Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Changing San Francisco and this is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up. In the next hour, President Biden
Speaker 1: arrives in Brussels ahead of a meeting with allies on
Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine, including a NATO summit. We will
Speaker 1: break down what to expect from this trip to Europe,
Speaker 1: plus new details on the hacking group behind the Octa breach,
Speaker 1: why they've been called laughably bad even as they've managed
Speaker 1: to infiltrate so many large scale tech companies, and Madernat
Speaker 1: says it's COVID vaccine produced a strong immune response in
Speaker 1: kids under age six, but it's only honestly effective against omocron.
Speaker 1: WHA on that. Later this hour, President Biden now in Brussels,
Speaker 1: set to meet with European leaders and attend an emergency
Speaker 1: NATO summit, the goal to show that the world is
Speaker 1: united against Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Bloomberg's political news director
Speaker 1: Jody Schneider with US Now, Jody, what are we expecting
Speaker 1: from this trip? What does President Biden want to convey Yeah, Emily.
Speaker 1: He wants. There's several main messages to look for from
Speaker 1: President Biden now that he's in Brussels. One will be
Speaker 1: unity that NATO and UH and the European allies and
Speaker 1: the US and the UK are united in their denunciation
Speaker 1: of Vladimir Putin and his invasion of Ukraine, and that
Speaker 1: they are doing what they can to try to stop
Speaker 1: it from going any further and to stop him UH
Speaker 1: from from uh you know, anything any gains he can
Speaker 1: make there, and to punish him for this. UH. Biden
Speaker 1: also wants to show solidarity with the European countries that
Speaker 1: are taking in so far millions of refugees from Ukraine.
Speaker 1: More than three point three million UH Ukrainians have left
Speaker 1: their country for neighboring countries. More than ten million have
Speaker 1: left their homes. Obviously some sting in Ukraine, but they
Speaker 1: have they have had to leave their homes and their communities.
Speaker 1: And so President Biden wants to make that clear UH
Speaker 1: that the US supports and and empathizes with this what
Speaker 1: will be a growing refugee crisis. Certainly, he wants to
Speaker 1: make the case for more sanctions. The US has had
Speaker 1: the toughest sanctions on oil because the US frankly imports
Speaker 1: the least amount of crude oil and petroleum products from Russia.
Speaker 1: European countries in a much more different situation, but the
Speaker 1: US wants to push them to do more on sanctions.
Speaker 1: So those will be the three messages you can look
Speaker 1: for from the US president. Well, and how could we
Speaker 1: see the US step up sanctions and put pressure on
Speaker 1: Europe to step up sanctions. Yeah, so the US has already,
Speaker 1: you know, gone a long way towards sanctioning both uh,
Speaker 1: the oligarchs in Russia, and UH done things like you know,
Speaker 1: banned the import of Russian oil, Russian crude oil to
Speaker 1: the US. However, they're taking more steps and UH, the
Speaker 1: National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said today the President Biden
Speaker 1: tomorrow at that summit and on Friday, will be announcing
Speaker 1: even more sanctions against oligarchs, against individuals as well as
Speaker 1: companies and other entities. So the US is trying to
Speaker 1: double down even more on those sanctions, even as Vladimir
Speaker 1: Putin continues to criticize them. And we will be seeing more.
Speaker 1: I think we will be seeing at least more verbal
Speaker 1: um accusations made against Russia. President Biden before he got
Speaker 1: on the plane, when he was talking to reporters before
Speaker 1: he got on Air Force one or earlier today, said
Speaker 1: that he would not be prize. The Ladimir Protin was
Speaker 1: to use chemical weapons in Ukraine. So there will be
Speaker 1: a lot of warnings as well as talk about sections.
Speaker 1: All right, Bloomberg's Jody Schneider, thank you for that. Update
Speaker 1: will continue to follow the president's trip in Europe. Meantime,
Speaker 1: insta Cart is launching a platform of services to sell
Speaker 1: to supermarkets, including fifteen minute delivery for grocery retailers and
Speaker 1: building warehouses to store products and manage picking, packing and
Speaker 1: delivery for supermarkets, a move that cements the company's turn
Speaker 1: into enterprise services. Under new CEO FJ Cmo, Insta Cart
Speaker 1: has been making multiple moves to strengthen the company's relationship
Speaker 1: with grocers as opposed to just consumers. Coming up, they
Speaker 1: claimed to have hacked some of the biggest names in tech.
Speaker 1: We've got the latest on Lapses and how they've managed
Speaker 1: to preach so many large scale tech companies despite being
Speaker 1: described as laughable. That is next. This is Bloomberg the
Speaker 1: latest now on the evolving Opta breach the identity management
Speaker 1: company that many businesses use as a top line of
Speaker 1: cyber defense. The group behind the breach calls itself Lapsis,
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg reports it has a murky background. For more,
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Bloomberg's Jack Gillum, who reports on cybersecurity
Speaker 1: for US. So Jack talked to us about what we've
Speaker 1: learned about LOPSIS in the last twenty four hours. We've
Speaker 1: heard laughable, We've heard the word murky. Who are they? So?
Speaker 1: This is a group Emily that has sort of breached,
Speaker 1: has risen up in the last year or two, according
Speaker 1: to certain experts that we've spoken with. Um, they've made
Speaker 1: bigger splashes in the last few months. They operate on
Speaker 1: Telegram channels, which we might use to communicate with folks,
Speaker 1: but they used it to actually, uh, you know, brag
Speaker 1: about what they've been able to hack. Um. They're kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting group. Normally, when we think of these groups,
Speaker 1: we think of folks ransomware actors who take our data
Speaker 1: and encrypted and will offer to unlock it for us
Speaker 1: if we give them, you know, some sort of money
Speaker 1: in exchange. UM. These folks instead will just release the data. UM.
Speaker 1: Now you know, we've talked about them being sort of
Speaker 1: laughably bad. That was one expert we we spoke to
Speaker 1: who studies this kind of stuff. Um, but you know,
Speaker 1: just like a broken clock is right twice a day.
Speaker 1: I mean, even idiots, he said, can do really bad things. Uh.
Speaker 1: In this case, they apparently had released the source code,
Speaker 1: some source code of being, which is Microsoft's signature search engine,
Speaker 1: their mapping platform, their voice recognition software. Um. So you know,
Speaker 1: even if there are they might be you know, kids,
Speaker 1: they might be amateurs, they might not be nation state hackers.
Speaker 1: You know, given the right tools and opportunities, that could
Speaker 1: be pretty dangerous. Right. So they've hit Microsoft, as you say,
Speaker 1: they've been targeting Crypto, and of course this Octa breach.
Speaker 1: Let's dig in to what exactly happened with Octa because
Speaker 1: Octa says the company itself was not breach, but due
Speaker 1: to a breach of a third party, three sixty six
Speaker 1: Octa customers were compromised. How serious is this and what
Speaker 1: does that actually mean? So to start from the beginning,
Speaker 1: Octa is what's called an identity management platform. That's just
Speaker 1: a fancy way of having a central place where you
Speaker 1: can log in, you know, putting your user name and password.
Speaker 1: We all do it for our jobs. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: where you just have to put in your credentials. Your
Speaker 1: two factor authentication wants to get access to all sorts
Speaker 1: of things. So that essentially is like a mainline uh,
Speaker 1: you know, authentication to get into say a company web portal,
Speaker 1: um to get into a software developers back in you
Speaker 1: name it. Now, you know, it's only as the company says,
Speaker 1: two point five percent, but that's still hundreds of companies,
Speaker 1: you know, as you mentioned three hundred and sixty six.
Speaker 1: And while we need to be careful here and appreciate
Speaker 1: that this investigation is ongoing, you know, the details are
Speaker 1: slowly coming out and we're understanding them. You know, at
Speaker 1: worst case scenario here, these attackers could get access to
Speaker 1: these victims networks. So even though OCTA may in and
Speaker 1: of itself not have been breached, if these attackers were
Speaker 1: able to get sort of get into that authentication stream,
Speaker 1: you know, be able to get into uh one of
Speaker 1: their client's networks, they could pull out all sorts of data.
Speaker 1: And we don't know the extent of that yet, but
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be the big question as
Speaker 1: we go forward here so it does sound pretty serious. Indeed,
Speaker 1: and just to underscore this, you said LAPSES is not
Speaker 1: a nation state tied hacking group. Does that mean this
Speaker 1: has no relation to potential Russian cyber attacks or the
Speaker 1: chaos going on in cyberspace right now as a result
Speaker 1: of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It might not be emily.
Speaker 1: But we also need to realize, and this is to
Speaker 1: follow up on the you know, very not specific, but
Speaker 1: very repeated warnings by the US government and others that
Speaker 1: you know, Russia is looking for opportunities, they say, to
Speaker 1: access major companies and their networks in order to bring
Speaker 1: them down, especially critical utilities. We saw and new Burger Um,
Speaker 1: the senior US official in charge of cyber Um, who
Speaker 1: made a very public plea about companies updating their security.
Speaker 1: Adding this what's called two factor authentication. So you might
Speaker 1: have a group of you know, a loose group of
Speaker 1: folks who are trying to infiltrate companies and steal their data.
Speaker 1: But these two things aren't mutually exclusive. You still have
Speaker 1: what the government is calling this persistent threat of Russian
Speaker 1: nation states um and that companies need to do more
Speaker 1: in order to improve their security and keep themselves and
Speaker 1: their customers safe, all right, Bloomberg, Jack Gill and thanks
Speaker 1: for the additional details there. I do want to continue
Speaker 1: this conversation on cybersecurity and bringing Karen Martin. He is
Speaker 1: the former CEO of the UK's National Cybersecurity Center. He
Speaker 1: is also the managing director at Paladin Capital Scarin. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. You know, so far
Speaker 1: it seems we have seen a dearth of cyber attacks
Speaker 1: from Russian would be attacker since the war has started,
Speaker 1: would you agree and why is that? Well, thank you
Speaker 1: Emily for having me on. I think saying as a
Speaker 1: dearth of attacks might be taking it a little bit farther.
Speaker 1: Have been some quite important hacks. There was the hack
Speaker 1: of the VIAS satellite network, which according to the Ukrainian
Speaker 1: Cybersecurity Agency, caused some quite serious disruption to communications. But
Speaker 1: that's the sort of thing we've seen from Russia before
Speaker 1: against Ukraine since hostility started, not on February twenty four,
Speaker 1: but with the annexation of Crimea, and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people would have expected a serious intensification of
Speaker 1: that and that hasn't happened yet. Why might that be, Well,
Speaker 1: it may be that the Russian cyber hackers weren't ready,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the Russian forces, maybe they weren't
Speaker 1: told And unlike some military operations, say flying a bombing
Speaker 1: squad over a city, and a sophisticated hack of a
Speaker 1: power grid of internet infrastructure actually takes a very long
Speaker 1: time to plan. That takes a lot of time, skill, resources,
Speaker 1: and a bit of luck. You have to remain under acted,
Speaker 1: So maybe they weren't ready. Um Also, frankly, when you're
Speaker 1: in a state of full scale war, blowing something up
Speaker 1: is easier for the invader than doing a sophisticated cyber attack.
Speaker 1: So there are all sorts of reasons. But I think
Speaker 1: the sort of cyber war that we feared hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: But we're still in this crisis, and I think the
Speaker 1: President was right to sign the alarm the other night
Speaker 1: about what might happen because we need to be prepared.
Speaker 1: So how serious that would you say? The threat is
Speaker 1: of Russian cyber attacks given so many of their resources
Speaker 1: have been focused on this physical invasion thus far, And
Speaker 1: if these cyber attacks do happen, how damaging could they be?
Speaker 1: So it depends on your starting point. If you subscribe
Speaker 1: to a kind of Hollywood version of cyber war where
Speaker 1: everything goes off at once, a normal life is completely
Speaker 1: blown apart. I don't think that's realistic. That's very hard
Speaker 1: to do, and it's extremely hard to do at scale.
Speaker 1: And obviously, if you're in Ukraine, you're in fear of
Speaker 1: your life, your way of life, the survival of the country,
Speaker 1: and so they've got worse things to worry about the
Speaker 1: computer hackers, although they do have to try to defend
Speaker 1: their critical networks. But if you're looking at the risk
Speaker 1: to the West. We spoke earlier a little bit about
Speaker 1: the sort of ransomware attacks and the criminal attacks. A
Speaker 1: lot of those happened out of Russia, and Russia has
Speaker 1: got both criminals and state workers who are very very
Speaker 1: good at hacking, and maybe they don't need to do
Speaker 1: the elitive level attack on a paragride or something to
Speaker 1: cause us real difficulties. Last year, Russian criminals attacked Colonial
Speaker 1: pipelines email systems and that caused the company to shut
Speaker 1: down the pipeline, causing fuel shortages. And all the bunch
Speaker 1: of Russian criminals who've pledged support for a president Putin
Speaker 1: and his invasion last year attacked the Irish healthcare system
Speaker 1: and cause huge delayed cancer operations, anti natal services and
Speaker 1: so forth. So where those attacks to happen, I think
Speaker 1: there's a soft underbelly of a way of life that
Speaker 1: could be disrupted, not directly sort of fatal like a
Speaker 1: military operation, and but it could be seriously disruptive. And
Speaker 1: that's why I think the authorities are right to sign
Speaker 1: the alarm. What kind of counterattacks are being waged by
Speaker 1: the United States and others around the world at this moment, Well,
Speaker 1: they don't say, so it's hard to know, and occasionally
Speaker 1: some operations get declassified. But I don't think we should
Speaker 1: think that we have some magic invisible weapon that can
Speaker 1: force Putain to change his mind. Otherwise we would have
Speaker 1: used it by now. And I think if you look
Speaker 1: at it, So, let's take that operation against Irish healthcare,
Speaker 1: which was done by criminals for money. Will the United
Speaker 1: States towards allies who have been demanding that Russia ceases
Speaker 1: hostile cyber action against critical infrastructure. Would we disrupt the
Speaker 1: civilian healthcare system in Russia? Now it's technically possible, but
Speaker 1: are we going to do things to noncompetent Russian civilians
Speaker 1: that we're not prepared to do in the in the
Speaker 1: in the physical world. Some of the activists that are
Speaker 1: working on behalf of the Ukrainians have been doing things
Speaker 1: like disrupting a bit of media and that has some
Speaker 1: tactical effect, but it's hard to see what strategic effect
Speaker 1: we have. I think there's an asymmetry here. We've got
Speaker 1: these highly digitized, vulnerable societies that are more digitally advanced
Speaker 1: than most of Russian civilian life. So some it's not
Speaker 1: really a case of fighting cyber with cyber. The sanctions,
Speaker 1: the diplomatic pressure of the Army Ukrainians, those are always
Speaker 1: of pushing back, probably more than using cyber capabilities. Meantime,
Speaker 1: we are getting some headlines on the lapses the group
Speaker 1: that we believe hacked OCTA earlier this year, that a
Speaker 1: teenager is suspected by cyber research searchers of being the
Speaker 1: mastermind behind this operation, a teenager who still lives with
Speaker 1: his mom in England. What's your take on what happened
Speaker 1: with OCTA quickly and if it has any ties to
Speaker 1: the chaos going on in cyberspace as a result of
Speaker 1: the war. But we're moving from the fog of war
Speaker 1: to the chaos of the Lapsis attack and who knows.
Speaker 1: There's no evidence I've seen of any connection to the war,
Speaker 1: so let's not jump to conclusions. Actually, it's a reminder
Speaker 1: that people can cause chaos and mayhem on the internet,
Speaker 1: even if they're not connected to politically motivated objectives, even
Speaker 1: if some of their methods are laughable. So let's a
Speaker 1: critical reminder of vulnerabilities and need to clean up oor
Speaker 1: digital environment. Karen Martin, Paladin Capital Group Managing Director, really
Speaker 1: appreciate your expertise on this, Karen, thank you. At the
Speaker 1: Bloomberger Quality Summit, Visa chair and CEO L Kelly weighed
Speaker 1: in on the difficult decision to suspend operations in Russia.
Speaker 1: He also talked about how Visa is helping its employees
Speaker 1: in both Russia and Ukraine take a listen. We have
Speaker 1: employees in both Ukraine and Russia, so this impacted us
Speaker 1: and in both countries, and from the beginning, our number
Speaker 1: one goal was to get as many people to safety
Speaker 1: who wanted to be The reality is today we have
Speaker 1: about sixty families, so we took care of children, in
Speaker 1: some cases mothers and fathers. Where we did send vans
Speaker 1: through a couple of different security companies. Almost all our
Speaker 1: global security people are either in in Hungary or Poland
Speaker 1: right now, and we extracted people when we could, it's
Speaker 1: getting harder and harder to do. We have about a
Speaker 1: dozen people left in Kiev. It's gonna be hard to
Speaker 1: get them out at this point. Uh, most of our
Speaker 1: employees are on the scattered along the western coast, hoping
Speaker 1: to stay, hoping not to have to break up their
Speaker 1: their families. UM. You know when I was in Poland,
Speaker 1: the one of that's when the the base twelve kilometers
Speaker 1: from the Polish border was bombed and one of our
Speaker 1: employees husband is in the army and she had been
Speaker 1: facetiming and with with him every day, and she went
Speaker 1: like half a day or three quarters of a day
Speaker 1: without hearing from them. And right before I left Poland
Speaker 1: had to Dubai to see our Russian employees, she grabbed
Speaker 1: me and told me that she had gotten a text
Speaker 1: from him that he was alive, which at least is
Speaker 1: good news, but it shows the impact this is having,
Speaker 1: and we're equally committed to our Russian employees. We ended
Speaker 1: up UH two weeks ago shutting down or suspending our
Speaker 1: business in Russia. Not an easy decision, but a decision
Speaker 1: that was driven by three things. One is, with the
Speaker 1: sanctions UH, it was getting increasingly difficult to operate. Number Two,
Speaker 1: the reality was that we we were, you know, concerned
Speaker 1: about this unprovoked war that had been UH put upon,
Speaker 1: thrust upon the people and in Ukraine. And number three,
Speaker 1: we thought that for the sake of everybody, that had
Speaker 1: orderly wind down of the business, where we weren't forced
Speaker 1: into it by another round of sanctions that might say,
Speaker 1: you know, immediately we have to shut down, was in
Speaker 1: the best interests of everybody. And we subsequently UH made
Speaker 1: available to our Russian employees the ability to relocate, and
Speaker 1: if they relocated, we would give them a job. And
Speaker 1: in what is quite a statement, we had a town
Speaker 1: hold with them on a Sunday morning, and by that Wednesday,
Speaker 1: seventy of them and their families had already moved to
Speaker 1: dubai Um. And today I believe that now I didn't
Speaker 1: get a briefing this morning, but last I knew we
Speaker 1: were somewhere in the neighborhood of about a hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty employees in their families said migrated UH to Russia.
Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: these folks are hopeful that they'll get back in weeks.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's going to be the case. I
Speaker 1: think this is going to be a prolonged battle. I
Speaker 1: think Putin underestimated the will and the skill of the
Speaker 1: Ukrainian people. Visa Zeo L Kelly there well. Instagram will
Speaker 1: let users switch their feed so they can view the
Speaker 1: most recent posts first. This after years of complaints about
Speaker 1: the photo apps current ranking system that orders post based
Speaker 1: on user behavior. In a blog post, Instagram saying it
Speaker 1: wants people to feel good about the time they spend
Speaker 1: their giving them tools to shape their own experience. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to Bloomberg Technology and Emily Chang. In San Francisco,
Speaker 1: Maderna says it's COVID nineteen vaccine produced a strong immune
Speaker 1: response in children under age six and initial results from
Speaker 1: a large final stage trial, but it showed only modest
Speaker 1: effectiveness in reducing omicron infections. Maderna will submit this data
Speaker 1: to regulators in the US and overseas as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: I want to get more on this with Bloomberg's Drew Armstrong. Drew,
Speaker 1: what are we supposed to make of this efficacy data,
Speaker 1: and why has it been so hard to get this
Speaker 1: vaccine buttoned up for kids five and under? It's a
Speaker 1: really good question, you know. I mean, so what we
Speaker 1: know from this is that you do see this modest efficacy.
Speaker 1: I think it's a forty three percent for kids UM
Speaker 1: six months to two years and thirty seven and a
Speaker 1: half percent for UM kids two to five, which is
Speaker 1: you know, so so it's below the f d a's
Speaker 1: kind of prior stated threshold about what they're looking for.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's a couple of pieces of
Speaker 1: good news when you dig deep into this one. You know,
Speaker 1: the antibody response that's kind of the immune system's initial defense,
Speaker 1: UM line of defense. Essentially, it looks similar to what
Speaker 1: you see in adults. So that's good. UM. In terms
Speaker 1: of severe outcomes hospitalizations, deaths, it's inconclusive, and part of
Speaker 1: that is just because the trial is signed. I mean,
Speaker 1: those types of bad outcomes are so rare in kids
Speaker 1: UM luckily, that you actually would have to have a
Speaker 1: truly huge trial to be able to measure them. And
Speaker 1: you know, they did sixty undred children. I believe in
Speaker 1: this and saw you know, none of those severe events
Speaker 1: in either groups. So it's just really really hard to
Speaker 1: get the data when you're looking for events that are
Speaker 1: that rare. Visor's vaccine for kids also has had some
Speaker 1: effectiveness problems. I mean, is there something about very young
Speaker 1: children that has made this more difficult or has it
Speaker 1: not been as higher priority? Yeah, you know, you look
Speaker 1: at the hospitalization rates for younger children. They're around one
Speaker 1: in a hundred thousand of the population at any given time.
Speaker 1: That's substantially less than adults. I mean, it's I think
Speaker 1: it's about a twenty rate of adults, and so it's
Speaker 1: it's honestly, this comes down to it. It seems to
Speaker 1: be less about the actual vaccine itself. And really this
Speaker 1: is more of a statistics problem where you know, to
Speaker 1: get a result out of this, whether your visor or Maderna,
Speaker 1: you need some you know, meaningful number of kids to
Speaker 1: get sick enough to be hospitalized um in your placebo arm,
Speaker 1: and then you know none in the vaccine arm. And
Speaker 1: because those events are so rare, and because you know
Speaker 1: you're you're doing this with only a few thousand kids,
Speaker 1: it becomes really hard to detect those in a way
Speaker 1: that is statistically meaningful, and so you run these trials,
Speaker 1: you see the antibody response that tells you that, hey,
Speaker 1: this looks like it works the same way it does
Speaker 1: in adults, and that's good news, and this should be
Speaker 1: generally true for kids. But when you're looking for that
Speaker 1: type of real world efficacy where you need these real,
Speaker 1: really really rare events to happen in a defined population
Speaker 1: in a limited period of time, it's just really hard
Speaker 1: to get that and then not have it be statistical
Speaker 1: noise um And so I think that has really been
Speaker 1: the challenge. This is a trial design and stats problem.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to be as much um of a
Speaker 1: problem with the drugs themselves sort with the vaccines themselves,
Speaker 1: but again, it's just really hard to measure. All right. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks for working through the complexities of all this as
Speaker 1: a mom with kids in that age group. Very anxious
Speaker 1: to see more progress here, Drew Armstrong, thank you. I
Speaker 1: want to continue the conversation out and talk about how
Speaker 1: the pandemic has impacted the healthcare landscape. I want to
Speaker 1: bring in Tera this one often RUPA Health founder and CEO,
Speaker 1: along with tallya Goldberg partner at Bessemer Venture Partners, partners
Speaker 1: Roup of Health just raised twenty million dollars in their
Speaker 1: series A led by Bessemer. Thank you both so much
Speaker 1: for joining us, Tara, I want to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit for us about what RUPA does that you focus
Speaker 1: on specialty lab tests, which, to be fair, you know,
Speaker 1: often get ignored by traditional doctors, to traditional Western medicine,
Speaker 1: they're not covered by insurance. What is the gap that
Speaker 1: RUPA is looking to fill here? Yeah, so the gap
Speaker 1: is really one piece of it is the type of
Speaker 1: lab tests that we give doctors access to. So our
Speaker 1: platform allows doctors to have access to over three thousand
Speaker 1: different specially lab tests. And when we say that, we're
Speaker 1: talking about DNA testing, microbiome testing, advanced hormone panels and
Speaker 1: things like that. And so our broader mission is to
Speaker 1: make personalized root cause approach to met us and accessible
Speaker 1: and available to every person on the planet. And you know,
Speaker 1: we can talk a little bit more about the gap
Speaker 1: and how we're being treated, but what's happening on a
Speaker 1: macro level is this shift towards patients demanding more holistic
Speaker 1: and personalized care. Talia, let's talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about that. Obviously, you know some people are learning the
Speaker 1: hard way they need to take be their own advocates
Speaker 1: when it comes to healthcare. You know, where do you
Speaker 1: see weaknesses in the health care system and how do
Speaker 1: you see this as an opportunity to address those I think, well,
Speaker 1: first off, thank you so much for having us on
Speaker 1: the show. It's great to be here UM, and we're
Speaker 1: really excited to have let the series day and rub
Speaker 1: up because the shift that Tara just described, of the
Speaker 1: shift towards root cause health and personalized care UM, there's
Speaker 1: enormous consumer demand and there's been a lack of accessibility
Speaker 1: and availability for this sort of testing, some of which
Speaker 1: is newer, newer agnostics and newer types of tests that
Speaker 1: are emerging, things like genomics microbiome testing UM that we're
Speaker 1: just starting to get really great data on and be
Speaker 1: able to use in a personalized and holistic manner. And
Speaker 1: as all of these specialty tests have emerged and there's
Speaker 1: growing demand and their importance in the landscape UM has swelled,
Speaker 1: there's been a challenge and actually accessing those tests and
Speaker 1: synthesizing what the data means and how to interpret the
Speaker 1: diagnoses UM and actually taking action. And so that's where
Speaker 1: we see enormous potential for Ruba to make root cause
Speaker 1: care just normal healthcare, uh that every patient and every
Speaker 1: consumer has access to Tara healthcare, and our needs have
Speaker 1: evolved dramatically through this pandemic. I'm curious for your thoughts
Speaker 1: about where we are in this pandemic and the decision
Speaker 1: at this point to live with the virus but keep businesses,
Speaker 1: for example, open, even though we're not necessarily at the
Speaker 1: final end. Is that really the right call. That's a
Speaker 1: tough question, and I think it's um it's tough for
Speaker 1: any one person to answer, and I think we're seeing
Speaker 1: that with the broader, broader government and state by state
Speaker 1: regulations as well. I think one of the things that's
Speaker 1: been interesting in in our world, in our field is
Speaker 1: actually this potential like continuing epidemic of long COVID and
Speaker 1: how we're actually going to be treating that in the
Speaker 1: day to day because by this point, many people have
Speaker 1: actually experienced experience the disease, but they have they have
Speaker 1: not they have not been rid of all of the
Speaker 1: symptoms yet, and so one I think struggle we're going
Speaker 1: to have is how to actually treat all of these
Speaker 1: people who are experiencing these long COVID symptoms, Talia, how
Speaker 1: do you think about that? I mean, obviously, you know
Speaker 1: we're in kind of a whole new world. We're gonna
Speaker 1: be living with an epidemic for potentially years. What does
Speaker 1: that mean from a healthcare perspective? And how is that
Speaker 1: influence where you and Bessemer are placing your bets. It's
Speaker 1: had an enormous impact on the investment landscape. One of
Speaker 1: the major changes that has happened has obviously been the
Speaker 1: adoption and acceleration of at home testing, which plays in
Speaker 1: really well with a lot of the momentum that we
Speaker 1: see with Rupa health UM, as well as with the
Speaker 1: availability of telehealth and accessibility of that, and I think
Speaker 1: making again healthcare more affordable, more accessible UM, and more holistic,
Speaker 1: taking into account mental health, physical health, UM, and someone's
Speaker 1: environment is is really important. And we're starting to really
Speaker 1: see the UM the potential of some of the new
Speaker 1: technologies and new models of care that are emerging really
Speaker 1: on display throughout COVID and that's what's been super exciting
Speaker 1: for us and has been behind a lot of our
Speaker 1: investments over the past two years. All very important UM.
Speaker 1: Tara vis Wanathan, Rupa Health founder and CEO along Talia Goldberg,
Speaker 1: partner at Bessemer, will keep our eye on you both.
Speaker 1: Coming up where bitcoin goes from here? Speaking with Anthony
Speaker 1: pomp Liano also known as POMP, to talk about the
Speaker 1: crypto landscape, the war on Ukraine, and what institutional adoptive
Speaker 1: adoption of cryptocurrency looks like over the next few years.
Speaker 1: More on that next. This is Bloomberg time now for
Speaker 1: our crypto rapport with Bitcoin while staying in its range
Speaker 1: after breaking for a bit, not going much higher or lower,
Speaker 1: staying in that tight range ever since the start of
Speaker 1: the year. Joining us now our crypto contributor sale Bostick
Speaker 1: with more shnale. Why isn't it breaking out? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's really the real question here. We are back above
Speaker 1: for three hundred dollars, but we have been about in
Speaker 1: a fifteen thousand dollar range since the beginning of the year.
Speaker 1: Here we have not yet hit even the highs of
Speaker 1: this year. So the big question here is what will
Speaker 1: give bitcoin another leg higher? One question that we will
Speaker 1: have answered by our next guest, Anthony Pompliano from POMP Investments.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. What is keeping
Speaker 1: bitcoin from breaking out this year the way it had
Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, one of the big things that is
Speaker 1: very obvious with bitcoin is that the supply demand, uh
Speaker 1: that mechanisms are very well understood, and so you can
Speaker 1: actually go ahead and check on the on chain metrics
Speaker 1: where the supply is and how a liquid and what
Speaker 1: we're watching is exactly what we actually saw in and
Speaker 1: then again in the summer right before the big run up,
Speaker 1: is that more and more long term holders are acquiring bitcoin,
Speaker 1: they're taking it off of exchanges, Miners are acquiring bitcoin,
Speaker 1: they are not selling what they're mining, and so you're
Speaker 1: getting this highly illiquid supply that once a catalyst hits,
Speaker 1: regardless of what it is, whether it comes from the
Speaker 1: macro environment, whether it comes from a big buyer, bitcoin
Speaker 1: could be one of many many things that catalyst will
Speaker 1: go ahead and kind of ignite this underlying a liquid market,
Speaker 1: and I would expect to see a very big movement
Speaker 1: the bitcoin price. Now when that happens is the big question.
Speaker 1: Will that happen in the coming weeks, will it take
Speaker 1: months to happen. Nobody knows. But whatever we get these
Speaker 1: lulls where people are to supply off the market, it's
Speaker 1: becoming highly liquid. That's where we see those parabox moves
Speaker 1: happen shortly afterwards. You know, I'm kind of curious, not
Speaker 1: just about liquid markets generally, I'm curious about the private
Speaker 1: markets here. You had been tweeting about the board at
Speaker 1: yah Club Club creator you Go Labs raising four d
Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in the seed round, a big seed round.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that the private space is garnering
Speaker 1: so much money? And what do you think about the
Speaker 1: private valuations here? I think there's two things happening. One,
Speaker 1: if you're investing in bonds, you're losing. If you're holding cash,
Speaker 1: you're losing. So people have to go to the private market.
Speaker 1: They have to push out on the risk curb. That's
Speaker 1: exactly what they're doing. The second thing is this is
Speaker 1: a generational trait. If you want to get asymmetric returns,
Speaker 1: you have to go and invest in bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 1: You have to invest in the infrastructure, you have to
Speaker 1: invest in the liquid assets. And that's what every single
Speaker 1: great investor is doing. And so the ones that are
Speaker 1: still sitting out from this market, frankly, they're just going
Speaker 1: to be left behind. And I think that seeing this
Speaker 1: foreigner fifty million dollar round is a perfect example. If
Speaker 1: you look at the Yuga Labs financials, their mind blow.
Speaker 1: These guys are operating with a margin, their company is
Speaker 1: less than two years old, and they've got nine figures
Speaker 1: of revenue. Anybody on the planet who would see those
Speaker 1: types of financial metrics would be excited about investing this
Speaker 1: type of business with this type of momentum. And so
Speaker 1: I think that there's plenty of people who point at
Speaker 1: the industry, they laugh, they don't understand it. But what
Speaker 1: I do know is that the world's wealthiest people not
Speaker 1: the future wealthiest. The world's wealthiest people today are crypto investors.
Speaker 1: And my guess is that over time, the Force four
Speaker 1: hundred is gonna be dominated by bitcoin and crypto investors.
Speaker 1: And so if you want to be part of that,
Speaker 1: you should get into the industry. Given the prominent role
Speaker 1: that crypto is playing in the war on Ukraine and
Speaker 1: especially in providing humanitarian aid along with President Biden's executive order,
Speaker 1: why don't you think bitcoin has broken out in a
Speaker 1: bigger way? Well, Bitcoin's up twenty since Russia invaded Ukraine,
Speaker 1: and so ultimately people tend to look at since it's
Speaker 1: so volatile, it's hard to lose track of what's happened
Speaker 1: in just a matter of weeks, but it's it's outperformed
Speaker 1: in three other assets that people would look at in
Speaker 1: these types of scenarios, we just don't think about that
Speaker 1: has been trading in that range. And so I think
Speaker 1: that watching what has happened on the Ukraine situation is
Speaker 1: a perfect example. The raised over a hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: from bitcoin and crypto investors around the world. That's more
Speaker 1: than most countries gave to Ukraine. And so when you
Speaker 1: start to see this, how you do it? They literally
Speaker 1: just posted a wallet address on the Internet, and that's
Speaker 1: just the donations directly to the government. As Alex glad
Speaker 1: Steams from the Human Rights Foundation pointed out, that doesn't
Speaker 1: even include the NGOs or any of the non government
Speaker 1: type organizations that also got those donations. And so I
Speaker 1: ultimately think that what people are waking up to is
Speaker 1: these payment rails are superior to every other payment rail
Speaker 1: in the world. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are good for business,
Speaker 1: and that's true for individuals, that's true for corporations, that's
Speaker 1: true for nation states, and whether we're talking about nation
Speaker 1: states like El Salvador, the United States, where the president
Speaker 1: and his administration is now said he wants to be
Speaker 1: a global leader, or we're talking about a country that
Speaker 1: is literally being invaded by a nuclear armed adversary. Every
Speaker 1: single person needs this technology, and if you don't adopt it,
Speaker 1: somebody else will and you will be at a disadvantage. Now,
Speaker 1: to new investors, it's really bitcoin, evarium and everyone else.
Speaker 1: There are thousands of other cryptocurrencies out there. I recently
Speaker 1: spoke with Michael Saylor of micro Strategy, the world's biggest
Speaker 1: corporate holder of bitcoin as far as we know, and asked,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna see massive consolidation in this market, how
Speaker 1: many cryptocurrencies actually exist five years from now. Take a
Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say. This is a
Speaker 1: rotation from an entrepreneurial driven industry to an institutionally driven industry.
Speaker 1: And we're sitting at this point where we're crossing the chasm,
Speaker 1: and the question is which and which on trepreneurs will
Speaker 1: be institutionalized income public. There will be a shakeout, and
Speaker 1: obviously crypto current sees are not going to be around
Speaker 1: here in a decade. What do you think the crypto
Speaker 1: industry looks like in five years, how many cryptocurrencies actually
Speaker 1: survive and which ones are they? Yeah, look, I think
Speaker 1: that he's dead on right. Anytime you have brand new technology,
Speaker 1: have tons of intellectual capital and financial capital flowing into
Speaker 1: an industry like this, you're going to get a lot
Speaker 1: of folks who are experimenting. They're trying things, but the
Speaker 1: truth is that most of them don't last. And if
Speaker 1: we go back to the late nineties as an example,
Speaker 1: all the ideas were right straining music, food delivery, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But those first iterations, most of them did not work,
Speaker 1: and it took another decade before the infrastructure was in place.
Speaker 1: People understand the technologies. There was the consumer behavior kind
Speaker 1: of transition, and I think the same thing is going
Speaker 1: to happen here now. The beauty of this is something
Speaker 1: like bitcoins, specifically as a digital currency. This is not
Speaker 1: the first attempt at at this. For over forty years,
Speaker 1: the cipher punk movement has been trying to create digital currency,
Speaker 1: and finally on iteration eight nine ten, whatever Bitcoin ended
Speaker 1: up being now is actually struck and is receiving global adoption.
Speaker 1: The same thing is likely to happen in many of
Speaker 1: these other ideas is just gonna take a while for
Speaker 1: us to get there. So you're somebody that's moved to Miami,
Speaker 1: a place that you know, the mayor has been very
Speaker 1: openly accepting cryptocurrencies in the community. To what extent pomp
Speaker 1: are you seeing other cities and states truly adopt cryptocurrencies
Speaker 1: as a form of payment, as a form of ways
Speaker 1: of accepting taxes, uh and welcoming some more of the
Speaker 1: community there. Yeah. Look, I think the Miami is the
Speaker 1: shining example of what freedom and leadership is in the
Speaker 1: United States today. This is the last place in the
Speaker 1: world where socialism is going to take hold. And I
Speaker 1: think that what we're watching play out here is a
Speaker 1: resurgence in the fact that leadership does matter. And so
Speaker 1: what Mayor Swore has has done is he has taken
Speaker 1: a city that most people frankly didn't even know existed
Speaker 1: outside of Miami Beach and kind of the South Beast
Speaker 1: tourism area, and he has revitalized by putting a flag
Speaker 1: in the ground and basically promising one thing, I'm going
Speaker 1: you cheer for your success and do everything I can
Speaker 1: to help you be successful. And the sad part is
Speaker 1: that that is a message that is exactly a hundred
Speaker 1: and eight degrees degrees different than most people have been
Speaker 1: hearing in places like New York City or in various
Speaker 1: cities across California. And so I think that bitcoin is
Speaker 1: a big part of that story, it's not the only
Speaker 1: part of the story. And what you're now watching is
Speaker 1: that politicians are realized, both at the local, state and
Speaker 1: federal level, that bitcoin is good for their campaigns, it's
Speaker 1: good for business. I have had literally tens of different
Speaker 1: politicians who are running through various positions across the political
Speaker 1: spectrum in this next election reach out, and they're leading
Speaker 1: messages on pro bitcoin, on pro crypto. But that is
Speaker 1: no longer something that makes you stand out. If you
Speaker 1: are anti these technologies, you're basically going against tens of
Speaker 1: millions of Americans where they're choosing to store their Well,
Speaker 1: you will not get elected. And if you're anti crypto
Speaker 1: and you're in a current seat, you will be voted out.
Speaker 1: And I think politicians are both looking at this as
Speaker 1: a curate and stick. It's a character because you'll get
Speaker 1: the support of the community if you're pro the technology,
Speaker 1: and it's a stick because if you are Antibeast Technologies,
Speaker 1: they'll meet you to death on Twitter and they'll chat alls. Alright,
Speaker 1: no room for interpretation there. Uh, Anthony pomp Liano Pomp,
Speaker 1: as you're known from Pomp Investments. Thank you. Along with
Speaker 1: Shannali bask Let's talk China tech. Now. Ten Cent the
Speaker 1: latest company in China to embrace a new paradigm of
Speaker 1: stricter government oversight. Shares of the social media and gaming
Speaker 1: giant dropped after it posted single digit sales growth for
Speaker 1: the first time since listing in two thousand four. Now
Speaker 1: ten Cents saying it's time for an era of healthy
Speaker 1: growth are Ludlow joins us now to unpack at all
Speaker 1: that is a huge change. Ed, Yeah, it is, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on right. Growth has slowed down.
Speaker 1: The advertising market is difficult. Ten Cent is a social
Speaker 1: media company. The gaming environment in China very hard, the
Speaker 1: regulatory crackdown as pause licensing. But the reality is what
Speaker 1: ten Cents saying is we can no longer basically fund
Speaker 1: losses through the capital markets and to drive that high
Speaker 1: rate of growth. I mean, just look at that chart
Speaker 1: on your screen, and they're kind of acknowledging that in
Speaker 1: the environment, the Chinese government have put in place, there's
Speaker 1: a new normal, which is one that they play ball
Speaker 1: in and that it will actually help the company to
Speaker 1: be more stable, have stable, healthy growth as you put
Speaker 1: it in quoting the company, but he should also help
Speaker 1: stabilize margins too. So what comes next here? Could it
Speaker 1: be other companies saying they're also in for an era
Speaker 1: of healthy growth? Yeah, I mean Ali Barber was kind
Speaker 1: of the first big of the tech giants in China
Speaker 1: to say, yep, we agree with this kind of position
Speaker 1: from the Chinese government of cracking down. Ten cents followed
Speaker 1: suit and in specific cases ten cents talking about working
Speaker 1: much more closely with the government. So, for example, one
Speaker 1: bright spot for the business is it's fintech harm and
Speaker 1: you know they have known to make acquisitions, and they're
Speaker 1: talking about potentially having a separate financial holding company for
Speaker 1: that business, about working closer with the Chinese government. The
Speaker 1: other half is kind of the outlook, right, the Chinese
Speaker 1: government has changed its tune of late and been signaling
Speaker 1: they'll be more supportive that this crackdown on their tech
Speaker 1: companies that's been going for a year could ease. So
Speaker 1: then what comes next, Well, they talk about working closely
Speaker 1: with the government on gaming for example, where they have
Speaker 1: a pipeline of games ready to go, but they've not
Speaker 1: been able to bring them to market because of the
Speaker 1: licensing holes. So it's a kind of old playball with
Speaker 1: the government, kind of game in the best interests of
Speaker 1: future growth, and you wonder what the additional pain points are.
Speaker 1: Thank you that does it For this edition of bloomber Technology,
Speaker 1: join us tomorrow. We've been joined by Kathy Gao of
Speaker 1: Sapphire Ventures along with Ross Gerber talk all Things Disney,
Speaker 1: as well as Spencer Bogart of Blockchain Capital and don't
Speaker 1: forget to check out our new podcast. You can find
Speaker 1: it on the terminal of course, and with Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: I Heart, and wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emily
Speaker 1: Changing in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg