1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,199
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, Death Investigator, Professor Forensics,

2
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,680
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. Scott Morgan has been on over ten

3
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: thousand death scenes and now he takes a part in

4
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: a way that only he can the homicides that we

5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,840
Speaker 1: are all investigating. Whether you're in the thick of it

6
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 1: with the police department or the FBI, or you're an

7
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,840
Speaker 1: arm chair sleuth, Joe Scott Morgan will give you answers

8
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: Body Bags Joe Scott Morgan. Following Subscribe now on the

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you've listened to your podcast.

10
00:00:54,160 --> 00:01:20,199
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Dark Still Waters, Spanish moss,

11
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,840
Speaker 1: live oak trees. When I think of a swamp, I

12
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 1: don't see something ugly. I see something beautiful. But there's

13
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 1: one swamp in America that's hidden a secret, and finally

14
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,639
Speaker 1: that secret's been revealed. We're gonna talk about Brian Laundry today.

15
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs back

16
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 1: with me again. Today is my friend Jackie Howard, Executive

17
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what's come

18
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: to light now regarding the death of Brian Laundry. Joe,

19
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: we now know that Brian Laundry committed suicide in the

20
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: swamps there close to his home. Chris and ROBERTA. Laundry

21
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: were informed that the cause of death was a gunshot

22
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,799
Speaker 1: wound to the head. Now, we never knew specifically that

23
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry had taken a gun from the home. That

24
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 1: was not released until just a few days ago. Chris

25
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: and Roberto Laundry had surrendered five or six guns that

26
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,079
Speaker 1: they stored in their home to the FBI when Brian

27
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: went missing. That was not released to the public, nor

28
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 1: was the fact that a gun was missing. According to

29
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 1: their attorney, they did not want to cause a panic

30
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,840
Speaker 1: in the community. It was released to the public that

31
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: a skull was found, a partial skull, I should be specific,

32
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 1: But at that point we did not know how Brian died. Again,

33
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: we do now know that he died of a gunshot

34
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 1: wound to the head. Explain this all to me, Joe,

35
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 1: because I have so many questions. Is the reason we

36
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,799
Speaker 1: found a partial skull because of the injury and the

37
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: gunshot itself? Or is this due to animals? You know, Jackie,

38
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 1: a lot of folks might not be aware of this,

39
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,519
Speaker 1: but you know, suicide it outpaces homicide in this country.

40
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 1: You think that there's homesides going on all over the place,

41
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of homesides, but it's almost

42
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 1: it gets beat almost three to one. All right, So

43
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 1: we work a lot of suicides and medical legal death investigation,

44
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 1: and the number one cause when we're talking about this,

45
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: it's going to be self inflicted gunshot ones. It's not

46
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: surprising to me that when they finally did discover his

47
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: body that they only had a partial skull at that

48
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: point in time. And the reason is is that you

49
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: have this remarkable dynamic that takes place with a firearm

50
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 1: and somebody you know, placing this tightly to their head.

51
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: This is what's commonly referred to as a press contact

52
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 1: gunshot one. Sometimes you'll hear old timers refer to it

53
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 1: as a hard contact, and that means that if you'll

54
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: take your finger and kind of place it into the

55
00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 1: palm of your hand, your index finger, and press it

56
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 1: as tightly as you can. Generally, this is what is

57
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 1: occurring on the side of the head or in the forehead,

58
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,479
Speaker 1: you know, where we normally see self inflicted gunshot ones

59
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 1: take place and when that seal is created and that

60
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,480
Speaker 1: individual is pressing so very tightly, there's a couple of

61
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,560
Speaker 1: things that come out of the muzzle. At weapon. You've

62
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 1: got to projectile a bullet, if you will, and it's

63
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 1: creating the whole. All right. I know this is very

64
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 1: simplistic sounding, but it's creating the actual hole. But people

65
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,600
Speaker 1: don't understand what happens after that. It's not just the

66
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: projectile that's disruptive. In this case, you have a tremendous

67
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 1: amount superheated gas that comes out of the end of

68
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 1: that muscle. As a matter of fact, at nighttime when

69
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,920
Speaker 1: people fireway, it looks like there's a ball of flame

70
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 1: coming out of the end of that weapon, and there is,

71
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: and there's rapidly expanding gas. Remember even when we were

72
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: taking physical science classes back in the seventh eighth grade,

73
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: what do they say about hot air? Hot air expands

74
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 1: and guess what, it's destructive. So when you interject this

75
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 1: or inject this into a skull, it blows the skull apart.

76
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 1: And that's what you have happening. That's that's why that

77
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 1: when they came upon these partial remains, Remember they were

78
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 1: talking about partial remains initially they only had a partial skull,

79
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 1: and the reason is is that his head, his skull

80
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 1: actually came apart at that moment time when he actuated

81
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,920
Speaker 1: that trigger on that firearm. So when you say that

82
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,040
Speaker 1: the gas, as you said, explodes or expands, you're not

83
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 1: saying that the gas actually goes into the skull and

84
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 1: goes from the inside out. You're just saying the pressure

85
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,160
Speaker 1: build up from the outside. Well, it's it's an internal

86
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: event relative to when that primer is struck by the

87
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,479
Speaker 1: firing pen on that weapon. There's a little ignition that

88
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,239
Speaker 1: takes place. And this is kind of a brief little

89
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 1: firearms tutorial. You've got a little primer cap in the

90
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 1: base of that bullet and that initiates the actual firing

91
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 1: sequence when it's struck. There, that's the first explosion. The

92
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 1: second explosion takes place when that spark is transferred to

93
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 1: what's called the propellant. There's another group of powder that's

94
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: in there. And listen, when you've got a tight scale,

95
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,559
Speaker 1: when you have a tight seal, in this particular case,

96
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: you've got this rapidly expanding hot air and it's got

97
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 1: to go somewhere. Now, the individual that is pressing the

98
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: weapon to their skulls has there's no way to ventilate

99
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 1: it other than four word. And so when the bullet

100
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: the projectile actually bores into the side of that skull

101
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 1: through that that bony plate, which is what it's referred

102
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 1: to as that gas is going to seek that little

103
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 1: hole that's being created by the bullet. And that's why

104
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: in a lot of these cases you see this just

105
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,280
Speaker 1: mammoth trauma that takes place with these press contact gunshot wounds.

106
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: And here's here's kind of another little fact that people

107
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: don't understand about skulls when it comes to gunshot ones.

108
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 1: When when we're being formed in the embryotic stage, you know,

109
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 1: our skulls literally come together, all right. They they kind

110
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: of seal, and you know, people have heard about things

111
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 1: like with babies the soft spot fought now, all right,

112
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: and that that hardens over over a period of time.

113
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 1: It's called ossification. When the skull seals, it seals what

114
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 1: are along lines that are referred to as suture lines,

115
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 1: and it's it's a miracle of nature. When you see it,

116
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: it looks like locking teeth and you've got these multiple

117
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 1: plates of bone that kind of come together. Let's think

118
00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 1: of that's real simple. You got your frontal bone, which

119
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: is where your forehead is. You got your temporal bone

120
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: everybody's heard of their temple. It's kind of down low

121
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: and forward of the forward of the ears. And then

122
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 1: you've got the parietal or parieteal they call, and that

123
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: makes up kind of the area above your ears. And

124
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: then you have the occiput or the accipital area, which

125
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: is that thick bony prominence on the back of you,

126
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 1: and it's all sealed together. It almost looks like if

127
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 1: you've ever seen fault lines, you know, when they talk

128
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: about earthquakes, it's it's kind of along these little lines

129
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,199
Speaker 1: like this, and they're kind of wavy, but those are

130
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 1: weak points at that point in time, so the gas

131
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: is going to try to expand, and lots of times

132
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,720
Speaker 1: you'll I have literally seen skulls open up, almost like

133
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 1: the petal of a flower, think of a tulip, kind

134
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: of coming apart, you know, fracture many times along along

135
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 1: these suiture lines, and it's it's quite fascinating to see.

136
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 1: But you know, you generally only see this in self

137
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 1: inflicted gunshot ones because let's think about it, in order

138
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 1: to form and this is key to this investigation, Jackie,

139
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,959
Speaker 1: because the people are going to say, they're going to

140
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: say that, how do you know this in a homicide? Well,

141
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that one of the things we

142
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: look for from a forensic standpoint is when you press

143
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: that muzzle against the skull, you have to be in

144
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: a position where you're willing to do that and you

145
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 1: maintain that specific tension on that area. If he had

146
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,560
Speaker 1: a weapon that was being placed against his skull, you're

147
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,680
Speaker 1: not by someone else. You're not going to lean into it, Jackie,

148
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,559
Speaker 1: You're gonna shot pull your head away, right. So the tighter,

149
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 1: the tighter you press it, the more damage that's going

150
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 1: to happen, not necessarily from the projectile, but from this gas.

151
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 1: Because look, the gas, just by virtue of physical science,

152
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 1: it has to be released, it has to expand that's

153
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: the nature of heated gas. And when it's injected into

154
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 1: that little port, that little hole that is being created,

155
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 1: that cavitation by the bullet, it's massive destruction at that

156
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 1: point in time, which part actually kills you, Joe, the bullet,

157
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,560
Speaker 1: the destruction of the brain. I mean, is there a

158
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,440
Speaker 1: way at this point to tell or is it just

159
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 1: kind of encapsulated in one action. There's two parts to

160
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 1: it and the trauma. Listen, if you were just standing

161
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,839
Speaker 1: out in space and someone and when I say space,

162
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 1: I don't mean like outer space. I'm just talking about

163
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 1: in free roaming space. And someone aims a projectile or

164
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 1: aims a weapon at an individual. Let's don't say you

165
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,680
Speaker 1: are right. Let's let's say yeah, Nancy. Nancy kills me often.

166
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:56,439
Speaker 1: And let's say you all right. An individual aims of

167
00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: firearm at another individual from a distance, and they hit you.

168
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,040
Speaker 1: They hit an individual center mass with that projectile inside

169
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: of the skull. The projectile is going to kill you,

170
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: all right. And I know people at home right now

171
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,439
Speaker 1: are rolling their eyes. They're saying, well, of course it's

172
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 1: going to kill you. Got shot in the head. Well,

173
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: not everybody dies. It gets shot in the head, but

174
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 1: a penetrative injury with a high velocity bullet going into

175
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: the brain, it's going to cavitate and destroy the brain

176
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,200
Speaker 1: to the point where it's not going to be able

177
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 1: to function. So nine out of ten times, the individual

178
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 1: with a GSW the head is probably going to pass on.

179
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 1: So as you're telling me, is as that bullet penetrates

180
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 1: the brain as well as all of that gas and force.

181
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,079
Speaker 1: It basically turns the brain into mush. Yes, you're absolutely right,

182
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,199
Speaker 1: it will turn the brain to mush. And it's not

183
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's not mush in the sense that I'm

184
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,280
Speaker 1: going to be kind of graphic here, but this is

185
00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:01,119
Speaker 1: body phacks, right, It's not like a mass of mash potatus.

186
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,599
Speaker 1: All right, it doesn't look like that in the autopsy

187
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 1: room when the brain is actually removed from the vault

188
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,839
Speaker 1: of the skull. All right, you can remove it in

189
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 1: essentially one piece most of the time, but it's going

190
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,720
Speaker 1: to be greatly fragmented. You're gonna have a tremendous amount

191
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,319
Speaker 1: of hemorrhage that's in this area, and you'll see what

192
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: actual forensic pathologists they refer to these as gas injuries.

193
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,680
Speaker 1: Where you have this kind of ripping apartment in. What

194
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 1: will happen, and this is kind of fascinating, is that

195
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: there will be gas injuries that will not be associated

196
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,439
Speaker 1: with the actual projectile injury. You know, like if an

197
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 1: individual were to shoot themselves in the right temple and

198
00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: this is a press contact, you're going to see a

199
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of trauma. It goes without saying to that

200
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 1: specific area, but you can actually see gas injuries because

201
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,640
Speaker 1: it kind of expands out. You can see gas injuries

202
00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 1: on the back side of the brain as well, where

203
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 1: the bullet never even touches. Jackie. That's that's the kind

204
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,680
Speaker 1: of force that you're talking about here. It's a it's

205
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,360
Speaker 1: a ripping, it's more of a shredding kind of thing

206
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,120
Speaker 1: that takes place. And it's not just the what's called

207
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 1: the gray matter and the white matter. What you're also

208
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: going to see is all the little tiny vessels that

209
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: are rising up out of the floor of the skull,

210
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 1: the optic nerves, which are very there. You can appreciate

211
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,679
Speaker 1: them when you when you take the brain out there,

212
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,599
Speaker 1: they're glaring when you see them. All of that is

213
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,840
Speaker 1: going to be disrupted as well, and so you'll see

214
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 1: these little tiny areas of hemorrhage all over the place

215
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,439
Speaker 1: and you say, well, what in the world could that be, Well,

216
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 1: that's gas injury that you're seeing. So it does mass destruction.

217
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: That's why when people sustain self inflicted gunshot wounds, it's

218
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: it's very very difficult for them to survive these things,

219
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,200
Speaker 1: even even if they get them to the emergency room,

220
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,679
Speaker 1: even if they can get them into surgery, and hey,

221
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 1: even beyond surgery, if they get them onto ICU and

222
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,959
Speaker 1: they put them in a coma, it's it's very, very

223
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: difficult for people to make it through after they sustained

224
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 1: one of these injuries. Do you see these same kind

225
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 1: of injuries on let's say somebody was going to shoot

226
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: themselves in the shoulder. Do you see these same kind

227
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: of gas injuries on other parts of the body as well? Yeah,

228
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 1: you can, but there's there's something about the skull. It's

229
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,040
Speaker 1: not it's not the same. Let's say, I love the

230
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 1: example that's talked about relative to the shoulder. Let's take

231
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: that for an instance. If you have an individual that's

232
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 1: going to take the muzzle of a weapon and place

233
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: it tightly against the surface of their of their skin

234
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 1: overlying you know, their their chest there, and they pull

235
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 1: the trigger, the gas in that particular instance is being

236
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 1: dispersed into a lot of soft tissue you've got underlying.

237
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: You know, if you're talking about your shoulder, you've got

238
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 1: the top side of the pectoralis muscle, You've got all

239
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 1: these muscle groups that are involving around the collar bone.

240
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 1: In all these areas, and then you have this kind

241
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: of network of bones that are through here. You know,

242
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: you've got your your collar bone, Uh, that's there. You've

243
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 1: got the connection with the scapula on the backside, which

244
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 1: is of course your your shoulder blade, and uh, you're

245
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: the upper portion of the humorous all these all these places.

246
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 1: But what what they don't have that the skull does

247
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: have is this kind of sealed environment. You know, it's

248
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:40,240
Speaker 1: it's almost as if the cranial vault is a separate

249
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of a separate entity in and of itself

250
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 1: as it applies to the skeleton. There's no other bone

251
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 1: like it. It's a network of bones that are tightly

252
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 1: fused together. Remember we talked about those sure suture lines.

253
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 1: It's tightly fused together, and it creates this kind of um,

254
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: this kind of container for the brain, if you will.

255
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 1: And it's tied, I mean, it's very well sealed. And

256
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 1: so the gas as it expands into the shoulder. With

257
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: the example that you gave, it's going to disperse through

258
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 1: the soft tissue in the cranium. You don't have that.

259
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 1: You've got your scalp that you'll see. But with the

260
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: scalp it'll literally come away from the skull and then

261
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 1: kind of settle back down. But you don't have anything

262
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 1: else that's going to absorb that energy. It's going to

263
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: be dispersed into the sealed environment, and that's the reason

264
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 1: the head comes apart. And one of the really interesting

265
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 1: things that we look for that is if we still

266
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 1: have soft tissue, which in the case of Brian Laundry

267
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: what it sounds like they might not have had, but

268
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: I don't know that for a fact. You'll get these

269
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 1: little injuries to the scalp now I'm talking about soft tissue.

270
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 1: You get these little injuries to the scalp and jack

271
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: you know what they're referred to as. They're called stell

272
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 1: eate injuries. And the reason they're called stell eate injuries

273
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 1: is think about every image you've ever seen of like

274
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 1: at Christmas time when people do renderings of the Star

275
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 1: of Bethlehem and it's kind of got that the long

276
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,879
Speaker 1: tail on it, and it's got the short little arms

277
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 1: over to the left and the right, and it's got

278
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,880
Speaker 1: another short little arm that goes up. The injuries actually

279
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 1: look like that their star shape. So forensic pathologists have

280
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,639
Speaker 1: adopted this term stellate, and you'll see that on the

281
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,959
Speaker 1: surface of the skull. And the stellate injuries only occur

282
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,880
Speaker 1: over the surface where you have tissue that's covering very

283
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 1: closely over a flat, bony surface. The only other place

284
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: that you might see it in the body is going

285
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 1: to be over the sternum, which is, you know, a

286
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,640
Speaker 1: flat bone that we have in the center of the chest,

287
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: you'll see a stellate injury. But again this only comes

288
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: about as a result of pressing that muzzle, and the

289
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: reason it forms this star shape, if you will, is

290
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 1: that the skin with this injection of hot gas is

291
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,199
Speaker 1: also ripping and tearing. It just so happens that it

292
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 1: has a distinctive pattern when you see it a stellate injury.

293
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Yeah, we're talking about

294
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,920
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry and you know, one of the things that

295
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 1: really strikes me about this case is the body is

296
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: fascinating and what they found relative to his remains or

297
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: what did actually remain of his body. But it's this

298
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 1: hostile environment. You know, Jackie, he was found in a swamp.

299
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 1: Well you would know about swamps, Joe. You know you

300
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 1: started your death investigation career out in New Orleans, and

301
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: there's lots of those kind of conditions in Louisiana, So

302
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,199
Speaker 1: everybody wants to know. They found some remains of Brian Laundry.

303
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 1: They've not found a full skeleton, and they found his

304
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: skull partial skull again, so we have partial remains, so

305
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 1: we believe there's alligators there. Joe, how were we able

306
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: to find anything? Shouldn't the skull have been gone to?

307
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: That's the question, ain't it? Since the search for Brin

308
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 1: Laundry started, you know, everybody was looking for him and whatnot,

309
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: and they talked about all these hostile environments he was

310
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 1: going to, and just on the side I have to say,

311
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 1: you know, it turns out he was almost right in

312
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: plain view. I guess, you know, out there in the swamps.

313
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: But swamp can be a tricky thing. It changes day

314
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: to day. You think that it's a static environment, it's not.

315
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: Water levels change fully, it's changes all those sorts of things.

316
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 1: With him being found out in this kind of semi aquatic,

317
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: mucky kind of environment, it adds an entire different level

318
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: to the dynamic. Remember what they were saying in press conferences.

319
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: The police were coming out and they were talking about

320
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 1: what they were encountering out there. You had all all

321
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 1: manner of snakes. You know, you've got cotton mouths out there,

322
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 1: You've got copper heads and rattlesnakes and everything else. But yeah,

323
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 1: the apex predator in this environment, keep in mind, we

324
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: are in Florida, is going to be an alligator. And

325
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, just like you know you had mentioned I

326
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: started my career in South Louisiana. Well, you had to

327
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: contend with the mississipp River and all the swamps and

328
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: the marshes and Gulf of Mexico, and yeah, we had

329
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 1: a lot of gators down in that area. And I've

330
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: worked cases involved gators. But what set this case apart

331
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 1: from me and the reason from Jump Street I suspected

332
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: that a gator wasn't involved in this was the fact

333
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: that when gators feast on a body, and it doesn't

334
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: have to be a human body. When they you know,

335
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: they can go up on a bank and you know,

336
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: you've seen these these videos of them where they just

337
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: kind of lay still in the water till like some

338
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: little deer comes up to the side of the water,

339
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: a raccoon or something. They'll just reach up and grab

340
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: it and pull it under. But they also do a

341
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 1: thing called a spin, and that actually kills the prey

342
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: and people, you know, I think that they're under this

343
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: impression that an alligator will just immediately eat whatever the

344
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: victim is. That's not the way this operates. The nature

345
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: of an alligator when they take a prey is they

346
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: will spin it after they snatch it off the bank.

347
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: And they're an aquatic animal. They love they loved being

348
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: the water. They'll sun themselves, but they loved being the water.

349
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: And then you know what they do before they ever

350
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: catch the prey. Lots of times they'll they'll back up

351
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: to a mud bank and they take that huge tail

352
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 1: and they kind of swish it back and forth. They

353
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 1: swish it back and forth. You know what they're doing.

354
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,959
Speaker 1: They're actually creating a meat locker, and it's fascinating. We

355
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 1: would find these in South Louisiana many times. Friend that

356
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: actually fell through one one time and he landed on

357
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: top of dead deer carcasses. It's terrified he'd been fishing.

358
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: And what they do with their victims is that after

359
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: they kill the victim, they go back to these little

360
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: lockers they have set up and they kind of push

361
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: them under the bank into this meat locker, and people say, well,

362
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: what the world they do that. I'll tell you why

363
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: alligators can't chew. Might not know that they don't chew.

364
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: They actually have to wait for remains to decompose so

365
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: that they can actually rip them apart and swallow them.

366
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: If you ever see the action of an alligator's mouth,

367
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: it's not something that even like a dog. You know,

368
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: dogs will chew on things. They alligators generally don't do that.

369
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: They chomp. You know that that's associated with alligators. We

370
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: hear that all the time. They chomp, they chomp, they grip,

371
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: they rip, and they swallow. Now, you can take like

372
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: a chicken carcass that you get at the grocery store,

373
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: and I've seen this, you know, an alligator shows and

374
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: whatnot in South Louisiana, and you can throw it to

375
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: an alligator and they'll it'll go into their mouth and

376
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: they'll just swallow the thing. They don't sit there chew

377
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: on the thing. But when you're talking about the body

378
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: of a large deer or even a small deer, or

379
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: certainly a human being, they're not going to eat that

380
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: individual immediately. And so when I began to hear that

381
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: they had found Brian Laundry's body in a visible area. Now, granted,

382
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: he was probably underwater, you know. They talked about the

383
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: water level of dropped and everything, and I knew that

384
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: they had remains. I knew that he wasn't buried beneath

385
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: the bank, which is something that you would commonly see

386
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: with a gator. He was out in a visible area

387
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: at that point in time. Now, I have no idea

388
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: why it is that a gator didn't just come up

389
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 1: and grab his body and haul him away, you know,

390
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: And let's you know, let's be real about this. He

391
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: had been out there for a while, so he would

392
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: he's going to be in at least probably a moderate

393
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: to advanced state of decomposition. But for some reason, his

394
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: body wasn't carted away by an alligator, and it wasn't

395
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: stowed somewhere so that they could come back and feast

396
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: on remains later. It was out there. It was out

397
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: there to the point where they could appreciate that they

398
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: had physical remains. They knew that they had a partial

399
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: skull at this point in time, and when I heard

400
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: partial skull, my immediate reaction to this was Okay, well,

401
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: one or two things has happened. Either he was struck

402
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: in the head by something like a heavy object and

403
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: they said skull, they didn't say head. So I knew

404
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: that there's probably no soft tissue, or this's gonna be

405
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 1: a gunshot one, because I do know this. I've I've

406
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: worked a lot of cases out in the woods where

407
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: people have self inflicted gunshot ones. The bodies go into

408
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: a skeletal or advanced state of decomposition, and the soft

409
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: tissue is the first thing to go. It's going to

410
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: to be gone, and so you'll just have partial bits

411
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: of that bony plate or those bony plates that are

412
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: left behind through the process of decomposition. And when his

413
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: body finally made it to the forensic anthropologist, let's keep

414
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: in mind the m turned his body over to the

415
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists, they had very limited bits of human remain

416
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: to work with. And I still, you know, I'm still

417
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: wondering if they were able to recover everything Jackie, because

418
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: if he's in the semi aquatic environment, he's down into

419
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: the muck. Okay, this kind of muddy, mushy bottom, and

420
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: it's it's really nasty. If you've never been out into

421
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: a swamp. There's a lot of debris that comes off

422
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: of trees. There's always a process and it's right in

423
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: your face. The swamp has a particular odor too, and

424
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: it's not a foul odor necessarily, but there's always this

425
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: kind of interesting odor of plant decay that's out there.

426
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: Because this is always happening. That's why everything's so green.

427
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: You know, when you go into a swamp, it's it's green.

428
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of vegetation, a lot in there. That's

429
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: why you get a lot of these animals that will

430
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: go into this environment and they'll they'll they'll have homes there.

431
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: You see raccoons on the side of these water on

432
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: sides of these waterways and they're living there in the

433
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: swamp and they're taking fish and crawfish and everything out

434
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: of the water. Possums live out there. So you've got

435
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: this big ecosystem that's out there, and eventually, eventually it's

436
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: going to consume everything. Body bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Jackie,

437
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, you know, as well as anybody

438
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: you've been at this for a while now, there will

439
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: always always be questioned about the death of Brian Laundry.

440
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: Of course there will be in the biggest one is

441
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: I think for most people, is will we ever recover

442
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: a weapon? Joe, Yeah, you know, I can't sit here

443
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: and actually say that they don't have a weapon. Remember,

444
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: it was never even confirmed until just a few days

445
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: ago that he had a weapon or even had access

446
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: to weapons, you know, Jackie. What has been revealed is

447
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: that the authorities recovered, and I say recovered, they were

448
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: actually surrendered by the family five to six weapons in

449
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: this home. And you know, we didn't know anything about

450
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: that in the news reports initially. But what we do

451
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: know is that one weapon is still unaccounted for. So

452
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: we can only assume that that is, in fact the

453
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: weapon that Laundry took into the swamp with him to

454
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: end his life with. And we know that he you know, look,

455
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: the authorities are saying now that this is a suicide,

456
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: This is a self inflicted gunshot one. And I think

457
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: the big question is is somebody going to walk up

458
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: on this weapon one day? Have they actually recovered it?

459
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: Remember that that mucky silty bottom that I was referring to, Uh,

460
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: did it swallow up this weapon? And is there any

461
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: chance that they can recover it. You know, as we

462
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, we're heading into winter now, and the one

463
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: thing about this time of year as opposed to the summertime,

464
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: we're going into kind of a dry season, so the

465
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: waters in that area will begin to recede a bit.

466
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: You're not going to be you know, there were there

467
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: were certain instances. I remember one of the local law

468
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: enforcement officers on one of the swamp buggies, Jack there

469
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: were certain certain times they were six seven feet deep

470
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: in water out there. You know, in these swamp buggies.

471
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: You're not going to have that right now. So now,

472
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: right now, as we're headed into the dry season, is

473
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: a time that the local authorities, along with the FBI

474
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: or whoever else has a vested investigative injury has a

475
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: vest did investigative interest in this case, are going to

476
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: need to go back out there with a crime scene team.

477
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: If they haven't recovered this weapon yet, they're going to

478
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: have to get multiple and I mean multiple metal detectors

479
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: on hand and sweep that area. And kind of the

480
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: way that they would do this is if you imagine

481
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: four or five personnel lined up side by side with

482
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: probably about three to four foot of space between each person.

483
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: They each have a metal detector and they walk forward,

484
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: if you will, covering this specific area where his body

485
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: was found, and they begin to sweep back and forth

486
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: with those metal detectors, they might get hit. You know.

487
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: One of the things that's kind of interesting is that

488
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: they specifically mentioned Jackie that the water had receded. Well,

489
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: what do we know when water receives If you've ever

490
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, if you've ever been out outside of your

491
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: home and there's been a huge rainfall that's taken place.

492
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: You know, in the South, we call them gully washers.

493
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: And if you as the water begins to recede and

494
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: it goes down into the sewage lines along street, it'll

495
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 1: begin to pull all kinds of debris with it. I

496
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: wonder if that weapon didn't kind of migrate down this area,

497
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it moved away from where they actually

498
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: found the body. And that's something they're going to have

499
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: to take into account here to try to determine if

500
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: that weapon is anywhere in that location. I can almost

501
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: assure you they're going to be out there looking for

502
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: it over these coming months, because now's the time to

503
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: do it. And you know, certainly we don't we don't

504
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: want some citizen, and trust me, there will be citizens

505
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: they go out there because of the notorious nature of

506
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: this location. Now, they're not going to want some private

507
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: citizen walking out there and maybe they've got a kid

508
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: with them and they pick up this weapon. For all

509
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: we know, this is a weapon that still contains a

510
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: live ammunition. Somebody could really get hurt. So if for

511
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: no other reason they want to recover it for that purpose,

512
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: you read my mind, Joe, because I was going to

513
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: ask you, can't they just go out there with the

514
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: metal detector and find it? Or if you've watched any

515
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: viral videos these days, you see people who go out

516
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: and do magnetic fishing. They take a really strong magnet,

517
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: put it on a really long rope and throw it

518
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: out in the water to see what they can find.

519
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: So I would have to imagine, like you said, that

520
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: the law enforcement is going to be on top of this. Yeah,

521
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: I know that they are, Jackie. And can you imagine

522
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: what horror would follow if someone got injured as a

523
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: result of them not recovering this weapon. There are a

524
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of people that have an interest in finding this weapon,

525
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: And for me, as a forensic scientist, yeah, I want

526
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: to know what type of weapon this is. I want

527
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: to know the specific caliber. I want to know if

528
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: they recovered a projectile, and that's something else that they

529
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: could be looking for. You know, with the metal detectors,

530
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: you know this whether it's a semi jacket or or

531
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: a jacketed ground that passed through his head and wound up,

532
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, lodged in a tree or on the ground somewhere,

533
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: that can happen. And also if it's a semi automatic weapon,

534
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: the little shell casing that comes out. Remember if this

535
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: is a semi automatic handgun or a rifle, that spent casing,

536
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: the spent brass as we call it, will be ejected

537
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: out into the air. So that's another metallic element that

538
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: you're looking for at the scene, and that's going to

539
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: have and on the base of those on the base

540
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: of the spent brass, it has a caliber stamp on it.

541
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: So let's just say, for instance, it's a nine millimeter.

542
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: If you look at the base of that spent casing,

543
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: it will be stamped with the number nine, and then

544
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: it'll have M M and then below it it'll have

545
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: a manufacturer's mark. Okay, so that'll be a tie back

546
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: and even if they don't recover the projectile. One of

547
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: the cool things about this, again, if this is a

548
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: semi automatic handgun, if they cover casing, they can actually

549
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: match up the casing marks or the extraction they're called

550
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: extraction marks on this weapon to the casing. You don't

551
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: necessarily have to have the projectile itself. You can do

552
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: a match where it's not as accurate, but you can

553
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: do a match to say, yeah, this weapon generated these

554
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: tiny little ejection marks on this projectile, therefore tying it

555
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: back to that And if they can show that that

556
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: weapon was owned by this family, then that should be

557
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: case closed. Even if a weapon is recovered Joe, unless

558
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: there is a visible serial number that can be tied

559
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: back to the family. Given the damage on the skull,

560
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: are they actually, if they don't have a serial number,

561
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: going to be able to say definitively that this is

562
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: the weapon they killed Ryan Laundry. I think that it

563
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: is going to be within the realm of possibility that

564
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: they can say that, because the term that they're going

565
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: to use, they're not going to paint themselves into a corner,

566
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: either legally or forensically by saying with absolute certainty okay,

567
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: with absolute certainty. The term that we use in forensic science,

568
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: and Nancy can address this is when we're in court,

569
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: we say reasonable certainty. Okay, we say within a reasonable

570
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: a reasonable amount of certain scientific certainty here, and that's

571
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: what we're looking at because you have to take the

572
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: circumstances in total. Here. It's you might not get a

573
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 1: specific physical match, but is the wound that you're seeing

574
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: generated on what's left of this skull consistent consistent with

575
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,479
Speaker 1: the weapon that they might recover it the scene? Could

576
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: this weapon generate this injury that might be the best

577
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: that it's ever going to get. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

578
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: and this is body backs