can also do it where they spare

576
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: the skin. It just depends on when we found delesion.

577
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: And typically they present as just pain, there's sudden pain,

578
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: they're swelling, some kind of discomfort. Kid goes in has

579
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: some imaging done.

580
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: This is what was my biggest fear when, like I've

581
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: talked to, I did a mystery diagnosis a couple of

582
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: years ago that my youngest was diagnosed with something called

583
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: non infectious osteo chronic non infectious osteomi latest And it

584
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: started off with like the distal femur like knee pain,

585
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: and then we went and got the X ray and

586
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: then they called me and they said you have to

587
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: come back right now, and I automatically was like, oh

588
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: my god, this kid's got cancer in her knee. Like

589
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: I flipped out, And thank god it didn't end up

590
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: being that, but like that location and that presentation is.

591
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 3: Just Yeah, the serious downfall of our field is knowing

592
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: knowing way.

593
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: Too way too much exactly, so so you get these

594
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: specimens that have that have tumor, so sometimes you get

595
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: but like amputations and things like that.

596
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 3: Right, so we'll get like, for instance, with the osteosark,

597
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: we'll get a piece of the femur, or we'll get

598
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: the whole femur, depending what it is. An adult hospital practice,

599
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: what I've come to know is that you wind up

600
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: shaving off all of the soft tissue from the bone,

601
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 3: so there's muscles surrounding the bone that you'll get their skin,

602
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: So you shave all of that, have to keep orientation

603
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: in case they have to go back if there's a

604
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: positive margin, et cetera, and then put it all back

605
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: together and make it make sense in your gross in

606
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: your pictures, et cetera. Whereas at least the children's hospitals

607
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: I've worked at, we wind up actually taking the specimen

608
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: soft tissue and bone, freezing it all together while it's fresh,

609
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: then fixing it. So let me go back a little

610
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: bit after it's fresh. We wind up cutting it completely

611
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: frozen in a saw, which gives us beautiful sections that

612
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 3: show the actual relationship between the soft tissue and the bone.

613
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: Use like a band saw, like a band saw, just

614
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: like a butcher does.

615
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's interesting. Too, because a lot of people

616
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: don't realize that we have to not only like be

617
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: experts in all this kind of stuff, but have to

618
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: use power tools.

619
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: Wood shop would have came in handy along the wall.

620
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that the oscillating saw is a little

621
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: bit less scary. That's the kind of saw they would

622
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: use to cut off a kid's cast or something. So

623
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: if you're using it, it hits your hand or your

624
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: your soft tissue, like it's more of like a friction burn,

625
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: but it won't like cut your finger off, whereas like

626
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: a bandsaw could cut your finger off. It's a real

627
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: it's a really sharp saw, and obviously if it could

628
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: cut bone and soft tissue that's frozen.

629
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these are huge. You're talking about a band

630
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: saw being about I guess it's like two feet of

631
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: reciprocating blade or actually Yeah, And one of the institutions

632
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: I worked at we cut ephemeral head, which is a

633
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: whole whopping like three inches in diameter. Yeah, and it

634
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: would have to go through this machine and there you're

635
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you're holding it with tools and gripping it on for

636
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: dear life as you're trying not to cut yourself or

637
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: have what I had, in one instance have the femeral

638
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: head go and hit oh my god, hit the wall

639
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 3: behind me and give me a heart attack. And you know,

640
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: it's a lot.

641
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: So we had this one at one of the hospitals

642
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: I worked at, because we got a lot of these

643
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: like jaw re sections. It was the kind of I

644
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: don't even think it was made for human tissue. It

645
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: was like a tile cutting saw. It was like a

646
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: very little bandsaw that had like water dripping off of it.

647
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: It was crazy, but because we had like little tiny

648
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: jaws to stick through, I know what I mean. But

649
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: so okay, So you also get like, are these are

650
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: children's hospitals considered like trauma units too, or like how

651
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: would that work?

652
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: There are? But I you know, for us, for trauma,

653
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: it's usually same thing. Even when I was at the

654
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: other place that was a number one trauma, it's usually

655
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: some kind of lawnmower accident or fingers got crushed by

656
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: you know, a hammer or something. Kids being kids. To say,

657
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: I hate to say that sometimes, but that's usually what

658
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: it is. It's not so much as what you would

659
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: have in an adult hospital.

660
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: And what about like do you get foreign bodies and

661
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: stuff from kids, and.

662
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: Like we do. It's usually those little round magnetic balls.

663
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: Do not buy them for any of your kids. Yeah,

664
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: they always seem to come down and we get like

665
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: a chain of like twelve of them, and it's like cool.

666
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: Really dangerous. Like we did a high profile death this

667
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: section for toys at Christmas time, and that was one

668
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: of them that kept coming up in the literature too. Yeah,

669
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: because they like make the segments of bowls stick together,

670
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

671
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: And they look like those little what were they those

672
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: little candies that were round balls that were like filled

673
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 3: with chocolate with the stickles or yeah, that's what they

674
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: look like. So if I was a kid, I'd be like,

675
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 3: oh cool, let me eat one and not think anything

676
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 3: of it until I'm like having poop and problems and

677
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I'm like not feeling good parent nightmare.

678
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: That batteries, the little watch batteries are the little you.

679
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: Know there are bad because kid e roade and they

680
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: could cause like perforations and stuff. Oh my god, yeah

681
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: we we. I think that actually when I was writing

682
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: that up this Christmas that there was this band on them.

683
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: For a while, they weren't allowed to be sold and

684
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: now they're like on Amazon again again. Yeah, and parents

685
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: just don't. It's another one that's dangerous is those orby beads.

686
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: You know what they are. They're like these little plastic

687
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: beads and when you put them in water, they like

688
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: swell up. So they're like the kids, Yeah, they liked it.

689
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: It's like this sensory right, but like, which is fine

690
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: for my age kids, but little kids if they eat

691
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: the balls when they're little, they like expand in their

692
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 2: gi track and cause obstruction. Yeah, and there's a kid

693
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: that actually died from it. And it said that the

694
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: mom had bought them at Target and there wasn't a warning.

695
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: There was a warning label that said that there was

696
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: a choking risk, but it didn't say there was a

697
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: risk for ingestion and obstruction. And she's trying to like

698
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: say something about that, which I don't know personally, like

699
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: the kid was not, Like, I'm like, you shouldn't have

700
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: had it near your nine month old kid, I don't care.

701
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: Float some blueberries and water and do their sensory activity

702
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 3: with peas or something exactly.

703
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by my book Nicole

704
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: and Jemmy's Anatomy Do you have my book yet. If not,

705
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: you better get it because it's really awesome. It is

706
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: an A through Z journey of the human body and

707
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 2: everything that could go wrong with it. Get it now

708
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: at thedorramodern dot com slash book So when you get

709
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: autopsies now. So one of the cool things that I

710
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: didn't realize being in the children's hospital was that you said,

711
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: from time to time you do autopsies on adults. Can

712
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: you explain, like why you would ever do that?

713
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: So sometimes we have cases where clearly not every disease

714
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 3: is curable. We're still working towards cures. We're doing research,

715
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: which is another aspect of the job. But you have

716
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 3: these patients who could be eighteen twenty five still with

717
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: either residual tumor or still struggling even with a late diagnosis. Actually,

718
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 3: there was a case that we had a late diagnosis.

719
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: By the time they found out this patient had the diagnosis,

720
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 3: they did the patient, it was a male that died

721
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: maybe a couple days after that. And so sometimes it's

722
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: a late diagnosis of a quote unquote childhood tumor that

723
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 3: you wouldn't normally see in an adult hospital. So we

724
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 3: might have a reference from an outside hospital to take

725
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: this patient on, although they might be in their twenties.

726
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: You also have I had a case where eighteen years

727
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: old had one of the forms of cancer I can't

728
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: remember which it was, signed his autopsy consent to donate

729
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: his tissue for research because he had a significant size tumor.

730
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: And I think at that point, whatever the staging was,

731
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 3: he knew he wasn't gonna last very long. And that

732
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 3: was that was an overwhelming, like humbling experience right there,

733
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 3: because I couldn't imagine being in a position to sign

734
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: my own autopsy consent and being eighteen doing that.

735
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, it's it's so cool that people that

736
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: are like that enlightened and mature correct to think, because

737
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: that is the only way for us to you know.

738
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: It's more so I feel those so sent the dead

739
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: teach the living. It's just like the only way to

740
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: really do that. And like, even talking recently about OJ

741
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: dying right and him not like it's just so fucking selfish, right,

742
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: Like I'm just like this guy who there's all this

743
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: suspicion that he might have like CTE from all the

744
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: trauma of playing football all those years, that that could

745
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: have maybe contributed to him snapping and doing what he

746
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: did and stuff like you would think, okay, well, like

747
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: I'll donate my brain to science just to see because

748
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 2: that would even help like future football players and stuff.

749
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: It's just like, why, you're just gonna incinerate it and

750
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: be buried and it doesn't help anybody. But I love

751
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: hearing stories like that of people that are just like listed,

752
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: my time on Earth is gone, and people do it

753
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: with their families. So me and Crisper are like really

754
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: huge proponents of the organ donation. Sure, so so getting

755
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: to that, like you said that, that was like a

756
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: humbling experience for you. Do you feel like sadness towards

757
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: some of your cases?

758
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 3: For sure? When I first got back into pediatrics, there

759
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: was I think a thirteen year old who was having

760
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 3: a work up on he was having some kind of

761
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: neurological dysfunction and they were working on it, working on it,

762
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: and unfortunately they didn't find out what happened before he expired.

763
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: And that was one of the first case I had,

764
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: and I read just like, I can't imagine one being

765
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 3: the parent in that position that you know something's wrong

766
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 3: with your child. The clinicians are trying really hard to

767
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 3: figure out what's going on, and you're almost there, you're

768
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: working towards it, and then all of a sudden they

769
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: just die and there's no longer that opportunity there. So

770
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: I can't imagine it from that aspect. And then standing

771
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 3: there and you're like, wow, this thirteen year old, how

772
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 3: many people has this kids touched their lives? You know, encountered,

773
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 3: he's made friends in school, he's you know, adult family,

774
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 3: his peer group. Gone. Yeah, like there one day, gone

775
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: the next, no warning. Yeah.

776
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: I hear about that sometimes with kids, just on the

777
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: news that we cover all the time about kids that

778
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: get hit by a car or just anything, and then

779
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: they'll say, like they'll just put this brief thing out

780
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: like oh, there's grief counseling at the school, and you're

781
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, that's it's so hard, especially for children

782
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: to like grasp that and just being a parent, like

783
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: I can't even like wrap my head around them. Like

784
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: it's just and it's weird. Like I feel like I

785
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: feel like when I do an autopsy on like a fetus,

786
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: I do. I do feel bad for the parents, but

787
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: I try not to like sit there and want to cry.

788
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: Because like I want to get the job done and stuff.

789
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: But I definitely have had times, especially rotating at the

790
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: Children's Hospital, that I like, even how long ago did

791
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: we graduate thirteen years ago or whatever? Like long ago exactly?

792
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: I just like, no, it's been longer than that we graduated. Jesus,

793
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: I just gave up.

794
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: Good thing.

795
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: You weren't a math man. But anyway, right, I'm like,

796
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: is aren't we encroaching like fifteen years So anyway, regardless,

797
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: I just totally forgot what I was talking about.

798
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: But still the whole patient interaction, yeah, everything and the

799
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: human aspect of it. So basically you're focusing on a

800
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 3: task getting it done.

801
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but oh, that's what I was going to say. So,

802
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: so Children's Hospital, like I remember the kids that I

803
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: autopsy still, like, I'll just never like the big kids,

804
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: like the teenagers and stuff and the eight year olds

805
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: and stuff like, because because they have parents. They all

806
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 2: have parents, and you just can't help but think that.

807
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, well, And that's another There's been a couple

808
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: of times that I, you know, first off, when we

809
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: do our job, we need to be informed. We're not

810
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 3: clinicians on the floor with them. We don't get the

811
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: interaction that nurses do with the patient, but we still

812
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: have to go back to the chart review it, figure

813
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: out what's important and what we have to focus on

814
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 3: for the autopsy and for the case. So reading the

815
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 3: chart you get into very like personal notes from like

816
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: social work and everything. And then it really brings the

817
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 3: human element in which not that I want to think

818
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: about it focus on it because I have a job

819
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 3: to but it definitely makes you step back for a

820
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: minute and makes you really like think, wow, this is terrible,

821
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: and then once again you have to pick yourself back

822
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: up and get to your purpose.

823
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: I'm even like that with the Saint Jude commercials, like

824
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: I can't. I just can't watch them. I just I'm like,

825
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: take all my money. I get what you're doing, Like

826
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: just like I'll write you a check. I just can't.

827
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: Like it's it's so heartbreaking, like it'll be a parent

828
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: just saying because you know, my kids, my my younger kid. Anyway,

829
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: Lil Lucia still believes in Santa claus Es. Like it's like,

830
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 2: how do you talk to a child about something so

831
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: heavy like cancer or any kind of like a like

832
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: life ending situation.

833
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: It's just.

834
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: Like I just it just breaks my heart so much

835
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 2: to even think about it that it's just better to

836
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: like be disconnected a little bit.

837
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely. So that's that's the one thing I don't really

838
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 3: love about the job is having to actually dive deep

839
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: in the chart. But you know, after the fact, when

840
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 3: you I had a case, actually they did I think

841
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: she the patient was I think she had a brain

842
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: tumor and wound up donating her brain to research. So

843
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 3: here I did this case. Then on the weekend there

844
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 3: was like some kind of fundraising walk for the research

845
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 3: for brain tumors, and I wound up meeting this person,

846
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: this patient's parents at the walk, and I was like,

847
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 3: this is this is a little much like you don't

848
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 3: know what to say, And then how do you walk

849
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 3: up to them and say, Hi, I did your daughter's autopsy,

850
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 3: Like you just don't like you're just kind of exactly.

851
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 2: Oh hi, Hi Wait. We literally Annette and I literally

852
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: had the same exact thing happen. We were working in

853
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: the lab and we get this frozen section on it.

854
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: Odd but a colon tumor, which is not normally something.

855
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: So a frozen section is when they send a specimen

856
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: down while the patient's still open on the table and

857
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: we have to examine it. And usually that's only done

858
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: in the case where like the surgeon needs to know

859
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: right away what something is in order to direct the

860
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: course of his surgery or his or her surgery. But

861
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: in this case, they sent it down to us because

862
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: it was so weird. It was a nineteen year old,

863
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: and they sent it down to us because they were

864
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: removing this colon because this girl, this nineteen year old,

865
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: had an obstruction, and they just couldn't believe it because

866
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: on imaging it looked like it was cancer. So they

867
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: sent it down to us and said open it up

868
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: and just look at it. And then so we cut

869
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 2: it and just by looking at it on frozen section,

870
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 2: it was like already perforated through the wall. It was bad.

871
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: It was like at least the stage three at that point,

872
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: right nineteen. And we were like so upset and and

873
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: I so we go downstairs to the coffee shop at

874
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 2: lunch time and we hear this mom on the phone

875
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: like behind us, like talking about, oh, she's in surgery

876
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: right now, it's probably nothing like and I was like,

877
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: oh my god, Like it was it was just so

878
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: like you just wanted to throw up, you know, because

879
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is this poor lady is having like

880
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 2: this last moment of not finding out how bad this

881
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 2: can be. And of course the disadvantage to our job

882
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: is like we we have no idea what happened to

883
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 2: that girl, like did she live?

884
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: Did she die?

885
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 2: Like we don't. We hear nothing else. That's the end

886
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: of the story.

887
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: And then on the flip side of it, for me,

888
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 3: it's always, you know, I always stand there and my

889
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 3: face I can't hold anything. My mouth will hold it back.

890
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: My face says everything that my mouth will not. And

891
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 3: you know, I had a one of my mom's friends.

892
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: My mom calls me and she's like she got diagnosed

893
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: with stage four inflammatory breast cancer. And I was like,

894
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: oh God, like this woman's gonna die. That was like

895
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: my first reaction to it. And I stood there and

896
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: I was like.

897
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 2: I see you're good because I just like when my

898
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 2: mom was like, oh, Nanny, hows this is my grandmom

899
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 2: has gallbladder cancer. I was just like, you ver prepare

900
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: she's going to die from this. And my mom was

901
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: like no, like they told us that there, and I

902
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 2: was like, Mom, like I just can't keep my mouth shut.

903
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 2: Like I just can't.

904
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 3: Like I was like, just tell her to spend a

905
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: lot of time with their kids and her husband. It's

906
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 3: really important.

907
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I know, I know, I just I

908
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: feel so terrible, but I don't like and this this

909
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 2: is like a good reminder with my grandmom and stuff.

910
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: It's like she got diagnosed with with gallbladder cancer and

911
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: that was that was whatever. But when they went in

912
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 2: to do the gallbladder resection to take out the around

913
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: her liver where the tumor was still at, and they

914
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: opened her up and saw it was seated in her

915
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 2: peritoneal cavity, I was just like, why are they even

916
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: giving any one hope that she's going to survive this?

917
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: Like biliary cancers are nasty as it is stage four

918
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: and and like they were though when my aunts were

919
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 2: going and my mom were going to the appointments with

920
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 2: with my grandmom, they were like, well, we'll give her chemo,

921
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: and like they they were giving them hope for And

922
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: I was trying to be realistic with my mom and

923
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 2: saying like, don't have hope here, Like she'll live another

924
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: couple of months maybe, but like this is going to

925
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: be the end for you know, and I don't. I

926
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: didn't think that was cool, honestly, no, but maybe it

927
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: feels better for the patients that don't know anything, right,

928
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 2: I don't.

929
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: Well, And I think that's another aspect of it, like

930
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 3: you want to give them hope because you want them

931
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 3: to actually fight or enjoy what's left. But at the

932
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: same time, it's kind of like I want to be

933
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 3: honest with you the truth. Yes, I hate that position.

934
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, don't ask me if you have anything.

935
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 3: Exactly, if anything's wrong with you. I don't know. I'm

936
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: an idiots asking on college exactly, phone in college. It's

937
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: not us. We're going to tell you the dark side

938
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: of the story.

939
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 2: Right. So when you so you have autopsies on kids,

940
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 2: like what is there like a most you know how

941
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: with adults it's like heart disease is a big wan

942
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: obesity related things like.

943
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: Usually like lifestyle with adults, I feel.

944
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, like what is it with kids? Like genetic things?

945
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 3: So for sure it's genetics that's a component anomaies, malformations,

946
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 3: anything that's once again dysmorphic syndromes can have a boatload

947
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 3: going on with them. Most commonly we wind up seeing

948
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: heart defects, the general heart defects which go into the

949
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 3: syndromes as well. Also, we've had cases where they're just

950
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 3: not compatible with life because of a genetic disorder, genetic syndrome.

951
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen conjoined twins?

952
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: So I had a case. It was a fetus and

953
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: it was an aborted fetus where they shared basically the

954
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 3: same Torso had two sets of arms, two sets of legs,

955
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 3: and we're joining. I think it was torso brain, so

956
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 3: I guess the spinal cord and brain. They shared two

957
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:04,479
Speaker 3: faces and the body was like shared. Oh wow, that's yeah,

958
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: it's super It was probably.

959
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: How many weeks was to say it was maybe twelve?

960
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 3: Maybe it was. It was yeah, an itty bitty that's interesting.

961
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 3: It was super cool to be able to experience that

962
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: because it's not something that you see often, let alone

963
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: have an autopsy on.

964
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 2: I know it's like and it's like, I always get

965
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: shipped for saying that things are cool. It's like, obviously

966
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: it's not cool for this interest, but from a from

967
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: a pathologic perspective, it's cool for us in the lab

968
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: to see special weeks. We just talked about in the

969
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: news recently. Laurie and George Chappelle. You know the twins

970
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: twins from reading. Yeah, they just passed away. They were

971
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: sixty to the oldest living twins. And then we were

972
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 2: talking about Abigail and Brittany, the younger twins, because one

973
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: of them just got married. So we were talking about like,

974
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 2: well how does that work? Like really interesting? Right? Stop?

975
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 2: Have you have you ever seen citis and versus? I

976
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: don't know if I've ever asked you that. I think

977
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: that so I think when we were in school, like

978
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 2: one of the students rotating there solid.

979
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 3: Possibly, I don't remember. I don't think.

980
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: I like, it's like all my bucket list, but I

981
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: just think I'll never see it.

982
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: There's some things that I just don't remember. And that's

983
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: probably I know.

984
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: That's so. Citis and versus is when all the organs

985
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 2: are flipped, like mirror flipped, so like your heart would

986
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: be on the different side than than it is normally in.

987
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: Your liver as opposed to the rights to the left,

988
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 3: and you know there's mal rotation and all this other craziness.

989
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's just crazy. Like you could say,

990
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: throughout your career, even if you've done hundreds of autopsies.

991
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 2: It's just like sometimes you just see like like one

992
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: time I found a horseshoe kidney, like once, you know,

993
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 2: like just one time. You see I've seen I found

994
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: mechels actually twice, but like just different things like that

995
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: or that's another like fun yeah, right, that you would

996
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: get that. I love those. I love like congenital anomalies

997
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: that are like not really like life threats. Well I

998
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: guess that could be life threatening, but not like not really.

999
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1000
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: Like I just wrote a case for the Gross Room

1001
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: about a baby that was born with a tail, so

1002
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 2: it's pretty Yeah, I'll send it to you.

1003
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1004
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 2: I always like we always like talk about this stuff.

1005
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: This is what we do. Like she'll come over and

1006
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 2: we talk about men shopping and men shopping.

1007
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 3: Fetal anomalies, the Coffee Show.

1008
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: So so this is interesting when you were talking about

1009
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: like lifestyle changes, because I think in adult pathology, like

1010
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 2: most so many of the cases, it's like related to smoking,

1011
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 2: related to drinking, alcohol, related to obesity, just all these things,

1012
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: even work exposures, just like all these things that people

1013
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 2: are environmental or just bring on, even viral things like

1014
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 2: HPV or hepatitis C. So with little kids. I guess

1015
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: you don't really see that kind of stuff. Right.

1016
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 3: We may see like as far as like infection goes sepsis,

1017
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: if there's some kind of issue that happens there, but

1018
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 3: usually it's not lifestyle changes that are in our demographic,

1019
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 3: at least the demographic I've been exposed to. Yeah, I

1020
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: don't want to say that it doesn't happen in other

1021
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: children's hospitals, but with us, it's usually there's some kind

1022
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 3: of tumor or congenital heart disease.

1023
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a lot a fair number of miscarriages

1024
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: from parents and placentas in the hospital from people that

1025
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 2: were using drugs, but nothing really specific that sticks out

1026
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 2: to me that you could say, oh, yeah, that person

1027
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: was on math and that's why this baby was like

1028
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: this or whatever.

1029
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 3: Right, there's definitely changes within the placenta or even sometimes

1030
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: some of the heart defects come from drug use. Yeah,

1031
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 3: that's so, you know, that's one aspect of it. But

1032
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 3: it's not like I'm sitting there and saying, Okay, this

1033
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: this patient has an ASD or a VSD, which is

1034
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 3: basically a hole in the upper or lower portion of

1035
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 3: the heart. Oh, somebody must have used drugs, Like, there's

1036
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 3: a million reasons why that could have happened. Exactly necessarily

1037
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: always jumped to lifestyle, although it could be Yeah that's'

1038
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 3: and I think there actually was somebody that I think

1039
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 3: they're I don't even know how we came to figure

1040
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: that out, but I think they had high levels of

1041
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 3: THHC or something to that effect, and I think we

1042
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 3: might have actually ran something.

1043
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: It does nothing bad to you, Okay, just stick with

1044
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: stick with the story, stick with the script.

1045
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 3: It's all about cancer.

1046
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: Lifestyle is wonderful, Yeah, exactly, all right, So so this

1047
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: is this is this is really interesting to me actually

1048
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: because so working in surgical pathology, I started whatever it

1049
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: was fifteen twenty.

1050
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: Years ago whatever. I noticed that there was a change

1051
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: in some specimens we were getting, and then there was

1052
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: a there. You know, you're working there for five years

1053
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you start getting like

1054
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: sleeve gastrectomies, and then you would get one a week,

1055
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 2: and then it turned into five a day. Yeah. Right,

1056
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 2: do you have any kind of specimens like that that like,

1057
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: now that you've been working in the field so long,

1058
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: you're seeing like this is a more popular surgery versus so.

1059
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 3: Definitely a lot of sleeve gas directomies have been happening,

1060
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 3: and I'd say in the last like year or two

1061
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 3: they've picked up.

1062
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: So a sleeve gas tractomy is when they reduce the

1063
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: size of the stomach for it to try to I

1064
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: guess it would be for childhood obesity. How, I mean,

1065
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: what age are you getting these things?

1066
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 3: Usually teens as where yeah, somewhere in the teenage. And

1067
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 3: same thing for the other specimen that we wind up

1068
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 3: getting or usually breast reductions. Oh really yeah, And I

1069
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: don't know if it's just because of our demographic.

1070
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because I always say, like, as much

1071
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: as I don't like children's hospitals, that the best part

1072
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: would be that you don't get breast because I hate breast.

1073
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: I just hate them as.

1074
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 3: Breast for tumors a whole other story.

1075
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1076
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the reductions are easier, I mean, but you still

1077
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: have to look at them in case, absolutely.

1078
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 3: Just in case, because you know, there's like a fiber autonoma.

1079
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 3: It could be it's benign, but just.

1080
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: In case, yeah, exactly. You can't just like throw that

1081
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 2: in the trash like you would have pass or something

1082
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: like that. So what what are some of the differences. Like,

1083
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: so when we do an autopsy, it will take like

1084
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: I mean, you could get it done in like an

1085
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: hour or two really fast. So why why does an

1086
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: autopsy on a fetus take eight hours?

1087
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: So well, let's start with so for a fetus, so

1088
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 3: there's perinatal, right, which is the fetus, which is before

1089
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 3: birth they die or surrounding birth they die, and that's

1090
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 3: usually the one that takes forever. Like you mentioned, what

1091
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: was it a sixteen week er? It was an all

1092
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 3: day affair.

1093
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: Facing Remember you guys used to have that laptop that

1094
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: like was like, okay, look, probe the bio duct, then

1095
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: move on, and then we.

1096
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: Had the whole entire like yeah, we had the whole

1097
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 3: template and like exactly what.

1098
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: The bile duct in an adult is so small in

1099
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: a fetus, It's like what did you have to use,

1100
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: like it like a sewing pin to probe it?

1101
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: Like I can't. And that's like that's ultimately what it

1102
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 3: comes down to. You're dealing with a body that's you know,

1103
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 3: three inches long, and so the cavity is only maybe

1104
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 3: like two inches and you're like, okay, where do I start?

1105
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 3: And then sometimes there's findings that they have questioned. The

1106
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 3: clinicians have questions about and you're like, uh, what the

1107
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 3: ultrasound or something, and I'm confirming what, Like, how can

1108
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 3: I even possibly you know, there's grain of salt is

1109
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 3: what I'm looking for. And it gets a little bit

1110
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 3: tough at that point. But then we have like a

1111
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 3: dissecting scope and then an enlarged image on a screen,

1112
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: and then that's a whole other ballpark, because how in

1113
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 3: the heck to you sit there under a microscope do

1114
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 3: an autopsy, watch a screen and make it all happen

1115
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 3: where you don't ruin anything before you can actually confirm

1116
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 3: or deny that something was or wasn't there. So starting there,

1117
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 3: it's one. They're small, so we have to slow down

1118
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: a little bit because trying to make that happen is

1119
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 3: difficult technically difficult. Then you also run into they might

1120
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 3: have had imaging, and we want to prove that the

1121
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,959
Speaker 3: imaging was correct. We also will find things that necessarily

1122
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 3: weren't found on imaging in the autopsy, so we have

1123
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: to slow down. Knowing normal is where we start. Knowing

1124
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: abnormal is where we specialize. So you have congenital anomalies

1125
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 3: malformations like I was talking about the congenital heart defects.

1126
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 3: You wind up opening a heart in an adult you're

1127
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: looking for an infarct.

1128
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not going to find a hole in a

1129
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: heart in a sixty year old person. Right. The general

1130
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: consensus is like, if you live to be old like you,

1131
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 2: you don't have any generator correct or anything that really

1132
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: killed you like that.

1133
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: And if you have one, it's so small it never

1134
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 3: affected you ye the way it would if it were

1135
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,919
Speaker 3: a large t effects. So you wind up like having

1136
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: to slow down, having to look at what should be

1137
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: there compared to what isn't there, And there is variability

1138
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 3: in what should be there, which is a whole other

1139
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 3: other thing. So you really have to slow down and

1140
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 3: just take a minute and go system by system and

1141
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: orientation and anatomy at its finest, like you wind up

1142
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 3: being more specialized in it because now you're looking for

1143
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 3: things that like you were saying, if you're an adult,

1144
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: you're sixty, you've lived your life. Nobody's really concerned if

1145
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 3: you had a small hole in your heart that you

1146
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 3: lived with. But when you're a fetus and you're syndromic, well,

1147
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 3: this is a clue as to why this fetus died.

1148
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 3: This is a clue to what we're now counseling these

1149
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 3: parents towards, like for future pregnancies. So you basically slow

1150
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 3: down plush. You might get a placenta with a perinatal autopsy,

1151
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: then you have to do the whole entire examination of

1152
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 3: that and it's very important which you always don't get

1153
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 3: the placenta, do they do.

1154
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 2: People deliver at the children's hospital?

1155
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 3: So yes, So for high risk case, that's when we

1156
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 3: have a delivery at the hospital. And I believe both

1157
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 3: institutions that I've worked for do have a labor and

1158
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: delivery unit. So these high risk case they pair with

1159
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 3: an adult hospital, they come in deliver the baby. Babies

1160
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 3: delivered at the children's hospital then sent to the oors

1161
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 3: to have whatever surgery something you know the asd VSD

1162
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 3: repair or even something like a correctation of the order

1163
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: where it's a narrowing of that lumen. They'll take out

1164
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 3: that little snippet, put a little patch in this way

1165
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 3: it's a normal flow of blood.

1166
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: Would they send that snippet to you guys to get.

1167
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 3: So we get them and they're just basically a little

1168
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 3: piece of vestil a one cassette. Easy, just confirm, Hey,

1169
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 3: this lumin is narrow, it's smaller than where what started.

1170
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: You know, there's a spot that goes to like maybe

1171
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: pinpoint or like a zero point one centimeter and then

1172
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 3: the rest of it's like zero point five. So clearly,

1173
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 3: like when you have blood flow, that's going to be

1174
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 3: a problem, just like it would be with a funnel, Like, yeah,

1175
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 3: it'll going to slow down.

1176
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 2: Right, that's interesting. All right, So I'm glad that we

1177
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: could talk to Crisper about this pediatric pathology because I

1178
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 2: talk a lot about surgical pathology and autopsy, but like

1179
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 2: I just tend to keep my head.

1180
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: I can have a mini series on pediatric Yeah exactly.

1181
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: But regardless of like all this stuff that we can

1182
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: do at our job, I feel like one of the

1183
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 2: things that we talk about all the time is the

1184
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 2: limitations of being a PA. So when we go to

1185
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 2: school to be a pathologists assistant, it's kind of like

1186
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 2: you can get a job in the lab or you

1187
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: can get a job in the morgue. But like that's

1188
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: kind of it, right, there's no other thing, which for

1189
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: us it's fine because we love pathology and like whatever

1190
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: I'll be fine with that, but some people sorry, yeah exactly.

1191
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 2: But it's like some people go all the way through

1192
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: school and then they say like, oh, I would I

1193
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: would like to work in dermatology, and then you're like, oh, well,

1194
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: guess what, Like your degree means nothing and you need

1195
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: to go back to school to do this. And so

1196
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 2: the reason that I'm bringing this up is like, do

1197
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 2: you do you ever find yourself like you think that

1198
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 2: you're going to do this the rest of your life.

1199
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: I mean I know that you're like approaching retirement like now,

1200
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 2: It's like, no, it's so crazy because I remember we

1201
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: were taught like when we when even ten years ago,

1202
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 2: like I would be talking a Gabe about like, oh,

1203
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: retiring or whatever, and now I'm like, oh my god,

1204
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: he's eligible to retire this year. It's just completely crazy.

1205
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: And I mean we're just getting older, not that that's

1206
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: going to happen anytime soon, but like for the next

1207
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 2: twenty years, are you do you yourself doing this or would.

1208
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 3: You like one hundred percent? To be honest, like, this

1209
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 3: was something I think I was even asked early on

1210
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 3: or maybe even just talking to one of the students.

1211
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 3: It was it's for me one hundred percent. This is

1212
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 3: what I've always wanted to do. I absolutely love the field.

1213
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 3: If I didn't need to rely on money to survive

1214
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 3: in this lovely world, I would do it for free,

1215
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 3: Like I would hands down go in and enjoy my

1216
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 3: life doing.

1217
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: This like maybe just not every day, just maybe not every.

1218
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 3: Day, making make it like a little bit of a

1219
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 3: per diem or like a weekend gig. But for for

1220
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 3: sure I joke about, like, you know, being eighty and

1221
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 3: doing an autopsy and pretty much suspend me from the

1222
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 3: ceiling and just let me do my business.

1223
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 2: You know.

1224
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: Here, I got to go to the gym, keep my

1225
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 3: mobility up so I can at eighty not have to

1226
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: worry about retiring when I can't.

1227
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 4: Afford anything, Yeah, exactly, and living off of so sah,

1228
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 4: I can't imagine you like doing anything else, honestly, And

1229
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 4: that that's like not one bit.

1230
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 2: She She's a typical all we all are like this,

1231
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 2: this like anti a little bit anti social, like fit

1232
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 2: in the world just fine, but like they're good at

1233
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 2: our craft kind of thing. Well, thanks so much for

1234
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: being here today. This was very good. It was it

1235
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 2: was good for me to hear all this stuff. Because

1236
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 2: I certainly stay away from pediatrics as much as I can.

1237
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 2: I think I think a big bit reason is because

1238
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm a mom and I have little kids. I just

1239
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 2: out of slight, out of mine kind of thing. But

1240
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: it's great that there's people like you that that do

1241
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: this and don't cry over your workstation and just like

1242
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: get it done. So thanks for being here.

1243
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: I cry in private.

1244
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: I'm glad you guys get got to meet one of

1245
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: my best friends. She's here all the time and we're

1246
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: hanging out and.

1247
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,439
Speaker 3: It's been great talking smack yep.

1248
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death.

1249
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.

1250
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 2: I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy

1251
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I

1252
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 2: have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

1253
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 2: the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,

1254
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform

1255
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 2: people based on my experience working in pathology, so they

1256
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 2: can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.

1257
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 2: Always remember that science is changing every day, and the

1258
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 2: opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge

1259
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 2: of those subjects at the time of publication. If you

1260
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or

1261
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit

1262
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 2: an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,

1263
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple Spot, Stify, YouTube,

1264
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks