1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Changing San Francisco and this is 4 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up. In the next hour, President Biden 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: arrives in Brussels ahead of a meeting with allies on 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine, including a NATO summit. We will 7 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: break down what to expect from this trip to Europe, 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: plus new details on the hacking group behind the Octa breach, 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: why they've been called laughably bad even as they've managed 10 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: to infiltrate so many large scale tech companies, and Madernat 11 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: says it's COVID vaccine produced a strong immune response in 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: kids under age six, but it's only honestly effective against omocron. 13 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: WHA on that. Later this hour, President Biden now in Brussels, 14 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: set to meet with European leaders and attend an emergency 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: NATO summit, the goal to show that the world is 16 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: united against Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Bloomberg's political news director 17 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: Jody Schneider with US Now, Jody, what are we expecting 18 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: from this trip? What does President Biden want to convey Yeah, Emily. 19 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: He wants. There's several main messages to look for from 20 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: President Biden now that he's in Brussels. One will be 21 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: unity that NATO and UH and the European allies and 22 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: the US and the UK are united in their denunciation 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: of Vladimir Putin and his invasion of Ukraine, and that 24 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: they are doing what they can to try to stop 25 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: it from going any further and to stop him UH 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: from from uh you know, anything any gains he can 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: make there, and to punish him for this. UH. Biden 28 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: also wants to show solidarity with the European countries that 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: are taking in so far millions of refugees from Ukraine. 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: More than three point three million UH Ukrainians have left 31 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: their country for neighboring countries. More than ten million have 32 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: left their homes. Obviously some sting in Ukraine, but they 33 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: have they have had to leave their homes and their communities. 34 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: And so President Biden wants to make that clear UH 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: that the US supports and and empathizes with this what 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: will be a growing refugee crisis. Certainly, he wants to 37 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 1: make the case for more sanctions. The US has had 38 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: the toughest sanctions on oil because the US frankly imports 39 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: the least amount of crude oil and petroleum products from Russia. 40 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: European countries in a much more different situation, but the 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: US wants to push them to do more on sanctions. 42 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: So those will be the three messages you can look 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: for from the US president. Well, and how could we 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: see the US step up sanctions and put pressure on 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: Europe to step up sanctions. Yeah, so the US has already, 46 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, gone a long way towards sanctioning both uh, 47 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: the oligarchs in Russia, and UH done things like you know, 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: banned the import of Russian oil, Russian crude oil to 49 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: the US. However, they're taking more steps and UH, the 50 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said today the President Biden 51 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: tomorrow at that summit and on Friday, will be announcing 52 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: even more sanctions against oligarchs, against individuals as well as 53 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: companies and other entities. So the US is trying to 54 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: double down even more on those sanctions, even as Vladimir 55 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: Putin continues to criticize them. And we will be seeing more. 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: I think we will be seeing at least more verbal 57 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: um accusations made against Russia. President Biden before he got 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: on the plane, when he was talking to reporters before 59 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: he got on Air Force one or earlier today, said 60 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: that he would not be prize. The Ladimir Protin was 61 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: to use chemical weapons in Ukraine. So there will be 62 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: a lot of warnings as well as talk about sections. 63 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: All right, Bloomberg's Jody Schneider, thank you for that. Update 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: will continue to follow the president's trip in Europe. Meantime, 65 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: insta Cart is launching a platform of services to sell 66 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: to supermarkets, including fifteen minute delivery for grocery retailers and 67 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: building warehouses to store products and manage picking, packing and 68 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: delivery for supermarkets, a move that cements the company's turn 69 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: into enterprise services. Under new CEO FJ Cmo, Insta Cart 70 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: has been making multiple moves to strengthen the company's relationship 71 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: with grocers as opposed to just consumers. Coming up, they 72 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: claimed to have hacked some of the biggest names in tech. 73 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: We've got the latest on Lapses and how they've managed 74 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: to preach so many large scale tech companies despite being 75 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: described as laughable. That is next. This is Bloomberg the 76 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: latest now on the evolving Opta breach the identity management 77 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: company that many businesses use as a top line of 78 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: cyber defense. The group behind the breach calls itself Lapsis, 79 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg reports it has a murky background. For more, 80 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Bloomberg's Jack Gillum, who reports on cybersecurity 81 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: for US. So Jack talked to us about what we've 82 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: learned about LOPSIS in the last twenty four hours. We've 83 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: heard laughable, We've heard the word murky. Who are they? So? 84 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: This is a group Emily that has sort of breached, 85 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: has risen up in the last year or two, according 86 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: to certain experts that we've spoken with. Um, they've made 87 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: bigger splashes in the last few months. They operate on 88 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: Telegram channels, which we might use to communicate with folks, 89 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: but they used it to actually, uh, you know, brag 90 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: about what they've been able to hack. Um. They're kind 91 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: of an interesting group. Normally, when we think of these groups, 92 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: we think of folks ransomware actors who take our data 93 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: and encrypted and will offer to unlock it for us 94 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: if we give them, you know, some sort of money 95 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: in exchange. UM. These folks instead will just release the data. UM. 96 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: Now you know, we've talked about them being sort of 97 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: laughably bad. That was one expert we we spoke to 98 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: who studies this kind of stuff. Um, but you know, 99 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: just like a broken clock is right twice a day. 100 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean, even idiots, he said, can do really bad things. Uh. 101 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: In this case, they apparently had released the source code, 102 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: some source code of being, which is Microsoft's signature search engine, 103 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: their mapping platform, their voice recognition software. Um. So you know, 104 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: even if there are they might be you know, kids, 105 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: they might be amateurs, they might not be nation state hackers. 106 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: You know, given the right tools and opportunities, that could 107 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: be pretty dangerous. Right. So they've hit Microsoft, as you say, 108 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: they've been targeting Crypto, and of course this Octa breach. 109 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: Let's dig in to what exactly happened with Octa because 110 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: Octa says the company itself was not breach, but due 111 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: to a breach of a third party, three sixty six 112 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: Octa customers were compromised. How serious is this and what 113 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: does that actually mean? So to start from the beginning, 114 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: Octa is what's called an identity management platform. That's just 115 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: a fancy way of having a central place where you 116 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: can log in, you know, putting your user name and password. 117 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: We all do it for our jobs. Um, you know, 118 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: where you just have to put in your credentials. Your 119 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: two factor authentication wants to get access to all sorts 120 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: of things. So that essentially is like a mainline uh, 121 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, authentication to get into say a company web portal, 122 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: um to get into a software developers back in you 123 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: name it. Now, you know, it's only as the company says, 124 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: two point five percent, but that's still hundreds of companies, 125 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, as you mentioned three hundred and sixty six. 126 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: And while we need to be careful here and appreciate 127 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: that this investigation is ongoing, you know, the details are 128 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: slowly coming out and we're understanding them. You know, at 129 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: worst case scenario here, these attackers could get access to 130 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: these victims networks. So even though OCTA may in and 131 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: of itself not have been breached, if these attackers were 132 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: able to get sort of get into that authentication stream, 133 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, be able to get into uh one of 134 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: their client's networks, they could pull out all sorts of data. 135 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: And we don't know the extent of that yet, but 136 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: I think that's going to be the big question as 137 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: we go forward here so it does sound pretty serious. Indeed, 138 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: and just to underscore this, you said LAPSES is not 139 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: a nation state tied hacking group. Does that mean this 140 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: has no relation to potential Russian cyber attacks or the 141 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: chaos going on in cyberspace right now as a result 142 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It might not be emily. 143 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: But we also need to realize, and this is to 144 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: follow up on the you know, very not specific, but 145 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: very repeated warnings by the US government and others that 146 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, Russia is looking for opportunities, they say, to 147 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: access major companies and their networks in order to bring 148 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: them down, especially critical utilities. We saw and new Burger Um, 149 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: the senior US official in charge of cyber Um, who 150 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: made a very public plea about companies updating their security. 151 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: Adding this what's called two factor authentication. So you might 152 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: have a group of you know, a loose group of 153 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: folks who are trying to infiltrate companies and steal their data. 154 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: But these two things aren't mutually exclusive. You still have 155 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: what the government is calling this persistent threat of Russian 156 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: nation states um and that companies need to do more 157 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: in order to improve their security and keep themselves and 158 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: their customers safe, all right, Bloomberg, Jack Gill and thanks 159 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: for the additional details there. I do want to continue 160 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: this conversation on cybersecurity and bringing Karen Martin. He is 161 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: the former CEO of the UK's National Cybersecurity Center. He 162 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: is also the managing director at Paladin Capital Scarin. Thank 163 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. You know, so far 164 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: it seems we have seen a dearth of cyber attacks 165 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: from Russian would be attacker since the war has started, 166 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: would you agree and why is that? Well, thank you 167 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: Emily for having me on. I think saying as a 168 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: dearth of attacks might be taking it a little bit farther. 169 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: Have been some quite important hacks. There was the hack 170 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: of the VIAS satellite network, which according to the Ukrainian 171 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: Cybersecurity Agency, caused some quite serious disruption to communications. But 172 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: that's the sort of thing we've seen from Russia before 173 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: against Ukraine since hostility started, not on February twenty four, 174 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: but with the annexation of Crimea, and I think a 175 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: lot of people would have expected a serious intensification of 176 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: that and that hasn't happened yet. Why might that be, Well, 177 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: it may be that the Russian cyber hackers weren't ready, 178 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: like a lot of the Russian forces, maybe they weren't 179 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: told And unlike some military operations, say flying a bombing 180 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: squad over a city, and a sophisticated hack of a 181 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: power grid of internet infrastructure actually takes a very long 182 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: time to plan. That takes a lot of time, skill, resources, 183 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: and a bit of luck. You have to remain under acted, 184 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: So maybe they weren't ready. Um Also, frankly, when you're 185 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: in a state of full scale war, blowing something up 186 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: is easier for the invader than doing a sophisticated cyber attack. 187 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: So there are all sorts of reasons. But I think 188 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: the sort of cyber war that we feared hasn't happened yet. 189 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: But we're still in this crisis, and I think the 190 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: President was right to sign the alarm the other night 191 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: about what might happen because we need to be prepared. 192 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: So how serious that would you say? The threat is 193 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: of Russian cyber attacks given so many of their resources 194 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: have been focused on this physical invasion thus far, And 195 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: if these cyber attacks do happen, how damaging could they be? 196 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: So it depends on your starting point. If you subscribe 197 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: to a kind of Hollywood version of cyber war where 198 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: everything goes off at once, a normal life is completely 199 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: blown apart. I don't think that's realistic. That's very hard 200 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: to do, and it's extremely hard to do at scale. 201 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: And obviously, if you're in Ukraine, you're in fear of 202 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: your life, your way of life, the survival of the country, 203 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: and so they've got worse things to worry about the 204 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: computer hackers, although they do have to try to defend 205 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: their critical networks. But if you're looking at the risk 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: to the West. We spoke earlier a little bit about 207 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: the sort of ransomware attacks and the criminal attacks. A 208 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: lot of those happened out of Russia, and Russia has 209 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: got both criminals and state workers who are very very 210 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: good at hacking, and maybe they don't need to do 211 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: the elitive level attack on a paragride or something to 212 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: cause us real difficulties. Last year, Russian criminals attacked Colonial 213 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: pipelines email systems and that caused the company to shut 214 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: down the pipeline, causing fuel shortages. And all the bunch 215 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: of Russian criminals who've pledged support for a president Putin 216 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: and his invasion last year attacked the Irish healthcare system 217 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: and cause huge delayed cancer operations, anti natal services and 218 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: so forth. So where those attacks to happen, I think 219 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: there's a soft underbelly of a way of life that 220 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: could be disrupted, not directly sort of fatal like a 221 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: military operation, and but it could be seriously disruptive. And 222 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: that's why I think the authorities are right to sign 223 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: the alarm. What kind of counterattacks are being waged by 224 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: the United States and others around the world at this moment, Well, 225 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: they don't say, so it's hard to know, and occasionally 226 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: some operations get declassified. But I don't think we should 227 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: think that we have some magic invisible weapon that can 228 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: force Putain to change his mind. Otherwise we would have 229 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: used it by now. And I think if you look 230 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: at it, So, let's take that operation against Irish healthcare, 231 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: which was done by criminals for money. Will the United 232 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: States towards allies who have been demanding that Russia ceases 233 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 1: hostile cyber action against critical infrastructure. Would we disrupt the 234 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: civilian healthcare system in Russia? Now it's technically possible, but 235 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: are we going to do things to noncompetent Russian civilians 236 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: that we're not prepared to do in the in the 237 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: in the physical world. Some of the activists that are 238 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: working on behalf of the Ukrainians have been doing things 239 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: like disrupting a bit of media and that has some 240 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: tactical effect, but it's hard to see what strategic effect 241 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: we have. I think there's an asymmetry here. We've got 242 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: these highly digitized, vulnerable societies that are more digitally advanced 243 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: than most of Russian civilian life. So some it's not 244 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: really a case of fighting cyber with cyber. The sanctions, 245 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: the diplomatic pressure of the Army Ukrainians, those are always 246 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: of pushing back, probably more than using cyber capabilities. Meantime, 247 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: we are getting some headlines on the lapses the group 248 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: that we believe hacked OCTA earlier this year, that a 249 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: teenager is suspected by cyber research searchers of being the 250 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: mastermind behind this operation, a teenager who still lives with 251 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: his mom in England. What's your take on what happened 252 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: with OCTA quickly and if it has any ties to 253 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: the chaos going on in cyberspace as a result of 254 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: the war. But we're moving from the fog of war 255 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: to the chaos of the Lapsis attack and who knows. 256 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: There's no evidence I've seen of any connection to the war, 257 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: so let's not jump to conclusions. Actually, it's a reminder 258 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: that people can cause chaos and mayhem on the internet, 259 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: even if they're not connected to politically motivated objectives, even 260 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: if some of their methods are laughable. So let's a 261 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: critical reminder of vulnerabilities and need to clean up oor 262 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: digital environment. Karen Martin, Paladin Capital Group Managing Director, really 263 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: appreciate your expertise on this, Karen, thank you. At the 264 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberger Quality Summit, Visa chair and CEO L Kelly weighed 265 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: in on the difficult decision to suspend operations in Russia. 266 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: He also talked about how Visa is helping its employees 267 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: in both Russia and Ukraine take a listen. We have 268 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: employees in both Ukraine and Russia, so this impacted us 269 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: and in both countries, and from the beginning, our number 270 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: one goal was to get as many people to safety 271 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: who wanted to be The reality is today we have 272 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: about sixty families, so we took care of children, in 273 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: some cases mothers and fathers. Where we did send vans 274 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: through a couple of different security companies. Almost all our 275 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: global security people are either in in Hungary or Poland 276 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: right now, and we extracted people when we could, it's 277 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: getting harder and harder to do. We have about a 278 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: dozen people left in Kiev. It's gonna be hard to 279 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: get them out at this point. Uh, most of our 280 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: employees are on the scattered along the western coast, hoping 281 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: to stay, hoping not to have to break up their 282 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: their families. UM. You know when I was in Poland, 283 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: the one of that's when the the base twelve kilometers 284 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: from the Polish border was bombed and one of our 285 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: employees husband is in the army and she had been 286 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: facetiming and with with him every day, and she went 287 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: like half a day or three quarters of a day 288 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: without hearing from them. And right before I left Poland 289 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: had to Dubai to see our Russian employees, she grabbed 290 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: me and told me that she had gotten a text 291 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: from him that he was alive, which at least is 292 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: good news, but it shows the impact this is having, 293 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: and we're equally committed to our Russian employees. We ended 294 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: up UH two weeks ago shutting down or suspending our 295 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: business in Russia. Not an easy decision, but a decision 296 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: that was driven by three things. One is, with the 297 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: sanctions UH, it was getting increasingly difficult to operate. Number Two, 298 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: the reality was that we we were, you know, concerned 299 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: about this unprovoked war that had been UH put upon, 300 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: thrust upon the people and in Ukraine. And number three, 301 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: we thought that for the sake of everybody, that had 302 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: orderly wind down of the business, where we weren't forced 303 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: into it by another round of sanctions that might say, 304 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, immediately we have to shut down, was in 305 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: the best interests of everybody. And we subsequently UH made 306 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: available to our Russian employees the ability to relocate, and 307 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: if they relocated, we would give them a job. And 308 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: in what is quite a statement, we had a town 309 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: hold with them on a Sunday morning, and by that Wednesday, 310 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: seventy of them and their families had already moved to 311 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: dubai Um. And today I believe that now I didn't 312 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: get a briefing this morning, but last I knew we 313 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: were somewhere in the neighborhood of about a hundred and 314 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: twenty employees in their families said migrated UH to Russia. 315 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. You know, a lot of 316 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: these folks are hopeful that they'll get back in weeks. 317 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's going to be the case. I 318 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: think this is going to be a prolonged battle. I 319 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: think Putin underestimated the will and the skill of the 320 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: Ukrainian people. Visa Zeo L Kelly there well. Instagram will 321 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: let users switch their feed so they can view the 322 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: most recent posts first. This after years of complaints about 323 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: the photo apps current ranking system that orders post based 324 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: on user behavior. In a blog post, Instagram saying it 325 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: wants people to feel good about the time they spend 326 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: their giving them tools to shape their own experience. Welcome 327 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: back to Bloomberg Technology and Emily Chang. In San Francisco, 328 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: Maderna says it's COVID nineteen vaccine produced a strong immune 329 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: response in children under age six and initial results from 330 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: a large final stage trial, but it showed only modest 331 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: effectiveness in reducing omicron infections. Maderna will submit this data 332 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: to regulators in the US and overseas as soon as possible. 333 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: I want to get more on this with Bloomberg's Drew Armstrong. Drew, 334 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: what are we supposed to make of this efficacy data, 335 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: and why has it been so hard to get this 336 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: vaccine buttoned up for kids five and under? It's a 337 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: really good question, you know. I mean, so what we 338 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: know from this is that you do see this modest efficacy. 339 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: I think it's a forty three percent for kids UM 340 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: six months to two years and thirty seven and a 341 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: half percent for UM kids two to five, which is 342 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, so so it's below the f d a's 343 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: kind of prior stated threshold about what they're looking for. 344 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's a couple of pieces of 345 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: good news when you dig deep into this one. You know, 346 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: the antibody response that's kind of the immune system's initial defense, 347 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: UM line of defense. Essentially, it looks similar to what 348 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: you see in adults. So that's good. UM. In terms 349 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: of severe outcomes hospitalizations, deaths, it's inconclusive, and part of 350 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: that is just because the trial is signed. I mean, 351 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: those types of bad outcomes are so rare in kids 352 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: UM luckily, that you actually would have to have a 353 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: truly huge trial to be able to measure them. And 354 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, they did sixty undred children. I believe in 355 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: this and saw you know, none of those severe events 356 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: in either groups. So it's just really really hard to 357 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: get the data when you're looking for events that are 358 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: that rare. Visor's vaccine for kids also has had some 359 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: effectiveness problems. I mean, is there something about very young 360 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: children that has made this more difficult or has it 361 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: not been as higher priority? Yeah, you know, you look 362 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: at the hospitalization rates for younger children. They're around one 363 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: in a hundred thousand of the population at any given time. 364 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: That's substantially less than adults. I mean, it's I think 365 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: it's about a twenty rate of adults, and so it's 366 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: it's honestly, this comes down to it. It seems to 367 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: be less about the actual vaccine itself. And really this 368 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: is more of a statistics problem where you know, to 369 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: get a result out of this, whether your visor or Maderna, 370 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: you need some you know, meaningful number of kids to 371 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: get sick enough to be hospitalized um in your placebo arm, 372 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: and then you know none in the vaccine arm. And 373 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: because those events are so rare, and because you know 374 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: you're you're doing this with only a few thousand kids, 375 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: it becomes really hard to detect those in a way 376 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: that is statistically meaningful, and so you run these trials, 377 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: you see the antibody response that tells you that, hey, 378 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: this looks like it works the same way it does 379 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: in adults, and that's good news, and this should be 380 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: generally true for kids. But when you're looking for that 381 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: type of real world efficacy where you need these real, 382 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: really really rare events to happen in a defined population 383 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: in a limited period of time, it's just really hard 384 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: to get that and then not have it be statistical 385 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: noise um And so I think that has really been 386 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: the challenge. This is a trial design and stats problem. 387 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to be as much um of a 388 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: problem with the drugs themselves sort with the vaccines themselves, 389 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: but again, it's just really hard to measure. All right. Well, 390 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: thanks for working through the complexities of all this as 391 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: a mom with kids in that age group. Very anxious 392 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: to see more progress here, Drew Armstrong, thank you. I 393 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: want to continue the conversation out and talk about how 394 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: the pandemic has impacted the healthcare landscape. I want to 395 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: bring in Tera this one often RUPA Health founder and CEO, 396 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: along with tallya Goldberg partner at Bessemer Venture Partners, partners 397 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Roup of Health just raised twenty million dollars in their 398 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: series A led by Bessemer. Thank you both so much 399 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: for joining us, Tara, I want to talk a little 400 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: bit for us about what RUPA does that you focus 401 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: on specialty lab tests, which, to be fair, you know, 402 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: often get ignored by traditional doctors, to traditional Western medicine, 403 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: they're not covered by insurance. What is the gap that 404 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: RUPA is looking to fill here? Yeah, so the gap 405 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: is really one piece of it is the type of 406 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: lab tests that we give doctors access to. So our 407 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: platform allows doctors to have access to over three thousand 408 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: different specially lab tests. And when we say that, we're 409 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: talking about DNA testing, microbiome testing, advanced hormone panels and 410 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: things like that. And so our broader mission is to 411 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: make personalized root cause approach to met us and accessible 412 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: and available to every person on the planet. And you know, 413 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: we can talk a little bit more about the gap 414 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: and how we're being treated, but what's happening on a 415 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: macro level is this shift towards patients demanding more holistic 416 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: and personalized care. Talia, let's talk a little bit more 417 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: about that. Obviously, you know some people are learning the 418 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: hard way they need to take be their own advocates 419 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: when it comes to healthcare. You know, where do you 420 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: see weaknesses in the health care system and how do 421 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: you see this as an opportunity to address those I think, well, 422 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: first off, thank you so much for having us on 423 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: the show. It's great to be here UM, and we're 424 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: really excited to have let the series day and rub 425 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: up because the shift that Tara just described, of the 426 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: shift towards root cause health and personalized care UM, there's 427 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: enormous consumer demand and there's been a lack of accessibility 428 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: and availability for this sort of testing, some of which 429 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: is newer, newer agnostics and newer types of tests that 430 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: are emerging, things like genomics microbiome testing UM that we're 431 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: just starting to get really great data on and be 432 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: able to use in a personalized and holistic manner. And 433 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: as all of these specialty tests have emerged and there's 434 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: growing demand and their importance in the landscape UM has swelled, 435 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: there's been a challenge and actually accessing those tests and 436 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: synthesizing what the data means and how to interpret the 437 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: diagnoses UM and actually taking action. And so that's where 438 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: we see enormous potential for Ruba to make root cause 439 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: care just normal healthcare, uh that every patient and every 440 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: consumer has access to Tara healthcare, and our needs have 441 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: evolved dramatically through this pandemic. I'm curious for your thoughts 442 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: about where we are in this pandemic and the decision 443 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: at this point to live with the virus but keep businesses, 444 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: for example, open, even though we're not necessarily at the 445 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: final end. Is that really the right call. That's a 446 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: tough question, and I think it's um it's tough for 447 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: any one person to answer, and I think we're seeing 448 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: that with the broader, broader government and state by state 449 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: regulations as well. I think one of the things that's 450 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: been interesting in in our world, in our field is 451 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: actually this potential like continuing epidemic of long COVID and 452 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: how we're actually going to be treating that in the 453 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: day to day because by this point, many people have 454 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: actually experienced experience the disease, but they have they have 455 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: not they have not been rid of all of the 456 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: symptoms yet, and so one I think struggle we're going 457 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: to have is how to actually treat all of these 458 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: people who are experiencing these long COVID symptoms, Talia, how 459 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: do you think about that? I mean, obviously, you know 460 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: we're in kind of a whole new world. We're gonna 461 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: be living with an epidemic for potentially years. What does 462 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: that mean from a healthcare perspective? And how is that 463 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: influence where you and Bessemer are placing your bets. It's 464 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: had an enormous impact on the investment landscape. One of 465 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: the major changes that has happened has obviously been the 466 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: adoption and acceleration of at home testing, which plays in 467 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: really well with a lot of the momentum that we 468 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: see with Rupa health UM, as well as with the 469 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: availability of telehealth and accessibility of that, and I think 470 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: making again healthcare more affordable, more accessible UM, and more holistic, 471 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: taking into account mental health, physical health, UM, and someone's 472 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: environment is is really important. And we're starting to really 473 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: see the UM the potential of some of the new 474 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: technologies and new models of care that are emerging really 475 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: on display throughout COVID and that's what's been super exciting 476 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: for us and has been behind a lot of our 477 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: investments over the past two years. All very important UM. 478 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: Tara vis Wanathan, Rupa Health founder and CEO along Talia Goldberg, 479 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: partner at Bessemer, will keep our eye on you both. 480 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: Coming up where bitcoin goes from here? Speaking with Anthony 481 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: pomp Liano also known as POMP, to talk about the 482 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: crypto landscape, the war on Ukraine, and what institutional adoptive 483 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: adoption of cryptocurrency looks like over the next few years. 484 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: More on that next. This is Bloomberg time now for 485 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: our crypto rapport with Bitcoin while staying in its range 486 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 1: after breaking for a bit, not going much higher or lower, 487 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: staying in that tight range ever since the start of 488 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: the year. Joining us now our crypto contributor sale Bostick 489 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: with more shnale. Why isn't it breaking out? Yeah, that's 490 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: that's really the real question here. We are back above 491 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: for three hundred dollars, but we have been about in 492 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: a fifteen thousand dollar range since the beginning of the year. 493 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: Here we have not yet hit even the highs of 494 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: this year. So the big question here is what will 495 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: give bitcoin another leg higher? One question that we will 496 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: have answered by our next guest, Anthony Pompliano from POMP Investments. 497 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. What is keeping 498 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: bitcoin from breaking out this year the way it had 499 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: last year. Yeah, one of the big things that is 500 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: very obvious with bitcoin is that the supply demand, uh 501 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 1: that mechanisms are very well understood, and so you can 502 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: actually go ahead and check on the on chain metrics 503 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: where the supply is and how a liquid and what 504 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: we're watching is exactly what we actually saw in and 505 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: then again in the summer right before the big run up, 506 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: is that more and more long term holders are acquiring bitcoin, 507 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: they're taking it off of exchanges, Miners are acquiring bitcoin, 508 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: they are not selling what they're mining, and so you're 509 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: getting this highly illiquid supply that once a catalyst hits, 510 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: regardless of what it is, whether it comes from the 511 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: macro environment, whether it comes from a big buyer, bitcoin 512 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: could be one of many many things that catalyst will 513 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: go ahead and kind of ignite this underlying a liquid market, 514 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: and I would expect to see a very big movement 515 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: the bitcoin price. Now when that happens is the big question. 516 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: Will that happen in the coming weeks, will it take 517 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: months to happen. Nobody knows. But whatever we get these 518 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: lulls where people are to supply off the market, it's 519 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: becoming highly liquid. That's where we see those parabox moves 520 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: happen shortly afterwards. You know, I'm kind of curious, not 521 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: just about liquid markets generally, I'm curious about the private 522 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 1: markets here. You had been tweeting about the board at 523 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: yah Club Club creator you Go Labs raising four d 524 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in the seed round, a big seed round. 525 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: Why do you think that the private space is garnering 526 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: so much money? And what do you think about the 527 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: private valuations here? I think there's two things happening. One, 528 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: if you're investing in bonds, you're losing. If you're holding cash, 529 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: you're losing. So people have to go to the private market. 530 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: They have to push out on the risk curb. That's 531 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: exactly what they're doing. The second thing is this is 532 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: a generational trait. If you want to get asymmetric returns, 533 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: you have to go and invest in bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. 534 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: You have to invest in the infrastructure, you have to 535 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: invest in the liquid assets. And that's what every single 536 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: great investor is doing. And so the ones that are 537 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: still sitting out from this market, frankly, they're just going 538 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: to be left behind. And I think that seeing this 539 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: foreigner fifty million dollar round is a perfect example. If 540 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: you look at the Yuga Labs financials, their mind blow. 541 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: These guys are operating with a margin, their company is 542 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: less than two years old, and they've got nine figures 543 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: of revenue. Anybody on the planet who would see those 544 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: types of financial metrics would be excited about investing this 545 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: type of business with this type of momentum. And so 546 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: I think that there's plenty of people who point at 547 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: the industry, they laugh, they don't understand it. But what 548 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: I do know is that the world's wealthiest people not 549 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: the future wealthiest. The world's wealthiest people today are crypto investors. 550 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: And my guess is that over time, the Force four 551 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: hundred is gonna be dominated by bitcoin and crypto investors. 552 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: And so if you want to be part of that, 553 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: you should get into the industry. Given the prominent role 554 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: that crypto is playing in the war on Ukraine and 555 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: especially in providing humanitarian aid along with President Biden's executive order, 556 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: why don't you think bitcoin has broken out in a 557 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: bigger way? Well, Bitcoin's up twenty since Russia invaded Ukraine, 558 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: and so ultimately people tend to look at since it's 559 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: so volatile, it's hard to lose track of what's happened 560 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: in just a matter of weeks, but it's it's outperformed 561 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: in three other assets that people would look at in 562 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: these types of scenarios, we just don't think about that 563 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: has been trading in that range. And so I think 564 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: that watching what has happened on the Ukraine situation is 565 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: a perfect example. The raised over a hundred million dollars 566 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: from bitcoin and crypto investors around the world. That's more 567 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: than most countries gave to Ukraine. And so when you 568 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: start to see this, how you do it? They literally 569 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: just posted a wallet address on the Internet, and that's 570 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: just the donations directly to the government. As Alex glad 571 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: Steams from the Human Rights Foundation pointed out, that doesn't 572 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: even include the NGOs or any of the non government 573 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: type organizations that also got those donations. And so I 574 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: ultimately think that what people are waking up to is 575 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: these payment rails are superior to every other payment rail 576 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: in the world. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are good for business, 577 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: and that's true for individuals, that's true for corporations, that's 578 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: true for nation states, and whether we're talking about nation 579 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: states like El Salvador, the United States, where the president 580 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: and his administration is now said he wants to be 581 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: a global leader, or we're talking about a country that 582 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: is literally being invaded by a nuclear armed adversary. Every 583 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: single person needs this technology, and if you don't adopt it, 584 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: somebody else will and you will be at a disadvantage. Now, 585 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: to new investors, it's really bitcoin, evarium and everyone else. 586 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: There are thousands of other cryptocurrencies out there. I recently 587 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: spoke with Michael Saylor of micro Strategy, the world's biggest 588 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: corporate holder of bitcoin as far as we know, and asked, 589 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: if we're gonna see massive consolidation in this market, how 590 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: many cryptocurrencies actually exist five years from now. Take a 591 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say. This is a 592 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: rotation from an entrepreneurial driven industry to an institutionally driven industry. 593 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: And we're sitting at this point where we're crossing the chasm, 594 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: and the question is which and which on trepreneurs will 595 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: be institutionalized income public. There will be a shakeout, and 596 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: obviously crypto current sees are not going to be around 597 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: here in a decade. What do you think the crypto 598 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: industry looks like in five years, how many cryptocurrencies actually 599 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: survive and which ones are they? Yeah, look, I think 600 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: that he's dead on right. Anytime you have brand new technology, 601 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: have tons of intellectual capital and financial capital flowing into 602 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: an industry like this, you're going to get a lot 603 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: of folks who are experimenting. They're trying things, but the 604 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: truth is that most of them don't last. And if 605 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: we go back to the late nineties as an example, 606 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: all the ideas were right straining music, food delivery, et cetera. 607 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: But those first iterations, most of them did not work, 608 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: and it took another decade before the infrastructure was in place. 609 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: People understand the technologies. There was the consumer behavior kind 610 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: of transition, and I think the same thing is going 611 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: to happen here now. The beauty of this is something 612 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: like bitcoins, specifically as a digital currency. This is not 613 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 1: the first attempt at at this. For over forty years, 614 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: the cipher punk movement has been trying to create digital currency, 615 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: and finally on iteration eight nine ten, whatever Bitcoin ended 616 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 1: up being now is actually struck and is receiving global adoption. 617 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: The same thing is likely to happen in many of 618 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: these other ideas is just gonna take a while for 619 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: us to get there. So you're somebody that's moved to Miami, 620 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: a place that you know, the mayor has been very 621 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: openly accepting cryptocurrencies in the community. To what extent pomp 622 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: are you seeing other cities and states truly adopt cryptocurrencies 623 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: as a form of payment, as a form of ways 624 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: of accepting taxes, uh and welcoming some more of the 625 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: community there. Yeah. Look, I think the Miami is the 626 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: shining example of what freedom and leadership is in the 627 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: United States today. This is the last place in the 628 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: world where socialism is going to take hold. And I 629 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: think that what we're watching play out here is a 630 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: resurgence in the fact that leadership does matter. And so 631 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: what Mayor Swore has has done is he has taken 632 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: a city that most people frankly didn't even know existed 633 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: outside of Miami Beach and kind of the South Beast 634 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: tourism area, and he has revitalized by putting a flag 635 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: in the ground and basically promising one thing, I'm going 636 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: you cheer for your success and do everything I can 637 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: to help you be successful. And the sad part is 638 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: that that is a message that is exactly a hundred 639 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: and eight degrees degrees different than most people have been 640 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: hearing in places like New York City or in various 641 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: cities across California. And so I think that bitcoin is 642 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: a big part of that story, it's not the only 643 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: part of the story. And what you're now watching is 644 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: that politicians are realized, both at the local, state and 645 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: federal level, that bitcoin is good for their campaigns, it's 646 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: good for business. I have had literally tens of different 647 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: politicians who are running through various positions across the political 648 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: spectrum in this next election reach out, and they're leading 649 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: messages on pro bitcoin, on pro crypto. But that is 650 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: no longer something that makes you stand out. If you 651 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: are anti these technologies, you're basically going against tens of 652 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: millions of Americans where they're choosing to store their Well, 653 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: you will not get elected. And if you're anti crypto 654 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: and you're in a current seat, you will be voted out. 655 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: And I think politicians are both looking at this as 656 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: a curate and stick. It's a character because you'll get 657 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: the support of the community if you're pro the technology, 658 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: and it's a stick because if you are Antibeast Technologies, 659 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: they'll meet you to death on Twitter and they'll chat alls. Alright, 660 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: no room for interpretation there. Uh, Anthony pomp Liano Pomp, 661 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: as you're known from Pomp Investments. Thank you. Along with 662 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: Shannali bask Let's talk China tech. Now. Ten Cent the 663 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: latest company in China to embrace a new paradigm of 664 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: stricter government oversight. Shares of the social media and gaming 665 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: giant dropped after it posted single digit sales growth for 666 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: the first time since listing in two thousand four. Now 667 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: ten Cents saying it's time for an era of healthy 668 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: growth are Ludlow joins us now to unpack at all 669 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: that is a huge change. Ed, Yeah, it is, and 670 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot going on right. Growth has slowed down. 671 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 1: The advertising market is difficult. Ten Cent is a social 672 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: media company. The gaming environment in China very hard, the 673 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: regulatory crackdown as pause licensing. But the reality is what 674 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: ten Cents saying is we can no longer basically fund 675 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: losses through the capital markets and to drive that high 676 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: rate of growth. I mean, just look at that chart 677 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: on your screen, and they're kind of acknowledging that in 678 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: the environment, the Chinese government have put in place, there's 679 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: a new normal, which is one that they play ball 680 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: in and that it will actually help the company to 681 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: be more stable, have stable, healthy growth as you put 682 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: it in quoting the company, but he should also help 683 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: stabilize margins too. So what comes next here? Could it 684 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: be other companies saying they're also in for an era 685 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: of healthy growth? Yeah, I mean Ali Barber was kind 686 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: of the first big of the tech giants in China 687 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: to say, yep, we agree with this kind of position 688 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: from the Chinese government of cracking down. Ten cents followed 689 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: suit and in specific cases ten cents talking about working 690 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: much more closely with the government. So, for example, one 691 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: bright spot for the business is it's fintech harm and 692 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: you know they have known to make acquisitions, and they're 693 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: talking about potentially having a separate financial holding company for 694 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: that business, about working closer with the Chinese government. The 695 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: other half is kind of the outlook, right, the Chinese 696 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: government has changed its tune of late and been signaling 697 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,919 Speaker 1: they'll be more supportive that this crackdown on their tech 698 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: companies that's been going for a year could ease. So 699 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: then what comes next, Well, they talk about working closely 700 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: with the government on gaming for example, where they have 701 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: a pipeline of games ready to go, but they've not 702 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: been able to bring them to market because of the 703 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: licensing holes. So it's a kind of old playball with 704 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: the government, kind of game in the best interests of 705 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,839 Speaker 1: future growth, and you wonder what the additional pain points are. 706 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: Thank you that does it For this edition of bloomber Technology, 707 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: join us tomorrow. We've been joined by Kathy Gao of 708 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: Sapphire Ventures along with Ross Gerber talk all Things Disney, 709 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 1: as well as Spencer Bogart of Blockchain Capital and don't 710 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: forget to check out our new podcast. You can find 711 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: it on the terminal of course, and with Apple, Spotify, 712 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: I Heart, and wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emily 713 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: Changing in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg