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Speaker 1: The Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight. Here at

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Speaker 1: the Volume, Happy Thursday, everybody. Round two coverage of the

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Speaker 1: NBA Playoffs. Here at Hoops Tonight is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Chase Freedom Unlimited. How do you cash back? Well?

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Speaker 1: In our latest case of deja vu, the Nuggets beat

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Speaker 1: the shit out of the Phoenix Suns in Phoenix, and

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Speaker 1: to be honest, if campaign doesn't hit five threes in

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Speaker 1: the first half, it might have been even worse than that.

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Speaker 1: And the Sons are going home. Devin Booker and Kevin

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Speaker 1: Durant both started the game ice cold, and that game

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Speaker 1: was over at halftime. What I'd like to do today

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Speaker 1: is talk a little bit about the Nuggets looking forward

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Speaker 1: and there are chances to win the NBA Championship, and

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Speaker 1: then do a little bit of an obituary on the

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns. And I'm gonna defend Kevin Durant because I

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Speaker 1: know that dude is just going to go through the

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Speaker 1: ringer and the media tomorrow and I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: necessarily fair. You guys know the Joe before we get started.

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Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss

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Speaker 1: any more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Underscore Jason lt. So you guys don't miss any show announcements,

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Speaker 1: and if for whatever reason, you guys miss one of

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Speaker 1: these shows and you can't get back over to YouTube

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Speaker 1: to finish, don't forget. You can find them wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Under Hoops tonight. All right, let's talks

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Speaker 1: some basketball. So the Nuggets and I've been talking about

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Speaker 1: this for a while, but after two rounds of the

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Speaker 1: NBA Playoffs, I think they've legitimized some things. They check

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Speaker 1: a lot of boxes that I look for in a

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Speaker 1: championship contender. So first of all, a bona fide superstar

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Speaker 1: that can consistently and effectively and efficiently generate shots for

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Speaker 1: himself and his teammates in a physical playoff environment. That's

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Speaker 1: Nikola Jokic, and he's in the top tier of those guys.

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Speaker 1: What specifically makes Jokic such an effective player at this

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Speaker 1: level is as the games get more and more physical,

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Speaker 1: he actually rises to the top of the pile in

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Speaker 1: those environments and he can efficiently score close to the

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Speaker 1: basket in a way that's replicable from game to game.

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Speaker 1: Why does that matter? As we go back through NBA history,

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Speaker 1: we look at last year with Steph Curry, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of the outlier. He's the best perimeter player of all time,

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Speaker 1: the best shooter of all time. He's kind of the

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Speaker 1: exception that proves the rule. But he can thrive by

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Speaker 1: scoring from the perimeter in late playoff rounds. But most

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Speaker 1: players like that tend to fade as they get deeper

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Speaker 1: into the postseason. But we go back the year before

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Speaker 1: that and it's Giannison Tennekumpo, just a paint monster. Go

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Speaker 1: before that, it's Lebron James Finals MVP, a paint monster.

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Speaker 1: It just a ridiculous efficiency in the paint in that

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Speaker 1: postseason run. The year before that, Kawhi Leonard the biggest

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Speaker 1: and strongest pull up shooting forward that we have in

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Speaker 1: the league. So he just gets to pull up jump

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Speaker 1: shots that are easier and closer to the rim, and

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Speaker 1: he plays with strength, right, And then if we go

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Speaker 1: through two years before that, it's Kevin Durant who's seven

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Speaker 1: feet tall, and you get to great looks inside the

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Speaker 1: then we go back and it's Lebron, and then we

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Speaker 1: go back and it's Steph again. And then we go

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Speaker 1: back and it's Kawhi Leonard. You guys get the point.

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Speaker 1: There's a specific type of player that thrives at this level,

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Speaker 1: and the only perimeter oriented guys that thrive are the

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Speaker 1: all time greats, right, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, two guys

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Speaker 1: that I think are top ten perimeter players of all time.

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Speaker 1: So they checked that bonafide superstar box resoundingly well with

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Speaker 1: Nikola Jokic. Then you need a secondary star that compliments

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Speaker 1: your main star. Well, Jamal Murray, we had some question

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Speaker 1: marks surrounding him towards the end of the year. He's

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Speaker 1: dealing with some new discomfort, was kind of inconsistent well,

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Speaker 1: twenty six, five and seven, obviously not counting tonight's game.

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Speaker 1: On fifty seven percent true shooting in the postseason so far,

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Speaker 1: that's excellent. That's all star level production. And he compliments

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Speaker 1: Nickola Jokicz perfectly. Now what does that mean? So, for instance,

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Speaker 1: you put Russell Westbrook with Lebron James. He can't do

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Speaker 1: anything without the ball, so you need to put him

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Speaker 1: on the ball. But he's not very efficient on the ball.

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Speaker 1: So there's like all these clunky basketball fits, right, Lebron James,

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Speaker 1: Dwayne Wade, some similar type of issues there. You need

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Speaker 1: to be an off ball player to succeed next to

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Speaker 1: Lebron James. That's why Anthony Davis has worked so well

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Speaker 1: because he can run, screen and roll with Lebron. Right,

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Speaker 1: That's why Kyrie Irving works so well because he could

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Speaker 1: just come into your possessions by himself. What makes the

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Speaker 1: Murray Jokic partnership work so well is all their actions

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Speaker 1: they run are symbiotic. Nikola Jokicic is an amazing role

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Speaker 1: man and a great a great dribble handoff guy. And

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Speaker 1: Jamal Murray is your textbook movement pull up shooter guard

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Speaker 1: that can also attack the rim. And so he's the

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Speaker 1: perfect complimentary basketball fit alongside Nikola Jokic. And most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love it when I see superstars that

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Speaker 1: are great at the thing the other is bad at. So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, Lebron James with Anthony Davis, Anthony Davis is

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Speaker 1: the defensive monster to cover for the older Lebron that

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Speaker 1: tends to float in and out of games defensively. Right,

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Speaker 1: we look at Steph Curry and Draymond Green. It's the

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Speaker 1: defensive monster that's a great, you know, facilitator on offense

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Speaker 1: next to this offensive minded superstar that can be an

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Speaker 1: average to a slightly above average defensive player. Right, So

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Speaker 1: it's a couple of Min's Perfect Lebron James Kyrie Irving.

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Speaker 1: Lebron at that phase in his career would get fatigued

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Speaker 1: over the course of games, and so he needed someone

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Speaker 1: to help him with shot making at the end, and

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Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving was able to be that guy. Well. The

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Speaker 1: one thing that Nikola Jokic can struggle with sometimes is

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Speaker 1: longer distance shot making, right when the paint is really

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Speaker 1: packed and he needs to go to an eighteen foot

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Speaker 1: you know, type of move. He can make those shots,

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Speaker 1: but it's not his specialty, right, And that's where Jamal

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Speaker 1: Murray can kind of bring something that he doesn't have.

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Speaker 1: So they have the bona fide superstar and the complimentary

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Speaker 1: second star perfect. From there, you need to have off

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Speaker 1: ball threats. Michael Porter Junior was one of the very

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Speaker 1: best spot up players in the league this year. I've

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Speaker 1: said this on the show several times, but KCP is

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite two guards that covered him with

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Speaker 1: the Lakers for a long time. Great defensive player, a

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Speaker 1: guy that thrives in the playoffs and just knows how

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Speaker 1: to run the floor in transition, hit movement threes. It

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Speaker 1: can do that dribble handoff stuff. He's a great spot

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Speaker 1: up player, competes on the defensive end, and he's a

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Speaker 1: great crackdown rebounder. Is an excellent two guard in the league.

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Speaker 1: That's a good off ball threat. Aaron Gordon is the

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Speaker 1: worst shooter in their starting lineup, and he's shooting thirty

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Speaker 1: nine percent from three in this postseason run, obviously not

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Speaker 1: counting tonight's game. And he's an excellent cutter alongside Nikola Jokic.

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Speaker 1: So they've got all of the off ball threats that

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Speaker 1: you need to allow Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic to

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Speaker 1: operate in space. Then you need a versatile defensive forward

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Speaker 1: that you can throw at Star wings. Aaron Gordon just

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Speaker 1: did as good of a job as you can possibly

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Speaker 1: do against Kevin Durant. And here's the best thing. Kevin

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Speaker 1: Durant could not be more different than Lebron James. But

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Speaker 1: if Lebron James and the Lakers win tomorrow night, and

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Speaker 1: you have to have somebody to guard Lebron for seven games,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Gordon is an excellent option to throw at Lebron

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Speaker 1: specifically at this phase in Lebron's career where he relies

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Speaker 1: so much on bully ball, that's a matchup that favors

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Speaker 1: Denver pretty well. Right, you need an elite defensive guard

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Speaker 1: that you can throw at tough guard assignments like Devin Booker. Right,

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Speaker 1: the Nuggets have two of those guys. Contavi's Callbo Pope.

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Speaker 1: We talked about him. He's a little better in lockin

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Speaker 1: trail situation than Iso, but he can thrive in isolation

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Speaker 1: situations as well. And then Bruce Brown is an excellent

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Speaker 1: point of attack defender that applies a ton of ball

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Speaker 1: pressure and navigates screens well. They check all those boxes

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Speaker 1: extremely well. Really, the only weakness on this roster is

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Speaker 1: that they don't have real rim protection. Nikola Jokic has

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Speaker 1: had the worst defensive rating on the team in this

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Speaker 1: postseason run. They've been bringing him out of his drop

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Speaker 1: obviously to deal with KD and Devin Booker. Phoenix is

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Speaker 1: a bad example of a team that can challenge him

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Speaker 1: because they don't attack the paint very well. But you

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Speaker 1: saw Anthony Edwards have some success getting downhill on him

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Speaker 1: and in the next round. They're definitely gonna have some challenges,

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Speaker 1: especially if the Lakers advanced, because most teams like to

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Speaker 1: switch the Lebron James Anthony Davis pick and roll, and

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Speaker 1: the Grizzlies were able to because of Dylan Brooks and

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Speaker 1: Jaron Jackson. They were comfortable having either of those guys

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Speaker 1: on Lebron or AD. You know, Draymond Green and Andrew Wiggins.

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Speaker 1: You're comfortable with having either of those guys on Lebron

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Speaker 1: and AD, so they could switch the Lebron James Anthony

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Speaker 1: Davis pick and roll. You don't want to switch Nikola

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Speaker 1: Jokic onto Lebron. So there's going to be a drop

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Speaker 1: coverage there that will allow the Lakers to run Lebron

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Speaker 1: James Anthony Davis pick and roll. So they will be

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Speaker 1: challenged as they go further along, and that is their

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Speaker 1: one big weakness. But no team in this field is perfect,

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Speaker 1: and so in my opinion, they check. Because they check

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Speaker 1: every single other box, they have as good a chance

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Speaker 1: to win as anybody else does. So shout out to

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Speaker 1: the Denver Nuggets. I'm gonna wait until after the second

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Speaker 1: round series are all over before I rank my contenders again,

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Speaker 1: but they have as good a chance as anybody right now,

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Speaker 1: all right, moving on to the Suns, there is going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of talk tomorrow that's negative towards

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Speaker 1: Kevin Durant. This is now the second consecutive postseason run

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Speaker 1: that he's leaving early. He's won six combined postseason games

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Speaker 1: in the last two years. So on the surface, it

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Speaker 1: has a bad look, right, but the reality is is,

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Speaker 1: as you look at last year, they ran into the

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Speaker 1: best team in the Eastern Conference, in the Boston Celtics,

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Speaker 1: and every one of those games was close. They just

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Speaker 1: won all four of them. And then this particular series

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Speaker 1: again as like even with Chris Paul and Deandrayton, they

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Speaker 1: were at a talent disadvantage, but especially in this particular game,

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Speaker 1: like look down the roster, You've got Jacques Landale, Campaign,

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Speaker 1: Landry sham At, Tory Craig, TJ Warren, Bismack Biambo, Terrence Ross.

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Speaker 1: None of those guys are starter level NBA players. Like

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Speaker 1: Denver has five legit starters, Golden State has six legit starters.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got Steph Clay, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Looney,

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Speaker 1: Jordan Poole's a legit starting level guard in this league

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Speaker 1: is struggling in this series, but the Lakers are an

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Speaker 1: incredible defensive team. The Lakers have seven legit starters, like

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Speaker 1: you've got D'Angel Russell, Austin Reeves, you've got a Jared Vanderbilt,

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Speaker 1: Lebron James, Anthony Davis. But then you've got Ruy Hatchimura

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Speaker 1: and Dennis Schroeder, guys who both would would start for

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Speaker 1: a lot of the teams around the league, certainly better

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Speaker 1: than any of those Suns players I just mentioned. And

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Speaker 1: both of you, like, it's just again, basketball is a

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Speaker 1: team sport. I know that's the boring answer. I know

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Speaker 1: it's easy to bill a series as, Oh, it's Lebron

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Speaker 1: James versus Steph Curry, or oh it's Kevin Durant versus

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Speaker 1: Nikola Jokicz, but it's never actually like that. And way

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Speaker 1: too many times in NBA history we've seen teams struggle

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Speaker 1: because of poor role players or lack of complimentary role players.

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Speaker 1: The Golden State Warriors, obviously without Clay, but with Steph

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Speaker 1: Curry and Draymond Green, really struggled in that twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: one season throughout the entire season and lost in the

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Speaker 1: playing round. In large part because their role players just

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Speaker 1: weren't even complimentary. Right, Then they swap out all those

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Speaker 1: role players for like more savvy vets that thrive in

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Speaker 1: their system. Get rid of guys like Kelly u Bray

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Speaker 1: and Camp Bazemore, bringing guys like Otto Porter Junior right,

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Speaker 1: and Gary Payton second, Nimnya bi Elitza. Suddenly the whole

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Speaker 1: thing works right. Like basketball, I always talk about this,

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Speaker 1: it's not just five on five. It's like a living organism.

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Speaker 1: Every single team has a bunch of different elements that

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Speaker 1: have to fit together perfectly for it all to work.

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Speaker 1: And like we just seen too many examples of this

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Speaker 1: in NBA history. Lebron James and Anthony Davis are nine

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Speaker 1: wins away from an NBA championship. They will be favored

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Speaker 1: at home tomorrow to beat the Warriors. They're in great

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Speaker 1: shape to potentially win the title. They were dogshit for

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Speaker 1: a year and a half because of a lack of

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Speaker 1: complimentary role players. You flip Russell Westbrook for another skill

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Speaker 1: guard that can thrive off ball and run some pick

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Speaker 1: and roll with Anthony Davis, a forward that you can

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Speaker 1: deploy on other teams perimeter players. Get Russell Westbrook out

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Speaker 1: who's a poor fit, right, Ruby Hatchamura a different type

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Speaker 1: of skill forward that they can use that helps them

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Speaker 1: on the glass. Suddenly they go from being dog shit

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Speaker 1: to being one of the best teams in the NBA

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Speaker 1: with a legitimate chance to win a title. Did Lebron

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Speaker 1: James and Anthony Davis get better or did the team

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Speaker 1: around them get better? Like, again, there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot of people throwing dirt on Kevin Durant's grave tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: But like, Kevin Durant is playing basketball at as high

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Speaker 1: a level as he ever has. Yeahs, pull up jump

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Speaker 1: shooting has failed him in back to back postseasons, But

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Speaker 1: a big part of that is the amount of defensive

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Speaker 1: attention he's facing because he's playing alongside below average NBA

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Speaker 1: bench players. And So what I said before the playoff run,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna stand by it, is we can evaluate

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Speaker 1: this whole thing going on here with the Phoenix Suns

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Speaker 1: after they have another summer to appropriately surround Kevin Durant

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Speaker 1: and Devin Booker with complimentary pieces. And again, like they're

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Speaker 1: going to be able to because of the attention that

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Speaker 1: Booker and KD. Garner, because Phoenix is a city that's

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Speaker 1: desirable to a lot of people, warm Weather City. Right,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons why teams players are

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Speaker 1: gonna want to consider the Phoenix Suns. And there are

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of guys that could make ten

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Speaker 1: to fifteen million elsewhere who will take a mid level

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Speaker 1: exception to play for the Suns. And there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of guys who could take a mid level exception

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Speaker 1: elsewhere that will take a veteran minie contract to play

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Speaker 1: for the Suns. They are going to be able to

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Speaker 1: be big time competitors in the free agent market. I

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Speaker 1: think they need to find athletes that like to play

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Speaker 1: hard on every single possession. I mean to compliment what

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Speaker 1: you have, which is two incredibly skilled offensive players. I

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Speaker 1: think that this Suns team needs to become an elite

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Speaker 1: defensive team. And the main reason why I say that

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Speaker 1: is because their offense will come and go. When you

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Speaker 1: rely on pull up jump shooting the way that Devin

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Speaker 1: Booker and Kevin Durant do. There's a lot more variants

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Speaker 1: in their game, and when you have variants, you need

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Speaker 1: to be a great defensive team. It's kind of the

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Speaker 1: same way I feel about the Lakers. The Lakers can

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Speaker 1: go ice cold offensively for long stretches, but their defense

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Speaker 1: keeps them in the game long enough. You have to

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Speaker 1: be an outstanding defensive team if you do not have

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Speaker 1: reliable at the rim scoring the way teams like the

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Speaker 1: Nuggets and Nikola Jokic do, right, And so that's where

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Speaker 1: it brings me to Chris Paul and DeAndre and so

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Speaker 1: Chris Paul and I'm not one hundred percent familiar with

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Speaker 1: all of their cap dynamics, but I'm pretty sure Chris

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Speaker 1: Paul's contract next year non guaranteed, so they can either

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Speaker 1: get rid of him through some sort of waiver mechanism,

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Speaker 1: or they can guarantee his contract and include him in

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Speaker 1: trade as a filler. We'll see what they end up

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Speaker 1: deciding to do there. But here's the thing with DeAndre Ayton, Like,

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Speaker 1: and I mean Deandreton told us, he told us in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. They were like, hey, what's your what would

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Speaker 1: you consider to be success in the NBA? And he said,

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Speaker 1: making it to my second contract. As talented as he is,

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Speaker 1: that dude just doesn't have fire inside. And that's why

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Speaker 1: he's not consistently engaged physically on a night in a

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Speaker 1: night out basis that's a really bad or dangerous trait

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Speaker 1: to have alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, who are

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Speaker 1: more offensively minded stars, even though they did compete defensively

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Speaker 1: for stretches in this series. And so I think you

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Speaker 1: got to look at potentially moving Deandreton. There's gonna be

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Speaker 1: some more someone out there that could use him, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I was just trying to come up with one random example,

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Speaker 1: and this might be a bad example, but what if

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Speaker 1: you call up the Hawks and you're like, hey, I

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Speaker 1: want give me, you know, Clint Capella and Sadik Bay

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Speaker 1: for eight, and maybe you can get the Hawks to

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Speaker 1: bite on something like that because they want a better

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Speaker 1: offensive role man to run alongside Trey Young and Dejante Murray.

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Speaker 1: But the idea is, if you can flip eight and

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Speaker 1: a legit NBA starter into two legit NBA starters, and

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Speaker 1: then you can either flip Chris Paul into one or

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Speaker 1: two legit NBA starters, or if you can't, you can

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Speaker 1: wave him. And then if you can somehow in the

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Speaker 1: mid level exception veteran minimum market get a legit NBA

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Speaker 1: starter level player, if you can get three legit NBA

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Speaker 1: level starters alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. You have

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Speaker 1: a real chance to win the championship next year. And

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Speaker 1: so again, what I said before the playoffs was not

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Speaker 1: judging the Suns until next year. I'm standing by that.

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Speaker 1: Don't get swept up in all the narrative based stuff

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Speaker 1: on TV tomorrow. Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, we're operating

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Speaker 1: with significantly less talent. I picked the Nuggets and seven

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Speaker 1: sheerly out of respect for what Kevin Durant and Booker

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Speaker 1: are capable of, and I'm glad I did because those

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Speaker 1: two guys put on straight up heroic performances in Game

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Speaker 1: three and Game four to extend this series to six

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Speaker 1: the way they did. But they've got some work to

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Speaker 1: do this summer to surround those guys with real athletes.

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Speaker 1: All right, guys, that is all I have for tonight.

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Speaker 1: We will be back tomorrow evening. I have a special

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Speaker 1: I've already recorded a little Game six preview on Lakers

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Speaker 1: Warriors that'll be up in the morning, and then tomorrow evening.

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Speaker 1: I will see you guys after a couple of a

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Speaker 1: couple more Game sixes. The volume